Military Review

The Ministry of Defense begins to introduce an unmanned reconnaissance system into the troops to detect air defense systems

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The Ministry of Defense begins to introduce an unmanned reconnaissance system into the troops to detect air defense systems

The Ministry of Defense is introducing a high-tech unmanned reconnaissance system into the troops, specializing in detecting the operation of air defense radars and anti-aircraft missile systems. This was reported by Izvestia with reference to the Ministry of Defense.


As the newspaper writes, the new unmanned reconnaissance system has already been tested by the Ground Forces in the Southern Military District, including during the Caucasus-2020 military exercises. Drones with installed software with elements of artificial intelligence were engaged in the detection of air defense radars and anti-aircraft complexes, after which they transmitted their coordinates for destruction.

As the Ministry of Defense explained, the UAV equipment detects radar radiation, determines the direction to the signal source, its approximate range and coordinates, after which the information is transmitted to the control point, or directly to the helicopter or aircraft. With the help of this system, detecting the enemy's air defense in advance, it is planned to significantly reduce the losses of combat aviation from anti-aircraft fire.

If earlier in military conflicts the conquest of air supremacy was of paramount importance, today the task of destroying the air defense system comes to the fore.

- said the ex-commander of the 4th Air Force and Air Defense Army, Lieutenant General Valery Gorbenko.

According to him, early detection of enemy air defense positions with the help of drones will allow them to strike a preemptive strike, thereby protecting their aircraft from anti-aircraft systems fire, preserving equipment, and most importantly, the lives of pilots.
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  1. Asad
    Asad 21 November 2020 15: 17
    +7
    What kind of drones? What is the radius, flight time? A military secret?
    1. Lexus
      Lexus 21 November 2020 15: 25
      -3
      All normal ones are already in full use, and the RF Ministry of Defense is just beginning to itch. hi
      1. volodimer
        volodimer 21 November 2020 16: 05
        +6
        You are asking the wrong question. We have been successfully using reconnaissance UAVs in Syria for a long time.
        And we will obviously be in the peacekeeping mission on the territory of Karabakh. But in the use of shock UAVs, there is a clear lag. As it seems to me, the point is not in the lag in the possibility of creating carriers, but apparently the point is in the lag in the creation of strike assets that these carriers should carry. We do not have high-precision and small-sized request Therefore, there is no race to create shock UAVs.
        There is simply nothing to beat. In the form-factor of missiles, we can do a lot, but in compact ammunition everything immediately rests against the absence of an appropriate radioelement base. It turns out with the necessary characteristics, but it is too heavy for the vehicles, but with what we can take off with ... There is no sense to take off.
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 21 November 2020 16: 38
          +7
          "We do not have a high-precision and small-sized one". Everything is already there
          1. volodimer
            volodimer 21 November 2020 17: 09
            -2
            I compared the CABs indicated in the video with the Turkish ones, according to the performance characteristics. It's good that we have not lagged behind in technology yet. But, the question is about the quantity. This year's exhibition recourse Again, MOGEM, but the troops were not, and are not.
            1. Vadim237
              Vadim237 21 November 2020 20: 14
              +2
              The UAV has rather modest bomb and missile load capabilities in comparison with the same Su 34 - therefore it is better to reconnoitre and use the latter with all of its arsenal. And use shock drones as an addition to counter partisans and mobile units of the enemy.
          2. JD1979
            JD1979 21 November 2020 20: 52
            -8
            Quote: Vadim237
            "We do not have a high-precision and small-sized one". Everything is already there

            So big, but believe in fairy tales / propaganda))) You have NOTHING. Orion is a stupid exhibition sample that for another twelve years (at current development rates) will be carried to all exhibitions and sooner or later will be buried. Previously, the unmanned partner Su-57 has a chance to fly.
            Do you think I'm driving a snowstorm? Well, no. For any apparatus heavier than air, to fly you need ... a bingo ENGINE! And what is our engine on Orion (oh horror) - Ukrainian))) Rotax 914. The same company that supplies engines to the Turks and Israelis) What is the likelihood in the current political conditions of supplying Ukrainian engines to Russia?))) And here many will say magic word - IMPORT SUBSTITUTION!))) Yeah, we are being replaced, we are being replaced since 2013, one office makes with APD-115T, the second makes "Agat-B" (APD-110/120). 7 years - the state program turns rubles into smoke. What does this mean? Either they steal everything and everything, or the education system, with the collapse of the USSR, began to train engineers of the wrong system that having in the information age the opportunity to get acquainted with any data on similar engines, including touch, for 7! years can not issue a working sample ...
            1. Reviews
              Reviews 21 November 2020 21: 17
              +9
              Quote: JD1979
              Orion engine (oh horror) - Ukrainian))) Rotax 914.

