Military Review

Loitering ammunition: history and the Karabakh case

79

The most popular Harop loitering ammunition in the media. Source: planeta.press


Effective kamikaze toys


It would seem, what is difficult in defining a loitering ammunition? However, the British Department of Defense has built such a heavyweight wording:

“Inexpensive guided high-precision projectiles that stay in the air for a certain time in standby mode and then quickly attack over-the-horizon ground or sea targets; loitering ammunition is controlled by an operator who sees on the screen in front of him an image of the target and the environment in real time and, thanks to this, has the ability to control the exact time, position in space and direction of attack of a stationary, movable or mobile object, directly participating in the process of its identification and confirmation of the data about the purpose ".


It can be seen from the definition that flying kamikaze are collected from some solid pluses.


IAI Harop. Source: wikipedia.org

In the western press, the advantages of such a technique include a noticeable reduction in the time from the moment a target is detected and its destruction, as well as a decrease in collateral damage from use. At the same time, the loitering weapon in some cases turns out to be cheaper than traditional artillery and guided aerial bombs. To reliably defeat single targets that are out of line of sight, a large consumption of expensive ammunition is required - shells, mines, unguided missiles, etc. Often for this it is necessary to lift manned strike equipment into the air, which is expensive and risky. With a successful combination of circumstances, loitering ammunition will do this job much faster and more economically.

Do not forget that a technically savvy enemy is able to track the location of an artillery installation (battery) and destroy an unmasked weapon with a return salvo. The flying kamikaze has no such disadvantage. Finally, the advantage of a remotely controlled strike complex with television cameras on board is a powerful propaganda effect. One has only to remember what impression the videos with the destruction of manpower and armored vehicles of the forces of Nagorno-Karabakh and Armenia made. This was especially acutely perceived in the Russian segment of the Internet. The real panic was caused by the massive use by Azerbaijan of Bayraktar TB2 drones and many Israeli and Turkish kamikazes. The main motive for hysteria is that Russia does not have such weapons and adequate protection.


Internet project of the domestic kamikaze drone "Ariadna". Source: vk.com

In one of the thematic groups of "defense" topics, VKontakte even launched (attention!) An independent development of the first domestic loitering ammunition. The project was named "Ariadne" and a brief technical description was presented:

“Loitering ammunition is a modular electronic-optical missile system of 152 mm caliber designed to destroy armored vehicles, protected objects (such as bunkers, bunkers, bunkers) and engineering structures, surface targets and enemy personnel, as well as low-speed air targets (UAVs, helicopters ) at a distance of up to 25 km, in the absence of direct visibility of the target. The Ariadne is launched from a sealed transport and launch container (TPK), which greatly simplifies its operation in the army. TPK can be installed on air (including UAV), sea and land (armored vehicles, armored personnel carriers, infantry fighting vehicles) carriers, it is also possible to launch TPK from the machine (the approximate mass of the TPK with a rocket is 70 kg). "


The developers are planning to create a 3D model of "Ariadne" and virtual blowing in a wind tunnel.

The first experienced


There are still debates about the place of loitering ammunition in the world weapons hierarchy. Most experts believe that this is a type of unmanned aircraft equipped with a warhead. And some attribute kamikaze with wings to guided missiles with a loitering function. The first opinion is supported by the optional possibility of some loitering ammunition to be used as a scout.

For example, the Polish Warmate drone, in addition to the cumulative GK-1 and the GO-1 high-explosive fragmentation warhead, can be equipped with optical and infrared surveillance systems. In this case, the aircraft is able to return home and land. Some kamikaze drones are already at the base equipped with parachutes and inflatable rafts for rescue in case of failure to fulfill a combat mission or lack of targets on the battlefield.


American experienced Brave-200. Source: hippostcard.com

Many believe that loitering ammunition is a relatively new type of weapon, but the first active developments are more than 40 years old. In the late 70s, MBB developed an anti-tank version of the Tucan drone, and a few years later Boeing developed the Brave 200 anti-radar flying kamikaze. The drones were housed in 15 pieces in a block launcher, ready for practical use. Despite positive reviews and several successfully tested prototypes, the project was abandoned in the mid-80s.

Israeli priority


It is no coincidence that the destruction of enemy air defense targets was among the priority tasks of the first developments of kamikaze drones. During the Cold War, the Soviet Union was seen as a priority enemy, undoubtedly its strong point was its powerful air defense forces. Therefore, the destruction of the radar (without the risk of losing an expensive aircraft and pilot) was seen as a tempting goal.


IAI Harpy. Source: wikipedia.org

In the mid-80s, Israel Aircraft Industries developed the Harpy drone, which later became serial. The unmanned aerial vehicle, 2,7 meters long, was equipped with a 2,1-meter deltoid wing and a pusher propeller. The kamikaze is driven by a 38 hp rotary piston engine. from. For its time, this type of power plant provided the necessary compactness and high power density. Over time, internal combustion engines on small-sized kamikaze will be replaced by electric motors, and lithium-ion batteries will replace the fuel tanks. Harpy in the late 80s developed with 32 kg of explosives on board cruising 185 km / h and flew at a range of up to 500 kilometers. The homing head made it possible to automatically search for and destroy sources of radar radiation.

In 2009, IAI announced the Harop loitering ammunition - a variant of the Harpy drone, but with an optoelectronic homing head for hitting priority, especially important mobile objects. In Harop ammunition, the round hull has been replaced with a more complex profile, and the sweep of the leading edge has been reduced in the delta wing. The projectile can be launched at any angle, along a vertical or horizontal trajectory from various mobile platforms, including land-based and sea-based launch containers, as well as air platforms in the direction of the intended target area.

Hero family


The widest range of patrolling weapons for various purposes is currently offered by the Israeli company UVision. The central place in the manufacturer's portfolio is occupied by the Hero series of kamikaze drones. The most compact is the Hero 30 backpack tactical ammunition weighing 3 kg with an electric motor. The drone is launched from a container launcher. The maximum duration of its flight is 30 minutes, the range is from 5 to 40 km, and the mass of the warhead is 0,5 kg.

