Military Review

Etruscan clothing and jewelry

196

A set of gold jewelry from an Etruscan tomb. The beginning of the XNUMXth century BC e. Consists of a magnificent necklace of gold and glass, a pair of earrings with discs of gold and rock crystal, a gold clasp for a dress (brooch) decorated with a sphinx, a pair of simple gold brooches, a gold pin for a dress and five rings. Two rings are engraved with scarabs that rotate on a swivel base, one decorated with embossed satyr heads, and the other two with gold seals. (Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York)


Culture of clothes. Today we will get acquainted with the clothes that were worn on the territory of the Apennine Peninsula in the pre-Roman era, with the clothes of the mysterious Etruscan people. Mysterious, because the people possessed a written language, but it has not been possible to decipher it completely, although about 12 thousand Etruscan inscriptions have come down to us. There have been attempts to translate them using the Cyrillic alphabet. But ... the authors of these translations, as even the alternativeists themselves write, "may have found the key." But the distance from the word "possibly" to a real translation is enormous. But the most important thing is that the monuments left by the Etruscans do not in any way coincide with the Slavic antiquities. But there are a lot of these monuments: these are the frescoes that adorn their tombs, dishes made of black clay and products made of gold and silver, stunning in their beauty and subtlety. In addition to the Vatican museums in Rome, where the bulk of Etruscan antiquities are located, as well as the Louvre, a simply stunning part of them in terms of volume, and practically unknown to either Russian tourists or our historians, is located in local museums of modern Tuscany, in its small towns.


"Tomb of Triclinium", Tarquinia, Tuscany

Painted tombs


Tourists simply do not get there, usually limiting themselves to Florence and Verona, and after visiting Cortona, you can visit the Museum of the Etruscan Academy in the Casali Palace, in Sovana - the abandoned tombs of the Etruscans, in Tarquinia - their museum, as well as world famous tombs that even received their own names : "Hunting and Fishing", "Flower and Lotus", "Lionesses", "Magician", "Triclinium", there are tombs in Norkia too, and Etruscan antiquities can be seen in the museums of Vulci, Saturnia, Chiusi and Papulonia. But today in this article we will not consider the culture of the Etruscans as a whole, as well as three theories of their appearance in Central Italy. It will be enough to know that during the heyday of their civilization they had a confederation of 12 cities, that the heyday of their culture falls on the end of the 351th-XNUMXth centuries. BC e., that the Romans conquered Etruria by XNUMX BC. e., they borrowed a lot from the conquered. Well, now we can already talk about clothes, which we know about primarily from the ceramic sarcophagi that have come down to us and the paintings of ancient Etruscan tombs.


Statue of Mars from Todi. Bronze. IV century BC e. The total height of the statue is 1,69 m. There is a dedicatory inscription on the statue, so we know that a certain Achilos Trutitus ordered it. The figure depicts a warrior dressed in plate armor, made, however, in the characteristic manner of a Greek linen thorax. It is considered a fine example of Etruscan foundry art. (Gregorian Etruscan Museum, Rome)

Clothes for a warm climate


So what was the Etruscan men's clothing like? Very simple - only this can be said: an overhead chiton, akin to the ancient Greek one, and they could throw veils on their shoulders. A loose-fitting semicircular cloak called "tebenna" was also in vogue, falling down in beautiful folds. The fabric of such cloaks was usually bright: green, blue, blue, white with a blue border. A short woolen tunic was worn under the cloak. By the end of the VI century. BC e. short men's shirts made of dense fabric like canvas, which tightly fitted the figure, came into fashion.


Feasting man. "Tomb of the Lionesses", Tarquinia, Tuscany

The tunes of wealthy people were very elegant: rather long, but with short sleeves, sewn from thin transparent fabrics. Colors - saffron, blue, terracotta ... Also, the chiton could be richly embroidered, and its hem was decorated with stripes of colored fabric. The same stripes could be sewn onto bedspreads. Chitons were one-piece and widened downward or had a rather wide frill at the bottom. Like the Greeks, the Etruscan chiton could leave one shoulder open.


Cup offering. "Tomb of the Baron", Tarquinia, Tuscany

The peasant's tunic was straight with sleeves and looked like a modern shirt, which was necessarily belted.

The costume of the Etruscan priest was very beautiful, consisting of a white woolen tunic below the knees and a blue cape, which was decorated with a wide colored stripe. The shoes of the priests had high heels and long pointed socks bent upwards.

That is, in general, it was a costume ... of the Greeks of Asia Minor - a costume of people who lived and live in a warm seaside climate, not knowing cold and frost.

Women had more variety ...


The women of Etruria dressed much more variedly. However, that is why they were women. It is noted that the female costume was very similar to the clothing of women of the Ancient East. So, as underwear, they wore a very long, one-cut shirt with sleeves, which was worn over the head and did not girdle at the same time! A cape was again put on over it, the ends of which were to be fastened on the chest with a beautiful clasp. The end of the cape could be draped over the head.

He also knew a costume that consisted of a bodice with sleeves and a wide skirt (a clear influence of the Cretan-Mycenaean fashion), and sometimes only a skirt, but with a wide belt, and a cape. Wide skirts were only made of patterned fabrics, at the bottom they were decorated with a colored, most often purple, stripe, but the bodice could also be one-color. Complementing such a complex attire was a small sleeveless jacket.


"Young woman". This statue, perhaps the most famous Etruscan figural bronze in the collection of the Metropolitan Museum, was made in one of the main centers of bronze processing, probably in Vulci or Chiusi. The artist was clearly inspired by the archaic Greek crust, votive statues of young women in a typical frontal pose with their right hand extended and left holding their clothes. However, the sculptor was not particularly concerned with the accuracy of the image of the costume. The Greek himation (cloak), for example, is distorted. The folds, so clearly visible from the front, are absent on the back of the statue - this possibly indicates that the artist was looking at a two-dimensional source, such as a relief sculpture or vase, and not at a volumetric sculpture. The pointed shoes are crafted with elaborate lace and floral designs, clearly Etruscan shoes. The left foot of the figure is a modern restoration. End of the XNUMXth century BC e. (Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York)

Girls wore long pleated skirts, and over them they wore straight chitons to the knees and, again, a small veil, covering their heads. There is a fresco of the XNUMXth century. BC e. in one of the tombs, which depicts women performing a ritual dance. They are wearing long, slouchy, multi-colored chitons with a characteristic wide colored border. At the same time, they have colored bedspreads on their heads, also trimmed with a colored stripe along the edge.


Ritual dance. "Tomb of the Lionesses", Tarquinia, Tuscany

Long toe shoes


In Etruscan footwear, Eastern influence is also noticeable. The frescoes of men show sandals made of narrow interlaced straps, low shoes made of soft leather with long pointed toes curved upwards, very similar to those that later became popular in medieval Europe, and boots - in appearance the same as those of the ancient Persians ... And the Etruscans just as richly, in an oriental way, trimmed and decorated it, so that the Romans even called the richly decorated shoes Etruscan. There were also known "Tyrrhenian soles": wooden sandals with tight-fitting red leather, and even with gilding. They were tied up to the knee with purple straps. Such sandals were very popular among the Greeks of Asia Minor.

The headdresses of Etruscan men are similar to those of Assyrian and Persian, and those of women are similar to Egyptian, Phrygian-Median and Indo-Persian. Many Etruscans wore headbands on their heads, similar to those that were common among the Greek Ionians.

There was also a variety in hairstyles: the Etruscans could shave their heads baldly, like the Egyptians, they could cut their hair short, and also curl into small curls or, like the Spartans, wear them loose over the shoulders. But the Etruscans' beards were shaved.

Etruscan clothing and jewelry
Male amulet. Around 460 BC e. (Louvre)

Women usually braided their hair in braids or curled it in lush curls. They pulled long curls down the back, and threw some over the chest. Complex women's hairstyles were also known to them. For example, hair was divided into strands, fluffed, and rolled on both sides of the parting. Moreover, these rollers were also intertwined with each other in different ways, that is, the hairstyle was very complex. Well - women of fashion have been at all times and among all peoples!


Gold earring. 530-480 BC e. (British museum)

Goldsmiths recognized by everyone


But what the Etruscans outdid all the other peoples of the Apennines, and beyond, is in the art of jewelry, which they had developed extremely highly. They knew embossing, engraving and enamel art. They covered items made of cheap metals with thin plates of gold and silver. They made fine jewelry from amber, ivory, knew how to cut precious stones and colored glass.


This earring is one of the most common types of Etruscan jewelry. At the very top, two heads have survived, depicting women in tiny disc earrings inlaid with enamel (originally there was a third). Immediately below, there is a strip covered alternately with lighter and darker blue enamel. The earrings are very complex in composition, but made with the highest skill. VI century BC e. (Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York)

Moreover, jewelry in Etruscan society was accepted to be worn by both men and women. Men adorned themselves with massive gold necklaces, wreaths of gold leaves, and bracelets in the form of notched rings, which were usually worn on the left hand. Women wore necklaces as well as graceful chains with pendants made of stones. Men, too, did not hesitate to wear chains around their necks, but they hung round medallions to them. Rings and signet rings were very popular and decorated with carvings. Tiaras decorated with precious stones and pearls, as well as pins with pommels, with which they pinned their long hair, were a specific female headdress. Earrings looked like rings or circles with pendants of various shapes.


Etruscan sarcophagus III century. BC e. The reclining woman depicted on the lid wears a massive necklace and holds a fan in her right hand. The frieze depicts two pairs of Greeks fighting the Amazons, with the Etruscan death demon Vant standing on the right. Amazonomachy is well known from Greek art, especially since the XNUMXth century, and was often depicted in Etruscan art as well. (Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York)
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  1. Korsar4
    Korsar4 1 December 2020 04: 45
    +12
    The border between the northern and southern countries is being felt. Where long-toed shoes are worn is the south.
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 1 December 2020 04: 57
      +11
      Good morning Sergey!
      Ponte is more expensive than money! You can't survive without pants, in Cilicia, you can't run after a deer in a toga and tunic.
      Vyacheslav Olegovich, thanks for the reading under coffee!
      Good day to all
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 1 December 2020 05: 30
        +10
        Good morning Vladislav!
        In addition, posture is also required.
        And we have. I thought about it - when the prototypes of quilted jackets appeared.
        And how does the percentage of asphalt roads affect the boots to sneaker ratio?

        At least get into the history of the boot.
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 1 December 2020 06: 15
          +8
          Precisely, we climbed into the boot itself, now it's time to get into its history.
          Hi Sergey, haven't you gone to bed?
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 1 December 2020 06: 19
            +7
            Hi Constantine!