              Fig you are a drug addict ...
              1. JD1979
                JD1979 21 November 2020 23: 33
                -10 qualifying.
                Quote: Avis
                Fig you are a drug addict ...

                But in essence there is something to say? And then suddenly the wizard flew in and the engine became Russian, and we don't know where to put our caps in our hands.
                1. Reviews
                  Reviews 22 November 2020 07: 48
                  +1
                  Quote: JD1979
                  Quote: Avis
                  Fig you are a drug addict ...

                  But essentially have something to say?

                  Good question. Only he is addressed to you. First, ask whose Rotax-914 is.
                2. Vadim237
                  Vadim237 22 November 2020 11: 30
                  -1
                  But in essence, there is something to say? Here, judging by what you have read, there is nothing to say except for the turbidity sucked out of your finger. Orions are already in service.
            2. Sasha Minakov
              Sasha Minakov 21 November 2020 23: 57
              +4
              Hmm ... Drome. ru number 2))) You wouldn't need a censor)
            3. JD1979
              JD1979 22 November 2020 01: 00
              -4
              Quote: JD1979
              Do you think I'm driving a snowstorm? Well, no. For any apparatus heavier than air, to fly you need ... a bingo ENGINE! And what is our engine on Orion (oh horror) - Ukrainian)))

              Yes, I did, I admit. The engine is not Ukrainian, but for some reason the search engines constantly threw it onto the AviaSich page, a company that was most likely a supplier of these engines to Russia. Why not directly? Again, the European sanctions. The manufacturer itself is an Austrian company.
        2. VO3A
          VO3A 21 November 2020 18: 42
          -4
          You are asking the wrong question. We have been successfully using reconnaissance UAVs in Syria for a long time.

          Want is not harmful ! For a long time and successfully - What is it like ? For a long time, this is when a UAV flies along a programmed route and writes information to a medium, which is removed after landing, and then the information is written off and analyzed? It takes not even hours, but a day !!! And is it successful in your opinion? Did you do it in full in Syria, Libya, LDNR, Karabakh and is it successful? More precisely, have done well for a long time ! I can tell you how it should be!
          The most offensive thing is that for a long time we have everything for the successful use of UAVs and the organization of Combat Information Systems using UAVs. We have no mind for stupid uncles with the letter "D" in the leadership of our army ....
          Here is an example of lies and tales from an article with a link to an MO representative. More precisely, the lies of the representative of the Ministry of Defense:
          As the Ministry of Defense explained, the UAV equipment detects radar radiation, determines the direction to the signal source, its approximate range and coordinates, after which the information is transmitted to the control point, or directly to the helicopter or plane.

          Which control point information is transmitted ? On the one that the uncles from MO did for show? In combat conditions, there will be no such point, it is not provided for in the troops ... We generally do not have new advanced structures for conducting modern combat operations in real time ... This time?
          . after which the information is transmitted to the control point, or directly to a helicopter or plane. And how is it transmitted? What do we have on board an aircraft or helicopter systems that are connected to the UAV and exchange information in real time? Fraudulent tales for stupid ordinary people ?!
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. ANB
              ANB 21 November 2020 22: 56
              0
              ... this is a very huge job

              Yes, not so huge if experienced specialists are engaged in this.
              And you don't even need to compose from scratch, you can study ready-made implementations, choose suitable ones and adapt.
        3. malyvalv
          malyvalv 22 November 2020 02: 26
          0
          We do not have shock strikes because we have something to cover anything to a depth of 100 km. Just give me the coordinates. And knowing the exact coordinates, the Grad or Tornado packet is much more effective than 50 kg super-precise pukalki. Although it is possible to cover with something high-precision if circumstances require the type of a bunker or an armored vehicle.
          I mean, having drone UAVs may be good, but this is definitely not the first need.
      2. Hermit21
        Hermit21 21 November 2020 18: 01
        -1
        Who is in the circle of normal people using RTR UAVs?
        1. VO3A
          VO3A 21 November 2020 19: 05
          +2
          At our forum there was only one person who was associated with the use of UAVs in Syria ... He fully confirmed my assumptions about the "cave" level of real use of UAVs in our army ... Our army is not ready, more precisely, it does not know how to conduct modern hostilities ... This is fully manifested in all local conflicts where we are present in one way or another ... We are in complete ass in these matters ... Why is it not clear? We have everything, there is no understanding and desire for "brilliant" leadership ....
    2. OgnennyiKotik
      OgnennyiKotik 21 November 2020 15: 32
      -4
      Orlan-10 is usually used in such systems.
      1. Jacket in stock
        Jacket in stock 21 November 2020 16: 39
        +2
        The eagle is small and has only optics, and even then not the most powerful.
    3. halpat
      halpat 22 November 2020 07: 51
      +2
      at one time they lost the aircraft modeling circles in the houses of the pioneers, however, as well as the pioneer itself ...
      now have to catch up.
  2. Alexfly
    Alexfly 21 November 2020 15: 21
    -8
    Why didn’t they think of this before or only fight with baboons?
    1. Fungus
      Fungus 21 November 2020 15: 50
      0
      Previously, air defense was found from satellites. Now we have added it with the UAV.
      1. Jacket in stock
        Jacket in stock 21 November 2020 16: 46
        -3
        Quote: AlexFly
        Why didn’t they think of this before or only fight with baboons?

