Military Review

Czech journalist to Ukrainian historian: If Ukrainians were oppressed in the USSR, then how did they and the Ukrainian language survive?

125
Czech journalist to Ukrainian historian: If Ukrainians were oppressed in the USSR, then how did they and the Ukrainian language survive?

The notorious ex-director of the Institute of National Memory Volodymyr Vyatrovych began to "tour" on the airs of not only the Ukrainian media, but also the media platforms of the eastern EU countries. In particular, his interview appeared in the major Czech publication Aktualne. And almost all of it (interview) was devoted to how “история Ukraine is perceived in Russia ”. Vyatrovich, from the time of his work at the above-mentioned institute, was haunted by the opinion of Russians about those events that he himself defined almost as the main ones in Ukrainian history.


In an interview with Czech journalist Martin Novak, Vyatrovic said that "Russians prefer to believe in Soviet myths."

Vyatrovich:

For example, Russians do not see the Holodomor as genocide of the Ukrainian people. In Soviet times, it was simply forbidden to talk about it. Any mention of the famine in the USSR became the object of close attention from the KGB. They began to learn more about this only during the so-called perestroika of Mikhail Gorbachev.

The Czech author noted that Russian historians, talking about the famine in the USSR, note that the famine affected not only Ukrainians. To this Vyatrovich said that "this is a question of interpreting the history of Ukraine." According to the ex-head of the Ukrainian INP, "all this is due to the fact that the positions of the Russian government are opposite to those of Ukraine."

Ukrainian historian:

That is why it is widely believed in Russia that this was not the genocide of the Ukrainians, but that the target was the peasants as such, regardless of their nationality. This is nonsense, because the affected peasants were Ukrainians, and this was Stalin's clear intention.

A Czech journalist asked Vyatrovich why, if the Ukrainians were so “oppressed in the USSR”, if the “policy of Russification” was in effect, the Ukrainians and the Ukrainian language generally survived?

Vyatrovich, frankly confused in his words, said that when he went to the Soviet school, "there the Russian language, unlike the Ukrainian one, enjoyed all the advantages." The Ukrainian "scientist" did not really answer the question of the Czech journalist. And he did not answer for the simple reason that the answer itself lies on the surface: all statements about oppression, oppression of Ukrainians are an absolute lie, which is understandable to everyone who lived in the USSR, or although he is familiar with the history of the Soviet state, which at one time was headed by ethnic Ukrainians.

Ultimately, Vyatrovich finally “hit” politics, stating that Zelensky was in vain hoping for a dialogue with Putin, since “Putin's goal is to eliminate an independent Ukraine.”
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  1. svp67
    svp67 4 December 2020 14: 49
    +15
    are an absolute lie, which is understandable to everyone who lived in the USSR, or although he is familiar with the history of the Soviet state, which at one time was headed by ethnic Ukrainians.
    Well, this is if only he is familiar with the true history of the USSR, and not the one that was taught by the same Vyatrovich and all this "sorosyatnya"
    1. withoutreverse
      withoutreverse 4 December 2020 14: 56
      +23
      Well, yes .. and the meat was not reported to them in a bowl .. and the bread was made from black flour), and the tea was without tea leaves and sugar. that's how they lived, for centuries in Russia)
      1. svp67
        svp67 4 December 2020 14: 57
        +17
        Quote: withoutreverse
        that's how they lived, for centuries in Russia)

        And only during the existence of the USSR, the population of ROSLA, apparently from "hunger"
        1. withoutreverse
          withoutreverse 4 December 2020 15: 02
          +12
          Shaw not eat, then I bite!

          1. janin
            janin 4 December 2020 15: 09
            +11
            I remember in the army they often used this saying))
    2. Overlock
      Overlock 4 December 2020 14: 59
      +45
      Quote: svp67
      he is familiar with the true history of the USSR, and not the one taught by the same Vyatrovich

      Vyatrovich does not even know the history of his country, and even the USSR, even more so
    3. StroiaBat
      StroiaBat 4 December 2020 16: 18
      +4
      Quote: svp67
      Well, this is if only he is familiar with the true history of the USSR, and not the one that was taught by the same Vyatrovich and all this "sorosyatnya"

      That's right Sergey! Who knows who and the Ukrainians have a sin to complain about Russia and the USSR!
      Ukraine has always been a priority .. I am more and more convinced of the saying "Do not do good, you will not get evil .." in relation to the former "brothers" .. We received a good lesson, I hope we will not step on this rake again?
      1. Vladimir Mashkov
        Vladimir Mashkov 4 December 2020 20: 12
        +2
        Vyatrovich is one of the first odious pro-government nationalists - the Svidomites and Banderaites - who were accidentally carried to the very top by a dirty wave (which was also washed down the toilet). I'm just surprised that someone is still seriously interested in him and that the nonsense that he carries is lying and talking all these crazy crazy people! winked
    4. aleks neym_2
      aleks neym_2 4 December 2020 23: 22
      +1
      Take a close look at the films of the Dovzhenko film studio of the 50s and 70s: signs, transparencies and other inscriptions in the UKRAINIAN LANGUAGE are constantly flashing in the background !!!
      1. aleks neym_2
        aleks neym_2 4 December 2020 23: 37
        0
        In honor of what? Explain.
        1. svp67
          svp67 5 December 2020 05: 15
          +3
          Quote: aleks neym_2
          Take a close look at the films of the dovzhenko film studio

          Dear, yes, all the most important documents in a person's life of that time, on the territory of the Ukrainian SSR were bilingual, and this is a birth certificate, certificates, passports, diplomas. etc. The page in Russian, the next in Ukrainian, and so it was in all the Union republics and no one caused protests and rejection
      2. Dmitry10SPb
        Dmitry10SPb 5 December 2020 21: 17
        -3
        Were there many films in Ukrainian?
  2. Svarog
    Svarog 4 December 2020 14: 50
    +12
    Czech journalist to Ukrainian historian: If Ukrainians were oppressed in the USSR, then how did they and the Ukrainian language survive?

