The valve in the Soyuz rocket turned out to be defective: Rogozin confirmed the information

The reason for the technical malfunction of the Soyuz-ST-A launch vehicle, which is being prepared for launch from the Kuru cosmodrome, was a defective valve. The discovery of the malfunction was confirmed by Dmitry Rogozin, General Director of Roscosmos.

The head of Roskosmos confirmed the information on the detection and replacement of the faulty valve. According to him, there is always a marriage, but in the space industry it is "very expensive." Rogozin also noted a sharp drop in the responsibility and quality of work of suppliers of parts for space technology.

Everybody always has a marriage, but in our business it is expensive. The good news is that a poor-quality part is detected on time by the quality control system.

- he said.

At the same time Rogozin does not consider news about the detection of a faulty valve, negative, in his opinion, the negative would have been at the start of the rocket with a defect that was not detected during control, as a result of which "it would return to the ground as a heap of metal."

As it became known earlier, last week during the tests of the Soyuz-ST-A launch vehicle in the assembly and measuring complex, a leakage of the electric pneumatic valve was revealed, after which a similar part was ordered for replacement. The new valve has already been delivered from Russia and is being installed.

The launch of the Soyuz rocket from the Kuru cosmodrome is scheduled for November 29, it is supposed to launch the Emirati Falcon Eye 2 satellite into orbit.

Comments

[Alexander Vorontsov]

It's good that we found it before the start ...

[Starover_Z]

"Build" a supplier for the money spent on delivery and replacement, as well as for a delay in the start!

[Alexander Vorontsov]

Quote: Starover_Z

"Build" a supplier for the money spent on delivery and replacement, as well as for a delay in the start!

The space industry in Russia was born in the USSR. With a PLANE economy. Not under capitalism.
An enterprise like GEOFIZIKA-KOSMOS, which once developed and produces highly specialized devices for missiles, how should it earn money in your opinion?
To take something from them, they must have something to begin with, probably yes?
How should they make money? Vacuum cleaners? Or shopping carts?
The state gives them money. There is nothing to take from them.

[Starover_Z]

Quote: Alexander Vorontsov

An enterprise like GEOFIZIKA-KOSMOS, which once developed and produces highly specialized devices for missiles, how should it earn money in your opinion?

If an enterprise is highly specialized, then it must be State, and from there it must be financed! Such offices should not be private shops in any way, which, out of economy, will produce, for example, disposable screwdrivers made of "an alloy of cardboard and aluminum foil" - (from a joke)!

[U-58]

You think so. So do I.
But the general course of the ruling bourgeoisie is aimed at general privatization. Sell ​​everything to private hands.
Then resell at a higher price.
The United States is an example, where from 80 to 90% of components are made by private traders.
Elon Musk is the most suitable example

[hagen]

Quote: U-58

The United States is an example, where from 80 to 90% of components are made by private traders.

Not a bad example. Therefore, it became possible to use military developments in civilian life. The Internet is an eloquent example of this. If it had been developed in the USSR, civil society would not have seen it. Actually, any corporation in the United States, engaged in the military-industrial complex, provides the population with high-quality consumer products with the same highly qualified personnel, technologies, decision-making and quality control standards that produce military products. Isn't that why they (the collective West) were so ahead of the USSR in this very "everyday life", and we, in turn, tried by all means to acquire it? After all, this is one of the points about which the Union "crashed". And about private hands. Under the USSR, everyone could see, for example, how a collective farmer's private household economy differs from the state of the economy of the same collective farm. I would not discount the personal interest in the prosperity of the enterprise of all employees of the enterprise. It means a lot. As the fact that adversarial production tends to improve the final product. We must be able to take the best from the enemy. Of course, without fanaticism ...

[Boa kaa]

Quote: Starover_Z

"Build" a supplier for the money spent on delivery and replacement, as well as for a delay in the start!

The "supplier" can slip anything that gets into his head and his little hands are "chipped". But there is a system for monitoring and checking the quality and performance of the product. Test benches and so on ...
As under Serdyukov, the state acceptance was defeated, so it is still poor and still cannot get in shape. This is where the cause of crashes and unsuccessful launches is.
(More thoroughly is necessary, comrades, more thoroughly (c).

