Russia proposes to change the procedure for acquiring weapons

Today, citizens of the Russian Federation who were prosecuted on criminal charges of participating in riots lose the right to purchase weapons only for a while. Given this circumstance, Russia is proposing to change the procedure for acquiring weapons.

This idea was addressed to the head of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the Russian Federation, Vladimir Kolokoltsev, by Anton Orlov, who is the director of the Institute for the Study of Contemporary Politics. A copy of the official appeal of the political scientist is at the disposal of the TV channel RT.

Orlov proposes to deprive citizens of the Russian Federation responsible for participation in the riots until the end of his life.

He noted that, according to the current legislation of the Russian Federation, persons who were brought to administrative responsibility on charges of violating public order twice a year are not allowed to acquire weapons. This also applies to citizens previously criminally punished for riots. But after the expiration of the term of administrative punishment, a citizen again has the right to buy a weapon, having received an appropriate license. He also gets this opportunity if his criminal record has been canceled.

Earlier in Russia it was proposed to increase the age limit for the acquisition of certain types of weapons from 18 to 21 years.

Comments

[GELEZNII_KAPUT]

Those in power feel that they smell like fried. I used to be against buying weapons for self-defense, now sometimes I start to think about the opposite.

[loki565]

It's just that now it has become more often to flicker weapons in the hands of all sorts of freaks)))

[Revival]

Yes, apparently that is why, the selection criterion is participation in meetings

[loki565]

Not only, for rallies, the use of some kind of saiga will not solve anything, but will only transfer the protesters to a different status and legalize the use of firearms to kill. And saiga versus Kalash is so-so perspective)))

[Revival]

Have you read the article about the selection criterion for the ban?
I about it

[Rzzz]

Quote: loki565

will only transfer the protesters to a different status and legalize the use of firearms to kill

It has already been legalized. And in the case of a buoy, a short-barreled shotgun, such as the "Kerch shooter" was - an extremely effective piece at short distances. This is what our "siloviki" are afraid of, and therefore they push through this norm.

[Cympak]

Quote: rzzz

And in the case of a buoy, a short-barreled shotgun, such as the "Kerch shooter" was - an extremely effective piece at short distances. This is what our "siloviki" are afraid of, and therefore they push through this norm.

Only bad luck, the "Kerch shooter" did not participate in pickets and riots, he was patriotic, he was for the return of Crimea to Russia. On this initiative, there are no restrictions for him in purchasing a pump-action shotgun.

[Revival]

So they do not care about the danger for the simple, it is immediately said directly that it is necessary to ban those who are dissatisfied with those who cannot be dissatisfied

[Gato]

It's easier to ban the dissatisfied. With criminal liability for violation.

[Revival]

This is already there and is getting worse

[Tank hard]

Quote: loki565

Not only, for rallies, the use of some kind of saiga will not solve anything

Yeah, 12 gauge, semi-automatic, buckshot shops, bag full of shops ..

Quote: loki565

And saiga versus Kalash is so-so perspective)))

And the saiga is the Kalash, and the castrated function of automatic fire-1) is easily bypassed by knowledgeable individuals. 2) Pros rarely use automatic fire. completely dispensing with solitary. And yes, the criterion of the rally participants is very satisfying.

[Deck]

And saiga versus Kalash is so-so perspective)))

And Remington 700 in win 308 from a distance of 600 meters against Kalash? How? Better odds?

[ioan-e]

Quote: Revival

Yes, apparently that is why, the selection criterion is participation in meetings

Don't confuse rallies with riots! The rally must be coordinated with the local executive authorities, and what the bulk hamsters are happy with is a provocation with the aim of organizing riots!

[Rzzz]

Quote: ioan-e

The rally must be coordinated with the local executive authorities

So, the structures that we consider "the authorities" do not coordinate the meetings, and that's it. In fact, rallies are now prohibited in Russia. Moreover, the authorities, in an effort to at least negatively raise their authority flying into the abyss, are doing fierce chaos, such as heavy deadlines for a plastic cup. Just to show everyone what they can, that's all. But this situation cannot last forever, I am afraid that it will break through soon.

[ioan-e]

Last year, Navalny had already agreed on 3 places in the summer, and take him out, lay out and put Sakharov Avenue, but this is not a constructive position aimed at provoking the authorities! For the regions I will not say, in the Saratov region, where I come from, they agreed without problems.

[Rzzz]

Quote: ioan-e

already agreed 3 places, but take him out,

And where did you agree, do not remind? This is the essence of the rally - to attract the attention of both the people and the authorities, but if it is allowed to be held only in the forest outside the Moscow Ring Road, then there is no point in such a rally.

[ioan-e]

Quote: rzzz

Quote: ioan-e

already agreed 3 places, but take him out,

And where did you agree, do not remind? This is the essence of the rally - to attract the attention of both the people and the authorities, but if it is allowed to be held only in the forest outside the Moscow Ring Road, then there is no point in such a rally.

That is, Pushkinskaya Square, which Navalny did not agree to, is in your forest outside the Moscow Ring Road? Everything is clear, further conversation does not make sense!

[Rzzz]

Quote: ioan-e

further conversation does not make sense!

Well, it doesn't make sense, don't talk, what to make noise and throw minuses?
You know everything about Navalny, so I asked you. I need to know where he was allowed. I'm not a fan of his to watch every sneeze.

[Revival]

To begin with, according to the constitution, a rally does not require approval, but a Notification, that is, simply inform about the plan to hold it, and not ask permission, but since, to put it mildly, our constitution is not a law of direct action, then .....

[Terrible GMO]

Quote: ioan-e

Don't confuse rallies with riots! The rally must be coordinated with the local executive authorities

And if they don't agree, go and grumble in your kitchens?
That's right, the slave must obey and fulfill the will of the master

PS They do not agree. If not a pro-government lease ...

[ioan-e]

Quote: TerribleGMO

Quote: ioan-e

Don't confuse rallies with riots! The rally must be coordinated with the local executive authorities

And if they don't agree, go and grumble in your kitchens?
That's right, the slave must obey and fulfill the will of the master

PS They do not agree. If not a pro-government lease ...

But is this whining based on personal experience or on the headlines of articles from the Internet? And what expressions - "slave"! In Russia, everyone “knows” everything, but no one does anything, especially on the Internet! You, dear, are very similar to a paid provocateur, for some ideological clichés and no specifics in the message!

[Revival]

Learn the concept of riots, without conjectures and the same type.
To start..
And yes, do not confuse rallies with mass riots.
A meeting that has not been agreed is not

[Revival]

Name at least one example of riots in the last five years, as defined by law

[ioan-e]

Quote: Revival

Name at least one example of riots in the last five years, as defined by law

Organization of riots - actions aimed at gathering crowds, calls to actively resist the requirements set by the authorities, if such requirements are legal.

Isn't this what Navalny's henchmen used to do every time at unauthorized rallies or processions with shouts - we are in power here?

[Revival]

Find about the shouts "we are in power here."
Do you find any differences from your reflections?

“By mass riots, the legislator understands a crime that violates public safety and can cause grave consequences in the economy, politics, ecology, and the military sphere, and paralyze the activities of state authorities and administration.

The objective side of the crime (part 1 of article 212 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation) consists in organizing mass riots accompanied by violence, pogroms, arson, destruction of property, the use of firearms, explosives or explosive devices, as well as the provision of armed resistance to a representative of the authorities.

