Armenia: having lost a large part of Nagorno-Karabakh, how not to lose everything

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The "hot" phase of the armed conflict that lasted for a month and a half in the Caucasus is over, and with very different results for its parties. While Baku is celebrating a clear victory and reveling in its own superiority over a longtime enemy, Yerevan is trying to find ways to prevent a military defeat (an attempt to defend the unrecognized republic and its own past achievements) from turning into a final collapse for the whole country.

President of Azerbaijan Ilham Aliyev, declaring on the territory of Aghdam region that “the war was left behind”, did not fail to make a statement about “complete and final defeat of the Armenian army” as such. There are reports that the Azerbaijani side is transporting military equipment and weapons seized from the enemy to its home in echelons. There is indeed a rout, and it is impossible to deny it.



Nevertheless, a much greater danger for Armenia today is not an external enemy (from which it is reliably protected by membership in the CSTO and the presence of quite impressive forces of Russian peacekeepers on the demarcation line in Nagorno-Karabakh itself), but an internal discord that is tormenting the country. The confusion and horror of the first days and nights, when the entire heavy burden of military defeat and shameful surrender fell on the Armenian people, almost pushed it into the chaos of civil confrontation, which could well have turned into bloodshed not in Artsakh, but in Yerevan.

Half a step to collapse


It seemed that until the final collapse of the entire power vertical in Armenia was not even a step, but a half step. President Armen Sarkissian spoke about the need to remove the prime minister from power (who signed the "obscene peace" - a quote from those who spoke on the square in the center of Yerevan) and early parliamentary elections. One after another, resignations of members of the Pashinyan cabinet and other high-ranking officials rained down. The departure from their posts of Foreign Minister Zohrab Mnatsakanyan, Emergencies Minister Felix Tsolakyan, Adviser to Parliament Speaker Ashot Gulyan, Defense Minister and others looked like the beginning of a process of complete disintegration.

And then a message arrived that Pashinyan was simply going to be physically eliminated, “executed for treason” (either some “oppositionists”, or participants in hostilities, or both in the community). This was avoided. I believe that luckily for Armenia itself

Why “fortunately”? The best thing about this was said by Russian President Vladimir Putin, who bluntly stated that Armenia, "under the threat of a resumption of hostilities", simply "cannot afford" any revolutions, overthrow of the authorities and similar internal cataclysms.

"Suicide for Armenia"


Especially dangerous will be a situation in which, after a hypothetical coup, power will be seized by a conditional "war party", eager for an immediate and decisive revenge. Vladimir Putin, not at all embarrassed in expressions, called this option "suicide for Armenia."

It's hard to disagree with him. In the current situation: Yerevan has no chances of military success. Not the slightest. But any rash step on his part will finally untie the hands of Baku and Ankara. There they are just waiting for an excuse to finish what they have begun by hoisting the Azerbaijani flag over Stepanakert. And that's at least.

Pashinyan's "saving" plan - how not to lose everything, having lost a large part of Karabakh


Under these conditions, Pashinyan's expressed intention to remain in power, at least for some more time, is perhaps the most acceptable option for the country. Moreover, the prime minister has already announced a certain "salvific" plan to overcome the acute internal crisis.

He called it in the best traditions of American students and pupils "road map", but that's not the point. Among the proposed priority measures, summarized by the head of government in 15 main points, there are also quite sensible, even, one might say, vital.

Restoration of the destroyed (first of all - residential buildings). Caring for the families of the dead servicemen and those of them who became crippled in this war. Release from captivity of all compatriots who found themselves there. Returning to the place of permanent residence of the refugees and (again) providing them with all possible support. These intentions can rally people and make people think about something other than the severity of defeat.

True, the program also contains enough general and openly populist points. Kind of "overcoming the coronavirus." "Economic recovery and revival". Pashinyan's so beloved "fight against corruption". And even "solutions to demographic problems." But this is obviously a necessary background. So to speak, the general outline.

