Military Review

Marine stories. Detective madhouse in the North Sea

A new small such cycle has turned out. The fact is that when you write what about ships (especially), what about airplanes, sometimes you run into such storiesthat make your hair stand on end. Like the case when, in front of the crews of a British convoy, a B-17 and two Focke-Wolfe Condors cosplayed as fighters. And there were many such stories during the two world wars. Some are known, some are not very. In any case, if you select something more interesting, I'm sure it will work out quite fine.

I want to start with the detective. A detective who has not yet been solved. Either because it was difficult, or simply reluctant to dig. But - a very instructive case. It seems that everything is clear, the guilty were appointed, but the sediment remained so light.

There are usually two sides to detective stories. But we have one here, and besides, which is not just lying recklessly, but does it in a very peculiar way. That is, on the one hand, it seems like it is necessary to get rid of it, but on the other hand, not to drop your face into the mud. The second is very difficult to do.

It is about Operation Vikinger, which the Kriegsmarine tried to carry out on February 22-23, 1940. A profound military operation was planned, but it turned out ... Everything turned out from the "Das ist fantastish" area.

In general, the Second World War, many countries started very so-so. The Americans had Pearl Harbor, the British had "Compound Z" drowned just like that (and this, remember, the battleship "Prince of Wales" and the battle cruiser "Ripals"), we have simply incomparable actions of the Baltic fleet in the Tallinn flight and raiding operations of the Black Sea Fleet ...

Were the Germans better?

No! Were not!

Yes, the submariners had successes such as the sinking of the Royal Oak directly in Scapa Flow, while the German submariners drowned the aircraft carrier Korejges, but the surface forces had nothing to boast of. Especially after the "Admiral Graf Spee" took rest at the mouth of the La Plata.

Yes, there was just a deafening victory when the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau sank the auxiliary cruiser Rawalpindi in a “battle”.

But this victory looks more like a redemption, since there was very little honor for the two battleships: the Rawalpindi was a mail steamer with six 152-mm guns, and against such a ship, 18 281-mm guns is the very thing.

But the case that will be discussed - before this show, even how the British divorced Lansdorf and he gave the order to blow up and sink the "Admiral Count Spee" fades. Since everything was simple there, combat plus military cunning. And here - a combination of circumstances and mysticism.

But let's go in order.

1940th year. There is a "strange war" in which the British and the Germans pretend that they are diligently fighting, someone with whiskey, someone with schnapps. But in fact, nobody does anything. All who have served know how dangerous this state of affairs is. When there is no fighting and the personnel are not puzzled by anything.

In such situations, the personnel begins to think that it definitely entails extremely negative consequences. And we have to do something about it. But this is common knowledge.

In general, in the headquarters of the Kriegsmarine they thought something like that. There is no other way to explain the planning of the operation to disperse the British fishermen in the Dogger Bank area. Who came up with the bright idea that fishermen do not fish there, but collect intelligence information, history is silent. But in the depths of the naval headquarters, a plan for Operation Viking was developed ...

The entire operation against the British fishing fleet resulted in an all-European disgrace, since the British did not know until the last moment what threat was hanging over them, and the Germans ... The Germans lost two destroyers.

In general, the ships lost everything. Another question is HOW.

Considering that there were only 22 destroyers in the Kriegsmarine, then losing two, that is, almost a tenth, was somewhat wasteful. But this was not yet the Norwegian operation ... Although, if we consider it as a prelude ...

In general, two ships were killed, more than half a thousand sailors, and the enemy did not even know that such an operation was being prepared against him.

Operation Vikinger itself raises some doubts today. Judge for yourself: six destroyers, and a German destroyer is a ship of a slightly different nature than the British and French. If we take the 1934 Zerstörer, then this ship is closer to the French leaders of the Jaguar class, both in displacement and in armament.

Six such ships going to chase fishermen ... 30 128-mm barrels against fishing seiners and schooners ...

We walked in a well-known area, it was here, from October 17, 1939 to February 10, 1940, that the Germans installed nine minefields with a total of about 1800 mines to impede the movement of British ships.

