Military Review

Greek press: Turkish engineers tried to reprogram the S-400 air defense system "friend or foe"

99

SAM S-400 on the streets of Sinop



A material appeared in the Greek press, in which the editorial staff talks about how Turkey conducted tests of the Russian S-400 anti-aircraft missile system. We are talking about the tests of the S-400 "Triumph", which took place not so long ago in the Sinop region, on the Black Sea coast of Turkey. Even during those test firings in Greece, they closely followed the actions of the Turkish NATO partner, stating that Turkey now "can threaten the safety of flights in the Eastern Mediterranean."

Now the Greek newspaper Pentapostagma claims that Turkish military engineers "wanted to reprogram the" friend or foe "system of the air defense systems purchased from Russia." There is no confirmation of these statements, but there is another statement - already that "in Moscow such Turkish attempts have caused an extremely negative reaction."

It is stated that Turkish engineers "tried to hack the electronic brains of the S-400 complexes to make them more relevant for their own use." The Greek publication claims that Ankara is trying to achieve "an increase in the functionality of the S-400 air defense system, since the Turks are not satisfied with the Russian export version with certain restrictions."

It is quite possible that the S-400 air defense systems delivered to Turkey really differ from those similar complexes that are in service with the RF Armed Forces. However, statements about attempts to “reprogram the“ friend or foe ”system without providing specific facts look more like another attempt on the part of Greece to draw attention to Ankara's purchase of arms from Russia and, if possible, try to prevent the strengthening of Turkey's military potential. In Greece, the growing Turkish military power is clearly viewed as a threat, although both countries are de jure NATO allies.
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  2. Doccor18
    Doccor18 13 December 2020 15: 25
    +4
    ... to try to prevent the strengthening of Turkey's military capabilities.

    Someone, but Greece cannot do it ...
    1. Tatyana
      Tatyana 13 December 2020 15: 42
      +10
      the Greek newspaper Pentapostagma claims that Turkish military engineers "wanted to reprogram the" friend or foe "system of the air defense systems purchased from Russia".
      that Turkish engineers "tried to hack the electronic brains of the S-400 complexes to make them more relevant for their own use."
      that Ankara is trying to achieve "an increase in the functionality of the S-400 air defense system, since the Turks are not satisfied with the Russian export version with certain restrictions."

      I do not see anything unnatural in these attempts by Turkey. On the contrary, why shouldn't the Turks do this and then pass them off as their Turkish modification as already for their products. After all, China also quite often sinned in its know-how, moving in a semi-its own way.

      Therefore, it is not at all necessary that the Greeks are lying about Turkey in relation to the S-400 air defense systems supplied to it by Russia? They may not lie, but speak the truth.
      1. Doccor18
        Doccor18 13 December 2020 15: 49
        +4
        They may not lie, but speak the truth.

        Well, what does it fundamentally change?
        Shout for shout ...
      2. Toucan
        Toucan 13 December 2020 16: 37
        +2
        Not so long ago on VO there was an article on this topic.
        Delivery of Russian S-400 air defense systems to Turkey and the possible consequences of this step
        https://topwar.ru/166415-postavka-rossijskih-zrs-s-400-v-turciju-i-vozmozhnye-posledstvija-jetogo-shaga.html
        1. Tatyana
          Tatyana 13 December 2020 18: 16
          +6
          Quote: Tucan
          Not so long ago on VO there was an article on this topic.Delivery of Russian S-400 air defense systems to Turkey and the possible consequences of this step
          Yes, this is a great and great article! I will give a brief summary of its content.

          On December 27, 2017, the head of Rostec, Sergei Chemezov, announced that Turkey was acquiring from Russia four divisions of S-400 air defense missile systems worth $ 2,5 billion. At the same time, only 45% of the total contract value would be paid by Turkey in hard currency, and the rest will cover the loan allocated by Russia. In addition to providing a loan one of the conditions put forward by the Turkish side was the provision of detailed technical documentation, and assistance to Turkish companies in the development of the production of the S-400 elements of interest to them.
          The S-400 is currently the main air defense system in the RF Aerospace Forces, and we have nothing more advanced in our armament yet. The start of mass deliveries of S-350 to replace worn-out S-300PS is expected not earlier than in 2-3 years. The S-500 is designed to combat ballistic targets and to counter satellites in low orbits. Due to the very high cost of the S-500, it will be used only for the protection of especially important objects and in terms of the number of systems adopted in service, it is unlikely to compare with the S-400.
          The potential for improving the S-400 air defense system is far from being exhausted.
          The S-400 for Turkey really differ from the anti-aircraft systems in service with the Russian Aerospace Forces. But this does not mean that the export modification of the S-400 is, in terms of its main characteristics, inferior to the systems that are on alert in Russia.
          As for the compatibility of the S-400 air defense system with the automated control systems of the NATO air defense system in Europe MASE, it depends on the will of the NATO command and the ability of the Turks to finance this event. The joint NATO air defense system uses the state-owned Mk.
          Assurances that the supply of S-400 air defense systems to Turkey, which is part of NATO, cannot harm the defense capability of the Russian Federation, do not evoke understanding. The United States never missed an opportunity to familiarize itself in detail with Soviet and Russian-made air defense systems. So, at several American test ranges there are still operational radar stations that are part of the S-300PT / PS air defense system. A detailed study of the characteristics of the radars and the guidance station allowed American experts to create sufficiently effective jamming stations and develop optimal tactics for breaking through the air defense, which are based on the S-300 family systems.
          At the end of December 2019, the American media reported that Turkey was ready to provide S-400 air defense systems for US study, in exchange for defrosting the supply of F-35A fighters. It may happen that the damage to Russia's defense capability will turn out to be much higher than the benefits from the receipt of additional funds in the budget. History already knows cases when, due to the short-sightedness of politicians, secret models of equipment and weapons were at the disposal of Western partners, and Russian planes were shot down by anti-aircraft missiles produced in our country.
          The purchase by Turkey of the S-400 air defense system from the Russian Federation caused a crisis in the US-Turkish relations. But how long this effect will be. It is no secret that the actions of the Turkish President are often unpredictable, and in the past he took openly unfriendly steps towards our country. Erdogan fancies himself a new sultan, trying to return Turkey to its former status and the opportunity to speak on equal terms with the leading countries of the world.
          For more details see - https://topwar.ru/166415-postavka-rossijskih-zrs-s-400-v-turciju-i-vozmozhnye-posledstvija-jetogo-shaga.html [/quote
      3. venik
        venik 13 December 2020 17: 13
        +9
        Quote: Tatiana
        Therefore, it is not at all necessary that the Greeks are lying about Turkey in relation to the S-400 air defense systems supplied to it by Russia? They may not lie, but speak the truth.

