Military Review

For guest workers - pensions, for Russians - freezing the funded part

143

A source: duma.gov.ru


Generous soul


The idea of ​​forming a common pension for citizens of five states was born back in 2014, and all this time there were numerous approval procedures. The heads of the Eurasian Economic Union agreed to pay pensions to labor migrants regardless of their place of residence.

In accordance with the protocols, which should come into force from January 2021, all citizens of Russia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Armenia and Belarus officially employed in the EAEU will receive pensions from the employer's country. At the same time, a pensioner can live in his homeland and receive money from another state, if he was previously employed there.

The main condition for calculating cash payments is regular contributions to the Pension Fund and work experience of at least one year. That is, not only hired workers receiving white wages, but also law-abiding individual entrepreneurs can apply for a Russian pension, for example.

Hypothetically, for an extremely active migrant worker, a pension can be formed like a financial pie from payments from all the EAEU countries, in which he managed to officially work for at least a year.


Naturally, the main beneficiaries from the ratification of such an agreement were Armenia, Kyrgyzstan, Kazakhstan and Belarus. First, the number of labor migrants from Russia in these countries tends to zero. Secondly, the average pension in these countries is usually lower than in Russia. By agreement of the parties, the pension is calculated based on the rates of the country in which the guest worker worked, and is paid in national currency, taking into account the exchange rate.

The only exception in this situation is Kazakhstan, where the average pension in terms of rubles is comparable to the Russian one and amounts to 16 thousand. It is much more profitable to be a pensioner with Russian experience in Armenia (the average equivalent pension is 6,2 thousand rubles) and Kyrgyzstan (about 6 thousand rubles). It is also more profitable for Belarusians (with an average pension in terms of Russian currency of 13,5 thousand) to work in Russia.

At the end of last year in St. Petersburg, the parties signed an Agreement on Pension Provision, which regulates all of the above rules within the EAEU. Deputy Prime Minister of Kyrgyzstan Zhenish Razakov spoke very positively about the agreement (which was expected):

“For example, if our citizen, having worked in the Russian Federation for some time, returns home, then for this period he will receive social benefits, which are then converted into a pension. The agreement once again confirms that integration projects within the EAEU are being actively pursued. It gives our citizens confidence in the future. Even working in another country, they will be provided with a pension. "

According to statistics, the number of pensioners in Kyrgyzstan is increasing by 17 thousand people every year. Considering the level of labor migration between Russia and Kyrgyzstan, it is difficult to imagine what part of pensioners will receive a Russian pension from the next year.

At the moment, everyone is waiting for the ratification of the agreement by the government of Kazakhstan at the end of this month. And (if it takes place) from 2021, the new rules for calculating pensions will come into real force.

Not only the EAEU


At first glance, the need for such a pension agreement between Russia and the four EAEU countries looks quite logical - the country has been experiencing an outflow of labor resources from the CIS states for several years. Every year the inflow of labor migrants decreases by an average of 4%, and the outflow back to their homeland increases by 10–15%.

It is not known to what extent the measures taken really stimulate guest workers to return to Russia, and even to work officially. But the attempt has been made. According to the calculations of the Ministry of Labor, in the next two years our country will spend about 166 million rubles on pensions for citizens of the four EAEU states. Of this amount, 91 million will be paid to persons living outside the Russian Federation. That is, the money will simply be exported. The remaining millions will remain for labor migrants living in Russia. If they wish to go home, the pension will follow.


A similar situation has developed with the unrecognized LPR and DPR, whose citizens since the spring of last year have an almost unhindered opportunity to obtain a Russian passport. At the same time, naturally, Russia assumes all pension obligations. Here, the 1992 Agreement on the Guarantees of the Rights of CIS Citizens comes to the fore, which guarantees pension provision for citizens of the Commonwealth countries.

Only now Ukraine was no longer a member of the CIS by the spring of 2019. And the Lugansk and Donetsk People's Republics were not accepted into the organization. At the same time, the Ukrainian leadership acted very thoughtfully with the exit from the CIS and remained within the framework of the 1992 pension agreement. Despite such a suspended legal state, pensions for residents of territories not controlled by Kiev, in the event of accepting Russian citizenship, will be guaranteed. To do this, however, a resident of the LPR and DPR with Russian citizenship will have to move to Russia.

Potentially, if all pensioners of the unrecognized republics decide to move, it will cost the domestic budget 100 billion rubles annually. The ratio of pension provision in the republics and Russia is simply incommensurable - 5,5 thousand rubles and 16 thousand rubles, respectively.

However, everything is not so simple here. It is not enough for residents of the unrecognized republics to simply obtain citizenship and move to the Russian Federation. It is also necessary to wait for the retirement age, which has not been raised recently in the LPR and DPR. For example, a 56-year-old retired male from Luhansk will have to wait another four years in Russia before retirement payments.

Retirement crisis


Against the background of all the unforeseen budget spending associated with the fulfillment of pension obligations, the decisions to freeze the pension savings of Russian citizens look quite unusual. In early December, the Federation Council of the Russian Federation approved a law on another moratorium on the funded part of the pension until the end of 2023. This means that citizens who work now donate 6% of their wages not to the funded part of their own pension, but to payments to existing pensioners.

This financial maneuver was first undertaken back in 2014 and was temporary. As you can see, the temporary measure stretched out for almost ten years and allowed the budget to save several hundred billion rubles annually on pension payments. Even in spite of such unpopular measures, the state budget is forced to allocate considerable sums to pensioners, although this is the prerogative of the pension fund. Therefore, it is necessary to save money by freezing income in the funded part of future pensioners. In particular, in 2023, such transfers from the state treasury, thanks to the approved bill, will be 669,3 billion rubles less.

This situation with the financing of pensions has developed for many reasons - a steady increase in the share of pensioners among citizens, an extensive labor market with gray wages and ineffective management in the pension sector. All this forces the state to take unpopular measures of raising the retirement age and manipulating the pension savings of citizens.

The most depressing thing about this whole storiesthat there is no way out of the actual impasse - the state budget will have to allocate huge sums to cover the growing deficit of the pension fund. This means that the pension of a citizen of the Russian Federation is now formed not only from his regular contributions to the fund, but also from taxes paid to the budget. There is no need to talk separately about the imbalance this introduces into the overall financial logic of the state's work - everything is clear anyway.

Why offend your own?


The situation with pension payments to labor migrants within the framework of the EAEU agreement looks at least strange.

In the situation of an unbalanced state pension system, an additional financial burden of several hundred million rubles will definitely not improve the position of pensioners.

But it will definitely add irritation and misunderstanding.
Author:
143 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. Bolt cutter
    Bolt cutter 7 December 2020 15: 05
    +29
    Like in France, please laughing Soon, free housing for visitors will begin to be built yes
    1. VORON538
      VORON538 7 December 2020 15: 22
      +1
      Why build? Enterprising Amur residents rent private houses near Svobodny and Svobodny, accommodation for up to 15 people, in squares-no more than 50 per hundred thousand per month. Arrangement-wooden bunks in two tiers, a common kitchen with a table and benches (all-wood , maybe even without splinters). Yeah, in the container they put a tank under hot water and called it a bath. Nothing like business hi And the newcomers don't need much more. No one will build anything for them, except perhaps a bulk in the forest.
      1. Bolt cutter
        Bolt cutter 7 December 2020 15: 27
        +9
        Until recently, the idea of ​​paying them Russian pensions sounded like a stupid joke. Take the experience of Western countries into service laughing .
        1. VORON538
          VORON538 7 December 2020 15: 29
          +3
          More recently, there were vouchers in Russia, MMM and other companies
          Are you all full?
          Except visitors hi
          1. Sergey Averchenkov
            Sergey Averchenkov 7 December 2020 15: 37
            -38%
            That was a long time ago. Stop shitting on my country.
            1. astepanov
              astepanov 7 December 2020 18: 04
              +38
              Quote: Sergey Averchenkov
              That was a long time ago. Stop shitting on my country.
              There is nowhere to shit - wherever you go, you get stuck. And you have a separate country?
              By the way, we have 7,3 million pensioners with full experience of pensions do not receive at all or almost at all. Don't believe me? Let's count. I am a working pensioner. I get about 50 thousand in my hands. A simple calculation shows that with such a salary (without deductions) the employer pays to the Pension Fund more than 16 thousand rubles a month. And the pension that I receive is less than 16 thousand. I get less from the FPR than I give. At the same time, my pension is not indexed - which means that the new Constitution, in which the state undertakes to index my pension, is nothing more than empty paper.
              So who crap on whom, venerable Sergei Averchenkov? I am law-abiding in relation to the state - but why does it not behave symmetrically and spit on 7,3 million working old people?
              1. antivirus
                antivirus 7 December 2020 22: 22
                +6
                for a laugh + to latrine and aircraft carriers

