Waiting for Sbercoin. Why does Sberbank need virtual currency?

61
Waiting for Sbercoin. Why does Sberbank need virtual currency?

What I have is what I sell


The bank trades in money. All talk about financial instruments, securities and the like is from the evil one. Simply because all this is also money, or rather, surrogates for money. And when the whole life began to go online, and not only and not so much because of the coronavirus, money rushed there first.

The well-known, but now not so popular and relevant bitcoin is just one of the reflections of the real process. Sbercoin, it seems, too. Deputy German Gref on the board of Sberbank Lev Khasis very casually told that Sberbank is preparing to launch its own cryptocurrency under that name and its own universal trading platform.



The latter, however, was named after a fashionable marketplace, that is, a virtual store. And yet it has no other, its own name. The game with words did not end there, since we are talking about the launch of a branded cross-category trading platform. No more, no less. In simple terms, this means ꟷ go to the site and pay.

The plans to launch such two projects already in 2021 immediately pushed into the shadows the purchase by Sberbank from Mail.ru of a majority stake in the Sbermarket food delivery service. Despite the fact that such a business is now in a clearly positive trend due to the pandemic, we will leave the conversation about it to retail specialists.

Joint commerce


E-commerce is by no means new to Sberbank. But until now, in this part, his hands were tightly tied. An enterprise in this area, launched three years ago by German Gref personally, and today remains joint with the structure of Yandex.market, which spun off from the main domestic Internet search engine.

However, it is evident that Sberbank was sold at one time from the Central Bank of the Russian Federation to the government for a reason. They seem to have shifted money from one pocket to another, slightly untied their hands at the disposal of reserve funds. Although what the current government may, in general, have restrictions on the handling of money.


But how much freer are the hands of the leadership of Sberbank. But German Gref was in no hurry to take advantage of this, working more on the image and updating the corporate identity and brand of Sberbank - “just Sberbank”. However, the time has come, the realities of the third millennium are dictating. And then there's the pandemic driving everyone online.

Sberbank does not hide satisfaction with the powerful growth of its own ecosystem, although few people can clearly explain what it really is. In any case, the online store and cryptocurrency will be included in it.

As a result, according to Lev Khasis, Sberbank expects to settle in the top three in the Russian e-commerce market by 2023. However, it is not yet known whether this business will continue together with the Mail.ru Group holding.

It is also unclear whether projects such as Citymobil (passenger transportation), YouDrive (car sharing), Samokat, and Kitchen on the District (food delivery) will come under the full control of Sberbank's new structures. Until now, they were listed as divisions of a joint venture.

Industry experts believe that Sberbank was actually forced to start developing its own marketplace. The fact is that the Yandex.Market service, after its break with the parent IT company, simply went under Yandex.

Money to money


This became an incentive not only to "rethink the partnership format," according to Lev Khasis, but also to launch a project with a cryptocurrency. From now on, Sberbank will either assume full control over the subsidiaries in which it invests, or simply integrate it into its own ecosystem.

Sbercoin may well become a real pilot cryptocurrency project in Russia. At one time, the well-known businessman Oleg Deripaska had intentions either to engage in mining (that is, the generation of bitcoins), or to issue his own network money, but these plans were thwarted.

More recently, it was announced that the Bank of Russia is studying the possibility of issuing a digital ruble. At the same time, there was no question of any parallels with cryptocurrencies (Russian ruble in figures. Trend 2.0).


However, it seems that it is for the project from Gref that the law on digital financial assets (DFA) should come into force in Russia, which will start working on January 1, 2021. It regulates the use of digital money in Russia, including cryptocurrencies.

Russian President Vladimir Putin signed it, as you know, on July 31, 2020. But they were in no hurry with the launch because of the pandemic, as well as fearing inappropriate initiative. The fact is that in our country (and even in the business community) there is a stable skeptical attitude towards bitcoin and all of its analogues, including those that may appear in Russia.

Comparison is not in our favor


Some (more precisely, many) have more than once compared and compare bitcoin with financial pyramids, which is actually not far from the truth. Indeed, by definition, there is no single control over the scale of the emission of cryptocurrencies. It all depends on the number of participants in the system itself and their activity.

The mining mentioned above, that is, the generation of the same bitcoins, in fact, is a slightly veiled form of increasing the turnover of network money. As a result, not only and not so much their number in circulation is growing, but the exchange rate in relation to traditional currencies.

