Military Review

Hidden advantages of the Ukrainian "Alder-M" over "Tornado-S". How will the Tula gunsmiths answer?

67

Photo: APU / Facebook


In the 76th and 63rd years, the most famous employees of the Tula defense enterprise died - the head of the technology department Valery Alekseevich Maslov, who was awarded the "Honored Mechanical Engineer of the Russian Federation" badge, and Vadim Rashitovich Alyazedinov, the chief designer of multiple launch rocket systems. In this connection, the administration and the author's community of the network information and analytical publication "Tula news"Expresses its deepest condolences to the family and friends of the world-renowned masters in the field of domestic rocketry.

In the same turn, one cannot but reassure the fact that, being in the above positions of the only enterprise in the Russian Federation in the development of modern long-range multiple launch rocket systems, Valery Alekseevich and Vadim Rashitovich made a truly gigantic contribution to the development and launch of the production line of modernized controlled 300 -mm long-range rockets 9M544 and 9M549 for integration into the ammunition load of promising high-precision MLRS 9K515 "Tornado-S".

To date, the "tandem" of the above missiles provides the rocket artillery divisions (READ) of the Rocket Forces and Artillery of the Russian Armed Forces with the possibility of maintaining parity in hypothetical "counter-battery duels" with mobile MLRS of the M270 MLRS / M142 HIMARS family, which are actively entering service with the 8th mixed artillery brigade "Alexandru Ioan Cuza" of the Romanian army and artillery regiments of the Polish army and equipped with modern 227-mm guided missiles M30A1 GMLRS, M31A1 GUMLRS "Unitary" and GMLRS + with a range of 90 to 120 km.

Advanced strapdown inertial navigation systems and aerodynamic controls of the promising 9M544 guided missiles in Tula will open up new horizons for combat crews of the Tornado-S high-precision MLRS


Unlike the 300-mm corrected missiles of an earlier modification with the 9M528 index, which have a range of only 90 km and are equipped with low-power tail gas-dynamic flight trajectory correction modules (pitch and yaw control) in the ascending and marching sections, promising guided missiles 9M544 and 9M549 are capable of inflicting decapitating strikes against the command and staff infrastructure and mechanized units of the enemy on the march at a distance of about 120 km with a circular probable deviation (CEP) of 5-10 m, surpassing in this parameter both the 9M528 corrected URSs and the advanced American M30A1 missiles and GMLRS +.

The increase in the range by 33% was achieved, firstly, thanks to the equipment of the above modifications of the projectiles with nose modules of aerodynamic rudders (their bearing surface significantly increased the aerodynamic quality of the URS, providing the effect of the so-called "sub-gliding"). Secondly, by integrating into their on-board radio electronic equipment promising blocks of the 9B706.1 control system, which have strapdown inertial navigation systems (SINS) SN398M based on computing units / BI616 on-board computer, as well as angular velocity and linear acceleration sensors from Scientific and Production center of automation named after N.A. Pilyugin ".

High-performance computing units BI616, based on the data of the above-mentioned linear acceleration measurement sensors (represented by "dry" pendulum accelerometers) and fiber-optic angular velocity sensors, as well as GPS / GLONASS modules (also integrated into the architecture of 9B706.1 blocks), carry out software construction the most optimal quasi-ballistic flight path of missiles 9M544 / 549.

At the same time, the software algorithms for the functioning of the BI616 computing units provide for a noticeable increase in the length of the marching section of the trajectory passing in the rarefied upper layers of the stratosphere (20-35 km), due to which the aerodynamic drag coefficient of 9M544 / 549 rockets continues to remain minimal, ensuring the preservation of a high supersonic flight speed up to the terminal section of the trajectory with a parallel increase in range up to 120 km (in comparison with the early modification of the 300-mm 9M528 corrected projectile).


The placement of blocks of aerodynamic rudders in the bows of missiles of the 9M544 / 549 family assumes the implementation of the aerodynamic "canard" scheme. Source: bastion-karpenko.ru

It is thanks to the use of specialized modes of operation of the BI616 computing units, as well as equipping with advanced X-shaped aerodynamic rudders with high bearing qualities, that the 9M544 / 549 guided missiles were able to reach a range of 120 km, despite the mass similar to the 9M528 missiles (815 and 828 kg versus 800 kg, respectively), causing the use of similar solid propellant rocket charges.