In general, German destroyers and minelayers laid mines not only in the North Sea. In terms of throwing mines, the Germans were generally excellent specialists, the British flew into German mines throughout the war, not knowing about the setting under their noses.

Well, the North Sea was a breadbasket for fishermen, and therefore war was war, and the entire east coast of Britain went out to sea and caught fish. And the Dogger Bank, which became famous in 1915, was generally the fattest place in terms of fishing. It is not surprising that this area has always had a large number of British ships and boats.

Who in the headquarters of the West Naval Command had the idea that the British fishermen could cover the British submarines, and therefore it is necessary to disperse them - we will never know. But six large ships quietly went out to sea and headed for that area. With the most, as they say, good intentions. Sink and capture a number of trawlers to strain both the British population and the fleet, which, in theory, should have rushed to protect the fishermen.

That is why a prize team was located on each destroyer, whose function was to seize enemy ships and deliver them to their ports.

Out to sea:
Z-1 "Leberecht Maas", corvette commander-captain Basseng
Z-3 "Max Schultz", corvette commander-captain Trumpedach
Z-4 "Richard Beitzen", corvette commander-captain von Davidson
Z-6 "Theodor Riedel", corvette commander-captain Bemig
Z-13 "Erich Koellner", commander of the frigatten-captain Schulze-Hinrichs
Z-16 "Friedrich Eckoldt", commander of the frigatten-captain Schemmel.

In general, in theory, there should have been a cover from the Luftwaffe, but somewhere above it was decided that it would be fat. Such a formidable force for terror of some fishermen is too much. Therefore, aerial reconnaissance was carried out on February 20, and on the 22nd the ships moved on.

On the same day, the Luftwaffe planned hostilities away from the Dogger Bank area, off the east coast to the mouth of the Humber River. In general, no one was supposed to interfere with anyone.

In fact, the history of the relationship between the Kriegsmarine and the Luftwaffe was very difficult. Of course, the Navy really wanted to have its own Aviationso as not to run to Goering and beg every time. But it was difficult for the “first Nazi” to break, and therefore German Ernestovich, having said that “everything that flies is mine,” left the sailors only seaplanes, and even then, not for long. Subsequently, everything generally took the form of a farce, when the commander of the ship could not order the commander of the seaplane on the ship where to fly and why. Well, legally it happened. In fact, of course, he ordered.

Overall, the relationship between the Kriegsmarine and the Luftwaffe was not exactly strained, but rather peculiar. The fleet could only use its seaplanes for laying mines, reconnaissance and patrolling. Everything else the Luftwaffe reserved.

If we add to this the fact that both structures had their own ciphers and cards, and the communication lines were very conditional, then one can only imagine how “easy” it was possible to organize and coordinate the operation. Any.

In general, the Kriegsmarine acted by itself, the Luftwaffe by itself. And nothing could be done about this throughout the war. Such is the mess, actually.

February 22, 1940. At about 12 noon six destroyers set out to sea. Above them hangs an "umbrella" from the Messerschmitts Bf.109 squadron JG.1. Naturally, before that scouts flew out, who were supposed to "fix" the route.

The destroyers left and went according to the approved course. The planes, having seen them off, returned back to the airfields.

It was already dark when around 19.00 the ships of the flotilla began to pass the minefield along the trodden corridor. The ships sailed in convoy, Friedrich Eckoldt, Richard Beitzen, Erich Koellner, Theodor Riedel, Max Schultz and Leberecht Maas. The ships were in order, watchmen and lookouts were in their places, there was a slight fog on the sea and - the most unpleasant thing - a full moon.

At 19.13 the signalmen of the Friedrich Ekoldt noticed a twin-engine aircraft flying at a low altitude (about 60 meters) along the line of ships, as if identifying their belonging. The destroyers sailed at a speed of 26 knots, with an interval of 1,5-2 cables.

The wake was clearly visible in the moonlight, and the commander of the flotilla frigatten-captain Berger ordered the speed to be reduced to 17 knots, hoping to hide the tracks of the ships to a minimum.

