Military Review

Elon Musk's starship prototype exploded on landing

250
Elon Musk's starship prototype exploded on landing

SpaceX's eighth Starship SN8 prototype exploded after performing a test flight. The head of the company called the tests of the ship successful.


Starship tests traditionally took place at the company's proving ground in the Boca Chica area of ​​Texas. At 17:45 US East Coast time (01:45 Moscow time), the device took off from the ground and five minutes later reached the specified altitude. During the flight, the ship performed a maneuver, moving to a horizontal position, then returning to its original vertical. On the eve of the test, it was reported that the ship should reach an altitude of 15 km.

During landing, the Starship exploded upon touching the tarmac next to the launch pad. The company noted that the ship landed on the site not quite vertically, one of the ship's engines abnormally stopped working.


It is noted that this is the first launch of a ship with a fully assembled hull: with a nose cone and front and rear stabilizers. The prototype was also tested for the first time with three Raptor engines. There should be six of them in the final version.

Despite the explosion, the head of SpaceX Elon Musk called the launch a success.

Successful ascent, shifting to lead tanks and precise flap control all the way to landing! Mars we go !!

- he wrote on Twitter.
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  1. ALARI
    ALARI 10 December 2020 08: 57
    +9
    It will start now))
    1. Nasrat
      Nasrat 10 December 2020 09: 00
      +15
      They write about the Chinese, they write about the Americans ... but they don't write about the Japanese, although there is the same interesting news from the world of space - for administrators to note ...
      1. Doctor
        Doctor 10 December 2020 09: 13
        +4
        They write about the Chinese, they write about the Americans ... but they don't write about the Japanese, although there is the same interesting news from the world of space - for administrators to note ...

        There's some fantastic news in there. There are even doubts about whether there was a boy? wink
        1. Thrall
          Thrall 10 December 2020 09: 17
          +4
          Starship SN8 exploded. The head of the company called the tests successful.

          Everything is logical. Keep it up! smile
          1. military_cat
            military_cat 10 December 2020 11: 51
            +5
            The SN8 test is the best thing that has happened in the space industry in 2020. The event is historical without exaggeration. It showed that all the principles laid down are technically realizable, and in fact opened the way for a completely new level launch system.
            1. Buffet
              Buffet 10 December 2020 13: 40
              -1
              Yes, they are technically feasible with technologies of the 21st century. However, how they are implemented and what is the competence of the engineers and technicians, the build quality ... The big question.
              1. Interlocutor
                Interlocutor 10 December 2020 18: 18
                +2
                Yes, they are technically feasible with technologies of the 21st century. However, how they are implemented and what is the competence of the engineers and technicians, the build quality ... The big question.

                See the assembly in the daily report mode
                1. Buffet
                  Buffet 11 December 2020 20: 52
                  -2
                  Well, well ... 8 prototypes - 8 explosions and all top type. The main thing is to master the babosiks from the NASA budget on time (which, in turn, is financed from the US budget - he is such a private space, yeah).
                  1. Vadim237
                    Vadim237 11 December 2020 22: 48
                    0
                    All that NASA allocated to the Starship is 50 million - everything else from its own pocket and the pocket of private investors.
                    1. Buffet
                      Buffet 12 December 2020 21: 35
                      0
                      yeah ... Wall Street financiers like Musk make money out of thin air. Capitalization over 1_ (substitute a number greater than 0), and whether it is in the hardware or not, no one cares (Nikola's trucks are a direct example as never before). Whether it works or not, nobody cares. The money will paint and sell bubbles to itself.
                  2. Trotil42
                    Trotil42 12 December 2020 04: 32
                    0
                    Another sufferer for American taxpayers..Putin suffers ... Rogozin suffers .. The US budget spent 0.4 billion dollars on Dragon .. In space, only Musk invested more than 100 million. dollars ... For example ... according to various estimates, ZENIT-ARENA cost $ 1.3 billion ... the most expensive stadium in the world ... the Guinness Book of Records ... no one sat down ... you have a diagnosis ...putinoid.
                    1. Buffet
                      Buffet 12 December 2020 21: 51
                      0
                      Dragon doesn't fly properly yet. And what they wanted from him initially and what they got in the end are different things. How was it presented at the beginning? 7 seater landing on his feet. What did you get in the end? 4 local and splash-down. But that is.
                      Quote: Trotil42
                      In space, Musk alone has invested more than 100 million. Doll

                      So what? Where is the result from this? Falcon promised to be the best. But in fact, he lives at the expense of government and military orders. At the same time, purely by chance, the cost for its military suddenly turns out to be 1.5-4 times higher, while SpaceX is a non-public company and does not disclose its reports. And voila - sleight of hand and no cheating.
            2. Genry
              Genry 10 December 2020 15: 35
              -6
              Quote: military_cat
              The SN8 test is the best thing that has happened in the space industry in 2020.

              What's so great about it? Or have all the pink spots got wet at the sight of such a giant phallus?
              1. military_cat
                military_cat 10 December 2020 15: 47
                +9
                I would gladly tell you if your question was asked in a less boorish form.
                1. Genry
                  Genry 10 December 2020 22: 32
                  -5
                  A complete failure with the engines in testing, when they could not work out the entire sequence of tasks and provide braking during the landing stage - you call it "the best" ???
                  And after all, a return flight (return to Earth) with a repetition of all stages is also supposed ...
                  1. Cosm22
                    Cosm22 10 December 2020 22: 37
                    0
                    You should understand the subject at least a little before writing nonsense.
                    1. Genry
                      Genry 10 December 2020 22: 40
                      -1
                      Quote: Cosm22
                      You should understand the subject at least a little before writing nonsense.

                      Tell me specifically about my nonsense, than write your dummy.
                      1. Cosm22
                        Cosm22 10 December 2020 23: 29
                        +2
                        On your fingers or will words suit you?
                        What have the engines to do with it?
                        Of course, nothing can be said with 100% certainty. One can only analyze visual observations and statements of Space X specialists. The engines ran normally. At least during the first stage of the flight. It can be stated that for the first time in history the company has successfully synchronized three methane engines at once. Accurate synchronization was maintained throughout 100 seconds of flight. After turning off two engines, the third worked steadily for another minute and a half to gain the declared altitude and transfer the product to level flight.
                        5 minutes after the launch, the last engine also turned off, and the rocket began the planned fall within two minutes, the stability of the fall mode was provided by 4 large flaps. This part of the flight program was executed flawlessly.
                        At 16:52, Starship SN8 launched first one, then two other Raptors for a 2 ° turn and vertical transition. It was from this moment that the failure occurred.
                        Apparently due to the fact that after switching the SCT to small tanks in one of the tanks, the pressure turned out to be lower than the calculated one (and, therefore, in the system).
                        Take a closer look at the video of the flight - two engines that turned on were blinking green before failure, the third still working just drowned in it. Green color indicates that the low pressure, apparently, was not in the oxygen tank, but in the fuel tank. As a result, there was an over-enrichment of the fuel mixture with oxygen, which is indicated by the green color. At first, by the way, a version of the oxygen tank malfunction was put forward.
                        Be that as it may, by and large there are no complaints about the engines (and they caused the greatest concern before the start). The SPT will be sorted out, SN9 is already ready, it will now be additionally checked for the possibility of an already identified malfunction, and in the near future we will see the continuation of the Marleson ballet.
                      2. Genry
                        Genry 10 December 2020 23: 55
                        -2
                        Quote: Cosm22
                        One can only analyze visual observations and statements of Space X specialists.

                        And be led by their judgment for the sake of justification ...?
                        Quote: Cosm22
                        It can be stated that for the first time in history the company has successfully synchronized three methane engines at once. Accurate synchronization was maintained throughout 100 seconds of flight.

                        What is there to synchronize. Small deviations - it is enough to work out with one engine, with a larger one: to attract the rest.

                        Quote: Cosm22
                        from that moment on, the failure occurred.
                        Apparently due to the fact that after switching the SCT to small tanks in one of the tanks, the pressure turned out to be lower than the calculated one (and, therefore, in the system).

                        Musk has chronic valve problems that get stuck due to water hammer. The resulting malfunction indicates a failure ...
                        Quote: Cosm22
                        Be that as it may, by and large there are no complaints about the engines (and they caused the greatest concern before the start).

                        Yes, yes ... Braking did not work - no problems - everything is successful .... ???? fool
                      3. Cosm22
                        Cosm22 11 December 2020 00: 20
                        0
                        Excuse me, but what class are you in?
                        Do you understand the difference between an engine and SPT at all? Or is it the same for you?
                      4. Genry
                        Genry 11 December 2020 00: 33
                        -1
                        Quote: Cosm22
                        Do you understand the difference between an engine and SPT at all?

                        You are the only one on this forum, boast of your SPT. Do you want to justify the hack-work and the "cut" by Musk? fool
                2. TANKISTONE
                  TANKISTONE 11 December 2020 09: 15
                  0
                  Genry
                  Tell me specifically about my nonsense, than write your dummy.
                  Do not talk nonsense!
                3. Genry
                  Genry 11 December 2020 10: 35
                  -1
                  Quote: TANKISTONE
                  Do not talk nonsense!

                  I have dick and not nonsense. recourse
                4. military_cat
                  military_cat 11 December 2020 15: 48
                  +2
                  Why is she at half past five? What are the dirty hints? Under the USSR, the artist would have already left to cut wood for such an ideological sabotage.
                5. Genry
                  Genry 11 December 2020 18: 53
                  +1
                  Quote: military_cat
                  Why is she at half past five? What are the dirty hints?

                  This shows the level of sympathy for ...
                6. military_cat
                  military_cat 11 December 2020 20: 24
                  -1
                  Oh, those tolerant times, where the sight of boobs causes half past five, and instead of them something else is required.
                7. Vadim237
                  Vadim237 11 December 2020 22: 50
                  0
                  But rather impotence that we will observe for at least another five years.
  • donavi49
    donavi49 10 December 2020 09: 34
    +11
    That is, was there a boy ??? Did you make a video of the astoroid on Tokiofilm?



    The landing was also captured, and it could be seen by anyone as a meteor.


    Hayabusa herself, due to fuel economy and new algorithms, as well as NS in case of additional maneuvers (which were not required), will fly to another asteroid. There is nothing good to waste.

    If this is a fake, then all scientific programs 70-80-90 are a guaranteed fake, where there were 3,5 muddy photos that can be made even without a large studio. wink Well, seriously, even the Chinese missions provide many times more public and diverse materials than any previous projects.

    Well, the same Musk will broadcast everything from 100 cameras in 8K. He will also fasten a couple of 360 panoramas. For he always does a show. You can watch the same broadcasts of conclusions before Falcon9. How sad everything was from 2-3 cameras, in terrible quality. And now even RK has poked cameras into unions. And all sorts of Becks are also experimenting, trying to surpass Mask in the show.
    1. Doctor
      Doctor 10 December 2020 09: 39
      0
      That is, was there a boy ??? Did you make a video of the astoroid on Tokiofilm?

      No, I believe of course. It's just not the moon. There only with control hemorrhoids should be incredible due to lag.
      AI has not been unambiguous. repeat
      1. donavi49
        donavi49 10 December 2020 09: 45
        +7
        And about that. This is how computers did everything. Just like ESA worked on the comet. They sent a set of tasks for 5-6 hours (work shift). We got the results. We studied and sent a new set of tasks. At the same time, on-board systems had different safety profiles and could act independently in a critical situation. For example, for stabilization, withdrawal from a sagged orbit, evasion from a debris or plume, etc.
  • Civil
    Civil 10 December 2020 09: 27
    -18%
    The Japanese delivered the soil from the asteroid (!), And then, to the delight of Rogozin, the Starship prototype exploded.
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 10 December 2020 11: 10
      -1
      Have you at least watched the video before sculpting the post?
      The Starship completed the entire mission.
      1. Cosm22
        Cosm22 10 December 2020 11: 55
        +4
        More or less like this. Except for the ending.
        But before the start I was more skeptical than Musk. If Elon rated the overall startup success rate as 33%, I gave it 15 to 25%. There were too many unknowns. The main one is the synchronization of the work of all three Raptors.
        Surprisingly, the engines did not fail.
        According to the program, SpaceX Starship SN8 after the start, after 2 minutes, the left and right engines disconnected from the camera, only one 42nd remained in operation, then it was turned off.
        Further fall into the horizon according to plan.
        But then it crashes after going up the vertical. The right and left engines started up and worked more or less normally, but less than the planned time. And the 42nd main did not start. Because of what the landing speed exceeded the calculated values ​​and the prototype collapsed.
        There are no complaints about the engines, they generally worked fine. The failure occurred after the SPT system switched to small tanks. The main cause of the malfunction is the low pressure in the head oxygen tank, because of this, the engines have problems.
        The finale is blurry, but the spectacle is enchanting.
        We look forward to continuing. The prototype SN9 is 100% ready, SN10 is approaching 100% ready, SN11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16 in the assembly process. There will be something to see.
  • NF68
    NF68 10 December 2020 18: 01
    0
    Quote: ALARI
    It will start now))


    Will Russia be blamed? Or someone else?
  • Victor_B
    Victor_B 10 December 2020 09: 00
    +8
    Despite the explosion, the head of SpaceX Elon Musk called the launch a success.
    In fact, having completed the ENTIRE flight program!
    But with the landing turned out to be a bummer.
    But Musk's experience of landing steps is many times greater than that of the rest of the world. Will finish.
    1. Nasrat
      Nasrat 10 December 2020 09: 10
      +2
      Quote: Victor_B
      [
      But Musk's experience of landing steps is many times greater than that of the rest of the world. Will finish.


      video 1:21:57 - we see that there are no fittings for landing .. - the device, at this stage of testing, was not intended for landing .. while the tanker with built-in engines was tested ... it is interesting to know the diameter of the nozzles from the engines ...