As for the minimum circular probable deviation (CEP) of 9M542 / 544 projectiles, which is no more than 7-10 m (versus 150 m for projectiles of the 9M55F / K and 9M528 families), this indicator was achieved, firstly, thanks to orders of magnitude more filigree (accurate) operation of the above-described strapdown inertial navigation system CH398M in comparison with standard electronic time devices of 9M55F / K and 9M528 projectiles. Secondly, through the use of GPS / GLONASS radio navigation modules, which are not in the architecture of the avionics of the 9M55F / K and 9M528 projectiles). Thirdly, due to the possibility of using aerodynamic control surfaces in the terminal section of the trajectory (immediately before hitting the target), while the tail gas-dynamic nozzle blocks of the early projectiles provided correction only on the ascending branch of the trajectory.

Technological features and advantages of control systems of Ukrainian high-precision rockets "Alder-M"


Against the background of the embodiment "in hardware" of the above technological solutions, initiated by the teams of specialists from the Tula NPO "Splav" and the "Research and Production Center for Automation named after N.А. Pilyugin "within the framework of the formation of the project of the promising high-precision MLRS 9K515" Tornado-S ", cannot but attract the close attention of the expert and observing communities, similar activities of the State Kiev Design Bureau" Luch "(GKKB" Luch "), acting in the interests of the Pentagon and the US Department of State anti-Russian nationalist elite "square".

In particular, we are talking about the parameters of the Alder-M high-precision long-range multiple launch rocket system, which has reached the level of operational combat readiness, developed far from without information and technical support from the specialists of the American military-industrial corporation Lockheed Martin.

Despite the fact that the maximum flight speed (about 1000-1200 m / s), range (120-130 km), as well as the height of the apogee of the quasi-ballistic flight trajectory (25-45 km) of 300-mm guided missiles "Alder" M "are almost identical to the analogous parameters of the Tula rockets of the 9M544 / 549 family of the Tornado-S systems, the control system of Ukrainian rockets has a cardinal technological difference, which in the future (after loading additional flight modes into the drives of inertial navigation units) will increase the application efficiency strikes on objects covered by echeloned anti-missile "umbrellas".

We are talking about equipping guided rockets "Alder-M" not only with nose blocks of aerodynamic rudders, but also with "gas-dynamic belts" of transverse / momentary control engines (DPU) of impulse action, placed in front of the centers of mass of the rockets.

These "gas-dynamic belts" DPU are represented by 90 nozzle modules, "powered" from one or more gas generators by means of 90 capillary gas ducts, each of which is equipped with a high-speed gas distribution micro-valve with a programmable electromagnetic throttle valve drive. Filigree precise commands received by drives of certain groups of throttle valves from the inertial navigation unit of Alder-M rockets with a frequency of 1000 Hz ensure the implementation of lightning-fast transverse throws on the trajectory with its immediate correction.

It is most likely that the current version of the software of the inertial navigation units installed on the promising 300-mm Alder-M projectiles provides for the use of “gas-dynamic belts” only to correct their flight paths in the ascending and marching sections.


Gas-dynamic belt "transverse control engines (moment action), located in front of the center of mass and aerodynamic focus of the Ukrainian missile" Alder-M ". A similar configuration is used in the American anti-missile MIM-104F PAC-3MSE. Source: defense-ua.com

In turn, loading the Alder-M shells into the INS with additional software add-ons will make it possible to use these "belts" for carrying out intensive anti-aircraft maneuvers with G-forces of 35–55 G at the terminal section of the trajectory. This can significantly complicate the process of intercepting them by means of such domestic anti-aircraft missile systems as the S-300PS / PM1 and Buk-M2.

The implementation of this technological "trump card" is quite solvable. Indeed, in the program for the development of the above-described "gas-dynamic belt" DPU for Ukrainian rockets "Alder-M" with 100% probability, specialists from the corporation "Lockheed Martin" took part, who had previously carried out the project and launched a more complex "gas-dynamic belt" 180 nozzle blocks) to equip MIM-104F PAC-3MSE super-maneuverable anti-aircraft interceptor missiles, included in the ammunition of the Patriot PAC-3MSE anti-missile systems.

It is obvious that the employees of the Ukrainian GKKB "Luch" did not have the appropriate critical technologies and the proper experience to develop a high-performance on-board computer that would ensure the precise functioning of such a complex unit as the "gas-dynamic belt" of the DPU.

Meanwhile, the relevant developments within the framework of the second stage of deep modernization of the Tula long-range missiles 9M544 / 549 can be put into operation by the design department of NPO Splav named after A.N. Ganichev ".