Better late than never


Naturally, the prime minister (trying to stay in power) started talking about a "comprehensive program for the restoration, reform and modernization of the armed forces." Actually, I should have thought about this before the war, not after. But it's better later than never.

The main thing is that the dream of military revenge does not turn into a "fix idea" for both the Armenian authorities and all its people. In such a case, the country will definitely embark on a path leading to its complete collapse.

For Russia, this will mean a much more difficult and bloody war in the Caucasus than the conflict that it has just managed to resolve with such difficulty.
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  1. +13
    23 November 2020 19: 56
    "Pashinyan's rescue plan"
    I think there already depends more on Putin than on Pashinyan ...
    Pashinyan has already made plans.
    1. -6
      23 November 2020 20: 05
      Actually, Armenia didn't seem to be at war. The Karabakh Armenians fought. So de jure, Pashinyan cannot be called the prime minister of a country that lost the war. Although there were enough reasons to declare war on Azerbaijan, these were the shelling of Armenia itself and the downed planes in its airspace. Having declared war, one could ask Russia for help, as a country subjected to aggression. There is no other way. Putin is a lawyer and knows international law.
    2. -25
      23 November 2020 20: 15
      The defeat by the Azerbaijanis of the army of Armenia, the country of the military ally of the Russian Federation in the OKBD, is also a defeat for Russia, no matter how much the Kremlin wants to hide it. And this outcome was largely predetermined by Russia's weakness, both politically and militarily. And the talk that "we will defend Armenia, but we cannot protect Karabakh because international law does not allow" is from the evil one. For some reason, the Kremlin forgot about "international law" when it came to sending troops into Ukraine or threats to introduce "law enforcement officers" into raging Belarus.

      It must be admitted that Russia abandoned its historical ally in the South Caucasus to be torn apart by the combined forces of the two Turkic powers. This is exactly how everyone perceived it in Armenia, and in the pro-Russian separatist regions of the former USSR, they thought hard about the prospects of their formations. Moscow is weak, both militarily and politically, and has neither the strength nor the desire to defend its own man-made creations.
      1. +1
        23 November 2020 20: 30
        Quote: withoutreverse
        The defeat by the Azerbaijanis of the army of Armenia, the country of the military ally of the Russian Federation in the OKBD, is also a defeat for Russia, no matter how much the Kremlin wants to hide it. And this outcome was largely predetermined by Russia's weakness, both politically and militarily. And the talk that "we will defend Armenia, but we cannot protect Karabakh because international law does not allow" is from the evil one. For some reason, the Kremlin forgot about "international law" when it came to sending troops into Ukraine or threats to introduce "law enforcement officers" into raging Belarus.

        It must be admitted that Russia abandoned its historical ally in the South Caucasus to be torn apart by the combined forces of the two Turkic powers. This is exactly how everyone perceived it in Armenia, and in the pro-Russian separatist regions of the former USSR, they thought hard about the prospects of their formations. Moscow is weak, both militarily and politically, and has neither the strength nor the desire to defend its own man-made creations.

