New 120-mm JAO "Lotos" for the Airborne Forces enters the stage of preliminary tests

The newest self-propelled artillery gun "Lotos", developed in the interests of the Airborne Forces, has completed acceptance tests and is preparing for the start of the preliminary tests. The press service of Rostec reports.

According to the report, preliminary tests of "Lotus" will begin before the end of this year, the gun has already conducted the first firing. The military representation in TsNIITOCHMASH signed an official document on the compliance of the prototype of the CAO with the working design documentation and readiness for preliminary tests.

It is specified that within the framework of the acceptance test program, which consists of 57 points, "Lotos" covered 400 km and fired 14 shots. This stage made it possible to assess the performance of all units, mechanisms and instruments of the tool.

The airborne amphibious gun "Lotos" showed itself perfectly during the completed acceptance tests. The combat vehicle fully meets the requirements for weight and size characteristics and at the same time has an impressive speed, rate of fire and range of fire. We expect the next stage - preliminary tests - to begin this year

- said the industrial director of the state corporation Bekkhan Ozdoev.

Let us recall that acceptance tests of the Lotos JSC began in the summer of this year, and on August 1, a dynamic display of the Lotus to the public was performed at the Alabino training ground (Moscow Region) as part of the celebrations dedicated to the 90th anniversary of the Airborne Forces (Airborne Forces) ...

The newest airborne floating self-propelled artillery gun "Lotos" was created on the BMD-4M chassis and is intended for the Airborne Forces of the Russian Federation. Mass - 18 tons, speed - up to 70 km / h, power reserve - at least 500 km. Combat crew - 4 man. The rate of fire - 6-8 shots per minute. Firing range - up to 13 km.

CJSC "Lotos" is designed to replace self-propelled 120-mm self-propelled artillery and mortar units 2-9 Nona and its modifications that are in service with the Airborne Forces.

Comments

[Terrible_L.]

A very interesting machine .. Let's hope it will become a worthy successor to "Nona"

[Borik]

The "Nona" weapon will be weaker, so they decided to increase the power. And we got something between "Nona" and "Octopus"

"Can land with a combat crew inside" Maybe Maybe, but not Desirable. Yet it is not so safe.

[hagen]

Quote: Borik

And we got something between "Nona" and "Octopus"

You can't even compare with an octopus. The weapon has completely different characteristics.

[wt100]

Landing in a car, we are allowed during hostilities, but during combat training, it is not, correctly traumatic and technically it happens, something may not work, in a peaceful life it is not acceptable when the entire crew ...

[ProkletyiPirat]

Quote: wt100

when the whole crew ...

that is, when in battle some of the vehicles will be left without crews is it normal? can still not show off and bring to mind the landing system?!? or even better, stop riveting disposable troops and make the Airborne Forces airmobile, at least in terms of human resources, equipment can be abandoned if necessary ...

[wt100]

I repeat:
During hostilities, the landing of troops in vehicles is allowed, not necessarily, but according to the acceptability of the task and the possibilities of its optimal implementation. The corresponding decision is made by the authorized commander on the spot, or is prescribed in an order, an order from above.

And at the expense of the "landing system" to bring to mind. There are also expensive foreign cars in an accident, not an ode the pillow does not work ... and that. For 100 of you, more than one system, no matter how advanced it is, will not save you. Because these systems are not passed only by hands until the moment of landing, but this is a human factor.

[ProkletyiPirat]

I don’t understand this kind of boltology and show off in the style of "no_analogues_in_the_world", nevertheless, it's simple: since they don't use the landing in the car Consequently there is a problem Consequently a jamb of developers (because, due to design solutions, they did not reduce the accident rate to the maximum-minimum values). And your example about foreign cars is not the topic, since no one will buy a foreign car and ride on public transport, and even attach a foreign car to a cable to a bus / trolleybus ...

[EvilLion]

They are already airmobile, but they didn't tell you.

[Bad_gr]

Quote: wt100

Landing in a car, we are allowed during hostilities, but during combat training, it is not, correctly traumatic and technically it happens, something may not work, in a peaceful life it is not acceptable when the entire crew ...

PARCHUTE AND AMPING SYSTEM PBS-950U "BAHCHA-U-PDS" [center][Center]


It is quite reliable. Another question is that the maximum acceleration during landing is up to 15G

[Saxahorse]

Quote: Bad_gr

It is quite reliable. Another question is that the maximum acceleration during landing is up to 15G

They are all quite reliable. But for the time being.

They wrote it, and it is absolutely correct - in peacetime it is better not to test this reliability in public once again.

[ProkletyiPirat]

Quote: Saxahorse

Quote: Bad_gr

It is quite reliable. Another question is that the maximum acceleration during landing is up to 15G

They are all quite reliable. But for the time being.

They're not fucking reliable, don't need this hypocrisy, because there is the main criterion of reliability, it sounds like "use" if not used means unreliable, everything else is demagoguery. Yes, and these same "15G" is also a hypocritical filkin letter, because these DJs are ONLY with a vertical load, and during landing there are also horizontal loads, and it is they that lead to accidents and injuries.

