Military Review

"The interception completely captivated the pilot": in the USA, the reasons for the fall of the F-15C into the North Sea are named

169
"The interception completely captivated the pilot": in the USA, the reasons for the fall of the F-15C into the North Sea are named

The Pentagon presented a report, which tells about the results of the investigation into the causes of the fall of the F-15C fighter of the US Air Force. The incident took place on June 15 this year. The plane, which took off from the airfield of Lakenheath airbase (Britain) to perform a planned flight, fell into the North Sea. For a long time, the USA could not answer what exactly the fall of the fighter was connected with.


Now the reasons are reported by a special commission of the US military department. The presented report says that the commission came to the conclusion about the error committed by the pilot.

In the cockpit of the F-15 was then 27-year-old US Air Force Senior Lieutenant Kenneth Allen. According to the commission, the pilot's attention was completely focused on intercepting a simulated enemy aircraft.

From the report:

The interception completely captivated the pilot, and at a critical moment he was unable to visually determine his position, also faced with bad weather conditions. Due to significant cloud cover over the North Sea, Officer Allen was unable to determine where the horizon was and did not feel that the plane was starting to descend sharply.

It became known that the plane was flying at an altitude of about 6,2 km. At this moment, the pilot received an order to make a U-turn and detect the side of a conditional enemy that needs to be intercepted. The plane was flying at a lower altitude.

Kenneth Allen began to descend to approximately 3,6 km and fired an air-to-air simulator. But at that moment he was told that the target was not hit. Then Allen decided to go for a rapprochement with a simulated enemy plane. At the same time, instead of approaching at the same altitude, the F-15 sharply went down and collided with water at a speed of more than 1000 km / h.

United States Air Force General Jeffrey Harrigan:

This unfortunate accident is another reminder of the attendant risks that pilots face on a daily basis to ensure the success of our Air Force. Lieutenant Allen was an outstanding officer who made a huge contribution to the common cause of our large team. No amount of words can compensate for this loss.

It is noteworthy that Senior Lieutenant Kenneth Allen graduated from the F-15C piloting training course only in January and in May he received the qualification of a slave on these fighters. It turns out that from that moment to his death, about a month passed.
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  1. Generator Systems
    Generator Systems 24 November 2020 19: 10
    +4
    Bullshit happens request
    1. figwam
      figwam 24 November 2020 19: 15
      +5
      It's bullshit, not a report.
      1. ccsr
        ccsr 24 November 2020 19: 29
        +8
        Quote: figvam
        It's bullshit, not a report.

        So this report was prepared for the media, purely for show. This investigation probably contained several volumes, and even the conclusions there could be completely different, only this will never be told in a press release. I think that the results of the investigation are classified, and it is unlikely that in the next thirty years something of them will appear.
        1. marchcat
          marchcat 24 November 2020 19: 43
          +3
          So this media report was prepared
          Rather, for insurers ...
        2. Pete mitchell
          Pete mitchell 24 November 2020 20: 50
          +7
          It is rather weak even for a tick in the media: the Americans have already painted everything very plausibly - there is nothing special to hide.
          Relatives are in trouble, taxpayers are sad ...
          1. tikhonov66
            tikhonov66 25 November 2020 12: 02
            +2
            The pilot was looking too closely at the instruments ...
            8-)
            - and only a couple of pilots in the USA are taught ?!
          2. ccsr
            ccsr 25 November 2020 12: 55
            +1
            Quote: Pete Mitchell
            It is rather weak even for a tick in the media: the Americans have already painted everything very plausibly - there is nothing special to hide.

            Tell this to more naive people - you might be believed. And if it was the fault of the aircraft designers (I hope you remember about the scandal with the civilian Boeing) and the pilot had nothing to do with it? Who, then, will be responsible for adopting the aircraft? Do you think the American military is all so stupid not to understand what everything could turn out to be if this accident is associated with the same corruption, when not some test results cover their eyes.
            1. Pete mitchell
              Pete mitchell 25 November 2020 13: 14
              +3
              You just do not trust amers a priori? And if everything is really simple? Young, blundered, gave the opportunity to repeat and got carried away .. This is not an isolated case, and you, as a servant, understand this very well.
              If you're talking about the MAX story, then Boeing screwed up, of course, but there's no reason to blame everything on him.
              1. ccsr
                ccsr 25 November 2020 13: 51
                +2
                Quote: Pete Mitchell
                You just do not trust amers a priori?

                Yes, in 90% of cases they lie in a similar situation, and they do not consider it shameful if they think it is more profitable for them to lie. Remind you of the conclusions of the Warren Commission, or will you believe it? There was still a higher level ...
                Quote: Pete Mitchell
                Young, blundered, given the opportunity to repeat and carried away ..

                And I admit this, as well as the fact that maybe he did not blunder at all, but simply in a critical situation the plane turned out to be uncontrollable.
                Quote: Pete Mitchell
                If you're talking about the MAX story, then Boeing screwed up, of course, but there's no reason to blame everything on him.

                What about the F-117, which went to junk, to put it mildly, without proving that it was invisible? It's just that it's unacceptable to talk about it - why would it?
                1. Pete mitchell
                  Pete mitchell 25 November 2020 15: 49
                  +2
                  Quote: ccsr
                  the conclusions of the Warren Commission remind you

                  Excuse me, but where are the ordinary pilots and Warren Commission, well it cannot be compared. In this case, everything is simple, and of course you are right: where there is real politic, the devil will break his leg there.
                  Quote: ccsr
                  what about the F-117, which went to junk, to put it mildly, without proving that it is invisible

                  The creation of the legendary Kelly Johnson had everything ... everything has its time, and this device turned out to be very short. I would venture to suggest that he fulfilled his task in aircraft construction; in military aviation he did not shine, but in principle he coped, although all this could be achieved at lower costs ...
                  And the boy with the F-15: sharp maneuvering in the English cloud ... happens
                  1. ccsr
                    ccsr 25 November 2020 20: 35
                    +1
                    Quote: Pete Mitchell
                    Excuse me, but where are the rank and file pilots and the Warren Commission, well, this cannot be compared.

                    It is at the level of instinct that they have been driven into their brains since childhood - you can and should lie if it is for your good.
                    Quote: Pete Mitchell
                    ... everything has its time, and for this device it turned out to be very short.

                    And how they lied, describing his merits, which later could not be confirmed.
                    And you also ask why I do not trust them.
                    1. Pete mitchell
                      Pete mitchell 25 November 2020 20: 43
                      +2
                      Quote: ccsr
                      how they lied, describing his merits, which later could not be confirmed. And you also ask why I do not trust them.

                      No democratic you are a person, but how highly likely: this is the most powerful evidence laughing
                      There is a theory that stealth technology was slipped away: I just don't always understand - Ufimtsev's work was slipped to them, or they slipped stealth to us. One thing is clear: if the wavelength is commensurate with the geometric dimensions of the object, the capabilities of the technology drop sharply. In confirmation of this, the proceedings in Congress, after the B-2 was found at a distance of half a thousand kilometers from Britain. You probably know more.
                      1. ccsr
                        ccsr 25 November 2020 21: 13
                        0
                        Quote: Pete Mitchell
                        after the B-2 was found at a distance of half a thousand kilometers from Britain.

