Ex-Prime Minister of Armenia: 80 percent of our army is not - this is a defeat

Today the former Prime Minister of the Republic of Armenia (in office from 1993 to 1996) Hrant Bagratyan made a statement regarding the situation that is developing in Armenia itself, Nagorno-Karabakh, as well as around the stopped conflict in general. This statement caused a wide public discussion in Armenia itself and abroad.

In the words of Hrant Bagratyan, expressed at a meeting with journalists, “we must admit not just complete defeat, but defeat”.

Ex-Prime Minister of Armenia, leader of the Azatutyun party:

80 percent of our army is gone. The army is defeated. This is no secret. Azerbaijanis have calculated how much tanks, guns, and other equipment remained on their territories.

Bagratyan noted several reasons for this result. In his opinion, the main reason is political:

Armenia did not recognize the independence of the Republic of Artsakh. And this, as we understood, was a big mistake. As a deputy, I raised this issue at least twice. Two hours after the start of the war on September 27, I proposed recognizing Artsakh. But nobody did that. But several countries would recognize Artsakh if ​​we did it. It's just that Nikol (Pashinyan) didn't have the courage to recognize independence. I miss her even now

.

According to Hrant Bagratyan, the escalation of anti-Russian sentiments was also a mistake. He noted that during the current globalization, Armenia should be together with Russia:

We need to be with the Russians, otherwise we will be with the Turks ...

Bagratyan also noted that Armenia "offended Iran" with its pro-Western sentiments, which cut off the supply of goods through its territory during the conflict. The ex-prime minister of Armenia called the deterioration of relations with Tbilisi and "slapping China in the face" other strategic mistakes.

Bagratyan said that many people supported Armenia in words, but there was no military assistance:

For example, you can wear socks in the color of our tricolor with Justin Trudeau (Prime Minister of Canada), but only when the war comes, there will still be no cartridges from him. And from Merkel will not. And from Britain. She generally thwarted the discussion of the conflict in the UN Security Council.

In his speech, Bagratyan stated that “there are rumors about the current president of Armenia that he is associated with the British MI6”.

Comments

[Theodore]

Who is guilty ? What to do ? Abidly slush!

[KAVBER]

The blame is the NATO project for the collapse of the USSR, which ours missed and which was 50% successful, they realized only when they began to tear pieces from Russia. To make a good face with a bad game and asks to return to Russia on any terms, otherwise they will enter Turkey and already on Turkish terms.

[Leeds]

According to Wikipedia, the NKR Defense Army had more armored vehicles than the Armenian Armed Forces 2 or more times in T-72, for example. And now, almost everything that was cut or captured on the move. Remained, again judging by Vicki, a little more than 100 tanks, and what is their condition, xs, all the best was probably on the front line and burned out. So he's right.

[Torins]

Most were not burned but captured. How?

[Suleiman]

Quiet, slow and gradual.

[OgnennyiKotik]

There is information from the published videos. On it, Azerbaijan captured more armored vehicles than it lost. Moreover, tanks more than 2 times. Azerbaijan lost 31 pieces, captured 66 pieces.

Losses of Armenia:
1) Tanks - 185 units. (of which 66 units were captured as trophies):
2) Armored combat vehicles - 44 units. (of which 20 units were captured as trophies):
3) Infantry fighting vehicles - 43 units. (of which 22 were captured as trophies):
4) Self-propelled anti-tank systems - 3 units. (of which 2 were captured as trophies):
5) Towed artillery - 147 units. (of which 27 were captured as trophies):
6) Self-propelled artillery - 19 units. (of which 2 were captured as trophies):
7) Multiple launch rocket systems - 72 units. :
8) OTRK - 1 unit. - P-17 "Scud-B"
9) Mortars - 16 units.
10) ATGM - 52 units. captured as trophies incl. 8 TPK and optical devices.
11) MANPADS - 2 units. Igla-S captured as trophies
12) Anti-aircraft missile systems - 26 units. :
13) radar - 12 units. :
14) Electronic warfare / REP machines - 2 units. :
15) Aviation - 1 unit. - Su-25K
16) UAV - 4 units.
17) Automotive equipment (Kamaz, Ural, etc.) - 451 (of which 230 were captured as trophies)
18) False targets - 2 units. (Wasps)

More details here: https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2020/09/the-fight-for-nagorno-karabakh.html

[Yujanin]

New trophies

[Amin_vivec]

at 10 seconds is BMP-3 near the wall? briefly show.

[Herman 4223]

Most likely Azerbaijani, they have it in service.

[Amin_vivec]

It is still some kind of desert or similar color, clearly differs from the Karabakh.

