Military Review

Auschwitz trial: merciful German justice

119

Source: wikimedia.org


Moral values ​​of the Hitler soldier


In post-war Germany, former party functionaries of the Third Reich and high-ranking SS men were quite in demand. They occupied prominent places both in the political elite and in the military department.

For example, in the GDR, SS Unterscharführer Ernst Grossmann, who worked in the Sachsenhausen camp during the war, was elected a member of the central committee of the party in the ruling socialist unified party of Germany. Horst Dresler-Anders, who held a high position in the department of Goebbels, was listed in the party department of agitation and propaganda. And the SS Sturmführer Werner Gast worked in the leadership of the Union of Journalists of the GDR.

In Germany, despite the proclaimed denazification policy, a successful career awaited the lawyer Hans Globke, who was directly involved in the development of the notorious Nuremberg racial "laws". The former commander of the Nachtigall battalion, Theodor Oberländer, worked in the Federal Republic for ten years as Secretary of State in the Federal Chancellor's Office. The war criminal even managed to visit the ministerial chair of the department for the expelled affairs and retired in 1960 only after the court of the GDR sentenced him to death in absentia. He died peacefully at the age of 93 in the late 90s.

Further more. From 1959 to 1969, Heinrich Lübcke was the Federal President of the Federal Republic of Germany, who during the Third Reich was engaged in the planning and construction of concentration camps. If such seasoned Nazis sat at the top of the German political system, then what to say about middle-ranking officials, businessmen and employees. The share of former activists of the Third Reich in this stratum was off scale.

In the GDR, the Brown Book was published in 1965, which tells about 1800 high-ranking Nazis successfully working in the Federal Republic of Germany in the state apparatus, economy, justice, diplomatic service, education, science and, of course, in the armed forces. In the new German army - the Bundeswehr - at the Chancellor of Germany Konrad Adenauer, almost all the generals consisted of Wehrmacht natives. Here the situation was not so delicate, after all, the Wehrmacht (unlike the SS) was not recognized as a criminal organization, but this in no way justified the Hitlerite commanders. By the way, the general staff of the army of fascist Germany was nevertheless classified by the international tribunal as a criminal organization.

At one of the conferences, Adenauer was asked whether the formation of the new army would really be entrusted to the former Nazis. He said slightly lightly:

"I'm afraid that with eighteen-year-old generals, they won't let us into NATO."

And in 1952, the chancellor in the Bundestag said the following:

“In the face of this high gathering, I would like to declare on behalf of the federal government that we recognize all weapons of our people, who fought worthily under the sign of high soldier traditions on land, on water and in the air. We are convinced that the good reputation and great achievements of the German soldier live on in our people and will continue in the future, despite all the insults of the past. Our common task should be - and I am sure that we will solve it - to combine the moral values ​​of the German soldier with democracy. "

All of the above clearly illustrates the enviable position of the "heroes" of the war both in the FRG and in the pro-communist eastern neighbor. The society openly sympathized with the Nazis, to a certain extent yearned for the past and did not even think about any retribution for war criminals. In the best case, the Germans preferred to simply forget about the years of the NSDAP rule, or declare themselves innocent victims of the regime, shifting their responsibility onto Hitler and his henchmen. This was partly the result of ignorance of the consequences of the Fuhrer's misanthropic policies. For example, Auschwitz in Germany in the 50s and 60s was considered an ordinary labor camp.

Auschwitz trial: merciful German justice
Prosecutor Franz Bauer. Without this lawyer, the trial of the war criminals from Auschwitz would not have taken place. Now in Germany, Bauer is considered the main initiator of the confession of the sins of the Third Reich and the repentance of the Germans.

The Cold War gained momentum and the persecution of the Nazis gradually eased. So, if in 1950 there were investigations in 2495 cases, then in 1957 - only in 1835 episodes. The country has launched an extensive amnesty campaign for previously convicted Nazis. For this category of citizens, restrictions on admission to public service were removed.

The apotheosis of the unfolding events was the arrest in November 1961 in Munich of the Yugoslav patriot Lazo Vracaric, who was accused (attention!) Of partisan struggle against the Wehrmacht during World War II. And only the indignation of the countries of the socialist camp saved Vracharić from prison. It is not known where it is история started the post-war Germans, if the prosecutor Fritz Bauer had not appeared on the scene.

The Germans blame the Nazis


Justice has already been served. And it happened in 1946 in Nuremberg with the announcement of the sentence for 24 main Nazis. The trial of the Nazis took place. It was carried out by allies. And we must live on. The Germans had similar arguments when it came to the persecution of the surviving Nazis.

The first to break the German ideology of the 50s and 60s was the Attorney General of the Land of Hesse, Fritz Bauer, a Jew by nationality. The lawyer had personal scores with the Nazi death machine - he spent several months in a concentration camp and miraculously escaped persecution in Sweden. Bauer so distrusted the post-war German justice that he handed over Adolf Eichmann not to the authorities of his own country, but to the Mossad.

His distrust was justified - the intelligence of the Federal Republic of Germany knew about the Argentine refuge of the Nazi, but did not take any steps to capture. Apparently, there were sympathizers in the secret department of the previous regime. And it is quite likely that yesterday's colleagues of one of the organizers of the Holocaust. As a result, the Israelis kidnapped Eichmann and publicly executed him. Naturally, in Germany he would be sentenced to life in prison at best. And ten to fifteen years later, they were peacefully released into retirement.

Fritz Bauer's mood can be briefly described in the words from his interview with a Danish newspaper:

"The new Hitler in Germany would not have been rejected."

Since that time, the title of "Nazi hunter" has been assigned to the prosecutor.