                        In fact, these aircraft were discovered immediately after takeoff in the United States, with the exception of rare single flights. Let them tell about their trial themselves.
                      2. Pete mitchell
                        Pete mitchell 25 November 2020 21: 34
                        +2
                        You are already talking about another level, I will refrain from discussing this. When he first moved to Britain, the Britons found him more than half a thousand kilometers away with an ordinary stationary air defense radar and voiced this fact. Congress in sadness: why was the plane seen for half a day? Oh there are lenses, oh there is an unfavorable combination of precipitation and air masses... The reason for all this was that it was discovered by a very ancient meter-long radar, which at that time remained with the conservative Brits and ... RF. They blurted out their own.
                        PS I didn’t find a word about this event on the internet, but before it was ...
                      3. ccsr
                        ccsr 26 November 2020 10: 18
                        +2
                        Quote: Pete Mitchell
                        the brits found it more than half a thousand km with an ordinary stationary air defense radar

                        In fact, radio intelligence detects such aircraft long before they appear on the screens of OUR radars, and not only by the operation of onboard electronic equipment, but also by the reflected signal of enemy radars, including civilian radars. So half a thousand kilometers is much less than even the near zone of radio intelligence.
                      4. Pete mitchell
                        Pete mitchell 26 November 2020 10: 55
                        +2
                        Well, we are still talking about different things: I'm still talking about a narrower - purely radar detection; you're talking about the capabilities of radio intelligence. When they boast of the achievements of stealth technology, they "forget" about the capabilities of radio intelligence. And if it is possible: is it possible to bring all this information to one screen and display the big picture?
                        Quote: ccsr
                        and by the reflected signal of enemy radars, including civilian radars ..
                        Are you talking about the ability to process the “alien” signal of the secondary location? Or about the ability to process signals coming from TCAS? A couple of years ago, some guy brought the amers to hysteria: he literally wrote a plug-in for programs like flightradar24 on his knees and they began to display stealths flying without transponders, according to signals from TCASs of other aircraft. The transponder can be turned off, but the TCASs, the separation of aircraft in the air, continued to work and foreign aircraft themselves leaked information to the network
                      5. ccsr
                        ccsr 26 November 2020 16: 44
                        +1
                        Quote: Pete Mitchell
                        Well, we are still talking about different things: I'm still talking about a narrower - purely radar detection; you are talking about the capabilities of radio intelligence.

                        And who told you that in the radio-technical units of the air defense forces there were no radio-technical reconnaissance stations, the same as those used in the osnaz units?
                        Quote: Pete Mitchell
                        then they "forget" about the capabilities of the means of radio intelligence.

                        This assumption is not supported by anything. Do not think that they are more stupid than us - on the contrary, we must always think that they will be smarter and more cunning than us.
                        Quote: Pete Mitchell
                        A couple of years ago, some guy brought the amers to hysteria: he literally wrote a plug-in for programs like flightradar24 on his knees

                        Forty years ago they knew how to do it in osnaz units, and without any "boys".
                        Quote: Pete Mitchell
                        and unauthorized planes themselves leaked information to the network

                        This is just one way of detecting planes, there are others.
                      6. Pete mitchell
                        Pete mitchell 26 November 2020 17: 35
                        +2
                        Quote: ccsr
                        Who told you ..

                        Nobody said this is not my specialty. Due to the circumstances, I was faced with the construction of an airspace control system ..., then you will not be interested. They are probably not stupid, but the radars that they sniff to their allies are sniffed exactly like a radar. This means that there is a minimum of parity of opportunities on the western borders.
                        Quote: ccsr
                        Forty years ago they knew how to do it in osnaz units, and without any "boys".

                        Probably they knew how, I think the costs were of a different order, if only because 40 years ago TCAS was not yet used lol
    2. uralant
      uralant 26 November 2020 11: 02
      +1
      Quote: Pete Mitchell
      Young, blundered, gave the opportunity to repeat and got carried away .. This is not an isolated case, and you, as a servant, understand this very well.

      Who's young! Who is an outstanding pilot of all times and peoples young? Yes, if their kids are outstanding, then I don't know, they have young ones!
      1. Pete mitchell
        Pete mitchell 26 November 2020 11: 18
        +2
        The banter is valid good
  2. COJIDAT
    COJIDAT 25 November 2020 22: 19
    +1
    They blamed the poorly prepared plane on the poor guy - the pilot won't say anything anyway ..
  • Orel
    Orel 24 November 2020 19: 49
    +7
    Quote: Systems Generator
    Bullshit happens


    Not a rare and dangerous situation for pilots. Such disasters have already happened. With a prolonged turn, disorganization of the human vestibular apparatus is possible, this is especially intensified in poor visibility, when the pilot is guided only "by instruments" or by his own feelings about his spatial position.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 25 November 2020 12: 09
      +3
      Quote: Orel
      With a prolonged turn, disorganization of the human vestibular apparatus is possible, this is especially intensified in poor visibility, when the pilot is guided only "by instruments" or by his own feelings about his spatial position.

      Uh-huh ... in the Soviet "ZVO" even a whole article was with examples of standard cases of "deception" of the pilot's vestibular apparatus when changing the speed or direction of the aircraft.

      Figure: 1. The emergence of an illusion in the pilot under the influence of the force of acceleration: 1 - the initial position of the aircraft; 2 - the position of the aircraft perceived by the pilot as a result of the resulting illusion; 3 - the pilot, under the influence of an illusion, tries to correct the position of the aircraft

      http://commi.narod.ru/txt/1990/0210.htm
      1. Pete mitchell
        Pete mitchell 25 November 2020 16: 47
        +4
        We were taught all this in school, even the uneven tension of the harness belts gives the illusion of a roll. Therefore, the belts are first completely loosened, and then tightened - we were forced to do just that, and I still do so. Well, and, accordingly, the instrument flight, I don't remember in the KBP, but in the KULP it seems like exercise 12 - at least wring out the gloves, like yourself recourse
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Pete mitchell
      Pete mitchell 25 November 2020 16: 53
      +2
      Quote: Orel
      in poor visibility, when the pilot is guided only "by instruments" or by his own feelings about his spatial position.

      If you will allow me, then with poor visibility - only by instruments, ignoring your own feelings - which is actually the whole difficulty. Accordingly, the manner of management changes.
      1. Orel
        Orel 25 November 2020 20: 27
        +1
        Quote: Pete Mitchell
        If you will allow me, then with poor visibility - only by instruments, ignoring your own feelings - which is actually the whole difficulty. Accordingly, the manner of management changes.


        Perhaps the moment of poor visibility, the formation of an illusion, and the point of no return coincided together and thus took a short period of time, several tens of seconds perhaps. It can be assumed that the pilot did not look at the instruments at that time, as he was confident in his position in space and in his actions, i.e. he didn’t even try to "fly the instruments", but was sure that he was in control, but he was wrong
        1. Pete mitchell
          Pete mitchell 26 November 2020 01: 37
          +3
          Quote: Orel
          those. he didn’t even try to "fly by instrument", but was sure that he was in control, but he was wrong

          They have already posted a detailed alignment of the situation, there is already a link below. Wrong guy
  • Poetry
    Poetry 25 November 2020 00: 00
    0
    "They killed Kenny! "
  • Nikolay Ivanov_5
    Nikolay Ivanov_5 24 November 2020 19: 12
    -5
    The complete sloppiness of the US Air Force. fool
    1. Pamir
      Pamir 24 November 2020 21: 02
      +8
      Nikolay, we have sloppiness no less sometimes, it is enough to recall the death of two SU-34 crews over the Sea of ​​Okhotsk.
    2. Observer2014
      Observer2014 24 November 2020 21: 34
      -1
      Quote: Nikolai Ivanov_5
      The complete sloppiness of the US Air Force. fool

      Also think of saying that the US Air Force will soon self-destruct itself wassat laughing
  • Eldorado
    Eldorado 24 November 2020 19: 14
    -2
    It's just that this fighter was older than the pilot himself.
    1. Incvizitor
      Incvizitor 24 November 2020 20: 51
      -3
      There are no new normal ones, and what is left is tormenting ...
      1. Observer2014
        Observer2014 24 November 2020 21: 45
        -1
        El Dorado (Artyom)
        It's just that this fighter was older than the pilot himself.

        Incvizitor (Andrey)
        There are no new normal ones, and what is left is tormenting ...