At the same time, it is extremely important to expand the turnover of the cryptocurrency, both due to the increase in the number of participants, and due to the fact that most of them have more and more of the same bitcoins. It is clear that due to the influx of new interested parties in bitcoin turnover, it is much easier to promote it than increasing the turnover of virtual trade and services.

It is this fact that brings to mind parallels with financial pyramids. Only for some reason, few people are confused by the fact that for some time now the US Federal Reserve has been working on the same principles.

Not at all embarrassed either by the fall of the American GDP, or by the growth of the already immense US national debt. After all, the guaranteed demand for dollars will not go anywhere for a long time.

Your word comrade


It remains to be recalled that German Gref, who is modestly withdrawing from comments about Sbercoin, at one time did not speak very positively about his predecessors - cryptocurrencies.

Not so long ago, when bitcoins literally grew by leaps and bounds, the head of Sberbank quite unequivocally abandoned the development of the cryptocurrency direction. German Gref stated not just anywhere, but at the St. Petersburg Economic Forum, that the bank has no grandiose plans to work with bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies.


Then he was much more attracted by another fashion trend - to transfer everything to the blockchain, that is, to implement distributed ledger technologies in their services. So far, by all indications, it has not yet been translated and implemented.

Well, our top managers, like officials in general, over the past twenty years (or even a quarter of a century) have become pretty adept at keeping their word. However, not to forget, but in time to refuse what was said unsuccessfully is a trait not only enviable, but even commendable.

Too many things change very quickly in this life. Who would have guessed a year ago that quarantine and lockdown would easily develop into an endless mask show of a planetary scale. And who would have known that remote work would be considered the greatest good by everyone.
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  1. +10
    3 December 2020 15: 08
    No matter what all these Putin nukers are doing, it always leads to plunder and impoverishment of the people .. For the henchmen of capital cannot and do not want to evade their main task - gaining money by any means. Desirable - not honest, as requiring the least effort.
    1. +17
      3 December 2020 15: 39
      I am a conservative. I believe that money should be real, and secured or gold and silver, or the industry of the state.

      I do not understand how you can be led on incomprehensible "coins". Yes, now you can buy a lot for them, transfer them into traditional money.

      But how is that? Why are we falling for candy wrappers and virtual pictures? This is ... Nothing! There's nothing there!

      I also had the idea that the first "bitcoin" was the dollar, in 1913, when the Federal Reserve System appeared in the United States. And she began to sell money to the state.

      Just think! Unsecured colored cut paper ... And you can buy material values ​​with it. And print as much as you like!
      1. +4
        3 December 2020 16: 21
        The bank lends money, with interest, and this interest gives rise to inflation, it turns out that people work and devalue money by their own labor, but the owners of the money do nothing and live on the labor of others. Well, this coin will be lent online, so to speak, electronic money, but the principle is the same.
        1. 0
          3 December 2020 16: 58
          Quote: Pessimist22
          The bank lends money, with interest, and this interest gives rise to inflation, it turns out that people work and devalue money by their own labor, but the owners of the money do nothing and live on the labor of others. Well, this coin will be lent online, so to speak, electronic money, but the principle is the same.

          Well, you don't quite understand the mechanics of the process here. request
          Take for example - you are a farmer growing potatoes by your own labor. Let 1 kg of potatoes cost 1 ruble. In your village, there is conditionally 100 rubles in circulation. You yourself, by your own labor, have grown 200 kg of potatoes for the new year. If you want to sell your labor (potatoes) in your village, it turns out that you can sell 200 kg of potatoes for only 100 rubles - that is, your labor will be worth 2 times bully Therefore, "new money" must be poured into the economy. hi The question is - how much and on what conditions
          1. +3
            3 December 2020 17: 37
            The conversation is not about a product, but about money, but a product and money are two different things. The cost of a product determines the demand, not the amount of money.
            1. 0
              4 December 2020 08: 10
              1. This Gref decided to "print his own coin", for which another prison, then for the bankers gold.
              2. 100% started to rob the Russian people. Don't go to grandma.
              3. You will see that he will buy all the currency for these imaginary tugriks.
          2. 0
            5 December 2020 20: 54
            With mathematics you have a lot of seams :-)) A kilogram of potatoes will then cost 0.5 rubles, not 1 ruble.
            1. +1
              5 December 2020 23: 37
              Quote: Nikza
              If you want to sell your labor (potatoes) in your village, it turns out that you can sell 200 kg of potatoes for only 100 rubles - that is, your labor will be worth 2 times

