Military Review

Two unsuccessful missile launches of the Armenian 9K33M "Osa" air defense system, acquired in Jordan

179
Two unsuccessful missile launches of the Armenian 9K33M "Osa" air defense system, acquired in Jordan

A video of the unsuccessful launch of missiles of the 9K33M Osa surface-to-air missile system (SAM) has appeared on the Web. The video reportedly shows an Armenian air defense system trying to launch missiles.


The description of the video, which appeared on November 19, does not say when and where the video was filmed, but there is a recording of the following content:

That is why the enemy's drones were so dominant in our sky, one missile spits out right in front of us, another spits out to the side, this is our air defense. The question is - who bought us such military equipment?



As it has already been written more than once, including on the pages of the "Military Review", the Armenian side suffered the main losses from the attack drones and kamikaze drones of the Azerbaijani army. The lack of modern air defense among the Armenians played into the hands of Azerbaijan, its drones completely controlled the ground situation not only on the line of contact, but also in the rear of Armenian units.

At the time of the beginning of the military conflict, the Osa-AKM anti-aircraft missile systems, put into service in 1980, were the main means of the military air defense of the Nagorno-Karabakh army. Note that, due to their obsolescence, these anti-aircraft systems are not able to deal with modern drones. In addition, there are many videos on the Web where Azerbaijani drones of Turkish production "Bayraktar" destroy the Armenian "Osa" air defense systems.

Based on the losses of the Armenian side, it can be judged that the Osa-AKM air defense system of the NKR defense army was unlikely to undergo the modernization, which was announced back in 2015. The modernized complexes, as announced earlier, were to receive a digital system for selecting moving targets of the radar station, as well as a modified television-optical sighting device "TOV-M". In addition, a new all-weather digital video camera was installed on the air defense system, capable of operating at any time of the day.

It should be reminded that a scandal flared up in Armenia in July this year, the theme of which was the Osa-AKM air defense systems purchased in Jordan. It was alleged that, under the guise of modernized Osa AKM anti-aircraft missile systems, 35 old and unusable Osa AK were purchased from Jordan in the amount of XNUMX units. Perhaps it was these complexes that were put into service with the NKR army.
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  1. Pereira
    Pereira 21 November 2020 19: 44
    +6
    There will be a lot of speculation on this topic. Not sure if we will find out the truth.
    1. Finches
      Finches 21 November 2020 19: 53
      +8
      Moreover, Jordan bought them from Ukraine from under the floor, where they were written off by explosions in the warehouses of art weapons! laughing
      1. WIKI
        WIKI 21 November 2020 23: 25
        22
        Quote: Finches
        Richem Jordan bought them from Ukraine from under the counter

        ZYABLITSEV! Where do you collect this gossip? "In the 1980s, anti-aircraft missile systems (SAM)" Strela-10 "," Osa-AKM ", as well as self-propelled anti-aircraft guns ZSU-23-4" Shilka "were supplied to Jordan. Rosoboronexport" offered Jordan the revision of the "Osa- AKM "for the target complex" Saman-M "." Https://tass.ru/politika/588351
        “Soviet military air defense systems were purchased by Jordan in the USSR in 1981-1989, and their purchases were financed by the Iraqi government. According to Western media, Jordan then received 60 combat vehicles 9A33BM SAM 9K33M2 "Osa-AK", https://topwar.ru/128436-iordaniya-rasprodaet-zenitnye-kompleksy-osa-snyatye-s-vooruzheniya.html
        "The Ministry of Defense of Jordan intends to remove from service and sell 52 Osa self-propelled anti-aircraft missile systems, reports Jane's Defense Weekly. Poland, the Czech Republic, Ukraine, as well as a certain American company have already shown interest in acquiring equipment. Jordan acquired air defense systems in the USSR in 1981-1989. " https://aviator.guru/blog/43113853768/Drevnie-sovetskie-ZRK-pomogut-Ukrayine-razve-chto-protiv-bespilo
        1. MTN
          MTN 22 November 2020 00: 05
          12
          Quote: WIKI
          Where do you collect this gossip?

          You don't pay attention to the main thing. Armenians buy Russian weapons in Jordan for money. Instead of buying from Russia (possibly at good interest) to pay Jordan and purchases from Russia on credit (with the hope that the debt will be forgotten) well, who are they after that?
          1. WIKI
            WIKI 22 November 2020 01: 34
            +2
            Does Russia produce them? Or maybe it removes from service those 250 pieces that are there?
            1. Toucan
              Toucan 22 November 2020 02: 56
              +8
              In our country, the production of these complexes was discontinued in the second half of the 80s. The missiles were assembled until 1991. Now part of the Osa-AKM air defense system that we have has been modernized. But this complex is considered obsolete and should be replaced by the latest modifications of the "Thor".
            2. zyablik.olga
              zyablik.olga 22 November 2020 04: 07
              +1
              In sufficient detail about the "Osa" and "Thor" air defense systems is described here:
              https://topwar.ru/168260-mnogo-li-u-nas-sistem-pvo-zrk-osa-i-zrk-tor.html
          2. Yujanin
            Yujanin 22 November 2020 02: 05
            -3

            ... Instead of buying from Russia (possibly at good interest) to pay Jordan and purchases from Russia on credit (with the hope that the debt will be forgotten), well, who are they after that?

            Allies and brothers of sadomasochists laughing
          3. Boris Chernikov
            Boris Chernikov 22 November 2020 10: 30
            0
            you can't swear on topvar)
        2. ccsr
          ccsr 22 November 2020 13: 35
          +1
          Quote: WIKI
          “Soviet military air defense systems were purchased by Jordan in the USSR in 1981-1989, and their purchases were financed by the Iraqi government. According to Western media, Jordan then received 60 combat vehicles 9А33БМ SAM 9K33М2 "Osa-AK",

          Well, you don't have to be a great specialist to understand that everything that was purchased then, including the mobile base, not only became morally obsolete, but also physically worn out. Therefore, it is naive to believe that out of these 60 vehicles, at least something remained in service by 2015 - any military professional will confirm this. Therefore, Zyablitsev's version is not as groundless as you want to imagine. And it would not hurt you to know at least the basic service life of equipment and weapons in the SA, determined by the order of the Ministry of Defense, in order to understand that the main weapons of the ground after 15-20 years were supposed to be written off or surveyed for a possible extension of the resource, and even then for a limited time.
          1. WIKI
            WIKI 22 November 2020 14: 29
            0
            Quote: ccsr
            And you would not hurt to know at least the basic service life of equipment and weapons

            For a start, you should read the TASS report of 2012, to which I referred, then wrote a comment: "Russia is modernizing the military air defense systems supplied to Jordan earlier. This was reported to ITAR-TASS by the head of the security department of Rosoboronexport Valery Varlamov. He heads the delegation of the enterprise. at the 9th International Special Forces Exhibition SOFEX-2012, which is closing today in the capital of Jordan.

            "We received specific requests from the Jordanian side after detailed presentations made by our specialists, during which possible directions for the modernization of previously supplied air defense systems were presented. We are now working closely on this topic," Varlamov said.

            In the 1980s, anti-aircraft missile systems (SAM) Strela-10, Osa-AKM, as well as self-propelled anti-aircraft guns ZSU-23-4 Shilka were supplied to Jordan. According to experts, the very fact that these complexes are still in service with the Jordanian air defense system is the best evidence of their high reliability. "Https://tass.ru/politika/588351
            1. ccsr
              ccsr 23 November 2020 12: 03
              +1
              Quote: WIKI
              “Russia is modernizing the military air defense systems supplied to Jordan earlier.

              What complexes and when are not specified - you at least carefully study the text itself before citing it. The words of the head of the department at the exhibition "MODERNIZES" does not mean that the Intergovernmental Agreement has been CONCLUDED and it has been fulfilled. Moreover, the boss himself said:
              Quote: WIKI
              We are now working closely on this topic, "Varlamov said.


              Quote: WIKI
              are still in service with the Jordanian air defense,

              This is a "serious" example, you will not say anything, especially since it is not said in what state it is. If we kept such weapons at home, our air defense would be worthless.
              1. WIKI
                WIKI 23 November 2020 15: 28
                -1
                " Russia modernizes military air defense systems previously supplied to Jordan. ITAR-TASS reported about it
                In the 1980s, the Strela-10 and Osa-AKM anti-aircraft missile systems (SAM) were supplied to Jordan
                Quote: ccsr
                If we kept such weapons at home, our air defense would be worthless.

                "Until now (2020) about 250 Osa-AKM" are in the Russian armed forces. "Https://topwar.ru/168260-mnogo-li-u-nas-sistem-pvo-zrk-osa-i-zrk -tor.html
                1. sivuch
                  sivuch 23 November 2020 16: 40
                  +1
                  Today - no more than 170
                2. ccsr
                  ccsr 23 November 2020 18: 56
                  +1
                  Quote: WIKI
                  "Until now (2020) about 250" Osa-AKM "are in the Russian armed forces."