                at 94, the late father retired (he himself made room for deputies).
                Immediately, the deputy director received a pension not on deductions, on equalization. 380 rubles in 90g from the father and = 130 rubles.
                it is an injustice EBN + VSCh + Gaidar-Chubais.
                26 years old and nothing will change further.
                We are floundering in the era of primitive capital accumulation. it will not end with a set of lards Deripaska-Lisin-Shokhin-Aven and so on. while we all remember the student hostel with "777" and those oligarchs as poor students. we consider them equal. and they do not feel (!!!) responsibility for the country and people.
                1. Civil
                  Civil 8 December 2020 07: 54
                  +6
                  The head of the Russian Chamber of Commerce and Industry (CCI) Sergei Katyrin proposed to simplify the entry of labor migrants into the country during the coronavirus pandemic, in particular, to allow highly qualified specialists to come with their families. A corresponding letter has been sent to Prime Minister Mikhail Mishustin. This was reported by TASS with reference to the document.


                  If only not to pay normal money to their workers.
              2. at84432384
                at84432384 8 December 2020 00: 01
                +1
                I agree with you. The situation is absolutely similar.
              3. Sergey Averchenkov
                Sergey Averchenkov 8 December 2020 03: 26
                -9
                Who promised you justice? I'm not sure.
              4. Sergey Averchenkov
                Sergey Averchenkov 8 December 2020 03: 33
                -11%
                So you can shit? I'm missing all the nuances - can I?
              5. Sergey Averchenkov
                Sergey Averchenkov 8 December 2020 15: 50
                -1
                Again. So you can? I'm sorry I'm not one of those.
              6. Sergey Averchenkov
                Sergey Averchenkov 9 December 2020 19: 49
                -1
                I'm trying to understand you ... 16 thousand is more important for you than your country?
            2. Aag
              Aag 9 December 2020 08: 02
              0
              Quote: Sergey Averchenkov
              That was a long time ago. Stop shitting on my country.

              Write this to those who do it.
          2. pmkemcity
            pmkemcity 8 December 2020 06: 26
            +2
            Quote: VORON538
            More recently, there were vouchers in Russia, MMM and other companies
            Are you all full?

            In Russia and now there is "Alfa-insurance" - why not MMM? The scam of the last three years, where almost all banks were brought up, is a vivid confirmation of this.
            1. Nastia makarova
              Nastia makarova 8 December 2020 12: 20
              -4
              what is wrong with alpha insurance ????
              1. pmkemcity
                pmkemcity 8 December 2020 13: 13
                +1
                And you do not know?
                According to the Bank of Russia, this year the number of complaints from individuals about investment life insurance (ILI) has doubled. Most of the claims of policy buyers relate to incomplete or distorted information about this financial product provided by the selling banks.

                The International Confederation of Consumer Societies (ConfOP) examined the websites of the largest credit organizations for the correctness of information on investment life insurance. For the study, banks were selected from the top 20 in the rating "Banks.Ru". The sample included Sberbank, Rosselkhozbank, Raiffeisenbank, Home Credit Bank, Russian Standard, Vostochny Bank, Uralsib, Credit Bank of Moscow, UniCredit Bank.
                According to the monitoring results, it turned out that seven out of nine banks (with the exception of Sberbank and Raiffeisenbank) promise guaranteed income on investment life insurance, while eight credit institutions (except Sberbank) speak about the reliability of such investments, which does not correspond to the real state of affairs.
                Also, in relation to investment life insurance, the deposit insurance system does not operate, which provides for a 100% refund (up to 1,4 million rubles) in the event of a bankruptcy of a credit institution.
                The grandmother comes to the bank to put on a deposit. An employee of a bank (not an insurance one!), Like saying good, here is with such an income (11-17%), and slips papers to the grandmother. She, thinking that she is putting money on a deposit, for three years that way, signs, and brings her "coffin" to the bank's cash desk. When she comes to the bank three years later, they tell her, they say, why did she go to the insurance company, and to the insurance company, they often send her away so that the grandmother would go longer, and only then, sometimes after the trial, they give her her hard-earned money, of course, without " investment income ".
                1. Nastia makarova
                  Nastia makarova 8 December 2020 13: 23
                  -4
                  no, not in the know, is it possible that someone else is insured by VHI ??? or carries money to the bank? are there any stupid people left?
                  1. pmkemcity
                    pmkemcity 8 December 2020 13: 32
                    +4
                    Quote: Nastia Makarova
                    are there any stupid people left?

                    This song will be eternal ...
                    You don’t need a knife on a fool, you’ll sing along to him a little, and do with him what you like!
              2. pmkemcity
                pmkemcity 19 December 2020 14: 20
                0
                Quote: Nastia Makarova
                what is wrong with alpha insurance ????

        2. Overlock
          Overlock 7 December 2020 16: 01
          +45
          Quote: Bolt Cutter
          Until recently, the idea of ​​paying them Russian pensions sounded like a stupid joke. Take the experience of Western countries into service

          Israelis have been paid their pension for a long time. A friend called from Toronto yesterday. Russia has assigned him a pension of 11 thousand, despite the fact that they have never lived in Russia.
          1. andreykolesov123
            andreykolesov123 8 December 2020 13: 52
            +4
            Quote: Overlock
            Israelis have been paid their pension for a long time.

            Well settled down. Both the USA and Russia are milked. And then they shoot down Russian retirement planes.
        3. Escobar
          Escobar 7 December 2020 16: 22
          +22
          And I wonder how long the people will give it. Raising the retirement age, grabbing it, raising the VAT — grabbing it, and right now we’ll pay our pensions to newcomers!
          1. Akuzenka
            Akuzenka 8 December 2020 12: 33
            +2
            Always. The authorities are vigilant that no effective forces are formed against the capitalists. This is not a "terrible USSR" for you, they will democratically slaughter the leader and his associates in a gateway, and that's it. No threat to capital.
        4. Starover_Z
          Starover_Z 7 December 2020 17: 16
          +9
          Quote: Bolt Cutter
          Until recently, the idea of ​​paying them Russian pensions sounded like a stupid joke. Take the experience of Western countries into service laughing .

          By means of such a maneuver, a whitening of Gaster's salaries, their registration and official stay in Russia is expected. What I think has not been achieved so far. But here it is necessary that the employers agree to officially hire and pay a white salary, which is more gray and still pay taxes.
        5. Akuzenka
          Akuzenka 8 December 2020 12: 31
          0
          Why shouldn't they? Capitalism is the same everywhere. And the principle of its work, too, the methods are slightly different, but when the capital was interested in human lives.
    2. credo
      credo 7 December 2020 15: 44
      +14
      Quote: Bolt Cutter
      Like in France, please laughing Soon, free housing for visitors will begin to be built yes


      The author did not indicate the most important thing, and this is important - how many guest workers are officially registered at the enterprises of Russia, for which these enterprises transfer taxes.
      In fact, this percentage is minimal and employers do not want to officially register newcomers from the EAEU. Too many problems.
      As a rule, contracts are concluded with them, where it is stipulated that such migrant workers pay taxes themselves from their income. That is, according to the principle, if you want a pension from Russia, pay for it yourself.
      So this agreement looks more like a lure for guest workers, and nothing more.
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 7 December 2020 15: 56
        +12
        Quote: credo
        How many guest workers are officially registered at the enterprises of Russia, for which these enterprises transfer taxes.
        In fact, this percentage is minimal and employers do not want to officially register newcomers from the EAEU. Too many problems.

