The aircraft LMS-2 "Baikal" created to replace the An-901 was tested in a wind tunnel

The promising light multipurpose aircraft LMS-901 "Baikal", created to replace the Soviet aircraft An-2, was "blown" in the wind tunnel of the TsAGI im. Zhukovsky. The studies were carried out by order of OOO Baikal-Engineering.

Tests in the T-102 wind tunnel of TsAGI passed a model of the aircraft, made on a scale of 1: 7. At the first stage, tests were carried out at air flow rates from 25 to 50 meters per second. A simulator of a working power plant was used on the model. Experts determined the total aerodynamic characteristics of the aircraft and the effectiveness of its controls. The tests will continue.

The new LMS-901 aircraft, being developed to replace the An-2, is 12,2 meters long, 3,7 meters high and has a wingspan of 16,5 meters. The maximum takeoff weight is 4,8 tons, and the speed is up to 300 km/h. The maximum flight range is 3 thousand km. The aircraft is being created using a modular design, which will allow it to be converted into a cargo or passenger version.

In the summer of 2019, the Ministry of Industry and Trade announced a competition for the development of a light multifunctional aircraft for nine passengers to replace the legendary An-2 "Corn". The winner was LLC "Baikal-Engineering" - a subsidiary of the Ural plant of civil aviation.

At the same time, the Ministry of Industry and Trade abandoned the planned for serial production in 2021 of the single-engine TVS-2DTS "Baikal" aircraft, developed by the Siberian Research Institute of Aviation on the basis of "Kukuruznik", all its developments went to the creation of the LMS-901 "Baikal".

Comments

[bessmertniy]

It's good that a new workhorse is being prepared, which will replace the famous maize. But AN-2 is a lump of our history.

[Borik]

Replacing "Annushka" is long overdue, but how long to wait for her? This gimp has been going on for 20 years. During this time, there were 5-6 quite competitive cars to replace the AN-2, but not one of them never went into production. That money was not for some other reason.

[Alexfly]

This gimp has been going on for 40 years

[Grits]

Quote: AlexFly

This gimp has been going on for 40 years

This gimp is called - shame on our aircraft designers and our aircraft factories. Our grandfathers, who created the "corncob" and riveted it like slippers, simply grin at modern specialists and shake their heads in bewilderment.

[Nazar]

Gritsa - Factories have nothing to do with it, I live in Ulan-Ude, and I know for sure - there will be a project, there will be components, the factory will assemble this airplane without any problems.
But you wrote correctly about the "designers" - this is really a shame, and even engine building should also be mentioned - there is no engine for the corn machine in the country and in the near future it is not visible.

[Grits]

Quote: Nazar

Gritsa - The factories have nothing to do with it, I live in Ulan-Ude, and I know for sure - there will be a project, there will be components, the plant will assemble this aircraft without problems

Well if that's the case. But something tells me that at our aircraft factories not everything is in order with modern technologies, with modern equipment and, most importantly, with trained personnel. I would like to be wrong.

[Nazar]

Gritsa - U-UAZ is headed not by a lawyer and a manager - here is also a Soviet director with a specialized engineering education and vast experience.
The plant now specializes in the production and overhaul of Mil family helicopters, practically all modifications from the repair of basic MI-8 to the release of the latest MI-17 (1) models of various modifications. Products are made both for the Ministry of Defense and for the Ministry of Emergencies, and a lot is exported, so with technology, machine park and qualifications of workers, everything is normal.
A 9-seater plane is an order of magnitude easier to manufacture than a modern helicopter - it will be produced quickly ... there would be something to produce, but here is a complete poppa

[Sling cutter]

Quote: Nazar

A 9-seater plane is an order of magnitude easier to manufacture than a modern helicopter - it will be produced quickly ... there would be something to produce, but here is a complete poppa

About 15 years ago, an old test pilot told me that if everything goes in the same spirit, we will lose our domestic aviation. And recently I listened to an interview with Svetlana Kapanina and realized that we are losing aviation forever.
Our industrial department can no longer release a sports plane.

[Alexfly]

There was a crude TVD-20 engine at one time, I think, and where is it? It was a bit crude, they could have brought it up to scratch in 40 years..... Yes, and the AN-2 would fly today on octane gasoline, only its production in Russia was closed for "environmental reasons".... In Poland, then, it is possible, but in Russia no-no...

[Serpet]

A localized L-2 was also offered to replace the AN-410 - the same is a good option by the way

[Boa kaa]

Quote: Serpet

The localized L-2 was also offered to replace the AN-410.

It's time to stop rake dancing! (from)
Or hasn't the Superjet story taught you anything? They might sell it, but with spare parts they might end up with a bummer, like what happened with the Jet... The Czechs are so "grateful" that they even tear down monuments to our marshals. And that's not the limit... NATO will do something else and -- they will! Uncle Sam will order it, and they will tuck their overcoats into their pants... Because that's NATO!
Therefore, you need to have your own avia-savraska, which you can feed with hay instead of selected oats.

[Antifreeze]

Quote: Boa constrictor KAA

the story of the Superjet has taught nothing

The man says - localized. And if the glider is from the Czech Republic, then of course you don't need

[bayard]

The plant was bought out and transported to the Urals, where they are going to collect.
But!
No engine.
And for "Kukuruznik" too - there is no engine.
And for the Ansat and Ka-226 helicopters, too - there are no engines.
There are no engines for the long-awaited Ka-62.
And for the Be-200.
And for the "Super-Jet" there is no engine of its own.
And for the Mi-26, too, there is NO engine.
But for the Il-76MD90A there is an engine ... but there are no aircraft in serial production (namely serial production, not piece production).
... The propulsion curse of modern Russian aviation.
But they promised that these engines (for "Ansat", Ka-226, L-410, Ka-62) by the end of the year ... will appear. In production. In finished products.
Apparently "kovid" knocked down.

[Elturisto]

There are no engines for ships and for the Tu-160 and for the Tu-22 and for drones.