The organization of mass riots is recognized as active actions to organize, gathering crowds, calls for all citizens at the scene of the crime to join a group of "activists" to commit pogroms, arson, destroy property, use firearms, explosives or explosive devices, and also provide armed resistance to representatives
authorities; In a number of cases, during the organization of mass riots, work is carried out to arm the participants in the riots, prepare items that can be used by them as weapons. The organizers are planning the development of riots by distributing leaflets calling for violent action .... "(http://fkurf.ru/zakon/ugolovnyj_kodeks_rossijskoj_federacii/statya_212.html.).

[ioan-e]

Hey, find, you were banned on YouTube or something, navalnofil!

[Revival]

So you're a hamlo troll.
Or did I poke you painfully into what you call mass riots, what is not?
I see ...
And yes, by the way, I never even remembered about bulk, Unlike you))
But, I understand when there is nothing to say, then powerlessness generates pathetic aggression.
WHILE)

[Revival]

So I say that there is no such thing!
Credit drain, I count!

[Sling cutter]

Quote: loki565

It's just that now it has become more often to flicker weapons in the hands of all sorts of freaks)))

Yeah, recently they showed the deputy and the leader of one of the republics, so they have whole arsenals of shooters.
They can.

[zadorin1974]

Good time, Stroporez. Let's take a closer look at today's legislation on weapons. I don’t know what’s going on in the capitals, but in the regions of central Russia, it’s just awful. The employees of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, if they wanted, would not receive weapons at all (PPS, DPS, district police officers). The same for private security companies. A solid crap - and God forbid, application - thanks to the Prosecutor's Office - a minimum of service inconsistency. The management, in order to cover up their op, drains at once. If something, then you were fired by yesterday. Jump off the madhouse as soon as possible. Look, employees are afraid to touch them for outright rudeness. Our employee is already GUILTY. Just don't talk about corruption and bribe-takers now. I'm talking about those who work on the earth. Here's an example for you, well, the DPS outfits have been reduced, Replaced with cameras, What? There are fewer drunks? Accidents with fatalities have decreased?
You cite the example of deputies and their collections of weapons, yes, anyone who has finances has a safe packed to capacity. I have crossed a bucket of slops with such assholes several times. Do not confuse the administration of regions and formations with the Internal Affairs Directorate - the Internal Affairs Department is subordinate to them, as they are ordered to , so the leadership and brings (found power from the sergeant of the PPS). Naz, republics are a separate topic. Now the leaders are making a proposal to allow the acquisition of a smooth hunting from the age of 16. And you will agree with that?

[Sling cutter]

Quote: zadorin1974

Let's analyze together

Greetings, Kamrad! I completely agree with your comment, because you described the reality of our middle-lane Zamkadye.

[zadorin1974]

Yes, I can't even come close to describe, because they will immediately be banned (one mate). Here are just two examples. The PPS sergeant receives with all the bells and whistles 23-25 ​​thousand (this is the workhorse of the Public Order Police-municipalities). These are always incomplete, right this does not hurt anyone-ottarobanil his service-go ahead to work on kavidu-and be ready to hear about yourself everything than the people are offended by the government for a BIG SASIBO !!!!!!! from the management. District (not MAaskovskie krutyshi), which have five, six villages and plus garden cooperatives, even with the condition of a new car (well, at least this has now become normal) but with repairs mainly in the capital of the region and twenty fuel for a week is How? So young people are running, having served for two or three years, starting to understand that nobody needs her, neither those apartments, nor those pensions are normal. Senior district police officer, major, with seniority at 22 years old, 14 thousand pension. Now some will say -they are not fucking worked out-it is compulsory to be in the duty room of some, as before in the DND to send on duty-so that life is seen from a different angle. We also have lieutenant colonels with pensions, what do you want?

[shtatsov]

And then the population is surprised when they are told, when they kill you, then call! Here, not long ago, the Supreme Court ruled that an employee can use a stun gun only in case of a threat to life and health! Now anyone can even send him, even piss on a policeman, he has no right to do anything to him. One word! DeBilla bl .....!

[Svarog]

Quote: zadorin1974

Now figures are making a proposal to permit the acquisition of a smooth hunting game from the age of 16.

Yeah, and they want to organize a driver's license from the same age .. Age is of great importance, what about arms, then permission should not be given at 16, but only after completing military service, and then two years later. That is, at the age of 20-22, not earlier .. otherwise hormones play strongly at this age, and you can mess up.

[zadorin1974]

Good Vladimir. In my time, in order to get a hunting ticket, a candidate had to leave for three years, hand over a minimum of hunting to retirees to mentors, only then you could dream of your gun. Now, to get a state ticket, a maximum of half an hour in the state hunting supervision ...

[Pereira]

Nowadays boys are considered up to 35 years old. And they are forbidden to have children before this age. And then hormones play, and then there are 100 times more abortions than those killed by gunshot.

[Revival]

"in arms, then permission should not be given at the age of 16, but only after completing military service, and then, in two years. That is, in 20-22, not earlier ..".

An interesting army will be, through one armed, "one rifle for three", those who have grown up?

[Pereira]

It's just that now it has become more often to flicker weapons in the hands of all sorts of freaks)))

Should have hacked to death with an ax?

[Lech from Android.]

Earlier in Russia it was proposed to increase the age limit for the acquisition of certain types of weapons from 18 to 21 years.

Undergrowth students should not have weapons.

I used to be against buying weapons for self-defense, now sometimes I start to think about the opposite.

Here it is necessary to think not about weapons, but about the law on self-defense ... law enforcement officers perceive self-defense as an attack by the defender on the attacker.
Very often, according to the consequences of self-defense, the one who defended himself from the attack by injuring or crippling the attacker is imprisoned ... well, for example, you pushed the attacking bully and he stumbled and fell on the back of his head on the curb with a fatal outcome ... everything ... self-defense turns into not intentional murder .. . Correctly people say from the amount and from the prison do not renounce.
And the laws on arms are now being tightened to the limit, cutting off part of the people from them, it is difficult to say intentionally or not intentionally ... deputies often have nothing to do, so they tighten the screws to the limit.

[Revival]

Offer a call to start at age 21?
Of course, unintentionally, it happens by chance that all measures are in terms of tightening.
As for self-defense, to the point, we practically do not have such a concept, in fact, it is not allowed, so to speak

[figwam]

Quote: Revival

Offer a call to start at age 21?

The conscript is not given a weapon for personal use, but is only registered with the soldier, the weapon is stored in the armory room under an alarm and is handed over under the control of the commander for firing or while on guard duty.

[Revival]

It doesn't help much, judging by the news releases

[Vol4ara]

Quote: Lech from Android.

Earlier in Russia it was proposed to increase the age limit for the acquisition of certain types of weapons from 18 to 21 years.

Undergrowth students should not have weapons.

Then in the army, weapons under the age of 21 cannot be issued

[Revival]

Quite right, otherwise hypocrisy turns out

[Svarog]

Quote: GELEZNII_KAPUT

Those in power feel that they smell like fried. I used to be against buying weapons for self-defense, now sometimes I start to think about the opposite.

So my attitude towards buying and permitting weapons has completely changed. Like you, I used to be an enemy, now I think that weapons should be on the free sale. We are copying the United States, so let it be like theirs ..

