Military Review

Who benefits from the civil war in Russia

334

D. Belyukin. First wave emigrants. “White Russia. Exodus".


Unlearned lessons of the past threaten a lot of blood in the future. The conditional moment of the end of the Civil War in Russia is November 1920. The exodus of Wrangel's army from the Crimea to Constantinople. However, 100 years have passed, several generations have changed, and the cold civil war is rekindled by some.

New civil


В stories bloody civil wars (happened and more than once) took place in almost all leading countries of the world. Among them are Germany, England, France, USA, Vietnam and China. However, usually, after a generation (20-30 years), all the "dots above and" were put. And after another generation, such a war became a long history. Even then, it was usually only of interest to historians. The heroes (or antiheroes) of the revolution were already perceived as mere figures in the history of the country. For example, in France in the first half of the XNUMXth century in the military navy there were battleships with the names "Danton", "Voltaire", "Mirabeau", "Republic", which reminded of the Great French Revolution. And also "Henri IV", "Charlemagne" ("Charlemagne"), "Saint-Louis" and "Richelieu".

Russia followed this path in Soviet times. In the 1920s – 1930s, many civil war heroes were still alive, even though the whole country went through a terrible catastrophe. By the 1960s, the romanticization of that era began. The first Bolsheviks lost their severity and harshness and turned into people who went through fire and water. At the same time, the poeticization of the White Guards was also observed. By the 1980s, there were no more "whites" and "reds" in Soviet society. Everyone knew something about the Civil War. but only from the school or university history course, and in detail - only specialists. The Romanovs and the Civil War were practically forgotten. Just as in the 2000s, the Great Patriotic War did not cause any sacred awe among the youth. And the eternal flame has become for the youth just one of the places to hang out.

During "perestroika" almost nobody remembered Nicholas II, Denikin, Kolchak or Wrangel. The people had enough other, more important problems. And somehow, quietly, neo-White Guards and monarchists began to appear again. True (as in France, where there are supporters of Napoleon, the House of Orleans, or the Bourbons), such oppositionists in new Russia receive only no more than 1-3% of voters' support.

On the other hand, in the 1990s and especially in the 2000s, when there were almost no strong front-line soldiers left, supporters of the ataman Krasnov and Vlasov suddenly began to appear in the Russian Federation. (As in Ukraine - supporters of Shukhevych and Bandera, and in the Baltic states - local SS men). Even monuments and memorial signs began to appear in honor of Denikin, Kolchak, Wrangel and Mannerheim (Hitler's ally), etc. In the Orenburg region, for example, a monument was erected (to the winner of Chapaev) to Colonel Sladkov.

White project


As a result, there is now again an attempt to ideologically split Russian society again into “whites” and “reds”. True, as mentioned above, few support the "white" ideology today. Still, the bulk of the population of Russia is the descendants of the workers 'and peasants' majority. But there is a split, and it is specially cultivated and cherished. And what's interesting is that modern Russian nationalists and monarchists again fall into the trap of a century ago.

Who made the revolution, destroyed the Russian autocracy, the empire and the army? Destroyed "old Russia"? Created and supported by the myth that the alleged Bolsheviks. Lenin with the money of the Second Reich. In reality, the Russian Empire collapsed under the weight of many problems that began to accumulate since the time of the first Romanovs and the church schism that broke the Russian people to pieces. Strong kings (like Alexander III) held back the decay as best they could. Nicholas II was unable to keep the situation in the conditions of a systemic crisis (to carry out radical reforms, which were eventually carried out by the Bolsheviks). The Russian elite understood the need for radical transformations. But the Russian elite, who spoke French, German and English better than their native language, since the time of Peter the Great looked obsequiously at Europe. These were predominantly Westernizers in a cultural sense.

This is how the "white" project was born (February). The entire elite of Russia opposed Nicholas II: the grand dukes and aristocrats, church hierarchs, the highest generals and officials, State Duma deputies, leaders of political parties and public associations, bankers and industrialists. They wanted a complete Westernization of Russia in the image of England or France. They killed “old Russia”. The Civil War began immediately. Long before October. In their attempt to create a "new Russia", following the example of "sweet and enlightened" Europe, the Februaryists opened Pandora's box. The autocracy, the army, the bureaucracy and the police kept the chaos in check. And the Februaryists (not without the support of England, France and the USA) destroyed the old braces, but could not offer new ones in return. European methods did not work in Russia as they did in the West. Westerners do not realize that Russia-Russia is a different, special civilization, and that it has its own path.

There was a state and civilizational catastrophe. The Russian Troubles began. All the terrible contradictions that had accumulated in the Russian Empire burst out. The "deep people" rose up against the European gentlemen. Within a month after the abdication of the tsar, the Baltic sailors killed more officers than they died during the entire world war.

Kronstadt, the main base of the Baltic Fleet, essentially became an independent republic, ruled by anarchists. After the February Revolution, a dual power emerged - the Provisional Government and the Petrograd Soviet.

At the same time, the Petrosovet was not initially created by the Bolsheviks or the masses. Both of these bodies were created by the Februaryist revolutionaries, moderate and radical groups. The Bolsheviks at that time were the weakest parties in Russia, inferior in number, as well as in organizational and material capabilities, literally in everything - the Cadets, Octobrists, Mensheviks, Socialist-Revolutionaries, anarchists and nationalists.

Thus, the nationalists on the outskirts of the empire became the new center of power. Already under the Provisional Government, the "parade of sovereignties" began. Finland, Ukraine, Cossack regions received autonomy. By order of Kerensky, the Czechoslovak, Polish and Ukrainian corps were formed. Muslim corps and regiments are also being created. By the time the Bolsheviks took power, nationalists and separatists had already put 1,5-2 million fighters under arms. And they will actively fight.

The peasants began their war in February – March 1917. The Great Peasant War began, which claimed millions of lives (hostilities, hunger, cold, disease). Simultaneously (with the collapse of the old system of law and order and the police), a criminal revolution began. During the Time of Troubles, bandits created entire armies.

who benefits


The collapse of Russia was beneficial to the West - England, France and the United States. They implemented their strategic plans in relation to Russia and thoroughly plundered our country during the Time of Troubles.

For example, England at the beginning of the First World War planned to dismember the Russian Empire, to create a "cordon sanitaire" from the western Russian regions (from the limitrophe countries from the Baltic to the Black Sea). The British also succeeded during the Russian Troubles. Finland, the Baltic States and Poland were separated from Russia (to which they gave up Western Belarus and Western Ukraine). From the Russian north, the British exported furs, timber and minerals, from the Caucasus - oil. Plus value, gold.

That is why the West did its best to foment the Civil War in Russia. The Entente supported the White movement and nationalists of all stripes, including the Basmachis (the forerunners of modern jihadists) in Central Asia. At the same time, the West periodically interfered with the White Army so that it would not win the war. The existence of a "united and indivisible Russia" was not in the interests of either England or the United States.

And the White Army did not defend the interests of the state and the people at all, but the interests of Western and Russian capital. Western and Russian capitalists and the bourgeoisie were unwilling to give up their factories, steamers and newspapers. Contracted to fight "cannon fodder" - part of the officers, cadets, students, White Cossacks.

The factory owners, landowners, bankers and politicians themselves sat in Berlin, Paris or Constantinople. Others waited for the outcome of the war in Kiev, Odessa or Sevastopol. Hence the severe shortage of manpower in the White Army. The Red Army had in 1919 - 3 million bayonets and sabers, in 1920 - more than 5 million. Nationalists and interventionists at the same time fielded 2-3 million people. And in all the white armies at the same time there were never more than 300 thousand people.

There was no truth for White. Hence the active resistance (red partisans, peasant rebels) or the indifference of the masses to them. And the complete victory of the Bolsheviks, who began in words to exploit the basic elements of the Russian civilization matrix - social justice, getting rid of social parasites, solidarity (conciliarity) and brotherhood, the ethics of honest labor.

Thus, the victory of the new Februaryist revolutionaries in 1991-1993. was not a restoration of "old Russia". It was again the victory of the Westernizers, who tried to make Russia a part of the West (Europe). The output would be a raw material, cultural appendage, in which our people would not have any future there. With the domination of the financial and comprador oligarchy, with the media of the pro-Western liberal intelligentsia, which denies both the "damned scoop" and "colonial tsarism" ...

And now the neo-Westerners are again cutting off the Russian people from both the Russian tradition in general (both “white” (pre-Soviet) and “red” (Soviet)). Russian nationalists and monarchists are being sharpened again to protect the interests of big business.

The current split of Russians into new “whites” and “reds” is again beneficial today only to our western and eastern “partners” (who dream of dismembering and robbing Russia again). Moreover, perhaps, it plays into the hands of financial capital, which grows fat on the robbery of the people's wealth. And, of course, this is water for the new nationalist separatists who will be ready to tear the Russian Federation apart, just like 100 years ago.
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  1. yuliatreb
    yuliatreb 9 December 2020 04: 36
    +24
    The article clearly smells of something, for whom you are chewing it, there is no need to bring the people to the extreme, and then there will not be those who can take advantage of their plight.
    1. Aerodrome
      Aerodrome 9 December 2020 04: 39
      +19
      Quote: yuliatreb
      there is no need to drive the people to the extreme and then there will be no revolutions.

      exactly! here is the answer to the question of the article.
      1. yuliatreb
        yuliatreb 9 December 2020 04: 41
        +1
        I corrected a little, but the essence remains the same
        1. Iskazi
          Iskazi 9 December 2020 05: 07
          +1
          not to drive people to the extreme ...? This is impossible, because the goal of any Power is to bring the people to the extreme, faster, slower - a matter of conditions and goals. And the Power for this will be nothing, Power is absolutely independent of the "people", sad of course, but something like that.
          1. apro
            apro 9 December 2020 05: 17
            +1
            Quote: Iskazi
            because the goal of any Power is to bring the people to the extreme,

            The goal of any government is to reflect the interests of the leading core of the population of a given territory. And for some reason this core is not in an extreme position ..
            1. Nazar
              Nazar 9 December 2020 05: 39
              +25
              apro - Colleague, the government really acts in the interests of those who created this government.
              Moreover, the author himself gives the answer, what is happening in our country - a quote: "The output would be a raw material, cultural appendage in which our people would not have any future there. With the dominance of the financial and comprador oligarchy, with the media of the pro-Western liberal intelligentsia ... ". only the particle "would" be removed from the quote, and so everything is true the domination of the "financial and comprador oligarchy" - and these people will not give up power without a fight, so we like it or not, but there are only two options - another revolution with all the accompanying troubles, or complete degradation of the country and in the foreseeable future hi .
              1. Pavel Vladimirov
                Pavel Vladimirov 9 December 2020 14: 07
                -4
                Will they not give it up? And who serves for the most part in the army, the National Guard? Ordinary people who understand everything
                1. Stas157
                  Stas157 9 December 2020 15: 34
                  +5
                  Civil War is rekindled by someone.

                  The answer to this question is not such a mystery!

                  The entire policy of the authorities leads the population of Russia to the fact that, as then (in 1917), the people had nothing to lose except their chains.
                  1. Svarog
                    Svarog 9 December 2020 15: 41
                    +6
                    Quote: Stas157
                    the people have nothing to lose but their chains.

                    So they will also buy .. mortgage loans .. everything can be forgotten ..
                    1. Stas157
                      Stas157 9 December 2020 16: 38
                      +5
                      You don't have to be seven spans to understand who is the problem! Those who are dissatisfied or those who have created this problem - extreme social inequality and an abnormal income gap.
                2. day100
                  day100 9 December 2020 22: 40
                  +3
                  And who served in the White Army? Is it only the rabid officers and the sons of the rich?
            2. New Year day
              New Year day 9 December 2020 08: 50
              +13
              Quote: apro
              The goal of any government is to reflect the interests of the leading core of the population of a given territory

              We have a different goal, judging by the stratification of property and the elimination of social guarantees for the population. The state is judged by the quality of life of children and the elderly
        2. Far B
          Far B 9 December 2020 05: 18
          +17
          I corrected a little, but the essence remains the same
          The new version will be more precise, because it’s not just about the revolution (they’re almost bloodless), but about the civil war. But in fact, in Russia, the Civil War has been going on for thirty years already, as evidenced by the fierce demographic losses. It seems that power is gaining a convincing loss over its people. But because the people are disorganized (disorganized) and duped. Paradox: a hundred years ago White lost for the very same reason. But then there was a "hot" Civil, and it lasted much less than 30 years. We can only hope that our fellow citizens will nevertheless throw off the blinders from their eyes and understand where the country is heading. Organize and will be able to put presumptuous bloodsuckers in the place they owe. And I really want it to happen in our lifetime.
          1. kalibr
            kalibr 9 December 2020 07: 30
            -22%
            Quote: Dalny V
            And I really want it to happen in our lifetime.

            You want blood, right? And if yours will pour?
            1. Far B
              Far B 9 December 2020 08: 01
              +24
              First, where have you read about my blood? I wrote about the organization of the people. Read what is written, Mr. Shpakovsky, not what you want to read. And yes - I do not welcome the Civil War. But it is not the people who bring it to her - this simple fact never reaches you?
              And secondly, with regard to blood ... The population of Russia has been decreasing for 30 long years, and there is no end in sight. Isn't this blood shedding? Moreover, both literally and figuratively. If mine spills? Why not, if for a just cause?
              PS Right now - yes, I wrote about blood. With your submission.
              1. kalibr
                kalibr 9 December 2020 08: 28
                -20%
                Quote: Dalny V
                If mine spills? Why not, if for a just cause?

                Michael! And what if it happens so: in your city in a state of anarchy (and it always happens at such moments) there will be a "death squad", by analogy with Colombia. They will catch such "revolutionaries" and ... they will sew up their mouths with wire, hang them naked by the hands in the square and into the anal boiler. Live broadcast on TV: "Parents, bring the children, let them see what happens to those who rebel with the money of the State Department!"
                Turn on through a rheostat. And they ask: "Who wants to avoid ...? But he will have to continue ..." Right there, yes ... Right there. One two. They are released and they ... continue! People twitched ... they are asked again ... There are already more people willing. As a result, the most stubborn is executed, and the rest are sent home. The lesson it will give is such that you will forget to write about blood and even think from the word in general. And every trip to the toilet will remind you that it is better to "sit still". Do you think this can not be? Maybe something else ...
                1. Far B
                  Far B 9 December 2020 08: 50
                  +19
                  Vyacheslav! As if, you are already an adult, with a certain baggage of experience and knowledge. But simple things do not reach you - blood is shed en masse (both your own and someone else's) most often not because there is an acute desire to do it. And because it is simply impossible in another way. Or, in your opinion, our soldiers in WWII were really eager to die heroically? No, they had a completely different desire - to get rid of the enemy as soon as possible. You will say that these are not comparable quantities. And I will say - quite. Human and material losses then and now - once. And the plus to this is the actual loss of sovereignty, the semi-colonial status of the country (now).
                  And scaring death squads is a rotten thing. Are you sure that these "horsemen of the apocalypse" themselves will not be suspended by the nostrils? In the event that the people are really organized? True, you and others like you will try to prevent such an organization of the people: after all, you yourself have settled well in life, there is enough for bread and caviar and abroad. And the rest - let them die out, why are they to you?
                  1. kalibr
                    kalibr 9 December 2020 09: 14
                    -17%
                    Quote: Dalny V
                    if people really organize

                    The most important thing is IF. And if only there were mushrooms growing in the company! Still, think about the boiler ...
                    Quote: Dalny V
                    And the rest - let them die out, why are they to you?

                    Well, why so? And who will scoop out cows, build houses, clean pipes in fireplaces, fish for caviar. Making rockets ... Here you have not thought, but it would be necessary
                    1. Far B
                      Far B 9 December 2020 09: 24
                      +20
                      Most importantly IF
                      And this was written to me by a person who in a post previously asked a question:
                      And what if will be like this:
                      Yes, you, my friend, comedian laughing
                      Well, why so? And who will scoop out cows, build houses, clean pipes in fireplaces, fish for caviar. Making rockets ... Here you have not thought, but it would be necessary
                      Well, that’s all of you, neither add nor subtract. Only it is not very clear from what fright you are translating arrows at me? Does the old self-cancer trick in action? A little weak for a propagandist with 45 years of experience. Disappointed.
                      1. kalibr
                        kalibr 9 December 2020 10: 59
                        -17%
                        Quote: Dalny V
                        Disappointed.

                        Don't forget the main thing about the boiler and everything will be fine!
                      2. Alexander Suvorov
                        Alexander Suvorov 9 December 2020 14: 33
                        +39
                        kalibr (Vyacheslav)
                        Don't forget the main thing about the boiler and everything will be fine!
                        So, as a result, you will find a boiler with a soldering iron, but what is there, you can use a blowtorch from the whole proletarian soul. Have you forgotten about steamers with your lousy intelligentsia? It can be repeated for those who are especially forgetful ... The patience of the people is not unlimited, but as you know the Russian revolt is senseless and merciless. And if anyone is the first to suffer, then it is such singers as you, nightingale, Kiselyov and the like. Only something tells me that Nightingale and Kiselev will have time to grease the skis, but pawns like you are far from the fact that they will get on the coveted plane or ship. There, places have been booked for a long time and something tells me that no matter how you want (and you seem to really want to), but there is no place for you there. "Caliber" is not the same, sorry for the pun. laughing
                      3. Akuzenka
                        Akuzenka 9 December 2020 15: 18
                        +10
                        Only something tells me that Nightingale and Kiselev will have time to grease the skis, but pawns like you are far from the fact that they will get on the coveted plane or ship.
                        They won't be taken over the hill. They will immediately try to repaint. After all, Solovyov did it perfectly: today he is an ardent liberal and vilifies the power of Putin, tomorrow, an ardent patriot, and sings to Putin hosanna !. They have a lot of experience. But I hope they won't succeed. And when they warn against shedding blood, they mean only their own blood, they don't give a damn about us.
                      4. mat-vey
                        mat-vey 9 December 2020 17: 15
                        +2
                        Quote: AKuzenka
                        They will immediately try to repaint.

                        Well, in the west, the special services are not fools - why do they need people with such a tarnished reputation? They will find someone fresher and not so frankly exposed.
                  2. Akuzenka
                    Akuzenka 9 December 2020 15: 13
                    +19
                    Yes, you, Mr. Shpakovsky, are an ordinary Gauleiter, even if in "your" country. Well, since you are not disguising yourself, then all your articles on the protection and prevention of civil war have become clear.
                  3. kalibr
                    kalibr 9 December 2020 15: 23
                    -16%
                    Somehow I will introduce you to a photocopier of paper: "Everything that the bearer of these powers has done was done by my order and for the good of the state!"
                  4. Aviator_
                    Aviator_ 9 December 2020 16: 01
                    +11
                    photocopier of paper: "Everything that the bearer of these powers has done was done by my order and for the good of the state!"

