RSC Energia proposes to refuse to participate in the ISS program

The Russian rocket and space corporation Energia, which is the operator of the Russian segment of the International Space Station, has proposed abandoning further participation in the ISS program and focusing on the creation of a Russian space station.

As it was announced at the RAS Space Council, after 2025 most of the ISS elements will be decommissioned for various reasons. Accordingly, spending on the station will increase, which can reach 10-15 billion rubles a year, which is "too large". Instead of participating in the ISS program, RSC Energia proposes to create a national space station.

There are already a number of elements that have been seriously damaged and are out of service. Many of them are not replaceable. After 2025, we predict an avalanche failure of numerous elements on board the ISS

- said the first deputy general director of Energia Vladimir Soloviev.

He presented the look of the new "Russian Orbital Service Station" (ROSS), which will consist of three to seven interchangeable modules. The station will be autonomous, built with an open architecture and an unlimited service life. According to RSC Energia's plans, commissioning of the station should begin after 2024.

In turn, Roscosmos announced that they plan to begin negotiations with partners in 2021 on the terms of further operation of the ISS.

Earlier, Roskosmos said that the ISS will expire in 2024, but Russia intends to agree on its extension until 2030. According to Roskosmos plans, the Nauka modules, nodal and scientific-energy modules should go to the ISS. Retrofitting the ISS Russian segment with these modules within three years will make it completely independent from the rest of the station.

Comments

[book]

of course refuse. and let Rogozin fly, for the collapse of Roskosmos. Run from a trampoline

[Van 16]

In relation to Rogozin, you used some strange word)) obviously, a mistake, but ..))

[Ilya-spb]

The ISS will have to be abandoned anyway. Sooner or later.

We need to build our own, Russian orbital station.

In the USSR they could. Now technology has made great strides forward.

[Aviator_]

In the USSR they could. Now technology has made great strides forward.

This technology has gone forward, and the country has gone back.

[Tusv]

Quote: Aviator_

This technology has gone forward, and the country has gone back.

A. Funny. Musk just caught up with Russia in manned space and the country is already back. Let's analyze the situation. ISS becomes obsolete, Ilon's commercial success is canceled. The proton is sent into oblivion, and the Angara is not yet ready, more precisely, it is not certified by the United States to maintain the ISS. Conclusion. We need a new project. The costs are the same, but there will be no more income from the ISS

[astepanov]

Quote: Tusv

The costs are the same, but there will be no more income from the ISS

Eh, come on. It is one thing to operate a part of the station, and another to create it from scratch. The Eagle spacecraft cannot be completed for the third decade, there are no heavy carriers (Protons were taken out of production, and how to remove the station's elements?), We cannot complete the modules to the ISS (which means that the money for these modules will go to waste). Do you want Rogozin to do something in 4 years? He will not do anything, except that he organizes a competition for the name.

[Tusv]

Quote: astepanov

Protons were taken out of production, but how to remove the elements of the station?

My teacher used to say when nobody listened to her: "Do you fish? - No, I fish."
And what am I talking about? Proton in Lethe, Angara is not certified by the Americans and will not fly until we leave the ISS. And if there is no Proton, then there is no orbit correction. While the Soyuz and Falcon places are barely supporting their orbit

[Shurik70]

Refuse to participate in the ISS?
Are they completely sick?
Want your own station? Let them do it.
WHEN they do, they will make sure that everything works fine and is not more expensive than participation in the ISS, then it will be possible to talk (theoretically) about the refusal. In practice, this is not only an economic return, but also the country's prestige.
Better to let them talk about the refusal to participate in the Olympic Games. No prestige, our country was clearly ordered to arrange doping scandals. And an indicative "flogging". I had to IMMEDIATELY refuse to participate at all, when they only offered to abandon our flag.

[BecmepH]

Quote: astepanov

He will not do anything, except that he organizes a competition for the name.

How can he not? Get rich! That is why they conceived a new project to plunder ...

[Akuzenka]

Everything is trite. There are no design, production and scientific personnel able to create in reality (oh, how many paper) spacecraft (orbital station, launch vehicle). Long live democracy and capitalism !!!!!!!

[Aviator_]

and Angara is not ready yet, or rather not certified by the USA

What does American certification have to do with it? In general, Angara-5 had its only launch in December 2014 with a 2-ton mockup into geostationary orbit. And that's all. In general, everything.

[Tusv]

Quote: Aviator_

What does American certification have to do with it? In general, Angara-5 had its only launch in December 2014 with a 2-ton mockup into geostationary orbit. And that's all. Generally everything

.
And while. It is the Americans who are drowning the Angara, and their heavy falcon is a joke or a really average rocket into heavyweights.

[Vol4ara]

Quote: Tusv

Quote: Aviator_

This technology has gone forward, and the country has gone back.

A. Funny. Musk just caught up with Russia in manned space and the country is already back. Let's analyze the situation. ISS becomes obsolete, Ilon's commercial success is canceled. The proton is sent into oblivion, and the Angara is not yet ready, more precisely, it is not certified by the United States to maintain the ISS. Conclusion. We need a new project. The costs are the same, but there will be no more income from the ISS

It's hard not to catch up when the opponent is standing still.

[Civil]

Quote: Aviator_

In the USSR they could. Now technology has made great strides forward.

This technology has gone forward, and the country has gone back.

Yes, it's time to accept this fact ... the country of the 3rd world in decline is not capable of maintaining astronautics ...

[Sasha Minakov]

Yes, really) Hundreds of private houses around my house and good cars say otherwise. And yes. These are ordinary people. They don't need it in the USSR. And yes. They are patriots. Patriots of Russia and not your USSR. (raking up what the USSR has done for a very long time)

[Vol4ara]

Quote: Sasha Minakov

(raking up what the USSR has done for a very long time)

What, for example?
By the way, where are the cars around your house produced?