[WIKI]

Quote: Boa constrictor KAA

This is where the reason for the crash and unsuccessful launches is:

This is where the cause of crashes and unsuccessful launches is. "When it was not possible to fulfill the daily production rate of rifles once - and Dmitry Fedorovich honestly named the figure: 9997 instead of the planned 10, Stalin insinuatingly noted that if Comrade Ustinov repeats such a report again, another person will sit in the people's commissar's chair."

[Aag]

Quote: WIKI

Quote: Boa constrictor KAA

This is where the reason for the crash and unsuccessful launches is:

This is where the cause of crashes and unsuccessful launches is. "When it was not possible to fulfill the daily production rate of rifles once - and Dmitry Fedorovich honestly named the figure: 9997 instead of the planned 10, Stalin insinuatingly noted that if Comrade Ustinov repeats such a report again, another person will sit in the people's commissar's chair."

Don't you think that most of the problems are due to the fact that the majority of officials have learned to pass off the desired summary as valid?

[Looking for]

Iosif Vissarionovich was a HEAD. Not like "the present tribe."

[hagen]

Quote: Boa constrictor KAA

As under Serdyukov, the state acceptance was destroyed,

And what relation did Serdyukov have to Roscosmos? I would rather see here a national problem in the preparation of personnel replacement. The work of an engineer, a person who produces, should be honored and respected in society. We have diligently educated and continue to educate certified waiters. And school lessons of labor ("technology") are still instrumentally and methodically at the level of the 60s of the last century. But there are (small) advances, the share of state employees in engineering universities is gradually increasing.

[senima56]

You don't need to "build" anyone. The general director should be fired, and the chief technologist and his deputy should be "brought to criminal responsibility"! I am sure that the quality of products will increase dramatically at all enterprises of the space industry!

[Buffet]

And then, in the era of capitalism, no money can be lured into such a position. If for every miss they will plant. Of course, there must be responsibility. But the responsibility must be systemic. And not one person who is not always aware of what his subordinates are doing. At our work, they also wanted to do so recently. As a result, OTK cannot punish themselves, referring to the supplier and shrug their shoulders: "Well, what did you want, we supply electronics from abroad, it is not known when where and how stored."

[gsev]

Quote: senima56

the technologist and his deputy "to prosecute"! I am sure that the quality of products will increase dramatically

Currently, the rest of the technologists from this plant will run to get a job as sellers of batteries and stationery, so as not to sit down at the head.

[Boris ⁣ Shaver]

Quote: Starover_Z

"Build" a supplier for the money spent on delivery and replacement, as well as for a delay in the start!

In these situations, in my experience, there are usually 2 most common patterns of "working" with a contractor.
Either the contractor is very much "expected" from the customer for not quite market reasons, and then he sells whatever is horrible and still remains in business.
Either the contractor was already "built" with money to such an extent that he is not able to maintain at least some quality of the output.

[BecmepH]

Quote: Starover_Z

"Build" a supplier for the money spent on delivery and replacement, as well as for a delay in the start!

What does the supplier have to do with it? He supplies such products and of such quality as are allowed to him.
Before installing a part, it (part) goes through many hands and devices.

Everyone always has a marriage

It is not a defective part, but a leader. Not this way?

[Kart]

No.
It is not a defective part, but the one who made it.
The key word is defective. That is, it was made wrong.

[BecmepH]

Quote: Carte

No.
It is not a defective part, but the one who made it.
The key word is defective. That is, it was made wrong.

Such a detail should not go beyond the workshop! And if it came out and, moreover, stood in the intended place, then the manufacturer is not to blame for the installation, but who INSTALLED it !!! So they are "defective". And the one who holds them is also defective. Do you blame the manufacturer ... (((

[Piramidon]

Quote: Alexander Vorontsov

It's good that we found it before the start ...

It would be better if found before installing this valve on the PH. After all, each unit must be checked at the stand before installation.

[smart ass]

Rogozin himself whistles a valve that is defective

[Andre___86]

There is always a scrap, but in such an industry, it should not end up in the assembly into a finished product.

[Alexander Vorontsov]

Quote: Andre___86

There is always a scrap, but in such an industry, it should not end up in the assembly into a finished product.