Defendants during the Auschwitz trial. Source: welt.de

The formal beginning of the Auschwitz trial was the appeal of Adolf Regner, a former prisoner of Auschwitz, to the Stuttgart prosecutor's office with a request to detain Wilhelm Boger. This SS man was the head of the camp Gestapo and was particularly cruel to prisoners. Regner indicated where Boger lived. And in October 1958 he was arrested.

The words of the witness were confirmed by another "hunter for the Nazis", a former prisoner of the Hitler regime, Hermann Langbein. Thus began the slow process of investigating Boger's atrocities. But he did not promise to end in anything good - the public opinion of the Germans had already been poisoned. And the SS man was openly sympathetic. Moreover, the prosecutors of the prosecution could well be threatened with physical harm.


In the foreground is Joseph Kler, the orderly of Auschwitz. Responsible for tens of thousands of deaths in the camp - it was he who poured the Zyklon B capsules into the gas chambers. Source: DPA / Corbis / Scanpix

Here (just in time) Fritz Bauer gets the documents from Auschwitz, which mention the names of some prisoners. And, more importantly, there are 37 camp employees in the ranks of the SS. The search for criminals from this list begins throughout the country, as well as the collection of testimonies from former concentration camp prisoners.

Bauer organized regular newspaper, television and radio advertisements for witnesses. As a result, by February 1959, all materials on the Auschwitz case were combined into one main direction and transferred to Frankfurt am Main. Interestingly, Bauer himself refused to take a direct part in the process, delegating this to young lawyers Kegler, Wiese and Vogel. He retained the role of the gray cardinal, secretly managing the entire machine of retaliation.

On the one hand, he feared accusations of bias - after all, a Jew, and even a victim of the Nazis. On the other hand, fear for one's own life cannot be ruled out. In the late 50s, it was already dangerous in the FRG to threaten yesterday's Nazis with criminal prosecution.

A little help. On December 24, 1959, a synagogue and a monument to the victims of National Socialism were desecrated in Cologne. From 1959 to February 1960, German law enforcement agencies registered 833 such acts of vandalism. In Frankfurt itself at the Institute for Social Research, experts spoke openly about the "secondary wave of anti-Semitism" in Germany. Therefore, the fears of the Jewish prosecutor who initiated the process against the Nazis were well founded.




The top photo shows Robert Mulka, the highest-ranking SS man on Bauer's list. At the bottom - Auschwitz pharmacist Victor Kapesius. Source: en.wikipedia.org

The history of the Auschwitz Process goes back more than four years, during which about 1500 witnesses were interviewed and 599 Nazis who served in the world's most famous concentration camp were identified.

Investigators collected 51 volumes of evidence and attracted only 22 SS men to the dock. The lists included the adjutant of the commandant of Auschwitz, Robert Mulka, the SS report-fuehrer Oswald Kaduk, the chief pharmacist of the concentration camp, Victor Capesius, and many more sadists of lower rank. These were quite respectable and respected burghers, whose Nazi past outwardly did not say anything. Although Capesius alone killed several thousand people with phenol and Cyclone B.

During the trial, none of the captured SS men believed in the conviction at the end of the trial. Most of the defendants were not even arrested during the trial and continued to live full lives. And Mulke, as a prominent businessman, even managed to visit Hamburg between meetings in VIP train cars.

The ending should ...
Author:
119 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. Lech from Android.
    Lech from Android. 28 November 2020 04: 59
    +4
    Thanks Eugene for the article hi ... much of what you described, I met in the media earlier, I am very worried about the change in the situation in Europe and in particular in Germany ... I mean the statement of the German Defense Minister Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer on the dialogue with Russia from a position of strength. .. in fact, she announced the beginning of a new campaign of the Third Reich (in the modern sense) to the East ... after her words, concrete actions will begin.
    A lot of Nazi criminals in Germany went unpunished and throughout Europe too.
    I read today about the Danish Nazis in the Forest Camp ... these scoundrels also engaged in the mass murder of people in Belarus ... many of them were not punished.
    Now Europe is once again shaping cannon fodder by brainwashing its inhabitants for a new march to the east.

    (I'm not surprised now why the Danes with sadistic pleasure publicly kill animals in front of children).
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 28 November 2020 05: 11
      +1
      The Germans can only say that the Bundeswehr today is an incapable organization, castrated in favor of the social sector. Of the security forces in Germany, only the police units are effective and rather aggressive. The rest - well, nothing at all.
      1. Lech from Android.
        Lech from Android. 28 November 2020 05: 25
        0
        The Germans can only say that the Bundeswehr today is an incapacitated organization, castrated in favor of the social sector.

        The Germans can say whatever they want ... until they have a new Fuhrer ... which prevents the Americans from doing this by replacing Merkel with a much more radical personality ... for the meat to be tastier it must be softened, which is what Merkel is doing now by decomposing German burghers in the Afro-Arab-LGBT community ... depriving it of any landmarks.
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 28 November 2020 05: 54
          +2
          That's right, that such a society will have to dislike the Fuhrer. laughing
          1. Lech from Android.
            Lech from Android. 28 November 2020 07: 06
            0
            That's right, that such a society will have to dislike the Fuhrer.

            What can a perfumed fagot and a lesbian do against organized stormtroopers-Nazis? ... it's up to little ... a talented leader must appear.
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 28 November 2020 07: 51
              +4
              Quote: Lech from Android.
              That's right, that such a society will have to dislike the Fuhrer.

              What can a perfumed fagot and a lesbian do against organized stormtroopers-Nazis? ... it's up to little ... a talented leader must appear.

              Seduce the nasty naughty
        2. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 28 November 2020 12: 26
          +3
          Somehow, Alexey, everything mixed up in a heap ...
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 28 November 2020 15: 16
            +2
            "Horses-people mingled in a heap ..." (almost S.)