[bayard]

For Tu-160 and Tu-22M3M engines have already appeared and the first batch was not only transferred to the plant, but also delivered. But the number and pace are not yet great.
But with engines for unmanned vehicles, yes ... sadness ...
And for the Il-112, Il-114 with engines, not everything is all right either - they are damp.
... And they would have taken Zaporozhye in 2014, and they would not have known grief.
And for "Ruslans" they would not know grief.
And for the Be-200.
And for ... the entire line of civil and military transport helicopters and aircraft.
... And if then Nikolayev was also taken, then they would not know grief with the power plant for the ships.
But Solntseliky raised taxes, prices, carried out a pension reform, jumped into a bunker, got up from his knees in a different position and periodically sings tales about terrible missiles, along which we are "ahead of the planet" ...
... "Sarmat" meanwhile does not fly ...
But everyone is already afraid of him.

[Sergej1972]

Nevertheless, no one, including Russia's opponents, has any doubts that the Sarmat will be adopted.

[bayard]

The main thing is for him to fly.
Just one single time to start.
With a full-cycle flight - with training BB, with the defeat of targets on the Kura, without serious system failures.
It is a very complex rocket, and the Makeeva Design Bureau has never built heavy rockets. Her SLBMs were all light class. And they even created Typhoon in close cooperation with the Yuzhnoye Design Bureau and the Pavlograd Mechanical Plant.
Just look at HOW MANY unsuccessful launches of the P-36 preceded the success? How many flaws were revealed during such unsuccessful launches? And only after summarizing all this experience and correcting all the mistakes, the rocket still flew and became the basis of our Strategic Missile Forces in the heavy class.
"Sarmat" is the same R-36M2 with a new upgrade and from a new manufacturer. Therefore, the Makeev Design Bureau has yet to go all the way of trials, mistakes and failures.
For not a single launch of this rocket has yet been made (throwing does not count). And how long it will take to bring it up to condition is completely ... not clear ... Yuzhnoye Design Bureau cannot be connected to cooperation ...
In 2014, Russia had a chance to make the Yuzhnoye design bureau again Russian ... It was simply necessary to take advantage of the request of the president of the former Ukraine to provide military (or just force) assistance in eliminating the consequences of the fascist coup.
This chance was not used.
This is bad for everyone.
... And the rocket does not fly.
Hopefully bye.

[Titus_2]

Sorry .... your comments are always interesting and relevant, but at this moment I got confused .... it seems not about the rocket discussion

[bayard]

This was in response to a previous comment:

Quote: Sergej1972

Nevertheless, no one, including Russia's opponents, has any doubts that the Sarmat will be adopted.

[Andrei Nikolaevich]

Yeah... And we gather Armenians under our wings before Moldovans. And what the hell for?! And Yuzhmash, Nikolaev and Zaporozhye - we screwed up. What idiocy.

[Elturisto]

yes appeared on paper ...

[iouris]

Quote: bayard

No engine.

To "no" and no trial.
This story is too long-running. The replacement of the An-2 is being prepared for fifty years.
An-2 is irreplaceable!

[bayard]

So you have to buy them in China.
China has no problems with engines for An-2 ...

[Grits]

Quote: bayard

... The propulsion curse of modern Russian aviation.

We have a propulsion curse not only in aviation. And also in shipbuilding, in the automotive industry, in the motorcycle industry.
... Although, there is no motor building as such at all. Why do we need an engine if no motorcycles, no motorized carriages, no motor scooters, no mopeds, no scooters, no motorbikes are built in Russia. There are even no domestic engines for mowers, chainsaws, walk-behind tractors and other little things.

[Nazar]

Gritsa (Alexander) - There is such a joke:
"Before the revolution, there was a church and a roadside pub in our village. The Bolsheviks came, opened a library in the church, closed the pub, built a school and a clinic. The democrats came - closed the library, "optimized" the school and the clinic, and now in our village there is a church and a roadside pub..."
What I mean - until 1917. in the Russian Empire, NOT a SINGLE (!) internal combustion engine was produced. All these cars like "Russo-Balt" or planes of the same Sikorsky are all imported.
Now the Russian Federation is confidently returning to the same, for that is, "a church and a roadside tavern.

[Sling cutter]

Quote: Nazar

Now the Russian Federation is confidently returning to the same, for that is, "a church and a roadside tavern.

The main thing is that there is a king who “raised the rock of all.”

[ihnovich990]

Well, yes, well, yes. Only it will never go into production, just like TVS with which they have been worn for 10 years, but things are still there.

[Nazar]

Serpet -1. machines of different classes
2.L-410 from an unprepared area is not a flyer
3. There is no engine - the L-410 is imported, according to our orders, government agencies (the same Ministry of Emergency Situations) should not buy such a product. They plan VK-800 both for Elka and the mythical Baikal, but only this dvigun has been "developed" and developed for several years now, and in Russia this process can last for decades

[for]

Quote: Borik

Replacement of "Annushka" is long overdue

The replacement has already been, AN-14 Pchelka, but for some reason went

[iouris]

An-14 is not a replacement for An-2.

[for]

Quote: iouris

An-14 is not a replacement for An-2.

But as the pilots of that time said, a replacement. Then this one doesn't look like a replacement either.

[Dima68]

There is no engine of its own, therefore a gimp.

[ul_vitalii]

Quote: bessmertniy

It's good that a new workhorse is being prepared, which will replace the famous maize. But AN-2 is a lump of our history.

I agree with the significance of its predecessor, but a new workhorse, yes, on our abandoned farmlands, woodlands
etc. etc. How many do you need? Can Yakubovich be put at the wheel? Enough for him to lead one of the fields of miracles.

[Boris Chernikov]

if there is demand, there will be supply

[Telakh]

Tales of the peoples of the world.

[businessv]

Quote: bessmertniy

It's good that a new workhorse is being prepared, which will replace the famous maize. But AN-2 is a lump of our history.

Yeah, I was ready for a long time, but something went wrong!

Why is the new version better? Unclear!

[bayard]

Quote: businessv

Why is the new version better? Unclear!

New budget.