        Quote: Tatiana
        the Greek newspaper Pentapostagma states that Turkish military engineers “wanted to reprogram the friend or foe system air defense systems purchased from Russia "

        ==========
        Have you ever wondered WHERE the Greeks know WHAT EXACTLY Turkish engineers tried to "hack or alter"? The Turks "whispered in their ear"? Or Greek intelligence (I wonder if they actually have it? lol ) - so powerful and omniscient? Or all the same information "OBS" ("One Grandma Said")? request
        1. Pavlos Melas
          Pavlos Melas 13 December 2020 18: 08
          +2
          Quote: venik
          Quote: Tatiana
          Therefore, it is not at all necessary that the Greeks are lying about Turkey in relation to the S-400 air defense systems supplied to it by Russia? They may not lie, but speak the truth.

          Quote: Tatiana
          the Greek newspaper Pentapostagma states that Turkish military engineers “wanted to reprogram the friend or foe system air defense systems purchased from Russia "

          ==========
          Have you ever wondered WHERE the Greeks know WHAT EXACTLY Turkish engineers tried to "hack or alter"? The Turks "whispered in their ear"? Or Greek intelligence (I wonder if they actually have it? lol ) - so powerful and omniscient? Or all the same information "OBS" ("One Grandma Said")? request

          You shouldn't be looking at Greece and the Greeks from a high point, it's another matter that I have already commented on the source of pandapostagmus in other articles, it is very cloudy. This is not a respected publication that one could say "Greek kaya press".
          1. venik
            venik 13 December 2020 19: 35
            +3
            Quote: Pavlos Melas
            it's another matter that I have already commented on the source of pendapostagmus in other articles, it is very cloudy. This is not a respected publication that one could say "Greek kaya press".

            ========
            So I - about the same! When a "journalist" issues such a "sensation" (and even received from a "sworn ally" (even by NAT!)), It immediately comes to mind: "....Daria Yakovlevna said that Anna Sergeevna learned from Polina Timofeevna that Svetlana Fyodorovna saw Tamara Ivanovna..... " fellow
          2. Petrik66
            Petrik66 14 December 2020 10: 41
            +3
            What publications can be considered authoritative now? An information war is going on, part of the general war of the consolidated West against us. The injection of information is carried out purposefully and always has a specific task. In this case - to discourage any desire to buy our air defense systems. Either they lost to the Turks everywhere, and with a devastating score, the Turks hacked c400, then they are ready to hand them over to the United States. Well, the Americans really do not want to lose such a money market.
            1. Pavlos Melas
              Pavlos Melas 14 December 2020 14: 19
              0
              An information war is going on, part of the general war of the consolidated West against us.

              Here is what kind of war is against you, if you are not broadcasting from the Turkish trench, of course. The yellow rag, attracting the attention of readers, gives out a "sensation", and unforgettable to blame the Turks. Greeks and Turks have always had a difficult relationship, so the negative pressures of the two countries towards their opponents should not surprise anyone.
        2. Aleksandr21
          Aleksandr21 13 December 2020 18: 27
          +6
          Quote: venik
          Or is Greek intelligence (I wonder if they actually have it?) - so powerful and omniscient? Or all the same information "OBS" ("One Grandma Said")?


          In general, Greece has intelligence "ΕΥΠ - National Intelligence Service", and given that the main enemy of Greece is Turkey, intelligence clearly works very closely in Turkey, given their "love" and struggle for resources, so your smiley here is clearly superfluous + in Turkey there are a lot of foreign intelligence services (from NATO countries including) and the transfer of information to Greece could well have been, even the same Americans may well share such information with the Greeks, and they will accordingly take it into account, so find fault with where the Greeks got it from information is not worth it, but the fact that the Turks wanted to reprogram the "friend or foe" system is expected and quite in their spirit, ie they bought the S-400 with the expectation of studying the technology and, if it turns out, then master and release their own products (clone / copies of the S-400 in the Turkish manner).
      4. Nyrobsky
        Nyrobsky 13 December 2020 17: 29
        +3
        Quote: Tatiana
        Therefore, it is not at all necessary that the Greeks are lying about Turkey in relation to the S-400 air defense systems supplied to it by Russia? They may not lie, but speak the truth.

        However, there is a possibility that they are lying. The fact is that Ankara expressed its intentions to carry out additional purchases of S-400s, which the Greeks naturally cannot like, and therefore their actions to discredit the buyer in the eyes of the supplier, in terms of fulfilling contractual obligations, is quite a logical move. It was, it was not, until they figure it out, and the sediment will already remain. winked
        1. Tatyana
          Tatyana 13 December 2020 19: 05
          +1
          Quote: Nyrobsky
          However, there is a possibility that they are lying. The fact is that Ankara expressed its intentions to carry out additional purchases of S-400s, which the Greeks naturally cannot like, and therefore their actions to discredit the buyer in the eyes of the supplier, in terms of fulfilling contractual obligations, is quite a logical move. It was, it was not, until they figure it out, and the sediment will already remain.
          Perhaps the way you say it. However, the problem is geopolitically seen even wider! Namely.

