"Now the ships of the Russian Navy have medium-range air defense": the US press about the appearance of the Pantsir-M air defense missile system

The Russian defense industry continues to develop new air defense systems to protect warships from air threats, including missiles, aircraft, helicopters, and unmanned aerial vehicles. Now the Russian Navy has a new product at its disposal.

With "Pantsir-M" the Russian fleet was able to destroy targets at short and medium distances

- writes the publication Navy Recognition (USA), commenting on the equipping of the naval version of the air defense missile system of the ships of the Russian Navy.

Developed in the 1960s in the United States, the 20mm Phalanx, as explained, remains the primary weapons Melee air defense of American and allied warships.

However, this should not reassure Russian specialists, since the numerical superiority of the US and NATO fleets and the sea aviation forces Russia to strengthen the melee air defense of single warships and formations

- the American press warns.

It is indicated that anti-ship stealth missiles, such as AGM-158, LRASM, MST, NSM, have been intensively developed in Western countries. It is assumed that in the next decade, the fleets of potential adversaries are likely to be armed with hypersonic anti-ship missiles.

"Pantsir-M" is one of the answers [to these challenges]

- writes the edition.

According to Navy Recognition, the ground-based version of the Pantsir-S complex "confirmed its effectiveness in Syria" during the defense of the Khmeimim airbase and the naval base in Tartus, successfully intercepting drones and MLRS shells. No less high performance was demonstrated by the export version of the Syrian army "Pantsir-S1".

In 2018-2019, Israeli aviation managed to destroy two "Shell", which were either unloaded or in a non-combat state. Several launchers were destroyed by Turkish UAVs during the fighting in Syrian Idlib and Libya in 2020. In most cases, the destroyed vehicles were in a non-combat state.

- believes the American edition.

MRK "Odintsovo" with ZRPK "Pantsir-M" (closer to the stern)

Comments

[Hunter 2]

Surprisingly, the mattress edition confirmed the destruction of the Shells in a NON-BATTLE state.
And we are glad, at last the Shell came to the Fleet!

[lucul]

And we are glad, at last the Shell came to the Fleet!

It remains only to "shove" it into the smallest detail. Because compared to the AK-630, this is a big step forward.
Only one thing surprises - Poliment -Redut was overwhelmed for many years, and Pantsir - they managed it in just a couple of years.

[Eugene-Eugene]

from the 15th year, at least they have been doing this. But the fact that the tests themselves took a little time is a fact. We were busy with Polyment-Redoubt for a long time.

[lucul]

But the fact that the tests themselves took a little time is a fact.

Yes, I am glad of course that at last the fleet has reliable protection.

[sivuch]

Why compare a hedgehog and a snake? There were an order of magnitude more fundamental problems with P-R.

[Cympak]

Only one thing surprises - Poliment -Redut was overwhelmed for many years, and Pantsir - they managed it in just a couple of years.

So a big backlog of "Dirk" / "Kashtan" was

[venik]

Quote: lucul

Only one thing surprises - Poliment -Redut was overwhelmed for many years, and Pantsir - they managed it in just a couple of years.

==========
Let's start with the fact that the "Shell" was "chilled" for a long time! Prototype there was also a "Kortik" sample of 1989! By the way - the same developer: Tula "KPBM" !!!

[Dart2027]

Quote: lucul

oliment -Redut were spoiled for many years, and Armor - in just a couple of years

Redoubt works at other distances, so there are more problems.

[Kuroneko]

Quote: Hunter 2

Surprisingly, the mattress edition confirmed the destruction of the Shells in a NON-BATTLE state.

In a combat state, "Pantsir" is only with the Russian military inside.

[Babayka babaykin]

I agree, pasties cannot work on this technique☝️

[Antifreeze]

Air defense is never superfluous to a ship. And the Americans even stopped installing Phalanx on the last Burke, citing the fact that they are not effective against the completion of anti-ship missiles.

[Dmitry Vladimirovich]

Quote: Antifreeze

Air defense is never superfluous to a ship. And the Americans even stopped installing Phalanx on the last Burke, citing the fact that they are not effective against the completion of anti-ship missiles.

