Military Review

"The philosophy of Soviet armored vehicles failed": the Czech Republic assessed the results of the Karabakh campaign

133

The outcome of fierce battles in Nagorno-Karabakh allowed Baku to impose peace conditions on the Armenian side, which may be perceived by Azerbaijan as a victorious end to the campaign.


There are not many victims on the drone account


The Czech edition CZDefence, believing that "Azerbaijan has an undeniable quality military superiority", tried to assess the results of the war in the light of modernizing its own army. First of all, the domination of Baku was noticeable when using UAVs, which were represented by three types: exclusively reconnaissance (such as IAI Heron, Elbit Hermes or Aeronautics Orbiter), disposable attack "kamikaze drones" (for example, IAI Harop or Elbit SkyStriker) and and finally, drones with precision ammunition (especially the Bayraktar TB2), which accounted for a significant proportion of the destroyed troops.

But, probably, the largest share of Armenian losses among equipment and personnel falls on the Azerbaijani artillery [...] When we talk about UAVs, reconnaissance drones are of the greatest tactical importance

- considers CZDefence, pointing out that they allow the commander to control the situation on the battlefield in near real time, identify enemy positions and conduct targeted artillery fire.

As the newspaper writes, it is in this vein of the Czech army that it is necessary to build a procurement program: first of all, scouts should be purchased, and then drones of other categories. At the same time, air defense should be strengthened, which should be equipped with C-UAS systems equipped with equipment for detecting, tracking (in various ranges) and destroying or jamming UAVs.



Artillery is the god of war


Following the Ukrainian theater of operations, artillery demonstrated its advantages in Karabakh. However, it boils down not only to trunks, but also to target tracking and fire control systems - something that "the separatists of Donbass and the armed forces of Azerbaijan" possessed, unlike Kiev and Armenia. This includes both drones and artillery radars or passive electronic reconnaissance systems. Actually, the barrels, as noted by CZDefence, should be subject to the requirements for rate of fire and mobility, which, for example, are possessed by CAESAR and DANA wheeled ACS (subject to their modernization).

Rocket launchers are extremely important, but the Czech army decommissioned its 122mm systems back in 2010. Local RM-70 Vampire or Israeli IMI Lynx can be used to restore the fleet of this equipment.

To resist enemy artillery fire, it is necessary to equip troops with a C-RAM system, which is able to destroy artillery missiles, shells and mines. The base radar should be the Israeli IAI / Elta EL / M-2084 radar, the weapon of destruction - the Rafael SPYDER-MR system with Python guided missiles. The next step should be the purchase of a more powerful air defense system, "ideally the IAI Barak MX".

Soviet armored vehicles are outdated


In terms of armored vehicles, the publication believes that "the basic philosophy of Soviet armored vehicles has failed," as it does not provide sufficient protection for the crew and troops from the destructive effects of modern weapons:

Most armored vehicles of Soviet origin have low (and decreasing) combat value on the modern battlefield

- considers CZDefence, pointing out that its modernization can be considered only as a temporary solution: "the military of a developed country should use completely different platforms", and not such as the BVP-2 [based on the BMP-2] in service with the Czech army or the upgraded T tank -72M4 CZ.

The Czech army just needs new Tankswhich offer higher levels of protection, firepower and mobility

- the newspaper notes, believing that an interesting option could be a possible adaptation of the South Korean MBT K2.

133 comments
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  1. Vladimir61
    Vladimir61 13 December 2020 05: 48
    +32
    The Czech army just needs new tanks that offer higher levels of protection, firepower and mobility.
    And what exceptional parameters does Black Panther have? Will the presence of TIUS and BIUS protect against being hit by a projectile or ammunition from a UAV? Or is NERA dynamic protection a panacea for all ills? Continuation of one of the sides of Russophobia - in Russia all the weapons are bad and "rusty" (according to the US Assistant Secretary of State for Military and Political Affairs Clark Cooper).
    1. Lionnvrsk
      Lionnvrsk 13 December 2020 10: 07
      +5
      Quote: Vladimir61
      And what exceptional parameters does Black Panther have?

      Well, the most expensive car. Almost 9 lamas for a thing in the basic configuration.
    2. seregatara1969
      seregatara1969 13 December 2020 13: 16
      +5
      FSE new is better than old. In Ukraine, for sure. Maybe it will work in the Czech Republic? A?
      1. Alex777
        Alex777 13 December 2020 17: 14
        +5
        To the question - who benefits from this article, there is a simple answer.
        To the suppliers of the equipment which is so specifically referred to.
        1. Lara Croft
          Lara Croft 13 December 2020 21: 20
          +3
          Quote: Alex777
          To the question - who benefits from this article, there is a simple answer.
          To the suppliers of the equipment which is so specifically referred to.

          Speak directly - Israeli Jews ...
    3. vik669
      vik669 13 December 2020 19: 37
      +1
      the Czech army needs to build a procurement program: first of all, scouts must be acquired, and then - and then nothing is needed!
    4. serzh1960
      serzh1960 18 December 2020 17: 07
      +1
      I wonder which of the neighbors is the Czech Republic going to fight with? And does she need these expenses?
  2. Aerodrome
    Aerodrome 13 December 2020 05: 51
    +33
    "The philosophy of Soviet armored vehicles failed": the Czech Republic assessed the results of the Karabakh campaign
    and it never occurred to the Czechs that the "bayraktar" did not care, the T-72, or the "leclerc", or "abrams", or "leo" ... just strategic illiteracy and the technological backwardness of the Armenian Armed Forces.
    1. dedBoroded
      dedBoroded 13 December 2020 06: 01
      +26
      This is an elementary fear of the ghosts of the Soviet past, to which these very Czechs had their hands, and now they are ashamed of it, as unfashionable and outdated parents. A tank is not a drone, you can't build it in a year. The development of tanks stretches for tens of years even in technically developed countries at enormous costs. There has been no union for 30 years, but what is the groundwork left? And so any donkey can kick a dead lion.
      1. Boris Chernikov
        Boris Chernikov 13 December 2020 11: 37
        +3
        so they are 30 years old are told about "rusty Russian weapons". and why the tank should fight the drone, when it is an air defense task
        1. ProkletyiPirat
          ProkletyiPirat 13 December 2020 17: 45
          -1
          Quote: Boris Chernikov
          and why the tank has to fight the drone,when it's an air defense mission

          Well, in this case, "not everything is so simple", UAVs are different, and if air defense systems can still work against the "Elbit SkyStriker", at least theoretically, then against the UAV-kamikaze-VVPZ (VTOL) (for example, quadcopters with OFS \ KS \ IED), the air defense will not do anything, including air defense on derivation base and / or terminator.
          1. Boris Chernikov
            Boris Chernikov 13 December 2020 23: 06
            0
            and why not? the task is to provide detection and tracking, which will automatically allow the destruction to be carried out ... and yes ... since you have specialized complexes that cannot cope, how do you propose to fight tanks? convert them into specialized vehicles? maximum that can be expected in the future -equipping tanks with complexes a la anti-drone with a microwave / laser ... although it can put an SOEP from President-S there? in the same way it will blind the optics ... you can first put on the command vehicle 1 on a platoon, and then on the rest put if necessary
            1. ProkletyiPirat
              ProkletyiPirat 14 December 2020 05: 51
              0
              Because a real war is far from theoretical verbiage. You do not quote PR slogans from manufacturers, customers and other theorists, but simulate!

              1) Here you take a platoon of T72 tanks with the support of the derivation-air defense and infantry, here you enter the settlement with the task of capture, the enemy at the intersection takes out the tanks and leaves, the derivation could not protect the AFV, the Khrushchevs blocked the detection / firing trajectory for it (the enemy was not * mate * and took into account the location of your forces, LDP and your forces).

              2) The same LDP, the same scenario, we take the fact of UAV detection as an axiom, like everything is fine and victory? Yes, no matter how! The enemy simply duplicates the attack in different places at once and / or changes the design of the UAV making it faster / more maneuverable!

              2) The same LDP, the same scenario, take the fact that the fragments hit the UAV as an axiom, like everything is fine and victory? Yes, no matter how! The enemy simply changes the design of the UAV by adding anti-fragmentation protection and uses the OFS, not the KS! Yes, there is even nothing special to come up with, just a rework of the "anti-bunker bombs \ KR" in the direction of cheaper and lower speeds / ranges.

