Military Review

“I got to Washington from Arizona in ten days. Fiction!"

201

The last crutch (1881). Painting by Thomas Hill (1829-1908). California State Railroad Museum.


“It's also surprising how quickly the US recovered.
after the civil war - just instantly
by historical measurements! "

Tlahuicol


Paradoxes of history. Some time ago I watched the 1964 American film "Sound of a Distant Trumpet" - a pretty well-shot western in the style of "army", where horsemen gallop across the prairie in real time, the US Army cavalry all polls firing at the Indians from the 1875 Winchesters, but dusty after the race pretty well, and where even Alexander Bell's first telephone was shown. There this phrase sounded (and is remembered!), Which became the title of the article.

A question from readers to historians


And just then there was no invention. For the beginning of the 80s of the XIX century, this was an excellent result for traveling ... by rail! This is the "first".

The "second" happened a little later and became the epigraph to this article. It's just that sometimes, and quite often, VO readers ask questions so interesting that they become topics for new articles. This is the question - what is the reason for such a rapid recovery of the US economy after the war? - is also very interesting from all points of view, and besides, it also touches on such an important thing as the process of historical knowledge. And if so, why not answer it?

Although one should not think that this interested only one of the VO readers. It turned out that there, overseas, there were also historians who were also interested in this very question. And they began work on collecting and processing information that would give a concrete answer to it.

“I got to Washington from Arizona in ten days. Fiction!"
End of the American Civil War: General Lee's surrender at Appomattox. Depicted from left to right: John Gibbon, George Custer, Cyrus Comstock, Orville Babcock, Charles Marshall, Walter Taylor, Robert Lee, Philip Sheridan, Ulysses Grant, John Rawlins, Charles Griffin, Chamberlain? George Mead, Eli Parker, James Forsyth, Wesley Marritt, Theodore Bowers, and Edward Orden. Library of Congress

And the first, perhaps, among them is R.V. Vogel, who received the Nobel Prize in 1993 for his cycle of studies in cliometry. This is a science, the foundation of which is based on the generally quite banal idea that the past leaves us much more information than historians who use only traditional methods of historical research in their work are accustomed to believe.

For a long time, such huge layers of oral as well as written sources, such as tax and customs declarations, registration records in church books of parishes and monasteries, denunciations of sexists, documents of draft commissions, etc., were not taken into account, since all this accounted for process manually.

Note. Cliometrics is the systematic application of mathematical methods in historical research.


Expats arrive in the United States. XNUMXth century engraving Library of Congress

The use of cliometry methods in Russia has also brought many interesting discoveries. For example, we began to analyze data on the average height and weight of conscripts, taken from the summary documents of the draft commissions. Until then, it was believed that Russia before the revolution was starving and almost dying out, but the development of capitalism only enriched the top.

So, the data on the biological indicators of conscripts in the Russian army clearly proved that from year to year the growth, weight and muscle mass of conscripts increased! (Why? From hunger or from the wind?) No, only because people ate better and better every year. The years of crop failures were also quite clearly correlated in these documents with the decrease in the weight of conscripts. That is, the famine in Russia under the tsar does not deny these data. But the fact that the common people (who were the main supplier of soldiers) lived better and better year after year is an indisputable historical fact.

Another thing is that the rise in the standard of living was perceived (as it is today) as a given and lagged behind the people's aspirations. And, by the way, it was precisely this lag that gave a real chance to take power into their own hands for those who promised to speed up this process. That's all there is to it.


American steam locomotive of the transcontinental railroad. This is how we know him from the movie "Back to the Future" and from many westerns.

American land races


Well, the Americans started by studying their railways. Studies such as The Quantitative Approach to Railways in American Economic Growth: A Report on Several Preliminary Findings and Railroads and American Economic Growth: Essays on an Econometric History highlight the very specific role of railroad construction after the end of the Civil War.


Poster by Crane Walter (1845–1915), dedicated to the emigration to the United States from Europe. Library of Congress

The fact is that many poor people from Europe came to fight in the States. They were attracted by the rather high wages and the opportunity to get homestead.

The Homestead Act was passed on May 20, 1862. And, according to this document, every US citizen who has reached the age of 21, who did not fight on the side of the South against the North, had the right to a plot of land of no more than 160 acres (which was equal to 65 hectares).

It was enough to pay a fee of $ 10, and the land was yours. The law came into force on January 1, 1863. And, of course, he attracted a huge number of European emigrants to the side of the Union.


Monument in Oklahoma City, erected in memory of the Race for the Ground.

According to the same law, if you started cultivating the land and erected some kind of structure on it, then it became yours completely free of charge after 5 years.

But you could have acquired the land before the expiration of this period, paying $ 1,25 per acre.

On the basis of the Homestead Act, about 2 million Homesteads were distributed in the United States, with a total area of ​​approximately 285 million acres (or 115 million hectares), that is, 12% of the entire country.


Poster for the political union of American farmers Grange, 1873 Library of Congress.

Such an impressive economic event largely eliminated the surplus of human resources that formed in the country after the end of the Civil War and the demobilization of the army. Well, the very process of how people got land in Races for Land (which were arranged in cases where the demand for land in certain states exceeded supply) is very well shown in the movie Far Country with Tom Cruise and Nicole Starring Kidman.


That's how they rode! Tom Cruise. A still from the film "Distant Country". Kinopoisk.ru


... And Nicole Kidman.

However, this unprecedented action (very useful for the country in the future) could not cope with the surplus of labor. And it's not about the blacks, which some commentators have written about as cheap labor. No.

Most of the negroes stayed in the South, familiar to them. Nobody needed them in the North - after all, they could not do anything. They could not compete with whites in factories and factories. Well, perhaps they were taken with pleasure as loaders and in negro orchestras. The women went to serve. But on the whole, this was not the contingent that could seriously influence something in the North.

But the demobilized soldiers could ... Moreover, not all of them dreamed of land and wanted to cultivate it. What was to be done with these? And also it was impossible to forget about the interests of the industrialists who produced weapon... And suddenly - bam, this weapon was no longer needed.


Such railway stations appeared all over the country and connected it into one whole. A still from the movie "Back to the Future-3".

The iron recipe for instant recovery


A way out was found in the construction of railways and, above all, a transcontinental highway across the country. During its construction, workers were paid huge money for that time - $ 2 a day. That is, as much as a cowboy cook. But in the highlands, they refused to work.

And then, for the first time in the United States, Chinese were brought in in large quantities, who agreed to work for just $ 1 a day.

Moreover, today it has been found out that in fact this construction of a transcontinental highway across America was lobbied precisely by the large arms and steel enterprises of the United States, which did not want to lose both their profits and production capacity.

The social aspect, of course, also took place. After all, the workers of the military factories were threatened with dismissal of the transition to a peaceful track. Since the army, in fact, was disbanded. And so, in order to avoid a social explosion, these people were deemed necessary "to do something useful".


The legendary "Golden Crutch" is the last railroad crutch that Leland Stanford, the head of the railroad company, hammered on May 10, 1869, during a ceremony to connect the two Central Pacific Railroad and Union Pacific Railroad lines in Promontari, Utah. Which led to the creation of the First US Transcontinental Railroad. Located at Stanford University's Iris & B. Gerald Cantor Center for Visual Arts.

By the way, why did the first American railways go not along the shortest routes, but like hares zigzagging along the prairie?

The reason is simple: the agents of the railway companies, who immediately appeared like mushrooms after the rain, demanded money from the mayors of cities or a deed of purchase for the land. Whoever gave them money - they led the way there. And to those who did not give - they explained that "there will be no road, there will be no prosperity." The road bypassed these cities, and very soon they simply died.

In fact, it was an artificially organized scam of a gigantic scale. And at first, even without any special economic benefits. Since people did not immediately use the railways.

But then, when they finally began to be used, then a secondary boom in the construction of railways began.

This is how the United States (and first of all, of course, the North) overcame the dire consequences of the Civil War for its economy.
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  1. Catfish
    Catfish 12 December 2020 04: 43
    +19
    Good morning friends and a great weekend everyone! hi

    Vyacheslav, thank you for a completely unexpected and interesting topic, I have never read anything about the Homestead Act and I have not heard of Race for the Ground. However, the powers that be in America have famously dealt with the problem of "extra people" in the postwar years. I wonder how it was with the Indians, were allotments given to the whites in their lands? How did this happen? The same question applies to the transcontinental railroad. No, I understand that since the arms companies were interested, it means that not everything was going smoothly there. These are the questions I would like to receive an answer to.
    Thank you. smile
    A couple more illustrations for the locomotive theme, I liked the pictures, pure pastoral. wink

    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 12 December 2020 05: 52
      +16
      Thanks to Vyacheslav Olegovich!
      Uncle Kostya, a similar railway was waiting for us at the end of the last century and the beginning of the last century.
      After the appearance of the Trans-Siberian Railway, railway branches of concessions, factories and partnerships stretched to it in streams.
      Some of these segments were taken over by the Transsib itself.
      For example, Sredne-Uralsky from Perm to Yekaterinburg was awarded a gold medal in Paris as one of the most difficult in technical solutions.
      Although I will give a photo of another piece of SVZhD. Tunnel near Didino village.