        Here they are discussing Armenia, and you - Russia. Go to Thomas from Erema.
      2. +15
        23 November 2020 20: 35
        Why does Armenia not declare war, mobilization, not starting to fight with its entire army, not recognizing Artsakh as its own, does it demand this from Russia? No one ever stopped the Jews from successfully fighting the much superior Arabs.
      3. +1
        23 November 2020 22: 16
        Crocodile Gena raged, instead of Fantomas ............................................ .............................................
      4. +6
        23 November 2020 23: 35
        Can you explain to me what kind of "ally" it is that is chasing his ally?
        And about the "historical". Can you tell me when Armenia proved its conscience to Russia? Or is it all just in words?
        The times of the Second World War cannot be cited as an example, then there was a single state and, defending the USSR, Armenia defended itself as well.
        1. 0
          24 November 2020 16: 16
          I'll explain to you now:
          1. 0
            24 November 2020 22: 29
            as I say about it. Armenia has never been an ally of Russia. As far as I know the history of Armenia, she betrayed everyone and always.
      5. +4
        24 November 2020 12: 44
        Quote: withoutreverse
        Admittedly, Russia abandoned its historical ally in the South Caucasus ...
        During the independence of Armenia, the Russian population of Armenia has decreased by 4 times. A very good indicator of the attitude of Armenians to the Russian population. And under Pashinyan, this was even more aggravated. And now the Armenians (including those living in Russia) are somehow unhappy that Russia does not kill its soldiers there for their interests.
        Actually, I'm not surprised.
    3. +22
      23 November 2020 21: 23
      Meanwhile, the Armenians in Russia:
      Levon Hovhannisyan in Volgograd pierced the skull of a traffic police officer while trying to arrest him. A month ago (in the same Volgograd!) Armen Melkonyan broke the head of his single father, Roman Grebenyuk, from whom he died, and left his daughter and old father orphans. Six months ago, our special forces soldier from Syria was stabbed to death by the Armenians in Moscow. Do Russians in Yerevan or Baku often kill local police officers, fathers and children?
      1. +11
        23 November 2020 22: 59
        By and large, it is necessary to drive these Caucasians from Russia all indiscriminately nat
        95% of crimes are persons of Caucasian nationalities .................
      2. -3
        23 November 2020 23: 08
        Firstly, unlike Yerevan, there are many Russians in Baku and there is no sense in Baku and in other cities of Azerbaijan too. Secondly, there is no need to start about the Armenians and make the Azerbaijanis laugh. In the third, criminal showdowns are common in post-Soviet Russia. It was necessary during the late 80s to give a reaction to the American intervention, including when the Nazi extremists in Armenia began an interethnic conflict that would ruin the Soviet Union
        1. 0
          24 November 2020 12: 02
          The lion's share of migrants travels to commit crimes here.
        2. +3
          24 November 2020 12: 34
          Do you recall the early 90s and the time of Elchibey's reign? How many Russians then left Azerbaijan? There remained only those who had no place to leave, who were afraid of losing their assets and were afraid of change.
          1. 0
            24 November 2020 18: 13
            Let me then remind you that the first president of Azerbaijan and before that the first secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Azerbaijan was Ayaz Mutallibov, who always held a pro-Russian position, after the inglorious 366 regiment committed genocide in Azerbaijani Khojaly, Elchibey came to power. Perhaps someday we will punish the war criminals Ogonyan, Sargsyan and Kocharyan, as their deserts got what they deserved in the recent war, but the Russian side has not yet given the necessary assessment of the actions of this regiment and its commander Zavigarov. History has properties that it will repeat itself, and I personally do not exclude that having bribed the Russian peacekeepers, the extremists Armenians can repeat the same thing with their hands, this time with pure Russian units, because at the 366th regiment many refer to the fact that it was a unit of the Soviet army. First, give your personal assessment, and then I will address the Slavs in social networks who still live in Azerbaijan and make sure in your eyes that no one and nothing threatened or threatened them. And tales about all kinds of pogroms were invented by specialists in the United States and faked in life according to the instructions of the Armenian diaspora and the KGB of the Armenian SSR. Giving the first management of the KGB of the USSR into the hands of the Armenian Natsiks was Andropov's fatal mistake, for which we all pay now
            1. +2
              25 November 2020 12: 09
              Yes, I know that you live. And you give the statistics how many left RUNNING from you. Then we'll talk. And so about nothing.
    4. -4
      23 November 2020 21: 42
      Uncle Vova is, as always, in his repertoire - we don’t change horses at the crossing.
      He hasn't changed his thieves for twenty years.
      1. -3
        23 November 2020 22: 10
        tell us about your horses, which you changed at the crossing
        in spite of Uncle Vova, so to speak
        and then every Zelensky is ready to disparagingly about Uncle Vova, the Supreme Commander, whose orders are carried out by the Armed Forces of my country


        1. +8
          24 November 2020 05: 33
          And what have I to do with it, and even more so Zelensky?
          It's time to change the training manual, all critics of the regime, automatically writing them down.