                    Most importantly, do not forget to present your membership card.
                  5. Akuzenka
                    Akuzenka 9 December 2020 17: 41
                    +8
                    And let him take off the cross. You don't even need to wear panties, Mr. Gauleiter Shpakovsky.
                  6. zenion
                    zenion 9 December 2020 19: 39
                    +9
                    And the caliber is not the same system. He's so brave while hiding behind the caliber. Then those emerge who are loyal to any government. He hints that he will be one of the death squads, only that he would not be killed, or forgiven.
                2. Reptiloid
                  Reptiloid 10 December 2020 12: 31
                  +2
                  Quote: Aviator_
                  photocopier of paper: "Everything that the bearer of these powers has done was done by my order and for the good of the state!"

                  Most importantly, do not forget to present your membership card.
                  bully bully lol I greet you, Sergey! Do not forget, do not hesitate. Probably, there is a story about the dissertation every day. And about the kin. All while blaming the USSR. And in the new post-Soviet country, somehow kin didn’t return.
                3. Aviator_
                  Aviator_ 10 December 2020 13: 29
                  +3
                  Hi Dmitry! Yes, I'm tired of commenting on this, it's all the same to argue with Olgovich. Although the caliber is sometimes more interesting in its statements than this Romanian.
                4. Reptiloid
                  Reptiloid 10 December 2020 15: 11
                  +1
                  laughing tired? But you have to, you have to. ....
                  In my opinion, is the situation changing somehow? What are the words more often about the USSR? After all, how many years has the USSR been exposed, and the interest is greater
        3. sniperino
          sniperino 10 December 2020 18: 44
          -5
          Quote: AKuzenka
          all your articles on the protection and prevention of civil war are clear.
          Your comments aimed at loosening and stirring up are also understandable. All the instigators, even the Civil War, even the war between Novgorod and Suzdal, are to the northeast, let them build infrastructure for the Northern Sea Route there, they will cool off a little.
  2. Serg65
    Serg65 9 December 2020 12: 23
    -7
    Quote: kalibr
    Here you have not thought, but it would be necessary

    laughing Vyacheslav, I did not expect such a subtle and sophisticated trolling from you laughing good
  3. mat-vey
    mat-vey 9 December 2020 17: 13
    +8
    Quote: kalibr
    And who will scoop out cows, build houses, clean pipes in fireplaces, fish for caviar. Making rockets ..

    Well, who? Migrants? You think that this is not for you .... because there are civil wars.
  • Andrey Krasnoyarsky
    Andrey Krasnoyarsky 10 December 2020 14: 14
    -6
    Mikhail, about the decline of the people of Russia for 30 years - these are your fantasies. 30 years ago it was 1990. Then the population was 147 people. In 665 - 081 people. It's less, but not disastrous. By the way, from 2029 to 146. the population was growing, not decreasing. So before you go into hysterics and shout "guard, everything is gone !!!", it would be good to look at the specific facts. Yes, we have no paradise and Russia is not among the most prosperous countries in the world, but the revolutionary situation is only in the minds of the all-fledged people, but not in reality.
  • Looking for
    Looking for 9 December 2020 16: 27
    +8
    Well, that we will die once. But we will deal with someone.
  • mat-vey
    mat-vey 9 December 2020 17: 11
    +4
    Quote: kalibr
    And if yours will pour?

    Well, yeah, it's just oozing now.
  • Xnumx vis
    Xnumx vis 9 December 2020 23: 34
    -5
    Quote: kalibr
    Quote: Dalny V
    And I really want it to happen in our lifetime.

    You want blood, right? And if yours will pour?

    They are either stupid or enemies. Hope they can grab their piece of the pie! You might think that after the civil war they will heal happily. In fact, some of them will be killed, who will die of hunger and disease. who will become disabled, someone beggar and homeless. The fate of wives, mothers, their own children and grandchildren is indifferent to them ... The dumb one is even more terrible than the enemy. Lord, forgive me, dolbo-woodpeckers! Mental degeneration.
    1. Poganini
      Poganini 10 December 2020 18: 04
      -7
      Gorgeous wording, Yuri, bravo! The problem is that dumb people never admit that they are dumb. And here on VO they just have a serpentarium of some kind, judging by the ratio of pluses to reasonable and idiotic posts.
      1. Xnumx vis
        Xnumx vis 10 December 2020 19: 55
        -4
        Quote: Poganini
        on VO they just have a serpentarium

        Full of fighters "for a bright future"! Having ruined Russia, they will each receive an island in the tropics, six million dollars per account, youth and five beauties with a yacht. They are not enemies. They are stupid!
        1. Poganini
          Poganini 10 December 2020 19: 59
          -4
          The most tsimes, which is a clear fresh example of how fighters "get on the island in the tropics" - the Ukrainians have already received, they cannot carry it away. Yes, dumb and dumber. But it’s impossible to explain to a dumb one that he’s dumb - he won’t get it. Problem! )
          1. Xnumx vis
            Xnumx vis 10 December 2020 20: 16
            -5
            Quote: Poganini
            But it’s impossible to explain to a dull person that he’s dumb - he won’t get it. Problem! )
            It won't work. It's easier for them! It's not so scary. They will start thinking, get scared ..
  • fif21
    fif21 19 December 2020 18: 59
    +2
    Quote: kalibr
    You want blood, right? And if yours will pour?

    Scared wassat Ours has been pouring for 30 years already. See the rise in mortality and deaths by age. To die in battle is an honor, to die in poverty is a shame. soldier
  • Erik
    Erik 19 December 2020 22: 56
    0
    Quote: kalibr
    Quote: Dalny V
    And I really want it to happen in our lifetime.

    You want blood, right? And if yours will pour?

    You dropped 15 rubles! :)
  • Olgovich
    Olgovich 9 December 2020 11: 39
    -14%
    Quote: Dalny V
    evidence of severe demographic losses


    Determined by all 70 years of consistent bringing to this: starting with 10-15 million victims of the Bolshevik civil war, continuing with unthinkable demographic losses peaceful 1930s, War, Great Abortion revolution (200 million interrupted lives - nowhere else in the world has this happened), general alcoholization of the population (from 1940 to 1980 the population grew by 30% and alcohol consumption by ..... SEVEN HUNDRED%!), etc.
    "Not a single generation of Russians born after 1910 and entering an active reproductive age, starting from the era of the" great turning point ", the late 1920s - early 1930s, has reproduced itself."

    Demoscope.


    Depopulation of the people - since 1964, the Soviet demographer Perevedentsev said about the accomplished DEPopulation of Russians back in 1970.
    : "Non-Black Earth Region urgently needs to be SEEDED!"


    And the absolute decline (excess of deaths over births) of villagers in the Russian regions of indigenous Russia. rapid population aging - since the late 1950s.

    In 1990 already one third of the population of Russia was in these conditions. see monographs by DIN Denisova and Benzin
    Quote: Dalny V
    We can only hope that our fellow citizens will nevertheless throw off the blinders from their eyes and understand where the country is heading. Organize and will be able to put presumptuous bloodsuckers in the place they owe. And I really want it to happen in our lifetime.

    Again .. someone. And to tear off-her- from the sofa in the name of happiness-no? lol

    As ich did there - circles, underground, "Iskra". party, struggle, etc. -weak?
    All others should, but ... do not want to!

    Again, you got the wrong people?
    1. RUSS
      RUSS 9 December 2020 17: 25
      -1
      Quote: Olgovich
      Predetermined by all 70 years

      Quote: Olgovich
      Predetermined by all 70 years

      Quote: Olgovich
      Predetermined by all 70 years

      I do not always agree with the former head of the Ministry of Culture Medinsky, but he recently said- "The personality of Joseph Stalin was not the original reason for the repressions of the 1930s in the USSR: they would most likely be carried out regardless of who was at the helm of the Soviet state, because the whole point was in the socio-political system that emerged after the October Revolution of 1917. "

      I think he is right, although Stalin is also personally guilty of repressions, now Stalin has a high rating, so Medinsky smoothed the corners a little.
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 10 December 2020 12: 09
    +2
    ..... throw off the blinders ....
    This is actually very difficult. Until now, it is here, in the discussions, that these blinders are there, but they are strangely located. Like, I remember here, I don't remember here. In some areas, one and the same person came to understand, and in others not yet. But 30 years have passed ...
  • froger
    froger 23 December 2020 19: 31
    0
    They won't throw off the blinders, they won't organize. Russia will face a long series of power changes, inheriting Russia from each other with the aim of robbing it in their own personal interests. The reasons for this are as follows:
    - naivety of people,
    - reverence, fear of authorities and readiness to humbly accept noodles on the ears. which they skillfully hang,
    - inability to organize and unite; on the contrary, there is fragmentation and even alienation and hatred of your neighbor, especially if the authorities say that it is this neighbor who is guilty of your plight,
    - inability and unwillingness to understand difficult issues of the true reasons for their plight
    - cowardice of people and fear and unwillingness to stand up for their few leaders, who are defamed and illegally removed from elections to the Duma and to the office of President.
  • Bar1
    Bar1 9 December 2020 08: 46
    +12
    the country is split into very rich and very poor and this is a fact. The rights of the people are taken away: people have to work a lot, this is when the terms until retirement are extended. Prices rise without deduction, this is also a fact: in our magnet they have finally become insolent, sugar is 50 rubles each: "... and the supplier is like that." no.
    This oligarchic capitalism, which Putin built with the company and is leading the country to discontent and future decisive actions. The arrest of the governor Furgal and his replacement with this worthless Degtyarev against the wishes of the people led to popular indignation. This regime of Putin, no matter what percentage he draws for himself, is holding on. in fact, on the bayonets of the National Guard.
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 9 December 2020 09: 22
      -16%
      Quote: Bar1
      Prices are growing without retention, this is also a fact: in our magnet they have finally become insolent, sugar for 50 rubles: ".

      Has it ever occurred to you to buy sugar in bulk at half the price? I have a jar of red caviar in Magnet 699 rubles, they made a discount - 399 rubles. on the market, it also costs 150 rubles. But there is a shop, private, where it is ... 102 rubles. Yes, it is a disgrace that the state allows such a high rate of excess profit. But ... and you do not buy for 699, for 399, but buy for 150 or for 102 ... You just have to search, you can even use a computer, via social media. networks, they write about it. In a word, do not clap your ears, and use the achievements of scientific and technological revolution for your own good. We have opened a Norwegian store ... Jackets - 150 euros, well, very good ... I found out on the Internet who does, who sells THERE, a mail-order company. As a result, I received it by mail for ... 50 euros with postage ... And so you can save on everything. The problem is in the mind and that if yours is not enough, you will not take it. Well, you can ask!
      1. Bar1
        Bar1 9 December 2020 09: 25
        +10
        Quote: kalibr
        But ... don't buy for 699, for 399, but buy for 150 or 102 ..

        good advice, of course, but we do NOT have such cheap shops in the area.
      2. Svarog
        Svarog 9 December 2020 14: 30
        +18
        Quote: kalibr
        Didn't it occur to you

        And it never occurred to you that when the salary is 20 rubles. and there is no car, then you won't get to the wholesale store and you won't buy bags for future use .. also you need to pay for the communal apartment 000-5 tons of them .. for travel on public transport 6 a month .. and it's good if there are no loans and are not sick .. and you also need to eat and dress ..
        What advice will come from you in this case? Looking for a second, third job?
        1. kalibr
          kalibr 9 December 2020 15: 27
          -10%
          Quote: Svarog
          And it never occurred to you that when the salary is 20 rubles.

          Vladimir! So my pension is less than your salary, and my wife still has 7,800 rubles. and a communal apartment like yours, but just now there is no passage. And how not? To work ... And to the dacha, to the market, the base, to the doctors ... it will also be. So I find both the second and the third ... at 66 years old. You can't, can you? And what's stopping you?
          1. Svarog
            Svarog 9 December 2020 15: 33
            +13
            Quote: kalibr
            You can't, can you? And what's stopping you?

            Vyacheslav, so your pension is so ... for petty expenses, if you ride around Europe several times a year ... and you don't need to unload bags in writing ... maybe at the age of 66 ... Now, if you told me that the cars in You have been unloading for 66 years or you are standing at the machine, I would certainly be surprised .. Or do you offer the whole country to become a writer?
          2. Looking for
            Looking for 9 December 2020 16: 36
            +7
            and for what shishi you then drive around Europe ???
          3. andrew42
            andrew42 10 December 2020 18: 23
            +7
            Eh, Caliber, Caliber ... Here she is, the kulak is the essence :) Straight stroking his beard, stroking his tummy, benevolently, like in Shaov's song about Big Bosses "... and will give owls instead of money .." I have met a lot of characters in my life - we found a warm niche, there are enough crumbs from the table, and well, let's teach life with a personal example of "stupid hard workers". Classics of the genre: I remember, I quit my job in the civil service in 2000 (the children went, there was nothing to pay for a removable 1-shka, I sold the car, etc.) in the name of the GPP I ran around the country from Siberia to Kaliningrad, rode a train to Nizhny Novgorod and I had a neighbor in the compartment - a military pensioner. Kaak told me how well he was living, and was indignant at what others were unhappy with. I listened to him for a day, he counted on business trips that there was enough for the return line, and thought, - What a bastard! And we still have many such "beavers" who pulled the edge of a blanket over their hut. That's why we have such a "zhist haroshaya". That is, the number of comfortable lumpen (often with the face of an intelligent) is still far enough away. And, unfortunately, the revolutionary situation will not come soon.
      3. Akuzenka
        Akuzenka 9 December 2020 15: 24
        +11
        Has it ever occurred to you to buy sugar in bulk at half the price?
        Mr. Gauleiter Shpakovsky, not everyone has cars to drive to the wholesale warehouse, and not everyone has the means to buy a bag of sugar at the wholesale price. Take advice to resellers that wind up prices and force people to buy everything at a high price and within walking distance.
    2. Akuzenka
      Akuzenka 9 December 2020 15: 21
      +1
      The arrest of the governor Furgal and his replacement with this worthless Degtyarev, against the wishes of the people, led to popular indignation. This regime of Putin, no matter what percentage he draws for himself, is essentially based on the bayonets of the National Guard.
      Ha. The "Furgal regime" would be the same as the "Putin regime". From the permutation of the terms, the amount does not change. And the people were simply paid for the rallies, they wanted to eat, but Furgal's team did not want to leave their homes, so they were paying. Capitalism.
      1. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 9 December 2020 16: 05
        +6
        As for Furgal, this is the Khabarovsk Luzhkov, who threw a little on the social program to the local residents, and when, on the eve of a large order for the Sakhalin bridge, they decided to squeeze Amurstal from him, then he, more precisely. his team organized these protests.
    3. Quadro
      Quadro 18 December 2020 14: 58
      -2
      Another wagonist. He was so good, in the 90s he killed people, so good that a lot of people went to the tar to complain about heaps of problems that they did not see a wonderful van or hid it under the carpet for bribes. You, as monarchists, nikolashka brutally crushed the peasants, but you are only crying that nikolashka was killed, not the peasants.
  • Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
    Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 9 December 2020 09: 56
    +7
    Quote: yuliatreb
    The article clearly smells like something,

    pranks about a team of authors with a common nickname "Samsonov". In the absence of interesting authors and materials, VO, alas, gets dirty with scribble of this kind. In fact, this is just an adapted retelling of Channel One propaganda. Well, or Shapiro (Solovyova).
  • Olgovich
    Olgovich 9 December 2020 11: 06
    -12%
    Quote: yuliatreb
    The article clearly smells like something

    I agree: 90% of the "facts" given in it are from alternative history and have nothing to do with reality.

    Funny article! lol

    Some would read Stalin's "A short course in the history of vkbe", where it is written in detail and clearly that the February revolution committed the PROLETARIAT on call Bolsheviks and under BOLSHEVIKOV leadership on the streets.

    The independence parade happened POST AFTER THE THIEF, on the basis of the decrees of the bolsheviks on peace and the rights of peoples, this is also from a conscientious textbook.
    NONE of independence was declared before the THIEF. Even in Ukraine, even according to the ukronationalists, real power belonged to the commissars of the Provisional Government (Savchenko, 12 wars for Ukraine)

    In the same place, in the Soviet textbook, someone can find out when the civil war began - and this is not February 17.

    For example, England at the beginning of World War I planned to dismember the Russian Empire, to create a "cordon sanitaire" from the western Russian regions

    To an example, this is a lie, can someone bring documents? No, he can not.

    And so on every point.

    But the article is a plus: funny, yes! lol
    1. Sugar Honeyovich
      Sugar Honeyovich 9 December 2020 14: 28
      +1
      [quote = Olgovich] The parade of independence took place only AFTER the thief [/ quote]
      Began back in the spring-summer of 1917.
      [quote = Olgovich] on the basis of decrees [/ quote
      Not based on decrees.
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 9 December 2020 14: 53
        -12%
        Quote: Sahar Medovich
        Began back in the spring-summer of 1917.

        Ignorant LIE: bring declaration of independence anyone from Russia to a thief.

        Again... lol not lol can you lol
        Quote: Sahar Medovich
        Not based on decrees.

        read them and find them.
        1. Sugar Honeyovich
          Sugar Honeyovich 9 December 2020 14: 58
          +6
          Quote: Olgovich
          give an ad

          Already led. Personally for you.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 9 December 2020 15: 43
            -9
            Quote: Sahar Medovich
            Already led. Personally for you.

            Lying.
            1. Sugar Honeyovich
              Sugar Honeyovich 9 December 2020 16: 08
              +6
              Truth. Your lie.
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 10 December 2020 11: 18
                -2
                Quote: Sahar Medovich
                Truth. Your lie.

                so bring, liar, what's the problem?

                But you lol can not lol
                1. Sugar Honeyovich
                  Sugar Honeyovich 10 December 2020 11: 21
                  0
                  Long ago brought. Sweep the trash off the table and find value.
        2. Bar1
          Bar1 10 December 2020 12: 53
          0
          Quote: Olgovich
          Ignorant LIE: cite the declaration of independence by anyone from Russia to a thief.

          before the October revolution, the first provisional government approved the independence of Poland, and the government of Lenin immediately after the revolution approved the independence of Finland, who IMMEDIATELY became enemies of the new Russia. And on the territory of Karelia, this new Finland created concentration camps for the Russians. So who were these Lvov, Lenin, Trotsky? Were they for Russian civilization? Of course not. It was nerus and they were against the Russians.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 10 December 2020 13: 46
            -4
            Quote: Bar1
            before the October Revolution, the first provisional government approved the independence of Poland

            no

            1.VP Recognized the right to determine, but the question left to US,

            2. Poland did not declare independence before the VOR.

            Once again: ALL independence AFTER THE THIEF.
            1. Bar1
              Bar1 10 December 2020 15: 21
              +1
              Quote: Olgovich
              1.VP Acknowledged the right to determine, but the question was left to the US,

              and where is it written that to the mustache?
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 10 December 2020 16: 28
                -1
                Quote: Bar1
                Quote: Olgovich
                1.VP Acknowledged the right to determine, but the question was left to the US,

                and where is it written that to the mustache?