          After all, the purchase by Turkey of the S-400 air defense system from the Russian Federation really caused not only concern in Greece, a NATO member, and in other countries, but also caused a crisis in American-Turkish relations.
          At the same time, it turned out to be remarkable that at the end of December 2019, the American media already reported that Turkey was ready to provide S-400 air defense systems for US study, in exchange for unfreezing the supply of F-35A fighters.

          It turns out that on the one hand, due to Turkey's unique geographic location, the United States and the European NATO countries are vitally interested in keeping Ankara in their circle of influence.
          On the other hand, Erdogan himself imagines himself a new sultan, trying to return Turkey to its former status in the form of a neo-Ottoman Empire and the opportunity to speak on equal terms with the leading countries of the world.
          And in this regard, Erdogan is indeed unpredictable not only for Greece, but also for Russia.

          Modern Turkey is really now a powder keg, ready to blow up the world, if someone brings just a lighted match to it.
        2. cniza
          cniza 15 December 2020 17: 12
          +1
          Nobody canceled the information war ...
      5. SSR
        SSR 13 December 2020 21: 40
        +2
        Quote: Tatiana
        I do not see anything unnatural in these attempts by Turkey.

        It's just that "the strongest programmers of the Turks" sounds strong.
        Invincible also spoke showing a block with algorithms, they can copy anything and a block with a margin of 25, this is about the S-300.
        1. gsev
          gsev 14 December 2020 02: 44
          -3
          Quote: SSR
          It's just that "the strongest programmers of the Turks" sounds strong.

          What's so hard about programming? Knowing the physical principles of radar and having better access than Russia to modern microprocessors, signal converters and memory chips and translators, you can make more advanced electronics for the purchased S-300. The Turks were able to make programs for their drones with which they practically destroyed the Armenian army in a month. Invincible probably still used the memory on magnetic domains.
          1. Salty
            Salty 14 December 2020 02: 52
            +2
            Quote: gsev
            What's so hard about programming?

            That also ... sounds strong, believe me.

            Quote: gsev
            you can make more advanced electronics for the purchased S-300

            Uh-huh ... with about the same probability that a monkey, having a typewriter, will write "War and Peace". And in about the same time yes

            Quote: gsev
            The Turks were able to make programs for their drones

            Did the Turks really do them? Out of the blue, without a prototype? I do not believe (c).
            1. gsev
              gsev 14 December 2020 13: 45
              -1
              Quote: SaltY
              What's so hard about programming?

              That also ... sounds strong, believe me.

              In 1985, approximately 800 girls in Noginsk under the guidance of 2621 Moscow engineers programmed the electroautomatics of the MTs-6 machine with CNC AS-2 for about a year, 2 engineers checked the program for half a year and discovered errors for another 2 years. Now a similar task with the design of a schematic diagram, electrical installation and programming of electroautomatics in the presence of a programmable controller, a program editor for it and a CNC for such a machine would be done by one person in a month in 4. At one time, it was in Noginsk that the automation of the first missile defense was developed and their successes forced the United States go to the first treaty with the USSR on arms limitation. There was also developed electroautomatics and CNC on magnetic domains for EDM machines, which had exceptional reliability. Although an important condition must be observed - there must be continuity in production, that is, the programmer must deal only with machines and programs for them and not sell additional bed linen, batteries, tools, television consoles, design the automation of dispensers, security systems in the nuclear industry, water treatment plants ...
              1. Salty
                Salty 14 December 2020 15: 11
                -2
                Quote: gsev
                In 1985, the electroautomatics of the MTs-800 machine with CNC AS-2621 programmed ...

                ... with a clear understanding of what they program, all kinds of specifications and stuff ...

                For the S400, there is no such documentation (for the Turks) and cannot be. And programming a "black box" is orders of magnitude more difficult than the one given in your example.

                This is so, for a start, just wink
                1. gsev
                  gsev 14 December 2020 15: 21
                  -1
                  Quote: SaltY
                  And programming a "black box" is orders of magnitude more difficult than the one given in your example.

                  The principles of radar have been known since the 1930s. Probably a big problem is the creation of an antenna and a signal receiver, and not a processing algorithm. If you know the physics of the process, then there is no problem to build a mathematical model and write a program, and if you do not know, then it makes no sense to take on an incomprehensible problem.
                  1. Salty
                    Salty 14 December 2020 15: 52
                    -1
                    Quote: gsev
                    If you know the physics of the process, then there is no problem to build a mathematical model and write a program ...

                    ... and if you do not know the hardware that you are programming (and the Turks do not know it and cannot know it, see above), then ... see above, again.

                    In addition, the system "friend or foe", which was exactly what they tried, ahem ... to improve - no has nothing to do with "principles of radar" and other such things. From the word "absolutely" yes
                    1. gsev
                      gsev 15 December 2020 00: 15
                      0
                      Quote: SaltY
                      the system "friend or foe", which was exactly what they tried to, ahem ... improve - has nothing to do with "principles of radar" and other such things. From the word "absolutely"

                      And that now the Turkish S-300 systems will no longer be able to shoot at Russian, Syrian, Armenian, Egyptian planes and will only destroy NATO and Chinese? I think that the system of one's own alien was originally there to be Turkish and it should have been, and the Turks should be able to change it in the event of its opening by a potential enemy.
                      1. Salty
                        Salty 15 December 2020 02: 46
                        -3
                        Quote: gsev
                        And that now the Turkish S-300 systems will no longer be able to shoot at Russian, Syrian, Armenian, Egyptian planes and will only destroy NATO and Chinese?