So they showed RIM-116 efficiency 95%

In 10 different scenarios, real anti-ship missiles and Vandal supersonic missile targets (reaching speeds up to Mach 2.5) were successfully intercepted and destroyed in real conditions. The RAM Block 1 system from the first shot hit all targets, including those flying at extremely low altitude above the sea surface, diving and highly maneuverable targets in single and group attacks.
in total, more than 180 missiles were fired against anti-ship missiles and other targets, while achieving success in more than 95% of cases "

This complex covers an area from 0,5 to 10 km.
In the Block3 version, they will clearly expand the border of defeat.

The RIM-116 complex is much lighter (due to the abandonment of artillery machine guns), high accuracy and low reaction speed.

The only negative is that it is manually recharged :)

[venik]

Quote: Dmitry Vladimirovich

So they showed RIM-116 efficiency 95%

=========
When talking about the "probability of defeat" you need to consider: what target, what EPR, on what height flies maneuvers or notm (and if it maneuvers - then with WHAT overload!), what kind of jamming situation, etc., etc. ... Therefore, things like "the probability of defeat" should be treated with bo-o-o- With great care ... This - concerns ALL systems (both ours and theirs!) ......

[Lex_is]

When they talk about the "probability of defeat", one must take into account: what target, what RCS, at what altitude it flies, maneuvers or not

This is not enough to determine the likelihood of defeat:

real anti-ship missiles and Vandal supersonic missile targets (developing speeds up to Mach 2.5) were successfully intercepted and destroyed in real conditions. The RAM Block 1 system from the first shot hit all targets, including those flying at extremely low altitude above the sea surface, diving and highly maneuverable targets in single and group attacks.

?

[sivuch]

the devil is in the details. what was the speed of the target on the PMA and what is the PMA? 5, 15 or 25 meters? targets were maneuvering. if yes - which G? Did the goals come from different angles or, on the contrary, barbecue?
There are a lot of such questions. By the way, some Russian and Chinese (? - did not check) have a terminal speed of more than 2.5. Another nuance - in this air defense system it is assumed that the enemy anti-ship missile system has its own active GOS, and there may be options

[venik]

Quote: Lex_is

This is not enough to determine the likelihood of defeat:
real anti-ship missiles and Vandal supersonic missile targets (developing speeds up to Mach 2.5) were successfully intercepted and destroyed in real conditions. The RAM Block 1 system from the first shot hit all targets, including those flying at extremely low altitude above the sea surface, diving and highly maneuverable targets in single and group attacks.

==========
Not enough, of course! There are many parameters more!!!!

[merkava-2bet]

Not quite so, but because of savings, which is also strange, we save about 30 LAMs for two ZAK, while the destroyer costs $ 1,2 billion, such arithmetic.

[rotmistr60]

However, this should not reassure Russian specialists ... the American press warns.

I'm crazy. The American media advise Russian specialists not to calm down and, in fact, "keep the powder dry." It seems that the allies of Russia decided to warn that the US and NATO navy is not asleep, so be on the alert and work, work to increase your military potential.

[meandr51]

Our people, too, advised the Georgians to study military science in a real way.

[Vladimir61]

He would also have missiles with infrared guidance, and a larger package (for frigates and corvettes), like the Arctic version.

[lucul]

Still he would have missiles with IR guidance, and a larger package (for frigates and corvettes)

And I would like to give Pantsiru the ability to recharge, as, for example, in our RBU-6000 bomb))))

[Ros 56]

Of course, I'm a layman here, but while the bomb is being reloaded like this, the ship will be drowned several times.

[Rzzz]

Quote: Ros 56

but while the bomb launcher is being reloaded, the ship will be drowned several times.

Well, this is still a post-war development. Then the submarines were not so nimble.

[Ros 56]

The boat is half the battle, but the torpedoes will be faster.

[loki565]

Well, the chestnut / dagger was recharged just like that, and at once in a package of 4, probably something like that on the panzer.

[sgrabik]

Yes, 8 missiles are certainly not enough for such a complex, here the arctic version has 18 missiles, and in the marine version such a number of missiles would be just right !!!

[seregin-s1]

There are 16 more missiles in the storage and reloading system.
https://mtdata.ru/u18/photo2CAC/20212655320-0/original.jpg

[Cympak]

Under deck drums 2x4x4 = 32 rockets
An interesting question: are the used TPKs (already without missiles) dumped or returned to the below-deck storage?