At 19.21 the plane, apparently turning around, appeared again. It was decided on the ships that it was like a stranger, they played a combat alert and the crews of "Richard Beitzen" and "Erich Keller" opened fire on the plane from 20-mm machine guns.

The plane turned away and disappeared into the darkness. On the Keller he was identified as British, but on the Maas - as his own. The crew of the plane, dodging the shells, clearly decided that the ships were enemy.

Destroyer Z-1 "Leberecht Maas"

That was the point. In the darkness of a February evening, looking at the flag of belonging from the plane is another task. A lot of black, a lot of red, which in the dark is the same black. And there is a white one, but it still needs to be considered. So when they didn’t see the flag, but saw the flashes of anti-aircraft guns, there were definitely strangers here.

At 19.43 the plane returned with very determined intentions. On the "Leberecht Maas" he was noticed and reported that the plane was coming in from the stern. And then something unexpected happened for the crew of the destroyer - the plane, flying by, dropped two bombs. And got one.

The Maas opened fire (belatedly), so the plane left and the destroyer began to figure out what had happened. The bomb exploded between the pipe and the bridge. The Maas stopped and signaled that it needed help. The Ekold approached the Maas, the others were at some distance. The Ekold began to prepare for towing, but at that moment the shooting began again on the Maas. The plane is back!

And he didn't just come back with the words "I'll arrange it for you here," but dropping four bombs and hit two! One hit the stern, and the second in the same area as the bomb that hit the first, in the chimney area.

It exploded. The bomb went as far as the engine room and turned everything into bloody stuffing there. A column of smoke, steam and fire rose into the air. And when the smoke cleared, only the sinking halves remained of the Maas: the destroyer broke in half and began to sink!

And he sank.

At 19.58, the flagship ordered all ships to lower boats to save people. Keller, Beitzen, and Ekold lowered the boats and began rescuing the Meuse's crew.

In fact, right there (at 20.02) the show was continued by "Theodor Riedel". At first, the destroyer heard a submarine. The acoustician heard, and the crew of the bow gun saw the traces of torpedoes. Plus, an explosion was supposedly heard at some distance.

In general, in the conditions of the nix that began, even the emerging Kraken would be quite in the subject. So "Theodor Riedel" launched an attack on the submarine according to the bearing given by the acoustician. At 20.08, Ridel dropped a series of four depth charges.

Everything would be fine, but the destroyer was moving somewhat slower than it should have been according to the instructions. And the bombs might not have been placed quite correctly. In general, "Riedel" was blown up by its own depth charges. One did not explode, but three were more than enough for the destroyer. The gyrocompass was disabled and the steering was completely out of order.

"Riedel" got up, the commander of the ship ordered to stop the disgrace (that is, bombing), the crew put on life belts and start repairs.

Max Schultz was ordered to search for the submarine.

Destroyer Z-3 "Max Schultz"

In general, a mess began in the square, openly bordering on panic. Submarines, torpedoes, depth charges, a damn plane that kept going into circles in the distance ...

From "Keller" they gave the command to their boats to return to the ship urgently, and then, not making sure that they were all lifted, the destroyer set in motion. As a result, one boat, along with the sailors who were there, was actually crushed by the ship.

The Keller was still circling when the word "Torpedo approaching, submarine cabin on the left 30" was transmitted to the bridge. The commander of the ship, Schultz, decided to go to the ram, ordered to give full speed, but thank God, they figured out that this was not the cabin of the boat, but the bow of the Meuse sticking out of the water.

Torpedoes, of course, existed only in the fantasies of the crew.

At 20.30 the commander of the formation reported on the loss of the Leberecht Maas to the main headquarters. While the headquarters were digesting the information, they were still trying to deal with the submarine on the spot. By the way, how are things with the "Schultz", which was entrusted with the fight against the submarine?

And then it covered everyone again. "Schultz" was nowhere to be found.

While rescuing people from the Maas, while looking for, bombing and trying to ram the submarine, the destroyer Max Schultz simply disappeared.