[Sergey Averchenkov]

Why do you hate your country so much? And in general, I have the feeling that there are more agents of the State Department than Russian citizens ... a zamanuha has been created - like a military review with a penchant for patriotism, but in fact it is solid crap - hatred of Russia.

[Akuzenka]

To the point, colleague! All the Shapkozakidonsko-fantastic, jingoistic-patriotic, plus incredibly. It is worth a distinctly grounded commentary, inextricably linked with reality - some disadvantages. this also applies to politics and technology, about the economy, it is even indecent to remember.

[Alex777]

Don't confuse communist hatred with capitalist hatred.

[Cosm22]

Whose technologies have advanced far ahead? Russian?
You will read the analysis of Russian science made by such masters as the President of the Russian Academy of Sciences Alexander Sergeev or the Chairman of the Committee on Education and Science Vyacheslav Nikonov.
The first directly says that Russia can no longer compete in space with other leading powers in this area. His conclusions are devastating - "Our lag has a numerical indicator - space science is funded 60 (!) Less than scientific projects of NASA." By 2022, funding for work for the tasks of scientific space should fall to 2,9 billion rubles instead of 15 billion.
The second stated that, judging only by the number of scientists, Russia has long ceased to be a leader in the scientific world. “Today there are six times more researchers in China than in Russia, in the United States - twice! Although once we had much more of them, ”Nikonov noted. Only 1 percent of our graduates go to science every year.
Can you compete with these indicators with China or the United States?
What to talk about if the "Science" module has been lying on Earth for a quarter of a century? If its very problematic future docking with the ISS is already being presented as an outstanding achievement of Russian cosmonautics?
Only here is the road spoon for dinner. The station is not eternal. The Russian sector is bursting at the seams. The fact that in the last exit the Russian cosmonauts missed the handrail to walk in space and did not unscrew the bolt of the Zarya panel is a trifle, an anecdote. But the fact that it was not possible to eliminate the air leak from the outside is a problem.
Under such conditions, will an American uncle, who pays the lion's share of the station's operating costs (Russia pays a miserable amount), extend her life beyond 24? The question is serious.
And what will the "Science" module do there (if they miraculously dock it) next year? And what time is it? 2 unhappy years? If your uncle covers the shop? So why bother to fence this garden at all? Money has nowhere to go?

[shahor]

Quote: Cosm22

Under such conditions, will an American uncle, who pays the lion's share of the station's operating costs (Russia pays a miserable amount), extend her life beyond 24? The question is serious.

Uncle since 1924 officially launches the lunar project Artemis. Cost ... immeasurable. Two projects - ISS and Artemis at the same time - in terms of financial - will not even pull the United States. The conclusion is obvious. The ISS is doomed. Two thirds of the station are American modules. The United States spends 3 billion on them a year. The Russian Federation spends 1 on its modules. Europe pays some additional amount. But that's not the problem. We see US plans beyond 24. Americans know what they will do and what they need to do. What do we have besides the ISS? Rogozin is going to drive space liquor, paint ships under Gzhel ... well, a lot of projects, but not about space. And funding ... that. It's sad to live in this world ...

[Akuzenka]

Uncle since 1924 officially launches the lunar project Artemis.

Wow!!!!!!

[Alex777]

Two projects - ISS and Artemis at the same time - in terms of finances - will not even pull the United States. The conclusion is obvious. The ISS is doomed.

We do not need this ISS, apart from maintaining the image and receiving a little money, from the word at all. Our experiments have been carried out on it long ago.
And in a situation when the station starts to fail slowly, the last motivation to participate in its maintenance disappears.
And there is no need to comment on relations with the United States.
Now Trump will impose sanctions against Roscosmos and there will be an excellent reason to say goodbye.

[shahor]

Quote: Alex777

Now Trump will impose sanctions against Roscosmos and there will be an excellent reason to say goodbye.

I agree, maybe the station in its current form is no longer needed, but what should we do then? Join Artemis? With what? Space liquor for astronauts?

[Alex777]

If you ask me, I would do a spaceplane (Spiral on a new level). In the current situation, there are always tasks for him, IMHO.
And what the deeply disrespectful Rogozin will do - I do not know.

[Alexey from Perm]

technology then stepped forward, and oligarchic Russia stepped back

[Alex777]

Except for China (and even then, not everything is clear with it), now all countries are oligarchic. And they develop somehow.

[Alexey from Perm]

Oligarchs who own machine-building holdings or machine-tool or IT holdings are strikingly different from oligarchs who own energy or raw materials industries)))

[Hypertension]

RSC Energia proposes to refuse to participate in the ISS program

When do they want to refuse? Tomorrow already? Or by 2025? So the expiration date will come up by that time. As in a joke: They gave him a year. He served 12 months - was released on parole.

[Alex777]

let Rogozin fly, for the collapse of Roskosmos.

It should have already flown, but squabbles arose in the "launch preparation group" and VVP left him. He has no time for these squabbles. It's a pity...

[Pessimist22]

It is high time to give up and go to your stations.

[sav]

Quote: Pessimist22

it's time to give up and go to your stations

There were plans to use the Russian segment of the ISS as a base for a national space station. The difficulty lies, as I understand it, in moving to the desired orbit.

[slipped]

Quote: sav

Quote: Pessimist22

it's time to give up and go to your stations

There were plans to use the Russian segment of the ISS as a base for a national space station. The difficulty lies, as I understand it, in moving to the desired orbit.

No. And the plans, well, this is RKK's proposal for ROSS:

[Horon]

The difficulty is how to separate the Russian segment from the station, if a station is formed around it, plus its service life is already close to the end.