        Quote: Fungus
        Previously, satellites found

        Previously, there were no drones of sufficient carrying capacity.
        About the satellites amused, thanks
  3. APASUS
    APASUS 21 November 2020 15: 27
    +2
    It is necessary to send "ZALA Lancet-3" to detect enemy air defense systems
    1. Dodikson
      Dodikson 21 November 2020 15: 56
      0
      then I would also add the ability to search for any technique, and point the Lancets at it.
      moreover, to work on air defense, it would be nice to be able to find the enemy's optics, like there is groundwork for finding snipers in their optics, why can't this be used to find passive air defense weapons, such as our Derivation and Sosna, which do not have radar, but which are good work on optics and thermal imager (and this is also optics).
      1. Jacket in stock
        Jacket in stock 21 November 2020 16: 34
        0
        Quote: Dodikson
        there are developments in the search for snipers on their optics, why not use this

        Apparently, the Orlan does not fit, and there were no heavier UAVs yet.
        1. Dodikson
          Dodikson 21 November 2020 17: 25
          -3
          Altius seems to be there, but you can shove anything there
          1. Jacket in stock
            Jacket in stock 21 November 2020 17: 33
            -1
            Quote: Dodikson
            Altius seems to be

            So maybe they shoved it there. Just how many are those Altius?
            1. Dodikson
              Dodikson 21 November 2020 17: 48
              -2
              here it is necessary to decide just this, and not that the UAVs can do nothing.
              I need more UAVs and develop ready-made concepts, I already have a dozen of them in my head, and I am far from the smartest in our country, I hope they are doing it to the maximum.
        2. K-36
          K-36 22 November 2020 16: 08
          0
          Jacket in stock. [i] Apparently Orlan does not fit on, and there were no heavier UAVs yet. [/ i]
          Konstantin, well, you can't do that ...
          First: by whom apparently? By you? Is there any basic reason behind this?
          What I want to tell you. Watch this video about the Kolomna UAV Pilot Training Center. You will learn a lot of interesting things for yourself.
          https://www.ntv.ru/peredacha/smotr/m2220/o406237/video/
          And if you see the Forpost UAV there. do not be surprised. For example, I saw him at my airfield seven years ago yes ... It took off from our airfield to serve Aviadarts at the Pogonovo training ground. He gave a video picture online to us at the airfield and to the panel of judges at Pogonovo. And this is 120 km !!!
          I approached their operator's booth. It was amusing that the entire crew was dressed in black uniforms, and the St. Andrew's banner was hung on the position on the flagpole. lol ... However, they themselves confirmed to me that they are with the Navy.
          Konstantin, in addition, I recommend that you look at the bmpd page, where it says that "Outpost R" has already been created yes With our engine and our electronics.
          https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3925235.html
          I believe this will add significantly to your knowledge base. Good luck!
          hi
  4. MrFox
    MrFox 21 November 2020 15: 42
    +4
    That the drone is understandable ... What direction finder is on board? How are coordinates other than azimuth determined? What about LPI locators?

    The feeling that they want to get into a hot topic when there is nothing behind the soul
    1. YOUR
      YOUR 21 November 2020 16: 18
      +4
      Only the bearing can be determined and no more. Several pieces are already triangulating. It is quite possible and even likely that the UAV in the photo is not related to the topic. It's too small for the task at hand.
  5. Thrifty
    Thrifty 21 November 2020 15: 43
    0
    Is the artificial intelligence already ready? belay Maybe it's still an analogue of artificial intelligence? For what is artificial intelligence so far nobody in the world knows! Now they are trying to find a general definition of the AI ​​parameters, but for now we are talking only about its premitive analogue, let's say, the analogue of the first level, and the AI ​​itself will appear when the analogue of the third level will work. ..
    1. Jacket in stock
      Jacket in stock 21 November 2020 16: 36
      -4
      Quote: Thrifty
      Maybe it's still an analogue of artificial intelligence? For what is artificial intelligence so far nobody in the world knows!

      But you seem to know, since you find fault with the name.
      1. Thrifty
        Thrifty 21 November 2020 16: 55
        +5
        The jacket is in stock - I am not finding fault, but the very interpretation of the question, and the options for its implementation, are different from what they are trying to teach us under the guise of AI!
        1. Genry
          Genry 21 November 2020 19: 01
          +2
          Quote: Thrifty
          I'm not nitpicking, but the very interpretation of the question, and the options for its implementation, are different from what they are trying to teach us under the guise of AI!