            I took my dream. I have an emergency until December 17th. So it's always good to be distracted.
        2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 1 December 2020 11: 53
          +6
          I'm not an expert on quilted jackets! I can assume that the quilted jacket influenced her appearance. The latter is associated with the development of cotton manufacture in Central Asia. During the Great Patriotic War, he was an indispensable companion of the greatcoat. But the overcoat itself had already existed in the army for a century and a half, at least at that time.
          I tried on it a couple of times out of curiosity. The thing is gorgeous, but you can't put it on yourself, you can't go to the garden and a headphone. The tunic under the toga is still rubbing. Although probably a matter of habit.
    2. ee2100
      ee2100 1 December 2020 05: 34
      +9
      "The border between northern and southern countries is being felt. Where long-toed shoes are worn, there is the south." (C)
      I do not quite agree with your statement. Yes, walking in the snow in long-toed shoes is not comfortable, but take and put on a footcloth and you will get a prototype of a long-toed shoe. That and in those distant times, they took the skin (skin), rolled it around the foot, sewn it up, fastened it and got shoes with a long nose. The easiest way to "put on shoes"
      I do not think that the peoples living to the north in a harsher climate had something different.
      Shoes are an important item of clothing.
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 1 December 2020 05: 55
        +12
        I would like to take a closer look: moccasins are quite functional. No unnecessary protrusions.

        Our felt boots with galoshes - too. And what else will you go to the forest at minus 35?
        I didn't really think about the shoes of the peoples of the North.

        Only, for sure, different classes have different shoes.
        1. kalibr
          1 December 2020 06: 05
          +11
          Caligi among the Romans is an example of functionality. Cut out from 2 pieces of leather. One is thick. The other is thin. The thin one was cut according to the master model - that's all. A thick sole was lined with nails with hats.
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 1 December 2020 06: 16
            +8
            I was just thinking about zoning by what they wore: where are sandals, where are sandals. The most interesting thing is the transition zone.

            And, of course, the seasonality: "Presentation - a gypsy is selling a fur coat."
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. ee2100
              ee2100 1 December 2020 08: 40
              +6
              One of the commentators on this site claimed that at the Battle of the Ice the Russians were in felt boots, and during the Battle of Kulikovo they were in bast shoes.
              There is information on the Internet about sandals and felt boots in Russia. These are not such old attributes.
            3. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 1 December 2020 11: 57
              +4
              Bast shoes were sometimes woven from leather straps. The inertia of thinking or the lack of linden as a material, I don't know - I didn't think about it.
        2. Lynx2000
          Lynx2000 1 December 2020 08: 44
          +7
          Quote: Korsar4
          I would like to take a closer look: moccasins are quite functional. No unnecessary protrusions.
          Our felt boots with galoshes - too. And what else will you go to the forest at minus 35?
          I didn't really think about the shoes of the peoples of the North.

          Can be worn in high fur boots, torbasses or ichigas.

          Quote: Korsar4

          Only, for sure, different classes have different shoes.

          Of course, after jumping on the winter steppe in the same fur ichigas, you can force in a yurt in smart slippers with long socks for eye pleasure and self-expression.
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 1 December 2020 15: 24
            +4
            The names are familiar. But in the winter time in those parts did not happen.
            Here's how the warming and the morning go together: the brains don't turn on.
            1. Lynx2000
              Lynx2000 1 December 2020 22: 31
              +2
              There are certainly many winter trekking shoes now. For winter fishing and snowmobiling, I wear warm Baffins up to my knees.
              There are ichigi. I can't find normal high fur boots. Valenki quickly wipe at the folds-folds at the instep, the rubber sole is heavy and not reliable ...
        3. Mihaylov
          Mihaylov 1 December 2020 10: 59
          +8
          Quote: Korsar4
          Only still, for sure, different classes - and different shoes

          Good afternoon, here is a very rare case when you can get acquainted with real samples of shoes from the X-XIV centuries, thanks to the unique properties of the Novgorod soil, organic materials are preserved in it:

          Photo from the Novgorod museum, pistons (moccasins) and boots are clearly visible.
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 1 December 2020 15: 18
            +4
            Thanks. Such corners of museums are very interesting.
    3. Errr
      Errr 1 December 2020 08: 54
      +5
      Quote: Korsar4
      The border between the northern and southern countries is being felt. Where long-toed shoes are worn is the south.
      Well, it's just trouble with these Lapps. They don't fit into such a beautiful theory. laughing Although, of course, there is also Grumant to the north, but the aboriginal population on it is clearly not dense. smile
      1. vladcub
        vladcub 1 December 2020 14: 52
        +3
        Kamrad Err, looked at the top picture and remembered the devil: how was he painted? And there was also an advertisement, it seems, of Royal alcohol: "this is her hand, this is my hand, this is her back, my back and such a tail, just the same
        1. Errr
          Errr 1 December 2020 21: 18
          +1
          If you want to live, you will not pack so well. laughing
          About “Royal” I found a Khazan's smile from 1994. Liked. More than a quarter of a century has passed, but it is actual. Thank you for inadvertently pointing to an interesting object. smile hi If you wish, you can see it at
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_uiZx5u46M
      2. Korsar4
        Korsar4 1 December 2020 15: 17
        +4
        Nice photos.
        Eh, it is necessary to study the issue everywhere. And then put forward theories.
        1. Errr
          Errr 1 December 2020 19: 53
          +1
          That's for sure. Otherwise, theories are such theories ... laughing drinks
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 1 December 2020 20: 14
            +3
            In the joke mode, you can also dream up. It is in a forest area that the long toes of shoes can cling to trees. And the tundra is treeless.
            1. Errr
              Errr 1 December 2020 21: 06
              +2
              AND! To joke - to joke! From the long bent up toes of the Yar boots and the shortened version of the latter, the canga skis do not jump off. laughing But seriously, there is only tundra in the north of Lapland. There is not so much of it, only in places. Basically there is a forest, basically - coniferous (pine-spruce). Very beautiful places. It was not for nothing that Santa Claus was assigned to the settlement there, oh, not without reason. smile
              1. Korsar4
                Korsar4 1 December 2020 21: 21
                +3
                Didn't get to those parts. Nicely told. Northern taiga is a separate world.
                1. Errr
                  Errr 1 December 2020 21: 32
                  +2
                  And I never got there. I study everything from photos, videos, and descriptions of eyewitnesses. smile
  2. pmkemcity
    pmkemcity 1 December 2020 06: 24
    -1
    Etruscans are Russians! drinks In my opinion, Momzen also met ... It's useless to argue with the classics.
    1. kalibr
      1 December 2020 06: 29
      +7
      This, Pavel, met at Zadornov! And it is useless to argue with him. He slept in the Lord!
      1. vladcub
        vladcub 2 December 2020 08: 14
        +1
        VO, in my opinion they said: "rested in the Bose."
        1. kalibr
          2 December 2020 08: 41
          +1
          Quote: vladcub
          VO, in my opinion they said: "rested in the Bose."

          There are different expressions ...
          1. vladcub
            vladcub 2 December 2020 12: 55
            +1
            Perhaps: "rested in the bose" is more common? I met him more often in literature
            1. kalibr
              2 December 2020 19: 41
              +1
              More, I agree. That is why I used mine, the rarer one. I don't like being "like everyone else" even in small things.
              1. vladcub
                vladcub 2 December 2020 20: 02
                0
                V.O., Bravo
    2. Stirbjorn
      Stirbjorn 1 December 2020 07: 54
      +7
      Quote: pmkemcity
      Etruscans are Russians!

      And the Cherusci? Also Russians, only with the letter "x" ?! What did Momzen write about them? lol
      1. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 1 December 2020 09: 27
        +8
        And the Cherusci? Also Russians, only with the letter "x" ?! What did Momzen write about them?

        Who is Momzen? wink If it's Taylor Momsen, she's forgiven for writing that! Joke! drinks
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 1 December 2020 16: 45
          +3
          Quote: Pan Kohanku
          And the Cherusci? Also Russians, only with the letter "x" ?! What did Momzen write about them?

          Who is Momzen? wink If it's Taylor Momsen, she's forgiven for writing that! Joke! drinks

          Vamp blond. This is Fomina! 700 tanks per night in xx
          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 1 December 2020 16: 54
            +1
            700 tanks per night in xx

            Albert, she gets more at concerts laughing although the girl chose a scandalous image, you can't say anything ... what
      2. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master 1 December 2020 11: 11
        +8
        Quote: Stirbjorn
        And the Cherusci?

        Two options are either "bad Russians" or just a tribe with relatively thin (narrow) reproductive organs. I don't see any other options.
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 1 December 2020 12: 00
          +6
          What are we going to do with the Prussians !!!
          1. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 1 December 2020 12: 20
            +6
            Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
            What are we going to do with the Prussians

            With their slippers, red bastards! And dust! laughing
            1. vladcub
              vladcub 1 December 2020 15: 02
              +5
              Misha, hello. Do you have too much time to chase cockroaches? I buy a gel: "Brownie" (?) And the baseboards are processed with it, and then, according to fig.
              True, now there is a difficulty: at the height of the plinth, Samsonov and Kharluzhny live. Fig knows what they eat?
              1. Trilobite Master
                Trilobite Master 1 December 2020 15: 11
                +5
                Hello, Glory.
                Quote: vladcub
                Fig knows what they eat?

                By metabolic products, you can also determine the diet. They don't eat anything good.
                1. vladcub
                  vladcub 1 December 2020 19: 59
                  +2
                  "You understand," (c) I'm Orthodox and I'm afraid to take a sin on my soul. Suddenly, they eat along with cockroaches and tavo ...? Will this be a sin?
          2. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 1 December 2020 13: 30
            +5
            What are we going to do with the Prussians !!!

            "Powder is not gunpowder, beech is not a cannon, a scythe is not a cleaver, and I am not a German, but a natural hare!" Attributed to A.S. Suvorov. His papa, Vasily Ivanovich, offered to chop the Prussians - when the Holstein army of Peter III was "taken prisoner". laughing
  3. Deniska999
    Deniska999 1 December 2020 06: 35
    +11
    Vyacheslav, you entered the territory of Samsonov :)
    1. kalibr
      1 December 2020 06: 47
      +10
      Today, Deniska, we have globalization ...
      1. Deniska999
        Deniska999 1 December 2020 15: 41
        0
        But this is not at all grudging ... :(
  4. Lech from Android.
    Lech from Android. 1 December 2020 06: 56
    +5
    The decorations are of course classy ... the hand of the master is visible ... the statues and figurines are also visible the hand of the master-artist ... all the proportions are kept perfectly ... why did the Etruscans disappear? Where did this talented people run into the pit of history?
    Thank you Vyacheslav for a fascinating story. hi
    1. kalibr
      1 December 2020 07: 39
      +8
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      Where did this talented people run into the pitfall of history?