            There would be a couple of guns ... soldier
        3. Paul Siebert
          Paul Siebert 30 November 2020 02: 33
          0
          Quote: Lech from Android.
          The Germans can only say that the Bundeswehr today is an incapacitated organization, castrated in favor of the social sector.

          The Germans can say whatever they want ... until they have a new Fuhrer ... which prevents the Americans from doing this by replacing Merkel with a much more radical personality ... for the meat to be tastier it must be softened, which is what Merkel is doing now by decomposing German burghers in the Afro-Arab-LGBT community ... depriving it of any landmarks.

          It's not even sad that tens of thousands of German criminals found a place in the West after the war ...
          It is alarming that the current financial burghers who consider themselves the FRG defense ministers allow themselves to urge the West to talk to Russia "from a position of strength ..."
          It looks like the lessons of Nuremberg do not teach anything ...
          There is no need to tug on a dormant tiger by the mustache.
          Otherwise he will wake up.
          And put the fintiflyushek "in position ..." yes
      2. Fitter65
        Fitter65 28 November 2020 14: 03
        +3
        Quote: Krasnodar
        The Germans can only speak - the Bundeswehr today is an incapacitated organization,

        But there is no need to hope for the enemy's illness, the doctor is always with him ...
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 28 November 2020 17: 45
          -1
          I agree. He wrote about the status quo, which does not negate the maintenance of one's own combat readiness. There are Turks, Amers, etc.
      3. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 28 November 2020 15: 29
        0
        Of the siloviki in Germany, only the police units are effective and rather aggressive.

        Something they are too gentle with "refugees". No effect or aggression is visible.
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 28 November 2020 17: 45
          -1
          Quote: Aviator_
          Of the siloviki in Germany, only the police units are effective and rather aggressive.

          Something they are too gentle with "refugees". No effect or aggression is visible.

          It depends on where. Everything is tough in Bavaria, and not only with refugees
      4. Victor Tsenin
        Victor Tsenin 29 November 2020 21: 37
        +1
        You should not rely on this, if you wish and the means, the power can be quickly restored.
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 29 November 2020 22: 28
          0
          Quote: Victor Tsenin
          You should not rely on this, if you wish and the means, the power can be quickly restored.

          Can. A generation later. Which will have to be brought up differently.
          1. Victor Tsenin
            Victor Tsenin 29 November 2020 22: 43
            +1
            Here the key is assumption and probability. Today, the notorious Maltsev outlined the situation at the end of the 75th anniversary of the trial, if interested, here https://vz.ru/opinions/2020/11/27/1072186.html
    2. Moskovit
      Moskovit 28 November 2020 09: 15
      +2
      You're pushing too much). Another talking female head as German Defense Minister is not accidental. The military acts there as a janitor - you are service personnel, no influence on politics. They just don't have a leader. For any nationalistic views, immediate dismissal. Remember how the super-Nazi organization was exposed there in the special forces. They kind of planned, planned, planned. The cult of strength. Magazines. Runes
      But people eventually sat down, many were fired, the special forces will constantly rotate, people from the outside will be taken, in general, this scared the German leadership so much that now it is possible to put an end to the combat effectiveness of the special forces.
      And German society will not accept Nazism. They are dissatisfied with migrants there, but no one dreams of drang nakh osten. People just want to live well. Consumer Society).
    3. Kronos
      Kronos 28 November 2020 13: 29
      +1
      Why would they go? They buy everything they want in Russia.
  2. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 28 November 2020 07: 37
    +2
    Thank you author. Interesting. It is interesting to read such an article.
  3. parusnik
    parusnik 28 November 2020 07: 41
    +1
    Nazism has taken root in the world, it creeps out of all the cracks and the process goes on more and more intensively. Capitalism again needs a "new order", in the form of "renewed" Nazism.
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 28 November 2020 07: 51
      -2
      Nazism is national - SOCIALISM)). Capitalism has nothing to do with it
      1. Lech from Android.
        Lech from Android. 28 November 2020 08: 14
        +2
        Nazism is national - SOCIALISM)). Capitalism has nothing to do with it
        And how and ... Nazism originated on the basis of capitalism and was fueled by corporations specifically ... it was with the help of their money that Hitler came to power.
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 28 November 2020 08: 36
          -1
          ??? The same can be said about any political movement. The capitalists Morozovs sponsored revolutionaries, the Rothschilds of socialists - Zionists, etc.
          1. mat-vey
            mat-vey 28 November 2020 09: 01
            +2
            Quote: Krasnodar
            ??? The same can be said about any political movement. The capitalists Morozovs sponsored revolutionaries, the Rothschilds of socialists - Zionists, etc.

            Well, about Nazism, we can say that their nationalism is not "individual", but social. While maintaining the essence of capitalism - private ownership of the means of production and the main criterion for making economic decisions is the desire to increase capital, to make a profit.
            Nazism (fascism) is a kind of capitalism with a dictatorial form of government.
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 28 November 2020 17: 58
              0
              [quote = mat-vey] [quote = Krasnodar]
              Well, about Nazism, we can say that their nationalism is not "individual", but social. While maintaining the essence of capitalism - private ownership of the means of production and the main criterion for making economic decisions is the desire to increase capital, to make a profit.
              Nazism (fascism) is a kind of capitalism under a dictatorial form of government. [/ Quote]
              No way. The Nazis put the interests of the nation above the interests of the state, the interests of the state above the interests of the working people, the interests of the working people (the correct nation, race) above the interests of capital
              1. mat-vey
                mat-vey 28 November 2020 18: 13
                0
                Quote: Krasnodar
                No way. The Nazis put the interests of the nation above the interests of the state, the interests of the state above the interests of the working people, the interests of the working people (the correct nation, race) above the interests of capital

                These are all words. This is fascism. How else can the whole country go and conquer other countries?
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 28 November 2020 18: 17
                  0
                  No. Fascism is the interests of the state always above the interests of the nation, etc. Moreover, the classical version does not provide for national superiority.
                  1. mat-vey
                    mat-vey 5 December 2020 09: 00
                    0
                    Quote: Krasnodar
                    Fascism is the interests of the state always above the interests of the nation, etc.