                  These are not at all the products that we supplied to Jordan in the 80s - they have completely different characteristics, not to mention the fact that for ourselves we always do what does not go abroad. And the very notion "is in service" is very vague, because there are storage bases where such products can be stored for many years before final disposal. This is what the author says in the article:
                  However, unlike the regimental air defense system "Strela-10M2 / M3", the leadership of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation did not consider it necessary to modernize the Osa-AKM air defense system... According to available information, in the last few years up to 50 complexes are decommissioned per year.
                  1. WIKI
                    WIKI 23 November 2020 20: 37
                    -1
                    Let's finish grinding water in a mortar.
                  2. Cyril G ...
                    Cyril G ... 25 November 2020 12: 32
                    +1
                    Quote: ccsr
                    These are not at all the products that we supplied to Jordan in the 80s - they have completely different characteristics,

                    If sclerosis does not let me down, Osa-M had 4 times more letter frequencies for our fleet than Osa-ME
      2. paco.soto
        paco.soto 22 November 2020 00: 23
        +6
        Finches
        Yesterday, 19: 53
        NEW

        12
        Moreover, Jordan bought them from Ukraine from under the floor, where they were written off by explosions in the warehouses of art weapons! laughing
        Reply ©
        Zyablitsev, place now here a confirmation of your comment. Or how lied
        1. Finches
          Finches 22 November 2020 03: 29
          +5
          "Mister sovramshi!" laughing I don't think that I owe you something, but so be it, I will answer - I did not write seriously and as a joke, as evidenced by the laughing smiley at the end of the sentence hi
          1. volodimer
            volodimer 22 November 2020 15: 15
            +2
            Or they could photoshop the paper with stamps. The contract for the purchase of OJSC Arab Emirates from the OPG UkroHunta SP of the products OSA ZRK (very dry spare rubber canned food). Delivery is carried out on a ballistic trajectory by blowing up warehouses at the supplier's premises.
          2. paco.soto
            paco.soto 23 November 2020 19: 53
            0
            Zyablitsev, ya did not know this "code" of emoticons in the forum, so I did not understand the semantic content of your comment. I consider it all a misunderstanding. Best regards to you.
    2. poquello
      poquello 21 November 2020 20: 20
      +3
      Quote: Pereira
      There will be a lot of speculation on this topic. Not sure if we will find out the truth.

      speculation was just with these wasps, bablokui pushed their purchase for space money
    3. Boris ⁣ Shaver
      Boris ⁣ Shaver 21 November 2020 22: 01
      0
      Quote: Pereira
      Not sure if we'll find out the truth

      If you expect that the truth will be presented on a silver platter, then you have to live centuries later and carefully leaf through textbooks. And that's not a fact.
      1. Pereira
        Pereira 21 November 2020 22: 27
        -2
        You're right. This article should simply be ignored.
      2. orionvitt
        orionvitt 21 November 2020 23: 12
        +1
        Quote: Boris ⁣Razor
        If you wait for the truth to be presented on a silver platter

        True, it is on the surface. Bought it is not clear what, it is not clear from whom. But this is still not enough. Purchased goods must be properly serviced and be able to use them. And with this, guys with a hot mentality (anywhere), frankly have problems.
        1. MTN
          MTN 22 November 2020 00: 09
          +1
          Quote: orionvitt
          True, it is on the surface. Bought it is not clear what, it is not clear from whom.

          If Azerbaijanis were buying, they would immediately discuss in detail all the details of the purchase, but in this case, I do not understand your feedback.
          An article that the Russian "ally" Armenia buys Russian (Soviet) weapons in Jordan for loot, instead of buying these weapons at good prices in Russia and, moreover, for a loan. That's what you need to write about first. And then you are right, it is not clear what you bought ... You see, you cannot constantly bite the hand of the nursing one. This is the result.
          1. orionvitt
            orionvitt 22 November 2020 14: 18
            0
            Quote: MTN
            You see, you cannot constantly bite the hand of a nursing person. This is the result.

            However, I am about the same. But besides "biting", you also need to know your place in the world. The neighbors showed them this clearly. They would not show off against Russia, with their pro-Western vector, would listen to their "elder brother", the latest events, could have been avoided.
    4. Boris Chernikov
      Boris Chernikov 22 November 2020 10: 29
      0
      Yes, there is even no need to know the truth. If the UAV can rise to a height of 8 km, then the air defense system with a height of 5 km somehow does not pull ... ours also have similar air defense systems, but they are part of the layered air defense system, where the same there are complexes Buk, S-300/400 ... i.e. all echelons were closed, and then apparently when the UAVs were used earlier, they "lit up", Apparently some kind of UAV climbed to the maximum height and was not shot down, after which they decided to prepare in this vein
    5. iouris
      iouris 22 November 2020 10: 55
      0
      There is no subject for speculation: there is speculation in arms. Can a complaint be made to Jordan? No. That is that.
  2. OgnennyiKotik
    OgnennyiKotik 21 November 2020 19: 50
    -7
    Classic. Either the air defense is old, or the operators are crooked. Emphasize as appropriate.
    1. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 22 November 2020 00: 23
      -3
      Either the air defense is old, or the operators are crooked. Emphasize as appropriate.

      I wonder where you will emphasize on the fact of the attack on the Abkaik and Khurais refineries,
      The Abkaik plant was defended by three Skyguard air defense batteries, but they, like the Patriot and Shahie in service with the MIM-104 systems, showed their inadequacy against a group of small low-flying drones. Experts also note the traditionally poor preparation of the Saudi calculations


      or

      The US air defense systems defending military bases in Iraq after a missile strike from Iran, however, failed to intercept Iranian missiles. Then the truth is American clowns came up with that their bases were not covered at all by the air defense system ... I understand them, it was necessary to freeze something.

      Or, here's a Target Rocket that has successfully stuck into a Burke-type ship during practical firing.


      1. Sergey Sfiedu
        Sergey Sfiedu 22 November 2020 02: 14
        +1
        H'm. The refinery was indeed attacked by low-flying cruise missiles and drones (in fact, also cruise missiles), while in Armenia drones and loitering ammunition operated from medium altitudes. Do you need to explain the difference?
        P.S. What specific air defense systems defended the US bases in Iraq during the Iranian retaliatory strike?
        P.P.S. Remember the death of MRK "Monsoon". The "Osa" air defense missile system worked on the missile.
        P.P.P.S. This does not mean that our weapons are bad, and the Yankees have excellent ones. It is about the fact that bias is unacceptable in the analysis of military operations.
        1. sivuch
          sivuch 22 November 2020 10: 00
          +3
          It means that bias is unacceptable in the analysis of military operations.
          Who would argue. Are you sure that Fiery Cat's post can be called objective?
          By the way, he missed the third option - when the air defense is old and his hands are crooked
          1. Niel-le-Calais
            Niel-le-Calais 22 November 2020 19: 29
            -2
            Quote: sivuch
            By the way, he missed the third option - when the air defense is old and his hands are crooked

            and the fourth is when he is not there and his hands are crooked. Or old air defense, but no hands ..
            Victory has many parents, defeat is always an orphan.
          2. Cyril G ...
            Cyril G ... 22 November 2020 23: 39
            0
            Quote: sivuch
            when the air defense is old and the hands are crooked


            Something like this...
        2. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 22 November 2020 10: 06
          0
          Quote: Sergey Sfyedu
          P.S. What specific air defense systems defended the US bases in Iraq during the Iranian retaliatory strike?

          Do you sincerely believe that the Americans fundamentally ignored the air defense questions, firstly, and secondly, they dump the staff organization into the net?

          Do you need to explain the difference?

          Explain by the way, I was already wondering what is the difference?

          It means that bias is unacceptable in the analysis of military operations.

          You tell this to the Fiery cat, for example, he already jumps up with joy.
          Either the air defense is old, or the operators are crooked. Emphasize as appropriate.

          That's all objectivity, yes ... So I repeat the question there are operators who are crooked or old air defenses, or is it still necessary to objectively approach the analysis of the event, and not pull the pan over your ears?

          I don’t specifically remember the hands. Docs, but the rocket ship must perform practical rocket firing every year. It will be the same for the army team. What I mean - to understand the issue on the NKAO, you need to know whether exercises with firing were organized, etc. etc. At least, based on the content, the Armenians are not aware of the tactics of using SIS, and with other things it is not better. As for the altitude of targets, what is the average height of the relief in the NKAO by the way?
          1. Sergey Sfiedu
            Sergey Sfiedu 22 November 2020 19: 18
            -1
            "You sincerely believe that the Americans basically ignored the air defense issues in the first place," - and what do the Yankees have in Iraq about air defense in general? And why air defense in Iraq? Who threatened them from the air? Before the defeat of ISIS, the United States and Iran were allies in Iraq. The Patriots weren't there. You can rest assured that if the Patriots were there and didn’t work, there would be a howl in the American press. The maximum that could be there - land "Phalanxes" and "Stingers". Do you think it is possible to shoot down a medium-range missile from the Phalanx or the Stinger?
            "secondly, do they dump the staff organization into the network?" - what staff organization? The structure of the ground forces, as far as I know, is unclassified. She is in my opinion and we are not particularly secret.
            "Explain by the way, I was already wondering what the difference is?" - You seriously don't understand the difference in the ability to intercept low-flying cruise missiles and drones flying at medium altitudes? Then what are you doing on this resource? Or are you just joking?
            "Regarding the altitude of the targets, what is the average height of the relief in the NKAO by the way?" - the average temperature in the hospital will not work here. There are both flat and mountainous areas in Karabakh. By the way, the Turks also have air- and ground-based cruise missiles, but I have not seen reliable data on their use in Karabakh. But you wrote about Saudia, and there are almost no mountains there.
            1. OgnennyiKotik
              OgnennyiKotik 22 November 2020 19: 50
              0
              There was clearly an agreement in Iraq. Iran had to answer for the death of the general, so they agreed that they would hit the fields near American bases. No one needed the war at that moment.
              NKR for air defense has an extremely heavy theater of operations. Radar stations have huge holes. Azerbaijan won, first of all, due to advanced tactics. All this talk about old weapons, crooked hands in favor of the poor. Was defeated by the Soviet army, NATO. This is the main conclusion. I'm afraid that the Russian army is a copy of the Armenian one. Technique and tactics of the 70-80s. The main thing is that they do not want or cannot learn new things.
              In the photo, the Russian UAV 2005 (Harop (2009) does not resemble?)