A roll call was held among the rescued. 60 of the crew of 330 Meuse were on three ships, 24 aboard the Keller, 19 on the Ekoldt and 17 on the Beitzen. Of the 308 people in the Schultz's crew, there was none.

At 21.02 at the headquarters of the Kriegsmarine, a second message was received that the destroyer "Max Schultz" was missing, a submarine was named as the reason for the disappearance. Probable reason.

The headquarters decided that it was time to stop this carnival and gave a reasonable order to curtail the operation and return to the base. For further debriefing.

While the destroyers were going back to the base, operational report No. 172 was laid on the table of the naval command, which also mentioned the participation of aircraft of the 10th Air Corps in hostilities. And in the report it was said that at about 20.00 an armed steamer with a displacement of 3 to 4 thousand tons was attacked, which sank abeam the Terschelling lighthouse. The steamer resisted, firing from a cannon and several machine guns.

Well, good fellows, Goering's guys. It's okay that the gun was 128 mm, and the "machine guns" were 20 mm, the main thing is the result.

Until that moment, the naval command "West" believed that anything but its own aviation was to blame for the death of the "Maas". Alas, after comparing the reports of the pilots and the commander of the destroyer formation, it became clear that the Leberecht Maas had become a victim of the Heinkel No.111 from the 10th Air Corps.

However, there is a slight oddity. In the report of the command of the 10th air corps, it is said about an attack on ONE target. Who then sent Schultz to the bottom?

The most interesting thing is that the British rushed to excuse themselves. That is how they were, strange, but honest. And it turned out generally crazy: their aviation did not fly in that area, submarines did not even pass nearby. Of course, it would be fun to say that yes, we sunk two destroyers, but the British did not sin like that.

And even more, British pilots did not sin of hitting German ships at night. And so that twice is generally from the realm of fantasy.

And rumors that a mess was going on in the Kriegsmarine reached Hitler, who demanded to figure out how it was, to lose two destroyers in one night without a fight.

And on board the Admiral Hipper, apparently for the sake of solidity, a troop of investigators and interrogators were deployed. These investigators interrogated all the crews of the destroyers (except for the "Schultz", of course) and aircraft, after which they established: the sinking of the Leberecht Maas was the case of the bombs of the Heinkel No.111 crew under the command of Feldwebel Jager from the 4th squadron of the KG 26 squadron Yager admitted that, yes, he made two calls with bombs on the ships unidentified by the crew, which opened fire on the plane.

Marine stories. Detective madhouse in the North Sea

And here the questions of a detective nature begin, because the sinking of "Max Schultz" was also hung on Jager.

First, let's list all the reasons that could have drowned Max Schultz quietly and naturally.

1. Airplane attack. It doesn't matter what was there, the bomb hit the cellar, the depth charges on the deck.
2. Submarine and its torpedoes.
3. Depth charges. Their.
4. Mines.

1. Airplane. Very, you know, attracted. The fact that the brave but touchy sergeant major Hunter (Jager is a hunter in German) was hung with all the dogs is understandable. They knew how at all times and in all armies of the world.

But here's the problem: the version does not fit. Jager made TWO runs, both along the Meuse. The destroyer seemed to be against it, the crews fired. The fact that having sunk the Maas, Jager flew off with the company to the Schultz and just as swiftly sunk it - well, nonsense. For some reason, there is not a word in the reports that they were firing at the plane from the Schultz. And again, well, at least one person, but could have survived ...

Jager had time. If he spent 15 minutes on the "Maas" in two stages, and the report on losses went at 20.30, then there was a carriage time. Another question is why no one saw anything, and in the initial report it was said about one goal?

Apparently, gentlemen, the investigators transparently hinted that nothing will happen to Jager for this orgy, so there will be more destroyer, less destroyer ... The Fuhrer himself is waiting for the results, why lock up, right?

But it is doubtful. And in terms of ammunition, too, the He 111 took a lot of bombs, but still the stock is not infinite.

2. Submarine. Thanks to the British, now we know that there were no submarines, like aircraft, in the Sabbath area. So all the torpedoes existed only in the panicked heads of German sailors. Which does not do them honor at all.