      There will be more about that ...
    2. Catfish
      Catfish 1 December 2020 08: 37
      +5
      ... the people ran into the pitfall of history

      Poetry and romance ... smile What if it was a rusty horned fool that had fallen off the minerep?
      Olegych will tell you. drinks
  5. svp67
    svp67 1 December 2020 07: 03
    +8
    Thank you, the topic is really very interesting.
    And the Etruscans were also masters of FILLING products ... even tangerines)))
    1. Van 16
      Van 16 1 December 2020 07: 53
      +6
      I remembered not quite the topic, in our village they salted watermelons, both in jars (in pieces) and in barrels (whole). The taste was very peculiar, but interesting))
      1. depressant
        depressant 1 December 2020 14: 41
        +5
        The Etruscans ate twice a day.
        Posidonius indignantly wrote about the effeminacy of the Etruscan elite:
        "The Etruscans are ordered twice a day to set luxurious tables, prepare bedspreads embroidered with flowers, serve many silver vessels, and many slaves serve them."
        The effeminacy, which meant idle pastime, irritated the stern Greek stoic. None of the Etruscan elite particularly strained - the soils were extremely fertile, the climate was mild, Mediterranean.
        Crowds of servants prepared food for the Etruscans to music. Cooking was described as a bustle in the kitchen of a large modern international hotel: chef, chef, steward. Some make sauces from spices, others make meat, others bake bread in the form of flat cakes, two pieces per eater.
        It looks like not much has changed in large kitchens since then. Only the dishes and ovens have become more modern.
  6. Operator
    Operator 1 December 2020 08: 01
    +5
    What the hell is the notorious "Etruscan riddle"?

    The Romans hundreds of times in various official documents and historical descriptions directly recognized themselves as the successors of the Etruscan cause, unequivocally speaking about the homeland of the latter - Troy and their migration to the Apennine Peninsula after the defeat by the Greeks. Moreover, after each battle won against the Greeks, the Romans installed a standard stone slab at the battle site with the text "This is for you for Troy."

    After migrating to the Apennines, the Trojans for several hundred years were neighbors of a small tribe of Latins who lived in the swamps in the valley of the Tiber River. It was the Etruscans who founded Rome as another of their city-states, led by the Etruscan kings, who ruled Rome until the coup d'état by the Latins, who made up the majority of the population of this border city.

    Ethnically, the Etruscans were the aborigines of Asia Minor, assimilated by the Black Sea Aryans in the middle of the second millennium BC. The Etruscan language is a hybrid of the North Semitic language, akin to Chechen-Ingush, and Aryan Sanskrit, the basis of all Slavic languages. This is where Etruscan, and then Latin, so many coincidences with the modern Russian language - hundreds of words, word formation rules, including plural nouns, etc.

    Therefore, numerous domestic and foreign linguists so easily interpret Etruscan texts in terms of the rules and vocabulary of the Russian language.

    PS The phonetic coincidence of the words "Russians" (from the name of the river Rusa - the present Neman) and "Etruscans" (from the name of the Apennine area Etruria, where migrants from Troy settled) is accidental.
    1. Bar1
      Bar1 1 December 2020 09: 05
      0
      Quote: Operator
      PS The phonetic coincidence of the words "Russians" (from the name of the river Rusa - the present Neman) and "Etruscans" (from the name of the Apennine area Etruria, where migrants from Troy settled) is accidental.

      but the fact that
      -Rhone is the Rosna river in France
      -the upper reaches of the Rhine-river Rusa
      -Perugia -Perusa, city in Italy
      -Lil - in the past Roussel
      -Brussels is a city in Belgium
      -Rossellon-Province of France
      and the fact that Italy is crammed with Rosso's toponyms is also "accidental"?



      Quote: Operator
      The Etruscan language is a hybrid of the North Semitic language, akin to Chechen-Ingush, and Aryan Sanskrit, the basis of all Slavic languages.

      what kind of stupidity, how can this be? And the Aryan and Ingush, can you also put the Chinese here for loyalty?
      1. Moskovit
        Moskovit 1 December 2020 09: 28
        +1
        As Wikipedia tells us: Etruscan is an agglutinating language with a strong tendency towards inflection. laughing
        I remember when we were driving through Italy, the guide told us - look to the left, there is an Etruscan city on the mountain! Nobody can decipher their language, perhaps they are descendants of the Russians!
        This is all we have heard about the Etruscans in Italy)).
        1. kalibr
          1 December 2020 09: 39
          +3
          Quote: Moskovit
          That's all we heard about the Etruscans in Italy))

          Some strange descendants. They lost their pants, the clothes were different, the funeral rites changed beyond recognition for some reason, although this is the most conservative part of culture, art, too ... but "relatives".
          1. Bar1
            Bar1 1 December 2020 10: 26
            -2
            Quote: kalibr
            Quote: Moskovit
            That's all we heard about the Etruscans in Italy))

            Some strange descendants. They lost their pants, the clothes were different, the funeral rites changed beyond recognition for some reason, although this is the most conservative part of culture, art, too ... but "relatives".

            did not wear pants and it was still in the 17th century, and they lived, for example in Venice. Therefore, in "ancient" Pompeii, all the frescoes of images are also without pants. The guy looks like a typical Cossack, not shaved bald, like a true Caucasian, but with with a beard, in a Cossack cap, but in a skirt, with a gun and a first / six-pin / mace in his belt.

        2. Bar1
          Bar1 1 December 2020 10: 17
          -1
          Quote: Moskovit
          Nobody can decipher their language, perhaps they are descendants of the Russians!

          The most disgusting thing in this "history" is that Etruscan has long been deciphered and is readable to itself in Russian and Slavonic, and it was deciphered back in the 19th century: Chertkov, Volansky.
          1. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 1 December 2020 13: 17
            +6
            By the way, I also learned to translate Etruscan inscriptions long ago. More than two years ago!
            Here, take a look!

            This is, in fact, the inscription itself.
            Below is a quote from my comment on October 17, 2018.
            https://topwar.ru/148001-jetruski-v-pogrebenijah.html
            So we have the source text - a certain set of characters, some of them resemble the letters of the modern Russian alphabet. The first thing we do is identify these characters and these letters. It turns out nonsense, but it does not matter, the work is just beginning. The remaining characters, modern Russian letters are not similar, we arbitrarily identify with other letters. Unnecessary we will lower, we will change something a little, we do not put spaces yet. Why exactly? But look at what happened, the main thing is the result. And what happened? Oh, it came out a coherent, well, almost coherent text.
            rekvesbogvyshvimaimiimimeneniyaimeniezhepetsiedomidometsy spleenimenzmenatatzizindalechimdodoluyumoyuyutoytsyververoverosokoprosykoymenemenyarodenesideseideyyydorimyymleyypoymeypoymeszovyyporenoyporozhi goroshi
            Incomprehensible content?
            It does not matter, we will explain, everything is simple here, the main thing is to set the gaps correctly. Correctly:
            Reski weight god vy vai madima ezmen jurayu siyi opetskom ode and dets esle pei emenmen e katezinda we treat before doulezm eat otsii likeli with what tsar clan ideas you have lost great ways you can
            Now it is clear? Not? I translate.
            Ries weight god above - said god above.
            Vai Mai Dima Ezmen Jura - you are my Dima, Yezmen and Yura
            this is the same with food and dec - now you will receive "opets" and "dec"
            esle drink emenmene - if you plump without drying
            We treat Kate Zinda - go to Kate, she will cure you
            before they die, they will turn into animals (hedgehogs)
            believe probably your eyes
            What is the reason for the king to bring the ideas to the sweet? less than the king of Rhodes to his narcotic delirium
            im great omleyty floodplain - I command you to make yourself an omelet
            forgot it - and don't forget about it
            Oh, the roads are good - well, I find it difficult to translate. One thing I can say for sure is not about Russia.

            Do you want to translate something else? laughing
            1. depressant
              depressant 1 December 2020 14: 58
              +3
              Misha, the astronomer scientist played by Nicolas Cage used the same approach in the film "The Sign". And he did it! Dates and coordinates of disasters. I have no reason not to trust you. On the contrary, it turns out very smoothly. Taking into account the Phaistos disc.
              1. Trilobite Master
                Trilobite Master 1 December 2020 15: 06
                +6
                Quote: depressant
                the same approach

                laughing
                With this "approach", you can "prove" anything by turning science into a Zadornov show.
                Commercially, this is certainly more profitable, of course, but ... I personally understand the phrase "I have a conscience" in its original sense, namely, "I have a conscience", in contrast to the way it is used by some authors , like Fomenko and others - "I have a conscience, I had and will have." smile
            2. Mihaylov
              Mihaylov 1 December 2020 15: 08
              +2
              Quote: Trilobite Master
              Do you want to translate something else?

              We want: Phaistos disc hi
              1. Trilobite Master
                Trilobite Master 1 December 2020 15: 14
                +6
                So that I do not waste time on searches - the disc in the studio! Let's decipher in the best possible way. How do you like it - in the style of "Great Tartary" or "Scythian-Siberian-Rus"?
                What kind of perversion do you prefer at this time of day? laughing
                1. Mihaylov
                  Mihaylov 1 December 2020 15: 21
                  +3
                  Quote: Trilobite Master
                  So that I do not waste time on searches - the disc in the studio!

