Military Review

The aircraft LMS-2 "Baikal" created to replace the An-901 was tested in a wind tunnel

161
The aircraft LMS-2 "Baikal" created to replace the An-901 was tested in a wind tunnel

The promising light multipurpose aircraft LMS-901 "Baikal", created to replace the Soviet aircraft An-2, was "blown" in the wind tunnel of the TsAGI im. Zhukovsky. The studies were carried out by order of OOO Baikal-Engineering.


Tests in the T-102 wind tunnel of TsAGI passed a model of the aircraft, made on a scale of 1: 7. At the first stage, tests were carried out at air flow rates from 25 to 50 meters per second. A simulator of a working power plant was used on the model. Experts determined the total aerodynamic characteristics of the aircraft and the effectiveness of its controls. The tests will continue.

The new aircraft LMS-901, being developed to replace the An-2, has a length of 12,2 meters, a height of 3,7 meters and a wingspan of 16,5 meters. Maximum take-off weight - 4,8 tons, speed - up to 300 km / h. The maximum flight range is 3 thousand km. The aircraft is created according to a modular scheme, which will allow it to be converted into a cargo or passenger version.

In the summer of 2019, the Ministry of Industry and Trade announced a competition for the development of a light multifunctional aircraft for nine passengers to replace the legendary An-2 "Corn". The winner was LLC "Baikal-Engineering" - a subsidiary of the Ural plant of civil aviation.

At the same time, the Ministry of Industry and Trade abandoned the planned for serial production in 2021 of the single-engine TVS-2DTS "Baikal" aircraft, developed by the Siberian Research Institute of Aviation on the basis of "Kukuruznik", all its developments went to the creation of the LMS-901 "Baikal".
Photos used:
TsAGI
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  1. bessmertniy
    bessmertniy 28 November 2020 17: 13
    +16
    It's good that a new workhorse is being prepared, which will replace the famous maize. But AN-2 is a lump of our history. good
    1. Borik
      Borik 28 November 2020 17: 16
      +30
      Replacing "Annushka" is long overdue, but how long to wait for her? This gimp has been going on for 20 years. During this time, there were 5-6 quite competitive cars to replace the AN-2, but not one of them never went into production. That money was not for some other reason.
      1. Alexfly
        Alexfly 28 November 2020 18: 44
        +15
        This gimp has been going on for 40 years
        1. Grits
          Grits 29 November 2020 06: 15
          +12
          Quote: AlexFly
          This gimp has been going on for 40 years

          This gimp is called - shame on our aircraft designers and our aircraft factories. Our grandfathers, who created the "corncob" and riveted it like slippers, simply grin at modern specialists and shake their heads in bewilderment.
          1. Nazar
            Nazar 29 November 2020 10: 59
            +3
            Gritsa - The factories have nothing to do with it, I live in Ulan-Ude, and I know for sure - there will be a project, the plant will assemble this aircraft without any problems.
            But you wrote correctly about the "designers" - this is really a shame, and even engine building should also be mentioned - there is no engine for the corn machine in the country and in the near future it is not visible.
            1. Grits
              Grits 29 November 2020 13: 45
              +1
              Quote: Nazar
              Gritsa - The factories have nothing to do with it, I live in Ulan-Ude, and I know for sure - there will be a project, there will be components, the plant will assemble this aircraft without problems

              Well if that's the case. But something tells me that at our aircraft factories not everything is in order with modern technologies, with modern equipment and, most importantly, with trained personnel. I would like to be wrong.
              1. Nazar
                Nazar 29 November 2020 15: 28
                +1
                Gritsa - U-UAZ is headed not by a lawyer and a manager - here is also a Soviet director with a specialized engineering education and vast experience.
                The plant now specializes in the production and overhaul of Mil family helicopters, practically all modifications from the repair of basic MI-8 to the release of the latest MI-17 (1) models of various modifications. Products are made both for the Ministry of Defense and for the Ministry of Emergencies, and a lot is exported, so with technology, machine park and qualifications of workers, everything is normal.
                A 9-seater plane is an order of magnitude easier to manufacture than a modern helicopter - it will be produced quickly ... there would be something to produce, but here is a complete poppa negative
                1. Sling cutter
                  Sling cutter 1 December 2020 03: 31
                  0
                  Quote: Nazar
                  A 9-seater plane is an order of magnitude easier to manufacture than a modern helicopter - it will be produced quickly ... there would be something to produce, but here is a complete poppa

                  About 15 years ago, an old test pilot told me that if everything goes in the same spirit, we will lose our domestic aviation. And recently I listened to an interview with Svetlana Kapanina and realized that we are losing aviation forever.
                  Our industrial department can no longer release a sports plane.
          2. Alexfly
            Alexfly 29 November 2020 13: 58
            0
            There was at one time a crude TVD-20 engine in my opinion, and where is it? Was damp, could have brought to mind in 40 years ... Yes, and AN-2 would fly today on octane gasoline, only its production in Russia was closed for "environmental reasons" .... In Poland, it means you can, but Russia, no, no ...
      2. Serpet
        Serpet 28 November 2020 19: 27
        +3
        A localized L-2 was also offered to replace the AN-410 - the same is a good option by the way
        1. Boa kaa
          Boa kaa 28 November 2020 19: 47
          +25
          Quote: Serpet
          The localized L-2 was also offered to replace the AN-410.

          It's time to stop rake dancing! (from)
          Or did the SuperJet story teach you nothing? They may sell them, but with spare parts it may turn out to be a bummer, as happened to Jet ... They are so "grateful" Czechs, they are already demolishing monuments of our marshals. And this is not the limit ... Whether NATO will still do it and - will do it! Uncle Sam will give orders, and they will tuck the overcoat into the panties ... For so NATO!
          Therefore, you need to have your own avia-savraska, which you can feed with hay instead of selected oats. laughing
          1. Antifreeze
            Antifreeze 28 November 2020 19: 59
            +18
            Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
            the story of the Superjet has taught nothing