3. Your depth charges. On the one hand, how would you have to throw it under yourself in order to drown the ship? If a bomb from the same "Heinkel" hit the stern, where the ready-made depths lay, then yes, it would bang so that everyone jumped. And certainly such a show could not fail to be noticed from other ships.

But the last point is quite probable.

4. Mine. Such a normal sea creature with a hundred kilograms of TNT, capable of breaking a ship of such a class as a destroyer. Even as worn out as a German destroyer. And here it is quite a normal option, history knows many cases when ships were blown up by mines so that almost no one was saved.

Where are the mines in the swept fairway? Yes, from anywhere. They could have dropped British planes (which they were doing throughout the war), they could have delivered British destroyers. They could have wiped it badly, by the way, and left a couple. By the way, there is information that it was in this area that two British destroyers were doing something. It may have been mines. Perhaps they were doing something else. There is no exact data.

All in all, the operation was amazing. Two ships went to the bottom, one went for repairs due to the fact that he had done himself.

Not a single shot from the British. Not a single torpedo. The Germans themselves coped very well, because the main problem is the lack of interaction between the Kriegsmarine and the Luftwaffe. Precisely because there was a complete mess in coordination, the German aircraft was fired upon by German ships, mistaken for the enemy and drowned one of them.

The panic that began further helped. While dodging "torpedoes", while bombing and ramming the "submarine", we somehow lost another ship. German, British - not so important, it is important that "Max Schultz" was not where it was needed.

Personally, it seems to me that the destroyer really fell out of the corridor, carried away by the search for a "submarine" and ran into one or even two mines. No one was saved because they simply did not see. Night, February ... Baltic. Everything was done by ice water.

And they didn’t see it because they didn’t know where to look. The Maas went in formation with the rest of the ships, they saw it, received signals from it, saw how the destroyer fired at the plane, and so on. And no one really watched the "Schultz" stepping aside, so the destroyer calmly went alone to look for the submarine, alone it was blown up, it is not clear where, and sank there.

Although, you know, on February night there can be other layouts, right?
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  1. ycuce234-san
    ycuce234-san 12 December 2020 04: 46
    There are archives of the weather of the past decades available on the internet and the estimated climates and climate maps for them. Judging by them, in England from 18 to 23 February it is usually, on average, about zero and precipitation is about 2,5 mm. Since the case was over a sea that accumulates heat, we will add +1 degree. This is reminiscent of the already supercooled night fog over the North Sea. There is a North Sea pilot dated August 7, 1973, which predictably states that fog is likely there from December to March. The weather gave them all the help it could to defeat.
  2. Catfish
    Catfish 12 December 2020 05: 33
    Although, you know, on February night there can be other layouts, right?

    Aliens, damn it, this is their machinations! laughing You read, and think, where is the vaunted German pedantry and sober calculation? A mess - he is a mess.