    The Soviet government was too kind and democratic ... it was necessary to uproot the bender to zero ...
    1. Overlock
      Overlock 4 December 2020 14: 58
      +41
      Quote: Svarog
      The Soviet government was too kind and democratic ... it was necessary to uproot the bender to zero ...

      not Soviet power, but Khrushchev. Yesterday I watched about Novocherkask -1962 "Dear Comrades".
      Khrushchev regretted Bandera, but he shot hard workers
      1. Svarog
        Svarog 4 December 2020 15: 01
        +9
        Quote: Overlock
        Quote: Svarog
        The Soviet government was too kind and democratic ... it was necessary to uproot the bender to zero ...

        not Soviet power, but Khrushchev. Yesterday I watched about Novocherkask -1962 "Dear Comrades".
        Khrushchev regretted Bandera, but he shot hard workers

        Spitsyn also talked about this .. that Khrushchev rehabilitated and gave the opportunity to work for the Bandera people .. moreover, their prominent figures held responsible posts in Ukraine. It was with this monster that the collapse of the USSR began, and he was the power.
        1. Sergej1972
          Sergej1972 5 December 2020 13: 47
          +1
          Not rehabilitated. They were amnestied. These are two different things. Name at least one Bandera member who would hold a responsible post in the Ukrainian SSR above the level of the collective farm and village council?
      2. veritas
        veritas 4 December 2020 15: 59
        +4
        Quote: Overlock
        Khrushchev regretted Bandera, but he shot hard workers

        Yesterday I looked at this subject of Konchalovsky's justification, as if in a frying pan.
        1. Navigator Basov
          Navigator Basov 5 December 2020 15: 11
          +2
          At 17:36:
          - Fear was ... another question: was it necessary or not needed fear is another. You see, it might be that fear was necessary, because today ...
          - So that films such as "Dear Comrades" do not appear!
          - Yes, but fear was necessary, because now there is no fear, and the state is being destroyed. Do you understand?

          Konchalovsky asks the interviewer if he understands his words. I think everyone understands both his words and his cinematic language, and the master himself understands everything: he fearlessly produces this very destruction of the state, while applying a detached formulation (the destruction of the state occurs). No, it does not happen by itself, it is produced by quite specific people.
          1. veritas
            veritas 11 December 2020 14: 01
            +1
            Quote: Navigator Basov
            No, it does not happen by itself, it is produced by quite specific people.

            And their names are known.
      3. StroiaBat
        StroiaBat 4 December 2020 16: 20
        +3
        Quote: Overlock
        not Soviet power, but Khrushchev.

        Yes, and Brezhnev (Ukrainian) invested how many resources in the Ukrainian SSR ... Until now, everyone can not plunder ...
      4. Incvizitor
        Incvizitor 4 December 2020 18: 31
        0
        not Soviet power, but Khrushchev.
        And who had transplanted her before that instead of total destruction?
    2. Rubi0
      Rubi0 4 December 2020 15: 24
      0
      As Poles, after the Vistula operation, Ukrainians were resettled by 1-2 families in each village, no more, and not any flirting with national minorities and compact living.
      1. Sergej1972
        Sergej1972 5 December 2020 13: 51
        0
        And still, Ukrainians in Poland have a pronounced self-awareness. By the way, they were mainly sent to industrial enterprises of the Baltic coast. Incidentally, Lemkos with strikers, pro-Soviet, pro-Russian, who did not support Bandera, also suffered.
  3. Hunter 2
    Hunter 2 4 December 2020 14: 50
    +7
    What a question? IM - All Should! IMF - Money, Russia - Gas, Poles - concrete debtors ... only Lamberg will soon be returned to the campaign. This Misunderstanding should not be considered a Country.
    We must return YanukVosch to them, there is nothing to sit out in Our Rostov ... cowardly toadstool.
    1. Bolt cutter
      Bolt cutter 4 December 2020 15: 05
      +2
      Everyone is deeply indebted to them for the fact that they heroically defend the borders of Europe (and Asia probably too laughing ) from Russian aggression fellow
      IM - All Should!

      But seriously, too much attention is paid to them. It’s even harder to laugh at them.
  4. iouris
    iouris 4 December 2020 14: 54
    +3
    They did not "survive", but they were formed after "perestroika".
  5. rocket757
    rocket757 4 December 2020 14: 56
    +7
    Russians prefer to believe in Soviet myths. "

    Let it be a "myth", but when the majority believes in it, they did not even know that it was simply true !!! then everything is believable and has the confidence of the masses.
    When their sales people don't believe in the myth, it is clear that this is complete garbage ...
    1. cniza
      cniza 4 December 2020 16: 45
      +3
      It's useless to say and prove something to someone so stubborn as Vyatrovich ...
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 4 December 2020 17: 16
        +3
        Hi soldier
        There is no talk about the stoned ones, with flabby, shaken brains ...
        There is always a certain part of the population that is not inclined to believe in any nonsense ... then, it comes to some, all the same, that it is simply dangerous to live in a delirium.
        1. cniza
          cniza 4 December 2020 17: 27
          +4
          Good time! hi

          So I think why we do not see interviews of normal adequate people ...
          1. Pete mitchell
            Pete mitchell 4 December 2020 18: 33
            +3
            hi good day
            Quote: cniza
            why we do not see interviews of normal adequate people ...

            Because they did not work well at the time; there was no coherent policy in the Russian Federation in relation to former relatives - as a result, the Vyatrovichs broke through to power. Nevertheless, it is necessary to work against them - it is necessary to work for the future, namely your future.
            1. rocket757
              rocket757 4 December 2020 20: 52
              +2
              The future was forged yesterday, now, and tomorrow we will have to think about the future afterwards.
              1. Pete mitchell
                Pete mitchell 4 December 2020 20: 55
                +2
                Quote: rocket757
                The future took shape yesterday, now, and tomorrow we will have to think about the future afterwards.

                Well, in the sense of not retreating and not giving up - and that's right
            2. cniza
              cniza 4 December 2020 21: 09
              +2
              Quote: Pete Mitchell
              Nevertheless, it is necessary to work against them - it is necessary to work for the future, namely your future.