      Abandoned today. In this connection, a meca for tourists and diggers of different stripes!
      1. The leader of the Redskins
        The leader of the Redskins 12 December 2020 07: 50
        +10
        I join your words of gratitude to Vyacheslav Olegovis.
        You know, I was still very much struck by the sculptural complex in Oklahoma - what a frozen dynamics!
        In general, Saturday evening starts well! It's a pity only to go to work)))
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 12 December 2020 07: 53
          +11
          It's a pity only to go to work)))
          I would rather soon, if I stayed at home.
          1. The leader of the Redskins
            The leader of the Redskins 12 December 2020 08: 14
            +9
            I would have your worries!
            The object is for rent, so I went out last Sunday! Tired as a dog, lost count of days!
            But, we hope for a good bonus for the New Year holidays)))
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 12 December 2020 08: 17
              +11
              Do not believe me, I also have an object for rent, but I can't even get behind the wheel request
              1. The leader of the Redskins
                The leader of the Redskins 12 December 2020 08: 22
                +11
                Are you on sick leave? Due to the pandemic? In any case, a speedy recovery and the opportunity to do your usual business!)
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 12 December 2020 08: 26
                  +13
                  He injured his right arm, the second week in a cast.
                  Thank you for your kind words, Igor!
                  1. The leader of the Redskins
                    The leader of the Redskins 12 December 2020 08: 33
                    +10
                    Recover. All the best.
                    1. military_cat
                      military_cat 12 December 2020 15: 32
                      +2
                      In fact, it was an artificially organized scam of a gigantic scale.
                      In my opinion, recently everything is called a "scam". This word no longer means anything, but simply represents an emotional curse. The railroads were built, the trains started up, the economy started to grow - and it's still a "scam".
                  2. Phil77
                    Phil77 12 December 2020 09: 18
                    +13
                    Hi Anton, you should be more careful, you need to take care of your hands. wink

                    But seriously, I wish you recovery!
                    1. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 12 December 2020 09: 43
                      +9
                      Thank you, Sergey!
                  3. Undecim
                    Undecim 12 December 2020 09: 21
                    +13
                    He injured his right arm, the second week in a cast.
                    Negroes - were the helpers beaten?
                    1. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 12 December 2020 09: 44
                      +10
                      Negroes - were the helpers beaten?
                      Nearly! laughing
                      1. Phil77
                        Phil77 12 December 2020 09: 48
                        +9
                        Quote: 3x3zsave
                        Nearly!

                        Lord! Is he really in St. Petersburg? He works? And * screwed up *? laughing
                      2. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 12 December 2020 09: 51
                        +11
                        No, this one does not know how to work.
                    2. Astra wild2
                      Astra wild2 12 December 2020 20: 57
                      +5
                      Quote: 3x3zsave
                      Negroes - were the helpers beaten?
                      Nearly! laughing

                      So you work as an overseer? Negroes, gays, prch they won't forgive you for this
                    3. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 12 December 2020 21: 05
                      +4
                      No, I work as a builder.
                      And they will forgive me. For I never put myself above another person.
                    4. Astra wild2
                      Astra wild2 13 December 2020 08: 41
                      +3
                      I don't doubt you, but blacks in America don't care. They started black racism, and he is worse than white. It seems so to me
                    5. Phil77
                      Phil77 13 December 2020 12: 30
                      +4
                      Quote: Astra wild2
                      They started black racism, and he is worse than white. It seems so to me

                      Vera, what do you think, when did they start it? So, it did not arise today, and not even yesterday. But a hundred years ago! It was in 1920 that a certain Marcus Garvey created the World Association for the Better Life, attention! NEGROV. Among other things he also asserted the superiority of the black race over the white. This was then followed by a variety of Martin Luthera Books, Marcus X, * Black Panthers *, * Republics of new Africa *, and other diversity.
                    6. Astra wild2
                      Astra wild2 13 December 2020 15: 11
                      +3
                      Sergey, you know so much! Even about this book.
                    7. Phil77
                      Phil77 13 December 2020 16: 15
                      +2
                      Quote: Astra wild2
                      a book

                      Typo! Just noticed. KING.MARTIN LUTHER KING. bully

                      Happens? Happens.
        2. Astra wild2
          Astra wild2 12 December 2020 20: 53
          +4
          No: "Slipped, fell, wake up-plaster"
      2. kalibr
        12 December 2020 09: 22
        +9
        Eh, this is bad. Get well, Anton! And ... if something doesn’t grow together or you need it to grow together quickly, drink the drug from our Penza company PARAFARM - Osteomed. If necessary, I will send it to you. This is "no fools", a unique drug used by the Russian Olympic team, a diploma from Putin from the head of the company. I don’t know how it is in St. Petersburg, but we sell it. Only the instructions must be read very carefully and not a step away from it!
        1. Roman_LKW
          Roman_LKW 12 December 2020 09: 40
          +12
          There is also a proven folk remedy so that the bone grows together and the X-ray does not find a fracture site - at the bazaar in the meat row from the butchers you need to buy beef bones - "horses", of which you cook jellied meat for 3 to 6 hours, and then eat it, pure calcium , so doctors will grow together and will not notice.
          1. kalibr
            12 December 2020 09: 43
            +9
            I am afraid of some folk remedies. The dosage is unclear there. And this drug has been tested many times ... There is even a European patent, which is very difficult to obtain for a "drug from Russia".
          2. Fat
            Fat 12 December 2020 11: 46
            +5
            Quote: kalibr
            I am afraid of some folk remedies. The dosage is unclear there.

            About how! good I'll write it down in my notebook so I won't forget.
        2. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 12 December 2020 09: 47
          +7
          Thank you, I heard about this method.
        3. Undecim
          Undecim 12 December 2020 10: 01
          +11
          This is complete bullshit. Especially about "doctors will not notice."
        4. garri-lin
          garri-lin 12 December 2020 11: 59
          +8
          Khash also perfectly saturates the body with calcium. And he's hot. It's not chilly in winter.
      3. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 12 December 2020 09: 46
        +7
        Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich! I will look.
        1. kalibr
          12 December 2020 11: 49
          +4
          Quote: 3x3zsave
          I’ll look.

          I can send!
        2. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 12 December 2020 11: 52
          +5
          It would be great! Thank you!
        3. kalibr
          12 December 2020 13: 12
          +3
          That is, send? Send the address in a personal ...
        4. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 12 December 2020 13: 16
          +4
          Yes, of course.
  • Undecim
    Undecim 12 December 2020 09: 59
    +12
    diploma from Putin
    This is alarming.
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 12 December 2020 10: 53
      +10
      Young man, you are frivolous about your own health and neglect safety measures. In such cases, it is required to use improvised items, in the absence of them, it is permissible to use a leg, but by no means with your hands!
      Anton, my friend, I sincerely sympathize, and as a preventive measure, now, immediately, I will go and drink to your health. drinks
      You make you drink in the morning. laughing

      Well, how can you not have a drink when you are shivering at the sight of you! drinks
    2. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 12 December 2020 11: 28
      +6
      Thank you, Uncle Kostya!
    3. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 12 December 2020 12: 45
      +7
      Antonische, come on get well !!!
    4. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 12 December 2020 13: 00
      +7
      Thanks, I am trying!
  • Phil77
    Phil77 12 December 2020 11: 39
    +8
    Quote: Sea Cat
    Well, how can you not have a drink when you are shivering at the sight of you!

    To your health! drinks

    laughing
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 12 December 2020 21: 06
    +2
    Constantine, inspired by "as a pig finds dirt and a drunkard a reason to drink"
  • Catfish
    Catfish 12 December 2020 21: 33
    +4
    Thank you, you flattered me, no one has ever compared me with a pig. Sincerely grateful.
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 13 December 2020 08: 28
    +3
    Least of all I wanted to offend you. I just read it at school and remembered
  • bubalik
    bubalik 12 December 2020 13: 29
    +8
    ,,, everything will be fine. ,,, let her rest for now! Anton, greetings hi
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 12 December 2020 13: 46
      +5
      Thank you, Sergey!
      1. Phil77
        Phil77 12 December 2020 15: 06
        +8
        Quote: 3x3zsave
        Sergei!

        I'll correct my friend Sergei a little. what
      2. depressant
        depressant 12 December 2020 17: 06
        +4
        Here I am a muddler! (((
        Anton broke his limb, and I passed the amazing topic of Vyacheslav Olegovich. I looked - the engines, so not his.
        Anton - quickly and more successfully grow together to a state suitable for normal life)))
      3. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 12 December 2020 19: 44
        +4
        Thank you, Lyudmila Yakovlevna! It's just a minor fracture. I broke even worse ... True, not bones, and sometimes not to myself.
      4. depressant
        depressant 12 December 2020 20: 01
        +3
        But when not for yourself, this is a permissible damage to someone else's property, and you should not substitute your own - neither under someone else's fist, nor under the environment. Even if drunk and not shaved)))
      5. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 12 December 2020 20: 10
        +5
        Damn, I didn't beat anyone !!! Although, maybe it was worth it ... And I've been unshaven for a quarter of a century already.
      6. Phil77
        Phil77 13 December 2020 16: 23
        +3
        Quote: 3x3zsave
        Yes, I did not beat anyone !!!