        Do you two have the most modern Air Force? And the most powerful in the World? Can I ask you what World you live in?
        1. Incvizitor
          Incvizitor 24 November 2020 23: 45
          -2
          SU 30 SU 35 quite modern T 50 will bring and will be a full-fledged 5th and not a series of defects released there since the 80s.
        2. Eldorado
          Eldorado 25 November 2020 10: 07
          -1
          I am not saying that we have the most modern aviation in the world, but the fact that the crashed American fighter was produced in the 1980s and was older than the pilot is a fact.
  • The Siberian barber
    The Siberian barber 24 November 2020 19: 14
    0
    Sorry for the boy
    Probably questions for preparation ..
    1. Nikolay Ivanov_5
      Nikolay Ivanov_5 24 November 2020 19: 19
      +2
      Questions to the command of the unit, as a pilot with such a small flying time was allowed to control the fighter alone. hi
      1. Doliva63
        Doliva63 25 November 2020 12: 08
        0
        Quote: Nikolai Ivanov_5
        Questions to the command of the unit, as a pilot with such a small flying time was allowed to control the fighter alone. hi

        And how could he fly a one-seat fighter not alone, I wonder? wassat
        1. Nikolay Ivanov_5
          Nikolay Ivanov_5 25 November 2020 20: 14
          0
          The fact of the matter is that it was too early to plant him for such a fighter.
  • starpur
    starpur 24 November 2020 19: 16
    +11
    Two questions for knowledgeable people: Is there an alarm on the F-15 of a dangerous approach to the ground and is there a button "bringing to the horizon"?
    1. kit88
      kit88 24 November 2020 20: 10
      +14
      The McDonnell Douglas F-15 Eagle does not have an Auto-GCAS traverse.
      Available on F-35, F-16, F / A-18, F-35, cut down on F-22. There is no information about the F-15. So she's not there.
    2. EvilLion
      EvilLion 25 November 2020 08: 16
      -1
      On the F-16 there is definitely a "panic" button, although I do not know if its presence is related to the presence of an EDSU aircraft (the F-16 was just advanced in this regard). On the F-15, EDSU, it seems, was not originally, but here is already version C. The radio altimeter, in theory, should be, unless, of course, not to the side or even looking at the sky.
  • Nyrobsky
    Nyrobsky 24 November 2020 19: 17
    +5
    It will not be enough. It would be normal if the USA itself collapsed from the excessive enthusiasm for "interceptions" of conditional opponents around the world. The whole world has already been pulled up. negative
    1. Tank hard
      Tank hard 24 November 2020 19: 24
      0
      Quote: Nyrobsky
      It will not be enough. It would be normal if the USA itself collapsed from the excessive enthusiasm for "interceptions" of conditional opponents around the world. The whole world has already been pulled up

      I fully support you! drinks
      1. Pete mitchell
        Pete mitchell 24 November 2020 19: 35
        +20
        Excitement happens. So the teacher dumped my slave ...
        The Americans themselves write that fixing on the interception plus cloudiness - loss of spatial orientationwhich seems to be true. When he fell down to 300 m, he apparently saw the horizon and pulled 8,2g, but it was too late.
        It happens that condolences to relatives ...
    2. Revolver
      Revolver 24 November 2020 21: 53
      +2
      Quote: Nyrobsky
      the US itself collapsed

      Generations of Russians are born, live, and die in the expectation that the dollar and America are about to collapse.
      1. Nyrobsky
        Nyrobsky 24 November 2020 22: 15
        +1
        Quote: Nagan
        Quote: Nyrobsky
        the US itself collapsed

        Generations of Russians are born, live, and die in the expectation that the dollar and America are about to collapse.

        Do not confuse white with square. This is not an expectation, but a wish.
      2. Observer2014
        Observer2014 24 November 2020 22: 17
        -1
        Quote: Nagan
        Quote: Nyrobsky
        the US itself collapsed

        Generations of Russians are born, live, and die in the expectation that the dollar and America are about to collapse.

        laughing yes And the Yellowstone volcano will explode. wassat Until then. They all use the American achievements of the national economy, from which the operating system is used to print angry comments, jeans and heaps of everything else yes drinks laughing And where to rest and where the elites hang out and live in general, complete rzhaka. lol In short, when will you blow up this volcano there? For the prospect of living up to retirement in Russia is worse than your mega explosion. At least we will not be so offended.
  • Military77
    Military77 24 November 2020 19: 23
    +9
    Piloting error? And where was all the much-vaunted super-duper electronics that didn't warn the pilot of the dangerous low-altitude maneuver? Nonsense.
  • Boa kaa
    Boa kaa 24 November 2020 19: 23
    +11
    I am not a pilot, but it seems that amas write bullshit.
    3,6 km is a decent altitude, pilots are able to fly by instruments (airborne horizon, altimeter, speed indicator). T.N. "blind instrument flights" are probably being practiced. At least to me, a kid, my father told all this in paints. Surely something happened to the car, and the starley was trying to get away from the collision with water. It's a pity for the pilot, but of course it's easier for the commission to blame everything on someone who can't object to anything. The usual practice of warriors.
    IMHO.
    1. sharp-lad
      sharp-lad 25 November 2020 00: 35
      0
      A modern combat information system is capable of overloading even an experienced pilot, and then there's also a green one. So I didn't keep track of the devices, and I didn't immediately pay attention to the voice warning.
  • deniso
    deniso 24 November 2020 19: 43
    -8
    Probably forgot to refuel.
  • Lord of the Sith
    Lord of the Sith 24 November 2020 19: 47
    -8
    Carried away and intercepted the sea. Zheltorotik imagines himself an airship, that's what happens.
  • agoran
    agoran 24 November 2020 19: 48
    +6
    Hmm, bullshit, not a report.
    On the F-15, something like IKV and no altimeter?
    27 years old, clearly not a boy, senior lieutenant, so there was experience on other types.
    At 3,6 km I launched a rocket, which means there was a "capture" of the target at this altitude, there was no point in going down.
    Most likely a failure of technology or a human factor.
    1. Alexander Seklitsky
      Alexander Seklitsky 25 November 2020 06: 04
      +1
      Quote: agoran
      On the F-15, something like IKV and no altimeter?
      On An 148, which was buried in the ground near Moscow, there was also a working altimeter, however
      Quote: agoran
      27 years old, clearly not a boy, senior lieutenant, so there was experience on other types.

      The An 148 KVS also had a lot of experience, but neither he nor the co-pilot turned on the heating of the reservoir, did not pay attention to the artificial horizon and altimeter, did not even pay attention to the voice informant who squealed that the ground was close. And here the experience is less than a month and speed over a thousand kilometers per hour. Everything is logical
  • Well done
    Well done 24 November 2020 19: 54
    -12%
    Art. l-t thought it was a computer toy? I got carried away ... And that's it ...
    1. Pamir
      Pamir 24 November 2020 23: 08
      +1
      Not not not, I'm not minus.
      From the report:
      The interception completely captivated the pilot, and at a critical moment he was unable to visually determine his position, also faced with bad weather conditions. Due to significant cloud cover over the North Sea, Officer Allen was unable to determine where the horizon was and did not feel that the plane was starting to descend sharply.
      The key "did not feel that the plane was starting to go down sharply."
      Why didn't he? He shouldn't have felt, still 27 years old. Maybe what happened to the pilot, a blood clot came off, an attack? Even the pilots are not immune from this. And he’s not yellow, making a mistake at 27 years old, in the US Air Force flying hours already serious at this age in US pilots.
  • wow
    wow 24 November 2020 20: 25
    +3
    Generally, orienteering over the sea is very difficult, there is nothing to "catch" the eye. It is very difficult to determine visually the height, there are no landmarks, solid ripples.
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 24 November 2020 20: 51
      +7
      With the eye?
      And if the flight is night? The pilot must navigate only by instruments.
      No eyes and no personal sensations.
      (The Israeli Air Force generally carries out all combat operations at night. And on the F-35
      in a virtual helmet there is not even a theoretical possibility to look at
      something around the eyes. Only cartoon and devices.)
      The American, carried away, forgot to look at the instruments.
      1. Liam
        Liam 24 November 2020 21: 29
        +2
        Quote: voyaka uh
        forgot to look at the instruments.

