Military Review

Capture of Kiev. War of Pagan Rus with Christian Rus

121

War of the Rus with the Rus



It is worth remembering that now we know for sure that there were no "Mongols from Mongolia" in Russia ("The Mystery of the Russian Horde and Great Tartary"; "The myth of the Tatar-Mongol yoke").

Basically, Christian Rus (while maintaining dual faith and Russian paganism on the outskirts, for example, in the Novgorod region and villages), European Rus, came to Rus clans (hordes) of the Rus of the Scythian-Siberian world, which from ancient times stretched from the Northern Black Sea region to Altai and Sayan Mountains (including Mongolia), to the borders of China.

The Rus of this world (they are known by many names - Hyperboreans, Aryans, Scythians, Sarmatians, Huns, Dinlins, etc.) were Caucasians, Rus armies, pagans, “filthy”, lived in a tribal system, in contrast to the more “civilized »Christian Rus. It was Pagan Rus, Asiatic Rus, direct heirs of the northern tradition of Great Scythia, as well as the Russian-Rus of Ryazan, Moscow and Kiev.

It is much later that the southern and eastern clans (hordes) of the Rus will be Islamized and will be assimilated by the Turkic, Mongoloid and Iranian peoples of Asia. At the same time, they will pass on to them part of their traditions. They will remain in the epics, legends and tales of many Asian peoples as ancient ancestors, giants with blond hair and eyes.

This should not be surprising. Mongoloid characters are dominant. The Russians were not racists in the modern sense of the word. Other people were not considered "second class" as the future European "discoverers".

Mixed marriages prevailed, as the soldiers left without families, wives were taken to new lands. Therefore, thousands of Rus in China after two or three generations became "true Chinese". A similar picture can be seen in the relatively recent past.

After the Civil War in Russia, many thousands of White Guards, members of their families, just people who fled from the fighting and devastation fled to the Celestial Empire. Harbin was then a real Russian city. But already their children and grandchildren became Chinese. Although if Russians lived in an isolated community, observing their traditions and preserving the language (like Muslims, Arabs, Asians in today's Europe or the United States), then now China would have a multi-million Russian community. But she's not there.

But in the XIII century, it was the Rus who came to Ryazan, Vladimir-Suzdal, Chernigov, Kiev and Galitskaya Rus. And we know that the fiercest battles are internecine when a brother stands up against a brother.

How discord is now being kindled between the Russians of Donbass and the Russians of the Kiev region (the civil war in Little Russia). How the Russians fought in the Civil War a hundred years ago. How the Russians of Moscow and Tver, the Russians of the Grand Duchy of Moscow and Lithuanian Rus fought in the Middle Ages. How the sons of Svyatoslav Igorevich, then Vladimir Svyatoslavich, were at enmity with each other.

However, every cloud has a silver lining. The invasion of the Russian Horde (Rod) eventually turned Russia into a huge Eurasian empire. During the time of Ivan the Terrible, Russia united the European and Asian parts of the northern (Eurasian) civilization.


Source of the map: V.V. Kargalov. Mongol-Tatar invasion of Russia: XIII century.

Fierce battle at Chernigov


After the defeat of Pereyaslavl (“How Pereyaslavl Russky died. On the question of the "Tatar-Mongol horde") in March 1239, the Horde set their sights on Chernigov. It was a strong fortress on the borders of the Polovtsian steppe, which more than once fought back the steppe inhabitants.

It was quite logical from a military point of view to devastate the Chernigov-Seversk land. In order to secure their flank for the future great march to South Russia and further to Western Europe. Northeastern Russia, except for Novgorod, had already been defeated. Winter campaigns in 1239 eliminated the last recalcitrant lands - Murom, Mordovians, cities on the Lower Klyazma.

Also, the Horde Rus completely secured their southern flank - they suppressed the resistance of the Alans and Polovtsians. Those of the Polovtsians who refused to submit to the Horde (Rod) fled to the Transcaucasus, Hungary, and Bulgaria. Part - to Russia, strengthening the Russian squads.

But the bulk of ordinary Polovtsians (mostly noble people fled with their squads and families) joined the Horde. Fortunately, there were no special differences between the "Mongol" Rus and the Cuman Rus. They were representatives of a single spiritual and material culture of Great Scythia.

In particular, in anthropological terms, the Polovtsians were typical Rus-Russians - fair-haired (blond and red) and light-eyed. The invention of their Mongoloid features is a later myth created with the aim of distorting and destroying the true stories Rus-Russia.

Chernigov was the capital of a large, rich and populous principality. Severskaya Rus was famous for its military traditions. The city was large and well fortified. On the high bank of the Desna there was a Detinets (Kremlin), covered from the east by the Strizhen River. Around Detinets there was a "roundabout city", fortified by a rampart. Another rampart encircled a vast "suburb".

Chernigov was one of the largest cities in Russia. In the fall of 1239, the Horde captured the eastern suburbs of Chernigov and made their way to the city itself through dense forests. They brought powerful siege engines to the city. The owner of the city was Prince Mikhail Vsevolodovich of Chernigov. But at that time he occupied the Kiev grand-ducal table and, apparently, was absent. The Novgorod-Seversky prince Mstislav Glebovich, cousin of Mikhail Chernigovsky, came to the aid of the city. He occupied the second oldest table in the Chernigov-Seversk land.

The chronicle reports that Prince Mstislav led a large army. Obviously, he brought in many younger princes with their squads. He gathered the main forces of the Chernigov land and dared to give open battle to a strong enemy. Mstislav Glebovich's brother tried to push the enemy away from the capital city.

"A fierce battle was at Chernigov",

- says the Russian chronicle.

The besieged tried to help the regiments of Mstislav, fired at the enemy from the walls with stones from throwing guns. The army of Mstislav Glebovich suffered a heavy defeat. After a fierce battle

"Mstislav was defeated, and many of his troops were killed."

Mstislav himself with a small number of soldiers was able to cut through the ranks of the enemy and fled. Many princes of the Chernigov land laid down their heads in the battle.

On October 18, 1239, the Horde managed to break into the city engulfed in fire and staged a terrible pogrom. For several centuries Chernigov could not recover from this defeat.

Then the Batu Horde walked along the Desna and the Seim. Numerous towns on these rivers were burned. The southern and southeastern regions of the Chernigov land are devastated. At the same time, on the southern flank, the Horde broke into the Crimea, where the still unconquered Polovtsy were hiding. By the end of the year, the Horde occupied Surozh (now Sudak).

"And the Russian land of war was fulfilled"


At the beginning of 1240, the advanced forces of the Horde under the command of Mengu reached Kiev. The chronicler reports that the "Tatars" are located on the other side of the Dnieper, opposite the city. Seeing the hail, Mengu Khan

"I was surprised at its beauty and size"

sent ambassadors and offered to surrender Kiev voluntarily. However, he was refused and withdrew the troops. He did not have enough regiments to siege and storm such a large city.

They have not yet finished off the Polovtsians, they fought in the North Caucasus. In the spring of the same year, the rati Mengu and Guyuka launched an offensive to the south, along the western coast of the Caspian. The Horde took the "Iron Gate" - Derbent.

Another horde under the command of Batu himself fought again in the Volga Bulgaria. The local nobility rebelled. These hostilities delayed the large march westward until the fall of 1240.

There is evidence that the invasion to the west was undertaken by Batu with smaller forces than in Ryazan and Vladimir-Suzdal Russia. Part of the troops left the Polovtsian steppes and settled in their hordes.

However, there is no exact information. So, Russian chronicles report about a prisoner taken on a sortie named Tovrul. Who said that Kiev was besieged by Batu's troops. And also his older brother Orda, Baydar, Biryuy (Buri), Kadan, Bechak, Mengu, Guyuk. The famous commanders Subudey and Burunday were present.

The Horde did not go directly to Kiev. Forcing the deep Dnieper near the city was a dangerous business. In addition, it was necessary to deprive the "mother of Russian cities" of possible help in order to avoid a battle, as near Chernigov.

The Horde crossed the Dnieper south of the city, where the camps of the "black hoods" were located on the river Ros and the "heroic outposts" were located. It was the then border guard, the military class (Cossacks), covering Kiev from the steppes.