                        I don’t know, this is for specialists in "friend or foe", I am not such.

                        I just doubted that everything is simple in reprogramming the "friend or foe" system (it was your statement), and tried to substantiate my doubts. Nothing more hi
                  2. nerovnayadoroga
                    nerovnayadoroga 14 December 2020 23: 04
                    0
                    And no one else can write something, write, but write, because everyone knows physics, by frequencies and transmissions, damn it is stupid, however, some Ukrainians and Jews are smart, but apparently there are not enough programs ...!?
                    1. gsev
                      gsev 15 December 2020 21: 41
                      0
                      Quote: nerovnayadoroga
                      , because everyone knows physics, in terms of frequencies and transmissions, damn stupid all however

                      Physics is normally known for the design of modern military equipment by a few tens of millions of people. But the Turks are able to find such in their people.
          2. SAG
            SAG 14 December 2020 06: 05
            +2

            What's so hard about programming? Knowing the physical principles of radar and having better access than Russia to modern microprocessors, signal converters and memory chips and translators, you can make more advanced electronics for the purchased S-300.

            That is, in your opinion, the Chinese do not have more advanced electronics and professional personnel like the Turks. They made a CLONE s-300, but compared to the original - it turned out to be a CLONE !!!
            1. gsev
              gsev 14 December 2020 15: 27
              -3
              Quote: SAG
              That is, in your opinion, the Chinese do not have more advanced electronics and professional personnel like the Turks. They made a CLONE s-300, but compared to the original - it turned out to be a CLONE !!!

              It seems that in Libya, Turkish drones inflicted considerable damage on Haftar's air defense, and Chinese drones inflicted a pro-Turkish proxy. That is, both the Turks and the Chinese create no less effective weapons than the Russians. Walk through the factories in Russia and see how many Chinese, Turkish, Ukrainian and Russian industrial electronics are there. In my opinion, the Turks are fighting the Ukrainians for the 2nd place, and the Chinese have deserved the first place.
        2. grindz
          grindz 14 December 2020 03: 19
          0
          Quote: SSR
          Quote: Tatiana
          I do not see anything unnatural in these attempts by Turkey.

          It's just that "the strongest programmers of the Turks" sounds strong.
          Invincible also spoke showing a block with algorithms, they can copy anything and a block with a margin of 25, this is about the S-300.

          I would not be so sarcastic about this phrase. There are a lot of programmers and electronics specialists in Turkey. They were able to create a strong base for the production of drones. They also develop many electronic systems for various areas of the economy. At least in the area where I work, the Turks are not badly represented. About 7-8 years ago, when I closely communicated with foreign suppliers of electronic products, people came from Turkey to present their technologies and everything was very good there.
      6. kytx
        kytx 14 December 2020 10: 16
        +3
        hrenas two
        one of the creators of the C400 said
        let them dig into the program as much as they like, reverse engineering of our algorithms is impossible

        not literally but somehow
      7. Alex Justice
        Alex Justice 14 December 2020 17: 05
        +1
        Russia would have done the same :)
      8. lion1980
        lion1980 14 December 2020 21: 06
        +2
        All this talk about "shaking the brains" of the onboard digital computer is stupidity and provocation! There can be no question of any "flashing". Any attempt to "get into the brain" ends with "technical hara-kiri" - the brain dies !!! And this is provided for any highly intelligent military equipment exported by the Russian military-industrial complex,
        1. gsev
          gsev 15 December 2020 00: 38
          0
          Quote: lion1980
          Any attempt to "get into the brain" ends with "technical hara-kiri" - the brain dies !!!

          In the PRC, the cost of cracking software ranges from $ 10 to $ 100 for weight controllers, frequency controllers and PLCs, although hacking should not be. I observed an identical temperature measurement error on the South China QMA frequency bands and the Shandong "Tai'an automatic equipment". Although Tai'an was programmed by South Koreans and used Texas instrument chips and German core modules. And QMA has purely budgetary Chinese components. The Chinese were able to clone Mitsubishi controllers and Swiss Baumer sensors. So Chinese programmers can customize both clones of baumers and baumers themselves. Also, Chinese clones of baumers are programmed without problems by a Chinese programmer. In C300, the complexity can only be with the creation of a radio signal and the processing of the echo of this signal received by the antennas. Everything else the Turks can easily reprogram. And after a year of negotiations, the Chinese demanded from DNPP to sell only key components and technologies, and not the entire installation.
  3. Gennady Fomkin
    Gennady Fomkin 13 December 2020 15: 28
    +1
    laughing Our sworn ally Lukoshenko sold the S-300 to the United States in the 90s and not an export modification, but a normal one.
    1. Rusland
      Rusland 13 December 2020 15: 36
      -9
      How disgusting, where did you look. smile
    2. Aviator_
      Aviator_ 13 December 2020 15: 36
      +17
      Shushkevich sold it to Luka.
      1. Asad
        Asad 13 December 2020 16: 28
        +7
        Any news from Greece about Turkey, as well as vice versa, must be divided by at least ten!
        1. Pavlos Melas
          Pavlos Melas 13 December 2020 18: 11
          +1
          Quote: ASAD
          Any news from Greece about Turkey, as well as vice versa, must be divided by at least ten!