              An interesting conversation about Russian UAVs (though the host is just awful)
              1. sivuch
                sivuch 22 November 2020 22: 35
                +4
                I'm afraid that the Russian army, a copy of the Armenian
                And you do not be afraid, but study the materiel. Look and see what the difference is.
                by the way, even the Armed Forces of Armenia and Artsakh are not the same thing.
  3. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 21 November 2020 19: 52
    +6
    Well, who in the case of "cutting" requires a comprehensive check of the cutting object? It is important here that, at any opportunity, the item disappears ... the warehouses catch fire, the drones destroy it, fall into the abyss ...
    1. halpat
      halpat 21 November 2020 23: 12
      +2
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      Well, who in the case of "cutting" requires a comprehensive check of the cutting object? It is important here that, at any opportunity, the item disappears ... the warehouses catch fire, the drones destroy it, fall into the abyss ...

      There is always one “sawed-off object” - money, and nowhere useless “wasps” and the like are a “sawing tool”, or a means of sawing.
      smile
  4. Thrifty
    Thrifty 21 November 2020 20: 00
    17
    These are all excuses! Who prevented the modernization of equipment? Themselves shit on their heads, and now they are frantically looking for the guilty, or they are trying to make anyone guilty, even the Jordanians, who sold them the old and, again, not modernized "Wasps".
  5. deniso
    deniso 21 November 2020 20: 06
    10
    Hmm. What a very strange loss of control. The question is whether the complex was tuned with subsequent combat launches. The impression is that the missiles simply did not fire properly and were not picked up by the control radar.
    1. OgnennyiKotik
      OgnennyiKotik 21 November 2020 20: 11
      -11 qualifying.
      Quote: denis obuckov
      The impression is that the missiles simply did not fire properly and were not picked up by the control radar.

      It looks like the work of electronic warfare in Azerbaijan.
    2. Captain Pushkin
      Captain Pushkin 21 November 2020 21: 23
      -4
      Quote: denis obuckov
      The impression is that the missiles simply did not fire properly and were not picked up by the control radar.

      So missiles should be "picked up" by the radar? And the peasants didn't know ...
    3. Incvizitor
      Incvizitor 22 November 2020 00: 18
      0
      Did they have a radar? The Armenians seem to have decided to buy Indian goods, but the NKR probably didn't have that either.
    4. Jacket in stock
      Jacket in stock 22 November 2020 05: 34
      0
      Looks like faulty rocket engines. Either they were simply rotten from old age, or knocked / dropped.
  6. Bulgarian
    Bulgarian 21 November 2020 20: 11
    16
    So the missiles are subject to alignment if someone did not know. For this, each air defense missile system has a technical battery. Therefore, it is not surprising that they flew somewhere to the side.
  7. svoit
    svoit 21 November 2020 20: 13
    +4
    Note that due to its obsolescence
    that is, their performance characteristics decreased due to long storage, or the resource decreased?
    SAM "Osa-AKM" of the NKR defense army hardly underwent modernization
    I wonder, but in Russia they have been modernized and they are not afraid of UAVs?
    1. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 21 November 2020 21: 05
      +3
      Quote: svoit
      and in Russia they have been modernized and they are not afraid of UAVs?


      No. looked at the Caucasus Center. at the age of 17, Os has not been found in the combat composition already. Although it is possible that they stayed somewhere. We change them annually to Thor, and in terms of Pine .. And they matured to the idea of ​​the need to modernize the Tunguska.
    2. sivuch
      sivuch 22 November 2020 10: 05
      +3
      NNAZ, modernization by kupolovtsy was supposed for a long time But, even if it has started, the estimated rates are simply ridiculous. - 12 BM / year. Another thing is that in the RF Armed Forces there are now about 250-270 BM Tor of all breeds and only 120-170 BM Os, i.e. the sitavina is not that scary. Moreover, the first Torah is already undergoing modernization.
      1. Cyril G ...
        Cyril G ... 22 November 2020 11: 46
        0
        If you allow me, what kind of modernization composition and the price of the Wasp was offered by the Dome.
        .e. the sitavina is not that scary.

        Well, at least 63-67 Thor batteries come out. There are still Tunguska there, it seems that their modernity has begun? IMHO according to Mind, there it is necessary for missiles and it is desirable to unify the instrument part with Pantsyr.
        1. sivuch
          sivuch 22 November 2020 13: 20
          +1
          It's more difficult with the Tunguska. they have been modernizing for a long time, but there is no specific information about the quantities. Introduced the second mode for sotski - you can detect targets up to H = 6 (before, all restrictions on height were because of this), introduced TPV, but I don't know how an independent channel or combined with SNR. in short, the capabilities have increased greatly, but against medium-altitude targets such as Bayraktar, not enough.
          1. Cyril G ...
            Cyril G ... 22 November 2020 13: 42
            0
            Quote: sivuch
            in short, the capabilities have increased greatly, but against medium-altitude targets such as Bayraktar, not enough.


            This I agree. Tunguska / Kortik, in principle, was conceived as a means of hitting low-altitude high-speed targets. Who thought the targets would be at medium altitudes and low speed!
            1. sivuch
              sivuch 22 November 2020 13: 49
              +1
              So it was always assumed that there would be cubes and beeches.
              1. Cyril G ...
                Cyril G ... 22 November 2020 19: 40
                0
                Quote: sivuch
                beeches.

                Well, I once saw how Air Force personnel from Buk fired at small drones
  8. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 21 November 2020 20: 16
    -18 qualifying.
    The Armenian Iskander did not hit the Ganja airfield either, but ended up in a residential area.
    Instead of KVO 10 m showed KVO 300 m.
    Real combat launches are not the Kapustin Yar training ground.
    1. poquello
      poquello 21 November 2020 20: 22
      +9
      Quote: voyaka uh
      The Armenian Iskander did not hit the Ganja airfield either, but ended up in a residential area.
      Instead of KVO 10 m showed KVO 300 m.
      Real combat launches are not the Kapustin Yar training ground.

      Did the Armenians shoot from Kapustin Yar? did not know
    2. deniso
      deniso 21 November 2020 20: 28
      -3
      Quote: voyaka uh
      the Romanian Iskander did not hit the Ganja airfield either, but ended up in a residential area.
      Instead of KVO


      The complex should be able to use data from global satellite navigation systems ("Glonass", NAVSTAR) The accuracy of the missile hitting the target in the region of 1 meter. If the Armenians do not have Glonass and their hands are growing from the wrong place, then the hitting accuracy will be a curve.
      1. poquello
        poquello 21 November 2020 20: 41
        +5
        Quote: denis obuckov
        If the Armenians do not have Glonass and their hands are growing from the wrong place, then the hitting accuracy will be a curve.

        if there was still an escander
        1. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 21 November 2020 21: 02
          17
          Elbrus was originally announced this time. In the counterattack, the Azerbaijanis disabled the launcher of exactly Elbrus.
        2. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 21 November 2020 21: 42
          -5
          RIA Novosti claims that it is Iskander, not Elbrus (Scud).

          YEREVAN, 19 Nov - RIA Novosti. Former head of the military control service of the Armenian Defense Ministry Movses Hakobyan told reporters on Thursday that the Iskander tactical missile system was used during the escalation of the conflict in Nagorno-Karabakh.
          1. poquello
            poquello 21 November 2020 21: 45
            +4
            Quote: voyaka uh
            RIA Novosti claims that it is Iskander, not Elbrus (Scud).

            YEREVAN, 19 Nov - RIA Novosti. Former head of the military control service of the Armenian Defense Ministry Movses Hakobyan told reporters on Thursday that the Iskander tactical missile system was used during the escalation of the conflict in Nagorno-Karabakh.

            Mosesyan did not state where and when
          2. Stock
            Stock 21 November 2020 22: 37
            -1
            Elbrus shot at Ganja and was then destroyed. With Iskander, the Armenians fired in the direction of Baku on the evening of November 9 right before the signing of the agreement. The missile was shot down 20 km from Baku. But for some reason everyone is silent about this
            1. voyaka uh
              voyaka uh 21 November 2020 23: 40
              +3
              "The missile was shot down 20 km from Baku." ///
              ----
              It is interesting. Is there any infa than brought down?
              Shooting down Iskander is a very difficult technical task.
              1. Stock
                Stock 21 November 2020 23: 51
                -1
                Quote: voyaka uh
                "The missile was shot down 20 km from Baku." ///
                ----
                It is interesting. Is there any infa than brought down?
                Shooting down Iskander is a very difficult technical task.

                I understand it. Just collated the data. The fact that a rocket was shot down near Khirdalan (a suburb of Baku) is a fact, many people saw with their own eyes and the shock wave was quite sensitive. In Armenia, only a couple of systems have such a range, and Iskander is one of them. As I know, the Armenians used Elbrus and Tochka to attack the cities of Azerbaijan before. But in a recent interview, Movses Hakobyan claimed that there were also launches from Iskander. Hence the conclusion. But again, this is all indirect, because even the Azerbaijani Defense Ministry is silent about this.
                1. MTN
                  MTN 22 November 2020 00: 12
                  0
                  Quote: Stock
                  But again, this is all indirect, because even the Azerbaijani Defense Ministry is silent about it.