              1. Firstly - to me on "you" am (until we had a drink at the budershaft drinks )

              2. And secondly, what is the difference between my phrase, that 200 kg of potatoes will cost 100 rubles, from yours, that a kilogram of potatoes will cost 0.5 rubles ?! belay wassat tongue 1 kg of potatoes will be 2 times cheaper, right? ;)
      2. +1
        4 December 2020 01: 41
        Quote: Ilya-spb
        I am a conservative. I believe that money should be real, and secured or gold and silver, or the industry of the state.

        I agree with you that the issue of money supply is the exclusive right of a sovereign state. Or under state control. Treasury note - the issuer of the treasury, secured by the property of the state. The banknote - the issuer of the central bank of the state, is secured by the assets of this bank (gold and foreign exchange reserves, securities).
        In macroeconomics, the emission and circulation of money supply in the country is one of the instruments of the state. regulation of the market by the state (monetary policy).

        Quote: Ilya-spb

        I do not understand how you can be led on incomprehensible "coins". Yes, now you can buy a lot for them, transfer them into traditional money.
        But how is that? Why are we falling for candy wrappers and virtual pictures? This is ... Nothing! There's nothing there!

        For me, they are a contingent asset whose value is equal to current demand.

        Quote: Ilya-spb

        I also had the idea that the first "bitcoin" was the dollar, in 1913, when the Federal Reserve System appeared in the United States. And she began to sell money to the state.
        Just think! Unsecured colored cut paper ... And you can buy material values ​​with it. And print as much as you like!

        Not really. Until this year, the Treasury was engaged in the issue of the dollar. The head of the FRS (12 banks) still agrees with the state. Until 1971 or 72, the US dollar was backed by gold.
        Nixon, abandoned the provisions of the Bretton Woods Agreement and the "gold standard", the currencies of the participating countries were pegged to the dollar at a set rate, and the dollar to gold.

        Then there was the Jamaican Agreement, which determined the list of freely convertible currencies for use as reserve currencies in foreign trade operations (if I am not mistaken): pound sterling, German. mark, french franc, yen, swiss franc and dollar. The dollar was defined as the main currency in international settlements. The price is determined by the demand for it. Countries that have earned the dollar and presented it for sale to the United States, in other words, receive government bonds from the United States for it ...

        PS I am a supporter of the real sector of the economy (mining, processing and production). For bitcoin farm servers, drag is needed. and color. metals, production and electricity.
    2. +25
      3 December 2020 15: 42
      In 2009, Deputy Prime Minister Sergei Ivanov uttered: "People are our second oil." It didn't matter what he meant. At the present time, his metaphor, very strongly characterizes the whole thirst for profit of our oligarchs on ordinary citizens of our country.
      1. -4
        3 December 2020 19: 09
        Now our new oil is the IT sector, which will soon bypass the oil and gas sector in terms of turnover.
        1. +26
          3 December 2020 22: 39
          Quote: Vadim237
          Now our new oil is the IT sector, which will soon bypass the oil and gas sector in terms of turnover.

          My mother-in-law also invested in bullcoins - bought two bulls! belay
          1. -1
            3 December 2020 23: 16
            And they went for a snack just under beer.
    3. -5
      3 December 2020 22: 20
      This is not Putin's, this is the financial international. Coin word is the key to understanding.
  2. -23
    3 December 2020 15: 11
    Another whining about "not good for us," and "everything was gone."
    The fake people rage - that means the right way.
    1. +24
      3 December 2020 15: 43
      Quote: Carte
      The fake people rage - that means the right way.

      Aha, we are going the right way. Straight to Paradise.
    2. +5
      3 December 2020 19: 55
      Quote: Carte
      The fake people rage - that means the right way.
      Is not a fact. Gref's deputy Lev Khasis bankrupted the Samara Aviakor, threw creditors, hung part of the debt on the administration ... Now it is not safe to keep large sums in Sberbank. Comrades, keep your money in a glass jar.
    3. +28
      3 December 2020 22: 41
      Quote: Carte
      Another whining about "not good for us," and "everything was gone."
      The fake people rage - that means the right way.