            The man says - localized. And if the glider is from the Czech Republic, then of course you don't need
            1. bayard
              bayard 28 November 2020 22: 44
              +25
              The plant was bought out and transported to the Urals, where they are going to collect.
              But!
              No engine.
              And for "Kukuruznik" too - there is no engine.
              And for the Ansat and Ka-226 helicopters, too - there are no engines.
              There are no engines for the long-awaited Ka-62.
              And for the Be-200.
              And for the "Super-Jet" there is no engine of its own.
              And for the Mi-26, too, there is NO engine.
              But for the Il-76MD90A there is an engine ... but there are no aircraft in serial production (namely serial production, not piece production).
              ... The propulsion curse of modern Russian aviation.
              But they promised that these engines (for "Ansat", Ka-226, L-410, Ka-62) by the end of the year ... will appear. In production. In finished products.
              Apparently "kovid" knocked down. what
              1. Elturisto
                Elturisto 28 November 2020 22: 48
                +4
                There are no engines for ships and for the Tu-160 and for the Tu-22 and for drones.
                1. bayard
                  bayard 28 November 2020 23: 12
                  +29
                  For Tu-160 and Tu-22M3M engines have already appeared and the first batch was not only transferred to the plant, but also delivered. But the number and pace are not yet great.
                  But with engines for unmanned vehicles, yes ... sadness ...
                  And for the Il-112, Il-114 with engines, not everything is all right either - they are damp.
                  ... And they would have taken Zaporozhye in 2014, and they would not have known grief.
                  And for "Ruslans" they would not know grief.
                  And for the Be-200.
                  And for ... the entire line of civil and military transport helicopters and aircraft.
                  ... And if then Nikolayev was also taken, then they would not know grief with the power plant for the ships.
                  But Solntseliky raised taxes, prices, carried out a pension reform, jumped into a bunker, got up from his knees in a different position and periodically sings tales about terrible missiles, along which we are "ahead of the planet" ...
                  ... "Sarmat" meanwhile does not fly ...
                  But everyone is already afraid of him.
                  1. Sergej1972
                    Sergej1972 29 November 2020 00: 14
                    -3
                    Nevertheless, no one, including Russia's opponents, has any doubts that the Sarmat will be adopted.
                    1. bayard
                      bayard 29 November 2020 00: 29
                      +11
                      The main thing is for him to fly.
                      Just one single time to start.
                      With a full-cycle flight - with training BB, with the defeat of targets on the Kura, without serious system failures.
                      It is a very complex rocket, and the Makeeva Design Bureau has never built heavy rockets. Her SLBMs were all light class. And they even created Typhoon in close cooperation with the Yuzhnoye Design Bureau and the Pavlograd Mechanical Plant.
                      Just look at HOW MANY unsuccessful launches of the P-36 preceded the success? How many flaws were revealed during such unsuccessful launches? And only after summarizing all this experience and correcting all the mistakes, the rocket still flew and became the basis of our Strategic Missile Forces in the heavy class.
                      "Sarmat" is the same R-36M2 with a new upgrade and from a new manufacturer. Therefore, the Makeev Design Bureau has yet to go all the way of trials, mistakes and failures.
                      For not a single launch of this rocket has yet been made (throwing does not count). And how long it will take to bring it up to condition is completely ... not clear ... Yuzhnoye Design Bureau cannot be connected to cooperation ...
                      In 2014, Russia had a chance to make the Yuzhnoye design bureau again Russian ... It was simply necessary to take advantage of the request of the president of the former Ukraine to provide military (or just force) assistance in eliminating the consequences of the fascist coup.
                      This chance was not used.
                      This is bad for everyone.
                      ... And the rocket does not fly.
                      Hopefully bye.
                      hi
                      1. Titus_2
                        Titus_2 29 November 2020 01: 30
                        +2
                        Sorry .... your comments are always interesting and relevant, but at this moment I got confused .... it seems not about the rocket discussion
                      2. bayard
                        bayard 29 November 2020 03: 07
                        +2
                        This was in response to a previous comment:
                        Quote: Sergej1972
                        Nevertheless, no one, including Russia's opponents, has any doubts that the Sarmat will be adopted.
                2. Andrei Nikolaevich
                  Andrei Nikolaevich 29 November 2020 08: 32
                  +10
                  Yeah ... And we collect Armenians to the Moldovans under our wings. Why the hell ?! And yuzhmash, nikolayev and zaporozhye-profukali .. Some idiocy.
                3. Elturisto
                  Elturisto 29 November 2020 09: 16
                  0
                  yes appeared on paper ...
            2. iouris
              iouris 28 November 2020 23: 24
              +1
              Quote: bayard
              No engine.

              To "no" and no trial.
              This story is too long-running. The replacement of the An-2 is being prepared for fifty years.
              An-2 is irreplaceable!
              1. bayard
                bayard 29 November 2020 01: 30
                +6
                So you have to buy them in China. request
                China has no problems with engines for An-2 ...
            3. Grits
              Grits 29 November 2020 06: 22
              +9
              Quote: bayard
              ... The propulsion curse of modern Russian aviation.

              We have a propulsion curse not only in aviation. And also in shipbuilding, in the automotive industry, in the motorcycle industry.
              ... Although, there is no motor building as such at all. Why do we need an engine if no motorcycles, no motorized carriages, no motor scooters, no mopeds, no scooters, no motorbikes are built in Russia. There are even no domestic engines for mowers, chainsaws, walk-behind tractors and other little things.
              1. Nazar
                Nazar 29 November 2020 15: 44
                +3
                Gritsa (Alexander) - There is such a joke:
                “Before the revolution, there was a church and a roadside tavern in our village. The Bolsheviks came, a library was opened in the church, a tavern was closed, a school and a clinic were built. .. "
                What I mean - until 1917. in the Russian Empire, NOT a SINGLE (!) internal combustion engine was produced. All these cars like "Russo-Balt" or planes of the same Sikorsky are all imported.
                Now the Russian Federation is confidently returning to the same, for that is, "a church and a roadside tavern. fellow
                1. Sling cutter
                  Sling cutter 1 December 2020 03: 42
                  0
                  Quote: Nazar
                  Now the Russian Federation is confidently returning to the same, for that is, "a church and a roadside tavern.

                  The main thing is that there is a person who "raised all the rocks".
        2. ihnovich990
          ihnovich990 29 November 2020 00: 09
          +4
          Well, yes, well, yes. Only it will never go into production, just like TVS with which they have been worn for 10 years, but things are still there.
      3. Nazar
        Nazar 29 November 2020 15: 36
        +1
        Serpet -1. cars of different classes
        2.L-410 from an unprepared area is not a flyer
        3. There is no engine - the L-410 is imported, according to our orders, government agencies (the same Ministry of Emergency Situations) should not buy such a product. They plan VK-800 both for Elka and the mythical Baikal, but only this dvigun has been "developed" and developed for several years now, and in Russia this process can last for decades
    2. for
      for 28 November 2020 19: 51
      +2
      Quote: Borik
      Replacement of "Annushka" is long overdue

      The replacement has already been, AN-14 Pchelka, but for some reason went
      1. iouris
        iouris 29 November 2020 00: 50
        +1
        An-14 is not a replacement for An-2.
        1. for
          for 29 November 2020 10: 34
          0
          Quote: iouris
          An-14 is not a replacement for An-2.

          But as the pilots of that time said, a replacement. Then this one doesn't look like a replacement either.
    3. Dima68
      Dima68 28 November 2020 21: 29
      +1
      There is no engine of its own, therefore a gimp.
  2. ul_vitalii
    ul_vitalii 28 November 2020 18: 31
    +4
    Quote: bessmertniy
    It's good that a new workhorse is being prepared, which will replace the famous maize. But AN-2 is a lump of our history. good

    I agree with the significance of its predecessor, but a new workhorse, yes, on our abandoned farmlands, woodlands
    etc. etc. recourse How many do you need? Can Yakubovich be put at the wheel? Enough for him to lead one of the fields of miracles.
    1. Boris Chernikov
      Boris Chernikov 28 November 2020 18: 40
      -4
      if there is demand, there will be supply
      1. Telakh
        Telakh 28 November 2020 20: 56
        -2
        Tales of the peoples of the world.
  3. businessv
    businessv 28 November 2020 21: 16
    +4
    Quote: bessmertniy
    It's good that a new workhorse is being prepared, which will replace the famous maize. But AN-2 is a lump of our history.

    Yeah, I was ready for a long time, but something went wrong!
    Why is the new version better? Unclear!
    1. bayard
      bayard 28 November 2020 23: 15
      +5
      Quote: businessv
      Why is the new version better? Unclear!