[Aerodrome]

[quote] 0
Well, yes, well, yes. Only it will never go into production, just like TVS with which they have been worn for 10 years, but things are still there.
Reply
Quote
A complaint
for
for (Nothing personal, just my opinion)
Yesterday, 19: 51
[/ Quote]
+1
[quote] Quote: Borik
Replacement of "Annushka" is long overdue

The replacement has already been, AN-14 Pchelka, but for some reason went
Reply
Quote
A complaint
iouris
iouris (iouris)
Today, 00: 50
[/ Quote]
0
[quote] The An-14 is not a replacement for the An-2.
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Quote
A complaint
Dima68
Dima68 (Dmitry)
Yesterday, 21: 29
[/ Quote]
0
[Quote] There is no engine of its own, therefore a gimp.
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Quote
A complaint
ul_vitalii
cough ... cough ... (clearing his throat for an old man ...) jelmens, what I want to say ... let's look at the "manufacturer", maybe many questions will disappear. [quote] [/ quote]. [quote]. COMMUNITY WITH "BAIKAL-ENGINEERING" LIMITED LIABILITY
Operating organization

1190327002953
from 22 February 2019
INN / KPP
0326566225
773401001
Registration Date
22.02.2019
Authorized capital
10 000 rub.
All requisites (FTS / PFR / FSS / ROSSTAT)
Legal address
123308, Moscow, Marshal Zhukov Avenue, building 1, building 1, floor / pom / room 2 / I / 27
Managing organization
JOINT STOCK COMPANY "URAL CIVIL AVIATION PLANT"
from 20 February 2020
Average number
14 employees (2019)[/quote] Well, hooray for the small aviation?

[bayard]

[quote = Airfield] Average headcount
14 employees (2019) [/ quote] how cho, urya small Oviation? [/ Quote]
Pra-and-achechnaya.

[Nazar]

Airfield - as they say "the court is clear" - the next horns and hooves, or "Sawmill named after Manturov"

[Boris Chernikov]

monoplane made .. it's better

[businessv]

Quote: Boris Chernikov

monoplane made .. it's better

Well - well, well, justify why this monoplane is better than a biplane ?! Only reasonedly, not "I think so"!

[Looking for]

it will be shit. not a new horse. Mark my words.

[loki565]

Blow, do not blow, you will still get Cessna Caravan))) The main question is whose engine, this is what ruined TVS-2DTS "Baikal

[mark1]

Quote: loki565

this is what destroyed TVS-2DTS "Baikal

Mr. Manturov ruined it because of his ardent love for the UZGA, everything else was decided at the same time (or less).

[loki565]

Mr. Manturov ruined it because of his ardent love for the UZGA, everything else was decided at the same time (or less).

And what kind of engine to put on it? Currently, developing an aircraft for an American engine is not an idea, and biplane will lose in terms of speed and fuel efficiency.

[major071]

At the first stage, the General Electric H901-80 engine will be installed on the LMS-200, this is an updated Czech-made Walter M601. In the future, it should be replaced by the "Klimovsky" VK-800. Also, at the first stage, imported avionics of the Garmin or Honeywell type will be used, followed by replacement with Russian equipment, and the same Hartzell propeller.

[lelik613]

It is reasonable to assume that with the choice of this engine the car will not survive the first stage. They will buy or steal one engine, but when moving to series production they will block the supply.

[D16]

At the first stage, the General Electric H901-80 engine will be installed on the LMS-200

The first stage meant the first board in order to start testing. Again, if suddenly some Papuan wants to purchase this pepelats with an American engine, this option has already been worked out.

[Nazar]

major071 - How did you write - "at the first stage"? This "stage" will last 15-20 years, won't it?
And read about the VK-800, if not laziness, in the Military Industrial Courier for September 29, 2020, the article by Vladimir Volgin "There were no commands to take off."
A very interesting article, specifically about the VK-800 there, towards the end of the subtitle "Another poor student".

[mark1]

When the concept was being developed, there was an idea to use engines purchased on the secondary market (there are a lot of them, they are cheap, somewhere around 200-300 thousand dollars, and they are not subject to sanctions) with the prospect of replacing them with domestic ones as they are ready. The option of installing two VK-650 was also proposed.
The development of UZGA assumes a smaller volume of the fuselage with a slightly higher carrying capacity, which is not very good for a cargo-passenger aircraft.

[Stirbjorn]

Quote: mark1

Mr. Manturov ruined it because of his ardent love for the UZGA, everything else was decided at the same time (or less).

I agree. Even if TVS-2DTS "Baikal" is not suitable, then it should have been modified by the Siberian Research Institute, and not by the Ural plant. Here the competencies are absolutely different

[ism_ek]

UZGA is a production base, test benches. While the Tu-154s were flying, the plant was well re-equipped. Well, the helicopter theme also keeps the plant afloat, but the capacity and scientific potential are underutilized.
Siberian Research Institute is the legacy of the USSR

[Nazar]

ism_ek (Ilya) - UZGA - assembly shop, "screwdriver" with personnel of the appropriate qualifications.

[ism_ek]

You at least have opened the site UZGA. In the late 70s, the plant was engaged in servicing Kuznetsov's engines. Bulkhead, troubleshooting, coating restoration, blade manufacturing, testing. Since the mid-90s, he also began to repair Ukrainian engines and gearboxes for helicopters.
The assembly of drones is a separate, not the main production.

[Genry]

Quote: loki565

The main question is whose engine, this is what destroyed TVS-2DTS "Baikal"

Ruined by an ancient structure using expensive composites and non-compliance with the requirements of AP-23.

[Captain Nemo]

The ancient An-2 has a very rational design. But the TVS-2DTS has a biplane design without struts and braces - this is a miracle of miracles, as a result of which the design is hugely overweight. The expensive composite did not even save it. They started an airplane for the government services of rich countries, but they need an apparatus for poor semi-colonies.
When creating a replacement for the An-2, you need to dance from the stove - a massive cheap motor produced at state-owned factories under the supervision of the state with honest and competent officials. Therefore, for now ---- x ------------- b ----------- n ----, "do not give us order in the tank forces as our ears" ...

[figwam]

Quote: loki565

Blow it, don't blow it

Everything grows from An-2.

[D16]

Only the fuselage is smaller and the wing is completely different. And so one to one ... But seriously, what else is there to invent? Give it to those. assignment to some Brazilian Embraer, and the exit will be outwardly the same plane.

[Alien From]

In the 21st century, looking for a replacement for AN 2 .... this is utopia!