[GELEZNII_KAPUT]

Quote: Svarog

So my attitude towards buying and permitting weapons has completely changed. Like you, I used to be an enemy, now I think that weapons should be on the free sale. We are copying the United States, so let it be like theirs ..

I agree that every frostbitten person would know that they can make a hole in his head, if that.

[Lech from Android.]

I agree that every frostbitten person would know that they can make a hole in his head, if that.

And if your neighbor is frostbitten on his head ... gets drunk and goes with the Saiga to shoot at your house for your carelessly spoken word ... how many such cases have already happened.
Although on the other hand ... a man and his wife walked down the street in a village with a chainsaw, a drunken company of 4 people got attached to him ... he tried to reason with them did not help ... when he began to scare them with a chainsaw, they pulled out a crowbar from somewhere and cracked him in head several times ... that's all there is no man ... I could not defend myself.

[GELEZNII_KAPUT]

Quote: Lech from Android.

And if your neighbor is frostbitten on his head ... gets drunk and goes with the Saiga to shoot at your house for your carelessly spoken word ... how many such cases have already happened.
Although on the other hand ... a man and his wife walked down the street in a village with a chainsaw, a drunken company of 4 people got attached to him ... he tried to reason with them did not help ... when he began to scare them with a chainsaw, they pulled out a crowbar from somewhere and cracked him in head several times ... that's all there is no man ... I could not defend myself.

Planes also fall sometimes, but this does not stop anyone.

[-Dmitry-]

That way, the weapon wouldn't have helped him either. With a gun, you can't really drag out, and if we are talking about the COP again, then the attackers can have it quite on legal grounds. For some reason, all supporters of the Constitutional Court believe that it will be exclusively for law-abiding and adequate people, and even bullet-shooting masters ... This is the mistake. A simple example, the owner of the COP will take to defend himself in a place where there is darkness for passers-by. When the adrenaline rises, and even considering that in 90% of the shooting training, as a rule, there will be almost zero (post-rash when washing the barrel does not count), what is the probability that people who are absolutely not involved in the conflict will suffer? I think it will be very high.

P / S / For those who like to blame for cottonophobia - I have owned a smoothbore for 6 years already (it's time to get a rifle already), and I do not just own it, but I regularly go hunting with it.

[Tuzik]

The criminal element always has a weapon, even at weddings they are not shy about firing, and their power does not touch, although they know everything about everyone, but the average person is not even given a chance for self-defense, so in our country it is safer to be a bandit than to be law-abiding

[Nyrobsky]

Quote: -Dmitry-

P / S / For those who like to blame for cottonophobia - I own a smoothbore for 6 years (it's time to get a cut already), and not just own, but regularly go hunting with him.

Or maybe it is not necessary to acquire a rifle. I've already had it. It all depends on how often it is needed and whether it justifies itself. If you go to the taiga every week, then maybe, and if from time to time and once a year, then it is doubtful. I had TOZ-78 and IZH-94 (7,62x54 - 12X76) combi, the use of which is now limited. you just won't go into the forest with a rifle, and under this trunk you need to have a license for the extraction of furs or animals, otherwise how licenses are distributed now - this is still hemorrhoids. With a smooth one, you can stomp into the taiga with only a ticket in your hands. To extend the permit, each time you will have to bother with shooting the rifling for the bullet sleeve. I got rid of all the rifling and left myself one old IZH-27 vertical gun, which is quite enough for hunting in feathers, furs, and animals, especially since the assortment of bullet cartridges allows you to pick up a bullet for shooting from a smoothbore within 100 meters, which is quite enough. In addition, now the forest has been torn apart into private traders, whose lands are not accessible to every hunter. It's up to you, of course, but I decided to share it with you based on my experience of owning a rifle.
P / S- here it will soon be just right to think about how to get rid of the last trunk and switch to a "quiet" hunt in the old fashioned way, with snares, loops and traps, so as not to go through these humiliating procedures with the delivery of urine for drugs, certificates that you not a drunk and not a nutcase and monetary extortion for obtaining the coveted laminated permit form. 30 years ago, everything was simpler - I paid a fee of 1p.75 kopecks, went to the ROVD with a receipt in the permitting system, showed the barrel, compared the numbers, stamped the renewal date, signature and seal in the booklet of the Permit, and roll on all four sides until the next renewal. Now the state stupidly cuts hunters every five years for the same trunks by an average of 3-5 thousand rubles (depending on the region), while receiving from 9 to 15 billion rubles simply for the fact that these trunks lie in people in safes and sometimes they "walk" them into the woods.

[-Dmitry-]

Or maybe it is not necessary to acquire a rifle.

Maybe not, but the opportunity has already appeared. Again, you have to think about what caliber to take. The caliber determines what it will be used for. So far, I think, and this Covid is strained with finances :(

To extend the permit, each time you will have to bother with shooting the rifle for the bullet sleeve.

Wasn't it just one shot?

smooth you can stomp into the taiga with only a ticket in your hands. To extend the permit, each time you will have to bother with shooting the rifle for the bullet sleeve. I got rid of all the rifling and left myself one old IZH-27 vertical gun, which is quite enough for hunting in feathers, furs, and animals, especially since the assortment of bullet cartridges allows you to pick up a bullet for shooting from a smoothbore within 100 meters, which is quite enough.

As for shooting bullets from a smooth barrel, there is a lot of controversy in fact. For example, an experienced friend of mine thinks that this is very bad for the barrel. And so I think it is possible to take a barrel of the type VPO-209/208, TP1 / 2 for Lancaster or Paradox. I honestly haven’t made my choice yet.

[Nyrobsky]

Quote: -Dmitry-

Wasn't it just one shot?

Shooting is now required for each renewal of the Permit.

Quote: -Dmitry-

As for shooting bullets from a smooth barrel, there is a lot of controversy in fact. For example, an experienced friend of mine thinks that this is very bad for the barrel.

I have been hunting officially since 1990, and somehow I did not notice that the shooting with a bullet had a strong effect on the barrel. there are sub-caliber bullets that come with an obturator, which eliminates the leadening of the barrel, and the weight of gunpowder is not increased by much in comparison with the shot. Shooting with shot in this regard affects the barrel much worse if the shot is not in the container.

Quote: -Dmitry-

And so I think it is possible to take a barrel of the type VPO-209/208, TP1 / 2 for Lancaster or Paradox. I honestly haven’t made my choice yet.

You can, of course, put the barrel depending on who you plan to hunt for. Much still depends on the hunting conditions. If from a tower or on a room this is one thing, and if in the taiga along windbreaks, then in addition to the rifling, a good, working husky is needed. Simple rifling is a limited use. Again, it is almost impossible to hit a hare that has risen and running or a bird taking off from it, and a smoothbore is, as they say, an application "from mouse to bear" that got up and hit. Although in my practice there was a case when, in excitement, I forgot that I was with IZH-94 and otduplitsya from it in a flock like from IZH-27, knocking out 2 geese, which can be attributed to the category of "random accidents". In addition, the one that fell from the rifling was with a ring from Holland and from the moment of ringing, until the defeat, it flew off for 5 years.