      I am very sorry, but your Putin road leads to hell!
  3. +2
    3 December 2020 15: 12
    The crypto will only evolve. And these woke up, but it's too late.
  4. +5
    3 December 2020 15: 12
    Keeping up with the times and innovations is good. Although I believe that all cryptocurrencies are a shadow economy, without which capitalism is impossible .. But such are the modern realities, if they are not able to change them, you need to adjust.
    1. +6
      3 December 2020 15: 59
      Vladimir. You're right. Mafias expanse. No need to launder money. Mafias are fish pilots near shark capitalism.
  5. +8
    3 December 2020 15: 18
    This is another scam, but with the help of cryptocurrency ..
    1. -2
      3 December 2020 15: 20
      Those who have been in the crypt for a long time have provided themselves for a long time.
      1. +9
        3 December 2020 15: 58
        By the way, who quickly left the MMM, they ensured their own well-being ... It's almost the same here ..
        1. -1
          4 December 2020 07: 33
          Come on. It is immediately clear that you do not understand the crypt.
    2. +22
      3 December 2020 15: 45
      Any "business out of thin air" is a scam, a financial pyramid aimed at taking away the savings of citizens. And cryptocurrency, in my opinion, is another pyramid
      1. -1
        3 December 2020 19: 11
        For a pyramid, cryptocurrency has been holding on for too long for over 10 years.
      2. -1
        4 December 2020 07: 35
        If you think so, then any store is a financial pyramid aimed at taking money away from the population.
        Vaughn FIU forcibly seizes money from people, and somehow I don't see screams.
  6. -2
    3 December 2020 15: 28
    Um, I didn't understand anything, but if Sberbank, or China issues a crypt, I'll buy it for 100-200 rubles. I still bite my tailbone that I didn't buy a couple of bitcoins in 2012. I thought: a divorce for children. But I would have bought it, I could have never worked again.
  7. +11
    3 December 2020 15: 35
    Cash and drag. metals - the rest of the evil one
    1. 0
      3 December 2020 15: 39
      In 20 years we'll see.
      1. +7
        3 December 2020 16: 00
        About 20 years ago, we were also sure that the retirement age would not be raised. smile
    2. +19
      3 December 2020 15: 48
      Gold has always been and will be the most reliable form of savings. Yes
  8. +2
    3 December 2020 16: 12
    People are like oil. Money is made of people. Anything and everywhere. Fuck Sber, fuck in Muhoske ...
  9. +2
    3 December 2020 16: 21
    Quote: Ilya-spb


    Just think! Unsecured colored cut paper ... And you can buy material values ​​with it. And print as much as you like!


    When in 1988 we entered Varna (Bulgaria) as a cadet, we were warned to take the chervonets with you for exchange, they were provided with gold. Bulgarians were very willing to exchange them for their leva. So not all colored cut paper is useless ...
  10. +8
    3 December 2020 16: 24
    Are you not satisfied with how Sberbank is robbing you? We present to your attention at times more effective bundle!
    Savings and savings! Your money money disappears even faster and more invisibly!
    wassat
    1. Alf
      +4
      3 December 2020 19: 40
      Quote: stock buildbat
      Are you not satisfied with how Sberbank is robbing you? We present to your attention at times more effective bundle!
      Savings and savings! Your money money disappears even faster and more invisibly!
      wassat


    2. +4
      3 December 2020 23: 12
      Quote: Stroibat stock
      Savings and savings! Your money money disappears even faster and more invisibly!