[meandr51]

Everything is unreliable in war. You can, without haste, reliably land separately, and then the whole battalion will cover the MLRS and no one will survive. Or you can land "unreliably" in cars,
immediately give gas and abruptly leave the firing zone. In this case, one car will crash. Which is worse?

[Bad_gr]

Quote: Saxahorse

They wrote it, and it is absolutely correct - in peacetime it is better not to test this reliability in public once again.

I do not argue about peacetime, but not because of unreliability, but as I wrote above, landing acceleration up to 15G. I am aware of the reliability of the parachute system, since I myself was involved in parachuting and that the transport system with 11 canopies is less reliable than that of parachutist 2 (main + reserve), I would not say.

[APASUS]

Quote: Borik

"Can land with a combat crew inside" Maybe Maybe, but not Desirable. Yet it is not so safe.

I remember the test of the Reaktavr landing system, the commander of the Airborne Forces Margelov planted his son. And now .........................
Testers "Reaktavr" - A. V. Margelov and L. I. Shcherbakov.

[Lesorub]

Quote: Borik

The "Nona" weapon will be weaker, so they decided to increase the power. And we got something between "Nona" and "Octopus"

"Lotos" - intended to replace "Nona" - as in its time "Vienna" - but CAO 2S31 were purchased by Azerbaijan and are serving there.

[The leader of the Redskins]

I join. I hope they will be adopted and the paratroopers will appreciate it.

[Alex777]

And about the Lotus, and about the Octopus, talk has been going on for many years, but they are all tested and they are not in the troops. Sadness ...

[nobody75]

Both the Lotus and the Octopus have been talked about for many years, but they are all tested and they are not in the troops

Or maybe it is right, what is not? "Octopus" machine is incomprehensible ... Anti-tank self-propelled gun with a 125mm tank gun and weak armor. How can this octopus be used against tanks? From an ambush?
Can you use it as an assault weapon for the Airborne Forces? I don’t think so.
About replacing "Nona" with "Lotus" ... I think that the decision is forced, which is explained by the fact that the BMD-4M platform does not withstand the recoil of the 152mm gun. From my point of view, all this "mortar" research and development work started the artillery of the Airborne Forces somewhere in the wrong direction. Again "unique" shells are proliferating, and the art itself. The system loses to the Paladin and PzH 2000 in terms of firing range and power of the OFS. Taking into account the fact that the Airborne Forces are increasingly used as light infantry, and not as "Mad Max", the practical value of such systems is questionable ...
Sincerely

[Alex777]

Once a major of the Airborne Forces talked about the situation at 08.08.08.
They stood in the woods, and there was a road in front of them.
And they see how several Georgian tanks come out onto the road and go to the side where our infantry took up positions. Boards to the landing.
And there were paratroopers on the BMP-1. With ATGMs, which never reached the target during the exercises. From old age.
If there was anything, the tanks would be covered. And so - they missed it.
This is just 1 example.
Sincerely.
Shl. Lotus is 120 mm and can shoot mines as well. If I'm not mistaken, trophy ones too.
It makes no sense to equate the landing and floating CAOs with the Paladin and PzH 2000.
And the Coalition will cover them completely.

[Jacket in stock]

Here is your example and shows that the commanders of the landing force are used not for their intended purpose, but as simple infantry. But they don't bother to reinforce them with appropriate weapons.
And so yes, why "nona", why "octopus", if the task is exactly for T90 and Msta.

[nobody75]

And if ATGMs were suitable? "Probable partners", with whom we have to fight, completely switch to the use of high-precision ammunition in their art. systems. And it's time for us ... Especially in the Airborne Forces, for which the problem with the supply of ammunition has always become acute. I am not against a cannon - a howitzer - a mortar, the whole point is how you see the use of the airborne forces ... If to ensure a high rate of attack with the use of weapons of mass destruction, then airborne self-propelled guns like the Octopus, Nona and Lotus are what the doctor ordered. And if you use the landing force as light infantry in local conflicts, then one of the tasks of their regular artillery will be counter-battery combat ... And how will Lotus conduct it with its range of 14 km, when the enemy fires from 20, or even from 30 km?
Sincerely

[ProkletyiPirat]

what the hell is airborne counter-battery firing? there is already little ammunition ...

[nobody75]

So I'm writing about the managed. The enemy will work like that ... What kind of counter-battery shooting? I understand ... I don't want to, but in the conditions of the massive use of UAVs in future conflicts, the paratroopers cannot fight without it ...
Sincerely

[garri-lin]

Light infantry and airborne forces are two big differences. Although you are right about something. There is a tendency to use the Airborne Forces as an infantry, but this is not good.

[Hermit21]

"Probable partners", with whom we have to fight, are completely switching to the use of high-precision ammunition in their art. systems

Who exactly?