                    Well, of course, the state is not a group of specific people seeking profit from this "unity".
      2. parusnik
        parusnik 28 November 2020 08: 17
        +2
        Naturally, there are two big differences ... laughing Hitler won fair democratic elections, thanks to party contributions from workers and peasants and the petty bourgeoisie .. laughing He eliminated private ownership of the means of production and sprinkled it with nationalism. He built an ideal socialist society. laughing He built socialism according to Kautsky laughing
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 28 November 2020 08: 40
          +1
          Well, he raised the social system for the right, from a racial point of view, the Germans, first at the expense of the grandmothers expropriated from the Jews, then the nishtyaks received from the absorption of Czechoslovakia and Austria, then the conquests in Western Europe. And then I believed in myself and stopped
          1. mat-vey
            mat-vey 28 November 2020 08: 45
            +1
            Quote: Krasnodar
            Well, he raised the social system for the right, from a racial point of view, the Germans, first at the expense of the attendants ...

            Didn't Jung and Dawes initially give the money?
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 28 November 2020 08: 46
              +1
              Croup with the owners of Lufthansa
              1. mat-vey
                mat-vey 28 November 2020 08: 49
                +2
                Quote: Krasnodar
                Croup with the owners of Lufthansa

                After all the payments under the Versailles Peace Treaty, did they have the funds for this?
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 28 November 2020 09: 40
                  0
                  They just stayed with them))
                  1. mat-vey
                    mat-vey 28 November 2020 09: 59
                    +4
                    Well, yes, the industrial areas with enterprises were taken away, but they did not touch the money.
                    1. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar 28 November 2020 14: 09
                      +1
                      Quote: mat-vey
                      Well, yes, the industrial areas with enterprises were taken away, but they did not touch the money.

                      Excerpts from the Adolf Hitler Memorandum of Aug-Sept. 1936 (the so-called "Memorandum on the Four Year Plan") more than eloquently shows the attitude of the Hitlerite regime to the inviolability of private property and to the market economy in general:
                      “There is no point in debating whether we should wait a little longer ... it is not the task of the government to puzzle over production methods ... Either today we have a private industry, and in this case, it is she who should think about production methods, or we believe that it is the government's job to determine the means of production, and in this case we have no need for private property.
                      The job of the Ministry of Economy is simply to set goals for the national economy, and private industry must pursue them. German industry is either aware of new economic goals, or will reveal its inability to survive in the modern era, when the Soviet state is adopting gigantic plans. But in this case, it will not be Germany that will go to the bottom, but in the extreme case, several industrialists ”(p. 296).
                      1. mat-vey
                        mat-vey 28 November 2020 14: 28
                        +2
                        So what? An ordinary dictator in the process of preparing for a war for world domination.
                      2. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 28 November 2020 15: 52
                        0
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        So what? An ordinary dictator in the process of preparing for a war for world domination.

                        No one tore away factories from industrialists
                      3. mat-vey
                        mat-vey 28 November 2020 16: 04
                        +3
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        No one tore away factories from industrialists

                        Likewise, no one limited the ability to appropriate surplus value.
                      4. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 28 November 2020 18: 00
                        -1
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        No one tore away factories from industrialists

                        Likewise, no one limited the ability to appropriate surplus value.

                        In the interests of the Reich, they could restrict. They could subsidize. It was different.
    2. parusnik
      parusnik 28 November 2020 11: 48
      +3
      Now what? Socialism for immigrants, tolerance, what kind of guys we accepted you and do not divide by race, but private property remains for the means of production, plus a social partnership program for workers, employees, you are good, but you do not go on strike. Hitler's Labor Front was engaged in this .But capital needs for the existing situation, a tougher power, but without racial prejudices, that would preserve capital and the "new order" was. Most trade unions in the world do not defend workers' rights, but are intermediaries in the program of social partnership.
  4. mat-vey
    mat-vey 28 November 2020 08: 42
    +7
    Quote: parusnik
    Abolished private ownership of the means of production

    The Krupps and Siemens, in a single socialist outburst, stood at the machines along with their hired workers. Bankers opened their banks and made the entire German people co-owners, and sorry not all - only true Aryans.))
    1. parusnik
      parusnik 28 November 2020 11: 50
      0
      Probably it was, according to our opponent. smile
      1. mat-vey
        mat-vey 28 November 2020 11: 51
        +1
        Quote: parusnik
        according to our opponent

        But no - yours).
        "Nazism is national - SOCIALISM)). Capitalism has nothing to do with it"
  5. Lech from Android.
    Lech from Android. 28 November 2020 08: 49
    0
    Hitler won fair democratic elections


    Yes, yes ... he set fire to the Reichstag and won ... and at the same time the communists blamed this sin ... a talented boy with a mustache.
    1. parusnik
      parusnik 28 November 2020 11: 54
      +3
      Yes, like a real "socialist". smile And then, the "socialist" Germans fought against the "plague" of the 20th century, the USSR. Apparently, they decided to put it on the right path. smile They decided to teach "socialism" like the rest of the European countries. smile
      1. mat-vey
        mat-vey 28 November 2020 12: 03
        +4
        Quote: parusnik
        Yes, like a real "socialist".

        yes, lately, I have a feeling that it is difficult for people who do not see the difference between "social" and "sanitary" distances to understand that "socialism" is primarily social. And what kind of social it is depends on what is in front of this word. the defining one was "Soviet" ..
        1. Was mammoth
          Was mammoth 28 November 2020 13: 47
          +2
          Quote: mat-vey
          yes, lately I have a feeling that it is difficult for people who do not see the difference between "social" and "sanitary" distances to understand that "socialism" is, first of all, social.