The squads of the "black hoods" and small Russian castles-fortresses on the Ros River were the first to meet the enemy. The Horde swept away the defensive line of the Kiev land. Archaeological excavations of the Poros fortress towns testify to the fierce fighting. Skulls and skeletons of fallen soldiers were found under the burnt ruins of walls and closely built dwellings, many remains weapons... Many valuable things and treasures were found under the ruins of houses. They did not have time to take them out and hide them well. And the enemies, apparently, did not delay to search the ashes.

The fortified line on the Lower Ros was broken. Small garrisons, located along the middle course of the river, were probably notified of the huge army of the enemy. And they managed to retreat to Kiev. Archaeological excavations in this area give a different picture than, for example, on Knyazha Gora or Maiden Mountain. Finds of dead people are rare, as are valuable property. That is, the bulk of the people with their luggage most likely managed to escape.


"In the same summer, the Tatars took Kiev and plundered St. Sophia"


Having overcome the fortified line on the Ros River, Batu's regiments moved along the right bank of the Dnieper to the north, towards Kiev. On the way, they smashed feudal castles and villages. Thus, the Soviet archaeologist V. Dovzhenok, who carried out research in the basins of the Ros and Rossava rivers, discovered 23 pre-Mongol settlements and settlements. They were all defeated and never recovered.

The fortresses that covered the capital from this direction perished: Vitichev, Vasilev, Belgorod. In November, the Horde came to Kiev and laid siege to it.

“Batu came to Kiev in a heavy force, with a great deal of his strength,” says the Galician Chronicle. - And the city was surrounded and surrounded by a Tatar force, and the city was in a great siege. And Batu stood by the city, and his soldiers surrounded the city, and it was impossible to hear a voice from the creak of his carts, from the roar of his many camels and from the neighing of his herds of horses. And the Russian land was fulfilled for warriors (warriors. - Author). "


The ancient capital of Russia had strong defenses. The defensive belt around Kiev was formed over the centuries, was completed and improved. From the east, south and west were the ramparts of the “city of Yaroslav”. They reached a thickness of 30 meters and a height of 12 meters. In terms of their power, these ramparts had no equal in the ancient Russian fortification.

The total length of the shafts of Yaroslavov Gorod exceeded three and a half kilometers. There was a moat under the ramparts, on the rampart there was a wooden wall with a gallery for soldiers and towers. To avoid arson, the logs were coated with clay and whitewashed with lime. The main fortress had three passage gates - Zolotye (the most powerful), Lyadsky and Zhidovsky (Lvovsky). The gate towers were made of stone.

The ramparts and walls of the ancient "city of Vladimir" were the second fortified line. In addition, inside the city there was a fortified “Yaroslav's yard”, stone cathedrals and churches. Podil (a trade and craft area on the banks of the Dnieper) had its own fortifications, but they were abandoned due to the lack of garrison forces.

In fact, the city could withstand a long siege if it had been prepared in advance for this and given a large garrison. But that did not happen.

The fact was that in Southern Russia, as in North-Eastern, the princes were more busy with strife. On the eve of Batu's attack on Southern Russia, the local princes did not manage to organize a defense, although they had before their eyes the sad experience of their neighbors, and received news of the defeat of the neighboring lands by the "nasty" ones.

Vladimir, Smolensk, Chernigov and Galich fought for the Kiev table. After the departure of Yaroslav Vsevolodovich (Prince of Novgorod) in 1238, Kiev was occupied by Mikhail Chernigovsky. After the fall of Chernigov, he fled "before the Tatars to the Ugry" (Hungary). I tried to conclude an alliance with the Hungarian king against the Horde, but without success. Europe had its own strife, and the threat of the Horde was still underestimated.

Then Kiev tried to capture one of the Smolensk princes - Rostislav Mstislavich. He was expelled from the city by a stronger prince - Daniel Galitsky. However, he was busy with quarrels in the Galicia-Volyn land and departed, leaving his thousand Dmitry in the city. Obviously, under his command there were several hundred professional vigilantes, the remnants of the defeated garrisons of fortresses on the Ros and several thousand militias. Part of the city's population left it, fled with property to the deep forests.

That is, there were not enough troops to defend such a large city. Kiev received no help from other principalities. Daniil Galitsky, who himself asked for help from Hungary, did not send reinforcements.


Fortifications of Ancient Kiev. Diorama. Source: National Museum of the History of Ukraine

"People from young to old were all killed with a sword"


The Horde surrounded the city. The main blow was directed from the southeast, to the Lyadsky Gate. Most of the "vices" - battering tools - were located here. Also here "wilds" - steep slopes of Kiev hills covered with dense forest approached the city itself.

The Horde had cut their way, made room for guns. The abundance of forest made it possible to fill up the ditches, to bring “signs” (embankment) to the ramparts and walls. Therefore, the siege dragged on.

After completing the preliminary preparations, the "nasty" began to systematically fire from the catapults.

"The vices that constantly beat day and night"

- says the chronicle. If the garrison had sufficient defensive strength, it could extend this period significantly, making sorties, setting up ambushes in the wilds, trashing siege engines.

Batu's warriors with the help of battering tools (vices) smashed a section of the wall. The rest of it was occupied by the Kiev defenders. There was a fierce battle:

"Tu beash see the scrap of spear and shields of skepticism" and "arrows darkened the light of the vanquished."

In this decisive battle, voivode Dmitr was wounded, and apparently, most of his squad fell. After a fierce battle, the Horde captured the rampart of the Yaroslav's City. However, the battle was so bloody that the Horde took a break:

"And the rider of that day and night."

We could not take the city on the move. At this time, the last defenders of Kiev fortified themselves in the area of ​​the "city of Vladimir". The next morning the battle resumed. The Kievites could no longer stop the enemy on the walls of the "city of Vladimir", the last line of defense fell.

The Horde broke through in the area of ​​the Sofia Gate (then they were called Batuykh). There, archaeologists have found many bones of the dead soldiers. One of the last battles took place in the area of ​​the Holy Mother of God, that is, near the most ancient church of the capital of Russia - the so-called Desyatinnaya. The stone church collapsed under the blows of "vices".

Thus, on December 6, 1240, after a nine-day siege, Kiev fell.

Voivode Dmitr will be taken prisoner. Batu will spare him out of respect for his bravery and will use him as a military adviser in his further march to the west.

The city was terribly devastated, most of the buildings were destroyed by fire. Most of the city's population was also killed, others were captured. All churches and monasteries were plundered and destroyed, including the famous Pechersk monastery.

The Horde, with the help of battering rams, destroyed the walls of the Kiev-Pechersky Monastery, killed many monks and lay people hiding here, and took others away. True, the monks managed to brick up the caves before the assault, and saved some of the relics. But life in the city and monastery froze for many years.

According to archaeologists, of the 40 monumental structures of ancient Kiev known to us, only a few survived in severely damaged form. Out of more than 8 thousand households, no more than 200 survived. And out of the 50 thousand population of the city, no more than 2 thousand people remained. In many areas, including the center of Kiev, life will be revived only in a few centuries.

Kiev will for a long time lose its significance as the most prominent political, spiritual and economic center of the Russian land.
Author:
Photos used:
https://ru.wikipedia.org/, журнал "Историк"
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  1. Machito
    Machito 16 December 2020 04: 43
    +25
    The Rus are farmers, the Horde are nomads. Even later, the Cossacks were farmers rather than horse breeders. So it's easier to pull an owl on a globe than to identify the Rus with the Horde.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. Alexander Suvorov
        Alexander Suvorov 16 December 2020 07: 19
        +40
        Alexander1971 (Alexander)
        the author ate henbane and defecated with another folk story
        On VO, especially in the "history" section, general obscurantism. Yesterday they published another opus of the Nazi bedding of Verkhoturov, today another nonsense of the followers of Fomenko and Nosovsky.

        VO administration, where are you going, do the moderators generally track the material, or are they satisfied with everything? The quality of material at VO has dropped significantly over the past five years. There are no serious authors now, and those who have fled long ago. Maybe you should already think about the quality of the content? Or do you care so much about your readers that you are ready to print frank slop for the sake of hype? Do you really need money so much ?!
        1. Woodman
          Woodman 16 December 2020 07: 51
          +21
          Quote: Alexander Suvorov
          Maybe you should already think about the quality of the content? Or do you give a damn about your readers so much that you are ready to print frank slop for the sake of hype? Do you really need money so much ?!

          They explained this situation to me like this:
          Quote: kalibr
          You do not understand that only clicks are needed from you. And your opinion is not needed by anyone, and me in the first place. ... It is profitable to write here and get clicks from people like you. Explained easily?