      New budget. fellow
      1. Aerodrome
        Aerodrome 29 November 2020 02: 02
        +5
        [quote] 0
        Well, yes, well, yes. Only it will never go into production, just like TVS with which they have been worn for 10 years, but things are still there.
        Reply
        Quote
        A complaint
        for
        for (Nothing personal, just my opinion)
        Yesterday, 19: 51
        [/ Quote]
        +1
        [quote] Quote: Borik
        Replacement of "Annushka" is long overdue

        The replacement has already been, AN-14 Pchelka, but for some reason went
        Reply
        Quote
        A complaint
        iouris
        iouris (iouris)
        Today, 00: 50
        [/ Quote]
        0
        [quote] The An-14 is not a replacement for the An-2.
        Reply
        Quote
        A complaint
        Dima68
        Dima68 (Dmitry)
        Yesterday, 21: 29
        [/ Quote]
        0
        [Quote] There is no engine of its own, therefore a gimp.
        Reply
        Quote
        A complaint
        ul_vitalii
        cough ... cough ... (clearing his throat for an old man ...) jelmens, what I want to say ... let's look at the "manufacturer", maybe many questions will disappear. [quote] [/ quote]. [quote]. COMMUNITY WITH "BAIKAL-ENGINEERING" LIMITED LIABILITY
        Operating organization

        1190327002953
        from 22 February 2019
        INN / KPP
        0326566225
        773401001
        Registration Date
        22.02.2019
        Authorized capital
        10 000 rub.
        All requisites (FTS / PFR / FSS / ROSSTAT)
        Legal address
        123308, Moscow, Marshal Zhukov Avenue, building 1, building 1, floor / pom / room 2 / I / 27
        Managing organization
        JOINT STOCK COMPANY "URAL CIVIL AVIATION PLANT"
        from 20 February 2020
        Average number
        14 employees (2019) [/ quote] who, urya small Oviation?
        1. bayard
          bayard 29 November 2020 03: 14
          +3
          [quote = Airfield] Average headcount
          14 employees (2019) [/ quote] how cho, urya small Oviation? [/ Quote]
          Pra-and-achechnaya. bully
        2. Nazar
          Nazar 29 November 2020 15: 48
          +2
          Airfield - as they say "the court is clear" - the next horns and hooves, or "Sawmill named after Manturov"
    2. Boris Chernikov
      Boris Chernikov 29 November 2020 11: 25
      -1
      monoplane made .. it's better
      1. businessv
        businessv 29 November 2020 22: 16
        0
        Quote: Boris Chernikov
        monoplane made .. it's better

        Well - well, well, justify why this monoplane is better than a biplane ?! Only reasonedly, not "I think so"! smile
  4. Looking for
    Looking for 29 November 2020 15: 53
    0
    it will be shit. not a new horse. Mark my words.
  • loki565
    loki565 28 November 2020 17: 18
    +22
    Blow, do not blow, you will still get Cessna Caravan))) The main question is whose engine, this is what ruined TVS-2DTS "Baikal
    1. mark1
      mark1 28 November 2020 17: 27
      +8
      Quote: loki565
      this is what destroyed TVS-2DTS "Baikal

      Mr. Manturov ruined it because of his ardent love for the UZGA, everything else was decided at the same time (or less).
      1. loki565
        loki565 28 November 2020 17: 34
        -1
        Mr. Manturov ruined it because of his ardent love for the UZGA, everything else was decided at the same time (or less).

        And what kind of engine to put on it? Currently, developing an aircraft for an American engine is not an idea, and biplane will lose in terms of speed and fuel efficiency.
        1. major071
          major071 28 November 2020 17: 36
          +3
          At the first stage, the General Electric H901-80 engine will be installed on the LMS-200, this is an updated Czech-made Walter M601. In the future, it should be replaced by the "Klimovsky" VK-800. Also, at the first stage, imported avionics of the Garmin or Honeywell type will be used, followed by replacement with Russian equipment, and the same Hartzell propeller. hi
          1. lelik613
            lelik613 28 November 2020 18: 00
            +5
            It is reasonable to believe that with the choice of this engine, the car will not survive the milestone of the first stage. They will buy or steal one engine, but when switching to the series, the deliveries will be blocked.
          2. D16
            D16 28 November 2020 18: 51
            0
            At the first stage, the General Electric H901-80 engine will be installed on the LMS-200

            The first stage meant the first board in order to start testing. Again, if suddenly some Papuan wants to purchase this pepelats with an American engine, this option has already been worked out. smile
          3. Nazar
            Nazar 29 November 2020 15: 56
            +1
            major071 - How did you write - "at the first stage"? This "stage" will last 15-20 years, won't it?
            And read about the VK-800, if not laziness, in the Military Industrial Courier for September 29, 2020, the article by Vladimir Volgin "There were no commands to take off."
            A very interesting article, specifically about the VK-800 there, towards the end of the subtitle "Another poor student".
        2. mark1
          mark1 28 November 2020 17: 48
          +3
          When the concept was being worked out, the idea was to use engines purchased on the secondary market (there are up to ... a lot of them, they are cheap, somewhere between 200-300 thousand dollars, and they do not fall under sanctions) with the prospect of replacing them with domestic ones as soon as they are ready. The option of installing two VK-650 was also offered.
          The development of UZGA assumes a smaller volume of the fuselage with a slightly higher carrying capacity, which is not very good for a cargo-passenger aircraft.
      2. Stirbjorn
        Stirbjorn 28 November 2020 18: 18
        0
        Quote: mark1
        Mr. Manturov ruined it because of his ardent love for the UZGA, everything else was decided at the same time (or less).

        I agree. Even if TVS-2DTS "Baikal" is not suitable, then it should have been modified by the Siberian Research Institute, and not by the Ural plant. Here the competencies are absolutely different
        1. ism_ek
          ism_ek 29 November 2020 08: 59
          +2
          UZGA is a production base, test benches. While the Tu-154s were flying, the plant was well re-equipped. Well, the helicopter theme also keeps the plant afloat, but the capacity and scientific potential are underutilized.
          Siberian Research Institute is the legacy of the USSR
          1. Nazar
            Nazar 29 November 2020 16: 00
            0
            ism_ek (Ilya) - UZGA - assembly shop, "screwdriver" with personnel of appropriate qualifications.
            1. ism_ek
              ism_ek 29 November 2020 18: 13
              0
              You at least have opened the site UZGA. In the late 70s, the plant was engaged in servicing Kuznetsov's engines. Bulkhead, troubleshooting, coating restoration, blade manufacturing, testing. Since the mid-90s, he also began to repair Ukrainian engines and gearboxes for helicopters.
              The assembly of drones is a separate, not the main production.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Genry
      Genry 28 November 2020 19: 28
      +2
      Quote: loki565
      The main question is whose engine, this is what destroyed TVS-2DTS "Baikal"

      Ruined by an ancient structure using expensive composites and non-compliance with the requirements of AP-23.
      1. Captain Nemo
        Captain Nemo 29 November 2020 16: 09
        0
        In the ancient An-2, the design is very rational. But TVS-2DTS has a biplane scheme without racks and braces - this is a miracle of wonders, as a result of a huge overweight of the structure. The expensive composite didn't even save me. They started an airplane for the government services of the rich countries, but we need an apparatus for the poor semi-colonies.
        When creating a replacement for the An-2, you need to dance from the stove - a massive cheap motor produced at state-owned factories under the supervision of the state with honest and competent officials. Therefore, for now ---- x ------------- b ----------- n ----, "do not give us order in the tank forces as our ears" ...
    4. figwam
      figwam 28 November 2020 20: 08
      0
      Quote: loki565
      Blow it, don't blow it

      Everything grows from An-2.
      1. D16
        D16 29 November 2020 10: 25
        +1
        Only the fuselage is smaller and the wing is completely different. And so one to one lol ... But seriously, what else is there to invent? Give it to those. assignment to some Brazilian Embraer, and the exit will be outwardly the same plane.
  • Alien From
    Alien From 28 November 2020 17: 21
    -14%
    In the 21st century, looking for a replacement for AN 2 .... this is utopia!
    1. RUSS
      RUSS 28 November 2020 17: 51
      -6
      Quote: Alien From
      In the 21st century, looking for a replacement for AN 2 .... this is utopia!