      1. Nasrat
        Nasrat 10 December 2020 09: 24
        +10
        By the way, the Americans, having "experience" in creating the F1 engine, the one that allegedly worked on Saturn-5, could use it and make one engine instead of three or six ... wink



        however, even Korolyov knew in the early 60s that US plans to create an engine with a 1 meter combustion chamber (for the same F-1) were doomed to failure. Since in the USSR back in the mid-50s it was established that if the combustion chamber has a diameter of more than 430 mm, it is impossible to achieve uniform combustion of rocket fuel, which inevitably leads to an accident. Therefore, Soviet engines had a combustion chamber diameter, as a rule, 380 mm.
        1. vadimtt
          vadimtt 10 December 2020 09: 37
          -2
          Here the trick is different, one engine is too dangerous - the parameters are extreme, but one engine is broken - and that's it. And here there is redundancy, even if a pair of engines fails (with a nominal quantity of 6 pieces), nothing fatal will happen, well, unless on SN8 they will fail at the most inopportune moment. Here, I think, everything will end with the editing of the software in order to minimize the destructive consequences of such an event (braking will start earlier and with lower thrust). All IMHO.
          1. vadimtt
            vadimtt 10 December 2020 19: 19
            +1
            I will add, according to the latest data, the entire system worked normally. The shutdown (loss of thrust) of the engines at the final stage occurred due to low pressure in the tanks. Those. just underfuel, perhaps with intent, so that the fireworks were not very large-scale.
        2. Roman070280
          Roman070280 10 December 2020 10: 05
          +1
          I have always wondered - a rocket loaded with a mass of three thousand tons .. How is the transfer of forces from the engine to the hull? What are the attachment points ?? How does this engine not get crushed under such a mass ?? In fact, it turns out that the rocket should be able to stand on the ground, relying only on these engines.
          1. Aviator_
            Aviator_ 10 December 2020 11: 10
            +1
            How is the transfer of forces from the engine to the body?

            It just happens as usual. This used to be called a sub-frame when the propeller was the propeller. In a liquid-propellant rocket engine, the nozzle is the mover, and from it the thrust is transmitted to the entire rocket structure.
            1. Roman070280
              Roman070280 10 December 2020 11: 28
              +4
              Well, damn it .. I understand that the rocket engine is a nozzle ..))
              But this nozzle presses (at Saturn) three thousand tons !!
              Above, a photo of the engine was posted - if you put 10 railway cars of coal on top of it (600 tons per 1 engine) - will it still stand safe and sound ??)

              shl. for comparison, in each car with a capacity of 60 tons there is a backbone - such a decent one .. the wall of the cars is also quite strong ..
              Well, the locomotive pulls a train of 3000 tons through an approved automatic coupler .. and most importantly, all the mass is supported by kilometers of rails and sleepers !! That is, the hitch takes only a small load of 3000 tons.
              If, in theory, the train is suspended in the air vertically behind the locomotive, I think it will simply burst ..)) And here the whole mass rests on a 9 ton engine ..
              1. Aviator_
                Aviator_ 10 December 2020 13: 44
                0
                But this nozzle presses (at Saturn) three thousand tons !!

                Presses. So what? The first space launch vehicle does not acquire immediately, but in the upper layers of the atmosphere, after discarding the spent stages. As for the example with a locomotive, do not confuse the strength of the railway track, on which all this stands, and the tractive effort of the locomotive, which accelerates the train. The hitch does not take the weight of the train at all. Well, if there are doubts about the 100-ton "Saturn", then there are also doubts about the 100-ton "Energy"? 100 tons is the payload of these launch vehicles.
                1. Roman070280
                  Roman070280 10 December 2020 15: 57
                  -1
                  The first space launch vehicle gets far

                  What does speed have to do with it? I'll drop a half-ton slab on you meeeeeedly .. will everything be okay with you ??)
                  Above, a photo of the engine was posted - if you put 10 railway cars of coal on top of it (600 tons per 1 engine) - will it still stand safe and sound ??)
                  It seems like it's not about speed ..


                  As for the example with a locomotive, do not confuse the strength of the railway track, on which all this stands, and the tractive effort of the locomotive, which accelerates the train.

                  And I don’t confuse any strength .. I’m just writing -
                  and most importantly, the entire mass rests on kilometers of rails and sleepers !! I.e the hitch takes only a small load from 3000 tons..
                  And even with such a support on the rails, the load on the coupling is colossal !! And then immediately the weight of the entire train puts pressure on the engine, which is higher in the photo !!

                  there are doubts about the 100-ton "Saturn", then the 100-ton "Energy" also doubts?
                  I have no doubts ..
                  The question sounded completely different:

                  How is the transfer of forces from the engine to the body? What are the attachment points ?? How is this engine not crushed under such a mass ??


                  1. Aviator_
                    Aviator_ 10 December 2020 19: 03
                    +1
                    How is the transfer of forces from the engine to the body? What are the attachment points ?? How is this engine not crushed under such a mass ??


                    Do you see the black structure? It is through it that the power is transferred to the rocket from the engine. The engine is not crushed because the weight is borne by this "sub-frame". Look at the course of strength.
                    1. Roman070280
                      Roman070280 11 December 2020 09: 41
                      -2
                      Do you see the black structure? It is through it that the power is transferred to the rocket from the engine.

                      I am aware of this frame ..
                      Two Kamaz trucks are towed on a rigid hitch - there is the same frame .. if not even thicker !!
                      In addition, if you ride an excavator from above, then not only the black design will doubt - but the white one too ..))


                      Look at the course of strength.
                      Wah, how smart we are ..))
                      Look at the automatic coupler from the train ..)) And the weight of the full loaded train !! To understand - what is 3000 tons !!
                      1. Aviator_
                        Aviator_ 11 December 2020 21: 59
                        0
                        I understood the meaning of your claims. Roman, you probably think that the booster is directly on the nozzle? - Not at all. In our country, for example, the rocket is suspended on the launch pad, standing on masts that cover the hull above the block of the first steps. This is where the power unit is located, which accounts for the entire starting weight. The masts diverge when the thrust of the engines exceeds the weight of the rocket. The Americans do not have rockets directly on the nozzles either, and no one else.
        3. Dmitry V.
          Dmitry V. 10 December 2020 10: 48
          +8
          Quote: Nasr
          even Korolev knew in the early 60s that US plans to create an engine with a 1-meter combustion chamber (in the same F-1) were doomed to failure. Since in the USSR back in the mid-50s it was established that if the combustion chamber has a diameter of more than 430 mm, then it is impossible to achieve uniform combustion of rocket fuel, which inevitably leads to an accident


          Why repeat nonsense from a pseudo-engineer without education, who under this "fact" refutes a flight to the moon?
        4. Dmitry V.
          Dmitry V. 10 December 2020 11: 12
          +2
          Quote: Nasr
          that the US plans to create an engine with a 1 meter combustion chamber (for the same F-1) are doomed to failure.


          The Americans do not know that :) that there is an "Apollo denier".

          In 2012, NASA awarded Dynetics a contract to study the feasibility of developing an affordable American-made accelerator engine based on the proven F1 on the Saturn V.



          “We said, 'Let's take this engine that we know works, but make it modern. Let's reduce costs and improve reliability, ”he added.

          This became possible thanks to new technologies and advanced production technologies. Huntsville's team used additive manufacturing - also called 15D printing - to create a critical engine component, the gas generator injector, in just 60 days, plus weeks of additional processing. In the 15s, it took XNUMX months to make a complex part. The new version is lighter and much cheaper.
      2. Blackmokona
        Blackmokona 10 December 2020 09: 36
        -5
        There are adaptations, small pull-out posts under the skirt.
        But the chance of a successful landing by Musk before launch was estimated at 33%. And what happened was called a great test success before launch.

        Compare UI Raptor and F1
    2. Kart
      Kart 10 December 2020 09: 10
      0
      If the money runs out, then they will finish it. And so they will cut endlessly.
      1. donavi49
        donavi49 10 December 2020 09: 24
        +4
        Compare with SLS or even VulcanCentaur in terms of development time. This barrel is the record for the pace of incarnation. wink ... Here SLS is a noble bank file.
        1. Kart
          Kart 10 December 2020 09: 25
          +2
          Space in general ... a notable sawmill. Especially in the USA
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 10 December 2020 11: 13
            +1
            Project Starship - money from Elon Musk's personal wallet. Is he sawing his wallet?
    3. OgnennyiKotik
      OgnennyiKotik 10 December 2020 09: 19
      +1
      Quote: Victor_B
      In fact, having completed the ENTIRE flight program!
      But with the landing turned out to be a bummer.

      They did not even think that it would be possible to plant, other things were tested. SN9 is already ready for a test flight, so it should already land normally. Spacex is quenching over this, live on Broadcast.
    4. Mountain shooter
      Mountain shooter 10 December 2020 10: 03
      +1
      Quote: Victor_B
      But with the landing, the bummer turned out

      Why then did they try to plant it? And not for the first time already ...
      In amers, I like the ability to "take a punch" ... You watch any Hollywood film - there is no living space on the main character, his eyes flowed out, his leg was torn off - to the question of how are you - the answer is - I'm fine ...
      The 6th ship explodes ... Everything is OK, guys, everything is according to plan!
      1. donavi49
        donavi49 10 December 2020 11: 24
        +8
        Why not? Well Musk said 30% probability. 30% is better than 0%. Why deliberately crash a ship when it can be crashed on landing with little chance of success. Again, the problem with the tank was revealed by an attempt to land. If they glided into the wing crash zone, the tank problem would have gone undetected.

        It’s not taking a hit, but squeezing everything out of every challenge. This is normal, because absolutely new is being done. How many dozen of Brown's rockets exploded in Germany? Because it's terra incognito.

        Therefore, they checked the tanks for rupture in situ, tearing apart the prototypes. A bunch of different problems fell out additionally, using the same assembly technology, which had to be completely redone. And there will be a bunch of explosions and broken CHs, I guarantee it wink .

        Well, that is, Musk deliberately abandoned any thread of safe Falcon11 LNG, which would allow him to dominate the launch market until the 50s, in favor of a revolutionary system that is not the fact that it will fly at all. But if it flies ...
    5. Alex777
      Alex777 10 December 2020 11: 29
      +2
      But Musk's experience of landing steps is many times greater than that of the rest of the world. Will finish.

      This is yes. If there is enough money, they will definitely finish it. hi
  • steelmaker
    steelmaker 10 December 2020 09: 02
    +18
    Once they carry out tests, it means they develop the space industry, they strive for something. A negative result is also a result. And Musk has proven that he is capable of achieving this goal. And to be glad that they didn’t succeed, and we don’t have anything at all, I don’t want to.
    1. Greenwood
      Greenwood 10 December 2020 09: 15
      +2
      There is no negative result. This is a prototype. In general, he worked out the jump program.
    2. Kart
      Kart 10 December 2020 09: 20
      +5
      Quote: steel maker
      And to be glad that they didn’t succeed, and we don’t have anything at all, I don’t want to.

      I mean, we have nothing?
      Oh, you have nothing.
      In Russia, the Soyuz-2 carrier is in second place in the list of output carriers:
      1. Vol4ara
        Vol4ara 10 December 2020 09: 43
        -1
        Quote: Carte
        Quote: steel maker
        And to be glad that they didn’t succeed, and we don’t have anything at all, I don’t want to.

        I mean, we have nothing?
        Oh, you have nothing.
        In Russia, the Soyuz-2 carrier is in second place in the list of output carriers:

        Who comes first? How long has he been on the second? And why is the name such a strange "union", we live in the Russian Federation, don't we?
      2. donavi49
        donavi49 10 December 2020 10: 12
        +4
        Now Falcon has 23 launches in 2020 more will be by train and Turksat2a, whether it flies or not, does not depend on Mask.

        25-26 for 2020.
        He will lose only to China - which will make 38-39 launches and 33-35 successful ones.

        Soyuz 2 currently has 13 launches and 2 more before NG.
    3. OgnennyiKotik
      OgnennyiKotik 10 December 2020 09: 28
      -4
      There are only positive results, they are happy, everything that was planned was done. Nobody expects SN8 to sit down. It was kind of a miracle.
      1. donavi49
        donavi49 10 December 2020 09: 48
        +2
        Well, Musk before launch (even before all transfers) gave 30% for landing and 50% for a successful return maneuver.
        1. OgnennyiKotik
          OgnennyiKotik 10 December 2020 09: 52
          -6
          Musk is optimistic about his forecasts, especially the timing. smile
  • Mykhalych
    Mykhalych 10 December 2020 09: 04
    -2
    Aliens !!! After all, they warned Trump - it's too early. (In another thread from me) They did not listen and here is the result. wink .
  • Fungus
    Fungus 10 December 2020 09: 11
    -4
    Chickens do not peck money. They can rivet and test hundreds of these ships. Moreover, all the supposedly private companies are actually affiliates of NASA. That is, under the state.
    1. 2 Level Advisor
      2 Level Advisor 10 December 2020 11: 26
      +1
      Well .. even if so (although for me it is not so) .. the main thing is the result is .. and who is there under whom and why and why, and what? the main thing is that there is RESULT, and there is progress every year ..
  • askort154
    askort154 10 December 2020 09: 12
    +6
    I was most surprised by the "launch pad". No cosmodrome facilities and gas outlets.
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 10 December 2020 09: 22
      +2
      There is a hidden infrastructure, but in general, the entire Starship was made in order to start from the Moon or Mars. And there all these masts and so on are expensive and difficult to build.
    2. OgnennyiKotik
      OgnennyiKotik 10 December 2020 09: 22
      -8
      Why are they needed? He spends his money, not the state. What is needed is a result, not a process.
  • Sergey Averchenkov
    Sergey Averchenkov 10 December 2020 09: 15
    -9
    Well? Now tell me about Rogozin. There are no shoals that does nothing.
    1. Greenwood
      Greenwood 10 December 2020 09: 32
      +2
      Quote: Sergey Averchenkov
      Now tell me about Rogozin
      He seems to have released a collection of poems. fellow
      1. Sergey Averchenkov
        Sergey Averchenkov 10 December 2020 09: 48
        -4
        I do not know. Apparently you are watching him very carefully.
        1. Greenwood
          Greenwood 10 December 2020 09: 50
          +2
          Quote: Sergey Averchenkov
          Apparently you are watching him very carefully.
          You asked, I answered. Leave your speculations to yourself.
  • rocket757
    rocket757 10 December 2020 09: 18
    0
    Question - What is or is not worth writing about?
    There are tests, experiments and .... in general, they do something, in fact they learn to take off, according to their own method, or what!
    There is nothing very new in that ...
    1. Cosm22
      Cosm22 10 December 2020 12: 03
      +3
      No new?
      Have you even got acquainted with the SpaceX Starship project? With its concept, goals, capabilities?
      This is a revolution in astronautics.
      If Starship flies, it will upset the entire space industry. In principle, all PHs will become unnecessary. All these Deltas, Unions, Protons, Hangars, Atlases, including Falcon 9 and Falcon Heavy of the Mask himself.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 10 December 2020 12: 22
        -2
        Quote: Cosm22
        This is a revolution in astronautics