[Yujanin]

at 10 seconds is BMP-3 near the wall? briefly show.

Our BMP-3. Most likely they were brought up for repair.

[Archivist Vasya]

at 1:12 like an M-55 on a motorcycle? There are a lot of barrels, but not much sense, a very old anti-aircraft gun. You can put it in a museum.

[OgnennyiKotik]

Losses of Armenia:
1) Tanks - 200 units. (of which 73 units were captured as trophies)
2) Armored combat vehicles - 53 units. (of which 29 units were captured as trophies)
3) Infantry fighting vehicles - 59 units. (of which 29 were captured as trophies)
4) Self-propelled anti-tank systems - 6 units. (of which 5 were captured as trophies)
5) Towed artillery - 152 units. (of which 31 were captured as trophies)
6) Self-propelled artillery - 22 units. (of which 5 were captured as trophies)
7) Multiple launch rocket systems - 75 units.
8) OTRK - 1 unit. - P-17 "Scud-B"
9) Mortars - 19 units.
10) ATGM - 53 units. captured as trophies incl. 8 TPK and optical devices.
11) MANPADS - 2 units. Igla-S captured as trophies
12) Anti-aircraft missile systems - 27 units.
13) radar station - 12 units.
14) Electronic warfare / electronic warfare vehicles - 2 units.
15) Aviation - 1 unit. - Su-25K 1 unit. - Mi-8
16) UAV - 4 units.
17) Automotive equipment (Kamaz, Ural, etc.) - 507 (of which 255 were captured as trophies)
18) False targets - 2 units. (Wasps).

[Vladimir Mashkov]

Bagratyan is absolutely right that in everything Pashinyan is to blame. And by the recognition of a shameful defeat, or by its recent policy, no. Pashinyan is to blame before Armenia and the Armenians with ALL of his "wonderful policy" from the first day of his premiership! But it is necessary to remove him from office and judge him not immediately and not rashly, but after some time on legal grounds and without confusion. And you need to replace him with a worthy and wise person!

[Observer2014]

Ex-Prime Minister of Armenia: 80 percent of our army is not - this is a defeat

They retreated to prepared positions in Adler.

[Alex777]

It's good that it's not in Rostov ...

[Sergey Tarasov]

No, in Adler there are mostly Abkhazians, but Armenians are also present, of course (where they are not)

[vladimirvn]

Abkhazians are not visible in Adler. And that half of the cars with Abkhazian plates are cunning moves of some residents to optimize taxes. And the number of Armenians has become less visible. A lot of Slavs go for permanent residence. Plus, Armenians are practically not taken for public service, and in serious companies too. Their lot is catering and small hotels.

[Akuzenka]

According to Hrant Bagratyan, the escalation of anti-Russian sentiments was also a mistake. He noted that during the current globalization, Armenia should be together with Russia.

Clever thinking, as always with Russophobes, came after! It's strange that she came. Maybe he has no money left in Western banks ?! So "cuts the truth-uterus"!

[Thrifty]

It's your own fault! When they threw lightly damaged or fully serviceable equipment onto the battlefield, what did they think about? To hijack, or to burn your mind was not enough? Russophobia came out to you as a disaster for the army, what are the conclusions? "One figs are to blame for the Russians because ..." ???

[Alex777]

When they threw lightly damaged or fully serviceable equipment onto the battlefield, what did they think about?

Armenia is a poor country, let's face it. And many things were not right for them. Air defense - first of all.
What is the point of evacuating a tank on a tractor if the drone and the tractor will push it. Didn't you think?

[Akuzenka]

What is the point of evacuating a tank on a tractor if the drone and the tractor will push it. Didn't you think?

That their MANPADS also only knows how to shoot at the ground? Maybe this is the reason for the poor air defense?

[Alex777]

MANPADS are not the best option against a kamikaze drone.
And yes, few people had them. Expensive.
Armenian volunteers told that they were not even given camouflage and armor (they bought everything themselves), only rusty machine guns, and you mean MANPADS ...

[Negruz]

If Armenia is so poor that it doesn't even make sense to evacuate a damaged tank, why would they, in principle, have a working tank, Artsakh and even their own independence?

[Alex777]

Question to the point. If not for Russia, then it would have been.
And for us it is a "safety belt". What is it.

[vlad106]

Quote: Negruz

If Armenia is so poor that it doesn't even make sense to evacuate a damaged tank, why would they, in principle, have a working tank, Artsakh and even their own independence?

There are a lot of unofficial gold-bearing sources in Karabakh. Gold from them was dragged for personal consumption and for rollback to the authorities.
Theft is in their blood

[vlad106]

Quote: Alex777

Armenia is a poor country, let's face it. And many things were not right for them. Air defense - first of all.