                In the Address to the Poles of the Provisional Government in March 17;
                Russian Constituent Assembly To come give your consent to those changes in the state territory of Russiawhich are necessary for the formation of a free Poland
                1. Bar1
                  Bar1 10 December 2020 18: 17
                  +1
                  I asked you to give a link to a document or at least an article in the encyclopedia.
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 10 December 2020 20: 41
                    -3
                    Quote: Bar1
                    I asked you to give a link to a document or at least an article in the encyclopedia.

                    You asked "where is it written, what's up?"

                    You are answered somewhere in the "appeal". And even a quote is given.

                    The text of the Appeal is also on VO.
    2. Aviator_
      Aviator_ 9 December 2020 16: 08
      +6
      Some would read Stalin's "Short Course in the History of the VKBE", where it is written in detail and clearly that the February revolution was carried out by the PROLETARIAT at the call of the Bolsheviks

      And where in the "Short Course" such rubbish? The Chukchi is not a reader, the Chukchi is a writer.
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 10 December 2020 11: 09
        -1
        Quote: Aviator_
        Chukcha not reader, chukcha writer.

        This is an insult to nakionality and incitement to ethnic hatred, a pseudo "communist". you don't even understand that ...
        Quote: Aviator_
        And where in the "Short Course" such rubbish?

        You. I see, definitely not a reader. lol

        For tankers, I repeat: in the "Short course on the history of VKPB"... Take and read about the FEVR revolution:

        On International Worker's Day, February 23 (March 8) on call Petrograd Committee of the Bolsheviks workers took to the streets to demonstrate against hunger, war, tsarism


        Guide the practical work of the Bolshevik party was carried out at that time by those who were in Petrograd The Bureau of the Central Committee of our Party, headed by Comrade Molotov. The Bureau of the Central Committee issued a manifesto on February 26 (March 11) calling for the continuation of the armed struggle against tsarism, for the creation of a Provisional Revolutionary Government.

        The revolution was carried out by the proletariat, he showed heroism, he shed blood, he carried away with him the widest masses of the working and the poorest population ..
        .

        Bolsheviks led the direct struggle of the masses in the streets


        Got it, no?

        A shame ... You need to TEACH your idols, and not invent the opposite of them, there is still a lot of interesting things lol
        1. Aviator_
          Aviator_ 10 December 2020 11: 15
          +4
          And where is the February revolution here? Did Trotsky, Lenin and revolutionary sailors accept the abdication of Nicholas II? The text only says that there was a call, that it is not necessary to stop after renunciation, to go further. And that's all.
          I am wrong about the Chukchi. I should have written about the Romanian.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 10 December 2020 11: 38
            -1
            Quote: Aviator_
            And where is the February revolution here?

            What?!! belay fool lol

            See DATES given it's all about the FEVR revol and who made it.

            Already the THIRD TIME has not reached? lol

            On, once again:
            On the International Day of the Worker, February 23 (March 8) at the call of the Petrograd Committee BOLSHEVIKOV workers took to the streets to demonstrate against hunger, war, tsarism


            The leadership of the practical work of the Bolshevik Party was carried out at that time by the Bureau of the Central Committee of our party, which was in Petrograd, headed by Comrade Molotov. The Bureau of the Central Committee issued on February 26 (March 11) a manifesto calling for the continuation of the armed struggle against tsarism, for the creation of a Provisional Revolutionary Government.

            Revolution DONE PROLETPRIAT, he displayed heroism, he shed blood, he drew with him the widest masses of the working and the poorest population ..
            .

            [b] BOLSHEVIKI led n [/ b] the direct struggle of the masses in the streets
            .

            dawned not?
            Quote: Aviator_
            I am wrong about the Chukchi. I should have written about the Romanian.

            Why are Romanians worse than you, nationalist?
          2. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 10 December 2020 15: 18
            +1
            Quote: Aviator_
            And where is the February revolution here? Did Trotsky, Lenin and revolutionary sailors accept the abdication of Nicholas II? The text only says that there was a call, that it is not necessary to stop after renunciation, to go further. And that's all.
            I am wrong about the Chukchi. I should have written about the Romanian.
            I want to add that the Church Hierarchies congratulated the Provisional Government
    3. Looking for
      Looking for 9 December 2020 16: 39
      +2
      in which case. we will chop. like you. without any pity.
  • iouris
    iouris 9 December 2020 12: 00
    +2
    Why Civil War? The citizens are not armed.
    1. Looking for
      Looking for 9 December 2020 16: 42
      +4
      well, if you wish, this is not a problem.
      1. mat-vey
        mat-vey 9 December 2020 17: 23
        +3
        Quote: Seeker
        well, if you wish

        This is not a desire - this is a forced necessity, that is, it was forced.
  • Svarog
    Svarog 9 December 2020 14: 20
    +8
    Thus, the victory of the new Februaryist revolutionaries in 1991-1993. was not a restoration of "old Russia". It was again the victory of the Westernizers, who tried to make Russia a part of the West (Europe). The output would be a raw material, cultural appendage, in which our people would not have any future there.

    And who still has doubts? At the exit, we got a raw material appendage, in which we already have no future.
  • Megatron
    Megatron 15 December 2020 22: 57
    +1
    The current "whites" are regime thieving bastards who have settled behind the Kremlin wall.

    Billions, French rolls and fur stores they already have, they dream only of serfs who can be flogged in the stables (in the garage).
  • Vitaly Tikhonov
    Vitaly Tikhonov 8 January 2021 04: 24
    0
    It smells of shit from this article
  • Black flame
    Black flame 10 January 2021 20: 42
    0
    Correct words!
  • Iskazi
    Iskazi 9 December 2020 04: 50
    0
    There is no need to be afraid of a revolution in Russia ... in general it would be a blessing for the country. The country will be reformatted anyway, the dull article of the author struck by posreatism does not roll, there are too many words. The author needs to develop his imagination - there is no enthusiasm in him ..., a detailed presentation of the brochure - "mutiny at Ochakovo"
    1. apro
      apro 9 December 2020 05: 35
      0
      Quote: Iskazi
      There is no need to be afraid of the revolution in Russia ...

      Just don't confuse the revolution and the coup .. and the counter-revolution ..
    2. Cartalon
      Cartalon 9 December 2020 06: 34
      +1
      Russia will not survive another revolution
      1. Lech from Android.
        Lech from Android. 9 December 2020 06: 42
        +3
        Russia will not survive another revolution

        Picking up.
        Russian President Vladimir Putin signed a federal law to increase the expected period of funded pension payments

        The State Duma supported the project to expand the powers of the police

        From January 1, 2021, residents will not be able to store personal belongings in the attics of apartment buildings, as well as on the basement floors. According to clause 16 of the government decree No. 1479 "On approval of the rules of the fire regime in the Russian Federation"

        The tightening of the screws by those in power is on all fronts.
        The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.
        1. depressant
          depressant 9 December 2020 09: 11
          +12
          Yes, colleague, the government itself discredits itself in the eyes of the population so that it looks like a provocation. Like, come on, rise up, and the fed Rosgvardia, the police, the FSB and the army will kill all the active ones, grace will come. For whom?
          I know that major political and economic reforms have been started, and reforms, as you know, love silence. Reforms in favor of whom?
          Do I have confidence in the government? To those people who have openly led Russia to "negative growth" in the economy over the past six years? I have no confidence in them! And they, meanwhile, are still in power and blame the coronavirus and masks not worn by part of the population for all their failures.
          Are these people afraid of riots, uprisings, coups? Fear. For they have something to lose.
          Am I afraid of riots, uprisings, coups? I'm afraid. For the riots, uprising and coup d'etat are not initiated by me, but by those who lead the population to this - the ruling and plundering stratum, which, in order to achieve its goals of establishing absolute power and bringing the population into a now openly slave state, will bring to the streets not only the Russian Guard, the police, the FSB and the army, but also marauders, hooligans, in general, any scumbags that the aforementioned power structures will prevent only to the extent that those scumbags will be personally hurt.
          The message of the authorities "We are reforming! Everything will be fine!" looks like hypocrisy, outright lies, not concealing intentions to rob and drastically reduce the local population of Russia, making the survivors slaves. The masks have been dropped! The population can drop theirs.
      2. aleksejkabanets
        aleksejkabanets 9 December 2020 08: 35
        +8
        Quote: Cartalon
        Russia will not survive another revolution

        It won't survive further degradation for sure. Let me remind you that revolution means a change in the socio-economic formation from regressive to progressive. That is, during the bourgeois revolution, the regressive feudal socio-economic formation was replaced by a more progressive - bourgeois, during the socialist revolution, respectively, the regressive bourgeois formation, was replaced by the progressive, that is, socialist. In the 90s, for example, there was a rollback to the previous socio-economic formation. This phenomenon is called a reaction. Name me at least one revolution that led to regression. Do not confuse with Maidans and other "color revolutions".
        1. Lech from Android.
          Lech from Android. 9 December 2020 08: 47
          -2
          Revolutions are accompanied by massive bloodshed.
          Does the Russian people have a margin of safety after another murder within themselves. So there are big problems with childbirth. hi
          1. aleksejkabanets
            aleksejkabanets 9 December 2020 09: 16
            +8
            hi Hello Colleague.
            Quote: Lech from Android.
            Revolutions are accompanied by massive bloodshed.

            Unfortunately, any progress is accompanied by more and more bloodshed. With the invention of bows, intertribal wars became bloodier, with the invention of steam engines and machine guns, interstate wars became even bloodier. The change of the slave system to the feudal one was accompanied by the fall of the Roman Empire, blood and the Dark Ages. The change of the feudal system to the bourgeois one was accompanied by several centuries of wars and revolutions in Europe. By the way, the civil war in the young Soviet republic was by no means unleashed by the revolutionary class; the revolution itself was relatively bloodless. It was unleashed by the class removed from power and it began with the uprising of the White Czechs, supported by the Entente and the local bourgeoisie.
            Quote: Lech from Android.
            Does the Russian people have a margin of safety after another murder within themselves?

            I try to remember the states that collapsed after the revolution, and I can't remember. Maybe Korea, but there is a slightly different story.
            Quote: Lech from Android.
            So there are big problems with childbirth.

            The trouble is not that there are problems with childbirth, but that there is a steady downward trend in the birth rate and its root lies in the economic plane. If this is not changed, then we will all gradually become extinct, like dinosaurs, and some migrants from Central Asia or Africa will replace us.
            1. Obliterator
              Obliterator 9 December 2020 11: 40
              0
              Quote: aleksejkabanets
              The trouble is not that there are problems with childbirth, but that there is a steady downward trend in the birth rate and its root lies in the economic plane.

              Its root lies not in the economy, but in modern society as a whole. Here children as such are not really needed, and not that there is no money for them. Europeans and Americans have a lot of dough, and children are scanty.
              Quote: aleksejkabanets
              Let me remind you that revolution means a change in the socio-economic formation from regressive to progressive. That is, during the bourgeois revolution, the regressive feudal socio-economic formation was replaced by a more progressive - bourgeois, during the socialist revolution, respectively, the regressive bourgeois formation, was replaced by the progressive, that is, socialist. In the 90s, for example, there was a rollback to the previous socio-economic formation. This phenomenon is called a reaction. Name me at least one revolution that led to regression. Do not confuse with Maidans and other "color revolutions".

              In the current situation in the Russian Federation there can be no revolutions other than colored ones.
              1. aleksejkabanets
                aleksejkabanets 9 December 2020 11: 52
                +7
                Quote: Obliterator
                Its root lies not in the economy, but in modern society as a whole. Here children as such are not really needed, and not that there is no money for them. Europeans and Americans have a lot of dough, and children are scanty.

                Dough in bulk, it's not true, or rather everything is relative. Just raising a child today is an extremely costly event, both in time and financially. I have five, I know what I'm talking about.
                Quote: Obliterator
                In the current situation in the Russian Federation there can be no revolutions other than colored ones.

                Please substantiate your idea.
                1. Obliterator
                  Obliterator 9 December 2020 13: 05
                  0
                  Quote: aleksejkabanets
                  Dough in bulk, it's not true, or rather everything is relative. Just raising a child today is an extremely costly event, both in time and financially. I have five, I know what I'm talking about.

                  For the simple reproduction of the nation (even without growth), it is approximately necessary that each family has 2 children, and on average 15 out of 100 families have three. Average Russians can do that. Well, yes, a car from a million at the price is not a fact of what you buy, and a couple of times a year you won't fly to Spain on vacation - well, this is a matter of priorities.
                  Quote: aleksejkabanets
                  Please substantiate your idea.

                  My opinion is that it is practically impossible to turn a revolution in modern conditions without support from abroad. And with foreign support, it is already turning into color. With the current technologies and experience in the production of these very color revolutions, the country can be derbanded virtually online, even without coming to it.
                  1. aleksejkabanets
                    aleksejkabanets 9 December 2020 13: 30
                    +7
                    Quote: Obliterator
                    and on average, 15 out of 100 families have three. Average Russians can do that.

                    In the capitals, perhaps in the provinces - not a fact.
                    Quote: Obliterator
                    Well, yes, a car from a million at a price is not a fact of what you buy, and a couple of times a year you won't fly to Spain on vacation - well, this is a matter of priorities.

                    I live in the province, I have five children. If one falls ill, then everyone will get ill. About the prices of medicines, and even in such quantities, you can keep silent. About nutrition, I'm not saying that a child eats, that an adult is the same. I have 10 at the price of 100 tr.
                    But this is not the main thing, the main thing is the time that must be spent on them. Four students, this is a sports section. My education is family-taught, this is the time, but at least the result is not like in school, and the tutor is only in English. Senior classes study in a normal (we only have online) school from 5 tr. for a month, but all are cheaper than tutors. All this also means that one of the parents does not work, but takes care of the children. Are many families ready for such sacrifices? Between 3 and 5 the difference is not great.
                    Quote: Obliterator
                    My opinion is that it is practically impossible to turn a revolution in modern conditions without support from abroad.

                    A revolution is always a movement of the masses, it is impossible to pay for it from abroad, no money will be enough. What kind of support did the Bolsheviks, Anarchists, or Left-wing Socialists have from abroad?
                    1. Obliterator
                      Obliterator 9 December 2020 14: 36
                      0
                      Quote: aleksejkabanets
                      In the capitals, perhaps in the provinces - not a fact.

                      Quote: aleksejkabanets
                      I live in the province, I have five children.

                      I honestly don't understand what we are arguing about then. As the saying goes: "God gave children - and will give to children." Yes, it's hard and expensive, but when was it easier? If we talk about childhood with any person who was born and lived in the first half of the twentieth century in a Russian village, it becomes clear that we really do not have problems, but rather expenses.
                      Quote: aleksejkabanets
                      A revolution is always a movement of the masses, it is impossible to pay for it from abroad, no money will be enough. What kind of support did the Bolsheviks, Anarchists, or Left-wing Socialists have from abroad?

                      The movement of the masses can be directed, oriented towards the desired result. In 1917, the conditions were different - Europe and the United States were too busy with WWI, they did not actively get involved in the struggle for power, and therefore they did not immediately understand what kind of people came to power. The question of support from abroad for political parties, but at least the Bolsheviks, by the way, remains open.
                      1. aleksejkabanets
                        aleksejkabanets 9 December 2020 17: 09
                        0
                        Quote: Obliterator
                        I honestly don't understand what we are arguing about then. As the saying goes: "God gave children - and will give to children." Yes, it's hard and expensive, but when was it easier?

                        When I was raised by my parents, they worked from 8 to 17 5/2. There was enough money on vacation to go from Navoi to Armavir through Moscow. From Armavir to the sea and back, respectively. All circles were within walking distance, from sports to technical creativity. And a lot of that. This is me about the subject of our dispute, that matter or consciousness is primary)))))) Earlier it was easier, although the same is not easy, probably.
                        Quote: Obliterator
                        If we talk about childhood with any person who was born and lived in the first half of the twentieth century in a Russian village, it becomes clear that we really do not have problems, but rather expenses.

                        It's bad that we are going there today, in the first half of the twentieth century, by leaps and bounds. That's what's bad.
                      2. andrew42
                        andrew42 10 December 2020 18: 36
                        +1
                        It's okay if at the beginning of XX. The tendency to change the structure of society is more like a "trip" to the very middle of the XNUMXth century, but in a "digital" performance.
                      3. aleksejkabanets
                        aleksejkabanets 10 December 2020 19: 03
                        -1
                        Quote: andrew42
                        It's okay if at the beginning of XX. The tendency to change the structure of society is more like a "trip" to the very middle of the XNUMXth century, but in a "digital" performance.

                        You are right, colleague, soon we will find out on our own skin why our great-grandfathers, and great-great-grandfathers, made a revolution.
            2. kalibr
              kalibr 9 December 2020 15: 52
              -7
              Quote: aleksejkabanets
              Dough in bulk, it's not true, or rather everything is relative. Just raising a child today is an extremely costly event, both in time and financially. I have five, I know what I'm talking about.

              Just hair on end. You are either a hero or a madman!
        2. Looking for
          Looking for 9 December 2020 16: 48
          0
          I am trying to remember the states that collapsed after the revolution, and I cannot remember, even more so, the countries that forgave through the civil war, emerged from it renewed - England, France, USA, Russia.
    3. Cartalon
      Cartalon 9 December 2020 09: 15
      -11%
      There was no socialist formation under the USSR, there was state capitalism, you at least do not deceive yourself
      1. aleksejkabanets
        aleksejkabanets 9 December 2020 09: 23
        +4
        Quote: Cartalon
        There was no socialist formation under the USSR, there was state capitalism, you at least do not deceive yourself

        The state and social system, the basis of production relations of which is social ownership of the means of production and in which the principle is implemented: from each according to his abilities, to each according to his work, socialism is called. I am not at all against such "state capitalism" as under the USSR. Why did you even write this? Did we argue about the system in the USSR? Better answer the question
        Quote: aleksejkabanets
        Name me at least one revolution that led to regression. Do not confuse with Maidans and other "color revolutions".

        or there is nothing to answer and you just "move off the topic"?
        1. Cartalon
          Cartalon 9 December 2020 09: 42
          -8
          If society could not manage this property, then what kind of public property, all property belonged to the state, and not to some kind of society, I repeat to myself.
          1. aleksejkabanets
            aleksejkabanets 9 December 2020 10: 02
            +3
            Quote: Cartalon
            If society could not manage this property, then what kind of public property, all property belonged to the state, and not to some kind of society, I repeat to myself.

            Read, for example, about rural cooperatives. And yet you did not answer the question, but continue to move out
            Quote: aleksejkabanets
            Name me at least one revolution that led to regression. Do not confuse with Maidans and other "color revolutions".