        Most are formalized. The FMS is now imposing such fines for illegal immigrants that there are almost no fools using illegal immigrants left. Another conversation is that they are paid more in envelopes, with a minimum official salary.
        1. credo
          credo 7 December 2020 16: 10
          +1
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          Quote: credo
          How many guest workers are officially registered at the enterprises of Russia, for which these enterprises transfer taxes.
          In fact, this percentage is minimal and employers do not want to officially register newcomers from the EAEU. Too many problems.

          Most are formalized. The FMS is now imposing such fines for illegal immigrants that there are almost no fools using illegal immigrants left. Another conversation is that they are paid more in envelopes, with a minimum official salary.

          I do not presume to judge which enterprises in Russia you are talking about, but in my experience of communicating with Russian employers, none of them register foreign citizens from the former republics of the USSR and far abroad as their staff. Only top managers in large Russian enterprises and no more.
          From the latest experience.
          We are checking two potential manufacturers for order and supply of equipment. According to the extract from the Federal Tax Service Inspectorate, we read that in both enterprises the staff consists of one person. We leave for acquaintance. We are all chinar, enterprises work and produce the products we need. A complete set of workers. We meet with the g / d, ask questions, and of course about the staff, and he tells us, yes, in the staff only I am the g / d and the chief accountant, and everyone else, including accountants, on contracts and pay taxes for themselves.
          Here's an optimization. So that she was empty.
        2. Vladimir61
          Vladimir61 7 December 2020 17: 15
          +4
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          Most are formalized. The FMS is now imposing such fines for illegal immigrants that there are almost no fools using illegal immigrants left. Another conversation is that they are paid more in envelopes, with a minimum official salary.
          Everything is simplified in the article, you might think that after working in Russia for a year you will receive her pension. Having worked for at least a year, at least ten, does not mean receiving a pension from Russia. The pension is charged for work experience and age, with all the ensuing calculations for a specific period and working conditions.
          1. Alf
            Alf 7 December 2020 19: 13
            +12
            Quote: Vladimir61
            Everything is simplified in the article, you might think that after working in Russia for a year you will receive her pension.

            It is not the amounts that are important, the precedent is important. Someone else's money, his own freezing.
        3. O. Bender
          O. Bender 8 December 2020 06: 17
          +2
          They pay a white minimum wage not only for a small part of gaster, but also for Russians, the rest of the money is in an envelope such as a premium, etc. And this situation is everywhere. In order for deductions to the Pension Fund to be, the minimum salary should be 30 sput, and the fine for an illegal is even higher By the way, illegal immigrants are not only visitors from the southern republics. Another option for deductions to the Pension Fund is fixed to the sane amount, and not tied to the salary.
    3. Doccor18
      Doccor18 7 December 2020 17: 15
      +2
      So guest workers are needed, very much needed by the current business. They work very well for 15 thousand, are satisfied and do not ask for more.
      And the local population does not want to work for that kind of money ...
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 7 December 2020 18: 42
        +12
        Quote: Doccor18
        They work very well for 15 thousand, are satisfied and do not ask for more.

        They are already asking. Moreover, they often raise the price higher, for a fool. They first knocked the local dumping out of the construction market, and now they are really asking for the market price. And the foremen have no choice, they have to hire. hi
        1. Doccor18
          Doccor18 7 December 2020 19: 11
          +10
          hi
          They first knocked the local dumping out of the construction market ...

          And not only from there. Our compatriots were squeezed out of entire industries ...
          1. Akuzenka
            Akuzenka 8 December 2020 12: 37
            +5
            Here is the ready ground for nationalist actions. Only the "yeast" is missing. But there are well-wishers.
      2. pmkemcity
        pmkemcity 8 December 2020 06: 30
        +2
        Quote: Doccor18
        So guest workers are needed, very much needed by the current business. They work very well for 15 thousand, are satisfied and do not ask for more.
        And the local population does not want to work for that kind of money ...

        Where is it? The local population works for 7 tyrs.
      3. ALARI
        ALARI 8 December 2020 11: 54
        +2
        There is a public catering acquaintance, guest workers work for him, everything is official, so it is not realistic to find less than 1,2 to 1,5 thousand a day. They don't want to work.
    4. Intruder
      Intruder 7 December 2020 20: 16
      +4
      yeah, exactly: (and then they will start yelling about their rights at every corner and this country has disappeared! Really worse than sad ...
    5. Senka naughty
      Senka naughty 7 December 2020 21: 09
      -6
      What nonsense, an immigrant WORKS in Russia, pays taxes, makes deductions in pennies. fund. All that he has earned will receive in retirement, what's the problem? Such a system has been working in the European Union for 20 years already, maybe the author will start showing them figs? The minimum tariff does not apply to guest workers, only deductions, so no "puff pie" as the author of this vyser put it ..
  2. V1er
    V1er 7 December 2020 15: 06
    +4
    I would not be so happy in the place of labor migrants) You still do not know the tricks of our system) As a result, you should stay. good
    1. VORON538
      VORON538 7 December 2020 15: 12
      +2
      This is true. Asians do not shove our Russian capitalists, rather, on the contrary! Either their NPF will burst, go bankrupt, or a one-day company will turn out to be offshore! Yes, there are sea options. They go to Russia to work, let them take risks into account! I still owe money to citizens, and soon it will be thirty. hi
      1. Svarog
        Svarog 7 December 2020 15: 44
        +23
        Quote: VORON538
        . Our Russian capitalists are not shod with Asians, rather the opposite!

        They will shoe our pensioners, and in addition, they will pass through and compete with those who work, the result of which will be a stabilization in wages, with a constant rise in the cost of living .. Guest workers are an absolute evil for workers and pensioners, but an absolute blessing for the bourgeoisie.
        1. Ronald Reagan
          Ronald Reagan 7 December 2020 18: 36
          -7
          And what does the "bourgeois" matter to your non-competitiveness?
          1. Akuzenka
            Akuzenka 8 December 2020 12: 41
            +2
            And what does the "bourgeois" matter to your non-competitiveness?

            There is a case. If you agree to work for food for the same work, you are competitive. But there will be someone who, out of despair, will be ready to work for even less food. The bourgeois needs such !!!!
      2. Alf
        Alf 7 December 2020 19: 15
        +20
        Quote: VORON538
        Here the savings still owe money to citizens, and soon they will be XNUMX years old.

    2. 210ox
      210ox 7 December 2020 15: 44
      +10
      I was jarred that there was no way out of the situation. Although one of the reasons is not effective PF management. It turns out that with an ineffective leadership, by no means ... what
      1. Akuzenka
        Akuzenka 8 December 2020 12: 51
        +3
        There are exits. But this will not be done. The first is to deprive the bourgeoisie of some of the money and give it to pensioners. It is clear how the bourgeois will be "happy". And they will rip off those who can be ripped off. Large ones will not be touched, they can decide for their money and parliament. The second is to restore the Soviet-era pension system. They won't go for this either, everything is so transparent there that you can't steal money. The third is to wait for a social explosion. Everything rests on the greed of the capitalists, the state will not do anything about it, the capitalists also sit there. Oh, I forgot, the fourth "way out" is war. Most likely.
    3. avg
      avg 7 December 2020 15: 46
      +11
      Quote: V1er
      I would not be so happy in the place of labor migrants) You still do not know the tricks of our system) As a result, you should stay.