Strange! Armenia may be poor because of the theft of the budget. But the same cannot be said about the Armenians themselves. Migrants from armenia who have flooded into Russia travel around Russia in expensive jeeps or alpfards, build hotels and hotels expensive for tens and hundreds of millions over the roads, populate the best territories of the Black Sea region, renting rooms of their expensive guest houses at frenzied prices. Well, for dessert, young loafers roam the hot spots, attack, kill or maim Russian people. So why do we need it?

[Alex777]

Well, for dessert, young loafers roam the hot spots, attack, kill or maim Russian people. So why do we need it?

We don't need this at all.

[Deniso]

Victory has many fathers ... Only defeat is an orphan.

[Observer2014]

Quote: denis obuckov

Victory has many fathers ... Only defeat is an orphan.

There are many fathers; there are even more stepfathers who try to justify defeat.

[halpat]

"Slapping China in the face" wonder how it is?
Did China notice?
The surname is funny, neither you Bagration, nor you Baghramyan :))

[Yujanin]

Who's guilty ? What to do ?

Write off the old Armenian debt for armaments that are not there now, and rearm. Long-term loan.
And then watch how the Armenians re-spend the money of Russian taxpayers.

[Nastia makarova]

rather it will be so

[Bilal]

Why write it off? Just add a new account to what is already there))))

[Artavazdych]

Abidly slush!

Well, if we ignore the irony. 80% of the army is missing? Let's admit. But the battles continued until the last hour. There is a video - these are just battles, no matter how the Azero-Hohlotrolls may be joking. At the time of the ceasefire, soldiers were in Shusha from both sides, and there is a lot of evidence of this.
Tell me then a country whose army has 80% combat losses that do not deprive it of its combat effectiveness ...
Something is wrong here, isn't it?

[Suleiman]

The difference is that the Armenian soldiers in Shusha were in a horizontal position.

[vlad106]

Quote: Suleyman

The difference is that the Armenian soldiers in Shusha were in a horizontal position.

Hmm! On the ground ...

[Imobile]

In 1941, the USSR lost 100% of the army, and survived. The truth was not on their side!

[Woland]

There was no need to seize foreign lands, there was no need to dance on the ruins of mosques, and it was necessary to immediately agree to give up the Azerbaijani 7 districts, without leading to a war .. And about Russian-Armenian relations, there is such a proverb, don't spit in may be. still have to drink. And the Armenians forgot about it. And God punished them.

[mat-vey]

"Former Prime Minister of Armenia: 80 percent of our army is not - this is a defeat" - was there any army at all?

[New Year day]

Quote: mat-vey

Was it even an army?

Who then did the Su and Iskander buy?

[mat-vey]

Quote: Silvestr

Who then did the Su and Iskander buy?

People in uniform - in the army they at least tried to learn how to use them.

[Leeds]

Well at least they didn't shoot down the Su-30. Although it remained a mystery to me why they did not work on UAVs even from the territory of Armenia

[210ox]

The Armenian army remained in the barracks. There was no order. But there was a fake about the use of "Iskander"

[Was mammoth]

Have you read it carefully?
Not the last person reported in Armenia said:
"80 percent of our army is gone. The army is defeated. "
Whose Army? At least G. Bagratyan said a more or less realistic vision of the results of the war. For no real reason. Name a friend of Armenia at the borders. No matter how bitter they are, the Armenians have to look for defeat in themselves. Not even in Pashinyan.
I didn't like it, they chose the wrong patrons. I'm sure friends are not chosen - friendship is not selfish business.
In the early days, I expressed the opinion that regardless of the results of the war, it will bring grief and a new portion of hatred
The Azerbaijanis have solved their territorial problem. Nearly. And most likely forever. Not the Middle Ages, we need economic power to support patriotism.
I sympathize with the mothers of Azerbaijan and Armenia, but the old people finally have some wisdom.

[keeper03]

Pashinyan came to power as a result of a coup! He was installed by the Naglo-Saxons and he fulfills their will, so there is no need to be surprised, but you need to think soberly!

[Suleiman]

What does the Anglo-Saxons have to do with it? Pashinyan was chosen by the Armenians themselves. Do you want to say that the people of Armenia are loyal to Russia, and the ruling elite is loyal to the West? Misconception.

[siemens7774]

There was Mammoth, the client meant the army of Artsakh. The Armenian army did not come to the war.

[Dimon71]

And what to work on the UAV. It turns out that they bought DRYERS and did not buy the missiles !!!!

[Alex777]

Armenians bought dryers instead of TOPs.
A very wise decision in the conditions of Armenia.