So, in the course of preparing the analytical material "Analysis of the possibility of increasing the firing range of promising guided missiles for domestic multiple launch rocket systems" for the network scientific publication "Aerospace Scientific Journal", the specialists of the Moscow State Technical University. N.E. Baumana Vladimir Nikolaevich Zubov and Pavel Fikretovich Dzhevanshirov came to the conclusion that the range of the Smerch / Tornado-S MLRS can be increased by developing and integrating into their ammunition advanced guided missiles equipped with integral ramjet rocket engines (IRPD), located in the tail parts of the products.

Indeed, the specific thrust impulse is of the order of 500-700 s, as well as the possibility of prolonging the burn-out period of the solid propellant charge of solid propellant rocket engines due to the regulation of the intensity of its supply to the combustion chamber of the IRPD, will increase the range of action of the improved 300-mm rockets by 1,8-2 times (with 120 to 220–240 km), giving a huge head start to the Ukrainian Alder-M missiles, as well as the promising American 227-mm guided missiles GMLRS +.

At the same time, Vladimir Nikolaevich and Pavel Fikretovich missed an extremely important detail in their material ...


The block of the interceptor thrust vector deflection system, located in the tail section of the R-73RMD-1 close air combat missile. Similar blocks can be integrated into the nozzle channels of the combustion chambers of integral RPDs of advanced 9M528 / 549 rockets. Source: pfc-joker.livejournal.com

We are talking about the possibility of equipping advanced versions of 9M528 and 9M544 / 549 rockets not only with ramjet engines, but also with interceptor thrust vector deflection systems (OVT), which also provide the ability to perform anti-aircraft maneuvers.

The possibility of prolonging the burnout period of the IRPD solid propellant charge up to the terminal section of the trajectory will ensure the preservation of the efficiency of the operation of the heat-resistant planes of the OVT system at the moment the missile enters the zone of the enemy's anti-missile defense. That will be an excellent help for the improved Tula 300-mm rockets in "breaking through" the enemy's powerful anti-missile barriers.
Author:
67 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. Sancho_SP
    Sancho_SP 12 December 2020 05: 14
    +19
    I guess the main advantage of a tornado is that it exists :)
    1. NDR-791
      NDR-791 12 December 2020 06: 30
      0
      Quote: Sancho_SP
      I guess the main advantage of a tornado is that it exists

      The most important thing here is that not only they do not know how to develop, but also cannot produce quickly and without jambs. As they say in pilot plants - you can draw everything, you try to do laughing And whoever helps them in development there is still no money for production, which means that there will be no quality at a critical moment.
      It is obvious that the employees of the Ukrainian GKKB "Luch" did not have the appropriate critical technologies and the proper experience to develop a high-performance on-board computer that would ensure the precise functioning of such a complex unit as the "gas-dynamic belt" of the DPU.
    2. TermNachTer
      TermNachTer 12 December 2020 10: 50
      +6
      It exists, is serially produced and is being modernized. And Banderaffen "alder" is available in a single copy and when it will be adopted and it will go to the troops))))
  2. Mykhalych
    Mykhalych 12 December 2020 05: 48
    -2
    Well, well, cognitive, informative. hi Again Russia is behind VelikoUkry. Brazil is listed not only came to sell TAURUS, but mainly to buy "Alder". Expensive, it is not known when they will do it, but from a reliable US servant. There will be praised.
    1. Alexander Galaktionov
      Alexander Galaktionov 12 December 2020 06: 18
      -12%
      Behind, the great Ukrainians are ahead) do we have Iskander at the ukrovs? Iskander not only with OTR but also with mini Caliber
  3. Alexander Galaktionov
    Alexander Galaktionov 12 December 2020 06: 00
    0
    Tornado C rockets are more similar to the Israeli extra Aerodynamic rudders are similar to those of the extra
  4. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 12 December 2020 06: 46
    +7
    Reading the title of the article
    Hidden benefits Ukrainian "Alder-M" before "Tornado-S"
    In the article we read that it is possible, with the help of the Americans, that "Luch" achieved breakthrough successes in the creation of rockets for its MLRS. In the conclusion of the article, we read that the Tornado rockets will give a head start to the Ukrainian ones and become
    excellent help in "breaking through" the enemy's powerful anti-missile barriers
    So I don’t understand the Ukrainians overdone or not?
    1. rotmistr60
      rotmistr60 12 December 2020 07: 08
      +15
      PS: The author of course always scrupulously lays out everything on the shelves, gives technical information, but in my personal opinion his articles are often overloaded with this technical information and an abundance of abbreviations.
    2. The leader of the Redskins
      The leader of the Redskins 12 December 2020 07: 27
      +19
      Yes, the author himself, probably, did not understand everything!))
      laughing
      The main thing is that he did not spare the child's consciousness! After all, a couple of years ago they wrote that "alder" is "a water pipe with a GPS transmitter. A little later - that it is not the production of missiles, but so - like repair, well, like repair ... Painting old!
      And here Damantsev with his "Lockheed Martins"!
      1. Avior
        Avior 12 December 2020 08: 03
        +9
        I have never met about Lockheed Martin in connection with Luch and Alder
        1. The leader of the Redskins
          The leader of the Redskins 12 December 2020 09: 05
          -1
          The media are silent about this, but no one has canceled conspiracy theories. And since it looks like (but the option of copying or imitation is swept aside immediately - since the political component tells us that the Ukrainians have died in the field of development), then definitely, in spite of itself, "Lockheed Martin" began to grow competitors!)))
          1. Avior
            Avior 12 December 2020 09: 11
            +10
            I also did not understand why Lockheed Martin
            1. DmSol
              DmSol 14 December 2020 13: 31
              +1
              A logical continuation of American policy, when the aborigines cut each other themselves. Lethal weapons cannot be supplied as BE, but you can help to make them. And it's not a fact that the same Ray will be a competitor, and not just a place of production for Lockheed Martin.
        2. Alex777
          Alex777 12 December 2020 17: 56
          +2
          I have never met about Lockheed Martin in connection with Luch and Alder