              Greetings hi
              And we have no other options, so calmly, with feeling, with sense, with arrangement ...
              1. Pete mitchell
                Pete mitchell 4 December 2020 21: 22
                +1
                Quote: cniza
                We have no other options, so calmly, with feeling, with sense, with arrangement ...
                .., but sometimes it's worth "pressing" the pedal, because they don't understand the first time, well, for enlightenment ...
          2. rocket757
            rocket757 4 December 2020 20: 51
            +2
            You can listen, watch the performance of adequate people, but they also do not need problems at home ...
            1. cniza
              cniza 4 December 2020 21: 11
              +2
              This is understandable, but otherwise how can we overpower everything and lead to common sense ...
              1. rocket757
                rocket757 4 December 2020 22: 33
                +1
                Since the Chinese, North Korea have done, none of the neighbors can do it, so the truth and everything else, people can find out, there would be a desire.
      2. Roman_LKW
        Roman_LKW 5 December 2020 00: 53
        -1
        And hunger 32-33. do you deny ???
        1. iouris
          iouris 5 December 2020 22: 18
          0
          And do you recognize the famine in the United States in the 30s ... 32s?
          Based on an analysis of statistical data, Russian scientist Boris Borisov estimates the number of victims of the financial crisis in the United States at more than 7 million people.
    2. iouris
      iouris 5 December 2020 22: 16
      +1
      Myths are produced in the United States at the State Department and in Hollywood. "Bullshit" is "public confidence." Those who can "sell" the myth are not citizens in the civil sense. This is the "thinking reed". If the politicians are guided by the mood of this mass, then these are rams leading to the slaughter of rams.
  6. Overlock
    Overlock 4 December 2020 14: 56
    +34
    Vyatrovich is too odious that even Zelensky could not hold him. Odiousness multiplied by stupidity and extreme nationalism are characteristic of this category of persons. Over time, they become useless to anyone, but you want to eat, therefore
    ... Vyatrovich began to "tour" on the air not only of the Ukrainian media, but also of the media platforms of the eastern EU countries.
  7. HAM
    HAM 4 December 2020 15: 01
    +6
    New word in Ukrainianguest worker, Vyatrovich is not the first ...
  8. Thrifty
    Thrifty 4 December 2020 15: 01
    +2
    Went shorter, vetrovich, on the ethereal hands, so far only on the ethereal, but this is the beginning of his end as a person in general, will become an animated thing, with a rotten soul inside. ..
    1. Mitroha
      Mitroha 4 December 2020 16: 05
      +1
      Quote: Thrifty
      but this is the beginning of his end as a person in general, will become an animate thing, with a rotten soul inside. ...

      You might think now he can be called a man - rotten and rotten. Only dust can become
  9. APASUS
    APASUS 4 December 2020 15: 10
    +18
    I will buy documents before 1917, with Ukrainian nationality - it's expensive!
    I will buy money from Ukraine before 1917 - very expensive!
    Buy shovels that dug the Black Sea - colossally expensive!
    1. Thrifty
      Thrifty 4 December 2020 15: 31
      +10
      APASUS hi -forgot to add "I will buy an embroidered shirt from the skin of tyrannosar" !!! wassat
    2. Avior
      Avior 4 December 2020 21: 43
      0
      Nationality in passports appeared in 1932 in the implementation of the idea of ​​Lenin, who introduced such a column in the application form for admission to the party
      Before the revolution, religion was written in official documents, not nationality. As you understand, this did not suit the communists. This is the current communists can stand prayers, then there were others.
      Lenin himself defined himself as "Great Russian".
  10. tihonmarine
    tihonmarine 4 December 2020 15: 12
    +1
    That is why it is widely believed in Russia that this was not the genocide of Ukrainians,

    Well, why is democratic Europe silent about the genocide of the Russian people during the Second World War (also of the entire Soviet people). Although it was not genocide, but a holocaust.
  11. tihonmarine
    tihonmarine 4 December 2020 15: 20
    +3
    Vyatrovich, frankly confused in his words, said that when he went to the Soviet school, "there the Russian language, unlike the Ukrainian one, enjoyed all the advantages."
    I think that Vyatrovich did not go to school at all, because in the USSR in all the Union republics there were Russian schools and schools of the language of the republic, even kindergartens were on the same principle, and it was up to the parents what school to send. I myself lived in a national republic, and my three sons graduated from Russian schools, although the latter was already after the collapse of the Soviet Union, but the children of my friend went to an Estonian school and kindergarten.
    1. Sergej1972
      Sergej1972 5 December 2020 13: 53
      +2
      The language of the republic was also studied in Russian schools.
      1. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 5 December 2020 14: 39
        0
        Quote: Sergej1972
        The language of the republic was also studied in Russian schools.

        By itself.
  12. Andrey Krasnoyarsky
    Andrey Krasnoyarsky 4 December 2020 15: 30
    +4
    The Ukrainians were persecuted so ferociously in the USSR that one of the longest-standing leaders of the Soviet Union (Brezhnev) was from Ukraine.
    1. Lord of the Sith
      Lord of the Sith 4 December 2020 15: 52
      -2
      Yes Yes))
      Look for the word ukraine))

      Born - died:
      December 6 [19], 1906, according to other sources, December 19, 1906 January 1, 1907, Kamenskoye, Yekaterinoslav province, Russian Empire - November 10, 1982, Zarechye, Moscow region, RSFSR, USSR
      1. Reviews
        Reviews 4 December 2020 16: 33
        +3
        Quote: Lord of the Sith
        Look for the word ukraine))

        Ukraine in the sense that the dill is invested in it has not yet been, and everything else can be found in the "wiki":

        Yekaterinoslav province was formed on October 8, 1802 by separation from the Novorossiysk province [1], with the center in Yekaterinoslav (now the Dnieper). Until 1917 - as part of the Russian Empire, in November 1917 - April 1918 - the Ukrainian People's Republic, the Ukrainian People's Republic of Soviets, the Ukrainian Soviet Republic, from March 1919 - as part of the Ukrainian Socialist Soviet Republic, which became part of the Union in December 1922 Soviet Socialist Republics.



        And by the way, selective quoting to please your "arguments" is a petty occupation:
        "Leonid Ilyich Brezhnev (Ukrainian. Leonid Ilich Brezhnev;

        state and party leader of Ukrainian origin "
        1. Lord of the Sith
          Lord of the Sith 4 December 2020 17: 07
          -1
          Ukroina from the word "outskirts", i.e. borderlands

          Created by the Austro-German occupation forces .. Dying. Artificial gamna made for fuckers. Whoever was able to escape from this formation has already escaped.
          1. Reviews
            Reviews 4 December 2020 17: 18
            0
            Quote: Lord of the Sith
            Ukroina from the word "outskirts", i.e. borderlands

            Created by the Austro-German occupation forces .. Dying. Artificial gamna made for fuckers. Whoever was able to escape from this formation has already escaped.