          Do you expect an exact technical formulation from literary men? Where did you single out so that the ambitious dropouts would formulate something correctly? They are told "machine learning" - they immediately bloat to AI.
  6. Aleks2000
    Aleks2000 21 November 2020 15: 58
    +1
    Is it such a miracle in the photo - a detector?
    1. Jacket in stock
      Jacket in stock 21 November 2020 16: 37
      +3
      The photo is just some kind of drone that has nothing to do with the text.
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 21 November 2020 18: 31
        +8
        The photo is just some kind of drone that has nothing to do with the text.
        In the photo "Orlan - 10".
        It can carry out target designation, panoramic and planned photo and video shooting of the terrain, be used with the electronic warfare system to suppress radio signals as part of the Leer-3 complex (cellular blocker within a radius of about 6 km).
        There is a variant of a complex for detecting and determining the location of radio emission sources in the VHF-UHF ranges, registering them for subsequent technical analysis and automatic classification.
        Just a batch of such UAVs entered service with the combined arms army of the Southern Military District (YuVO) in July this year, as mentioned in the note (According to the newspaper, the new unmanned reconnaissance system has already been tested by the Ground Forces in the Southern Military District, including during the Caucasus-2020 military exercises.)

        About artificial intelligence - this is already whistled by newsmakers.
        1. Jacket in stock
          Jacket in stock 21 November 2020 19: 34
          -1
          Quote: Undecim
          There is a variant of a complex for detecting and determining the location of radio emission sources in the VHF-UHF ranges, registering them for subsequent technical analysis and automatic classification.

          As far as I remember from electrodynamics, in order to do this on small receivers, you need several of them and there are no "brains" for them. I don't know if this can be considered artificial intelligence, but still.
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 21 November 2020 19: 49
            +1
            The key phrase - their registration for subsequent technical analysis and automatic classification.
            "Subsequent technical analysis and classification" is obviously not carried out by the UAV hardware.
            And as to whether the analysis and classification of radiation sources can be considered a manifestation of artificial intelligence, then everything is still blurry, and high scientific circles have not yet decided on this.
        2. VO3A
          VO3A 21 November 2020 22: 28
          +2
          In the photo "Orlan - 10".
          Can carry out target designation

          You can fly to Mars! Do you understand the difference? The coordinates of the target should not be sent to the control panel of the control operator, but to the guidance system, at least, "Msta" or "Tornado-S" and in real time ... And for this, the calculation of the UAV should be part of the artillery and missile subunits and systems transmissions of information must be coordinated ... This must be taught, the application must be practiced ...
          These "Khenievs" have separate UAV regiments !!! Go off! ... And yelling obscenities at the radio station is not clear to whom and it is not clear where, how to receive only coordinates without a picture - this means "Can carry out target designation"...Wanting and being able and being able is not the same thing !!!
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 21 November 2020 22: 59
            +3
            You can fly to Mars! Do you understand the difference?
            Are you asking me a question or the author of the note?
            1. VO3A
              VO3A 21 November 2020 23: 03
              +2
              I explained to you how the UAV performs target designation, and how it should carry out ... And to you and everyone, so that you have no illusions ... Theoretically it can, but practically not quite, or rather cannot, as it should in modern warfare .. Everywhere window dressing and fairy tales ... The impression is that the generals are not preparing for war, but "rubbing our glasses" in order to calmly do nothing ... This was already in 41 ... Not enough Syria, Libya, LDNR, Karabakh - it's just that they are doing well there, from the point of view of the ability to conduct modern military operations, but in reality the opposite is true ...
              1. Undecim
                Undecim 21 November 2020 23: 21
                +1
                Thank you for your fiery speech, but if you had bothered to read my comments carefully, you would have understood that I do not need to explain, because I have not a word about the possibilities of target designation.
                1. Undecim
                  Undecim 22 November 2020 00: 10
                  +1
                  Why the site is frozen and the comment is not added.
                  The Ministry of Defense reports about the possibility of target designation, I only relayed their information. So all questions are for them.
          2. Herman 4223
            Herman 4223 21 November 2020 23: 44
            0
            UAV regiments were created in the Navy, in the ground forces of the UAV company with eagles as part of the Artilrian divisions. That is, they interact with those with whom they should.
            1. VO3A
              VO3A 22 November 2020 02: 27
              0
              That is, they interact with those with whom they should.