        In such cases, the main problem is that the pilot refuses to believe the instruments if they show something different from his "feelings." in 2004.
        Or the Typhoon in Italy.
        1. dmmyak40
          dmmyak40 24 November 2020 22: 00
          +3
          Can you explain about the Boeing FlyDubai over Rostov? Was there a mistake due to the conflict between "senses" - "devices"?
          1. Pete mitchell
            Pete mitchell 24 November 2020 22: 30
            +2
            Quote: dmmyak40
            Can you explain about Boeing FlyDubai ...

            hi now, the wiki will examine and report. I'm also interested in FlyDubai - a mistake in the piloting technique, it's not the same as spatial disorientation. And about Typhoon please don't - have you ever played aerobatics? So don't go on
            1. Liam
              Liam 24 November 2020 22: 44
              -5
              Oooh..saytovsky downed pilot is right there). Go better read the materiel and do not arrange another clownery of "experienced ace")
              1. Pete mitchell
                Pete mitchell 24 November 2020 22: 49
                +5
                As always, you confused: Typhoon crashed due to an error in piloting technique, this is obvious, and the companions of the deceased shared.
                Did you spin aerobatics yourself? Did you manage hand-to-hand combat with limited visibility? Learn the theory, read the wiki
                1. Liam
                  Liam 24 November 2020 22: 52
                  -5
                  You have no idea what you are writing about.
                  Typhoon is a clear example of how a catastrophe can happen in spite of all the instruments. And then comrades in the comments wonder how it was - the F-15 pilot crashed into the sea despite the warnings of the automation. The Typhoon pilot also crashed although everything in the cockpit was blinking and shouting
                  1. Pete mitchell
                    Pete mitchell 24 November 2020 23: 07
                    +5
                    Amused, but not funny. I understand that the wiki is not written, and you clearly have a bad idea of ​​how aerobatics is performed, especially at low altitudes. This is how Typhoon died. How the F-15 crashed from LN is well described by usaf specialists - loss of spatial orientation, aka spatial disorientention. At the desk ...
                  2. ancient
                    ancient 25 November 2020 11: 22
                    +2
                    Quote: Liam
                    You have no idea what you are writing about.

                    "Dear" ... would you cover your mitten, but forgive me my .. "French" ... who are you trying to raise your 2tail on? belay ..on the Vagabond ... who, 31 years ago, mastered the whole complex of aerobatics and was released as a combat pilot on the MiG-23 ML.
                    Quote: Liam
                    The Typhoon pilot also crashed, although everything in the cockpit was blinking and screaming

                    This is in your empty head .. "everything is blinking" and yelling, but on aerobatics, the acre of "boozing" "Rita, about the maximum angle of attack and maximum overload, everything is fine ....." the engine "works, the aerobatics" spin " wassat
                    1. Liam
                      Liam 25 November 2020 12: 31
                      -5
                      Quote: ancient
                      mitten

                      The only aerobatics that both you and your unlucky companion in raping the keyboard have mastered is in rudeness and idle talk. Apart from ignorant rudeness and meaningful foggy tales about flights of downed pilots on antediluvian corn plants 40 years ago, nothing good comes from you
                      1. ancient
                        ancient 25 November 2020 13: 09
                        +1
                        Quote: Liam
                        You and your unlucky companion in raping the keyboard are in rudeness and idle talk. In addition to ignorant rudeness and meaningful foggy tales about the flights of downed pilots on the antediluvian corn plants 40 years ago

                        And from your comment just .... "rushing" the height of politeness and the intelligentsia wassat
                        Quote: Liam
                        on keyboard rape

                        Immediately felt ...... "a burnt-out Internet fighter" ..... wassat
                        Quote: Liam
                        foggy tales about the flights of downed pilots on the antediluvian corn plants 40 years ago, nothing good comes from you

                        Born to crawl ... don't get in the cab wassat
                      2. Liam
                        Liam 25 November 2020 13: 35
                        -6
                        Quote: ancient
                        your comment

                        What is hello? This is the answer. You do not even have a collective farm upbringing. Although an old man should have learned at least the rudiments of behavior.
                        As for your and unlucky colleague of "professionalism", you are the site analogs of "aviaexpert" Talboyev on TV. Who a hundred years ago flew on something and comes out to comment on air crashes, while carrying such nonsense that real pilots grab their heads and call his statements by the term "talboeboys"
                      3. Pete mitchell
                        Pete mitchell 25 November 2020 16: 32
                        +4
                        And you answer that somewhere we referred to Talboyev? And for a minute - he, by the way, is TALBOYEV: name, experience, although I agree that it is better for him not to comment on some things. And who are you to talk about the loss of spatial orientation? Do you have any experience? Are you a doctor? Tell me more about the missed approach, or you real pilots advise. Can you imagine what will happen if you press TOGA once? So on top of it, no wiki. And twice?
                        And by the way
                        Quote: Pete Mitchell
                        Quote: Pete Mitchell
                        Did you find about the Carcass? Or, as always, "will you merge"?
                        You either present or do as it should
                        Although what I'm talking about: seniors have to take their word for it, well, well ..
                    2. Pete mitchell
                      Pete mitchell 25 November 2020 16: 00
                      +5
                      Comrade Colonel, I'm still wildly sorry, but the character of your energy is not worth
                      Quote: ancient
                      Born to crawl ... don't get in the cab
                      Moreover, over the past day, he demonstrated to everyone that he does not follow the bazaar
                      Quote: Pete Mitchell
                      Quote: Pete Mitchell
                      Did you find the carcass? Or as always?
                      You either present or do as it should

                      He merged something, but we no longer expect responsible actions from the senior, an irresponsible character. Although you know, I even envy somewhere: there is time to draw "wisdom" from wiki, live journal and probably others; I seem to be working very lazily, but normally there is no time to sit down on the Internet, everything has to be interrupted by the primary sources
                    3. Cyril G ...
                      Cyril G ... 27 November 2020 21: 09
                      0
                      Quote: ancient
                      "hardened internet fighter" .....


                      That's for sure... laughing
      2. Liam
        Liam 24 November 2020 22: 31
        -5
        Quote: dmmyak40
        Can you explain about the Boeing FlyDubai over Rostov? Was there a mistake due to the conflict between "senses" - "devices"?

        Yes. The pilot "caught the illusion" and believed that the plane was gaining altitude, although in reality it was already diving
        1. Pete mitchell
          Pete mitchell 24 November 2020 22: 53
          +3
          Wow, you're so categorical recourse And how to catch an illusion on go around? Maybe you need to perform the maneuver correctly
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. Pete mitchell
              Pete mitchell 24 November 2020 23: 17
              +4
              You seem to have called yourself a bad word, don't worry so much. You just see that you have never done GO around and you don't know how the system works. There are features of the relationship between the ALT ACQ and SPD window modes, you need to closely monitor. LiveJournal to help you, I usually use primary sources. Read the originals
              1. Liam
                Liam 24 November 2020 23: 21
                -4
                Quote: Pete Mitchell
                I usually use primary sources

                Uh-huh .. it's like when a child's games on a computer flight simulator were shown to me from YouTube as "proof" of the Tu-154's ability to get out of a flat spin)
                Such iksperdov on the site are obese herds in any topic.
                1. Pete mitchell
                  Pete mitchell 24 November 2020 23: 42
                  +2
                  Oh, do mercy refresh my memory - when was this? And what about?
                  I talk to the pilots who knew the victim from the Typhoon - no one has any doubts about what happened. About the F-15, this is just like talking to usaf.
                  So what was there about the big carcass?
                  1. Pete mitchell
                    Pete mitchell 24 November 2020 23: 57
                    +3
                    Well, about the carcass found? Or as always?
                  2. Liam
                    Liam 25 November 2020 00: 05
                    -6
                    Quote: Pete Mitchell
                    I communicate with pilots who knew the victim from Typhoon

