Military Review

Indian expert: Russian Su-57 has an advantage over J-20 fighter even with first stage engines

61

India again decided to discuss the question of how the country should be in a situation where there is still no clear plan for obtaining a fifth generation fighter in the coming years. The shortest period after which the Indian Air Force will be able to receive a 5th generation fighter is 12 years. During just such a period, India is going to develop and put into production its own combat aircraft as part of a hypothetical AMCA project. But, as noted by Indian experts, 12 years is not a realistic period. They predict that the AMCA will begin to enter the troops no earlier than 2035.


Indian critics of this approach to fleet renewal say the timing is unacceptable:

15 years of waiting for a fifth generation fighter at a time when the Chinese Air Force already has dozens of such fighters is an unacceptable option.

Against this background, an article by the columnist Mansidj Astkhany is published, who tries to compare the characteristics of the Russian Su-57 with the Chinese J-20.

Recall that earlier India withdrew from the agreement with Russia on the development of the FGFA fighter. Russia continued the project alone and eventually created the new generation Su-57 fighter.

Mansij Astkhan:

The only customer of the Su-57 today is the Russian Ministry of Defense. They ordered 76 of these aircraft until 2028. But this is for now

The aircraft, as noted, has a lot of problems, but what distinguishes it in an advantageous way is its incredible maneuverability, as well as the ability to carry a hypersonic missile weapon.

According to a military expert, the Chinese plane has an advantage in stealth, but there are still problems with its maneuverability.

In India, they note that, in fact, the Chinese J-20 also has problems with stealth. The Indian Air Force has already detected the J-20 at least twice using the radars of the fourth generation Su-30MKI aircraft.

In India:

The Su-57 has an advantage over the Chinese J-20 fighter, even if the aircraft is equipped with first stage engines. But already now Russia is preparing to equip the Su-57 with more powerful engines.

Thus, there are experts in India who openly make it clear to the authorities that they clearly made a mistake by withdrawing from the FGFA joint program with Russia.
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  1. tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 14 December 2020 19: 26
    +18
    What happened, the Indian viman is not working? bully
    1. maiman61
      maiman61 14 December 2020 19: 37
      +21
      They can't make their own tank, but then they swung at a fifth generation fighter! Optimists however! And as the tail is pressed, they will run screaming to Russia, sell it urgently for God's sake!
      1. tralflot1832
        tralflot1832 14 December 2020 19: 41
        +14
        But the name of the tank sounds like Arjun !!! And then songs with dances !! Arjun acha acha acha! wassat
        1. krot
          krot 14 December 2020 22: 44
          +10
          Indian expert: Russian Su-57 has an advantage over the J-20 fighter

          Soon an Indian expert will say that the Rafali of India are the best in the world and surpass all aircraft in the world ...
          1. Machito
            Machito 14 December 2020 23: 17
            +9
            Hindus, as always, are in their repertoire: eat a fish, sit on a stake, and do not choke on a bone.
          2. tralflot1832
            tralflot1832 15 December 2020 00: 05
            +1
            Depends on how many rupees will be given, and if the greens! drinks
      2. Arnaut
        Arnaut 14 December 2020 22: 34
        -28%
        Again hurray-patriotism.
        How long does Russia wear with the Aroma?
        How long has Russia worn with the Su-57?
        And where are they in the troops?
        But the Indians are worth poking with a stick.
        1. krot
          krot 14 December 2020 22: 45
          +16
          Again hurray-patriotism.
          How long does Russia wear with the Aroma?