              And this is even without talking about resources and "chaos on the battlefield" ...
              1. The comment was deleted.
          2. Glad
            Glad 15 December 2020 01: 00
            -1
            UAVs are different

            Very true. Only conclusions from their own words have not been made, alas ...
            if air defense systems can work against the "Elbit SkyStriker" at least theoretically, then against the UAV-kamikaze-VVPZ (VTOL) ... the air defense will not do anything

            Uh-huh. It won't. For nothing against the above-mentioned UAVs, from the point of view of air defense, should not be done. Such drones are the extraction of electronic warfare equipment.
            Let me remind you to refresh your memory, there is an addiction - the more the UAV is protected from electronic warfare means, the more expensive it is. And the protection / price relationship is far from linear. You can super-duper-mega-turbo protect your magic wunder-quadrocopter from electronic warfare, but you will only have enough money to buy ADYN such a "sweet" drone (figuratively speaking). Well, maybe as many as TWO. Yeah, two. And it is not yet known which will be more expensive - your drones, or the tanks that they will have to hit.
            And then it will be like in an anecdote:
            - Commander, what if the enemy uses tanks?
            - And against tanks, we will launch drones, drones, and more drones!
            - How? All two?
    2. Imobile
      Imobile 13 December 2020 11: 15
      0
      Understand that they have normal literacy in terms of using Soviet technology and they were well equipped with electronic warfare systems, tanks and air defense systems in comparison with Azerbaijan. And they acted with ground forces quite competently (judging by the video), unlike Azerbaijan. Or do you propose to transfer all air defense systems to Russia? I think the result would be the same, only there would be more personnel for the destruction of air defense. And Azerbaijan VS Armenia and Russia VS USA, The amount of air defense per kilometer is not just catastrophically small in Russia, but practically absent. And even if all people are driven to do air defense, this will not improve the situation, one must act on the upper level with the mind, not with the hands.
      Azerbaijan has shown that even if there is not much intelligence at the lower level, it is possible to win a war with small forces if there is intelligence at the upper level. The mind at the top level allows you to reduce losses at the bottom.
      1. Salty
        Salty 13 December 2020 11: 20
        +9
        Quote: Imobile
        The amount of air defense per kilometer is not just catastrophically small in Russia, but practically absent

        Masterpiece. "Air defense per kilometer" - what for a kilometer, excuse me? What is this indicator? Taiga, tundra - also counted? "Colllicity", you see ... for a kilometer ... good
      2. Boris Chernikov
        Boris Chernikov 13 December 2020 11: 41
        +2
        "too little" .. how much? 3,5 thousand air defense systems of various types .. can you tell who has enough of them then? Az-n won in fact at the expense of the wunderwafle in the face of the UAV, and the Armenians first bought rotten air defense systems, then squeezed to introduce more modern systems, which led to an increase in losses, because Pashinyan did not need victory from a word at all
        1. Imobile
          Imobile 13 December 2020 12: 45
          -4
          I personally wrote a manual to justify the destruction of the C300.
          The first thing that they did not have time to deploy
          second crooked hands
          agreement not to shoot
          1. Boris Chernikov
            Boris Chernikov 13 December 2020 12: 53
            +2
            any wunderwolf can be destroyed ... the deployment of the S-300 should take place under the cover of the Thors ... and the Torahs in a couple of places they only shone and separately from other air defense systems ... in other words, carelessness multiplied by poverty
          2. Albert1988
            Albert1988 13 December 2020 15: 45
            +4
            Quote: Imobile
            I personally wrote a manual to justify the destruction of the C300.
            The first thing that they did not have time to deploy
            second crooked hands
            agreement not to shoot

            And nothing that any weapon you need: A) be able to use. that is, to know when, how and where to use it, and 2) the weapon must be in working order, otherwise in the Donbass the militias somehow took several Ukrainian S-300s, which have all the electronic filling except for color-meth. ..
            You haven't read such a manual? And in vain ...
            1. Imobile
              Imobile 13 December 2020 16: 38
              -3
              I wrote for Syria, if that
              1. Albert1988
                Albert1988 13 December 2020 17: 04
                0
                Quote: Imobile
                I wrote for Syria, if that

                And how many Russian S-300s were destroyed in Syria and how many Syrian ones, don't you remember?
                1. Imobile
                  Imobile 13 December 2020 18: 10
                  -7
                  You can search my posts for those periods. I wrote that it is impossible to supply complexes to Syria, because it would damage their prestige, because Israel, as it bombed, will continue to bomb. And when they put it on, I wrote about the training manual, how now to justify the incessant bombing. They do not bomb the complexes, because they do not care about them, they want to bomb, they want, they save missiles
                  1. Albert1988
                    Albert1988 13 December 2020 18: 28
                    +4
                    Quote: Imobile
                    You can search my posts for those periods. I wrote that you cannot supply complexes to Syria

                    I believe you what you wrote)))
                    Quote: Imobile
                    And when they put it on, I wrote about the training manual, how now to justify the incessant bombing.

                    And where does the S-300? Israel works from outside the airspace of Syria, fuck on their planes - and you will be an aggressor, not only in the context of propaganda, but also in accordance with international laws, on the other hand, no one will stick with such complexes into your native sky.
                    Quote: Imobile
                    it will damage their prestige

                    Prestige is formed by other methods than the propaganda cries of incompetent mass media disinformation ...
                    Quote: Imobile
                    They do not bomb the complexes, because they do not care about them, they want to bomb, they want, they save missiles

                    I dare to ask, when was the last time you were "on a barbecue" with the Israeli Air Force command and over a glass of beer talked to the local generals from the aviation for how they choose ground targets? And yes - "arguments" like "logic dictates", "well, this is already clear" and "obvious fact" DO NOT work here ....
                    1. Avior
                      Avior 13 December 2020 19: 05
                      +1
                      Israel works from outside Syrian airspace, fuck their planes - and you will be an aggressor, not only in the context of propaganda, but also in accordance with international law

                      there are no such laws.
                      This is not included in the concept of aggression.
                      1. Albert1988
                        Albert1988 13 December 2020 19: 29
                        +1
                        Quote: Avior
                        there are no such laws.
                        This is not included in the concept of aggression.

                        Yah? A strike on an aircraft of another state in the skies of that very state is interpreted as an act of aggression, just as a strike on a ship of another state in its own or international waters.
                        That is why the Turks at first tried to excuse themselves that drying allegedly entered their airspace.

                        It's another matter how the opposite side will react to this - approximately equal states will try to resolve it without a strong conflict, although there may be clashes (Pakistan-India is a good example of that), Russia-USA - there is a threat of a vigorous war, so most likely to bring a clash at all will not be (as with the Amersky destroyer recently). Turkey decided only on what was close to them and far from us, and then ours later threw a response to them, bombing the Turkomans even more and, even later, filling up only according to official data 30 Turkish military in Idlib (according to unofficial 80, but on then they are unofficial).

                        What do we have in the case of Syria and Israel - on the side of Israel there is a clear preponderance in military potential, so that Syria in any case will refrain from any "dangerous" actions - there are simply no resources, and even more so against the background of the star being created there.
                      2. Avior
                        Avior 13 December 2020 19: 34
                        +2
                        All cases of aggression are listed in the Convention on Aggression and UN General Assembly Resolutions.
                        Syria and Israel have been at war for a long time, so no action can fall under the definition of aggression
                        If an Israeli plane is attacked in Lebanese airspace, this is not included in the concept of aggression against Lebanon.
                        hi
                      3. Albert1988
                        Albert1988 13 December 2020 19: 49
                        0
                        Quote: Avior
                        If an Israeli plane is attacked in Lebanese airspace, this is not included in the concept of aggression against Lebanon.

                        It is to this aspect that the second half of my commentary is devoted - while Israel is only Hezbollah in Syria is having a nightmare - it is more expensive for Syria to go into such a counter.
  • avdkrd
    avdkrd 14 December 2020 04: 20
    +4
    Quote: Aerodrome
    and it never occurred to the Czechs that the Bayraktar did not care whether the T-72, or the Leclerc, or the Abrams, or the Leo.