        Plans differ from reality in that they still need to be implemented, proven.
        So far, learn to take off.
        When they FLY, then we will discuss where and what kind of revolution took place.
        I do not criticize, I do not belittle the significance of the project, I am waiting for the RESULTS.
        1. Cosm22
          Cosm22 10 December 2020 12: 57
          +4
          So the result is there. The prototype successfully took off and completed the flight program with the exception of landing. Apparently, the problem is in FTS after switching to small tanks. They will sort it out and eliminate it.
          Plans differ from reality in that they are only plans. About lunar bases, about his new OS and other pleasant things in the head of Mr. Rogozin.
          Reality is embodied in metal. In real starts. This is exactly what we see in the example with SpaceX Starship SN8.
          Musk is a man of action. Dreamer? Yes. So after all, Konstantin Eduardovich was like that.
          But the uniqueness of Musk is that he goes beyond a simple dream. He brings it to life. In record time and with enviable persistence.
          And about "that's when they will fly" ... How does it remind the verbal epic with the Falcon ... How did it end?
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 10 December 2020 13: 48
            -2
            Quote: Cosm22
            And about "that's when they will fly" ... How does it remind the verbal epic with the Falcon ... How did it end?

            The experts did not reason, it will / will not fly, doubted the economic benefits of the project.
            Quote: Cosm22
            So the result is there.

            Let's look from different angles ... if from the side of the plans, projects that you indicated .... while on the face, that before the implementation, proof of the reality of these, will have to wait.
            In the meantime, they are learning to overcome gravity! nothing new in general.
          2. rocket757
            rocket757 11 December 2020 06: 42
            +1
            What is the difference between a support group for the Chinese space program and a group called "witnesses to I. Musk"?
        2. Venya Selnikov
          Venya Selnikov 11 December 2020 12: 28
          +2
          The reasoning "when they fly, then we'll talk" has already led to the fact that SpaceX has grabbed almost all international commerce in space, its launch vehicle is now the most frequently flying in the world, and it is aiming to have the largest satellite constellation in space.
          Starship + Superhevy, even if Martian fantasies are put aside altogether, will allow him to break even more away from competitors.
          It will become a workhorse that can do in near space what no one else with those parameters (mass, launch speed, number of launches per year) can do.
          Only the launch vehicles will remain, which will be directly sponsored by the states to ensure the independence of national launches.
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 11 December 2020 13: 03
            0
            Quote: Venya Selnikov
            Reasoning

            Do you really think that it is OUR REASONS that led to this ???
            I would name other reasons and they have nothing to do with us present here.
            Quote: Venya Selnikov
            It will become a workhorse that can do in near space what no one else with those parameters (mass, launch speed, number of launches per year) can do.

            But this, so far, is not obvious ... if this happens, we all ... many, will applaud the new genius of aeronautics and scold, zhlo / B \ s from Roscosmos.
            In the meantime, boom in different ways to behave, to rejoice or grit your teeth ... but this is not a reason to throw at each other.
            Time will judge us.
            1. Venya Selnikov
              Venya Selnikov 11 December 2020 14: 03
              +1
              This is OUR CONSIDERATIONS that led?
              Not ours, of course, but they think so not only on the forums. Judging by the statements of our "experts" and the top management of Roskosmos, those people who are obliged to analyze the actions of competitors taking into account the prospects and act proactively, reasoned exactly the same way.
              And they not only reasoned, but also did nothing (more precisely, they continued to act according to their previous tasks and plans, without reacting to new threats).
              Which led to the current situation.
              Judging by the fact that SpaceX's work on Starship and Superhevy is either hushed up, or underestimated, or openly ridiculed at them, we risk (and very much, IMHO) only to increase the gap. This will be finally clear in 3-5 years.
              By industry standards - already tomorrow.
              But this, so far, is not obvious
              It is already quite obvious that Musk's team has the main thing that is needed - enthusiasm (not fading over time), competencies (constantly growing), perseverance and consistency.
              And their format of work - weak formalization, the absence of bureaucracy, the principles of a startup (in the field of R&D they still work in its format), flexibility of solutions, fast and cheap prototyping, and so on - leave no chance for any of the government offices to compete with them.
              Actually, even in China, it was private traders who were the first to try to copy the Mask. To at least catch up. Because the state structure is not the right format.
              1. rocket757
                rocket757 11 December 2020 14: 14
                0
                Quote: Venya Selnikov
                It is already quite obvious that the Musk team has the main thing that is needed - perseverance and consistency.

                This is just understandable and ... I would like to add - He who seeks will always find.
                Quote: Venya Selnikov
                Actually, even in China, it was private traders who were the first to try to copy the Mask. To at least catch up. Because the state structure is not the right format.

                This is like a controversial statement, because a lot depends on the long-term actions of the state.
                Quote: Venya Selnikov
                Judging by the statements of our "experts" and the top management of Roscosmos

                This question is generally dreary, I really want to resurrect a certain person who knew how to act effectively in stimulating everyone who needed it.
                Quote: Venya Selnikov
                And their format of work is weak formalization, lack of bureaucracy, principles of a startup (in the field of R&D they still work in its format),

                Nothing arises from scratch ... although no, the dune is effectively wasted, tyryat.
                In real cases, as a rule, the basis is real.
  • donavi49
    donavi49 10 December 2020 09: 20
    +2
    The initial landing success was 30% from Musk. Even before the start. For the implementation of the return program 55%.

    Therefore, it has been really successful so far. The turning maneuver was carried out without breaking apart. That is, the main strength moment was decided.

    9ki were also the first to crash on landing. And now it will fly eight times soon, and flew five times five times in 5 days from 198 to 1.
  • 9PA
    9PA 10 December 2020 09: 22
    -4
    Somewhere I saw a video about raptors returning stages, the concept of starship. The logical development of mankind. Of course, Max will be the first one who can deliver large cargo to Mars.
    1. Bourgeois 1963
      Bourgeois 1963 10 December 2020 10: 14
      -1
      Quote: 9PA
      Somewhere I saw a video about raptors returning stages, the concept of starship. The logical development of mankind. Of course, Max will be the first one who can deliver large cargo to Mars.

      Mars is of course good, but somewhere there was information that the Japanese and Musk are going to land a platinum asteroid. At the site of its landing, build a small asteroid processing plant, and Starship will transport platinum and rare earth materials to earth. The cost of the metals of the asteroid is more than $ 5 trillion. If all goes well, the Japanese and Musk will do an unprecedented business.
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 10 December 2020 11: 37
        0
        This is how it all goes.
  • Sergey Averchenkov
    Sergey Averchenkov 10 December 2020 09: 33
    +4
    Now you can clearly make out - who is here for the United States and who is for Russia ... You just need to look at the comments. Someone disagree with this? But in the end it is.
    1. Blackmokona
      Blackmokona 10 December 2020 09: 38
      -6
      At the moment, it is the only rocket that can make the colonization of Mars possible. So if you want a colony on Mars, cross your fingers for it.
      1. Sergey Averchenkov
        Sergey Averchenkov 10 December 2020 09: 50
        +2
        Colonization of Mars? Am I not quite sane, or are you? Are you at all?
        1. Blackmokona
          Blackmokona 10 December 2020 09: 52
          -5
          Yes, the colonization of Mars is the main goal of the Starship development. Fully reusable super-cheap two-stage rocket.
          The first stage is the Super Heavy booster, the second stage is the Starship ship. After entering the orbit of the Starship, the crowd-tankers refuel the piloted Starship to full, and he goes to Mars. On Mars, water and carbon dioxide will produce fuel that will fuel the rocket for a return flight. Upon its return, it will be possible to refuel it again, plant a new batch of colonists and go ahead
          1. Sergey Averchenkov
            Sergey Averchenkov 10 December 2020 09: 59
            -3
            That is, flooded to Mars? Have you lost your brains?
            1. Blackmokona
              Blackmokona 10 December 2020 10: 00
              -5
              What's the problem?
              1. Sergey Averchenkov
                Sergey Averchenkov 10 December 2020 10: 02
                -2
                Well at the moment it is not possible to fly to Mars. Are you saying otherwise?
                1. Blackmokona
                  Blackmokona 10 December 2020 10: 03
                  -2
                  At the moment, Mars rovers and satellites fly to Mars.
                  People need a bigger rocket, and they are making it now. Or what?
                  1. Sergey Averchenkov
                    Sergey Averchenkov 10 December 2020 10: 18
                    -5
                    Or what. If you have any brains ... God ...
                    1. Blackmokona
                      Blackmokona 10 December 2020 10: 21
                      -3
                      Well, I'm wondering what will prevent the colonists from reaching Mars when the rocket is ready, I don't see any obstacles.
                      By the way, Sergei Pavlovich Korolev also did not see, as did Von Braun.
                      Like now NASA, China, ESA and Rosskosmos.
                      1. Wedmak
                        Wedmak 10 December 2020 10: 43
                        +1
                        what will prevent the colonists from reaching Mars when the rocket is ready, I do not see any obstacles.

                        Radiation. By the end of the trip, either corpses or people with radiation sickness who are not capable of anything will arrive. After months in zero gravity, they will hardly be able to walk on Mars on their own. Any breakdown, not a normal situation - death, possibly slow, there will be no help. Now this is a one-way flight, if they still fly there, they will not be able to return back. Moreover, they will not be able to get fuel there, it is not a piece of ice to melt.
                        By the way, Sergei Pavlovich Korolev also did not see, as did Von Braun.

                        In his time, little was known about coalition belts, as well as about radiation in space in general.
                      2. loki565
                        loki565 10 December 2020 10: 58
                        +1
                        While there is no point in flying a man to Mars, only if you put a flag. There is a high probability that this will be a one-way flight and too much space is needed, equipment for human life support. It is more logical to send a robotic station, preferably with a nuclear reactor.
                      3. Blackmokona
                        Blackmokona 10 December 2020 11: 03
                        +2
                        According to the testimony of the spacecraft flying to Mars, there is no problem with radiation. They will fly even with a bare bottom out without radiation sickness
                      4. Wedmak
                        Wedmak 10 December 2020 11: 21
                        0
                        Suddenly. Are the spacecraft flying to Mars equipped with radiation detectors?
                      5. Blackmokona
                        Blackmokona 10 December 2020 11: 45
                        +2
                        Конечно.
                        https://www.vesti.ru/nauka/article/1038085
                        The Curiosity rover has studied the level of radiation on the Red Planet


                        The Radiation Assessment Detector (RAD), which is part of the apparatus and housed in the Curiosity rover, uses a mixture of silicon and plastic detectors to measure the level of both types of radiation - galactic and solar cosmic rays. The researchers converted the data obtained by the detector into sieverts, a unit for measuring the amount of energy absorbed by biological tissues. It was necessary to understand how radiation will act on the human body in space and on the surface of the Red Planet.

                        NASA space agency estimates astronauts' cancer risk in 3% when making a space trip to Mars. This is equivalent to 0,6-1 sievert for women and 0,8-1,2 sievert for men, provided they have never smoked and are between 30 and 60 years old.

                        During the 180-day flight to Mars, the team will receive radiation estimated at 0,331 sievert, and on the way back - 0,662 sievert.
                      6. Wedmak
                        Wedmak 10 December 2020 12: 13
                        -2
                        And then why so much talk about protection from radiation? Moreover, they are more afraid not of X-rays, but of gamma-ray bursts.
                      7. Blackmokona
                        Blackmokona 10 December 2020 12: 17
                        +4
                        Because when you don't want to allocate a budget, you need to come up with something to justify.
                        And even in the days of Korolev and Von Braun, it was possible to send ships to Mars.
                        At NASA, the entire office was packed with hundreds of super-heavy Martian rockets projects that the aircraft corporations generated. Whatever you want, at least 550 tons into orbit in full, many times. And in the warehouse lay a fully certified nuclear engine for a flight to Mars under the NERV project.
                        But all this cost a lot of money. And the case was closed. The United States has already extinguished the ass after the flag was inserted on the moon, but in our country, because of the showdowns and squabbles of the designers, the H-1s were fond of. And the new race did not take place because of the collapse of the USSR. Even though Energy made NASA nervous and start creating a new generation of Timberwind NRMs.
                        But the USSR collapsed, funding was stopped and everything died out.
                      8. Wedmak
                        Wedmak 10 December 2020 12: 47
                        -2
                        Because when you don't want to allocate a budget, you need to come up with something to justify.