          I came across the work of Ray and the developers of Polonaise.
          And about Lockheed Martin and Ray - nothing. Nothing at all. hi
    3. Mykhalych
      Mykhalych 12 December 2020 07: 45
      -14%
      Quote: rotmistr60
      So I don’t understand the Ukrainians overdone or not?

      Well, of course, they "skipped", "pooped", - as with the Black Sea and the Pyramids in Egypt, including wheat, Orthodoxy and the spoken language in general.
    4. Avior
      Avior 12 December 2020 08: 02
      +2
      This means that Tornadoes can gain an advantage when introducing engines with a deflected thrust vector
      1. Orange bigg
        Orange bigg 12 December 2020 08: 17
        0
        Tornado-S, thanks to new guided missiles, already has an advantage.
        New Delhi, September 26. The 9A53-S "Tornado" system, which replaced the BM-30 "Smerch", allowed Russia to make a missile breakthrough. This was stated in an article by the authors of the EurAsian Times. The translation of the material was presented by "PolitRussia".

        Observers praised the results of the latest Tornado tests under the leadership of the RF Ministry of Defense. Thanks to innovations, the MLRS has increased the range of destruction to 200 kilometers. The global satellite system GLONASS is used, which provides positioning, navigation and timing of missile launch.

        GLONASS also turned the Tornado into an effective weapon against dispersed enemy units. Now the system can automatically receive and process information from reconnaissance units and UAVs.

        https://riafan.ru/1315415-eurasian-times-rossiya-sovershila-raketnyi-proryv-blagodarya-tornado

        Russian multiple launch rocket systems "Tornado" are high-precision systems equipped with intelligent projectiles. They are capable of striking strategically important enemy targets at a considerable distance. The Tornado-S platform is a highly modernized version of the Smerch MLRS, which has an increased range and firing accuracy. In addition, it allows you to enter individual flight settings for each of the projectiles, and it was designed in such a way as to strike enemy soldiers, military equipment, stationary or mobile targets, both single and multiple.

        https://inosmi.ru/military/20201123/248590753.html
        1. Avior
          Avior 12 December 2020 08: 22
          +7
          Damantsev wrote about the possibility of anti-aircraft maneuvers in the final phase of the flight
          1. Nikolaevich I
            Nikolaevich I 12 December 2020 08: 40
            +2
            Quote: Avior
            Damantsev wrote about the possibility of anti-aircraft maneuvers in the final phase of the flight

            Well, well ... It's interesting for us, but for weapons it's actual!
          2. qQQQ
            qQQQ 12 December 2020 09: 35
            +4
            will allow using these "belts" for the implementation of intensive anti-zenith maneuvers with overloads of 35–55 G at the terminal section of the trajectory.

            In order for this sausage not to break under such overloads, the rocket itself must be radically changed there, in general, a new complex must be created, which will have nothing to do with Alder.
            1. Avior
              Avior 12 December 2020 11: 45
              +6
              Well this is Damantsev.
              And the topic of anti-aircraft maneuvers has become simply fashionable, they mold wherever they go.
            2. avdkrd
              avdkrd 13 December 2020 00: 10
              +3
              Quote: qqqq
              In order for this sausage not to break under such overloads, the rocket itself must be radically changed there, in general, a new complex must be created, which will have nothing to do with Alder.