Not all nodes can be tested separately for operability. More precisely, it is not rational to build 250 stands to test everything separately.
Moreover, this will not exclude the absence of a malfunction on the finished product in case of errors during installation on the finished product itself. Those. check on the rocket itself will still have to.
If you evaluate the training system itself - was the malfunction detected? Yes. This is the main thing.

[Andre___86]

Look at stands for testing military aircraft in the USSR. Everyone experienced it. In the case of a rocket costing a lot of money - any stand is justified

[VORON538]

And in the USSR, rockets fell and exploded, and in the USA
Only now it is not customary to remember this among all the protesters, and in the USSR they did not talk about it at all. But this is a fact! In this particular case, it is better to take off later than crash on people's heads.

[_Sergei_]

The BMP had a stand for each unit. Until PZeshnik accepts the assembly, he has not entered.

[figwam]

Quote: Alexander Vorontsov

Not all nodes can be checked for operability

It is possible on a rocket, but not at the manufacturer's plant, some miracles, so we will not fly far.

[DymOk_v_dYmke]

Quote: Alexander Vorontsov

If you evaluate the training system itself - was the malfunction detected? Yes. This is the main thing.

The main thing is whether this is the only malfunction.

[Undecim]

Not all units can be tested separately for operability.
Lavra Klitschko haunt?
And today, tomorrow, not everyone can watch. Rather, they can not only watch everything. Few can do it

[Aag]

Quote: Andre___86

There is always a scrap, but in such an industry, it should not end up in the assembly into a finished product.

Speak the obvious thing.
Solutions were found and implemented a long time ago (then they were lost).
It is high time to revive, if there is a desire.

[Vita vko]

Quote: Andre___86

in such an industry, it should not be assembled into a finished product.

If this is not a diversion.

[Lech from Android.]

Cool ... One little detail can cause multi-billion dollar losses. We must somehow insure ourselves in such a case.

[AVA77]

The rocket basically consists of small parts hung on supporting structures, you can't get away from this. Unless, of course, the missiles are cast entirely from cast iron But there is again an ambush, casting defects may be.

[Starover_Z]

Quote: AVA77

Unless, of course, the missiles are cast entirely from cast iron. But there is again an ambush, casting defects may be.

Then do not cast, but print on a 3D printer from cast iron powder! There will definitely not be hidden "shells"!

[NDR-791]

Rogozin also noted a sharp drop in the responsibility and quality of work of suppliers of parts for space technology.
While someone writes songs instead of quality control ...
during tests of the Soyuz-ST-A launch vehicle in the assembly and measuring complex the leakage of the electro-pneumatic valve was revealed, after which a similar part was ordered for replacement.
And they checked it at the factory ??? Who! Each marriage has a name ??? So who ???

[spirit]

That's the problem, in Roscosmos 1 person works, 5 check and 10 more bosses from above) so it's difficult to find the full name, they are all inspectors, bosses

[DymOk_v_dYmke]

Quote: NDR-791

And they checked it at the factory ??? Who! Each marriage has a name ??? So who ???

He was not sprinkled with Holy water ...

[Lech from Android.]

Well, they pulled holy water here.

[DymOk_v_dYmke]

Quote: Lech from Android.

Well, they pulled holy water here.

This is Roskosmos Rogozinsky "pulls".
A video with sprinkling at the cosmodrome before launch has already been uploaded by someone.
If it goes on like this, they can replace the whole acceptance with rituals.

[Doliva63]

Quote: DymOk_v_dYmke

Quote: NDR-791

And they checked it at the factory ??? Who! Each marriage has a name ??? So who ???

He was not sprinkled with Holy water ...

Let the churchmen compensate for the losses!

[slipped]

Quote: NDR-791

While someone writes songs instead of quality control ...

You directly contradict Rogozin's words: "The good thing is that a poorly made part was detected in time by the quality control system."

Quote: NDR-791

And they checked it at the factory ??? Who! Each marriage has a name ??? So who ???

The fact of the matter is that they checked. The defect was found already in the MIC during additional checks introduced by Rogozin.

[Doliva63]

"The defect was found already in the MIC during additional checks introduced by Rogozin."
They say that he had a "closed" department at the faculty of journalism - something like "Checking missiles before launching." So teaching rocket scientists to work is a trifling matter for a journalist.