    Nothing came to mind, another ordered article, with an obvious customer from the Czech Ministry of Defense, responsible for the procurement of equipment. It makes no sense to look for logic in such articles. Is it okay that Azerbaijan was also armed with Russian equipment?
    As it is not heard the desire of Baku, to buy leopards and abrams, coupled with delirium and puma.
  • A. Privalov
    A. Privalov 13 December 2020 06: 22
    +14
    Judging by the text, the Czech Republic is facing a very large-scale upgrade of a number of components of the Armed Forces. The thing is definitely necessary, but also very expensive. Oats are known to be expensive these days. The systems named in the article, desired to be acquired, will require not only material resources, but also a change in a number of concepts, I am not ashamed of this expression - philosophical views on the form and manner of conducting military operations. This will entail extensive retraining and training of personnel, which cannot be done in a short time. In a word, the Army of the Czech Republic, like the Israeli military-industrial complex, has something to do in the next five to six years. As an example:
    .
    In December 2019, both countries signed an agreement on the supply to the Czech Republic of radar installations used by the Iron Dome and David's Sling systems. The deal was worth $ 125 million.

    In September 2020, the Israeli company RAFAEL won a multi-year tender for the supply of Czech air defense systems to replace the outdated Soviet Cube systems. The deal is estimated at about $ 430 million. Four batteries of the Spyder anti-aircraft missile system will be supplied under the contract.
    1. Fotoceva62
      Fotoceva62 13 December 2020 07: 35
      +12
      The whole philosophy of the Czech Republic is to go over to the side of the strong in time and stand in front of him in a pose of "belated repentance" ... Limitrof, what else to say.
      1. zenion
        zenion 13 December 2020 16: 22
        0
        Not just in a pose, but in a pose, as in the days of Hitler. First, raise one hand, right, to a level just above the shoulder, and then both hands up to the maximum.
    2. venik
      venik 13 December 2020 12: 05
      +2
      Quote: A. Privalov
      Judging by the text, the Czech Republic is facing a very large-scale upgrade of a number of components of the Armed Forces. The thing is definitely necessary, but also very expensive.

      =========
      Yes, not just "expensive", but MONSTALLY expensive! If you follow the path suggested by these Czech "sofa experts" - namely, apply to combat MLRS missiles and artillery shells Israeli "...Rafael SPYDER-MR (the cost of the rocket is $ 300 thousand) with Python guided missiles. The next step should be the purchase of a more powerful air defense system, "ideally IAI Barak MX" (the cost of the rocket is from 500-550 thousand $(Indian avatar) before 1.6 million $).... ", then a very proud, but very small and poor Czech Republic about very quickly" without pants "will remain !!! Israel can still afford such things (it is on the" financial suction "of the United States), but the Czech Republic cannot !
      1. A. Privalov
        A. Privalov 13 December 2020 13: 19
        +6
        Quote: venik
        Yes, not just "expensive", but MONSTALLY expensive! If you follow the path suggested by these Czech "sofa experts" - namely, use Israeli MLRS and artillery shells to combat missiles and artillery shells "... Rafael SPYDER-MR (missile cost $ 300 thousand) with Python guided missiles. The next step should be the purchase a more powerful air defense system, "ideally IAI Barak MX" (the cost of the missile is from $ 500-550 thousand (Indian avariant) to $ 1.6 million) .... "

        Let's not get too far ahead. With the right approach to business, the purchase of four SPYDER batteries under the G2G agreement in the amount of $ 428 million is quite within the forces of the Czech military budget. In the kit, each installation will cost them $ 50 million, and the rest will go to rockets (the latest Python-5s go for 220 green) and training of personnel - technicians and operators.
        Deliveries of the systems will begin in 2023 and will last for about two years. Accordingly, the expenditures from the military budget will be stretched over time. An important part of the agreement was the participation of Czech industry. Prague wants to transfer something to Czech companies. The truck system will use the locally produced Tatra 815-7 8 × 8 chassis. Other elements, probably, will also be purchased from local sources - this is the integration of communications, data transmission channels, etc. Well, what will happen next - we'll see. hi
        1. venik
          venik 13 December 2020 16: 54
          +1
          Quote: A. Privalov
          With the right approach to business, the purchase of four SPYDER batteries under the G2G agreement in the amount of $ 428 million is quite within the forces of the Czech military budget.

          =========
          So that's not what I was talking about .... Did you read it carefully? What was written: "....apply for the fight against MLRS missiles and artillery shells..... ". Here"what is the ficus"!!! Use to combat such (inexpensive by cost and massive on application) purposes are very not cheap Israeli complexes with missiles equipped with active RL GOS - a country like the Czech Republic - won't last long! Moreover, they themselves drank:
          Quote: A. Privalov
          purchase four (4!) SPYDER Batteries under $ 2 Million G428G Agreement
          .....
          WHAT IS only 4 batteries? This is not even enough to cover Prague! And how many missiles can they buy for this amount? That's what I was talking about!
          1. A. Privalov
            A. Privalov 13 December 2020 17: 11
            0
            Quote: venik
            To use very expensive Israeli missile systems equipped with active GOS radars to combat such (inexpensive and massively used) targets - a country like the Czech Republic will not last long!

            Don't read journalistic fantasies.

            Quote: venik
            WHAT IS only 4 batteries? This is not even enough to cover Prague! And how many missiles can they buy for this amount? That's what I was talking about!


            I am not aware of the reasons why the Czech Republic buys this or that weapon, in certain quantities. I also don’t know what and how they will cover. hi
            1. venik
              venik 13 December 2020 17: 49
              +1
              Quote: A. Privalov
              I am not aware of the reasons why the Czech Republic buys this or that weapon, in certain quantities. I also don’t know what and how they will cover.

              ========
              The question is not "what and how they will cover," but HOW MANY of these missiles can they buy!
              By the way, the cost of the latest versions of "Python-5" in "220 green"- seems suspicious low! Even $ 300 thousand for a missile defense system with an ARL of the GOS is suspiciously cheap, let alone 220 thousand ..... Something is wrong here! request
              1. A. Privalov
                A. Privalov 13 December 2020 18: 47
                +2
                Quote: venik
                HOW MANY of these missiles can they buy!
                Even $ 300 thousand for a missile defense system with an ARL of the GOS is suspiciously cheap, let alone 220 thousand ..... Something is wrong here!


                Five per million including shipping. This is a markdown. End of the season. lol
                1. venik
                  venik 13 December 2020 19: 27
                  +1
                  Quote: A. Privalov
                  Five per million including shipping. This is a markdown. End of the season.

                  =========
                  Are they selling at discounts? belay Where? Why didn't they tell me? Again, I missed it! crying
                  drinks
    3. Lara Croft
      Lara Croft 13 December 2020 21: 41
      0
      A. Privalov (Alexander Privalov)The systems named in the article, desired to be acquired, will require not only material resources, but also a change in a number of concepts, I am not ashamed of this expression - philosophical views on the form and manner of conducting military operations.

      The article is aimed at the economic justification for purchasing air defense systems from Israeli Jews and at the same time reducing and updating their tank fleet ...
      In service with the Czech Republic, taking into account the 120 T-72s stored in the warehouse and approx. 350 BMPs (Soviet and self-made on their basis) ...
      The structure of the Czech Army resembles the structure of the Hungarian Army, where German tanks and self-propelled guns were recently purchased ...
      For NATO, the allocation of one MBR from Hungary and the Czech Republic will be quite enough.
      Tanks and self-propelled guns will be purchased from the Germans ...
      In service with the Czech Army, there are already wheeled infantry fighting vehicles (102 units) of Austro-Czech production ...
  • carstorm 11
    carstorm 11 13 December 2020 06: 39
    +11
    Lord ... what nonsense ... what does the tank school have to do with it?) Aviation and art. generally do not care what kind of armored vehicles they have goals. From leopards or abrashek covered with a tornado, only burned-out hulls will remain exactly the same kaa and from 72
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 13 December 2020 11: 01
      +3
      That is, if this huge Tornado is not ditched earlier by a small rocket
      from a small drone. Right into the fighting compartment.
      This is what we saw in Karabakh.
      1. lelik613
        lelik613 13 December 2020 11: 23
        +5
        One thing for sure is that drones have won their place among weapons for a long period, like machine guns, hails and RPGs.
      2. carstorm 11
        carstorm 11 13 December 2020 11: 41
        +1
        If this drone is not knocked down by military air defense) or the control point is not hidden), then this is not about that)))
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 13 December 2020 13: 08
          +4
          The existing military air defense itself runs away and hides from drones,
          to survive.
          What we also saw in Karabakh. Moreover, the most modern
          military air defense.
          First, you need to change the military air defense.
          1. carstorm 11
            carstorm 11 13 December 2020 13: 22
            +6
            And why then do the Czechs need yours?) Also what would they run away and abandon the battlefield?))) Judging by your words, it can't do anything either)
            1. voyaka uh
              voyaka uh 13 December 2020 18: 19
              +2
              Israeli close air defenses are now feverishly reworking
              to counter drones. Problem: cost-effectiveness ratio.
              There are rockets confidently hitting drones, but they are too expensive
              for mass use. We need other means.
              Czechs have nothing, so even poorly adapted to drones
              Israeli air defense is a luxury for them.
          2. Albert1988
            Albert1988 13 December 2020 15: 48
            +2
            Quote: voyaka uh
            The existing military air defense itself runs away and hides from drones,
            to survive.