                  This can be done for 2 reasons.

                  1) At the request of Moscow. (For political reasons)
                  2) Hakobyan's words about the launch of Iskander are lies.

                  Other is not given.
                  1. Cyril G ...
                    Cyril G ... 22 November 2020 00: 48
                    +3
                    Why use Iskander? If Elbrus quite gets to itself from the Armenian territory to Baku? The point is, it was Elbrus that shone on the border, they could even pinch them.
              2. OgnennyiKotik
                OgnennyiKotik 21 November 2020 23: 53
                -2
                This is a very strange story. Something exploded 20 km from Baku, there is no official information, only a photo of what happened in Azeri Telegram channels. It didn't look like Iskander. Perhaps it was an S-300 missile. There is a version that the Armenians tried to shoot down a civilian plane to prevent surrender. Downed Mi-24 in the same cashier.
            2. Cyril G ...
              Cyril G ... 22 November 2020 00: 08
              +2
              Quote: Stock
              Elbrus shot at Ganja and was then destroyed. With Iskander, the Armenians fired in the direction of Baku on the evening of November 9 right before the signing of the agreement. The missile was shot down 20 km from Baku. But for some reason everyone is silent about this


              On Elbrus, it is indisputable that there is a fact of a missile falling on the city, there is a video confirmation of the defeat of a launcher and some other machine of the complex, such as those summits.
              If Iskander was shot down, then where is his wreckage?
          3. Cyril G ...
            Cyril G ... 22 November 2020 00: 10
            +4
            In the video with the defeat of the PU, it is precisely that Elbrus, as well as in a later photo with a charred skeleton, no matter what hot fantasies some "gentlemen" may express
      2. KCA
        KCA 21 November 2020 20: 57
        +5
        Where is it written that Iskander-E is somehow sideways tied to satellite navigation? They write that on "E" only inertial, and on "M" and "K" combined, inertial, GLONASS and GOS of different types
      3. Avior
        Avior 21 November 2020 23: 11
        +6
        Where did the glonass go? Radio signals from him began to fly around Armenia? Or Azerbaijan?
      4. Yujanin
        Yujanin 22 November 2020 02: 48
        -16 qualifying.

        The complex should be able to use the data of the global satellite navigation systems "Glonass"

        There is a glonass satellite navigation station in Armenia. It's just that your vaunted military equipment is worthless. An example of this is that Israeli missile defense systems intercepted the other two Iskander over Baku. The MSA for the same T-90 and BTR-82 sucks. Not recently on the battlefield
        justified themselves. And MSTA-S has a spread worse than Peonies. It's good that we had
        Israeli Atmos and Czech Danes. And ATGM Chrysanthemums worked up to a maximum of 3 km ((
        In general, your technique is a complete disappointment. No fools.
        https://www.google.com/amp/s/ria.ru/amp/20181214/1547971175.html
        1. sivuch
          sivuch 22 November 2020 10: 24
          +4
          In general, your technique is a complete disappointment. No fools.
          You have very dubious information.
          To begin with, I would like to confirm at least the presence of Chrysanthemums in Armenia.
          1. Crimean partisan 1974
            Crimean partisan 1974 22 November 2020 12: 27
            +1
            In general, your technique is a complete disappointment. No fools .... how so without fools .... just the same with fools and in large numbers. ... and the very main reason for such talk in NKR is the lack of specialists as such and the complete inaction of the Armenian Armed Forces ... that's all ..... give the Armenians your merkavas hypothetically, "iron domes" and "iron fists" and spikes. it would be the same but worse .... there were no specialists from the word at all .... and vice versa. in confirmation of their words .... the massacre in the Donbas, with the correct use of MANPADS, was pretty well done by the Air Force of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, so that the Air Force no longer mattered when cooking boilers. and only the suspension of the DB in the Donbass saved the Banderlian Armed Forces from a fatal defeat ... that's how it is .... in the actions of Armenia it was generally seen that they did not need the NKR ... that's the whole truth
        2. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 22 November 2020 11: 51
          +4
          Quote: Yujanin
          An example of this is that Israeli missile defense systems intercepted the other two Iskander over Baku.


          Oh, two already? Will there be evidence or what? Everything sucks !? No problem. Only how desirable something more serious than an empty statement.
          Starting from when there was a strike, ending with those who provided the interception, and a photo of the wreckage.
    3. Bulgarian
      Bulgarian 21 November 2020 20: 28
      +9
      I have already written here missiles, both anti-aircraft and operational-tactical missiles, are subject to adjustment. This is not a grenade, pulled the pin and threw it.
      1. Cyril G ...
        Cyril G ... 21 November 2020 20: 45
        15
        The rockets have a limited shelf life of 15 years. After which they must undergo a major overhaul with the replacement of solid fuel engines and warheads. And the complex itself is being adjusted, if the sclerosis does not let me down, there should be an adjustment machine as part of the air defense system. As everyone understands, the Armenian Wasps did not undergo repair and modernization, the ammunition load was not repaired.
    4. deniso
      deniso 21 November 2020 20: 31
      0
      It is not enough to launch a rocket at a target. It is necessary to reconnoiter this goal, determine and give coordinates. For what purposes were these missiles launched? Coordinates on a map of two hundred on a snail were given?
    5. Vadim237
      Vadim237 21 November 2020 20: 36
      +3
      Wasn't Elbrus rocket an hour long?
      1. Cyril G ...
        Cyril G ... 21 November 2020 21: 17
        0
        Elbrus was there.
    6. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 21 November 2020 20: 58
      0
      The Internet about Armenians on Kapustin Yar is not aware of it, and for some reason it gives a link all the time that S-300V air defense missile systems from Gyumri, 102 military bases of the RF Armed Forces shoot every year
    7. Garris199
      Garris199 21 November 2020 22: 27
      0
      Where they wanted, they got there.
    8. ism_ek
      ism_ek 21 November 2020 22: 43
      +1
      Quote: voyaka uh
      Instead of KVO 10 m showed KVO 300 m.

      10 m is when using glonass or optical seeker. An optical seeker requires aerial photographs in the visible and infrared spectrum. The Armenians apparently did not have them.
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 21 November 2020 23: 43
        0
        Does Iskander have an optical seeker? I thought it was radar. Which opens at the last kilometer during the vertical fall.
  9. deniso
    deniso 21 November 2020 20: 19
    -1
    I do not know what exploded there in the 2nd second. but the rocket that launched vertically, albeit along a strange trajectory, but obviously hit something - a bunch of large fragments got there after the explosion. although with such quality and from such a distance one can only guess what exactly happened there
  10. Bulgarian
    Bulgarian 21 November 2020 20: 24
    21
    In the USSR Armed Forces, each air defense missile system was supposed to conduct live firing every 2 years. I doubt that the Armenians did this, and they do not have polygons for this. And we were apparently embarrassed to ask. A SAM "Osa AKM", despite its age of release, an excellent complex with the ability to use. 30 years ago I intercepted Grada missiles at times despite their speed and EPR. What I personally took part in.
    1. farm2009
      farm2009 21 November 2020 20: 35
      -11 qualifying.
      SAM "Osa AKM" is an absolutely outdated crap that has no right to exist in a modern army. This is a fact confirmed in Syria and Karabakh. Or will we deny it until we are personally burned in them?
      1. Bulgarian
        Bulgarian 21 November 2020 20: 49
        14
        Of course "TOP" which replaced "Wasp" is better. But until he replaced the "Wasp" everywhere, it may also work. This is far from crap. And the US will not be burned, provided that Disguise, tactics, interaction, etc. are used correctly.
        1. farm2009
          farm2009 21 November 2020 21: 16
          -16 qualifying.
          Quote: Bulgarian
          And the US will not be burned, provided that the Disguise, tactics, interaction, etc. are used correctly.

          Do you guarantee that there will be the correct disguise, tactics, interaction? Yes, and this most likely will not help, because the 1980 complex, it does not have enough range and height to hit the target, the radar is old, and the protection from electronic warfare is probably weak.
          1. sivuch
            sivuch 22 November 2020 10: 28
            +1
            The radar is old, and I suppose the protection from electronic warfare is weak.
            What kind of radar - and then there are several of them on the BM, and what is the noise immunity - the interference is also different?
      2. Cyril G ...
        Cyril G ... 21 November 2020 20: 51
        12
        If the Armenians had repaired the ammunition for the Os, they would have bought new missiles that provide long range and height of target destruction, would lead them through the modern Tetraeder - the Orbiters and Bayraktars would have ended even with the Wasps in a week ...




        However, for this, it is necessary that firing is carried out annually, the restoration of the technical readiness of the complexes is ensured, and the storage of missiles in proper manner is ensured. Well, etc. etc.
        In the round TPK there is a new T382 SAM, similar in range and launch height to the 9M335 SAM.
        1. farm2009
          farm2009 21 November 2020 21: 26
          +1
          The conversation is about the Wasp AKM. SAM T382 is a Ukrainian missile, do you think they will share?
        2. Nikolaevich I
          Nikolaevich I 21 November 2020 22: 57
          +6
          Quote: Cyril G ...
          In the round TPK there is a new T382 SAM, similar in range and launch height to the 9M335 SAM.