                    And you don't communicate with Perez de Cuellar?
                  3. Pete mitchell
                    Pete mitchell 25 November 2020 00: 06
                    +3
                    Did you find the carcass?
                  4. Pete mitchell
                    Pete mitchell 25 November 2020 00: 39
                    +3
                    Quote: Pete Mitchell
                    Well, about the carcass found? Or as always?
                  5. Pete mitchell
                    Pete mitchell 25 November 2020 01: 07
                    +5
                    Quote: Pete Mitchell
                    Did you find the carcass?
                    Don't sin, I'm just uncomfortable in front of a colleague dmmyak40 for example, as in front of other specialists: who perfectly understand that I certainly saw a large Carcass even close, but I cannot talk about a flat corkscrew on it, from the word quite.
                    You either present or do as it should
              2. dmmyak40
                dmmyak40 25 November 2020 18: 26
                +5
                Liam, you are wrong in your categorical and harsh statements about REAL PILOTS. When I calmly expressed doubt in your judgments about the Boeing's death in Rostov, why did you not answer me by quoting the results of the IAC investigation? The same one that I looked over yesterday on purpose to make sure I was not mistaken.
                For some reason, instead of a reasoned objection with authoritative sources (for me, the MAC is such), you start a boring squabble about simulators, Carcass and other rubbish.
                Although I am not familiar with Pete mitchell personally, from communication with him I can draw unambiguous conclusions: the pilot. Who you are - I don't know. If you are a pilot or a pilot, show it to all of us. If we are a groundman, we will respectfully listen and thank you.
                But just do not burn your kerosene in vain - like a board, the commander of which on the executive asks for another 5 minutes to warm up the engines, and he feverishly reads the cards and turns on everything that he forgot to turn on.
              3. Liam
                Liam 25 November 2020 18: 48
                -7
                On your polite post, I politely replied. A link to where the infa was in the post that the mod deleted. If you look above, you will see that there is a record about the deleted post. I'll throw it off again. Even two.
                https://denokan.livejournal.com/145077.html

                https://denokan.livejournal.com/tag/%D1%80%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%B2

                As for the rest, I am used to answering the hammam as they deserve. They practically do not write anything on the matter, and the talco bikes click nothing.
              4. Pete mitchell
                Pete mitchell 25 November 2020 20: 20
                +4
                Quote: Liam
                I'm used to answering the way they deserve
                You will learn to answer for your words, while you only make the Admins nervous, entertain the rest, it does not work out very well recourse
                Quote: Pete Mitchell
                Quote: Pete Mitchell
                Well, about the carcass found? Or as always?
              5. dmmyak40
                dmmyak40 25 November 2020 20: 47
                +5
                Liam, links to LJ Okan are very good, Denis is a good pilot and popularizer of aviation. There is one big BUT: if you are actively involved in the discussion about aviation and piloting, then you should (or should) lay out the text from the final report of the IAC, for example:
                The crash of the Boeing 737-8KN A6-FDN occurred while performing
                repeated missed approach due to incorrect configuration and errors in piloting
                with the subsequent loss of the PIC of situational awareness at night, in instrumental
                weather conditions leading to loss of control over flight parameters and collision
                aircraft with the ground. An aircraft accident is classified as loss of control in
                flight (LOC-I).
                And to lay out your opinion, but not to refer to the opinion of another person, even a pilot-instructor. You should not look at things with the eyes and mind of another person. Even without a post in LiveJournal it was enough for me to read the report: after all, aerodynamics since the late 90s. has not changed, like all the constants and laws of physics and aerodynamics.
                PS You do not owe anything to anyone - neither to me, nor to others. But, if you write about "caught an illusion", then this statement should be documented.
                PSS So what about you and the aviation?
              6. Liam
                Liam 25 November 2020 21: 11
                -7
                Quote: dmmyak40
                loss of the PIC of situational awareness at night

                Translate this phrase from bureaucratic to ordinary. I caught the illusion of KVS. And the VP was distracted by communication with the airport and did not have time to intervene.
                Okan-pro. A real, not a website self-praise.
                The second link provides a detailed breakdown of how it happens during the go-around and how often it happens to the pilots
              7. dmmyak40
                dmmyak40 25 November 2020 21: 40
                +6
                You are very careful to avoid questions about your belonging to aviation, this is one of the methods of demagoguery. As an orator - you are a plus, otherwise a minus.
                Quote: Liam
                Translate this phrase from bureaucratic to ordinary.
                Well, to begin with, this is not a bureaucratic language at all, but a professional one. What for? Sapienti sat. Does this apply to you?
                Okan is a real pro, I agree. Are you a pro? What we finished, where and what we flew, class, flight time, minimum.
                Will you announce it?
                Otherwise, you can inadvertently switch to the same status that you wrote about at the end of your post.
              8. Liam
                Liam 25 November 2020 22: 26
                -7
                Quote: dmmyak40
                You are very careful about avoiding questions about your aviation affiliation

                What's that got to do with it? Belong to aviation (supposedly) and pretend that words Loss of situational awareness KBCohm is something different than
                Illusions

                The spatial position illusion occurs when the pilot's perception is disoriented relative to the actual movement of the aircraft.
                - this is either hypocrisy, or ignorance of the materiel, or, even worse, a game of giveaway to save the image of a self-praise colleague on-site. With the transfer of arrows from topic to collective farm -And who are you
                Quote: dmmyak40
                Okan is a real pro, I agree

                And he unequivocally (after reading all the reports) claims that the PIC of the Rostov flight caught the illusion.

                The crew, especially the piloting pilot, the PIC, were in a state of heightened psycho-emotional stress. Nevertheless, the VP, apparently, retained an understanding of the situation until the last, he actively prompted the PIC.

                2. In the process of leaving, the VP actively helped the PIC (in teams)

                3. The PIC, while piloting during a go-around, set the stabilizer fully to dive. Apparently, it was at the moment of this action that the VP was distracted by frequency permutation and calling the Circle dispatcher. The aircraft began to descend, due to the triggering of the Flap Load Relief, the flaps were removed from 15 to 10 in speed.

                4. Even being in the loop, the VP did not actively intervene in piloting, at least until the moment when the situation turned into a critical one.


                In the history of aviation, there are many cases when the pilot "caught the illusion", and it ended in tragedy. There are also many known cases when pilots successfully got out of the created situation.

                That is, the problem of losing orientation in space with the invention of the Glass Cockpit has not disappeared. Moreover, despite the traditionally great emphasis on "catching" the roll illusion caused by the "obscure indication", numerous events in the go-around accident history suggest that pilots confused recruitment and descent. That is, when flying with a descent and with an acceleration, the pilot, distracted from the control of the spatial position of the aircraft, feels the set.


                Excuse me, but Okan has more faith than the local Chkalovs
              9. Pete mitchell
                Pete mitchell 25 November 2020 22: 45
                +5
                You know, for the sake of interest, I looked at the proposed materials - I started with the second, the phrase Both pilots if they are not monitoring instruments more than enough for me - I will continue to use the instructions and manuals from the manufacturer, the company. It is safer, and I prefer not to clog my students' heads with extraneous information.
                Quote: Liam
                Quote: dmmyak40
                loss of the PIC of situational awareness at night

                Translate this phrase from bureaucratic to ordinary. I caught the illusion of the PIC. And the VP was distracted by communication with the airport and
                With this passage, you have clearly demonstrated that you are very far from modern aviation and are confusing concepts. Probably all this is really interesting for you and you have accumulated a huge amount of information, but as Lomonosov said Mathematics she puts the mind in order... I bet you don't have systematic training. Which does not exclude the above.
                Now let's go back to our sheep, at least you are able to
                Quote: Pete Mitchell
                Quote: Pete Mitchell
                Did you find the carcass?
                You either present or do as it should
              10. dmmyak40
                dmmyak40 25 November 2020 22: 48
                +4
                Well, that's all there was to prove.
                Let's "let's stop this useless discussion": you live by the mind of Denis Okan, along the way, letting out poisonous comments in the local Chkalovs (although you came up with a very unfortunate comparison. Valery Pavlovich was an air hooligan).
                And we will live ours: some are flying now, and some have long been retired. But, unlike you - an Internet expert, you have real flight experience behind your back.
                Liam, the raider pilot ...
                PS And you will remove Okan from the pedestal. He, of course, is a competent and experienced guy, but he did not taste real plowing (judging by his career).
                And to fly right on a Tu-154 with a navigator and then on Boeings with such automation is ... (no offense to all Tupole pilots) you can't do a Yak-40 with ARK and GMK-1G without a navigator for 6 landings per flight.
              11. Liam
                Liam 25 November 2020 22: 57
                -6
                Quote: dmmyak40
                And to fly right on a Tu-154 with a navigator and then on Boeings with such automation is ... (no offense to all Tupole pilots) you can't do a Yak-40 with ARK and GMK-1G without a navigator for 6 landings per flight.