    Thanks to the author for the funny story. hi
    1. The leader of the Redskins
      The leader of the Redskins 12 December 2020 07: 44
      Yes, not bad for a Saturday morning. Happy weekend, by the way!))) hi
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 12 December 2020 09: 56
        Hi Buddy, have a nice weekend too. smile
    2. bubalik
      bubalik 12 December 2020 10: 14
      ... questions up to fig.
      At night in the fog
      it got dark when around 19.00 the ships of the flotilla began to pass the minefield along the trodden corridor. The ships sailed in convoy, Friedrich Eckoldt, Richard Beitzen, Erich Koellner, Theodor Riedel, Max Schultz and Leberecht Maas. The ships were in order, watchmen and lookouts were in their places, there was a slight fog on the sea and - the most unpleasant thing - a full moon.
      the plane calmly bombed, and most importantly for sure.
      why only
      A combat alert was raised and the crews of "Richard Beitzen" and "Erich Keller" opened fire on the plane from 20-mm machine guns.
      on two destroyers sounded the alarm and opened fire and never hit belay
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 12 December 2020 11: 08
        Hello, Sergey hi ... The fact that they did not get on the plane is okay, I am surprised how and where did the whole destroyer disappear? After all, if you exclude aliens, then there is only one option - mines. From one mine it will not go to the bottom, from two and even more so with the detonation of its own ammunition - easily. Could the explosion cut the connection? Probably could, but in such a case there is an emergency transmitter, or the Germans did not? But most importantly, in order to turn such a destroyer into molecules, the explosion must be very powerful, and that, on the other ships, it was not heard? And the blast wave from that amount of TNT was also not felt? All this is somehow too muddy.
        1. bubalik
          bubalik 12 December 2020 12: 09
          ,,, and the plane hit the fog at night. Doesn't that surprise you?
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 12 December 2020 12: 15
            And this may indicate the excellent training of the Luftwaffe pilots, in contrast to the sailors of the Kriegsmarine surface ships. Another thing surprises me - the fact that he literally hung over the ships and launched attacks whenever he liked, it seems that he would melt them all if he had more bombs.
            And what confuses you here?
            1. bubalik
              bubalik 12 December 2020 12: 41
              ,,, suppose good.
              Alarm and fire why only two destroyers opened which were in the middle of the column
              The ships sailed in convoy, Friedrich Eckoldt, Richard Beitzen, Erich Koellner, Theodor Riedel, Max Schultz and Leberecht Maas.
              Richard Beitzen "," Erich Koellner ",
              And the rest?
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 12 December 2020 12: 47
                And this is the question. The devil only knows, maybe they just did not see the plane, or maybe the flotilla commander thought that there was enough fire from two destroyers for one plane, or maybe ... but the devil only knows what else could have happened.
                Apparently, this whole raid was accompanied by some kind of fatal confusion.
          2. ycuce234-san
            ycuce234-san 12 December 2020 19: 09
            The pilot most likely saw long and strongly elongated lunar shadows of ships in a light fog at moonrise, but without details, and the ships themselves were poorly visible, since they were masked from the aircraft and ships by frost from the fog. Therefore, it was possible to bomb them, but it was difficult to identify them. Astronomically, at 22.02.40, at (19-20) - 00 o'clock there was a full moon, almost to the east, above the horizon line (Az / Alt 77 ° / + 02 °) - you can quickly roughly adjust Stellarium online to the English coast and time with date and see. Therefore, the plane in the sky was also illuminated from below by the Moon, but the fog already prevented the sailors from recognizing it. Yes, and he also interfered with the observation of the ships, drowned out the noise of explosions and collisions, people in the sea were not found because of him - they did not see and did not hear a cry.
        2. Macsen_wledig
          Macsen_wledig 13 December 2020 16: 02
          Quote: Sea Cat
          But most importantly, in order to turn such a destroyer into molecules, the explosion must be very powerful, and that the other ships did not hear it? And the blast wave from that amount of TNT was not felt either? All this is somehow too muddy.

          Read what the witnesses write about the explosion of "Hood", and there everything exploded more than during the explosion of a mine + cellar, torpedo, etc.
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 13 December 2020 23: 31
            I read about the explosion of "Hood" and more than one author. The explosion of the cellars (?) Of the battle cruiser in this case is not an example in relation to the destroyer.
            1. Macsen_wledig
              Macsen_wledig 14 December 2020 19: 02
              Quote: Sea Cat
              The explosion of the cellars (?) Of the battle cruiser in this case is not an example in relation to the destroyer.

              I and its accompanying sound effects.
              Not even the three Hood survivors heard the explosion.
  3. parusnik
    parusnik 12 December 2020 07: 52
    "He took a saber, took a gun and stabbed himself to death. A funny conversation" (c)
  4. andrewkor
    andrewkor 12 December 2020 07: 53
    That's interesting. The author writes about the useless interaction of sailors and flyers of Germany, and it was. On the other hand, the generals of the Wehrmacht enthusiastically write in their memoirs about the invaluable assistance of the Luftwaffe, about the role of air controllers in the forward units of tank wedges, instantly solving problems with the suppression of any resistance.
    Borov didn't like sailors?
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 12 December 2020 21: 24
      Yes. Goering did not like sailors. They had with the command of the fleet
      even ideological differences.
      In the Luftwaffe it was customary to be Nazis, members of the national
      socialist party. And the command of the fleet was
      Hitler's ideas are cool. Anyone was taken to the fleet, if only there was
      professionally fit. They even took those who were being hunted by the Gestapo.
      The sailors were by no means noble knights: they drowned and shot
      civilian courts have committed many war crimes.
      But "their" crimes, not es-es-ovs.
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 14 December 2020 12: 06
        Quote: voyaka uh
        In the Luftwaffe it was customary to be Nazis, members of the national
        socialist party.