          Again the Sumerian all-propals are here) Go to the sebe lard e. You have nothing but lard at all laughing And the lard is from Russia.
          1. Arnaut
            Arnaut 14 December 2020 23: 06
            -18%
            Salo from Russia ...
            Yes, you are a gourmet, my friend
          2. Vdi73
            Vdi73 15 December 2020 19: 49
            +3
            Pans are crushing their brains.
        2. Boris Chernikov
          Boris Chernikov 15 December 2020 11: 24
          +1
          Well, as if 10 years in the development of a modern tank is normal, the same amount of Americans fiddled with Abrams, and the Germans fiddled with the Leopard ... about the Su-57 ... but how much do you need? they have produced several hundred fighters and now they rivet packages of improvements and fixes every month, which makes the project even more expensive. Russia cannot afford to produce a bunch of fighters, and then invest their own cost in fixing errors
    2. Mountain shooter
      Mountain shooter 14 December 2020 20: 18
      +10
      Quote: tralflot1832
      What happened, the Indian viman is not working?

      They wanted, as usual, a rollback ... big ... Rosoboronexport did not understand ... Right away our fighter was "pecked", the program was curtailed ... But I will say so - not enough ourselves! laughing
      1. figwam
        figwam 14 December 2020 21: 14
        +11
        Yes, we need one ourselves.
      2. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 14 December 2020 22: 23
        -8
        On the contrary, the Russian side wanted a rollback. The Indians were told: "Give us 3 billion dollars. And how we will spend it is none of your business."
        Indians know very well (from their own internal experience) what money is spent on, for which there is no need to account. Rollbacks and cuts are the same problem for both countries
        1. Mountain shooter
          Mountain shooter 15 December 2020 00: 08
          +4
          Quote: voyaka uh
          On the contrary, the Russian side wanted a rollback. The Indians were told: "Give us $ 3 billion. And how we will spend it is none of your business."

          And how will you report spending in deeply classified development? I mean, run controllers? In all research institutes and design bureaus? Normal cinema, so ... The participation in the F-35 program of many participants from different countries led to the fact that they were all allowed to control - where did their billions go? But what is proper for Jupiter, not for a bull?
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 15 December 2020 00: 17
            -9
            Billions of participants in the F-35 program were divided into 600 aircraft produced.
            At three factories: in the States, Italy, Japan.
            Where would the Indian go? smile in a couple of prototypes?
        2. Boris Chernikov
          Boris Chernikov 15 December 2020 11: 26
          -2
          if it was about 3 billion and they would have been given a ready-made fighter, they would have given 5. It's another matter: they could not produce technologies on their part, and then hinted that it would be nice if Russia made them, and then I handed everything over to Russia, which ours did not go for
    3. cat Rusich
      cat Rusich 14 December 2020 20: 28
      +8
      Quote: tralflot1832
      What happened, the Indian viman is not working? bully

      Once upon a time, the sky of India was plied by vimanas ...
      viman
      vimana scheme
      But over the years, the secret of the vimans has been lost ... sad
      1. Machito
        Machito 14 December 2020 23: 19
        +2
        It looks like a pepelats. Where is the gravitap installed?
      2. kit88
        kit88 14 December 2020 23: 23
        +12
        Wai, what a familiar device!
        I saw him somewhere recently.
    4. RealPilot
      RealPilot 15 December 2020 19: 07
      +1
      During the refusal of a joint project with the American military-industrial complex, they were just actively beginning to be friends.

      And there are conditions of exclusivity! In all senses. Well, that is, the decision was political wink
    5. Alexander K_2
      Alexander K_2 17 December 2020 20: 36
      0
      I think in 3-5 years the Russian military-industrial complex will start buying Indian engines on the SU-57!
  2. The comment was deleted.
  3. svp67
    svp67 14 December 2020 19: 36
    +5
    Oh, these, I don't even know what to call them, have "seven Fridays a week"
    1. Aviator_
      Aviator_ 14 December 2020 19: 42
      +7
      Oh, these, I don't even know what to call them, have "seven Fridays a week"