      Yes, what tricks. Now, like mushrooms after the rain, various counters will be crawling out which will stamp the benefits of work experience, etc. And the grumpy officials will get another source of kickbacks.
      The USSR was destroyed, but we will continue to feed the republics, but now also at the expense of class-conscious workers. good
  3. Aerodrome
    Aerodrome 7 December 2020 15: 09
    +9
    The situation with pension payments to labor migrants within the framework of the EAEU agreement looks at least strange.
    ..burn the Lord ...!.
    1. Observer2014
      Observer2014 7 December 2020 19: 51
      -3
      "God burn". laughing "Killed" By the way, I read how "wait for Lord "What suits these oldies better.
    2. Intruder
      Intruder 7 December 2020 20: 18
      +1
      "ate a cactus and laughed, with smiles for ...."
  4. Narak-zempo
    Narak-zempo 7 December 2020 15: 10
    +6
    Why do our people still tolerate gaster who come and take jobs?
    In addition, they send everything they earn to their villages, instead of spending here and reviving the market.
    I remember 15 years ago we were having fun with our friends, driving Tajiks. I still have a bat in my closet - I'll give it to my son as he grows up.
    1. Bolt cutter
      Bolt cutter 7 December 2020 15: 14
      +5
      It was possible to change the situation, everyone had to
      do not rent them housing
      don't hire them
      do not buy in their stores
      Now they are already quite entrenched. What to do is not clear.
      1. Narak-zempo
        Narak-zempo 7 December 2020 15: 27
        -10%
        Quote: Bolt Cutter
        don't hire them

        Well, damn it, what's the catch.
        Although business is business, if labor costs can be reduced, then employers cannot be blamed.
        1. Bolt cutter
          Bolt cutter 7 December 2020 15: 32
          +7
          The labor force inside the country will buy your goods / services, and the newcomers will take all the money to their auls and complain later that there is no effective demand in Russia. But it doesn't matter, here's a house in Murcia, yes, it's sad .
          1. Narak-zempo
            Narak-zempo 7 December 2020 15: 35
            -8
            Quote: Bolt Cutter
            and the newcomers will take all the money to their auls

            So you don't have to pay in the end. If contacts with the cops and the migration service are established. And they buy food from local sellers anyway.
            1. Bolt cutter
              Bolt cutter 7 December 2020 15: 40
              -1
              And they buy food from local vendors anyway.
              From their own, from the diaspora. And not to pay is already quite risky - there are a lot of them and they are not afraid of the law. Even if so, the Russian worker gets nothing.
              1. Narak-zempo
                Narak-zempo 7 December 2020 15: 43
                -9
                Quote: Bolt Cutter
                And not to pay is already quite risky - there are a lot of them and they are not afraid of the law

                For whom is it risky? For the one who directly recruits them - yes. Well, these people are taking risks for their money, they know what they are doing.
                Quote: Bolt Cutter
                And they buy food from local vendors anyway.
                From their own, from the diaspora. And not to pay is already quite risky - there are a lot of them and they are not afraid of the law. Even if so, the Russian worker gets nothing.

                The main thing is that the money remains in Russia.
          2. Akuzenka
            Akuzenka 8 December 2020 12: 56
            0
            Oh, funny. The capitalist will pay whoever agrees to less. He does not care about "his" people, he has only his own money. He does not care that his classmate, an engineer, has nothing to live on. there is an engineer from Central Asia who receives so much that our engineer cannot support his family. This is capitalism. And the state "gives" social guarantees.
            1. Bolt cutter
              Bolt cutter 8 December 2020 12: 59
              0
              there is an engineer from Central Asia
              And then think, why is it that the boiler is twice consuming fuel, but it is not configured properly smile And guest workers are no longer cheap.
    2. Kronos
      Kronos 7 December 2020 16: 12
      +6
      It is not the Gaster who are to blame, but the capitalists for whom it is profitable to import cheap labor.
    3. Alf
      Alf 7 December 2020 19: 19
      +5
      Quote: Narak-zempo
      I remember 15 years ago we were having fun with our friends, driving Tajiks. I still have a bat in my closet - I'll give it to my son as he grows up.

      God grant that your son does not recognize such article of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation as 282.
      1. Chervonny
        Chervonny 9 December 2020 21: 32
        +19
        If Narak-zempo thinks he wrote "15 years ago" in his comment and the statute of limitations has expired, he is wrong. In this case, because of his comment, he already faces two articles. 282 part 2 point a (the article deals with the CPE) and 280 (the article deals with the FSB)
    4. Intruder
      Intruder 7 December 2020 20: 19
      +1
      Better give him the trunk for his 18th birthday! It will help in the dark in the area, somewhere ... maybe even save :)
    5. IS-80_RVGK2
      IS-80_RVGK2 7 December 2020 22: 43
      +3
      As I understand it, the unfortunate Tajik Dzhamshut created this system when he has to travel distant lands to feed his family? Obviously, he owns these banks, construction, trade, agricultural corporations that raise tons of money on his cheap labor? Knock on your head with a bat, maybe your brains will work. Although I have great doubts about this.
      1. Narak-zempo
        Narak-zempo 7 December 2020 22: 46
        -8
        Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
        As I understand it, the unfortunate Tajik Dzhamshut created this system when he has to travel distant lands to feed his family? Obviously, he owns these banks, construction, trade, agricultural corporations that raise tons of money on his cheap labor? Knock on your head with a bat, maybe your brains will work. Although I have great doubts about this.

        Let Dzhamshut sort out at home with those who do not let him live there, and do not go to take away work from the Russians.
        1. IS-80_RVGK2
          IS-80_RVGK2 7 December 2020 22: 57
          +3
          Let's continue your logical chain fascist. Then, according to your logic, people should be prohibited from traveling within the country. Let them sit in their village Maloye Zatudykino and deal with the locals who do not allow them to earn a hundred thousand a month. And then you understand come in large numbers here. Only then do not cry about the lost Russia, when it becomes the size of Dolgoprudny to Domodedovo. And the place of this Tajik in the labor market will be taken by you on much worse conditions.
          1. Narak-zempo
            Narak-zempo 7 December 2020 23: 10
            -11%
            Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
            Then, according to your logic, people should be prohibited from traveling within the country. Let them sit in their village Maloe Zatudykino and deal with the locals who prevent them from earning one hundred thousand a month

            No need to juggle. Inside Russia, a Russian, not a national, can travel anywhere.
            1. IS-80_RVGK2
              IS-80_RVGK2 7 December 2020 23: 23
              +2
              Do not engage in demagoguery fascist. By the way, if you are such a great warrior with us, what prevents you from defeating your local authorities so that you live normally and guest workers do not interfere?
              1. Salty
                Salty 8 December 2020 00: 14
                -3
                Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                Do not do demagoguery fascist

                Great, nedotank)

                I'm not a fascist. But your intolerance to the comments of others, others, even to me is unpleasant request
                1. IS-80_RVGK2
                  IS-80_RVGK2 8 December 2020 00: 16
                  +5
                  Should I be tolerant of the Nazis? You have not confused me with a civilized European liberal?
                  1. Salty
                    Salty 8 December 2020 00: 18
                    -3
                    Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                    liberal?

                    You yourself are an owl (s)

                    Vaenny, the fact that your opponent is wrong, to put it mildly, is obvious. Even me, count? wink

                    But this is how I would not throw myself as "fascists". Be careful, and everyone will be happy ... nedotank laughing
                    1. Narak-zempo
                      Narak-zempo 8 December 2020 09: 13
                      -7
                      Right.
                      Not a fascist, but a troll.
      2. nobody75
        nobody75 8 December 2020 09: 13
        -1
        As I understand it, the unfortunate Tajik Dzhamshut created this system when he has to go to distant lands to feed his family?

        No, not he ... Their Tajik gebuliks are former, who wholesale these same "Dzhamshuts" and collect them on the roof. And young gaster in this way earn for the kalym and the house in 2 - 3 years. If it were not for the kalym, then there would be no such movement ...
        Sincerely
  5. Hypertension
    Hypertension 7 December 2020 15: 11
    +19
    For guest workers - pensions, for Russians - freezing the funded part

  6. Galleon
    Galleon 7 December 2020 15: 14
    +16
    Well, if urgent service and study with us has ceased to enter the experience of new pensioners since December, then it is clear where the money saved on us will be directed. Unfortunately, the greatness and power of Russia is directly proportional to the suffering of its people. We cannot simply live in peace: in our own home and on our own land. It's good that life has an end, otherwise it would be a real curse.
    1. Narak-zempo
      Narak-zempo 7 December 2020 15: 29
      -17%
      Quote: Galleon
      emergency service

      So you are giving back your debt to the Motherland.
      Debt, ferstein? Born - took life on credit.
      Say thanks for no interest.
      1. Salty
        Salty 7 December 2020 15: 42
        -13%
        Quote: Narak-zempo
        Galleon

        Hammer ... a man on his own wave, talking to him is useless.
      2. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 7 December 2020 15: 59
        +8
        Quote: Narak-zempo
        Say thanks for no interest.