                  Please:

                  But I must warn you that you will be the 128 enthusiast who deciphered it in the last year! wassat
                  1. Trilobite Master
                    Trilobite Master 1 December 2020 16: 42
                    +2
                    You have data for November 25th. Already 131st ... laughing
                    Now, I'll think a little ... smile
                  2. Trilobite Master
                    Trilobite Master 1 December 2020 19: 43
                    +2
                    Well, it's done, it's business.
                    So, the solution to this disc lies in the fact that this is a secret message in Russian, apparently none of the researchers have guessed before. In fact - an analogue of a postcard, congratulations on some kind of holiday, roofing felts with an important event.
                    As soon as I guessed about it, everything fell into place and all other difficulties vanished as if by hand. Further - only technical work, the mlpdenet will cope with this.
                    This means that the point is that each symbol in this message corresponds to a Russian letter. I counted what symbols are used most often in this message and compared them with Russian letters - as easy as shelling pears! And that's what I got. (I'm sorry, I haven't translated it to the end, but now anyone can do it. I've only translated the first few lines)
                    So, initially we have the following text:
                    OakNaPassueSeoSupkieAitsioahNemvoAuropeoAntivating
                    Everything is already clear to a specialist, but for those who are still only reaching for knowledge and studying research work, I will break the text as it would be written now, with spaces and punctuation marks.
                    Oh, Prince Wesse!
                    Oh, you stupid aichi!
                    Oh, hnamv! Oh, uvrope!
                    Oa ntryusch your oilk!
                    Well, has it become clear now?
                    Oa - this is, of course, praise, apparently the forerunner of our "hurray"
                    Knyapasobviously a prince, princes. Now we know how our ancestors called their rulers in those early years.
                    Wesse - of course "everything". It turns out "Hurray to all the princes"
                    Stupid aici, I think it makes no sense to disassemble. Let's give at least something to our linguists, whose work I have already done 90%. I believe these are "glorious deeds."
                    Hnamv - without a doubt, this is the ancient Russian name for bread. Hnamv - hnemb - hlamb - bread. Obvious phonetic transition. The word "bread" in this case is used in the meaning of "wealth", "prosperous".
                    Uvropeof course Europe. Probably, this congratulation was sent precisely in connection with the final conquest of Europe by our ancestors, the annexation of new lands.
                    Ntryusch oilk your - here only the last word is unambiguously interpreted - yours. This is not "yours" as one might think. In the Old Russian language, the word "thy" meant "creator. However, note that if" oilk "is read on the contrary, we get" clio ", and this, as you know, is the name of the muse of history. There is every reason to believe that the author of the message in such a veiled form congratulated his addressee on entering history.
                    So, an approximate translation of the first part of the text will be as follows:
                    Hurray all the princes!
                    Hurray for their glorious deeds!
                    Hurray for wealth! Hurray for new lands!
                    Hurray for the (cunning?) Story makers!

                    The word "ntryush" I cannot interpret unambiguously, therefore, I marked it with a question. My scientific conscientiousness and clean reputation do not allow me to claim as proven what has not yet been verified and confirmed. Of course, most likely, and even without a doubt, I am right, but a true scientist will never voice unverified hypotheses without appropriate reservations.
                    laughing wassat
                    1. Mihaylov
                      Mihaylov 1 December 2020 19: 59
                      0
                      Quote: Trilobite Master
                      Hurray all the princes!
                      Hurray for their glorious deeds!
                      Hurray for wealth! Hurray for new lands!
                      Hurray for the (cunning?) Story makers!

                      And about the brothers Slavyan, Ariya And Skif there is nothing? good
                      Christopher Robin read the message out loud.
                      - Oh, so all these "Py" were Piglets? And I thought it was Pooh.
                      hi
                      1. Trilobite Master
                        Trilobite Master 1 December 2020 20: 02
                        +1
                        Then, probably, there is ... I haven't completely translated ... But a start has been made, this is the main thing.
            3. Bar1
              Bar1 2 December 2020 14: 17
              +2
              Quote: Trilobite Master
              Do you want to translate something else?


              don't need these songs from Plyuk, you have no hearing.
              Here is the transcript from Etruscan.


              https://rurik-l.livejournal.com/3391178.html
              1. Trilobite Master
                Trilobite Master 2 December 2020 15: 45
                +2
                That's right, that's how I translate. Why are my translations worse than this? laughing
                Less silly frames, more imagination - and more! The only difference between me and the author of this "translation" is that I do it unselfishly, for a laugh. Here the author did not even bother with the framework of the correspondence of a certain symbol to some sound or letter of the Russian alphabet. The same sounds correspond to completely different symbols or groups of symbols - this can be seen immediately, even at the most superficial glance.
                Exactly the same "translation" can be done on the basis of any language, including Chinese, and I'm sure such "translations" exist, it's just too lazy to search.
                You know, I, perhaps, will start another account on the site and will periodically publish my inventions from it within the framework of modern chronology or other pseudo-historical squalor. I am sure that an opus similar to those that I published in this thread, if written on behalf of some "Tartarian", will cause you just violent delight and desire to immediately fraternize with its author. laughing
                1. Korsar4
                  Korsar4 2 December 2020 19: 26
                  +1
                  And you can also slowly create a language.
                  Start with a Russian-made dictionary.

                  And start using it. And after them, the rules will immediately come up. The main thing is to use so as not to forget.
        3. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 1 December 2020 11: 17
          +6
          Quote: Moskovit
          the guide told us - look to the left, there is an Etruscan city on the mountain! Nobody can decipher their language, perhaps they are descendants of the Russians!

          And who, excuse me, was the guide? smile
          I'm curious, really ... A statement from the series "monkeys descended from blacks" ... laughing Apparently, the person was just joking ...
          1. kalibr
            1 December 2020 11: 43
            +5
            I was traveling in a bus across Europe, I don't remember when the guide also said something about the knights ... went, introduced himself, and then talked for more than an hour for her. And then one woman says to me: You opened my eyes, I thought they did it in my pants !!! This guide told us about this on my last trip! How's that?
            1. Trilobite Master
              Trilobite Master 1 December 2020 12: 12
              +7
              Quote: kalibr
              How's that?

              There are different guides, I agree ... I, however, are somehow lucky usually - rarely come across completely ... inadequate. The last time we walked in Novgorod, we joined the excursion, listened ... I was with my wife and son. On the bridge over the Volkhov she finished the excursion, like, "what will be the questions." I asked a question. smile We with her about the "Sigtuna Gate" then argued for half an hour, but in general we agreed that the gate was not really from Sigtuna ... smile We agreed that she invited me to the excavation site to see how it was happening ... But I never found the time. sad
              1. Pane Kohanku
                Pane Kohanku 1 December 2020 13: 54
                +2
                We with her about the "Sigtuna Gate" then argued for half an hour, but in general we agreed that the gate was not really from Sigtuna ...

                Mikhail, I wanted to ask you outside the gates - is there a link to serious historians that they are not from Sigtuna? Because so far everything that I have seen speaks for Sigtuna ... As if, for the first time I heard a different version from you! hi
                1. Trilobite Master
                  Trilobite Master 1 December 2020 14: 30
                  +2
                  Quote: Pane Kohanku
                  is there a reference to serious historians

                  The first thing I remembered:
                  https://www.aroundspb.ru/history/sigtuna/sigtuna.php#_Toc37313950
                  There was something else, some kind of work directly related to the gate, with the analysis of images, like they are the earliest - the XIII century, but now I can't remember.
                2. Trilobite Master
                  Trilobite Master 1 December 2020 14: 56
                  +2
                  Now I looked, I did not find it.
                  But there is generally a lot of literature on this subject. They argue. smile
                  But I still think that this gate is not from Sigtuna - too few "evidence" and too many conjectures. And the very fact of the participation of the Russians in the campaign against Sigtuna is doubtful. request
                  1. depressant
                    depressant 1 December 2020 15: 32
                    +2
                    According to the testimony of the Swedish priest Martin Ashaney, a famous collector of antiques, the legend of the Sigtun Gate has existed in Sweden since ancient times, more precisely, since the 12th century.
                    It is believed that the famous "Gates of Sigtuna" is nothing more than the city gates of this settlement, which somehow came to the Russians in an incomprehensible way. Trade connections were!
                    At one time, the Swedes were so concerned about the legend because of the Latin inscriptions found on the gates that the king Gustav II Adolphus notified, ordered a certain Jacob De la Gardie to deliver them to Sweden. But he, realizing the consequences of insulting the main shrine of Novgorodians and not being completely sure of the Swedish origin of the gate, did not dare to carry out this order of the king.
                    This is how historians still argue)))
                    1. Trilobite Master
                      Trilobite Master 1 December 2020 16: 50
                      +2
                      Quote: depressant
                      King Gustav II Adolphus ordered a certain Jacob De la Gardie to deliver them to Sweden

                      There is such a thing ...
                      It is precisely established that the gate was made in the 1150s. in Magdeburg by order of the Archbishop of Plock. The gate is not city, but church - for the local cathedral. How they got to Novgorod is unknown. But there is no information that they could have been in Sigtuna either.
                      It would be nice to write an article on these gates - there is enough material, the topic is not worn out, but, I think, no one will undertake, which is a pity. I would love to discuss it, there are many interesting nuances, one image of a Russian master is worth something ...
                    2. ee2100
                      ee2100 1 December 2020 21: 39
                      +2
                      "to a certain Jacob De la Gardie" (c) Jacob De la Gardie is a famous Swedish commander, field marshal. He distinguished himself especially during the "Time of Troubles" in Russia. Son of Pontus De la Gardie of France, and then after being captured by the Swedes and by the Swedish military leader, who distinguished himself during the Livonian War. Ridiculous death - drowned in the river Narova celebrating another victory over the Russian troops. He was buried in Tallinn in the Dome Cathedral. There is a beautiful epitaph at the place of his burial.
                      Having seized Novgorod, Jacob De la Gardie could actually take the Sigtun Gate to Sweden.
                      1. depressant
                        depressant 1 December 2020 22: 35
                        +1
                        This means not only a commander, but also an intelligent diplomat. That's why he acted wisely. There were people ...
                      2. ee2100
                        ee2100 1 December 2020 23: 04
                        +1
                        His father was considered to be (probably) a skilled diplomat. Very colorful personalities.
            2. ee2100
              ee2100 1 December 2020 15: 42
              +6
              It is not so easy to get to Koporye only with a guided tour. The tour guide is a middle-aged lady. "Alexander Nevsky came here, drove the knights out of the fortress and drove them to Lake Peipsi, where he caught up and destroyed" And one more pearl, also from there. "Poles were worse than fascists"
    2. kalibr
      1 December 2020 09: 43
      +6
      Rosso means red in Italian, so the abundance of this word in place names is not surprising. But how does this relate to our language? No way! In Chinese, there are many words in xy and so on, but this does not mean that all Chinese speak Russian.
      1. Bar1
        Bar1 1 December 2020 10: 12
        -1
        Quote: kalibr
        Rosso means red in Italian, so the abundance of this word in place names is not surprising. But how does this relate to our language? No way! In Chinese, there are many words in xy and so on, but this does not mean that all Chinese speak Russian.

        yes you can accept it, but then red is beautiful in Russian reading again.
        1. kalibr
          1 December 2020 10: 54
          +1
          The most important thing in the culture of any nation is the funeral rite. This is the most durable thing that comes from the depths of centuries. There is not the slightest similarity in the funeral rites of the Slavs and Etruscans. There is not the slightest similarity in clothing, as well as in characteristic female jewelry. This is all so elementary that it is somehow even embarrassing to explain it to adults.
          1. Bar1
            Bar1 1 December 2020 10: 59
            -1
            Quote: kalibr
            The most important thing in the culture of any nation is the funeral rite.