[Hello from Baku]

Some Armenian general said that there were no missiles for the SU-30. Didn't buy ...

[Herman 4223]

Chief of the General Staff of the Armenian Army said. Even if they were bought, in order to use them, they had to be handed over to the army of Karabakh, where they would be covered on the ground on the very first day.
Firstly, it is technically difficult to use from the territory of Armenia, the interception range would be enough only for work in the area of ​​30-40 km from the border maximum. Secondly, it is an act of aggression and the possibility of striking a blow at Armenia itself for the Azerbodjan.

[Romka47]

I can't vouch for the information, but there was little or no air-to-air to them. And trained pilots too.

[210ox]

Armenia bought, but not Artsakh. These weapons were never used. There were also Chinese MLRS ...

[Observer2014]

Quote: Silvestr

Quote: mat-vey

Was it even an army?

Who then did the Su and Iskander buy?

Sylvester How much did they buy there? That those Su that Iskander. About nothing. They ruined their show-off. About the most. Naturally paid for their arrogance. And they will occupy their real niche among the peoples in this region.

[Incvizitor]

SU 30, four were, four Iskander.

[Mountain shooter]

Why, as soon as the prefix "ex" appears, the brain returns to the head? Before that?

[Piramidon]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

Why, as soon as the prefix "ex" appears, the brain returns to the head?

They did not return immediately, but after a quarter of a century. He is an "ex" since 1996.

[Herman 4223]

Under him Armenia won a victory. So there were more brains. This is on the one hand, and since he is the same traitor as Pashinyan, he could, as a winner, demand the independence of Artsakh, but did not do this thereby dooming the region to a new war in the future. He could not help but understand that Azerbaijan, with a three times larger population and oil feeding the economy, would tolerate such a state of affairs. He acted not in the interests of Armenia in that case, but of some external forces that would benefit from freezing the conflict for the future.

[Negruz]

Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates have a hundred times more oil than the Houthis in Yemen, the population - tens ... But, "something went wrong" (c)

[Herman 4223]

It also happens, but the difference in population there seems to be less than that of Armenia and Azerbaijan. Yes, if you think about it, the war is still going on in Yemen and not Saudi Arabia. And no one really knows what losses on both sides are.

[vlad106]

Quote: Herman 4223

He could not help but understand that Azerbaijan, with a three times larger population and oil feeding the economy, would tolerate such a state of affairs. He did not act in the interests of Armenia

Well, the Armenians are the most talented and wisest in that region. and in general in the world)

[Sidor Amenpodestovich]

As a deputy, I raised this issue at least twice. Two hours after the start of the war on September 27, I proposed recognizing Artsakh. But nobody did that.

Here, either a citation error, or not only everyone can understand this passage. Few can do it.

[Vadim_888]

There is no army now

.

[Vadim_888]

Removed the insert, which is a pity

[Lt. Air Force stock]

The main mistake was that the army did not have enough modern weapons. There were 4 Su-30SM, Iskander, MLRS, etc. What's the point?
1. There was no military air defense, it was necessary to purchase Torahs and use them not one by one, but 8-12 launchers per covered area, and not the old Osa air defense systems.
2. There were no modern means of electronic warfare
3. There were no drones, namely, loitering ammunition could help, especially if Armenia had hundreds of them, even Turkey with F16 would not have helped.

[Leeds]

According to point 3, we don't even have them

[kenig1]

Russia offered to tie our and Armenian air defense systems into one system, but Pashinyan refused.

[the finish]

Incorrect information. She is the general air defense of the Russian Federation with the RA.

[Avior]

To buy Torah, drones and other electronic warfare money you need to have
Armenia has had big problems with this for a long time

[AGGURD]

Quote: Lt. Air Force stock

The main mistake was that the army did not have enough modern weapons. There were 4 Su-30SM, Iskander, MLRS, etc. What's the point?
1. There was no military air defense, it was necessary to purchase Torahs and use them not one by one, but 8-12 launchers per covered area, and not the old Osa air defense systems.
2. There were no modern means of electronic warfare
3. There were no drones, namely, loitering ammunition could help, especially if Armenia had hundreds of them, even Turkey with F16 would not have helped.

if Armenia had all of the above, then believe me, Azerbaijan would acquire twice as much and naturally special equipment against such weapons ...

[Herman 4223]

There, apparently, even the ATGM was not in sufficient quantity, what kind of barrage ammunition.