            For some reason, at the Khmeimim base, the military air defense is packing these drones in batches, but in Karabakh something was hiding, don't you think this is strange?
            1. voyaka uh
              voyaka uh 13 December 2020 18: 14
              +2
              "stacks these drones in batches" ////
              ----
              THESE drones have never attacked the base. Turks do not risk aggravating
              relations with Russia and do not transfer their drones to militants.
              Drones of this class see targets and attack from a distance of several
              kilometers. And the radars of the Shell cannot at such a distance
              aim their missiles at them.

              And in batches they are bringing down drones with Ali-Express with adhesive tape attached to them
              mines.
              1. Albert1988
                Albert1988 13 December 2020 18: 36
                +1
                Quote: voyaka uh
                THESE drones have never attacked the base.

                Yah? Is there evidence that it’s never been straight? The Turks, when they shot down our plane, what an aggravation they went ...
                Quote: voyaka uh
                Drones of this class see targets and attack from a distance of several
                kilometers.

                Attack, yes ...
                Quote: voyaka uh
                And the radars of the Shell cannot at such a distance
                aim their missiles at them.

                You just do not tell the calculations of shells and the developers that they "cannot" there, because I do not want anyone to look funny.
                And then - an air defense system for that and a system that there are many complexes and different ones, there are shells, and tori, and beeches (I'm not only talking about Khmeimim), and the S-300, S-400, and all this into a single system tied, transfers data to each other about what he sees, etc. etc.
                But buying a pair of shells, sticking them in the middle of a clear field at a distance of 5 times the range of their operation is NOT an air defense system ...
                Look - the Saudis "patriots" could not intercept the antediluvian Elbrus, because the hands are growing from the wrong place and the brains are located in the musculus gloteos area.

                Py.Sy .: Drones with ali-express, to which the bombs have "strapped" a conceived much more difficult target for radars than a bayraktar flying at high altitude ...
                1. OgnennyiKotik
                  OgnennyiKotik 13 December 2020 19: 11
                  -3
                  Quote: Albert1988
                  And then - the air defense system and the system that there are many complexes and different

                  That's it. And how many such systems are needed per km of the front? Who can afford it? Here is the outfit of the Khmeimim forces.

                  Joint air defense system consisting of:
                  • ZRPK short-range "Pantsir-S1";
                  • Osa-AKM short-range air defense system;
                  • S-125 "Pechora-2M";
                  • Buk-M2E medium-range air defense system;
                  • Long-range air defense system S-200VE "Vega";
                  • S-400 "Triumph".
                  • S-300FM "Fort-M" (missile cruisers "Moskva" and "Varyag" with combat service areas in the coastal waters of the eastern coast of the Mediterranean Sea).
                  • Electronic warfare "Krasukha-4".
                  1. Albert1988
                    Albert1988 13 December 2020 19: 34
                    +1
                    Quote: OgnennyiKotik
                    That's it. And how many such systems are needed per km of the front? Who can afford it? Here is the outfit of the Khmeimim forces.

                    They are fighting there far from fronts, they are fighting in Syria rather "hotbeds", so just such places of concentration of air defense can be afford, albeit not in such a volume - cruise missiles and "setles" still do not shoot down, but put several shells and the tori so that they cover each other, while blocking an important area, is quite within their power.
                    Moreover - no one canceled the readiness of this very air defense - if the crew is asleep, or went to prayer, then the hope is only for promising shells with artificial intelligence ...

                    For example, from a technical point of view, the Saudis have very little air defense, and the Soviet Elbruses, ancient as caprolite, could not intercept. Then amerskie specialists arrived and everything was fine. Also in Syria - at first the Turks burned everyone, they even got the air defense, then ours started organizing the local air defense - and everything suddenly became good ...
                    1. OgnennyiKotik
                      OgnennyiKotik 13 December 2020 19: 40
                      -5
                      Quote: Albert1988
                      then we started organizing local air defense - and everything suddenly became fine ...

                      Where does this tale come from? From the first to the last day of the conflict with the participation of Turkey, UAVs were flying. They stopped inflicting massive strikes only after the signing of the ceasefire agreement, and there were sporadic strikes after.
                      1. Albert1988
                        Albert1988 13 December 2020 19: 52
                        +2
                        Quote: OgnennyiKotik
                        Where does this tale come from?

                        You will read fairy tales in children's books.
                        Quote: OgnennyiKotik
                        From the first to the last day of the conflict with the participation of Turkey, UAVs were flying.

                        They flew, only at first they flew only for reconnaissance purposes, then, as the Turks decided to help "theirs", the drums also began to fly, but when the Syrians, with the help of our kicks, began to somehow pay attention to the air defense, they continued to fly, but not for long , the drone takes off, and then does not land))))
                      2. OgnennyiKotik
                        OgnennyiKotik 13 December 2020 20: 11
                        -3
                        Here is the news and video from that time. If the memory is short.

                        At the talks on March 5 in Moscow, the presidents of Russia and Turkey reached an agreement to establish a truce in the conflict zone


                        Turkey showed footage of delivering a massive attack on SAA in Idlib
                        February 28 2020


                        https://topwar.ru/168446-turcija-pokazala-kadry-nanesenija-massirovannogo-udar-po-saa-v-idlibe.html

                        Turkish army hits airfield east of Aleppo and shells Kurdish cities
                        February 29 2020


                        https://topwar.ru/168467-tureckaja-armija-udarila-po-ajerodromu-k-vostoku-ot-aleppo-i-obstreljali-kurdskie-goroda.html

                        Turkish UAVs hit the airfield in Hama. Russia does not guarantee security for Turkish Air Force over Syria
                        March 2 2020


                        https://topwar.ru/168518-tureckie-bpla-nanesli-udar-po-ajerodromu-v-hame-rf-ne-garantiruet-bezopasnost-dlja-vvs-turcii-nad-siriej.html

                        Syria, 28 April: Turkish UAVs hit militants who were previously supported


                        https://topwar.ru/170685-sirija-28-aprelja-v-idlibe-konflikt-mezhdu-turciej-i-dzhihadistami.html

                        Turkish drones attacked Syrian army positions in Serakib
                        23 2020 June


                        https://topwar.ru/172417-tureckie-bespilotniki-nanesli-udar-po-pozicijam-armii-sirii-v-rajone-serakiba.html

                        Video from February 29

                        Video from March 1

                        Video from March 3
                      3. Albert1988
                        Albert1988 13 December 2020 20: 40
                        +2
                        What exactly do these videos illustrate? That the shooting was there for a long time? So it still is ...
                        It was about the use of drones, which at first scared everyone, and then somehow all the victorious reports came to naught, as soon as the drones began to fall.
                        And art has worked there, works and will work - no air defense will save from it ...

                        Py. Sy - videos for February 29 and March XNUMX are identical, moreover, there is no indication that they are working with a drone, so modern art can be beaten, by the way, it is much more terrible in this regard, and in the same Karabakh, "ordinary" Russian tornadoes inflicted much more damage to the enemy than the same bayraktars.
                      4. OgnennyiKotik
                        OgnennyiKotik 13 December 2020 21: 02
                        -3
                        Did you shoot the video? laughing the March 3 video shows MAM-L strikes.
                        News from March 2
                        From the province of Hama, reports have come that Turkish strike drones are already active in the airspace of this part of Syria. According to the latest data, UAVs of the Turkish armed forces attacked the positions of the SAA at the local airfield. According to some reports, the anti-aircraft installations used to protect the facility are damaged.

                        If they cleared the air so well, could they really not defend their airfield? And it was the UAV that delivered the strikes.
                        The fact that starting from March 3-4, the UAV activity decreased, I agree, the only reason was the principled agreement on a ceasefire, which officially began on the night of March 4-5, and not the fabulous air defense.

                        Have come up with a fairy tale and believe in it. In reality, 4 UAVs fell (there is no evidence that their ground air defense was shot down), the Turks in response shot down the Su-24 and L-39. True, more than 50 tanks, armored vehicles, artillery and the Syrian MLRS were destroyed, but who counts this "trifle". The main thing 2 Anki and 2 Bayraktar fell, they called this great "cleansing" of the sky of Idlib and rejoice.
                      5. Albert1988
                        Albert1988 13 December 2020 21: 11
                        +2
                        Quote: OgnennyiKotik
                        Did you shoot the video?