        And now the main question! laughing laughing laughing
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 12 December 2020 20: 50
    +2
    My poet, get well. Probably, remember, in Nosov: "Which disease is better", but there a broken arm does not appear as a "good" disease
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 13 December 2020 16: 46
      +2
      Thanks, I am trying!
  • kalibr
    12 December 2020 09: 25
    +10
    Quote: Leader of the Redskins
    You know, I was still very much struck by the sculptural complex in Oklahoma - what a frozen dynamics!

    What's that. I visited the site of the Oklahoma City Hall, there is a plan of this motument and a lot of photos in detail ... even a hat flies off one! I want to try to get more photos of this monument ...
  • Olgovich
    Olgovich 12 December 2020 11: 34
    +9
    Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
    After the appearance Trans-Siberian mainline, to it the railway branches of concessions, factories and partnerships stretched in streams.
    Some of these segments were taken over by the Transsib itself.
    For example, Sredne-Uralsky from Perm to Yekaterinburg was awarded a gold medal in Paris as one of the most difficult in technical solutions.
    Although I will give a photo of another piece of SVZhD. Tunnel near the village of Didino.

    Great photo, thank you!

    As far as I can see, the walls are made of granite. How they built it for centuries!

    As for the Trans-Siberian route, little is known, it also existed before the railway: it was a water-railway route: it was possible to get to Vdadivostok from St. never sat on a cart.

    And for this, a gigantic work was also carried out: In 1883-1887. the Ob-Yenisei water system was built: a number of river channels were cleared, deepened, and even straightened, canals were dug, dams and sluices were built. The route went from St. Petersburg along the Volga-Baltic water system to Perm, then along the island railway Perm-Yekaterinburg-Tyumen, then along the Obsko-Yenisei and Selenginsk water systems and further along the Amur up to the Pacific Ocean. The length of this route was over 10 km.

    Ob-Yenisei Canal:

    What a beauty!

    1. gsev
      gsev 13 December 2020 19: 52
      +1
      Quote: Olgovich
      then, which is little known, it also existed to the railway: it was a water-railway route: to get to Vdadivostok from St.

      Apparently the topic of the history of transport routes in Russia is very interesting and is waiting for its historian on this site.
  • kalibr
    12 December 2020 07: 46
    +6
    Quote: Sea Cat
    but what about the Indians, were the allotments given to the whites in their lands? How did this happen?

    There will be about it!
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 12 December 2020 07: 54
      +6
      Vyacheslav Olegovich, could you please write a material about cliometry?
      1. kalibr
        12 December 2020 09: 18
        +5
        And he was already, Anton. I inserted some examples from it here. But it was a long time ago: https: //topwar.ru/98799-kliometriya-dilizhansy-i-raby.html
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 12 December 2020 09: 49
          +5
          Oh, thanks, I will definitely read it!
  • Olgovich
    Olgovich 12 December 2020 11: 21
    +5
    Quote: Sea Cat
    Vyacheslav, thank you for a completely unexpected and interesting topic, I have never read anything about the Homestead Act, and I have not heard of Race for the Ground.

    Hello, Konstantin.

    But you've probably read Jack London about dog racing to stake out a gold mine. Roughly the same thing here.

    but I do not agree with the respected author on something: the construction of the transcontinental railroad was undertaken not at all for the occupation of "extra" hands: this was demanded by the rapidly developing US industry. Not on horses to carry goods or around the continent in ships. With, supposedly, "extra" hands, it would not have been necessary to import Chinese - the extra ones would work for $ 1.

    It's the same with this:
    Most of the negroes stayed in the South, familiar to them. Nobody needed them in the North - after all, they couldn’t do anything. They could not compete with whites in factories and factories.

    White migrants from Europe were also by no means high-class workers: the vast majority of them were bankrupt or landless poor peasants without professions
    Quote: Sea Cat
    I wonder how it was with the Indians, were allotments given to the whites in their lands?

    The same as with the bison ...
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 12 December 2020 11: 35
      +4
      Good morning Andrey. hi
      The same as with the bison ...

      So the details are interesting, the white brothers did not always beat the Redskins, and vice versa, after all, it happened.
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 12 December 2020 14: 26
        +2
        Quote: Sea Cat
        The details are so interesting

        In great detail and informative, in my opinion, here: https: //russian.rt.com/science/article/629663-istoriya-ssha-zheleznaya-doroga
    2. kalibr
      12 December 2020 11: 45
      +2
      Quote: Olgovich
      The transcontinental railroad was not undertaken to occupy "extra" hands: this was required by the rapidly developing US industry. It’s not on horses to carry goods or around the continent in ships. With, supposedly, "extra" hands, there would be no need to import Chinese - the extra ones would work for $ 1.

      Wrong! It was precisely by the methods of cliotmetry that it was proved that the "rapidly developing industry" could develop in a different direction. Read: https://topwar.ru/98799-kliometriya-dilizhansy-i-raby.html
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 12 December 2020 13: 30
        +4
        Quote: kalibr
        Wrong!

        Incorrect, it appears. you: as early as 1853-1855 (ie, before the GR. War), the US Department of War organized geographic studies of a territory with a total area of ​​about 1 million square meters. km with a view selection of the railway route.

        As a result of scientific research, three potential construction routes were developed: the northern one - along the Missouri, the central one in the Platte River area, and the southern one - through Texas. They decided to stop on the central route, which was actively lobbied by the famous American railway engineer Theodore Judah. IN 1862 yearfrom the President of the United States Abraham Lincoln signed the so-called Pacific Railroad Act (Pacific Railroad Act), regulating construction.

        Those. BEFORE the Civil War and BEFORE its end, it was decided to build it, which contradicts your version that the decision to build a railway was made, allegedly, after Gr. wars with the aim of ... to occupy "extra" people.

        And yes, with "extra hands" thousands of Chinese are not brought to the construction site, because the extra ones work for the soup, see. Great depression.
        1. kalibr
          12 December 2020 16: 26
          0
          I gave you a link to the article. After reading it, you can ask relevant questions on the Internet. Materials will open in which there are links to the relevant works of the relevant authors, including, however, the Nobile laureate. It is clear that our people are ... not an argument that it takes time to read. But here I can’t do anything. I trust my sources. The fact that the track was being studied, that they wanted to conduct it ... and the fact that so many working hands were discovered was just a gift of fate for the United States. "The stars came together."
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 12 December 2020 20: 33
            +1
            Quote: kalibr
            I gave you a link to the article... After reading it, you can ask relevant questions on the Internet. Materials will open in which there are links to the relevant works of the relevant authors, including, however, the Nobile laureate. It is clear that our people are ... not an argument that it takes time to read. But here I can’t do anything. I trust my sources. The fact that the track was being studied, that they wanted to conduct it ... and the fact that so many working hands were discovered was just a gift of fate for the United States. "Stars came together"

            And I tell you the facts: the decision to build was made much earlier than the appearance of "extra" hands, for which, allegedly, it was decided to build.

            I read the article on the link, thanks, but there is the same thing as in this article, nothing new

            PS: And another possible direction of development that you mention is this passage from that article:
            that is instead of rails dwould eat horseshoes and nails, cargo carried in vans and stagecoaches (latitudinal direction), and in the meridional direction - by steamers and barges along the rivers!
            ? belay

            Is this ... serious? belay
            1. kalibr
              12 December 2020 21: 23
              -1
              Quote: Olgovich
              PS: And another possible direction of development that you mention is this passage from that article:
              that is, instead of rails, they would make horseshoes and nails, carry goods in vans and stagecoaches (latitudinal direction), and in the meridional direction - by steamers and barges along rivers!
              ?

              Is this ... serious?

              Imagine yes. An analysis of the mass of documents of that time proved this absolutely precisely. Pay less attention to the political economy of socialism. In other countries, people are also not fools ...
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 13 December 2020 08: 47
                +1
                Quote: kalibr
                Imagine yes.

                Those. Are you serious about reality successful competition of stagecoaches in the carriage of goods with .... the railroad. belay

                No words, yes ... hi
                1. kalibr
                  13 December 2020 10: 01
                  0
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  No words, yes ...

                  Well, no, and don't. Let's talk when you surpass the creator of cliotmetry ...
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 13 December 2020 11: 34
                    0
                    Quote: kalibr
                    Let's talk when you surpass the creator of cliotmetry ...