      This is not a utopia, this is Russia!
    2. Vadim237
      Vadim237 28 November 2020 18: 27
      -12%
      It would be better instead to create a high-speed helicopter in terms of capacity and carrying capacity like the Mi 38.
      1. Alien From
        Alien From 28 November 2020 20: 10
        -11%
        Pay attention to the minusers, it's ridiculous!
        1. Telakh
          Telakh 28 November 2020 20: 59
          +9
          Your incredibly competent opinion attracts them.
          1. Alien From
            Alien From 28 November 2020 21: 29
            -2
            And not only to me)))
      2. Captain Nemo
        Captain Nemo 29 November 2020 16: 22
        +1
        The cost of a flight hour of a helicopter and a light aircraft is incomparable.
  • Mishanya74_2
    Mishanya74_2 28 November 2020 17: 24
    -4
    Great news ... Model 1/7 has been tested.
    1. RUSS
      RUSS 28 November 2020 18: 16
      -9
      Quote: Mishanya74_2
      Great news ... Model 1/7 has been tested.

      Based on the real world in civil aviation, "blowing" the corn 2.0 will soon be an achievement.
  • Thunderbolt
    Thunderbolt 28 November 2020 17: 27
    +2
    Russia is the leader in aerodynamics. And what about the engine for such excellent vehicles?
  • Thrifty
    Thrifty 28 November 2020 17: 28
    +13
    We have such a show - instead of solving the problem, they are engaged in imitation of violent activity, "mastering" money, and without giving a result! After all, an airplane was created, and it seems like not even one, to replace the An-2! ​​Who did not agree with what, why did the airplanes not “go to the sky?” The desire to continue to cut the loot, and not do work for the result! !!
    1. KCA
      KCA 28 November 2020 17: 39
      0
      Whose loot to cut? Private shareholders? All these crafts for AN-2 were made by private companies from imported components, including engines and all avionics, of course, in the current conditions, no one needs all these options
      1. Nazar
        Nazar 28 November 2020 18: 24
        +4
        KCA - UZGA received pennies from the budget - Manturovskaya lured structure
        1. D16
          D16 28 November 2020 19: 52
          -2
          Manturovskaya lured structure

          God forbid there are more such lured structures that are slowly doing their job.
          1. Nazar
            Nazar 29 November 2020 04: 19
            +2
            D16 (Ilya) And there are quite a few of them - starting with Rusnano, Skolkovo, and further down the list of different stripes and scales, and all of them are "slowly doing their job" fellow
            1. D16
              D16 29 November 2020 10: 18
              -1
              And there are already quite a few of them - starting with Rusnano, Skolkovo, and further down the list of different suits

              You would all be one size fits all. Something I have not heard that Skolkovo or Rusnano would slowly assemble and develop aircraft or repair gas turbine engines. UZGA does the job, in contrast to the above.
              1. Nazar
                Nazar 29 November 2020 10: 43
                +2
                D16 - At the aircraft plant in our city, it seems like they will have to serially produce this aircraft.
                And for this, production areas are usually prepared in advance. I am a civil engineer, retired, but I am aware of what is being built (or going to build) at this plant - they regularly turn to me for advice. I can say for sure - today even the project documentation (for construction work) for this case has not been ordered, but it will take two years for the auction and for the project itself, and the same amount for the auction for construction work and for the work itself.
                Why is that ? Yes, because the director of the plant is a very experienced and well-informed person, it is easy to convince you and me with beautiful pictures and articles that "work is in full swing", and the plant's management knows for sure that "nothing will come of this swarm in the near future ... ", therefore he is in no hurry to spend money on preparation of production of non-existent equipment. hi
                1. D16
                  D16 29 November 2020 14: 15
                  +1
                  Would you begin to allocate money in advance to create a production of an untested aircraft that exists in a 1: 7 scale model and for which there is still no engine or avionics? They will manage the pilot production of several boards for testing and certification. If everything burns out and the stars converge in the right phase, money will be allocated from the budget for the construction of production facilities. Do you really think that this experienced and informed person will run to the bank for a loan to build a steam locomotive ahead? wassat
                  1. Nazar
                    Nazar 29 November 2020 15: 19
                    0
                    D16 (Ilya) - so am I about the same! There is nothing and first of all there is no engine - that's what they write
                    not in some blog, but in the Military Industrial Courier:
                    “The long-voiced VK-800 engine has been expected for many years. It is intended to be installed on the Russian version of the L-410NG aircraft for local airlines, which will be assembled in Yekaterinburg. Without this long-awaited engine, the aircraft cannot be considered fully Russian and delivered to government customers.
                    The engine is also intended for the new most massive aircraft for local air transportation, replacing the legendary worker An-2.
                    However, if the creation of the engine goes on at the same snail's pace, then Mongolia will overtake us in this field. "
                    That is why the experienced and well-informed director of U-UAZ does not fuss.
                    Of course, the money will be allocated to him, but usually, to speed up the process, the plant ordered reconstruction projects for its own, then this amount was returned of course. And now this is not - a sure sign for the coming years no mass production is expected.
                    1. D16
                      D16 29 November 2020 17: 19
                      0
                      Of course, the money will be allocated to him, but usually, to speed up the process, the plant ordered reconstruction projects for its own, then this amount was returned of course.

                      Why will he be given money for construction before there are real test results?
                      However, if the creation of the engine goes on at the same snail's pace, then Mongolia will overtake us in this field. "

                      Has Mongolia started producing its own theaters long ago? SibNIA is moving its An-2 modernization project there. Well done, we found an investor.
                      Ulaanbaatar can enter the international market with a very competitive product that will definitely be in good demand.

                      What is the demand? Who needs these planes besides Mongolia? laughing The market for such aircraft is vanishingly small.
                      I live in Samara and communicate with people related to the production of NK-32-02. To be honest, after several accidents at the stand and messing around with the NK Engines management, I thought that the engine would never be brought to life. But no. Once the first motors were sent to Kazan. I think that one fine day VK-800S will be sent to the UZGA as routinely.
                      1. Nazar
                        Nazar 1 December 2020 04: 02
                        0
                        D16 - Mongolia is not under sanctions - you can buy and install any engine there hi
                        the same Honneveli, but where to sell a few pieces. planes - they will find, not in the hundreds they will release them there.
                      2. D16
                        D16 1 December 2020 18: 50
                        0
                        where to sell several pieces. planes - they will find, not in the hundreds they will release them there.

                        Blessed is he who believes. China is still producing Y-5s, and the market for such aircraft is vanishingly small.
                      3. Nazar
                        Nazar 2 December 2020 04: 04
                        0
                        D16 (Ilya) - You are right, the market for such machines is really "not wide", the same China makes no more than 10 of them a year. Our country needs hundreds of them. but if SibNIA will produce them in Mongolia, then I think, too, not in dozens of pieces. But importing them to Russia from Mongolia is unlikely to work - with imported equipment they will definitely fall under the re-export ban. But Asia is big, they will find someone to sell, the cost price will be lower than in the Russian Federation (taxes from the Mongols are not like ours), so they will play on the price and sell
                      4. Nazar
                        Nazar 2 December 2020 09: 11
                        0
                        D16 = Supplement - as a joke - here on VO today an article informing the US wants to buy the AN-2 laughing Demand is growing by leaps and bounds wassat
  • D16
    D16 28 November 2020 19: 37
    0
    Whose loot to cut? Private shareholders?