            Yeah I do not mind. You asked to "find Ukraine" - I quoted the same wiki article.
          2. Dmitry10SPb
            Dmitry10SPb 5 December 2020 21: 24
            0
            Want to repeat the absurdity? From the word "extreme", "country" they have the name of the state. And absurdity is written about Austro-Germany. For a long time there lived a people who did not consider themselves Muscovites, Germans, Tatars. They spoke differently, dressed, ate, and so on. A strange desire to look down on them. And there is no reason. And - the province went to write - the absurdities are given a go. It's a shame for that. And, no, I'm Russian, Russian.
            1. Lord of the Sith
              Lord of the Sith 6 December 2020 14: 46
              0
              And I was born and raised in the Ukrainian SSR. And I know perfectly well how and where the "outskirts", "ruins" and so on, appeared. Because he taught history. And I know the story of this patchwork unfinished.

              So do not la-la in the style of "I am Crimean, the daughter of an officer"
    2. Machnamh
      Machnamh 4 December 2020 17: 59
      0
      Quote: Andrey Krasnoyarsky
      one of the longest-standing leaders of the Soviet Union (Brezhnev) was from Ukraine


      Some, however, say that Brezhnev is Ganapolsky. And they speak without objection, confidently as they are! And Ganapolsky is already a fundamental difference!
    3. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 5 December 2020 14: 40
      0
      Quote: Andrey Krasnoyarsky
      The Ukrainians were persecuted so ferociously in the USSR that one of the longest-standing leaders of the Soviet Union (Brezhnev) was from Ukraine.

      Khrushchev was also a Little Russian.
  13. mark2
    mark2 4 December 2020 15: 34
    -3
    According to the ex-head of the Ukrainian INP, “all this is due to the fact that the positions of the Russian government are opposite to the Ukrainian


    Why the Russian government? Then a Georgian was at the head of the country. To Georgians and pritenzii. Maybe Stalin did not have a love for Ukrainians? But all this is a lie from A to Z.
  14. Lord of the Sith
    Lord of the Sith 4 December 2020 15: 48
    +3
    Czech journalist to Ukrainian historian


