Military Review

"Bankruptcy of the Russian pension system" - populism or real assessment: on the statements of Sergei Mironov

186
"Bankruptcy of the Russian pension system" - populism or real assessment: on the statements of Sergei Mironov

The statement by the leader of A Just Russia, Sergei Mironov, made yesterday from the rostrum of the State Duma regarding the complete and final collapse of the national pension reform, caused a lot of noise in the country's information space.


Now it only remains to figure out what we are dealing with - with ordinary populism, designed to attract public attention, or with a formidable warning, which is worth listening to?

It's no secret that politicians all over the world like to make apocalyptic predictions, while somewhat abusing superlatives and extremely exaggerated colors. After all, Mr. Mironov is not the head of the FIU and does not head the Ministry of Finance. But he perfectly understands how the people perceive the pension reform itself, especially in terms of raising the retirement age.

The party leader, using the parliamentary tribune, made a statement about the complete failure of the government pension reform and the inevitable bankruptcy of the Russian Pension Fund. In fact, his words mean that already in the near foreseeable future, millions of our compatriots may be left completely without a livelihood after retirement. Mironov described the current system as “monstrously ineffective” and predicted that “no cosmetic amendments would save it”. He also called the pension insurance introduced during the reform process "cannibalistic" on the grounds that it "takes away 22% of the income of legally working Russians."

According to the politician, the only way out of the disastrous situation is the complete disbandment of the Pension Fund of Russia, which in itself will give considerable savings. The head of the "SR" considers the staff of this organization to be godlessly bloated, and he calls the premises it occupies only as palaces. He is convinced that everything will be normalized if Russia returns to the practice of paying its citizens pensions from the state budget - in fact, to the Soviet pension model.

As a justification for his own position, the politician cites data obtained by specialists from the Russian Academy of National Economy and Public Administration (RANEPA), according to which, starting from 2030, a sharp (from 34% to 27%) decrease in the ratio of pensions and salaries of our citizens will begin. And this is despite the increase in the retirement age by 5 years.

Mironov argues that experts can offer the authorities extremely unpopular measures to solve this problem - toughening the criteria for those wishing to go on a well-deserved vacation ahead of schedule, "taking out of the shadows" all "gray" employment in the country, and, finally, increasing the amount of insurance premiums to 25% ... Thus, in his opinion, "they will try to solve the issue of small payments at the expense of the pensioners themselves." “Truly solid guarantees,” from Mironov’s point of view, will give Russians who have honestly worked their entire lives only a return to direct pension provision from the treasury, without any “unnecessary intermediaries”.



Several points should be noted. First of all, one should not forget that this is far from the first "attack" on the FIU by the leader of the "Fair Russia". Even this year. He spoke of the vital necessity of his early liquidation back in August, starting from some negative materials published after the audit of this organization by the Accounts Chamber. Then he also emphasized unjustifiably large expenses going to the maintenance of the Pension Fund apparatus and ensuring its activities. And many of his calls, of course, were supported.

No wonder - after all, any negative statements about the pension reform in our country fall on more than fertile ground of public opinion, which categorically does not accept it. What to do - this decision has become the most unpopular step of the domestic authorities in almost the entire current period. stories... However, it is hardly worth arguing that, caused by itself, quite possibly by a real and urgent need, the reform turned out to be very poorly thought out and even worse explained to the population. This, alas, is obvious.

It is no longer possible to see 80-year-old citizens eager to jump with a parachute and sink to the bottom of the ocean on the screens, advocating an increase in the retirement age. There is no need ... The decision has already been made. And where is the "significant increase in the standard of living of pensioners" - none of the statesmen can say, because there is no reason or desire to explain anything at all.

The bankruptcy of the pension system is a social catastrophe that can cause national cataclysms in the country. If the authorities do not intend to repeat their mistakes made during the implementation of the unpopular reform that has become so unpopular, then it should clarify the issues raised in the Duma in the very near future. And to do it, as they say, with figures and facts in hand. Otherwise, the domestic government will only have to admit that the deputy Mironov is right, and hence the approach of the pension collapse.
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  1. Gene84
    Gene84 20 November 2020 09: 53
    75
    Raising the retirement age is collapse. By this step, two years ago, the current government proved its inability to carry out social policy in the country.
    1. Kronos
      Kronos 20 November 2020 09: 59
      28
      So the government has consistently removed social guarantees from itself for many years.
    2. paul3390
      paul3390 20 November 2020 10: 00
      57
      Not an inability, but a categorical reluctance .. For from the point of view of the ruling liberals - everything that does not bring them profit has no right to life. If you can't work hard anymore, die. And that is precisely why the PF exists - an excellent tool for sawing the dough .. And so - it will always be, until we return the Soviet power. For it is good - the bourgeois will not give even a penny, especially since the penny is in the pocket of the people - he also considers it his own.