    Do you think someone was developing at their own expense? The question is not to SibNIA, but to those who hired them to develop the aircraft project, which, in principle, cannot be certified. What were you hoping for? lol
  • evgen1221
    evgen1221 28 November 2020 17: 41
    +5
    That's interesting to me too. Well, OK capitalism, such as declared competition, such as the buyer decides what is better, Well, make and sell! But apparently to stand violently and cut it is easier and more profitable.
    1. D16
      D16 28 November 2020 20: 00
      0
      Well, make and sell!

      To whom to sell something? Think companies that live in the state. donations have money for new planes? The paradox of the situation is that everyone knows that the An-2 needs to be replaced, but no one is ready to pay for the replacement.
      1. Doctor
        Doctor 28 November 2020 21: 15
        +2
        The paradox of the situation is that everyone knows that the An-2 needs to be replaced, but no one is ready to pay for the replacement.

        The question is about priorities.
        The billion that went to Syria - 400 (FOUR PANCAKES!) Cessna Caravan aircraft. fool
        1. D16
          D16 28 November 2020 22: 05
          +1
          The billion who went to Syria

          No wonder. It's warm in Syria. Money does not like the cold and tends to the south laughing .
  • Aviator_
    Aviator_ 28 November 2020 17: 29
    -6
    The case, of course, is necessary. But - whose dvigun will be there? And the dimensions are embarrassing - 2 passengers nevertheless climbed into the An-12, but this, it seems, like the Yak-12 will be, no more than three
    1. your1970
      your1970 28 November 2020 17: 43
      +4
      Quote: Aviator_
      this one, it looks like the Yak-12 will be, not more than three
      Do not read the article,? religion does not allow?
      "light multifunctional aircraft for nine passengers "
    2. loki565
      loki565 28 November 2020 17: 50
      +1
      9 passengers, now it seems like these are the requirements for single-engine aircraft, but the engine will also be less than 800hp.
      1. Ros 56
        Ros 56 28 November 2020 18: 05
        +2
        And who has such requirements for the number of people? An-2 like 12 and even more drove and nothing.
        1. D16
          D16 28 November 2020 18: 32
          -1
          And who has such requirements for the number of people?

          Have aviation regulations. This aircraft will not be certified as a passenger aircraft either in Europe or in America where these rules apply. In Russia as well.
          1. Ros 56
            Ros 56 28 November 2020 18: 40
            +7
            And why should we observe Western rules? You might think they with their Russophobic manners will buy these Baikals from us. An-2 with its seventy years of service has proved that these requirements were sucked out of the blue. I understand large planes, but we are not talking about them.
            1. D16
              D16 28 November 2020 20: 22
              -3
              Why should we follow Western rules?

              Once accepted, then you must observe. Express your grievances to those who accepted them. Cancel and do An-2 further. smile
              1. Ros 56
                Ros 56 29 November 2020 09: 50
                +1
                It would be my will and would do them further, but after deep modernization. He has proven himself very well in small aircraft. And the Swiss, and the reaper, and the gambler on the pipe, and how many pilots learned on it, God alone knows the archives. He could be repaired on his knee in the steppe, hands would grow from where needed. And all these rules were invented in defiance of us, they know, we have nothing to replace it, and they do not have such open spaces and distances as we have in Siberia and in the north.
                However, I got carried away, no one needs it.
        2. loki565
          loki565 28 November 2020 18: 47
          0
          They refer to the rules of AP23, I have not read them myself, I don’t know)))
          https://ru-aviation.livejournal.com/4094991.html
        3. Genry
          Genry 28 November 2020 18: 48
          0
          Quote: Ros 56
          And who has such requirements for the number of people? An-2 like 12 and even more drove and nothing.

          https://armak-iac.org/dokumenty/aviatsionnye-pravila/
          Civilian airworthiness standards light aircraft (AP-23)
          23.3 Airplane categories
          (a) Airplanes with no more than nine landing seats, excluding pilot seats, with a maximum certificated take-off weight of not more than 5700 kgf and intended for non-acrobatic use are in the normal category.
    3. Piramidon
      Piramidon 28 November 2020 18: 10
      +8
      Quote: Aviator_
      The case, of course, is necessary. But - whose dvigun will be there? And the dimensions are embarrassing - 2 passengers nevertheless climbed into the An-12, but this, it seems, like the Yak-12 will be, no more than three


      https://ru-aviation.livejournal.com/4094991.html
  • sedoj
    sedoj 28 November 2020 17: 30
    +8
    Why, when it comes to a pipe, is the picture constantly turned over?
    1. KCA
      KCA 28 November 2020 17: 40
      +5
      That is why the models are hung upside down in the pipe.
      1. Artavazdych
        Artavazdych 28 November 2020 19: 15
        -1
        As I understand it, there should be a downforce, not a lift
    2. JD1979
      JD1979 28 November 2020 17: 40
      +5
      Quote: sedoj
      Why, when it comes to a pipe, is the picture constantly turned over?

      This is not a picture upside down, but the model is hung upside down))
      1. sedoj
        sedoj 28 November 2020 17: 43
        +9
        Pardon Tady - I was wrong. "Sofa Analyst", you know.
    3. your1970
      your1970 28 November 2020 17: 45
      +3

      Now I don't know - in the 60s and 70s, the model was always blown upside down
      Quote: sedoj
      Why, when it comes to a pipe, is the picture constantly turned over?
      1. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 28 November 2020 20: 55
        +1
        Now I don't know - in the 60s and 70s, the model was always blown upside down

        Well, you know, now they also blow it on a belt scale all over the world. Backlash is selected.
    4. Aviator_
      Aviator_ 28 November 2020 21: 04
      +1
      Now look at the blue wind tunnel diffuser guard. This is a railing so that no one accidentally falls down. The original shot is correct.
  • evgen1221
    evgen1221 28 November 2020 17: 38
    +1
    Hmm. So it seems there is already some kind of replacement and for a long time it seems like it flies in metal. Or does each of our aviation companies want to make their own version and sell monopoly?
  • Doliva63
    Doliva63 28 November 2020 17: 42
    +3
    Well, we did. True, not an airplane, but a model, okay, but what is the result?
    1. Thunderbolt
      Thunderbolt 28 November 2020 17: 49
      -5
      Quote: Doliva63
      okay, what about the result?

      uav mte
  • Ros 56
    Ros 56 28 November 2020 18: 02
    -2
    Yeah, the Superjet has already been made, but will this one go to number two? What is there in it from ours, does anyone know for sure?
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 28 November 2020 18: 29
      +4
      The Superjet will become entirely Russian components in 2024 when the PD 8 engine is created.
      1. Ros 56
        Ros 56 28 November 2020 18: 34
        -3
        By number 2, I meant the new Bakal.
      2. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa 28 November 2020 20: 18
        -1
        Quote: Vadim237
        The Superjet will become entirely Russian components in 2024 when the PD 8 engine is created.