      They are gypsies, no one else. Once every 5 years, they send us projects of aerodynamic installations, and in the TZ they write all the best in the world at the moment, and then they blow off and disappear for the next five-year period.
  4. Guru
    Guru 14 December 2020 19: 39
    +7
    What happened, the Indian viman is not working?
    Maybe when Somewhere, and how Anything. lol
    If you decide to buy our SU-57, I don't think you should agree right away, otherwise they will start Whining again. That the engines are not the same, then the price is high, but for now, let Elbows bite
    1. sustav75
      sustav75 15 December 2020 05: 09
      -1
      The Indians are already negotiating a trial batch of F-35s for their Air Force. The tilt of India towards the United States is increasing; in the future, the Indians can become a weapon for the Americans against China.
  5. Herman 4223
    Herman 4223 14 December 2020 19: 42
    +7
    The soonest development in the troops, and the Indians will manage.
  6. Doccor18
    Doccor18 14 December 2020 19: 43
    +14
    They will buy first 50 Rafaley for 10 yards, then 50 F35 for the same, then ... 50 Su-57 ... fellow
    Then they will begin to fall ... Then they will begin to blame everyone ...
    Then they will stir up their own project of the 6th generation wassat
    This is India ...
  7. Thrifty
    Thrifty 14 December 2020 19: 48
    +24
    The Chinese J20, like the f35, are not aircraft of generation 5, these are aircraft of generation 4 +++, because the impossibility of the f35 to fly in non-afterburning supersonic, as well as for a long time in supersonic in general, and the Chinese lack of an engine that allows the aircraft to use it to the maximum, including the inability to fly also without afterburning on supersonic do not give reason to classify these aircraft as generation 5!
    1. My doctor
      My doctor 14 December 2020 20: 29
      -3
      Quote: Thrifty
      Chinese J20, as well as f35, are not aircraft of generation 5, these are aircraft of generation 4 +++, because the impossibility of f35 to fly on non-afterburning supersonic,

      With all due respect, a question arises. Where is it stated that a 5th generation aircraft should fly on "no afterburner supersonic"? And in general, who sets the criteria by which the aircraft belongs to any generation?
    2. Vladimir Koshevoi
      Vladimir Koshevoi 14 December 2020 21: 35
      0
      PokOleno, uncle ...
    3. sustav75
      sustav75 15 December 2020 05: 56
      -6
      600 F-35s and several dozen J-20s are already in combat formation! And your classification of these machines as 4 +++++++++++ (invented by our top managers for cutting funds) is simply ridiculous!
      1. Sergey74
        Sergey74 15 December 2020 11: 04
        -1
        The F-35 is really quite a lot produced, but obviously not 600. About 400 cars, if you count not only the United States, but also all countries that have been purchased.
        1. OgnennyiKotik
          OgnennyiKotik 15 December 2020 11: 15
          -1
          Quote: Sergey74
          The F-35 is really quite a lot released, but clearly not the 600.

          2 F595s were built on December 35.
  8. Runoway
    Runoway 14 December 2020 19: 54
    +14
    What is J20 ????? And how can it be better than the SU-57, a country with a century-old history of aircraft construction, a participant in many wars and conflicts, the same demonstration of the capabilities of the Aerospace Forces in Syria, note one against the coalition in fact.
    And J20 ...... a stupidly new glider on Russian export engines, without any demonstrations of capabilities, really aliexpress for clothes, expectation and reality
  9. yfast
    yfast 14 December 2020 20: 12
    +1
    Why Su-57 and not SU-36 or SU-51? Then the numbers won't be enough for a generation
    1. sustav75
      sustav75 15 December 2020 05: 58
      0
      The numbers are just enough for them! But combat units are zero!
  10. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 14 December 2020 20: 19
    +2
    12 years is cool .... even in the Russian Federation, if they decide to make 1 motor fighter, it's a good standard. But we already have a lot ...
  11. APASUS
    APASUS 14 December 2020 20: 28
    +5
    Why crush water in a mortar? India made a choice and was left without a 5th generation fighter. You could of course wait, but the enemy of Delhi already has the first machines, and India just does not have time to swing. Even the purchase from the United States will not fix the situation (if the Americans agree), there are a queue of years for 8 years in my opinion
    1. Boris Chernikov
      Boris Chernikov 15 December 2020 11: 29
      0
      yes, everything is simpler .. they are probably already quietly clarifying how much the Su-57EKI will cost (export commercial Indian) laughing
  12. razved
    razved 14 December 2020 20: 30
    +4
    Did the Indians have another insight?
  13. Lord of the Sith
    Lord of the Sith 14 December 2020 20: 49
    0
    Indian expert: Russian Su-57 has an advantage over J-20 fighter even with first stage engines