The larger longer-range projectile Hero 400 has a 40 kg caliber, an 8 kg warhead and a gasoline engine. The duration of its flight is already 4 hours, and the maximum range within the line of sight is 150 km. If Hero 30 is intended for action against personnel, then Hero 400 destroys Tanks and armored vehicles.

All Hero versions have extremely low acoustic and infrared signatures, can be used as loitering projectiles or reusable reconnaissance, surveillance and data acquisition systems equipped with a parachute and a stabilized block of electro-optical and infrared sensors of our own design. Designers from UVision place a special emphasis on the versatility of ammunition - weapons can be integrated both on land and sea carriers, and on aircraft delivery vehicles.

A further development of the 400 model was the electric version of the Hero 400EC, which differs from its predecessor in its exceptional low noise and X-shaped empennage. The Hero 70 kamikaze drone (weight - 7 kg, warhead - 1,2 kg, range - up to 40 km, loitering time - 40 minutes) and the heaviest among tactical Hero 120 (weight - 12,5 kg, warhead 3,5 kg, range - up to 40 km, loitering time - 60 minutes).


The Hero family. Source: uvisionuav.com

The line of so-called strategic loitering ammunition (the term UVision) opens with a gasoline Hero 250 with a five-kilogram warhead. Due to the piston engine, the kamikaze can stay in the air for up to 3 hours and fly 150 kilometers. Heavy models Hero 900 and Hero 1250 carry 20 and 30 kg of explosives, respectively, and can operate at a distance of 200-250 kilometers.

Currently, dozens of companies around the world are developing and producing families of loitering ammunition, which differ in the level of tasks being solved and in design characteristics. They are in service with the armies of the US, Israel, Turkey, China, Great Britain, Poland and, of course, Azerbaijan.

Kamikaze of Nagorno-Karabakh


In the course of the recent conflict between Azerbaijan and Armenia with Nagorno-Karabakh, the effective use of shock drones and loitering ammunition has become a real hallmark. The topic of UAVs is beyond the scope of this material, so let's dwell on unmanned kamikaze in more detail.

The lightest was the Turkish Alpagu from STM with a mass of 3,7 kg, a combat radius of 5 km and an airborne time of up to 20 minutes. A larger Israeli Skystriker was used in the sky of Nagorno-Karabakh, which already carries 5 or 10 kg of explosives (depending on the version) and is capable of staying in the air for up to 6 hours.


Israeli Skystiker. Source: elbitsystems.com

The Azerbaijani army is armed with the aforementioned IAI Harop, as well as the newest IAI Mini Harpy. The latest model is tailored for the destruction of anti-aircraft missile systems. Loitering ammunition is capable of detecting radiation from an all-altitude detector or radar for illumination and guidance. Further, the kamikaze works as an anti-radar missile, delivering 8 kg of explosives to the enemy.

The baptism of fire during the conflict was passed by the Azerbaijani-Turkish kamikaze drone Iti Qovan, developed on the basis of the Zerbe loitering ammunition. This device carries 2 kg of warhead with 4 thousand striking elements and is capable of flying 100 kilometers with a practical ceiling of 4,5 thousand meters.

Among the many targets destroyed by Azerbaijani kamikaze drones, a special place is occupied by the 36D6 (19Zh6) mobile three-coordinate airspace surveillance radar, which can be attached to the S-300PS air defense missile system division. The IAI Mini Harpy drone mentioned above also destroyed the Armenian S-300P air defense system, which was specific to itself. These were perhaps the most important and costly targets for comparatively low-cost vehicles. The information about the destruction was based on the data of objective video monitoring from the board of loitering ammunition.




Iti Qovan kamikaze drone from Baku. Source: grabcad.com

All of the above can create the impression that the patrolling weapons, coupled with Bayraktar TB2 attack drones, provided the lion's share of Azerbaijan's victory over Armenia in Nagorno-Karabakh. However, this is not at all the case. The morally and technically obsolete Armenian air defense systems Strela-10, Osa-AKM and modifications of the S-300 could still successfully operate on a manned aviation... This, incidentally, was the main reason why combat aircraft and helicopters were practically not used during the war. But against drones of various stripes, all this technique is powerless - for example, the electric motor of a loitering ammunition, due to the lack of an IR signature, is not captured even by MANPADS.

As the retired colonel and editor-in-chief of the Arsenal of the Fatherland magazine Viktor Murakhovsky justly noted in one of his interviews, the main problem of the troops of Armenia and Nagorno-Karabakh was not Azerbaijan's drones. Even with complete superiority of the enemy in the air, one can quite successfully defend and even attack. To do this, it is worth looking at how terrorists in Syria have been surviving under the blows of the Russian Aerospace Forces for five years.

Victory is always forged by ground troops and the outcome of battles and war in the end depends on their effective work.

Artsakh was not ready for this war. There was a shortage of elementary engineering structures that would provide shelter from air attacks, barriers, rubble and minefields were not arranged. And this is only a small part of the problems of the defenders of Nagorno-Karabakh. All this allowed the Azerbaijani military to feel quite at ease in the operational space and not give up the initiative to the enemy. And loitering ammunition, coupled with shock drones, played only an auxiliary, albeit very effective role here.
Author:
79 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. Thrifty
    Thrifty 1 December 2020 18: 23
    +2
    I agree with the author that the Karabakh army is completely heavenly for the war. The equipment that they had was partially struck by rust, the cars were not serviced normally, there was no reactive armor and at least home-made anti-cumulative screens welded on the knee. It seems that everything was left to chance there. And, as for the kamikaze drones, in Russia, at least they swayed in the sense that, at the very least, progress is in the form of its ready-made samples of such weapons. It is not known whether they have been adopted, I would like to believe that yes. And, I think, we will occupy our niche in the world arms market with such ammunition, pushing out competitors even in the face of the Israelis.
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 1 December 2020 18: 40
      +3
      Russia at least swayed in the sense that at the very least, but progress is in the form of its ready-made samples of such weapons


      Great question. The main doer is Zala, and almost nothing goes to the army from her. And again, exhibition layouts yes, but about the samples even in the prototype there is a big question wink .