              I would like to believe, but how they interact is still very important ?! And what did ASUNO, or ART systems, improve the interaction in automatic mode and in real time? Do you yourself believe that? Or in the old fashioned way, on the radio? And the UAV is not for beauty, but for business? Or were the uncles just for show, so to speak, for the sake of time, staffed?
              I've heard so much about ROCK and ROCK that one could die from laughter ...
          3. K-36
            K-36 22 November 2020 20: 10
            +1
            VO3A These "Khenievs" have separate UAV regiments !!! Go off! ... And yelling obscenities at the radio station is not clear to whom and it is not clear where, how to receive some coordinates without a picture - this means "Can carry out target designation" ... Wanting and being able and being able is not the same thing !!!
            Andrey, I have been following your posts for a long time about network centrics and the backwardness of some part of the generals from the requirements of the present time. I treat your criticism in general positively (that's why the pike in the lake, so that the crucian does not doze lol ). At the same time, I dare to point out to you that sometimes you go too far, aggressively trying to show everything in black. I have already made an attempt to draw your attention to KRUS "Sagittarius". Over the past few years, I have been observing the training of military guys for the development and admission to independent work at this complex. I talked to them and found out something. For example, they send reconnaissance information received on the front line to both the command post and on board the aircraft with one click. They call it "info shot". That is, infa is first encrypted, then compressed by special software, and then fired at the consumer. Moreover, the transmission time of this information is in no way more than the time the bullet is in the bore of the Makarov pistol after the shot is fired. I also talked with the pilots. They confirm that they receive such information from KRUS-sheep. At the same time, the transmission time is not particularly bother. After all, they do not take it personally, but the aircraft equipment (which will decode and "stretch", and will lay out on monitors in color yes ). So, though slowly, the matter is moving! For the work of KRUS with artillery, you can delve into the GA in the UAV section. There are many examples from the realities of hostilities in the Donbas. I also recommend that you carefully watch (and listen!) The video about the training of future pilots at the Kolomna UAV Center
            https://www.ntv.ru/peredacha/smotr/m2220/o406237/video/
            And also watch (and listen!) The video with N.N. Dolzhenkov, who is now the Chief Designer of the UAV in the Kronstadt group. So he made an unambiguous hint to the aviation generals that it was time to introduce UAVs into the staff of aviation regiments. By the way, two years ago, here, at VO, I just justified this need (well ... from my bell tower) And you see how, already Dolzhenkov openly hints. Here is the video:
            https://www.ntv.ru/peredacha/smotr/m2220/o406237/video/
            Best wishes, your correspondence associate
            hi
            1. VO3A
              VO3A 22 November 2020 22: 20
              0
              Thanks for attention ! I really do not like the position of the military with us! They take what they give, or rather what the military-industrial complex offers. But it should not be so! The military must formulate requirements for equipment and its types, focusing on the advanced methods of modern warfare ...
              Let me give you an example! KRUS "Sagittarius" assumes that the soldiers are in contact with the enemy ... The soldier, who is in danger of death, gives target designation to the aircraft, helicopter, which may be outside the affected area ... This is RAVE ! The soldiers must be removed from the front end, information must be obtained using technical means, for example, an UAV! The wrong concept is evolving and making progress! Why? I'm not even talking about the transfer of information and control, which have lagged behind forever ... Such an old organization does not leave the possibility of realizing combat capabilities in real time ... I can draw the principles of building and controlling such combat systems, they can be built now .. I think that not only me! ... Moreover, I believe that American approaches to the implementation of network-centric systems have serious shortcomings, and at the theoretical level too ... We have such opportunities, such potential for creating such systems, and we practically marking time for 20 years .... Yes, 20 years, the history of life and death of ESU TZ "Sozvezdie-M", which should be created by order of the president, which was adopted, ironically by Gerasimov, and which does not exist and will never be in service .., along with money and time buried in the sand ... The whole General Staff does not know how to fight, does not know what they want and what needs to be done, precisely at the tactical level in modern warfare ... But they are all strategists .. . Again boo are they going to stack the soldiers?
  7. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 21 November 2020 16: 15
    +3
    Izvestia is writing based on information from the Moscow Region. What they gave, this was voiced ... Since the time of the Syrian epic, it is worth listening to information from the Ministry of Defense ... they lie a little. Once they decided to announce it, so there is something to talk about ... Sources of radio emission are detected from several azimuths, and the coordinates are determined. Another would be some "false target" raised in order to "excite" the air defense system ... otherwise they will calm down ...
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 21 November 2020 16: 39
      0
      Demonstration Squadron
      1. Mountain shooter
        Mountain shooter 21 November 2020 16: 56
        +1
        Quote: Krasnodar
        Demonstration Squadron

        Well, like those An-2 unmanned aerial vehicles that the Azerbaijanis launched, revealing the air defense system of the NKO ...
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 21 November 2020 17: 17
          +1
          Exactly
  8. bars1
    bars1 21 November 2020 16: 25
    0
    Quote: volodimer
    We do not have high-precision and small-sized

    Why isn't that ?! But what about KAB-100, KAB-50, UPAB-50, KAB-20? Rocket X-50?
  9. Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 21 November 2020 16: 38
    +2
    Less than 38 years have passed)).
  10. Jacket in stock
    Jacket in stock 21 November 2020 16: 42
    +1
    The direction can be determined with a highly directional antenna, which implies a rather large size. So a big drone has appeared, on which you can hang it.
    Well, or an antenna with a synthesized aperture, and this is also a brain.
    In general, progress is evident.
    1. Genry
      Genry 21 November 2020 19: 06
      +1
      Quote: Jacket in stock
      The direction can be determined with a highly directional antenna, which implies a rather large size.