[slipped]

Quote: Horon

The difficulty is how to separate the Russian segment from the station, if a station is formed around it, plus its service life is already close to the end.

Nothing complicated. The division goes along the MLM-U - PxO CM node. The first module and everything that is further docked to it: UM and NEM - a new station.

[Horon]

There is a station around him !!! Remove the Russian module and the station will crumble and lose the meaning of its existence. Besides, why does the module have exhausted its resource? Flood only!

[slipped]

Quote: Horon

There is a station around him !!! Remove the Russian module and the station will crumble and lose the meaning of its existence. Besides, why does the module have exhausted its resource? Flood only!

Let me throw off the scheme for you, otherwise you are carrying heresy:

so clear?

[Horon]

This is no longer the same station; it will be a stub that you cannot turn around. The ISS stopped monitoring 20 years ago. It is more of a tourist hotel with elements of scientific research than a scientific station. With the loss of the Mir station, most of the scientific research in space was closed, and those that were continued were carried out for partners.

[slipped]

Quote: Horon

This is no longer the same station; it will be a stub that you cannot turn around.

The total volume is about 300 cubic meters. And this is only at the first stage.

Quote: Horon

The ISS stopped monitoring 20 years ago.

Is this before construction starts?

Quote: Horon

It is more of a tourist hotel with elements of scientific research than a scientific station. With the loss of the Mir station, most of the scientific research in space was closed, and those that were continued were carried out for partners.

Before the flight of each expedition, a list of the entire scientific watch program is published on the Roscosmos website.

[Horon]

Is this before construction starts?

Almost yes! With money for space then it became strained and many interesting programs were curtailed. The ISS then almost immediately became something of a show. Many scientific works on manned space were closed due to the inability to ensure secrecy. Even more was leaked to the "partners" as a sign of friendship and trust. For them, many of our developments turned out to be a revelation, the Chinese generally received their manned space, having received a lot from us for a song. In general, there either one has to deal with one's own space, or be attached to the tail of other people's space programs, while not really claiming anything.

[slipped]

Quote: Horon

Almost yes! With money for space then it became strained and many interesting programs were curtailed. The ISS then almost immediately became something of a show.

Americans always make shows out of their projects. You have to make excuses in the eyes of taxpayers or customers. This is an old habit with them.

Quote: Horon

Many scientific works on manned space were closed due to the inability to ensure secrecy.

It was 20 years ago. Since then, they have found an opportunity to ensure secrecy.

Quote: Horon

Even more was leaked to the "partners" as a sign of friendship and trust. For them, many of our developments turned out to be a revelation, the Chinese generally received their manned space, having received a lot from us for a song.

I would not say. Everyone paid in full. Nobody offered anything to anyone for free. This can still be seen on the ISS - free of charge, only within the framework of the agreement - everything outside the framework - pay.

Quote: Horon

In general, there either you have to deal with your own space, or be attached to the tail of other people's space programs, while not really pretending to anything.

Russia has its own manned space program.

[Avior]

Probably wear and tear forced to refuse
An air leak was recently discovered in the Russian segment

[Narak-zempo]

Quote: Avior

Probably wear and tear forced to refuse
An air leak was recently discovered in the Russian segment

Did the Americans sneak in with a drill?

[Avior]

They searched for the leak for a long time, but they seem to have found a crack.
Unfortunately, the drill was not approached by the Americans, and not in space.
With such industrial discipline, there is nothing to do in space

[Narak-zempo]

Quote: Avior

Unfortunately, the drill was not approached by the Americans, and not in space.
With such industrial discipline, there is nothing to do in space

How old is "Star"? What does the present industrial discipline have to do with it?

[donavi49]

So the Russian segment is the oldest there. He will definitely leave together with the ISS to the parking lot in the Pacific Ocean. There is even no question here.

On the other hand, why then start up the same Science? MEM? They will have to be drowned with 3-4 years of operation.

[Avior]

Gathered until 2030

[donavi49]

Well, in the article, RKK Energia throws fishing rods on the topic of drowning at 24-25, and throw all the freed up money to them on the topic of the new station.

[Avior]

The idea of ​​transferring money is understandable, but they must also justify
Most likely we will talk about wear and tear and an increase in the cost of operation

[Vadim237]

On our segment, cracks in the air leakage casing have already begun to appear - Science will be brought together, it will work and then we will disconnect it when the ISS begins to be decommissioned and on its basis we will assemble our own.

[slipped]

Quote: donavi49

On the other hand, why then start up the same Science? MEM? They will have to be drowned with 3-4 years of operation.

No. On the NEM, the CDU is installed the same as on the "Zvezda".

[Akuzenka]

You did not see the main thing:

As it was announced at the RAS Space Council, after 2025 most of the ISS elements will be decommissioned for various reasons. Accordingly, spending on the station will increase, which can reach 10-15 billion rubles a year, which is "too large."

This means that these 10-15 billion will go not to the ISS, but to the right side, i.e. in your pockets. If there is no real possibility to build and launch your own orbital station, then why should the ownerless money go to waste !? They won't let them go!

[Woodman]

focus on building a Russian space station.

It is high time. It will be interesting to see how the "partners" react.

[2 Level Advisor]

Lesovik, you are right all the time so interested in the reaction of partners every time .. you probably have a troll in your soul
but on the topic .. yes, God forbid we run our station ..
but-question 1- talking about budget savings - budget in the light of the latest trends - surely no more than the ISS segment will come out? At the same time, the functionality should be comparable, and not a "flag demonstration" in 3 small blocks ..
Question 2 - if it does not fly, is it possible to appoint in advance the one who, in this case, will be suspended under a trampoline for something and will be shot?
So it's all just after answering these questions
Yes! then - with a mustache .. no! then you shouldn't twitch ..