[Ros 56]

The missile systems could have been equipped with six or nine instead of four, all the same, air defense is not superfluous on a ship, and the carrying capacity allows it, because this is not Kamaz. And in difficult times, an extra rocket will never be superfluous.

[Grits]

Quote: lucul

And I would like to give Pantsiru the ability to reload, like, for example, our RBU-6000 bomb

No, thanks. Manually faster.

[AVA77]

The appearance of arctic shells, nifiga not from Yudashkin. Looks, respect.

[antivirus]

I humbly hope that there is already, "in my thoughts" and modification "K" - space

[Guards turn]

Odintsovo is the first surface ship armed with Pantsir-M air defense missile system. The crew has already passed comprehensive training at the joint training center of the Navy in St. Petersburg and is ready to use new equipment and weapons. During the training of sailors, emphasis was placed on mastering new on-board systems.
In addition to the air defense system, the small missile ship has a high-precision missile system "Caliber", modern control systems, radio-technical weapons, radio communications, navigation, electronic warfare and others.

[APASUS]

Since there are no problems with dimensions on the ship, the naval version could be equipped with another locator. Although not a lot of a strange statement, for the Western edition. And this is generally a masterpiece of incompetence

in the next decade, the fleets of potential adversaries are likely to be armed with hypersonic anti-ship missiles.
"Pantsir-M" is one of the answers [to these challenges]
- writes the edition.

[Tektor]

Yes, Pantsir-M is good, you devil!

[Dmitry Vladimirovich]

Pantsir-M
Unlike the land version, instead of twin 2 mm 38A30M cannons, 6K30GSh six-barreled automatic guns are used in the naval air defense system.
Maximum target speed - up to 1000 m / s
The number of simultaneously fired targets - 4
The number of simultaneously guided missiles - 4
Missiles in firing position - 8
Reaction time - 3-5 sec

RAM (RIM-116A Mod 0,1.)
Weight above deck, kg: 7000 (including rockets)
Weight below deck, kg: 714
Ammunition missile: 11

In 10 different scenarios, real anti-ship missiles and Vandal supersonic missile targets (reaching speeds up to Mach 2.5) were successfully intercepted and destroyed in real conditions. The RAM Block 1 system from the first shot hit all targets, including those flying at extremely low altitude above the sea surface, diving and highly maneuverable targets in single and group attacks.
in total, more than 180 missiles were fired against anti-ship missiles and other targets, while achieving success in more than 95% of cases "

https://topwar.ru/31126-zenitnaya-raketa-ram-rim-116a.html

[lopuhan2006]

It's bad when the enemy praises. Carapace has weak points. It's better when they scold

[PSih2097]

Since when did "Pantsir" begin to finish off to medium range, when it is a direct defense / short-range complex (up to 10 km in radius)

[Victor Tsenin]

At SM up to 40 km, I believe at M + - in that area.

[Cympak]

The Pantsir missile may fly 40 km away, but it will not be able to shoot down a maneuvering target at such a distance because of the primitive laws of control: the three-point method and the half-straightening method. In addition, there is no engine in the second stage, so it will slow down significantly. In fact, a chance to shoot down only a non-maneuvering target flying directly to the "Shell"

[lucul]

In addition, there is no engine in the second stage, so it will slow down significantly. In fact, a chance to shoot down only a non-maneuvering target flying directly to the "Shell"

Well, we don't know what our MO can spare money for)))
It is quite possible that they can deliver more expensive missiles.
The main thing is that now even RTOs can have serious air defense.

[Cympak]

It is not necessary to climb with a good self-defense complex into the niche of the medium-range air defense system. The "thick" missile "Pantsir" is needed not to shoot at 40 km, but to shoot down targets faster, while opening up the SSTSR guidance channels (there are 4 of them) for new targets.

[lucul]

The thick "Pantsir" rocket is needed not to shoot at 40 km, but to shoot down targets faster, while opening up the SSTSR guidance channels (there are 4 of them) for new targets.

The declared range is 20 km. It all comes down to the cost and weight of the missiles. You can't shove rockets of a larger mass - the guidance drives are not designed for a large mass. It remains to raise the price of missiles, giving them the ability to intercept maneuvering targets.
But still the -20km range of the Shell looks much better than the 3.5km range of Kortik.