Quote: -Dmitry-

I honestly haven’t made my choice yet. So far, I think, and this Covid is strained with finances :(

I sincerely wish not to be mistaken with the choice and not to chase the brand, because boar can be equally laid both from the trunk for 250 thousand, and from the trunk for 40-50 thousand. and therefore - why overpay?

[zadorin1974]

Dobogo Dmitry. I am completely opposed to the free circulation of the civilian Constitutional Court and the complete prohibition of rubber fire. I will give an example from life. It’s no secret that not all employees of the Ministry of Internal Affairs wear uniforms every day (and also don’t receive service uniforms) to work. But when they leave on duty according to the schedule (all cabinets, regardless of the position) in the duty unit. Then an employee in uniform and with a service weapon. So, this is what I am leading to - the Captain, who went through the plasticine country on time, felt bad on duty, asked for leave responsible for the Department of Internal Affairs, handed over the pistol and instead of supper went home to lie down, having entered his entrance, he bluntly taught him on the head with a bat (he did not even hear the attackers), but for the villainous robbers, the absence of the barrel was a surprise. Of course, they were accepted after a while. The guy didn’t add health and thank God the morons didn’t get the gun. And this story happened with a prepared person. So we will draw conclusions.

[-Dmitry-]

Yes, if there is a legalization of COPs, then there will be a sharp increase in COPs on the black market - someone will lose, someone is stolen from someone, robbed, etc.

[Glory1974]

if there is a legalization of COPs, then there will be a sharp increase in COPs on the black market - someone will lose, someone will be stolen from someone, robbed

In Uzbekistan, for stealing a car for 10 years, it doesn't matter if he stole it, took a ride, without the purpose of stealing, etc.
If someone else's pistol found in your possession is given 10 years, I assure you, the lost pistols will be lying around on the street and no one will pick them up.

[-Dmitry-]

If someone else's pistol found in your possession is given 10 years, I assure you, the lost pistols will be lying around on the street and no one will pick them up.

An argument from the series - that the COPs will legalize, the crime will immediately decrease. For example, now there is criminal responsibility for a repeated JSC, that is, they can give a real term, but this stops few people.

[Glory1974]

An argument from the series - that the COPs will legalize, crime will immediately decrease.

An absolutely wrong conclusion.
I write that the severity of the punishment affects the number of crimes committed.
If you look from this point of view, the legalization of the Constitutional Court can affect some types of crimes. For example, robbery of apartments and private houses. The knowledge that you can be shoved with a pistol stops the robbers, to which there is documentary and statistical evidence.
But for example, murder in everyday life, including drunkenness, can be negatively affected by the COP.

[-Dmitry-]

If you look from this point of view, the legalization of the Constitutional Court can affect some types of crimes. For example, robbery of apartments and private houses. The knowledge that you can be shoved with a pistol stops the robbers, to which there is documentary and statistical evidence.

Well, what you write is called not robbery, but thefts, that is, secretly, secretly, apartments are haunted, when the owners are not there, then why be afraid of weapons ?. Robbery is open theft, but in relation to apartments and houses it is used less often than robbery. Basically, robbery is a bag / hat / phone on the street to snatch and run away. Robbery is open theft with the use of weapons. If the robbers are armed, then why should they be afraid of KSov? There will be surprise on their side. Usually, both thefts and robberies are not done spontaneously, but after long observation, or on a tip.

[Glory1974]

Robbery is open theft with the use of weapons. If the robbers are armed, then why should they be afraid of KSov? There will be surprise on their side.

In the USA in Florida, many migrants from Cuba settled. Home burglaries have skyrocketed, with state officials advising residents to buy weapons and even lifting many restrictions on purchases.
Some time later, a number of Cuban robbers were shot dead during the robberies, and the crime began to decline.
This is the application practice. Therefore, your theory is not consistent with practice.

[-Dmitry-]

This is the application practice. Therefore, your theory is not consistent with practice.

Do we have practice in Russia? Or theirs? And American cops shot and killed a boy with a toy machine gun, and indeed many civilians, simply because they it seemedthat they are armed. In almost all cases, the check showed the legality of the use of weapons. Here is the practice in the USA.
And with us it will be like this - you buy a cop, a bandos with a bat will break into you, you shoot him down and you will be immediately put in a temporary detention facility, because this bandos will have a paid lawyer, certificates about how white and fluffy he is from all possible places , and you will prove that you are not a camel (that it was not you who were drunk who decided to shoot, but he broke into you with a weapon). But this is our practice.

[Glory1974]

Do we have practice in Russia? Or theirs?

I gave you an example from their practice. But I can also from ours, if interested

And we will have it like this -

Unfortunately, you have thoughts in a bunch: "Flies, honey, shit and bees."
I am writing about the dependence of the level of crime on the availability of weapons by citizens, but what are you talking about?
About corruption or who has more money? Or about the self-defense law?

[-Dmitry-]

Unfortunately, you have thoughts in a bunch: "Flies, honey, shit and bees."

This is your thoughts in a bunch, since you give an example of law enforcement from the United States. They have had weapons in civilian circulation for several hundred years - during this time both the culture of gun ownership and legislation have perfected.

I am writing about the dependence of the level of crime on the availability of weapons by citizens, but what are you talking about?

And where did you get the idea that only law-abiding citizens will have COPs? Take the same Detroit in the same States. For some reason, the presence of weapons among citizens does not in any way affect the number of crimes, especially with the use of firearms. So your example about Cuban migrants is out of the box.
Once again I tell you, do not confuse warm with soft - no weapon will stop the theft (theft is committed when the owners of the house are not there!) Apartments, except for security systems, and apartment robberies are so rare that no cops can correct the statistics. The same thing about robberies, only during robberies, it is not known how it will turn out.

About corruption or who has more money? Or about the self-defense law?

I'm talking about the current situation. It is foolish to legalize the Constitutional Court under the current legislation, because then not criminals will be put behind bars, but those who defend themselves with the help of the Constitutional Court. If you do not understand this, hold the flag in your hands, a drum on your neck, go defend yourself.

[Glory1974]

you give an example of US law enforcement.

I can give an example from our life. Read carefully, I have already spoken about this.

And where did you get the idea that only law-abiding citizens will have COPs?

I did not say that.

Once again I tell you, do not confuse warm with soft - no weapon will stop the theft (theft is committed when the owners are not at home!)

Here you are confusing. I didn't say a word about the theft from apartments.

It is foolish to legalize the Constitutional Court under the current legislation, because then not criminals will be put behind bars, but those who defend themselves with the help of the Constitutional Court.

And I did not assert that either.
In general, you yourself put forward the thesis, you valiantly challenge it. Read my comments carefully, if you can say something on the topic, I will answer with pleasure, if not

If you don’t understand this - the flag in your hands, a drum on your neck

[-Dmitry-]

Here you are confusing. I didn't say a word about the theft from apartments.

You wrote about the fact that COPs can reduce the percentage of robberies of apartments and private houses. I told you what "robbery of apartments and private houses" is and why the cops cannot change these statistics.

I can give an example from our life. Read carefully, I have already spoken about this.

Give, just not unfounded.

I write that the severity of the punishment affects the number of crimes committed.

And I did not assert that either.
In general, you yourself put forward the thesis, you valiantly challenge it. Read my comments carefully, if you can say something on the topic, I will answer with pleasure, if not

This is what you originally wrote about, but this is another delusion. For murder, they also give a lot, but this does not really stop anyone. So the legalization of COPs will not give anything good.