          Recently, Someone Soloviev, one might say, a staff agitator (by the way, a former member of the CPSU) spoke up the question of what is in Sweden and similar countries - capitalism or socialism. wink
          Replacing the concept of socialist with social has become very "fashionable" today.
          1. mat-vey
            mat-vey 28 November 2020 13: 51
            +2
            Quote: There was a mammoth
            Replacing the concept of socialist with social has become very "fashionable" now

            It was there before, but now you understand some kind of mainstream ...
        2. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 28 November 2020 14: 12
          0
          Quote: mat-vey
          Quote: parusnik
          Yes, like a real "socialist".

          yes, lately, I have a feeling that it is difficult for people who do not see the difference between "social" and "sanitary" distances to understand that "socialism" is primarily social. And what kind of social it is depends on what is in front of this word. the defining one was "Soviet" ..

          And at the heart of Soviet ideology was the class struggle, at the basis of the Nazi was the racial struggle)).
          1. mat-vey
            mat-vey 28 November 2020 14: 26
            +2
            Quote: Krasnodar
            And at the heart of Soviet ideology was the class struggle, at the basis of the Nazi was the racial struggle)).

            The basis of Soviet ideology was the equality of people, regardless of place of birth, nationality and origin. And the Germans have an ordinary old tale about the superiority of some over others, in this case by race, and earlier it happened by faith.
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 28 November 2020 15: 54
              0
              Everything is correct, but ..- the class struggle among the ideologists of the Soviet Union and the racial struggle among the ideologists of Nazism.
              1. mat-vey
                mat-vey 28 November 2020 16: 07
                +1
                These are completely different and sometimes completely antagonistic things.
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 28 November 2020 18: 02
                  -1
                  Quote: mat-vey
                  These are completely different and sometimes completely antagonistic things.

                  Exactly
            2. Avior
              Avior 29 November 2020 08: 15
              0
              All people are equal, but some are more equal.
              Therefore, the dictatorship of the proletariat, and the peasants take away their passports and the right to move. smile
              The Germans have social Darwinism at their core, the struggle of peoples for survival, as in nature.
              Therefore, the most advanced Ras Aryans have an advantage, headed by the Nordic.
              From this point of view, by the way, the Germans are not the most racially perfect nation - the Nordic Norwegians were even higher. smile
              1. mat-vey
                mat-vey 5 December 2020 09: 02
                0
                Quote: Avior
                and take away the passports of the peasants

                How can you select something that is not there?
  6. Kwas
    Kwas 28 November 2020 19: 31
    +1
    Quote: parusnik
    Abolished private ownership of the means of production

    ??? Shit! Nationalized Krupp, Zeiss, Porsche, MAN, Thyssen, Opel, ... or not?
  • Was mammoth
    Was mammoth 28 November 2020 13: 38
    +1
    Quote: Krasnodar
    Nazism is national - SOCIALISM)). Capitalism has nothing to do with it

    Do not stop there. The logical chain must be continued. wink
    Socialism is communism. Hence Hitler was building communism. World War II came about because of a disagreement between Hitler and Stalin over how to build communism. Here's the real reason for the war! wink
    1. mat-vey
      mat-vey 28 November 2020 13: 46
      +1
      And you have a fresh look)))
      1. Was mammoth
        Was mammoth 28 November 2020 13: 48
        0
        Quote: mat-vey
        And you have a fresh look)))

        Plagiarism, however! wink
        1. mat-vey
          mat-vey 28 November 2020 13: 53
          +1
          Quote: Was Mammoth
          Quote: mat-vey
          And you have a fresh look)))

          Plagiarism, however! wink

          Well, I can't keep up with modern myth-making ...
          Can Svanidze start watching and listening?
          1. Was mammoth
            Was mammoth 28 November 2020 13: 55
            +3
            Quote: mat-vey
            Can Svanidze start watching and listening?

            Immediately not. May be harmful to mental health problems.
            Start with Soloviev and the historical and philosophical works of Shpakovsky. wink
            1. mat-vey
              mat-vey 28 November 2020 13: 56
              +2
              Quote: There was a mammoth
              Start with Soloviev and the historical and philosophical works of Shpakovsky.

              And I thought you were a kind person ..)))))
              1. Was mammoth
                Was mammoth 28 November 2020 13: 59
                +2
                Sure! They say that Indian rajas took a little poison from infancy. A large dose cannot be taken at once. wink
                1. mat-vey
                  mat-vey 28 November 2020 14: 03
                  0
                  And if a banal allergy? You can put the liver on histamines. Especially since I met Kozma Prutkov early.
                  1. Was mammoth
                    Was mammoth 28 November 2020 14: 32
                    0
                    Quote: mat-vey
                    And if a banal allergy? You can put the liver on histamines. Especially since I met Kozma Prutkov early.

                    Anti-Sovietism is now inevitable as a coronavirus.
                    "Love your neighbor, but don't be deceived by him!" K. Prutkov. wink
                  2. mat-vey
                    mat-vey 28 November 2020 14: 40
                    +2
                    First of all - "Question everything" ... Well, and "Nobody will embrace the immense."
                    Quote: There was a mammoth
                    Anti-Sovietism is now inevitable as a coronavirus.