[nobody75]

USA, since the second Gulf War
With respect

[Hermit21]

Does the US itself know about this? Otherwise, they, like us, solve 90-95% of fire missions with conventional shells

[nobody75]

I read the CAST article there the statistics were given - fire missions are solved with guided projectiles

[Hermit21]

If the task is from the category "A couple of times a day to shoot somewhere", then it is quite possible. But in normal combined arms combat, the attempt to compensate for the amount of accuracy is doomed to failure. We reduce costs, but in different ways

[nobody75]

The Airborne Forces should not participate independently in a normal combined arms battle without support.
Sincerely

[Hermit21]

And I'm not talking about the Airborne Forces, but about the armed forces in general

[nobody75]

Lotus for motorized riflemen unnecessarily, like anti-tank self-propelled guns
Sincerely

[Hermit21]

Dude, you're just a master of discussion.

"Probable partners", with whom we have to fight, are completely switching to the use of high-precision ammunition in their art. systems

Where is the Airborne Forces here?

[nobody75]

The Airborne Forces will land in the rear?
Sincerely

[EvilLion]

Do you even understand that high-precision ammunition needs to somehow highlight the target?

[garri-lin]

Now, if you can think of why the Airborne Forces guns with a caliber of 152 mm, I heartily plus postal.

[nobody75]

Now, if you can think of why the Airborne Forces guns with a caliber of 152 mm, I heartily plus postal.

Yes please! For the use of shells Krasnopol-M and Krasnopol-D. The first one has a semi-active laser guidance head and needs illumination, which is not good, on the other hand, the paratroopers have always been good scouts. The second is guided by satellite navigation. Similar projectiles with GPS were successfully used by the enemy during the war of three eights. When Khrulev was wounded, you will object to me that a 152 mm projectile weighs more and has larger dimensions, but the projectile consumption is less, since 1 target is 1 projectile. It is also possible to use the corrected projectile "Centimeter - M" in this caliber. It uses pulse control and the target illumination time is limited to 3 seconds, which reduces the risk to the spotter.
Sincerely

[garri-lin]

For 120 mm with LGSN there has been for a long time. The rest, if necessary, is also not a problem. There would be an order. But the recoil of 120 mm is much less and therefore the requirements for structural strength.

[nobody75]

And 152 mm also has a range! 18 - at the Centimeter. 20 - near Krasnopol. In addition, Krasnopol has satellite guidance, which is a gift of God for the paratroopers! Because it allows you to work in small groups and not carry equipment. The 152 mm caliber will really bring the airborne artillery to a new level!
Sincerely

[garri-lin]

The Airborne Forces have no carrier platform for this caliber. And the range is not needed. It is difficult to provide reconnaissance at a range equivalent to 152 mm guns. And unnecessary for the Airborne Forces. Just overkill.

[nobody75]

The Airborne Forces have no carrier platform for this caliber

For 120mm art. system no bmd-4m had to be extended.

It is difficult to provide reconnaissance at a range equivalent to 152 mm guns. And unnecessary for the Airborne Forces. Just overkill.

The experience of using airborne forces in local conflicts, in Afghanistan in particular, suggests the opposite. It was the airborne troops who had to adjust the artillery fire.
Sincerely

[garri-lin]

Added a skating rink. Enough for 120mm. For 152mm it is definitely not enough. Anything intelligible in 152 mm caliber less than Msta cannot be done. There will be continuous compromises. And in Afghanistan, the Airborne Forces did a lot of unusual things. They just had better preparation in fact. So they exploited it.

[nobody75]

Enough for 120mm.

The BMD already has a 100 mm low ballistics gun. If desired, you can develop a module with a minimum. Why ACS in 120mm caliber?

[garri-lin]

Well, as if Nona and Lotus is that same 120 mm mortar. With the possibility of direct fire with special projectiles. And a mortar and a howitzer and a cannon at the same time. Moreover, all these functions are performed at a fairly good level. Why more?

[nobody75]

You see ... The Bofors company carried out simulation modeling - simulated firing of its new 120mm mine with ready-made submunitions. In the course of a computational experiment, it was shown that the effectiveness of this mine against manpower is superior to the fragmentation and high-explosive effect of the standard 155 mm offshore force. You can easily stick a 4mm cannon into the BMD-30M module with a mortar. And all this without any platform modifications! Moreover. Modules for BMD are replaceable and, depending on the mission, you will have vehicles in battle formations with a 100mm gun and a 120mm mortar. And the Airborne Forces will come to the landing self-propelled guns in 152mm sooner rather than later. The Americans have already presented an automated control system that integrates infantry, tanks, UAVs and artillery into a single network. Thus, they intend to reduce Boyd's cycle time. They are constrained by their lack of appropriate AI.
Sincerely

[garri-lin]

The lack of AI is holding back so many projects. As well as the lack of compact and capacious energy sources. The 152 mm airborne self-propelled gun looks fantastic in weight, dimensions and ammunition for Nona or Lotus. If it does, it will consist of compromises. And the firing range equivalent to combined arms installations of this caliber will not have. GGE ammunition is also available in Russia. Their efficiency is higher. Nobody argues with this. But the question is, why did you remember them? Or is it basically impossible to create such a thing for Lotus?