[Glory1974]

We wrote about the fact that COPs can reduce the percentage of robberies of apartments and private houses. I told you what "robbery of apartments and private houses" is and why the cops cannot change these statistics.

Robbery is fundamentally different from theft, which you noted. Theft is committed in the absence of the owner, robbery in the presence. I am writing specifically about robbery, and weapons help against robberies, because the criminal knows that they will shoot at him, either in America or in Russia. If you don't like the American example, please, an example from Russia: Chenya in the early 90s. There is peace and quiet in the Cossack villages, because the arms are full of weapons. The Dudayev regime is carrying out an operation to seize both registered hunting and illegal weapons. After that, robberies and murders begin in the villages.

what was originally written about, but this is another delusion. For murder, they also give a lot, but this does not really stop anyone.

you are wrong. Experience shows that the severity of punishment stops a criminal. And he gave an example from Uzbekistan: 10 years for stealing a car, and this type of crime has disappeared from them.

legalization of KSov will not give anything good.

The only thing I can agree with.
It is necessary to change the law on self-defense, to allow law-abiding citizens to repulse criminals, to toughen the responsibility for the misuse of weapons and everything related to weapons: trafficking, storage, theft, etc. After that, we can talk about the legalization of the Constitutional Court.

[Rzzz]

Quote: GELEZNII_KAPUT

so that every frostbitten person would know that they can make a hole in his head, if that.

But this "frostbitten" one will be the first to run to buy a pistol. And he will show aggression against someone who has no weapons. Nothing will change in principle, but there will be more corpses. Much.

[Sharky]

I agree that every frostbitten person would know that they can make a hole in his head, if that.

And also not frostbitten ... and in general any law-abiding person. After all, when the "short-barrels" are allowed, the police will immediately thrust the entire clip into a suspicious person, as in the USA, and not persuade and not shoot in the legs, as now. They waved the hand unsuccessfully, attracted attention, get a bullet in the forehead from a policeman. Is that what you want?

[Vol4ara]

Quote: Svarog

Quote: GELEZNII_KAPUT

Those in power feel that they smell like fried. I used to be against buying weapons for self-defense, now sometimes I start to think about the opposite.

So my attitude towards buying and permitting weapons has completely changed. Like you, I used to be an enemy, now I think that weapons should be on the free sale. We are copying the United States, so let it be like theirs ..

It is useless until there is normal self-defense legislation. In America, most weapons are purchased just for these purposes, but from them you can kill a thief if he is on your territory without hesitation and there will be no consequences, and they will put you in prison for this, even if this thief does not run away, but shove at you with a knife

[-Dmitry-]

It is useless until there is normal self-defense legislation.

I agree. The term self-defense should be spelled out so that there is no other interpretation, as well as exceeding its limits.

In America, most weapons are purchased just for these purposes, but you can kill a thief from them, if he is on your territory without hesitation and there will be no consequences, and they will put you in prison for this, even if this thief does not run away, but shove at you with a knife

America has a wealth of experience in the use of weapons. Since the Wild West, that is, over 100 years. Well, not all states have the same laws. And you also need to consider how the police in the United States use weapons. This must also be taken into account. And then our supporters of KSov, are used to considering only from one side, but from the fact that our police will definitely change the order of using weapons, for some reason they do not think.

[dvina71]

Quote: GELEZNII_KAPUT

Those in power smell that it smells like fried

I can imagine the crowd .. even if something outraged .. with a smoothbore and an emasculated rifle .. against full-fledged weapons .. yes at least the police .. Do you really think that someone is afraid of you?

[Sling cutter]

Quote: dvina71

I can imagine the crowd .. even if something outraged .. with a smoothbore and an emasculated rifle .. against full-fledged weapons .. yes at least the police .. Do you really think that someone is afraid of you?

Of course afraid, definitely

[dvina71]

Quote: Stroporez

Of course afraid, definitely

Yeah ... self-doubt ..

[-Dmitry-]

Moreover, with the permission to carry weapons for self-defense, after several shootings with the police, the police will have the right to use weapons not like now, only under imminent threat life and health, but as in the states, it's just suspicion of a threat. These are 2 big differences.

[Vol4ara]

Quote: dvina71

Quote: GELEZNII_KAPUT

Those in power smell that it smells like fried

I can imagine the crowd .. even if something outraged .. with a smoothbore and an emasculated rifle .. against full-fledged weapons .. yes at least the police .. Do you really think that someone is afraid of you?

Have you seen the rallies in Belarus, have you seen the number of people? Give everyone a gun

[Rzzz]

Quote: dvina71

I can imagine the crowd ... even if it was indignant with something ... with a smoothbore and an emasculated rifle ... against full-fledged weapons

When the crowd is on the crowd, in the square, then it is true not to roll. But the authorities are looking further. When everything comes to guerrilla, then everything will change. One shotgun shot in the driveway - minus one police unit, plus one set of weapons and police equipment from the protesters.
And then the fact that the police are people comes into play. Understanding this alignment, they will say "defend your palaces and yachts yourself", throw down their weapons and beautiful black suits, and scatter in all directions.

[Incvizitor]

This is if they are traitors, and if they are patriots after such events, they will destroy the galloping cattle on suspicion of weapons.

[Rzzz]

Quote: Incvizitor

and if they are patriots after such events,

Patriots ..... what? How old are you in general?

[Incvizitor]

You fell from the moon, or do you live in a fairy tale, missed, slept through the collapse of Libya, Ukraine? Or are those who betrayed and destroyed these countries, galloping a coup, not cattle and not enemies of the people? It is good that at one time Assad saved Syria from such people and in China they were correctly crushed like bedbugs.

[Rzzz]

What kind of collapse occurred in Ukraine? They have changed power several times, they live and are healthy, no worse than us, given the fact that they still have less money, because there are few minerals. You watch a smaller TV set with nightingale jelly, you will seem healthier.
What's wrong with China? Firstly, nobody was crushed there. Reforms took place in China just after those events, and that is why China is now the world leader. There is no oligopoly in China, like we do, in China they fight corruption. China has a growing population and growing wealth. In China, the coronavirus was defeated and there patients do not lie in the corridors of hospitals.

To the question you did not answer, what a patriot of which the average "cosmonaut" can now be, with not very high intelligence. Why would he breastfeed on a pitchfork? Well, individual bastards with sadistic inclinations and outright maniacs - okay, I see. But I would like to hope that there are not many of these in the general mass of people in uniform.

[Incvizitor]

Their colony is now deciding everything over the hill, on the ground, only armed fascists, they have started a civil war, they are losing territory, all production has been ruined, debts have to be paid for a hundred years.
They managed to protect China from this, as well as Syria, although then Western terrorists got in there anyway, but there at least 80 percent of the legitimate power is controlled by the junta on the territory of 404.
A patriot just in the power structure will defend the country from all this amerzi, if it is necessary to destroy it by order, and if the horses with weapons, they will only put to sleep like mad dogs, I don’t look at any jelly ones. a lie would not advise listening, although such cannot be corrected.