          True and also check the source. Pendopostagmus is so-so source.
  4. Artunis
    Artunis 13 December 2020 15: 34
    +7
    This is most likely a fake, it is impossible to reprogram the system from the word "in any way", everything is sewn up at the hardware level.
    1. orionvitt
      orionvitt 13 December 2020 15: 41
      +11
      Quote: Artunis
      This is most likely a fake, it is impossible to reprogram the system from the word "in any way"

      The question is not about reprogramming as a fact, but about trying. The fact that the cunning Turkish partners would definitely try to do this was known from the very beginning.
      1. figwam
        figwam 13 December 2020 16: 08
        +6
        Quote: orionvitt
        The question is not about reprogramming as a fact, but about trying.

        They can also disable them by their intervention.
        1. DymOk_v_dYmke
          DymOk_v_dYmke 13 December 2020 17: 47
          +2
          Quote: figvam
          They can also disable them by their intervention.

          The faster the better.
          The main thing is that it was fixed that they themselves, brought out with their own pens. hi
    2. Overlock
      Overlock 13 December 2020 15: 53
      +36
      Quote: Artunis
      This is most likely a fake, it is impossible to reprogram the system from the word "in any way", everything is sewn up at the hardware level.

      there is nothing unbreakable! It's just that the level of specialists let us down.
      1. Klingon
        Klingon 13 December 2020 16: 23
        +11
        when trying to hack, all guarantees are automatically canceled. In the event of equipment failure, such equipment is no longer subject to return or replacement or any maintenance.
        1. Overlock
          Overlock 13 December 2020 16: 35
          +35
          Quote: Klingon
          when trying to hack, all guarantees are automatically canceled. In the event of equipment failure, such equipment is no longer subject to return or replacement or any maintenance.

          it is not very scary. Test purchase was made, their goods
      2. nerovnayadoroga
        nerovnayadoroga 14 December 2020 23: 10
        0
        This is not a teapot with a plug in the socket, so you can break as much as you like, even iron, if you can. Blessed are those who believe! Amen!
    3. Yok Migarek
      Yok Migarek 13 December 2020 15: 54
      +7
      Quote: Artunis
      This is most likely a fake, it is impossible to reprogram the system from the word "in any way", everything is sewn up at the hardware level.

      Totally agree with you. And it seems to me that the Turks are not so stupid as not to understand this. And such stuffing is done by "trained specialists".
      1. alexey alexeyev_2
        alexey alexeyev_2 13 December 2020 21: 47
        -1
        Well, don't tell me. Unas in Russia is not for nothing that all stupid Turks are called.
    4. Toucan
      Toucan 13 December 2020 16: 02
      +15
      This is a fake, export air defense systems are not equipped with a state identification system. Moreover, Turkey uses systems of a similar purpose to the NATO standard, which are absolutely incompatible with ours.
      1. Dodikson
        Dodikson 13 December 2020 16: 13
        -4
        there is such a topic that it is impossible to shoot down goals with a certain state belonging.
        so the Turks began working on their F-16s when their F-16s refused to target Israeli F-16s.
        1. Toucan
          Toucan 13 December 2020 16: 25
          +2
          What do you mean "refuses to target"? CIUS turns off, does the on-board radar tracking fail, or does the GOS UR not see the target? what
          All this is from the realm of myths. No. When selling the Su-27 to the PRC on export vehicles
          limited the number of letter frequencies at which the UR R-27R could be induced. Knowing these frequencies, it was possible to suppress them with interference and disrupt missile guidance.
          1. Dodikson
            Dodikson 13 December 2020 21: 54
            -4
            Damn, argue our flyers what the avionics will tell him if he tries to aim the UR explosive on his plane.
            1. Yok Migarek
              Yok Migarek 13 December 2020 22: 09
              +3
              Quote: Dodikson
              Damn, argue our flyers what the avionics will tell him if he tries to aim the UR explosive on his plane.

              He will simply say "friend" or "stranger". If "his", he will ask for permission to work for this specific purpose.
              1. Dodikson
                Dodikson 14 December 2020 01: 26
                -4
                the Turks did not allow them to aim their weapons at Israeli aircraft. because the Turks raised howl that they are not fully protected. because they cannot defend themselves in case of anything from Israeli aircraft, which have their own avionics and have no such restrictions
            2. Toucan
              Toucan 14 December 2020 01: 11
              +1
              But this does not mean that fighters of the same type belonging to different countries will not be able to use weapons against the enemy.
    5. Dodikson
      Dodikson 13 December 2020 16: 12
      -6
      and who will prohibit changing mikruhi with new data flashed?
      there is more complexity in CRC and ROM encryption, but this can be circumvented.
      1. Mar.Tirah
        Mar.Tirah 13 December 2020 16: 53
        +3
        Quote: Dodikson
        and who will prohibit changing mikruhi with new data flashed?

        CONTRACT !!!! Find and read the agreement between Russia and Turkey on the supply of S-400 air defense systems to Turkey, as well as on the further deployment of production of these complexes in Turkey with the transfer of technologies that do not undermine our defense capability, with a categorical prohibition on the transfer of technologies and components to a third party. Only the first batch of air defense missile systems was transferred with payment, there is also a second batch. Turkey acquires from Russia four divisions of the S-400 air defense missile systems for an amount of $ 2,5 billion. Turkey will pay 45% of this amount as an advance, 55% will be Russian loans .. .With any breach of contract, the deal is canceled with damages. This is a very long-term contract, not for one year
        1. Dodikson
          Dodikson 13 December 2020 21: 52
          -3
          I did not write that the Turks did it, I wrote how it can be done.
      2. Piramidon
        Piramidon 13 December 2020 19: 46
        +1
        Quote: Dodikson
        and who will prohibit changing mikruhi with new data flashed?