                And then irrigate the corn fields on the An-2. And then build a VIPa here rotating like a propeller in the highest echelons of ICAO, a bosom friend of Italian pilots, a teacher of the air force academies who fly fishing on Cessna friends, etc., etc., from the endless arsenal of an engineer Lokhankina)
                All the best hi
              12. Pete mitchell
                Pete mitchell 25 November 2020 23: 09
                +5
                Quote: Liam
                a bosom friend of Italian pilots ..

                I'm still wildly sorry, are you hinting at me? On the avatar is my photo, it was true for a long time. The commander promised to treat the best pizza in Italy, I somehow did not get it
              13. dmmyak40
                dmmyak40 25 November 2020 23: 32
                +6
                And then Ostap suffered ...
                Have you confused me with someone?
                Here I am.
              14. Liam
                Liam 25 November 2020 23: 34
                -4
                )))
                All these hunting stories are not yours. There is one figure here
              15. Pete mitchell
                Pete mitchell 25 November 2020 23: 43
                +5
                Wow what a shape good
            2. Pete mitchell
              Pete mitchell 26 November 2020 11: 29
              +5
              Now that everyone has calmed down and understood a lot about each other, there are unanswered questions:
              Quote: Pete Mitchell
              Did you find the carcass? You will either present or do as it should
              Show me and I will sincerely apologize; take a responsible approach.
              And if you don't understand: Dmitry defended you to the last
              Recommendation, if you permit: show solidity and just say Ancient that got excited. This will be appreciated by many, and it is useful for you to leave the opportunity to ask a question.
              Good day
            3. Pete mitchell
              Pete mitchell 27 November 2020 11: 25
              +6
              I understand that my hopes for a solid act will not come true. Well, quoting a wiki / live journal and labeling is one thing, but being in charge is another. You are apparently not capable of this, sorry request
              Oh recourse senor not responsible for his words, you get off the pedestal
              Quote: Pete Mitchell
              25.11.2020
              Quote: Pete Mitchell
              Did you find the carcass? Or, as always, "merge"?
              You either present or do as it should
        2. Pete mitchell
          Pete mitchell 25 November 2020 22: 59
          +5
          Quote: Liam
          Excuse me, but Okan has more faith than the local Chkalovs

          NN52, I hope you and I are compared with Chkalov? Comrade Colonel will come back, I will certainly boast. Growing
          Dmitry is right, it's time to tie it up, it's not fun at all: but initially it is correct go-around? No illusions for you, no flap relief for you, the second would go about his business and you know, everyone would be alive.
        3. NN52
          NN52 25 November 2020 23: 19
          +1
          "Comrade Colonel" is the Ancient One?) I don't know that, I'm sorry))
        4. Pete mitchell
          Pete mitchell 25 November 2020 23: 35
          +5
          Get to know, it won't get any worse. Enough
        5. NN52
          NN52 25 November 2020 23: 38
          0
          Why do I need it?) Have already met.
        6. Pete mitchell
          Pete mitchell 25 November 2020 23: 40
          +5
          And you try, you look everything will come to the horizon
        7. NN52
          NN52 25 November 2020 23: 44
          +1
          And I don’t need this fucking ... in the horizon I use a "trimmer", "slip" is literally eliminated with a pedal ...) and the flight is normal.

          Yes, and I have not been on the site for a long time ... but here I went ...
  • NN52
    NN52 25 November 2020 22: 06
    +2
    Liam (Liam)
    Does this fragment tell you something?

    This applies to this disaster.
    Instrument readings?
  • Pete mitchell
    Pete mitchell 25 November 2020 22: 25
    +5
    hi one more with slanted eyes lol Look at that guy and teach him to fly by science, not by livejournal laughing
    It was he already with a reduced vertical, it was twice as large.
  • NN52
    NN52 25 November 2020 22: 30
    +1
    It's already a second before the "mouthful of water" ... overload, comrade Pete Mithell, what?)
  • Pete mitchell
    Pete mitchell 25 November 2020 22: 33
    +4
    They wrote that he pulled 8,2 at 300 meters; vertical was 38800/200 cm half here. The angle of attack seems to be under 30 with all this
  • NN52
    NN52 25 November 2020 23: 09
    +1
    like 8,5 ...
  • Pete mitchell
    Pete mitchell 25 November 2020 23: 17
    +4
    Well, here the height is already 195ft. It happens that around the Island there are often multi-layered ragged clouds, what kind of visual piloting is there, it's a pity
  • NN52
    NN52 25 November 2020 23: 23
    +2
    8,5 units is definitely a short-term ... (the duration depends on the preparation and the PPK will not help much) .. here is the answer why I did not have time to "hit" the pens and get out ...
  • Pete mitchell
    Pete mitchell 25 November 2020 23: 27
    +4
    At 1000ft it was 8,2 and vertical for 30000ft / m; at 195ft it was 8,5 and vertical less than 18000 - it turns out he pulled to the end and did not think about the handles
  • NN52
    NN52 25 November 2020 23: 35
    +2
    here is the answer ... there was no loss of spatial orientation and illusions))) just the guy was wrong a little ... everything can be seen from the report.
  • Pete mitchell
    Pete mitchell 25 November 2020 23: 39
    +4
    I think he still got lost and drove the plane into an unpleasant position, and then tried to pull
  • Liam
    Liam 25 November 2020 23: 52
    +1
    Quote: NN52
    here is the answer ... there was no loss of spatial orientation and illusion)

    Really? How are you doing with your English grite?
    . As the MP exited the low cloud layer at approximately 1,000ft,
    with a visible horizon and “ground rush” of the rapidly approaching ocean, the MP immediately
    sensed his low pitch attitude and position and initiated a recovery attempt of the MA, but was
    unable to complete the recovery based upon the low altitude and speed of his descent
    .
  • NN52
    NN52 25 November 2020 23: 55
    +1
    Liam (Liam)

    You see the readings of the instruments ... they don't tell you about anything ???
    In several stages?
    Analyze the change in overload.
  • Liam
    Liam 25 November 2020 23: 58
    -6
    They tell me that he came out of the clouds only 1000 feet, there he saw the horizon and the "illusions" ended. I tried to "emerge", but there was not enough height reserve.
    Everything is clearly written in the report. It is understandable even for an ordinary person. Only the Chkalovs are lost in three pines and are building "smart" theories with the air of connoisseurs
  • NN52
    NN52 26 November 2020 00: 03
    +1
    Liam (Liam

    Believe it or not ... but I “caught” the roll illusion while still a student on L 39 “under the curtain”. Fortunately, there was no more later ...
    And about the report ... I didn't want to talk, but ... what do you think you found from the plane in the end? after such a speed of "coming" into the water?)

    And by the way ... Valery Chkalov, my fellow countryman.
  • Liam
    Liam 26 November 2020 00: 12
    -5
    Quote: NN52
    Liam (Liam

    Believe it or not ... but I “caught” the roll illusion while still a student on L 39 “under the curtain”. Fortunately, there was no more later ...
    And about the report ... I didn't want to talk, but ... what do you think you found from the plane in the end? after such a speed of "coming" into the water?)

    And by the way ... Valery Chkalov, my fellow countryman.