[Rzzz]

Quote: Incvizitor

Their colony is now deciding everything over the hill,

Isn't our colony? Not over the hill decide? Do you still really believe in the underground bunker grandpa?
No, I understand that after a certain age it is difficult to change the worldview formed in youth. But dear comrade! You have 60s firmware in your mind! It has long been fundamentally incompatible with the current reality! And the policy that you propose will lead our country to a fierce office, comparable to 1917. I really hope that people who think like you, who are not able to restructure their thinking, will leave this world in a natural way before the safety margin of our country is exhausted. There is no other way, they are not going to voluntarily leave.
Syria is generally not indicative. It is the same wild, little-governed country as others in the center of the Asian continent. There will never be any democratic society there. Assad there or some other barmaley. Either one padishah will be there, or many different beys. Therefore, the best policy is a wall with barbed wire along the border with machine gun towers. Let them do what they want. They themselves will degenerate. Do not supply any weapons and equipment, their lot is a cart with donkeys. Otherwise, everything will be turned into a weapon.

[Incvizitor]

Now the war of Western terrorists against humanity continues, in fact, the continuation of World War II and everyone who opposes the people and the country goes against the people, for me they are no longer people, but as long as there is no sane replacement for the authorities, something to demand is an attempt to destroy everything available to please terrorists.

[-Dmitry-]

And then the fact that the police are people comes into play. Understanding this alignment, they will say "defend your palaces and yachts yourself", throw down their weapons and beautiful black suits, and scatter in all directions.

Most likely, there will be an amendment to the Federal Law "On the Police" and she will be given the right to use weapons not in the face of an immediate threat, as it is now, but when such a threat is likely to arise. And these are two big differences. And friends, acquaintances, colleagues (even those who did not know much, will act this way out of the "corporate" spirit) of those very "units" will not take those "protesters" alive. You poorly know the serving people. There are of course those who will abandon, but there will not be very many of them.

When the crowd is on the crowd, in the square, then it is true not to roll. But the authorities are looking further. When everything comes to guerrilla, then everything will change. One shotgun shot in the driveway - minus one police unit, plus one set of weapons and police equipment from the protesters.

AND? what will it give? One PM for "protesters"? And in general, in this case, these are no longer protesters, but real extremists, or terrorists, with all the consequences.
ZY Your arguments, of course ... I see, history was taught poorly - any civil war is an order of magnitude worse than usual.

[Rzzz]

Quote: -Dmitry-

they will not take those "protesters" alive. You poorly know the serving people.

Well, on the other hand, they will act harder. This is called "guerrilla", it can go on almost indefinitely. Those methods by which it can be stopped by force - you will not like it very much.
To which qualified "service people" in gray uniforms walked on our land in 1941-1944, but they did not feel at ease. Despite the high level of training, and much stronger motivation. The level of losses in the rear of "them" was very high, and the partisans had weapons - just MP40.

[-Dmitry-]

Well, on the other hand, they will act harder. This is called "guerrilla", it can go on almost indefinitely. Those methods by which it can be stopped by force - you will not like it very much.

God, what nonsense you are talking about ... Those who will act harder, as you say, are simple bandos. I don't think that those people who just want some kind of change are ready to kill their fellow citizens, maybe even neighbors or acquaintances. But those who are ready are quite definite individuals - bandits, extremists, terrorists, and not at all protesters. Are you making excuses for the Bandos? Then why do you need a weapon for self-defense? Go fraternize with them :)

To which qualified "service people" in gray uniforms walked on our land in 1941-1944, but they did not feel at ease. Despite the high level of training, and much stronger motivation. The level of losses in the rear of "them" was very high, and the partisans had weapons - just MP40.

For your information, the partisan movement is not just some "protesters" who got up from the couch 5 minutes ago, most of them were trained soldiers. They had communication with the headquarters, the commanders were personnel, or even trained saboteurs. Yes, and your so-called "service people" were ordinary enemies, and not the same citizens of the Russian Federation, who (this is already about the police) may well be your friends, acquaintances, relatives. So do not confuse soft with warm.

[Rzzz]

Oh Lord, another one who wants to shoot and impose harsh measures. With someone else's hands against other people. Do you really expect to sit out in the warmth in the event of "tough measures"? in 1937, even those with the most unconditional loyalty did not work that way. In general, you have the mindset of a gendarme warrant officer from 1915. And it was this kind of thinking that led to a lot of bloodshed. But it is extremely encouraging that there are very few people like you, there are fewer and fewer, and they try more than they do.
Now everything is different. The intelligence of the average citizen is higher than that of the average "silovik", and where it is necessary to plan some kind of operations, and not stupidly "screw", the "siloviks" will lose. If the authorities go over to the regime of mass suppression of protest actions, through punitive operations, shooting to kill, throwing fragmentation grenades at crowds of "terrorists" (why did they bring 30 grenades to Moscow for the National Guard in the spring?) - this will definitely not end well. It will be a civil war.
Plus another moment. Economy. The economy of our country is now teetering on the brink of an abyss. Any "tightening the screws" - will lead to a strong imbalance, a fall in budget revenues and an increase in spending. And here are two questions. 1.) How the authorities will equalize this imbalance, and if there is nothing, then what to do. And 2.) Will these "siloviki" remain the same patriots when there is not enough money for salaries, allowances, equipment, preferential pensions and other nishtyaks.

Okay, I'm tired of arguing with you, I won't argue early, and there is no point. I said everything. Write further what you want, I will not go into this topic anymore.

[-Dmitry-]

Lord, another one who wants to shoot and impose harsh measures. With someone else's hands against other people. Do you really expect to sit out in the warmth in the event of "tough measures"? in 1937, even those with the most unconditional loyalty did not work that way. In general, you have the mindset of a gendarme warrant officer from 1915. And it was this kind of thinking that led to a lot of bloodshed. But it is extremely encouraging that there are very few people like you, there are fewer and fewer, and they try more than they do.

You do not shift from a sore head to a healthy one. You want to "shoot" here, with the forces of "protesters" in the forces of law and order.

Now everything is different. The intelligence of the average citizen is higher than that of the average "silovik", and where it is necessary to plan some kind of operations, and not stupidly "screw", the "siloviks" will lose. If the authorities go over to the regime of mass suppression of protest actions, through punitive operations, shooting to kill, throwing fragmentation grenades at crowds of "terrorists" (why did they bring 30 grenades to Moscow for the National Guard in the spring?) - this will definitely not end well. It will be a civil war.

Oh god, what kind of nonsense are you talking about again? What the heck of an operation can be planned by an average "couch" strategist who saw real tanks, like real guns, only in games and the Internet? Yes, this "highly intelligent" "citizen" with a high degree of probability will shoot down his associates rather than "stupid" policemen.
Well, no matter how, you obviously did not serve, since you think that the security forces do not know how to plan operations.

Okay, I'm tired of arguing with you, I won't argue early, and there is no point. I said everything. Write further what you want, I will not go into this topic anymore.

And thank God! I have not read such nonsense yet ... And even dangerous. You obviously do not know the story, since you are raving about the shooting of police officers and armed resistance to the security forces.

[Tank hard]

Quote: dvina71

I can imagine the crowd ... even if it was outraged ... with a smoothbore and an emasculated rifled

I would be scared if I realize that there are individuals in this crowd who are competently able to use the weapons that they have. Smooth with buckshot, but a semiautomatic device, but for a short time, but in buildings, but with a suitable amount of ammunition, and in the hands of a skillful, knowledgeable individual.
About "emasculated rifled", is it about Lancaster and the paradox? Not particularly inferior to rifled, the main gag in the availability of ammunition (price, quality, quantity). Well, the distance is a little less, but for the city it is quite. And again, it depends on the preparedness of the individual.