      If you don't know, don't write. Dimensions are determined by the wavelength, and in the location it is ....
      1. Jacket in stock
        Jacket in stock 21 November 2020 19: 58
        -2
        Quote: Genry
        ... Dimensions are determined by the wavelength, and in the location it is ....
        it can be meters., which means the antenna should be at least several meters.
        Yes, even for decimeter it is already comparable to the size of the Orlan. Well, or a "lattice" of several Eagles.
        1. Genry
          Genry 21 November 2020 21: 39
          0
          Quote: Jacket in stock
          it can be meters., which means the antenna should be at least several meters.

          1 meter is 300MHz. There are practically no operating radars at such frequencies.
          A few meters of the antenna are at the old radars, which form a beam due to a parabolic mirror. The deeper the parabola, the narrower the beam. There is also a variant of the antenna array (antenna complexes), where the phase difference (PAR) can be measured and can have dimensions several times larger than the maximum wavelength.

          For simple direction finding, a short dipole antenna (maybe a magnetic antenna) is sufficient, much less wavelength. Here, the most accurate direction will be at the minimum signal.
          1. Jacket in stock
            Jacket in stock 22 November 2020 05: 17
            -1
            Quote: Genry
            For simple direction finding, a short dipole antenna (maybe a magnetic antenna) is enough, much less wavelength

            For a very simple direction finding, in the sense of a very approximate one. What's the use of that? To know that somewhere out there someone is radiating? For a dipole, even a long one, the diagram is strongly omnidirectional and has several lobes.
            For normal direction finding, either the antenna must be large, or several small ones assembled into an array. Or a synthetic aperture.
            1. Genry
              Genry 22 November 2020 06: 37
              +1
              Quote: Jacket in stock
              For a dipole, even a long one, the diagram is strongly omnidirectional and has several lobes.

              There are only two round petals and very sharp areas of minimal sensitivity between them. It is these areas, at the minimum signal, that are used for radio direction finding.
              Quote: Jacket in stock
              For normal direction finding, either the antenna must be large, or several small ones assembled into an array.

              Size: only needed to increase the sensitivity, which in the case of a back-reflective locator is narrower need not.
              Lattice: if you have not controlled HEADLIGHT, then it sharply worsens the width of the working range.
              And do not forget about invisibility: the larger the receiving antenna, the greater the reflection / re-radiation from it.
          2. brr1
            brr1 22 November 2020 10: 49
            0
            That, for example, can be seen in the example of r-255pp and r255mp where an antenna is built on a ferromagnetic core
    2. K-36
      K-36 22 November 2020 17: 00
      +1
      Jacket in stock. The direction can be determined with a highly directional antenna, which implies a rather large size.
      Konstantin, you can "determine the direction" not only with a highly directional antenna yes ... Read this (to broaden your horizons)
      https://habr.com/ru/post/397175/
      and this is https://yandex.ru/patents/doc/RU2423720C1_20110710
      I will single out another delusion of yours "and this implies a rather large size." I'll ask a question that will put everything in its place. Namely: Have you heard anything about half / quarter wave antennas? For example, in aviation there is a special emergency frequency of 121,5 MHz. Since you were once taught electrodynamics, I hope it will not be difficult for you to calculate the wavelength of this frequency. So 2,43m. And the antenna length in Komar-2M (and Kulikov's spare antenna for direct connection to R-855 when removing it from Komar) = 61 cm! yes That is, the work is done on a quarter-wavelength segment of the whip antenna. In a word, tighten your knowledge on this section of radio engineering.
      In conclusion. From your post I did not understand what you saw "progress", which for you, as it were
      "on the face". Please do not be offended for such a charge of criticism. I am posting this post not only for you, but also and for a significant number of VO readers who (I guess in pursuit of rating) do not consider it shameful for themselves to blurt out something quickly, close (from their point of view) to the topic (and there at least dawn). And it would be okay if something neutral, but there are often cases of placing outright lies recourse
      That is, they wanted to increase the rating, but they get exactly the opposite (at least in the eyes of serious and educated VO visitors. Well, God be their judge.
      hi
      1. Jacket in stock
        Jacket in stock 22 November 2020 17: 17
        -1
        Quote: K-36
        , in what you saw "progress",