                        Drone-spotter arts, they are used by everyone who has brains in place, including even the Donbass militias)
                        Quote: OgnennyiKotik
                        If they cleaned the air so well, could they really not defend their airfield?

                        It depends on what worked on this airfield, if sixteen from a long distance, then obviously the shells will not help.
                        Quote: OgnennyiKotik
                        The fact that starting from March 3-4, the UAV activity decreased, I agree, the only reason was the principled agreement on a ceasefire, which officially began on the night of March 4-5, and not the fabulous air defense.

                        And why did art continue to work after March 5th? And somehow not much weaker than before?
                        Quote: OgnennyiKotik
                        In reality, 4 UAVs fell

                        Ugum, it's like "in reality":
                        Quote: OgnennyiKotik
                        True, more than 50 tanks, armored vehicles, artillery and Syrian MLRS were destroyed

                        Exclusively from Turkish propaganda, and most importantly - how were they destroyed? Bayraktar or art?
                        Quote: OgnennyiKotik
                        The main thing 2 Anki and 2 Bayraktar fell, they called this great "cleansing" of the sky of Idlib and rejoice.

                        Who told you that only?
                        Quote: OgnennyiKotik
                        there is no confirmation that their ground air defense was shot down

                        Ugums, they themselves fell, broke ...
                        Quote: OgnennyiKotik
                        Have come up with a fairy tale and believe in it.

                        Into fairy tales. so far, only you, independent ones, believe here ...
                      6. OgnennyiKotik
                        OgnennyiKotik 13 December 2020 21: 19
                        -3
                        Quote: Albert1988
                        And why did art continue to work after March 5th? And somehow not much weaker than before?

                        Lies, the fighting practically stopped, there were only single battles and strikes.
                        Quote: Albert1988
                        the main thing - how were they destroyed? Bayraktar or art?

                        And Bayraktar and art and other means. The video of MAM-L strikes is complete.
                        Quote: Albert1988
                        Who told you that only?

                        Well, prove how many storytellers you are here.
                        Quote: Albert1988
                        Ugums, they themselves fell, broke ...

                        Some broke, some of the operator's error, some shot down planes / helicopters, some were shot down by air defense (there is a video of 1 case).
                      7. Albert1988
                        Albert1988 13 December 2020 21: 40
                        +1
                        Quote: OgnennyiKotik
                        video of 1 case is

                        And who just wrote that no?
                        Quote: OgnennyiKotik
                        Well, prove how many storytellers you are here.

                        Fairy tale, so far there is only one - "about the invulnerable bayraktar", which is actively promoted by two parties - the Turks, they, of course, sell this bayraktar, so they advertise it as much as possible (in the same Karabakh, drones inflicted an order of magnitude less damage than art and MLRS, but they were promoting them), and the "self-stylednonezalezhnevtsy" who bought these same bayraktras due to the virtual complete loss of conventional military aviation, now tell everyone how cool it is.
                        Quote: OgnennyiKotik
                        Lies, the fighting practically stopped, there were only isolated battles and strikes.

                        Oha, he doesn't hawta something, oh yes, you write another caps - and so: LIES, it will be so good)
                        But in essence, why would it suddenly stop on such a triumphant note? The Turks went on the offensive with their bearded friends, the SAA was downright naughty with invulnerable bayraktar! And here on those! No, there is, of course, the assumption that from the fact that in some magical way from 30 to 80 professional Turkish military in that area went to another world by violent methods in an extremely short period of time and there was every reason to fear that this was not the limit.
                        But still? Probably from the fact that the offensive was choking - and the Syrian air defense finally woke up and the beginning of the apparatus to land actively, and the response began to arrive, including directly at the Turks?

                        And yes - there is nothing fabulous in air defense, any modern air defense system (excluding, perhaps, MANPADS) will be good at grounding drones, which, in fact, are created with an eye to the fact that the enemy will shoot them down, only the pilot will not die, and the material part much cheaper than in a manned vehicle.
  • Albert1988
    Albert1988 13 December 2020 15: 47
    +2
    Quote: voyaka uh
    That is, if this huge Tornado is not ditched earlier by a small rocket
    from a small drone. Right into the fighting compartment.
    This is what we saw in Karabakh.

    And so that he does not ditch, there must be a well-built air defense system, and not randomly stuck here and there separate installations, and absolutely without understanding their tasks and capabilities ...
  • Konnick
    Konnick 13 December 2020 06: 40
    +12
    The author forgot to mention another type of UAV, a distraction. To identify enemy air defense systems and destroy the ammunition of expensive anti-aircraft missiles, An-2 aircraft were used in an unmanned version. According to the specified data, 16 maize workers were mistaken for various types of combat aircraft and, accordingly, shot down. Here is a new method of warfare that has never been used before. In the Azerbaijani or Turkish army, there were clever heads who have these not only for wearing hats.
    1. bobwings
      bobwings 13 December 2020 08: 19
      +3
      Considering that An 2 was purchased long before the war, and close cooperation with the Turks began in the last year (the same Bayraktars were purchased in the summer of 20), then it was Azerbaijani heads. That, given my personal close acquaintance with many representatives of this people, is not at all surprising.
      1. iouris
        iouris 13 December 2020 10: 23
        +2
        It's kind of ... racism.
    2. Jacket in stock
      Jacket in stock 13 December 2020 09: 10
      +5
      Quote: Konnick
      Here is a new way of warfare that has never been used before.

      Well, bum, the use of false targets began long before Karabakh, and even before the advent of radars, in the century of some sort ... before the birth of Christ.
      It's just that the Azeri / Turks had the cheapest, which was not a pity for slaughter, were the same dilapidated maize.
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 13 December 2020 11: 04
        +8
        These corn workers have gone through a very difficult conversion into drones.
        Not "turned out", but ahead of time were upgraded and tested.
        This indicates a high level of preparation of Azerbaijan for the war.
        1. OgnennyiKotik
          OgnennyiKotik 13 December 2020 21: 53
          -2
          Quote: voyaka uh
          This indicates a high level of preparation of Azerbaijan for the war.

          Armenia lost four of the six Russian-made Tor-M2KM anti-aircraft missile systems (the most modern models) deployed in Karabakh in the first 15 days of the war, and half of the entire NKR air defense was destroyed in 15 minutes on September 27.

          This was stated by the former secretary of the Security Council of the unrecognized Nagorno-Karabakh Republic Samvel Babayan.
          According to him, after the destruction of the "Thors", four more complexes were sent to the combat zone.

          Of the six Buk air defense systems, only one was in working order. In the first minutes of the war, units of the Azerbaijani Armed Forces destroyed 10 Osa air defense systems and one S-300 air defense system.

          Quote:
          "There was no weapon. The air defense was at zero. There were 6 TORs, of which 4 were destroyed in the first 15 days. Then they sent 4 more, which can provide a maximum of 45 km. Of the 6 BUK-5 units were inoperative, a repair team was waiting from Moscow to to be used by the 10th. "
  • rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 13 December 2020 07: 03
    +9
    As a result of the war in Karabakh, an analysis of military operations with its own conclusions began in almost all countries. Many rushed to buy UAVs, believing that this is a panacea for a possible defeat and inflicting a "mighty" strike on the enemy's b / t. Someone correctly believes that the army simply needs to be equipped with new types of weapons, train personnel and specialists well. Well, the Czechs naturally criticized the Russian (Soviet) armored vehicles without thinking that the vehicles are controlled by people and the outcome of the battle largely depends on their skills. And if you do not engage in the army for many years, resting on old laurels (Armenia), then the result of the war will be predictable. Can they specifically explain the better NATO tanks of modern Russian tanks?
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 13 December 2020 11: 08
      +7
      "Russian (Soviet) armored vehicles without thinking that the vehicles are controlled by people and the outcome of the battle largely depends on their skills" ////
      ----
      No tank crew skills (neither Russian nor Israeli)
      save from drone attacks.
      Or the tank will automatically save itself with the help of the KAZ. So far no one
      not implemented.
      Or you need to destroy the drones before using armored vehicles.
      War in Karabakh raised issues that no army in the world has
      no answers. Until.
      1. Boris Chernikov
        Boris Chernikov 13 December 2020 11: 45
        -5
        Well, so far "there is no answer in any army" our advisers, like the Syrians, taught how to shoot down these drones in Syria near Idlib
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 13 December 2020 13: 13
          +5
          It's just that the air defense systems operated from outside Idlib.
          And under agreements with Russia, Turkish drones are allowed to fight
          just over Idlib. A manned Turkish aircraft is prohibited.
          If Turkish drones began hunting for military air defense in neighboring provinces,
          would be the same Karabakh.
          1. Salty
            Salty 13 December 2020 13: 18
            0
            Quote: voyaka uh
            If Turkish drones began hunting for military air defense in neighboring provinces, ...