[nobody75]

It's possible to create ... The whole question is in the niche that the 120 mm ACS will occupy, if a conventional mortar solves its tasks. And the paratroopers on the BMD have a 100 mm gun.
Sincerely

[garri-lin]

Lotus being the receiver of Nona is the mortar. Harder Sanya. But he also has many more opportunities.

[nobody75]

But he also has many more opportunities.

This very "division of labor" will lead to the well-known problem of interaction and turn the Airborne Forces into the French army of the early 40s. All French counterattacks were doomed to failure for two reasons:
1 complex and outdated division organization. Because of her, the French tried to "do everything right." Do not launch an attack before the arrival of artillery, do not sit on the defensive until the sappers have equipped positions, etc. I am afraid the same fate with all this "artillery zoo in airborne baggage" will lead to the same results ...
Sincerely

[nobody75]

2 The French lack of trained motorized infantry, with dowry artillery
Sincerely

[garri-lin]

What is the division of labor? Nona is a unique example of unification when one system is able to replace several. Simplicity and low cost made it possible to make it massive. Exactly what you need. The lotus is fully consistent with this concept. If the reform is brought to its logical conclusion, the Airborne Forces will be Gorse and Lotus as artillery. Octopus and Chrysanthemum as PT.

[nobody75]

Gorse and Lotus as artillery. Octopus and Chrysanthemum as PT

This is what I am writing about.
In France in 1940 there were 2 (two) rifles for different cartridges:
1 MAS 36 (freshly stolen German magazine) chambered for the normal 7,5x54 cartridge
2 Lebel's rifle chambered for the "unique" cartridge 8x50. It was a "unique example of unification" of the Gra - Kropachek scheme with a longitudinal under-barrel magazine.
How did it all end?
Sincerely

[garri-lin]

Your arguments are completely incomprehensible. I have listed completely different systems, not interchangeable with each other, but complementary. Gorse cannot replace Chrysanthemum and Octopus Lotus.

[nobody75]

Have you decided to generate all the permutations of the ACS and AT systems?
Well, who is better in terms of PTO Chrysanthemum or Octopus?
What will happen in the Octopus carousel? PTR? Bops? OFS?
Sincerely

[garri-lin]

Too few introductory notes. In one situation, Octopus is better. In another Chrysanthemum. Chrysanthemum is preferable against MBT. Against less armored vehicles Octopus. Combined ammunition. And Bops and OFs and rockets.

[EvilLion]

When they are pressed, they will correct, because the battle is going on right here, so any infantryman can do it, this has nothing to do with reconnaissance of targets and aiming artillery.

[nobody75]

any infantryman

, unfortunately cannot ...
Sincerely

[meandr51]

Now this is the work of the UAV. Which should be in the Airborne Forces.

[Boris Chernikov]

I will reveal a terrible secret - testing of military equipment in Russia is generally a very long process ..

[Hermit21]

They were tested only this year, not all at once. By the way, "Lotus" has quite a good pace of development from the project to the construction of samples for testing

[nobody75]

They were tested only this year, not all at once. By the way, "Lotus" has quite a good pace of development from the project to the construction of samples for testing

Of course, the pace is not bad - the results of the old research work on "Nona" were used, and they relied on a French mortar.
Sincerely

[Deniso]

Under the guise of a new ACS, the 2S31 Vienna is being developed from the 1980s to 2007, which by the way was not bad.

[Jacket in stock]

Probably bulletproof armor.
But I wonder if you can make quick-detachable active armor? They put it on a neighboring plane, if it does not fit into one by weight, they flew in, jumped off, collected on the ground and into battle. If you sail, they took it off, crossed it on a trailer on a raft, put it on the hull again and drove on? And if also KAZ ...

[vadimtt]

Not for sure, but for sure - the weight of the car is 18 tons, that says it all.
Active armor will not protect against bullets, and the base is too thin against projectiles with missiles. Well, the mass will increase - goodbye to mobility, for the Airborne Forces this is not at all an option.
You can, perhaps, put something like a Drozd / Arena from an ATGM. But the price tag will double with a dubious increase in combat effectiveness.

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: vadimtt

Well, the mass will increase - goodbye to mobility, for the Airborne Forces this is not at all an option.

So I'm writing, quick release.
If not active, then at least a Kevlar cape, maybe with titanium or ceramic inserts, a kind of "body armor" for a tank.
Again, how long have our Airborne Forces flew somewhere in battle with a parachute?
More and more on the ground, on a par with ordinary infantry, and there light weight is already unnecessary. But additional protection for their cardboard boxes will not be superfluous.
And if suddenly it comes to parachutes (which I strongly doubt), you can leave at home and take it on the next flight, if someone remains alive and waits.