                    For a long time she surpassed life: where are the stagecoaches? And where is the railway
        2. kalibr
          12 December 2020 16: 30
          -2
          Quote: Olgovich
          Those. BEFORE the Civil War and BEFORE its end, it was decided to build it, which contradicts your version that the decision to build a railway was made, allegedly, after Gr. wars to ... occupy "extra" people

          Making a decision to build and starting to build are two different things! Not with one click of your fingers! We have now decided to complete the construction of the Nord Stream and are completing everything ...
  • Phil77
    Phil77 12 December 2020 12: 37
    +9
    Quote: Sea Cat
    Good morning friends and a great weekend everyone!

    Sad news arrived.
    Died Valentin Gaft, 85 years old.
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 12 December 2020 19: 50
      +4
      A lot of good people left this year ...
    2. Okolotochny
      Okolotochny 16 December 2020 14: 28
      -1
      GLOBE !!! I especially remember his lines about the phone numbers of his departed friends. I sincerely grieve.
  • apro
    apro 12 December 2020 04: 55
    -9
    But the fact that the common people (who were the main supplier of soldiers) lived better and better year after year is an indisputable historical fact.

    And then bloody Jewish Bolsheviks appeared and ruined everything ...
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 12 December 2020 05: 38
      +11
      Dear Apro, why do you need a pug on a completely different topic on Saturday morning?
      1. apro
        apro 12 December 2020 05: 48
        -6
        Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Dear Apro, why do you need a pug on a completely different topic on Saturday morning?

        Have you read the article?
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 12 December 2020 07: 23
          +10
          Dear Apro, you can read "pug" as "srach"!
          So why was it to arrange it from morning until earlier?
          To prove that it is “good” to live in Russia?
          To the handle in the 17th the people were brought to the "top", which plunged Russia into the chaos of the First World War! But otherwise, people tried to live better, to eat more varied. Moreover, this is a global trend and had a positive trend both in the USSR and in the Russian Federation.
          1. apro
            apro 12 December 2020 07: 25
            -8
            Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Dear Apro, you can read "pug" as "srach"!

            If the author focuses on this issue, then he is pursuing some goals ...
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 12 December 2020 07: 30
              +10
              By no means, the author talks about cliometry, but you are the one who focuses on it.
              1. apro
                apro 12 December 2020 07: 33
                -6
                Quote: 3x3zsave
                the author talks about cliometry

                This means that I chose the examples well and very controversial.
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 12 December 2020 07: 47
                  +8
                  I know, in axes, how Shpakovsky works, I talked to him on this topic more than once. In this case, he did not choose anything, he simply did not have time for it. I took the first example I came across and inserted it into the article. Thus, your insinuation is just a figment of your imagination.
                  1. apro
                    apro 12 December 2020 07: 52
                    -6
                    Quote: 3x3zsave
                    In this case, he did not choose anything

                    It means to be irresponsible in your work.
                    1. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 12 December 2020 08: 02
                      +8
                      The criteria for responsibility in the work are determined by the one who pays money for this work, and this is clearly not you.
                      1. apro
                        apro 12 December 2020 08: 04
                        -8
                        Quote: 3x3zsave
                        The criteria for responsibility in the work are determined by the one who pays money for this work, and this is clearly not you.

                        And then the readers are tormented .... what did the author mean.
                      2. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 12 December 2020 08: 09
                        +9
                        Note, none of the commentators are tormented, except for you. Maybe the matter is not in this article by Shpakovsky?
              2. kalibr
                12 December 2020 08: 07
                +6
                You can take the magazine Rodina №№1,2,3 for 2012 yourself and read the article by Boris Mironov, Doctor of Historical Sciences. LESSONS OF THE 1917 REVOLUTION Everything there (befitting a scientific article) is given with links to sources, a lot of diagrams by year, up to the number of people in psychiatric hospitals from 1896 to 1914 (by the way, it also grew!). Then it will be possible to argue. The trouble with many VO commentators is incomplete knowledge.
                1. apro
                  apro 12 December 2020 08: 12
                  -5
                  Quote: kalibr
                  The trouble with many VO commentators is incomplete knowledge.

                  The trouble with many commentators is that they overly trust some interpreters of knowledge ...
                  1. kalibr
                    12 December 2020 09: 12
                    +5
                    Quote: apro
                    The trouble with many commentators is that they overly trust some interpreters of knowledge ...

                    The source has been written to you. Don't trust, you need to check! And then to raise your ass too lazy to go to the library, but we write as if we have written a Ph.D. thesis on the topic ...
                  2. CTABEP
                    CTABEP 12 December 2020 09: 24
                    +9
                    The trouble with many commentators is that they light up lower backs because of a fact they did not like.
                    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                      Kote Pan Kokhanka 12 December 2020 12: 50
                      +7
                      Quote: CTABEP
                      The trouble with many commentators is that they light up lower backs because of a fact they did not like.

                      Let's be honest, a number of Authors also respond to criticism of their articles !!!
                      Probably the main thing is mutual respect !!!
                    2. kalibr
                      12 December 2020 16: 20
                      +2
                      Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
                      Probably the main thing is mutual respect !!!

                      "Mutual respect", Vladislav, an ignoramus and a boor perceives as your weakness!
                    3. vladcub
                      vladcub 12 December 2020 19: 06
                      +4
                      Quote: kalibr
                      Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
                      Probably the main thing is mutual respect !!!

                      "Mutual respect", Vladislav, an ignoramus and a boor perceives as your weakness!

                      Conclusion: should a boor be spoken to in a language he understands?
                    4. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 12 December 2020 19: 56
                      +4
                      That's right!
                    5. Catfish
                      Catfish 12 December 2020 20: 48
                      +4
                      Often the boor takes only one argument.
                    6. Astra wild2
                      Astra wild2 12 December 2020 21: 14
                      +1
                      Anton, in this case, an epidemic of rudeness will begin?
                    7. kalibr
                      12 December 2020 21: 26
                      0
                      Quote: Astra wild2
                      in this case, an epidemic of rudeness will begin?

                      Will not start! He said FREQUENTLY, so we are talking about specific cases. We admonish someone like a brother in Christ, remind someone of ... upbringing and manners ... and for someone, even by looking, you can get sparks from your eyes! Yes, Astra - and some do not accept other arguments.
                    8. Fat
                      Fat 12 December 2020 23: 41
                      0
                      Quote: kalibr
                      Quote: Astra wild2
                      in this case, an epidemic of rudeness will begin?

                      Will not start! He said FREQUENTLY, so we are talking about specific cases. We admonish someone like a brother in Christ, remind someone of ... upbringing and manners ... and for someone, even by looking, you can get sparks from your eyes! Yes, Astra - and some do not accept other arguments.

                      A real "Russian intellectual" will not send a boor with 3 letters - this is
                      too boring and uncivilized, it's easier to get a Beretta ...
                    9. kalibr
                      13 December 2020 06: 19
                      0
                      Quote: Thick
                      easier - to get Beretta ...

                      But where can I get it. This is from the realm of unscientific fiction. My version is simpler ... but you have to be in good physical shape, that's for sure.
                  3. Astra wild2
                    Astra wild2 13 December 2020 08: 37
                    +1
                    Here I agree. Some require an accessible language
    2. Undecim
      Undecim 12 December 2020 09: 27
      +12
      The trouble with many commentators is that they overly trust some interpreters of knowledge ...
      In order to criticize the interpreters of knowledge in some area of ​​knowledge, one must, at least, have this knowledge not less, but preferably more.
      1. apro
        apro 12 December 2020 09: 56
        -3
        Quote: Undecim
        to have this knowledge not less, but rather more.

        And different ...
      2. kalibr
        12 December 2020 13: 16
        +2
        So get it. Where to get - I wrote.
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 12 December 2020 21: 11
    +2
    And you write better, otherwise it's easy to criticize
    1. kalibr
      12 December 2020 21: 28
      0
      And I wrote and gave a link where to read. You just need to go to the address and read ...
      1. Astra wild2
        Astra wild2 13 December 2020 08: 33
        +1
        Vyacheslav Olegovich, I addressed Apro's comment. He undertook to criticize you, but I did not see any arguments
  • Olgovich
    Olgovich 12 December 2020 11: 57
    -2
    Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
    The people were brought up to the handle in the 17th "top", which plunged Russia into the chaos of the First World War! But otherwise, people tried to live better, eat more varied.

    As for the "pens", in Germany, England and France they were much worse: Russia single the country of PMV, where there was no hunger, as in the West, incl. from hundreds of thousands hunger deaths like in Germany

    And to eat like under the "damned" tsarism in 1913, our people were fortunate enough after forty years of continuous titanic struggles - see the report of the Central Statistical Office of 1955
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 12 December 2020 12: 57
      +8
      Olegovich, the trouble of any monarchical system is the person at the head of the state!
      Here I am of the opinion of Mikhail (the Master of Trilobite) I deeply chew who the "boss" is the most important for me, that I be proud of the Fatherland !!!
      What's the point of poking a finger at those who "came and took" if a country with such a margin of safety (judging by your comments) could be ruined by "crooks". The latter also follows from your conclusions !!!
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 12 December 2020 14: 21
        +1
        Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
        What's the point of poking a finger at those who "came and took" if a country with such a margin of safety (judging by your comments) could be ruined by "crooks". The latter also follows from your conclusions !!!