[paul3390]

After an unsuccessful battle, Napoleon called the chief of artillery and sharply asked him why the guns had not fired.
He began to make excuses: “We had several reasons for this. Firstly, the gunpowder has ended ... "
"Enough!" - interrupted Napoleon

[Antifreeze]

Armenia did not recognize the independence of the Republic of Artsakh. And this, as we understood, was a big mistake

escalation of anti-Russian sentiment was also a mistake

Many have grown wiser in hindsight

[zenion]

It is not clear how this can be? The army consisted of two divisions of one hundred men each?

[X-factor]

They were killed by more than 10k and, according to the laws of war, three more wounded. They just keep silent. Even if you count how many in tanks, armored vehicles and in the Urals there should be a crew, which equipment was destroyed from the UAV, then already more than 3k people are doing. And also tornadoes, mortars, cannons did their work ... even with simple knives, hundreds of Armenian soldiers were slaughtered ... In one current of Shusha, 1 Armenians were killed in one night.
And how many more were taken prisoner and how many deserted. That's 80% of the army. And that's in 44 days. If Pashinyan had not signed the agreement, then more than one Armenian soul would not have been in Nagorno-Karabakh.

[Li17]

All of them are good there and on both sides they threw out such a trick ... And if something does not work, they begin to moan and take offense! Cunning, deceit and cruelty are the norm for all of them there!

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

about the current president of Armenia "there are rumors that he is connected with the British MI6."

They lie of course ... He is not connected with British intelligence, but with the American intelligence service with the CIA.

It is obvious. It is evident from the deeds of this traitor.

[Holsten]

Why does Russia need the Armenian army?

[MrFox]

What does the Armenian army and Karabakh have to do with it? Or is it an admission that Armenia fought in Karabakh?

[Herman 4223]

Oddly enough, with the agreement on the withdrawal of troops, Armenia actually admitted it.

[primala]

According to Hrant Bagratyan: "-We need to be with the Russians, otherwise we will be with the Turks ..."
==============
They came to their senses. (a little late).
In my opinion, if NK is not recognized as an independent republic, the conflict will continue at the suggestion of Azerbaijan and Turkey. Then remember my comment.
Armenia is in the grip of the Muslim world. And if you DO NOT accept the Tax Code into the Russian Federation, you yourself understand ... where the consequences will lead ...

[Herman 4223]

It is not Karabakh that needs to be recognized here, but the illegal decisions on the dissolution of the USSR must be canceled through the courts or at the request of the people. And demand the illegally taken away territories back. The governments of the countries of the former USSR are separatists. This must be admitted. Then there will be peace and order.

[vlad106]

Quote: primaala

According to Hrant Bagratyan: "-We need to be with the Russians, otherwise we will be with the Turks ..."
==============
They came to their senses. (a little late).
In my opinion, if NK is not recognized as an independent republic, the conflict will continue at the suggestion of Azerbaijan and Turkey. Then remember my comment.
Armenia is in the grip of the Muslim world. And if you DO NOT accept the Tax Code into the Russian Federation, you yourself understand ... where the consequences will lead ...

I needed you with your Karabakh

[Andrei Nikolaevich]

How can you destroy, what is not? Next time, order Soros, a couple of divisions, as an attachment to the revolution.

[parusnik]

Who's to blame that you're tired
I didn't find what I was waiting for
I lost everything that I was looking for
Rose in the sky and fell
And whose fault is that day after day
Life is leaving in a strange way
And your house has become lonely
And empty outside your window
And the light fades and the sounds fall silent
And new torments are looking for hands
And if your pain subsides
So there will be a new trouble
..........................................
There are no victories without defeat
And the score of good luck and trouble is equal
And whose fault is you alone
And life is one and so long
And so boring, and you keep waiting
That you will die someday

[VyacheSeymour]

According to Hrant Bagratyan, the escalation of anti-Russian sentiments was also a mistake. He noted that during the current globalization, Armenia should be together with Russia:

In principle, he is not against anti-Russian sentiments, if it did not lead to the current situation, and if so, then a mistake!

[seregin-s1]

But in Armenia there is the largest US embassy and it was not damaged!

[primala]

In in. And moreover, a huge territory is set aside for the US Embassy. No other country in the world has such "scope". (who is interested to know in m2 - find the info).

[Deniso]

When ambition goes ahead of reason and blind faith in good Uncle Joe, do not expect good.

[andrew42]

Uncle Sam, Sam! (Uncle Joe was called the Americans of Comrade Stalin).

[Scorpio05]

Quote: Leeds

Well at least they didn't shoot down the Su-30. Although it remained a mystery to me why they did not work on UAVs even from the territory of Armenia

In fact, one Su-30 was shot down, and it was after this that the flights of Armenians on dry land stopped.

[Scorpio05]

Quote: MrFox

What does the Armenian army and Karabakh have to do with it? Or is it an admission that Armenia fought in Karabakh?