[Bad_gr]

Quote: Jacket in stock

So I'm writing, quick release.

For BMD-4m, removable armor is available. They put it when there is no need to carry the parachute system. The weight of the attached armor is the same as that of the parachute system (1,5 t).

[Bad_gr]

Quote: Jacket in stock

But I wonder if you can make quick-detachable active armor?

There is also this:

[cat Rusich]

Quote: Jacket in stock

Again, how long have our Airborne Forces flew somewhere in battle with a parachute?
More and more on the ground, on a par with ordinary infantry, and there light weight is already unnecessary. But additional protection for their cardboard boxes will not be superfluous.
And if suddenly it comes to parachutes (which I strongly doubt),

Several T-72 tank battalions have already entered service with the Airborne Forces. For a long time, starting from Afghanistan, the Airborne Forces has been fighting on BMPs ... BMDs remain in the location of the unit (who can cite the documented fact of the numerous presence of BMDs in the war?)
Today there is a DZ in cloth bags, how good such a "bag DZ" is, I don't know - can such a "bag DZ" be used? - in case of her efficiency.

[cat Rusich]

"Bagged DZ

The tanks are already present ...

[neri73-r]

In the Airborne Forces, as I understand it, the main thing is speed and firepower. In the meantime, they will be looking for, hanging, filming and swimming will lose time.

[garri-lin]

Lotus Sau. Works from closed positions. The splinterproof armor is enough for her.

[ilya_oz]

Why not shoot a few ammo?

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: ilya_oz

Why not shoot a few ammo?

Apparently this is enough for this stage of testing.

consisting of 57 points ... this stage made it possible to evaluate the performance of all units, mechanisms and instruments of the weapon.

[Lord of the Sith]

Interesting car, good luck!

[Ros 56]

After all, Nona can work like a mortar, and judging by the photo, Lotus is unlikely.

[Alex777]

Caliber 120 mm subtly hints what it can.
Otherwise there would be only one Octopus.
And Octopus - ATGM can launch through its tank gun.

[garri-lin]

There is also controllable in 120 mm. With laser light. I don't remember the name. Perhaps the daredevil.

[Alex777]

And in the West?

[garri-lin]

Are you talking about an ATGM or a controlled one?

[Alex777]

About mines and shells 120 mm.
With a colleague nobody75 a discussion arose.
He says that there will be little captured ammunition and that they will be controlled.
And I believe that there are few, almost none, controllable in this caliber.

[garri-lin]

Now I understand. It's not even about what is now and what is not. In the event of a major war, the managed will quickly end. And the good old cast iron will go into business. Which you need a lot. Which the Lotus can do. Karabakh is an example of this.

[Alex777]

So I think so too ..

[cat Rusich]

Quote: garri-lin

There is also controllable in 120 mm. With laser light. I don't remember the name. Perhaps the daredevil.

For self-propelled guns Nona - 120mm Kitolov-2. KM-8 "Edge" -120mm.
1K113 "Brave" - ​​240mm for M-240 and for 2C4 "Tulip".

[garri-lin]

Thanks for the clarification. Flew out of my head.

[nobody75]

Kitolov - 2 120mm and is included in the Nona's ammunition load. But he has a range of up to 12 km ... Sadness
Sincerely

[Bad_gr]

Quote: Ros 56

After all, Nona can work like a mortar, and judging by the photo, Lotus is unlikely.

"... Angles of aiming the gun:
- horizontally - 360 degrees.
- vertically - from -4 to + 80 hail..... "

[Ros 56]

It is clear that the question disappeared in this information.

[Mountain shooter]

I read in the comments how such a weapon will fight, the range is small, the weight of the projectile is small ... Nona had a peculiarity - she could shoot 120 mm mortar mines ... And what about the Lotus? The landing force is fighting in the rear. Ammunition is in short supply ... He will hardly have to conduct oncoming tank battles ... But to move quickly and deliver sudden strikes to the rear is yes. Use the troops at the front as infantry? It’s when it’s really bad, and you have to plug the holes, and then there’s no time for fat ...

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

Use the troops at the front as infantry? This is when the trouble is completely

Do you have examples when it was used differently?

[Mountain shooter]

Quote: Jacket in stock

Do you have examples when it was used differently?

In the Czech Republic in '68, for example ... I don’t take the Second World War, although there were also powerful landings.

[nobody75]

In the Czech Republic in 68 - there was an exemplary seizure of the airfield, but there was no war ...
Sincerely

[Mountain shooter]

Quote: nobody75

In the Czech Republic in 68 - there was an exemplary seizure of the airfield, but there was no war

Well, in a different way! In general, landing is often used to avoid a big war.