          When Chubais is not only put in jail, but at least retired, then we'll talk. In the meantime, it is better to be silent in a rag.
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. -4
              24 November 2020 11: 14
              And what have I to do with it, and even more so Zelensky?

              and you are not colleagues, are you?
              all critics of the regime

              I'm talking colleagues
              1. 0
                24 November 2020 11: 18
                I read your kamenty, straight Alexander Matrosov NOD troops.
                1. -5
                  24 November 2020 11: 24
                  but I didn’t read yours, because the same type of wet groans of ours put up with oppositionists no longer even amuse

                  put a minus and fix your red nose. The mode is waiting for your reeling.

                  PS when the body writes the word "regime", then this is immediately Zelensky's colleague, which means he is on stage. Attracts the attention of the orderlies with another "groan"

                  The regime is in your maneuver, a sad fighter with the state

  2. The comment was deleted.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. -1
        23 November 2020 21: 25
        “Ours” - that people never was.
        First, they exchanged their homeland for 30 shekels, and now they also bark from there to Russia. Even here, on VO, there is such a wagon and a small cart.
        1. +1
          23 November 2020 22: 11
          Quote: Megatron
          “Ours” - that people never was.
          First, they exchanged their homeland for 30 shekels, and now they also bark from there to Russia. Even here, on VO, there is such a wagon and a small cart.

          I agree, but the RSFSR lost too many of its sons and daughters in the Second World War to remain silent in front of the Nazis ... who slip here on VO from time to time ... I also get mad sometimes Halts и Professor, but this does not mean that it is necessary to kill the Jews, albeit Israeli ones (who took the Gollans from the people of the SAR) ...
          1. +2
            24 November 2020 01: 25
            What is there to do? They brazenly spit on everything and still claim to be right. It seems to me that if words do not help, should I wet it? So?
          2. 0
            24 November 2020 05: 29
            And I didn’t say about "wetting", do not distort my words.
            I'm just stating facts.
    2. +1
      23 November 2020 23: 00
      so Armenians are christian Jews so who should be eliminated?
    3. +2
      23 November 2020 23: 37
      This is not a conflict between Muslims and Christians, but purely territorial. More than a hundred nations and peoples of different faiths live peacefully in Azerbaijan. And Azerbaijanis have a very good and calm attitude towards Christians.
      1. -1
        24 November 2020 12: 14
        Oh, okay. Half of Azerbaijan lives in Russia for some reason.
        Is everything so good in the "prosperous oil power"?
        1. 0
          24 November 2020 14: 38
          We are not talking about the economic situation of the countries, but about the fact that there are no disagreements on the issue of faith in Azerbaijan. Well, the fact that they are going to Russia is quite understandable. Russia is big and there is a place in it for everyone who wants to work there and who respects its laws and its people. True, it is a pity that often not the best representatives of their countries go to Russia, and therefore they are used to judge all representatives of a particular nation or country ..
  3. +6
    23 November 2020 20: 21
    Armenia needs to firmly decide how to live with its neighbors - either peace and sincere friendship, or look at Azerbaijan with privet, gradually harm, and prepare for revenge - in years and decades, not earlier. The best option for them, with our help, is to find a common language with the Azeri people and to solve problems together. For this, Azerbaijan should not consider Armenia an exclusively enemy territory, but learn to live peacefully with its neighbors, and perhaps even help the Armenians, and jointly heal its wounds from the war.
    1. +4
      23 November 2020 20: 29
      It is more profitable for Armenians to live in the world, because their main activities are carried out on the territory of Russia, where they closely interact with Azerbaijanis as well. They will be erepenny, they will cover the feeder. And Armenia is an incubator - it was born, took wings, and moved to Russia.
    2. +5
      23 November 2020 20: 54
      Armenia needs to firmly decide how to live with its neighbors - either peace and sincere friendship, or look at Azerbaijan with primers, gradually harm, and prepare for revenge
      You look superficially at the situation in this region of the Caucasus. Both in Armenia and in Azerbaijan, a generation of people has already grown up who, with their mother's milk, absorbed hatred for their neighbor.