Quote: dvina71

against full-fledged weapons .. yes at least the police.

Well, I don't know how the police are trained now. but the average policeman used to be the same sniper as the average citizen. I do not think. that something has changed for the better in preparation.
Always has the advantage prepared individual, and not the strongest, clever, cunning, etc.

[minus]

They are adopting laws ... And the National Guard will not save .. Forks and axes will be enough. Although recently there was information that they want to tighten the nuts with structurally similar household items with melee weapons ...

[Tank hard]

Quote: Minus

Although recently there was information that they want to tighten the nuts with structurally similar household items with melee weapons ...

It will be insanity. Now a household tool (such as various keys, chisels, hammers) made of steels that exceed the medieval arsenal at times, any adjustable wrench is in no way inferior to a 12th century battle mace .. It's just the ability to use it, so all the clubs of reenactors and roleplayers should be banned, at the same time and nails with files.

Quote: Minus

They pass laws

[Sergey_G_M]

It is not necessary to introduce such a thing, even criminals who have extinguished a criminal record have rights, but here they want to limit their rights for life. It smacks of the embryo of a caste society where certain segments of the population will be affected in their rights. This is absolutely forbidden!

[Revival]

So they take part in the rallies, they dare to open their mouths, they dare to be dissatisfied, it’s good they don’t offer a life sentence for the rally yet ..
Eagles political scientist, disgrace
Give him a plate, sip, worked

[shtatsov]

Here, after all, how can life turn. Today you are for Putin, but tomorrow the nuts may be turned, and you yourself will run to the rally! The people should be able to express their dissatisfaction, otherwise they will simply not be heard! For the elections I do not say how they can be counted all over the world you can see.

[Revival]

So they do not hear him, and they do not intend to.
What kind of discontent, who?
Not mature enough ...

[minus]

Something a law on life deprivation of the right to hold seats in government if they had a criminal record are in no hurry to adopt

[Skay]

It smacks of the embryo of a caste society where certain segments of the population will be affected in their rights.

Doesn't smell, but already stinks!

[Calm]

Anton Orlov, interestingly, does not see any problems other than this one! Maybe he doesn’t squeal any further than his feet, why would he come up with this heresy.

[Revival]

His work seems to be such, "the voice of the people" on command to throw a topic

[Nikolai Petrov]

It will turn out as usual. The bandits and maydanutye, if they wish, will find (or provide them) any weapon, from trauma to RPGs. And no fool with a registered weapon will go to break the law. And a law-abiding citizen, in order to buy some 12-gauge poker, will have to run through the next instances for the next certificates in order to prove something to someone there.

[-Dmitry-]

And no fool with a registered weapon will go to break the law.

Yes, there have already been a lot of cases when people were shot en masse with registered weapons - Vinogradov, Roslyakov from the Kerch Polytechnic Institute, in Moscow at school 263, Pomazun from Belgorod. Continue further? It doesn't matter that in the last 2 cases, the weapon was the parent's, the main thing is that it was legally acquired and the criminals easily got access to it.

[Nikolai Petrov]

Dmitry, the Kerch shooter SHOULD NOT HAVE a weapon! ... Because it has not matured yet. Where he got it, this is already from the area of ​​"improper storage" Well, other cases are a defect of the same doctors, and the district police.

[-Dmitry-]

Dmitry, the Kerch shooter SHOULD NOT HAVE a weapon! Because it has not matured yet. Well, other cases are a defect of the same doctors, and even the district ones.

The fact of the matter is that there was an officially registered pump, he was 18 years old. And from the age of 18, you can already acquire weapons ...
And who guarantees that when purchasing a self-defense weapon that can be worn permanently, there will be no mistakes and violations? There will be and how!

[Nikolai Petrov]

Dmitry, in that case, my opinion on this issue is in the comment above. I'm talking about doctors and district police officers.

[-Dmitry-]

Therefore, the law that exists is enough, that is, sports, hunting, plus the PLO. But it is categorically impossible to legalize the Constitutional Court.

[Nikolai Petrov]

I agree about the short-barrel.

[Vol4ara]

Quote: -Dmitry-

And no fool with a registered weapon will go to break the law.

Yes, there have already been a lot of cases when people were shot en masse with registered weapons - Vinogradov, Roslyakov from the Kerch Polytechnic Institute, in Moscow at school 263, Pomazun from Belgorod. Continue further? It doesn't matter that in the last 2 cases, the weapon was the parent's, the main thing is that it was legally acquired and the criminals easily got access to it.

It took me exactly 5 minutes to download the torus and find an arms trade site on the darknet, and on another site to find intermediary services in order to completely protect myself. Don't talk nonsense, if a criminal needs a weapon, he will find it the easiest way. And there will be heaps of proposals after Karabakh. Somewhere a month ago, a professor of philosophy at St. Petersburg State University shot himself, because of cancer and pain, from a TT - an old man, a professor of philosophy without any problems got a TT with a sawed-down number ...

[-Dmitry-]

It took me exactly 5 minutes to download the torus and find an arms trade site on the darknet, and on another site to find intermediary services in order to completely protect myself. Don't talk nonsense, if a criminal needs a weapon, he will find it the easiest way. And there will be heaps of proposals after Karabakh.

AND? Does this somehow cancel out the fact that registered barrels are shooting at people? Even now, when getting it is not easy. The registered trunk can be taken away, simply lost, or it can be owned by an inadequate person. Especially if it is a cop.
When I was hunting there was a case when a drunken "hunter" began to grab the SKS, his friends calmed him well. And then there are the very sad statistics of random hunt kills. Moreover, it is not some inexperienced beginners who kill, but also experienced people. And if you allow KSy, then the statistics will go off scale.

[Vol4ara]

Quote: -Dmitry-

It took me exactly 5 minutes to download the torus and find an arms trade site on the darknet, and on another site to find intermediary services in order to completely protect myself. Don't talk nonsense, if a criminal needs a weapon, he will find it the easiest way. And there will be heaps of proposals after Karabakh.

AND? Does this somehow cancel out the fact that registered barrels are shooting at people? Even now, when getting it is not easy. The registered trunk can be taken away, simply lost, or it can be owned by an inadequate person. Especially if it is a cop.
When I was hunting there was a case when a drunken "hunter" began to grab the SKS, his friends calmed him well. And then there are the very sad statistics of random hunt kills. Moreover, it is not some inexperienced beginners who kill, but also experienced people. And if you allow KSy, then the statistics will go off scale.

And there are also sad statistics of car accidents, will we ban cars?
Yes, registered barrels shoot, and unregistered barrels too, like household knives they cut. AND?

[-Dmitry-]

And there are also sad statistics of car accidents, will we ban cars?
Yes, registered barrels shoot, and unregistered barrels too, like household knives they cut. AND?