[Woodman]

Quote: Level 2 Advisor

Lesovik, you are always interested in the reaction of partners every time ..

Why shouldn't it be interesting to me? Moreover, Russia (USSR) has the experience of building a space station WITHOUT international cooperation, but the "partners" do not have such experience yet.

Quote: Level 2 Advisor

you probably have a troll at heart

Rather a cynic.

[Roman070280]

They will cry bitter tears ..
If they survive from laughter ..))

[donavi49]

The reaction of partners - the ISS needs to be reformed long ago. It does not meet practical needs.

The same axium is supported by Bigelow. Axium displays the demonstrator module next year.

In 2026, according to the plan, the withdrawal of an autonomous full-function station module manufactured by Thales Alenia Space, ordered by Axium. Fully functional station in 2028.

[Brturin]

Quote: Lesovik

interesting to see the reaction of the "partners".

It depends on who will be partners ...
2016- "As NASA pushes forward plans to travel to Mars, commercial partners will take the lead in low-Earth orbit, creating a space economy that is built not only on government contracts, but on private-sector supply and demand." NASA spokesman Katherine Humbleton
2018 - "The decision to end direct federal support to the ISS in 2025 does not mean that the station itself will be returned from orbit by then - it is entirely possible that the industrial industry may continue to manage certain elements or functions of the ISS within the framework of the future commercial platform" - ISS. " private enterprise on a commercial basis. "
2019 - "We give you a basic outline <...> now it's up to you how you use your creativity and ingenuity to find a way to make potential profit out of this," said NASA Deputy Head William Gersteinmeier https://tass.ru/ kosmos / 6526190

[Kuroneko]

He presented the look of the new "Russian Orbital Service Station" (ROSS), which will consist of three to seven interchangeable modules.

Rogozin, tell me, why does it seem to me that (if a station suddenly appears) the number of modules will approach three rather than seven?

[Kuroneko]

Well, it is necessary, how many fans of Rogozin and his genius are in the taxiing of Roscosmos, judging by the backing track. It will have to be considered for the future.

[Sanichsan]

Quote: Kuroneko

Well, it is necessary, how many fans of Rogozin and his genius are in the taxiing of Roscosmos, judging by the backing track. It will have to be considered for the future.

or maybe it is better to take into account for the future that the whining about "ruining space Ragozin", to put it mildly, are boring and are perceived as a marker of inadequacy, approximately as enthusiasm about the "leader in commercial launch"

[bar]

And how will there be striped without a Russian toilet?

[rruvim]

And will the "science" module be launched, or have they found "fallen out" bolts again? Maybe because of this scam, they completely abandoned the idea of ​​co-financing the ISS?

[slipped]

Quote: rruvim

And will the "science" module be launched, or have they found "fallen out" bolts again?

Preparation of the Nauka module for the April launch to the ISS is proceeding at Baikonur according to the schedule.

[Thrifty]

This had to be solved 15 years ago, when there were personnel, and not so worn out equipment, when it was possible to purchase high-quality microelectronics! Your own station is somehow quieter, you can work without fear that someone will openly or secretly interfere with the conduct of certain experiments, that there will be no sabotage, they will not drill holes in the case, at least! Only, I doubt very much that with people like Rogozin we will build our station in the next half century! We need workers, we need our own equipment, we need sufficient funding, we need a complete change of leadership of all those involved in our space exploration, until we finally slide into a number of third world countries.

[Avior]

The hole was drilled not at the station, but in a ship on Earth.

[book]

what stations. their missiles take off with a delay due to marriages. there are no specialists and no one prepares it is expensive to invest in people and there is no profit. it is better to cut the budget and show cartoons and promise mountains of gold

[rruvim]

In many ways, you are right. The builders on Vostochny get more than the "military" from the launches. But, foremen (their bosses and subcontractors) - they get nothing at all, it makes no sense! What for? If there are schemes in which salary in the statement does not matter ...

[rruvim]

By and large, for Russia - the ISS, it is certainly a complete "dead end". For a sovereign State (if we are sovereign) we need to have our own and only OWN orbital station. Technically, it is not difficult, especially financially.

[Boris Chernikov]

Well, in general, it is interesting that they write that after the launch of 3 sections, our part of the ISS will in fact be autonomous .. can it be unhooked as a thread and configured into a separate station?

[rruvim]

I don't see shunting engines in the new Russian modules (in propaganda, of course). So, that "autonomous" is fantastic!

[Boris Chernikov]

these are not, but you can add new ones)

[slipped]

Quote: rruvim

I don't see shunting engines in the new Russian modules (in propaganda, of course). So, that "autonomous" is fantastic!

[rruvim]

What is this "module"? Or secret. Maybe it's not for the ISS at all?

[slipped]

Quote: rruvim

What is this "module"? Or secret. Maybe it's not for the ISS at all?

MLM-U "Nauka" is preparing for launch at the MIC at Baikonur. And the cosmonauts' legs stick out from the docking station, by the way, a new structure that has not yet flown, so that it will be met in space.

[rruvim]

Well, if the "legs" ... They just dock. "The main thing is to get into the footprints of the spacesuit at the orbital station, so that the position of the dock is fixed ... The size of the feet of the spacesuit is very important." (Kirill Nemolyaev: "Hysteria of the USSR").

[slipped]

Quote: rruvim

Well, if the "legs" ... They just dock.

Study the materiel locally.