          PS By the way, today an article about ... cats was published on the VO from the author of this explanation.
          1. aleksejkabanets
            aleksejkabanets 16 December 2020 08: 40
            +14
            Quote: Lesovik
            They explained this situation to me like this:
            Quote: kalibr
            You do not understand that only clicks are needed from you. And your opinion is not needed by anyone, and me in the first place. ... It is profitable to write here and get clicks from people like you. Explained easily?
            PS By the way, today an article about ... cats was published on the VO from the author of this explanation.

            I saw your dispute. Rudeness, open cynicism and disrespect for the site users. What else can you say. By the way, if you explain how you insert quotes from old comments, I would be grateful.
          2. ee2100
            ee2100 16 December 2020 11: 01
            +8
            Sorry, 1000% agree! But there are 2 approaches. Samsonov threw in and went "into the fog", and Shpakovsky himself sits on the site "winding up" comments on his articles.
            I believe that the first option is more productive - it saves personal time.
            And I agree about the articles. They write about salads, sets and other crap, and people hawala
            1. andrew42
              andrew42 16 December 2020 13: 48
              -2
              Samsonov has been writing this for a long time, and there is a reasonable explanation for this: in any case, the "workers of the historical workshop" will subject his article to a complete obstruction, regardless of the degree of argumentation and references to OI bloopers. So, is there any point in throwing beads in front of a pack of crooks? Therefore, the article was not written, but shot down and thrown in. With a challenge to the "masters of the trilobites". Earlier, Alexander's articles were more restrained. This article is certainly not a historical work, but rather another declaration. For that it hits one point. As well as "Batu's vices" :) And the fact that there is a healthy grain in Samsonov's concept is obvious from the point of view of ethnogenesis. Only tribes that have not had time to disperse far and have not lost the complementarity of the value system can merge into a single people. Remnants of relics will never become a single nation, no matter how hard you force. The example of the "Caucasian reserve" is proof of this. You can also look from the other side: if we ABSTRACTly consider the history of relations between Poland and Russia / Russia (starting at least with the generally recognized kick of the Poles on the Bug to Yaroslav, later the Wise, and ending with today), then we can conclude that the Poles and Russians - these are the most evil irreconcilable, having nothing in common "Martians" and "Venusians". Fortunately, so far the direct ethnic relationship and similarity of the language, everyday customs of the provinces do not allow this to be done. But ... time is ticking. And 300 years later, the next masters of the victorious "official concept" will write about the war with the savage tribes of Muscovites who tormented God-saved Poland. However, in Europe they have been writing this since the time of Ivan the Terrible, about Muscovites frying prisoners on the engravings of Matthew of Paris. So this is done VERY quickly by historical standards. In this regard, I am very impressed by the position of Gumilyov, who in his works in every possible way warns against stringing naked artifacts and "decryptions" on the thread of historical reality, insists on examining events through language, cultural traditions, through understanding what those people lived and what they "breathed" through the prism of relationships and conflicts of interest with neighbors, through the landscape and climate, and so on. Unfortunately, OI adherents look at this approach with undisguised contempt, for they "already understand everything." And therefore, Samsonov's position is the same extreme as the position of the OI dogmas.
              1. ee2100
                ee2100 16 December 2020 14: 06
                +3
                Generally Samsonov recently "blabbed" yesterday an article about medicine squeezed. Horror! He pulls the facts, blinded and the article is ready. Wed @ whose which then rises to him only as a plus. He makes money here stupidly.
                I completely agree with you regarding the dogmas of the OI.
              2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                Kote Pan Kokhanka 16 December 2020 16: 17
                +6
                And the fact that there is a common grain in Samsonov's concept is obvious from the point of view of ethnogenesis. Only tribes that have not had time to disperse far and have not lost the complementarity of the value system can merge into a single people.

                Rave! Great Britain: Angles, Scots, Welsh, Irish and plus Normans !!!
                1. Sergej1972
                  Sergej1972 17 December 2020 09: 28
                  +1
                  Scots, Welsh, Irish are separate peoples. They are not English. They are only fellow citizens, with the exception of most of the Irish.
            2. kalibr
              kalibr 16 December 2020 18: 03
              +3
              Quote: ee2100
              he sits on the site "winding" comments on his articles.

              Do not give in ...
              1. ee2100
                ee2100 16 December 2020 19: 58
                +1
                Yes, I do not mind! Welcome.
        2. Doccor18
          Doccor18 16 December 2020 09: 52
          +13
          On VO, especially in the "history" section, general obscurantism. Yesterday they published another opus of the Nazi bedding of Verkhoturov, today another nonsense of the followers of Fomenko and Nosovsky.

          I am writing, writing and ... suddenly I notice that below it is already there, in slightly different words .. hi
          The crisis in the production of materials, the lack of authors ... The result is that the moderators pass THIS into the section - History.
          Can laughing I write about the history of "ancient Russians from Mars, the Paleolithic era" wassat ... I won't be surprised that it will pass ...
        3. Bashibuzuk1
          Bashibuzuk1 16 December 2020 18: 06
          +2
          The owner of the VO is an Israeli citizen. what else can you add to this?
        4. TAMBU
          TAMBU 17 December 2020 08: 48
          -1
          the last question, presumably rhetorical)
        5. Konstantin Shevchenko
          Konstantin Shevchenko 17 December 2020 11: 02
          -3
          More logical compared to the perverse story called TI or OI.
        6. Sergey79
          Sergey79 17 December 2020 18: 27
          -1
          Good day. I also disagree with the opinion and conclusions of the author. But, at the same time, I disagree in many respects with the conclusions of the "official history". "Every opinion has a place to be, but must be considered from a critical point of view."
        7. Sevastiec
          Sevastiec 20 December 2020 09: 21
          0
          I read the first phrase of the "historical" article:

          - "It is worth remembering that now we know for sure ..." and almost died laughing.
      2. Olgovich
        Olgovich 16 December 2020 08: 54
        +15
        Quote: Aleksandr1971
        another folk story

        If only this: there is ignorance and denial of the events that have just happened, documented and witnessed and undeniable by anyone:
        Harbin was then a real Russian city. But already their children and grandchildren have become Chinese.


        They did not become Chinese: the Russians of Harbin partly left for their homeland in the 1930s, partly went further - to Australia, the USA, partly to the USSR in 1945 and 1952.

        All. So the Russian Harbin did not become, the remaining several hundred people are nothing compared to the hundreds of thousands of 1922.
      3. Doctor
        Doctor 16 December 2020 10: 30
        +2
        the author gorged himself on henbane and defecated himself with another folk story. Prize of Igor Bunich protoukra to the studio!

        This is how to look.

        Did the Horde Rus take Kiev? They took it.
        And soon they will take it again. wink

        Asiatic Rus became Chinese? Become.
        And soon everyone will be. winked

        As the Great Rus Suvor-Khan said:
        We are Russians with us Tengri! laughing

        1. Alanart
          Alanart 17 December 2020 09: 15
          +2
          Why are you talking nonsense. Suvor Khan was from the Kereite tribe, he was a Christian. And he said: "We are Russians, Putin and Christ are with us. To Istanbul, rickets!" And then he found the nearest fence and crowed a rooster. And since it was extremely bad in the steppe with fences, he always carried with him a couple of field quick-assembly structures . Oh, young people, what you were taught only in school;)
    2. sniperino
      sniperino 16 December 2020 09: 20
      -1
      Quote: Bearded
      Rus - farmers
      Rus - as an ethnonym for historical science are unknown, contrary to the statement of Nestor, edited around 1118 under Prince Mstislav Vladimirovich. Probably, this is a political self-name, designed to counteract the centrifugal clan-tribal consciousness and unite different tribes into one state without the subordination of all to any one historically active clan-tribe.
    3. Bar1
      Bar1 16 December 2020 09: 23
      -7
      The reason for these civil wars must be called clearly, because Western Russia, Galicia became traitors, renegades, Uniates, and the Horde troops punished those who departed from the faith of their fathers: all these burnings in the excavations of cities would look logical.
      Concerning Kiev. This city does not have a single building even from the 17th century. The famous St. Sophia Cathedral is from the 17th-18th centuries: baroque style. There is no fortress / Kremlin / Detinets, although ALL Russian cities have a Kremlin, even the destroyed Veliky Novgorod / Yaroslavl has old towers without walls.
      There is an opinion that Kiev is a city on the Danube-Danube Rus, and then when the Christians prevailed over the old faith, the city was transferred to the Dnieper, on paper, of course. Therefore, even in the 19th century, Kiev was a small town in Ingushetia.
      Further, it becomes impossible to study history, tearing it away from the history of Danube and Varangian / German Rus'. There are such studies, it is necessary to combine the studies of the Templars, Cathars, Varangians, Slavs, Ushkuyniks, so that world history looks whole, without failures and "dark ages" in which Scythians, Alans, Huns, Goths, Mongols, and where then disappeared from nowhere are drowning.
    4. antivirus
      antivirus 18 December 2020 08: 48
      0
      light-brown-tourist (as well as the Rus-Horde) are also nomads.
      if science does not go to Samsonov, then he creates a new historical science
  2. Far B
    Far B 16 December 2020 05: 06
    +19
    I read the title. I thought that the author was Samsonov. I scrolled down the article. It turned out that the author is Samsonov. Yes, I, damn it, just some grandfather Wang!
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 16 December 2020 05: 53
      +16
      It is worth remembering that now we know for sure that there were no "Mongols from Mongolia" in Russia, [