        Turks are not so "Turks". It seems that during the sale of these complexes, their after-sale service was also stipulated by our specialists. If the Turks climb in and change their filling, then the service can be forgotten.
      3. nerovnayadoroga
        nerovnayadoroga 14 December 2020 23: 13
        -2
        Go to the toilet and reprogram ..., otherwise it just stinks, don't get it!
    6. MrFox
      MrFox 13 December 2020 18: 48
      0
      At the level of what iron?
  5. Harry.km
    Harry.km 13 December 2020 15: 36
    -2
    Now the Greek newspaper Pentapostagma claims that Turkish military engineers "wanted to reprogram the" friend or foe "system of the air defense systems purchased from Russia"
    Rather not reprogramming, but hacking the algorithms of the friend or foe system. Most likely, the air defense system will not be able to shoot at air targets that respond correctly to the system's request, even if the Turks find where this feature is. There it is sewn into the hardware, and an attempt to "fix" it will most likely lead to "oskirpichivaniya" of the complex. But the algorithms are yes ... They can then be emulated on something, in their, so to speak, purposes.

    Another knife in the back ...
  6. Gennady Fomkin
    Gennady Fomkin 13 December 2020 15: 39
    +8
    Quote: Aviator_
    Shushkevich sold it to Luka.

    Investigation.

    Topic: sale by the government of the Republic of Belarus of the S-300 air defense system in the USA (1995).

    In 1995 A. Lukashenko sold the S-300 air defense system (the only installation in the Republic of Belarus used for training purposes at that time) to the United States. Only part of the installation was sold, since the early warning radar for low-flying targets and the algorithms for working with the complex were removed. Belarusian specialists tried to get the missing blocks in Russia, but were refused. Kazakhstan helped out, where they found the missing blocks.
    As a result, the installation was loaded at a military airfield near Minsk into a US Air Force transport aircraft and sent overseas. The amount of the deal turned out to be ridiculous.

    The protests of the Russian leadership, pointing to the secret characteristics of the complex at the time, were ignored by the official Minsk.

    Purpose of the sale: A. Lukashenko in the first months of his presidency was looking for a "foothold". The United States, which at that time had a huge influence on the foreign and domestic policy of Russia, was among the first who, in the opinion of the Belarusian leadership, could push through Moscow's economic support for Minsk. The political cover was to be organized by Washington - a kind of "orange" version of the mid-90s.

    Further extracts, quotes, sources:

    1. Extract from the Report of the Russian Institute for Strategic Studies (RISS)
    Defense Capabilities and Armed Forces (1996)
    "In 1994, Belarus sold elements of the S-300 anti-aircraft missile system to the United States, which was greeted negatively by many in Russia, as it damages Russia's national security and its position on the world arms market."
    "Ally" that ROTTED laughing
    1. Aviator_
      Aviator_ 13 December 2020 16: 51
      +1
      Thank you, I didn’t know that Luka went overboard with Nazarbay. Only you have links to 1994 sales, then to 1995. So when is it real?
  7. Dimide
    Dimide 13 December 2020 15: 41
    +2
    Anyone, in the place of Ankara, would first of all try to protect themselves from bookmarks and build into the existing identification system, and not rebuild everything for a new one. Expensive however
    1. Dimide
      Dimide 13 December 2020 16: 01
      -1
      As far as I remember, in Greece, the S-300 is in service and is built into the existing identification system
  8. Gennady Fomkin
    Gennady Fomkin 13 December 2020 15: 44
    0
    Quote: Artunis
    This is most likely a fake, it is impossible to reprogram the system from the word "in any way", everything is sewn up at the hardware level.

    According to the information provided, Minsk has established the supply of both Soviet and
    and more modern weapons on the territory of NATO countries and the United States. Belarus did not consult with Moscow on this issue, although it purchases many weapons from Russia. According to journalists, the S-300 complexes and ammunition for them were recently transferred in favor of Washington. It is specified that in this way Minsk violated the agreements concluded with the Russian Federation.
    1. Overlock
      Overlock 13 December 2020 15: 51
      +32
      Quote: Gennady Fomkin
      According to journalists, the S-300 complexes and ammunition for them were recently transferred in favor of Washington. It is specified that in this way Minsk violated the agreements concluded with the Russian Federation.

      Given the "multi-vector" nature, Luke is not surprised. For the sake of preserving his seat he will sell everyone and everyone.
    2. _Ugene_
      _Ugene_ 13 December 2020 17: 00
      +6
      According to journalists, the S-300 complexes and ammunition for them were recently transferred in favor of Washington.
      It looks like a misinformation that would make it clear who and whom, is there something other than the "statement of journalists"?
      1. SaLaR
        SaLaR 13 December 2020 17: 44
        -2
        They all have the same answer ..unnamed sources...... good
  9. Overlock
    Overlock 13 December 2020 15: 49
    +33
    It would be strange if the Turks did not. I hope that we have provided everything. In general, this should always be borne in mind with the export of arms. Unreliable partners
    1. dedusik
      dedusik 13 December 2020 16: 01
      0
      And who is sure that from the S-400 purchased by Turkey, the data is not transferred where necessary? repeat
  10. Gennady Fomkin
    Gennady Fomkin 13 December 2020 15: 51
    +2
    Both are in NATO. This will be the last day of NATO's commercial organization. All her clients will simultaneously scratch their turnips and ask the sacramental question: "What am I doing here? Yes for that kind of money ?!"laughing - NATO, guys, this is the office for the distribution of orders of the American military-industrial complex among the lop-eared suckers ... laughing