[rruvim]

Since 1978, there have been two docking systems in the world cosmonautics - the Soviet and the American. The American Rodeo docking system was developed in 1974 and used for the first time a year later during the Soyuz-Apollo joint flight. Its essence is as follows: two astronauts responsible for docking (dockers), at the moment when the ship is at a distance of 10 feet (about 3 meters) from another ship or orbital station, at the command "Begin!" flexible cables, the so-called "lasso" (lasso), are thrown out of special grooves, trying to attach them to the hooks located in the hull of the docked ship. Then the “lasso” loops are pulled together, and the dockers, using special hydraulic winches, pull the ship to the docked object with the help of hand efforts. Of course, such work requires an extremely precise eye and remarkable physical strength. Martin Cougar, who was with Ervin Johnson as a dock aboard the Apollo, once remarked with some humor: “Sometimes you get the feeling that you want to throw these mountains of metal and go for a smoke. Hemingway's old man with his damn fish would just be resting here.
The complete opposite of the American docking system was the Soviet one, which appeared somewhat later - in January 1978. In the scientific literature, it received the name "SSR-1" ("Rubinstein Docking System"). Let us draw the attention of the still awake reader to the most significant differences between the Soviet system and the American one.
First, the capricious and unreliable "lassos" were replaced by durable and comfortable harnesses designed by engineer Kondratyev (ZhK); secondly, if the Americans pulled the ship to the orbital station, in the Soviet docking system, on the contrary, the station itself is pulled to the ship using harnesses and is attached to it with docking nodes, and, finally, unlike the Americans, we have not two dockers, but three.
SCIENCE module - for example, will they dock?

[slipped]

Quote: rruvim

Since 1978 ....

Are you fond of science fiction? How to separate flies from cutlets, i.e. fiction from technical. It's just some kind of nonsense.

Quote: rruvim

SCIENCE module - for example, will they dock?

Just like before that "Dawn" was docked to "Star". And before that, five modules for retrofitting the Mir station. How the Soyuz and Progress spacecraft docked more than a hundred times.

[rruvim]

I wrote this, or rather broadcast it to another author, that does it make sense to dock the SCIENCE module to the ISS, if it has its own shunting ones? Either it's temporary, or it's just a blank. ISS dead end, at the beginning; just used up its "iron", secondly: end "pacem et amicitiam", which begs for it.

[slipped]

Quote: rruvim

I wrote it, or rather broadcast it by another author ...

So I say - nonsense.

Quote: rruvim

what does it make sense to dock the NAUK module to the ISS if it has its own shunting ones?

I didn't get your idea. Who has? "Science" or "ISS"? Soyuz MS also has what? And what have the shunting engines got to do with it? What are you smoking there?

[rruvim]

You don't understand ... What fits what.

[ycuce234-san]

"Since 1978"
It is strange that a specialized docking robotic arm has not yet been developed, with a new docking technology, which can take a reel of a coiled cable with a pin at its end from the mooring platform instead of an outdated lasso and insert its pin into the lock on the ship and circle it around the hook, then return the reel to the winch shaft by pulling on the cable. The Japanese JEMRMS is installed above the gateway of the Kibo module and allows you to load the equipment in or remove it out - they just have a little step to the docking robot. They could also safely assemble the stations and do what the cosmonauts would not do - to disassemble, pushing the multi-ton structures apart. There seems to be a lot of outboard robots on the ISS, and what prevents its development is not clear, well, maybe at least it will be at the new stations.

[Kaw]

Now they will abandon the ISS and begin the construction of a new stunning station for some immeasurably distant time (so that either the donkey or the padishah could die). It is necessary to somehow present to the inhabitants of the country that we no longer have manned astronautics (at least in the near future).
The ISS will soon be closed, whether we like it or not, the Americans are no longer interested in it, and we don't have enough money for our new station, and secondly, we don't really need it. IMHO

[rruvim]

All participants in the process agree.

The ISS will soon be closed, whether we like it or not, the Americans are no longer interested in it

And Rogozin too! The question here is that the ISS is already a heap of scrap metal, has exhausted its safety margin. Either change everything, or drown in the Pacific Ocean.

[Roman070280]

will abandon the ISS and begin the construction of a new stunning station by Kamu some immeasurably distant time

Yes bliiin .. And what - are there really those who believe in a different development of events ??
It's all sewn with white thread .. even stubborn patriots with the remnants of the brain understand everything ..

[rruvim]

The ISS must be "finished!" The sooner we go, the better!

[Deniso]

This would be the right decision. Although in my opinion, it was necessary to unilaterally withdraw immediately after the first sanctions. We hoped that we would be appreciated in the West and loved. But this did not happen and will never happen.

[voyaka uh]

This is in vain.
For the first time there are chances for the self-sufficiency of this station.
Firstly, tourists. Secondly, factories with the return of products to Earth.
For example, all sorts of unique electronic boards created in zero gravity conditions
are more accurate and of higher quality.
The station will be able to make a profit.
And Russian cosmonauts have extensive experience in operating space stations.
Roscosmos - profit

[sav]

Quote: voyaka uh

This is in vain.
For the first time there are chances for the self-sufficiency of this station.

RSC Energia apparently calculated the capital expenditures after 2024, therefore they are proposing. And you can organize a factory and tourists at your own station.

[rruvim]

Alexei! Okay! The Science module was supposed to

all sorts of unique electronic boards created in zero gravity conditions

this direction, but your fellow tribesmen have been sabotaging its launch for 10 years already. And tourists, they are tourists in Africa too ...

[voyaka uh]

"your fellow tribesmen have been sabotaging its launch for 10 years already" ///
---
If the space industry was commanded and my fellow tribesmen worked in it, then
there would be 10 such modules in orbit Science
But they left for Israel, the States, Canada in the 70-90s. And from this time in space
your fellow tribesmen are engaged ...

[rruvim]

Really? I meant RSC Energia. Igor Azar from "ours" or from "yours"?