    What did the Spanish theologian say to the Iranian gynecologist?))
    wassat
    1. Crane
      Crane 4 December 2020 16: 00
      +3
      He asked where their colleague the proctologist locksmith was :)
  15. Alexfly
    Alexfly 4 December 2020 15: 59
    -2
    So he did not teach history either, he learned to write a little, and here, and the power changed, and the songs became different. And about the Holodomor, so he is right, the peasantry was not needed, neither the party, nor Stalin, come on collective farms! True, darkness has disappeared to the people, and not only in Ukraine, but also in the Volga region and in the Non-Black Earth Region .. So there is no need to tug-of-war ..
    1. Andrei Nikolaevich
      Andrei Nikolaevich 4 December 2020 17: 00
      -1
      Regarding the collective farms and Stalin, I disagree with you. Of course, the form of organization in the countryside is not the most successful, but note that the collective farms received tractors and land for free before the war. And the land and the tractor. That is, the thinking of a villager is quite simple - it is good that it is free and for a fool. And when the state demanded to hand over the grain harvested on free land and free tractors, the villagers began to hide it (grain). Have you seen somewhere that land was distributed free of charge? Let our "advanced" peasantry not cry too much. The fact that the kulaks were destroyed is disgusting. This category of toilers of the earth would destroy the lazy as a class. They just wouldn’t be allowed to steal. And under the union, the collective farms worked as hard as they stole the collective farm goods. So, here is a very controversial question ...
      1. Alexfly
        Alexfly 4 December 2020 19: 18
        0
        A bit of fiction: Collective farms, in principle, are cooperatives. The mistake consisted in the fact that the collective farms were offered to give everything produced to the state, leaving the producer 30% of the produced, which the cooperators could sell in the markets for cash, in the short term they would feed the country, raise agriculture and everyone would become "kulaks" ... Theft is a consequence of the impossibility of a deficit and a lack of solvency ...
        1. Andrei Nikolaevich
          Andrei Nikolaevich 4 December 2020 20: 12
          +1
          You state everything correctly. I agree. But then let me ask you, why were these "cooperators" so clumsy, economically? I have not seen collective farms in the USSR with their own mini-sausage shops, mini-elevators. Other mini-factories that could produce food or process their own. And this with cheap fuel, spare parts and fertilizers ...
          Regarding the theft, I disagree. You affirm that "Theft is a consequence of the impossibility of scarcity and the lack of solvency."
          But I have a different idea. Theft is an opportunity to steal from the state without fear of punishment. On the example of the same collective farm: As a child, he often stayed in the village with his own aunt. At night, she wakes me up, her three children, and we run into the yard, to unload grain from the collective farm machine (there was a grain collection) into the barn where the feed for the cattle is kept. The driver of this car is my uncle. Typical theft. We only stole from the collective farm. Everything around is collective farm, everything around is mine. And they were not allowed to buy this grain on the collective farm, in the amount in which they needed. And the aunt, by the way, kept 7-8 bulls, a dozen chickens, geese ..
          May God grant them health. All their life they worked on a collective farm and fed such a herd. And they helped me, a student.
          1. Alexfly
            Alexfly 5 December 2020 12: 35
            0
            So after all, the collective farm did not have a surplus to sell at a cheap price to its workers .. Remained for sowing, etc., the accounting was weak and the punishment was rare. In the correct collective farms, they did not steal especially, but you could always get hold of a good chairman, and grain, and potatoes, and meat ... through the cashier ... But there were few of them ... But in the countryside, it is true, the people kept to their courtyard ..
          2. Sergej1972
            Sergej1972 5 December 2020 14: 13
            +1
            7-8 adult bulls were legally impossible to have, this exceeded the norm established by the Charter of the agricultural cartel. Only if an agreement on fattening was concluded, but then the collective farm had to help with grain, feed, hay. Strange, of course, the ratio, 7-8 bulls and two dozen chickens.) In most cases, there was a cow, 1-2 bull calves and (or) heifers, a pig or hog (there could be piglets), 30-40 hens, two dozen ducks, a dozen geese. Some had goats or sheep, and many kept rabbits. Collective farm shepherds and shepherds had the right to keep a larger number of large or small horned livestock, graves to graze it together with the collective farm herd.
            1. Andrei Nikolaevich
              Andrei Nikolaevich 5 December 2020 14: 20
              0
              That's it. It was impossible to keep 7-8 bulls. Please explain to me why? If a person wants and can keep them. From these prohibitions, there was an eternal deficit. Now private traders are holding. And nothing. Meat on the shelves is full. Why wasn't it possible before? Did bulls threaten the state's defenses?)
              1. Sergej1972
                Sergej1972 5 December 2020 17: 18
                0
                It was believed that caring for so many cattle distracted too much from work on the collective farm. Plus, they were probably afraid that people would earn too much.
          3. Sergej1972
            Sergej1972 5 December 2020 17: 30
            0
            There was no sense in mini-elevators either then or in our time. There was a grain flow, there the grain was dried and temporarily stored before being sent to the elevators. Small enterprises for the processing of agricultural raw materials were in the late Soviet period in some collective farms in the Baltic republics, Moldavia. In the labor-surplus regions of the Transcaucasia, the North Caucasus, Western Ukraine, small enterprises for sewing clothes, shoes, etc. were created on collective farms. But in Central Russia, Belarus, in most of the territory of Ukraine, that is, in regions experiencing a labor shortage in rural areas, this, although not prohibited, was not particularly encouraged. Since the 80s. they began to call for the creation of such industries everywhere, but something did not work out.
      2. grindz
        grindz 4 December 2020 23: 50
        0
        Nobody gave a tractor for free to the peasants. All tractors and combines were run by MTC. MTC, on the other hand, performed work for collective farms for a small share. MTS could serve several collective farms. And in Stalin's time, collective farms were mostly small. It was already Khrushchev who enlarged the collective farms and transferred the equipment to them, destroying the MTSs. The efficiency of the use of technology began to decline, since there were few highly technical personnel on the collective farms. Hence the shots with rusty equipment and the cries of late Soviet collective farms that the equipment is unreliable and breaks down. Just hands out your ass. And MTS were such pieces of the city in the village and the people there were technically literate.
        1. Sergej1972
          Sergej1972 5 December 2020 14: 15
          0
          The first consolidation of collective farms was already under Stalin. To be honest, the first collective farms were so small that there was no particular effect of collective labor and its division.
      3. Sergej1972
        Sergej1972 5 December 2020 14: 02
        0
        Before the war, only state farms, state enterprises, which were few, but many times larger than collective farms, had their own tractors. And the collective farm lands were cultivated with MTS tractors under contractual agreements. Only after several enlargements of the 40-50s did the collective farms have the opportunity to have their own tractors. In 1958, the collective farms bought tractors and combines from MTS, which were transformed first into RTS - repair and technical stations, and then into the "Selkhoztekhniki" enterprises.
        1. Andrei Nikolaevich
          Andrei Nikolaevich 5 December 2020 14: 16
          0
          Well, with tractors, we decided. Clear. And that is very controversial. But the fact that the collective farms did not shine with a variety of products or their processing. And this, with almost free fuel. And about the absence of theft, in the collective farm, please do not tell. They stole. And on a grand scale. And now there is nothing to steal. Everything has already been plundered. And from a private trader, it's not really something you can steal.
          1. Sergej1972
            Sergej1972 5 December 2020 17: 03
            0
            Why is it controversial with tractors? It is a fact. And I did not write anything about theft.
      4. Andrey Krasnoyarsky
        Andrey Krasnoyarsky 5 December 2020 14: 34
        +1
        Remark: Tractors were not actually free. Until 1958, they belonged not to collective farms, but to MTS, and the collective farms had to pay for their use by these very Machine-Tractor Stations.
        1. Sergej1972
          Sergej1972 5 December 2020 17: 15
          0
          Occasionally, as an exception, rich collective farms seem to be able to buy a tractor or a car. Here are passenger cars (for chairmen) and trucks GAZ 51 collective farms could definitely buy since 1951. https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/3918045#id1724417
  16. The comment was deleted.
  17. Ros 56
    Ros 56 4 December 2020 16: 07
    0
    The Czech was mistaken, the Natsiks do not have historians, and this is Vyatrovich's crazy client, a fool, the doctors just did not come for him.
  18. Egoza
    Egoza 4 December 2020 16: 08
    +7
    Have you seen the map of the Russian Empire? Where is Ukraine? NO! But in the USSR, Ukraine appeared. And, by the way, in Russian schools the Ukrainian language was studied without fail. And, what a surprise, those who studied Ukrainian in a Russian school know it better than modern Svidomo! "Thank you" said the Ukrainians and crushed the monuments of Soviet power and especially V.I. Lenin, thanks to whom Ukraine appeared. So now what? Only in the words of Taras Bulba to answer: "I gave birth to you, and I will kill you." And poor Vyatrovich will be left without work, unless he has time to leave for Canada. They love them there.
    1. Andrei Nikolaevich
      Andrei Nikolaevich 4 December 2020 16: 50
      +1
      The Bolsheviks, with their motto "Proletarians of all countries, unite", "united" us with so much of all sorts of nonsense that until now, we spit. These same "proletarians" from the national borderlands sold all of them without hesitation.
    2. Gardener91
      Gardener91 6 December 2020 14: 49
      +1
      Quote: Egoza
      And, what a surprise, those who studied Ukrainian in a Russian school know it better than modern Svidomo!

      100 poods! The teachers of the Ukrainian language at my school (a special school for advanced study of the Russian language and literature) were from the western regions.
  19. svoit
    svoit 4 December 2020 16: 13
    0
    Quote: tihonmarine
    even kindergartens were on the same principle

    In Ukraine, for kindergartens, this principle was eliminated already in 1989 or 1990.
  20. Boris ⁣ Shaver
    Boris ⁣ Shaver 4 December 2020 16: 18
    -1
    If Ukrainians were oppressed in the USSR, how did they and the Ukrainian language survive in general?