          SAM 9M335 (SAM "Pantsir-S"), after all, is already an outdated rocket! It has long been replaced by the 57E6E missile ... This missile can still be compared to the T382 ... It is disgusting that the T382 is considered a "Belarusian-Ukrainian" missile ... but is produced in Ukraine! Still, the T38 Stilet air defense missile system is in many ways a different complex, despite the external resemblance to the Wasp-AKM! As in such cases it is said: Better to buy a new one than to "repair" the old one!
        3. Azimuth
          Azimuth 22 November 2020 00: 23
          +2
          Azerbaijan was the customer and sponsor of this modernization.
          So, there is no need to talk about the implementation of such modernization of the Armenian complexes by Belarus. And the Belarusians and Azerbaijanis have big WTO contracts, for the sake of the Armenians they will not risk them.
    2. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 21 November 2020 20: 54
      +9
      Quote: Bulgarian
      A SAM "Osa AKM", despite its prescription of release, an excellent complex with ability to apply.


      ability to apply are keywords.
    3. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 21 November 2020 21: 16
      +7
      Quote: Bulgarian
      Wasp AKM "despite its prescription of release, an excellent complex with the ability to use.

      I was also honored to read how, back in Soviet times, the anti-missile properties of the Osa-AKM air defense system were tested! They turned out to be quite satisfactory! So, for example, in some exercises when the enemy tried to attack the convoy with air-to-ground missiles, all the missiles were shot down ...
  11. Well done
    Well done 21 November 2020 20: 33
    13
    Bought in Jordan is not clear what. How it was stored there is unclear. What did the Armenians do with the Wasp, modified it? And 30-40 years for an air defense system is not old age. Let's recall the F-117 shot down by the Neva in 99. There was a desire and a head on my shoulders. My opinion is that the Armenians set foot, negligence, and in Russian the name is shorter, but more capacious ... There are more questions than answers.
  12. seregin-s1
    seregin-s1 21 November 2020 20: 53
    15
    There was an incident in my life. I stood as an understudy of the watch on the project 1135. We handed over K-2. They shot at a target, which was dropped by parachute from the plane by the Osa-M complex. On the chassis, in addition to those who were supposed to have five more staff. The rocket came off the guide, flew about three hundred meters and turned around. Everyone's heart skipped a beat. Then she turned around and went on target. After a pause, they called the division commander on loud and started yelling at him. I really liked his answer. What the hell am I to you, Baron Munchausen? Target hit! He was still almost 2 meters tall and stood with his head bowed on the chassis. Then they began to laugh, the launch was counted.
    1. K-36
      K-36 21 November 2020 22: 03
      +2
      seregin-s1 They were shooting at a target, which was dropped by parachute from the plane by the Osa-M complex.
      Sergey, put a plus for the content part of the post (but only after he figured out recourse ).
      Well, couldn’t it be possible to draw up the proposal immediately in a clear form: "[b] Shot with the Osa-M complex
      on a target that was dropped from an airplane by parachute "
      [/ b]?
      No, well, I figured it out in the end, I hope that other readers too. And so in honor of Saturday drinks
      1. seregin-s1
        seregin-s1 22 November 2020 00: 02
        +1
        Essays have not been written since 1984, so sorry. And how not to understand the phrase .. on the target, which was dropped by parachute from the plane .. I don't understand.
  13. agoran
    agoran 21 November 2020 20: 58
    11
    Honestly, the word is funny.
    Buy "someone else's" weapons, do not check, do not study, do not upgrade.
    Hmm, they are somewhat reminiscent of the descendants of the ancient Sumerians.
    And this nation positions itself as the most ancient and wisest?
    1. Ratmir_Ryazan
      Ratmir_Ryazan 21 November 2020 21: 43
      +8
      And you try to look from the other side - Pashinyan is a traitor and he deliberately surrendered Karabakh and deliberately bought Su-30 without air-to-air missiles and old air defense systems that even Turkish UAVs could not technically reach at altitude.

      This is how Pashinyan deceived the whole people, promising them a sweet life.

      As a result, the Armenians did not live better and lost Karabakh, for which the Armenian people gave so many lives.

      So, there is nothing funny here, the cunning and meanness of the West and its agents knows no boundaries.
      1. Well done
        Well done 21 November 2020 22: 32
        +2
        It is logical. Where is the world heading? ..
      2. Stock
        Stock 22 November 2020 09: 39
        -1
        Well, I don't believe in these stories about buying a Su-30 without ammunition, this is complete crap. There is one of two things: 1 they were scared to use for some reason, 2 these aircraft do not belong to Armenians
        1. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 22 November 2020 12: 05
          +2
          Most likely the first. As for the second part, there is a nuance - Pashik in the 18th banned the replacement of Russian aircraft in Eribuni, well, just like the Kiev eccentrics at one time. And therefore, to this day, Eribuni flies on the MiG-29 9-13 of the Soviet release. The last Soviet-built combat MiG-29s in our Air Force.
  14. Bulgarian
    Bulgarian 21 November 2020 21: 12
    +9
    Note. Since the days of the USSR, it has been accepted that if a unit is rearmed with a new air defense system, then until it has conducted positive live fires at the range, the complex is not accepted. I was a witness when the first regiment on Emba (test site), re-equipping the "TOP", sat for almost a year until he and the breeders got the desired result. And the Armenians bought the complexes and how and where they checked them.
  15. agoran
    agoran 21 November 2020 21: 18
    +6
    The Serbs shot down two zooper-duper stealths with old Soviet missiles (one confirmed, the other sat down on the emergency gang).
    Here the th blacars did not win, well, there is only one option about hands that are not sharpened.
    1. Ratmir_Ryazan
      Ratmir_Ryazan 21 November 2020 21: 40
      -6
      Serbs shot down two zooper-duper stealths with old Soviet missiles


      What are only two? Write 10 stealths shot down by the Serbs. There is nothing to feel sorry for them))).
      1. agoran
        agoran 21 November 2020 21: 52
        +1
        Do you have plaster cast on your hands?
        Читаем:https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D1%80%D1%83%D1%88%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B5_%D0%B1%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%B1%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B4%D0%B8%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B2%D1%89%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B0_F-117_%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%B4_%D0%91%D1%83%D0%B4%D0%B6%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B2%D1%86%D0%B0%D0%BC%D0%B8
      2. sivuch
        sivuch 22 November 2020 10: 34
        0
        Ratmir_Ryazan
        Yesterday, 21: 40
        What are only two? Write 10 stealths shot down by the Serbs. There is nothing to feel sorry for them))
        because really 2. More precisely - 1 was shot down, which everyone knows, the second, a month later, was damaged, but got to Aviano a / b. The degree of damage is unknown from insignificant to irrevocable, at least - in that conflict he was no longer involved
        1. Ratmir_Ryazan
          Ratmir_Ryazan 22 November 2020 20: 57
          0
          If there is no documentary evidence - a photo, video of a damaged US aircraft, then talk about it too !!!

          I can also say that they shot down 100 stealths, only they all fell on the territory of other states and no one saw it)))
          1. sivuch
            sivuch 22 November 2020 22: 32
            +1
            documentary evidence of the second goblin was
            1. Ratmir_Ryazan
              Ratmir_Ryazan 22 November 2020 22: 37
              0
              documentary evidence of the second goblin was


              And where are they? I have never seen it.
              1. sivuch
                sivuch 22 November 2020 22: 46
                +1
                and looking? No.
                https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/f-117-losses.htm#:~:text=One%20F%2D117%20fighter%20was,conferred%20by%20the%20F%2D117A.
                After the F-117A was shot down in Kosovo and a second was damaged, Navy EA-6B Prowlers jamming aircraft accompanied all F-117A and B-2 aircraft.
                enough? this is the first link i found
                1. Ratmir_Ryazan
                  Ratmir_Ryazan 22 November 2020 22: 54
                  0
                  Why do I need a link to someone else's writing ?! Is there a photo of a damaged aircraft? If not, then there is nothing to invent.
                  1. sivuch
                    sivuch 23 November 2020 08: 58
                    +1
                    First, not someone else's, but quite a serious organization. And secondly, it was possible to write in a simpler way - I do not want to believe it, because it contradicts my picture of the universe. And therefore I put forward obviously unrealizable requirements.
                    In short, the damage to the second goblin is an undeniable fact, and if you do not want to believe it, then this is only your problem.
    2. Andrei Nikolaevich
      Andrei Nikolaevich 21 November 2020 21: 49
      +1
      So the Serbs! Compare .... (you know further)
    3. farm2009
      farm2009 21 November 2020 21: 53
      +1
      During the operation, in 78 days, NATO aircraft made 35 sorties. On June 219, 15, the Chief of the General Staff of the FRY Dragolyub Oidanich announced that by this time the Air Force and Air Defense of the country had destroyed 1999 aircraft, 61 helicopters, 7 unmanned aerial vehicles and 30 cruise missiles. (In 238, Yugoslavia's Ministry of Defense revised its numbers and announced the destruction of only 2000 aircraft (including one F-31), 117 helicopters, 6 unmanned aerial vehicles, and approximately 11 cruise missiles.) Do you think this result suits us?
      1. Ratmir_Ryazan
        Ratmir_Ryazan 22 November 2020 01: 28
        0
        You need to believe facts, not statements!

        And in fact, the Serbs confirmed the shooting down of only F-16 and F-117, and also tore off one A-10 engine with the explosion of a MANPADS missile.

        All by airplanes !!! And everything else is empty useless propaganda.
  16. Ratmir_Ryazan
    Ratmir_Ryazan 21 November 2020 21: 38
    +1
    Pashinyan is a traitor, he did everything on purpose to surrender Nagorno-Karabakh to Azerbaijan, so that later, without territorial claims, he could drag Armenia into NATO and the EU.