      Did you notice that Georges Miloslavsky was chosen as the advertising face for Sberbank? ”Generally speaking, a thief and a swindler. laughing
  11. +4
    3 December 2020 17: 07
    Confuse .... understand it.
    To your advantage ... that's understandable too.
    For the benefit of the country and society .... but here, understandably, you can't name it !!!
    1. 0
      3 December 2020 18: 09
      Gref is trying to overtake the government with their digital ruble and skim the cream off.
      1. 0
        3 December 2020 19: 02
        There are many options, guess not guess.
  12. +1
    3 December 2020 18: 50
    Money is a means of payment. Who decides on the recognition of something (gold, paper banknotes and coins, non-cash money, digital or cryptocurrencies) as a means of payment - the state. Sbercoin is Sberbank's money, and cannot be a means of payment outside the country, outside of it, without the appropriate permission. Conclusion - Sbercoin is a means of a game where the beneficiary is known in advance. Of interest to those who like to play on the stock exchange. hi Or am I wrong?
    1. 0
      3 December 2020 19: 04
      Who is wearing the power hat, there is no need to guess .... she has long and thoroughly settled there.
    2. 0
      3 December 2020 19: 14
      To do this, Sber will have to create a blockchain system in Russia to control these coins and provide customers.
      1. Alf
        +4
        3 December 2020 19: 43
        Quote: Vadim237
        To do this, Sber will have to create a blockchain system in Russia to control these coins and provide customers.

        In order to fall in love with the population, the Security Council will create anything.
      2. +2
        3 December 2020 19: 51
        Quote: Vadim237
        To do this, Sber will have to create a blockchain system in Russia to control these coins and provide customers.

        If the state officially recognizes Sbercoin as a means of payment on the territory of the Russian Federation, then yes, one cannot do without a ledger (blockchain). But it (the state) will not agree to this! Who needs an uncontrolled emission center that violates the state's monopoly on the issue of money. By the way, for this reason, many states do not recognize cryptocurrencies as a means of payment (shadow criminal business not subject to accounting and taxation) hi
        1. -2
          3 December 2020 23: 19
          The law on cryptocurrency will soon be adopted, it will oblige to pay taxes on profits, so the state has already agreed to meet both the digital ruble and the crypt.
        2. +2
          4 December 2020 01: 01
          Who needs an uncontrolled emission center that violates the state's monopoly on the issue of money.


          Moonshine in the village of the 70s. Instead of a computer with video cards - a moonshine still. It is also a currency, also needed, also with a limited set of possible exchange - to cut firewood, dig up a plot, hire a car, exchange for rubles. And also an uncontrolled emission center. Why scared the attendants? Mining as mining .... wink "Bubble coin". But there is no inflation. No matter how much you drive, they will eat everything. Will not be cheaper. Not like dollar or bitcoin laughing
      3. +1
        3 December 2020 20: 19
        Quote: Vadim237
        Sber will have to create a blockchain system in Russia
        From January 1, the law comes into force, and Sberbank already wants to bring a new blockchain platform to the market.
      4. 0
        6 December 2020 16: 28
        Quote: Vadim237
        For this, the Assembly will have to create a system in Russia ...

        Have to create?
        Long ago laughing
        The most noticeable is not far from the Mozhaisk highway, almost at the entrance to Moscow. A full-fledged power plant and two huge buildings with powerful air-cooled systems. On all this there are signs "Sberbank" good
        And in 2017-18, the shortage of top-end gaming video cards was caused not by some "balcony miners", but by Sberbank, who bought everything on an industrial scale. bully
        Moreover, before that Sberbank had successfully gutted all warehouses with ASICs in Russia. Why didn't I take it directly from China - the question is, perhaps there were schemes to hide "points of interest".
  13. -1
    3 December 2020 20: 12
    Well, I don’t even know, to come up with your own money secured (and by the way with what?) It is of course fashionable and hype. Especially when the guaranteed sale is monopolistically and in an orderly manner provided by the state, it is also strong. And how convenient it is, you hunch over there for the pixels that will not cost anything to collect, and he himself will draw as many of them as he wants at the click of Papandopala. But the practice of all borrowing good ideas from the West to our country clearly shows that they are realizing this through a sit-down and hopelessly compromising the idea forever.
    1. -2
      3 December 2020 23: 25
      Most likely, the new cryptocurrency will be provided with gold in Russia, more than 300 tons per year are mined and why is there no gold in the bank bitcoins in the system and thus our crypt will be more attractive for investors, since control over the transfer and payment of funds will be controlled by not just a digital blank. the blockchain system will be a very convenient financial digital instrument.
  14. +1
    3 December 2020 21: 29
    Something has become a lot in our life of Sberbank. In all spheres. Sbermarket, Sbermuzyka, etc.
  15. 0
    3 December 2020 21: 37
    Some time ago, it seems to me that Gref caught a certain message that purely banking activities should be curtailed in the future - either because of more or less competent analytics, which showed that the banking sector in the internal CIS space will no longer be caught as before, in the next 20 years, then whether because of the growing technological competition in the banking sector - in which Sberbank has long looked often extremely archaic, and the social products it offers were below the floor (Sberbank's deposit rates are generally a masterpiece). As a result, Herman immediately rushed into some kind of digital attack, which in fact continues to this day.
  16. +1
    3 December 2020 22: 07
    Sberbank does not hide satisfaction with the powerful growth of its own ecosystem, although few people can clearly explain what it really is.