                        This ... not a very adequate excuse would be if in the process of flight people die out of the blue. And only because someone did not consider it necessary to put radiation protection.
                        If on the ISS, only 400 km of some, under the protection of the Earth's magnetic field, cosmonauts receive an increased dose. Here somehow these 0,33 sievert looks rather weak.
                      9. Blackmokona
                        Blackmokona 10 December 2020 12: 58
                        +3
                        Weak or not weak, but such facts and instrument readings.
                        At the same time, the Starship still gets confused by the protection. Firstly, he will look with engines and fuel tanks towards the Sun. What will provide a multi-meter layer of protection from solar radiation. The second will be a shelter in case of solar flares inside the ship. Plus the hull itself and the loads that will surround the astronauts will be shields. But even without all this, the guys can fly back and forth.
                        It is also worth considering that colonization is a one-way journey, and NASA counts back and forth and back, it has twice the dose.
                        They also believe that it takes 180 days to fly. Starship, however, can take 115 days on average.
                  2. military_cat
                    military_cat 10 December 2020 13: 09
                    +3
                    Quote: Wedmak
                    And then why so much talk about protection from radiation?

                    Because these conversations are usually interested not so much in the problems of space flights as in the attempts to prove that the Americans were not on the Moon, and thus to calm the itchy resentment a little. And it seems to them that radiation is suitable for this purpose (if, at a minimum, pay attention to the results of real measurements).
            2. Machnamh
              Machnamh 10 December 2020 11: 22
              +1
              Quote: BlackMokona
              According to the testimony of the spacecraft flying to Mars, there is no problem with radiation. They will fly even with a bare bottom out without radiation sickness


              What are you, after all, how small. There will be no human flight to Mars at least in the 21st century. In the classical sense --- flew safely, landing, business, safe return ... In the 22nd century it is possible and will be. With a happy layout for earthly people. Well, you understand ---- without a world war, even in its covid-masked performance ... And there is nothing for a man to do there, on Mars that ... He and the Earth utterly dirtied. Let him first become worthy of his high title. And not the spiritless present entity.
            3. Wedmak
              Wedmak 10 December 2020 11: 27
              +1
              Yes, and there is nothing for a person to do there, on Mars then ...

              By the way, yes, what tasks besides sticking a flag into the ground should be done there? A piece of stone, with storms, sand and barely warming atmosphere.
            4. Machnamh
              Machnamh 10 December 2020 11: 30
              +4
              Quite right. And the funds will go enormous. It is better to spend this money on earthly affairs - desalination of water, for example. Otherwise, in 50 years, massive wars over water will begin. How to drink let it begin. With current applications.
            5. Dmitry V.
              Dmitry V. 10 December 2020 13: 13
              +3
              Quote: Machnamh
              desalination of water, for example. Otherwise, in 50 years, massive wars over water will begin. How to drink let it begin. With current applications.


              And that the evaporation of the world's oceans and rains are canceled? Run to fill up with 19 liters?
            6. Machnamh
              Machnamh 10 December 2020 13: 28
              +2
              Quote: Dmitry Vladimirovich
              And that the evaporation of the world's oceans and rains are canceled? Run to fill up with 19 liters?


              And what, on planet Earth, everything is so good with fresh water? It is needed for watering, but very little time will come and it will become a deficit for drinking. Even today, many are thirsty. That's it for a start ----- the Saudi peninsula, the mainland and the state of Australia, the atakama deserts there are different in a new light .... And mattress mats have their own Nevadas with mojave and sonors, too, are not spoiled with water, to put it mildly ... in general, you can remain silent. There is probably an excess of fresh water in Israel and it is cheap, so it strives to buy clean ice from the glaciers of Patagonia ... Do the Uzbeks and Turkmenians turn their gaze to the north, to the Siberian rivers? China to Baikal? Is everything in openwork in the Crimea with fresh water too? There are many, I repeat, places where it is already in short supply.
            7. Dmitry V.
              Dmitry V. 10 December 2020 13: 58
              +2
              China to Baikal :)) - do not repeat this nonsense from journalists.

              China - shifted water from south to north (in the north, the groundwater level dropped from 25 m to 250 m due to irrigation).

      2. Dmitry V.
        Dmitry V. 10 December 2020 13: 35
        +2
        Quote: Wedmak
        By the way, yes, what tasks besides sticking a flag into the ground should be done there?

        To this, Tsiolkovsky replied:
        "The planet is the cradle of the mind, but you can't live in the cradle forever."


        Source: https://ru.citaty.net/avtory/konstantin-eduardovich-tsiolkovskii/
        No - sit on ..op and wait for the potentially hazardous object to cover.

        10 Things You Should Know About Planetary Defense (10 Things You Should Know About Planetary Defense)
        https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.php?feature=7377
    2. Blackmokona
      Blackmokona 10 December 2020 11: 49
      0
      Why not. Vaughn Musk is already the second billionaire in captivity. I earned money for a comfortable life. Might consider writing yourself down in history in gold letters. Allocate 80-100 billion for the landing on Mars. Business then.
    3. Wedmak
      Wedmak 10 December 2020 16: 41
      0
      Allocate 80-100 billion for the landing on Mars. Business then.

      The experience of landing on other planets and survival will not appear from green papers. Want to be a pioneer? Without guarantees, even fly to Mars, let alone pass the sand there through your fingers.
    4. Blackmokona
      Blackmokona 10 December 2020 17: 37
      0
      I'm not against. All Soviet children dreamed of a heroic conquest of space through hardship and suffering. It is now immediately demanding economic benefits and a suite on Mars for at least a flight.
      Even in the 90s, everyone laughed like the American military cannot live without toilets, and now they are loudly broadcasting that the astronauts could not fly to the moon, because they did not have toilets. After all, you can't go into space without a toilet wink

      And you can hire specialists for pieces of paper to get them all. If you sit on the priest, nothing will appear.
    5. Wedmak
      Wedmak 11 December 2020 06: 07
      0
      And then sit on the priest exactly? Why do you turn my words upside down, but blindly believe the Mask? In addition to papers and scientists, technologies are needed to survive in a long flight. Technical, biological, moral, social, etc. Roscosmos has a lot of experience here. Which of these does Musk have? NASA-funded rockets and that's it. Can you even imagine what it is like to be in a closed tin can for a year and a half, with the same people? Where is NO personal space? Where can any chance be the last?
      This is not an apartment of 2-3-4 rooms where you live, even if you are a family. You have a way out every day, constant connection with other people, new sensations, smells, etc. There you will be locked for a year and a half in a small air bubble where the same thing happens every day. It is very easy to go there with a roof, and under those conditions it can become fatal.
    6. Blackmokona
      Blackmokona 11 December 2020 09: 33
      -1
      So the ISS has existed for more than a dozen years, a lot of data have been accumulated there. This data is publicly available.
      Isolation experiments also carried out a huge mass to them, Musk also has access.
      Musk also has military connections; those also have vast experience in using nuclear submarines.
      Etc
    7. Wedmak
      Wedmak 11 December 2020 12: 09
      0
      I mean, the ISS lived for a maximum year. An experiment was carried out for 500 days, the Americans experimented with something with a closed biosphere. And in every experiment, something went wrong. Unless the year on the ISS ended quite successfully.
      And here, Musk is such a hoba !!! It loads people onto a ship and sends them into deep space for a year and a half !! By the way, is he going to send his pepelats to Mars autonomously and return? So ... to consolidate his breakout?
    8. Blackmokona
      Blackmokona 11 December 2020 15: 54
      -2
      Yes, there will be a cargo mission of two Starships first. Only after success will people send her.
      And it went badly in the PR project Biosphere-2, where they took a little forest under the dome.
      But in the scientific project Bios and its sequels and analogues, everything went great
  • Venya Selnikov
    Venya Selnikov 11 December 2020 12: 42
    0
    You'd be surprised how many people would agree to volunteer to Mars, even if they clearly state in their contract a 1% probability of success to fly. And how many will be ready not only to become volunteers, but also to pay for it (almost everything they have).
    Nobody says that there are many of them, but tens of thousands across the Planet - I'm sure they will scrape together.
    Musk has repeatedly emphasized that he is making a MEANS of flying to Mars.
    And it is up to them to decide whether people will fly or not.
    Starship + Superhevy will make sense without Martian aspirations. The same Starlink in the development perspective without Superhevy will be extremely difficult to maintain. And with him - not so difficult. 2-3 Superhevy launches per year will replace dozens of Flacon launches.
  • 9PA
    9PA 10 December 2020 16: 00
    +1
    The pace of progress is accelerating, spirituality cannot fly into space
  • Simon schempp
    Simon schempp 10 December 2020 11: 14
    -2
    Radiation. By the end of the journey, either corpses or people with radiation sickness who are not capable of anything will arrive.

    Then why is all this done? Why are billions of dollars spent on developing new technologies? What are all these starships, Orions for? Are they really so stupid that they cannot understand the obvious things that Denis understands? Or is this all for a bobble drink? Or for show?
  • Wedmak
    Wedmak 10 December 2020 11: 22
    0
    This is the Mask ask. True, he is unlikely to answer you.
  • 9PA
    9PA 10 December 2020 15: 57
    0
    I think you could never have imagined the development of flights into space through the return stages. And what will happen in 10 years
    1. Wedmak
      Wedmak 11 December 2020 06: 08
      0
      This was proposed in the USSR, do not fantasize.
  • Greenwood
    Greenwood 10 December 2020 09: 51
    -1
    Turn off your jingoistic patriotism. It has nothing in common with normal patriotism and common sense.
    1. Sergey Averchenkov
      Sergey Averchenkov 10 December 2020 09: 55
      +1
      Can I keep it for myself? I want to leave.
    2. Narak-zempo
      Narak-zempo 10 December 2020 10: 34
      -7
      "Hooray patriotism" does not exist.
      There are patriots who act in the interests of strengthening the state.
      And there are liberals who are objectively working for its collapse, no matter what they say and even think to themselves. Because the size of their wishlist is incompatible with a strong state.
      The confrontation between liberals and patriots is a long history, from the time of the gathering of Russia around Moscow, from the times of Ivan the Terrible and Andrei Kurbsky, if not earlier.
      So "hurray-patriotism" is an ideological cliché invented by liberals, a weapon in the fight against real patriots.
      1. 2 Level Advisor
        2 Level Advisor 10 December 2020 11: 51
        +3
        eka you got carried away by the slogans, I will continue: whoever disagrees with me is the enemy of Russia, because - only I am a patriot and I know that the country needs .. the world is only black / white .. enemies around .. only I am right .. how many excuse yo? sixteen?
        if not .. then you just can easily get to know the "cheers-patriot" he is constantly in the mirror in your house laughing but to normal Patriots - no need to cling to, for example: radical Islam and normal, there is a big difference .. for radicals too: "whoever disagrees with me is the enemy .. the world is only black / white .. enemies around .. only I am right .. "
        P.S. why did you decide that if you run patriotic on the Internet with slogans, the country will strengthen? mental visualization type?
        1. Narak-zempo
          Narak-zempo 10 December 2020 13: 04
          -2
          Quote: Level 2 Advisor
          the world is only black / white

          The world is mostly gray because the majority is an indifferent mass that has no convictions at all.
          And yes, this gray mass can be used to produce fuel for the steam locomotive of history. Just take it with a shovel and throw it into the firebox. Only this "shovel" is really the ideas that certain radical forces are able to instill in the herd. The more effective the suggestion, the more fuel. Accordingly, whoever has more - he will drag history in his direction.
          1. 2 Level Advisor
            2 Level Advisor 10 December 2020 13: 50
            +2
            You know, beliefs are an interesting thing ..
            1. Here I am convinced that Russia is a historically great country, but I will never shout that the PM is the best pistol in the world, just because it is ours .. It is clear that from what I say, it will not become the best. ...
            2. I agree that the driving role in history is assigned to exceptional leaders, not to the "gray mass". Yes it is. But where does hurray-patriotism? Don't you think that shouting "hurray" maybe you are the "gray mass" that someone is throwing into the furnace of history with a "shovel"? and there are those who inspired ideas, did not think? Why are you so confidently hailed patriots as leaders, on what grounds?
            1. Narak-zempo
              Narak-zempo 10 December 2020 15: 11
              0
              Quote: Level 2 Advisor
              Why are you so confidently hailed patriots as leaders, on what grounds?

              And where did I write them down as leaders?
              This is just the fuel. And it would be nice if it burned out before the switch with "caps will be thrown" to "stupidity or treason?"
        2. Poganini
          Poganini 10 December 2020 19: 02
          +1
          Well, yes, the country will be strengthened by the fact that you water it with mud. Come on, in essence, who would argue, but, unfortunately, the protestors have few facts, but there are more than enough emotions and fakes (or even outright lies).
          1. 2 Level Advisor
            2 Level Advisor 10 December 2020 19: 11
            0
            and in more detail it is possible, Sergei .. where is the dirt and lies that I said and watered my COUNTRY, the facts about which you speak, will you bring? and the second question: will the country be strengthened by the fact that caps fly up and down? does the desired materialize directly from joyful shouts? Or maybe for a productive dialogue, it is necessary to recognize the shortcomings / miscalculations of those in power, think about ways to solve them and prevent them in the future for the good of the COUNTRY?
            1. Poganini
              Poganini 10 December 2020 19: 24
              -1
              Nikolai, as you hopefully understand, is a plural pronoun. Accordingly, it refers to the average communities of people: liberals and guard patriots. I can’t say anything about you personally, it’s only the 2nd day on the site (although I’m reading, of course, longer). But somehow you personally have not yet settled in your memory. ) I will look further, if anything, do not hesitate - I will immediately say both about lies and about dirt. And what, some of the normal people (patriots) do not recognize the authorities' miscalculations? We are simply against the indiscriminate moaning of the innocent and the punishment of the innocent. Well, I am especially outraged by direct lies, which opponents do not disdain.
              1. 2 Level Advisor
                2 Level Advisor 10 December 2020 19: 57
                -1
                there is anything on the site - I do not argue: both trolls and very smart, experienced people .. for me, both all-pervading and hurray-patriots - one field of berries - after all, the truth, as always, is in the middle .. I am glad to welcome on the site hi
                1. Poganini
                  Poganini 10 December 2020 21: 19
                  -1
                  Thank you, Nikolay. ) For me, all the same, all the propals are worse. Although I agree that this is taste. )
            2. SovAr238A
              SovAr238A 10 December 2020 21: 32
              +4
              Quote: 2 level advisor
              and in more detail it is possible, Sergei .. where is the dirt and lies that I said and watered my COUNTRY, the facts about which you speak, will you bring? and the second question: and the country will be strengthened from the fact that caps fly up and down? ?