        AHA .. And about avionics and other electrical systems Grandfather Pikhto will think and get out from under the floor?
        1. Captain Nemo
          Captain Nemo 29 November 2020 16: 53
          +3
          If you fix all the jambs of the puperjet, the output will be Tu-334SM))). Now it is clear, judging by the flags in the picture, for whom Mansurovich and Pagansian worked ...
      3. Nazar
        Nazar 1 December 2020 03: 00
        +1
        Vadim237 - and after 2024 Rogozin will fly to Mars, Chirkov will build the aircraft carrier Storm and the destroyer Leader ... well, that is, unless of course the donkey, or the emir, or Khoja Nasreddin himself, will die by that time laughing
  • Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 28 November 2020 18: 15
    -2
    We need an unmanned version a la Azerbaijani and, by the way, on its base you can bungle a drone interceptor
    1. ul_vitalii
      ul_vitalii 28 November 2020 18: 40
      +2
      Quote: Krasnodar
      We need an unmanned version a la Azerbaijani and, by the way, on its base you can bungle a drone interceptor

      And who will harass tall grasshoppers and future butterflies through forests and fields wink Greetings buddy hi Well, on those snub-nosed ones, we would put our devices from a high slide. yes
      1. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 28 November 2020 18: 56
        0
        Greetings, glad to see on the site, the loss! hi ))
        So we will come up with a "special irrigation" for harmful insects laughing
  • Nazar
    Nazar 28 November 2020 18: 19
    +4
    The plane itself is flawed:
    1.In front of the cockpit, there is not a small engine hood, but at the start the aircraft stands with a high nose, that is, the pilot's view forward and downward is blocked, and this despite the fact that you need to take off from the ground and unprepared sites. How to do it without looking at the takeoff.
    2. One engine - but it is not, "straw" bed - "for the first time" laughing will deliver the import. That is, the Siberians cannot import imports, but the Urals can be cool. It is common practice for such aircraft to take auto-engines and put them on the aircraft after a little modification. In Russia there is such an auto-engine - Aurus. Two such engines on the wings (like Cessna's) would solve many issues, including an overview of the takeoff at the start and, most importantly, SAFETY!
    After all, what was written in the last article - backup electric motors 2 pcs, 100KW each ... can you imagine how much they weigh? yes, plus batteries for them - complete idiocy. Well, I won't write about the parachute on which the entire plane will descend, you can't use obscenities, but you can't do without a mat.
    AH2 flew like a glider with the engine off, but the second wing was removed and the glider will not work, therefore two engines are needed, if one fails, the second dvigun will save the plane.
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 28 November 2020 19: 41
      +2
      Well, on the other hand, this is research and experimental design work with an estimate. While the money is being given, at least the teleportator will be fastened there. The main thing is that R&D is going on. This is how it looks by the way.

    2. Doctor
      Doctor 28 November 2020 21: 01
      +1
      that's why two engines are needed, if one fails, the second dvigun will save the plane

      Fuel consumption is doubled at once. For a ten-seater, the loss to competitors is unambiguous.
      Approximate ruler for a range of approximately 1600 km (from St. Petersburg to Crimea).

      Cessna Skyhawk, 4 seats, 1 engine, 180 hp, 20 kg / flight hour.



      Cessna Caravan, 10 seats, 1 engine, 670 hp, 150 kg / flight hour.



      But 2 engines are growing at once:
      Cessna SkyCourier, 20 seats, 2 engines of 1100 hp, almost 600 kg / hour



      It's easier to drive two Caravans away.

      And don't forget, 737 will gobble up 2800 kg per hour. laughing
      1. akarfoxhound
        akarfoxhound 28 November 2020 22: 52
        0
        2800 per hour is cool! If you do not count on this for 150-180 passengers and flight time, right? wink
        1. Doctor
          Doctor 29 November 2020 01: 03
          0
          2800 per hour is cool! If you do not count on this for 150-180 passengers and flight time, right? wink

          Well if so. And if there are 30 passengers? And so every second flight?
          All sorts of aircraft are needed, all sorts are important!
          A complete line - from double to transcontinental.
          And preferably your own. love
      2. Nazar
        Nazar 29 November 2020 04: 15
        +1
        Arzt (Yuri) - "Fuel consumption is twice as fast" - This is not so. The fuel consumption of two engines of 400 hp will exceed the fuel consumption of one engine of 800 hp by very, very little. But for years to carry an extra ton of cargo (backup electric motors and batteries for them) - this, in your opinion, will not affect the economy of flights - eh? These are direct losses - instead of this ballast, it was possible to transfer commercial cargo and get money for it, but only extra fuel consumption.
        As for the pictures - your conclusion "But 2 engines immediately grow:", to put it mildly is not justified -
        1. Cessna Caravan, 10 seats, 1 engine, 670 hp, 150 kg / hour 150: 670 = 0,224 kg / hour for one HP.
        2. Cessna SkyCourier, 20 seats, 2 engines of 1100 hp, almost 600 kg / hour 600 \ 2200 = 0,272 kg / hour per one HP
        the difference is extremely small despite the fact that. Cessna SkyCourier is a different class car (20 seats) and fuel consumption grows exponentially as the aircraft gets heavier.
        And one more "detail" - All these planes in the pictures are equipped with a landing gear with a nose wheel, that is, at the start they stand exactly, which means that even in a single-engine version, the pilot has any forward and downward visibility.
        With respect, Igor.
        1. Orkraider
          Orkraider 29 November 2020 16: 32
          +1
          ... Regarding the pictures - your conclusion "But 2 engines are growing at once:", to put it mildly is not justified 1. Cessna Caravan, 10 seats, 1 engine, 670 hp, 150 kg / h 150: 670 = 0,224 kg / h for one HP.
          2. Cessna SkyCourier, 20 seats, 2 engines of 1100 hp, almost 600 kg / h 600 \ 2200 = 0,272 kg / h per one HP -

          Welcome.
          Your opponent was talking about commercial efficiency, and it is considered to be the expense divided by the number of people / cargo transported.
          Total:
          1: 150 = 10
          2: 600 = 20.

          So, he is right to write from his example:
          Fuel consumption in half at once
          1. Nazar
            Nazar 30 November 2020 01: 56
            0
            Orkraider (I) Good afternoon!

            670hp: 10 = 67hp per passenger; 2200hp: 20 = 110hp per passenger these are cars of different classes, hence the difference in fuel consumption.
            Initially, I wrote about replacing one 800hp engine with two 400hp engines - are you trying to convince me that this will double the fuel consumption? The increase will be, but extremely insignificant and it is compensated by the fact that you will not need to carry with you a constantly weighty emergency electric propulsion system, which is also additional. fuel consumption and + lost profits, instead of these email. engines and batteries, you can carry cargo and get paid for it.
            With respect, Igor.
            1. Orkraider
              Orkraider 30 November 2020 19: 33
              0
              Welcome.
              670hp: 10 = 67hp per passenger; 2200hp: 20 = 110hp. .. these are cars of different classes

              What's the difference in class when comparing fuel efficiency?
              And it was just about her, about commercial efficiency, which very much depends on fuel consumption, and not on the number of hp. per person. You are converted to hp accused the opponent
              in error
              .Your conclusion "But 2 engines immediately grow ... to put it mildly is not justified
              .
              It seems to me that you are wrong. The fuel efficiency of twin-engine comparable aircraft is lower than single-engine ones.
              The growth is based on the examples given, if you think they are wrong: give specific examples of aircraft brands, indicating the costs.

              About:
              about replacing one 800hp engine with two 400hp
              .
              What Russian engine do you offer, which produces 400 hp? and the weight will be equal to 1/2 VK-800? Moreover, the weight should be less than 1/2, but let's not talk about that.
              And VK-800, with due regard and interest in its appearance, will be delivered, and in the foreseeable horizon.