      Therefore, there it is already necessary to settle one polls separately from the others - as this was done here and there in Europe after the end of World War II. And if Armenians and Azerbaijanis are not isolated from each other, then the slaughter there will be endless. The massacre of neighbors is one of the states of the peoples of the Caucasus.
      1. DAQ
        +2
        23 November 2020 21: 43
        You look superficially at the situation in this region of the Caucasus. Both in Armenia and in Azerbaijan, a generation of people has already grown up who, with their mother's milk, absorbed hatred for their neighbor.

        Therefore, there it is already necessary to settle one polls separately from the others - as this was done here and there in Europe after the end of World War II. And if Armenians and Azerbaijanis are not isolated from each other, then the slaughter there will be endless. Massacre of neighbors is one of the states of the peoples of the Caucasus


        I agree. It would be naive to try to settle them together and wait for peace. Interethnic quarrels will begin. And then it will turn again, with cut pipes and fittings.
        They naively hope for a "liberal multicultural" good-neighborliness between these peoples, where they have blood for blood.
        We must protect them from each other. Time will pass. Maybe that will change. But not now.
        Over there, the Serbs and the Bosnians are quietly improving relations, and the hatred between them is no longer so strong.
        THAT'S WHAT THE ANIMAL CURTAIN (IRON) DOES. hi
      2. 0
        23 November 2020 23: 05
        Quote: Selevc
        Armenia needs to firmly decide how to live with its neighbors - either peace and sincere friendship, or look at Azerbaijan with primers, gradually harm, and prepare for revenge
        You look superficially at the situation in this region of the Caucasus. Both in Armenia and in Azerbaijan, a generation of people has already grown up who, with their mother's milk, absorbed hatred for their neighbor.

        Therefore, there it is already necessary to settle one polls separately from the others - as this was done here and there in Europe after the end of World War II. And if Armenians and Azerbaijanis are not isolated from each other, then the slaughter there will be endless. The massacre of neighbors is one of the states of the peoples of the Caucasus.

        Unfortunately, the massacre of neighbors is a favorite thing of all our species, but in Europe the economic situation allows us not to think about these problems for now. There, more than one generation will not see each other, an Armenian friend said that their people in Karabakh fought with the Turks. It was before the recent conflict, as far as I know, the Armenians call Azerbaijanis Turks. Isolation is not a guarantee of pacification, but rather an effective solution. hi
      3. ANB
        0
        23 November 2020 23: 06
        ... Therefore, there it is already necessary to resettle some of them separately from others.

        Some to the Kola Peninsula, the second to Sakhalin.
        There is nowhere more reliable. :)
    3. -1
      23 November 2020 21: 17
      Quote: Thrifty
      Armenia needs to firmly decide how to live with its neighbors - or peace and sincere friendship,

      The post-Soviet space and the countries of the former CMEA do not want to live in peace with their neighbors, they want to live in peace with the distant "friends" of the EU and the United States ...
  4. +2
    23 November 2020 20: 24
    As an example, what did the results of the Russian-Japanese war of 1904-05 lead to? By bloody Sunday. Pashinyan "Polukarabakhsky" would not muddy such a scenario - he pushes the military elite aside, does not show himself to the people. Who will act as the Armenian Gapon there? Hope they get a tub of cold water from you-know-who.
  5. 0
    23 November 2020 21: 26
    Why didn't the US intervene ???
    Pashinyan and the lion's share of Armenians counted on this!
    Maybe Americans are afraid of Russians, or do they just give a shit about Armenians?
    Or, as the Ukrainians say, the US stands on the side of the Turks and Azerbaijanis and dreams of dismembering Armenia and damaging Russia?
    there are many, many different reasons, but there is a clear understanding, there will be no more war, which means it was beneficial to the main interests, with the exception of the victims and their relatives.
    1. +1
      23 November 2020 21: 41
      many, many different why - but there is a clear understanding, there will be no more war, which means it was beneficial to the main interests - with the exception of the victims and their relatives.