    Pashinyan and his people in the Armenian Defense Ministry knew very well the performance characteristics of Turkish UAVs, and that is why they purchased the Wasps-AKM, and not the same Pantsiri at least, or similar systems of the western model.

    The defenders of Karabakh were doomed in advance, their blood was on the conscience of Pashinyan and the high command of the Armenian Defense Ministry.
    1. Vitaly161
      Vitaly161 21 November 2020 22: 42
      +3
      with proper modernization and trained crews, the Wasps could easily resist UAVs, but what is shown in the video is a circus of the lame and humpbacked (in fact, it's a pity for the guys, they did not have the proper skills and equipment in this war) and I think such cases are not isolated , but massive, that's actually the root cause of the defeat, lame air defense, almost complete lack of control over the airspace, as a result of which the arrival of anything from the air
  17. Andrei Nikolaevich
    Andrei Nikolaevich 21 November 2020 21: 48
    -1
    Voroshilov arrows ...
  18. yfast
    yfast 21 November 2020 21: 58
    +1
    Quote: OgnennyiKotik
    Classic. Either the air defense is old, or the operators are crooked. Emphasize as appropriate.

    Analog air defense will not correct operator errors.
    1. Vitaly161
      Vitaly161 21 November 2020 22: 43
      +3
      um, where did you see "analog air defense"))?
  19. Lara Croft
    Lara Croft 21 November 2020 22: 06
    +1
    Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
    The defenders of Karabakh were doomed in advance, their blood was on the conscience of Pashinyan and the high command of the Armenian Defense Ministry.

    Of course, because for 1/4 century, Armenia has not recognized the independence of the NKR, let alone a part of its territory ...
    Pashinyan and his people in the Armenian Defense Ministry knew very well the performance characteristics of Turkish UAVs, and that is why they purchased the Wasps-AKM, and not the same Pantsiri at least, or similar systems of the western model.

    Fear God, Pashinyan has been in power for only two years and he is a "little magpie-journalist", his task was to break military-political and economic ties with the Russian Federation and conduct an anti-Russian foreign and domestic policy ... according to the results of which Armenia had to leave the CSTO , EAC and throw our military out of Armenia (as Georgia and Azerbaijan did before) ...
    Now, following the results of the war, Pashinyan will do his tasks faster, he, like the entire Armenian people, is a "victim" of "the betrayal of the RF because of which Armenia lost to the NKR (in Ukraine the RF is an" aggressor ", in Armenia she is a" traitor ")" ...
    The question is, what was the "Karabakh clan" that has been in power in Armenia for the last 20 years, how did it prepare the country and its armed forces for this war?
    Pashinyan is a traitor, he did everything on purpose to surrender Nagorno-Karabakh to Azerbaijan, so that later, without territorial claims, he could drag Armenia into NATO and the EU.

    Pashinyan is a political traitor, it is unlikely that his plans included a lost war with Azerbaijan, he was used, like Saakashvili once in Georgia ...
    .... territorial claims are not an obstacle to joining NATO or the CSTO ...
    The EU doesn’t shine for Armenia, there are too many beggars to accept there anyway ...
    1. Vitaly161
      Vitaly161 21 November 2020 22: 37
      +5
      how did the Russian Federation betray Armenia? officially, the Armenian army remained in the barracks, as it is not officially xs, and the Russian Federation is not obliged to help someone to fight on foreign territory, one thing is certain, the NKR issue had to be resolved, Pashinyan did not want to (give 7 districts and forget about the war) well, now the area of ​​the NKR is even smaller than it could have been, dba and something more or less modern from the air defense (Thor seems to be) The Armenians drove only at the end of the war, when Shusha was already surrendered almost without a fight, but the question is what the NKR army and the Armenian General Staff were engaged for 20 years, it is not clear, the purchased Wasps were not combat-ready, and I think the crews were also not trained, but after the existing air defense was cut out, everything was essentially decided
      1. Cyril G ...
        Cyril G ... 21 November 2020 23: 38
        +3
        Quote: Vitaliy161
        But the question of what the NKR army and the Armenian General Staff was engaged in for 20 years, it is not clear, the purchased Wasps were not combat-ready, and I think the crews were also not trained, well, after they cut out the existing air defense,


        For a quarter of a century it was possible to bury itself in the ground so that no miserable dozens of drones would have done anything .... But the "Karabakh clan" did not even want to think about it, but wasted money on itself. They won that war because of the multitude of Armenians - officers, warrant officers and the rank and file of quite Soviet training. And the Azerbaijanis lost because a real Baku citizen can only be a cook-cook or a baker in the service, or a kapter. In general, more than a quarter of a century has passed, and if the level of the Armenian armed formations only fell, their opponents, on the contrary, learned. And their Soviet equipment, unlike ............, has completely undergone modernization - as, for example, several C-125 divisions, etc. etc.
    2. Ratmir_Ryazan
      Ratmir_Ryazan 22 November 2020 01: 50
      +1
      Of course, because for 1/4 century, Armenia has not recognized the independence of the NKR, let alone a part of its territory ...



      Armenia understood that the legal recognition of the entire captured territory in Nagorno-Karabakh would bring nothing but problems. And they had nowhere to hurry with it.

      Although, of course, they delayed the solution of this problem.

      Pashinyan has been in power for only two years


      At the same time, he managed to buy the Su-30, but did not manage to buy air-to-air missiles for them, he managed to buy the Osa air defense system, but did not have time to modernize them, he managed to buy the TOP SAM system, but did not manage to send them to Karabakh.

      Who are you protecting? Pashinyan deliberately surrendered Karabakh and sent its defenders to the slaughter.

      territorial claims are not an obstacle to joining NATO or the CSTO ...


      Territorial claims are an obstacle to joining NATO, besides, Turkey had to be somehow oiled. After Pashinyan gave up Karabakh, Turkey will not be against Armenia's joining NATO.


      the Armenian people are "victims" of "the betrayal of the RF because of which Armenia lost to the NKR (in Ukraine the RF is an" aggressor ", in Armenia it is a" traitor ")" ...


      Russia did not betray anyone. Russia has always considered Nagorno-Karabakh a part of Azerbaijan and offered a compromise solution to this problem.

      And Russia should not fight for Nagorno-Karabakh, but Armenia should have, but did not.

      And Russia is not to blame for the problems of Ukraine, Ukraine was split by the same people who killed a hundred of their own citizens on the Maidan in order to get a formal reason to overthrow the elected president.

      And of course, no one will be allowed into the EU, not Ukrainians who are not Armenians, maximum tourist visa-free, that is, in fact, work as illegal immigrants to make them work and not fulfill any obligations to them, but Ukrainian and Armenian pro-Western politicians will present this as a great blessing for citizens.
      1. Lara Croft
        Lara Croft 22 November 2020 02: 01
        +1
        Ratmir_RyazanTerritorial Claims Prevent NATO Accession

        A wordless statement, neither in the NATO Charter, nor in any other documents about it ...
      2. Lara Croft
        Lara Croft 22 November 2020 02: 17
        +2
        Ratmir_RyazanArmenia understood that the legal recognition of the entire captured territory in Nagorno-Karabakh would bring nothing but problems.

        Those. Armenia was scared of possible problems, both political and economic ...
        But the Russian Federation, including Crimea and Sevastopol as a result of the referendum, was not afraid of them .... so why on earth should the Russian Federation (in the opinion of many, if not most of the Armenians) have to fight for the NKR, which was not recognized by Armenia itself?
        Although, of course, they delayed the solution of this problem.

        Well now, they definitely have nowhere to rush ...
        At the same time, he managed to buy the Su-30, but did not manage to buy air-to-air missiles for them, he managed to buy the Osa air defense system, but did not have time to modernize them, he managed to buy the TOP SAM system, but did not manage to send them to Karabakh.
        Who are you protecting? Pashinyan deliberately surrendered Karabakh and sent its defenders to the slaughter.

        Why should I defend the "sorosenka", just everyone should bear targeted responsibility ... purchases of В and ВТ for the Armed Forces are not dealt with by presidents or prime ministers, but by the relevant departments, which give their opinions on this issue ...
        And he did not send anyone to slaughter, officially Armenia did not send its Armed Forces to the NKR, only volunteers from Armenia fought there ...
        And legally he could not send them there, because The NKR is not recognized by Armenia, and the Decree on its recognition should have been approved by the Parliament, the Parliament of Armenia itself did not come up with such an initiative ...
        After Pashinyan gave up Karabakh, Turkey will not be against Armenia's joining NATO.

        Here is how much joy for the Armenians ... if the Armenians throw our military out of Armenia, we will still be on the fate of the Armenians, and the Armenians and Azerbaijanis themselves will face massive deportations from the Russian Federation ...
  20. agoran
    agoran 21 November 2020 22: 13
    0
    Under the leadership of Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu, an interdepartmental commission arrived in Yerevan to discuss the implementation of the trilateral statement on Nagorno-Karabakh, including humanitarian aspects, TASS reports.
    We'll see tomorrow.
  21. alekpro2010
    alekpro2010 21 November 2020 22: 29
    0
    The complex, the OSA, in principle, is unsuitable for combating drones, however, as with most air threats, which is modernized, which is not modernized, it has a very long reaction time, about 35 seconds, the enemy will enter the affected area, strike and leave, and the complex will all process the data. The complex is, by any means, grandfather.
    1. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 22 November 2020 00: 00
      +5
      Quote: alekpro2010
      that modernized, that not modernized, it has a very long reaction time, about 35 seconds, the enemy will enter the affected area,


      You obviously haven't tried to read something serious. Clear.
      So the most ancient Wasp had a reaction time from 16 to 26 seconds. The reaction time of the air defense system is primarily due to the working time of the PSA. The last naval Wasp-MA2 (model 1987)
      they were put on a little ships; they had a reaction time of no more than 5-10 seconds, taking into account the working time of the guidance drives. What reaction time Osa-T has, I kind of don't know. But I guess it's minimal. But hardly more than 2-4 seconds, taking into account the guidance time of the launcher along the horizon.