     
  11. evgen1221
    evgen1221 13 December 2020 15: 53
    0
    Either the skis do not go or the journalist is narrow-minded - how does he represent it? - and let's sew our zrk on the Zembabwe code - then we will not touch the Zebabweans and shoot down our Turkish ones, oh, a good idea! It seemed to me that the codes of someone else's for a specific customer were tightly sewn into the presence of the customer during the transfer. What a nonsense the Greeks write.
    1. The popuas
      The popuas 13 December 2020 16: 09
      +4
      Didn't you think that the Turks were trying to disable the bookmarks responsible for launching on Russian aircraft?
    2. Toucan
      Toucan 13 December 2020 16: 10
      +5
      It seemed to me that the codes of someone else's for a specific customer were tightly sewn into the presence of the customer during the transfer.
      State identification codes have a limited validity period, and are re-entered after a certain time interval. For this purpose, special equipment is intended that generates a request-response code based on the original key, using a cryptographic algorithm. Such equipment is not supplied abroad, and therefore this "news" is a fake.
      1. O. Bender
        O. Bender 13 December 2020 21: 27
        +2
        I support, colleague. I remember the change of codes was made on command from a higher command post. The comment below complements.
    3. Pandiurin
      Pandiurin 13 December 2020 18: 42
      +2
      Quote: evgen1221
      Either the skis do not go or the journalist is narrow-minded - how does he represent it? - and let's sew our zrk on the Zembabwe code - then we will not touch the Zebabweans and shoot down our Turkish ones, oh, a good idea! It seemed to me that the codes of someone else's for a specific customer were tightly sewn into the presence of the customer during the transfer. What a nonsense the Greeks write.


      Unlikely,
      Most likely this is an external block to which only Turks have access. There is a small "black box" in a separate rack, the interaction interface is agreed. С400 only organizes a channel for friend or foe requests. All decryption, encoding and verification of codes is done in a black box. On c400, only which targets are their own, which are aliens. This approach allows the customer to maintain secrecy according to the friend or foe system in cases of need to change the codes (for example, exclude the Greek ones from theirs).
      Otherwise, the Turks would not buy air defense.

      The screeching of the Greeks may be due to the fact that in their "black box" the Turks excluded the Greeks from theirs. And their planes are placed on target tracking / acquisition.
      1. evgen1221
        evgen1221 13 December 2020 18: 55
        -1
        Well, it seems to me that such moments are initially negotiated with the buyer (you have everything of your own or you on your own) and it is sewn up tightly. This screeching, as I see it in this, consists in the fact that the Greeks are very afraid of the Greeks with a loud voice that the Turks have taken it for themselves and only for themselves.
  12. Kuz
    Kuz 13 December 2020 16: 56
    +16
    Be that as it may, the Turks received from Russia products that they did not have before.
  13. Avior
    Avior 13 December 2020 17: 08
    +11
    Pure water fake.
    In Russia, the password identification system is used, in Turkey, as in NATO in general, the American Mark XII system.
    There is nothing in common, and there was no point in supplying the Password equipment to Turkey along with the S-400.
  14. rocket757
    rocket757 13 December 2020 17: 56
    0
    Everything is complicated, but not critical.
    1. Ua3qhp
      Ua3qhp 13 December 2020 18: 01
      +3
      Question. Why would a NATO country break the NATO state recognition system with its missiles?
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 13 December 2020 18: 33
        +2
        So the experts clearly say that the identification system is installed or not, at the request of the customer ... but in fact it does not beat ours in any way.
  15. lopvlad
    lopvlad 13 December 2020 18: 48
    +2
    "Increasing the functionality of the S-400 air defense system, since the Turks are not satisfied with the Russian export version with certain restrictions."


    quite understandable desire, but what does the "friend or foe" system have to do with it, because no matter how much you program it, the range of the complex will not grow from this. Yes, and export versions of weapons a priori assume that they will have a "friend or foe" system installed on them.
  16. Gennady Fomkin
    Gennady Fomkin 13 December 2020 20: 10
    0
    Quote: _Ugene_
    According to journalists, the S-300 complexes and ammunition for them were recently transferred in favor of Washington.
    It looks like a misinformation that would make it clear who and whom, is there something other than the "statement of journalists"?

    At the same time, the American-Canadian company "ATOS" purchased the control cabin of the S-300 system from the Belarusian company Beltechexport. Moscow even knew that the cabin had been delivered to the Huntsville military base. The Russian Defense Ministry was categorically against this deal. Moreover, overseas buyers looked at the S-300 PMU model in the training center of the Minsk Higher Military Anti-Aircraft Missile School and began to conduct secret negotiations on the purchase of a part of it - the 40U6 computer complex. The Americans did not hide the fact that they were primarily interested in the combat program of the complex, the device of missile guidance heads and the structure of their fuel. Moscow already knew that one of the secret American design bureaus was planning to "give birth" to a more perfect heir to the Patriot, code-named PAC-3 ". Proud Americans have set themselves a maximum task - to make such an air defense system that would be the most powerful in the world.

    And above all - better than Russian. According to information obtained by Kommersant from reliable sources, there were no more than five S-300 systems in Belarus at the time of the deal with the S-300. Two of them were on combat duty, covering the airspace over Minsk, and three were the training base of the Minsk Higher Engineering Anti-Aircraft Missile School (MVIZRU). Moreover, only one of the five complexes was a variant of the S-300 PS, all the others were PT and PT-1. On the removal of one of the two complexes from combat duty, for obvious reasons, "BATKA" "friend" and "ally and sold laughing



    ..
  17. flicker
    flicker 13 December 2020 20: 11
    -1
    Turkish engineers tried to reprogram the S-400 air defense system "friend or foe"
    It looks like the Turkish S-400 has landed too many Bayraktars laughing
  18. AVA77
    AVA77 13 December 2020 21: 04
    +2
    Sounds like nonsense, It's like trying to edit the firmware, sand-lime brick.
  19. Klingon
    Klingon 13 December 2020 22: 00
    -2
    Quote: Overlock
    Quote: Klingon
    when trying to hack, all guarantees are automatically canceled. In the event of equipment failure, such equipment is no longer subject to return or replacement or any maintenance.