            Of course not.
            The most important thing in culture is language. A few Etruscan inscriptions are read in Russian. And then there are different rituals, so there is a reason, and this reason is Christianity. Since the 17th century, Christianity has greatly changed both the culture and the entire ritual of the Slavic people. For example, the names: There are almost no Russian names left by the Russian people, almost all are Greek.
            1. kalibr
              1 December 2020 11: 09
              +3
              Quote: Bar1
              Few Etruscan inscriptions

              There are 12 thousand of them!
              1. Bar1
                Bar1 1 December 2020 11: 19
                -1
                Quote: kalibr
                There are 12 thousand of them!

                As far as I know, there are no Etruscan manuscripts, there are only short inscriptions on frescoes, on mirrors, etc. And, there is some kind of manuscript with a mummy, but it doesn't matter. Volansky read / recognized / Etruscan inscriptions using Slavic languages. They have forgotten this and continue to repeat like parrots: "Etruscan is not ligature"?
                1. kalibr
                  1 December 2020 11: 38
                  +1
                  Quote: Bar1
                  Volansky read / recognized / Etruscan inscriptions with the help of Slavic languages. Why have they forgotten about this and continue to repeat like parrots: "Etruscan is not ligature"?

                  Nobody forgot about it. Everything is there on the Internet. Only there ... it is written that his work "showed the possibility of such a reading." She showed it, it doesn’t mean she allowed everything to be read ... I know this Roman phrase, but it is out of place. Nobody is repeating it now. It was the year of the Etruscans, when UNESCO allocated considerable funds to Italy for the arrangement of its museums and the study of finds in them. Conferences were also held and articles were written on them, both in Russian, and in Italian and in English. But all this, of course, passed you by. In Italy, of course, you also have not been and the tombs of the Etruscans have not visited. And this immediately cures from stupid "zadornovschina".
            2. kalibr
              1 December 2020 11: 40
              +1
              I have a Slavic name - Vyacheslav, and we have a lot of "glories"!
            3. Hantengri
              Hantengri 1 December 2020 19: 57
              +1
              Quote: Bar1
              Christianity since the 17th century has greatly changed both the culture and the entire ritualism of the Slavic people.

              Pavel, as far as I understand, we are talking about the pre-Christian funeral rites of the Slavs. And similar graves have been excavated - dofig and a little more. And all of them never look like Etruscan burials.
          2. pmkemcity
            pmkemcity 1 December 2020 14: 22
            0
            Quote: kalibr
            There is not the slightest similarity in the funeral rites of the Slavs and Etruscans.

            Are you saying that the Etruscans have already been buried, but the Russians are not yet? Do we know a lot about the funeral rites of Russians before Christianization?
            1. kalibr
              1 December 2020 16: 09
              +1
              Quote: pmkemcity
              Do we know a lot about the funeral rites of Russians before Christianization?

              A lot, Pavel! Because the graves and what is preserved in them ...
              1. pmkemcity
                pmkemcity 1 December 2020 17: 02
                +1
                Quote: kalibr
                Do we know a lot about the funeral rites of Russians before Christianization?

                A lot, Pavel! Because the graves and what is preserved in them ...

                It is a pity that rituals, graves, and what is preserved in them do not reach the "general public". As they say - silent, grave! We know more about any crocodile ostriches than about hares and wild boars.
        2. kalibr
          1 December 2020 10: 54
          +1
          In Chinese, there are many words in xy and so on, but this does not mean that all Chinese speak Russian.
      2. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 1 December 2020 10: 31
        +6
        Rosso in Italian is red

        I remember "Porco Rosso" by Miyazaki - "Red Baron Pig ".
        soldier
      3. pmkemcity
        pmkemcity 1 December 2020 14: 26
        -1
        Quote: kalibr
        Rosso means red in Italian, so the abundance of this word in place names is not surprising. But how does this relate to our language?

        Everyone knows that Russians prefer red! drinks
        1. kalibr
          1 December 2020 16: 11
          0
          Everyone knows that the CHINESE prefer red and they wear something red on one of them! Tell me at least one national holiday in Russia for which you need to wear red?
          1. pmkemcity
            pmkemcity 1 December 2020 17: 17
            +1
            Quote: kalibr
            Tell me at least one national holiday in Russia for which you need to wear red?

            Red revolutionary harem pants, for example. Isn't a revolution a national amusement? But seriously, you shouldn't be so - from maiden beets on your cheeks to a red shield on the coat of arms of Moscow, all this speaks of a certain sacred attitude of Russians to red. To paint-decorate, beautiful-beautiful, steal-greed, and even in culinary terms "the hut is red with pies." And if you look at the splint (not to be confused with the pubis) look ... Red-red!
            1. kalibr
              1 December 2020 18: 23
              0
              Quote: pmkemcity
              Red revolutionary harem pants, for example. Isn't a revolution a national amusement? But seriously, you shouldn't be so - from maiden beets on your cheeks to a red shield on the coat of arms of Moscow, all this speaks of a certain sacred attitude of Russians to red. To paint-decorate, beautiful-beautiful, steal-greed, and even in culinary terms "the hut is red with pies." And if you look at the splint (not to be confused with the pubis) look ... Red-red!

              It's like that! And yet we DIDN'T HAVE A NATIONAL HOLIDAY when you have to dress in red. And the Chinese had it and still have it. And harem pants ... You still have red pants from midshipmen in Russia in 1914, remember and ask where they went to ...
              1. pmkemcity
                pmkemcity 2 December 2020 06: 45
                0
                Quote: kalibr
                we DIDN'T HAVE A NATIONAL HOLIDAY

                We don't have NATIONAL HOLIDAYS either. All communist-international and religious, and there is no nation like the "Russians" officially.
                1. kalibr
                  2 December 2020 06: 50
                  0
                  Quote: pmkemcity
                  We don't have NATIONAL HOLIDAYS either. Completely communist-international and religious, and nations such as

                  There are many, and the religious have long become national and there is no bad thing about that! Easter, Maslenitsa, New Year are the same national holidays. And with the peculiarities of food. But there is no special clothing for them. But the Mongols have a White holiday - everything is in white, the Chinese need to wear red for the New Year.
                  1. pmkemcity
                    pmkemcity 2 December 2020 07: 09
                    0
                    That is, you are talking about a new nation "Soviet man-Russian". Do you believe it exists? If so, then flip through the newspaper files with notes about parade demonstrations, red flags and banners, pioneer ties and garrison caps, orders of the Red Banner and the Red Star, but what can I say - for example, I love red pepper! Only now, not all Soviet people in the 91st year wanted to join the Russian nation. It turned out that they had their own nations for a long time.
                    1. kalibr
                      2 December 2020 08: 43
                      0
                      Quote: pmkemcity
                      That is, you are talking about a new nation "Soviet man-Russian". Do you believe it exists? If so, then flip through the newspaper files with notes about parade demonstrations, red flags and banners, pioneer ties and garrison caps, orders of the Red Banner and the Red Star, but what can I say - for example, I love red pepper! Only now, not all Soviet people in the 91st year wanted to join the Russian nation. It turned out that they had their own nations for a long time.

                      But I am writing to you about one thing, you are about another ... why?
                    2. pmkemcity
                      pmkemcity 2 December 2020 09: 47
                      0
                      Quote: kalibr
                      But I am writing to you about one thing, you are about another ...

                      We are talking about the same thing. You confuse tradition with a national trait. None of the Chinese have a gene that makes them wear red or white at funerals, just like Russians wear black on days of mourning.
                    3. kalibr
                      2 December 2020 16: 25
                      +1
                      Quote: pmkemcity
                      None of the Chinese have a gene that makes them wear red or white at funerals, just like Russians wear black on days of mourning.

                      And red for the New Year's holiday is worn ...
                    4. pmkemcity
                      pmkemcity 3 December 2020 05: 00
                      +1
                      Quote: kalibr
                      And red for the New Year's holiday is worn ...

                      So what? For example, as Evdokimov said, I have the same "red face", and not only on New Year's. And the Chinese simply began to live richly. If you have money, they wear red. There is no money - they wear what they have, for example, in old Soviet greatcoats, bought in the 90s from demobels on the Transsib.
                      They say that high, high in the mountains, not in our area, there are such red-assed macaques. This is their national trait. And the monkey on the Sochi beach, dressed in a red beret, is just a macaque, dressed in a red beret, and nothing more.
    3. Bar1
      Bar1 2 December 2020 14: 26
      +2
      Quote: kalibr
      Everyone knows that the CHINESE prefer red and they wear something red on one of them! Tell me at least one national holiday in Russia for which you need to wear red?

      The Chinese are more likely to love yellow or gold. Bogdyhan always put on yellow clothes and no one else dared to wear anything yellow. And when the monarchy was gone, all the Chinese began to persistently wear yellow.

      There was such a holiday in Russia - Red Mountain. At first it was a holiday on the spring equinox, then it was timed to Pasca, then to May 1, then it was completely removed.

      Pyzhikov said that the Russians got up to meet the sun, because the red color of the morning dawn 660nm is favorable for human health.
  • Trilobite Master
    Trilobite Master 1 December 2020 11: 57
    +4
    Quote: Bar1
    what kind of stupidity, how can this be?

    Come on. The Russian language never existed at all. On the map of any century, you will not find a single Russian name - they are not even written in Russian there, let alone anything else. Any name that you consider to be Russian due to some misunderstanding is actually German-speaking.
    The ancient Russian city of Stalingrad - in fact, Steingard - a stone fence, Leningrad - Linnagard, that is, a fence on a hill, Smolensk - Smokless, smokeless in translation from Anglo-Saxon, Rostov - Rostover, overcooked.
    And why does the so-called Russian names always contain "che"? Chernigov, Chelyabinsk, Chernobyl, Chebarkul, Cherepovets, Chernogorsk, I'm not even talking about how many rivers and lakes we call “black”, black. ”But this is a derivative of the Middle-Old Anglo-Germanic“ che ”, which means victory over the enemy (hence the word "champion") Where the middle-ancient Anglo-Germans defeated someone, they called that place in "che", it's clear.
    Do not fool people with their heads, or indeed here some are already beginning to think that Russians really existed, and that this is not an invention of armchair historians of the XNUMXth century.
    wassat laughing
    1. Moskovit
      Moskovit 1 December 2020 12: 16
      +1
      Yes, and Moscow has long been clear. This is the place where the largest barn of the famous English breed of moss cows - the MossCows - was. And the area where the most notorious thieves and robbers lived, but who robbed legally, was called RobberLovka, but after the appearance of the first Russian money, the name was transformed into Rublevka.
      1. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 1 December 2020 13: 01
        +6
        And the villages near Moscow Kraskovo and Malakhovka originated from the robbery of local residents - Kraskovo from the expression "Steal who?" I didn’t come up with a guide to the names of villages and villages in the Moscow region for 1927. There have always been lovers of literature.
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 1 December 2020 13: 58
          +7
          There have always been lovers of literature.