        On the other hand,
        In my headquarters, I myself decide who is Jewish and who is not!
        © G. Goering.
        Quote: voyaka uh
        Yes. Goering did not like sailors.

        Duc ... the sailors did not know the aviation, did not understand, but tried to command. The backlashes were somehow given by the sailors to the operational subordination of the reconnaissance squadron - but they were forced to take them back, since the naval commanders set tasks for the aviators, regardless of the weather, enemy forces and the real radius of the machines.
  5. Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 12 December 2020 08: 51
    two "Focke-Wulf" "Condor" cosplayed as fighters.
    belay What was it? recourse
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 12 December 2020 09: 58
      Question to the author, I join. what
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 12 December 2020 11: 42
        Here is an interesting selection on this topic.
        1. Undecim
          Undecim 12 December 2020 13: 11
          И вот тут.,miles%20west%20of%20Lisbon%2C%20Portugal.
  6. sevtrash
    sevtrash 12 December 2020 12: 39
    "Friendly" fire, defeat was always and everywhere. Pokryshkin, for example, shot down the Soviet Su-2 as one of the first victories. On youtube, you can see a lot of errors, funny and not so much. So everything happens. With the second destroyer, I would put it on depth charges, apparently there was something wrong with their installation or technology of use. Although a stubborn bomber would not be discounted.
    1. Saxahorse
      Saxahorse 12 December 2020 20: 36
      Quote: sevtrash
      With a second destroyer, I would put on depth charges,

      I agree! Judging by the troubles of Theodor Rigel, the throwing of depth charges concealed some kind of ambush. The Germans regularly had similar problems. Magnetic detonators alone of torpedoes famously threw their owners ...
  7. vladcub
    vladcub 12 December 2020 12: 52
    "the history of the relationship between the Kriegsmarine and the Luftwaffe was not only stretched, but peculiar" you can not read further
  8. Undecim
    Undecim 12 December 2020 12: 59
    But this victory looks more like a redemption, since there was very little honor for the two battleships: the Rawalpindi was a mail steamer with six 152-mm guns, and against such a ship, 18 281-mm guns is the very thing.
    283 mm. In total, Gneisenau used 53 283-mm shells and 125 150-mm shells, and Scharnhorst fired 89 283-mm and 109 150-mm shells,
  9. Normal ok
    Normal ok 12 December 2020 14: 29
    "And the Dogger Bank, which became famous in 1915, was generally the fattest place in terms of fishing."
    In fact, Dogger Bank became "famous" back in 1904. When Rozhestvensky "glorified" the Russian fleet there. An enchanted place? ((
  10. Pavel57
    Pavel57 12 December 2020 18: 54
    And what about Jager? Sent to the Eastern Front?
    1. Alf
      Alf 12 December 2020 21: 39
      Quote: Pavel57
      And what about Jager? Sent to the Eastern Front?