      Can I go to Nastordamus's aunt !!! laughing
      Personally, I’m just wondering if the mentioned “We know for sure” is who? repeat
      I personally saw the Mongols "in Mother Russia". In 2014 I even gave them a course of lectures !!! Otherwise, everything is from the evil one, or from unwillingness to see the obvious, for the sake of a beautiful wrapper (version).
      Alas, the line (this cannot be called a theory) developed by the respected Author has long-lasting disastrous consequences that undermine the foundations of not even science, but the state as a whole. Formation of an ephemeral "castle" of super-duper-Slavs-Aryans is not even a chauvinistic utopian idea - it is a soap bubble that can be destroyed without getting up from your chair!
      A death sentence for the entire version of the Horde-Slavic world! A question for the adepts? Name at least one word of Slavic origin that is directly related to life in the steppe !!!
      All the good days!
      1. parusnik
        parusnik 16 December 2020 07: 36
        +7
        Vlad, most importantly, the "Sabbath" has begun.! hi
      2. Akuzenka
        Akuzenka 16 December 2020 11: 51
        +6
        Therefore, the disadvantages of the articles were canceled.
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 16 December 2020 16: 12
          +5
          Quote: parusnik
          Vlad, most importantly, the "Sabbath" has begun.! hi

          Quote: AKuzenka
          Therefore, the disadvantages of the articles were canceled.

          I completely agree, reputation is nothing, the main number of "hamsters" who visited the branch, or rather their "counter"!
  3. bistrov.
    bistrov. 16 December 2020 05: 09
    +10
    So "Kiev" by 1130 ceased to be the capital of Russia, ie. became an ordinary appanage principality, and by 1240 he generally fell into a vassal relationship to Danila Galitsky, who gave him to be torn apart by the Tatar-Mongols. After that, for a long time it was a small town, passing from hand to hand from Lithuanians to Poles, until Princess Sophia bought it out in 1686 for 146 thousand "efimks".
    Now the "independent" authorities located in the Russian city of Kiev are talking about some ancient "Ukrainian" state, which never existed from the word at all, and this territory was isolated from Russia only as a result of our Russian laxity and natural complacency.
    1. Simargl
      Simargl 16 December 2020 07: 07
      +7
      Quote: bistrov.
      So "Kiev" by 1130 ceased to be the capital of Russia
      In fact, the phrase "the capital of Russia" - it hurts the eye. He was the capital of the Kiev principality, Russia began to unite under one capital - the Moscow principality. And there was this the consequence invasions.
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 16 December 2020 16: 24
        +3
        Quote: Simargl
        Quote: bistrov.
        So "Kiev" by 1130 ceased to be the capital of Russia
        In fact, the phrase "the capital of Russia" - it hurts the eye. He was the capital of the Kiev principality, Russia began to unite under one capital - the Moscow principality. And there was this the consequence invasions.

        Resists! I agree! But before the formation of the Moscow principality, there were no five Great Principality for me, without taking into account the Galicia-Volyn principality and the Great Lithuanian-Russian principality: Smolensk, Ryazan, Vladimir, Tverskoe, etc.
  4. parusnik
    parusnik 16 December 2020 06: 44
    +11
    On this thread, in the History section, the Day of Historical Obscurantism. Happy Holidays! drinks laughing
    1. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 16 December 2020 09: 10
      +5
      On this thread, in the History section, the Day of Historical Obscurantism. Happy Holidays!

      Cheers, comrades! drinks laughing
      Colleagues, there is nothing to add. hi
      1. Akuzenka
        Akuzenka 16 December 2020 11: 52
        +3
        Yes, medicine is powerless for such authors.
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 16 December 2020 14: 27
          +5
          Yes, medicine is powerless for such authors.

          Alexander, he just skillfully makes clicks ... hi as they say - "throw on the fan".
  5. tasha
    tasha 16 December 2020 06: 47
    +12
    I - only for the story "Samsonovski" ...
    When somewhere on the outskirts of the Scythian-Siberian world (in Moscow or Yaroslavl) someone starts to grimace at the sight of my Asian face, I, as a descendant of the Rus assimilated by the Turks, will be able to reasonably prove to this bad man that he should not grimace, but prostrate ...
    Hehe ..

    I think it's time for the indigenous people of Siberia to start a new invasion of the European part of Russia. You have something wrong there, it's time to change ...
    1. GTYCBJYTH2021
      GTYCBJYTH2021 16 December 2020 07: 19
      -12%
      Quote: tasha
      I - only for the story "Samsonovski" ...
      When somewhere on the outskirts of the Scythian-Siberian world (in Moscow or Yaroslavl) someone starts to grimace at the sight of my Asian face, I, as a descendant of the Rus assimilated by the Turks, will be able to reasonably prove to this bad man that he should not grimace, but prostrate ...
      Hehe ..

      I think it's time for the indigenous people of Siberia to start a new invasion of the European part of Russia. You have something wrong there, it's time to change ...

      The Muscovites will crush us, the SIBIRIANS with the number and technology ....... Now, if gas and oil go directly to China, Japan, Korea, let the Muscovites heat themselves up with coal .... Donbass .... lol
      1. Serg65
        Serg65 16 December 2020 09: 18
        +4
        Quote: GTYCBJYTH2021
        us, SIBIRYAKOV.

        what Siberia has its own on the outskirts ????
        1. GTYCBJYTH2021
          GTYCBJYTH2021 16 December 2020 12: 16
          -7
          Quote: Serg65
          Quote: GTYCBJYTH2021
          us, SIBIRYAKOV.

          what Siberia has its own on the outskirts ????

          The Muscovites of SIBERIA do not have, everything is more theirs ...
    2. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 16 December 2020 09: 11
      +11
      I, as a descendant of the Rus assimilated by the Turks

      There were no Turks. Proven by Samsonov. There were Scythian-Rus, Chinese-Rus and other Rus. drinks And the Japanese-Rus created bushido and anime. laughing
      1. tasha
        tasha 16 December 2020 09: 20
        +12
        How were there no Turks? Now I quote you from the teachings: drinks
        "It is much later that the southern and eastern clans (hordes) of the Rus will be Islamized and will be assimilated by the Turkic, Mongoloid and Iranian peoples of Asia."
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 16 December 2020 09: 30
          +9
          "It is much later that the southern and eastern clans (hordes) of the Rus will be Islamized and will be assimilated by the Turkic, Mongoloid and Iranian peoples of Asia."

          Oh you .. how could I have missed this most important postulate! belay We ask forgiveness! wink drinks
          1. Akuzenka
            Akuzenka 16 December 2020 11: 54
            +5
            Maybe it was generally an excerpt from a fantastic pseudo-historical novel ?! And you immediately scoff. Let him write them.
            1. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 16 December 2020 15: 49
              +2
              Maybe it was generally an excerpt from a fantastic pseudo-historical novel ?! And you immediately scoff. Let him write them.