    Indian captain obvious))
    Russia has a powerful flight school.
  14. AML
    AML 14 December 2020 21: 06
    -1
    Quote: cat Rusich
    But over the years, the secret of the vimans has been lost ... sad

    There is a possibility that even if it actually worked and flew, it will not be able to rise now. The atmospheric pressure was higher.
  15. Petro_tut
    Petro_tut 14 December 2020 21: 36
    +2
    They will wait until ours roll it in combat units, then buy
  16. _Ugene_
    _Ugene_ 14 December 2020 22: 36
    -2
    but what sets it apart in an advantageous way is its incredible maneuverability, as well as the ability to carry hypersonic missile weapons
    it would have to be finished by stealth, because all the makings are there, with these forms it is absolutely possible to make stealth, but, as I understand it, we are not working in this direction, if they are so far behind that there is no point in trying, they really think that the advantages stealth is not for long and it makes no sense to invest, but maybe both
    1. Knell wardenheart
      Knell wardenheart 15 December 2020 01: 02
      0
      I suspect that it can and may be finished, only the plane will turn out to be "golden", even though now it is not very cheap. We had some problems in the industrial production of modern composites of the required quality, and possibly also technicality. The operating cost would also rise. So, apparently, they chose a certain compromise of moving the price into stealth. It is possible that this is not such a bad decision, given the incomparable size of our military base and the military base of the United States or China.
  17. Beringovsky
    Beringovsky 14 December 2020 22: 40
    +7
    Good morning!
    Aym is Mansid Astana! Zysys may name. Ai is a 28-year-old journalist and aspiring actor from Nu Delhi. Mine write weapons, geopolitics and various funny histories. Olso love the Liverpool Football Club and consider Caramelpopcorn the best snack!
    I am an expert, I give a tooth wassat
    1. _Ugene_
      _Ugene_ 14 December 2020 23: 05
      +4
      funny, but in fact there are too few real experts than to fill the media space? so they fill it with what they have, and such a filler> 90%
  18. Aleks2000
    Aleks2000 14 December 2020 23: 07
    -1
    Fi. Found someone to listen and write about
    Indian, Greek, Polish experts and various commentators of social networks are gaining weight on the internet.

    In fact, India has withdrawn from many projects. Their dancers simply cannot dance as much as our "joint" projects drag on))). On their own money. (((
    And specifically - when they tried to hand them SU 57 without a stage 1 engine, without a stealth coating for the cockpit, coating for engine nozzles and electronics for exchanging information on the battlefield (if we recall the date of failure).

    By the way - there is a video with super-maneuverability at the top. Do you think she will help him escape the rocket?
  19. silver_roman
    silver_roman 15 December 2020 00: 18
    +4
    Given the problems with the export of weapons in our country, if the Indians ask back, I am sure that they will be accepted, because alone they will not create a fifth generation fighter in 50 years. They have absolutely no aviation design school.
    1. Revolver
      Revolver 15 December 2020 06: 31
      +1
      Quote: silver_roman
      They have absolutely no aviation design school.