[RUSS]

Quote: Alien From

In the 21st century, looking for a replacement for AN 2 .... this is utopia!

This is not a utopia, this is Russia!

[Vadim237]

It would be better instead to create a high-speed helicopter in terms of capacity and carrying capacity like the Mi 38.

[Alien From]

Pay attention to the minusers, it's ridiculous!

[Telakh]

Your incredibly competent opinion attracts them.

[Alien From]

And not only to me)))

[Captain Nemo]

The cost of a flight hour of a helicopter and a light aircraft is incomparable.

[Mishanya74_2]

Great news ... Model 1/7 has been tested.

[RUSS]

Quote: Mishanya74_2

Great news ... Model 1/7 has been tested.

Based on the real world in civil aviation, "blowing" the corn 2.0 will soon be an achievement.

[Thunderbolt]

Russia is the leader in aerodynamics. And what about the engine for such wonderful machines?

[Thrifty]

This is the kind of show we have - instead of solving the problem, they are engaged in imitation of vigorous activity, "mastering" money, and not producing results! After all, an airplane was created, and apparently not even one, to replace the An-2! ​​Who was not satisfied with what, why did the airplanes not "take to the skies"? The desire to continue sawing off the money, and not doing work for the result! !!

[KCA]

Whose loot to cut? Private shareholders? All these crafts for AN-2 were made by private companies from imported components, including engines and all avionics, of course, in the current conditions, no one needs all these options

[Nazar]

KCA - UZGA received money from the budget - Manturov's bribed structure

[D16]

Manturovskaya lured structure

God forbid there are more such lured structures that are slowly doing their job.

[Nazar]

D16 (Ilya) And there are quite a few of them - starting with Rusnano, Skolkovo, and further down the list of different stripes and scales, and all of them are "slowly doing their job"

[D16]

And there are already quite a few of them - starting with Rusnano, Skolkovo, and further down the list of different suits

You would all be one size fits all. Something I have not heard that Skolkovo or Rusnano would slowly assemble and develop aircraft or repair gas turbine engines. UZGA does the job, in contrast to the above.

[Nazar]

D16 - At the aircraft plant in our city, it seems like they will have to serially produce this aircraft.
And for this, production areas are usually prepared in advance. I am a civil engineer, retired, but I am aware of what is being built (or going to build) at this plant - they regularly turn to me for advice. I can say for sure - today even the project documentation (for construction work) for this case has not been ordered, but it will take two years for the auction and for the project itself, and the same amount for the auction for construction work and for the work itself.
Why is that ? Yes, because the director of the plant is a very experienced and well-informed person, it is easy to convince you and me with beautiful pictures and articles that "work is in full swing", and the plant's management knows for sure that "nothing will come of this swarm in the near future ... ", therefore he is in no hurry to spend money on preparation of production of non-existent equipment.

[D16]

Would you begin to allocate money in advance to create a production of an untested aircraft that exists in a 1: 7 scale model and for which there is still no engine or avionics? They will manage the pilot production of several boards for testing and certification. If everything burns out and the stars converge in the right phase, money will be allocated from the budget for the construction of production facilities. Do you really think that this experienced and informed person will run to the bank for a loan to build a steam locomotive ahead?

[Nazar]

D16 (Ilya) - that's what I'm talking about! There is nothing and first of all there is no engine - that's what they write
not in some blog, but in the Military Industrial Courier:
“The long-voiced VK-800 engine has been expected for many years. It is intended to be installed on the Russian version of the L-410NG aircraft for local airlines, which will be assembled in Yekaterinburg. Without this long-awaited engine, the aircraft cannot be considered fully Russian and delivered to government customers.
The engine is also intended for the new most massive aircraft for local air transportation, replacing the legendary worker An-2.
However, if the creation of the engine goes on at the same snail's pace, then Mongolia will overtake us in this field. "
That is why the experienced and well-informed director of U-UAZ does not fuss.
Of course, the money will be allocated to him, but usually, to speed up the process, the plant ordered reconstruction projects for its own, then this amount was returned of course. And now this is not - a sure sign for the coming years no mass production is expected.

[D16]

Of course, the money will be allocated to him, but usually, to speed up the process, the plant ordered reconstruction projects for its own, then this amount was returned of course.

Why will he be given money for construction before there are real test results?

However, if the creation of the engine goes on at the same snail's pace, then Mongolia will overtake us in this field. "

Has Mongolia started producing its own theaters long ago? SibNIA is moving its An-2 modernization project there. Well done, we found an investor.

Ulaanbaatar can enter the international market with a very competitive product that will definitely be in good demand.

What is the demand? Who needs these planes besides Mongolia? The market for such aircraft is vanishingly small.
I live in Samara and communicate with people related to the production of NK-32-02. To be honest, after several accidents at the stand and messing around with the NK Engines management, I thought that the engine would never be brought to life. But no. Once the first motors were sent to Kazan. I think that one fine day VK-800S will be sent to the UZGA as routinely.

[Nazar]

D16 - Mongolia is not under sanctions - you can buy and install any engine there
the same Honneveli, but where to sell a few pieces. planes - they will find, not in the hundreds they will release them there.

[D16]

where to sell several pieces. planes - they will find, not in the hundreds they will release them there.

Blessed is he who believes. China is still producing Y-5s, and the market for such aircraft is vanishingly small.

[Nazar]

D16 (Ilya) - You are right, the market for such machines is really "not wide", the same China makes no more than 10 units a year now. Our country needs them in hundreds of units, but if SibNIA does produce them in Mongolia, then I think not in tens of units either. But it is unlikely that they will be imported from Mongolia to Russia - with imported equipment they will definitely fall under the re-export ban. But Asia is big, they will find someone to sell to, the cost will be lower than in the Russian Federation (the Mongols have different taxes than we do), so they will play on the price and sell them

[Nazar]

D16 = Supplement - as a joke - here on VO today an article informing the US wants to buy the AN-2 Demand is growing by leaps and bounds

[D16]

Whose loot to cut? Private shareholders?

Do you think someone was developing at their own expense? The question is not to SibNIA, but to those who hired them to develop the aircraft project, which, in principle, cannot be certified. What were you hoping for?