        It was not about that, but about the "pen" (in the context of the article, about nutrition). But Russia was better than everyone else. Those. it's not her.

        About strength: any strength has a limit. In the conditions of the most terrible war in the history of the world, this limit was reached. And not only here. But you can support, or you can push.

        There is enough of the notorious straw, than those mentioned meanly took advantage of.

        And the margin of safety in Russia turned out to be really large - to exist for seventy years as it happened under them, no country could have disappeared.

        And Russia was able, albeit with the Russian cross and the borders of the 17th century, achieved by the very ones.
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 12 December 2020 07: 05
    +8
    The social aspect, of course, also took place.
    This experience was also applied by Roosevelt as one of the ways to overcome the consequences of the "Great Depression". Highways were just being built.
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich!
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 12 December 2020 07: 17
    +5
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich!
    And on the height and weight of our recruits for the last thirty years, data did not come across?
    1. kalibr
      12 December 2020 07: 45
      +5
      Quote: Korsar4
      And on the height and weight of our recruits for the last thirty years, data did not come across?

      Нет!
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 12 December 2020 07: 48
        +5
        Since the term "biometrics" is close, I immediately felt the disposition to "cliometry".
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 12 December 2020 07: 22
    +10
    And about the route of the railways. One of my favorite stories about my beloved city Kologriv. There is a train station there. And there is no railroad. She went through Manturovo.
    1. A. Privalov
      A. Privalov 12 December 2020 11: 33
      +5
      Quote: Korsar4
      And about the route of the railways. One of my favorite stories about my beloved city Kologriv. There is a train station there. And there is no railroad. She went through Manturovo.

      During the time of "perestroika" I ended up in Kologriv due to the state need. I was amazed by the never-cobbled streets and the military unit that lived on the eerie ruins of some old educational institution. I wonder how the city has changed over the past 35 years.
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 12 December 2020 17: 30
        +5
        Three thousand population in the city. And three in the area.

        And a magical place - the Kologoivsky forest reserve.
      2. Korsar4
        Korsar4 12 December 2020 17: 44
        +6
        One of the strongest impressions is the list of those killed in the Great Patriotic War. Whole families. And it is clear how much larger the city was.
  • Jünger
    Jünger 12 December 2020 07: 22
    +2
    A mass of first-class human material was then living in the United States. Hardworking and talented white people. They will quickly restore what you want and do, as they work for themselves.
    1. Roman_LKW
      Roman_LKW 12 December 2020 09: 53
      +2
      The same "gold rush", when the capitalists realized that a person is most worried about personal gain and the opportunity to earn money, then no parties, "collective farms", ideologies will replace his "daily bread". While Russia was dealing with the Civil War, then a new "Soviet man" was created, society naturally developed in the West, people earned decent money, entrepreneurs created new industries, scientists came up with new technologies, and this is all natural. In Russia, social experiments were carried out, contrary to human nature. The striving for the personal is natural, and the compulsion to the general, the social is alien to human nature, which was proved by the collapse of the USSR.
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 12 December 2020 10: 38
        +6
        in the west, society developed naturally, people earned decent money,
        Not always. Have you heard the song "16 tons"?
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 12 December 2020 20: 42
          +3
          "Farewell women, native brothel, sixteen tons fell to the ground ..." (free Russian "translation" of the Song of a Miner).
          But seriously, I downloaded myself in a luxurious performance by Paul Robson, but I can't transfer it here. Maybe you can tell me how to do it.
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 12 December 2020 20: 58
            +2
            Well, in order not to use obscenities today, I'll explain tomorrow, okay?
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 12 December 2020 21: 00
              +2
              Okay tomorrow. What drew you to the mat? Something is wrong?
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 12 December 2020 21: 19
                +3
                Because in this case, the US authorities just did not use the OV against their citizens.
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 12 December 2020 21: 38
                  +1
                  In which case and against which citizens? Citizens, they are different, sometimes an atomic bomb can be thrown somewhere, it will be safer to live.
                  In general, this is their own business, we at least figure out how to deal with our problems.
          2. Alf
            Alf 12 December 2020 21: 22
            +3
            Quote: Sea Cat
            But seriously, I downloaded myself in a luxurious performance by Paul Robson, but I can't transfer it here. Maybe you can tell me how to do it.

            Will not work. Here you can send only a photo from a computer, all videos are only from the URL online, from a hard disk it will not work, which is a pity.
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 12 December 2020 21: 32
              +2
              True, it's a pity, the song is excellent, Robson's performance and bass ... pity.
              1. Alf
                Alf 12 December 2020 21: 34
                +2
                Quote: Sea Cat
                True, it's a pity, the song is excellent, Robson's performance and bass ... pity.

                You can collectively ask VO hosts to create the ability to download videos directly from your hard drive.
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 12 December 2020 21: 35
                  +1
                  You can, of course, but I suppose they already know.
              2. Fat
                Fat 13 December 2020 00: 00
                +1
                Quote: Sea Cat
                True, it's a pity, the song is excellent, Robson's performance and bass ... pity.

                Paul Robson never recorded 16 tons. The recording is mistaken for a performance by The Platters (lead vocals: Herbert Read). Apparently, this is due to a mistake by the unknown compiler of the Mp3 collection "44 Tunes Of Sixteen Tons" that appeared on the Internet in 2003. On this compilation, the "classic" version of The Platters is duplicated - already under the authorship of allegedly Paul Robson ...
                https://yandex.ru/video/preview/?text=16%20тонн%20песня%20platters&path=wizard&parent-reqid=1607806523053849-727109707673492203300302-production-app-host-sas-web-yp-131&wiz_type=vital&filmId=17757495774361340913
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 13 December 2020 01: 12
                  +2
                  I don't know, I won't argue, but since childhood this song has been associated with the name of Paul Robson. I was five years old when he flew to Moscow, and all the youth, as best they could, sang this song.
                  1. Fat
                    Fat 13 December 2020 03: 00
                    0
                    It is possible that Robson performed 16 tones in Moscow in 1958 (one of the translations of the song into Russian dates back to this time). At the very beginning of the 60s, a collection was published in the USSR, where the song was included, without specifying the artist.

                    Paul Robson and Boris Polevoy. Photo: Nikolay Privalov.
                    There is a film about this visit.
      2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 12 December 2020 13: 02
        +5
        ... ... in the West, society developed in a natural way, people earned decent money, entrepreneurs created new industries, scientists came up with new technologies, and this is all natural.

        The Great Depression of the late 20s? Clowns in the form of Hitler and Mussolini? What is your norm? A natural product of the development of a "normal society"!
        The problems of the ideology of the "Soviet man" are different, one should not confuse the warm with the soft.
        Regards, Kote!
        1. Jünger
          Jünger 12 December 2020 20: 17
          0
          Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
          The Great Depression of the late 20s? Clowns in the form of Hitler and Mussolini? What is your norm? A natural product of the development of a "normal society"!

          Yes exactly. Just like illness and death are a natural product of human development. There is no development without failures.
  • igordok
    igordok 12 December 2020 09: 43
    +2
    An interesting topic about the railway of Russia and the USSR. About the US Railways, also a few words.
  • Senior seaman
    Senior seaman 12 December 2020 09: 44
    +5
    Hmm. Russia also had a surplus of free land, but there was no main thing - freedom of movement. Let me remind you that the Russian peasants received the opportunity to choose their place of residence only in 1906.
    The resettlement policy, of course, was carried out, but ... the authorities wanted to decide for themselves where and in what quantity the peasants would move.
  • Fitter65
    Fitter65 12 December 2020 09: 52
    +5
    So, the data on the biological indicators of conscripts in the Russian army clearly proved that from year to year the growth, weight and muscle mass of recruits increased! (Why? From hunger or from the wind?)
    This is from desolation. Under Soviet Power, there was no such thing as underweight for a conscript, well, this can be easily explained. In the eternally starving and in all needy USSR, thousands of soldiers were needed to protect the people's property from the collective farmers swelling with hunger, and the convicts working at the construction sites of socialism so as not to run away .. Therefore, the conscripts were specially fed. Those who did not want to eat away, or were repressed as enemies of the people, or died of hunger while working on collective farms. And then the shackles collapsed and freedom ... In the new democratic Russia at the end of the 90s, conscripts with underweight (natural dystrophies) began to appear who were sent from the beginning to special teams where they were fattened, in 2008-9 we had a training session, which was formed on the basis of our OBSi RTO, a dozen of such "children of democratic Russia" - this is not a tolitarian USSR for you ...
    1. Olgovich
      Olgovich 12 December 2020 14: 00
      0
      Quote: Fitter65
      Russia "is not a tolitarian USSR for you ...