              I do not scoff - I still suggest ideas to him! wink drinks
              1. Akuzenka
                Akuzenka 17 December 2020 09: 55
                0
                Then demand a part of the fee from him! Why give him ideas for free? You look and go to the co-authors. Just don't be bronze!
        2. Serg65
          Serg65 16 December 2020 12: 24
          +4
          Quote: tasha
          the southern and eastern clans (hordes) of the Rus will be assimilated by the Turkic, Mongoloid and Iranian peoples of Asia

          what If only Rus lived in Eurasia, then where did the Turks, Mongols, and God forbid, Iranians come from?
      2. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 16 December 2020 17: 35
        +8
        But all the Rus you listed at some point in history quarreled
        with the Anglo-Rus for the fact that they offended
        Negro-Rus and Indian-Rus. am
        And power in the world under the guise of a secret government of Jewish-Rus. smile
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 17 December 2020 09: 20
          +2
          And power in the world under the guise of a secret government of Jewish-Rus.

          Yes! Our people are everywhere! wink drinks
    3. bistrov.
      bistrov. 16 December 2020 11: 38
      +1
      Quote: tasha
      indigenous people of Siberia

      Are you a direct descendant of Khan Kuchum? I sympathize with you ...., hehe ...
      1. tasha
        tasha 16 December 2020 11: 46
        +4
        Kuchum? Heh, take it too small ... winked
      2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 16 December 2020 16: 28
        +5
        Quote: bistrov.
        Quote: tasha
        indigenous people of Siberia

        Are you a direct descendant of Khan Kuchum? I sympathize with you ...., hehe ...

        Kuchum - Chingizid! It's not even shallow, I know only one person with such a pedigree !!! And it's not a straight line.
    4. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 16 December 2020 16: 25
      +4
      Quote: tasha
      I think it's time for the indigenous people of Siberia to start a new invasion of the European part of Russia. You have something wrong there, it's time to change ...


      My applause !!!
  6. GTYCBJYTH2021
    GTYCBJYTH2021 16 December 2020 07: 14
    -9
    And all sorts of fuinu are composed by historians, allegedly about ancient Russia, from their head, alcohol and other intoxicated, just to protect Russia ... Russia ..... fool
  7. Deniska999
    Deniska999 16 December 2020 08: 05
    +8
    The greater indignation is not so much the publication of such material, but the author's unwillingness to respond to readers, to enter into discussions with them. This means that Samsonov is a coward or realizes the insignificance of the articles he creates.
    1. Boris55
      Boris55 16 December 2020 08: 39
      -13%
      Quote: Deniska999
      The greater indignation is not so much the publication of such material, but the author's unwillingness to respond to readers, to enter into discussions with them.

      I'm not Samsonov, and yet let's talk.

      I will start with a well-known fact and described in many books and chronicles - the flood that occurred 7,5 - 8 years ago, as a result of a global war that set the tectonic plates of the Earth in motion. The survivors came to the need to conclude a peace agreement because to resist each other was nothing or anyone, known to us as: "Creation of the world in a star temple." From that moment on, a new chronology (Byzantine) began and today we have 7528 according to the Byzantine calendar.

      What then, what now were opposed by two points of view: how society should be arranged. Some are a man-to-man wolf. Others are man-to-man friend comrade and brother. The first three thousand years ago were given in the form of instructions for promoting their concept of life order the Bible and they called themselves Christians. The second - lived according to the laws of nature in line with God's providence.

      In the first century (from the birth of Christ) a representative of the Biblical concept, Andrew the First-Called, came to Russia and presented it to the Magi and rulers. Russia did not accept it, but it did not present its own either. As a result, the Biblical concept by the 10th century captured the minds of a significant part of the elite of Russia, which resulted in the opposition of concepts (beliefs). The war for faith, for the right to live as you want, is the most merciless.

      Samsonov described only one fragment of this confrontation. Today, this confrontation is expressed in the presence of both the ROC and the RPSTS (website - http://rpsc.ru/).
      1. Serg65
        Serg65 16 December 2020 09: 20
        +7
        Quote: Boris55
        I will begin with a well-known fact and described in many books and chronicles - the flood,

        Boris, oh better don't start ... the flood and the annals ... it's already funny laughing
        1. Boris55
          Boris55 16 December 2020 09: 22
          -6
          Quote: Serg65
          already funny

          Well, and talked ...
          1. Serg65
            Serg65 16 December 2020 09: 25
            +3
            Quote: Boris55
            Well, and talked ...

            About fantasy, I usually at night ... helps to fall asleep quickly, you know ...
          2. Akuzenka
            Akuzenka 16 December 2020 11: 57
            +2
            How?! Don't you know that there was a nuclear war at the beginning of the 19th century ?! And you are a flood. And in the middle of 18, too.
            1. Serg65
              Serg65 16 December 2020 13: 45
              +5
              Quote: AKuzenka
              Don't you know that there was a nuclear war at the beginning of the 19th century ?!

              what Yes, somewhere I heard about Miloradovich's shelling of the French with nuclear nuclei near Maloyaroslavets ... near Kudinovo one can still observe craters from atomic explosions ... wassat
        2. andrew42
          andrew42 16 December 2020 13: 25
          -3
          Yeah, and the old SUMMER reckoning was not there either. This was first thought by Peter the Great, then canceled. There was nothing. Professional historians they are like - "and instead of hands - scissors" :))
          1. Serg65
            Serg65 16 December 2020 13: 47
            +2
            Quote: andrew42
            А what Yeah, and the old SUMMER reckoning was not there either.

            what Does this somehow explain the existence of nuclear wars?
            1. andrew42
              andrew42 16 December 2020 13: 54
              -5
              This cannot explain the "presence" of nuclear wars. This only testifies to a gigantic layer of historical memory, firmly walled up from contemporaries.
              1. Serg65
                Serg65 16 December 2020 14: 10
                +6
                Quote: andrew42
                This only testifies to a gigantic layer of historical memory, firmly walled up from contemporaries.

                If it is firmly walled up, how did they know about it?
                Quote: andrew42
                firmly walled up from contemporaries

                what Have these demons walled up this layer all over the world?
                1. andrew42
                  andrew42 16 December 2020 14: 39
                  -5
                  You may be genuinely surprised, but I can count to 7528. Strange, right? And I also realize that before the time of some Sargon II, there really are no events. Any, even the most primitive logic leads to 2 conclusions: A) our ancestors had nothing to do (like today's bloggers) and some creative sold everyone a few obligatory thousand years, which must be rigorously included in the calculation of the time of human existence. B) Data on several thousand years are not available, despite the fact that these dates were calculated and tracked from century to century. You can, of course, pull everything on option (A), where the counting of the years was carried out by "fans of fantasy" in between plowing a wooden plow and "drinking honey with Drevlyans" on the trees, and continue the banter. Or you can take your little head in your hands and think about your attitude to your own roots.
                  1. Serg65
                    Serg65 16 December 2020 14: 46
                    +4
                    Quote: andrew42
                    reflect on your relationship to your own roots.

                    what And what did you, thinking, find out about the roots? I'm really interested!
      2. Deniska999
        Deniska999 16 December 2020 10: 44
        +7
        1. What makes you think that the flood was due to the war?
        2. Between whom and who was the war?
        3. What is the star temple and where was it?
        4. And what does Russia have to do with it?
        5. Name at least one ruler of Russia by name at the time of Andrew the First-Called.
        6. What kind of confrontation with the ROC can we talk about now? Judging by many people, questions of faith occupy them last.
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 16 December 2020 15: 54
          +7
          Name at least one ruler of Russia by name during the time of Andrew the First-Called.

          You will laugh. wink
          In Feodosia, they will definitely tell you that Andrew the First-Called was with them.
          But there is one point (much to the north) where they will also tell you that they did have it. wink
          This is the village of Gruzino, on the Volkhov, north of Novgorod. There really is such a legend, and there is even a memorial cross. yes Photos from the Internet.

          In general, there was the estate of Count Arakcheev - that very one. There was nothing left of it except the pedestal for the monument to Alexander I. And this is my photo, August 2018. The car on the left is also mine. laughing drinks
        2. Boris55
          Boris55 17 December 2020 08: 48
          -2
          Quote: Deniska999
          3. What is the star temple and where was it?

          Decree of Peter 1 on the celebration of the New Year. December 20, 7208 Peter I consolidated the deviation from the old chronology. According to the decree, a new chronology was introduced: from the Nativity of Christ, and not from the creation (conclusion) of the world in the year of the "Star Temple" (name of the year).