              No.
              It's just that thieves will realize from the sight of these caps that they have not yet stolen everything and have not taken everything away ...
              And all these cap throwers are paid for by thieves.
      2. SovAr238A
        SovAr238A 10 December 2020 12: 09
        +11
        Quote: Narak-zempo
        "Hooray patriotism" does not exist.
        There are patriots who act in the interests of strengthening the state.
        And there are liberals who are objectively working for its collapse, no matter what they say and even think to themselves. Because the size of their wishlist is incompatible with a strong state.
        The confrontation between liberals and patriots is a long history, from the time of the gathering of Russia around Moscow, from the times of Ivan the Terrible and Andrei Kurbsky, if not earlier.
        So "hurray-patriotism" is an ideological cliché invented by liberals, a weapon in the fight against real patriots.


        Hurray-patriotism is a far-fetched phenomenon.
        It develops in people with an extremely weak level of general education, incapable of obtaining information, its comprehensive analysis, incapable of looking at the system as a whole, paying attention only to loud headlines, easily perceived slogans and slogans.
        They have extremely low self-esteem inside, who are trying to realize themselves at someone else's expense, insulting other countries, other armies and everything else.

        The hat-covering, which in reality simply does not have any basis, is simply fantastically developed.


        That is why we all see in the arguments of the "hurray-patriots":
        1. The whole world is in dust.
        2. Nobody will leave the atomic bomb.
        3. Strategic aviation has value in nuclear strikes.
        4. One Caliber - one ship, one Dagger, one aircraft carrier.
        5. Poseidon will wash away half of the USA.
        6. Drones are bullshit.
        7. Stealth does not exist.
        8. ZGRLS - sees everything that is read in the newspapers in Trafalgar Square.
        9. Khibiny - extinguish Cook.
        10. Any users of Russian weapons. except for the Russians - ridiculous fools. if there were ours, they would show everyone the class.

        and so on, and so on, and so on ...
        And they all clump together.
        They come running as if on command in one article.
        They instruct themselves a bunch of pluses, and mercilessly minus those who do not agree with them.

        But in other articles where there is at least some kind of technical component - there are no "hurray-patriots" at all.
        For well, they do not understand anything and they cannot say anything on the topic in principle.
        This is just an indicator of what I wrote about above. About actual illiteracy.
        1. Cosm22
          Cosm22 10 December 2020 13: 03
          +2
          The main thing on the list is missing - the Apollo flights were filmed in Hollywood, the Americans have never been on the moon.
        2. region58
          region58 10 December 2020 13: 26
          +1
          Quote: SovAr238A
          and so on, and so on, and so on ...

          You forgot the most important thesis, especially if in the context of the article:
          ...
          11. The Americans did not land on the moon, it's all Hollywood production ... wink

          For some reason, in recent years, the fact of landing has become such an indicative irritant for some. I suspect that against the background of the rather modest successes of Roscosmos (maybe for objective reasons). Especially IMHO.
        3. Poganini
          Poganini 10 December 2020 19: 05
          -2
          It develops in people with an extremely weak level of general education, incapable of obtaining information, its comprehensive analysis, incapable of looking at the system as a whole, paying attention only to loud headlines, easily perceived slogans and slogans.
          What a wonderful description of both the liberal and the patriot guard! Neither subtract nor add. Did you paint from nature, from yourself? )
      3. Poganini
        Poganini 10 December 2020 18: 52
        -1
        Unfortunately, this site is not even dominated by liberals, but by patriotic sentries (let's call them svarogs in general). IMHO, they are even worse than the liberals (although, it would seem, how much worse?), Because they pretend to be patriots. But in fact, some are attacking from the left, others from the right, normal people and our country. The funny thing is that the leaders of both are paid from the same wallet. Well, ordinary narrow-minded fighters do not reflect, they spread.
        1. SovAr238A
          SovAr238A 10 December 2020 19: 56
          +2
          Quote: Poganini
          Unfortunately, this site is not even dominated by liberals, but by patriotic sentries (let's call them svarogs in general). IMHO, they are even worse than the liberals (although, it would seem, how much worse?), Because they pretend to be patriots. But in fact, some are attacking from the left, others from the right, normal people and our country. The funny thing is that the leaders of both are paid from the same wallet. Well, ordinary narrow-minded fighters do not reflect, they spread.


          Why Svarogi?
          Is this how you interpret Old Russian history?
          Or do you just not like the forum user - Svarog?

          So he is actually an extremely honest person.
          He writes and says what is in fact.
          and never lies.
          Doesn't embellish.
          But it does not denigrate either.
          I also had a lot of "snacks" with him on this site - but the above is my observation about his posts.


          I don't know where he lives, but in my life I see the same thing that he writes about.

          So why, if we see one thing, then should we either not notice it, or perceive it as different?
          1. Poganini
            Poganini 10 December 2020 20: 07
            -1
            I'm talking about a specific person who personifies himself ... I'm a beginner, and he always lies about the account, or I can't always say. But exactly yesterday he lied blatantly and rudely about the fact that Russia is dying out under Putin. Accordingly, a liar can never be an extremely honest person, this is a catachreza. The problem is that when we look at the same OBJECTIVE reality, we see a completely different picture. We see a developing, wealthy country, roads, bridges, factories, nuclear tugs, new civilian ships and airliners, they see ruined villages, impoverished populations, destroyed factories. Moreover, the authorities are strictly to blame for this. Just some kind of collective schizophrenia.
            1. SovAr238A
              SovAr238A 10 December 2020 21: 30
              +4
              Quote: Poganini
              I'm talking about a specific person who personifies himself ... I'm a beginner, and he always lies about the account, or I can't always say. But exactly yesterday he lied blatantly and rudely about the fact that Russia is dying out under Putin. Accordingly, a liar can never be an extremely honest person, this is a catachreza. The problem is that when we look at the same OBJECTIVE reality, we see a completely different picture. We see a developing, wealthy country, roads, bridges, factories, nuclear tugs, new civilian ships and airliners, they see ruined villages, impoverished populations, destroyed factories. Moreover, the authorities are strictly to blame for this. Just some kind of collective schizophrenia.



              Wait.
              I just have some kind of cognitive dissonance.
              We live in the same country.
              But we see such different things.
              There are just 2 ways to explain what you wrote.
              The first way - you deliberately emphasize "superiority" where, in fact, it does not exist. thus, in the eyes of people who see at least something, you kill faith in the state, faith in patriotism, faith in reality. A kind of trolling from "enemies", which driving "urya-patriotism" to the point of absurdity - destroys real patriotism and incites discontent among the masses.

              The second way is that you are an absolutely dense person, divorced from reality, who lives on retirement, looks destructive, never goes out. does not communicate with neighbors, does not buy food itself, does not see in one word the environment of his reality.

              Wait.
              Those. you think that the decline in the share of the indigenous population of Russia, and its replacement by people who came from Kyrgyzstan, Armenia, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, etc. - a lie?
              Nuclear tugs -? Don't you realize that this is populism?
              Where is the country getting richer?
              I'll repeat my example. 2017, I'm looking for drivers in Noyabrsk for a Chevrolet Niva car.
              When I announced the figure of 45 thousand, but in fact, 50-70 tyr. - they sent me and laughed. I couldn't find a driver for a month.
              Until a man was caught, a former specialist from Baker Hughes, who was left out of work after the sanctions and the departure of Western companies, and who needed to pay mortgages and feed his family.
              And when I'm looking for drivers now. then for my vacancy of 35 thousand, in my scanty November - 50 people for the place of the competition.
              Getting richer?

              What kind of airliners? Those. which are sold to our airlines at prices 2 times lower than the prime cost. and the downtime of which from the lack of spare parts and flights is paid by the state that has undertaken such obligations?
              But the destroyed villages have not gone anywhere.
              I recently bought myself a house in the village of Zerekla, Orenburg region with 50 acres of land and my own well 200 meters only to take it apart and take it to a relative for firewood.
              I bought this house for 5000 (five thousand (rubles is an excellent five-walled. Just because this village is dying out.
              In my native village "Saray-Gir" of the Matveyevsky district of the Orenburg region, 50 cows remain, of which 45 are from the farmer, the rest simply stopped growing vegetables and fruits, because the real costs of their meat are 600 rubles a kilogram, their tomatoes and their cucumbers are 300-500 ... If you take into account all the hatrats for hay, grain, greenhouses, planting material, etc.

              When was the last time you were on the distance between Zlatoust and Yekaterinburg?
              There used to be a lot of factories, but now there is a huge pile of unemployment, such places as Zlatoust, Kyshtym, Kasli - it's all over.
              1. Poganini
                Poganini 10 December 2020 22: 00
                -3
                Well, you see, you perfectly confirmed my amazement. For now we will refrain from assessing my personality (although I will say right away - I have a certificate that I am smart)). Let's get down to your "statements".
                1) provide the facts of substitution, unfounded statements are not accepted. However, even if this is confirmed, I am not a racist or a Nazi. And you?
                2) What populism, where did you get this? The car is being built, recently there were the first photos from the final assembly shop.
                3) Get richer. This is evidenced by apartments scattering like pies and a bunch of new buildings of cottages. And the cars are being dismantled. And your particular example does not speak at all about anything like any particular example, do you really not understand this? My son was looking for an employee for 120 thousand rubles and for a month there was not a single appeal.
                4) I do not believe unfounded statements. Link pliz that the Superjet is sold below cost. Azimut Rostov has no downtime and a mad raid for a regional leader, and everything plows like clockwork. Repeatedly flew to Rostov on it - a wonderful plane. Although I had more in mind MS-21 - our final ticket to the major league of civil aircraft construction, in which, besides us, there is only one country and a conglomerate from very rich countries. Not bad, huh ?.
                5) The village is dying out. Already a little confused, your Internet seems to be functioning, how do you manage not to notice the simply frantic growth rates of agricultural exports? Do you even know that in this year the agrarians will bypass not only our pride - the military-industrial complex, but also Gazprom in terms of export volume? This is probably all the dead peasants are doing?
                6) Do you know what new huge factories are being launched in the country? Well, there are things like the Tikhvin transport engineering plant, the largest in Europe, the Zvezda shipyard, the giant Zapsibneftekhim (these are previously spent polymers), but you can't list everything, you will get tired.
                I live in such a country, and not in some fictional backward, dying out and impoverished, in which you live.
              2. Iris
                Iris 10 December 2020 23: 48
                +1
                It is scary and painful to see the truth if the heart is squeezed from such a truth about your country. Therefore, it is easier not to see. To go into numbers according to Rosstat's proprietary method: to respond to evidence of dead empty villages - and cities in some places - with an increase in agricultural exports in percentage terms, and to facts of extinction - with an increase in average hospital life expectancy.
                Someone just drinks so as not to see and remember. And real talents are so controlled with their imaginations that they don't need anything - just a couple of numbers from the TV. The essence is only the same: both are an escape from reality.
                1. Poganini
                  Poganini 11 December 2020 10: 29
                  -3
                  True, this is what I wrote. And you write some kind of emotional nonsense. There are no facts of extinction. The fact is that the average life expectancy is increasing. And this is just for you - an escape from reality into some kind of horror movie, where everything is gloomy and hopeless. Fortunately, this is not the case, no matter how you throw mud at your country.
              3. andrew42
                andrew42 11 December 2020 16: 42
                0
                SovAr238A, yes it is useless to try to call on Poganini to "open his eyes". You are talking about population decline (not covered by migrants), - he is about some "objective" reality of a news nature. You say "black" because "the earth is wasted", - he says "white", because they announced that something was laid somewhere: "... and to the recruits to lie loudly that a firecracker is prepared, this is how they will score, yes, they will ignite ... "(K. Simonov). Most of today's "statesmen" are such perky paper souls, and everything is OK in THEIR state. And if I disagree about the dress of the naked king, then slapping the label of "all-consuming" or "bulk" does not matter. Everything is according to the guarantor's covenant - "Our ideology is Patriotism", and does not ... bother.
                1. Poganini
                  Poganini 12 December 2020 08: 01
                  -1
                  Andrey, isn't it a shame to twist and turn everything upside down? It is we, normal people, who always rely on FACTS! The fact is that in 2000 (when Putin came) there were 146 million Russians, and in 2020 there were also 146 million Russians. The fact is also that this year the export of agricultural products will exceed $ 20 billion, and not your "land is wasted". These are facts! And not your unsubstantiated emotionality and outright lies.
                  1. andrew42
                    andrew42 12 December 2020 14: 06
                    +2
                    No, I'm not ashamed. Not at all ashamed. For me, the facts are not Rosstat's "Potemkin villages", but the number of children in an average Russian family, moreover, children receiving a good education, normal healthy food (not surrogates), medical care, and development of abilities. For me, facts are the standard of living of the elderly. Looking at the notorious "half-glass" you are trying to convince that it will be filled. It's your right. And I believe that these "half-glass" will continue to be sucked out. And this is my right. The difference is that I will only be glad if (oh suddenly a miracle!) I turn out to be wrong. but if you are wrong, then my people will never feel anything.
                    1. Poganini
                      Poganini 12 December 2020 14: 35
                      0
                      You can already start to rejoice, because you are wrong, and I am right. ) This is a joke, but there is only a fraction of a joke in it. To draw the right conclusions, you need to watch the process in dynamics. And in dynamics Russia (despite the failures that occur, as a rule, together with the whole world), everything is going very well. Therefore, she really needs calm years of development in order to take the leading positions not only in the size and structure of the economy, but also in the standard of living of people. My sons are ordinary guys with ordinary professions. And they have three children. They live well, much better than I did in their years. And I do not want all sorts of "liberalists" to prevent my children from continuing to live a normal life. All the more striking example at hand, when the same narrow-minded came out on the Maidan against the oligarchs. They also wanted the best, but it turned out as always.
                    2. andrew42
                      andrew42 12 December 2020 15: 09
                      +1
                      "in the dynamics of Russia" -? - I don't see anything positive in the dynamics. Soon we will buy 100% of hardware in China (this is as a marker for everything else macro). "Therefore, she really needs calm years of development" - 15 calm years are flushed down the toilet. The only achievements are the development of the resource-export sector and the forced modernization of the Armed Forces to an acceptable level, as far as possible, to protect the assets of the ruling "new lordship", and by no means for "ordinary guys with ordinary professions." As for pride in children and grandchildren, you are certainly great, but in the topic of the state it sounds, forgive me, in a babe. The state is not only a folder of paper laws. it is also society in the first place, - this is a contract between husbands, and if only his own sons are important to a husband and only his own sons are important to him, then who will stand by the shoulder with your grandchildren? As for the "livolutionaries" and "maidans": then the Maidan is a purely Nazi phenomenon, and Nazism is an instrument of the highest Capital, to which it resorts in conditions of extreme necessity, these "Maidans" are a product of the bourgeois system and nothing more. In addition, the "livolutionaries" like Yeltsin-Travkin-Gaidar-Chubais and beyond do not bother you for some reason, they probably brought you personally stability and prosperity. On the whole, I understand the futility of discussing with you - people practically do not change from childhood to their deathbed, except that a good "stroke of fate" can cause microscopic enlightenment, but very rarely.
                    3. Poganini
                      Poganini 12 December 2020 16: 12
                      0
                      I have had so many of these "good" hits that it will be enough for another for several lives. But no blows will ever turn me away from the standpoint of common sense and logic, I am a physicist, not a humanist, and I do not need emotions. There are so many positive things in the dynamics that I just get lost, how, well, how can you not notice it !? Agricultural exports are growing at a frantic pace (and not only grain, but also finished products), recently launched a giant Zapsibneftekhim (hello previously spent polymers), a huge Zvezda shipyard (they took 2nd place in the world in shipbuilding, ahead of China), MS 21 with native engines. Yes, even the way the country instantly launched the production of test systems for Covid and riveted vaccines (very high-tech and high-tech products) should have alerted you: I probably imagine something wrong in this life. Not alarmed?
                    4. Lex_is
                      Lex_is 12 December 2020 17: 57
                      +1
                      huge shipyard Zvezda took the 2nd place! place in the world in shipbuilding, ahead of China