              Me too, this option does not seem like science fiction. There are too many complex technical solutions for a relatively low-power rocket. Rather, the use of such solutions will greatly reduce the BCH. In the caliber of 300mm, even the gas-dynamic rudders are already redundant, and the reasoning about the OVT on the RSO just makes you bored. Why this enchanting nonsense? It's not an anti-aircraft missile.
    5. Skif
      Skif 18 December 2020 22: 32
      0
      Well, then. Someday. May be.
  5. The comment was deleted.
  6. Guards turn
    Guards turn 12 December 2020 08: 37
    +2
    More than 2500 new main types of weapons, military and special equipment entered the Ground Forces in 2020. The commander-in-chief of the troops, General of the Army Oleg Salyukov, spoke about this in an interview with Krasnaya Zvezda.

    “The Tornado-S MLRS with increased characteristics in terms of range, firing accuracy and an expanded range of high-power rockets are being supplied to the jet formations,” Salyukov said.

    He also added that Tornado-G multiple launch rocket systems and Msta-SM self-propelled howitzers are being delivered to the artillery units of the combined arms formations.

    For motorized rifle units, upgraded BMP-2 with the "Berezhok" fighting compartment are being purchased.

    Multiple launch rocket systems "Tornado-S" and "Tornado-G" were developed by the Tula research and production association "Splav" on the basis of the MLRS "Smerch" and "Grad", respectively. The first system includes a modernized combat vehicle equipped with ASUNO and new unguided 300 mm projectiles with a maximum flight range of up to 120 km. In the future, it is possible to increase the range to 200 km.

    The second, in contrast to the "Grad", has a more perfect fire control system with satellite navigation and a computer for calculating ballistic indicators, which makes it possible to aim at the target coordinates in automatic mode.

    As for the "Berezhok" combat module, it is armed with laser-guided Kornet anti-tank guided missiles, developed at the Tula Instrument Design Bureau named after A.G. Shipunova.
    1. Boris Chernikov
      Boris Chernikov 12 December 2020 16: 03
      -6
      here the key question is different .. why do we need a missile with a range of 200 km? taking into account the trajectory, it will be an easy target for air defense, and Iskander will work at a distance of 150 km + from the front line
  7. Kuz
    Kuz 12 December 2020 12: 00
    +15
    Not all characteristics are known. What is there to compare?
  8. Old tanker
    Old tanker 12 December 2020 12: 45
    -1
    Amuse Damantsev with reading laughing
  9. Operator
    Operator 12 December 2020 13: 45
    -5
    Above the Russian inertial guidance system still work and work: the fiber-optic component in its composition - yesterday. All components must be micromechanical. Plus, the satellite navigation antenna should be of the AFAR type to form a radiation pattern exclusively in the upper hemisphere in order to neutralize ground-based electronic warfare equipment.

    As for the solid-fuel ramjet engine (providing an increase in the firing range due to the use of air as an oxidizer), the control system of its thrust vector is definitely more efficient than the installation of a gas-dynamic belt of transverse control - the weight and efficiency of the latter solution is much worse.

    The URS will enable the URSs to have an overload of more than 20 G throughout the flight (except for the starting acceleration), which excludes the possibility of their interception by anti-aircraft missiles with a gas-dynamic belt and an available overload of less than 40 G. At the same time, the range of the Smerch URS will multiply exceed the URS range " Alder "with a rocket engine and a gas-dynamic belt.

    Outskirts techno ... ly are the most techno ... leaves in the world (see the opuses of the local Outskirts techno ... la) bully
    1. garri-lin
      garri-lin 12 December 2020 19: 26
      +2
      The disadvantage of UHT is that it stops working without traction. And the gas-dynamic belts described in the article look somewhat wildly complicated. There are simpler solutions.
      1. Operator
        Operator 12 December 2020 20: 22
        -2
        The stock of solid fuel ramjet should be enough for the entire duration of the URS flight after the launch with the help of the rocket booster. Those. UHT will be operational until the moment it hits the target.
        1. garri-lin
          garri-lin 13 December 2020 01: 33
          +2
          It is illogical. At those speeds, inertial flight can be tens of kilometers. Why artificially limit the range?
          1. Operator
            Operator 13 December 2020 12: 40
            -2
            After the starting acceleration of the URS with the help of a rocket engine, the ramjet engine works in the same way as a turbojet engine - the entire flight time (in order to compensate for aerodynamic drag).
            1. garri-lin
              garri-lin 13 December 2020 12: 45
              0
              All the same, it will turn out to be an artificial understatement of the range. Or a senseless overweight missile.
              1. Operator
                Operator 13 December 2020 12: 52
                -3
                You want to say that the operation of the Tomahawk or Caliber turbojet engine throughout the entire flight is an artificial lowering of the range?
                1. garri-lin
                  garri-lin 13 December 2020 12: 58
                  0
                  How long can a Tomahawk fly by inertia relative to its maximum range? An extra 3 percent? How long can an MLRS rocket fly by inertia relative to the range at which the engine is running? I think here we will talk about tens of percent. Speeds, flight profiles, required accuracy. Everything is completely different.
                  1. Operator
                    Operator 13 December 2020 13: 30
                    -4
                    In addition to inertia in the Earth's gravitational field, aerodynamic air resistance constantly acts on the URS in the atmosphere. If it is compensated for by the ramjet thrust, then the projectile will fly to a range corresponding to shooting in airless space - with an increase in the range, of course.