              And yes, if it is still possible to install emf on this wing without major changes (which I doubt, to be honest), then do you seriously think that it is possible to install an internal combustion engine on it without redesigning?


              there will be no need to carry with you a constantly weighty emergency electric propulsion system

              I agree with this., IMHO, the an-2 is operated without all this, and the new aircraft will have higher reliability than the old people who are forced to fly
              1. Nazar
                Nazar 1 December 2020 03: 14
                +1
                Orkraider - Hello!) About the engine: This is what the Military Industrial Courier writes
                (Vl. Volgin from September 29):
                “The long-voiced VK-800 engine has been expected for many years. It is designed to be installed on the Russian version of the L-410NG aircraft for local airlines, which will be assembled in Yekaterinburg. Without this long-awaited engine, the aircraft cannot be considered fully Russian and delivered to government customers.
                The engine is also intended for the new most massive aircraft for local air transportation, replacing the legendary worker An-2.
                However, if the creation of the engine goes on at the same snail's pace, then Mongolia will overtake us in this field. "
                Why Mongolia? Yes, it's just that SibNIA, with such an attitude towards their work in the Russian Federation, is now working together with the Mongols and they can really succeed with such an aircraft even earlier and better than UZGA.
              2. Nazar
                Nazar 1 December 2020 03: 54
                0
                Orkraider - I will continue - on the engine - In the Russian Federation, one auto-engine Aurus 500 hp has already been converted into an aviation one, it turned out quite acceptable, and UZGA is aware of this.
                Regarding the alteration of the wing structure - and it will have to be done this way - just install the mounts for the motors - only electric ones (the diagram is higher for donavi49).
                In terms of fuel efficiency, yes, one 800 hp engine consumes less fuel than two 400 hp engines, but not by much and definitely not "twice". For that, it will not be necessary to carry the ballast of the electric propulsion system for years - the carrying capacity will be added, and this is additional. income.
                For safety - the quote "An-2 is operated without all this," - so An2 LETAL is like a glider with an inoperative engine and that is why it was made a bi-plan! UZGA craftsmen removed the second wing - that's it, the "glider" was gone. And therefore there must be two engines.
                No, well, they also wrote about the parachute, and seriously wassat - for UZGA, apparently this is an "option"
    3. ycuce234-san
      ycuce234-san 29 November 2020 18: 00
      0
      How to do it without looking at the takeoff.

      Television system with cameras and video processors. They have been used in military aircraft for many decades and it would be high time for them to be used in the civilian sphere as well - as satellites for broadcasting television.
      You can even make a virtual cockpit with an augmented reality helmet. It makes no sense to simply make an analogue of the AN-2, without stepping a step higher and not providing along the way orders for our own electronics industry. Therefore, let them invent parachutes and try electric movement ...
  • askort154
    askort154 28 November 2020 18: 21
    +14
    New aircraft LMS-901, developed to replace the An-2,

    This is already the "eleventh" attempt, but it is in the "attempt" stage and dies.
    It is stupid to cram modern "aircraft products" into the parameters of the An-2.
    An-2 is "Kalashnikov" in the light-engine aviation of the 20th century in the USSR, and in a dozen countries. Before his death Antonov said that the best plane that I have created in my life turned out to be An-2!

    To replace the legendary An-2 "Corn".

    This "nickname" was given to him by people not versed in aviation. Sticky (brand)
    "Cornfield" originally carries the Po-2 after its successful landing in a cornfield due to engine failure. When the Po-2 biplane left the "air scene", a new, more serious biplane, An-2, appeared. And the ordinary media, seeing there "4 wings" and here, flying in the sky, automatically began to call the "maize", and An-2, which ran around the pilots flying on it. They called him affectionately - "annushka", or simply "anton". I had to fly on it, and on "wheels", and on "skis", and on "floats". Antonov is right - the plane is a legend in its class. From any "non-staff", he always came out with honor in "strong hands." (Hugging the sky, with strong arms, the pilot is gaining altitude) He was the first step in the "Big Aviation". There is no such thing. They can immediately board the Boeing from the "school desk". And this is not the same romance. There was no replacement for the An-2, and there will not be, as an individual.
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 28 November 2020 18: 57
      +2
      I thought because I irrigated the corn fields))
  • senima56
    senima56 28 November 2020 18: 40
    +4
    "The Ministry of Industry and Trade has abandoned the single-engine TVS-2021DTS Baikal aircraft, which was planned for serial production in 2." - and what kind of aircraft is being "blown through" in the pipe, isn't it a single-engine one ?! So it was worth building a garden when there is already a flying TVS-2DTS "Baikal"? Or "history repeats itself": there was a flying Tu-334, but someone "very smart" decided to make an "airplane from scratch", entrusting it to a firm ("Sukhoi"), which never (!!!) made civilian aircraft! So we are disentangling the failed SSJ project! The enemy is sitting deeply in the government and ruining the attempts to revive our aircraft industry!
    1. Aviator_
      Aviator_ 28 November 2020 21: 00
      +8
      there was a Tu-334 flying, but someone "very smart" decided to make an "airplane from scratch"

      This "smart" - the current rector of MAI Poghosyan, naturally, having enlisted the support from above, killed the Tu-334. Then, when he built an unnecessary UAC building in Zhukovsky (it still stands empty), he was kicked out, and he became the rector of MAI.
      1. Igoresha
        Igoresha 28 November 2020 21: 32
        +2
        and he became the rector of MAI.
        "cadres decide everything" (c)
        1. Aviator_
          Aviator_ 28 November 2020 22: 15
          +4
          "cadres decide everything" (c)

          Well, yes, what a table is - so is a chair (proverb of doctors). Poghosyan did not even have the title of associate professor at the time of his appointment.
    2. nobody75
      nobody75 28 November 2020 21: 26
      -1
      The enemy is sitting deeply in the government and is ruining the attempts to revive our aircraft industry!

      Sure? But I remember a different story ...
      In the early 90s, at the end of the scoop, the Sukhoi Su-27 design bureau began to carry it to air shows. And an American businessman showed up with a Businessjet project under the Su brand ... That's where the Superjet roots grow.
      Sincerely
  • Max Lebedev
    Max Lebedev 28 November 2020 19: 15
    +18
    Need a cheap car in a large series
    1. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 28 November 2020 20: 12
      0
      Quote: Max Lebedev
      Need a cheap car in a large series