      This is yes: in Russia they never died from the wild hunger in the years of peace .... IN THE TWENTY CENTURY many, many MILLIONS of people - with massive cannibalism, corpse-eating and eating fell, incl. and in 30 years of power owls.

      CA FSB RF. F. 2. Op. 11.D. 42.L. 74, 75, 76, 77, 78:
      VOLODARSKY RAYO Having no food at all, by agreement with his elder sister, a 9-year-old boy killed a 3-year-old girl (sister), after which they cut off her head and ate the meat of the corpse raw.
      CHERNYAKHOVSKY DISTRICT. In the village of Andreev, F *** died of malnutrition. 11-year-old boy - cut open the belly of his deceased father with a knife, took out the insides and prepared them to boil.
      VINNYTSIA REGION ...
      In the village of Pinkovka, poor collective farmer K ***, 50 years old, killed his two daughters, 7 and 9 years old, whose meat he used for food.

      in any africa it was not, yes ...
    2. Astra wild2
      Astra wild2 12 December 2020 18: 08
      +2
      Fitter, do you remember what the industry was like in Russia before 1917?
      1. Fitter65
        Fitter65 13 December 2020 01: 34
        0
        Quote: Astra wild2
        Fitter, do you remember what the industry was like in Russia before 1917?

        Of course I remember, the most advanced ...
  • Undecim
    Undecim 12 December 2020 12: 32
    +8
    A way out was found in the construction of railways and, above all, a transcontinental highway across the country.
    I will try to supplement the author a little.
    In reality, the situation was somewhat different. It’s harder and more interesting.
    By 1850, 14 kilometers of railways had been built in the United States. For comparison, in the Russian Empire in 000 the first railway line with a length of 1851 kilometers was opened. In the southern states, 650 percent of the farms were located within 80 kilometers of the train station.
    And the first concrete plan for a transcontinental railroad in the United States was presented to Congress by dry goods merchant Asa Whitney in 1845.
    In 1847, Dr. Hartwell Carver presented to the US Congress "A Proposal for a Charter for the Construction of a Railway from Lake Michigan to the Pacific Ocean."
    Congress supported the idea. Under the leadership of the Department of War, a detailed survey was carried out from 1853 to 1855 covering an area of ​​1 square kilometers. The exploration report described possible routes and included a wealth of information about the American West, right down to the natural history of the region and illustrations of the reptiles, amphibians, birds, and mammals that inhabit the area.
    To describe the whole story, you need several articles, so briefly.
    In 1862, 1864, and 1867, a series of laws were passed on the Pacific Railway, construction of which began in 1863. In May 1869, construction on the First Transcontinental Railroad was completed. From New York to San Francisco, it took six days.
  • Engineer
    Engineer 12 December 2020 13: 58
    +6
    So, the data on the biological indicators of conscripts in the Russian army clearly proved that from year to year the growth, weight and muscle mass of conscripts increased!

    In general, reverse statements are circulating on the Internet. That the height and weight of recruits in Ingushetia in the second half of the 19th century decreased. This is connected, among other things, with the hypothetical impoverishment after the abolition of serfdom. They like to quote Kuropatkin's words that many conscripts only in the army could taste meat. Frankly, I took it on faith.
    After the author's article I looked a little

    The growth of recruits by year of birth. By Whitcroft
    It turns out the author is right. And the abolition of serfdom was a turning point
    1. Astra wild2
      Astra wild2 12 December 2020 20: 09
      +2
      "They like to quote the words of Kuropatkin," but he went out dark? Where is the truth?
      1. Engineer
        Engineer 12 December 2020 20: 16
        +2
        Specifically, it is unlikely.
        So it coincided. It's just that personal experience is not equal to statistics. We all know about this, but we constantly forget.
        1. kalibr
          12 December 2020 21: 31
          +1
          Yes, when I was sick recently, I managed to buy medicines without much difficulty and go through an X-ray twice ... and people write that there are huge problems with this in Penza. And probably this is so, if there was about it on the president's website, but personally it hardly affected me.
  • Operator
    Operator 12 December 2020 14: 11
    +4
    The accelerated development of the United States from the middle of the 19th century to the 20th century, in addition to natural resources, a favorable climate and the absence of an external threat, was stimulated by a huge influx of labor resources, absolutely not burdened by children and the elderly.

    Those. For a hundred years, the United States has been skimming the cream of humanity - the most trained and motivated people from both Europe and Asia have emigrated to their territory.

    At the beginning of the 21st century, this flow began to be hampered by the US leadership, since unskilled Hispanics with a mass of children began to dominate among the emigrants, overloading the country's social infrastructure. Plus, the development of the economies of Europe and Asia slowed down the outflow of specialists ("brain drain") to the United States.

    As a result, we see a return of the United States to the situation of the mid-19th century with a slowdown in the pace of the local economy to a level below European, and even more so Chinese, Korean and Vietnamese.

    By the middle of the 21st century, the majority of Latinos and African Americans (whose mentality is sharply different from that of Euro-Americans) are predicted to reach the majority of the US population, after which the "Mexican" America will return to its position two centuries ago - a resource appendage of Europe.

    The loss of the Euro-American Trump in the presidential election is the first blow of the funeral bell for America, which previously collected the cream from all over the world.
    1. Astra wild2
      Astra wild2 12 December 2020 17: 58
      +1
      I agree with you: America after these elections will no longer be the same. Today I heard on TV: there is talk in Texas about secession from the United States, is it going back 300?
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 12 December 2020 20: 02
        +5
        Texas has been talking for 100 years that it wants to secede ... Everything just says ...
        1. Astra wild2
          Astra wild2 12 December 2020 20: 05
          +1
          They didn't tell me about it, did they tell you?
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 12 December 2020 20: 14
            +2
            To me personally, not a single Texan spoke, but the general paradigm, I understand.
  • depressant
    depressant 12 December 2020 17: 40
    +4
    For me, the article is unique. It helped close serious knowledge gaps. For example, from the movie with Cruise and Kidman, it was not clear to me why it was necessary to participate in the races in order to get land. After all, there was as much free land in the States at that time. It turns out that this was no longer the case, they managed to distribute most of them, there was an excess of those willing. I was also convinced that the participation of Negroes from the South in the civil war on the side of the North was a decisive factor in the victory of the northerners, but it is not so - Homestead Act!
    I didn’t know that the US transhighway was not direct at all, and why not direct, there was an explanation in the article. This is how simple and clear the facts are stated that I would never have known if Vyacheslav Olegovich hadn’t taken them into my unenlightened head)))
    By the way, there is a shot from the film: the white-handed Nicole, I don't remember what her name was in the film, without rinsing or wringing out the soapy laundry, throws it onto the rope from a basin of dirty water with a slap - she washed it! )))
    1. kalibr
      12 December 2020 19: 05
      +3
      Quote: depressant
      By the way, there is a shot from the film: the white-handed Nicole, I don't remember what her name was in the film, without rinsing or wringing out the soapy laundry, throws it onto the rope from a basin of dirty water with a slap - she washed it!

      I, too, at one time liked this film with such little things and I began to look for information on those events ...
      1. depressant
        depressant 12 December 2020 19: 49
        +5
        In general, I watch mainly American films. Especially disaster films. Even the most careless ones. A lot is revealed about a country that I will never visit. For example, how thoroughly the society has settled there on its own land. It was thoroughly arranged, in a businesslike manner. Having given birth to a lot of small customs, their own in each town and village and common to the nation - customs and traditions that are sacredly observed, passed down from generation to generation. Which require material investment, effort and time to prepare for some next celebration with the participation of everyone. Whether it's Christmas, Halloween or a local holiday, and everything is in lights, carousel, fair, some kind of competition, prizes, something else. And sadly I look out the window. And there - nothing. Everything has been dead for many years and every year it gets deader. As if the only goal of the inhabitants of my village somehow, mostly difficult and gloomy, to live out their lives, since they were born.
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 12 December 2020 20: 08
          +5
          Combines the observance of traditions. But far from jobs, they are hard to find.