            ... then, starting with the second, they would not have reached Idlib. IMHO, yes.
          2. Boris Chernikov
            Boris Chernikov 13 December 2020 13: 36
            -2
            1) what should they do in the neighboring provinces, 2) an interesting situation "they were allowed to fight only in Idlib" and that is why they were shot down there, that the Turks eventually curtailed their use, but if they launched them into other provinces where it is forbidden to fly , then they would be crazy .. your logic is strange .. would it be different? when used in other places, everything would depend on the presence of air defense - if the air defense would have been immediately, they would have started to shoot them down, if not, then they would have pulled up and similarly would start to drop to the ground
            1. OgnennyiKotik
              OgnennyiKotik 13 December 2020 18: 52
              -5
              Quote: Boris Chernikov
              that the Turks ended up curtailing their use

              Lying. From the first to the last day of the conflict with Turkey's participation, they flew. They stopped inflicting massive strikes only after the signing of the ceasefire agreement. At the same time inflicting infernal losses on the Syrian troops.
              1. Boris Chernikov
                Boris Chernikov 13 December 2020 23: 11
                -2
                and what actually forced them to stop striking? and yes, if the losses were "hellish", then how did it happen that the Syrian troops, in fact, from the moment the drones were used, did not retreat to previously held positions, but pushed the militants even further ... and yes, apply They just stopped them after tangible losses and only after that agreed to negotiations, although before that there was only one condition - the CAA should return to its old positions ..
                1. OgnennyiKotik
                  OgnennyiKotik 13 December 2020 23: 13
                  -3
                  Quote: Boris Chernikov
                  what actually made them stop hitting?

                  A ceasefire agreement signed by Putin and Erdogan.
                  1. Boris Chernikov
                    Boris Chernikov 13 December 2020 23: 17
                    -2
                    is it in the style of Erdogan felt sorry for the Syrians? or he went to negotiations after the epic with the UAV ceased to be as beautiful as he wanted .. and about the "hellish" losses .. do not tell me why with the "hellish" losses, although what are they "hellish" when it comes to storming the fortified area, the Turks were unable to knock out the Syrians and they did not even make little progress?
                    1. OgnennyiKotik
                      OgnennyiKotik 13 December 2020 23: 28
                      -4
                      Losses in the post below. What Putin gave for stopping the war and Serakib we will find out later. There is an option that Libya and / or Karabakh were part of the deal. We behaved very toothlessly there.
                      And so the Turks began to expand hostilities towards the end of the conflict, they began to bomb the airfields of the Syrians. In fact, the Syrian group near Idlib was ground up. Erdogan doesn't care about strangers or his losses, so he was given something else.
                      From the province of Hama, reports have come that Turkish strike drones are already active in the airspace of this part of Syria. According to the latest data, UAVs of the Turkish armed forces attacked the positions of the SAA at the local airfield. According to some reports, the anti-aircraft installations used to protect the facility are damaged.
                      With the help of long-range artillery, Turkish troops fired on the western suburbs of Aleppo. In particular, a blow was inflicted on the Al-Zahra quarter. And on the M5 highway, several units of Syrian government forces' armored vehicles were destroyed from the air.

                      The day before, two Turkish Air Force F-16 fighters shot down two Su-24 Syrian Air Force bombers.

                      News from March 2
                      https://topwar.ru/168518-tureckie-bpla-nanesli-udar-po-ajerodromu-v-hame-rf-ne-garantiruet-bezopasnost-dlja-vvs-turcii-nad-siriej.html
                      1. Boris Chernikov
                        Boris Chernikov 13 December 2020 23: 37
                        -3
                        1) these losses on the part of the militants are not accurate, because only those losses that were recorded on the ground in the video are considered "confirmed", not to mention the fact that the "main combat unit" of the militants in the end were technical personnel, which for some reason were not accounted for in losses .. and yes .. the Turks have repeatedly stated that they will not stop until the CAA returns to their old positions, but for some reason they eventually changed their minds and agreed in fact to give everything that the Syrians reached at that time and yes .. "the Syrian group "these are 10 tanks and 10 BMPs? Oh yeah .. but it's good if" the SAA group was ground and defeated, "and the UAVs" fought a super duper and crushed everyone, "then how did it happen that instead of intensifying the battles , to finish off the SAA grouping and knock them out at least to their old positions, the Turks began hysterically to hit the airfields and at all times rushed to negotiations? Do you know why? because the Turks drove a bunch of equipment and troops into Idlib and at that time they had very good a situation was drawn that the stream of coffins from the Turkish mi military from a thin stream will turn into a full-fledged river .. Actually, that's why they agreed to all conditions with patrols and a new demarcation line. and yes .. "4 uavs" are what fell on the territory of the CAA and what is documented, but no less uavs fell on the territory of the militants, by the way, they themselves posted photos and videos of the Turkish UAV, but then the militants were forbidden to post this without checking. ...
          3. OgnennyiKotik
            OgnennyiKotik 13 December 2020 18: 49
            0
            Quote: voyaka uh
            would be the same Karabakh.

            And he was. The losses were hellish in Idlib. Photo / video data
            19.02-05.03
            Syria 54 units

            10 (T55 / 62/62)
            10 (BMP 1)
            17 (2S1 / 3)
            3 (IVECO TRAKKER 420 + M46 130MM)
            9 (BM21, HM-20)
            2 (ZSU-23-4)
            1 (72V6-E2 Carapace)
            1 (Su-24)
            1 (L-39)

            Turkey + "apposition" 12 units
            4 (M60) +1 (T55)
            2 (GZNP) +1 (BMP 1)
            2 (Anka-s)
            2 (Bayraktar TB2)
  • Vladimir Volk
    Vladimir Volk 13 December 2020 07: 06
    -7
    Laundering BABIES
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 13 December 2020 11: 11
      +16
      Congratulations! You have been awarded the site award for the most:
      1) short
      2) common
      3) dumb
      - comment. fellow
  • Thrifty
    Thrifty 13 December 2020 07: 06
    +5
    The Czechs made only one correct conclusion - the presence of air defense over the battlefield should be active and constant, and everything else in the article is simply banal Sovietophobia, because it is not the iron itself that wins, but those who control this iron, who maintains it. Western weapons systems are more complex than the former Soviet ones. They will not stand such a sloven attitude towards themselves, unlike the technology of the times of the USSR, simple and unpretentious, but proved to be effective in a huge number of wars and conflicts.
  • Doccor18
    Doccor18 13 December 2020 07: 07
    0
    Most armored vehicles of Soviet origin have low (and decreasing) combat value on the modern battlefield

    Really? After all, only 50 years have passed since the beginning of its design ...
    .. considers CZDefence, pointing out that its modernization can only be considered a temporary solution ...

    Serious edition wassat does not suffer from a disorder of logic ..
  • Doliva63
    Doliva63 13 December 2020 07: 12
    0
    Should Czechs evaluate the "philosophy of Soviet armored vehicles"? wassat
  • unhappy
    unhappy 13 December 2020 07: 55
    +2
    The analyst lives in a parallel universe, there was a developed Czechoslovakia - the Czech Republic remained essentially a limitrophe. Where will these dreamers find money for modern weapons systems, we are not talking about single samples, but about rearmament of the army, aviation and air defense!
    It remains to wait for "gifts" from the sponsor, like boats for Ukraine))
  • Fedorovich
    Fedorovich 13 December 2020 08: 12
    +4
    Does it mean "we should urgently buy at exorbitant prices rusty" Abrams "from the owners?
  • oracul
    oracul 13 December 2020 08: 24
    +1
    And long ago the Czech Republic became a specialist in military affairs. Better to brew beer. Apart from the dirty trick that the White Czechs arranged in Russia on their way home through Vladivostok, I don’t remember any success in the military field. Is that Jan Zizka in ancient times.
    1. pyagomail.ru
      pyagomail.ru 13 December 2020 11: 00
      0
      The last brave warrior among the Czechs was "the brave soldier Schweik". And so, of course, it would be interesting to know the opinion of the Papuans on this topic.
    2. MrFox
      MrFox 13 December 2020 19: 02
      0
      Tesla Pardubice designed radars for the Soviet Air Force. Before the war, the level of technical development of the Czech Republic was higher than that of Germany.