        . I saw progress in expanding functionality.
        About the dimensions of the antenna I have already realized my mistake, or rather the stereotyped thinking.
        Now, however, I have the same question as many other commentators - what was in the way before?
  11. rocket757
    rocket757 21 November 2020 17: 13
    +4
    They would write less, and do and implement more.
  12. Klingon
    Klingon 21 November 2020 17: 26
    0
    well, let's put the radar on. But what about MANPADS? there they have passive IR seeker, they themselves do not emit anything. one minus - the range is small
    1. Jacket in stock
      Jacket in stock 21 November 2020 17: 37
      -1
      Quote: Klingon
      But what about MANPADS?

      Well, actually, even on the Brazilian "maize" there are devices that detect people under the crown of trees. If you take a drone of the appropriate carrying capacity, you can also hang such an attachment on it. If ours, of course, can do this.
      Again, there are optics detection systems.
      1. Klingon
        Klingon 21 November 2020 18: 44
        0
        you opened the news to me - and they hunt animals with IR cameras from Drones. But how do you make out on the IR image (which is just contrasting and only, there is usually no clarity) MANPADS in a person or an RPG or just a stick? at the shepherd's ?? or by default, saw the stick and Boom there a land mine? how do striped ones?
        1. Jacket in stock
          Jacket in stock 21 November 2020 18: 57
          0
          Quote: Klingon
          MANPADS or RPGs or just a stick? at the shepherd's ?? or by default, saw the stick and Boom there a land mine?

          And this is who we feel more sorry for, the "shepherd" or our pilots.
          1. K-36
            K-36 22 November 2020 18: 40
            +1
            Jacket in stock And this is who we feel more sorry for, the "shepherd" or our pilots.
            Constantine, this is just some kind of obsession. Why am I constantly stumbling over your comments? More precisely, I know that, but I do not want to develop this topic. And I am writing this comment not so much for you (although for you too).
            So. A conversation in my kitchen over a "glass of tea" three years ago. The event I am about to tell you about happened in one of our southern republics. Reconnaissance information arrived that a group of militants with weapons was moving through the mountains with the direction of movement to the city of N. The UAV crew was tasked with thoroughly examining the area from the air and reporting. The UAV flew over the mountains for a long time, and finally, it found a group (7-8 people) with two carbines over its shoulders. The group went down the mountainside to the hunting lodge and settled in it UAV-Schnicks reported with the video. And then (according to the verified Algorithm) point number 2 was supposed to enter the case: a special forces detachment should be sent (on foot or by helicopter, it does not matter) to the place of detection. Its task is to detect and classify the truth of the Goal. That is, to unambiguously confirm (or deny) that this is the same group of militants. But someone "at the top" considered point 2 of the Algorithm redundant. After all, everything seems to be clear anyway (people with weapons on their shoulders, in the mountains, move with backpacks and single file). And if everything is clear, then ... go ahead for the Orders! The Su-25 took off, found this hunting lodge, and launched an assault bomb. All were killed. Only after the specialists got to the place of the bombed-out house, it turned out that these were civilians who had gone mushrooming and eaodno and hunting. And then the smell of fried ...
            One very high-ranking official from the Ministry of Defense used to fire up the calculation of the UAV in the operator's cabin. For finding the wrong group. All the mats known in Russia were expressed. It is clear that they received disciplinary action. But was that person really so right in his sincere anger? After all, someone has ignored point number 2, and this is by no means a calculation of the UAV. Yes, and this calculation does not have any authority to command the departure of the aircraft of the air regiment.
            Now let's get back to the beginning of the story. Continuous questions:
            1. Who are the people who ignored point # 2 of the Algorithm?
            2. What prompted these military commanders to be in such a hurry?
            3. The relatives of the innocent murdered will still learn the truth about their death. How much do you think the level of trust in the state and its Army will "increase" in their eyes?!?
            Such is the sad story. And who "more sorry " - to judge you, my dear compatriots.
    2. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 21 November 2020 18: 06
      +1
      Quote: Klingon
      well, let's put the radar on. But what about MANPADS? there they have passive IR seeker, they themselves do not emit anything. one minus - the range is small

      After knocking out the air defense, aviation will work outside the affected area of ​​MANPADS
    3. Genry
      Genry 21 November 2020 19: 13
      0
      Quote: Klingon
      well, let's put the radar on. But what about MANPADS?