            Or is there nothing to answer?
            1. Cartalon
              Cartalon 9 December 2020 10: 45
              -4
              Naturally, not a single revolution led to regression, because otherwise you would say that it was not a revolution.
              1. aleksejkabanets
                aleksejkabanets 9 December 2020 10: 58
                +3
                Quote: Cartalon
                Naturally, not a single revolution led to regression, because otherwise you would say that it was not a revolution.

                In fact, it is necessary to distinguish between revolution and "Maidan", in "Maidan" there is really nothing good and should be avoided. No matter how negative I feel about our current authorities, however, if they start a "revolution from above", for example, nationalize the banking sector, the extractive industry and strategic sectors of the economy, I will be the first to "go out" to support them. The only pity is that the chances of this tend to zero.
                1. Cartalon
                  Cartalon 9 December 2020 11: 50
                  -3
                  And the fact that these industries will be managed as ineffectively as they are now does not matter to you, state property is good, private property is bad, that's all your ideas.
                  1. aleksejkabanets
                    aleksejkabanets 9 December 2020 12: 08
                    +4
                    Quote: Cartalon
                    And the fact that these industries will be managed as ineffectively as now

                    How did you make this conclusion? Why do you think that machine-tool building, or civil aviation, for example, was poorly managed under the USSR, but today it is well managed?
                    Quote: Cartalon
                    public property is good, private property is bad, that's all your ideas.

                    Tell me how, for example, did you not like the nationalization of the banking sector? Do you like the fact that banks behave like money lenders today? For example, I am for the complete "zeroing" of loans, especially mortgages. Or is it only Solntselikiy that can be reset to zero?
        2. kalibr
          kalibr 9 December 2020 10: 14
          -11%
          Quote: aleksejkabanets
          is public ownership of the means of production and under which the principle is implemented: from each according to his abilities, to each according to his work, socialism is called.

          And to whom did the collective of which plant had the right to develop a production plan, output, and salary? And for what "work" did the 1st and 2nd secretaries of the OK CPSU receive "wages in envelopes."
          1. aleksejkabanets
            aleksejkabanets 9 December 2020 10: 23
            +9
            Quote: kalibr
            And for what "work" did the 1st and 2nd secretaries of the OK CPSU receive "envelope salaries."

            Better when they get it like Sechin and Miller? And what envelopes are we talking about? About bonuses for a completed plan?
            Quote: kalibr
            And to whom did the collective of which plant owned the right to develop a production plan, output and salary?

            For what reason do you think that in a planned economy the development of a plan should proceed at the enterprise level? Is it the same for production rates and salary? Maybe you propose to develop the state budget for each family?
            1. kalibr
              kalibr 9 December 2020 10: 54
              -8
              Quote: aleksejkabanets
              For what reason do you think that in a planned economy the development of a plan should proceed at the enterprise level?

              For public property reasons. If it is state-owned, then at the state level. Have you read a textbook on political economy for a long time?
              1. aleksejkabanets
                aleksejkabanets 9 December 2020 11: 00
                +7
                Quote: kalibr
                For public property reasons.

                Should the government plan be accepted by enterprises? Perhaps the best elected representatives of these enterprises?
            2. kalibr
              kalibr 9 December 2020 10: 56
              -9
              Quote: aleksejkabanets
              Better when they get it like Sechin and Miller? And what envelopes are we talking about? About bonuses for a completed plan?

              It's better! They appoint themselves. And the secretaries dumped the state. And you don't know about the "envelope system"? It's strange ... "Sovkovye" everyone knew ... But there is about it on the Web. Look ...
              1. aleksejkabanets
                aleksejkabanets 9 December 2020 11: 05
                +7
                Quote: kalibr
                It's better! They appoint themselves.

                Who is better? The majority of the country's population or a handful of snickering geeks?
                Quote: kalibr
                And you don't know about the "envelope system"?

                I already answered
                Quote: aleksejkabanets
                And what kind of envelopes are we talking about? About bonuses for a completed plan?

                The bonuses were, and not small, but not comparable with the income of those thieves who carried out the "privatization".
                1. kalibr
                  kalibr 9 December 2020 11: 18
                  -8
                  Quote: aleksejkabanets
                  The bonuses were, and not small, but not comparable with the income of those thieves who carried out the "privatization".

                  These are not awards ... I don’t want to look, the position of the ostrich, of course. Yes, it is not comparable with income. But I repeat. Then the state paid, out of our common, including my pocket. Yet it was "soviet", sorry "general". And now they have the opportunity to earn and ... earn. We did, but you and I didn't. Well, we can only blame ourselves.
                  1. aleksejkabanets
                    aleksejkabanets 9 December 2020 11: 26
                    +8
                    Quote: kalibr
                    Then the state paid, from our common, including my pocket

                    Do not juggle concepts, but today the same is stolen from my pocket. Or you can call "Chubais privatization" another word than "large-scale theft"?
                  2. Svarog
                    Svarog 9 December 2020 14: 36
                    +8
                    Quote: kalibr
                    Then the state paid, from our common, including my pocket

                    And now and what kind of feed do state employees get paid? Not from mine?
                    And now they have the opportunity to earn and ... earn. We did, but you and I didn't.

                    Do you offer to rob the loot? Well, they managed to "earn" ..
                    Can you still bring the names of honestly earned billionaires? Only those who fled to the west should not be offered ..
                  3. Pechkin
                    Pechkin 13 December 2020 07: 57
                    0
                    Arkady Volozh for example.
                2. Aviator_
                  Aviator_ 9 December 2020 19: 00
                  +2
                  Then the state paid, out of our common, including my pocket. Yet it was "soviet", sorry "general".

                  And what did you create by repeating the mantra for money: "The teaching of Marx is omnipotent because it is true!"
                3. Reptiloid
                  Reptiloid 10 December 2020 15: 26
                  +3
                  Look, Sergei, as it is written ---- everything was shovel. Like, so-so? This means that work, and results, and dissertation, and lectures.
                  Nobody called space and aviation that way!
                4. Aviator_
                  Aviator_ 10 December 2020 18: 56
                  +3
                  This is from the family, apparently. The fact that he hates the rural population was expressed in a note about how he hid from the call, teaching in a rural school, and here it is in plain text that maman protected him from a working profession.
                5. Reptiloid
                  Reptiloid 10 December 2020 19: 11
                  +2
                  No, not everything is so simple. Somewhere it was that relatives could get rid of the village, but did not want to, because it was that relatives could do more, and did not become.
                  Sometimes, the person tells not in his favor, and sometimes he falsifies.
                6. Aviator_
                  Aviator_ 10 December 2020 19: 42
                  +2
                  Sometimes, the person tells not in his favor, and sometimes he falsifies.

                  At times he reminds me of Khlestakov from Gogol's "Inspector General", the same "extraordinary lightness in thoughts"
                  And after graduation, he had a choice - either to serve for a year, or to work for three years in the village. It was then that he realized that in the village he was his own director, and in the barracks he would have scrubbed toilets all year, with such an attitude towards the surrounding people.
                7. Reptiloid
                  Reptiloid 10 December 2020 19: 46
                  +1
                  And I have a guy, I forgot, from Rybakov's trilogy. Who was against the pioneers and mocked.
                8. Aviator_
                  Aviator_ 10 December 2020 20: 28
                  +2
                  I don't know Rybakov's "Kortik" well, I read the book for a very long time, then I liked it, I watched the movies in fragments and already in adulthood.
                9. Reptiloid
                  Reptiloid 10 December 2020 21: 23
                  +1
                  And I just watched. good good
                  Dirk. Bronze bird. The last summer of childhood ++++++++
                  I need to review it soon. WHAT I wish you too
            3. kalibr
              kalibr 10 December 2020 19: 56
              -3
              Sergey, you have forgotten that after the university you served not a year, but a year and a half. And a year and a half with a different rabble ... Having a charming wife and a lovely child at home ... In my opinion, the choice is unambiguous. Well, the law. Law, dearest, is law. And he, Sergei, was on my side, otherwise, yes, I would have scrubbed toilets. But ... someone else had to scrub them instead of me! Sillier ...
            4. Reptiloid
              Reptiloid 10 December 2020 20: 12
              +3
              Quote: kalibr
              Sergey, you have forgotten that after the university you served not a year, but a year and a half. And a year and a half with a different rabble ... Having a charming wife and a lovely child at home ... In my opinion, the choice is unambiguous. Well, the law. Law, dearest, is law. And he, Sergei, was on my side, otherwise, yes, I would have scrubbed toilets. But ... someone else had to scrub them instead of me! Sillier ...

              Yeah, well, they would clean the toilets. Than dragging a tiny daughter and wife, where there is no convenience. They knew how it was there. They wrote how my daughter was sick. It means they suffered for your sake, so long as you do not go to the Army.
            5. kalibr
              kalibr 10 December 2020 20: 37
              0
              Dima, there is such a thing as love. And with a loved one who does everything for you, and you for him, the lack of amenities is not critical! I don't know if you will understand this, but it is so.
            6. Reptiloid
              Reptiloid 10 December 2020 21: 01
              +2
              Quote: kalibr
              Dima, there is such a thing as love. And with a loved one who does everything for you, and you for him, the lack of amenities is not critical! I don't know if you will understand this, but it is so.

              Well, yes, and what did you do there? How did those conditions improve? And how my daughter got sick ---- so they wrote themselves, how they ran and couldn't find a car. If only they bought a Soviet motorcycle, or something.
              And then they would have sold it as they returned. In general, it is not clear why the daughter was dragged there. After all, there was someone to leave in good conditions.
            7. kalibr
              kalibr 10 December 2020 21: 21
              0
              Quote: Reptiloid
              In general, it is not clear why the daughter was dragged there. After all, there was someone to leave in good conditions.

              Dima, you are strange. This was our child. Why did someone have to sit with her, even if her own grandmother. They have their own lives, we have ours. And, by the way, she already lived there better than anyone. An excellent kindergarten, fresh air, milk ... For a small child, the village is very good. And in summer there is always sea, sun, sand. Is it really incomprehensible? What right did we have in general to load our problems on the problems of our parents, old and sick. Or is this normal for you?
              And the motorcycle ... Ha! And where would I ride it through the mud there? Through the snowdrifts ... Tell me, I would buy a snowmobile. And in the summer I was not there.
            8. Reptiloid
              Reptiloid 10 December 2020 21: 30
              +2
              Aha! So now, it turns out, the village is not as bad as it was said before. There was also something about the inhabitants.
            9. kalibr
              kalibr 10 December 2020 22: 10
              0
              Quote: Reptiloid
              Aha! So now, it turns out, the village is not as bad as it was said before. There was also something about the inhabitants.

              Dima, you are impassable ... You have all the estimated characteristics at the level of an amoeba. And everything is not so bad! Even in prison, they take a walk and go to the bathhouse ...
            10. Reptiloid
              Reptiloid 10 December 2020 22: 42
              0
              I remember what they wrote about the villagers and about their various relatives. The word "amoeba" would fit. Also, how many words of derision were devoted to a shovel toilet. Aa it turned out that it was your toilet, which could be 100 years old, and nothing, they were waiting for the USSR to give an apartment. After all, they wrote themselves, so why puff? It's incomprehensible. I'll be home soon.
            11. Reptiloid
              Reptiloid 11 December 2020 10: 25
              0
              Quote: kalibr
              Quote: Reptiloid
              Aha! So now, it turns out, the village is not as bad as it was said before. There was also something about the inhabitants.

              Dima, you are impassable ... You have all the estimated characteristics at the level of an amoeba. And everything is not so bad! Even in prison, they take a walk and go to the bathhouse ...

              In general, it is not clear, I wrote how my daughter felt good in the village, milk and other ... as I agreed - I was an amoeba, and before that, when I was against dragging the child, I did not understand ... ... then they called it a prison ........ where is the point? Where is the logic?
              Sergei and I sat and talked quietly and calmly, so you began to puff and run up, contradictions to yourself, hinting at forbidden words. ... And allusions to forbidden words are when there are no real arguments. That's what.
  • Aviator_
    Aviator_ 10 December 2020 20: 34
    +2
    But ... someone else had to scrub them instead of me! Sillier...

    Here, Vyacheslav, this phrase says it all. It turns out the people around are stupid, well, no luck with him in any way. There is only one D'Artagnan among these. And my son served a year as a soldier after a technical school and institute (he was too lazy to go to the military department), and nothing. He is still friends with many, already with families.
    By the way, it is written together more stupidly.
  • kalibr
    kalibr 10 December 2020 20: 45
    -3
    Sergei, well, you can't be so unconscious, God forgive me. And what am I talking about here from year to year? 80% own only 20% of the property (which is proven), and 20% - 80. Why? Because - and this has also been proven, they are not sufficiently educated, educated, socialized, conceived by drunkenness, etc. etc. This I express myself with tolerance. You said simply: stupid. Out of 10 people - 8. That's all. I didn’t come up with it, yes. This is science. Sociology is called. And there is also cultural studies. There is a lot ... There is Orwell. In a search engine, type: "Since the beginning of the Paleolithic era ... 1984 J. Orwell" and the quote you need will come out. You can be glad for your son. Not everyone is so lucky. The son of my friend was smashed in the head there with a stool ...
  • Aviator_
    Aviator_ 10 December 2020 21: 06
    0
    Vyacheslav, we are one year old, we studied in Soviet provincial schools, but your literacy surprises me: "зmemorable "? You know my opinion about social sciences. And don't drag Orwell's MI6 maintainer.
  • kalibr
    kalibr 10 December 2020 21: 28
    0
    Sergei! Literacy was always bad for me; proofreaders correct it. Orwell J. a man who fought with Franco in the International Brigades, a MI6 maintainer. Where did you get this? But even so, even if only personally by Churchill. He wrote everything correctly. In fact, this is a fictionalized depiction of the theory of elites by V. Pareto. Like it or not, it works. That is, practice confirms the theory, and your opinion about the social sciences ... well, let it comfort you that you have your own opinion. Having it increases self-esteem.
  • Aviator_
    Aviator_ 10 December 2020 21: 39
    +1
    Orwell J. the man who fought Franco in the International Brigades

    And after that, everything is allowed to him, has he earned an indulgence for life? The Trotskyists also fought there, so what? You see, I have a very bad attitude towards those who consider themselves superior to everyone around them. In my opinion, they have a hidden complex.
  • kalibr
    kalibr 10 December 2020 21: 48
    0
    Quote: Aviator_
    In my opinion, they have a hidden complex.

    It may very well be, Sergei. I know a schoolboy who was beaten at school ... I became an officer and rose to the rank of lieutenant colonel. This is what I know for sure. About one. And again you ... why did you use the word "everyone". Only those who are round and moral consider themselves above all. There are simply many strata, lines, and they all go up like a pyramid. Somewhere you are above, somewhere someone is above you. "Render God to God, and to Caesar what is Caesar's!" Like this. That is, to each according to his deeds - the most that neither is the socialist principle. You, too, are in many respects taller than many, although there were Kapitsa and Sakharov. And there was a physics teacher who held his hand behind my vibro-walker, looking for where to blow from it, because he could not go so easily. Violated Newton's law!
  • Aviator_
    Aviator_ 10 December 2020 21: 50
    +1
    And there was a physics teacher who kept his hand behind my vibro-walker, looking for where to blow from it, because he could not go so easily. Violated Newton's law!

    Well, the teacher did not know the features of dry friction, forgive him. I had to tactfully explain.
  • kalibr
    kalibr 10 December 2020 21: 54
    0
    Quote: Aviator_
    I had to tactfully explain.

    Yes, I explained and even drew a diagram on the board. Did not help! "Violates Newton's Law!" By the way, in the history of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union there were also many such! Especially former colonels are political officers ... Oh-oh-oh, you can't tell in a nutshell!
  • kalibr
    kalibr 10 December 2020 21: 49
    0
    Quote: Aviator_
    Trotskyists fought there too

    Sergei, I'm sorry to cling. And who is the Trotskyists "there"?
  • kalibr
    kalibr 10 December 2020 21: 37
    0
    And don't drag Orwell's MI6 content. [/ Quote] Why not drag it in? “The goals of these three groups are completely incompatible. The goal of the higher ones is to stay where they are. The purpose of the middle is to swap places with the highest; the goal of the lower - when they have a goal, because for the lower it is characteristic that they are crushed by hard work and only occasionally direct their gaze beyond the limits of everyday life - to abolish all differences and create a society where all people should be equal. Thus, throughout history, a struggle flares up again and again, in general terms it is always the same. For a long time, the higher ones seem to hold firmly in power, but sooner or later a moment comes when they lose either faith in themselves, or the ability to govern effectively, or both. Then they are overthrown by the middle ones, who have attracted the lower ones to their side by playing the role of fighters for freedom and justice. Having achieved their goal, they push the lower into their former slavery position and themselves become higher. In the meantime, new averages peel off from one of the other two groups or from both, and the struggle begins anew. Of the three groups, only the lowest never succeed in achieving their goals, even temporarily. "
    Take a look at our history. Yes, even at the end, look at two pages from the "Short Course on the History of the All-Union Communist Party (Bolsheviks)" that I applied for Privalov, compare ... think ... and you will see how close these two pages, written by Stalin and this passage written by Orwell!
  • kalibr
    kalibr 10 December 2020 19: 50
    -1
    Quote: Reptiloid
    Somewhere it was that relatives could rid the village, but did not want to.

    No need, Dima, fantasies, otherwise you will be like one "Mordvin" with his grandfather, a Polish general.
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 10 December 2020 20: 03
    +1
    I will try to search. If I don’t find it, I’ll tell you. But, what could have done more, and not done - as you said - was. We argued with you.
  • kalibr
    kalibr 10 December 2020 20: 09
    0
    Quote: Reptiloid
    I will try to search. If I don’t find it, I’ll tell you. But, what could have done more, and not done - as you said - was. We argued with you.

    Seek and find what is said in the Scripture. The more clicks you make, the better!
    Could "more" refer to another. That they were people of their era - that is, very ignorant in a number of issues. For example, in a healthy lifestyle ... although they wrote about this already then. "Who did I tell ?!" - the main pedagogical method.
  • kalibr
    kalibr 10 December 2020 19: 51
    -1
    Quote: Reptiloid
    Sometimes, the person tells not in his favor, and sometimes he falsifies.

    Dima, such as you falsify to me is not to respect myself.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • kalibr
    kalibr 10 December 2020 20: 06
    -4
    Sergei, you may be a good physicist and teacher, but here you descend to the level of Dima, but this is not necessary. Let me remind you of this: Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people. I think of you as a good specialist, that is, the level is above average, right? So don't sink too low ...
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 10 December 2020 21: 11
    +1
    Quote: kalibr
    Sergei, you may be a good physicist and teacher, but here you descend to the level of Dima, but this is not necessary. Let me remind you of this: Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people. I think of you as a good specialist, that is, the level is above average, right? So don't sink too low ...