[voyaka uh]

These are already the remains of the remains, "with a gold ring in the nose"
from "especially close to the sultan"

[rruvim]

Here's another one. "The Blagoveshchensk City Court of the Amur Region has arrested the director for the operation of infrastructure - the chief engineer of JSC TsENKI. According to the investigation, Vladimir Zhuk implemented a criminal scheme at the Vostochny cosmodrome related to the commissioning of facilities of the first stage of the cosmodrome. "The people say that they are" yours. "

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: voyaka uh

and my fellow tribesmen worked in it, t

There wouldn't even be one Science...

[Flurry]

Wear. Resource development. It is necessary to build a new one around Science and do all of the above, but on a new basis and scalable, according to new standards. The ISS has a bunch of adapters, adapters, converters, etc. Even their voltage and ours are different.
In orbit, you need a production base, a base for jumping to the Moon and asteroids, an assembly orbital base. And let private traders ride tourists.

[Kaw]

As far as I understand, now the flight of our unions to the station is partially paid by the Americans. When they stop doing this, we simply won't have the money to fly there. Moreover, to launch new elements of the station into orbit. IMHO

[slipped]

Quote: Kaw

As I understand it, now the flight of our unions to the station is partially paid by the Americans.

No. Funding for the construction of ships comes from the federal budget within the framework of the FKP. The two additional ships currently under construction on a commercial basis are off-budget.

Quote: Kaw

When they stop doing this, we simply won't have the money to fly there. Moreover, to launch new elements of the station into orbit. IMHO

What nonsense. Russia has its own federal space program.

[rruvim]

Nobody understands how

the flight of our unions to the station is partially paid by the Americans

... Even the Accounts Chamber does not know: who is from the Amers that pays and to what accounts. On the subsidiaries of Roscosmos, on foreign accounts? Or to the thirty foreign accounts of your TIN of Roscosmos, or to the foreign accounts of Roscosmos shareholders, where there are foreign agents. Or .. In general, no one pays anyone ... Masons - they are!

[Avior]

So they were going to do
But after the last breakdowns of the Russian segment with an air leak, they probably came to the conclusion that it would not work

[Yaro Polk]

To flood our compartments, not leave the Amerzians.
Well, it would be so cool, 3 stations in orbit, Chinese, Russian, and American-European-Japanese.

[U-58]

It is necessary to create your own station. It is a fact.
But when will the first module appear?
And the fourth? How much is it?
Common sense suggests that this idea will be two orders of magnitude (100 times) more expensive than operating the ISS with all possible repairs.
Did RKK want a good jackpot?
Well it is clear.
Another thing is not clear - where would he come from?
What to cut, what to gnaw?
After all, there are few such "projections".
Projects are needed. Made now and at their own expense. And if such projects are realistic, then it will be possible to move on to making decisions.

[slipped]

Quote: U-58

It is necessary to create your own station. It is a fact.
But when will the first module appear?

The "Berth" nodal module is already ready. One out of six ports will be occupied by the MLM "Science" module by 2024, and NEM will approach it.

Quote: U-58

Common sense suggests that this idea will be two orders of magnitude (100 times) more expensive than operating the ISS with all possible repairs.

MLM "Science" has a 15-year-old CAC. By 2024, only the first three years will have passed.

[rruvim]

The question is - why have an orbital station? Basically - what kind of vegetable "horseradish" is it for? But, not needed and that's it! For "force" only. ASZ and AKA are needed! And people in orbit are the last century!

[Yuriy71]

That's just funny !!! The political leadership of the country for this Never! will not work! It has not yet freed itself from illusions and, still, secretly nourishes them - "and, what if ...?" For such decisions, WILL is needed! which, absolutely not!

[Roman070280]

Americans will no longer pay for delivery .. it’s not interesting to work like that ..
Therefore, it is much more profitable "refuse from further participation "and"concentrate on creation "

Recently, they even offered to "focus" on the Buran revival .. We are also preparing a "concentrated" flight of a man on Mars ..

In a word - saw the endless edge ..))

[Vadim237]

Roscosmos simply does not have additional money to create its own station in the next five years, so our new orbital station is being postponed at least until 2030.

[Roman070280]

And the old one is postponed, and the new one is postponed ..
So you can focus on something more enjoyable .. for example - to cut the loot ..))

Shl .. at the expense of 5 years it was you who were modest .. I think they will not be the same in 15 years ..

[From Tomsk]

On July 7, 2020, the media reported that the NGO. Lavochkina plans to purchase four spherical reflectors in Switzerland, and 250 magnetic holders and other equipment in the United States to carry out alignment work for Luna-25. The company explains the use of foreign equipment to check the Russian lunar station by the absence of Russian analogues.

[rruvim]

Complete nonsense! Adjustment spheres can be made by any metallurgical plant. Our Elektrostal has experience. Simply - the withdrawal of "dough abroad". The ISS itself is the same "feeding trough".

[Alex_You]

Station in near-earth orbit marking time.

[Doctor]

Station in near-earth orbit marking time.

Unfortunately, not everyone understands this.

[slipped]

Quote: Alex_You

Station in near-earth orbit marking time.

It depends on which station. Although the potential of even the same ISS has not yet been fully used.

[Igor Tikhomirov]

Quote: Alex_You

Station in near-earth orbit marking time.

I agree.
Another question to nowhere. And with the help of which launch vehicles it will be possible to launch elements of the future orbital station?

[Doctor]

Another question to nowhere. And with the help of which launch vehicles it will be possible to launch elements of the future orbital station?

The key question. From here and it is necessary to begin. But again, not everyone understands this.