      So with military affairs in the Czech Republic everything is ok.
  • hhhhhhh
    hhhhhhh 13 December 2020 08: 31
    +7
    The philosophy of the Czechs to grovel continues. They celebrate 1968 every year and not once the German occupation.
    It was necessary in 1968 to roll the dissatisfied into the asphalt
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 13 December 2020 08: 35
      -2
      Quote: hhhhhhh
      It was necessary in 1968 to roll the dissatisfied into the asphalt

      And there were many of them, dissatisfied.
      1. PSih2097
        PSih2097 13 December 2020 09: 26
        +2
        Quote: Mordvin 3
        And there were many of them, dissatisfied.

        there were a lot in China too, and then what? Part of it was rolled into asphalt in Tiananmen Square, the rest shut up ...
      2. hhhhhhh
        hhhhhhh 13 December 2020 09: 59
        -4
        There were many dissatisfied. Councils of Jews are not taken to the camps, and the property of those who survived the Holocaust is returned. It is impossible to work for the Reich for the reich marks, the Soviets overwhelmed the 1000-year-old Reich.
  • rocket757
    rocket757 13 December 2020 08: 42
    +3
    In short, they invented the wheel or discovered "America" ​​.... outdated equipment, it is necessary to replace it with a new one and equip the troops with new weapons and infrastructure to support the combat process.
    In general, that's EVERYTHING.
  • evgen1221
    evgen1221 13 December 2020 08: 57
    +1
    Garbage and not an article, everything is in a heap with the promise that we are byaki again. In general, the war is slipping back into positioning, only now it is not art and tanks are driving but an UAV.
  • Konnick
    Konnick 13 December 2020 09: 12
    0
    The tandem self-propelled guns and UAVs completely replace the tank. The tank serves to break into the enemy's defense, but if the defense is equipped with anti-tank weapons, then the use of tanks threatens with heavy losses. Even if we turn to the history of the Second World War and recall the assault on the Seelow Heights, there the tanks collided with an unsuppressed anti-tank defense system on the opposite slopes of the heights. The use of air reconnaissance to determine the positions of the batteries was impossible due to low clouds, the use of ground attack aircraft for suppression from low altitudes simply threatened the destruction of attack aircraft with small-caliber anti-aircraft artillery, which saturates the defense lines. The use of artillery across the squares did not yield results. Overcast clouds prevented the use of bombardment from a height. This was the reason for the large losses of armored vehicles and personnel during the Berlin operation.
    With regard to the defense lines in Karabakh, built on the principles of defense of previous wars, the use of subtle reconnaissance UAVs turned out to be possible from low altitudes, and even with the guidance of self-propelled guns at targets, not just artillery, namely self-propelled guns, which can very quickly change position, unlike towed artillery. From an economic point of view, using a bundle of reconnaissance UAVs and self-propelled guns is cheaper than a tank with all its KAZs, curtains and super-armor.
    1. Sling cutter
      Sling cutter 13 December 2020 11: 23
      +4
      Quote: Konnick
      The tandem self-propelled guns and UAVs completely replace the tank.

      I didn't understand anything, but it was interesting request
      Why should a UAV be linked to art at all? UAV is a barrage ammunition, it will deliver itself where necessary, and an operator with modern technologies can generally be on another continent. Tanks are generally a coffin for the crew and in fact a piece of expensive iron, which is two more less trained fighter will be burned in a couple of minutes.
      Now guys, the wars will be completely different and in general we need to tie "L'Adieu aux armes" to wars.
      1. Konnick
        Konnick 13 December 2020 12: 30
        +1
        The primary task of the UAV is reconnaissance and guidance. Accordingly, the replacement of artillery reconnaissance and aircraft controllers, and of the adjustment of artillery fire or the guidance of drone UAVs.
        And the replacement consists in the fact that without entering into visual contact, the stationary defense of the enemy, strong points and batteries, as well as air defense and anti-tank equipment with high accuracy and much more powerful than a tank, and sometimes much more accurate ammunition, are destroyed. Long arm tactics.
    2. MrFox
      MrFox 13 December 2020 19: 04
      0
      The right approach. It remains to wait when it comes to the generals and will be reflected in the combat manuals
    3. Bobrick
      Bobrick 13 December 2020 19: 05
      +2
      The tandem self-propelled guns and UAVs completely replace the tank

      How's that? Or should the infantry not advance on enemy positions? Or do UAVs detect all 100% of the defending side's strike assets? Or have the self-propelled guns learned to hit all opponents in the trenches?
      Will there be an advantage in the air over the battlefield (even the Soviet army had an incredible saturation of air defense, there were tens of thousands of Strela-2m alone)? Does the enemy have the ability to use electronic warfare to detect UAV control points and strike them with operational missiles? And there is a whole bunch of everything that a prepared and trained enemy can put up.

      So here's a surprise from the Great Patriotic War - the launch frame is called.

      Throw branches and send a signal at the right moment (for 2 seconds while it fires, nothing will work for either the ACS or the UAV, and we do not have Karabakh with bare hills), but with the price of modern electronic components such as arduino and servomotors Also, aiming is accurate (in the sense of any desired square) can be done using ordinary wires. And so something, but any BMP under artillery fire survives much worse than a tank.

      In short, as UAVs were a means of fighting a technically weaker or less prepared enemy, they remained. If only because light UAVs will not live for a long time due to the low flight altitude, and large ones require full-fledged airfield maintenance, which will definitely be questionable if the enemy has an OTRK.
  • ficus2003
    ficus2003 13 December 2020 09: 16
    +1
    Question to the editor: What do they think in Burkino Faso? And in Ethiopia?
  • iouris
    iouris 13 December 2020 10: 25
    0
    "The philosophy of Soviet armored vehicles" ended with the dissolution of the OVD. Soon, forty years have passed.
    1. lelik613
      lelik613 13 December 2020 11: 30
      +1
      You all understand "Philosophy" - two caterpillars and a cannon between them. Do they want to cancel the first or the second? They want to sell their "Dana" and all "philosophy". The cabinet on casters is even easier to break through than tracked vehicles, without a chance of recovery.
  • Senka naughty
    Senka naughty 13 December 2020 10: 51
    +1
    The opinion of the great tank builders Chekhov is very important for us, thank you.
    1. iouris
      iouris 13 December 2020 11: 34
      +6
      The Skoda factories produced (for Hitler) more tanks than the UK industry produced. Czechs are masters of making Skodas for Russians.
  • Boris Chernikov
    Boris Chernikov 13 December 2020 11: 35
    0
    The military budget of Armenia is 0,6 billion dollars ... the budget of Azerbaijan is 1,9 billion dollars ...
  • KCA
    KCA 13 December 2020 12: 25
    +4
    The Czechs who fell under Austria-Hungary and then under Germany without a fight will talk about the war? They were always pecked at by everyone who could reach
  • Scorpio05
    Scorpio05 13 December 2020 14: 04
    +6
    Quote: Boris Chernikov
    "too little" .. how much? 3,5 thousand air defense systems of various types .. can you tell who has enough of them then? Az-n won in fact at the expense of the wunderwafle in the face of the UAV, and the Armenians first bought rotten air defense systems, then squeezed to introduce more modern systems, which led to an increase in losses, because Pashinyan did not need victory from a word at all