Again this demagogic device about cars and knives :) Will you and your car go to a bar or restaurant? Do you constantly drag her under your armpit? :) About the knife is the same, plus you need to know how to use a knife. Well, again, not everyone will be able to cut and stab with a knife - this is not a 5-10 m descent. All statistics on knives, this is mostly drunken stabbing and sad statistics on cars, to a greater extent also A / O. But firearms are used not only for drunkenness. Did Vinogradov shoot drunk? Roslyakov in Kerch, too, probably blue in the smoke? Again, Vinogradov / Roslyakov would have killed many people in the building with a machine or with a knife? I do not argue that a car can also do a lot of things, but you can't vilify a car with you under your armpit, and you can't kill / injure a person with a knife from 5-10-15-20 meters and further, especially since it has nothing to do with the conflict. And if an ordinary person uses KS as self-defense in a crowded place, the likelihood of hitting third parties is very high - you probably know at what distance a pistol bullet remains lethal, I don't think that any office clerk who bought a pistol will burn 50-100 rounds, at least a week, to raise your shooting training, so it will be impossible to avoid accidental casualties when using KSs, especially considering the specifics of using KSs in self-defense, when you need to shoot not in a calm shooting range environment, but with an excess of adrenaline in your blood. in a stressful situation.

[Lech from Android.]

at what distance does a pistol bullet remain lethal

Pistol bullets retain their lethality at ranges up to 500 m.

The main question is how to protect an ordinary citizen without special training, without prejudice to your own and other people's health from an attacking criminal ... solve this problem with many unknowns and you can safely be awarded the Nobel Prize for your contribution to peace.

[-Dmitry-]

The main question is how to protect an ordinary citizen without special training, without prejudice to your own and other people's health from an attacking criminal ... solve this problem with many unknowns and you can safely be awarded the Nobel Prize for your contribution to peace.

Well, unambiguously, this task will not be solved in any way by the legalization of the KSa, or other weapon permitted for constant carrying as a weapon of self-defense. At least at the moment, taking into account the legal awareness of the population, current legislation and its enforcement.

[Incvizitor]

Help that is not a drunkard, not a drug addict, not blind, not a psycho and training on the topic of use. Are there extra instances? Can I cross out some of the certificates, for example, to drug addicts, drunks to sell or to get away without training?
And the 12th is not a simple poker, at close range, self-loading, for 8 rounds you can do such things.

[certero]

As always, it's easier to look under the lantern, and not where you lost something :)
Already, the weapons of self-defense have been reduced to rubber spits.
in general, it's very cool that the prohibitions on weapons like to introduce those who always have weapons themselves.

[KSVK]

It is strange that the initiative came so late. I thought after the ban on gatherings, more than three would follow immediately. And so everything is logical, an okhlos who dares to defend his rights should not do it with a weapon in his hands. This is how it can come to the overthrow of those in power. And some are raving about permission for a short-barreled, oga, wait. The rest is all nafig selected. To avoid “rocking the boat”. :(

[tolancop]

The idea is wrong in principle. Well, the man participated in the riots, so what? I would somehow understand a life-long ban for citizens who have committed violent offenses, at least some logic can be seen. However, for the "disorderly" the logic is also visible: today a citizen is peacefully holding a meeting unarmed, and tomorrow, when the citizen is brought to the point, he will grab a weapon ...
And that instead of prohibitions it is better not to bring citizens to the point, the thought, apparently, does not come to this character's brain. Probably because of its complexity.

[-Dmitry-]

To be honest, the idea is not entirely unambiguous, but here it most likely means only when a person received a criminal record (that is, a criminal article). And in this case, it is impossible to say unequivocally whether this is justified or not.

[Mokele-membe]

Quote: GELEZNII_KAPUT

I agree that every frostbitten person would know that they can make a hole in his head, if that.

Now every frostbitten will act without warning. He only thinks the barrel is under your arm

[uav80]

Quote: loki565

And saiga versus Kalash is so-so perspective)))

How does the saiga differ from the Kalash, except that one can in bursts, and the other only in single bursts, no one bothers you to buy slices (if you have the right to do so, of course) ...
PS: if you compare it with a smooth one, then it will be shorter than 5,45 if you take large buckshot or bullets, such as PPSt, Ivanogo, Blondeau, Impact or Impulse ...

[uav80]

Quote: KSVK

It is strange that the initiative came so late.

The strangest thing is who exactly she did it from, if the authorities needed it, then they just made amendments to the ZOO long ago and no one would ask for anything, it's just a person who is bored, but constantly makes such proposals, then give him an all-Russian referendum on Lenin, then the ban on voting in elections to debtors, etc.

[Incvizitor]

proposes to deprive citizens of the Russian Federation responsible for participation in mass riots of the right to acquire weapons for the rest of their lives.

This is very correct, there is nothing to sell weapons to those who climb to smash, steal, kill.

[awdrgy]

Let me guess without reading it - it will be more difficult to acquire restrictions more to study longer the whole thing is more expensive and the overwhelming majority consider it not available but "better" and not necessary at all

[Thompson]

Can they serve in the army? And then suddenly either they betray or turn the weapon in the wrong direction.
Freaks from the word mu ...
By the way, the term “riots” itself is rather arbitrary and stretchy.
Fear for your cloudless existence

[Virus-free crown]

This is how a young man becomes 18 years old, according to the Law he goes to defend his Motherland-Mother, he is trusted from a machine gun to a cannon / grenade launcher / ... - and then comes from the army, and they tell him - “when you grow up (21 years old) - so be it, can you get a smoothbore?

Our laws are stupid, and those who adopt them ... For me, I served in the army - there is a record in the military soldier - you can immediately buy some sliced ​​meat !!!

[Gato]

We have stupid laws

Why are they immediately stupid? There is a certain logic in this. In the army, you are in the state. a structure that has the right to armed violence under control and by order. And in civilian life we ​​are uncontrolled and give orders to ourselves ... sometimes stupid

[Virus-free crown]

Quote: Gato

We have stupid laws

Why are they immediately stupid? There is a certain logic in this. In the army, you are in the state. a structure that has the right to armed violence under control and by order. And in civilian life we ​​are uncontrolled and give orders to ourselves ... sometimes stupid

Well then, explain, I'm a fool, why am I in the army for 2 years with a gun - and the type of norms, and when I return to civilian life, at first I have to own a smooth meat for 5 years, and then maybe I will be allowed to own a sliced ​​meat ?! The very next day after my dismissal from the army, I am turning from a defender of the Fatherland into an "unreasonable child" who needs to stand on his ears to get a license to carry and own at least a trauma ?! )))

[Dkuznecov]

Everything is correct. First buy a firearm
and then get out into the riots.
There will be no other chance.

[Gato]

You might think that if you decide to take part in the riots, you will drag your registered weapon to this exciting event ..

[Radikal]

This idea was addressed to the head of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the Russian Federation, Vladimir Kolokoltsev, Anton Orlov, who holds the post of director of the Institute for the Study of Contemporary Politics. A copy of the political scientist's official appeal is at the disposal of the RT channel.

Clown! Yo-my, how did they get it with their "initiatives"! This p_r_i ... du ... pk ... u should be advised. so that he introduced another project for consideration - a ban on the acquisition and use of firearms to participants, organizers, and heads of criminal gangs / communities, and killers, respectively.

[igorra]

There is no death penalty, sometimes they give 8 years for murder, serve 5 years, why shouldn't the people shoot. The entire Criminal Code is imprisoned for thieves, bandits and swindlers. There is no self-defense as such. So people have ceased to be afraid to cross the line.