          I think there are “points of joy” in cities and towns?
          Playgrounds could be.
          Churches are for believers.
          Road and path network in parks. It's good when there is a direction by the road.
          Embankments are good places.
        2. Jünger
          Jünger 12 December 2020 20: 24
          +2
          Quote: depressant
          And sadly I look out the window. And there - nothing. Everything has been dead for many years and every year it gets deader

          Our traditions are dead, people for the most part are indifferent or negatively related to religion. As a result, all the cultural features of the post-Soviet person are reduced to "eat and drink". Well, another parade on May 9 to look and drink again.
          1. depressant
            depressant 12 December 2020 20: 39
            +2
            I always watch the parade - my favorite sight)))
            As for the deathly life, I feel sorry for people, not myself, I'm an introvert)))
            As for my habit of watching American films, it is extremely informative not only in terms of their public life, but also social. Imagine, their medicine is even more "optimized" than ours, and in films this is subjected to harsh criticism. So "House Doctor" or "Ambulance" is an outdated presentation of material. The goal is to optimize the population of the planet - any, and everything American as a photocopy is immediately picked up and embodied here.
          2. Kushka
            Kushka 13 December 2020 01: 19
            +5
            After the death of his father, he found in the family archive
            information about a relative, junior officer,
            disabled PMV (explosion of a projectile under a war horse
            in the battles near Warsaw), whose sisters of mercy
            KK was taken to the USA, Whiteville, Virginia for treatment.
            There he lived for a long time and was buried. When you have enough spirit
            I go to the sites of this town (8 thousand inhabitants), "I wander"
            through its streets. In this case, it is advisable to tie the jaw.
            Photo reports about all kinds of festivals, carnivals and others
            city ​​events and all costumed! Local sites
            schools are fireworks of student and school events!
            When you study the site of the city hall, you think that this is about the state, how
            minimum - there are gigantic programs - water supply reconstruction,
            recreational activities and everything with numbers, diagrams.
            The streets are clean, houses on plots without any fences are on the porch
            toys, dolls ..
            And complete trash - "went" to the cemetery "(there are two of them), found him
            the grave - and pinched myself - the stone on the grave looks exactly like this
            the same as 50 years ago (I have a photo on the 2nd day of the funeral) and
            perfectly trimmed grass around! By the way, on the site of the cemetery
            there is an opportunity to "lay" a flower and even a bouquet on the grave.
            At the same time, there are a little more than a dozen people in the city hall, everything on the site is about
            it is written about them, even about the IT specialist. Geography - wilderness,
            where they work is not clear, but they live interestingly, with fiction.
        3. Catfish
          Catfish 12 December 2020 21: 05
          +2
          Especially disaster films.


          Hello dear earthlings. smile
          1. depressant
            depressant 12 December 2020 21: 47
            +1
            What kind of movie is this? ))) A parody?
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 12 December 2020 22: 03
              +3
              I just typed on the topic in a search engine, and immediately liked the face. No movie, people have fun drawing pictures. smile
              Or such a "sunny" picture, I can't even believe that the whole world ordered to live long.

              Lyuda, have you tried to play "Stalker", "Metro", or "Fallout"? In spirit, they are quite consistent with those films that you love to watch.
              From this series of films I really liked "The Book of Eli" and "I am a Legend", maybe there are better ones, but I'm not a movie fan and I rarely watch movies.
              1. depressant
                depressant 12 December 2020 22: 27
                +2
                I watched both films. "I am a legend" did not like - Will Smith took upon himself an unbearable burden of significance, which only in his fevered nationalist imagination has a place to be))) It's like deriving his own lineage from the Sumerians. And this picture is clearly based on social fiction. I would say the Stalker series, but the animals in the foreground are not mutants. This is not "Kremlin 2222", something else.
                I have not played computer games for a long time. Survived this period)))
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 12 December 2020 22: 42
                  +2
                  In "Legend" I liked the shooting of the abandoned city, I just wanted to wander the streets, and the social aspects with Will Smith are of little interest to me.
                  What is Kremlin 2222? I haven't even heard of it.
                  1. depressant
                    depressant 12 December 2020 23: 14
                    +2
                    "Kremlin 2222" is part of the "Stalker" series, which in turn consists of several hundred books created by contemporary writers. The premise for the creation of the Stalker series was the Strugatskys' Roadside Picnic. Most of the books are set on the territory of the Exclusion Zone around Pripyat. The zone allegedly survived another explosion of unexplained physical nature, and now it is a kingdom of mutated killer animals, artifacts with amazing properties, deadly traps, as well as bandit and paramilitary groups hunting for stalker-gatherers of artifacts, and huckster bartenders who under the pretext of trade in alcohol and simple food in a bar for next to nothing, they buy artifacts from stalkers in order to transport them across the cordon for resale for wild money. That is, a complete social cut of society.
                    In an allegorical form, each of the writers represents the Zone as an image of what is happening in our country and expresses his attitude to this. Such is the critical realism)))
                    At least I'm interested in reading. There is a lot of sadness, romance, self-reflection of the heroes. The zone appears as a place where the price becomes clear to everyone very quickly.
                    1. Catfish
                      Catfish 12 December 2020 23: 54
                      +2
                      Thank you, Lyudmila smile But I know all this, "Picnic" was swallowed in his youth, later there was "Stalker" by Tarkovsky, even later "Shadow of Chernobyl", the next two games and an uncountable number of mods. So, with the Zone I'm on "you".
                      But the books from this series did not "go" for me, I read about a dozen and gave up this lesson. It was just boring to read, there was no "divine spark", or something, but somehow I don't want to waste time on mediocre graphomaniacs. But this is my personal opinion and I do not impose it on anyone. drinks
                      1. Phil77
                        Phil77 13 December 2020 08: 55
                        +1
                        Quote: Sea Cat
                        Thank you, Lyudmila smile But I know all this, "Picnic" was swallowed in his youth, later there was "Stalker" by Tarkovsky, even later "Shadow of Chernobyl", the next two games and an uncountable number of mods. So, with the Zone I'm on "you".
                        But the books from this series did not "go" for me, I read about a dozen and gave up this lesson. It was just boring to read, there was no "divine spark", or something, but somehow I don't want to waste time on mediocre graphomaniacs. But this is my personal opinion and I do not impose it on anyone. drinks

                        Greetings Konstantin!
                        But Tarkovsky and I somehow do not work out. For me he is too ... gloomy, pessimistic.
                      2. Catfish
                        Catfish 13 December 2020 08: 59
                        +2
                        Hi, Seryozha. smile
                        There and in addition to "psychology" cool camera work, I, for example, felt the Zone literally with liver, and people ran away from the auditorium, by the end of the session barely a fourth part remained. What can you do, who needs what - "... some watermelon, and some pig cartilage." (C) request
                  2. Phil77
                    Phil77 13 December 2020 08: 51
                    +2
                    Quote: depressant
                    The zone appears as a place

                    Lyudmila Yakovlevna, good morning!
                    And from this series, which book do you like the most? Did you mention the Sniper in any way?
                    1. depressant
                      depressant 13 December 2020 09: 59
                      +2
                      Good morning, Seryozha!)))
                      The books about the man named Sniper must be read in order. For they are like a multivolume book about one hero. For example, "War and Peace" consists of 4 volumes and an epilogue, and if you start reading it, say, from the third, you will not get a true idea of ​​the work. I like those moments in the "Sniper Saga", or rather, they fascinate me, which embody the author's idea of ​​death as the only criterion of truth. This is an eternal battle in an abandoned hangar, and an eternal bonfire with good-natured, affable stalkers sitting around him, and the posthumous patronage of a friend who helps the Sniper in a difficult situation, and the image of Death itself, whose brother the Sniper becomes and feels her presence when someone dies of his friends, or trying to die himself, and the Sniper's eternal luck as a reward of fate for the fact that he does not know how to pass by the injustice that is happening due to his destiny as a Sword-bearer, which he never changes ... These and similar moments are scattered throughout the books " Sagas ". The author, Dmitry Sillov, is a very strong, romantic mystic. His descriptions of these moments are absolutely visible and mesmerizing. These books are about how the consciousness of even a very strong spirit and staunch person is skillfully and subtly manipulated by evil forces, and how difficult it is to resist. At the same time, the "Saga of the Sniper" is not a fantasy at all, the Author only slightly camouflaged our life in the image of the Zone, everything looks extremely realistic, as if the colors were only exaggerated.
                      Among other things, there is a lot of humor in the "Saga", the hero is ironic)))
              2. Phil77
                Phil77 13 December 2020 08: 48
                +3
                Quote: depressant
                "I'm a legend"

                Good morning friends!
                I must say right away that I like the film. And Smith, in my opinion, played well, and the shooting is good, and the plot is not bad. But ... most of all in this film I liked Sam the dog. And I feel sorry for her, well, just, very, very much!

                And I also read Matisson's novel, on which the film was made. Impression? Well ... not really. hi
                1. Ruslan67
                  Ruslan67 14 December 2020 03: 17
                  -1
                  Quote: Phil77
                  I must say right away that I like the film.

                  Quote: Phil77
                  And I also read Matisson's novel, on which the film was made.

                  See original 1964 The Last Man on Earth Under his impression, Romero filmed Night of the Living Dead drinks
                  1. Mordvin 3
                    Mordvin 3 14 December 2020 03: 40
                    +1
                    Quote: Ruslan67
                    Night of the Living Dead

                    And I also read this crap. drinks
                    1. Ruslan67
                      Ruslan67 14 December 2020 04: 34
                      +1
                      Quote: Mordvin 3
                      crap also read.

                      Not a chance But the film is one of my favorites request
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 12 December 2020 17: 44
    +7
    I wish you all good health. It has always been expensive, and now it is many times more expensive.
    I am glad that Vyacheslav Olegovich returned to working form, otherwise it was dreary ..
    That's when the moderators - editors will stop putting Valery and Vyacheslav Olegovich together and in general there will be grace!
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 12 December 2020 18: 34
    +4
    Quote: Undecim
    The trouble with many commentators is that they overly trust some interpreters of knowledge ...
    In order to criticize the interpreters of knowledge in some area of ​​knowledge, one must, at least, have this knowledge not less, but preferably more.