        And "the smallest taxes in the world" is not a mortgage? bully
      3. Intruder
        Intruder 7 December 2020 20: 20
        +2
        and pay taxes on the air !? Up to a heap ..., and then another for kindergarten, school and every year so, all on credit ...
  7. Varyag71
    Varyag71 7 December 2020 15: 24
    +14
    Glory to EP and GDP! (It's sarcasm)
    1. Aerodrome
      Aerodrome 7 December 2020 16: 38
      +5
      Quote: Varyag71
      Glory to EP and GDP! (It's sarcasm)

  8. nobody75
    nobody75 7 December 2020 15: 28
    -2
    Yes ... Article however ...
    Did the author hold the Kudrinsky tax code in his hands?
    If he had read it, he would have found out that the crisis of the Pension Fund is connected with the abolition of the UST and its replacement with insurance payments, which fell under the taxpayers in the "special regimes" (displaced persons, claimants). Does the author know a lot of labor migrants registered under the Labor Code?
    Sincerely
    1. Narak-zempo
      Narak-zempo 7 December 2020 15: 32
      -9
      Quote: nobody75
      Does the author know a lot of labor migrants registered under the Labor Code?

      Yes, not only migrants, it is also more profitable for ours to work without registration or on a minimum wage.
    2. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 7 December 2020 16: 01
      +5
      Quote: nobody75
      Does the author know a lot of labor migrants registered under the Labor Code?

      I know a lot. I also know many employers who hire gaster. Almost all of them are officially registered, though on the minimum wage. The fines are now sky-high.
      1. nobody75
        nobody75 7 December 2020 16: 59
        +2
        I also know many employers who hire gaster. Almost all of them are officially registered, though on the minimum wage. The fines are now sky-high.

        Your employers haven’t cut the chip yet. Or they work in one of three areas:
        Transport, Construction of housing and communal services. The rest, the advanced ones, outsource the work. This is what they do in Sochi. Hotel owner in Olympus. the park enters into an agreement with the management company Capwell Enterprises (Santa Barbara). MC employs Administrative staff and management. The line staff does not hire - it concludes an agreement with LLC "Tri Ashota" and transfers them work on the maintenance of the room stock to outsourcing. So all the maids and housemen - gastrobeaters are decorated by "Three Ashots", if at all ...
        Sincerely
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 7 December 2020 18: 44
          +3
          Quote: nobody75
          decorated by "Three Ashots

          So I am about it. Expansion to minimize tax payments.
          1. Svarog
            Svarog 7 December 2020 19: 16
            +7
            Quote: Ingvar 72
            So I am about it. Expansion to minimize tax payments.

            Here is an interesting video ... who pays taxes and receives subsidies and how ... and how we got off the oil needle ...
  9. paul3390
    paul3390 7 December 2020 15: 28
    +19
    It has long been quite obvious that the real enemies of the people are in power. Which, apart from personal immediate benefit, are not interested in anything. Which is consistent with the main bourgeois paradigm - the acquisition of wealth at any cost. And while all this brotherhood rules the country, nothing good can be expected in principle. For the sake of profit - they are capable of the wildest and most ridiculous quirks. And to disentangle all this is for us and our children ..
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 7 December 2020 15: 45
      -14%
      With the arrival of others, nothing will change money for everything and everyone will not take it out of thin air, and in order for it to appear, a significant growth of the economy of the whole world is needed and the work of local officials with the latter in Russia will always have problems laziness theft fraud and corruption have long been imprinted in DNA and fixed by the mentality ...
      1. paul3390
        paul3390 7 December 2020 15: 46
        +10
        If these others are also proteges of capital, the stump is clear, nothing will change. Only the return of socialism can radically improve the position of the country and the people.
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 7 December 2020 19: 14
          -8
          "If these others are also proteges of capital, the stump is clear, nothing will change." Capital is everywhere - in the whole world there is a market economy and not capitalists in power, I have not seen anywhere.
          1. paul3390
            paul3390 7 December 2020 20: 07
            +5
            Are you under 30 years old? Didn't you find the USSR? But the People's Republic of China - is there the oligarch's proteges in power there too? Oh is it? Something somehow does not seem like it .. And it looks more like - that the capitalist-billionaire there is appointed to fulfill the tasks of the party .. If you do not fulfill - you will immediately cease to be a billionaire ..
      2. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 7 December 2020 16: 03
        +4
        Quote: Vadim237
        the arrival of others will not change anything

        Why do you think so? Or do you preach the rape victim's motto "Relax and have fun"? belay
        1. paul3390
          paul3390 7 December 2020 20: 04
          +8
          From the fact that, as for me, any more or less sane person of the past 30 years should be quite enough to draw conclusions about the essence of the current system. And its prospects. But no - for some it is not available, and they continue to litter the brains of themselves and those around them with opuses about Putin's cunning plans and about the kind tsar, who will sooner or later be able to be placed on the throne. And here it is - the people will heal !! And the dashing boyars are executed by the tsar in fig.

          If you are satisfied with such esotericism - your right, but for the rest, why should you shuffle such nonsense over the ears?
          1. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 7 December 2020 20: 44
            +4
            Quote: paul3390
            only the rest, why should they shuffle such nonsense over the ears?

            I think he's here at work! bully And he has a divine gift - to see the achievements of Putin's team. Isoterics, and more! laughing
      3. Svarog
        Svarog 7 December 2020 16: 04
        +15
        Quote: Vadim237
        With the arrival of others, nothing will change money for everything and everyone will not take it out of thin air, and in order for it to appear, a significant growth of the economy of the whole world is needed and the work of local officials with the latter in Russia will always have problems laziness theft fraud and corruption have long been imprinted in DNA and fixed by the mentality ...

        Why don't you think highly of your compatriots .. the people are out of luck .. There is a lot of money, only they are not distributed correctly, 10% of citizens own 99% of all goods. It is enough to monopolize the state, the oil and gas industry, the production of alcohol, large-scale industry, and there will be enough money for everything at once .. and if we also put in efficient managers who would suppress nepotism and theft .. then prosperity would settle in every home.
        So there is only one way out - socialism and a complete change of the "elite".
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 7 December 2020 19: 50
          -5
          There is a lot of money, only they are not distributed correctly, 10% of citizens own 99% of all goods. What is this 99% good?
          "It is enough to monopolize the state, the oil and gas industry, the production of alcohol, large-scale industry, and there will be enough money for everything at once." numerous shareholders who, after nationalization, will not go anywhere, as well as their funds previously invested in the company and the enterprises themselves will have to leave part of the net profit for development - for comparison, to make everyone a minimum pension in the region of 5 - the budget will need another 25000 trillion every year add and this is only one pension, so nationalization will in fact help with only one problem, and even then partially, but everyone else needs the same, for example, the depreciation of fixed assets in Russia is estimated at 7 trillion for comparison, the entire budget for everything is around 90 trillion.
          "That prosperity would settle in every home." Well, right in everyone - this does not happen in life, and in the USSR this was not the case in the best years.
          "So the only way out is socialism" - It was already how everything ended in the course. And the change of one elite to another elite is compared to the change of sewing on soap.
          1. Svarog
            Svarog 7 December 2020 20: 20
            +3
            And how much will all this give - 5 trillions maximum additional to the budget, all that the state can count on in such conditions is half of the net profit

            Watch the video, the state spends money not only ineffectively ... but criminally ineffective and not just money, but trillions ..

            So there will be enough money for everything with interest ..
      4. Alf
        Alf 7 December 2020 19: 25
        +7
        Quote: Vadim237
        laziness theft, scam and corruption have long been imprinted in the DNA and enshrined in the mentality.