[evgen1221]

That's interesting to me too. Well, OK capitalism, such as declared competition, such as the buyer decides what is better, Well, make and sell! But apparently to stand violently and cut it is easier and more profitable.

[D16]

Well, make and sell!

To whom to sell something? Think companies that live in the state. donations have money for new planes? The paradox of the situation is that everyone knows that the An-2 needs to be replaced, but no one is ready to pay for the replacement.

[Doctor]

The paradox of the situation is that everyone knows that the An-2 needs to be replaced, but no one is ready to pay for the replacement.

The question is about priorities.
The billion that went to Syria - 400 (FOUR PANCAKES!) Cessna Caravan aircraft.

[D16]

The billion who went to Syria

No wonder. It's warm in Syria. Money does not like the cold and tends to the south .

[Aviator_]

The case, of course, is necessary. But - whose dvigun will be there? And the dimensions are embarrassing - 2 passengers nevertheless climbed into the An-12, but this, it seems, like the Yak-12 will be, no more than three

[your1970]

Quote: Aviator_

this one, it looks like the Yak-12 will be, not more than three

Do not read the article,? religion does not allow?
"light multifunctional aircraft for nine passengers "

[loki565]

9 passengers, now it seems like these are the requirements for single-engine aircraft, but the engine will also be less than 800hp.

[Ros 56]

And who has such requirements for the number of people? An-2 like 12 and even more drove and nothing.

[D16]

And who has such requirements for the number of people?

Have aviation regulations. This aircraft will not be certified as a passenger aircraft either in Europe or in America where these rules apply. In Russia as well.

[Ros 56]

And why should we observe Western rules? You might think they with their Russophobic manners will buy these Baikals from us. An-2 with its seventy years of service has proved that these requirements were sucked out of the blue. I understand large planes, but we are not talking about them.

[D16]

Why should we follow Western rules?

Once accepted, then you must observe. Express your grievances to those who accepted them. Cancel and do An-2 further.

[Ros 56]

It would be my will and would do them further, but after deep modernization. He has proven himself very well in small aircraft. And the Swiss, and the reaper, and the gambler on the pipe, and how many pilots learned on it, God alone knows the archives. He could be repaired on his knee in the steppe, hands would grow from where needed. And all these rules were invented in defiance of us, they know, we have nothing to replace it, and they do not have such open spaces and distances as we have in Siberia and in the north.
However, I got carried away, no one needs it.

[loki565]

They refer to the rules of AP23, I have not read them myself, I don’t know)))
https://ru-aviation.livejournal.com/4094991.html

[Genry]

Quote: Ros 56

And who has such requirements for the number of people? An-2 like 12 and even more drove and nothing.

https://armak-iac.org/dokumenty/aviatsionnye-pravila/
Civilian airworthiness standards light aircraft (AP-23)

23.3 Airplane categories
(a) Airplanes with no more than nine landing seats, excluding pilot seats, with a maximum certificated take-off weight of not more than 5700 kgf and intended for non-acrobatic use are in the normal category.

[Piramidon]

Quote: Aviator_

The case, of course, is necessary. But - whose dvigun will be there? And the dimensions are embarrassing - 2 passengers nevertheless climbed into the An-12, but this, it seems, like the Yak-12 will be, no more than three

https://ru-aviation.livejournal.com/4094991.html

[sedoj]

Why, when it comes to a pipe, is the picture constantly turned over?

[KCA]

That is why the models are hung upside down in the pipe.

[Artavazdych]

As I understand it, there should be a downforce, not a lift

[JD1979]

Quote: sedoj

Why, when it comes to a pipe, is the picture constantly turned over?

This is not a picture upside down, but the model is hung upside down))

[sedoj]

Pardon Tady - I was wrong. "Sofa Analyst", you know.

[your1970]

Now I don't know - in the 60s and 70s, the model was always blown upside down

Quote: sedoj

Why, when it comes to a pipe, is the picture constantly turned over?

[Aviator_]

Now I don't know - in the 60s and 70s, the model was always blown upside down

Well, you know, now they also blow it on a belt scale all over the world. Backlash is selected.

[Aviator_]

Now look at the blue wind tunnel diffuser guard. This is a railing so that no one accidentally falls down. The original shot is correct.

[evgen1221]

Hmm. So it seems there is already some kind of replacement and for a long time it seems like it flies in metal. Or does each of our aviation companies want to make their own version and sell monopoly?

[Doliva63]

Well, we did. True, not an airplane, but a model, okay, but what is the result?

[Thunderbolt]

Quote: Doliva63

okay, what about the result?

uav mte

[Ros 56]

Yeah, the Superjet has already been made, but will this one go to number two? What is there in it from ours, does anyone know for sure?

[Vadim237]

The Superjet will become entirely Russian components in 2024 when the PD 8 engine is created.

[Ros 56]

By number 2, I meant the new Bakal.

[Boa kaa]

Quote: Vadim237

The Superjet will become entirely Russian components in 2024 when the PD 8 engine is created.

YEAH..And will Grandfather Pikhto think about avionics and other electrical systems and get them from under the counter?

[Captain Nemo]

If you fix all the jambs of the puperjet, the output will be Tu-334SM))). Now it is clear, judging by the flags in the picture, for whom Mansurovich and Pagansian worked ...

[Nazar]

Vadim237 - and after 2024 Rogozin will fly to Mars, Chirkov will build the aircraft carrier Storm and the destroyer Leader ... well, that is, unless of course the donkey, or the emir, or Khoja Nasreddin himself, will die by that time

[Krasnodar]

We need an unmanned version a la Azerbaijani and, by the way, on its base you can bungle a drone interceptor

[ul_vitalii]

Quote: Krasnodar

We need an unmanned version a la Azerbaijani and, by the way, on its base you can bungle a drone interceptor

And who will harass tall grasshoppers and future butterflies through forests and fields Greetings buddy Well, on those snub-nosed ones, we would put our devices from a high slide.