[nobody75]

Excuse me, but after this application you were in Czechoslovakia (as it was then called)? If we would carefully study the organization of the "Prague Spring" by the Western special services, we could effectively resist the color revolutions. But who needs all this ?! Guardsmen - paratroopers and collective farmer Luka on the throne (it would be better if they took him to Rostov in the summer ... and the machine gun would be taken away from Kolenka)
By the way, our paratroopers in Czechoslovakia acted softly ... But the GDR men ...
Sincerely

[Mountain shooter]

Quote: nobody75

Excuse me, but after this application you were in Czechoslovakia (as it was then called)?

was in 98th. Pretty long. The equipment was started up. The Czechs spoke Russian decently and hated the EU, which then smashed the factories (the Tatra was then devoured by Caterpillar and closed) and NATO, which behaved NOW ...

[nobody75]

Here I am about the same ... Party members and Committee members missed the situation ... And the landing party - fix it.
If only the proper conclusions would be made! So no ...
Sincerely

[Alex777]

SAO Lotus:
Gun pointing angles: horizontal - 360 degrees, vertical - from -4 to +80 degrees.
Nona and Lotus have one developer.

range is small, projectile weight is small

A mortar cannon cannot have a long range.
As I wrote above, I came across information that it is possible to use captured ammunition. But I cannot confirm with confidence now.

He will hardly have to conduct oncoming tank battles.

100% will not be necessary. And this is not the task of the Airborne Forces.
But from an ambush to push and quickly hide - just right.

[nobody75]

He will hardly have to conduct oncoming tank battles.
100% will not be necessary. And this is not the task of the Airborne Forces.

Sorry, but there was such a Market Garden Operation. So tank battles cannot be ruled out. And how will the Octopus act in this case? If entrenched from an ambush, the landing party will lose pace, if an oncoming battle will be lost ...
Sincerely

[Alex777]

Sorry, but there was such a Market Garden Operation. So tank battles cannot be ruled out. And how will the Octopus act in this case? If entrenched from an ambush, the landing party will lose pace, if an oncoming battle will be lost ...

Since the landing (from aircraft) has a question like this: either the Octopus, or nothing, it is better if there is an Octopus. IMHO.
Sincerely.

[nobody75]

When it comes to anti-tank weapons, I think the Chrysanthemum would be better.
Sincerely

[Alex777]

So they have them.

[nobody75]

Then why "Octopus"? How do you personally see its combat use?
Sincerely

[Alex777]

I wrote a letter below.

[nobody75]

Thanks. I read it with pleasure. There is about Lotus, but about Octopus - nothing ...
As for the Lotus ... Ok, unexpectedly - paratroopers unexpectedly landed in the operational rear of the enemy. How long will the surprise effect last? In a modern war with an enemy equal in strength, the clock. After that, he will know both the composition of the forces and means of the landing, and the probable directions of the raids in the rear. How can Lotus help in such a situation?
Sincerely

[Alex777]

In any case, he can use trophy shells.
As for the discussion of the tasks of the landing party as intended, this is a too capacious topic for the forum.
As far as I understand the developers of Lotus - they believe that it is enough and that the Octopus is not needed.
Judging by the fact that only 20 Octopuses (not SDM) were purchased earlier, the issue has not yet been fully resolved.

[nobody75]

In any case, he can use trophy shells.

Will they be? If there are, they will be managed in small numbers ... How can he use them?
Sincerely

[Alex777]

Will they be? If they do, they will be managed in small numbers ...

Well, give an example of a controlled 120 mm min. Or 120 mm shells.
I know 155 mm.

[nobody75]

120-mm mortar corrected mine "Dokran" Israel
Sincerely

[Alex777]

We will not fight with Israel.
Cons are not mine.

[nobody75]

As the experience of the Last War of the Karabakh Franchise has shown, Jews sell their weapons to take away and drink.
Sincerely

[Alex777]

To whom, for example, did they sell these miracle mines?
Expensive, troublesome with logistics, it is necessary to train personnel.

[nobody75]

Mines with GPS correction, so you don't need to learn anything special. The Georgians have learned to work with shells.
To whom they sold - I don't know. But they were taken to the exhibition in Poland.
Sincerely

[Alex777]

Simply, without guidance, from an ordinary mortar will not fly?

[nobody75]

There is an undermining on the trajectory ...
Sincerely

[garri-lin]

Can you imagine what kind of detachment of forces the enemy will have to allocate for hunting airborne units?

[nobody75]

It depends on how much and to what depth you throw ... But in the presence of satellite reconnaissance UAVs, heavy artillery systems are not very large. I can count if there are adequate introductory ...
Sincerely

[garri-lin]

If those arsystems will not be the target for the airborne forces or control centers for unmanned vehicles.

[nobody75]

Excuse me, how do you imagine all this? Should they be located in the same building? Modern drones are launched from a catapult or from an airfield ... Would you like to spray the landing force?
Sincerely

[garri-lin]

We will plow the rear with a dashing cavalry charge. Headquarters, warehouses of ammunition and fuels and lubricants, enemy units on vacation, everything that comes to hand. Airborne forces are maneuver and speed. Butting head to head with regular parts is deadly for them.