No, of course, the army fought there as much as the 60-thousandth Nagorno-Karabakh microdistrict, that is, education

[flicker]

It seems that Armenia is waking up and starting to think in real categories, not illusory ones.

[Dkuznecov]

Woke up, yes. All the people fled.
In 1986 I was in Yerevan / Ashtarak / Echmiadzin.
Paradise for speculators / resellers.

[flicker]

Paradise for speculators / dealers

Didn't the Armenians do anything else?
There were no scientists, no designers, filmmakers, doctors, etc. among them?

[Dkuznecov]

Look at the year.

It will become clear what the designer was doing,
filmmakers and doctors. and "etc." as you put it.

The union was already falling into the abyss. Everyone survived as best they could
I did not convey a negative context.

And I, personally, will forgive Armenia for any sins,
(if God forbid there are)
only because she gave birth to one son - Sero Khanzadyan.

I am his war diary "Three years and 291 days",
I know by heart.

Diary of a soldier, boys at all,
from the first day of the war to the last,
in Königsberg.

I still don't understand how a war diary
without cuts were generally admitted to publication.
Those who have read will understand.

[CommanderDIVA]

"We need to be with the Russians, otherwise we will be with the Turks ..." - even here this gentleman is disingenuous, not with the Turks, but under the Turks, look the truth in the eyes of the Armenians

[Dkuznecov]

According to the rules of the Russian language, both prepositions
must be identical,
otherwise there will be a bias in meaning.
that is: "we need to be under ... otherwise we will be under ..."

[Alt 22]

In this case, it would be correct to write - "We had to be with the Russians, otherwise we will be UNDER the Turks." Russia has never hesitated to crush and seize Armenia, unlike Turkey.

[APASUS]

And we have already seen it. Remember Gorbachev, quietly, peacefully, without fuss, sold the Union and dumped it under the wing, to his owners. And now he puffs his cheeks and is very surprised that he is hated in Russia

[Dkuznecov]

I know Gorbachev personally. He's just a burdock, even
he did not take compensation from the FRG.
Here Yeltsin is to blame. With the Belovezhskaya agreements.
And IMF loans.

[Essex62]

And what, he had to confess to you that he plows for the Masons? This "burdock" methodically knocked out all the remaining true communists from the power structures, the Office and the army, creating the basis for a coup d'etat. Didn't take compensation? What for? It is better to bring the most efficient grouping of troops into an open field and leave it there. Let it decay and become embittered against Soviet power. This "mug" carried out a unique operation to reformat the consciousness of Soviet people, poisoning his own T-shirt and jeans closer to the body with the poison of bourgeois morality. EBN only formalized everything into political and structural decisions, under the strict guidance of the local owners. There are very big doubts that it was he who, in 93, gave the order to fire at the White House from tanks. A very muddy story, it is not clear what kind of crews, who from the command gave the order?

[andrew42]

Mishka Yegupop was actually not the kind of mug he wanted to appear after the collapse of the Soviet Union. Another thing is that he was not alone there. There was a Caudle intact. And if Yakovleva, Shevardnadze's names are still on the floor, then 3-4 dozen Central Committee and regional committee workers are not exposed at all.

[Dkuznecov]

And he locked himself on Foros?
No, there was another force at work.

[Dkuznecov]

From this story, the ears of those who poked
IMF loans later.
Here in China, privatization is being revised now.
With organizational leads, of course, caliber 7.62.

[Essex62]

So we write about the same thing. Only you consider the hunchbacked dandelion-burdock, and I consider the smart, cunning and cunning enemy of the Soviet people. It is precisely such reasoning that gives grounds for the liberda lured by the West and the backsliders of all stripes to assert that the coup was staged by the people. Hell no. Thought-out, planned and superb (I have to agree) carried out an operation of the power coup from above, and a change in the consciousness of the population. With the help of a recruited traitor, who knows how he fell on the main Kremlin stool. There were attempts to stop the process by grassroots party organizations and individual communists. When we learned about the idle trains with essential goods in the settling tanks of the railway, guarded by the Vovans (?) We came to the secretary of the district committee with a question - why. The shops are empty and here it is, he poked his finger at the ceiling and threw up his hands.
A very finely planned provocation. To shake Moscow into a riot and seize the initiative. And yet, yes, Gorbachev sat down in Foros himself. He was no longer needed, the time was coming for military actions. It is strange that two more years passed without firing, although they cleaned up during this time with high quality.