[Krasnodar]

Greetings, glad to see on the site, the loss! ))
So we will come up with a "special irrigation" for harmful insects

[Nazar]

The plane itself is flawed:
1. In front of the pilot's cabin there is a large engine cowling, and at the takeoff the plane stands with its nose raised high, that is, the pilot's view forward and downward is blocked, and this is despite the fact that it is necessary to take off from the ground and unprepared sites. How can this be done without looking at the runway?
2. One engine - but it is not, "straw" bed - "for the first time" they will install imports. That is, Siberians cannot install imports, but Urals residents can - cool. The generally accepted practice for such aircraft is to take auto-engines and install them on the aircraft after minor modifications. In Russia, there is such an auto-engine - Aurus. Two such engines on the wings (like Cessna) would solve many issues, including visibility of the runway at takeoff and, most importantly, SAFETY!
After all, what was written in the last article - backup electric motors 2 pcs, 100KW each ... can you imagine how much they weigh? yes, plus batteries for them - complete idiocy. Well, I won't write about the parachute on which the entire plane will descend, you can't use obscenities, but you can't do without a mat.
AH2 flew like a glider with the engine off, but the second wing was removed and the glider will not work, therefore two engines are needed, if one fails, the second dvigun will save the plane.

[donavi49]

Well, on the other hand, this is research and experimental design work with an estimate. While the money is being given, at least the teleportator will be fastened there. The main thing is that R&D is going on. This is how it looks by the way.

[Doctor]

that's why two engines are needed, if one fails, the second dvigun will save the plane

Fuel consumption is doubled at once. For a ten-seater, the loss to competitors is unambiguous.
Approximate ruler for a range of approximately 1600 km (from St. Petersburg to Crimea).

Cessna Skyhawk, 4 seats, 1 engine, 180 hp, 20 kg / flight hour.

Cessna Caravan, 10 seats, 1 engine, 670 hp, 150 kg / flight hour.

But 2 engines are growing at once:
Cessna SkyCourier, 20 seats, 2 engines of 1100 hp, almost 600 kg / hour

It's easier to drive two Caravans away.

And don't forget, 737 will gobble up 2800 kg per hour.

[akarfoxhound]

2800 per hour is cool! If you do not count on this for 150-180 passengers and flight time, right?

[Doctor]

2800 per hour is cool! If you do not count on this for 150-180 passengers and flight time, right? wink

Well if so. And if there are 30 passengers? And so every second flight?
All sorts of aircraft are needed, all sorts are important!
A complete line - from double to transcontinental.
And preferably your own.

[Nazar]

Arzt (Yuri) - "Fuel consumption doubles immediately" - This is not true. The fuel consumption of two 400 hp engines will exceed the fuel consumption of one 800 hp engine by a very, very small amount. But carrying an extra ton of cargo for years (backup electric engines and batteries for them) - in your opinion, this will not affect the flight economy - huh? These are direct losses - instead of this ballast, it was possible to transfer commercial cargo and get money for it, but this is just extra fuel consumption.
Regarding the pictures - your conclusion "But 2 engines at once grow:" is, to put it mildly, not justified -
1. Cessna Caravan, 10 seats, 1 engine, 670 hp, 150 kg/hour 150:670=0,224 kg/hour per hp.
2. Cessna SkyCourier, 20 seats, 2 engines of 1100 hp, almost 600 kg/hour 600\2200=0,272 kg/hour per hp
the difference is extremely small, given that the Cessna SkyCourier is a different class of aircraft (20 seats), and fuel consumption increases exponentially as the aircraft becomes heavier, not linearly.
And one more "detail" - All these planes in the pictures are equipped with a landing gear with a nose wheel, that is, at the start they stand exactly, which means that even in a single-engine version, the pilot has any forward and downward visibility.
With respect, Igor.

[Orkraider]

... Regarding the pictures - your conclusion "But 2 engines are growing at once:", to put it mildly is not justified 1. Cessna Caravan, 10 seats, 1 engine, 670 hp, 150 kg / h 150: 670 = 0,224 kg / h for one HP.
2. Cessna SkyCourier, 20 seats, 2 engines of 1100 hp, almost 600 kg/hour 600\2200=0,272 kg/hour per hp -

Welcome.
Your opponent was talking about commercial efficiency, and it is considered to be the expense divided by the number of people / cargo transported.
Total:
1: 150 = 10
2: 600 = 20.

So, he is right to write from his example:

Fuel consumption in half at once

[Nazar]

Orkraider (I) Good afternoon!

670hp: 10 = 67hp per passenger; 2200hp: 20 = 110hp per passenger these are cars of different classes, hence the difference in fuel consumption.
Initially, I wrote about replacing one 800hp engine with two 400hp engines - are you trying to convince me that this will double the fuel consumption? The increase will be, but extremely insignificant and it is compensated by the fact that you will not need to carry with you a constantly weighty emergency electric propulsion system, which is also additional. fuel consumption and + lost profits, instead of these email. engines and batteries, you can carry cargo and get paid for it.
With respect, Igor.

[Orkraider]

Welcome.

670hp: 10 = 67hp per passenger; 2200hp: 20 = 110hp. .. these are cars of different classes

What's the difference in class when comparing fuel efficiency?
And it was just about her, about commercial efficiency, which very much depends on fuel consumption, and not on the number of hp. per person. You are converted to hp accused the opponent
in error

.Your conclusion "But 2 engines immediately grow ... to put it mildly is not justified

.
It seems to me that you are wrong. The fuel efficiency of twin-engine comparable aircraft is lower than single-engine ones.
The growth is based on the examples given, if you think they are wrong: give specific examples of aircraft brands, indicating the costs.

About:

about replacing one 800hp engine with two 400hp

.
What Russian engine do you offer, which produces 400 hp? and the weight will be equal to 1/2 VK-800? Moreover, the weight should be less than 1/2, but let's not talk about that.
And VK-800, with due regard and interest in its appearance, will be delivered, and in the foreseeable horizon.