    it is not very scary. Test purchase was made, their goods

    Well, what's next, hello, we’re here, or we are using what we have or everything is in the trash. striped even the S-300 could not copy-paste
  20. tolmachiev51
    tolmachiev51 14 December 2020 03: 36
    -1
    In fact, such things should be provided for by the sales contract - they will hack. Reprogram and start shooting down all planes in a row and blame Russia for this - they put the "wrong" complexes. !!!
  21. EvilLion
    EvilLion 14 December 2020 08: 22
    0
    What can be hacked there? Does the S-400 contain a restriction not to shoot at planes with answers in the RF Air Force standard? I'm afraid that technically they will not do this, since this assumes that there is a code for this in the firmware that can be found. If the checks are similar to the CRC, then this will allow the development of imitation of Russian defendants. Well, after Belenko's escape, the "Belenkovo ​​button" was introduced on all Soviet aircraft, allowing you to manually disable the blocking of fire.
  22. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 14 December 2020 08: 51
    0
    Are there computers with Windows on the S400? And are they programmed at the household level?
  23. Scorpio05
    Scorpio05 14 December 2020 10: 34
    -1
    Quote: venik
    Quote: Tatiana
    Therefore, it is not at all necessary that the Greeks are lying about Turkey in relation to the S-400 air defense systems supplied to it by Russia? They may not lie, but speak the truth.

    Quote: Tatiana
    the Greek newspaper Pentapostagma states that Turkish military engineers “wanted to reprogram the friend or foe system air defense systems purchased from Russia "

    ==========
    Have you ever wondered WHERE the Greeks know WHAT EXACTLY Turkish engineers tried to "hack or alter"? The Turks "whispered in their ear"? Or Greek intelligence (I wonder if they actually have it? lol ) - so powerful and omniscient? Or all the same information "OBS" ("One Grandma Said")? request

    There, in Greece, a WarGonzo branch was opened, Sema Pegov and his boss Aram Gabrielyanov provide the Greeks with insider information.
  24. Vlad Sobol
    Vlad Sobol 14 December 2020 12: 06
    +1
    It was necessary to glue a mustache on the head of the rocket, business then
  25. armageddon
    armageddon 14 December 2020 13: 42
    0
    Hmm ... When trying to get into the brains of the complex ... In five minutes ... An ultra-expensive piece of metal ... !!!
  26. gjkrjdybr50
    gjkrjdybr50 14 December 2020 15: 18
    +1
    In the Turkish system, the Mark XII identification system is installed according to NATO standards. Improved antenna NRZ, connection, control and power systems. It's all not secret. The secret is the installation of the ShDU of the Mark XII system and the input of the codes (ciphers) of the identification system into it. It is impossible to remove Greece from the system, because codes (ciphers) of ShDU are all-NATO, although it is possible in some mode of identification and there is an additional sign of belonging to a particular state.
  27. The comment was deleted.
  28. My_log_in
    My_log_in 15 December 2020 09: 46
    0
    Quote: venik
    Quote: Tatiana
    Therefore, it is not at all necessary that the Greeks are lying about Turkey in relation to the S-400 air defense systems supplied to it by Russia? They may not lie, but speak the truth.

    Quote: Tatiana
    the Greek newspaper Pentapostagma states that Turkish military engineers “wanted to reprogram the friend or foe system air defense systems purchased from Russia "

    ==========
    Have you ever wondered WHERE the Greeks know WHAT EXACTLY Turkish engineers tried to "hack or alter"? The Turks "whispered in their ear"? Or Greek intelligence (I wonder if they actually have it? lol ) - so powerful and omniscient? Or all the same information "OBS" ("One Grandma Said")? request

    The Greeks have the C300, they probably judge them by themselves, they also look at them for a reason.
  29. Russs05
    Russs05 15 December 2020 12: 53
    0
    Turks do not sleep stop
  30. Rohan
    Rohan 15 December 2020 13: 01
    0
    How the identification system in the S-400 was made - I don't know. But from the experience of studying the S-300 (PVURE air defense) - systems were exported WITHOUT a "friend or foe" interrogator (well, and some more differences). I think it's the same with the S-400.
    Formally, the interrogator is just a transceiver sending a request and receiving a response. The whole secret (and it has always been CC) is in the algorithm for forming the request and getting the correct answer. The Turks don't need this from the word "absolutely" They probably have their own identification system and, most likely, they simply installed their interrogator on the S-400.
  31. Maks winter
    Maks winter 20 December 2020 19: 15
    0
    US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo in a telephone conversation with Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu said that the S-400 air defense system threatens the security of the American military. According to him, the sanctions against Ankara will prevent Moscow from receiving revenues and increasing its influence.

    "Secretary of State Pompeo made it clear to Foreign Minister Cavusoglu that the acquisition of the S-400 system threatens the safety of American personnel and military technology, and also gives Russia access to the Turkish armed forces and defense industry," the US Department of State's deputy press chief said in a statement. Keila Brown. Mr. Pompeo called on his Turkish counterpart to "resolve the issue" with the S-400.

    "The Secretary of State stressed that the purpose of the sanctions is to prevent Russia from gaining significant income, access, influence, and they are not aimed at undermining the military capabilities or combat readiness of Turkey or other US allies and partners," the statement said.

    On December 14, the United States imposed sanctions on the Turkish Defense Industry Directorate and four senior officials from the department's leadership over the purchase of S-400 systems from Russia. The Turkish Foreign Ministry condemned Washington's actions and promised retaliatory measures. Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan called the sanctions an attack on the country's sovereign rights.

    More details about the sanctions are in the material of Kommersant "Turkey is being forced into an alliance."
    https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/4617525?utm_source=yxnews&utm_medium=desktop