      Regarding the Lancets it is reliable - there is a concept, there are docks, there are LL / layouts on which solutions were partially worked out, there is a brochure and participation in 3 exhibitions.

      And zero information that the Ministry of Defense is interested in this at all.
      1. OgnennyiKotik
        OgnennyiKotik 1 December 2020 18: 56
        +2
        They also have a CUB-UAV.

        Quote: donavi49
        And zero information that the Ministry of Defense is interested in this at all.

        This is the key issue. There were a lot of drone / kamikaze UAV projects, 20-25 years ago, the burden of the Ministry of Defense simply does not understand how to use them.
        This is how Orlan-10 can be made in the form of a kamikaze, the simplest and most effective solution.
      2. Alexander Galaktionov
        Alexander Galaktionov 1 December 2020 19: 48
        +1
        For these unmanned aerial vehicles kamikaze HALL out in Syria to test, but the Ministry of Defense is in no hurry
      3. Alexander Galaktionov
        Alexander Galaktionov 1 December 2020 20: 07
        +1
        By the way, in the film about the MTR, the UAV was launched just from the HALL from the trailer. The HALL has very good drones.
      4. Artunis
        Artunis 6 December 2020 14: 58
        0
        Here's a catch-up info https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7n2lz8p4K0
    2. Doccor18
      Doccor18 1 December 2020 18: 42
      +4
      ... pushing out competitors, even the Israelis.

      Currently, dozens of companies around the world are developing and producing families of loitering ammunition

      It would be nice, along with the development of the domestic school of UAVs, to develop methods for their effective and inexpensive destruction ...
      1. Snusmumrik
        Snusmumrik 1 December 2020 20: 06
        0
        Quote: Doccor18
        It would be nice, along with the development of the domestic school of UAVs, to develop methods for their effective and inexpensive destruction ...

        Perhaps we have them?
    3. businessv
      businessv 1 December 2020 18: 52
      +1
      Quote: Thrifty
      It is not known whether they have been adopted, I would like to believe that yes. And, I think, we will occupy our niche in the world arms market with such ammunition, pushing out competitors even in the face of the Israelis.
      I wonder what our MO thinks about this? Apparently, the lack of Soviet groundwork and developments in this type of weapons strongly affects the decision-making on their development! And at the moment, VK is still driving at this stage of the development of promising weapons! wink
    4. Albay
      Albay 11 February 2021 23: 09
      -1
      I agree with the author that air defense systems were powerless against drones, because they could not perform tasks to detect and destroy such targets. The author is mistaken that the Armenians did not have engineering structures to protect against air attacks, rubble and minefields. I myself saw in In the Fizuli direction, many kilometers of bunkers, shafts and minefields. In the Fizuli direction and in the Agdam direction there were multi-level echeloned defense lines. In some places, especially in dangerous for a tank breakthrough, the depth of echeloned defense was up to 15 km.
      As far as I saw in the direction of Fizuli, where there was a breakthrough, the Armenians after breaking through their three lines of defense no longer had reserves to fill the positions ready for defense. Weak logistics and the inability to pull up reserves there, massive desertion and, of course, competent management of the offensive by the Azerbaijani operational headquarters, excellent the training of special operations forces and the tactics they employed decided the fate of the southern front and the entire war.
  2. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 1 December 2020 18: 27
    0
    Maybe not the lion's share in this conflict was played by UAVs and kamikaze drones, but tangible.
  3. rocket757
    rocket757 1 December 2020 18: 33
    +5
    Standard situation .... a specific type of weapon develops, countermeasures will develop.
    1. sergey32
      sergey32 1 December 2020 19: 01
      +4
      As I already wrote my opinion as a relatively inexpensive solution to the problem of protecting troops from UAVs. In addition to the existing military air defense, to remove from conservation the good old anti-aircraft artillery of the post-war development of the caliber of 100-130 mm. Develop a projectile with programmable detonation and a huge number of submunitions. For target designation, a helicopter-type tethered drone powered by a cable. And reach the enemy up to 30 km in range and up to 10 in height.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 1 December 2020 19: 26
        +2
        Let's see how the development of countermeasures goes.
        It's time, the time has come.
        Most likely, as most often they do, an integrated approach.
      2. alpamys
        alpamys 1 December 2020 19: 46
        0
        Quote: sergey32
        As I already wrote my opinion as a relatively inexpensive solution to the problem of protecting troops from UAVs. In addition to the existing military air defense, to remove from conservation the good old anti-aircraft artillery of the post-war development of the caliber of 100-130 mm. Develop a projectile with programmable detonation and a huge number of submunitions. For target designation, a helicopter-type tethered drone powered by a cable. And reach the enemy up to 30 km in range and up to 10 in height.

        The Germans made one, with 152 striking elements .. but it turned out to be a costly thing .. we need another way, so that the drones stop taking off altogether.
  4. Fungus
    Fungus 1 December 2020 18: 41
    -23%
    All these kamikaze drones and attack UAVs against the Papuans are good. Against a normal army, these are useless pieces of iron. By the way, ours in Syria tested our kamikaze drones against terrorists. Unofficially.
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 1 December 2020 18: 51
      +11
      Well, the Papuans have been carried away for the last 15 years, especially the last 5 years, effectively. As for a normal army, this will only show the application. That is, it will be too late to think if the performance is high.

      By the way, let me remind you that it was a painful flight to Khimki from Aliexpress. After that, there, at a pace, they began to build first anti-fragmentation lines, and then they dragged full-fledged canopies + air defense.


      Babakhs used such systems for quite sensitive blows, in which military experts and generals of Russia died. And with the stadium in general it turned out epic. A couple of bombs and huge damage, a bunch of burnt-out equipment, thousands of shells, mines, anti-tank systems, hail ...