          Sergei, I recall a joke about a toponymic congress, Peter I and a soldier who fell asleep on guard. drinks For the first time, Menshikov, who came to the rescue in time, helped the idiot out -Like, Minhertz, don't be angry, leave him! ", therefore, the village in which the incident happened was named "Astafyevo". And when the undisciplined spit fell asleep a second time, and the tsar discovered it again ... At this point Menshikov was not around, and the village was named according to the tsar's command - "Ipatievo"! request
          1. Aviator_
            Aviator_ 1 December 2020 14: 03
            +3
            There have always been these amateurs, and the opportunity to print nonsense, and not in the "humor" section, was only in the days of the NEP and now.
            1. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 1 December 2020 14: 12
              +3
              and not in the section "humor", was only in the days of the New Economic Policy and now.

              That's right!
          2. Mihaylov
            Mihaylov 1 December 2020 15: 13
            +2
            Quote: Pane Kohanku
            I remember anecdote about the toponymic congress

            Nikolay, let's take the story of Peter I to the court, when he dropped a telescope into the river and began to shout at it: "Thief skla" (that is, glass), so the Vorskla river appeared. laughing
            It's good that he didn't order to flog the river. tongue
            As you can see, Peter was fruitful in the production of geographical toponyms.
            I also remember the Yakhroma river, but in my opinion it was already with Ekaterina2. hi
        2. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 1 December 2020 17: 17
          +2
          Quote: Aviator_
          "Big ahovka".

          If "Big", then not "ahovka". "Bolshaya Akhovka" in Russian is said in one word, in the style of "Ah, at the fir, ah, at the tree, ah, needles are crumbling ..." laughing But in the reference book for 1927, of course, they will not write this ...
          1. Mihaylov
            Mihaylov 1 December 2020 18: 01
            +4
            Quote: Trilobite Master
            If "Big", then not "ahovka". "Bolshaya Akhovka" in Russian is said in one word, in the style of "Ah, at the fir, ah, at the tree, ah, needles are crumbling ..."

            You are more careful please, otherwise you come up with indecent names for settlements, and then you understand that you have to ennoble everything: tongue
            1. Trilobite Master
              Trilobite Master 1 December 2020 19: 02
              +2
              Nothing too ... But in Russian!
              1. Mihaylov
                Mihaylov 1 December 2020 19: 22
                +2
                Quote: Trilobite Master
                Nothing too ... But in Russian!

                I just didn't understand why Perdunovo is in Bogdanovo wassat
            2. Korsar4
              Korsar4 1 December 2020 19: 47
              +4
              And on Sakhalin, whoever does not only admit his love for the city of Okha.
            3. Aviator_
              Aviator_ 1 December 2020 21: 12
              +2
              Document, however! And the Strugatskys had somewhere: "Rename the village" Smerduny "into" Great benevolence "
    2. depressant
      depressant 1 December 2020 16: 01
      +5
      Yeshkin cat! I began to read, my eyes almost popped out of their orbits! )))
      Misha, you are a joker! By the way, you also need to be able to. It won't work without good knowledge.
      1. Phil77
        Phil77 1 December 2020 18: 53
        +5
        Quote: depressant
        well, you are a joker!

        Good evening, dear Lyudmila Yakovlevna!
        But do you know how, thanks to the respected Aviator, my abusive vocabulary was enriched? This is me about the pipidastre! Oh, by God! I did not know the name of this dust broom. I found out. And today one of my workers * screwed up * slightly, so I screwed This is an expression. His physiognomy, and those present just had to SEE!
        Then he comes up and says:
        -Vladimirich, I understand everything, I'm sorry. But why are you so, eh?
        I had to explain and show that I didn’t call him anyone particularly terrible. Thank you Aviator! laughing
        1. depressant
          depressant 1 December 2020 19: 43
          +3
          Good evening, Seryozha!)))
          Yes, you can learn a lot here. For example, I was surprised to learn that Greek wives did not dine with their husbands. At best, they were allowed to sit at the feet of their husband when he was full, lounging on the dinner bed. Etruscan wives fell apart with their husbands - equality. One thing remained unclear how one can eat while lying down. I tried to reproduce the process, it did not work, science did not go for the future)))
          1. Phil77
            Phil77 1 December 2020 19: 47
            +2
            Quote: depressant
            how to eat while lying down.


            I don't understand that either. Are we somehow wrong, perhaps? winked
            1. depressant
              depressant 1 December 2020 19: 52
              +3
              Probably! Apparently, in order to eat so skillfully from a prone position, one must be either an Etruscan or the one in the photo. I am neither one nor the other, even if you strain your imagination and try to enter the image, hehe!
        2. Aviator_
          Aviator_ 1 December 2020 21: 14
          +3
          I'm glad the word came in handy in maintaining working discipline. I will continue to try!
          1. Phil77
            Phil77 1 December 2020 21: 23
            +3
            Oh! Good evening to you! Personally, thank you very much! You know a truly universal word / in terms of swearing /. And what a huge opportunity and use cases !!!! Wow! laughing
            Outrageous! fellow
            1. Aviator_
              Aviator_ 1 December 2020 21: 26
              +3
              I have two graduate students and one graduate student who has not shown himself in any way, so I reserve this term for him in reserve. And how to apply it to females is not entirely clear, although it would be necessary for one.
              1. Phil77
                Phil77 1 December 2020 21: 30
                +3
                Quote: Aviator_
                apply to females -

                What are you? In this regard, there are no questions at all. If there is a desire, I can describe several options in * PM *. The word YET is not abusive, but ... it has already gone to the people. laughing
                1. Aviator_
                  Aviator_ 1 December 2020 21: 36
                  +3
                  Come on, don't. If you really get it, then ...
                  1. Phil77
                    Phil77 1 December 2020 21: 37
                    +3
                    Contact us. Always at your service. hi
    3. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 1 December 2020 16: 57
      +5
      Chernobyl, Chebarkul, Cherepovets, Chernogorsk

      Slogan in "black":
      - Our restaurant will prepare you a delicious cherpeachy skull and groin soup from a previous disgruntled visitor! laughing
      1. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master 1 December 2020 17: 10
        +3
        I remembered:

        Funny ... smile
        1. Aviator_
          Aviator_ 1 December 2020 21: 21
          +4
          I remember this number was shown on New Year 1985. Thanks! good
    4. Phil77
      Phil77 1 December 2020 19: 51
      +3
      Quote: Trilobite Master
      Chebarkul,

      Greetings, Mikhail! Do you recognize it? Presumably filmed in Chebarkul. Presumably!
      1. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master 1 December 2020 19: 57
        +3
        I remembered Chebarkul only because I heard this name in connection with Kharlamov. Therefore, I immediately recognized. smile Before I read the signature. smile True, to be honest, not in this form: "Yes, it's Kharlamov!", Rather like: "Is it really Kharlamov?", But still ...
        1. Phil77
          Phil77 1 December 2020 20: 00
          +3
          But I rummaged around and ... it turned out not! This photo has nothing to do with Chebarkul. Kharlamov played there with Gusev, but Smolin was not. And it turns out he showed very high hopes.
          1. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 1 December 2020 20: 10
            +3
            Here I am without comment ... The history of hockey - only in the most general terms. smile Who is Smolin - I will not say. Gusev - it seems like a defender was in the national team ... I'm too young, I don't remember that line-up, I don't even remember the top five ... Mikhailov - Petrov - Kharlamov I remember, and then there was fog and assumptions ... Well, Tretyak still ... smile
            1. pmkemcity
              pmkemcity 2 December 2020 10: 01
              0
              Quote: Trilobite Master
              Gusev - it seems like a defender was in the national team ... I'm too young, I don't remember that line-up

              Gusev, perhaps, in our team both before him and after, was the only "owner of the rink" - everyone was afraid of him, both the Canadians and ours. And he beat (on the puck) great, in my opinion, I even somehow stitched the net for transport at the Olympics, maybe in Sapporo. He was small, but I remember how they checked and looked for a hole in the gate.
              1. Trilobite Master
                Trilobite Master 2 December 2020 10: 18
                +1
                But I remember the song that we sang to each other in childhood. About hockey.
                Somewhere in this world the championship is underway
                At the gate, Singer sings a song:
                "You don't mind!
                Don't score the puck for us!
                And score the puck for us -
                Let's count your teeth! "
                Suddenly one Canadian picked up the puck
                And the second Canadian scored a puck for us
                Alexander Maltsev, of course, could not stand
                And one Canadian flew overboard
                And the second Canadian plows the ice with his nose
                The nurse crawls to the third Canadian
                Music plays, drums beat
                Team Canada is being taken to the cemetery
                The cemetery is far away, reluctant to go
                Team Canada was thrown into a swamp.

                I sang this song to my parents, but my father told me that Maltsev was too sick for such things, but Yakushev could. Since then I have sung only about Yakushev. laughing
              2. Phil77
                Phil77 2 December 2020 18: 27
                +1
                Quote: pmkemcity
                Gusev, perhaps, in our team both before him and after, was the only "owner of the rink" - everyone was afraid of him, both the Canadians and ours.

                Good evening, I really liked this player.

                Valery Vasiliev from Moscow * Dynamo *, they were afraid to contact him too. hi
                Lord, how long ago it was!
                1. Korsar4
                  Korsar4 2 December 2020 20: 01
                  +1
                  Gusev was not found. I don't remember much of Vasiliev either. There is something to respect.