                      Wow!
                      This is a direct masterpiece of propaganda lies!
                      Let's see how this wonderful breakthrough took place:

                      In the first half of 2020, the total volume of shipbuilding in China amounted to 3,51 million CGT or 145 ships, South Korea - 1,18 million CGT (37 ships), Japan - 570 thousand CGT (36 ships).
                      In June 2000, the world market was also dominated by China with 460 thousand CGT (16 vessels). It was followed by South Korea - 250 thousand CGT (4 vessels) and Taiwan - 40 thousand CGT (one vessel). The total volume of world shipbuilding in June 2020 amounted to 820 thousand CGT (30 ships).
                      regnum.ru


                      Where is the Zvezda shipyard?
                      But there is no her.
                      But in the 3rd quarter of the Zvezda shipyard, through Vnesheconombank, contracts were placed for the construction of 15 gas carriers, and in terms of the volume of orders concluded in the 3rd quarter, they came in second in the world, ahead of China.
                      There is only a slight difference between the conclusion of the contract and the launched vessel. And at Zvezda, after scratching their turnips, they began to think how to fulfill these paid orders and ...
                      We signed a construction contract with Samsung!

                      In November, the Zvezda shipyard signed an agreement with South Korean Samsung Heavy Industries on the supply of components for five Arctic LNG-2 gas carriers. The amount of the transaction is about $ 1,5 billion, that is, the scope of work of the Korean shipyard for one gas carrier may be about 75% of the final cost of the vessel
                      .

                      Here is such an economic miracle.
                    5. Poganini
                      Poganini 12 December 2020 18: 34
                      -1
                      And what's the lie ??? )) Well, I brought the Star as ONE of many examples, perhaps not the most successful one. Who cares? There are dozens of such examples. The fact that we are No. 1 in NPP construction, No. 1 in medium-sized transport helicopters, No. 1 in thin-walled carbon nanotubes and in a bunch of other high-tech science-intensive industries. And you talk like an institute only one thing; vyvsevreti. I understand you don't live in Russia?
                    6. Lex_is
                      Lex_is 12 December 2020 18: 42
                      +1
                      The lie is that the star did not even come close to any 2nd place in terms of volume, she was just immediately driven into a huge amount of money for which she re-ordered ships from Samsung, putting the difference in her pocket.

                      Wait, to jump off the spaceships plowing the vastness of the universe.
                      Tell us about Zvezda.
                      How many ships and with what total tonnage did this world record holder launch in 2020?
                    7. Poganini
                      Poganini 12 December 2020 20: 56
                      0
                      That's right, they drove her volume and she came into second place, what's the lie ???
                      Have you been banned from Google? Look for yourself what and how she lowered, to whom and where - the poor servants have no.
                      You got to the bottom of the Star, although I clearly told you that there are dozens of examples of Russian leadership. Because the Russian Federation is the 4th economy of the planet, and it has a bunch of advanced industries.
                      So where do you live?
                    8. Lex_is
                      Lex_is 12 December 2020 22: 09
                      +1
                      That's right, they drove her volume and she came into second place, what's the lie ???

                      For the gifted:
                      She did not come out in volume, she took money, 75% of which she distilled into the economy of Korea, Samsung, which will build ships, and 10-15% of which will settle in the pockets of respected people with bright faces.
                      In relation to smaller firms, the investigation qualifies such acts with the state procurement as fraud.
  • 2 Level Advisor
    2 Level Advisor 10 December 2020 11: 43
    -2
    and what are our rocket to Mars and the Americans building in a race? and Russians root for Americans?
    here you can clearly make out who understands that this is a step forward for all mankind and who lives "in the head in the USSR" and competes with the United States, although the USSR has not been there for 30 years, and the Russian Federation is unable to win in this segment, since it is not trying even try .. And then I'm more likely for the Japanese - they sit on comets over there ..
  • Poganini
    Poganini 10 December 2020 18: 44
    -2
    You can make it out in any topic. ) Unfortunately, on this site for the United States, for some reason, there is always more. I haven't figured out how this is possible yet, but it's a fact.
  • Iris
    Iris 10 December 2020 22: 54
    0
    Is it possible to support "the exploration of outer space for the benefit of all mankind" by the joint efforts of specialists from all countries? Kindly provide a separate category for me personally hi
  • Vladimir Vladimirovich Vorontsov
    Vladimir Vladimirovich Vorontsov 10 December 2020 09: 36
    -2
    ***
    They study on ships ...
    ***
  • Tsoy
    Tsoy 10 December 2020 09: 38
    -4
    Multiple starts of new methane engines have done. There is also a control system check. Maneuvering the rocket to a horizontal position - it worked, nothing fell apart.
    Couldn't plant a little. Management worked until the very end. The engines are to blame, not the attitude control systems.


    China, too, will soon begin to return the stages from the cz9 launch vehicle. And there is no need to remember Rogozin since the train has already left. ULA needs to worry more. Blue origin, despite all expectations, has never launched a single missile. What will happen to the BE engines is not clear.
    1. Blackmokona
      Blackmokona 10 December 2020 09: 44
      -3
      Musk has already announced that the problem is in the landing methane fuel tank, the pressure there was too low and the fuel stopped going into the engines at the required speed
    2. donavi49
      donavi49 10 December 2020 09: 51
      +1
      ULA has Deltas, they pay off the whole shop. True, if the new administration kicks out lobbyists for old-school American missiles at 180/400 + million per launch, then here, yes, an abrupt end. For the only customer is the budget. Atlas will not take out - there, too, with launches everything is extremely difficult, mainly NASA, joint programs and a couple of military men a year. But there is almost no oil to squeeze out from the rocket, ~ 100-115 mln.
  • zwlad
    zwlad 10 December 2020 09: 46
    -2
    Well done! But they really will rush to Mars! And this is no longer a fantasy!
    1. eklmn
      eklmn 10 December 2020 16: 36
      +1
      “But they really will rush to Mars! "
      But first the moon!
      NASA Selects 18 Astronauts to Prepare for Artemis Moon Landing
      https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nasa-astronauts-artemis-moon-mission/
      “NASA announced Wednesday that eighteen astronauts - nine men and nine women - have been selected to begin preparations for Artemis's upcoming missions to the moon. The list includes the as-yet-unnamed next man and the first woman to set foot on the lunar surface this decade. ”
  • Narak-zempo
    Narak-zempo 10 December 2020 09: 57
    -3
    Something went wrong ©.
    And what, where are the screams about the lost polymers? About the cuts, about the fact that Mask is on trial?
    Or do you not understand this other thing?
    1. Blackmokona
      Blackmokona 10 December 2020 10: 02
      0
      Just before the launch, Musk said that what happened would be a huge success, and the chances of landing were small.
      So to speak, I immediately set expectations.
      And they are already starting to make SN-17 there, they have nowhere to store prototypes
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 10 December 2020 15: 04
        0
        And that these prototypes will be made of stainless steel, they can be stored in the open air for years.
  • Dmitry V.
    Dmitry V. 10 December 2020 10: 00
    +2
    I understand everything - tests, verification of the established return concept, verification of engine cut-off and start-up.
    Start the third engine - it would be enough to extinguish the speed during landing, but the pressure of the combustion products from the three engines may not withstand the shell of the engine compartment.
    At the next start, the alignment height will be adjusted - that's not the question.

    The approach to saving is very confusing - when the Falcon-9 with the Crew Dragon is refueled with the crew on board.
    It is clear that the lower the oxygen temperature, the more it will fit into the oxidizer tank by weight - but refueling with a crew on board is always an increased risk.
    Relying on an emergency rescue system - the development of emergency events is so fast that it is not always possible to react.
    Sorry - the Nedelin effect ...
    1. Blackmokona
      Blackmokona 10 December 2020 15: 46
      -1
      There was already an explosion of Falcon 9 on the launch pad. As practice has shown, PN did not suffer before hitting the ground
  • sergej987
    sergej987 10 December 2020 10: 05
    -5
    Yes, and do not care. As with the Apalons, it explodes 2 times and then just 100500 trouble-free flights to the moon.
  • Dmitry V.
    Dmitry V. 10 December 2020 10: 44
    +4
    For the flight on the Union, NASA paid Roscosmos about $ 86 million, Musk takes $ 58 million for a seat.
    Musk is working on a second medium.

    Since 2006, Roscosmos has received about $ 4 billion for seats in the Unions ...
    And what did Roscosmos build on them? Where is the Federation ship?
    In addition to the songbook from the head of Roscosmos, what will please?
    1. Wedmak
      Wedmak 10 December 2020 11: 01
      -1
      Let me remind you: Roskosmos has built a NEW cosmodrome and continues to build the second stage for the Angara. Hangars are being tested, the second start is coming soon. The project is complex, there is little funding, hence the delays. At the same time, the Union was greatly modernized. And so far we have the most reliable ships. They also make a Federation, now the Eagle. But again, funding. It's not enough. Give Roskosmos money, as much as they give Musk, everything will be fine.
      1. Dmitry V.
        Dmitry V. 10 December 2020 11: 17
        +1
        Quote: Wedmak
        I remind you: Roskosmos has built a NEW cosmodrome and continues to build the second stage for the Angara.

        this is not the one they write about -
        Vostochny Cosmodrome $ 7.5 billion - 4 times more expensive than the American Cosmodrome in Florida.


        I knew one contractor - who became terribly rich at this "construction site"
        1. Wedmak
          Wedmak 10 December 2020 11: 24
          +2
          The problem of theft is also a problem in the United States. But you also forgot the location: warm Florida with convenient roads and infrastructure and the back of the world, where the taiga was impassable to the East. Again de game with numbers - when was the cosmodrome built in Florida and when in Vostochny?
          1. Dmitry V.
            Dmitry V. 10 December 2020 11: 49
            +3
            Quote: Wedmak
            warm Florida


            I would say - swampy Florida, with regular tropical hurricanes and strong breezes, which narrow the starting window more significantly than the weather conditions in the middle lane.

            The Vostochny cosmodrome was also built in an accessible area to the railway and the tariff for the transportation of special cargo, and the cost of the branch to the cosmodrome is on the conscience of the builders.

            The main problem of Vostochny is the cost of launches and archaic prelaunch complexes.
            SpaceX's launch infrastructure is not even several times - much cheaper ^
            cheap launch pad
            cheap conveyor from the assembly shop

            Vostochny - each rocket has its own unique launch - and very, very cheap.

            1. Wedmak
              Wedmak 10 December 2020 12: 02
              +1
              I would say - swampy Florida, with regular tropical hurricanes and strong breezes,

              Do not deviate from the topic where it is easier to build - in a warm, albeit slightly swampy area or in the taiga with frosts at -30?
              than the weather conditions in the middle lane.

              Is it East somewhere in the middle lane? Are you serious?
              https://amurpogoda.ru/kosmodrom-vostochnyj
              The main problem of Vostochny is the cost of launches and archaic prelaunch complexes.
              SpaceX's launch infrastructure is not even several times - much cheaper ^

              Archaic? That is, convenient service farms, a closed moving hangar (which, by the way, was made by analogy with the hangar of the Kuru cosmodrome), the supply of all communications in a reliable
              the basis is archaism. This is how I can call SpaceX launching tables assembled from ... improvised materials lying nearby.
              1. Dmitry V.
                Dmitry V. 10 December 2020 12: 37
                +1
                Quote: Wedmak
                That is, convenient service farms, a closed moving hangar (which, by the way, was made by analogy with the hangar of the Kuru cosmodrome), the supply of all communications in a reliable


                Launchers were engaged in a parallel course - my specialization is Letapa.