      Condolences to relatives! And the war was simply frozen, as it happened in the 21st century. Az was one step away from the complete return of Karabakh to his statehood, but the "Big Guys" postponed the issue, so there will still be war, unfortunately. Because national question not only not allowed, but even aggravated and saturated with new blood.
    2. 0
      23 November 2020 23: 02
      the election was run by the usa ... fucked up the moment
  6. +2
    23 November 2020 22: 12
    Quote: sergey32
    Actually, Armenia didn't seem to be at war. The Karabakh Armenians fought. So de jure, Pashinyan cannot be called the prime minister of a country that lost the war. Although there were enough reasons to declare war on Azerbaijan, these were the shelling of Armenia itself and the downed planes in its airspace. Having declared war, one could ask Russia for help, as a country subjected to aggression. There is no other way. Putin is a lawyer and knows international law.

    The Armenians are now vigorously spreading their next story everywhere that they say Armenia did not fight, trying to justify the shameful defeat to which the Armenian army was subjected. They write under different nicknames, change names to Slavic, etc., but the words and expressions are absolutely the same. It can be seen that 1-2 people distribute this bike across all resources.
    In fact, Armenia is not what it fought, it used everything that it had. Even, according to the Armenian media themselves, the entire police in Armenia, so the crowd smashed Yerevan that all the police were in Karabakh.
    All captured Armenians (about 60 people) are citizens of Armenia itself - servicemen of various corps of Armenia and mobilized. All armored vehicles and other means are only about 500 pieces (only 66 tanks are in good condition), the trophy-laden Azerbaijani Armed Forces are equipment belonging to the Armed Forces of the Republic of Armenia. All the killed several thousand Armenian servicemen listed on the website of the Armenian Defense Ministry are citizens of Armenia. Who is to blame that according to Colonel-General M. Hakobyan, only 10 thousand deserters were in the Armenian army (I remind you that there was not a single deserter in the Azerbaijani army). This Armenian high-ranking military man said that only for the first time 3-4 there were 1500 deserters, the President of the Nagorno-Karabakh formation A. Harutyunyan generally stated that 1500 (!) Armenian servicemen had surrendered Hadrut to several dozen Azerbaijani special forces. What other case?)
    Tired of this howl (uhh, otherwise they would have been shown)) of the Armenians and their assistants about the Armenian army of Venk, which did not come to the rescue))
    1. 0
      24 November 2020 11: 08
      It looks like the freaks who offer to annex Armenia or take Armenians to Russia from the same category.
  7. Kuz
    +1
    23 November 2020 22: 54
    It is now vital for Pashinyan to puzzle the people with the restoration of the country - this way it will be easier for people to get over what happened at first.
  8. +2
    23 November 2020 22: 59
    It seems that there are no adequate people left in Armenia. It is noteworthy that the servicemen of the Azerbaijani army do not go to provocations. Here is a good example from the lips of ordinary Armenians https://news.am/rus/news/614968.html
  9. 0
    24 November 2020 00: 04
    Why, well, everyone took and "forgot" the wave of messages initiated by Pashinyan in Europe, initiated by him in Europe (there really was a 2-day message on TV news, which is equivalent to 90% coverage, because in the morning we drink all coffee in bars under a telly bunch) a wave of messages in all major media fact: (I will post the Russian version, maybe not everyone speaks foreign)
  10. +1
    24 November 2020 06: 28
    And even "solutions to demographic problems."
    ..Pashinyan, wants to close the "Armenian incubator" or open a program for the return of Armenians to their historical homeland from near and far abroad? smile
  11. 0
    24 November 2020 21: 53
    Pashinyan personally, will solve the demographic problem? I do not want to seem not entirely modest, but how exactly? He has enough strength to cover all of Armenia?
  12. 0
    30 November 2020 00: 00
    Of course, after the prossany battle, We should worry about the gouging Pashinyan, otherwise he is a tryndet to our base and our surrounded peacekeepers, who are deep in the priest!
    As soon as Pashinyan is overthrown and local radicals come to power, then our situation in Armenia will become very complicated! That is why our president is worried about His fate!

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