                  At the time, when he was watching Dynamo's defense, Pervukhin - Bilyaletdinov were in charge.
  • A. Privalov
    A. Privalov 1 December 2020 09: 07
    +5
    The main element in the clothing of the Etruscans were cowards. With their light hand, this device spread around the world.
    How not to recall the poems of the unforgettable Andrei Voznesensky:
    .He stands in only his underpants,
    holds a watch in his hands.
    On the balcony he stands
    and says to passers-by:

    “In the morning, wearing panties,
    DON'T FORGET ABOUT THE WATCH!
    1. depressant
      depressant 1 December 2020 12: 26
      +5
      By the way, about the Etruscan days.
      The Romans adopted a period of time from midnight to midnight as a day.
      The Babylonians counted the time from one morning dawn to the next in a day. Greeks and Germans - from sunset to sunset.
      The Etruscans counted the time from noon to noon per day, since the moment of the position of the sun at its zenith does not depend on the season.
  • Daniil Konovalenko
    Daniil Konovalenko 1 December 2020 09: 42
    +5
    And yet Etruscan who are they? Local Italic people or did they arrive, for example, from Asia Minor? There is a lot of oriental clothing from the ancient Greeks. Again, magnificent navigators, builders, advanced stage art - the heirs of the Cretan - Mycenaean civilization? The Romans, being "local", adopted a lot of things from the Etruscans. Again, the ancestral home of the Etruscans has not been established. This is my subjective opinion: the Etruscans are like some kind of sea nomads, they lived next to one people, they absorbed some kind of culture of tradition, something did not suit, they collected things, found another shore, lived another culture, absorbed, learned, and again on the road, until they finally landed on the Apennine Peninsula, settling among the "wild" Italic tribes. Possessing at that time excellent knowledge in the field of navigation, they do not strive to develop new lands, unlike the Phoenicians and Greeks who roam around the Mediterranean, as if they had found the "promised land." Again, the writing was not adopted from anyone. They created their own, which suggests that they are "local." Or maybe the heirs of a different culture that existed on the Apennine Peninsula before? But traces of it have not survived, from the word at all. And what has survived on the adjacent islands of Sardinia, Corsica, has nothing to do with the Etruscans. There are more questions than answers. And sheer contradictions. Do not judge strictly. smile
    1. kalibr
      1 December 2020 11: 33
      +5
      Quote: Daniil Konovalenko
      Do not judge strictly.

      On the contrary. You have stated everything very clearly and consistently! You need to say thank you for that: straight up a plan for me for the next material.
  • depressant
    depressant 1 December 2020 10: 34
    +6
    Good morning, colleagues! )))
    What do I like about Etruscans? That which was not in the customs and manners of other peoples of the southern area, but was highly valued by the Etruscans, namely the equality of women in noble families and, as they would say now, family values, clannishness. If a noble Roman woman in historical chronicles and inscriptions on monuments is represented only by her family name, for example, Claudia, then the Etruscan, in addition to her family name, also had her own name, which reflected the respectful attitude towards her in the family and society. Of course, it is unlikely that a Roman at home turned to his wife: "Hey, woman!", - well, or with something like: "Ivanova, or whatever you ... Petrova!" But officially the wife of Gaius Julius Caesar was ... Julia. It's like some Dmitry Peskov's wife would just be called Peskov)) Evidence of over-respect or neglect? The Etruscan ladies walked under their names and surnames. And to the ancestral surname of the father, the Etruscans often added the surname of the mother.
    1. Bar1
      Bar1 1 December 2020 10: 41
      +2
      Quote: depressant
      namely, the equality of women in noble families and, as they would say now, family values, clannishness.


      the fact that in some oriental cultures, and not only oriental ones, a woman was not equal in her actions, there were good reasons for that. And above all, the continuation of the family: a man must first of all be sure that the children who were born of his wife are his children, and not from the outside. Therefore:

      -My joy lives, in a high tower
      -and in the tower is that tall
      - no entrance to anyone.
      1. depressant
        depressant 1 December 2020 10: 46
        +5
        Good morning, colleague Bar1!)))
        I guess the song is either hopeful or naive. Or annoyance)).
        1. Bar1
          Bar1 1 December 2020 11: 08
          +3
          Quote: depressant
          Good morning, colleague Bar1!)))
          I guess the song is either hopeful or naive. Or annoyance)).

          psychology in actions, of course, is also important, but actions are primarily dictated by the surrounding reality, therefore, such an important moment of peoples' customs, how not to give women "freedom", as now - choice, was dictated primarily by the need to create the people itself, when children are similar not only to their parents , but also on relatives and on the people themselves. Actually, both races and peoples were created.
    2. Hantengri
      Hantengri 1 December 2020 11: 32
      +6
      Quote: depressant
      But officially the wife of Gaius Julius Caesar was ... Julia. It's like some Dmitry Peskov's wife would just be called Peskov))

      Lyudmila Yakovlevna, Roman women, received the father's nomen as the name. Therefore, Caesar's wife was Cornelia, the daughter of Lucius Cornelius Cinna, and the daughter of Gaius himself from the Julian clan, was called, as it should be, by the generic name - Julia.
      1. depressant
        depressant 1 December 2020 12: 00
        +4
        And like this )))
        You see, I read Plutarch for a long time, I forgot a little. But now, with your help, I refreshed my memory. And then he throws out unnecessary in real life - dig later ...
  • Mihaylov
    Mihaylov 1 December 2020 10: 44
    +5
    In addition to the Vatican Museums in Rome, where the bulk of Etruscan antiquities are located, as well as the Louvre

    I would, Vyacheslav Olegovich, also add that compatriots can get acquainted with the heritage of the Etruscans in the Hermitage. hi
    1. kalibr
      1 December 2020 11: 27
      +4
      Maybe, but I personally find it easier to get a photo of their artifacts from Italy. From the Hermitage you can also ... but the correspondence is very long. And then you will also receive a letter in an envelope with permission ...
  • Undecim
    Undecim 1 December 2020 11: 23
    +10
    But what the Etruscans outdid all the other peoples of the Apennines, and beyond, is in the art of jewelry, which they had developed extremely highly. They knew embossing, engraving and enamel art. They covered items made of cheap metals with thin plates of gold and silver. They made fine jewelry from amber, ivory, knew how to cut precious stones and colored glass.
    I’ll do a little work, Vyacheslav Olegovich, but the Etruscans did not know how to cut precious stones, they engraved them. The cutting of precious stones is not earlier than the XIV century, the Middle Ages.
    Glyptic - the art of carving on colored semi-precious and precious stones, gems, the Etruscans really reached perfection.

    Gemma Stosh. Cornelian. The beginning of the XNUMXth century BC. Antikensammlung der Staatlichen Museen zu Berlin.
    1. kalibr
      1 December 2020 11: 30
      +4
      Yes, that's right about the cut. He probably translated the text from Italian incorrectly. And I translated it through Google, well ...
  • Undecim
    Undecim 1 December 2020 12: 19
    +9
    Quote: Bar1
    The most disgusting thing in this "history" is that Etruscan has long been deciphered and is readable to itself in Russian and Slavonic, and it was deciphered back in the 19th century: Chertkov, Volansky.

    Bar, you also forgot to mention Chertkov's friend, the Italian Ciampi.
    Alexander Dmitrievich Chertkov is rightfully considered the founder of Russian numismatics.
    But if we consider his "exercises" in terms of deciphering the language of the "Pelazgs", and he considered the "Pelazgs" and the Etruscans to be one people, then Chertkov is obviously the first Russian comedian-parodist.
    For example, his "decoding" of the inscription on the mirror "LASTNA RITECL ANAKIA NIST MTSRE CLUNSIA PANSIL".
    The first word is interpreted as "Vlastna" - a proper name derived from the root "power", that is, the owner of the estate, mistress, noblewoman. The second word is like the daughter of Rita or Rita, "descended from Rita." The third word is the name Anisya (a Christian name that appeared in Russia after its baptism and was unthinkable at all in ancient times!). Fourth, "with the release of one vowel" - bears, presents (donates, initiates). Fifth and sixth - "Mithra Sluntius", that is, the sun god Mithra, who was worshiped by the ancient Iranians and whose cult spread later in the Middle East and the Mediterranean. The last PANSIL - is translated as "panu" (lord) of the forces (heavenly), that is, the sun. The entire inscription is translated as "Vlastna (hawthorn, mistress) daughter of Rita, Anisya, brings (as a gift) to Miter the Sun, Pan of forces (this is a mirror)".
    Ignoramuses and adherents of Nosovsky's guru seriously consider this a "decoding".
    1. Astra wild2
      Astra wild2 1 December 2020 18: 36
      +2
      Victor Nikolaevich, I am not familiar to Nosovsky, probably from alternative authors
      But I can confidently say: Chertkov did not know the history of religion at all. NEVER will a pagan have a Christian name! It's even surprising that in the 19th century a person wrote this: I know from literature that there was a subject: "God's Law", and there they had to hammer it into your head that you are pagan - byaka and a Christian woman will not bring gifts to pagan gods
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 1 December 2020 18: 38
        +4
        The law of God did not consider such questions.
  • pmkemcity
    pmkemcity 1 December 2020 13: 51
    +1
    Quote: Stirbjorn
    And the Cherusci? Also Russians, only with the letter "x" ?! What did Momzen write about them?

    It seems that Momzen did not write about the Cherusks. He wrote about the Gerusci .. But among the Germans, the very name of which undoubtedly comes from the word "Ger", there is an opinion that it is necessary to pronounce correctly "with the letter X", as "G" is Ukrainian, which is undoubted proof of the Slavic roots of the Germans , for it is well known that the family of ancient ukrov goes back to Adam himself. good
    Facebook censors do not allow to correctly say the word EP with the letter X! Satraps! Nothing! Our time will also come!
  • pmkemcity
    pmkemcity 1 December 2020 14: 12
    +2
    Quote: Bar1
    -Brussels is a city in Belgium

    Everyone knows that the name of the city of Brussels originated in 1814 from the cabbage varieties zoned in these places by our Volynians (His Majesty's Life Guards Regiment, in the common people "Volontsy"). soldier
  • pmkemcity
    pmkemcity 1 December 2020 14: 14
    +1
    Quote: kalibr
    Some strange descendants. Pants lost

    Not lost, but spent on drink - typical Russians.
  • pmkemcity
    pmkemcity 1 December 2020 14: 19
    +1
    Quote: Trilobite Master
    A statement from the series "monkeys descended from blacks" ..

    Where did you see the white monkey?
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 1 December 2020 15: 18
    +4
    Good afternoon to all colleagues. Vyacheslav Olegovich, thanks for the interesting material.
    We read it carefully. We especially liked the decorations.
    Everyone wanted to try on at least once
    1. kalibr
      1 December 2020 16: 15
      +1
      Glad you liked it. The theme of Etruscan culture will certainly be continued. She's very interesting.
      1. Astra wild2
        Astra wild2 1 December 2020 18: 21
        +1
        I'm sure there will be candy.
        Yes, Vyacheslav Olegovich, you are interested in talking about clothes, but the same Etruscans or Romans, did they eat something? I understand that the menu of the Etruscans or Scythians is from the realm of fantasy, and let's say the period of the Middle Ages. For example, when did citruses or potatoes appear? Somewhere, I read that "potato" riots. So potatoes have recently entered the diet of Russians? And sunflower oil, it seems, it appeared in the middle of the 19th century?
        Р
        S.
        Looks like I was cut off to the chapel
        1. Phil77
          Phil77 1 December 2020 18: 32
          +4
          Quote: Astra wild2
          For example, when did citruses or potatoes appear? Somewhere, I read that "potato" riots. So potatoes have recently entered the diet of Russians? And sunflower oil, it seems, it appeared in the middle of the 19th century?