[nobody75]

Exactly how to carry out a maneuver with fire from an ACS with a maximum firing range of 14 km? It's like a dashing cavalry charge with a saber on a tank ...
Sincerely

[garri-lin]

You yourself have talked about advanced LMS many times. They allow you to quickly attach to the terrain and quickly open fire. In modern realities, the maneuver by fire is directly related to the maneuver of the Artuston itself. For the counter-battery capabilities of the regular troops are extremely great. Airborne artillery mounts will have to shoot from short stops and move regularly so that they are not suppressed.

[nobody75]

Will he finish the shot? That is the question ... the Americans, even when fighting small arms, prefer to have an advantage in the effective range of fire. Remember how they used grenade launchers during the first Gulf War?
Sincerely

[nobody75]

Look, Lotus should be in the rear of the advancing BMD at a distance of no more than 7 km. Otherwise, targets for nesho can be successfully hit from the front edge of the standard 2A70. And why do we need such an SPG?
Sincerely

[nobody75]

If you want a 120 mm mortar, then it's easier to assemble it as a combat module for a bmd - 4
Sincerely

[garri-lin]

A logical approach. That's just milking this you need to be able to run fast. And for light and mobile airborne forces, this will definitely turn out better. And heavy equipment will only prevent this. A light SPG in 152mm caliber is impossible.

[nobody75]

The Americans did not bother with the SPG and made a 155mm towed gun for the Marines.
Sincerely

[garri-lin]

Well, find out that the KMP and the Airborne Forces are somewhat different in terms of education.

[nobody75]

Sorry, I'm writing from memory, but Chinook is carrying this amerovskoe weapon ...
Sincerely

[garri-lin]

And on the battlefield too? These types of troops have different purposes. They are radically different. The Overlord is an example.

[nobody75]

Will Lotus act in battle formations?
Sincerely

[garri-lin]

Lotus will be directly behind the battle formations. In the near rear. That's the difference. For the US Marines, even a Chinook harness with turkeys. And for the Airborne Forces, you need weapons corresponding to the doctrine.

[nobody75]

All Lotus Doctrine Today:
1 Nona's place
2 Under King Peas, this was not the case
3 Either Nona - or nothing ... Take while they give.
Before the development of Nona, R&D was carried out. And what was done about the Lotus?
Sincerely

[garri-lin]

Lotus is a logical continuation of Nona. And Nona suited the troops. Why change what's good. So they don't change. They bring the old weapon in line with modern requirements.

[nobody75]

At the time when Nona arranged for the Airborne Forces, BMDs were armed with an incomprehensible grenade launcher or a converted 30mm aircraft cannon. Before that there was a funny gun with wheels and a motor on a gun carriage. And here - what - no mortar cannon ... If you remember, the ground generals in the 90s demanded the Airborne Forces as a branch of the troops to be disbanded, split into dshb or reconnaissance companies. They say the tasks have changed, and their tanks are aluminum, and in general there will be no big nuclear war ...
Now in service with a creak, but arriving BMD - 4. There are two guns in the BM. One of them is 100mm 2a70. Her speed with various projectiles at the muzzle does not reach 2m. And the maximum firing range is 5,5 - 6,5 km. But ... motorized riflemen will sooner or later get the industry to develop for their BMP shells with bottom afterburning and actively - reactive. Then the firing range of 2a70 will increase to 8-10 km. And why would a Lotus with 14,5 be needed?
Further - the caliber ... I was given an example of 120mm "Kitolov", as an adjustable projectile for the Lotus. But they forgot to say that the further development of this bp - "Kitolov-M" - in caliber 122mm. What for. asks if you need an art. a system that can use 120mm mines but cannot fire standard caliber shells? Agree that a shell is always more expensive than a similar mine. And to install a mortar not on a bmd, no extra rollers or a huge tower are needed.
Sincerely

[garri-lin]

There is a cannon on the melon. Not a howitzer, not a mortar, but a cannon. Which is the default for direct fire. It is ineffective to hit from it at the maximum range. And no bottom gas generators will help. With Nona and Lotus, these are different types of weapons. Just like with the 122mm howitzer.

[nobody75]

That's it, that gun is low ballistics! There the speed at the cut (from memory) is 550 m / s! She is not really able to hit with direct fire ... It looks like they want to adapt the Octopus for this case ... As for the Lotus - and they would make an SPG in caliber 122 mm!
Sincerely

[garri-lin]

And nothing that Nona's shots on the target are better than 122mm? And the Lotus is the same. Plus the ability to use trophy mines. Plus more pluses. The only non-fundamental minus is the range is less than that of 122. But for the Airborne Forces, the range is sufficient.

[Lesorub]

CJSC "Lotos" is designed to replace self-propelled 120-mm self-propelled artillery and mortar units 2-9 Nona and its modifications that are in service with the Airborne Forces.