      MANPADS, for the most part, are also guided from the radar. Observers on the phone simply do not have time to transmit the direction.
  13. Klingon
    Klingon 21 November 2020 18: 50
    0
    Quote: Krasnodar
    Quote: Klingon
    well, let's put the radar on. But what about MANPADS? there they have passive IR seeker, they themselves do not emit anything. one minus - the range is small

    After knocking out the air defense, aviation will work outside the affected area of ​​MANPADS

    in "Saratov" the Babakhs did not have any serious air defense and do not have any at all, but our aerospace forces did come under fire from MANPADS. Nonsense? so they will fly within the reach of MANPADS, through an oversight, or because of the difficult terrain .. will be that. they always do that. In Afghanistan, they flew all the time - and the landscape is like that, even if you knock out the air defense, at least there is no, but somewhere in the ravine there always sits a woman with a stinger and watches over a gaping guard
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 21 November 2020 19: 24
      +1
      An article about UAVs for the demolition of air defense systems and the spread of enemy ground forces.
      As for MANPADS, I don't know the mission of the Su-24-25 in Saratov. I don't know why they worked this way, at such heights. On helicopters - yes, they always fall under MANPADS and all that. This, most likely, cannot be avoided.
      1. Klingon
        Klingon 21 November 2020 20: 22
        +1
        Well, yes, that's right, an article about the air defense system. I just tried to reason logically .. I wonder if the enemy's air defense system is sharpened just for drones ?. that is, if the drone scanned the air defense system, then this does not mean that the air defense system will not see it at the moment. For powerful air defense systems, radars, respectively, see very far away. and if there are lasers instead of missiles? there the reaction rate will be faster than that of a missile air defense system. And then kirdyk to the scout drone .. in short, here is the eternal dilemma of the sword and shield
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 21 November 2020 20: 38
          +1
          The problem is that today no one, incl. Amers and Jews, there is no air defense against drones. There are all types of drones, and for a long time. Scouts, drums, even AWACS)). But the effective counteraction to them - alas. Israelis shoot down with helicopters and Patriot, planes are considered ineffective))
          1. strannik1985
            strannik1985 21 November 2020 20: 44
            +1
            EMNIP Hezbollah has been using drones since 2004, something about special successes against the IDF has not been heard.
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 21 November 2020 20: 51
              -1
              They have scouts to help track the location / movement of the Israeli forces. The organization is small, dedicated to guerrillas, so the success is appropriate. Nevertheless, they are quite professional, and thanks to the battles in Syria, they have gained valuable experience in waging war both in construction (in 2006, clashes with the IDF in a built-up area ended for them with almost 200 XNUMXs in two days of fighting), and on a postcard terrain. Serious guys, they just aren't enough hi
          2. Klingon
            Klingon 21 November 2020 23: 23
            0
            I have already mentioned the German Mantis. just against artillery shells, mines and drones sharpened. 4-5 35mm turrets GDF - 020 (former Eerlikon Contraves) and powerful AI guidance system. + AHEAD shells with remote detonation
  14. Tagan
    Tagan 21 November 2020 18: 52
    -1
    Quote: lexus
    All normal ones are already in full use, and the RF Ministry of Defense is just beginning to itch. hi

    Yes, it is you who are missing in the RF Ministry of Defense. How many talents are rotting in the bud. Unrecognized physicist and failed great military leader. Usual, right? It remains only to whine for any reason and without.
  15. Klingon
    Klingon 21 November 2020 19: 04
    0
    Quote: Jacket in stock
    Quote: Klingon
    MANPADS or RPGs or just a stick? at the shepherd's ?? or by default, saw the stick and Boom there a land mine?

    And this is who we feel more sorry for, the "shepherd" or our pilots.

    yes yes, we have already seen how we feel sorry for our pilots. The "shepherds" never flew a land mine. Only the gas pipeline was installed and the nuclear power plant was built. Shepherds with pancake sticks
  16. fa2998
    fa2998 21 November 2020 20: 06
    -2
    At the beginning of the article, the photo is remarkable. Previously, the pioneers in aircraft modeling circles did this, and now the MO are adult uncles, and they ask for money from the treasury. lol
  17. TatarinSSSR
    TatarinSSSR 22 November 2020 09: 31
    0
    I feel that one day some country will create some kind of wunderwaffe, which in an instant will make the sky within a radius of 100 km useless for UAVs - they just fall by themselves because of burnt electronic brains from some electromagnetic pulse or something similar. And in the end, the chaos and drone boom will end there.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 22 November 2020 11: 34
      +1
      And how the electronics will burn out - combat drones have protection against EMP, and the use of such systems can harm their own in the form of communication interruptions.
  18. meandr51
    meandr51 22 November 2020 23: 25
    0
    Attack drones are needed for those who do not have MLRS, tactical missiles, bombers and layered air defense with electronic warfare. Or when the scale of the conflict is very small and will not pay off the use of the above.
    But reconnaissance UAVs are needed by everyone.
  19. Archivist Vasya
    Archivist Vasya 23 November 2020 10: 57
    0
    Did the Ministry of Defense only think of this after the events in Karabakh? Hmm ....