          “In the Rozryad and in all orders, in notes, notes, in letters and in all Our Great Sovereigns, decrees on all matters and in clerks and in squares in all fortresses and in towns Voevods in lists and in notes and in estimated and marked lists and in any orderly and worldly affairs of the summer, write and count the years of January from the 1st of 7208 and count this from the Nativity of the Lord God and Savior of our Jesus Christ in 1700, and a year later of Genvar from the 1st of the forthcoming 7209, write from the Nativity of Christ from the 1st 1701 and in the future, to repair according to the same, and from that new year of January, months and other months and dates to write next to January, without fail and in other years, counting the years from the Nativity of Christ according to the same. "
          Complete collection of laws of the Russian Empire since 1649. - Volume III (1689-1699). - SPb., 1830. - p. 680-681. - No. 1735).

          1. Deniska999
            Deniska999 17 December 2020 09: 13
            0
            There is no mention of the star temple in your quote. And I asked a very specific question. However, I did not expect to receive an intelligible answer.
            PS If tomorrow our president introduces the chronology from his first election, will this also be considered a theft of history?
            1. Boris55
              Boris55 17 December 2020 09: 22
              -4
              Quote: Deniska999
              There is no mention of the star temple in your quote

              The Star Temple is the name of the year. Internet to help you.
              1. Mikhail Ya2
                Mikhail Ya2 17 December 2020 18: 49
                -1
                So between whom was the agreement signed in the star temple, and what are the sources, in what language are they written?
                1. Boris55
                  Boris55 18 December 2020 09: 57
                  -2
                  Quote: Mikhail Ya2
                  So between whom was the contract signed in the star temple

                  Not in the Star Temple, as a structure, but in the year of the "Star Temple" - the name of the year.
                  1. Mikhail Ya2
                    Mikhail Ya2 18 December 2020 19: 46
                    0
                    Between whom and whom, and where exactly? In what sources is it written about?
  8. Jünger
    Jünger 16 December 2020 08: 23
    +4
    Oh, what a fascinating delirium in the morning smile
    1. bondrostov
      bondrostov 17 December 2020 22: 12
      +1
      This is some kind of hell. Star temple, flood, nuclear war before the flood ... IN IN ..
      PS Do you want to leave the number of orderlies here ?? wassat
  9. Kolin
    Kolin 16 December 2020 08: 40
    +5
    We're losing it! Urgent bucket enema of haloperidol in the studio!
  10. Stirbjorn
    Stirbjorn 16 December 2020 09: 30
    +7
    As I read the article, everyone thought that the author would say that the Black Sea was not dug by the ancient Ukrainians, but the ancient Rus! There is still where to turn around wassat
  11. 1970mk
    1970mk 16 December 2020 09: 44
    +4
    Samosonov, speaking a little historical TRUTH, as always, FANTASY gives out in full on the basis of his prophetic dreams))
  12. Ryaruav
    Ryaruav 16 December 2020 09: 51
    +4
    again this nonsense, how much can you?
  13. Operator
    Operator 16 December 2020 09: 57
    -3
    What science knows for sure is that the author of articles about the Mongol-Tatar "Rus" is himself a "Russian" Mongol-Tatar laughing
  14. BAI
    BAI 16 December 2020 10: 45
    +3
    we know for sure that there were no "Mongols from Mongolia" in Russia

    This group of authors "A. Samsonov" knows. Others may have a different opinion.
  15. Undecim
    Undecim 16 December 2020 10: 51
    +23

    Aviation of the Rus - Hyperboreans during the attack on Kiev. The drawing was stolen from the Vatican library.
    1. ee2100
      ee2100 16 December 2020 12: 32
      +3
      Thanks for the link to the book "letters of Novgorod and Pskov" I read with interest.
      But judging by the drawing in the Vatican, there is still a lot left am
    2. Fat
      Fat 16 December 2020 14: 35
      +6
      Aryan aviation patrols the airspace over Asgard Iriyskiy. You got it all mixed up, we took Kiev 80 thousand years later. repeat The signature of the Kh'ari runes clearly indicates this and, moreover, by the time of the storming of Kiev, garudas were already a rarity, Only Vishnu had a couple left. They used vimans, they made it possible to transport a larger number of troops along with horses and siege weapons. However, this is common knowledge laughing wassat
    3. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 16 December 2020 16: 26
      +2
      Aviation of the Rus - Hyperboreans during the attack on Kiev. The drawing was stolen from the Vatican library.

      I can still understand the expression "pedal horse" ... what And this is a "pedal goose", Viktor Nikolaevich? laughing
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 16 December 2020 16: 36
        +8
        No pedals! The apparatus is controlled by the power of thought! The stronger the thought, the greater the speed. Old Hyperborean technology. There is a description in the Vatican, but they cannot develop the idea of ​​the necessary power.
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 16 December 2020 16: 50
          +4
          There is a description in the Vatican, but they cannot develop the idea of ​​the necessary power.

          they have the wrong genetics! request nevertheless, not rusoarii!
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 16 December 2020 17: 00
            +8
            Everything is much simpler. There are not enough brains. Our folk historians would go there - they would have already entered orbit. Heliocentric.
            1. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 16 December 2020 17: 19
              +6
              Everything is much simpler. There are not enough brains. Our folk historians would go there - they would have already entered orbit. Heliocentric.

              Do you propose to send Mr. Samsonov to the Vatican? wink Can you imagine how he will rewrite the Gospel? fellow
              "The monks are crying, the monks are crying,
              They have lost love ... "
              ("Agatha Christie"). drinks
      2. Glory1974
        Glory1974 17 December 2020 09: 53
        +3
        I can still understand the expression "pedal horse" ... what And this is "pedal horse",

        So, jokingly, we came to the paradoxical conclusion: All modern technologies are displayed in ancient tales. For example, "Geese-Swans" are nothing more than unmanned aerial vehicles disguised as birds and used for reconnaissance and observation. The tale gives an example of combat use, when they watched Alenushka escaped from captivity with her brother Ivanushka.
        Chambers of hibernation or suspended animation, which are not yet available to us, are known in fairy tales as the "crystal coffin" where the princess lies. To awaken her, you need to perform certain actions (kiss).
        In general, you can list for a long time. The most famous stupa of Baba Yaga is an aircraft, our analogue is a jetpack. A hut on chicken legs, a walking base-shelter-smart home, is not yet in our technologies, but it is developing.
  16. Vladimir Vladimirovich S
    Vladimir Vladimirovich S 16 December 2020 11: 05
    +2
    The article is venegrete, and the Complete ... fool
  17. tv70
    tv70 16 December 2020 11: 49
    +4
    I wanted to drink vodka out of boredom, read it, neighing, I don't want to. The boredom is gone. I sit and think. And then blacks, or what? Either they muddy the waters in America. Hilarious article.
  18. iskanderzp
    iskanderzp 16 December 2020 13: 29
    +4
    "It is worth remembering that now we know for sure that there were no" Mongols from Mongolia "in Russia." Everything is clear, you can not read further ...)))
  19. kalibr
    kalibr 16 December 2020 13: 47
    +7
    It is worth remembering that now we know for sure that there were no "Mongols from Mongolia" in Russia ("The Mystery of the Russian Horde and Great Tartary"; "The Myth of the Tatar-Mongol yoke"). From this? THIS is not the source!
  20. andrew42
    andrew42 16 December 2020 14: 07
    -4
    You can laugh as much as you like about the ethnicity of the "Mongols", but ... Never in the history known to us, the steppe dwellers did not conduct full-scale military campaigns against the "country of cities", and did not take them in large numbers, and even in the "non-stop production" mode ... Neither before Batu, nor after Batu. Even "sedentary" empires cannot do this. Any large-scale military operations in the winter, in the forests, are possible only if there are long-term "concentration / supply bases" in the immediate vicinity of the target, and only on a "short arm." In winter, there could only be a "war of neighboring cities". But the "Mongols" burned everything behind them! - Here lies a blatant falsification.
    1. evgen1221
      evgen1221 16 December 2020 20: 57
      -1
      I support. There are many inconsistencies of the everyday level in the myth of the Mongolotatars and other hordes
    2. Konstantin Shevchenko
      Konstantin Shevchenko 17 December 2020 11: 44
      -3
      It's hard here to prove it. To the followers of Karamzin, I think that nomadic peoples do not need everything. Although they immediately write that the nomads in Siberia could not overcome the Cossack prison. Different levels of technology, but the so-called TI and OI themselves, cannot understand this. That's why historians have a hard time with mathematics. Therefore, history is political propaganda, in which logic does not play any role, it (logic) is superfluous.
  21. andrew42
    andrew42 16 December 2020 14: 49
    -6
    In the theme of the eternal dispute about the troops of Batukhan, these great "warriors of the winter forest", only an allegory from "Jack Sparrow" comes to mind: - Two turtles lassoed !? Where did you get the rope? - Eh..mm .. - Woven wool from the back!
  22. Looking for
    Looking for 16 December 2020 18: 57
    -1
    Not otherwise. How it was scuffed from one of the numerous Ukrainian pseudo-historical resources. Trying to impose world history on readers in Ukrainian. By the way, the use of the word Horde instead of Tartar came from the outskirts, according to modern trends. -Tatars are one of the "indigenous" peoples of Ukraine. then it is not kosher to associate them with some kind of violence in this area. And hundreds of thousands. millions of the then population of the area. killed and driven into slavery. So these were not Tatars, but Russians.
  23. evgen1221
    evgen1221 16 December 2020 20: 54
    -4
    China and China were completely different territories at that time. Hence the roots of the myth of the Tatar-Mongolia. Chin at that time is the modern territory of China.
    1. Glory1974
      Glory1974 17 December 2020 09: 55
      0
      China and China are completely different territories at that time