                    And I will repeat myself - how can we defend privatized assets without this ... Well, it allows partners to reconsider a lot - from borders to the length of the working week.
                  3. Motorist
                    Motorist 29 November 2020 23: 45
                    0
                    Quote: mat-vey
                    First of all - "Question everything" ... Well, and "Nobody will embrace the immense."

                    And I like this:

                    If you are asked what is more important: the sun or a month, answer - a month. Because the sun shines during the day, when it is already light, and the month is at night.

                    And the continuation is even more:

                    On the other hand, the sun shines and warms, and the month only shines, and even then only on a moonlit night.
  • Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 28 November 2020 14: 28
    +1
    I already wrote above - the Soviet ideology (communist) implied a class struggle. National Socialist is a racial struggle. That is, being from a noble family, you could very well become a proletarian, a red commander or a Soviet scientist and live quite decently by the standards of society. Under national socialism, if you come from a Slavic or Jewish family - a bunch of infringements in your rights compared to the "title", to begin with.
    1. mat-vey
      mat-vey 28 November 2020 14: 30
      +2
      In general, there is no talk of real social equality of people.
      1. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 28 November 2020 15: 56
        +1
        Quote: mat-vey
        In general, there is no talk of real social equality of people.

        Well of course not.
        1. mat-vey
          mat-vey 28 November 2020 16: 05
          +2
          Quote: Krasnodar
          Quote: mat-vey
          In general, there is no talk of real social equality of people.

          Well of course not.

          Well, then socialism is not Marxist .. but only disguise and play with similar words.
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 28 November 2020 16: 52
            0
            Quote: mat-vey
            Quote: Krasnodar
            Quote: mat-vey
            In general, there is no talk of real social equality of people.

            Well of course not.

            Well, then socialism is not Marxist .. but only disguise and play with similar words.

            Naturally not Marxist laughing Within the framework of a racial struggle - what is Marx?
            1. mat-vey
              mat-vey 28 November 2020 16: 55
              0
              As what - capital, how it received surplus value by exploiting the proletariat, and continued to receive.
              1. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 28 November 2020 17: 18
                0
                Read about the organization of work and the social conditions of workers in the Third Reich. hi
                1. mat-vey
                  mat-vey 28 November 2020 17: 22
                  +1
                  Quote: Krasnodar
                  Read about the organization of work and the social conditions of workers in the Third Reich. hi

                  Already .. maybe not so much ...
    2. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine 28 November 2020 14: 38
      -6
      Quote: Krasnodar
      That is, being from a noble family, you could very well become a proletarian, a red commander, or a Soviet scientist and live a decent life for yourself

      Until they shoot. Is it serious at all?
      Quote: Krasnodar
      scientists and live quite decently by the standards of society. Under national socialism, if you come from a Slavic or Jewish family - a lot of infringements in your rights

      I would like to hear from Gruppenfuehrer Shkuro Andrey Grigorievich on this issue.

      Your comparison is, to put it mildly, strange. Who killed more of their citizens in peacetime, nationalists or internationalists?
      1. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 28 November 2020 16: 03
        +1
        Quote: Cherry Nine


        Your comparison is, to put it mildly, strange. Who killed more of their citizens in peacetime, nationalists or internationalists?


        I'm talking about a net ideological base. It is clear that during the construction of Soviet society there were excesses, and when the Nazis became necessary, they came up with the necessary "race" of Cossacks belonging to the "Aryans" hi
        1. mat-vey
          mat-vey 28 November 2020 16: 10
          +1
          Quote: Krasnodar
          came up with the necessary "race" of Cossacks

          This "race" is still considered necessary by some.
          Quote: Krasnodar
          It is clear that there were excesses in the construction of Soviet society

          Well duck - living people, especially "burdened by the past.
        2. Cherry Nine
          Cherry Nine 28 November 2020 16: 33
          -2
          Quote: Krasnodar
          I'm talking about the ideological base net

          The net ideological base was very flexible.

          The claim is that your wording
          Quote: Krasnodar
          coming from a noble family, you could very well become a proletarian, a red commander or a Soviet scientist and live quite decently by the standards of society. Under national socialism, if you come from a Slavic or Jewish family - a bunch of infringements of rights compared to the "title", for a start

          allows you to understand that the number or percentage of citizens of the USSR, for one reason or another, unsuccessfully born, exceeds the number or percentage of Reich citizens with similar problems. This position can be accepted as regards anti-Semitism, but it is difficult to accept as universal.

          I also have to remind you that the enemies of the Soviet regime were individual nationalities as a whole, according to the principle of collective guilt.
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 28 November 2020 17: 24
            -1
            Exceeds. But the children of the nobility could become (and became, and quite massively in percentage terms) equal members of society, while among the Jews in Nazi Germany there were only a few of them.
            1. polar fox
              polar fox 29 November 2020 08: 44
              0
              Quote: Krasnodar
              But children of nobility could become

              I confirm ... my great-uncle became an officer in the spacecraft ... in WWII he died in the Kuban.
    3. Was mammoth
      Was mammoth 28 November 2020 14: 40
      +2
      Quote: Krasnodar
      Under national socialism ...

      "Look at the root!" K. Prutkov.
      Try to define the meanings of the words social and communist.
      You can read a lot on the fence too. Because of this, it does not cease to be a fence.
      1. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 28 November 2020 16: 11
        +1
        Quote: Was Mammoth
        Quote: Krasnodar
        Under national socialism ...

        "Look at the root!" K. Prutkov.
        Try to define the meanings of the words social and communist.
        You can read a lot on the fence too. Because of this, it does not cease to be a fence.