[Dart2027]

Quote: Doliva63

They say that he had a "closed" department at the Faculty of Journalism - something like

That is, in principle, there is nothing to say?

[slipped]

Quote: Dart2027

That is, in principle, there is nothing to say?

Usually in response they carry nonsense.

[Mountain shooter]

That's what standards like ISO are for this ... So that, by chance, nothing "rolled" ...

[Andre___86]

ISO is complete nonsense. I work in mechanical engineering with the implemented ISO 9001 system. Empty boltology and eyewash.

[Alex Nevs]

But how many saws were sawn.

[Mountain shooter]

Quote: Andre___86

ISO is complete nonsense. I work in mechanical engineering with the implemented ISO 9001 system

If formally implemented, for show, then the result is appropriate.

[Proton]

That's right! ISO systems should be implemented not only at Roscosmos, but also at contractors and suppliers.
True, these quality management systems have been around for many decades, and, apparently, they are not being implemented in Roscosmos. Glad to be wrong.

[Starover_Z]

And what, since the ISO standard, then there is no marriage ?! You just need tight control over the release of any components!

[NDR-791]

We did not have any ISO, and the SU-24 did not see the whole destroyer over the black sea.
Normal control and handles manually if any

[Aag]

Quote: NDR-791

We did not have any ISO, and the SU-24 did not see the whole destroyer over the black sea.
Normal control and handles manually if any

Apparently (by cons), you're not talking about that ...

[NDR-791]

It's just that people have a short memory. Who has Donald Cook not seen over the Black Sea? And what was hanging under the wings of that Drying? That's when this "what hung" was done and there was no ISO. There was OTK Vulgaris and the correct military representative.

[Proton]

There is always a marriage.
It's just that with the correct ISO system, there is much less marriage. Of course, tight control at release is possible, but it is very expensive and also does not cancel marriage.
You can compare the quality of cars assembled here and, for example, in Japan. It's just that a quality control system has been implemented and is working there. True, it differs from the system adopted in the USA and Europe, but it does not change the essence of the matter.
As a production worker, I can say that the system is good when applied correctly.

[Horon]

More pieces of paper, it has nothing to do with real quality. It looks like gold on paper, but in fact it turns out to be a substance. For quality to appear, we need engineers who understand what they do and how it works, but they don't. The salary of little young people does not go, but they still need to cook, educate. The old generation left, those who remained were trained in the 90s, when there were no orders. The level of their technical readiness is also not high. Even with a good salary, you will have to re-create the industry. In the meantime, we must be glad that something is working out at all

[Aag]

Quote: Horon

More pieces of paper, it has nothing to do with real quality. It looks like gold on paper, but in fact it turns out to be a substance. For quality to appear, we need engineers who understand what they do and how it works, but they don't. The salary of little young people does not go, but they still need to cook, educate. The old generation left, those who remained were trained in the 90s, when there were no orders. The level of their technical readiness is also not high. Even with a good salary, you will have to re-create the industry. In the meantime, we must be glad that something is working out at all

I wanted to put "+", but after reading "... In the meantime, we have to be glad that something is working out at all." abstained, did not minus ...

[Stalnov I.P.]

In the old days, at the Gidravlika plant (aviation industry) in Ufa, there was quality control department in all shops. This is what a mess in the space industry was made, where all the details must be checked several times, runs must be done. It turns out not a marriage, but HARMFUL, this is not the first time, it has already become a system. Yes, what is the pop, so is the parish!

[DymOk_v_dYmke]

Quote: I.P. Stalnov.

In the old days, at the Gidravlika plant (aviation industry) in Ufa, there was quality control department in all shops.

In addition to the quality control department, where it is also necessary, there was also a military acceptance.

[Roman070280]

Rogozin also noted a sharp drop in responsibility

Equivalent to how Putin would state a sharp increase in corruption ..))

Shl .. on the one hand, everything can be understood .. and marriage really cannot be ruled out ..
On the other hand, this is how the rocket took off .. flew to Mars .. lowered people there .. But it’s good if it just didn’t take off .. and didn’t go past Mars .. or during the descent the similar valve didn’t fail ..
And this chain is oh so long ..