      In our time, these are also different territories. Kitay-gorod is in Moscow, but there is no China as such, there is China and its inhabitants Chin.
      1. evgen1221
        evgen1221 17 December 2020 10: 42
        +1
        So China at that time in the sense approached the outskirts - In the journey of Afanasy Nikitin, this is revealed to them. And he as a source directly and reveals it.
  24. Iskazi
    Iskazi 17 December 2020 02: 11
    0
    Yes, a lot of words about nothing, we can agree with the statement about the absence of Tatar-Mongolian, the term is clearly propagandistic and appeared in the 19th century, the planting of Christianity - more than likely, not everything is so simple with the baptism of Rus., But everything else ..., another Dolbolslavie and Rodnoverie ..., in a perverted form.
    1. mister-red
      mister-red 17 December 2020 18: 59
      +1
      one can agree with the statement about the absence of Tatar-Mongolian

      I wonder if China has such an idiotic understanding of history too? Genghis Khan first captured them, in Russia his descendants were already noted.
  25. set of sets
    set of sets 17 December 2020 08: 34
    +2
    “After the Civil War in Russia, many thousands of White Guards, their family members, just people who fled from the fighting and devastation fled to the Celestial Empire. Harbin was then a real Russian city. But already their children and grandchildren became Chinese. Although if Russians lived in an isolated community, observing their traditions and preserving the language (like Muslims, Arabs, Asians in today's Europe or the United States), then now China would have a multi-million Russian community. But she is not. ,,

    As I understand it, the vast majority of Russians moved from China to America and other countries. Therefore, there is no community there either. And not because it is not there because they have assimilated.
    The author studied this issue or did not read China further ?!)))
  26. Diviz
    Diviz 17 December 2020 14: 20
    -3
    In the 13th century, the Chingizids began to expand to the east as the Catholics wanted to subjugate the northern lands and not only but also the southern lands of Samarkand. From the 6th century to the 12th century, slowly but surely after being defeated by the Huns, the Catholics again subjugated the lands once captured by Alexander the Great.
    But there is one suggestion that the living people who were called the Great Moguls had the advantage and basis of the universe. If you look at the map, the Buddha Dalai Lama Yeusha Kaschey the immortal Bogotyr came out of these places. So far, this is just a fairy tale.
    In the 6th century, a battle took place near Belgrade of Kiev. Therefore, I think what happened in the 12th and 13th centuries was news to the people of that time.
  27. Sasha from Uralmash
    Sasha from Uralmash 17 December 2020 15: 00
    0
    Fu! Well done! Everything is confused, people, horses! Horde-Slavs-Rodimichi-Drevlyans! Krivichi-Lyutichi! Tribal tribes and Christians! YES!
  28. Vlad world
    Vlad world 17 December 2020 18: 46
    -1
    How tired of science fiction writers with their supermen, nomads. That the Mongols, then this is generally hell knows who. And they all refer to the Chronicle type.
    And in the annals, all the messages about the pogroms of the Tatars Word in Word repeat the previous messages about the pogroms. Capture of Kiev by the Tatars Word to Word capture of Kiev by the Pechenegs. And so in all seizures and pogroms.
    And in one chronicle the place on which the text about the pogrom was written was First cleaned very carefully and then the text about the pogrom was written.
    For an intelligent person, these data are enough, that the chronicles are lying about the pogroms of the Tatars during the so-called "conquest of Russia".
    Not a single doctor and candidate answered one simple question - what force forced the Hungarians and Russian Clerics to be in the headquarters of the Tatar emperor in 1216. How did they know that they should be there and participate in all the deeds of the Tatars.
    The first meeting on Kalka in 1223, the conquest of Hungary in 1242. Good luck.
  29. mister-red
    mister-red 17 December 2020 18: 55
    +1
    What was it?! I think that it is a shame for a serious publication to publish such heresy.
    You still publish Ukrainian historians.
  30. Molot1979
    Molot1979 18 December 2020 14: 38
    0
    Does VO continue the unkind tradition of pseudo-historical articles? For the information of the author, the lack of proof of the "Mongols" is obvious only to himself and his sect. It's not worth broadcasting for everyone.
  31. Vikking1966
    Vikking1966 24 December 2020 10: 23
    0
    To be honest, such opuses should be blacklisted and deleted as spam. Who proved what to whom? Where is the confirmation (artifact, documentary and others) that "... Mongols from Mongolia were not in Russia"? Who has proven this? Yesterday I dreamed that there were Marseans among us, or rather Scythian-Ruso-Marseans. And today I open my favorite portal and I see one of these on you !!! What am I to say now that you exist? Only I heard from a friend that in our psychiatrist there are also dinosaurs.
    And now according to the text of your nonsense, even though it is a useless undertaking.
    Let me ask you what happened to the pagans Igor and Svyatoslav who fought with the steppe? Or, according to your theory, is it the pagans of the Rus dealt with the pagans of the Scythian-Khazar-Pechenego-Polovtsian-Rus?
    I’ll ask a simpler question - Author, why don’t you like Russia (Rus) so much? You would give a detailed answer to this question. It would be more interesting and honest. Or are you trying to prove in this way that Siberia and the Far East are primordially Russian lands? This will not work, it has already been proven (by artifacts, documents, various instrumental methods) that the people who lived in Siberia and Altai are much older than the Europeans, which include the Slavs. Or do you, like the apologists of the theory of the ancient ukrov, think that they were protorussians? What are you really trying to prove by posting such nonsense?
    The questions are, of course, rhetorical, and I don't expect an answer from you. And I wrote all this only because I was already tired of reading all sorts of nonsense that they write about the history of our Country.

    PS I appeal to the moderators. The publication Voennoye Obozreniye has always been positioned as a military-patriotic one. And many people recommend your resource to the younger generation as a serious military-patriotic resource, where you can gain not only knowledge, but also basic life concepts of good and evil, learn the history of our country (adequate, real), learn something necessary and correct. But recently, materials similar to the one discussed here are increasingly appearing on your resource. This is not an alternative history, not an alternative theory, and not an alternative view of the events that have largely determined our history and modernity. And, believe me, the more such publications you have, the more your serious readers will leave your resource. Allowing to stir such libels on our history, you slide down to millions of resources called "yellow press". And serious people don't read that. Think about it.
  32. Seal
    Seal 25 December 2020 10: 40
    0
    Quote: Bearded
    Even later, the Cossacks were rather farmers,

    http://www.slavanthro.mybb3.ru/viewtopic.php?t=10890
    Nature has endowed the earth with their abundance. Rich Don (the Cossacks said they had a golden bottom),
    Forests, steppes were for them natural repositories of vital needs; in the former, fish, in the latter, beasts, birds, fruits were found and grew in such a multitude that their abundance became a proverb.
    Our ancestors used to say: "God fed us, brave fellows: like birds, we do not sow and do not collect grain in the granaries, but are always full."
    In the old days the Cossacks did not know arable farming, to which they did not begin to get used to it, as at the end of the XNUMXth century "