                    Plus a small lift arising on the aerodynamic planes of the URS will also increase the range - the resulting air resistance will be compensated by the same ramjet thrust.

                    The total increase in range can be estimated at least 50% (with the possibility of using UHT on any part of the flight).
                    1. garri-lin
                      garri-lin 13 December 2020 17: 39
                      0
                      The final speed at the moment of hitting the target will be what? From what height will the target be dived?
                      1. Operator
                        Operator 13 December 2020 18: 14
                        -4
                        The final speed will be marching - 1000 m / s. The flight will take place along a quasi-ballistic trajectory, the height of the dive transition (if required) is 10-15 km.
                      2. garri-lin
                        garri-lin 13 December 2020 18: 55
                        0
                        At the time of complete fuel burnout, the rocket will fly at 12 kilometers altitude at a speed of 1000 m / s. Inertial flight will give a couple of tens of kilometers of range. Control on the march is not necessary. UHT will be redundant. The final section will be optimal. But this will severely limit the possible range. The engine proposed by you without UHT plus the belts of gas-dynamic rudders look more logical.
  • _Oplot_
    _Oplot_ 12 December 2020 14: 08
    -13%
    Ukraine has always ruled and steers in scientific potential, even under the USSR! All the most advanced weapons in the USSR were created in Ukraine! Tanks (Kharkov) missiles, the same Satan (Dnepr), aircraft carriers (Nikolaev), small arms (Kiev), KraZ super-tractors (Kremenchug). Now they want to put into production the OTRK Grom-2 or Sapsan, with a range of up to 600-700 km., Which is analogous to growing. Iskander, but much better, more effective! angry Thanks to our fathers, Soviet-style designers who work for the good of the Motherland, and a deep bow to you.
    1. Uncle Vanya Susanin
      Uncle Vanya Susanin 12 December 2020 18: 47
      +6
      Did he steer and steer? What are you talking about now, where did she rule? He was driving the USSR! What's left of the past:
      All kraz, all Nikolaev shipyards, Yuzhmash is barely alive, Zim is a little livelier, AN has not released a single car in 5 years! More or less Motor Sich, but it looks like it was also "got", KB Luch is the only exception from this galaxy!
      Now they want to put into production the OTRK Grom-2 or Sapsan, with a range of up to 600-700 km., Which is analogous to growing. Iskander, but much better, more effective!

      I also want to put into production a new "death star", it will be much better and more effective than the one that Polpatine had wink
    2. awdrgy
      awdrgy 12 December 2020 20: 06
      +7
      Amendment In the USSR it was in Ukraine, as, for example, in the Urals or in the Oryol region, which in turn implied the presence of an intellectual and material resource collected from all over the USSR and concentrated in specific design bureaus. Question what was done when it became in Ukraine? (And to be even more precise, what was done when the remnants of the intellectual and resource base of the USSR ended up as a result of its collapse in Ukraine) T e should call things by their proper names and not engage in substitution of concepts and creating illusions Everyone understands everything, there was a part of the union and each of it a resident could consider himself a citizen of a cool country and build illusions that it is cool thanks to him Now this part is not cool and each of its residents should understand this or build new illusions This happens and it is sad
    3. Aviator_
      Aviator_ 12 December 2020 21: 26
      +3
      Ukraine has always ruled and steers in scientific potential