                PU is a supplement to the price of the complex and launch, the cheaper it is, the cheaper the launch cost.
                Do not forget - one emergency start, and the PU turns into burnt scrap metal.
                The less trash on the launch pad, the better, but the developers have designed the way it is more convenient for them, and not as cheaper - a characteristic feature of large projects that few people understand about them - especially bosses and you can shove what may be useful, otherwise "they will ask, but we have."
                1. Wedmak
                  Wedmak 10 December 2020 12: 40
                  +1
                  So they build such complexes for decades, and not for several years, while "this here is the model" flies.
              2. Dmitry V.
                Dmitry V. 10 December 2020 13: 48
                +2
                Quote: Wedmak
                Do not deviate from the topic where it is easier to build - in a warm, albeit slightly swampy area or in the taiga with frosts at -30?

                What do you think of a penny, where billions are buried?
                I served in this region and experienced the "delights of climate" and there -30 -40 for a year round - imagine - half a year temperatures are above zero.
                I can count such trifles a little: at -30, the liquefaction and storage of cryogenic fuel is more efficient, the decommissioning of the land is several times cheaper, perimeter security is cheaper, etc. - this does not in any way compensate for the gigantic expenditures on infrastructure, monstrous launching complexes of various sizes. You need your own cosmodrome, but not at the same unreasonable price!
      2. donavi49
        donavi49 10 December 2020 11: 28
        +5
        Well, once Musk had 0 launches, and the US Department of Defense launched military satellites on the Soyuz and Protons. Then Roskosmos dominated the world market as Musk does now. And shoveling money. AND? Did this money help the industry?
      3. Dmitry V.
        Dmitry V. 10 December 2020 11: 30
        +1
        Quote: Wedmak
        But again, funding. It is not enough. Give Roskosmos money, as much as they give Musk, everything will be fine.


        Really? Few? To finance the Roskosmos skyscraper?
        Maybe we need to kick out incompetent Roscosmos officials with gold salaries that do not depend on the result of their work?
        Dmitry Rogozin, the head of Roscosmos, declared 2 million rubles of income per month. And the head of NASA, Jim Bridenstein, receives 979000 rubles a month.

        Roscosmos employs over 170 thousand people. NASA officially employs 17 employees.

        SpaceX for May 2020 8000 employees (received total funding from NASA of approximately $ 396 million in 2006 for the development and demonstration of the Falcon 9 launch vehicle and the Dragon spacecraft, $ 75 million in 2011 and $ 440 million in 2012 )
        And the result is clear:
        1. Wedmak
          Wedmak 10 December 2020 11: 35
          +1
          Really? Few?

          I would say very little. Many R&D projects are simply postponed because there is no money.
          Maybe it is necessary to drive out incompetent officials of Roscosmos with gold salaries

          Rather, it is necessary. Theft has taken root seriously, I think it would be necessary to introduce a complete confiscation of the property of such thieves.
          And the result is clear:

          Do not forget to also mention the sanctions that the United States has imposed on everything that can compete with them and made an exception for what they cannot live without. This greatly undermined our capabilities.
          1. Dmitry V.
            Dmitry V. 10 December 2020 12: 44
            +4
            Quote: Wedmak
            This greatly undermined our capabilities.


            Since I still communicate in my former specialty and know the methods of leadership in the rocket industry and the competence of people who make responsible decisions - in the opinion of my colleagues (and among us there are more enthusiasts, no matter where - they were not chasing a ruble going into rocketry), this is the reason is not in funding, but in the leadership - there are too many officials who are not responsible for their incompetent decisions and know that they are not in danger for mistakes. Therefore, "the mountain gave birth to a mouse."
  • APASUS
    APASUS 10 December 2020 10: 47
    -2
    In order to get certified, in my opinion, there should be 8 successful launches, Musk has only blah blah blah, not friends with Rogozin?
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 10 December 2020 11: 01
      +7
      Musk has 23 successful launches of 9s, including humans in 2020. Only China has more.

      This is a preprototype. It's like blaming RK if some thread of Soyuz-5 prototype explodes after completing most of the test program.

      They still have CH-9 flying, and they are already assembling CH-17. The barrels will fly and bang for a couple of years wink ... Another point is that this is a fundamentally revolutionary technology, according to the basic concept, assembly technology, a closed-type propulsion system with full gasification on methane (this is the only engine of this type in the world, if you do not take prototypes and bench samples).

      Another point is that this is a huge risk. And I would be in Musk's place, would rather lean towards improving the 9ki and the release of which Falcon 11 thread on LNG, with even cheaper many times. And here's another step to the new system. Musk, on the other hand, decided to stop the serious improvements of the 9ki, the release of a classic-type LNG rocket in favor of a revolutionary barrel. Will it work or not? We will see. For competitors are investing in improving the classic type of rockets + LNG. If Musk's barrel does not fly, then 9k will be knocked out of domination in the launch market by the 30s.
      1. Wedmak
        Wedmak 10 December 2020 11: 03
        +5
        It's like blaming RK if some thread explodes on a prototype of a Soyuz-5 product

        Oh, I assure you, if Soyuz-5 bangs like this, there will be a howl about lost polymers from every iron. And here is nicho, here is testing.
        1. donavi49
          donavi49 10 December 2020 11: 36
          +5
          Well, Soyuz-5 is an extremely conservative rocket. Even the French were not afraid to take a step towards the market.

          Kerosene + Oxygen. And now we have assembled a mock-up engine assembly for dynamic tests.
          https://twitter.com/roscosmos/status/1336916454688624644


          However, if it crumbles, degrades or fails the stand, then everything will be fine. This is the norm. Now, if she does not fail, but when there are explosions in the series, this is a problem. Also here - in fact, all these SNs in BocaChica are flying models of different saturation.
          1. Wedmak
            Wedmak 10 December 2020 11: 42
            +1
            in fact, all these SNs in BocaChica are flying dummies of different saturation.

            I agree, in fact, rockets assembled on the knee. The engines are powerful, with them a piece of cement like "standard concrete fence" will fly. But I have strong doubts about the Starship, the safety of its crew, etc. The same doubts are still in the direction of the Dragon.
            1. donavi49
              donavi49 10 December 2020 11: 49
              +8
              Well, F9 has a good reputation so far. In fact, 1 detonation before the start and 1 failure in flight with non-withdrawal of the load for 100+ starts wink ... And 4 years - 0 withdrawal problems.

              About Starship - I will repeat this revolutionary product. It can suck all the money and go to the 40s. What kind of thread a private trader or Northrop can collect on the basis of what he has received his less risky rocket and make the Mask at the finish line. However, it can fly normally, serially (+ 50-100% overrun and + 3-4 years of development from plans) - and this will make other missiles obsolete at once.

              Here's what to beat if Starship starts flying into orbit 2-3 times a month, bringing in more than 3 Hangars A5 at a time, at the cost of a Soyuz2 launch?
              1. Wedmak
                Wedmak 10 December 2020 12: 04
                -1
                Here's what to beat if Starship starts flying into orbit

                A nuclear space tug capable of delivering cargo to another planet and returning back in minimal time?
                1. donavi49
                  donavi49 10 December 2020 13: 46
                  +2
                  And from earth to orbit with what? Or from orbit to earth. Musk has priority here. For example, if you look at the 50th year, you dig up some thread of rare earths and other important elements in an industrial way.

                  The nuclear tug can of course operate on an orbit-asteroid line. But no further. The starship can also bring 50-60 tons to the ground.
                  1. Wedmak
                    Wedmak 10 December 2020 16: 38
                    0
                    The starship can also bring 50-60 tons to the ground.

                    Are you seriously??? He just made his first jump, while completely collapsing upon landing, and you have already gathered on it 50-60 tons of payload from orbit. You are running yeah far ahead of the locomotive. So, you can't even be seen from this locomotive.
                2. SovAr238A
                  SovAr238A 10 December 2020 16: 37
                  +2
                  Quote: Wedmak
                  Here's what to beat if Starship starts flying into orbit

                  A nuclear space tug capable of delivering cargo to another planet and returning back in minimal time?


                  And what is the minimum time for a nuclear tug?
                  1. Wedmak
                    Wedmak 11 December 2020 05: 56
                    0
                    What time is the chemical rocket?
                3. eklmn
                  eklmn 10 December 2020 23: 29
                  0
                  Here's what to beat if Starship starts flying into orbit

                  "Space nuclear tug capable of delivering cargo to another planet"
                  It is impossible to beat a nuclear tug, because the idea is old / dangerous and unprofitable from the very beginning.
                  What is profitable / reliable / cheaper? The energy of synthesis!
                  US Space Force and NASA Want to Privatize Nuclear Spacecraft Manufacturing
                  US Space Force and NASA Looking to Privatize Nuclear Spacecraft Production (yahoo.com)
                  “NASA is now looking at nuclear rockets that can propel spacecraft at close to the speed of light and thermonuclear power plants on the Moon and Mars as these are the next steps towards space exploration and colonization. While nuclear fission has been seen as the basis for next-generation rocket engines, the fuel used for fission is enriched uranium, which is scarce, expensive, unstable and dangerous. On the other hand, fusion uses a pure, cheap isotope of hydrogen from ordinary seawater, and one gallon of that seawater extraction yields about the same amount of energy as 300 gallons of gasoline.
                  Popular Mechanics recently published an article on a fusion spacecraft under development that could reach Saturn in just two years: https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/energy/a34437026/direct-fusion-drive-interstellar-travel -saturn -titanium /.

                  Dr. Hafiz Rahman, President and Chief Scientist of MIFTI-MIFTEC, commented that “There is no longer any doubt that fusion energy has a much higher energy density than nuclear fission energy. The synthesis uses very light, abundant, cheap and safe fuel. while fission uses a very heavy fuel that is scarce, expensive and dangerous. " MIFTI has already achieved "proof of concept" with its successful test regime at the University of Nevada, Reno, Terawatt National Base, where they generated a historic neutron flux of 1010 neutrons per pulse using their revolutionary fusion generator. All that is left now is to complete a relatively small financial round to complete the design and perform the next iteration of your merge generator. Approximately 2 years after funding closes, the first working thermonuclear generator will be produced, which will be used to provide the speed of light with our ships and power the global power grid and other sources. Clearly, for the first time ever, clean and inexpensive fusion energy is becoming evident. ”
                  1. Wedmak
                    Wedmak 11 December 2020 05: 55
                    0
                    What is profitable / reliable / cheaper? The energy of synthesis!

                    Yeah ... The fact that the international team of scientists has been struggling with stable thermonuclear fusion for 3 decades and building reactors with a nine-story building - but don't care, we already have projects for ships on thermonuclear engines. Considering. Give only money!
                    1. eklmn
                      eklmn 11 December 2020 16: 55
                      0
                      "Yeah ... The fact that the international team of scientists has been fighting over stable thermonuclear fusion for 3 decades and building reactors with a nine-story building - but don't care ..."
                      Not knowing English is not a reason for not knowing the topic.
                      An international team of scientists from the Princeton Plasma Physics Laboratory have created the engine and, with funding from the US Space Command and NASA, are ready to test the engine in space in 2 years.
                      And it's not 9-storey, it's small. Google the direct fusion drive picture - you will find it.
                      Moreover, another group of scientists stated that “... if we used direct fusion drive (DFD) correctly, we could send a probe into space in a little less than two years, according to a study by a group of aerospace engineers at the Physics Department of New York College of Technology under the leadership of Professor Roman Kezerashvili and were joined by two people from the Turin Polytechnic University in Italy - Paolo Aime and Marco Gaieri. "
                      1. Wedmak
                        Wedmak 14 December 2020 06: 09
                        0
                        Not knowing English is not a reason for not knowing the topic.

                        I am not a walking encyclopedia. And from your post it is not entirely clear what application of thermonuclear fusion is in question. This time. Second: you can count and experiment as much as you like, the fact will be an engine working in space. Which is still far away.
                      2. eklmn
                        eklmn 14 December 2020 17: 18
                        +1
                        "I'm not a walking encyclopedia."
                        I also ((((
                        But if you're really interested in the revolutionary work of the Princeton Plasma Physics Laboratory, then this is the place for you.
                        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_Fusion_Drive
                        I use google translation to learn a lot of interesting things about engine operation.
                        And I was wrong about the size of the engine. You are right - a full-size block can be about 2 m in diameter and 10 m long.
                        For some reason I thought of the EM drive - a rocket engine powered by electromagnetic waves. He's really small.
                        “The fact will be an engine running in space. Which is still far away. "
                        You are right about a running engine in space. And NASA wants to launch it into space for testing in 2 years, in 2023. So I wish you (and myself) to be healthy, to see what will happen ...
  • voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 10 December 2020 11: 25
    +5
    NASA is not concerned with Mars.
    Musk makes a project with his own money
    (of which he currently has 150 billion).
    Musk will first send the Starship rocket to Mars without a crew. If everything goes smoothly, they will begin to prepare a flight with people.
    ---
    The mask can be called anti-Rogozin.
    The first is a practicing entrepreneur.
    The second is a chatterbox official.
    1. Wedmak
      Wedmak 10 December 2020 11: 31
      +1
      Yes Yes Yes....
      Hawthorne, California-based SpaceX $ 53,2 million

      The contract envisions a large-scale demonstration flight, which will pump 10 metric tons of cryogenic fuel, in particular liquid oxygen, between tanks on the Starship spacecraft. SpaceX will partner with the Glenn Research Center and the Marshall Space Center.

      The money was allocated by NASA.