    и
    “The fugitives come to them on the Don, and on Khoper, and on the Bear incessantly ... and they (the Cossacks) brought all arable land and they (the Cossacks), having seen that this year during the congress of all the Cossacks of the great sovereigns for the annual salary, adopted a military sentence in all the townships, so that no one plowed bread and sowed anywhere, and if they plow, then beat to death and rob, and who for such disobedience will kill and rob whom, and not give court to that, and who wants plow, and those used to go to their former places, who lived where "
  33. Seal
    Seal 25 December 2020 10: 42
    0
    Quote: Vikking1966
    I’ll ask a simpler question - Author, why don’t you like Russia (Rus) so much?
    And why don't you like Russia (Rus)?
    After all, initially the "Tatar yoke" was an invention of Catholic Poles, who sought to present Poland as such a last outpost of European civilization in Eastern Europe. Behind which there are already semi-savage barbarians who have just emerged from under the "Tatar yoke". Then, when, in the course of the Napoleonic troops, the Europeans saw real Tatars in Europe and Paris and were surprised that these Tatars - exactly the same Europeans as themselves - European historians quickly began to transform the "Tatar yoke" first into the Tatar-Mongol yoke, then into "Mongol-Tatar", and now often even we ourselves are limited to one "Mongolian". And the Khalkha nation was appointed to the post of the Mongols. ..
    Why was the term "Mongols" chosen, more precisely "Mughals"? Most likely because at that time, in the late 18th and early 19th centuries, on everyone's lips in Europe were the richest Great Mughals who then ruled in India and considered themselves (like the Chinese) the rulers of Asia. And the Europeans knew that the Great Mongols were aliens in India. So they decided that the ancestors of the current Great Mughals by that time, before coming to India, could well have been the carriers of the yoke here, in Russia. And when the Europeans finally got to that part of the territory of China, which is now a sovereign country of Mongolia and began to ask the local Hulk about "their great ancestor Chinggis Khan" - to the disappointment of the Europeans, it turned out that the local Hulk had no idea of ​​any Genghis Khan ... Then the "white people" began to enlighten the "unreasonable hulk", beautifully telling what a great ancestor they had. hi
    The Hulk were certainly surprised, but the version with the great ancestor was accepted. Who doesn't want to have great ancestors? And now the Hulk already really consider themselves the descendants of "those Mongols" and can tell everything about Genghis Khan. The main thing is that more tourists come. Hulk Mongols from the Genghis Khan brand make a very nice gesheft hi
    Likewise, when the Swedes had to designate the rights to the "Kemsk volost" - the Swede Peter Petrei created a theory that once the Vikings, who are Swedes, were called to rule in Russia. Well, our liberals, (they were at all times) already looking to the West, enthusiastically picked up these theories that yes, here we are, sivolapy, we were under the yoke for 300 years, And before that we could not figure it out among ourselves - the Vikings had to from overseas to call to rule us. Ugh..
    It is also important that this pro-Western, liberalistic (by the way, adopted by the Soviet agitprop, apparently to justify the introduction of the teachings of Karl Marx and F. Engels), anti-popular and anti-Russian version of the allegedly former Tatar-Mongol yoke was designed to justify the possibility of external foreign control in Russia. Pro-Western liberals and Soviet propagandists of the yoke instilled and still instills in the people that they say there is nothing to worry about, they say in the history of Russia it was even worse - but after all, they survived. It was not for nothing that the Soviet government welcomed the Kolchak resident V. Yanchevetsky (Pseudonym - V. Yan), who in his artistic, but pseudo-historical books, really described with a highly artistic word “the conquest of Russia by the Mongols. And the current liberals foaming at the mouth are convincing us that they say "bastard authoritarian Russia" needs to live under the external control of the "democratic enlightened West" and that "Only under this external control of the West can we grow wiser."
    They inspire day and night that there is nothing to worry about in this (external control of the West), because we already had a period of external control, when the “Mongol-Tatars” allegedly conquered us. And even a "yoke" imposed. And we supposedly lived for 300 years under the “yoke” !! But then we wiser from the yoke, gathered our courage and strength, and threw off this “yoke”.
    So that you (the people), the main thing is not to worry, you people calmly accept the leadership of the enlightened civilized West. And there someday, under this sensitive guidance of the WEST, everything will return to normal. May be. Years in 200-300.
    No, gentlemen, liberals! Nothing will return to normal by itself if we ourselves do not take action now. Our land cannot be given to anyone. And it is all the more impossible to go under the external control of the West and s. In fact, our ancestors did not bow to any Tatar-Mongols and did not go under their "yoke". None of the birch bark letters ever contain the words: "Tatar", "Mongol", Mongol-Tatar ";" Tatar-Mongol ", Baskak", "Khan," Great Khan "," Horde "," yoke ", "Batu", etc. But the current liberals, relying on Karamzin, spit into the souls of our ancestors, who did not suspect that they were "under the yoke."
    1. Seal
      Seal 25 December 2020 10: 43
      0
      So.
      1) Russia survived in many real wars.
      2) Our ancestors were not under any “yoke”.
      3) The version that Russia was under the Tatar yoke (which in the 18-19 centuries was transformed first into the "Tatar-Mongolian", then into the "Mongol-Tatar", and now many use the term "Mongolian" yoke ") was thrown to us by Catholics , in retaliation for the fact that our ancestors did not recognize the authority of the Pope.
      4) And so that we better swallow this main stuff about the "300 Years Yoke", we wrapped it in a beautiful colorful wrapper from a number of "exploits". In this series and the feat of a specific "Evpatiya Kolovrat", and "Defense of Kozelsk".
      5) Unfortunately, singing these feats, we thereby extend and extend the life of this deceitful version that we were once allegedly conquered by the "Mongols" and that we were allegedly under their "300-year-old yoke."
      In our history, a huge number of real feats have been accomplished. We have more than enough to praise
      And in relation to, for example, Evpatiy Kolovrat or Kozelsk, you should always make a reference that this feat is akin to the exploits of Hercules or Theseus. That is, from the realm of heroic legends. Especially for young people. Otherwise, they can perceive the rotten idea thrown to us, once born in the Office of one of the popes, that our Motherland Russia can be captured by enemies for a while, but they say we will definitely get together and free ourselves, as if already once we succeeded under the "Mongol-Tatars". No, this liberalistic idea of ​​the possible seizure of the Motherland must be stifled at the root. No enemy can take over our homeland.
  34. Sterlyazhnikof
    Sterlyazhnikof 14 January 2021 19: 24
    0
    It's funny to call narrow-eyed people Rus. The descendants of the Cossacks in China are as Russian as I am a Negro.
  35. Ershov Victor
    Ershov Victor 29 January 2021 18: 52
    0
    The author, if you are dumb, then it is not necessary to shine it in front of an audience of people that the history of facts, documents, archaeological and historical studies has been studied, only suckers can pass off their speculations as "facts"! not even funny! you, you sucker, need to flush in the toilet, or ch..it on the street, when you meet, showing how to the very mrazota that can harm the reasonable !!! Remember, sucker, and Mongol Tatars were in Kiev and neighboring principalities (I hope you understand that "Kiev Rus" as a concept was first voiced only in the 19th century and then only to identify that period of Russia. For Rus! It is not cheap and scattered principalities, and these are the united principalities !!! so learn the history not from comics, which is imposed by the cattle by Soros and Co., but according to Facts and Reliable sources, and here, you have nothing to do, because you are either a loshara or a corrupt one, as the Great Victory Parade over fascism, prefers, due to innate feebleness, "parades" of mummers homo ... s !!!
  36. 1921
    1921 4 February 2021 15: 42
    0
    What incredibly fierce nonsense ...
  37. Lesnik982
    Lesnik982 6 February 2021 23: 08
    0
    The pagan Rus from Siberia attacked the Christian Rus, then they themselves were unmongolized, then the Christian Moscow Rus, 300 years later, themselves attacked the homogeneous pagan Rus in Siberia, Russified them again, and at the same time they were Christianized .. And then the Scandinavian pagan Rus, we will not forget, who, in turn, attacked the French and English catholicized Rus, while not forgetting to get involved in the affairs of the Russian exiled Rus. In short, it was hard for the Russians at a time when the Rus was sitting on the Rus and driving him with a fair hair.

    And yes: it is high time to take in the historian's sight the conquest of America by the pagan Rus through Alaska (which then became commonplace), and then their subjugation by the christian and well-spoken Russes led by Columbus (they still know that he was a Russian). I’m already silent about the African branch of the pagan Rus, which was carefully hushed up by official historians, which was subsequently unbroken.
  38. Dzungar
    Dzungar 21 February 2021 17: 09
    0
    Samsonov's nonsense ...? Exactly ....
  39. Cry
    Cry Yesterday, 16: 51
    0
    In addition, try to make the Pechenegs Rus and get a prize from Putin.