      Mortar "Hammer" forgot to mention.
    4. Pechkin
      Pechkin 13 December 2020 10: 14
      +3
      Yes, in general, everything was invented and created in Ukraine, from a wheel to a computer. Only this super talented people loved almost everything that was left after the collapse of the USSR. Ukraine is the poorest country with a predominantly Slavic population in the world. Because of what you do in your country, those around you have Spanish shame.
    5. sgrabik
      sgrabik 13 December 2020 14: 07
      +2
      Oplot_ (Anatoly), Ukraine once had a full-fledged military-industrial complex in the past, but now there is nothing of this, and there is no need to try to transfer the former capabilities of the Ukrainian military-industrial complex to its modern realities, it is immediately clear that you do not understand anything in modern weapons and do not own reliable information, but you are very well brainwashed by your "brave" Ukro media !!!
  • Boris Chernikov
    Boris Chernikov 12 December 2020 15: 58
    0
    it always touches when "ours have created something and it goes to the troops", so this is crap and heresy, but if someone "promises to create", then immediately "wah wah wah, they are great, not like our deer "... although to promise does not mean to marry stop
  • Pavel57
    Pavel57 12 December 2020 16: 59
    +2
    Quote: Operator
    Above the Russian inertial guidance system still to work and work: the fiber-optic component in its composition - yesterday

    What does laser horoscopes dislike? Proven technology. For this class of missiles it is quite enough. And DNG gyroscopes also appeared about 30 years ago.
  • Glenni
    Glenni 12 December 2020 17: 17
    -3
    "acting in the interests of the anti-Russian nationalist elite" independent "led by the Pentagon and the US State Department. Another lie has been written! The Design Bureau is and will act in the interests of the state of Ukraine and its multinational people!
    1. _Oplot_
      _Oplot_ 12 December 2020 17: 24
      +1
      in Russia, they lie only for the internal public, I wonder if the American Lockheed Martin himself knows that he took part in the creation of Alder? than in the West and here the fathers of a Soviet-trained designer would not have done, it's funny. The rocket Satan, which was so feared and even now, when it is mentioned in the West, causes fear, was created in the Dnieper, the Hartron system, an automatic control system for rocket and space technology, was created in Kharkov, and this is at least.
      1. awdrgy
        awdrgy 12 December 2020 23: 52
        +1
        In the Dnieper ??? Is it in the river? I understand the slip, but it's cool good
      2. Magnat231
        Magnat231 13 December 2020 11: 37
        0
        Yes, your fathers designers did not, if it were not for the USSR, you were not even on the map, great Ukrainians
      3. sgrabik
        sgrabik 13 December 2020 14: 15
        0
        Fathers designers with Soviet hardening who worked during the Soviet era have long retired due to their more than advanced age, and most of those few that still remain have long left Ukraine for the design bureaus of China or Russia, in modern impoverished and wretched Ukraine they obviously have nothing to catch !!!
    2. mister-red
      mister-red 15 December 2020 00: 45
      +2
      The Design Bureau is and will be acting in the interests of the state of Ukraine and its multinational people!
      The proposal is just a pearl. The state of Ukraine is under external control. Do not believe me, ask the US Ambassador, he will explain it to you. By the way, I'm not gloating, we have the same situation ... Only I am from Moldova. What did you think? )
      In fact, there is no Ukrainian nation, ask the Crimeans, Dobasovites, Luhansk residents.
      Especially multinational - the minister of your education will not allow you to lie.
  • dgonni
    dgonni 12 December 2020 18: 35
    0
    Alder is cooler than a Tornado !? I correctly understood the meaning of Damantsev's opus?
  • jekasimf
    jekasimf 12 December 2020 19: 56
    -2
    AHAHAHA !!! laughing Well, the author made fun! Compared the elephant and the whale! Hike, the author does not understand at all the difference between MLRS and high-precision missile systems. The Ukrainians tried to cross a hedgehog and a snake. On the basis of the MLRS launcher, they created a system for launching a high-precision missile system.
    The MLRS is good because it does not have homing systems. It hits the square, being guided only by the "barrel", and therefore cheap. And what the Ukrainians tried to pile has long been created in Russia, but under the name Iskander. that special ammunition-cluster and anti-tank ammunition has been created for MLRS. And that’s all. You don’t need anything else !!!! All another class of weapons. Iskander missile systems. With their own, both ballistic and cruise missiles. Moreover, and then that Ukrainians are trying to pile on
    anti-ship theme, in Russia as long ago created as a separate class-Bastion. In fact, a universal launcher for a whole class of ammunition.
    1. Avior
      Avior 13 December 2020 04: 29
      +9
      Guided missiles based on MLRS launchers have long become a global trend
      9K515 "Tornado-C" in Russia,
      B-200 "Polonaise" in Belarus,
      Shells for MLRS Shenlong 60 and Dragon 60 in China,
      M142 HIMARS in the USA and others.
      Including Ukrainian Alder.
  • svoit
    svoit 13 December 2020 12: 08
    0
    Quote: garri-lin
    ... Why artificially limit the range?