    Not true.
    The following is known from open sources: First, UAVs are responsible for only 30% of the destroyed Armenian equipment. The Armenian Armed Forces, their equipment, strongpoints and combat assets were mostly knocked out by the artillery of the Az. Armed Forces, but of course UAVs were used for correction and not only them, as well as the Azerbaijani RDGs, which gave target designation, penetrated far into the rear of the Armenian Armed Forces. It was also important to use modern means of destruction, but at least the same modernized Czech self-propelled guns Dana (excellent rapid-fire and accurate weapons) and the Czech MLRS "Vampire", high-precision ammunition.
    Secondly, the cities of Shusha and Hadrut took the mountain units, RDG and SPN of Azerbaijan without the help of the UAV. Thus, the main operations in Karabakh were carried out without the use of drones and even large-caliber armored vehicles and artillery. One can especially note the capture of the impregnable Shushi by the Azerbaijani special forces, carried out without the use of heavy weapons at all, using only portable small arms and knives. According to the first defense minister Samvel Babayan (secretary of the Security Council of Nagorno-Karabakh), Armenia did everything it could and sent to Karabakh everyone it could send, including. and almost all of the Armenian police, but it did not help them.
  • Growlers
    Growlers 13 December 2020 15: 33
    +1
    The Czechs know how to make good quality equipment, so to speak, of "average European" quality, but excuse the warriors of them, and military theorists, like a bullet from a known substance
  • zenion
    zenion 13 December 2020 16: 17
    +1
    Of course, Soviet armored vehicles are outdated. Rubber cannot stand for long. Here I have had a bicycle for about ten years and it stood one summer in the sun. All the tires on the wheels are cracked. And then tanks made of rubber, waste galoshes, stood under the hot sun for 30 years. It's amazing that the tracks did not fall down. But the rubber will not disappear. You can put the tanks in the solution and make condoms out of them. I do not recommend sticking shells into the solution, in the same place, as an explosive, matches are used, which can ignite and cause a fire. The outer shell of the sleeve and so on is also made of rubber, only the damaging substance is made of nails, the heads of the nails are made of rubber. Such shells are used only in Africa. How did they get to Armenia, probably through pull?
  • Klingon
    Klingon 13 December 2020 16: 29
    0
    K2 is crazy how expensive it is, but it is stuffed with all sorts of gadgets, but also what complicates its development and maintenance, and in fact K2 is Löpik converted by Koreans, so that the Czechs (Slovaks) have an alao in their hands wassat
  • Kuz
    Kuz 13 December 2020 17: 13
    +17
    It is foolish to compare the confrontation of weapons of different generations fool
  • Victor Tsenin
    Victor Tsenin 13 December 2020 17: 18
    0
    > possible adaptation of the South Korean MBT K2

    Well, that K2 is much more resistant to a strike from a UAV, or is it invisible to optics or radar? It is not clear what they attracted, they thought for a long time)
  • rotfuks
    rotfuks 13 December 2020 17: 37
    0
    In the message of this Czech publication, direct recommendations to switch to military standards of one state. Or did it seem to me?
  • Dzafdet
    Dzafdet 13 December 2020 18: 04
    -1
    They all do not understand one thing: our doctrine is built on the use of tactical nuclear weapons. We strike, and only then we attack. That is, the Azerbaijani army was destroyed in three days, and then blows followed in depth and that's it. So Czechs need to sit quietly, like a mouse under a broom ...
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 13 December 2020 19: 01
      0
      "our doctrine is built on the use of tactical nuclear weapons." ///
      ----
      Forgot to insert the word "was". smile
      The Soviet doctrine of war with NATO WAS built on the use of nuclear
      tactical weapons.
      And in local wars - like the Afghan one, for example, they worked as usual.
      And now in local wars it will be necessary to get by with the most common weapons.
      The same T-72, Grad and BMP.
      And only with an American massive air attack on Russian territory
      (if it follows) just nuclear retribution will be applied. Yars will fly.
  • Basarev
    Basarev 13 December 2020 18: 54
    -1
    True truth. It also makes sense for us to really think about it. They themselves are full of ancient Soviet rubbish.
  • Lara Croft
    Lara Croft 13 December 2020 21: 19
    0
    scouts should be purchased first, and then drones of other categories. At the same time, air defense should be strengthened, which should be equipped with C-UAS systems equipped with equipment for detecting, tracking (in various ranges) and destroying or jamming UAVs.

    Completely agree with this thesis ...
    Most armored vehicles of Soviet origin have low (and decreasing) combat value on the modern battlefield

    Completely disagree with this thesis ...
    The parties to the conflict in service were practically the same in their performance characteristics of VT, the whole point is in the military art of commanding the opposing sides and the method of using V and VT, l / s ...
    Azerbaijan was preparing for this war for 1/4 century, Armenia for these 1/4 centuries did nothing to retain the previously captured territory (part of it) ...
  • serezhasoldatow
    serezhasoldatow 13 December 2020 22: 09
    -1
    Whose cow would moan ... They are turning into a second world of Ukraine.
  • Vasyan1971
    Vasyan1971 14 December 2020 01: 14
    +1
    It's funny to hear such things from the Czechs. When was the last time they really fought?
  • georggy
    georggy 14 December 2020 07: 26
    +1
    No philosophy.
    It is necessary that the hands do not grow out of the priests, and the head was in place, and not the priest.
  • Petrik66
    Petrik66 14 December 2020 09: 47
    +2
    Well, the Czechs know better. The glorious combat history of the Czech Armed Forces qualifies them. The analysis of the just ended war, based on propaganda videos from Youtub, the brave reports of the winners and the pitiful whining of the Armenians who received enchanting lyulya are also a serious source of information that Czech experts can analyze. I am looking forward to the results of the analysis of the Romanian and Bulgarian specialists.
  • Dzafdet
    Dzafdet 14 December 2020 10: 11
    0
    Quote: voyaka uh
    "our doctrine is built on the use of tactical nuclear weapons." ///
    ----
    Forgot to insert the word "was". smile
    The Soviet doctrine of war with NATO WAS built on the use of nuclear
    tactical weapons.
    And in local wars - like the Afghan one, for example, they worked as usual.
    And now in local wars it will be necessary to get by with the most common weapons.
    The same T-72, Grad and BMP.
    And only with an American massive air attack on Russian territory
    (if it follows) just nuclear retribution will be applied. Yars will fly.

    Don't pass your desire off as reality. Better read the statements of our leaders. NATO ships rub against the borders, airplanes fly, tanks pull up. In short, prepare for war. So you will get it right away and in full.
  • nonsense
    nonsense 14 December 2020 10: 42
    +2
    The Czech army just needs new tanks that offer higher levels of protection, firepower and mobility.

    laughing Why would the Czech army need tanks? or even so - why do Czechs need an army at all? - at parades it is possible to show specially dressed and trained fagots! - it will cost less ... EMNIP The last time the Czech army put up any resistance to the enemy was in the 15th century under the leadership of Jan Zizka!
  • Andycomm
    Andycomm 14 December 2020 11: 52
    0
    Well, uuu, Czechs are famous fighters. Only the most a bit worse than the Azeri Armenians. And analytics - what are you! Czechs will not tell lies, no.
  • Andrey Krasnoyarsky
    Andrey Krasnoyarsky 14 December 2020 12: 54
    0
    Czech couch generals declared Russian equipment obsolete and expressed confidence that if something happened, the brave Czech army would shower Russian tanks with beer bottles and pork fat.
  • tank64rus
    tank64rus 14 December 2020 14: 56
    -1
    And what is the difference between the "Black Panther" and the T-72 with the defeat in the upper projection. To develop and install KAZ capable of providing protection to the upper hemisphere. And where to install them, on which MBT or other armored vehicle, it makes no difference. The rest is from the evil one, the order is called.
  • Alexey Brylev
    Alexey Brylev 14 December 2020 15: 09
    0
    For missiles from drones, all tanks in the world are outdated if they are not covered with a good air defense system and electronic warfare. The Czechs will buy new tanks, most likely "Leopards" are not the first freshness. That is why they are promoting this topic about the "obsolescence" of Soviet tanks. Loot is knocked out of the treasury.
  • iz odessy
    iz odessy 14 December 2020 20: 23
    0
    the Czech army has enough small arms. How many were with them in the exercises - one thing is clear - they will not "fight for destruction" and never in the nearest available time. Hence, spending on something "extra-technological", a piece of bread and butter to someone from the budget
  • Vladimir Koshevoi
    Vladimir Koshevoi 14 December 2020 21: 43
    -1
    Anecdote to Czechs:
    "Moishe, do you like the way Caruso sings?
    -No, Naum sang it to me, I don't like it. "
    The states of the Czechs, Armenians, Azerbaijanis .., those are still "warriors".
  • Gregory Charnota
    Gregory Charnota 18 December 2020 07: 27
    -1
    NATO singers in their repertoire
  • ua1osm
    ua1osm 18 December 2020 14: 51
    +1
    Currently, tanks are at exactly the same stage of backwardness as battleships at sea during the WWII period. The battleships suffered a crushing defeat in the competition with the bomber aircraft, and disappeared. The same is expected for tanks (slow armored vehicles, very expensive and visible on the battlefield), besides, they are filled with explosives and are very vulnerable from this. The future belongs to UAVs, which will be improved due to new microelectronics and artificial intelligence. Therefore, tanks will also disappear from the battlefield.