    Based only on my own experience, I can assume how it will all end.
    In the nineties, one of the first companies to build their own chocolate factory was Cadbury. Then it grew, expanding its product range and organizing its own sales network, including in Moscow. Things were going well at first, and in the capital alone, the company had about a thousand contracts for the supply of its products. Then it all got blown away, because it turned out that retail delivery was too specific and this global giant had to look for a company to take over this activity. In a word, even the global giant could not organize it the way they wanted, because it did not represent our specifics well. I think that Gref hovers too high in the clouds, and hopes that his good intentions will come true, as he imagines it.
    By the way, the biggest problem for the Cadbury firm was to find permanent workers for its enterprise in Chudovo, including due to the banal drunkenness and theft at the enterprise, which made the turnover of the enterprise the strongest.
  17. +17
    3 December 2020 22: 37
    If you look at Gref's ideas over the past couple of years, you get the impression that a person is losing touch with reality. The bank is trying on itself to try on functions that are not at all peculiar.
    1. +3
      4 December 2020 08: 34
      The most important thing is that they do it. If now many are surprised, then in a few years everyone will get used to the fact that this is not even a bank, but a corporation that really manages everything.
  18. 0
    4 December 2020 06: 35
    I read the headlines. "Gref has been working as Chubais in Russia for a long time", "Our children are the object of the attack."
  19. +3
    4 December 2020 08: 32
    In fact, the situation is much worse than just the emergence of a new cryptocurrency.
    Gref apparently has big plans to subjugate the Russian market for himself. I don't know if he does it himself or in cooperation with the "family", rather the latter. The real rulers of the country are trying to create their own structure that goes beyond the state and replaces the state. Gref's grapples with the Central Bank are known, in this case he is ahead and wins. Those who followed Herman's statements and understands his train of thought should realize that this is a big step towards digital slavery with the GG at the head. As a result, the family will rule forever, no revolutions are needed, all resources and buttons will be in their hands.
  20. 0
    5 December 2020 13: 26
    1 ruble = 1 kW / hour + 1 cartridge of AK + 1 kg of wheat and all the world's arithmetic ...
  21. 0
    6 December 2020 13: 59
    I love three hundred rubles articles! There is so much you can learn from them ... You can learn a lot about how degraded education in the country has become, how brilliant young people have become here, spanking texts without straining the brain, because there is no brain ...
    In general, if you answer the question why I will collect all this, then the answer is simple. Gref does not know what to do with the profit. No matter how much you drain Lebedev, you still get relatively little output. We need to invest somewhere.
    Our banks, in principle, are not able to organize investments leading to production growth. As they say, it happened so. What investments can there be in the surrounding thieves, which we call "big business"? In the best case, they will go wrong, at worst, they will steal, as usual.
    And the situation has somehow changed. It is necessary to organize something real, a general paragraph looms on a suspiciously close horizon ... But how to do this if neither you nor all the creatures around you are, in principle, capable of creative activity? And you can't give money to real creators. In no case. It is better to let the country perish than it becomes clear what the Grefs have been doing for thirty years instead of creative work. These clever guys just let loose ...
    So, projects with loud names are being organized, behind which they simply translate good into shit. People go to work, buy madly expensive equipment, build buildings and structures for the project ... a lot of people are busy. You can write bravura reports on successes, "breakthrough projects" and other nonsense for many years to come. Wonderful...
    What is bitcoin, what is cryptocurrency? This is basically untraceable money. This, and only this, is their value. Bitcoin has no more advantages, only problems and ambushes. Who believes that Gref will release a PRINCIPALLY UNTRACEABLE means of payment ?! What, there are no such alternatively gifted? Well, you must ... the Central Bank has cleared a clearing for Sberbank. Sberbank floods with money. And Sberbank transfers this money from accounts to the trash heap ... Well, who expected something else? Nobody ...