      By the way, on the old naval OSE-M, the PSA occupied as many as 7 cabinets, and really was thoughtful, on the OSE-MA2, a third of the cabinet ... Draw conclusions.
      1. sivuch
        sivuch 22 November 2020 10: 22
        +1
        Cyril, I have already given the Wasp-AKM reaction time blunder somewhere. It depends on many factors.
        1. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 22 November 2020 11: 29
          0
          Well, I was more focused on the sea. But there are no fundamental differences, except for the rate of fire of the launcher.
        2. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 22 November 2020 12: 08
          0
          By the way, do you remember the maximum height to which the 9M33M missile defense system reaches? Not the upper limit of the affected area, namely the maximum height.
          1. sivuch
            sivuch 22 November 2020 13: 12
            +1
            If you mean where, in principle, it can fly, it again depends on many factors. Say, if a miss on a target at a distance of about 1-1.5 km, then the missile goes to self-destruction vertically and can gain about 10 km
            1. Cyril G ...
              Cyril G ... 22 November 2020 13: 14
              +1
              Why, theoretically, depending on the distance to the target, there is a chance to hit the Wasp target at an altitude of 8 km. I'm wrong? The probability of the truth will be small as I understand it.
    2. sivuch
      sivuch 22 November 2020 10: 19
      +1
      And here you are wrong, both with the reaction time and with the factors. its defining.
      Firstly, 25-26 seconds, and secondly, it is in the version of a lone wasp BM on a slope, not knowing where the gift can come from.
  22. Avior
    Avior 21 November 2020 23: 32
    +5
    In the article, everything is mixed into one heap.
    ... The Osa-AKM air defense system of the NKR defense army was unlikely to undergo modernization, which was announced back in 2015.

    And what side to this Pashinyan, who became prime minister in 2018, and Osu was bought from Jordan even later?
    So they would ask the one under whom these Wasps were supposedly modernized.
    But they are silent about him. Why? Yes, everything is just in Armenia louder than anyone else screams about the allegedly wrong purchase of the son-in-law of that very person from the Karabakh clan, who was before Pashinyan, and who should be asked for failure both in the military sphere in Armenia and in the economy in the first place.
    in fact, the deal was very profitable, all 35 wasps were bought for 27 million for all together, that's 600 thousand apiece.
    For this money it was possible to buy as much as half of the Buk, the money compared to the real price is just a penny.
    Belarusians Osu were offered for 10.3 million per piece, upgrades - additionally.
    In reality, Wasp strengthened the air defense against. Azerbaijani helicopters from attack aircraft, as a result, in practice, the Azerbaijanis practically did not use them.
    And it was worth a penny.
    The main problem is that the economy of Armenia is killed, they do not have and did not have money for the purchase of effective weapons, like Azerbaijan.
    Russia gave a targeted loan for the Su-30 - good, at least something has appeared.
    Economically backward Armenia did not have any opportunities against Azerbaijan, it is high time to understand this.
    The military sphere always originates from the economy.
    1. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 22 November 2020 00: 52
      +1
      Quote: Avior
      Belarusians Osu were offered for 10.3 million per piece, upgrades - additionally.


      How much would an upgrade on Tetraeder cost?
      1. Avior
        Avior 22 November 2020 01: 04
        +1
        Belarus asked, as far as I know, 650 thousand for AKM or 1.1 million for AK.
        I don't know the degree of modernization.
        1. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 22 November 2020 01: 35
          +2
          That is, the question of finances was quite resolvable, as I understand it, even for Armenians.
    2. Lara Croft
      Lara Croft 22 November 2020 00: 57
      +2
      Quote: Avior
      And what side to this Pashinyan, which became prime minister in 2018
      The main problem is that the economy of Armenia is killed, they do not have and did not have money for the purchase of effective weapons, like Azerbaijan.
      Russia gave a targeted loan for the Su-30 - good, at least something has appeared.
      Economically backward Armenia did not have any opportunities against Azerbaijan, it is high time to understand this.
      The military sphere always originates from the economy.

      You are partly right about the economy ...
      However, in order to prepare the NKR in engineering and technical terms in 1/4 century, a lot of funds are not needed ...
      The NKR Armed Forces had even more PA tanks and guns than the Armenian Armed Forces ...
      There were no minefields and other obstacles in the tank-hazardous directions, no tank and artillery ambushes were used, no camouflage was used, no false positions and objects were created, there was no military air defense at all ... the territory of the NKR was not divided into sectors and zones of responsibility. By pre-created stocks of weapons, tactical and operational reserves were not organized ... the Armenians did not carry out raiding operations in the rear of the Azerbaijani army ...
      1. Avior
        Avior 22 November 2020 01: 16
        +4
        I just see Pashinyan's charges specifically.
        But no one had done this either before him.
        Many of the above, again, need money, but Armenia did not have it.
        The last relatively recent skirmish was with the use of helicopters from the Azerbaijani side, it is clear that now a similar was expected.
        But, to be honest, this is one of the first cases of such an effective use of UAVs, before that the Turks did not have such efficiency.
        I just want to draw your attention to the fact that it is strange to blame all the bigwigs on Pashinyan, problems in the economy and the military sphere in Armenia were systemic and grew for thirty years, of which Pashinyan was prime minister for two years
        1. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 22 November 2020 01: 39
          +2
          Quote: Avior
          before that, the Turks did not have such efficiency.


          And what about the Turks? If the Orbiters, undetected by the old Wasps, carried out quite successful reconnaissance, the Harpies dealt strikes on important targets. From closed positions, Spikes were struck at targets detected by the UAV ... You are aware of whose work it is supposed to be? Orbiter, Spike, Harpy?
      2. Petro_tut
        Petro_tut 22 November 2020 11: 26
        +2
        However, in order to prepare the NKR in engineering and technical terms in 1/4 century, a lot of funds are not needed ...

        Excuse me, have you seen a lot of Armenians on Saturday nights? They will not work for free, that is, for nothing, but they did not allocate money for this, from which engineering training can we talk?
    3. Azimuth
      Azimuth 22 November 2020 01: 07
      +5
      And the war itself is too heavy for a state with a weak economy.
      Otherwise, you are right, everyone makes a scapegoat out of Pashinyan, and although he is a freak, with the letter M, he did not take part in all this nonsense. Armenia was plundered by Kocharian and Sargsyan. In addition, an ordinary situation occurred with the Armenians for myth-makers, having entered most of the regions of Karabakh on our shoulders, they began to believe in their own kind of exclusivity, in their completely absent military traditions. Running around with a peace man to fight, to cut, this is one thing, but to fight with a regular army, the more difficult it is to a large extent equipped with the most modern technology, but also trained according to the last word, this is already another parsley. If the Armenians knew how to fight, they would never have ended up in the Transcaucasus and here in the North Caucasus, and would still live in their own state.
      Azerbaijanis certainly deserved respect for their approach to the preparation for war and the very hostilities. Well, it is worth noting that they were the first and only ones in the CIS a few years ago to bet on UAVs, including drums, they were the first to massively use kamikaze drones during the exacerbation of 2016, on the face of both effective military planning and the effectiveness of military spending. Plus a reasonable policy, when we worked very fruitfully with the Israelis, and not with the Turks, although cooperation and relations with them are in the foreground, but the Turks simply did not have and do not have such technologies and weapons, they prepared the most possible units of the Azerbaijani special forces, which acted on the edge, but no more.
      Industry and economy - following the news, drew attention to reports in the Azerbaijani media about record cotton harvests. I ran my eyes through the news archives and saw that the growth of the cultivated areas for cotton coincides with the beginning of the construction of gunpowder factories by the Serbs in Azerbaijan. Here we must remember that in our country and in the West, whose technology the Serbs use, there are different technologies and sources for obtaining ultrapure cellulose for gunpowder.
      And so on, that is, planning and coordination of everything in the economy and in politics, for specific government tasks.
      1. Avior
        Avior 22 November 2020 03: 10
        +1
        UAVs were used in various conflicts in conjunction with other types of weapons, but in order to rely on them purely with such efficiency, this did not manifest itself so clearly before.
        Of course, UAVs were used earlier in conflicts, including in the Donbas, by Turkey and others, but they did not have such efficiency when relying on a purely UAV, as it was manifested in this situation.
        Again, the example of Israel, for example, is not entirely suitable, except for technology, the level of training and motivation is also important, and the Israeli army is one of the most motivated and efficient armies in the world, what they would have done, in the opinion of the Armenians, would not necessarily have worked from Azerbaijan.
        And in 2016 in Karabakh they did not show such a level of efficiency, although they were used even in conjunction with aviation.
        Perhaps that is why the Armenians were more afraid of the use of helicopters and attack aircraft, and they prepared more against them.
        And imagine, they would prepare measures against the UAV, and Azerbaijan would use helicopters and attack aircraft en masse.
        Again, the stake on electronic warfare against UAVs frankly did not justify itself, although before that it was believed that this was an effective countermeasure.
        We are the ones who are strong in afterthought.