      Well, the Houthis regularly break through the Saudi shield.
      1. Fungus
        Fungus 1 December 2020 19: 47
        -16%
        Khmeimim was fired upon from mortars. So go by. Against a normal army, these drones are useless pieces of iron.
        1. Alexander Galaktionov
          Alexander Galaktionov 1 December 2020 20: 01
          +6
          These drones destroyed the radar of the S 300 complex, this says a lot, consider a drone worth $ 100 thousand or more to withdraw a division worth $ 250 million
      2. Alexander Galaktionov
        Alexander Galaktionov 1 December 2020 20: 12
        0
        Anti-fragmentation at the Khmeimim base at that time, all military sites wrote what they needed
      3. srelock
        srelock 1 December 2020 22: 37
        +2
        Quote: donavi49
        ... By the way, let me remind you that it hurt to fly to Khimki from Aliexpress. After that, there, at a pace, they began to build first anti-fragmentation lines, and then they dragged full-fledged canopies + air defense.

        This is the result of a group of bearded hares by Syrian warriors who brought a small-caliber mortar to the base.
        https://hvvaul-87.su/news/operation_in_syria/the-shelling-of-the-air-base-hamim-in-syria-31-12-2017
        1. Cympak
          Cympak 2 December 2020 02: 22
          +2
          The main mistake was that they did not immediately put the planes in the gabions and did not begin to make a canopy over them. And with the mortar they got off easy, it could be much worse.
    2. Doccor18
      Doccor18 1 December 2020 18: 56
      +1
      Quote: Fungus
      Against a normal army, these are useless pieces of iron.

      If there are many .. a lot?
      If there are several times more of them than the ammunition load of all air defense systems?
      If we also consider that they, from year to year, become cheaper to manufacture ...
      1. ZAV69
        ZAV69 1 December 2020 19: 09
        +2
        Is finance enough to do a lot, a lot?
        And who said that an ordinary shilka cannot work with these drones? In principle, it only needs target designation; it is not so difficult to upgrade it if desired to obtain third-party target designation.
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 1 December 2020 19: 42
          +6
          80 percent of parts for such UAVs can already be printed on 3D printers, so they will become cheaper from year to year, and their production will increase, and then it will come to cheap and high-quality optics.
          1. ZAV69
            ZAV69 2 December 2020 00: 45
            0
            Well, by that time, anti-aircraft ammunition will become cheaper. In fact, it is not necessary to take out a lot of barging ammunition.
  5. SaLaR
    SaLaR 1 December 2020 18: 50
    +2
    Quote: Leader of the Redskins
    Maybe not the lion's share in this conflict was played by UAVs and kamikaze drones, but tangible.

    In any case, morally, they pressed specifically ...
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 1 December 2020 20: 02
      +1
      In Russia, it seems like a hypersonic multipurpose missile based on the Hermes ATGM system is being made - the drone detects the target coordinates and transmits the image of the observed object to it - unlike kamikaze drones, objects will be hit quickly and efficiently, since all military air defense against such missiles will be it is almost useless, due to the high speed and minimum flight altitude, it will be possible to deploy such missiles on the Kamaz and Ural bases as, in fact, the reconnaissance UAV. And again, the drone can direct artillery to the position and the artillery itself can use guided high-precision projectiles, and in terms of combat impact this will be much stronger than kamikaze drone attacks.
  6. O. Bender
    O. Bender 1 December 2020 19: 14
    +1
    While the kamikaze drones are in the top, 5kg TNT will take out the antenna systems of any radar operating with the power turned on, it is stupid to aim by radiation. You will be bothered to rebuild the equipment to a different carrier frequency. This problem. To detect on time, to issue a tsu, plus the time to acquire a target is not an easy task, but it can be solved. Competent officials I hope will understand this.
    1. cmax
      cmax 2 December 2020 00: 59
      +1
      Quote: O. Bender
      While the kamikaze drones are in the top, 5kg TNT will take out the antenna systems of any radar operating with the power turned on, it is stupid to aim by radiation. You will be bothered to rebuild the equipment to a different carrier frequency. This problem. To detect on time, to issue a tsu, plus the time to acquire a target is not an easy task, but it can be solved. Competent officials I hope will understand this.

      They understand that the terms of reference will be prepared for a year, the competition has been played for a year, they will wait for funding for a year, a year for research and development, etc., 2 years for the production of prototypes ... !! If the funds are not stolen by 2030.
  7. MP
    MP 1 December 2020 19: 36
    +3
    Now the problem is that it is not clear how to deal with such small-sized and low-temperature targets. MANPADS do not capture them, small-caliber artillery itself is a target for them. While the sword is superior to the shield. Whether the electronic warfare helps is also not clear. What if swarms of hundreds and thousands of drones are used? Here, probably only an EMP pulse can help.
    1. Fungus
      Fungus 1 December 2020 19: 48
      -21%
      Electronic warfare will burn a swarm of Drones. No wonder our emphasis on air defense and electronic warfare is doing great. They know what's what.
      1. Alexander Galaktionov
        Alexander Galaktionov 1 December 2020 19: 58
        +8
        Electronic warfare does not need to be attributed there are no analogues in the world and we will throw everyone's hats, we also underestimate the enemy
    2. Avior
      Avior 1 December 2020 23: 26
      +1
      unlikely.
      the plane can withstand a direct lightning strike, not a single Emy pulse has such an energy even close.
      therefore, the protection of the UAV is not difficult to provide.
  8. alpamys
    alpamys 1 December 2020 19: 52
    +2
    Some ten years ago, a video appeared on the network about how the Americans, having remotely changed the injection settings of a diesel ship engine installed on the stand, achieved that it began to vibrate and broke itself, in my opinion this is a very promising direction.
  9. Alexander Galaktionov
    Alexander Galaktionov 1 December 2020 19: 55
    +4
    The fact that the kamikaze UAV destroyed the 36D6 radar says a lot, you can cheaply destroy the radar, the radar could not detect a very small EPR in the kamikadze
  10. stone
    stone 1 December 2020 19: 57
    +4
    Apart from kamikaze and drones, it looks like a lot of Spikes have worked there. Although there weren't many videos, as I understand it, at the request of the Israelis, so as not to escalate.
    1. Alexander Galaktionov
      Alexander Galaktionov 1 December 2020 20: 11
      +3
      Adhesions were also used like Laura and other MLOs. For the Israelis, this is a good experience to test their systems in a combat situation and their sales will increase
      1. Interlocutor
        Interlocutor 1 December 2020 23: 10
        +3
        It is a good experience for the Israelis to test their systems in combat.