    Viktor Nikolaevich, you encroached on "know-it-alls" or, as you say, "hamsters". Unfortunately, we have many who think that they know everything or almost everything.
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 12 December 2020 18: 54
    +3
    Vyacheslav Olegovich, and colleague Tlaikol will not file a lawsuit: "for theft of intellectual property." Joke
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 12 December 2020 20: 06
      +6
      Will not give. There was a mutual agreement. I can testify in court.
      1. Astra wild2
        Astra wild2 12 December 2020 20: 36
        +4
        I take your word for it. You are a great writer, but you have a bad habit of provoking a flurry of emotions.
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 12 December 2020 20: 51
          +3
          You are a wonderful author,
          I???? You flatter me, My Beautiful Stranger, and confuse me with Shpakovsky ...
          1. Astra wild2
            Astra wild2 12 December 2020 21: 00
            +3
            I beg your pardon, the comment was really addressed to Vyacheslav Olegovich, but how did it happen that I mixed it up ????
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 12 December 2020 21: 09
              +3
              It happens. Dont be upset.
              1. depressant
                depressant 12 December 2020 22: 01
                +6
                Okay, so that no one gets upset, I'll tell you an old, old joke (just don't kick with your feet!)
                In the cafe. Tea was served. An American, seeing a fly in it, threw tea in the waiter's face, the French politely asked for a replacement, the Russian pulled out his fly and drank the tea, the Chinese ate the fly, drank tea, the Jew offered the Chinese to buy a fly from him.
  • vladcub
    vladcub 12 December 2020 19: 01
    +4
    Q. Oh, thanks for the interesting material. Something I knew, but as they say at the top, and you revealed deeper.
    I heard about "land races", but mostly from x / f, what was the name of the film?
    1. kalibr
      12 December 2020 19: 06
      +3
      "Far, far away" ... or "Far country".
      1. vladcub
        vladcub 12 December 2020 19: 59
        +2
        I don't know, maybe, maybe another?
        1. depressant
          depressant 12 December 2020 21: 01
          +1
          By the way!
          I remember watching a movie about a train robbery in those distant times, American, of course. And I thought: where did so many Chinese come from then? Show your current tolerance? It doesn't matter how the black man is the English lord. It turned out that the whites did not want to build a road in the mountains - were they afraid of landslides? And the Chinese agreed to everything.
          1. kalibr
            12 December 2020 21: 35
            +2
            Quote: depressant
            It turned out that the whites did not want to build a road in the mountains - were they afraid of landslides?

            It was just very hard there, hot and snakes. And the Chinese ate them! Always with meat! How did the Chinatowns in Frisco come about? Like this!
            1. depressant
              depressant 12 December 2020 21: 51
              +2
              This is how it is ... And I thought that because of the sudden addiction of Americans to Chinese food)))
              Well, they eat the same pizza as their own, say ...
  • bubalik
    bubalik 12 December 2020 22: 18
    +2
    It was then that for the first time in the United States, Chinese were brought in in large quantities, who agreed to work for only $ 1 a day.

    ,,, a series of civil wars, opium wars, foreign intervention, religious fanatics, repression, poverty, hunger, in general, this situation gives a good incentive to migrate - anywhere. And the United States at that time was still perceived as a new land of hope, freedom, the rule of law, far from the tyranny of monarchies. The Chinese who were better off could pay for the ticket themselves or borrow from their relatives, but many had no money at all. Then enterprising Americans came up with credit tickets. This meant that the agency covered the minimum travel expenses, but this money had to be worked out upon arrival. The shipping companies brought in not just immigrants, but debtors, and the Central Pacific Railroad recruited crews under labor contracts for 5 years. For the construction of the Transcontinental Railroad through the mountains and deserts of the Sierra Nevada and Nevada.
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 12 December 2020 23: 11
      +5
      ... but this money must be worked out upon arrival

      Quite a reasonable approach: If you want a better life, work for it.
      1. depressant
        depressant 13 December 2020 07: 55
        +2
        Wow - credit tickets! Here and such details you involuntarily recognize. It seems that in some kind of "Die Hard" - already a typical situation 20-30 years ago, a Chinese man, an American citizen, brings Chinese illegal immigrants into the United States. Now he is a holder of "credit notes". It is unlikely that the United States needs the Chinese in 2020. Nobody needed.
        And the Chinese make films about how Vietnamese are brought to them in containers for goods.
  • Phil77
    Phil77 13 December 2020 09: 06
    +3
    Quote: Sea Cat
    What can you do, who needs what - "... some watermelon, and some pig cartilage." (C)

    No, because it's too gloomy, too gloomy shown.
    The Strugatskys do not feel such hopelessness in the story.
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 13 December 2020 09: 54
      +3
      Sergei, the film should not be taken as an illustration of the Strugatskys' book, this is a completely independent work, although the brothers were the authors of the script.
      1. depressant
        depressant 13 December 2020 12: 59
        +2
        I watched Tarkovsky's films in this order:
        Mirror
        Andrei Rublev
        Stalker
        Solaris
        Nostalgia
        I don't remember what the Mirror is about, but I was shocked by the set of artistic means, analyzed the author's messages for a long time, grew above herself)))
        Andrei Rublev shocked by the cruelty of the era, caused an attempt to associate it with the then, it did not work.
        The stalker caused deep rejection due to, if I am not mistaken, the intellectual reflective Kaidanovsky. Yes, Shewhart reflected, but not like that, closer to an ordinary, normal person, busy developing his own spiritual values. And here - closer to the dissident intelligentsia, supposedly very special, but none of those around them grows to understand its reflections.
        Solaris aroused indignation - Lem's painting, these huge rolling shafts, the changeable eternity of what is happening and the originality of the hero - everything is sideways, instead of them - Moscow intellectuals, tossing with foolishness. In American Solaris, there are family values ​​in general, which caused laughter.
        Nostalgia is to bring a candle of intellectual ideas that what is good for a dissident is good.
        And made an attempt to watch "Ugly Swans". I could not! Banev is one of his favorite heroes, a crudely tailored person, ironic to the limit, not d'or 'how to drink, eat, wave fists on occasion and in between - to sort out the oddities that are happening. And here - a fine-looking intellectual with a vast muzzle, but at the same time speaking in the voice of a dying bird ...
        Well, it seems that she has applied everyone)))
        There is also "It is difficult to be God", but judging by the reviews, Herman should not have sculpted a cinematic frame from a really beautiful book.
        1. Phil77
          Phil77 13 December 2020 15: 49
          +3
          Quote: depressant
          Well, it seems that she has applied everyone)))

          Damn it, Lyudmila Yakovlevna! But how beautiful you write, eh? After all, I gave you a promise not to praise. But ..... well, I can’t help myself! Sorry, but. I just admire. love
          1. depressant
            depressant 13 December 2020 16: 32
            +2
            Se-ry-Ms !!!
            I do not accept kissing hands. Although sometimes I had to endure putting a kiss on my hand in reality. Then I walked away from stress for a long time, not knowing where to put that hand, it began to interfere with me)))
            I’m not an aristocrat, not a coquette. I am not very inclined to divide colleagues according to gender.
            1. Phil77
              Phil77 13 December 2020 17: 11
              +3
              Quote: depressant
              not an aristocrat, not a coquette.

              It's your own fault. You get very nice comments. wink
        2. Catfish
          Catfish 14 December 2020 01: 01
          +2
          Good night, Lyudmila. smile
          I didn't see "Ugly Swans" and "Nostalgia", I just didn't look, because I turned off the "Mirror" after about half an hour, there was not enough for more.
          Herman's "It's hard to be God," I'm sorry, just vomit, some kind of moral masturbation in the backyard of the cesspool. But he had excellent films, I highly rate "Check on the roads", for example.
          As for "Solaris" with "Stalkerm", then, in my opinion, these films are so multifaceted that everyone can find any "dish to taste" there, although most do not find anything, because they are not looking for it, they do not need it ... I don't want to go into details now, so as not to offend anyone, but not everything is as simple as many would like to imagine.
      2. Phil77
        Phil77 13 December 2020 15: 52
        +3
        Quote: Sea Cat
        perceive a film

        I admit the thought that this is simply not MY director. Well, I don’t like HIS cinema! I don’t like picking inside a person, I don’t like hopelessness, I don’t like the DARK! I don’t like doubts that are an end in themselves.
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 14 December 2020 00: 30
          +2
          Why not yours? For example, I barely watched Erkalo halfway through, and I simply didn’t watch “Nostalgia”, but I am still watching “Rublev”, “Solaris” and “Stalker” with great pleasure. There is something to see, in terms of camera work and acting, and there is something to think about, about the meaning of life, for example. wink