And yes, if it is still possible to install emf on this wing without major changes (which I doubt, to be honest), then do you seriously think that it is possible to install an internal combustion engine on it without redesigning?

there will be no need to carry with you a constantly weighty emergency electric propulsion system

I agree with this., IMHO, the an-2 is operated without all this, and the new aircraft will have higher reliability than the old people who are forced to fly

[Nazar]

Orkraider - Hello!) Regarding the engine: Here is what the Military Industrial Courier writes
(Vl. Volgin from September 29):
“The long-voiced VK-800 engine has been expected for many years. It is designed to be installed on the Russian version of the L-410NG aircraft for local airlines, which will be assembled in Yekaterinburg. Without this long-awaited engine, the aircraft cannot be considered fully Russian and delivered to government customers.
The engine is also intended for the new most massive aircraft for local air transportation, replacing the legendary worker An-2.
However, if the creation of the engine goes on at the same snail's pace, then Mongolia will overtake us in this field. "
Why Mongolia? It's just that SibNIA, with such an attitude to their work in the Russian Federation, is now working together with the Mongols and they really can succeed with such an aircraft earlier and better than UZGA.

[Nazar]

Orkraider - I'll continue - about the engine - In the Russian Federation, one Aurus 500 hp car engine has already been converted into an aircraft engine, it turned out quite acceptable, and UZGA is aware of this.
Regarding the alteration of the wing structure - and it will have to be done this way - just install the mounts for the motors - only electric ones (the diagram is higher for donavi49).
In terms of fuel efficiency, yes, one 800 hp engine consumes less fuel than two 400 hp engines, but not by much and definitely not "twice". For that, it will not be necessary to carry the ballast of the electric propulsion system for years - the carrying capacity will be added, and this is additional. income.
For safety - the quote "An-2 is operated without all this," - so An2 LETAL is like a glider with an inoperative engine and that is why it was made a bi-plan! UZGA craftsmen removed the second wing - that's it, the "glider" was gone. And therefore there must be two engines.
No, well, they also wrote about the parachute, and seriously - for UZGA, apparently this is an "option"

[ycuce234-san]

How to do it without looking at the takeoff.

Television system with cameras and video processors. They have been used in military aircraft for many decades and it would be high time for them to be used in the civilian sphere as well - as satellites for broadcasting television.
You can even make a virtual cockpit with an augmented reality helmet. It makes no sense to simply make an analogue of the AN-2, without stepping a step higher and not providing along the way orders for our own electronics industry. Therefore, let them invent parachutes and try electric movement ...

[askort154]

New aircraft LMS-901, developed to replace the An-2,

This is already the “eleventh” attempt, but it dies in the “attempt” stage.
It is stupid to cram modern "aircraft products" into the parameters of the An-2.
An-2 is "Kalashnikov" in the light-engine aviation of the 20th century in the USSR, and in a dozen countries. Before his death Antonov said that the best plane that I have created in my life turned out to be An-2!

To replace the legendary An-2 "Corn".

This "nickname" was given to him by people not versed in aviation. Sticky (brand)
"Kukuruznik" (maize-plane), originally carried the Po-2 plane, after its successful landing in a corn field, due to engine failure. When the Po-2 biplane left the "aviation scene", a new, more serious biplane appeared - the An-2. And the media-ordinary people, seeing there "4 wings" and here, flying in the sky, automatically began to call it "Kukuruznik" and the An-2, which ran around the pilots flying on it. They called it affectionately - "Annushka", or simply "Anton". I had to fly on it, and on "wheels", and on "skis", and on "floats". Antonov is right - the plane is a legend in its class. From any "emergencies", it always came out with honor in "strong hands" (embracing the sky, with strong hands, the pilot gains altitude). It was the first step to "Big Aviation". There is nothing like that now. They can immediately board a Boeing from their "school desk". And that's not the same romance. There was no replacement for the An-2, and there won't be one, as an individual.

[Krasnodar]

I thought because I irrigated the corn fields))

[senima56]

"The Ministry of Industry and Trade has abandoned the single-engine TVS-2021DTS Baikal aircraft, which was planned for serial production in 2." - and what kind of aircraft is being "blown through" in the pipe, isn't it a single-engine one ?! So it was worth building a garden when there is already a flying TVS-2DTS "Baikal"? Or "history repeats itself": there was a flying Tu-334, but someone "very smart" decided to make an "airplane from scratch", entrusting it to a firm ("Sukhoi"), which never (!!!) made civilian aircraft! So we are disentangling the failed SSJ project! The enemy is sitting deeply in the government and ruining the attempts to revive our aircraft industry!

[Aviator_]

there was a Tu-334 flying, but someone "very smart" decided to make an "airplane from scratch"

This "smart" - the current rector of MAI Poghosyan, naturally, having enlisted the support from above, killed the Tu-334. Then, when he built an unnecessary UAC building in Zhukovsky (it still stands empty), he was kicked out, and he became the rector of MAI.

[Igoresha]

and he became the rector of MAI.

"cadres decide everything" (c)

[Aviator_]

"cadres decide everything" (c)

Well, yes, what a table is - so is a chair (proverb of doctors). Poghosyan did not even have the title of associate professor at the time of his appointment.

[nobody75]

The enemy is sitting deeply in the government and is ruining the attempts to revive our aircraft industry!

Sure? But I remember a different story ...
In the early 90s, at the end of the Soviet Union, the Sukhoi Design Bureau began to transport the Su-27 to air shows. And an American businessman showed up with a Businessjet project under the Su brand.... That's where the roots of the Superjet grow.
Sincerely

[Max Lebedev]

Need a cheap car in a large series

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: Max Lebedev

Need a cheap car in a large series

Who needs it? Where will its demand be announced? How many remote villages are left in the country, where do people still live and where do they work there?
I'll tell you honestly, I don't believe that the country needs (desperately) replacement of the An-2. We have no work left for such equipment, no tasks. which it would carry out against the budget appropriation.
I am bitterly stating the fact that in the field of high technologies, engine building, machine tool building, the country will soon be unable to compete with someone else, and even to repeat what has been created there will not be enough power or skills. And any engineer trained at the HSE can say:

 Show / Hide text

[John22]

The promising light multipurpose aircraft LMS-901 "Baikal", in principle, cannot replace the An-2. An-2 is a flying shed - a car for transporting people, cargo and animals on local airlines - this is our life. Realizing this, Antonov chose a biplane scheme with the most powerful mechanization of the wings, but how else to take off and land on the minimum area. In the Russian Federation and now there is no developed network of airfields, but those that were sold and built up. Only by repeating the An-2 scheme and using modern materials and technologies can an analogue of "Annushka" be created, which will be cost-effective, reliable and durable. Two engines can be placed on the upper wing, the nose wheel will prevent bonnetting and the pilot's view will be excellent. I think so.