        They have tested them for a long time in all conditions.
    2. Albay
      Albay 11 February 2021 23: 17
      -1
      A video with the work of spikes is enough, but mainly on tanks.
  11. strannik1985
    strannik1985 1 December 2020 20: 08
    +1
    For reliable defeat of single targets
    What prevents the use of a WTO to destroy single targets, including detected UAVs? The fire performance of such an RUK is, by definition, greater than an attack UAV or loitering ammunition.
    What hinders the implementation of dispersal and TAG fire weapons of RUK?
  12. svoit
    svoit 1 December 2020 20: 32
    +1
    To do this, it is worth looking at how terrorists in Syria have been surviving under the blows of the Russian Aerospace Forces for five years.
    I wonder how much WTO was used there? And although it is quite enough (there are shells and bombs and missiles), you have to save a lot, otherwise the country will be left without them at all.
    And loitering ammunition, coupled with shock drones, played only an auxiliary

    Let's imagine for a moment that they are not there, the result would not be so depressing for the Armenians, although the author is unlikely to agree.
    1. Albay
      Albay 11 February 2021 23: 18
      -1
      The result would be the same, but it would take longer.
  13. Pavel57
    Pavel57 1 December 2020 20: 52
    +1
    Historical, apparently the first barrage, was the American unmanned Wildcat with a TV camera and a warhead, which was used to a limited extent by the Americans against the Japanese.
  14. Evgeny Seleznev
    Evgeny Seleznev 1 December 2020 21: 15
    +2
    The good thing is with the return function when the target is not found. Well done.
    1. Ua3qhp
      Ua3qhp 1 December 2020 21: 59
      +2
      I wonder how he will fly if he suppresses the communication and navigation channels?
      1. Samir
        Samir 2 December 2020 15: 40
        +1
        The Israeli developments have an automatic guidance system along the beam of the installation, an attempt to feed a drone will most likely lead to the destruction of the complex.
        1. Ua3qhp
          Ua3qhp 2 December 2020 17: 13
          0
          Homing on the radar or at the station for jamming navigation and communication channels.
          It looks like it will soon be "good practice" to include GPS suppression on the battlefield.
      2. Evgeny Seleznev
        Evgeny Seleznev 2 December 2020 18: 46
        +1
        There, if I'm not mistaken, there is a UAV return function. And if it falls, it's not a pity, it's a pity for our helicopter in Armenia and its crew.
  15. Imobile
    Imobile 1 December 2020 22: 07
    +3
    Viktor Murakhovsky, the main problem of the troops of Armenia and Nagorno-Karabakh was not the drones of Azerbaijan. Even with complete superiority of the enemy in the air, one can quite successfully defend and even attack. To do this, it is worth looking at how terrorists in Syria have been surviving under the blows of the Russian Aerospace Forces for five years.
    Drones don't equal planes! If Russia had the same drones or better, the terrorists would be doing even worse than the Armenians! Aircraft are only in the air for several hours and have much worse visibility, they were not created for this. Drones control a much larger area and stay in the air for longer. And they are not afraid to lose, you can fly wherever possible will be destroyed.
    All of the above may give the impression that the patrolling weapons, coupled with Bayraktar TB2 attack drones, provided the lion's share of Azerbaijan's victory over Armenia in Nagorno-Karabakh. However, this is not at all true.
    If not, please provide arguments. So far this is the case. The Armenian army was in very good condition for the money that went into its equipment. And judging by the personnel, she acted 1000 times more correctly, according to the Soviet military science, especially looking at the clumsy maneuvers of Azerbaijanis. Don't be drones, Armenia took out Azerbaijan with a score of 10: 0 Everything is changing, and the Armenians were preparing for the war of 90. Azerbaijan spent much more on the army, but much less money was spent on the war.
    And a flying airplane is not equal to a drone. We don't have drones. This is a tactic where the main thing is real-time, communication, electronics and interaction.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 3 December 2020 00: 40
      +1
      And what would these drones do with the terrorists' fortifications and bunkers? Kamikaze drones are good for destroying mobile units of militants or DRGs, but in the case of Syria, where there were hundreds of thousands of militants, the many fortified positions of drones would not be enough - due to the rather meager capabilities of these in combat load - and artillery fire can be adjusted using conventional scout drones kamikaze drones are more for poor countries are suitable that cannot afford the bulk purchases of aircraft and precision ammunition.
    2. Albay
      Albay 11 February 2021 23: 26
      -1
      Hello imobile. I would like to clarify with you or that "military genius" whose words perhaps you cite what is the awkwardness of the actions of the military command of Azerbaijan and what are the correct actions of the Armenian commanders? Was there anything they would counterattack there? or under the Zangilan when the infantry was framed by the volleys of Azerbaijani MLRS? This Azerbaijani command won 10: 0.
  16. MrFox
    MrFox 1 December 2020 22: 08
    +2
    The author's leitmotif is that drones are pampering, whoever raises problems associated with the lack of these weapons will be hysterical, everything is decided by the soldiers' mass, a bullet is a fool, a bayonet is a fine fellow.