      And in total:
      "NASA has donated over $ 250 million to Lockheed, ULA and SpaceX to develop ways to store and transport cryogenic fuel in space."
      No, NASA is not dealing with Mars ....
      1. donavi49
        donavi49 10 December 2020 11: 41
        +7
        Well, you wrote where the money was allocated laughing ... Where is Mars? There is a topic of refueling in orbit. And this is extremely necessary and useful.

        And not only Musk, but also his main competitors, and ULA received almost 100 million if anything wink .
        1. Wedmak
          Wedmak 10 December 2020 11: 51
          0
          This is a direct connection with flights to Mars, you are pretending to be something ... It is clear that what Musk says about the flight of people to Mars in the next N years is nonsense, but money is allocated for these technologies.
          1. donavi49
            donavi49 10 December 2020 11: 53
            +5
            50 million in this business is nothing.

            YULA and Lockheed will also fly with Mask to Mars or what? On what? On the Delta for 420 million dollars - so there is Hydrogen-Oxygen. Or Vulcan? So it is not yet. Or will they help a competitor ???

            NASA ordered a fuel pumping system in orbit, or rather a working demonstrator, and paid money for this to everyone who agreed to participate.
            1. Wedmak
              Wedmak 10 December 2020 11: 55
              -3
              We agreed and received the money. It is a fact. So don't lie about Musk doing everything with his own money.
              1. donavi49
                donavi49 10 December 2020 11: 57
                +6
                NASA ordered a demonstrator. And there are other corporations that do not have a Starship, if anything. This demonstrator will be made (they will master these 50, and who will even almost 100 million dollars), and then they will receive more money on another topic or not.

                How does this relate to Starship?
                1. Wedmak
                  Wedmak 10 December 2020 12: 28
                  0
                  Moreover, the same SpaceX saws it? The dude, with his own money, is developing a rocket with a powerful engine and promises to fly to Mars next year .. but no, it can't be - a charlatan probably.
                  Well, I don’t believe ... he doesn’t take such money out of thin air. There are no cheap missiles - somewhere they are either hiding something, or they do not finish talking, or they just fool around.
                  In addition, Musk has already been caught on outright lies several times. But he overshadows his next failure with another show and everything goes down on the brakes, is forgotten.
                  1. donavi49
                    donavi49 10 December 2020 13: 42
                    +4
                    NASA has allocated more than $ 250 million. Lockheed, ULA and SpaceX

                    Is that Musk too? Here he damned occupied the leading US corporations.
  • Wedmak
    Wedmak 10 December 2020 10: 54
    -9
    What delights. And for some reason, all Musk fans immediately forgot that these experiments were made by the USSR back in the 50s. WITH THEM technologies. That all this is the stage we have passed. And even the delivery of soil from an asteroid is not a breakthrough, although a great victory. Let me remind you that the USSR was the only one who managed to land on Venus. And get videos, photos and other interesting data from there directly from the surface of the planet.
    You forgot who first landed the lander on the moon.
    Yes, now our funding is not too large, hence such results. So, critics from the Musk sect, you temper the ardor.
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 10 December 2020 11: 34
      +5
      Well, this is not really necessary. If that in the modern world, a dwarf private company with a small rocket holds a launch contract to launch Photon (a support platform from Beck) to Venus with an orbiter and a set of probes dropped into the atmosphere. Flight 23 years old. The goal is to clarify the composition of the atmosphere in different interesting parts of the planet. Finding life based on recent research. Mission life is 1 year.
    2. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 10 December 2020 11: 41
      +2
      "Let me remind you that the USSR was the only one who managed to land on Venus" ///
      ---
      This is truly a huge achievement. But it is in the past.
      Like the six American landings on the moon, it is also ancient history.
      Today, space is Elon Musk. Although the Chinese and billionaire Bezos
      they are catching up with him. If you relax, they will overtake.
      1. Wedmak
        Wedmak 10 December 2020 11: 47
        -4
        Nobody is going to relax. Musk has huge safety questions. Today space is NOT Elon Musk. Today space has reached a level where private companies are able to repeat what was done 50-60 years ago. But then they cannot. Just as state corporations cannot, now the base is only being developed.
        AND BY THE WAY!!! And that no one mentioned the assembly of the prototype NUCLEAR TUG in Russia? Which will be able to deliver ANY spacecraft from the Earth's orbit to any planet and return back. AND?? It's not just 15 km jumps. This is the future that is being laid today. And this is NOT done by Musk!
        1. Evgeny Goncharov (smoogg)
          Evgeny Goncharov (smoogg) 10 December 2020 17: 12
          +1
          > And that no one mentioned the assembly of a prototype NUCLEAR TUG in Russia?

          they cannot come to terms with the primacy of Russia in space, since the construction of the base on the moon in 2015, I notice this behind Russophobes
    3. Vadim237
      Vadim237 10 December 2020 11: 42
      0
      "And for some reason, all Musk's fans at once forgot that these experiments were made by the USSR back in the 50s. WITH THEM technologies. That all this is a stage we have passed through." What experience, what? - Something in the 50s in the USSR there were no returnable first stages of head fairings and reusable ships as well as oxygen-methane liquid-propellant rocket engines, and even more so, the creation of an interplanetary reusable ship was not observed.
      1. Wedmak
        Wedmak 10 December 2020 12: 08
        +1
        Something in the 50s in the USSR was not observed

        As now, there are no landings on Venus or interplanetary ships. You do not compare the level of technology. You are being told that today it is possible for small companies what large companies did with state support 50 years ago.
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 10 December 2020 15: 08
          +1
          Then, in general, the state was engaged in space in the USSR, and in the United States they attracted private offices, and yes, in the 50s, the space industry was just emerging and cost a lot of money and resources.
    4. Whirlwind
      Whirlwind 10 December 2020 15: 39
      -1
      Everything rests on the absence of actual sovereignty, that is, decision-making at the highest state level of the Russian government, and power is money, including for Space ...
    5. Venya Selnikov
      Venya Selnikov 11 December 2020 13: 32
      0
      "The USSR is the only one who managed to land on Venus" - at Pioneer-Venus-2, the samples also reached the surface, and one, emnip, worked for more than an hour and transmitted data.
  • Connor MacLeod
    Connor MacLeod 10 December 2020 11: 45
    +1
    Fall away! good There would be more such "launches"! drinks
  • Knell wardenheart
    Knell wardenheart 10 December 2020 13: 01
    -1
    With all due respect to what Musk is doing, from a piece where the construction of engines falls apart, something burns in flight and one of the engines is cut down - somehow it does not pull "success", taking into account the loss of the prototype. Of course, the Dragons had the same dumb path at times, but still ...
    By the way, the nozzles of the engines in flight pretty swayed and shook, if you watch the video. Of course, perhaps the problem here is that there were not 6 engines, but three ..
    On the other hand, such a colossus continued to fly on two engines, which is undoubtedly a bold plus to their qualities.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 10 December 2020 15: 13
      +4
      "I will lose the prototype" - In addition to this, there are two more of the same at the ready and six more at the stage of completion and construction, but already with changes - so the loss is not great, moreover, everything that was planned for testing was completed. We are waiting for the launch of the Superhevy rocket.
      1. Narak-zempo
        Narak-zempo 10 December 2020 16: 18
        -2
        Quote: Vadim237
        We are waiting for the launch of the Superhavey rocket

        Here we could not cope with 3 engines, but what will happen with 28 in the first stage?
        Musk, it seems, has not read the "success story" of H1 and stubbornly puts his foot on the same rake. Well, we wish they would crack him more painfully on the forehead. Before knockout and removal from the ring.
        And, by the way, this is another nail in the coffin of the falsification with the American "flights" to the Moon. Think for yourself, if with the technologies of the 60s it was possible to create monstrous F1 with such a thrust that only 5 pieces were enough to lift Saturn-5, then why half a century later you have to sculpt a bunch of small engines, and not 5-7-10 ? The answer is simple - F1 did not have the required thrust, and rockets were launched, in which everything above the 2nd stage was a lightweight model.
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 10 December 2020 18: 14
          +2
          Here we could not cope with 3 engines, but what will happen with 28 in the first stage? Falcon Heavy has coped with 27 engines and will cope with the time here, but for now the Raptors and control systems are still damp for them. And any conspiracy nonsense sucked out of your finger about the lunar mission of the 60s and the engines that supposedly did not develop the required power, leave it with you. F1 is outdated physically and morally too large dimensions too high fuel consumption therefore these monsters were abandoned.
          "Rockets were launched in which everything above the 2nd stage was a lightweight model." Tell about the models to those who flew on Skylab and docked with ours in orbit in 1975.
          1. Narak-zempo
            Narak-zempo 10 December 2020 18: 26
            -6
            Quote: Vadim237
            Tell about the models to those who flew on Skylab and docked with ours in orbit in 1975.

            And what does this prove?
            Yes, by 1975, the engines were finished to the point where they could launch the 3rd stage into low orbit and the Apollo to the same place - note, WITHOUT a lunar module and a fuel supply to accelerate to the Moon.
  • Laksamana besar
    Laksamana besar 10 December 2020 14: 51
    +1
    Without falls, there are no ups. Normal situation.
  • Whirlwind
    Whirlwind 10 December 2020 15: 04
    0
    Strongly said - "Exploded, after a successful flight ..."
  • kapitan281271
    kapitan281271 10 December 2020 15: 15
    0
    Just do not rush right now at some FM station I heard that the ship is designed for 100 people, I almost drove into the bump stop, I understand correctly the commentator was mistaken ???????????
    1. OgnennyiKotik
      OgnennyiKotik 10 December 2020 15: 22
      +2
      Quote: kapitan281271
      I understand correctly the commentator was wrong?

      I was not mistaken. This ship is being built for 100 passengers. Consider a Boeing 737-100 or Sukhoi Superjet 100.
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 10 December 2020 18: 23
        0
        In the concept that he now has no more than 100 people he will not be able to carry to other planets - it is only suitable as a space cargo drone no more. If he will carry people, then only in the design and concept of the Shuttle with an airplane landing on prepared ground or concrete sites, but while they will create a manned version it will take at least ten years.
        1. OgnennyiKotik
          OgnennyiKotik 10 December 2020 18: 29
          -1
          Quote: Vadim237
          If he will carry people, then only in the design and concept of the Shuttle with an airplane landing on prepared ground or concrete sites.

          Fake information. There are no restrictions on jet landing, dragons can do this already now, only NASA's conservatism prevents this.
          Quote: Vadim237
          But while they create a manned version, it will take at least ten years.

          3-4 years maximum, the term can only increase licensing.
          1. Vadim237
            Vadim237 10 December 2020 23: 02
            0
            Dragons can do this right now - do not confuse small manned capsule-type that can and are parachuted and the system that stands on them in the form of side engines, the SAS system and huge ships with vertical landing with extreme somersault by dozens of people on board.
            "3-4 years maximum" Yes, damn it two, they will make it in four years, in fact, they did not even have a horse lying around the crew rescue system there are no normal supports and the structure of the ship there are no orientation systems no how a ship with such short supports will land and martian there flat concrete sites, solid soil when landing in a light ship will collapse and the khan's entire crew will refuse during landing, the engine will be the same as we saw today, and yes, no one collects interplanetary ships in the pure field, etc. As a transportation system, the current Starship concept will come off, but not for transporting people.
            1. dgonni
              dgonni 10 December 2020 23: 47
              0
              As it all reminds me of the moaning of the first prototypes of the Mask.
              Let him sing then we'll talk. Let him sit down then and let us talk. Well, etc.
              Even if the starship does not fly to Mars, its ground will remain. A huge hit!
              1. Vadim237
                Vadim237 11 December 2020 22: 55
                0
                It will fly in its current form only as a cargo unmanned system for other planets, but for transporting people, a different concept of the ship is needed in its current form - it is very extreme for which reason I described above.
                1. dgonni
                  dgonni 11 December 2020 23: 10
                  -1
                  Falcon Musk was also very extreme in the project. Nothing flies.
  • Barmal
    Barmal 11 December 2020 09: 06
    0
    Yes, the Martians will be surprised by such a landing, what can we say.
  • Indifferent
    Indifferent 11 December 2020 10: 31
    +1
    Still, the launch is not successful! Exploded again! How much dough they drank again and wrote off! Well done Musk! Knows how to master money! Not like our Rogozin. The one in the organization simply steals money insolently, and then some sit down. And then all the tip-top exploded!
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 11 December 2020 22: 55
      0
      This is called sawing money out of your own pocket.
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  • andrew42
    andrew42 12 December 2020 14: 19
    +2
    But all the same, the Mask should be congratulated, and bite his lip slightly with white envy. Well, capitalism in Russia does not work for progress, what to do. With all the Soviet baggage in the space industry and fundamental research. It works somehow in America, but not here. "No one is guilty" - this is not only a problem for Roscosmos, it is a problem for any average Russian company. Management for the sake of management permeates the entire Russian economy, except for small business, which does not exist. The budget "moose" (which will not be enough for everyone) is sawed only on the way, and here the main thing is the process, for the result you can always get away with "objective" circumstances. Our consciousness requires a different existence - then maybe the pace, and the result will be better.
    1. Trotil42
      Trotil42 13 December 2020 12: 23
      +1
      I strongly agree with you ..BUT I will add that there is no capitalism in Russia at all.. What I see is not capitalism .. I was taught management by real guys from Geneva .. type from the UN .. The goal of the capitalist is to maximize consumer satisfaction .. Then the business is stable and gets development. And we have .. the maximum profit and theft. ...
  • Trotil42
    Trotil42 13 December 2020 12: 12
    0
    Quote: SHVEDsky_stol
    Dragon doesn't fly properly yet. And what they wanted from him initially and what they got in the end are different things. How was it presented at the beginning? 7 seater landing on his feet. What did you get in the end? 4 local and splash-down. But that is.

    Doesn't it really fly? Ha..22 flights .. what then really flies on this planet? Is it Angara? With an investment of more than 100 million of his own money ... Mask will achieve the result ... no matter how badly ... today this is the most successful project in space ...