          And if you try to answer the questions yourself? winked Everything is freely available in the internet. Do you want to know? wink
        2. kalibr
          1 December 2020 18: 41
          +2
          Looks like I was cut off to the chapel [/ quote]
          Basically no. But such work will take a long time. Phil77 (Sergey) wrote above that there really is a lot on the Web. For example, it's difficult to switch from working with museums to food, and from weapons to growing potatoes ...
        3. Korsar4
          Korsar4 1 December 2020 20: 45
          +3
          There is a version that when Hercules went for the Apples of the Hesperides, it was he who went for oranges. They only argue - to Spain, or directly to China.
          1. Phil77
            Phil77 1 December 2020 21: 12
            +2
            Quote: Korsar4
            went oranges.

            Spain? China?

            Good evening Sergey! Champions League means not watching? wink
            1. Korsar4
              Korsar4 1 December 2020 21: 31
              +3
              Good evening, Seryozha! It's not tempting yet.
              And oranges in 1982 could be Moroccan, Israeli, or even Cuban.

              Although the famous rhombus is more associated with tangerines.

              In August 1987, he tore a tangerine from a tree in Poti. He, as expected, was completely green.
      2. Phil77
        Phil77 1 December 2020 18: 40
        +3
        Greetings, Vyacheslav Olegovich!
        There is one topic that we will never know about. What kind of music did they have! What did they sing, what about? After all, they probably had it, but .... It's sad. *. recourse
        1. kalibr
          1 December 2020 18: 50
          +2
          Quote: Phil77
          There is one topic that we will never know about. What kind of music did they have! What did they sing, what about? After all, they probably had it, but .... It's sad. *.

          An interesting question! And ... we will not get 99% of the answer. Nobody wrote down the music ... The lyrics ... well, maybe. How do we know the melody?
          1. Phil77
            Phil77 1 December 2020 18: 57
            +2
            Yes, and imagine how great it would be to pull on something swanky * Etruscan *, huh? wink
            1. Astra wild2
              Astra wild2 1 December 2020 20: 23
              0
              Quote: Phil77
              Yes, and imagine how great it would be to pull on something swanky * Etruscan *, huh? wink

              Generally, it is more swanky than East Slavic, and Etruscans from the Apenines.
              1. Phil77
                Phil77 1 December 2020 20: 30
                +2
                Quote: Astra wild2
                Generally, it is more swanky than East Slavic, and Etruscans from the Apenines.

                Vera! Word- * swanky * has no national meaning!
                Cheerful, dashing, open. Well, and arrogant ... sometimes. I meant to sing something dashing, funny, swanky.
                It was a joke, a joke. laughing
                There was also a smiley. Didn't you notice? recourse
                1. vladcub
                  vladcub 1 December 2020 20: 36
                  +5
                  Astra has no time to notice this. She is busy with something else: looking for something else to load on V. Oh
                  1. Phil77
                    Phil77 1 December 2020 20: 38
                    +3
                    Quote: vladcub
                    load on V.O

                    ++++++!
                    And it succeeds. laughing
                  2. Astra wild2
                    Astra wild2 1 December 2020 21: 06
                    +2
                    You might think that Vladkub is not satisfied with the work of Vyacheslav Olegovich?
                2. Astra wild2
                  Astra wild2 1 December 2020 21: 04
                  +3
                  I saw it, but I wanted to slightly damage it. Forgive me a little whim. I am 11 and a half years old, I am almost not capricious. Sometimes he finds, but I'm serious.
                  At the age of 11, I decided that I was ripe for the Komsomol: I knew the Charter, remembered the tasks of the Komsomol, and the secretary of the district committee of the Komsomol, was a bawdy, said: until my breasts grow, I have nothing to do in the Komsomol. I was outraged and wrote to the Central Committee of the All-Union Leninist Young Communist League and the Regional Party Committee, but did not have time to send it. And then the Komsomol was gone. So I was not a Komsomol member
                  1. Phil77
                    Phil77 1 December 2020 21: 08
                    +3
                    Quote: Astra wild2
                    Until my breasts grow, I have nothing to do in the Komsomol. I was outraged and wrote to the Central Committee of the All-Union Leninist Young Communist League and the Regional Party Committee, but did not have time to send it.

                    Well, and what? He was right when he said that it was impossible to join the Komsomol without breasts! laughing laughing laughing
                    Imagine yourself. A member of the Komsomol and ..... without breasts ?! Nonsense. laughingWhat is this member ??? wink
                  2. Phil77
                    Phil77 1 December 2020 21: 15
                    +1
                    Quote: Astra wild2
                    Breast

                    * Plus * -my. Behind the breasts! laughing laughing laughing
                  3. pmkemcity
                    pmkemcity 3 December 2020 05: 08
                    0
                    Quote: Astra wild2
                    Until my breasts grow, I have nothing to do in the Komsomol.

                    Intrigued - they still haven't grown?
              2. Fat
                Fat 1 December 2020 21: 05
                +2
                Quote: Astra wild2
                Generally, it is more swanky than East Slavic, and Etruscans from the Apenines.

                Come on ... Almost everyone who did not drink alcohol-containing alcohol alone has something fussy ...
                drinks If the British have it, the Bretons have it ... Probably everyone has who honored the drunken
          2. Mihaylov
            Mihaylov 1 December 2020 19: 26
            +5
            Quote: kalibr
            An interesting question! And ... we will not get 99% of the answer. Nobody wrote down the music ... The lyrics ... well, maybe. How do we know the melody?

            The Greeks had sheet music, some of them survived hi
          3. Astra wild2
            Astra wild2 1 December 2020 20: 19
            +1
            Theoretically, if there is a text, but knowing what musical instruments they had. You can choose a melody.
            Perhaps the Romans could "inherit" musical instruments and melodies.
            I was not very interested in the history of music, but as a rule, the lyrics change for the songs, and the melody may be somewhat archaic
            1. depressant
              depressant 2 December 2020 00: 40
              +3
              Music...
              In music, the Etruscans were diligent students of the Greeks, but even here they were reprimanded by the Stoics and even Aristotle. In their opinion, music occupied an inappropriate place in the life of the Etruscans, transforming it from high art, as we would say now, into pop music)) Music for the Greeks with their cult of muses was "food for the soul" and was considered as one of the methods of intellectual education. According to them, singing, playing musical instruments is the basis of life, without this there is nothing. The mythological Orpheus charmed animals, stones and gods with his lyre. I'm not sure about stones and gods, but animals really react to music.
              Among the many videos watched on this topic, one was especially amused. Pavarotti appeared on the big screen of a flat-screen TV and began to sing. The dog sitting far by the door rushed to the screen with all its might, sat down close to it and, lifting its muzzle, began to "sing along" hoarsely, and not chaotically, but tried to accurately hit the notes.
              Well, this is so, by the way))
              In addition to Orpheus, Apollo, Lin, Amphion and Marsyas were also considered legendary musicians - kifared and avlet (such a flute). They had students, they competed with them, they were compared with them, and they believed that legends from music were able to pacify monsters and destroy stone walls with their play. I’m not surprised, the acoustics are like that, but flutes and citharas? Jericho Trumpets - yes. ))
              In the curriculum for teaching children, music was put in the first place even in harsh Sparta - playing the lyre, dancing, singing. Concerts of outstanding performers were held everywhere. And, of course, music was accompanied by any important events - harvesting, feasts, weddings and funerals.
              It was exactly the same with the Etruscans.
              So what caused the ire of the Greek philosophers against the Etruscans and the accusation of "effeminacy"? And the fact that the Etruscans accompanied "low occupations" with music, namely: they prepared food to the sound of a flute, whipped slaves and waved their fists for a bet)))
              It can be assumed that it was very noisy in Etruscan cities and towns.

              Plutarch wrote with displeasure that the music during the flogging of slaves among the Etruscans was not used at all to soften the anger of the owner and alleviate the suffering of the punished, but to set the rhythm of the flogging. Aristotle, on the other hand, was indignant at the fact that the music in the kitchen of the Etruscans set the rhythm when kneading dough.
              By the way, I once had a record of some Greek composer with songs in their folk style - these very flutes and citharas. Unfortunately, I didn't like it.
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 1 December 2020 15: 40
    +1
    Quote: svp67
    Thank you, the topic is really very interesting.
    And the Etruscans were also masters of FILLING products ... even tangerines)))

    Have you been invited to the tasting? In general, it is customary to have a snack with marinade, but what was put on the table?
    The first part is a joke, the second: seriously. I wonder what kind of dishes the Etruscans had.? Probably the same as the Greeks.?
  • vladcub
    vladcub 1 December 2020 20: 31
    +3
    Quote: Trilobite Master
    Hello, Glory.
    Quote: vladcub
    Fig knows what they eat?

    By metabolic products, you can also determine the diet. They don't eat anything good.

    "You understand" (c) I am Orthodox and I am afraid to take a sin on my soul. Suddenly they eat together with cockroaches and: "instantly into the sea" (c)
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 1 December 2020 21: 08
    +2
    Quote: Phil77
    Quote: vladcub
    load on V.O

    ++++++!
    And it succeeds. laughing

    I try for everyone
  • pmkemcity
    pmkemcity 3 December 2020 05: 02
    0
    Quote: Phil77
    Valery Vasiliev from Moscow * Dynamo *

    This is, as they say, "the next generation", but at the same time they played.
  • kalibr
    3 December 2020 07: 01
    +1
    Quote: pmkemcity
    the same is "red face", and not only for the New Year.

    Clear. But keep in mind that a glass of vodka, especially ours, based on alcohol from oil, kills 7 million nerve cells in the head at once and does not leave the body for 30 days. Of course, there are a lot of cells in the head, but there are also a lot of glasses, right? Hence such comments!
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 3 December 2020 07: 43
    +1
    Quote: pmkemcity
    Quote: Astra wild2
    Until my breasts grow, I have nothing to do in the Komsomol.

    Intrigued - they still haven't grown?

    Want to check it out?