      Well, sort of like Tejas did. We started development in the 1970s, it seems like they have already started up in a small series, but it seems like they are still finishing it, they still can't bring it to mind. They meant their completely original dviglo to put, spent billions, and then bought from GE. In terms of performance characteristics, even on paper, Tejas is little better than the MIG-21, and if they had invested only a small share in the modernization of the MIG-21, they would have gotten a better car for a lot less.
      When the last time there was a showdown with the packs, they raised exactly that MIG-21. When the showdown with China began this year, the SU-30 was transferred there. But at the parades they demonstrate Tejas - they say we can, and also Rafale - what a cool thing they bought even in France itself!
      Just as they proudly ride the Arjuna at parades, and as they caught up with China, they threw the T-72 to the border.
      1. Boris Chernikov
        Boris Chernikov 15 December 2020 11: 30
        -1
        aha .. is that light fighter that costs like a su-34?
      2. silver_roman
        silver_roman 15 December 2020 17: 03
        +2
        Well, yeah, in principle, the 3rd generation glider was mastered. The engines failed. Just the hardest element in aircraft. I don't even want to talk about arjun at all. Trash. It stalls in the highlands, so the T-72 was sent. Essentially, India is a banana republic with nuclear weapons. Due to the huge amount of meat, they tried to pull them by the ears into the big game, because it is convenient to use such a horde. But for the rest, I don't even know what they did useful. I would thank for Sri Lanka, it does not belong to India anymore)))
  20. Knell wardenheart
    Knell wardenheart 15 December 2020 00: 54
    +4
    It should be borne in mind that they will not write good things about Chinese aircraft) and that there is a very strong Russian arms lobby there. And yes, they were greedy with the joint program, and now when Bramos is flying with might and main and they are modernizing it, they will probably bite their elbows, wondering how much their 5th generation will cost them entirely ..
    In general, by the way - do they need it? The Pakistani budget has never dreamed of modern armadas, but if they fight China, it will be on the defensive and on a well-known, limited front. In this situation, the Hindus would have had enough of a competent network centric between more or less modern ground-based air defense (which they can purchase from us) and a 4+ generation air component, more or less equal in number to the forces that China can deploy in the region. If the Hindus should invest in anything, it is the air-to-air "long arm". And their stealth is an unacceptable fat for them, poorly combined with the general state of the sun and the rate on defense.
  21. Lesorub
    Lesorub 15 December 2020 08: 05
    +3
    There are experts in India who openly make it clear to the authorities that they clearly made a mistake by withdrawing from the FGFA joint program with Russia.

    Against the backdrop of the growing power of China and the growth of the J 20 fleet, India will buy 5th generation aircraft (waiting for its own product without the proper technology is more like a utopian idea), but what they choose - SU 57 (which is more logical) or the Yankees will push through (lobby ) F35 - we'll see.
  22. UAZ 452
    UAZ 452 15 December 2020 10: 58
    0
    The aircraft, as noted, has many problems, but what sets it apart in an advantageous way is its incredible maneuverability, as well as the ability to carry hypersonic missile weapons.

    But purely theoretically: is it possible to make a maneuverable aircraft with maneuverability superior to that of a rocket? Even if we forget that a larger and more complex structure will have a lower structural strength limit, then is there any point in being able to make maneuvers as a result of which the pilot will need to be scraped off the cockpit walls?
    1. _Ugene_
      _Ugene_ 15 December 2020 11: 40
      +2
      And purely theoretically: is it possible to make a manned aircraft with maneuverability superior to that of a rocket?
      of course you can, but only unmanned, man is the weak link here
      and when they do, they will immediately begin to make missiles with an even greater overload limit
    2. Mikhail3
      Mikhail3 15 December 2020 12: 21
      0
      You can try immersing the pilot in gel if you really need a manned flight.
  23. Diviz
    Diviz 15 December 2020 12: 07
    0
    Vimans were made by the Great Mughals who in the 19th century moved to Tsarist Russia - that's a tough thing!
  24. Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 15 December 2020 12: 19
    0
    We're fucking in talks to buy the Su 57 by Pakistan, I hope?
  25. Valeriy 1979
    Valeriy 1979 16 December 2020 15: 23
    0
    Only the train had already left, and you did not even have time to jump into the last carriage.