        Communism - public ownership of the means of production + from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs
        Social? What do you mean?
        Socialism? public ownership of the means of production + from each according to his ability, to each according to his labor.
        1. Was mammoth
          Was mammoth 28 November 2020 20: 46
          0
          It's good that we remembered these definitions! True, with your "modernization".
          Now, many adults would not hurt to comprehend them.
          Quote: Krasnodar
          Social? What do you mean?

          Don't seem dumber and less educated than you are.
          Social is an adjective describing social relations. Even with a primitive system. wink
          For example, "pension reform" - social project. True, with a minus sign.
    4. The comment was deleted.
  • Catfish
    Catfish 28 November 2020 14: 52
    +1
    Did you mean something like that? good
    1. Was mammoth
      Was mammoth 28 November 2020 15: 08
      +3
      Quote: Sea Cat
      Did you mean something like that?

      Nope! Neither, me! I just developed the idea of ​​Krasnodar. To the point of absurdity. wink
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 28 November 2020 15: 17
        +2
        It's still very funny. laughing
      2. mat-vey
        mat-vey 28 November 2020 15: 20
        0
        Quote: There was a mammoth
        Nope! Neither, me! I just developed the idea of ​​Krasnodar. To the point of absurdity.

        Come on, they just leaned out the Overton window more.
    2. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 28 November 2020 16: 12
      +2
      Quote: Sea Cat
      Did you mean something like that? good

      Greetings, Constantine! hi In 1939 - certainly. Tuches that Hitler quickly bent France
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 28 November 2020 16: 32
        +1
        Hi Albert! hi
        Well, what can I say ...
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 28 November 2020 18: 05
          0
          The more nakes, the thicker the tuhes))
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 28 November 2020 18: 11
            +1
            The law of nature, and someone here talks about "French rolls".
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 28 November 2020 18: 14
              0
              Oh, where are so many of them, Konstantin? "Whirlwind hostile" ... laughing
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 28 November 2020 18: 19
                +2
                So after all, we have a problem not only with the roads, how many garbage dumps have not yet been eliminated, but there are enough garbage dumps. Trouble ... laughing
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 28 November 2020 20: 39
                  +1
                  And new ones arise ... periodically laughing
  • Cherry Nine
    Cherry Nine 28 November 2020 14: 03
    +2
    Thanks for the article, didn't know about it. He believed that the leftward movement of the FRG began under Brandt (a politician who received the Nobel Peace Prize cannot but be a traitor to his country and his people). It turns out that already under the late Adenauer, open enemies of Germany ruled here and there. It is sad.
  • iouris
    iouris 28 November 2020 15: 35
    0
    It seems that very soon the EU will close this page of history. And Treptower Park too. The "Russians" did everything for this. And you have to answer for this.
  • Unknown
    Unknown 28 November 2020 16: 04
    +4
    He seems to be writing correctly, but with such an anti-Soviet flavor ..... For example, in the GDR, in the ruling socialist unified party of Germany, SS Unterscharfuehrer Ernst Grossmann, who worked in the Sachsenhausen camp during the war, was elected a member of the party's central committee. Horst Dresler-Anders, who held a high position in the department of Goebbels, was listed in the party department of agitation and propaganda. And the SS Sturmführer Werner Gast worked in the leadership of the Union of Journalists of the GDR. ... Thus, saying that the Nazis and the Communists are of the same fruit, since they were in high positions in the GDR, singing along with politicians who equate Nazism and Communism. But this is an incorrect statement. For example, the first character is Ernst Grossman. A Sudanese German, was in the party of K. Henlein, then in the SS, first in the rank of Rothenführer, corporal in the Wehrmacht, as a camp guard he rose to the rank of Unterscharführer, Feldwebel in the army. echelon, and not even the middle, but the youngest. This does not relieve him of responsibility, he is a performer. But further more interesting. From Sachsenhausen, that he was entering the Allied zone, he seemed in the Soviet, and immediately went to the right place, to Siberia, and was not put up against the wall, like an SS man and even less a camp guard, in contrast to the stories about, executions of security officers ,,. There he was an activist and was released to Germany at the end of either 48 or 49 years. But ours checked him, after all an SS man, in the camp. Nothing of the kind was found, and in the GDR. What guided our bodies, we do not know, maybe we believed in the truth that they had re-educated, now we cannot explain. He is in the GDR. In the 50s, there were two parties in the GDR, the SPD and the KKE, and he joined the SPD. Then these two parties were united, and became the SED. So he got into the party. What was the personnel policy in the GDR at that time, there is also no complete information, after all, it was post-war time, a lot of confusion, he could have climbed higher. But as soon as they began to dig deeper, they kicked out from everywhere. Apparently he did not participate in the mass executions, all the same, those few prisoners of Sachsenhausen who survived did not show him.
    war criminals immediately vmn. Like this character, Josef Blesch. There was such a time after the war, they did not find everyone at once, even with us, but they did it for a long time, but if they found it, and proved it, so to speak, according to the merits of the VMN, unlike the FRG.
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 28 November 2020 18: 09
      0
      In the GDR, a former SS officer could only become a “shift leader” at a factory by the 60s.
      1. Doliva63
        Doliva63 28 November 2020 18: 58
        +1
        Quote: Krasnodar
        In the GDR, a former SS officer could only become a “shift leader” at a factory by the 60s.