      Who needs it? Where will its demand be announced? How many remote villages are left in the country, where do people still live and where do they work there?
      I'll tell you honestly, I don't believe that the country needs (desperately) replacement of the An-2. We have no work left for such equipment, no tasks. which it would carry out against the budget appropriation.
      I am bitterly stating the fact that in the field of high technologies, engine building, machine tool building, the country will soon be unable to compete with someone else, and even to repeat what has been created there will not be enough power or skills. And any engineer trained at the HSE can say:
  • John22
    John22 28 November 2020 20: 04
    +5
    The promising light multipurpose aircraft LMS-901 "Baikal", in principle, cannot replace the An-2. An-2 is a flying shed - a car for transporting people, cargo and animals on local airlines - this is our life. Realizing this, Antonov chose a biplane scheme with the most powerful mechanization of the wings, but how else to take off and land on the minimum area. In the Russian Federation and now there is no developed network of airfields, but those that were sold and built up. Only by repeating the An-2 scheme and using modern materials and technologies can an analogue of "Annushka" be created, which will be cost-effective, reliable and durable. Two engines can be placed on the upper wing, the nose wheel will prevent bonnetting and the pilot's view will be excellent. I think so.
    1. Igoresha
      Igoresha 28 November 2020 21: 35
      +4
      the people of beggars will not fly between the lonely villages scattered across the taiga; it was in the USSR that civil aviation rolled grandmothers with goats and sacks of potatoes back and forth along the Yenisei (kingdom of heaven and many thanks to the pilot Ershov for a couple of books)
      1. Sergej1972
        Sergej1972 29 November 2020 00: 21
        0
        It seems that in Yakutia, small aircraft are used quite intensively.
        1. faiver
          faiver 29 November 2020 01: 32
          +3
          Not like, but really, the distances are long, the roads are worthless, after the rains there is a complete atas

          and Yakutia is 17% of the country's territory, it is coal, gas, oil, diamonds, gold and much more ...
    2. mark1
      mark1 29 November 2020 06: 19
      0
      Quote: John22
      Two engines can be installed on the upper fender,

      You can put a spark in the nose (for example, from VK-650) on one gearbox, like on a helicopter.
    3. Captain Nemo
      Captain Nemo 29 November 2020 17: 10
      0
      The promising light multipurpose aircraft LMS-901 "Baikal", in principle, cannot replace the An-2. An-2 is a flying shed - a car for transporting people, cargo and animals on local airlines - this is our life. Realizing this, Antonov chose a biplane scheme with the most powerful mechanization of the wings, but how else to take off and land on the minimum area. In the Russian Federation and now there is no developed network of airfields, but those that were sold and built up. Only by repeating the An-2 scheme and using modern materials and technologies can an analogue of "Annushka" be created, which will be cost-effective, reliable and durable. Two engines can be placed on the upper wing, the nose wheel will prevent bonnetting and the pilot's view will be excellent. I think so.

      - And you will get the An-28 with motors from the much-needed shock UAVs. By the way, the only Soviet-designed aircraft in service with the US Army.
  • APASUS
    APASUS 28 November 2020 20: 10
    +4
    Whose engine will it be? Is it possible to mass produce such an engine? How maintainable is it for small rural airfields?
    There are more than a hundred questions, and given that the problem of replacing the An-2 did not arise yesterday and has been dragging on for 30 years, there is no point in discussing this project. Tomorrow another plane will be on the agenda, just another official will be replaced!
    1. Captain Nemo
      Captain Nemo 29 November 2020 17: 12
      0
      Engines are similar to UAVs, the state will have to expand the production of these engines anyway.
      1. APASUS
        APASUS 30 November 2020 08: 56
        +1
        Quote: Captain Nemo
        Engines are similar to UAVs, the state will have to expand production of these engines anyway

        And the planes are needed and the engines will have to be produced by ourselves, well, this process is very much tied to the individual. Another official can speed up this process or bury
  • 7,62h54
    7,62h54 28 November 2020 23: 11
    0
    The case is a pipe
  • Konnick
    Konnick 28 November 2020 23: 29
    +4
    Quote: Igoresha
    the people of beggars will not fly between the lonely villages scattered across the taiga; it was in the USSR that civil aviation rolled grandmothers with goats and sacks of potatoes back and forth along the Yenisei (kingdom of heaven and many thanks to the pilot Ershov for a couple of books)

    Yes, before, in almost every regional center of the USSR there was an airport for An-2. Flights from regional centers were regular.
    Airplanes have always been designed around the engine, but now they will create a digital model, and then they start looking for engines. To replace the An-2, a biplane is needed, because of the lower takeoff and landing speed for the possibility of landing on an unprepared site.
  • faiver
    faiver 29 November 2020 01: 37
    +1
    Tired of these dances with tambourines, can't we make the engine ourselves? Well, it's high time to just buy a production license and not reinvent another bicycle ...
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 29 November 2020 10: 42
      +3
      First, there are problems with engines at all stages - from small ones for UAVs to the largest ones. On the eagle, for example, the Japanese stand from Saito.

      Secondly, the license is not sold.
      1. faiver
        faiver 29 November 2020 11: 01
        +2
        if they don't sell, then it's stupid to copy, one hell of a sanction
  • Semenov Andrey
    Semenov Andrey 29 November 2020 15: 09
    +1
    Under the current leadership of the industry (UEC), there are no new engines and will never be. And Himself 146 and PD-14 are a disgrace to the engine building.
  • abc_alex
    abc_alex 29 November 2020 16: 37
    +3
    With the replacement of the An-2, the problem is not at all technical. And don't blame the designers for the "simple" theme. It's not about them. It's about the economy. Or rather, in the purchase price and the price of small aircraft services. The fact is that none of today's An-2 operators bought new aircraft at market prices. They got the cars either on the basis of write-off or after deduction of depreciation, either for free at all, and as a result of numerous "reforms". As a result, a market for small aircraft services has developed. In the prices in this market, there are no costs for buying a new aircraft. There are running costs and repairs. Everything. Repair of An-2 by aviation standards costs a penny.
    Now imagine what a jump in prices for small aircraft services will be if you force operators to buy a new plane. It's not cheap, I think it's no less than a million dollars. And they will have to be recaptured within a reasonable period, not 50 years. So, on the market there are simply no buyers of services for such a price. Yes, there will be enough all kinds of Gazprom and Rosneft for a hundred boards. And that's all. Kirdyk.
    On this, production can be curtailed.

    If we want to replace the An-2, we need to reduce the price of the new aircraft to 3-5 million rubles. It's not really waaappshe unless you pass 90% of the price to someone else. The state, for example.
    1. Dmitry Leontiev
      Dmitry Leontiev 30 November 2020 13: 45
      0
      The state, for example, can lease aircraft to air carriers.
      1. abc_alex
        abc_alex 2 December 2020 02: 14
        0
        Leasing is essentially the same loan. I'm not talking about where the money can be taken, but that the customers of small aircraft services simply won't bring aircraft owners million dollar profit for the sane period. And we are talking about profit, not revenue.
  • Alexander Vorontsov
    Alexander Vorontsov 29 November 2020 18: 55
    0
    And he's handsome. It is strange that an inverted photo of the layout was inserted into the topic ...
  • Strannik_GO
    Strannik_GO 30 November 2020 12: 39
    0
    Yes, but did you have your own "home-grown" engines, control systems, modern materials for the fuselage? Everything that was offered was with the use of foreign components - and this is a road to nowhere, especially for an actual aircraft for internal use. That the fate of the superjet has not taught anything?
    I do not perceive people who thoughtlessly contributed to the collapse of a self-sufficient country, and now with "foam in their mouth" demanding from the "fragment of a shipwreck" to continue to sail further at the same pace.
  • Dmitry Leontiev
    Dmitry Leontiev 30 November 2020 13: 34
    0
    What, interestingly, does this new aircraft imply a minimum landing speed? Probably anyway higher than that of a biplane.

    And for a mass aircraft, I believe, the main indicator is precisely the minimum landing speed - so that in the event of any refusals, the passengers have the maximum chances of survival.

    And to achieve this safe minimum speed (well, say, 60 km / h or even less), at which one could even crash into a tree and stay alive, it is even worth worsening any other performance of the car - if necessary; - because here we are talking about security in mass use.

    The biplane, in my opinion, just gives such an acceptable landing speed - despite the fact that it also has a high carrying capacity. At the same time, its wingspan is not very large - which means it does not require a lot of parking space and a wide strip.