        Of course, it is better to have weapons for all occasions, but military capabilities start with the economy. And here are the questions for the Karabakh clan.
        1. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 22 November 2020 11: 35
          0
          Quote: Avior
          We are the ones who are strong in afterthought.


          And where is the afterthought to the fact that the Wasps, for example, still had to be modernized, run the ammunition through overhaul and buy new missiles, and even in Ukraine. Any doubts that you would sell the T382?
          1. Avior
            Avior 22 November 2020 11: 38
            +1
            For this, money was needed, but Armenia did not have it.
            1. Cyril G ...
              Cyril G ... 22 November 2020 11: 40
              0
              Well, they plundered all the campaign.
              "You won't sell a bull with such a mood." (c.) wassat
              1. Avior
                Avior 22 November 2020 14: 43
                0
                Pashinyan's predecessors brought the economy of Armenia to the handle, why, in fact, he came to power
        2. Azimuth
          Azimuth 22 November 2020 13: 30
          0
          Well, one can argue about the degree of motivation and mobilization of the Azerbaijani army and society. Apparently they were madly charged and the rise was general.

          Regarding the massive use of helicopters and attack aircraft. Perhaps I was mistaken, all the more I did not specifically follow, but according to my estimates, at the beginning of the war Azerbaijan had two regiments of Mi-24 / -35 attack helicopters and two regiments of Su-25 attack aircraft, plus more than a hundred Mi-8 / - transport and combat helicopters 17. By the way, regarding the latter, because of the large number of transport helicopters and the number of special forces units, seeing the training grounds for special forces, I expected, for example, a special forces landing in the rear, but in fact they preferred a different tactic. And much was different than it seemed from the outside, and from the experience of our actions in Chechnya and Ossetia / Georgia. Moreover, frankly speaking, it was done more efficiently and rationally, which is why the losses are so relatively low.
          1. Cyril G ...
            Cyril G ... 22 November 2020 17: 11
            0
            Quote: Azimuth
            therefore the losses are so comparatively low.


            And what, about three weeks ago, it seemed like there were 900 "200" unofficially counted ...

            Quote: Azimuth
            but according to my estimates, at the beginning of the war Azerbaijan had two regiments of Mi-24 / -35 attack helicopters and two regiments of Su-25 attack aircraft,


            Exactly one Su-25 squadron (19 units) and one on the MiG-29 (15 units)
      2. lelik613
        lelik613 22 November 2020 06: 26
        0
        even during the exacerbation of 2016
        The new tactics were tested. Our half-Bonapartes should also draw conclusions from what happened.
  23. Bogatyrev
    Bogatyrev 22 November 2020 01: 15
    +1
    It sucks that the real combat capabilities of this complex are unclear. And he is still in service with us.
    And I also don't understand what went wrong in the Pole-21 complex, which for 4 days completely jammed all drones in Artsakh. But then for some reason he stopped, and the last barrels of artillery were carried away from the Armenians.
  24. Konnick
    Konnick 22 November 2020 01: 36
    +2
    Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
    The defenders of Karabakh were doomed in advance, their blood was on the conscience of Pashinyan and the high command of the Armenian Defense Ministry.

    And in general, Pashinyan is an embedded Azerbaijani spy ... Well, maybe it's enough to search for an extreme.
  25. Konnick
    Konnick 22 November 2020 01: 48
    0
    Quote: Lara Croft
    There were no minefields and other obstacles in the tank-hazardous directions, no tank and artillery ambushes were used, no camouflage was used, no false positions and objects were created, there was no military air defense at all ... the territory of the NKR was not divided into sectors and zones of responsibility. By pre-created stocks of weapons, tactical and operational reserves were not organized ... the Armenians did not carry out raiding operations in the rear of the Azerbaijani army ...


    Look at the Wikimapia website, where you can familiarize yourself with the entire NKR defense system on a satellite map, with all the designations. Even if what was listed was done, nothing would have changed ... tank hazard areas? Which memoir is this?
  26. Jacket in stock
    Jacket in stock 22 November 2020 06: 03
    0
    Looks like faulty missiles.
    Either the engines are rotten from improper storage or have been hit / dropped.
    Or the control system did not pick up the rocket and the rudders began to "flap their wings."
    If the electronics fail, then it should have been identified with regular maintenance. If the matter is in the engines, then there is no way to reveal it until the moment of launch.
  27. Viktor Sergeev
    Viktor Sergeev 22 November 2020 07: 32
    +2
    Everything happens, but buying Wasp in the 21st century suggests that the Armenian military has no brain.
  28. Alex2
    Alex2 22 November 2020 07: 49
    +1
    I saw this "Osu" two years ago in Israel. How she got there is interesting.
  29. fif21
    fif21 22 November 2020 09: 43
    -1
    They also managed to miss 6 km from the Iskadera! Technology in the hands of savages is a piece of metal. hi
    1. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 22 November 2020 11: 38
      +2
      Most likely they did shoot from Elbrus or the corresponding wreckage should be revealed to the world
  30. sivuch
    sivuch 22 November 2020 10: 14
    +2
    There is information about one destroyed and several disabled BM. Disabled BM have multiple bullet holes in the antennas of the HEADLIGHTS and AKZ guidance station. There is no information about the combat readiness (serviceability) of the remaining BM. There is information that for some time they did not expose the letter of anti-aircraft guided missiles in accordance with the letter BM or they did it incorrectly, in general, you can not discuss further ...
    I will not write about the number of targets shot down by Thor
    http://otvaga2004.mybb.ru/viewtopic.php?id=2352&p=13
    writes Comrade Zhigunov, for knowledgeable people - a rather authoritative person from the Dome.
    Everything you need to know about Armenia's air defense systems.
    1. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 22 November 2020 11: 37
      0
      Quote: sivuch
      There is information about one destroyed and several disabled BM.


      Is this about Thor? Well, I saw a video with a killed BM Thor - it's just indescribable.
      1. sivuch
        sivuch 22 November 2020 13: 14
        0
        yes, torah. In general, Comrade Zhigunov is a very knowledgeable person and the discussion itself is interesting.
        1. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 22 November 2020 19: 44
          0
          Well, there, on Courage, Vitaly Ivanovich forever scoffed at me for the unenthusiastic image of being washed in relation to my father. wassat
          1. sivuch
            sivuch 22 November 2020 19: 48
            +1
            Vitaly Ivanovich - yes. he is harsh. but this does not prevent comrade Zhigunov from being a very literate and knowledgeable person
            1. Cyril G ...
              Cyril G ... 22 November 2020 20: 13
              0
              Well, I kind of read constantly and what you write on the topic, etc. Zhigunov.
              1. sivuch
                sivuch 22 November 2020 22: 40
                +1
                There is a difference . I have second-hand information, and he is an employee of the Dome. Besides, he tries to be objective. This is me about torophiles vs poncerophiles
                1. Cyril G ...
                  Cyril G ... 22 November 2020 23: 42
                  0
                  Quote: sivuch
                  This is me about torophiles vs poncerophiles


                  Well, there are flaws here and there. But here's the question - according to rumors, the Pantsyr missile defense came out two times cheaper than the Thor rocket, is that so? Why, the decision on the vertical launch of short-range missiles is not entirely correct ...
                  1. sivuch
                    sivuch 23 November 2020 09: 03
                    +1
                    All ratings are very off the ceiling. if only 2 times - is not bad at all. near Shell, the rocket was deliberately made cheaper, including through dubious, in my opinion, activities. For example, a semi-active fuse instead of the usual active one. But, most likely, the difference is 2 times - only in comparison with 331 missiles, and with 338 everything is much sadder.
                    1. Cyril G ...
                      Cyril G ... 23 November 2020 09: 18
                      0
                      I came across a figure for the 18th year - 3 million rubles for the Pantsyr missile defense system, 7 million rubles. SAM Torah ...
                      Don't you think that it is still advisable for the MD air defense system to make guided launchers?
                      1. sivuch
                        sivuch 23 November 2020 09: 34
                        +2
                        In principle, at ranges of up to 20 km, guidance errors during RK guidance are small and do not require an increase in warhead compared to a missile with a seeker. The question is the price of the GOS itself.
                      2. Cyril G ...
                        Cyril G ... 23 November 2020 10: 26
                        0
                        This is yes. On the other hand, after all, Torovskie SAMs are much more expensive than Pantsyrevskaya. Two times. And we need to have a lot of missiles in the near zone. No! Lots of. This means that it is advisable to reduce the price of missiles to zero. I'm kidding, of course, but the essence of the wish is more than clear.
  • rotfuks
    rotfuks 23 November 2020 01: 59
    +2
    The problem is not in the OSA air defense system at all. And the uniqueness of this military conflict is not in the use of drones, but in a large number of video cameras and video recordings. For comparison, look at the military chronicle of the Second World War. Japanese planes fly up to an American warship and the ship meets these planes with a flurry of anti-aircraft guns and machine guns. Watch the Soviet video chronicle. Soviet attack aircraft shoot at the German trenches and from the trenches at attack aircraft they shoot everything they can. Now we are looking at the Azeybarjan chronicle. The drone flies up to the combat positions of the Armenians and no one shoots at the drone. Flashes of anti-aircraft guns and machine guns are not visible, no one is shooting at the drone and the drone carefully chooses a target. Apparently, the Armenians at this time are sitting like Pashinyan's wife in the headquarters in front of the TV, waiting for the wunderwaffe. I have looked through many recordings of this military conflict and have not seen drone firing anywhere. Why then do Armenians need S-300 or "OSA" air defense missile systems if they are all sitting in front of the TV and nobody wants to shoot?