      Yeah, in February 40 ... If only vodka and schnapps are mixed with Russian comrades ...
    2. WapentakeLokki
      WapentakeLokki 12 December 2020 21: 48
      ..hag in 1940 and straight to Moscow !!!
  11. ycuce234-san
    ycuce234-san 12 December 2020 20: 02
    Perhaps the simultaneous combination of submarine noises and the use of torpedoes and mines was due to a collision with a lone underwater mine layer, upon returning to England, no longer protecting the convoy that was absent from it, on which they could not but understand that surface destroyers without minesweepers would only move along a previously swept corridor ... HMS Seal (N37) continued escorting, patrolling and laying minefields in the waters of Norway and France until May 1940, until it was captured by Germany. Z-3 "Max Schultz" could have suffered from mines, officially killed by a sea mine - and the planes did not have depth charges and the nature of the damage from ordinary ones would not allow accepting the mine version.
    1. Snail N9
      Snail N9 17 February 2021 19: 20
      The author is mocking about the disappearance of the German destroyer, which could have been caused by "their own" mines ... Yes, a ridiculous vaudeville on the theme of "the death of adversaries in the sea" (well, it's not a pity, the enemies burn ...) ... A. Shirokorada has a book: "Admiral Oktyabrsky against Mussolini", so it is written there (and, as the author writes, not everything, because everything is very secret, so far) that our minefields have done to our own fleet as a military, and transport ... So, there is no time for fun, there the hair stands on end ...
      1. ycuce234-san
        ycuce234-san 17 February 2021 23: 39
        To be honest, I don’t know if HMS Seal (N37) was examined and raised. But often documents in sea water are preserved very well - sometimes even papers of the era of great geographical discoveries are taken out. Recently they got out a book like this, but younger. And HMS Seal (N37) sank not in the tropics, but in cold waters - sometimes they find wooden boats of the Vikings, not that documents - when they get it, then it will be possible to see what actually happened with the minesag and clarify the versions.
  12. Petrol cutter
    Petrol cutter 12 December 2020 20: 33
    Sorry for the incompetence ... Cosplay ... What does that mean? ...
    1. bk0010
      bk0010 13 December 2020 14: 50
      Quote: Benzorez
      Cosplay ... What does that mean?
      They portrayed. Girls dress and paint like heroines of computer games - cosplay "name_heroine".
      1. Petrol cutter
        Petrol cutter 13 December 2020 20: 00
        Thank you. Otherwise, people insert a lot of foreign words, but I don't understand anything about them ...
        More precisely, I do not have time to understand them ... request
    2. Rzzz
      Rzzz 13 December 2020 19: 55
      Cosplay - Costume Play. Play with dressing up under any image.
      1. Petrol cutter
        Petrol cutter 13 December 2020 20: 25
        Thank you. It would be better if they mastered the semiautomatic welding machine for God.
        They wouldn't have a price ...
        Also a very interesting car!
  13. Saxahorse
    Saxahorse 12 December 2020 20: 47
    Simply gorgeous! Thanks to Roman, I made you happy on Saturday! good

    Although there are jambs in the design, too, in two photos in a stormy sea, for example, of course, it is not "Zerstörer 1934" at all, but some "Greif-type" destroyers of the 1925-27 model. They are two times smaller, the destroyers of 1934 can be easily distinguished by the two-tier cannons in the nose, in this regard they are similar to our projects 7 and 7u

    Feltwebel Jager is a beast! wassat Not everyone will be able to give out such a number of hits, and even at night!

    Well, the "Schultz" that disappeared without a trace most likely became a victim of its own depth charges.

    On the whole, the article reminded me of an episode from the Patient's book "The Tragedy of Errors", where a division of German destroyers during WWI tore through Russian minefields right through. Someone from the Germans (apparently from an excess of schnapps) suddenly turned up that the Russians put their fields against the German battleships! Which is true :) And this kind of means that the destroyers over these fields will calmly pass, the draft is less .. But here they did not guess. The Russians, just in case, put mines three meters deep. The result of this competition for the Darwin Prize is impressive, two of the eight German destroyers returned to the base! wassat
  14. Petrol cutter
    Petrol cutter 12 December 2020 20: 54
    Novel! Thank you so much.
    You just fiercely cheered me up on this chilly December evening.
  15. Smirnoff
    Smirnoff 12 December 2020 21: 34
    Thanks to the author for the article. You are good at nautical topics drinks
  16. Petrograd
    Petrograd 14 December 2020 18: 16
    Yes, coupled with Eldridge, swung into the future bully
  17. vitvit123
    vitvit123 13 January 2021 16: 24
    Well written. Interesting events ... Thank you!