[slipped]

Quote: Igor Tikhomirov

Another question to nowhere. And with the help of which launch vehicles it will be possible to launch elements of the future orbital station?

Why nowhere? Two elements of the first stage MLM-U and NEM will be launched by Proton-M. The rest - UM, TM and SHO are displayed by "Soyuz 2".

At the second stage, "Angara-A5" will be used.

[Horon]

We must develop our programs, and not be on the premises of others. For Russia, the ISS has turned into a suitcase without a handle, our developments are not needed there for the most part, as a result, a complete stagnation of programs. Thanks to Yeltsin, on the one hand, it preserved the industry in this form, on the other hand, stagnation will slowly lead to its complete degradation. Moreover, our module on the ISS is fundamental, you just can't replace it, everyone is riveted to it, and the equipment really has a resource. It was not enough that this would lead to a serious accident with human casualties - in a lifetime, then you will not wash it off. It is the Americans who can kill the crew, then it is not obtrusive to explain to everyone that the equipment is old, with whom it does not happen. And Russia had been eating vodka in space before, and after the accident, it would be banned in space, and it would appear that the station's resource had ended long ago, the main thing is that Russia's space products have become "toxic"! Rogozin, the manager, is also very weak, it is difficult for him to understand that Roskosmos should be precisely Roscosmos, and not an orbital transport company. Carriage, there should be only a minor part of the work.
PS In my opinion, the proposal from RSC Energia is very interesting and promising. You can always upgrade standard modules, change, modernize. Such a structure of an orbital station is much more convenient than large specialized modules around which smaller ones are located. Plus, the same technology can be used for the lunar station. We must do it now, and not catch up with Musk later, who, having slightly changed the idea, will easily pass off as his own.

[APASUS]

The whole point of the ISS segment construction was to drop the spent modules and replace them with new ones. Again they missed something or just went to build their own station.

[donavi49]

The whole point of segment construction is that it is the simplest and lowest-risk option for building a station. Emphasis on Shuttles, and then on the size of the missiles.

It is almost impossible to unhook Zarya, she and Unity are tightly linked. Even if you unhook it (and this is almost unrealistic), then you need to hook something - and there is no second Zarya even in the project.

[slipped]

Quote: donavi49

It is almost impossible to unhook Zarya, she and Unity are tightly linked.

Who told you that they were going to "unhook Zarya"? do not be nonsense. Will flood together with the American segment.

[donavi49]

ISS was about dropping spent modules and replacing with new ones

Well, I answered the person above. There is no Dawn 2 in the project, it is almost impossible to unhook Dawn 1.

[Brturin]

Quote: donavi49

It's almost impossible to unhook Zarya

Zarya, Zarya ... there is such an opinion ...
Because the Zarya module (made by the Russians, but owned by the Americans who bought it) has an American camera. - https://tsargrad-tv.turbopages.org/tsargrad.tv/s/articles/ssha-i-dyrka-tajna-pervoj-diversii-v-kosmose-raskryta_256902

[Kart]

Well, everything, the trolls saw in the article the keyword from the manual.
Now chairs will begin to undermine massively about Roscosmos and Rogozin.

[rruvim]

There are no complaints about Rogozin! Not a single accident for its, how to say, quality control. All products of Roskosmos, created precisely under Rogozin (his management), reached orbits. Rogozin always said, and I think he also remained with his opinion, that Russia is in a position and in "strength", also financially, to create its own orbital station. It is YOURS!

[anjey]

refuse further participation in the ISS program and focus on the creation of the Russian space station

Why not, self-sufficiency and independence in Space is the prerogative of the Superpower.

[Hog]

The proposal is good, only there is no money for its implementation.

[Igor Tikhomirov]

Quote: Hog

The proposal is good, only there is no money for its implementation.

And everything else is not there either.

[KAVBER]

It's high time to launch world 2, on a modern technical base, with a dock for shuttles, and revive the topic of snowstorms at the same time, the same taking into account the development of technology. And the ISS for scrap, they will answer us for the first world.

[nznz]

I remember a similar state of déjà vu. The army is collapsed, the Minister of Defense suddenly put some kind of stool furniture maker .. it took a little time and suddenly it turns out that the army has been reorganized, the old marshals who were hanging on the army with a load left. All without revolutionary processes. And the cherry on the cake is the best weapon in the world that no one has.
This is the style

I think Rogozin will be hanged with dogs, kicked out and forgiven like Serdyukov. He knows what he is doing and why. We are not. we'll see

[fa2998]

Quote: Ilya-spb

We need to build our own, Russian orbital station.

Maybe we will come up with something NEW? How many circles around the Earth, 60 years is not enough? This is Korolev, launched Gagarin, and we practically on that rocket, purely quantitatively increase the number of astronauts. Yes, they are sure of this, but from scratch they can come up with something We are just making fun of the Mask, but we can do the salaries for the Roscosmos leadership.

[Guru]

will make it completely independent from the rest of the station.

This is the key phrase in the article.

[Antifreeze]

There would be an orbital tug, and the problem with its own orbital station would be solved. Must be done before 2024

[rruvim]

Yes Yes! More warp drive and Royce's field. In general, they would have been in "chocolate" ...

[Vadim237]

It was promised in 2010 as well as the Lunar version, as well as the base on the Moon, they promised ten years have passed Russia has fallen into third place in launches, the accident rate of launches has increased several times as the marriage in production has been crap for the second time with Soyuz 2 for Kuru, the first time the tube leaked on the upper stage the second time they found a defective valve, they are now starting to sing again about flights to the moon, the base on the moon only by 2030 - and I'm more than sure that in 2030 nothing of this will happen again, but there will be a speech by Rogozin and the command "I'm tired I'm leaving" "Roscosmos needs reform"

[slipped]

Quote: Vadim237

the accident rate of launches has increased several times

Has come to naught.