    Oh, oh, why is that. Yes, you called half of the site for what shortcomings and in the eyes and for the eyes. Sometimes rude. And we sit to ourselves and talk quietly.
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 10 December 2020 21: 54
    0
    That's what it is! You never know who is discussing whom in the comments. And Vyacheslav Olegovich does a lot to discuss exactly him. And he himself discussed his loved ones.
    Why teach Sergei? He has a dissertation on a specific topic. He also happens to be at international events. I ----- read it on the net and watched !!!!!! good good good
  • kalibr
    kalibr 11 December 2020 15: 09
    0
    Quote: Reptiloid
    He also happens to be at international events.

    Ltd! I am smitten right through. It is luxurious to attend International events.
  • kalibr
    kalibr 10 December 2020 19: 48
    0
    Quote: Aviator_
    And what did you create

    A lot of things and besides mantras, Sergey ...
  • andrew42
    andrew42 10 December 2020 18: 39
    +2
    Caliber, well, suggest that the notorious "Sechin-Millers" exchange their income for "regional committee privileges." Let's see where they send you. Well, if only in words.
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 10 December 2020 19: 57
      0
      Today, yes, but at that time they would not have given up on them. Times change.
  • Svarog
    Svarog 9 December 2020 14: 32
    +7
    Quote: Cartalon
    There was no socialist formation under the USSR, there was state capitalism, you at least do not deceive yourself

    Have you even finished school? Have you lived in the USSR for at least a couple of days?
  • Fat
    Fat 9 December 2020 12: 30
    -4
    Quote: aleksejkabanets
    Name me at least one revolution that led to regression. Do not confuse with Maidans and other "color revolutions".

    The winning side calls the coup d'etat with the beautiful word "revolution". I hope this is understandable? The losing side will always call it a riot, coup, Maidan and other unflattering figures of speech. Therefore and only because of this all "revolutions" are successful (at least in the beginning)
    Quote: aleksejkabanets
    Let me remind you that revolution means a change in the socio-economic formation from regressive to progressive.
    .
    What kind of games with regression-progress and socio-economic formations?
    Let me remind you: "Revolution (from the late Latin revolutio - turn, coup, transformation, conversion) is a radical, radical, profound, qualitative change, a leap in the development of society, nature or knowledge, coupled with an open break with the previous state. A revolution as a qualitative leap in development, as faster and more significant changes, is distinguished both from evolution (where development occurs more slowly) and from reform (during which a change is made to any part of the system without affecting the existing foundations) ...
    in the development of society (including the economic one - the Neolithic revolution, the industrial revolution, the cultural revolution, the "green revolution", the demographic revolution, the "revolution of growing needs" and the political one - revolution as a method of seizing power ..
    ."
    1. aleksejkabanets
      aleksejkabanets 9 December 2020 20: 52
      -1
      Quote: Thick
      What a game with regression-progress and socio-economic formations ...

      Read about "the transition of quantitative changes to qualitative", apply dialectics, finally. Formal logic does not give the correct idea of ​​such a complex phenomenon.
      1. Fat
        Fat 9 December 2020 21: 43
        +2
        Quote: aleksejkabanets
        Quote: Thick
        What a game with regression-progress and socio-economic formations ...

        Read about "the transition of quantitative changes to qualitative", apply dialectics, finally. Formal logic does not give the correct idea of ​​such a complex phenomenon.

        Does informal logic give? Is dialectical materialism as informal as Heisenberg's uncertainty principle? smile
        Marx identified 5 OEF. Not all states in which there was a change of formation experienced this change. In any social formation, there are elements of "obsolete", "regressive", in your opinion, OEF.
        I wonder who, under developed communism, will distribute material goods, track emerging needs, for their timely satisfaction, the state or the computer?
  • apro
    apro 9 December 2020 04: 51
    +1
    The most important one is the population of the Russian Federation, not meeting modern challenges, not a desire to develop civil society, the era of individualism.
    1. Van 16
      Van 16 9 December 2020 04: 59
      +1
      "era of individualism"

      "The era of great dislike" (c)
  • Nazar
    Nazar 9 December 2020 05: 27
    +1
    Quote from the article: "However, usually, after a generation (20-30 years), all the" dots above and "were put. And after another generation, such a war became a long history." - Come on, how many years have passed since the civil war in the United States, more hundreds, and monuments to southerners generals began to be demolished quite recently, so that in the States, "reconciliation" is still a long way off, if at all possible.
  • Moskovit
    Moskovit 9 December 2020 06: 42
    +5
    Again, someone is to blame for our troubles. Except for ourselves.
    1. Lech from Android.
      Lech from Android. 9 December 2020 07: 01
      +1
      inspection of the car or cargo, if there is a suspicion that there are items withdrawn from civil circulation without special permission.

      At the same time, it is established that the police officer is not responsible for harm caused when the vehicle was opened, if the autopsy was carried out in accordance with the law.

      If, under the new law, a police officer suspects that you are carrying a drug in your car, under the new law he has the right to break it into trash and not bear any responsibility ... what is it ... will the driver be guilty again?
    2. Iskazi
      Iskazi 9 December 2020 07: 09
      +1
      Naturally, there are enemies all around ... and from the left and the right, and from above and from below ..., they do not allow to live like a human being ... and the worst thing is that they do not want to give up their own, they resist, and even that is, they strive to take away what power, what neighbors.
    3. bober1982
      bober1982 9 December 2020 08: 00
      -5
      On the eve of all the revolutionary events, our great father John of Kronstadt made the following prophecy: the Russian kingdom is not the Lord's kingdom, but the wide and spacious kingdom of Satan.
      That's the whole reason for the civil war.
      A hundred years have passed, nothing has changed.
    4. The comment was deleted.
  • nikvic46
    nikvic46 9 December 2020 07: 01
    0
    You can treat Zhvanetsky in different ways, but I liked one expression. "The purity of the soul is a sign of a bad Memory." Every person has moments in the past for which he is unbearably ashamed. So it is in history. Now it is fashionable to read that Peter the Great was an agent of the West. And Ivan the Terrible was not at all formidable. And Malyuta Skuratov was generally a darling. Now to the USSR. such an attitude as if it did not exist at all. What we have today is, as it were, created precisely in today. And in the past they only knew how to produce galoshes. This is the rise of the Cold Civil War. The author is a plus. Here clever people write about some kind of revolution. When the smell of this threat, the rich become surprisingly solidary. Directly internationalists.
  • bober1982
    bober1982 9 December 2020 07: 35
    -2
    If you walk down the street and look around, then no supporters of white and red are observed. The same thing, in the so-called labor collectives, there is not even talk on this topic. And, so - everywhere and everywhere. Those who want to climb the barricades, under someone's (?) Incitement - no, this is not Yerevan
    1. Lech from Android.
      Lech from Android. 9 December 2020 08: 30
      -2
      If you walk down the street and look around, then no supporters of white and red are observed.

      If you don't look around, you can get gopniks on the head from teenagers just like that.
      In Novosibirsk, four of them beat a taxi driver and rode her car for fun ... if such frostbitten ones are armed with revolutionary ideas and let their energy go to scrapping the old society, it will be bad for everyone.
      1. bober1982
        bober1982 9 December 2020 09: 21
        -1
        Quote: Lech from Android.
        from teenagers gopniks on the head just like that.

        Gopniks now, as they say, are not in trend, have sunk into summer. Girls do not like such people now.
        1. Jünger
          Jünger 9 December 2020 09: 26
          +4
          Quote: bober1982
          Girls don't like that now.

          They love. Girls at all times like funny, decisive and talkative. smile
          1. bober1982
            bober1982 9 December 2020 09: 27
            0
            And, cash, I would add.
            Girls love denyuzhku.
            1. bondrostov
              bondrostov 9 December 2020 20: 11
              +2
              I would say girls only love money and love .. and the older they are, the more
              1. 2 Level Advisor
                2 Level Advisor 10 December 2020 20: 07
                0
                it's you in vain .. inadequate, only her and love ... adequate not only her wink
  • bober1982
    bober1982 9 December 2020 08: 10
    0
    Yes, ahhh, very, very sad!
    Why so, you ask? I'll answer.
    Evil times - people turned into beasts, even into evil spirits.
  • Jünger
    Jünger 9 December 2020 08: 13
    0
    The aging white population will in the near future be crowded out by aggressive and youthful populations from the Caucasus and Asia.
    Foolish people who talk about reds and whites, Putin and oligarchs, instead of multiplying and leaving the land to their descendants, the newcomers will crush and use them up.
    So there will be no civil war, racial and religious wars are coming.
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 9 December 2020 10: 16
      -1
      Quote: Junger
      Foolish people who talk about reds and whites, Putin and oligarchs, instead of multiplying and leaving the land to their descendants, the newcomers will crush and use them up.

      ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
      1. Svarog
        Svarog 9 December 2020 14: 38
        +2
        Quote: kalibr
        Quote: Junger
        Foolish people who talk about reds and whites, Putin and oligarchs, instead of multiplying and leaving the land to their descendants, the newcomers will crush and use them up.

        ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

        If the Bolsheviks had not picked up the power, they would have let us go back in 1941 .. And now, thanks to the revolution, we are eating up the latest achievements .. So the revolution of 1917 turned out to be a great blessing.
        1. Jünger
          Jünger 9 December 2020 15: 52
          -3
          Quote: Svarog
          If the Bolsheviks had not picked up the power, then in 1941 we would have been allowed to spend

          If there were no Bolsheviks, then World War II would definitely not exist. So let's not sweep the blizzard.
          1. Svarog
            Svarog 9 December 2020 15: 53
            +1
            Quote: Junger
            Quote: Svarog
            If the Bolsheviks had not picked up the power, then in 1941 we would have been allowed to spend

            If there were no Bolsheviks, then World War II would definitely not exist. So let's not sweep the blizzard.

            Expand your thought .. share your knowledge of history?
            1. Jünger
              Jünger 9 December 2020 16: 01
              0
              No, thank you - to start a long argument with a stubborn communist on the topic that twice two is four - there is no desire and strength at all. request
              Rise a little above the templates that "we are always right in everything", "we are innocent victims", "we all owe everything", look at the question in perspective and everything will come to you by itself.
              Although, of course, it is unlikely.
              1. Svarog
                Svarog 9 December 2020 16: 07
                +1
                Quote: Junger
                No, thank you - starting a long argument with a stoned communist

                That's right, to argue, you need to have knowledge ... you don't have it ..
                So let's not sweep the snowstorm.

                It turns out you are sweeping a blizzard .. if you cannot argue ..
                Rise a little above the templates that "we are always right in everything", "we are innocent victims", "we all owe everything", look at the question in perspective and everything will come to you by itself.

                Before teaching others, read at least a couple of books and don't watch Kiselev ..
                1. Jünger
                  Jünger 9 December 2020 17: 26
                  0
                  Quote: Svarog
                  Read at least a couple of books before teaching others.

                  Why so few? smile
                  Quote: Svarog
                  and don't look at Kiselev ..

                  Is he against our Victory? Did not notice.
          2. andrew42
            andrew42 10 December 2020 18: 43
            0
            Of course there would be no WWII. But for a different reason. Because there would be no Russia. It would have already been divided, and Hitlerism would not need to be nurtured to mobilize "all Europe".
        2. Aviator_
          Aviator_ 9 December 2020 19: 02
          +1
          If the Bolsheviks had not picked up power, they would have let us flow in as early as 1941 ..

          We would have been consumed even earlier, during the Great Depression of 1929.
          1. Jünger
            Jünger 9 December 2020 22: 09
            0
            Why are you taking it so late, comrade? If it were not for the Bolsheviks, then Russ would have been bent under Batu.
    2. Moskovit
      Moskovit 9 December 2020 11: 32
      +6
      On the one hand, you are right. Everyone can clearly see how the Caucasian and Central Asian peoples are multiplying intensively. Due to them, we do not have such a decline in the population. By numbers. But on the other hand, the Russian person is not a cow or a ram, he will not reproduce for the sake of benefit. Or traditions. Moreover, we have few of them. They are Soviet rather than Russian. We have children for love. If there is social injustice, inequality. The foundations of the family have been destroyed, then there is nothing to expect from the Russians of an increase in the birth rate.
      1. Jünger
        Jünger 9 December 2020 12: 09
        0
        You yourself have shown the imperfection of the second side. And if this side does not change, that is, if the Soviets do not flow at an accelerated pace, then we are all kirdyk.
        Quote: Moskovit
        We have children for love

        The nature and laws of survival of large populations know nothing about love. Therefore, either to multiply and multiply, or another population will quickly replace those who give birth exclusively "for love".
        1. Moskovit
          Moskovit 9 December 2020 13: 10
          +2
          Can you confirm with your example?
          1. Jünger
            Jünger 9 December 2020 13: 25
            -1
            I'm just looking for a bride yet, now it's hard with this - I need a pious, pretty and racially consistent. wink Now, to find a good one, you have to wear a lot of boots.
            As soon as I get married, I'll give birth to five at once, I promise.
            But I have nothing to do with it at all - the truth does not depend on me or on you - it is in itself. I just voiced it, and why do you translate it into individuals.
            1. Moskovit
              Moskovit 9 December 2020 14: 30
              +2
              You see, you have to start with yourself. Personal example is the most effective. The communists went into battle for their ideas. White Guards for their own. So you prove it.
              1. Jünger
                Jünger 9 December 2020 14: 38
                0
                Some kind of crap, sorry. If a Muslim tied with TNT blows himself up in a crowded place, has he proved to you? Do you feel the truth behind him?
                Truth is an objective reality that does not depend on who goes into battle for it. Problems, they are with the one who goes into battle, but it turns out that in fact is not for the truth.
                Although you have some kind of reality of your own, it seems
            2. Sergey Oreshin
              Sergey Oreshin 9 December 2020 18: 03
              +3
              Uh, my friend, I don't want to prophesy, but with this approach you will look for gray hair. I have such a friend: a helluva lot of believers, everyone is looking for such a person to be "pious, pretty and racially self-possessed." 36 years old - still a virgin ...
              Because these are the girls - they only live in novels. There are none in real life and never were. Neither 100, nor 200, nor 300 years, nor 1000.
              It's just that at the beginning of the 20th century, when you would have turned 18-20 years old, your dad would have brought you a maid and said: "So, Pafnut, I am our bride, it was agreed with her relatives - blow into the bathhouse, we will marry you the day after tomorrow!" And that's it, no objections are accepted. What, the fiance is fat, ryaba and the friend Mitka swore that he was touching her boobs on Ivan-Kupala? - Yes, who are you to argue with your father, right now, like a whip, I will grab you, I will lower three skins! Father said - to church means to church!
              That's how it was, no one wandered around, and did not argue with parents
              1. Jünger
                Jünger 9 December 2020 18: 30
                +2
                I completely agree with you, dear friend. laughing Speak wisely.
                And I myself am for the parents to forcefully marry and as early as possible. I like it all was not up to this. And the parents were spoiled by the accursed Soviet past and could not force it. smile
                But in the old days, all brides under one standard followed moral rules - give or take, and it was not particularly difficult to choose. And the mobility in society was low - you always know your parents. And now you will understand what kind of person - either a walker, or not very much.
                And my gray hair appeared at the age of 30 already, so it passed. smile
                I will not marry, I will not marry like this - that is not happiness. It is better not to marry than to mess with for life, do not understand who to tear your hair with.
                1. Sergey Oreshin
                  Sergey Oreshin 9 December 2020 19: 08
                  +2
                  I agree with you, the only thing about high moral standards in the past is still an exaggeration, that era should not be idealized either, both men and women were all sorts, both walking and normal. Simply - yes, the mobility was small and, in principle, everyone knew about everyone
      2. Serg65
        Serg65 9 December 2020 12: 42
        +1
        Quote: Moskovit
        But on the other hand, the Russian person is not a cow or a ram, he will not reproduce for the sake of benefit. Or traditions. Moreover, we have few of them.

        Only 60 years ago, 4-5 children in Russian families were considered the norm .... and about no ... "to produce poverty" and did not even think ... Europe and America won, congratulations !!!
        Quote: Moskovit
        If there is social injustice, inequality. The foundations of the family have been destroyed

        This has been happening for 100 years, but they do not want to give birth for the next 30 years, and who is to blame? Greed, envy and lack of intelligence are to blame, but not some uncle !!!
        1. Moskovit
          Moskovit 9 December 2020 13: 11
          +2
          Who's to blame? Democrats? Liberals? You probably have 5 children
          1. Serg65
            Serg65 9 December 2020 13: 25
            0
            Quote: Moskovit
            Who's to blame? Democrats? Liberals?

            People, Russian people ... it's their own fault .... I want to live for myself ... who shoved this idea into our little heads? Democrats? Liberals? No ... the usual greed and envy!
            Quote: Moskovit
            You probably have 5 children

            No four, the last one is disabled and I am glad and grateful to him ... it was he who made me look at the world with different eyes!
            1. Jünger
              Jünger 9 December 2020 14: 09
              -1
              You need to put up a monument. Lifetime i mean smile And let them go everywhere out of line.
            2. Moskovit
              Moskovit 9 December 2020 14: 35
              +3
              May God grant your child happiness and health. I understand in part what it is.
              I have three. Yes, you will not live for your pleasure, but now the level of technology greatly simplifies the life of parents. Therefore, I would not say that I overstrained myself.
              You cannot remake society. So there must be another way out.
              1. Serg65
                Serg65 10 December 2020 07: 27
                +2
                Quote: Moskovit
                So there must be another way out.

                Probably there is this other way out. But where is he? One of the factors behind the decline in the birth rate, in my opinion, is the growing urbanization. If the state can organize a reverse outflow of the population, the situation is quite possible and will change ... not immediately, but it will change.
              2. Serg65
                Serg65 10 December 2020 07: 31
                +2
                Quote: Moskovit
                May God grant your child happiness and health

                Thank you very much!
        2. Svarog
          Svarog 9 December 2020 14: 41
          +4
          If there is social injustice, inequality. The foundations of the family have been destroyed

          This has been happening for 100 years, but they do not want to give birth for the next 30 years, and who is to blame? Greed, envy and lack of intelligence are to blame, but not some uncle !!!

          How many years ..? inequality, social injustice, we have 100 years ago .. and people have no confidence in the future, that is why they don’t give birth .. don’t put an owl on a globe here ..
          1. Serg65
            Serg65 10 December 2020 07: 23
            +2
            Quote: Svarog
            What 100 years ..?

            what Those. in the 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s of the last century lived much better than now ??? And from a happy life gave birth to many children?
            Quote: Svarog
            inequality, social injustice in our country for 30 years.