    The Czech journalist knows little about history. Here it was necessary to use not the word "survived", but the word "originated." Or even "turned on".
    1. Dkuznecov
      Dkuznecov 4 December 2020 16: 38
      0
      "zazhralis".
  21. Fitter65
    Fitter65 4 December 2020 16: 37
    +6
    I have a sin, not a big truth, I was born in the city of Poltava of the Ukrainian SSR, although when I was about three years old my mother went with me to her homeland in Siberia, in a place with me, respectively. I grew up inquisitive, learned to read early, there were not so many books at home, but there were, and half of them were in Ukrainian (I already understood this in grade 4-5). Well, in the process of recognizing my past, I found out where in the Siberian outback (the village of Chingissy on the outskirts of the Novosibirsk region) such a variety of literature in the languages ​​of the peoples of the USSR laughing ... As my mother told me, God grant her health, it turns out that in those years when she lived in Poltava, literature in the Ukrainian language was simply given to the load, in almost all stores, as far as I really don't know, but says that even in the Prodmag that I was against our house, they gave us books in Ukrainian, and even lent us just for nothing. By the way, "The Adventures of Major Pronin" the first time I read in Ukrainian, then when I got to serve in the SGV, spoken Polish was not too difficult for me, although there were some nuances. laughing good
  22. cniza
    cniza 4 December 2020 16: 43
    +2
    How many crazy people from Ukraine can be discussed, why don't we discuss the speeches of those who normally and adequately perceive the situation there at home ...
  23. Andrei Nikolaevich
    Andrei Nikolaevich 4 December 2020 16: 46
    +5
    Vyatrovych is a bright representative of 80 percent of modern Ukrainian youth. Brainwashed, completely. Intellect is a stupid rural boy who has learned to tie a tie and ride the subway. He has a tie. There are no brains.
  24. Wolf
    Wolf 4 December 2020 17: 01
    +6
    Vyatrovich does not know the difference between what is the language and what is the dialect of the language, he is simply engaged in propaganda, with a tsil to divide the big people into small pieces, so that the enemies have time to destroy them. So you can start and that Rusini in Uzhgorod is not Rus but Tim is more and not Ukrainians, and that they were destroyed in Ukraine by the Ukrainian gododomor is nonsense of the lowest level. Vyatrovich either does not know anything, or is simply stupid, or will complete the task that he received.
    In fact, Belarus, Russia, Rusini, Ukraine, ONE PEOPLE AND THE MOST BLISKY GENETICALLY SLAVES, THEY SPEAK IN ONE LANGUAGE AND DIFFERENT DIALECT. THESE PEOPLE HAVE ARTIFICIALLY SEPARATED THE ENEMIES FOR ALMOST 2 CENTURIES AS THIS Vyatrovich!
    1. Egoza
      Egoza 4 December 2020 17: 11
      +4
      Quote: Wolf
      Vyatrovich either does not know anything, or is simply stupid, or will complete the task that he received.

      You are 100% right this individual "works" in the sweat of his brow! Serves Judah's pieces of silver
  25. ioan-e
    ioan-e 4 December 2020 17: 13
    +1
    For example, Russians do not see the Holodomor as genocide of the Ukrainian people. In Soviet times, it was simply forbidden to talk about it. Any mention of the famine in the USSR became the object of close attention from the KGB

    So all the same there was a famine in the USSR, and not a famine as a separate phenomenon! So he knocked out a stool from under him, you fools! laughing
  26. orionvitt
    orionvitt 4 December 2020 17: 24
    0
    "Putin's goal is the elimination of independent Ukraine"
    This goal, out of their stupidity, was set by the Svidomye bloomers themselves. Putin only needs to wait.
  27. fa2998
    fa2998 4 December 2020 17: 47
    +3
    Quote: Svarog
    Czech journalist to Ukrainian historian: If Ukrainians were oppressed in the USSR, then how did they and the Ukrainian language survive?

    The Soviet government was too kind and democratic ... it was necessary to uproot the bender to zero ...

    It was even before Bender! In 20-30 Moscow began to carry out UKRAINIZATION. They returned from abroad "Ukrainian" scientists, writers, put them in responsible places. Grammar of the Ukrainian language, office work in Ukrainian, newspapers, magazines, the Ukrainian language at school, etc. The lands were slaughtered, began to speak MOV in places where they had never been seen before - Kharkov, Donbass and others. MAKE AN ARTIFICIAL NATION.
    Naturally, leaders of any nation are then born, including radical ones (Bendera was a boy then). Only the goals of Moscow are still unclear! request hi hi hi
    1. Tamparu
      Tamparu 4 December 2020 18: 55
      0
      Quote: fa2998
      Quote: Svarog
      Czech journalist to Ukrainian historian: If Ukrainians were oppressed in the USSR, then how did they and the Ukrainian language survive?

      The Soviet government was too kind and democratic ... it was necessary to uproot the bender to zero ...

      It was even before Bender! In 20-30 Moscow began to carry out UKRAINIZATION.

      Let me correct you. Not Bendery, but Bandera!
      Please do not offend the city of Bendery of the Pridnestrovian Moldavian Republic (PMR).
      Thank you.
      Sincerely, hi
      1. fa2998
        fa2998 5 December 2020 17: 36
        0
        I know about Bendery, it's just a typo. Best regards! hi hi
    2. Wolf
      Wolf 5 December 2020 16: 50
      0
      As if you are at the mark fa 2998, in Russia they have not yet conducted a historical assessment of the actions of Lenin, Trotsky and the leadership of the Communist Party of the Russian Federation on the creation of new art of the nation and where does this impulse from this impulse to create new nations of the Russian people as well as new "languages" and especially as a new PISMA created and reform PISMA, and why and for what and who did it?
      As well as the historical assessment for the example of Ivan the Terrible and who organized and for what falsification his historical role and significance. IVAN GROZNI WAS THE GREATEST VLADAR OF THE 16TH CENTURY ON MYRA, NOT ONLY THE SLAVS AND RUSSIANS AND REFORMS ON WHICH RUSSIA LAYED EVERYTHING UP TO THE 20TH CENTURY! ;)
    3. Andrei Nikolaevich
      Andrei Nikolaevich 5 December 2020 17: 55
      0
      Fa 2998, and the most amazing thing is HOW the son of a traitor, a policeman, became the first secretary of the Communist Party of Ukraine? How did he even get a party card? ...
      1. fa2998
        fa2998 5 December 2020 18: 07
        0
        Well, as they said, "the son does not answer for his father." For example, many of the first revolutionaries, the Bolsheviks were nobles. And this is excuse the hostile class. True, then many remembered kinship, and there was a category - a member of the family of an enemy of the people. To some, with respect, to others -on the Kolyma.
        One nobleman in the Mausoleum lies hi
        1. Andrei Nikolaevich
          Andrei Nikolaevich 5 December 2020 22: 39
          0
          I read somewhere, the writings of some kind of historians, they say Or that ours, was not at all his own father's son. Daddy is a nobleman, just passed by. ) or in the next room, I checked school notebooks ...)
          Here the nobleman Tukhachevsky is certainly in trouble. Although, as an educated person, he was obliged to understand that in the workers 'and peasants' army, there was no place for the nobles. At least among the marshals. The chief of the generalshaba is an exception.
  28. Incvizitor
    Incvizitor 4 December 2020 18: 29
    0
    It would be better to ask: why did this breakaway territory have such a developed production?
  29. Old26
    Old26 4 December 2020 19: 56
    +1
    Quote: Egoza
    Have you seen the map of the Russian Empire? Where is Ukraine? NO! But in the USSR, Ukraine appeared. And, by the way, in Russian schools the Ukrainian language was studied without fail. And, what a surprise, those who studied Ukrainian in a Russian school know it better than modern Svidomo!