        An SS officer in the GDR could not become anyone. Unterscharführer probably could. In the GDR they were somehow very kind to the Wehrmacht, but the SS, to put it mildly, did not like it. I remember in the 89th or 90th posters across the road: "Generals Vemakhta live in our city!" But I haven't seen a single SS poster.
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 28 November 2020 19: 09
          -2
          My uncle also served there, lived with his family for several years, he told me. As for the SS officer (not a high-ranking one) - the authorities knew about it, but the Nazis themselves did not advertise it, they carefully concealed it. Conditionally "leading" places they began to occupy by the 60th. Up to a certain, not high level. A member of the NSDAP during the war by the 60s could become a shop manager or a foreman.
          1. Doliva63
            Doliva63 29 November 2020 18: 58
            +1
            Quote: Krasnodar
            My uncle also served there, lived with his family for several years, he told me. As for the SS officer (not a high-ranking one) - the authorities knew about it, but the Nazis themselves did not advertise it, they carefully concealed it. Conditionally "leading" places they began to occupy by the 60th. Up to a certain, not high level. A member of the NSDAP during the war by the 60s could become a shop manager or a foreman.

            You cannot imagine the scope of the "snitching" in the GDR - for that very reason, it was almost impossible to hide membership in the NSDAP. After that - no career at least. And I will never believe that the MGB tolerated the Nazis on its territory.
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 29 November 2020 19: 04
              0
              I know about snitching, when I lived in Bavaria, Kazakh Germans told me about DDR-men. You drink with them at the same table, then one of the drinking companions whispers what his friend, with whom he came, said about you laughing
              Skipped - depending on n / a and the importance of production.
              1. Doliva63
                Doliva63 29 November 2020 20: 27
                +1
                Quote: Krasnodar
                Kazakh Germans told me about DDRs.


                At school, I remember, they chanted: Unzere haimat ist de Deutsche Democratische republiki. What are Kazakh Germans to us? laughing The GDR was a small homeland for me.
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 29 November 2020 20: 32
                  +1
                  Are your parents military?
                  1. Doliva63
                    Doliva63 29 November 2020 20: 39
                    +1
                    Quote: Krasnodar
                    Are your parents military?

                    With suspicion in his voice: Is it noticeable? laughing
                    1. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar 29 November 2020 20: 43
                      +1
                      No way! soldier laughing My Uncle served as a military pilot there)).
                      1. Doliva63
                        Doliva63 29 November 2020 21: 10
                        +1
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        No way! soldier laughing My Uncle served as a military pilot there)).

                        Uncle - salute! soldier I have never met such badass and combat-ready pilots as in the GSVG, for which I respect them and respect! drinks When they returned to the Union, there was a line behind them. The pilots of the SGV were a little lower in rank, and then the TsGV and YUGV were in third place. Now SO MUCH and SO MUCH do not fly anywhere at all, how many and how did they fly in the GSVG. I remember that in 3 or 81, there was an ice drift in Arkhangelsk - just about the bridge in the city center will blow! A couple flew in, laid 82 bombs as surgeons - and the bridge was intact, and a crowd of idiots who came to see it too. GSVGshniki, however. drinks
                      2. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 29 November 2020 21: 21
                        +1
                        Not a fig ... And this is in the early 80s ??
                        My uncle was an interceptor. drinks
                      3. Doliva63
                        Doliva63 29 November 2020 21: 38
                        +1
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        Not a fig ... And this is in the early 80s ??
                        My uncle was an interceptor. drinks

                        What's wrong with the early 80s? The collapse in the army began only from the middle, as I managed to notice. And the interceptors in the Group plowed desperately. Have you heard the song: One huge sky for two? Just about them. There was an obelisk in our town. I remember. I'm proud of the guys. And they fell just into our lake, but on foreign territory, in Bizonia.
                      4. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 29 November 2020 21: 50
                        +1
                        Then there was no accurate ammunition. Uncle, after being transferred to the Union, was given the political officer of the regiment.
                      5. Doliva63
                        Doliva63 30 November 2020 18: 13
                        +1
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        Then there was no accurate ammunition. Uncle, after being transferred to the Union, was given the political officer of the regiment.

                        A flying political officer is, it seems, and growth for the future, but also a hefty ambush - both the program must be carried out, and the personnel must be responsible. A very troublesome position. Not every pilot could pull.
                        I also happened to serve in the air regiment. The zampolit of the regiment was such a gifted person that when the commander was transferred to Syria, he took his place - a rare case.
                      6. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 30 November 2020 21: 16
                        +1
                        Uncle fired from his post when his subordinate hijacked a plane to Turkey. And I got a stop career because of this - - - - "pilot".

                      7. Doliva63
                        Doliva63 1 December 2020 13: 46
                        +1
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        Uncle fired from his post when his subordinate hijacked a plane to Turkey. And I got a stop career because of this - - - - "pilot".

                        Yes, this is "flying" forever, alas. But it also happened the other way around: once an Iranian pilot flew over to us and asked for political asylum. They poured a little kerosene on him and kicked him back out. There was anything in the army.
                      8. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 1 December 2020 14: 34
                        +1
                        Oh you ... didn’t want to escalate
                      9. Doliva63
                        Doliva63 1 December 2020 17: 50
                        +1
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        Oh you ... didn’t want to escalate

                        I don’t know such details. Maybe so.
  • phair
    phair 30 November 2020 13: 21
    +1
    Nothing bad. German friend 2 pieces ...
  • Justme
    Justme 16 January 2021 17: 53
    0
    I am wildly sorry for a little question aside, but one of my acquaintances - namely, Larru Romanoff is now writing a new version of the article -
    Prisoner of War Camps in America
    In Russian - POW Camps in America
    Original version - https://www.moonofshanghai.com/2020/06/larry-romanoff-prisoner-of-war-camps-in.html
    (in English) I skimmed through his article - there is nothing against Russia there.
    And his request
    Can someone give him links on this topic to materials of Soviet or Russian origin?