            Come on! And 40, 50 years ago there was equality and social justice?
            Quote: Svarog
            Don't put an owl on a globe here

            laughing Well, this is your favorite pastime! I don’t want to work, but give me everything, because you all owe me nothing !!!! laughing good
        3. Sergey Oreshin
          Sergey Oreshin 9 December 2020 18: 04
          0
          60 years ago - this is 1960. In the 60s, on average, families had 2-3 children, 4-5 were already considered a great rarity
          1. Serg65
            Serg65 10 December 2020 07: 41
            +2
            Quote: Sergey Oreshin
            4-5 - were already considered a rarity

            My father had four of us.
            1. Sergey Oreshin
              Sergey Oreshin 10 December 2020 10: 23
              +1
              I say - "on average". And so in some families and in the Brezhnev time there were 7-10 children, but very rarely
      3. andrew42
        andrew42 10 December 2020 18: 50
        -1
        No offense, dear interlocutors, but, as they say, "noble animals do not breed in captivity." Or they reproduce but very badly. That's the answer to all the fertility riddles. Whatever one may say, but the animal principle in man has a place to be, and this place is rather big. The main reasons for the low birth rate - there is no confidence in the future, plus, a high level of latent rejection of the “state ideology of“ bubble supremacy. ”People simply don’t want to give birth in THIS state, intuitively, they don’t want to give birth to servants. and maids for the heirs of the "Putin-Sechin-Millers", as well as slaves for the "Chubais-Gref-Kudrins".
        1. Serg65
          Serg65 11 December 2020 07: 33
          +3
          Quote: andrew42
          The main reasons for the low birth rate - there is no confidence in the future, plus, a high level of latent rejection of the “state ideology of“ bubble supremacy. ”People simply don’t want to give birth in THIS state, intuitively, they don’t want to give birth to servants. and maids for the heirs of the "Putin-Sechin-Millers", as well as slaves for the "Chubais-Gref-Kudrins".

          Ooo, are you a fan of Vodonaeva and David Benatar? But I wonder, when you become an old grandfather, who will give you a glass of water?
    3. Serg65
      Serg65 9 December 2020 12: 37
      +1
      Quote: Junger
      Foolish people who talk about reds and whites, Putin and oligarchs, instead of multiplying and leaving the land to their descendants, the newcomers will crush and use them up.

      Golden words! good
  • Stirbjorn
    Stirbjorn 9 December 2020 08: 32
    +4
    Russia followed the same path in Soviet times. In the 1920s – 1930s, many civil war heroes were still alive, even though the whole country went through a terrible catastrophe. By the 1960s, the romanticization of that era began. The first Bolsheviks lost their severity and harshness and turned into people who went through fire and water.
    Very messy somehow. "Quiet Don" is not at all like that, clumsily describes the events of that time. And, by the way, Comrade Stalin himself allowed him to be published!
  • New Year day
    New Year day 9 December 2020 08: 38
    +3
    ... an attempt to ideologically split Russian society again into “whites” and “reds”.

    Who to split? It was. But now that the "whites" have come to power, what should the "red" do?
    1. Lech from Android.
      Lech from Android. 9 December 2020 08: 51
      0
      what to do "red"?

      Objectively, there are more Reds and they are still disorganized ... as soon as they begin to unite into one large organized force, the current white power will be under the threat of existence ... then an interesting time will begin. hi
      1. Jünger
        Jünger 9 December 2020 09: 15
        -6
        Quote: Lech from Android.
        as soon as they start to unite into one big organized force

        The Reds now are mostly old people or dead people who cannot achieve anything at the current time. As it should be for weak people - instead of looking for the reason in themselves, they begin to blame the environment, the system, Putin and America and seek consolation in the "bright" past, in which they would allegedly be assessed and allocated a salary of 120 rubles, for which they could plump steadily after work.
        I mean, they can only unite while sitting on a bench with vodka.
        That is, they cannot unite and an interesting time for them will begin when cirrhosis will have to be treated.
        Yes, and you are right - there are more reds now, and there will be even more.
        1. Lech from Android.
          Lech from Android. 9 December 2020 09: 34
          +5
          I mean, they can only unite while sitting on a bench with vodka.
          Well, then I got to the point if you evaluate the reds like that ... smile it's nice when whites underestimate the reds, believing that the intelligence of whites is higher than that of the reds, which means you can beat your brother in vulnerable spots for your arrogance ..
          1. Jünger
            Jünger 9 December 2020 09: 45
            -6
            Quote: Lech from Android.
            nice when whites underestimate reds

            It's great that I could please you.
            Quote: Lech from Android.
            then you can beat your brother in vulnerable spots for your arrogance ..

            Let's hit, but if I were in the place of the Reds, I would first learn not to pee past the toilet. Your brother has always had a problem with that. love
            1. Lech from Android.
              Lech from Android. 9 December 2020 09: 51
              +4
              in place of the reds, I would first learn not to urinate past the toilet. Your brother always had a problem with that.

              You still do not know how your nobleness vomits past the toilet after drinking in some sort of outhouse ... with which your brother always has problems ... learn to drink first first before talking about the reds.
              I'm not talking about corporate parties with prostitutes somewhere in Courchevel ... natural parasites, ugh on them. hi
              1. Jünger
                Jünger 9 December 2020 09: 56
                -8
                "Comrade", whites don't drink at all. "Russian means sober" - have you heard? smile
                But Soviet means drunk. In any case, it is impossible for a communist without booze.
                1. Lech from Android.
                  Lech from Android. 9 December 2020 10: 05
                  +2
                  ", whites don't drink at all.
                  Yes, really ... your honor amused.
                  https://lenta.ru/articles/2014/01/20/nikolay/

                  According to family tradition, the heir went through something like military practice in the guard. First - in the Preobrazhensky regiment, then - in the Life Guards hussars. Here, too, not without an anecdote. The hussars, in full accordance with the legend, were famous for their unrestrained drunkenness. At one time, when the regiment commander was Grand Duke Nikolai Nikolaevich the Younger (grandson of Nicholas I, cousin of Nicholas II's father), the hussars even developed a whole ritual. Drank to the hell, they ran naked into the night - and howled, depicting a pack of wolves. And so - until the barman brought them a trough of vodka, from which the werewolves calmed down and went to sleep. So serving the heir is likely fun.
                  1. Jünger
                    Jünger 9 December 2020 10: 12
                    -4
                    Comrade, what is described is an atavism and happened even before historical materialism. Times have changed. In addition, the heir was German and the rest of the hussars, perhaps too. laughing
                    1. Lech from Android.
                      Lech from Android. 9 December 2020 10: 18
                      +2
                      Times have changed ... but not human nature.
                      As soon as a person reaches for unlimited power and money, the devil settles inside him with his truly unlimited thirst for blood and violence against those who are below him in position.
                      In our time, this is clearly visible. hi
                      1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 9 December 2020 11: 53
                        +4
                        Quote: Lech from Android.
                        As soon as a person reaches for unlimited power and money, the devil settles inside him with his truly unlimited thirst for blood and violence

                        How do you know this? As far as I understand, you didn’t get to the power or money, and this does not threaten you. Did Forbes tell you about the "devil" or the ass from the next series about the crying rich?
                      2. Fat
                        Fat 9 December 2020 13: 08
                        -1
                        Quote: Lech from Android.
                        Times have changed ... but not human nature.
                        As soon as a person reaches for unlimited power and money, the devil settles inside him with his truly unlimited thirst for blood and violence against those who are below him in position.
                        In our time, this is clearly visible. hi

                        Yes. Noticeable. A slave does not dream of becoming free, he dreams of becoming a slave owner.
                        All systems are based exclusively on slave psychology, which includes slave-owning.
                        Even private entrepreneurs, for the most part, are the same slaves. But they are slaves not so much to someone directly, as slaves to their cause.
                        How is enslavement going on now?
                        The most common way is to work. Yes, yes, work, it even has a basic RAB root at its core. Even the one who thinks that he is working for himself and his income or interest, he does not run away from slavery. He is the same as everyone else, he just has a slightly longer chain to which he is chained, but nothing more.
                        The second way is ideological involvement. There is a constant confrontation of ideas in the world, and behind this there is a confrontation between individual slave owners for the possession of slaves, people who, at their choice, put on chains and follow the idea, or rather, the slave owner, who uses this idea. This includes religious ideas, social ideas and government ideas. Even some technical ideas fall under slavery. But various philosophical or ideological ideas may not get here, exactly until the moment when they begin to be used as a means of attracting slaves, or rather followers.
                    2. tank64rus
                      tank64rus 15 December 2020 18: 13
                      0
                      Dear this is from the memoirs of Count Ignatiev of the Life Guardsman. Six Orders in just one Japanese War. He saved Russia 250 million francs as a military agent for the Russian mission in France in World War I. A unique person. Scout from God.
                2. Sugar Honeyovich
                  Sugar Honeyovich 9 December 2020 13: 33
                  +2
                  The Whites assert exactly the opposite: “they were especially offended when K. noted that a drunken officer was impossible in the Red Army, because any commissar or communist would shoot him right away; here in Petropavlovsk there is such drunkenness that one is ashamed of the Russian army” (Budberg) ... drinks
                  1. Jünger
                    Jünger 9 December 2020 16: 05
                    -2
                    White out of self-criticism asserted so. Here is the truth in fact -

                    Deputy Dzerzhinsky - Chekist Peters, at that time the former Cheka plenipotentiary in the North Caucasus and Commissioner of the North Caucasian Railway, reported to the Central Committee: "Budenny's army is decomposing every day. Robberies, drunkenness, stay in the headquarters of suspicious women, according to rumors, were cases of murder of the most conscientious comrades. Budyonny ceases to reckon with anyone. The atrocities committed by him on the railway are absolutely incredible: continuous seizure of fuel, steam locomotives, emergency train cars, theft of trophy property. Each part is followed by the tail of cars filled with women and looted property ".

                    And the communists did not shoot them, because then the entire Red Army would have to shoot.
                    1. Sugar Honeyovich
                      Sugar Honeyovich 9 December 2020 16: 15
                      +3
                      [quote = Jünger] White out of self-criticism said so
                      [/ quote
                      The facts were stated. Everything is relative.
                      We have an eyewitness testimony in our family: "The Reds are the army, the whites are the gang."
                      1. Jünger
                        Jünger 9 December 2020 16: 23
                        -5
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        We have an eyewitness testimony in our family: "The Reds are the army, the whites are the gang."

                        What a family, such are eyewitnesses and testimonies.
                      2. Sugar Honeyovich
                        Sugar Honeyovich 9 December 2020 18: 06
                        +3
                        Of course. The most real.
              2. Bolt cutter
                Bolt cutter 9 December 2020 23: 35
                0
                "Russian means sober" - have you heard?
                Grandfather received a full chest of medals for two wars. And he was not averse to a drink. So he is not rus belay
        2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 9 December 2020 10: 27
          0
          Quote: Lech from Android.
          , which means you can hit your brother in vulnerable spots for your arrogance ..

          Sharikov, do your direct business - go catch the cats. Save this cheap reds versus whites romance for retirees bored in the line at the clinic. Enough to think of yourself as Pavka Korchagin - this guy is half-starving and eggs in ice water in the name of an idea, he was building a narrow-gauge railway, and you cling to your credit hundai and mortgage kopeck piece in sleeping bags.
          What the fuck is a riot, what a revolution? What are the "red-white"? What are you raving about, dear ones? The consumer society will not climb the barricades for fear of losing its small, but tangibly material things. And to "take away" and "divide" from these kitchen insurgents, firstly, the guts are thin, and secondly, they certainly need someone who will become the head of the crowd and who can then be blamed for the failure. And trample, of course. And there are no such leaders and are not expected. And any local spontaneous burlesque can be easily stopped by derzhimorda, whom the same protestors support with their taxes.
          1. kalibr
            kalibr 9 December 2020 10: 49
            -3
            Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
            Sharikov, do your direct business - go catch the cats. Leave this cheap reds versus whites romance for retirees bored in line at the clinic.

            Bravo! You couldn't say better!
            1. apro
              apro 10 December 2020 02: 30
              +1
              Quote: kalibr
              Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
              Sharikov, do your direct business - go catch the cats. Leave this cheap reds versus whites romance for retirees bored in line at the clinic.

              Bravo! You couldn't say better!

              What it reminds of Professor Preobrazhensky .... clever. Well-read ... but not ours.
          2. Lech from Android.
            Lech from Android. 9 December 2020 10: 58
            +1
            Professor Epitafievich I am like an eyesoresmile I won't give you a quiet life ... otherwise, you understand, they sat down in their offices as many as 10 rooms and think that they are smarter than everyone.
            1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
              Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 9 December 2020 11: 05
              +1
              Quote: Lech from Android.
              Professor Epitafievich I am like a thorn in your eyesmile I won't give you a quiet life ... otherwise, you understand, they sat down in their offices as many as 10 rooms and think that they are smarter than everyone.

              Well, for you, Sharikov, paradise is prepared by default - and it says:
              all dogs go to heaven
              Bon voyage!
              laughing
              1. Lech from Android.
                Lech from Android. 9 December 2020 11: 10
                +2
                all dogs go to heaven

                It's nice to deal with a cultured person ... at least you can talk ... otherwise, in response, one mate and rewind ... at least one professor speaks culturally. smile
                1. The comment was deleted.
        3. kalibr
          kalibr 9 December 2020 10: 51
          -4
          Quote: Lech from Android.
          you can hit your brother in weak spots for your arrogance ..

          Look at the flag on the Kremlin and the coat of arms on coins ...
    2. kalibr
      kalibr 9 December 2020 10: 17
      -2
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      Objectively, there are more Reds and they are still disorganized ... as soon as they begin to unite into one large organized force, the current white power will be under the threat of existence ... then an interesting time will begin.

      Come on, stop telling anecdotes ...
      1. Lech from Android.
        Lech from Android. 9 December 2020 10: 29
        +3
        Come on, stop telling anecdotes ...

        What ... smile suddenly in a few years, conventionally speaking, a new party will appear in which there will be both his own Lenin and his comrade Stalin and Trotsky ... then there will be an anecdote.
        30 years ago, about those who would say that the USSR would collapse in a couple of months, I would also call them clowns ... but you see how history turned ... we now live in a purely bourgeois state.
        1. kalibr
          kalibr 9 December 2020 10: 48
          -1
          Quote: Lech from Android.
          relatively speaking, a new party will appear in which there will be both your Lenin and your comrade Stalin and Trotsky ... that's when

          This is the biggest anecdote!
          1. Lech from Android.
            Lech from Android. 9 December 2020 11: 04
            0
            This is the biggest anecdote!

            What a childish naivety or how do you express the words of a naive child smile ... do you really think that the power that has now been established in the Kremlin will be eternal ?.
            Everything flows, everything changes, the objective laws of history will sweep away anyone who gets in their way.
            1. kalibr
              kalibr 9 December 2020 11: 14
              0
              Quote: Lech from Android.
              Everything flows, everything changes, the objective laws of history will sweep away anyone who gets in their way.

              You quote me from the textbook on history?
              1. Lech from Android.
                Lech from Android. 9 December 2020 11: 21
                +3
                You quote me from the textbook on history?

                No, I looked at the last two pages about which you said ... you can’t argue all right.

                as soon as the Bolsheviks break away from the masses and lose contact with them, they should be covered with bureaucratic rust, so that they lose all strength and become an empty shell.

                I can say the same about United Russia.
                This party broke away from the masses ... lost touch with them and will inevitably disappear into oblivion ... not immediately, of course, but when the burden of accumulated problems will pull it to the political bottom of the deepest gorge of oblivion. hi
                1. kalibr
                  kalibr 9 December 2020 15: 37
                  -2
                  Quote: Lech from Android.
                  I can say the same about United Russia.

                  And this applies to any party!
          2. bober1982
            bober1982 9 December 2020 11: 12
            +1
            Quote: kalibr
            This is the biggest anecdote!

            This is not a joke.
            Lenin is more alive than all the living.
          3. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
            Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 9 December 2020 11: 16
            +3
            Quote: kalibr
            This is the biggest anecdote!

            not this way. This is pronounced with the intonations of a drunken feldgurat Katz - "What, is it a bad joke?" (C)
        2. Fat
          Fat 9 December 2020 17: 14
          +2
          Quote: Lech from Android.
          And what ... suddenly, in a few years, conditionally speaking, a new party will appear in which there will be both his own Lenin and his comrade Stalin and Trotsky ... then there will be an anecdote.
          30 years ago, about those who would say that the USSR would collapse in a couple of months, I would also call them clowns ... but you see how history turned ... we now live in a purely bourgeois state.

          For example, I am completely at a loss to determine in what state I live. It is not completely bourgeois and is no longer a state of workers and peasants. The development of Marx's theory is deep ... And not because it is impossible, there is simply no one ...
          Look at what a high level of development of the productive forces. The mode of production is completely indistinct (and this is the basis), not a single theoretician of the 19th - early 20th centuries, even in a dream, would have dreamed of the opportunity to print a house, a bridge and even food on a printer ...
          So, let's give your new Lenin, Stalin and, of course, Trotsky
  • bober1982
    bober1982 9 December 2020 09: 26
    +1
    Quote: Silvestr
    But now that the "whites" have come to power, what should the "red" do?

    And what should the monarchists and Trotskyists do? Where to go? They, monarchists and Trotskyists, seem to be neither white nor red.
  • Boris55
    Boris55 9 December 2020 09: 55
    -3
    Quote: Silvestr
    when "whites" came to power what should "red" do?

    There is no separation between white and red. There is a division into oppressors and oppressed.

    There were tsarist officers who created the Red Army and saved Russia, and there were white officers who went into the service of the Entente, and after Hitler, that there was no Russia. There are people whom one or the other managed to call, and they served there.

    So the question: "Are you for the Reds or for the Whites?" Is not valid.
    The question should be put like this: "Are you for Russia or against Russia?"

    All revolutions are carried out with money from abroad and in the interests of abroad.
    The local bourgeois are happy with everything, but the people are not capable of self-organization.
    Not in any country, not a single revolution (including color) brought happiness to the people.

    The social system must be changed in an evolutionary way.
    1. Lech from Android.
      Lech from Android. 9 December 2020 10: 09
      +1
      Are you for Russia or not?

      I am for a Russia in which there are no whites or reds, not oppressed or oppressors.
      I am against Russia in which someone becomes higher than the people having received undivided power and indulgence for any action against the people ... this is my principled position. hi
      1. kalibr
        kalibr 9 December 2020 10: 25
        -2
        Quote: Lech from Android.
        I am against Russia in which someone becomes higher than the people having received undivided power and indulgence for any action against the people ... this is my principled position.

        Words of a naive child!
        1. Lech from Android.
          Lech from Android. 9 December 2020 10: 32
          +1
          Words of a naive child!
          Well, what do you offer in return?
          To side with the Whites or the Reds? ... I do not want either one or the other ... I do not want to be in the position of the heroes of the Quiet Don. (Sholokhov) hi
          1. kalibr
            kalibr 9 December 2020 10: 46
            -2
            Quote: Lech from Android.
            To side with the Whites or the Reds? ... I do not want either one or the other ... I do not want to be in the position of the heroes of the Quiet Don. (Sholokhov)

            Increase your wealth, take care of your health, and if it comes to shots, have a weapon and shoot first and accurately!
            1. Lech from Android.
              Lech from Android. 9 December 2020 11: 13
              +1
              Increase your wealth, take care of your health, and if it comes to shots, have a weapon and shoot first and accurately!