    Well, on the map of the Russian Empire there was generally a provincial system. By the way, Zhirinovsky 20 years ago, or maybe a little more, also proposed the same administrative and economic division.
    There were also Ukrainian schools in Ukraine. True, most of the Ukrainians were primary (up to grade 5). They studied the language without fail. The exception was the children of military personnel. But nevertheless, although they did not teach, they were present at the lessons and knew, especially literature, better than the students.

    Quote: Fitter65
    As my mother told me, God grant her health, it turns out that in those years when she lived in Poltava, literature in the Ukrainian language was simply given to the load, in almost all stores, as far as I really don't know, but says that even in Prodmag that I was against our house, they gave us books in Ukrainian, and even lent us just for nothing.

    As for the fact that for nothing - I did not hear, although from 1964 to 1976 my parents and I lived in the city of Lubny, Poltava region. The load was given if there was some book deficit. For example, I remember exactly that those who managed to subscribe to the collected works of Conan Doyle were loaded with Kotsyubinsky's books.
    As for the food store, I have not heard.
  30. Barabanshik
    Barabanshik 4 December 2020 20: 42
    -2
    If Ukrainians were oppressed in the USSR, how did they and the Ukrainian language survive in general?

    The Ukrainians were at the head of the USSR, after Stalin! laughing The result of the collapse of the USSR .. Revenged well!
    Many in Israel sit and giggle at us ..
  31. Gennady Fomkin
    Gennady Fomkin 4 December 2020 22: 21
    +1
    That is why it is widely believed in Russia that this was not the genocide of the Ukrainians, but that the target was the peasants as such, regardless of their nationality. This is nonsense, because the affected peasants were Ukrainians, and this was Stalin's clear intention. laughing Female logic: "Honey, you're wrong." “Ah, I'm not right, so I'm lying. If I'm lying, then I'm lying. If I lie, then I am a dog ... Mom, he called me a bitch! "
     
  32. Gennady Fomkin
    Gennady Fomkin 4 December 2020 22: 25
    +1
    during the famine of 1932-33, the United States lost more than 7 million lives. "

    The Muscovites are to blame. laughing
  33. Gennady Fomkin
    Gennady Fomkin 4 December 2020 22: 27
    0
    2- chief of the GULAG KOGAN, third Berman, fourth Pliner

    there were no Russians at that time in the posts of higher
  34. Gennady Fomkin
    Gennady Fomkin 4 December 2020 22: 29
    0
    Firstly, it is very useful to write about the Holodomor in the United States more often - to the Americans, their vassals in the Tribaltic and Independent States. Secondly: in 1991 there were 52 million in the Ukrainian SSR; now, in Ukraine, about 28 million. And who is evil Buratino to whom? And in 1932 there was famine everywhere in the USSR and most of all in the Volga region. Only no one calls it any genocide-famine.
  35. Gennady Fomkin
    Gennady Fomkin 4 December 2020 22: 33
    0
    The lands of modern Western Ukraine were divided among several Eastern European states. The territories of modern Lviv, Ivano-Frankivsk, Ternopil, Volyn, Rivne regions until 1939 were part of Poland. The territory of the Transcarpathian region from 1920 to 1938 was part of Czechoslovakia. Chernivtsi region until 1940 belonged to Romania.

    Thus, none of the regions of modern Western Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union. But if we analyze the publications of the then press, including the Polish, Czechoslovak, and even the American, it becomes obvious that the problem of famine in Galicia, Transcarpathia, was much more acute in Bukovina than in the regions of Soviet Ukraine. Who starved the western Ukrainians? 
    1. Roman_LKW
      Roman_LKW 5 December 2020 01: 04
      -2
      Where did you find such nonsense? During the famine, relatives of the brother's wife went to the other side for food, this is the Khmelnytsky region, on the other side was Poland.
  36. Gennady Fomkin
    Gennady Fomkin 4 December 2020 22: 37
    0
    The Ukrainian-language newspaper Ukrainian Schodenny Visti was at that time published in the United States and was a print organ focused on the impressive Ukrainian diaspora living in the United States. The overwhelming majority of "American" Ukrainians came from Western Ukraine, especially from Galicia. And they, of course, were very interested in the events in their historical homeland. And from there came very sad news: whole families lay in rural huts, swollen with hunger. Typhus carries hundreds of people into the coffin, both old and young. In the village of Yasenevoe in the evening it is completely dark; there is no kerosene or matches,

    - reported the publication on April 16, 1932. The Polish newspaper Novy Chas wrote about the same. According to the newspaper, in 1932, 40 villages of Kosivsky, 12 villages of Naddvirnyansky and 10 villages of Kolomiysky districts were starving. The situation was taking a really horrible turn. So, in some villages, literally the entire population died out. People passing by by chance, entering the huts, saw in horror the corpses of entire families - from young to old. Sometimes the corpses were just lying on the roads.

    But what caused such a fierce hunger? One of its main reasons was the policy of Poland towards the population of Western Ukraine. It really can be called criminal. In Warsaw, they never really concealed that they wanted to see the lands of Volyn and Galicia populated by Poles, not Ukrainians. Ukrainians in interwar Poland were treated as “subhumans”. And this attitude not only took place at the household level, but was also strongly supported by the Polish government.

    The Polish leadership sought to create truly unbearable living conditions for Ukrainians. The policy of total discrimination combined economic, social, cultural and administrative measures. Thus, taxes were artificially raised and wages for Ukrainian workers were reduced, and gendarmerie and even army units were sent to extort taxes from the poor. The arrival of the bailiff was feared in Ukrainian villages like fire. First, he did not come alone, but appeared accompanied by guards or gendarmes. Secondly, he described any valuable property and immediately sold it for a pittance. I sold it, of course, to the Poles, since the Ukrainian peasants simply did not have that kind of money. Ale "zhurnazhezd")
  37. Gennady Fomkin
    Gennady Fomkin 4 December 2020 22: 38
    0
    it became possible to find the guilty countries of zp famine in the Russian Federation and Kazakhstan ...