[Negruz]

"With the help of a traitor who was recruited and who knows how to fall on the main Kremlin stool" - what does it mean, who knows how? It is known how: nominated, by a real communist, mister niet loudly, to implement the plan of changes developed under the real communist Brezhnev for the real communist Andropov, but in connection with his death and the arrival of the real communist Chernenko temporarily shelved ...

[Essex62]

The main role here is rather Andropov. Judging by the way the Office behaved, observing inertly, after all, it is not possible, in such a short time, to "recast" 100% of the employees, it has matured in its depths. An officer can have his own opinion, but it is not accepted to express, one-man command. Those who performed strongly were fired, and who were killed. The results we have were not foreseen. Rather, something similar to the NEP. Only salable
spinning the flywheel to the fullest, there is no doubt that they were in charge. Up to a complete change of the social system. In general, consumer goods have cost dearly to our people in abundance.

[APASUS]

Quote: DKuznecov

I know Gorbachev personally. He's just a burdock, even
he did not take compensation from the FRG.
Here Yeltsin is to blame. With the Belovezhskaya agreements.
And IMF loans.

What did Gorbachev do to save the USSR? Nothing .................. he is an ordinary coward
Whether he was three times a burdock, it was with tacit consent that disintegration processes began

[Gennady Fomkin]

According to Hrant Bagratyan, the escalation of anti-Russian sentiments was also a mistake. He noted that during the current globalization, Armenia should be together with Russia:

We need to be with the Russians, otherwise we will be with the Turks ... It's too late to drink Borjomi when the kidneys fail, you can't re-stick the labels from MADE IN IRAN to Made in Armenia.

[Zomanus]

No, it's just that Pashinyan chose the wrong person to lie under.
They went to the Americans, they built the largest embassy in the world.
But the card did not play, since for the sake of bedding no one will strain.

[Gennady Fomkin]

Strange people. They themselves chose him, now they are unhappy. You were told about the magpie. What will he hand over with giblets. Now what to howl then? You have chosen - answer. Russia does not need anything from Armenia ... simply because Armenia has nothing. Except for the border with beloved Turkey, gy-s-s ... But this is a purely Armenian problem.

[iouris]

Without options: either he is an agent of the Kremlin, then he is an agent of MI6. We pose the question: who benefits? Let's look at the results: the weapons supplied to Armenia as an ally for defense against Turkey ended up in Turkey. Azerbaijan turned out to be a protectorate of Turkey. The Turks almost ended up in Karabakh. The invaders almost came to Yerevan. But Pashinyan, having signed the armistice agreement, being a "guarantor" will remain prime minister for "some" time. I wonder if they will stop if 100% of their army is defeated?
And further. And Aliyev is the same MI6 agent.
Attention is the question: is it not in London that the money of the main defendants is kept, and not with MI6, are the hopes of the defendants connected for further prosperity?
Conclusion: the situation is model.
This is how they finish off the USSR. And don't ask for whom the bell tolls.

[Azimuth]

As a result, Armenia's losses will not be higher than 5000 killed and 12000 wounded, which is only 17000, despite the fact that Armenia can deploy something no less than 150000 army, and so it has deployed up to 80000.
Azerbaijan knocked out equipment, but the battles ended in relief and conditions where manpower, artillery, air defense were important, plus Armenia before the war and during it received dozens of anti-tank complexes, missiles, etc.
So there is no 80% defeat there, there is only fear, desertion of about 10000 and evasion from mobilizing tens of thousands. Neither the authorities who had their own plans, nor the people were ready, or rather did not want to fight. And all these statements like the former prime minister have only one goal to overthrow Pashinyan.
The defeat in fact suits everyone in Armenia, except for the Karabakh people, who, as I understand it, got the whole of Armenia with their parochialism and corruption in the past. Whoever writes with us, judging by my communication with the Armenians, Pashinyan still has support, and we do not have an alternative candidate whom we could propose to the Armenians instead of him. The Karabakh people, and their friend VVP Kocharyan also belongs to them, will not pass, the Armenians are fed up with the Karabakh people. That is, our story seems to be with Yanyk - we do not grow an alternative and put our eggs in one basket.

[Dkuznecov]

So unexpected ...

[Zomanus]

80% of the Armenian army in Russia trades in the markets.
And they can only fight in a crowd against one,
judging by the crime statistics.
Well, perhaps they were not motivated to defend Karabakh.

[nerovnayadoroga]

Being in 2018 in Armenia, at work, I watched the departure of troops for exercises, missile defense systems, art, beardless young flimsy boys sit in cars for l / s and in pursuit of a column in foreign cars of rather high-status go with beer and so on, officers and sergeants, listening music and orom performing bacchanalia in English, cool, but better than in clumsy Russian. Even then, for me personally it became clear what kind of "army" it was !!!