              Good words ... just shoot in the back of the head of your brother or comrade who does not share my views hi I categorically find myself.
              1. Jünger
                Jünger 9 December 2020 11: 17
                -1
                Quote: Lech from Android.
                ..only to shoot my brother or comrade in the back of the head who do not share my views, I categorically turn out

                What kind of communist are you after that? You are a soft-hearted philosophizing philistine / intillichent of those that destroyed the Union.
                1. Lech from Android.
                  Lech from Android. 9 December 2020 11: 26
                  +2
                  What kind of communist are you after that? You are a soft-hearted philosophizing philistine / intillichent of those that destroyed the Union.

                  Well you are an interesting person belay ... if a person is a communist, he is obliged to kill his child or mother by order of the Communist Party ... the very statement of the question
                  is incorrect. hi
                  1. Jünger
                    Jünger 9 December 2020 11: 31
                    -3
                    Quote: Lech from Android.
                    he is obliged to kill his child or mother by order of the Communist Party ..

                    Naturally. Have you forgotten about Pavlik Morozov? Or about the large brethren, denying their own parents, in the "glorious" 30s?
                    These wonderful people built our wonderful USSR - a beacon for the whole world, and soft-bodied humane intiligents, sitting in the kitchens, destroyed it.
                    So sharpen the ax - soon you will be chopping relatives.
                    1. Lech from Android.
                      Lech from Android. 9 December 2020 11: 34
                      0
                      Have you forgotten about Pavlik Morozov?

                      I haven’t forgotten ... with Pavlik, in general, interesting details crawled out. They made an icon out of him ... although there was a simple everyday thing. hi
                    2. Jünger
                      Jünger 9 December 2020 11: 38
                      0
                      And who made the icon - humanoids? Soviet power did your beloved Dzhugashvili. This means that everything is as it should be for a communist.
                    3. Lech from Android.
                      Lech from Android. 9 December 2020 11: 42
                      0
                      And who made the icon - humanoids? Soviet power did your beloved Dzhugashvili. This means that everything is as it should be for a communist.
                      Any power sins with this ... did not the royal power powder the brains of the common people about God's chosen anointed ones?
                      Everyone has their own skeletons in the closet.
                    4. Jünger
                      Jünger 9 December 2020 11: 53
                      -1
                      Quote: Lech from Android.
                      did not the tsarist power puff the brains of the common people about God's chosen anointed sovereigns?

                      If she did powder, she had every right to do so. Tsarist / princely power created Russia and the Russian people and had deep reasons to hang any noodles on their ears.
                      As the peasant is free to plow on his cow, and is free to slaughter it, so the Tsar-Sovereign is with the people.
              2. Sugar Honeyovich
                Sugar Honeyovich 9 December 2020 14: 09
                +2
                Quote: Junger
                Have you forgotten about Pavlik Morozov?

                Pavlik and his other children were abandoned by their father. But, as far as we know, he was not a communist, but quite the opposite.
        2. kalibr
          kalibr 9 December 2020 11: 36
          -2
          Quote: Lech from Android.
          I categorically find myself.

          Brother doesn't need to. The brother should be on your side, the side of the family ... and everyone else will have to. Otherwise they will shoot you-ha-ha!
          1. Lech from Android.
            Lech from Android. 9 December 2020 11: 43
            0
            Otherwise they will shoot you-ha-ha!

            Such is the civil war ... whoever is not with us is against us. hi
  • Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
    Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 9 December 2020 12: 26
    +1
    Quote: kalibr
    Words of a naive child!

    a child would be forgiven. But when such utopian nonsense, hoping to be licked in the forum, is carried by an uncle 40+ ... an alarming symptom.
  • Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
    Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 9 December 2020 11: 21
    0
    Quote: Lech from Android.
    I am for a Russia in which there are no whites or reds, not oppressed or oppressors.

    - And free horses and people will walk on the ground!
    - Why people? Better to let the horses alone.
    - He's a provocateur. Kill him.
    (C)
    1. Lech from Android.
      Lech from Android. 9 December 2020 11: 31
      -1
      ―Do you know, Paragraph Epitafievich, if you were not a European luminary and you would not have stood up for you in the most outrageous way, you should have been arrested.

  • DNS-a42
    DNS-a42 9 December 2020 10: 19
    -1
    Quote: Boris55
    The question should be put like this: "Are you for Russia or against Russia?"
    The question should be posed as follows: "For Soviet Russia or for bourgeois Russia?"

    Quote: Boris55
    All revolutions are carried out with money from abroad and in the interests of abroad.
    And Russia finances foreign revolutions, is that so?

    And by the way, who told Lenin? Germans, British, Americans? What do they write in modern manuals of guardians?

    Quote: Boris55
    The local bourgeois are happy with everything, but the people are not capable of self-organization.
    The anti-Soviet people love to belittle their people.

    Quote: Boris55
    Not in any country, not a single revolution (including color) brought happiness to the people.
    Pure untruth.

    Quote: Boris55
    The social system must be changed in an evolutionary way.
    An old and rotten liberal mantra.
    1. Boris55
      Boris55 9 December 2020 10: 46
      0
      Quote: DNS-a42
      The question should be posed as follows: "For Soviet Russia or for bourgeois Russia?"

      The main thing is that Russia would be, and what it is, Soviet or bourgeois, we will figure it out anyway.

      Quote: DNS-a42
      The anti-Soviet people love to belittle their people.

      There are quite objective reasons for this. One of them is that people are not given the knowledge of governance.

      Quote: DNS-a42
      The old and rotten liberal mantra

      One of the shortcomings of all revolutions is the cadres who, even after the violent change of power, remain the same in the localities, there is simply no one to replace them. And in order to prepare your own, it takes time. It is for this reason that the Bolshevik Party united with the Trotskyists.



      Quote: DNS-a42
      An old and rotten liberal mantra.

      If you do not know how to do this, this does not mean that it cannot be done.
      1. kalibr
        kalibr 9 December 2020 12: 30
        -4
        Quote: Boris55
        One of them is that people are not given the knowledge of governance.

        What nonsense! Buy my textbook "Public Opinion Management Technologies" - it is not secret. There it is written in detail how to hang people on their ears so that they also enjoy it!
        1. Aviator_
          Aviator_ 9 December 2020 19: 10
          +3
          Buy my textbook "Public Opinion Management Technologies"

          The advertisement is engine of the trade!
          1. kalibr
            kalibr 10 December 2020 08: 44
            0
            Of course, Sergey, there is an opportunity, why not use it? Your hand is the master!
        2. Boris55
          Boris55 10 December 2020 07: 52
          +1
          Quote: kalibr
          Buy my textbook "Public Opinion Management Technologies"

          Management knowledge is also available on the Internet.
          The reason is that from school we are taught to answer questions, but they are not taught to ask questions. By the end of the training, the majority have discouraged the desire for independent mastery of knowledge. The common people are put in such conditions that they have no time to think about the "stars", to comprehend the basics of government - all thoughts are about their daily bread. The entire state system, not only in our country, is purposefully built for this. As soon as the knowledge of the common people equals the knowledge of the "elite", such a people will be impossible to separate into two Volga, it will not be possible to exploit one by another.
          1. kalibr
            kalibr 10 December 2020 08: 45
            +1
            Quote: Boris55
            The common people are put in such conditions that they have no time to think about the "stars", to comprehend the basics of government - all thoughts are about their daily bread.

            Orwell J. wrote about this, and wrote well!
      2. Serg65
        Serg65 9 December 2020 13: 02
        +3
        Quote: Boris55
        Exactly because of this reason Bolshevik party united with Trotskyists.

        Bravo Boris !!!! good ... laughed heartily !!
    2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 9 December 2020 12: 38
      +2
      Quote: DNS-a42
      The question should be posed as follows: "For Soviet Russia or for bourgeois Russia?"

      go further, my dear fellow, rake dealers are not needed here. laughing
      And what the fuck are the bourgeois in Russia? Where? The government is doing everything to kill the middle class, because it sees it as a threat to itself. Why are Voltaireans and troublemakers needed? We need manipulated marginals like "lekhi from android", in whom passionarity is switched on by a toggle switch controlled from the TV.
  • Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
    Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 9 December 2020 16: 23
    +2
    Quote: Boris55
    So the question: "Are you for the Reds or for the Whites?" Is not valid.
    The question should be put like this: "Are you for Russia or against Russia?"

    but I am against such a statement of the question - tk. I hate simplists with their black and white matrix. Therefore, I am "against Russia"?
  • Sling cutter
    Sling cutter 10 December 2020 18: 28
    +5
    Quote: Boris55
    The social system must be changed in an evolutionary way.

    Boris, are you still going to assert that something worthwhile can come from Eboputinism?
  • Serg65
    Serg65 9 December 2020 12: 44
    +2
    Quote: Silvestr
    what to do "red"?

    laughing take back the human image!
  • A. Privalov
    A. Privalov 9 December 2020 10: 05
    -1
    Well, yes, the wind blows due to the trees swaying!
    You should not confuse the CAUSES with the EFFECT, otherwise, it turns out what is called "rewriting History".
    It was the desire of the Bolsheviks by any means, primarily violent, to stay in power, establish the dictatorship of the party and build a new society, based on their theoretical principles, that made civil war inevitable.

    Causes of the Civil War:
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 9 December 2020 10: 29
      0
      Dear Alexander! I have a Short Course in the History of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks, published in 1945, ed. Comrade Stalin. I read it on duty from 1982 to 91, but yesterday I reread it again out of interest. There ... In general, at the end it describes why and how the USSR should inevitably collapse. Only in 45 did no one think that this was a prophetic description of our future! If you can, get to it ... and read the last two pages.
      1. Lech from Android.
        Lech from Android. 9 December 2020 10: 42
        +1
        Is this a rarity? hi .

        I just can't understand what is the difference between the Bolsheviks and the Communists. what
        1. Boris55
          Boris55 9 December 2020 11: 00
          0
          Quote: Lech from Android.
          I just can't understand what is the difference between the Bolsheviks and the Communists.

          And the peasants then understood this difference:



          In the party after the revolution and before the 24th. year the overwhelming majority were Trotskyists (in a ratio of ~ 1: 8 in favor of the Trotskyists). They held almost all leading positions after the 24th. A significant number of them were reduced only in 38th ... All party decisions are made by a majority vote (that is, until 24th by the Trotskyists). In the video behind the back of the Bolshevik Chapaev, there is a Trotskyist Furmonov and God forbid Chapay say something wrong ...
          1. Serg65
            Serg65 9 December 2020 13: 17
            +3
            Quote: Boris55
            behind the back of the Bolshevik Chapaev, there is the Trotskyist Furmonov

            Based on this, we conclude ... Frunze, Lenin-Trotskyists ... what Who are the Bolsheviks then?
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. kalibr
          kalibr 9 December 2020 11: 39
          -1
          Quote: Lech from Android.
          Is this a rarity?

          This one, of course. The last two pages!
        4. Serg65
          Serg65 9 December 2020 13: 05
          +1
          Quote: Lech from Android.
          I just can't understand what is the difference between the Bolsheviks and the Communists.

          Why is it not clear ... the Bolsheviks are the party of Lenin, the communists are the party of Stalin !!!
        5. Aviator_
          Aviator_ 9 December 2020 19: 14
          0
          I just can't understand what is the difference between the Bolsheviks and the Communists.

          In the memoirs of Vaupshasov "At disturbing intersections" the difference is described. During the Civil War, the adherents of Trotsky were called communists, and the supporters of Lenin were called Bolsheviks.
      2. A. Privalov
        A. Privalov 9 December 2020 11: 03
        +1
        Quote: kalibr
        Dear Alexander! I have a Short Course in the History of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks, published in 1945, ed. Comrade Stalin. I read it on duty from 1982 to 91, but yesterday I reread it again out of interest. There ... In general, at the end it describes why and how the USSR should inevitably collapse. Only in 45 did no one think that this was a prophetic description of our future! If you can, get to it ... and read the last two pages.

        Greetings! hi
        I was taught by such Bison, who tightly sewed into the basis of teaching "the treasury of Marxist-Leninist science, the sharpest weapon of mastering Bolshevism" - "A short course in the history of the CPSU (b)" - a guide that represents the official, verified by the Central Committee of the CPSU (b), interpretation of the main issues history of the CPSU (b) and Marxism-Leninism, which does not allow any arbitrary interpretation.
        With such you do not play around! The middle of 70's, is it a joke to say! Yes, wake me up in 3 today and ask what is Marxism-Leninism? I will answer, as in the standings for MLF: "Marxism-Leninism is the only truly true scientific system of philosophical, economic, and sociopolitical views, integrating conceptual views, on knowledge and revolutionary transformation of the world, on the laws of social development, nature and human thinking, on class struggle and forms of transition to socialism (including the overthrow of capitalism) about the creative activities of workers directly involved in building a socialist and communist society. " In, how!
        But I learned all this from the 1938 edition. This particular issue is on the network, and for some reason I don’t see the 1945 edition, moreover, in some places there are even comments, they say, changes have been made to the text scanned from the 1945 edition to bring it into line with the first edition of 1938 , a number of surnames were removed from the 1945 edition (Yezhov, for example), etc.
        Maybe you have a link to the 1945 edition and those "last two pages", I would be very grateful. hi
        1. kalibr
          kalibr 9 December 2020 11: 41
          0
          Quote: A. Privalov
          a number of surnames were removed from the 1945 edition (Yezhov, for example), etc.

          Yes, there is only Yagoda. I will scan you what I mean!
        2. kalibr
          kalibr 9 December 2020 11: 50
          +1
          You are welcome. Read from point 5:

          1. kalibr
            kalibr 9 December 2020 11: 53
            0
            At the same time, I always remember the closed dining room for OK employees with a policeman at the entrance and a special clinic for OK, RK and us, associate professors of the history of the CPSU. Palms, carpets ... refined courtesy of the staff. It was good! Only for some reason it broke ...
            1. A. Privalov
              A. Privalov 9 December 2020 13: 02
              +3
              Thanks. I read it. Iosif Vissarionovich said good words, quoting Lev Davydovich almost literally, but it's too late. Ramon Mercader had already done his job and for 5 years, by this time he was rotting in prison ...
              1. kalibr
                kalibr 9 December 2020 13: 05
                0
                Quote: A. Privalov
                almost literally quoting Lev Davydovich

                This is the funniest thing!
          2. The comment was deleted.
          3. The comment was deleted.
    2. Sugar Honeyovich
      Sugar Honeyovich 9 December 2020 14: 18
      +5
      Quote: A. Privalov
      the desire of the overthrown classes to preserve private property and their privileged position was also the reason for the outbreak of the Civil War.

      This is how the Bolsheviks explained the cause of the civil war. So they were telling the truth?
      Quote: A. Privalov
      The conditions of the Brest Peace Treaty were humiliating for Russia, which was regarded by people as a refusal of the authorities to defend the honor and dignity of the country.

      Many more people regarded this as the salvation of the country and as the reign of peace. Why the most ardent supporters of the Bolsheviks were the demobilized front-line soldiers.
      Quote: A. Privalov
      The Red Terror, largely due to the White Terror, but took on a massive character.

      As massive as any other. Moreover, the "color" of terror is often impossible to determine.
      Quote: A. Privalov
      Socialist parties and democratic public associations pushed away from the Bolsheviks.

      Some parties and associations. The Left Social Revolutionaries just collaborated with the Bolsheviks and the so-called. the "red terror" is largely their work.
  • ee2100
    ee2100 9 December 2020 10: 20
    +3
    This is not an article, this is a social survey - the reaction of the population (its thinking and reading parts) to the potential challenges of the time.
    The analysis of your comments in this case to the question "What if tomorrow is a civil war?"
    1. Lech from Android.
      Lech from Android. 9 December 2020 10: 34
      +4
      The analysis of your comments in this case to the question "What if tomorrow is a civil war?"

      State Duma elections are on the way smile nothing new ... the same will happen before the presidential elections. hi
  • kalibr
    kalibr 9 December 2020 10: 43
    -3
    Quote: ee2100
    The analysis of your comments in this case to the question "What if tomorrow is a civil war?"

    At least someone smart was found here ...
    1. Lech from Android.
      Lech from Android. 9 December 2020 10: 47
      0
      At least someone smart was found here ...

      Ha ... go to the comments of the members of the forum in your personal profile and analyze as much as you want according to the comments, everything about a single person ... high technology edrit them.
      It is quite possible to create a portrait of a person from the inside. hi
  • Cherry Nine
    Cherry Nine 9 December 2020 11: 16
    +6
    I read this, I wonder why Samsonov is suddenly writing moderately insane things, even in some matters it was. And here
    England, France and the USA. They implemented their strategic plans in relation to Russia and thoroughly plundered our country during the Time of Troubles.

    For example, England at the beginning of the First World War planned to dismember the Russian Empire, to create a "cordon sanitaire" from the western Russian regions (from the limitrophe countries from the Baltic to the Black Sea). The British also succeeded during the Russian Troubles. Separated from Russia Finland, the Baltic States and Poland (which was given Western Belarus and Western Ukraine).




    That is, the Germans did all this, and for some reason the British planned. It's strange.
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 9 December 2020 12: 32
      0
      Quote: Cherry Nine
      That is, the Germans did all this, and for some reason the British planned. It's strange.