    Exhale
    1. Vladimir247
      Vladimir247 2 December 2020 12: 05
      +2
      I understand that too. The author is clearly at odds with logic. I tried to pull an owl onto the globe, citing as an example the actions of our aviation in Syria. I would like to ask, where is the result? And the result is that the barmales will now live in Nagorno-Karabakh.
  17. Herman 4223
    Herman 4223 1 December 2020 22: 11
    +3
    Barrage ammunition weighing up to 10kg and a cumulative warhead, a good replacement for ATGMs, cost about the same or even cheaper, and I think in the future they will greatly squeeze the latter. The drone crew can be located much further in the rear, out of visual visibility without being exposed to retaliation.
    1. Interlocutor
      Interlocutor 1 December 2020 23: 12
      +1
      The drone crew can be located much further in the rear, out of visual visibility without being exposed to retaliation.

      In this case, it is necessary for the enemy to inflict such losses or damage that he would think about using drones in the future ... This is simple logic. The enemy must be informed through official and unofficial channels. This is the work of specialists.
      1. Herman 4223
        Herman 4223 2 December 2020 07: 27
        +1
        I didn’t understand a little, these are not nuclear weapons, why should the enemy think about using them if he has them? Moreover, specialists can do it through official and non-official channels when the war is already underway. If the enemy has a gun, then it will shoot, it will be silent only in the absence of shells or technical problems.
        1. Interlocutor
          Interlocutor 2 December 2020 09: 53
          +1
          I didn’t understand a little, these are not nuclear weapons, why should the enemy think about using them if he has them?

          Yes maybe . But the task is to "convince" the enemy not to use them in unequal conditions. Here you have to think. But the Armenians didn’t think about it, they started partisanship. And in general they were not ready for this battle.
          1. Herman 4223
            Herman 4223 2 December 2020 10: 16
            +1
            Yes, it is impossible to convince the enemy not to use weapons if they have them. Now, if the Armenians had something to answer, for example, if you use drones, then we use a nuclear bomb, then Azerbaijan might think. One thought is not enough, you need strength to answer. A bespectacled man is smarter than a gopnik, but if they meet in a dark alley, then, despite his intelligence and desire to think, the bespectacled man will not be able to convince the gopnik not to use force.
            1. Interlocutor
              Interlocutor 2 December 2020 11: 24
              +1
              I agree. For this reason, the Armenians lost.
              1. Herman 4223
                Herman 4223 2 December 2020 11: 41
                0
                I think there are many reasons.
                1. Albay
                  Albay 11 February 2021 23: 28
                  +1
                  There are many reasons and the main one is that the Azerbaijani army prepared for this war at the highest level.
    2. Vadim237
      Vadim237 3 December 2020 00: 45
      0
      The drones are too slow and the tank will have a KAZ and even turret machine-gun mounts in conjunction with this KAZ - all kamikaze drones will shoot down with a bang.
      1. Herman 4223
        Herman 4223 3 December 2020 06: 46
        -1
        The drone is small and quiet, when it can be replaced by eye until the tank is about a hundred meters away, while in a dive it picks up a maximum speed of 100-150 km, so it's very difficult to shoot it down with a machine gun. Yes, KAZ diving at a steep angle may not notice the ammunition.
        1. Albay
          Albay 11 February 2021 23: 30
          -1
          Hi Herman. Harop is very noisy and due to this, it causes decent panic in the ranks of the enemy.
          1. Herman 4223
            Herman 4223 12 February 2021 13: 24
            0
            Harop is a large bird, with a warhead of more than 20 kg.
  18. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 1 December 2020 22: 29
    +1
    There were a couple of models from Zala c3kg and 6kg centuries. In 2019.
  19. Avior
    Avior 1 December 2020 23: 16
    0
    off topic, but don't know where to write
    The car of the Russian embassy in Afghanistan was blown up by an improvised explosive device in Kabul. This was reported by the official representative of the Russian Foreign Ministry Maria Zakharova, RIA Novosti reports .... while the car of the Russian diplomatic mission was on the road near the complex of the Russian embassy in Kabul, an improvised explosive device was detonated. The employees of the Russian overseas institution who were in the vehicle received a slight concussion
  20. Alexander Sosnitsky
    Alexander Sosnitsky 1 December 2020 23: 45
    0
    And that, until he fucks, it is not clear how he can fucking? Then into the forest for the trees.
  21. Comrade Kim
    Comrade Kim 2 December 2020 02: 23
    -1
    Quote: Fungus
    Unofficially

    They also say they experienced the "Death Star"))
  22. Scorpio05
    Scorpio05 2 December 2020 02: 53
    -1
    Quote: Imobile
    Viktor Murakhovsky, the main problem of the troops of Armenia and Nagorno-Karabakh was not the drones of Azerbaijan. Even with complete superiority of the enemy in the air, one can quite successfully defend and even attack. To do this, it is worth looking at how terrorists in Syria have been surviving under the blows of the Russian Aerospace Forces for five years.
    Drones don't equal planes! If Russia had the same drones or better, the terrorists would be doing even worse than the Armenians! Aircraft are only in the air for several hours and have much worse visibility, they were not created for this. Drones control a much larger area and stay in the air for longer. And they are not afraid to lose, you can fly wherever possible will be destroyed.
    All of the above may give the impression that the patrolling weapons, coupled with Bayraktar TB2 attack drones, provided the lion's share of Azerbaijan's victory over Armenia in Nagorno-Karabakh. However, this is not at all true.
    If not, please provide arguments. So far this is the case. The Armenian army was in very good condition for the money that went into its equipment. And judging by the personnel, she acted 1000 times more correctly, according to the Soviet military science, especially looking at the clumsy maneuvers of Azerbaijanis. Don't be drones, Armenia took out Azerbaijan with a score of 10: 0 Everything is changing, and the Armenians were preparing for the war of 90. Azerbaijan spent much more on the army, but much less money was spent on the war.
    And a flying airplane is not equal to a drone. We don't have drones. This is a tactic where the main thing is real-time, communication, electronics and interaction.