        Are you like that or are you not from Russia?
    2. nobody75
      nobody75 7 December 2020 15: 46
      +4
      Oh, they say simplicity is worse than villainy. If you mentally go back to the 90s, you can recall the main slogan of the Gaidar market: "Do whatever you want - leave us alone! We have privatization." As a result, two economies were formed: the people's - garage and oligarchic - corporate. The first was represented by trays - tents - tents, the second by privatized enterprises working for wear and tear. In the first, all calculations, including the salary, were carried out in black cash. In the second, the old Soviet Labor Code, and then the Labor Code, was observed poorly - poorly. And in the early 2000s, Comrade Kudrin decided to balance the PFR budget at the expense of large organizations on OSNO with the help of the UST. On the eve of the 2008 crisis, a "wise" decision was made to connect the "small-scale workers" who were exempted from the UST to pension payments. And then large enterprises howled ... As a result, they received a massive closure of LLCs and individual entrepreneurs, business fragmentation, hidden unemployment and the PFR budget deficit.
      Sincerely
      1. IS-80_RVGK2
        IS-80_RVGK2 8 December 2020 00: 03
        +1
        And how was it necessary? So leave millions of defaulters? Who are treated, teach children and other buns of the state at the expense of serviceable taxpayers? And nobody canceled the shitty demography and other desire to buy the first yacht.
        1. nobody75
          nobody75 8 December 2020 09: 01
          0
          What does it have to do with personal income tax, MHIF (this is where children are treated and taught) and UST, which has balanced the PFR budget? Not completely filling, but only balancing. All world revolutions began with an illiterate fiscal policy! If we recall the USSR, then only income tax was paid there ... But how was it necessary? And there was no need to create a two-chamber economy. No growth opportunities from a garage to Gazprom! There was no need to send information signals to the labor market in the 90s - about success in the private sector! Thanks to Gaidar's "non-intervention" in the wild market, about 10% of the working-age population does not have a paper work book! Glory to Allah, from next year everyone will be forcibly transferred to electronic! But in other matters, I'm now going into macroeconomics, and this should be done at the financial forum ... How was it necessary? From a military - political point of view, it was necessary to withdraw in 1980 the Northern, Central and Southern groups of forces. Close the parasitic CMEA and the Warsaw Pact. Following the Stalinist example, to abandon the draft army of the Napoleonic type and not strive for international trade in oil and oil products, where we were dragged by the smaller brothers in the social camp.
          Sincerely
  10. Reserve buildbat
    Reserve buildbat 7 December 2020 15: 48
    +12
    Great politics! Gasters take jobs, thereby increasing unemployment, receive a Russian pension, in short, destroy the Russian economy in every possible way. But Russian pensioners are on death row, they say, they live too richly. The FIU does not have enough money for the desired number of palaces for each clerk.
    It is necessary to shoot for such a policy.
    1. Svarog
      Svarog 7 December 2020 16: 05
      +7
      Quote: Stroibat stock
      It is necessary to shoot for such a policy.

      Right. For this is a real genocide.
    2. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 7 December 2020 16: 08
      +9
      Quote: Stroibat stock
      But Russian pensioners are on death row, they say, they live too richly.

      By the way, yes. Recently I watched the speech of Siluanov, angrily indignant at the injustice of the equal indexation of pensions to working pensioners. He is really either stupid or an enemy - working pensioners continue to pay taxes to the state, in contrast to those who do not work.
      Quote: Stroibat stock
      It is necessary to shoot for such a policy.

      Moreover, the entire government is in full force. Naturally, by a court sentence, for sabotage, sabotage and genocide of the people.
    3. Vadim237
      Vadim237 7 December 2020 19: 58
      -4
      "They destroy the Russian economy in every possible way" -This is how they also work at enterprises and participate in the construction of production, transportation, etc. so whatever they do, they contribute to the growth of the economy by creating an infrastructure of goods and services in Russia.
      1. Reserve buildbat
        Reserve buildbat 7 December 2020 20: 34
        +1
        I will explain:
        1. Do you know what dumping is? Look in the dictionary. Gaster dumping in the labor market and destroying all notions of the quality of results.
        2. Gaster take out billions of rubles from Russia with "home transfers". You have never met in advertising banks for these parasites such as "transfers with a minimum commission", "cellular communication with the house for only ... rubles", where often a call to some tajikistan costs less in a minute than to a neighboring region in Russia ?
        3. The FIU tirelessly steals money earned by people in Russia. Both the Russians and the Gaster. BUT (!!!) then the Russians will freeze their pensions, and no frosts for the Gaster - pay at the highest level. And again, billions of rubles go abroad, that is, they are excluded from the Russian economy.
        I hope you can understand this?
        1. IS-80_RVGK2
          IS-80_RVGK2 8 December 2020 00: 08
          +2
          That is, a construction corporation with director Ivanov exploiting guest workers and lobbying for the use of guest workers' labor is it not a parasite? And Dzhamshut plowing for a gray, or even black, not very great salary is a parasite. Ay, logic, where are you?
          1. Lex_is
            Lex_is 8 December 2020 00: 58
            -1
            Only construction corporations do not use guest workers, they conclude contracts with subcontractors and transfer money under contracts to an account. But already small subcontractors pay in black to migrant workers.
            So corporations - crap, they have prices for the volume and do not care how you can meet them, even with the Vologda, even with the Punjabi.
            1. IS-80_RVGK2
              IS-80_RVGK2 8 December 2020 02: 01
              +1
              And why this stream of demagoguery?
          2. Reserve buildbat
            Reserve buildbat 8 December 2020 07: 45
            -1
            And those responsible for the selection of personnel should also be appointed normal. We have won, the management company has taken on the replacement of elevators in the houses. Houses 1984 buildings, elevators are still Soviet. Changed to new Kremenchug plant (slow to the point of horror) and all related mechanisms and fittings. so the rails on the walls of the mines put gaster. As a result, from the first day of operation, the elevators dangle.
            So it is necessary to push wholesale. Some home, others on the bunk.
      2. Lyuba1965_01
        Lyuba1965_01 8 December 2020 18: 05
        0
        These gaster reduce local wages. They create unemployment in the labor market, which means that the state will have to increase the number of unemployment benefits. It is clear that this is a ridiculous allowance for chickens, but on a national scale, with an increase in unemployment, it is not sickly payments. At the same time, the taxes that Gaster will pay (and they will pay at a minimum, because their salary will also be half according to the gray scheme) will not cover the amount of unemployment payments. Unemployment increases social tension in society, which is fraught with any unrest (and this is at best, at worst - remember 1917). Gaster money will be spent in Russia at a minimum, the bulk will be taken abroad to their families. This means that their salaries are not will go to the country's economy. If the locals worked, they would spend all the money here, creating new jobs thereby at least in the service sector, in the construction of houses. Well, I'm not talking about the fact that Gaster can also raise riots against non-payment of their salaries, for an increase in these salaries, that the Gaster create their own diasporas here, which in some parts of Russia are already beginning to dictate the behavior of the locals, forcing the local population to obey their mentality, views and customs. This also leads to tension in the social and criminal environment. So gaster is profitable not for the country, but only for those "businessmen" who want to save on salaries.
  11. d1975
    d1975 7 December 2020 16: 20
    +6
    What the hell is that, D. Ashot selling belyashi and coffee will now be a Russian pensioner? They are smoking there! Chubais is firing from a cannon, instead of loading a cannon with them and shooting towards European democracy. What's happening ? Yes, 2020 did not give all the nasty things to the mountain! I have no words .
  12. 16112014nk
    16112014nk 7 December 2020 16: 37
    +3
    [quote] it is more profitable to be a pensioner with Russian experience in Armenia ... and Kyrgyzstan .... Belarusians [/ quote
    It is more profitable for everyone, except for their Russian pensioners. Ce la vie.
  13. fa2998
    fa2998 7 December 2020 16: 49
    -3
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    Most are formalized. The FMS is now imposing such fines for illegal immigrants,

    Fairy tales on another site! Do we have that on the paw, what would be averted? lol lol
  14. Sancho_SP
    Sancho_SP 7 December 2020 16: 56
    +3
    Why is it wrong? He paid contributions - let him receive a pension from them proportionally.

    As for me, collecting money from Gaster for a pension fund and knowingly not paying them anything at the same time - schizophrenia is much greater)
    1. Lyuba1965_01
      Lyuba1965_01 8 December 2020 18: 08
      0
      Gaster, if they want a pension, let them work in their homeland. Here they are already in the black - they earn for their families, no one forcibly drives them here, they themselves are eager to earn money.
      1. Sancho_SP
        Sancho_SP 9 December 2020 00: 12
        0
        Sure, not a problem. Only they (working in white) pay contributions to the pension fund.

        If purely racists are taxing them, then let it be personal income tax, for example, which is taken just like that, by the right of the strong.