    After such articles, I am not surprised that Ukrainians hate us. As they hated, they will love again when they are left without trousers. From hatred to love - one step. He doesn't know it yet laughing
    1. Roman_LKW
      Roman_LKW 5 December 2020 01: 43
      -2
      Why love you? You are just like a blessed one, no worse than a Vyatrovich, the same simpleton.
  38. 72jora72
    72jora72 5 December 2020 07: 22
    0
    Quote: StroiaBat
    That's right Sergey! Who knows who and the Ukrainians have a sin to complain about Russia and the USSR!
    Ukraine has always been a priority .. I am more and more convinced of the saying "Do not do good, you will not get evil .." in relation to the former "brothers"
    Do you call the then residents of Donetsk, Voroshilovgrad, Odessa or Dnepropetrovsk "Ukrainians"? Or did you have any complaints about the people who lived in the part of the USSR, which is now called Ukraine by an oversight? Or do you mean Galicia when speaking of "Ukrainians"? Do you want me to tell you a secret? the same Lviv until 88 was a normal Russian-Jewish city, this is me as a person who was born there ... but the fact that now the Ukrainian SSR has turned into one big "Rogul" village is the result of the collapse of the USSR ( put a hand in this, because they simply gave this territory to a bunch of scoundrels and murderers for "feeding")
  39. Gennady Fomkin
    Gennady Fomkin 5 December 2020 09: 31
    0
    Quote: Roman_LKW
    Why love you? You are just like a blessed one, no worse than a Vyatrovich, the same simpleton.

    Sidomy aki farted into a puddle, Really Colet's eyes? laughing
  40. Gennady Fomkin
    Gennady Fomkin 5 December 2020 09: 40
    +1
    Quote: Roman_LKW
    Where did you find such nonsense? During the famine, relatives of the brother's wife went to the other side for food, this is the Khmelnytsky region, on the other side was Poland.

    In 1932-33 Galicia was not part of the Soviet Union. But she survived a terrible famine, a real famine. As, however, and regularly worried for decades. It was the permanent famine that drove hundreds of thousands of Galicia residents into exile - to the USA, Canada, Latin America. Watch at least the film "Shadows of Forgotten Ancestors" or read books about the famine in Galicia by the Western Ukrainian writer Vasyl Stefanyk. Here are the materials about the famine in Western Ukraine from the German and Polish press. Therefore, it becomes clear the desire of the local Polish, Romanian and nationalist authorities to turn the arrows to the USSR and paint horror films that are presented to us today as freshly opened in classified archives. Famine in Western Ukraine. Berlin. 09.01.32 Newspaper "Deutsche Allgemeine Zeitung". “The three-year economic crisis in the country and the enslaving position of the peasantry led to ruin and collapse of Polish agriculture, which was already weak and backward. Arrears in agriculture have already reached 1 billion zlotys (1 zloty - 22 kopecks). The state, which lives under the threat of bankruptcy, is ruthlessly extracting these arrears from the impoverished peasantry. Especially fierce extortions fall on the Ukrainians and Belarusians. The arrival of the bailiff plunges the village into panic. He appears accompanied by guards and dummies; describes everything more or less valuable, described immediately is sold for a pittance. "
    Polish newspaper Novy Chas: “In the Hutsul region, the number of starving households in 1932 reached 88,6%. The property of Polish landowners during these years reached 37% in Stanislavsky Voivodeship, 49% in Polesie. On the landowners' lands, even in lean years, the peasants worked for the 16th or 18th sheaf. In March, about 40 villages of Kosivsky, 12 villages of Naddvirnyansky and 10 of Kolomiysky districts went on hunger strike. " The newspaper notes: “People are swelling with hunger and dying on the move. Hunger is especially fierce in the villages - Perekhresnya, Staryi Gvizdtsi, Ostrovtsi. Typhoid fever and tuberculosis quickly spread along with the famine. Until 1929, 16000 families of military and civilian Polish colonists were resettled from Poland to the Hutsul region. They were given 600284 hectares of Hutsul land. " laughingBLISSFUL laughing
  41. Gennady Fomkin
    Gennady Fomkin 5 December 2020 09: 53
    0
    Polish newspaper Piast, 1932. Hunger in Lviv.
    Polish newspaper Svoboda, 1932
    Famine in the Volyn region.
    But the famine was arranged by Stalin laughing [media = https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDfI_8XWkAEF_-N?format=jpg&name=900x900]
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  43. The comment was deleted.
  44. Growlers
    Growlers 5 December 2020 10: 32
    +1
    I will not speak for the Russians, let these words remain on Vyatrovich's conscience (if such a concept exists at all). But Vyatrovich invents myths faster than Goebbels and the worst thing he believes in them
  45. Alexander Kopychev
    Alexander Kopychev 5 December 2020 12: 48
    +1
    A Czech journalist asked Vyatrovich why, if the Ukrainians were so “oppressed in the USSR”, if the “policy of Russification” was in effect, the Ukrainians and the Ukrainian language survived at all?

    Here is not an eyebrow but an eye !!! AND WHAT? YES NO CHO ... The Czech journalist knows perfectly well why the Czechs and Slovaks survived.
  46. Viktor Sergeev
    Viktor Sergeev 5 December 2020 14: 41
    +2
    Where is the historian? Vyatrovich is a Bandera scum serving the Natsik, this creature has nothing to do with real history.
    1. Alexander Kopychev
      Alexander Kopychev 6 December 2020 10: 31
      0
      Where is the historian?

      The historian here is a Czech journalist! I "hate" Chekhov since childhood, they drank all the blood from me with their hockey ... laughing
      1. Viktor Sergeev
        Viktor Sergeev 6 December 2020 15: 15
        0
        But why? They created intrigue, this is a sport. Although I agree, they drank blood well.
  47. Gardener91
    Gardener91 5 December 2020 23: 30
    +1
    Independent Ukraine was strangled by the hands of the Vyatrovichi by the Ukrainians themselves.
    1. Alexander Kopychev
      Alexander Kopychev 6 December 2020 10: 45
      0
      I can now bear the imperial heresy, but I think that there can be no way the outskirts of the Square, already from the time of Catherine !! And "Nash Crimea" is not out of the blue ... It is ours since the time of Ochakov !!! With all my disrespect for VVP, I bow to him for the Black Sea Fleet Base !!! Otherwise there would already be the Zamvolts.
  48. Gennady Fomkin
    Gennady Fomkin 6 December 2020 18: 37
    0
    The general official history is all built on xenophobia. Strangers came and took everything away. The stranger is evil. And we will tell you right now who is a stranger, from whom all the troubles. Although at all times the primary evil usually sat under the nose, trying to portray the messenger of God on earth. Nothing changed.