    I am impressed, of course, by your personal grunt ... but this has nothing to do with the topic. The example with Talboyev was not for nothing that I brought.
    It is surprising, of course, that such a big specialist does not know that aircraft recorders usually remain after accidents ... and in this case, exercises were conducted, with a bunch of observing aircraft, ground and air radars, all aircraft evolutions and flight parameters were recorded by dozens of "objective control means" for Investigators had kilotons and cubic meters of information on this flight.
    You yourself have seen screenshots with all flight parameters, almost every second.

    So trust the local experienced connoisseurs after that ...
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Liam
    Liam 26 November 2020 00: 22
    -5
    )))

    You would be an expert in the IAC with such powerful knowledge and arguments ... and with the rest of the flying site bohemia as consultants on a voluntary basis
  • Liam
    Liam 26 November 2020 00: 27
    -5
    Quote: NN52
    what remains after the fall?

    Recorders usually remain ... they knew for such a case and were invented. Moreover, they remain intact even after impacts on water, on the ground and even in the fire of many tens of tons of kerosene, which is quite a common thing in plane crashes. And data from the radars of other aircraft, AWACS and who else took part in the exercises, they also crashed against the water and softened?
  • Pete mitchell
    Pete mitchell 26 November 2020 00: 08
    +3
    You understand, we are happy for you
    Quote: Pete Mitchell
    Now let's go back to our sheep, at least you are able to
    Quote: Pete Mitchell
    Quote: Pete Mitchell
    Did you find the carcass?
    You either present or do as it should
  • The comment was deleted.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Liam
    Liam 25 November 2020 22: 44
    -3
    Quote: NN52
    Does this fragment tell you something?

    That you are trying to arrange an exam for me.
    Quote: NN52
    This applies to this disaster.

    Discard the link to the original source of this screen here
  • NN52
    NN52 25 November 2020 22: 57
    -1
    Liam (Liam)
    https://www.airforcemag.com/docs/type/accident/
    yes, please, how tell me ... will the official report suit you? with English how?

  • Pete mitchell
    Pete mitchell 25 November 2020 20: 34
    +4
    Quote: dmmyak40
    Liam ... But don't waste your kerosene ...

    Dmitry, how can we Asians with slanted eyes, after all, we are in the old fashioned way, science from textbooks, and not from live journalо-v. There is nothing to talk about with us lol especially for those who understand the meaning of the word sprinkle.
    We will not worry, especially
    Quote: Pete Mitchell
    Quote: Pete Mitchell
    Did you find the carcass?
    You either present or do as it should
  • dmmyak40
    dmmyak40 25 November 2020 21: 45
    +3
    Well, what can you do if according to Blok we are like that: not only with slanting eyes, but also with "greedy eyes."
    PS America in the Peter the Great Strait announced this ... wassat
  • iouris
    iouris 24 November 2020 22: 49
    0
    As far as I remember, the main reason is the "human factor". The pilot was simply tortured (chronic violation of the regime of work and rest). Moreover, the representative of the airline said that from the point of view of the management, the death of the plane and passengers is not a reason to change the policy, because airline accident statistics "fit" into ICAO regulations. Well, the payments for the dead Russians are simply scanty (if they also paid monetary compensation).
    1. Pete mitchell
      Pete mitchell 24 November 2020 23: 01
      +3
      A mountain of factors of organizational and working order: formally, there are no violations, which of course is a disgrace. In the end, the wrong decision and, in the end, the wrong execution of the exit - everyone died. The captain had one foot in the other company.
      As for compensation, nationality does not matter there, this is a different level
  • Dkuznecov
    Dkuznecov 24 November 2020 22: 33
    +1
    I think the overload was the wildest.
    1. Pete mitchell
      Pete mitchell 24 November 2020 23: 56
      +4
      Quote: DKuznecov
      I think the overload was the wildest.

      In the end, he fell to three hundred meters from a vertical of two hundred meters per second and pulled 8,2g, but this was no longer enough
      https://www.airforcemag.com/investigation-found-pilot-error-caused-june-f-15-crash/
      1. dmmyak40
        dmmyak40 25 November 2020 20: 37
        +2
        Boeing's PIC did not leave any other alternatives for himself - only landing, which drove himself into the "tunnel" of one solution. And everything grew out of this.
        It is very similar to the situation that developed after the words of the commander of the Tu-154 (I can not vouch for the accuracy): "Just try to go to the second circle - I won't let you plant any more." Whoever is in the subject will understand what it is about.
        1. Pete mitchell
          Pete mitchell 25 November 2020 20: 53
          +2
          Dmitry, if you are talking about the Rostov tragedy - there are kg of factors and in the IAC report everything is, in principle, logically reflected: he drove himself, the departure was carried out incorrectly, in the cockpit they were no longer a crew, some went to the forest, some for firewood. There are problems from the organization of the work process to operational problems: from Company Policies to all CRM topics. Well, the skipper saw himself in another company already, two weeks remained. So before the error in performing the care ...
          1. dmmyak40
            dmmyak40 25 November 2020 22: 04
            +1
            Yes, I mean her. And the paragraph below is about how with one phrase you can psychologically break the co-pilot and, as a result of this and your own rotozyism, ruin people and the plane. A vivid example of how not to do.
            PS I deliberately do not name the disaster - maybe our non-sofa pilot Liam will tell us which AP is meant?
            Straight, "What? Where? When?": What's in the black box?
  • ancient
    ancient 25 November 2020 13: 20
    +2
    Quote: Liam
    Or the Typhoon in Italy.

    Everything is clear with you ... after this comment you showed yourself to be a complete layman in "aviation", because you simply do not see that the typhoon, after performing a combat turn (or an ascending oblique loop), immediately performs a half roll with an entrance coup ... at the same time, that the descending point of entry into the maneuver for the given parameters of the aircraft (Gpol, Hpol, - are negligible, V entry is not permissible high) and the modes of operation of the AM do not correspond to the entry mode).
    Therefore, the pilot did not have enough altitude to exit!
    On the face ... a mistake in piloting technique !!!
    And there are no illusions or distrust in the readings of the instruments here.!
    Go teach .. "lessons" wassat
  • HaByxoDaBHocep
    HaByxoDaBHocep 25 November 2020 02: 09
    -1
    Isn't it dangerous to completely rely on cartoons, in one book about an alternative reality I read how evil Russian hatskers changed the picture on the virtual helmets of American pilots and they, as a result, killed themselves and the aircraft carrier
    1. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 27 November 2020 21: 22
      0
      Not that they overestimated the flight altitude by instruments, as a result, the transport worker happily slammed into the aircraft carrier (Fedor Berezin. War 2030)
  • tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 24 November 2020 20: 34
    -2
    Interestingly, with such a wording, will the family of the crashed pilot be paid something or will they calculate for F 15?
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 24 November 2020 20: 52
      +4
      Life insurance is required. And the equipment is insured.
  • Avior
    Avior 24 November 2020 20: 53
    +2
    Not used to the dashboard yet, but visually mistaken?
    I wonder what about insurance and other payments?
  • Dmitry Makarov
    Dmitry Makarov 24 November 2020 21: 08
    -6
    Affected by the wear of the airframe, the Americans for a long time pretended to be hegemons, and raced on their F-15s wherever they got. Today, the entire aviation of Sscha is full of rubbish, and an incapacitated flawed F-35 looms for replacement.
    In general, you understand that the USA song is sung.
    1. Pamir
      Pamir 24 November 2020 21: 16
      +1
      Yes, it’s easier to assess others, it’s more difficult to assess our own. It wasn’t on the trash that two SU-34s dumped each other in the Sea of ​​Okhotsk, out of four, only one was saved.
      1. Dmitry Makarov
        Dmitry Makarov 24 November 2020 21: 20
        -4
        Eaglets learn to fly.
    2. Vovk
      Vovk 24 November 2020 21: 26
      0
      It is strange, because the aircraft equipment had to give sound signals about low altitude and critical flight angle. And even at low altitude, automatic flight stabilization is usually cut in. Maybe they were testing and fine-tuning the new software on the aircraft - for this, maybe there was a training interception?
      Indeed, at one time on the F-16 there were problems with flight on instruments, they gave false information and a number of US combat pilots paid with their lives for equipment errors ... and then they also blamed everything on the pilots ... until relatives pressed the military in court.
    3. Revolver
      Revolver 24 November 2020 22: 00
      -1
      Quote: Dmitry Makarov
      Today all Sscha aviation is full of trash

      Is the F-22 junk too?
      Quote: Dmitry Makarov
      incapacitated flaw F-35

      Who bombed the Persians in Syria last night, flying over Syria almost to the border with Iraq? And the vaunted "having no analogs" Syrian air defense did not notice nichrome.
      1. Cyril G ...
        Cyril G ... 27 November 2020 21: 25
        0
        Quote: Nagan
        And the vaunted "lacking analogs" Syrian air defense did not notice nichrome.