    Observing the chronology, I will remind you of just a few operations of the Azerbaijani Armed Forces without the use of drones and everything else, as a vivid example of the operational-combat actions of the Azerbaijan Armed Forces in a modern asymmetric war. This was precisely what the Armenian army and its command were not ready for.
    Karabakh Gauleiter Arayik Aryutyunyan described how the "bravest" Armenian army in the amount of 1500 people. fled from one and a half dozen Azerbaijani special forces, handing over Hadrut to them.
    Source: https://armenianreport.com/ru/pubs/264747/
    Lieutenant General Manvel Yeghiazaryan also said that Zangelan was taken by several pickup trucks with Azerbaijani special forces on them.
    source: https://www.aysor.am/ru/news/
    In Shusha, drones were not used at all. There, the Azerbaijani mountain special forces with portable weapons (often just in a bayonet battle) carried out at once all this vaunted mass called the Armed Forces of Armenia, and advancing from the lowlands along the cliffs and the mountain range at an altitude of 1700 m. On which the heavily fortified Armenian positions were located, bursting on the shoulders of the Armenian military in Shusha. Then, after gaining a foothold there, the Azerbaijani special forces began to destroy the strongholds of the Armenian forces, thereby allowing the rest of the Az.VS to enter the city and complete the defeat of the enemy.
    In addition, a few words about the morale, training and operational-tactical level of the Azerbaijani Armed Forces. Also, by the way, from the mouth of the enemy.
    The son of one of the instigators of the first Karabakh war, the main ideologist of the Armenians Zori Balayan, Hayk Balayan, in an interview with Moskovsky Komsomolets:
    "I was at the Hadrut heights and saw everything myself. And I do not understand how the Azerbaijanis were able to take these heights. But I am not a military specialist. Probably, these Azerbaijanis were simply well prepared for such mountain operations. Because when they took Shusha, our The artillery worked very well on them. But they still broke through. Others took the place of those killed ... "
    The Armenians were not helped by free massive military aid from an ally, incl. and all the OTRKs, electronic warfare systems are cunning, and as many as 500 units of equipment taken as trophies by the Azerbaijani Armed Forces, including and 66 tanks in working order.
    And there are many such examples, including the famous breakthrough of Azerbaijani RDGs through the mountainous and wooded area (without heavy weapons) to Dashalty (Karantag) near Shusha and the seizure of a bridgehead for the subsequent attack on Shusha and taking control of the strategic Goris-Shusha highway from three sides -Khankendi (Stepanakert)
  23. Scorpio05
    Scorpio05 2 December 2020 02: 57
    +1
    Quote: Imobile
    Viktor Murakhovsky, the main problem of the troops of Armenia and Nagorno-Karabakh was not the drones of Azerbaijan. Even with complete superiority of the enemy in the air, one can quite successfully defend and even attack. To do this, it is worth looking at how terrorists in Syria have been surviving under the blows of the Russian Aerospace Forces for five years.
    Drones don't equal planes! If Russia had the same drones or better, the terrorists would be doing even worse than the Armenians! Aircraft are only in the air for several hours and have much worse visibility, they were not created for this. Drones control a much larger area and stay in the air for longer. And they are not afraid to lose, you can fly wherever possible will be destroyed.
    All of the above may give the impression that the patrolling weapons, coupled with Bayraktar TB2 attack drones, provided the lion's share of Azerbaijan's victory over Armenia in Nagorno-Karabakh. However, this is not at all true.
    If not, please provide arguments. So far this is the case. The Armenian army was in very good condition for the money that went into its equipment. And judging by the personnel, she acted 1000 times more correctly, according to the Soviet military science, especially looking at the clumsy maneuvers of Azerbaijanis. Don't be drones, Armenia took out Azerbaijan with a score of 10: 0 Everything is changing, and the Armenians were preparing for the war of 90. Azerbaijan spent much more on the army, but much less money was spent on the war.
    And a flying airplane is not equal to a drone. We don't have drones. This is a tactic where the main thing is real-time, communication, electronics and interaction.

    By the way, a lot of drones (including American ones), javelins and massive strikes of the super-advanced aviation at the disposal of the oil monarchies in an unlimited number (Mirazhi 2000, Rafali, F-16, etc. ., helicopters, including Arachi of various modifications)) to the multibillion-dollar high-tech Arabian armies of the Saudis and Dubai sheikhs and the western PMCs fighting for them, plus (unofficially) various special forces of the Egyptians, Pakistanis, Sudanese and other numerous mercenaries against the Houthis and the ancient Tapikhs T-34.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 2 December 2020 11: 38
      0
      Quote: Scorpio05
      By the way, a lot of drones (including American ones), javelins and massive strikes of the super-advanced aviation at the disposal of the oil monarchies in an unlimited number (Mirazhi 2000, Rafali, F-16, etc. ., helicopters, including Arachi of various modifications)) to the multibillion-dollar high-tech Arabian armies of the Saudis and Dubai sheikhs and the western PMCs fighting for them, plus (unofficially) various special forces of the Egyptians, Pakistanis, Sudanese and other numerous mercenaries against the Houthis and the ancient Tapikhs T-34.

      Probably because they don't help because huthis slippers exist mainly in the form of an information phantom in the Western media - "a bunch of backward religious fanatics trying to overthrow the democratically elected head of state". But in fact, under the guise of the Houthis, the units of the regular army of Yemen are fighting, and with the active support of one state from the other side of the Persian Gulf.
      Here's what the Houthis had from missiles and UAVs for 2019:
  24. Scorpio05
    Scorpio05 2 December 2020 14: 42
    -1
    Quote: Alexey RA
    Quote: Scorpio05
    By the way, a lot of drones (including American ones), javelins and massive strikes of the super-advanced aviation at the disposal of the oil monarchies in an unlimited number (Mirazhi 2000, Rafali, F-16, etc. ., helicopters, including Arachi of various modifications)) to the multibillion-dollar high-tech Arabian armies of the Saudis and Dubai sheikhs and the western PMCs fighting for them, plus (unofficially) various special forces of the Egyptians, Pakistanis, Sudanese and other numerous mercenaries against the Houthis and the ancient Tapikhs T-34.