Yes, at one time the "Nona" had to be replaced by the 2C31 "Vienna", now the second attempt "Vienna" was slightly altered and given a different chassis and gun - they got the "Lotus".

[Bad_gr]

Quote: Lesorub

Yes, at one time the "Nona" had to be replaced by the 2C31 "Vienna", now the second attempt "Vienna" was slightly altered and given a different chassis and gun - they got the "Lotus".

There was information that the 2S31 "Vienna" did not go to the troops because of the high cost. Now, while reducing the costs of the Army, they can expose the same reason to "Lotus".

[Evil 55]

"NONA" is a thing .... is it advisable to change to a car with unknown prospects and the same caliber ..

[czes]

Was the muzzle brake designed by the PTU?

[Bad_gr]

Quote: czes

Was the muzzle brake designed by the PTU?

What other options are there to extinguish muzzle energy?
If the octopus has solved this problem by a long rollback, then, perhaps, this option is not acceptable for the Lotus. There remains only the muzzle brake, which are of the active and reactive type. The most effective is reactive - and it is worth it.

[Al_lexx]

I am amazed at the number of broken copies in the comments.)))
Let's remember the first ACS for the Airborne Forces ..

What is better for them now? It's better!
But .. it's understandable, Yaroslavna's howl is not yet a criminal offense. Otherwise, all these snotty people would be washed away from here in an instant.
In short ... We continue to whine in good faith about what a bad SPG.
And I will raise a full-weight glass to our winged infantry!
Potential partners don't even have anything close to it. And I suspect that the airmobile, along with the marines, is the cutting edge of the 21st century, and most likely the next.
And yes, of course, the Marines would have to pull up technically, it begs. The UDC seems to have been laid. Let's look further.

[nobody75]

What is better for them now? It's better!
But .. it's understandable, Yaroslavna's howl is not yet a criminal offense. Otherwise, all these snotty people would be washed away from here in an instant.

Eck you after a glass - then you got lucky. Hooliganism and drunken swearing are criminally punishable ...
And about "better" compare the two muzzle brakes ... Did you notice anything strange? Then we will roll on the second ... Sau on the BMD-4M platform ... How many road wheels does it have? We need to raise the third ...
Now - then you see that "slightly better"?
Sincerely

[Alex777]

I will try to answer everyone at once.

"Lotos" is to replace the old Soviet self-propelled guns "Nona S" (2S9) in the airborne troops. Taking into account the fact that in order to carry out tasks in isolation from the main forces, the paratroopers need a crane of a universal type, which works equally well both for the enemy's manpower and for his armored equipment, the Lotus was equipped with a new universal weapon that combines the main qualities and the capabilities of a cannon, howitzer and mortar. It was emphasized that the main and fundamental difference between the "Lotus" and the artillery systems of the previous generation of the "Nona" family is equipping with an automated control system and fire adjustment using a satellite navigation system. It is assumed that the crew will be able to automatically receive and transmit information with data for firing at targets.

For unification with other equipment of the Airborne Forces, the BMD-4M, an already adopted airborne combat vehicle, was chosen as a chassis for the new weapon. True, due to the greater mass of weapons, the original BMD-4M chassis had to be lengthened by adding an additional pair of road wheels (the 2S42 has 7 road wheels per side, compared to the 6 on the BMD-4M).

The 120mm Lotus cannon combines the functions of a cannon, a howitzer, and a mortar. Accordingly, the paratroopers can take advantage of all these artillery systems. The gun is guided in azimuth at 360 degrees, shooting is possible with elevation angles from -4 degrees to +80 degrees. The transfer time from traveling to combat is 30 seconds. The estimated rate of fire reaches from 6 to 8 rounds per minute, with a maximum effective range of up to 13 km, while the Soviet SAO 2S9 "Nona" had a maximum range of fire of only 8,8 km. The versatile Lotus cannon can use a wide range of 120mm ammunition, including 120mm rounds and mines produced in other countries.

Content source: https://naukatehnika.com/rossijskii-lotos.html
naukatehnika.com

[Azimuth]

Quote: Lesorub

Quote: Borik

The "Nona" weapon will be weaker, so they decided to increase the power. And we got something between "Nona" and "Octopus"

"Lotos" - intended to replace "Nona" - as in its time "Vienna" - but CAO 2S31 were purchased by Azerbaijan and are serving there.

We also have 2С31, but only a few, turned out to be expensive. And an analogue of the 2S25 on the BMP-3 chassis for the ground forces was never created.
2S42 is a modernized, simplified and cheaper version of the 2S31, and of course the BMD-4M chassis. It may be suitable for a landing party, but for the ground forces it is weak.

[Sckepsis]

has completed acceptance tests and is preparing for the start of the preliminary test phase.

Not the other way around?

[Alexfly]

And now, someone thought that mortars were not needed in the Airborne Forces? The landing is short, why long-barreled self-propelled guns? Fight the tanks? For this, grenade launchers are needed, light, accurate and many ..