        So over Syria, you can fly as you like. In fact, there is no air defense system. It has a focal character.
  • APASUS
    APASUS 24 November 2020 21: 12
    +2
    That's why pilots are taught to look at instruments, and not to use their senses.
    1. Dimonst
      Dimonst 24 November 2020 21: 43
      +3
      There is such a thing. Usually after that the numbers are written off. Vestibule. And about 3,5 in height ... Colleagues, the speed there is 1450.
  • echo
    echo 24 November 2020 22: 02
    -5
    excuses and excuses now this is a pilot next time his flock of birds, how would these pilots even react in real combat situations USA is just full of shit just like the Israelis are their biggest enemy Corvida judging by their press releases but we all know what really strikes these american flying shit
  • iouris
    iouris 24 November 2020 22: 55
    +2
    Since the training interception took place over the sea at this time of the year (haze, lack of horizon line), the most likely reason is the loss of spatial orientation. There was a case when the MiG-23UB entered the ground almost vertically, two first class pilots were killed. They said that they had celebrated their birthday the day before.
    1. Pete mitchell
      Pete mitchell 25 November 2020 01: 12
      +3
      Here is a description from usaf - everything is really as you described
      https://www.airforcemag.com/investigation-found-pilot-error-caused-june-f-15-crash/
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Kushka
    Kushka 24 November 2020 23: 01
    +4
    For a long time, in the 70s, there was a Czech Luna Park in Kaliningrad.
    There was an attraction - a trailer on warm asphalt, in it a sofa,
    6 seats with armrests and screen. The light goes out and in front of you is a mountain
    snowy track. At first the slope is small, but the speed increases.
    The breeze ruffles the hair, the "blizzard" whistles in the ears, the sleigh (sofa) is strong
    shakes. And suddenly the bias rises sharply. At the end, the track is almost vertical
    goes down and you can see the bottom of the gorge ........ the light turns on, everyone has fingers
    white, dug into the armrests. But everyone knows - only five steps
    and you are in a green park.
    1. Pete mitchell
      Pete mitchell 25 November 2020 01: 22
      +4
      Quote: Kushka
      For a long time, in the 70s, there was a Czech Luna Park in Kaliningrad.

      All modern simulators are built on this principle: the initial movement of the platform is created, the initial impulse of physical movement, respectively, the picture begins to move ... the platform smoothly stops moving, and the visualization continues to move ... the illusion of movement is created. Further, who is in what is much and how much the wallet allows. If the 777 simulator is moved across the airfield, then they ask you not to look at the picture, look down: do not believe it - there have been cases of turbulent pilots, in reality the cockpit is 4 meters in front of the front pillar and at a height it seems 9 meters, people were frankly sick because of the illusion of lateral movements
      1. Kushka
        Kushka 25 November 2020 13: 32
        +1
        It’s a different matter, in the same 70s - I saw the Yak-40 simulator in a local
        squadron - glide path - the runway is approaching, a loud clap - the landing gear,
        squeal of brakes (speakers, like a refrigerator "Saratov"
        thought) - everything is simple and tasteful.
    2. Alexander Seklitsky
      Alexander Seklitsky 25 November 2020 06: 40
      +1
      that's something else ... here recently I almost kissed my head on the floor, in a virtual reality helmet, although I was standing on my own feet. They put a giant swing in my pants when in this reality they started twisting me at a height of 20 And then at the end of the attraction, like this swing collapses and you fly into the abyss with your face. It's really scary even though you're standing on the concrete floor
      1. Pete mitchell
        Pete mitchell 25 November 2020 11: 00
        +4
        Quote: Alexander Seklitsky
        in a virtual reality helmet

        This is the creation of a complete visual illusion that is downright deceiving. "Fifth point feeling" - this is probably the next stage in the development of simulators. I hope I can retire in time laughing
  • bukhach
    bukhach 25 November 2020 01: 14
    +2
    Quote: Observer2014
    Quote: Nagan
    Quote: Nyrobsky
    the US itself collapsed

    Generations of Russians are born, live, and die in the expectation that the dollar and America are about to collapse.

    laughing yes And the Yellowstone volcano will explode. wassat Until then. They all use the American achievements of the national economy, from which the operating system is used to print angry comments, jeans and heaps of everything else yes drinks laughing And where to rest and where the elites hang out and live in general, complete rzhaka. lol In short, when will you blow up this volcano there? For the prospect of living up to retirement in Russia is worse than your mega explosion. At least we will not be so offended.

    Very fun, do you really want it? It will not hurt you, it will be very painful if this happens in reality. And about the American economy, you can denounce the citizens of all countries that do not favor the United States and nevertheless enjoy their achievements, as they themselves use created by others.
    1. sleeve
      sleeve 25 November 2020 05: 57
      -1
      So they have from this robustness, from their "achievements". "The national economy of the USA" - sounds like that ...
  • Kunica
    Kunica 25 November 2020 02: 26
    0
    The altimeter and artificial horizon are sometimes useful.
  • sleeve
    sleeve 25 November 2020 05: 55
    0
    Distracted ... 6,2 km 3,6 km. Collided with water. Harsh.
  • EvilLion
    EvilLion 25 November 2020 08: 10
    -2
    The description of the accident reminds more of something like "2 MiG-23s broke through the clouds and crashed into the water" from the 80s. The super-mega-duper American technology cannot even issue a warning of a collision with the surface in time, not in a dive, but it descended from 3 km.
  • Gunner
    Gunner 25 November 2020 12: 21
    +3
    The American pilot was killed in a training battle with an imitation of a Russian aircraft. Brilliant.
  • zenion
    zenion 25 November 2020 18: 17
    0
    Bad weather in Russia destroyed not only Bonaparte and Hitler, but also shot down this year an American fighter that wanted to scare the weather, carried away by the pursuit of clouds.
  • WOT Dnepr
    WOT Dnepr 25 November 2020 23: 12
    0
    Michael died, and thin with him
  • andr327
    andr327 26 November 2020 07: 28
    0
    This article, among other things, was the reason for creating fake news that the pilot was intercepting a Russian plane. The authors refer to VO journalists. This is done deliberately or out of the paucity of the mind of journalists - a question. Admins shouldn't sue these experts! All the same, we guys are serious.
    1. andr327
      andr327 26 November 2020 07: 42
      +1
      and here is a more detailed picture of the fake
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Igor Borisov_2
    Igor Borisov_2 26 November 2020 17: 47
    0
    Quote: Pete Mitchell
    You are already talking about another level, I will refrain from discussing this. When he first moved to Britain, the Britons found him more than half a thousand kilometers away with an ordinary stationary air defense radar and voiced this fact. Congress in sadness: why was the plane seen for half a day? Oh there are lenses, oh there is an unfavorable combination of precipitation and air masses... The reason for all this was that it was discovered by a very ancient meter-long radar, which at that time remained with the conservative Brits and ... RF. They blurted out their own.
    PS I didn’t find a word about this event on the internet, but before it was ...


    If memory does not change the "Ramona" complex left by the Czechs after the Warsaw Pact .....
  • GRANATE-19
    GRANATE-19 26 November 2020 19: 44
    0
    Study, study and study again!
    As the Great LENIN bequeathed !!!