    Probably because they don't help because huthis slippers exist mainly in the form of an information phantom in the Western media - "a bunch of backward religious fanatics trying to overthrow the democratically elected head of state". But in fact, under the guise of the Houthis, the units of the regular army of Yemen are fighting, and with the active support of one state from the other side of the Persian Gulf.
    Here's what the Houthis had from missiles and UAVs for 2019:

    Actually, the regular army of Yemen is this organization:
    ADEN. The Yemeni army announced the destruction of over a thousand Anasarullah (Houthis) militants during the fighting in September.
    This is stated on the news portal 26sepnews, associated with the Yemeni army.
    “In September, the Yemeni army killed over 1000 Houthis, 215 of whom were field commanders,” the report said. By the way, they still have a formidable force of as many as 30 pieces. T 34 is))
    In fact, the Yemeni army is government armed forces loyal to the President of Yemen, Abd-Rabbu Mansur Hadi, in fact, the head of the Yemeni government, on whose side the coalition of the Persian Gulf countries (Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, etc.) is fighting with the support of the United States and Western PMCs against Houthi rebels (organization "Ansar Allah") supported by Iran ..
    And "one state from the shores of the Persian Gulf," that is, Iran, in terms of its capabilities (financial, military and the ability to legally purchase Western weapons in unlimited quantities) and use the help of Western PMCs, is far from a coalition of the Gulf countries, including: CA + UAE and other Arab countries with Egypt, earlier with them, and Jordan and Pakistan were like.
  25. Threaded screw
    Threaded screw 2 December 2020 15: 58
    0
    Even with complete superiority of the enemy in the air, one can quite successfully defend and even attack.
    No you can not.
  26. Basarev
    Basarev 2 December 2020 18: 00
    0
    Is it possible to make a huge anti-ship drone? And thereby erase the border between the aircraft carrier and the rocket ship.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 3 December 2020 00: 57
      0
      It makes no sense - since there is already a hypersonic anti-ship missile system and soon an anti-ship MRBM will be added to it with a range of destruction of the ship up to 5000 kilometers just against the AUG. There is Uranus with a range of 260 kilometers Caliber with a range of 450 kilometers Onyx M with a range of up to 800 kilometers Zircon with a range of 1500 kilometers will also be a ground-based MRBM with a guided warhead and a system to overcome missile defense and air defense systems.
  27. Svateev
    Svateev 3 December 2020 14: 33
    0
    All of the above can create the impression that the patrolling weapons, coupled with Bayraktar TB2 attack drones, provided the lion's share of Azerbaijan's victory over Armenia in Nagorno-Karabakh. However, this is not at all the case. The morally and technically obsolete Armenian air defense systems "Strela-10", "Osa-AKM" and modifications of the S-300 could still successfully operate on manned aircraft. This, incidentally, was the main reason why combat aircraft and helicopters were practically not used during the war. But against drones of various stripes, all this technique is powerless - for example, the electric motor of a loitering ammunition, due to the lack of an IR signature, is not captured even by MANPADS.

    So, the UAVs did NOT ensure victory because ... the air defense is powerless against them. Interesting logic from the author. We read further:
    The main problem of the troops of Armenia and Nagorno-Karabakh was not Azerbaijan's drones. Even with complete superiority of the enemy in the air, one can quite successfully defend and even attack.

    The author is a machine gun in hand! Where were you together with Murakhovsky, when Azerbaijani UAVs were chasing literally separate groups of soldiers, destroying dugouts, cars and so on?
    To do this, it is worth looking at how terrorists in Syria have been surviving under the blows of the Russian Aerospace Forces for five years already.

    First, they do not survive well. Only with the help of Turkish UAVs, they stopped the sweep of Idlib and survived.
    Secondly, our aviation physically cannot hang over the battlefield around the clock. And UAVs can. So try to fight under a UAV, when from above this waiting step sees you, and you will see your death only 2 seconds before the explosion.
    Victory is always forged by ground troops and the outcome of battles and war in the end depends on their effective work.

    Once again: the author, the machine gun in hand and - forge victory under enemy UAVs!
    There were not enough elementary engineering structures to take cover from air attacks,

    If only I could watch videos on the website of the Ministry of Defense of Azerbaijan! The Armenians had enough of everything, in the open field no one lay on the defensive. But the UAVs found any shelters (multispectral cameras) and hit them: from open trenches of l / s and caponiers of equipment, to blocked slots, dugouts, buildings, and even one reinforced concrete casemate fell under distribution.
    obstacles, rubble and minefields were not arranged. And this is only a small part of the problems of the defenders of Nagorno-Karabakh.

    Again - watch the videos, now Armenian. Where tanks of Azerbaijan burn in a minefield and obstacles according to science.
    All this allowed the Azerbaijani military to feel quite at ease in the operational space and not give up the initiative to the enemy.

    Operational space is, by definition, a place where enemy defenses and troops have already ended. Therefore, everyone is so eager to "break through the defenses and enter the operational space." And according to the author's thoughts, the Armenians should have set up engineering structures "in the operational space", that is, they should have built up the entire territory of NKR with them ?!
    It smells like a graduate of our military academy!
    And loitering ammunition, coupled with shock drones, played only an auxiliary, albeit very effective role here.

    CONCLUSION: The author and Colonel Murakhovsky have seen everything, they know everything. But conclusions are not made further than jagged "truths".
    Yes, the proverb is true: "when Allah wants to punish, he deprives him of reason." Then the person will do everything himself.
    1. Albay
      Albay 11 February 2021 23: 39
      -1
      Svateev welcome! I completely agree with your conclusions. The Armenian army did not have a chance, moreover, it was the Armenian command that made simply suicidal steps, when it threw the last reserves into counterattacks where they were expected, since all advancements were counteracted by reconnaissance drones. Logistics, technical equipment, training of the army was in Armenians are much worse and they were doomed anyway.