        But demanding to pay contributions to the pension fund and not paying the pension after that is pathetic.
        1. Lyuba1965_01
          Lyuba1965_01 9 December 2020 09: 50
          0
          Why should they have only buns? They earn here, not in their homeland. So they pay this contribution at least in order to compensate for the fact that they have seized jobs where locals could well work. Let these contributions go, for example, for social pensions or unemployment payments to Russians. And then they earn here, taking places from the locals, and they send the money home, and, apparently, good money, since they come here in such a massive amount. Well, let them pay for the fact that they work in a foreign place and in a foreign country.
          1. Sancho_SP
            Sancho_SP 9 December 2020 16: 38
            0
            Oh, this song is about taking away jobs. Why are you giving it back?)

            And about taxes, read the text you are answering again. I have nothing against the number of taxes on labor migrants, it seems illogical to collect these taxes on ridiculous items.
  15. l7yzo
    l7yzo 7 December 2020 17: 18
    0
    well, so you can give out to someone, which will not happen soon)))
  16. parusnik
    parusnik 7 December 2020 19: 26
    +1
    "Here is a new turn that he brings us, abyss or takeoff" (c) laughing
    1. nobody75
      nobody75 7 December 2020 19: 39
      -1
      It is already clear what it is. Mironov demands to abolish the PFR and pay pensions directly from the budget. The only question is how to finance VEB, from which the "silent" money will be taken away ...
      Sincerely
  17. iouris
    iouris 7 December 2020 19: 27
    0
    If the country is suddenly renamed, who will become a guest worker?
  18. Dart2027
    Dart2027 7 December 2020 19: 34
    +1
    The main condition for calculating cash payments are regular contributions to the Pension Fund and work experience of at least one year.

    I’m wondering, how many guest workers make contributions to the pension fund? It seems that this agreement is just an empty piece of paper.
  19. bandabas
    bandabas 7 December 2020 21: 38
    0
    Mustache, paws and tail?
  20. Mmm.
    Mmm. 7 December 2020 21: 53
    -1
    They exterminate the indigenous population, bring in and sponsor all kinds of things, let's legally kiss them in a chocolate flower
  21. Million
    Million 7 December 2020 22: 06
    +1
    So who is the enemy of the people?
    1. iouris
      iouris 8 December 2020 11: 26
      0
      Quote: Million
      So who is the enemy of the people?

      And who is the "friend of the people"?
  22. Qwertyarion
    Qwertyarion 8 December 2020 03: 24
    0
    I wonder how much will raise retirement at the second stage of raising the retirement age? Up to 75 years old? Or right up to 85? Tears are poured in the media almost every day, there is no money, everything is bad ..
  23. pmkemcity
    pmkemcity 8 December 2020 06: 40
    -1
    Quote: Stroibat stock
    And again, billions of rubles go abroad, that is, they are excluded from the Russian economy.

    Everything would be great if "billions of rubles" were spent, but they are exchanged for dollars, which go away. Rubles would still return to our economy, and dollars - not when.
  24. Alex66
    Alex66 8 December 2020 08: 25
    +1
    And that the topic will be interesting for gasterbayters, 5-7 people will issue. 3-5 people from one family will work. extra salary in the pocket of the boss and 1-2 experience and pension. Such a scheme was told to me in Ukraine by miners who had never been to the mine before.
  25. Valerikk
    Valerikk 8 December 2020 21: 14
    0
    It looks like a belated and therefore extremely clumsy attempt to keep these countries from completely disconnecting from Russia.
  26. Comrade Kim
    Comrade Kim 9 December 2020 15: 58
    0
    Quote: Bolt Cutter
    Until recently, the idea of ​​paying them Russian pensions sounded like a stupid joke. Take the experience of Western countries into service laughing .

    Not all countries.

    In many countries, they protect their citizens. In Italy, France, Spain, you cannot hire not only a migrant, but even a resident of another region! Will take priority from local citizens.
    In addition, there are very impressive fines for hiring illegal immigrants.
    The fact that they let in migrants of another field is a berry.
    In our country, on the contrary, the business brings in hordes of migrants, and the government gives them the benefits of the indigenous people of Russia!
    In some spheres of the economy, the authorities "achieved" monstrous proportions, for example, in Moscow there are still 65-70% of migrants! At construction sites, human beings are about 58% of migrants.
    When construction sites got up because of Covid, the developers pressed our Sobyan like a mosquito. The threat of hungry hordes of rapists and murderers (developers threatened to refuse to pay builders) whitewashed the fear of Covid, and construction began to work again.
    And such examples are innumerable.
    It’s boring for every official and developer to add a hundred other migrants to the Rublevsky Castle.
    Let's see how their wives and children are protected from such a neighborhood.
  27. Alimzhan Juraev
    Alimzhan Juraev 10 December 2020 10: 58
    +1
    INFORMATION FOR MEDITATION:

    The migrant pays for:
    medical examination up to 4000 rubles;
    Compulsory medical insurance policy up to 2000 rubles;
    Language certificate 5000 rubles;
    Monthly advance payment up to 5000 rubles (depending on the region) -60 rubles. per year;
    Services of firms (controlled by the Main Directorate for Migration Issues of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the Russian Federation. From 3000 rubles to 15 rubles, depending on the region.
    The employer has to pay for each foreign worker employed by him:
    (cf. salary if 40 rubles)
    -22% in pfr = 8000 rubles monthly, per year = 96 rubles.
    -5,1% - OMS = 2040 rubles monthly, per year = 24 480 rubles.
    -2,9% Social Fund fear = 1160 rubles monthly, per year = 13 920 rubles.
    -0.2% accident fund = 80 rubles monthly, per year = 960 rubles.
    -13% income tax (minus the advance payment paid by the labor migrant) in Moscow 200 rubles per month per year = 2400 rubles.
    As you can see for the honey. insurance, a year for each foreigner is paid 26 480 rubles (2000 rubles are paid by the migrant himself, 24 480 rubles by the employer)!
    IOM report - in 2019, Russia received 11 million migrants. If, even of them, only half of them worked officially, this is 600 million people.
    These 5 migrants pay per year:
    4000 RUB x 5 = 800 rubles paid for honey. survey
    RUB 5000 х 5 = 800 rubles paid for a certificate of language proficiency
    RUB 48000 x 5 = 800 rubles an advance payment has been paid (the amount of the advance payment is set by the regions from 000 rubles to 278 rubles per month, if we take an average of 400 rubles x 000 months = 000 rubles per year) ..
    RUB 3000 х 5 = 800 rubles paid for the services of firms (controlled by the Main Directorate for Migration Issues of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the Russian Federation. (000 rubles)
  28. Alimzhan Juraev
    Alimzhan Juraev 10 December 2020 11: 01
    +1
    INFORMATION FOR MEDITATION:
    The migrant pays for: CONTINUED!
    For the year 5 migrants, total paid: 800 rubles! And this is if out of 000 million migrants, only 359% work officially, although the number of workers is much higher
    26 x 480 = 5 rubles paid for health insurance. (800 rubles are paid by the migrant himself (000 rubles x 153 = 584), (000 rubles the employer (000 x 2000 = 2000 rubles)
    A labor migrant who came to Russia to work and earn money! He has no time to get sick!
    ALL DISTRIBUTIONS MADE BY LABOR MIGRANTS AND THEIR EMPLOYERS ARE USED BY THE CITIZENS OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION!
    In the 12 months of 2019, labor migrants brought 18,3 billion rubles to the Moscow budget alone.
    Since 2015, labor migrants have replenished the Moscow budget by almost 72 billion rubles.
    As you can see, migrants are not freeloaders!
  29. Alimzhan Juraev
    Alimzhan Juraev 10 December 2020 11: 01
    0
    INFORMATION FOR MEDITATION:
    According to the report of the International Organization for Migration (IOM), published in Geneva in 2018, the volume of remittances from Russia amounted to $ 21 billion, approximately the same amount of $ 21 billion left by labor migrants in Russia (registration of a patent, advance payment, housing , food, transport, communication, passing a medical examination, medical insurance, testing for knowledge of the language).
    According to Russian media, in 2018, Russia sold $ 7 billion worth of military products abroad (and what percentage of the profits from these sales is not known!). This information was shared by the general director of Rosoboronexport Alexander Mikheev.
    In 2018, Russia, without any investment, received 3 times more income from migrants than from the arms trade!
    Part 3 of Article 62 of the Constitution of the Russian Federation "Foreign citizens and stateless persons in the Russian Federation enjoy the rights and bear obligations on an equal basis with the citizens of the Russian Federation, except for cases established by federal law or an international treaty of the Russian Federation."
    If Russia is positioning itself, excuse me as a rule of law, it must fulfill its obligations, and even more so, ensure the rights of the same foreign citizens that it has constitutionally secured!
    Do you agree?
    Or it (the Constitution) was accepted from the fact that Yeltsin and his team, in the figurative expression of the Vice-Governor of the Ryazan and Tver provinces, Mikhail Evgrafovich Saltykov-Shchadrin:
    "What did you want: either the constitution, or the sevryuzhins with horseradish, or to rip off someone?"
    Or, as they used to say, the same Vice-Governor of the Ryazan and Tver provinces Mikhail Evgrafovich Saltykov-Shchadrin
    "The severity of Russian laws is mitigated by the non-binding nature of their execution"?
    All the deductions I have named have been made to these funds for more than two decades.
    Foreign citizens, pensions and allowances are only paid only if he has a residence permit in the Russian Federation, the required work experience, and when it reaches the age-appropriate, and submit to them, confirmation by an authorized body of the state, the citizen, which he is, contributions to the RELATED FUNDS.
    ALL DISTRIBUTIONS MADE BY LABOR MIGRANTS AND THEIR EMPLOYERS ARE USED BY THE CITIZENS of the Russian Federation!
  30. Alimzhan Juraev
    Alimzhan Juraev 10 December 2020 11: 02
    0
    INFORMATION FOR MEDITATION:
    In accordance with Part 4 of Art. 15 of the Constitution of the Russian Federation, the generally recognized principles and norms of international law and international treaties of the Russian Federation are an integral part of its legal system. If an international treaty of the Russian Federation establishes rules other than those provided by law, then the rules of the international treaty are applied.
    In accordance with Part 1 of Art. 39 of the Constitution of the Russian Federation "everyone is guaranteed social security by age, in the event of illness, disability, loss of a breadwinner, for raising children and in other cases established by law."
    According to Part 3 of Art. 62 of the Constitution of the Russian Federation "foreign citizens and stateless persons in the Russian Federation enjoy the rights and bear obligations on an equal basis with the citizens of the Russian Federation, except in cases established by federal law or an international treaty of the Russian Federation."
    In this case, such an INTERNATIONAL TREATY is the "Agreement on guarantees of the rights of citizens of the member states of the Commonwealth of Independent States in the field of pension provision" dated 13.03.1992.
    In accordance with part 2 of article 6 "AGREEMENT ON GUARANTEES OF THE RIGHTS OF CITIZENS OF THE STATES OF THE COMMONWEALTH OF INDEPENDENT STATES IN THE FIELD OF PENSION SECURITY" dated March 13, 1992:
    “To establish the right to a pension, including pensions on preferential terms and for length of service, citizens of the states parties to the Agreement shall take into account the length of service acquired on the territory of any of these states, as well as on the territory of the former USSR during the period prior to the entry into force of this Agreement »And takes into account the length of service acquired on the territory of the member states of the Agreement, as well as on the territory of the former USSR.
  31. Alimzhan Juraev
    Alimzhan Juraev 10 December 2020 11: 04
    0
    INFORMATION FOR MEDITATION:
    According to the Decision of the Economic Court of the Commonwealth of Independent States of April 7, 2005 N 01-1 / 6-04: "On the interpretation of the Agreement on guarantees of the rights of citizens of the member states of the Commonwealth of Independent States in the field of pension provision of March 13, 1992".
    (http://adilet.zan.kz/rus/docs/H050000438_)

    “At the request of the CIS Executive Committee, give the following interpretation of the application of paragraph 2 of Article 6 of the Agreement on guarantees of the rights of citizens of the member states of the Commonwealth of Independent States in the field of pensions dated March 13, 1992.
    In accordance with the provisions of paragraph 2 of Article 6 of the Agreement on guarantees of the rights of citizens of the member states of the Commonwealth of Independent States in the field of pension provision of March 13, 1992, to establish the right to a pension for citizens of the member states of the Agreement, including a pension on preferential terms and for length of service, taken into account:
    work experience acquired by citizens on the territory of any of the states parties to the Agreement;
    work experience acquired by citizens on the territory of the former USSR during the time before the entry into force of the Agreement.
    The provision of paragraph 2 of Article 6 of the Agreement on Guarantees of the Rights of Citizens of the Member States of the Commonwealth of Independent States in the Field of Pensions of March 13, 1992, concerning the accounting of the length of service acquired by citizens on the territory of any of the States Parties to the Agreement, is valid only in relation to the States Parties to the Agreement establishing the right to a pension.
    Accounting for the length of service acquired by citizens on the territory of states that have not signed the Agreement of March 13, 1992 is regulated by bilateral agreements concluded by the respective member states of the Commonwealth.
    The states parties to the Agreement on guarantees of the rights of citizens of the member states of the Commonwealth of Independent States in the field of pension provision of March 13, 1992, in accordance with the provisions of paragraph 2 of Article 6, must take into account the length of service acquired by citizens on the territory of the states that were part of the former USSR and subsequently who have not become parties to the said Agreement.
    According to the Decision of the Economic Court of the Commonwealth of Independent States of April 7, 2005 N 01-1 / 6-04: "On the interpretation of the Agreement on guarantees of the rights of citizens of the member states of the Commonwealth of Independent States in the field of pension provision of March 13, 1992". CONTINUED:
    The member states of the Commonwealth that are not parties to the Agreement of March 13, 1992 must take into account the length of service acquired by citizens on the territory of the former USSR by virtue of the obligations assumed by them when they signed the Agreement on the Establishment of the Commonwealth of Independent States of December 8, 1991 and the Protocol to him of December 21, 1991, the Alma-Ata Declaration of December 21, 1991, as well as on the basis of the principles of international law and practice prevailing in the member states of the Commonwealth.
    Send a copy of the decision to the Executive Committee of the Commonwealth, to the governments of states
    members of the Commonwealth of Independent States.
    To publish this decision in the publications of the Commonwealth and the mass media of the states parties to the Agreement on the status of the Economic Court of the Commonwealth of Independent States of July 6, 1992.
    The decision is final and not subject to appeal
  32. Alimzhan Juraev
    Alimzhan Juraev 10 December 2020 11: 05
    0
    INFORMATION FOR MEDITATION:
    Decision of the Economic Court of the Commonwealth of Independent States of March 26, 2008 N 01-1 / 2-07 "On the interpretation of the application of Article 7 of the Agreement on guarantees of the rights of citizens of the member states of the Commonwealth of Independent States in the field of pension provision of March 13, 1992".
    (https://tengrinews.kz/zakon/mejdunarodnyie_organyi_i_organizatsii/sodrujestvo_nezavisimyih_gosudarstv/id-H080000361_/)
    At the request of the Executive Committee of the Commonwealth of Independent States, give the following interpretation of the application of Article 7 of the Agreement on guarantees of the rights of citizens of the member states of the Commonwealth of Independent States in the field of pensions of March 13, 1992.
    1. When relocating a pensioner within the states parties to the Agreement of March 13, 1992, the payment of the pension is carried out in the state of the new place of residence, if the pension of the same type is provided for by the legislation of that state.
    The payment of the pension is continued by the state of the pensioner's previous place of residence, unless a pension of the same type is established by the legislation of the state of the new place of residence.
    2. The periods of work for calculating the average monthly wage for the initial appointment of a pension, established by the legislation of the state of the previous place of residence, are not subject to change when the amount of the pension is revised in the state of the new place of residence.
    3. To recommend the states parties to the Agreement of March 13, 1992, in the context of the formation of various pension systems, to take measures to harmonize the legislation on pension provision of citizens.
    4. The decision is final and not subject to appeal.
    (Economic Court of the Commonwealth of Independent States: 220030, Republic of Belarus, Minsk, Kirov st., 17 tel.: + 375-17-328-61-08, fax.: + 375-17-328-62-07 e-mail : [email protected])
  33. Fonmeg
    Fonmeg 10 December 2020 15: 14
    0
    And your own strap will be tightened !!!
  34. The comment was deleted.