      This is delirium!
    2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 9 December 2020 14: 11
      +2
      Quote: Cherry Nine
      Strange.

      yes no, not strange. If you look for a long time into the abyss of Samson's idiocy, then sooner or later, the abyss will look at you.
      More precisely - already ...
  • Pavel Vladimirov
    Pavel Vladimirov 9 December 2020 14: 04
    +6
    Civil war is not provoked by monuments, imitators of white figures, and other admirers of certain heroes, but it is provoked by the authorities, officials, law enforcement officers and other bureaucrats, provoked by corruption, a gap in income, social injustice.
  • andrei anatolevich
    andrei anatolevich 9 December 2020 14: 16
    -2
    I only agree that Russia certainly does not need it. All sorts of "red", as well as "white" - go in the ass. Enough for us Lenin-Stalin-Brezhnev, like other tsars. Let us live in peace! Who needs social-zm-pi ..., sorry, go to North. Korea! And no kings are needed. And no requisitions are needed. Tired of it!
  • Sergey Oreshin
    Sergey Oreshin 9 December 2020 17: 53
    +4
    Diluted srach, "sofa warriors"
    Use the way the boys say. 99% of Russians either have not heard about the Civil War or have an extremely vague idea about it, especially young people.
    Kolchak, Frunze, Denikin, Wrangel, Makhno, Budyonny, Voroshilov, Kornilov, Kaledin, Krylenko, Dybenko, Vatsetis, Kamenev, Dutov - yes, these names of the overwhelming majority of Russians do not say anything, at best they will remember that "it seems like yes, there were something like that ... "
    There are simply “couch white-doers” and “couch revolutionaries” on the Internet, who like to argue with each other virtually, tk. except as a language to wag nothing in essence. In real life, almost invisible and harmless
    1. awdrgy
      awdrgy 9 December 2020 23: 47
      +1
      Just like me
    2. niksfromru
      niksfromru 10 December 2020 14: 45
      +1
      Just do not forget about the civil war of the "saints of the 90s". True, it was carried out for a banal "division of property", but the people were put in the ground.
      1. Sergey Oreshin
        Sergey Oreshin 10 December 2020 15: 46
        +1
        In many ways, they have already begun to forget. Young people already vaguely imagine who Yeltsin, Gaidar, Chernomyrdin were
  • Anachoret
    Anachoret 9 December 2020 19: 40
    0
    The author tries to reflect on a given topic, while floating in the material at the level of the three with a minus of the school curriculum.
    "Some prince to some Batu ..."
    Even the conventional division into red and white already smacks of primitive propaganda from the Komsomol organizer of the Soviet school.
    The author is probably not aware that not all whites were monarchists, and not all reds were in favor of the creation of Soviet Russia.
    The phrase was especially amusing:
    True (as in France, where there are supporters of Napoleon, the House of Orleans, or the Bourbons), such oppositionists in new Russia receive only no more than 1-3% of voters' support.

    For the information of the author Napoleon 7 is the head of the House of Bonapartes, which do not claim to restore the monarchy in France. But the House of Bourbons of Orleans is actively supported by the French and the theme of restoring the monarchy is very popular there. Marine Le Pen is an ideological battering ram for these ideas and her popularity, even in the last Macron elections, beat backhand. But the election results are corrected by those who benefit not only from us.
    As for the support "with us". If memory serves, last year there were polls in Russia about the idea of ​​restoring the monarchy, and this idea was supported by 25 or 30 percent of the respondents, and the same number "were not against".
    So the author's reasoning about 1-3 percent of support is about Bakov's political projects, and not about the popularity of ideas.
    And the percentages in our elections, as you know, are drawn in the spirit of "what you please". Otherwise, "on the wave of popular love" the candidates from the ruling party would not have won the local non-party scrub-cleaners and housewives.
    1. Bolt cutter
      Bolt cutter 9 December 2020 23: 50
      0
      the topic of restoring the monarchy is very popular there
      At least, not really.
      Marine Le Pen is the ideological ram for these ideas
      She is a nationalist, but not a monarchist even once.
      1. andrew42
        andrew42 10 December 2020 19: 05
        +1
        Well noticed. Sympathies for the monarchy are indirect, nostalgic. Exactly as much as the monarchy is identified with the French nation. But sympathy for Marie is direct, and the monarchist motives here are nothing more than a "bow on the side."
  • Aleks2000
    Aleks2000 9 December 2020 21: 55
    +3
    On the one hand, it is true.
    On the other hand - you don't know what to write - blame everything on England.

    So, it is known that Germany contributed to the separation of Finland from Russia.
    But in the article, no, no. England - period!
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Timofey Charuta
    Timofey Charuta 10 December 2020 13: 39
    0
    Russian patriotism, in itself, does not cause objections, but "childhood diseases" are noticeable - monarchism and Stalinism.

    The only plus of all tsarism in Russia is the creation of a huge, unparalleled empire. That they were good at gathering even peoples hostile to Russia into a common Russian basket and getting along with them.

    About Stalin.
    Even professional and authoritative historians give diametrically opposite assessments. So much has been wrapped around this name now - a mix of the stupidest nonsense and caramel truth on a stick. They already say that the archival documents on the Stalinist era are falsified, they sin against Khrushch and Humpbacked ... I think that we will never know the real truth ...

  • niksfromru
    niksfromru 10 December 2020 14: 39
    +2
    Who benefits from a civil war? And who is "profitable" that autumn comes after the summer? In a society where the "social distance" between citizens is $ 1,5 billion, the stratification into "reds" and "whites" is dictated by objective laws.
    Back in 2010, the chairman of the Constitutional Court V. Zorkin (who can hardly be suspected of being in opposition) warned that if the previous course was continued, “our state would turn from criminalized to criminal ... our citizens would then be divided into predators, who feel at ease in the criminal jungle, and "subhumans" who understand that they are just food for these predators. Predators will be a minority, "walking steaks" - the majority. The gap between the majority and the minority will constantly grow.
    On one side, aggression and contempt for the "losers" will accumulate, who "must be cut or cut." On the other side - the horror and anger of the unfortunate, who, in despair, will begin to dream not of democracy at all, but of an iron dictatorship that can offer at least some alternative to the criminal jungle.
    This dictatorship will be dreamed of as the highest good. And it remains to be seen whether such a "good" will remain a pipe dream of the disadvantaged. Or, after their long torment, a dubious "savior" will appear, stopping the criminal lawlessness and replacing it with a dictatorship of one type or another. "(Rossiyskaya Gazeta - Federal Issue No. 280 (5359))
    It looks like a "premonition of civil war"
  • Viktor HanelisBogatishev
    Viktor HanelisBogatishev 10 December 2020 16: 47
    0
    An insidious little article, with rigging - the facts are presented more or less correctly, but the conclusions are completely wild, SHOWING THE ESSENCE OF BOLSHEVISM, WHICH IS BASED ON THE PRIMARY RUSSIAN IDEOLOGY - A COMMUNITY ROOTED FOR MILLENNIUMS. the author began for health, finished for the repose AND IN THIS SENSE HE IS FIRSTLY CLOSING WITH THE ENEMIES of the Russian Civilization!
    1. andrew42
      andrew42 10 December 2020 19: 17
      0
      On that and in the end the stubborn Marxists got burned, that the RUSSIAN COMMUNITY, as "soil" was ignored. Although this is precisely why Socialism (even in that "model range" from Lenin / Trotsky to Stalin, and to Brezhnev) burst to the surface and established itself precisely in Russia, and not in the homeland of Marx / Engels. Inside the late USSR, the classical Marxist antithesis "proletariat vs bourgeoisie" did not become, and the ideological concept was not renewed. The Soviet citizen was no longer a "proletarian" in the Marxist sense, and found himself defenseless against the very "bourgeoisie" that was perfectly preserved beyond the cordon. As soon as a sufficient part of the party elite degraded, the fence collapsed, and the Soviet people found themselves like sheep in front of a pack of wolves.
    2. andrew42
      andrew42 10 December 2020 19: 23
      0
      And about the insidiousness of the article - empty. There is no such "insidiousness" there. If only because the "more insidious" pounce on her in large numbers.
  • Radikal
    Radikal 10 December 2020 21: 27
    +1
    Quote: kalibr
    Quote: Dalny V
    And I really want it to happen in our lifetime.

    You want blood, right? And if yours will pour?

    "Posner" - threaten? belay lol
  • Radikal
    Radikal 10 December 2020 21: 36
    +1
    Quote: kalibr
    Quote: Dalny V
    If mine spills? Why not, if for a just cause?

    Michael! And what if it happens so: in your city in a state of anarchy (and it always happens at such moments) there will be a "death squad", by analogy with Colombia. They will catch such "revolutionaries" and ... they will sew up their mouths with wire, hang them naked by the hands in the square and into the anal boiler. Live broadcast on TV: "Parents, bring the children, let them see what happens to those who rebel with the money of the State Department!"
    Turn on through a rheostat. And they ask: "Who wants to avoid ...? But he will have to continue ..." Right there, yes ... Right there. One two. They are released and they ... continue! People twitched ... they are asked again ... There are already more people willing. As a result, the most stubborn is executed, and the rest are sent home. The lesson it will give is such that you will forget to write about blood and even think from the word in general. And every trip to the toilet will remind you that it is better to "sit still". Do you think this can not be? Maybe something else ...

    "Posner", what you are in_runishka - we are aware of it. Only you have now frankly slipped into the support and advertising of the fascist regimes that existed in Latin American countries in the last century, and were created by this very State Department to fight the communists. You wrote it "well" about torture, savoring it with details. It seems like threatening part of the members of the forum. Are you not afraid to experience pleasure yourself? sad
  • Radikal
    Radikal 10 December 2020 21: 41
    0
    Quote: sniperino
    Quote: AKuzenka
    all your articles on the protection and prevention of civil war are clear.
    Your comments aimed at loosening and stirring up are also understandable. All the instigators, even the Civil War, even the war between Novgorod and Suzdal, are to the northeast, let them build infrastructure for the Northern Sea Route there, they will cool off a little.

    You need to go there, along with Chubais, and someone else .... bully
  • Anton 17
    Anton 17 14 December 2020 19: 57
    0
    There is a general systemic crisis in the country and in the world. And for more than one year. Therefore, the situation is not solvable and will not be resolved by the old methods.
  • saygon66
    saygon66 15 December 2020 17: 53
    0
    - The possible mess of the Civil War, in the form that was from 1917 to 1921, will hardly be called ... There is no idea! And there are no parties reflecting the views of the belligerents either.
    - And there is, as p-k Lakhnovsky used to say, the desire "... to live and eat! Moreover, to live - as long as possible, and to eat - as sweet as possible!" (C).
    - Like the carnage at the distillery shops in the 90s ... There is a massacre, the cause of the conflict is there, maybe there are even killed and wounded ... But this cannot be called a Civil War! Mesilovo is not for a bright future, but for a well-fed today ... sad
  • tank64rus
    tank64rus 15 December 2020 18: 06
    +1
    No matter how it happens again. Based on greed, stupidity and basic stupidity of the modern elite. They will not understand in any way that they are cutting the branch on which they sit. We saw the face and the answer of the "businessman" about sugar prices. These are the ones that will drive us to the horror called civil war.
  • Baron pardus
    Baron pardus 16 December 2020 18: 10
    +1
    It seems to me, and this is my IMHO, that the Maidan in Russia is simply inevitable, unfortunately, however, just like here, in the United States. In Russia, because the further the gap between the "democratically elected from two or more candidates", the so-called. "servants of the people" (In real life, the lackeys of the oligarchs), and the average person. Especially outside Moscow and Leningrad. Add to this the fact that society is criminalized to the limit "AUE" has a greater impact on children than birth and school taken together. Complete lack of ideology at the state level. AND ANGRY. And you will get the Maidan. And the funny thing is, not from Navalny, Sobchkov, Pussy Raiot and Gamnopolsky and any other swamp bog kikimor. And from the side of simple hard workers. And this revolt will be well deserved by both the country and the government, and this revolt will be all the more terrible because everyone will be against everyone. Because even the opponents of today's feudal capitalist regime are scattered - from monarchists, led by costumed fat men - goats and no less costly fat men in women's dresses - priests, to neo-fascists to communists and further down the list. There will be not two or three camps, but much more. The fact that the population has no weapons is not a problem, they will be thrown. Customs officers for a small bribe will not notice several containers. And it will go. Do you need a lot?

    The most tragic thing is that this Maidan can be avoided. Today. But for this, the oligarchs and their lackeys (the government) must understand that it is better now to grab and steal less, but to preserve both the power and the country. Demonstratively imprison several hundred criminals. Stand up for traditional family and family values. Stop pouring shit on your story. But in their supernatural greed and all-consuming impudence (and what do you want - scratch any oligarch - you will find a former gopnik), they do not notice this.
    I spoke several years ago with a policeman from Moscow. And he told me that his salary was the equivalent of 450-500 dollars, and asked me how he could survive without bribes. Naturally it cannot. So, I'm not sure that in the case of a grandiose nix, the cops will especially protect someone other than themselves.
    Who benefits from? Everyone except Russia itself. But the problem is that the modern Russian government (the oligarchs and their lackeys) wanted to score against both Russia and its people. They have already scored on the DNR / LNR, and there are the same Russians. Think PutiPu & Co Are Russians from Russia more expensive than Russians from DPR / LPR? Don't tell my slippers. Therefore, the government will follow the same course, will receive a well-deserved Maidan and a civil war, and cookies from the US Embassy will not be needed. Nationalists and Communists are already seeing the drain of the DPR / LPR and the plundering of the country and the impoverishment of the people. They don't need American instructors for this. The Nazis see under each closet "foreigners" or "hidden", they already have Yeltsin-Yelzer, and Putin "Katz for his mother." And so on down the list. And each group of disaffected people sees real problems. No American instructors. Or the problems that are real only in their heads (crushers and churched), but perception is 90% of reality, so they just have enough of their own delusions.

    By the way, "The crunch of a French roll" is a polite variant to say "Let the winds go", so you listen to these idiots who call themselves spoiling the air and don't know it, and your heart just rejoices. The intelligence of these crushers is at the level of those who in the 80s-90s made self-made T-shirts with English inscriptions like "I am a fool, ain't I?"

    Even the ecclesiastically christened defenders of "Orthodox Screps" see a very real destruction of morality, customs and foundations. They don't need American cookies either. And then it will be very sad. Lucky for those who will be in the territory where China will enter. And the rest will have to be very, very bad.
    However, I am a pessimist, and I will be very glad if I turn out to be wrong.
  • Erik
    Erik 19 December 2020 23: 25
    +1
    How many guards are here, uuu ... Look, those who cover up capitalist thieves call the poor thieves themselves! It's funny, though!
    30 years of the capitalist "bright future" has proved that this formation is not for Russia. Why? Yes, because Russia, getting into capitalism, stood at the very end of the line. You have to be an idiot not to see this. But 15 rubles for a comment is more important.
    Well, those who are warmly settled will have to choose. But the people are not yet ready, not ready with intelligence and understanding. Russia is now going through a "circle path". This is when Marxist circles were formed throughout the empire. The process went on for about 30 years. But this was when there was no Internet and other things. Now this path will be passed much faster.
    And yes, there is a real war in Russia. The war between capital and labor. Lots of people with petty bourgeois thinking and so on. But capitalism is digging its own grave. More beggars, more people with nothing to lose. Here the slogan works - the worse the better! Loans and mortgages, advertising and marketing, uhhh ... Pitchfork. Here, above with a soldering iron, Mr. One scares, so let him know that there were victims before the civil one. And the whites, having untied the citizen, themselves lost it. Anything will happen, but not now! So, everyone will have a soldering iron, but someone will quickly turn on the back one and repaint!
  • Erik
    Erik 19 December 2020 23: 30
    0
    Quote: Baron Pardus
    It seems to me, and this is my IMHO, that the Maidan in Russia is simply inevitable, unfortunately, however, just like here, in the United States. In Russia, because the further the gap between the "democratically elected from two or more candidates", the so-called. "servants of the people" (In real life, the lackeys of the oligarchs), and the average person. Especially outside Moscow and Leningrad. Add to this the fact that society is criminalized to the limit "AUE" has a greater impact on children than birth and school taken together. Complete lack of ideology at the state level. AND ANGRY. And you will get the Maidan. And the funny thing is, not from Navalny, Sobchkov, Pussy Raiot and Gamnopolsky and any other swamp bog kikimor. And from the side of simple hard workers. And this revolt will be well deserved by both the country and the government, and this revolt will be all the more terrible because everyone will be against everyone. Because even the opponents of today's feudal capitalist regime are scattered - from monarchists, led by costumed fat men - goats and no less costly fat men in women's dresses - priests, to neo-fascists to communists and further down the list. There will be not two or three camps, but much more. The fact that the population has no weapons is not a problem, they will be thrown. Customs officers for a small bribe will not notice several containers. And it will go. Do you need a lot?

    The most tragic thing is that this Maidan can be avoided. Today. But for this, the oligarchs and their lackeys (the government) must understand that it is better now to grab and steal less, but to preserve both the power and the country. Demonstratively imprison several hundred criminals. Stand up for traditional family and family values. Stop pouring shit on your story. But in their supernatural greed and all-consuming impudence (and what do you want - scratch any oligarch - you will find a former gopnik), they do not notice this.
    I spoke several years ago with a policeman from Moscow. And he told me that his salary was the equivalent of 450-500 dollars, and asked me how he could survive without bribes. Naturally it cannot. So, I'm not sure that in the case of a grandiose nix, the cops will especially protect someone other than themselves.
    Who benefits from? Everyone except Russia itself. But the problem is that the modern Russian government (the oligarchs and their lackeys) wanted to score against both Russia and its people. They have already scored on the DNR / LNR, and there are the same Russians. Think PutiPu & Co Are Russians from Russia more expensive than Russians from DPR / LPR? Don't tell my slippers. Therefore, the government will follow the same course, will receive a well-deserved Maidan and a civil war, and cookies from the US Embassy will not be needed. Nationalists and Communists are already seeing the drain of the DPR / LPR and the plundering of the country and the impoverishment of the people. They don't need American instructors for this. The Nazis see under each closet "foreigners" or "hidden", they already have Yeltsin-Yelzer, and Putin "Katz for his mother." And so on down the list. And each group of disaffected people sees real problems. No American instructors. Or the problems that are real only in their heads (crushers and churched), but perception is 90% of reality, so they just have enough of their own delusions.

    By the way, "The crunch of a French roll" is a polite variant to say "Let the winds go", so you listen to these idiots who call themselves spoiling the air and don't know it, and your heart just rejoices. The intelligence of these crushers is at the level of those who in the 80s-90s made self-made T-shirts with English inscriptions like "I am a fool, ain't I?"

    Even the ecclesiastically christened defenders of "Orthodox Screps" see a very real destruction of morality, customs and foundations. They don't need American cookies either. And then it will be very sad. Lucky for those who will be in the territory where China will enter. And the rest will have to be very, very bad.
    However, I am a pessimist, and I will be very glad if I turn out to be wrong.


    Much is correct, but you are proposing a social demographic, and she lost very quickly, and not in Russia, but in Germany. There is no third way here, either private ownership of the means of production, or public! Lenin, watching the political kitchen of Europe, immediately realized that there was no third way. We cannot do with half measures here.
  • Alexander F.
    Alexander F. 1 January 2021 22: 28
    +1
    Another "eccentric" is more dangerous than the enemy.
    The greatest value of liberals, denial of the values ​​of morality and morality.
    And how else, with a jackal, earn the favor of successful predators, in the person of the Anglo-Saxon model of the world order, eugenics of the science of human selection.
    So the goal is the same as 2000 years ago.
    Having destroyed morality and morality, turn people into a submissive and weak-willed flock of highly intelligent animals, meekly and joyfully producing material values, under the slogans of Long Live the State Department.
    "The devil's greatest trick is to convince you that he doesn't exist."
    This is the concept that the liberals are working out in the hope of earning the status of governors in the territories conquered not without their help.
  • Evgeny Seleznev
    Evgeny Seleznev 7 January 2021 22: 52
    0
    Well, now a civil war is likely with the collapse of the remnants of the Great Country into different estates. The elite and the permanent will always have time to dump on the shores that are not native.