Quote: Vadim237

how a marriage in production was the second time crap with Soyuz 2 for Kuru the first time the tube flowed on the booster block the second time the valve was found defective

You are all right with your head, who is "crap" there? Here Europeans with Vega and confused connectors on the cardan of the Ukrainian-made engine really shit.

And our rocket is already on the launch pad and preparing for the day after tomorrow's launch:

Quote: Vadim237

now they are again beginning to sing about Mriya about flights to the Moon base on the Moon only by 2030 - and I am more than sure that in 2030 nothing of this will happen again, but there will be a speech by Rogozin and the command "I'm tired I'm leaving"

You at least add IMHO to this nonsense of yours.

[Vadim237]

Unfortunately, everything indicates that it will be so - nothing breakthrough in the space sphere except for Nuclon will be created in Russia until 2030.

[slipped]

Quote: Vadim237

Unfortunately, everything indicates that it will be so - nothing breakthrough in the space sphere except for Nuclon will be created in Russia until 2030.

What do you have there?

Unfortunately, you are not aware of what is being created now in Russia in the field of manned astronautics.

For example, firstly, very soon, literally in three and a half years in 2024, they will make and launch a module for the ISS of a new design, which will subsequently be the base unit of our domestic station and all the following modules, including the modules of the Lunar Base, will already be created by this technology.

Secondly, two and a half years later, in 2023, the first heavy PTK NP will be launched at the A5P from Vostochny.

This is all that is called in the near future and in the current Federal Space Program.

As for scientific space, in the coming years (2021, 2023 and 2024) we have three launches to the Moon and the laying of the Lunar test site and one to Mars (2022) with a long-lived station. In addition, also the conclusion of a new, breakthrough in astrophysics, the Spectrum-UV observatory (2025th).

And in applied astronautics - the Sphere project.

[Stavorg]

Well, if this is stated, then there is an opportunity and resources .. Heavy missiles "Angara", etc. are waiting. I think Russia will pull its orbital station and can make good money on this in the future, if we talk about the benefits .. But this will not be the main thing.

[rruvim]

RSC Energia is also that "European" office, forgive me for the expression, which, through the ISS theme, brought to the West a lot of "dough" to certain individuals. And even now Rogozin was forced to appoint comrade Azar to watch until the 25th year, for this scheme of withdrawing the dough to the West. "Investing" in "Unions is really profitable! And in cosmonauts as well! An egghead friend of mine has calculated that 124 subcontractors are" signed "only on the Orlan spacesuit. a scam that does not bring any scientific or other discoveries for the members of the swindlers on the legalization of the dough. But this scam is not our know-how, it is "supposedly" international! Peace, labor, gum!

[Igor Tikhomirov]

Quote: KAVBER

It's high time to launch world 2, on a modern technical base, with a dock for shuttles, and revive the topic of snowstorms at the same time, the same taking into account the development of technology.

No comment.

[Whirlwind]

The ISS is a symbol of Russia's lack of sovereignty in Space, and therefore on Earth.
Therefore, the Day of the appearance of Russia's own COP will become a real Holiday of the phenomenon of the restored sovereignty of Russia on Earth and in Space!

[aristok]

a person in orbit has nothing to do - you need to immediately burrow under the lunar surface, and learn how to use lunar resources for life support systems - try to minimize the traffic from the Earth to the Moon.
Some kind of intermediate stages such as VOCs and the ISS are evil imposed by bureaucrats and politicians.

[Leonid Batsura]

A person, especially for the vast territory of Russia, needs to be constantly present in orbit with coverage from Kushka to the North Pole. The station must be equipped with all the necessary means of remote monitoring of the Earth: both for "manual" use and operating in automatic mode, regardless of the cosmonaut at the station - except for servicing the equipment at the station. The moon is a whim and a lie. It is impossible to obtain any economic benefit for Russia from the presence of a man on the Moon - yet, in the next 50 years. What is a Man on the Moon? Imagine a spacesuit for a man in space orbit! In six hours in open space, a person unscrews and tightens three four nuts. Is the same spacesuit for the Moon or the American Apollo "Adidas"? That is, the Earth must be economically depleted in order to ensure human life on the Moon ... In contrast to this whim, you need to constantly monitor your territory from orbit

[zwlad]

So that decision is correct. ISS grows decrepit every year. And I don't think we need such a huge station. We must do our own. Let the "partners" also build themselves.

[Maalkavianin]

More likely to create a weapon. And then there will be some kind of missiles that in the future, if necessary, will blow up the stations of other states. This is much more real than a national station.

[Vadim237]

There is already X 37B and in 2022 the Dream Chaser will be added to them, you can place space weapons on them the same kinetic missile interceptors - with which it will be possible to hit satellite stations, launching missiles and other ships on LEO GPO GSO.

[Zaurbek]

There were some other questions about the flight path. The Mir Station had a profitable RF, and the ISS was not profitable for us ... I read it somewhere.

[Leonid Batsura]

The ISS covers only the South of Russia, but it is needed at least to the latitude of Murmansk. Therefore, you need to connect the transporter to change the orbital plane. This can be done using the upper stage (RB) or DM, or "Briz-M"
"Master master" The RB can be withdrawn either by the "Proton-M" launch vehicle or even by one of the "sevens". The peculiarity of "Briz-M" is that it can remain docked for an indefinitely long time to correct the station's orbit

[Leonid Batsura]

Reasonable offer. Moreover, the business of creating your own station to start immediately

[rruvim]

Quote: Leonid Batsura

"Breeze-M" is that it can remain docked indefinitely to correct the station's orbit

Oh really? In "Baumanka" laugh ...