    Precisely for being able to maneuver at the target with an overload of at least 100g. What is the point of flying 119 km to be shot down on the last 1 km?
    1. garri-lin
      garri-lin 13 December 2020 12: 51
      0
      For anti-zenith maneuver 100 g is not needed. 20 is enough. OBT is clearly redundant for this. An adequate belt of gas-dynamic transverse engines is quite enough. Well, plus a rocket with a running engine is always an easier target than a rocket flying by inertia.
  • svoit
    svoit 13 December 2020 12: 18
    +1
    Quote: Glenni
    The Design Bureau is and will be acting in the interests of the state of Ukraine and its multinational people!

    With your lips and honey to drink, fresh tradition, but hard to believe. You have to believe the facts, but they are completely different. It turned out strangely that the tail began to twirl the dog, although if Uncle Sam pulls the tail, then everything is possible.
  • gromovanton
    gromovanton 13 December 2020 13: 06
    +2
    The article is very interesting! Perhaps I'm wrong, but I'm scared by the abundance of technical details disclosed in the article regarding the weaknesses, capabilities, directions of modernization of our own MLRS and MLRS "Alder-M" systems so that potential opponents and just facts, details and conclusions can use it against us proposed by the author are not trivial, self-evident.
    In general, reading articles on HBO, I noticed that domestic systems, their characteristics, shortcomings are considered almost to the point, and foreign systems, at best, are described without details.
    It turns out that the intellectual potential of the authors, many of whom have high expertise in the issues under consideration, serves, among other things, for foreign technical intelligence services.
    After all, what is obvious to an expert is not at all obvious not only to an employee of foreign technical intelligence, but also to leading foreign developers.
    And here there is a dilemma: not to write about the problems of our systems means simply to keep silent about them and not to attract the attention of the expert community, decision-makers. To reveal our "ulcers" in detail = to give potential partners the opportunity to quickly and easily find our weaknesses and exploit them. Where is the balance between openness of discussion and self-censorship (we are not talking about disclosing state secrets)? It is obvious to every expert, developer of weapons systems that the correct formulation of the problem is already half of the solution. An indication of the exact places, the reasons for the shortcomings tells the competent person much more than even the numbers relating to chipboard, state secrets.
    I have no simple answers to these questions, but it would be interesting to know how these problems are solved abroad?
    And even when evaluating any weapons system, I see it as a disadvantage that there is a generally accepted methodology for assessing its comparative effectiveness according to the cost / efficiency criteria, when both civil society and the State Duma could, without disclosing sensitive details, make rational decisions about adopting certain types of R&D weapons.
    1. Borisych
      Borisych 13 December 2020 17: 12
      0
      There is a common truth about a find for a spy. Let's not become such a find.
  • BAI
    BAI 13 December 2020 19: 33
    +1
    At the same time, Vladimir Nikolaevich and Pavel Fikretovich missed an extremely important detail in their material ...

    These are the passages that are touching. When the author is no one to call in any way undertakes to teach the recognized authorities in his field. Let me ask you how many MLRS has the author of the article developed and brought to the series?
  • EvilLion
    EvilLion 14 December 2020 08: 09
    +1
    What other dozens of G ?? Gas-dynamic rudder nozzles are, in principle, not designed to create such a thrust. It is possible to correct the trajectory, but not to maneuver intensively, which requires a fundamentally different thrust. Rather, such a decision indicates the inability to make normal controllability by conventional means, that is, it is the same crutch as the PGO on the Su-27M.
  • Martian
    Martian 15 December 2020 16: 20
    0
    All this sounds beautiful, but damn the cost of such a racket is awesome !!! But multiple launch rocket systems are intended primarily to scour the area a lot and often. Where are so many shells?
    And by the way, they are not fools at the Luch Design Bureau. I worked there too.
  • Dzafdet
    Dzafdet 18 December 2020 12: 36
    0
    Quote: Boris Chernikov
    here the key question is different .. why do we need a missile with a range of 200 km? taking into account the trajectory, it will be an easy target for air defense, and Iskander will work at a distance of 150 km + from the front line

    Iskander - one warhead, but here 12. Do you understand the difference? You can cover a column or positions right away.
  • Viktor Sergeev
    Viktor Sergeev 18 December 2020 21: 39
    0
    And who saw Oblha in action? So, garbage once where shot and sunk into oblivion. The tornado exists in reality and will be adopted. Well, and 250 km. this is OTP.
  • ship
    ship 26 December 2020 20: 56
    +1
    "In the 76th and 63rd years, the most famous employees of the Tula defense enterprise passed away - ... Valery Alekseevich Maslov and ... Vadim Rashitovich Alyazedinov."
    They died on November 25th and 24th, 2020.