[Ros 56]

And where is the quality control department when releasing components from the manufacturer, or is everything subject to cost optimization? So this is not optimization, but carelessness.

[Andrea]

An excuse for the current - "there is always a marriage."
It is during mass production that a certain% of marriage is allowed, does he bake "Unions" like pies?
For me, this is an elementary carelessness, if it comes to that in piece production it smacks of sabotage, if not more precisely, sabotage.

[Prisoner]

"According to him, there is always a marriage ..." (c) And the most important marriage in Roscosmos is a defective manager.

[NDR-791]

For that, tracking on VO is well established. What is the quality control department, what is the VP. Not even lying around. Just tell me that you are not satisfied with the work of Roscosmos, you will immediately fly away to minus. However, the truth tingles

[slipped]

Quote: NDR-791

For that, tracking on VO is well established. What is the quality control department, what is the VP. Not even lying around. Just tell me that you are not satisfied with the work of Roscosmos, you will immediately fly away to minus. However, the truth tingles

Necessarily negative if this is a common whining.

I recall one of Murphy's laws:

If a product consists of a million parts, and the probability of failure is one in a million, then some part in the product no longer works.

[Prisoner]

"Minus" is not a bullet, Rogozin is not Afanasyev.

[slipped]

A malfunction in the valve was found in one rocket, but they change the entire released batch of valves, since they do not have time to figure it out on the spot before launching from Kuru. That is why the launch of the Messengers from the small spacecraft in Plesetsk was postponed until December 3rd.

And on the 25th, i.e. tomorrow, export of the Soyuz-2ST-A LV to the SC in the GKTs.

[Motorist]

Quote: slipped

A malfunction in the valve was found in one rocket, but the entire released batch of valves is changed

Slipped, and you do not know what kind of valve is it that needs to be changed completely due to a leak? After all, you can probably just change the gasket, the membrane, or the seat. Or screw in the goujon. I am interested [hopefully] as a specialist.

[slipped]

Quote: Motorist

but you do not know what kind of valve is it that needs to be changed completely due to a leak?

Nitrogen valve, defect in its control cavity. A trifle, not nice of course. Already replaced, I think, once they made a decision to export.

I think the RKs tell too much to journalists. And it is necessary, like Spacehu, to refer to precipitation for any transfer.

[Motorist]

Quote: slipped

Nitrogen valve, defect in its control cavity

Thanks. What is the specific defect? Couldn't it have been repaired on site? It probably only works for a couple of minutes - "eternal" reliability is not needed. Although, if time is in stock, then you can hedge yourself and send a new one halfway across the world ...

[slipped]

Quote: Motorist

Although, if you have time in stock, then you can play it safe and send a new one halfway across the world ...

It was easier and more reliable to replace, and then to understand.

[Kushka]

To my "Moskvich -2140" 25.10. was 35 years old.
(Full seniority for retirement is a joke).
The right axle shaft thundered - the tyutyu oil seal,
the oil from the gearbox washed the bearing and
he is also tyutyu. In the attic for 30 years lay
new axle shaft assembly, in oil (bought for the occasion
in a car shop 30 years ago - Soviet.
At that time they said that spare parts from the factory
parts with defects (with deviations,
impermissible during assembly or installation). And what you
think - there are 5 studs on the flange and two holes on
sweat for fixing the brake drum (many
drivers, having lost cogs from there, never put them on)
So they are made "by"! - that one thread, that the second,
when installing the drum on the studs, they look out by half!
Here the riddle opened, how the half-shaft got into parts.
Do not say, but marriage is our everything!

[Ensign19]

As the system becomes more complex, the risk of entropy always increases
As Comrade Stalin said: - "There is no god except Control, and Verification is an adept of it!" (In my opinion, a universal phrase, fits any )

[Sentinel-vs]

Who would want to work as a designer in a closed research institute or as a machine operator, welder at a defense plant? Now you can work as a trader with no education at all and get two or three times more, if you are not at all dumb and not. My comrade, a former classmate, finished his education at the Faculty of Mechanics and Engineering without a grade, got a job at a defense plant. I got a second tower already in my specialty, something on the topic of rocketry. Recently met, how are you, how is income? He says he gets about 60-70 thousand, works as a designer. Well, damn it ... For such important specialties, this is not the same salary at all. On the other hand, my sister, with an incomplete college degree, works as a sales manager for surveillance systems, one of the best managers in the company, it should be noted. The base has been developed in a couple of years. Now the salary does not exist below 100 thousand. He is looking for alternatives to some other company to leave, there are proposals, salaries are even higher. A good huckster is valuable now. But my classmate, where the hell will go from this defense industry with its two towers. So it will be until retirement to receive his salary, if the chief of the KB does not become one day. In addition, the state. secretly tied, about any foreign. travel has not even thought for 15 years.