[Igoresha]

the people of beggars will not fly between the lonely villages scattered across the taiga; it was in the USSR that civil aviation rolled grandmothers with goats and sacks of potatoes back and forth along the Yenisei (kingdom of heaven and many thanks to the pilot Ershov for a couple of books)

[Sergej1972]

It seems that in Yakutia, small aircraft are used quite intensively.

[faiver]

Not like, but really, the distances are long, the roads are worthless, after the rains there is a complete atas

and Yakutia is 17% of the country's territory, it is coal, gas, oil, diamonds, gold and much more ...

[mark1]

Quote: John22

Two engines can be installed on the upper fender,

You can put a spark in the nose (for example, from VK-650) on one gearbox, like on a helicopter.

[Captain Nemo]

The promising light multipurpose aircraft LMS-901 "Baikal", in principle, cannot replace the An-2. An-2 is a flying shed - a car for transporting people, cargo and animals on local airlines - this is our life. Realizing this, Antonov chose a biplane scheme with the most powerful mechanization of the wings, but how else to take off and land on the minimum area. In the Russian Federation and now there is no developed network of airfields, but those that were sold and built up. Only by repeating the An-2 scheme and using modern materials and technologies can an analogue of "Annushka" be created, which will be cost-effective, reliable and durable. Two engines can be placed on the upper wing, the nose wheel will prevent bonnetting and the pilot's view will be excellent. I think so.

- And you will get the An-28 with motors from the much-needed shock UAVs. By the way, the only Soviet-designed aircraft in service with the US Army.

[APASUS]

Whose engine will it be? Is it possible to mass produce such an engine? How maintainable is it for small rural airfields?
There are more than a hundred questions, and considering that the problem of replacing the An-2 did not arise yesterday and has been going on for 30 years, there is no point in discussing this project. Tomorrow another plane will be on the agenda, another official will simply change!

[Captain Nemo]

Engines are similar to UAVs, the state will have to expand the production of these engines anyway.

[APASUS]

Quote: Captain Nemo

Engines are similar to UAVs, the state will have to expand production of these engines anyway

And the planes are needed and the engines will have to be produced by ourselves, well, this process is very much tied to the individual. Another official can speed up this process or bury

[7,62x54]

The case is a pipe

[Konnick]

Quote: Igoresha

the people of beggars will not fly between the lonely villages scattered across the taiga; it was in the USSR that civil aviation rolled grandmothers with goats and sacks of potatoes back and forth along the Yenisei (kingdom of heaven and many thanks to the pilot Ershov for a couple of books)

Yes, before, in almost every regional center of the USSR there was an airport for An-2. Flights from regional centers were regular.
Airplanes have always been designed around the engine, but now they will create a digital model, and then they start looking for engines. To replace the An-2, a biplane is needed, because of the lower takeoff and landing speed for the possibility of landing on an unprepared site.

[faiver]

Tired of these dances with tambourines, can't we make the engine ourselves? Well, it's high time to just buy a production license and not reinvent another bicycle ...

[donavi49]

First, there are problems with engines at all stages - from small ones for UAVs to the largest ones. On the eagle, for example, the Japanese stand from Saito.

Secondly, the license is not sold.

[faiver]

if they don't sell, then it's stupid to copy, one hell of a sanction

[Semenov Andrey]

With the current management of the industry (UEC) there are no new engines and there never will be. And Sam 146 and PD-14 are a disgrace to engine building.

[abc_alex]

With the replacement of the An-2, the problem is not at all technical. And don't blame the designers for the "simple" theme. It's not about them. It's about the economy. Or rather, in the purchase price and the price of small aircraft services. The fact is that none of today's An-2 operators bought new aircraft at market prices. They got the cars either on the basis of write-off or after deduction of depreciation, either for free at all, and as a result of numerous "reforms". As a result, a market for small aircraft services has developed. In the prices in this market, there are no costs for buying a new aircraft. There are running costs and repairs. Everything. Repair of An-2 by aviation standards costs a penny.
Now imagine what a jump in prices for small aviation services will be if operators are forced to buy a new plane. It is not cheap, I think it will cost no less than a million dollars. And they will have to be recouped in a reasonable period of time, not 50 years. So, there simply won't be any buyers of services at such a price on the market. Yes, Gazprom and Rosneft will be enough for a hundred planes. And that's it. The end.
On this, production can be curtailed.

If we want to replace the An-2, we need to reduce the price of the new aircraft to 3-5 million rubles. It's not really waaappshe unless you pass 90% of the price to someone else. The state, for example.

[Dmitry Leontiev]

The state, for example, can lease aircraft to air carriers.

[abc_alex]

Leasing is essentially the same loan. I'm not talking about where the money can be taken, but that the customers of small aircraft services simply won't bring aircraft owners million dollar profit for the sane period. And we are talking about profit, not revenue.

[Alexander Vorontsov]

And it's beautiful. It's strange that they inserted an upside-down photo of the model into the topic...

[Wanderer_GO]

Yes, but did you have your own "home-grown" engines, control systems, modern materials for the fuselage? Everything that was offered was with the use of foreign components - and this is a road to nowhere, especially for an actual aircraft for internal use. That the fate of the superjet has not taught anything?
I do not perceive people who thoughtlessly contributed to the collapse of a self-sufficient country, and now with "foam in their mouth" demanding from the "fragment of a shipwreck" to continue to sail further at the same pace.

[Dmitry Leontiev]

What, interestingly, does this new aircraft imply a minimum landing speed? Probably anyway higher than that of a biplane.

And for a mass aircraft, I believe, the main indicator is precisely the minimum landing speed - so that in the event of any refusals, the passengers have the maximum chances of survival.

And to achieve this safe minimum speed (well, say, 60 km / h or even less), at which one could even crash into a tree and stay alive, it is even worth worsening any other performance of the car - if necessary; - because here we are talking about security in mass use.

The biplane, in my opinion, just gives such an acceptable landing speed - despite the fact that it also has a high carrying capacity. At the same time, its wingspan is not very large - which means it does not require a lot of parking space and a wide strip.