[Cympak]

At the words of an expensive rocket, Academician Shipunov turned over to his coffin;)
The whole idea of ​​the "Pantsir" in the most cheap and simple rocket (it seems there is not even a radio fuse there)

[merkava-2bet]

Yes, times are not the same, stealth and electronic warfare, as well as tactical techniques have seriously complicated the life of air defense / missile defense.

[sivuch]

there is a radio fuse. Otherwise, the warhead will not explode ... But he's semi-active.

[merkava-2bet]

There is an eight-beam laser fuse, like the Tunguska, and now in the new Tolstoy rockets, hell knows.

[sivuch]

Can you share the source of this information? and then here https://missilery.info/missile/panz
write quite unambiguously -. Fuses - contact and radar adaptive non-contact (firing radius up to 9m)
And Comrade Zhigunov s Courage, whom, excuse me, I believe more, specifically specified - semi-active.

[merkava-2bet]

There are no semi-active radio fuses, only active semi-active radars only, with illumination from the carrier's radar, ground, ship or aircraft.

[sivuch]

The same Zhigunov claims (with photographs) that it is the semi-active RVs on the Pantsir. And this, by the way, is not so good. Look for a specific quote if you want. But then with you a bottle of good red - I'll write which one.

[lucul]

and in order to quickly shoot down targets, while opening up the SSTSR guidance channels (there are 4 of them) for new targets.

How many Harpoon anti-ship missiles are there on Arleigh Burke? )))

[merkava-2bet]

More precisely, how many of them are on the aircraft carrier, which Arleigh Burke guards, and of the newest anti-ship cruise missiles that enter service with the surface and air forces.

[sivuch]

If the range and speed have increased, then the parameter will also increase, incl. on a maneuvering target. But, in general - yes, the ship protects itself. In principle, it is also possible to stick in another control method - the tetrahedrons offered this for almost all Zur with RK. sure . Will it really be done. I do not know .

[Pavel57]

It was always surprising how the RAM with the TGS manages to capture the "cold target".

[Cympak]

Initially, the RAM missile is aimed at the operating radar seeker of the anti-ship missile system (if it is there), and then it captures the IR-seeker.

[merkava-2bet]

There are no cold bodies when flying in the atmosphere, turbulent currents, a wake jet, ionization, as well as the engine exhaust itself, all this is seen by a modern thermal imager and also a radar with a PAR or AFAR.

[sivuch]

it was about the missile seeker

[merkava-2bet]

So I said about the rocket, the rocket has an advantage; when approaching the target, the selection and sensitivity are improved compared to systems on the carrier, that is, a ship or an aircraft.

[sivuch]

Then what has the PAR and the AFAR to do with it? NNZ, they are not on the rocket and are not expected.

[merkava-2bet]

Come on, on the anti-ship missiles the Harpoon has a phased array with 80x shaggy ones, on the missiles the standard of the latest models is also a phased array, replaced by an AFAR. What I wrote above, modern phased array systems, and even better, the AFAR has the ability to detect not only the target itself but also its trace in the atmosphere , like the submariners' wake trail of submarines or NK. This effect was actually applied in 1973, during the Yom Kippur War, when the Egyptians had Soviet radars of the P-15 and P-18 types recorded two targets during the passage of the SR-71 Black Bird, one of the aircraft itself and the second from its wake shock wave, that's what I wrote about above.

[sivuch]

And what has Harpoon, Standard and everything else to do with it? It was about one specific missile defense system with IR seeker - i.e. RAM (RIM-116)

[merkava-2bet]

And since when did Shell M become medium range, did I miss something?

[Escobar]

Isn't this a short-range air defense system?

[starshina]

You can’t believe us --- if they praise, then everything is not as smooth as we would like with the Armor !!! And there really are problems, especially in the fight against drones .. And bragging and hating is useless here --- we need a thorough modernization work !!!

[Pavel57]

Quote: Dmitry Vladimirovich

So they showed RIM-116 efficiency 95%

I wonder for what purposes - Harpoons or Exoset?

[Land defence]

In my opinion, the fleet should have an object for practicing the protection of Pantsirem-M from attacks by real anti-ship missiles "on you". Better coastal, when the staff is hidden "for every fireman" somewhere off to the side in the catacombs.