[vlad106]

Quote: Zomanus

80% of the Armenian army in Russia trades in the markets.
And they can only fight in a crowd against one,
judging by the crime statistics ..

Of the 5,5 million Armenians located in Russia, several armies could be assembled to protect the hatsrah.
however the traders didn't want to risk their ass

[vlad106]

Quote: Zomanus

Zomanus (Alexey)
26 November 2020 02: 24
80% of the Armenian army in Russia trades in the markets.
And they can only fight in a crowd against one,
judging by the crime statistics.

95% in trade, the rest run the Russian media.
And yet, yes, Shmara Bakhdasoryan drives a street racer around Moscow and burns winter tires

[vlad106]

Quote: Zomanus

80% of the Armenian army in Russia trades in the markets.
And they can only fight in a crowd against one,
judging by the crime statistics.

Yes, probably all 95% ...
Some of them are in road construction. Rather, on the "money laundering" of road construction, and a significant part of it penetrated the Russian media, law enforcement agencies, etc.

[Li17]

Quote: Alex777

It's good that it's not in Rostov ...

So Rostov near Chaltyr, everything is quiet there!

[DominickS]

It's your own fault. They wanted to eat the fish and sit on the chair. Now let them cry as much as they like that the star-striped owner did not come to the rescue. And Russia owes nothing to these parasites.

[oracul]

As some may not regret it, the time has come to throw stones in Armenia. I hope that the Armenians will have enough intelligence and strength to collect them, not hoping that others will do it for them.

[certero]

Quote: Alex777

Armenia is a poor country, let's face it.

Then a poor country needs to closely monitor its bazaar.

[vlad106]

Quote: certero

Then a poor country needs to closely monitor its bazaar

they don't show that they are beggars.
they all have bags of money, and 30% have stacks of greens ...

[Scorpio05]

Quote: 210ox

The Armenian army remained in the barracks. There was no order. But there was a fake about the use of "Iskander"

You probably know the situation in the Armenian army better than the Armenian politicians and the military) Armenian politicians and the military themselves claim that their army is defeated, and you probably know for sure that the Armenian army did not leave the barracks?) New Armenian trend among propagandists (developing garbage Armenian resources in Yandex) to justify the shame of the Armenian Armed Forces? And, therefore, the army of a half-empty micro-district called Nagorno-Karabakh was at war, i.e. courageous Stepanakert pensioners? Well comedians)) And the thousands of killed servicemen of the Armenian Armed Forces (exclusively citizens of Armenia) indicated on the website of the Armenian Defense Ministry teleported to Karabakh, as well as 500 units of equipment of the Armenian army taken as trophies by the Azerbaijanis? Are you not tired of talking about the great army of Nagorno-Karabakh?))

[Scorpio05]

Quote: iouris

Without options: either he is an agent of the Kremlin, then he is an agent of MI6. We pose the question: who benefits? Let's look at the results: the weapons supplied to Armenia as an ally for defense against Turkey ended up in Turkey. Azerbaijan turned out to be a protectorate of Turkey. The Turks almost ended up in Karabakh. The invaders almost came to Yerevan. But Pashinyan, having signed the armistice agreement, being a "guarantor" will remain prime minister for "some" time. I wonder if they will stop if 100% of their army is defeated?
And further. And Aliyev is the same MI6 agent.
Attention is the question: is it not in London that the money of the main defendants is kept, and not with MI6, are the hopes of the defendants connected for further prosperity?
Conclusion: the situation is model.
This is how they finish off the USSR. And don't ask for whom the bell tolls.

Why bother, write that everyone around is MI6 agents, and you alone are not. Didn't show interest in you))

[Evgeny Seleznev]

Drink Borjomi when your kidneys are broken.

[Bilal]

Quote: 210ox

Armenia bought, but not Artsakh. These weapons were never used. There were also Chinese MLRS ...

How could the Karabakh Armenians "buy" if they live on subsidies from Armenia? And their budget entirely consists of grants to Armenia and handouts of "fat" Armenians from all over the world ...

[Seal]

Quote: Alex777

Armenia is a poor country, let's face it. And many things were not right for them. Air defense - first of all.

Since the collapse of the USSR and until 2020, the foreign diaspora gave Armenia and Karabakh about $ 100 BILLION. And I understand that this is almost 30 years, but nevertheless.

[astra wild2]

I am the only smart one, and all are not fixable fools.

[Egor53]

But it's good that Armenia has no army left. Good for Russia. There will be no one to attack our base in Armenia.
And the population of Armenia, I think, will decrease by 2 times. True, this is bad for Russia. We already have an abundance of Armenians.