[VORON538]

That is the problem, that nowadays the price of hucksters and managers
And an engineer, who needs him in Russia
And what kind of development can the traders-hucksters have? I bought it cheaper, pushed it more expensive, and sold illiquid assets, generally well done. Only in whose country will the traders wake up tomorrow? They themselves will not be sold on the sly?

[Pavel57]

Control only on a rocket carried out?

[Deniso]

Again worked "with a hangover"? Or was the "petaushnik" admitted to the assembly of the unit? Or is it the wrong grade of metal? Something has become a lot of marriage in the department of Mr. Rogozin. Isn't it time to resurrect Lavrenty Pavlovich? "Don't be dashing," as they say ...

[slipped]

Quote: denis obuckov

Isn't it time to resurrect Lavrenty Pavlovich? "Don't be dashing," as they say ...

Are you proposing to put a man with a dog and a machine gun next to the picker?

[saygon66]

- The valve should be gilded and inserted to the responsible person!

[svoit]

Quote: Sentinel-vs

about any foreign. travel has not even thought for 15 years.

So it seems like every 5 years you can think, more like and there are no restrictions

[Sentinel-vs]

If he quits, then probably in 5 years he will be able to think. And while it works, then no foreign trips. Well, I personally have not come across such a case, so I don't know for sure.

[Mikhail3]

Rogozin does not consider the news of the discovery of a faulty valve negative, in his opinion, the negative would have been at the launch of the rocket with a defect that was not detected during control, as a result of which "it would have returned to the ground with a heap of metal.

Actually, he's absolutely right. Let's hope the inspection system improves.

[iouris]

Someone from the factory will fly on an urgent business trip.

[Yarik]

Here it is not the valve that needs to be changed, but the entire system with Rogozin together, who brought our space to the state of jumping on a trampoline.

[Narak-zempo]

(with hope)
Ukrainian valve?
Or just a cursed place - the other day "Vega" fell. Well, there is definitely a Ukrainian engine.

[eklmn]

Meanwhile, SpaceX launched the first stage for the seventh time yesterday and successfully landed it for the seventh time. And the flight control center did not applaud - they got used to it ...

https://youtu.be/H4vcREtkvlw?t=22

[Vladimir61]

Rogozin also noted a sharp drop in the responsibility and quality of work of suppliers of parts for space technology.

Aha! And where is the responsibility of "acceptance" for the receipt and delivery of low-quality products to the assembly shop? And how did a rocket with a low-quality valve "crawl" out of the shop and immediately ended up in Africa? Shouldn't the final inspection be carried out, at the end of the assembly, at the manufacturer's plant? Questions should arise not only to suppliers, but also to the entire structure of Roscosmos and, first of all, to its head!

[slipped]

Quote: Vladimir61

And how did a rocket with a low-quality valve "crawl" out of the shop and immediately ended up in Africa?

Kuru is not Africa.

Quote: Vladimir61

Questions should arise not only to suppliers, but also to the entire structure of Roscosmos and, first of all, to its head!

The Soyuz-2ST-A rocket is flying strictly on schedule. The State Commission decided to take it to the launch site tomorrow.

[ficus2003]

Quote: Alexander Vorontsov

An enterprise like GEOFIZIKA-KOSMOS, which once developed and produces highly specialized devices for missiles, how should it earn money in your opinion?
To take something from them, they must have something to begin with, probably yes?
How should they make money? Vacuum cleaners? Or shopping carts?
The state gives them money. There is nothing to take from them.

Yes, I must earn money and enough because rare parts are expensive, especially when there is no competition.

[slipped]

The Guiana Space Center has begun transporting a space rocket to the launch site.

[AX]

And where was the quality control department ????