      But in general - it’s even good that the radiant one so drowned in a cannibalistic type of reform .. At least a large number of people have lost their last illusions about this protégé of the oligarchy .. And capitalism in general.
      1. Svarog
        Svarog 20 November 2020 10: 13
        23
        And that is why PF exists - an excellent tool for sawing dough

        A gasket that devours a lot of money, at our expense they build office locks for themselves, keep a bunch of worthless officials who also rob .. that is, robbery in the square ..
        1. Stas157
          Stas157 20 November 2020 11: 07
          12
          complete and final collapse domestic pension reform

          Wow! Not easy complete, but also final! This is a very serious statement by a party boss close to Putin, a person from the first circle.

          The bankruptcy of the pension system is a social catastrophe that can cause national cataclysms in the country.

          Well, let's play back. Let's return the old retirement age and social catastrophe is unacceptable! All will be only FOR.
          1. paul3390
            paul3390 20 November 2020 11: 15
            35
            Will not work. Firstly, our adored guarantor never admits his mistakes, even if he really shit. Like - he's a macho, he has a zap. Secondly - to rip out of the throat of the bourgeois already swallowed - you can only by force. And who will do this, except ourselves? And we did not say anything when they once again put us in the position of a drinking deer.

            Until people learn to go out into the streets at the slightest attack on their rights, they will continue to spread rot and rob us. And most of all - just return the people's power. Soviet.
            1. DrEng527
              DrEng527 20 November 2020 11: 31
              -48 qualifying.
              Quote: paul3390
              And most of all - simply return the people's power. Soviet.

              thanks! 73 years of terror and scarcity were enough for us ... request
              1. The Siberian barber
                The Siberian barber 20 November 2020 11: 50
                29
                Quote: DrEng527
                Quote: paul3390
                And most of all - simply return the people's power. Soviet.

                thanks! 73 years of terror and scarcity were enough for us ... request

                That, during the terror, the population grew steadily))
                1. DrEng527
                  DrEng527 20 November 2020 11: 56
                  -28 qualifying.
                  Quote: The Siberian Barber
                  the population grew steadily))

                  it is growing in Africa now ...
                  1. The Siberian barber
                    The Siberian barber 20 November 2020 13: 12
                    24
                    Quote: DrEng527
                    Quote: The Siberian Barber
                    the population grew steadily))

                    it is growing in Africa now ...

                    And in prosperous Russia, it falls, despite the constant influx and naturalization of Central Asians and the sensitive care of the socially oriented state
                    Paradox
                    1. DrEng527
                      DrEng527 20 November 2020 13: 20
                      -27 qualifying.
                      Quote: The Siberian Barber
                      Paradox

                      By no means - during the Soviet era there were very large demographic losses and a change in demographic behavior - a family of 1 child and abortions became the norm ... request
                    2. VORON538
                      VORON538 21 November 2020 13: 45
                      -4
                      The paradox is that in Europe, which is prosperous in relation to Russia, the population is aging and the population is growing by migrants, while in Muslim countries and countries where general poverty, such as Africa, the population is growing. In India, population growth is not a factor of well-being. in Russia, the population is aging, and Russian mothers do not want to give birth. But the Asians who migrated to Russia (Kyrgyz, Uzbeks, Tajiks and others) reproduce quite well (forgive such a word), maybe it’s not a pension, but “European values”, who amazed the brains of modern young ladies, that they do not crawl out of gyms (from poverty) to tighten their priests? And in color they say, why give birth, spoil the body? But these fitonies maintain their blogs and pages on the insta, which young people read and follow them For example, Buzova will say, give birth, and they will go to give birth. But she doesn’t need it. And her fans, of whom there are millions, all want to become bloacher millionaires and do nothing. And the rest of this generation is not an authority.
                      1. VORON538
                        VORON538 21 November 2020 13: 53
                        -2
                        Regarding the young replenishment, who wants everything at once. Just a couple of years ago, they finally gave me something, even with a specialized education. But only now I want the child to get a bigger salary and immediately, so I don't mind suddenly becoming an engineer. I ask him, But why are you all of a sudden? And he, and what, I have a tower, I have, then, the right. And to the question, why did you not go to the military institute right away, he says, but nah it was necessary Here is such a youth came. Give him chases, immediately and without fail, in vain that he ate vodka for five years in a civil university.
                      2. DrEng527
                        DrEng527 21 November 2020 15: 00
                        -1
                        Quote: VORON538
                        in vain that he ate vodka for five years in a civilian university.

                        they don't drink much now ...
                        Quote: VORON538
                        so the child wants a bigger salary and immediately, p

                        and who does not want? bully you need to live right away, so at least 40 tons should be given to an engineer ...
                      3. VORON538
                        VORON538 21 November 2020 15: 04
                        -3
                        Drinks well, more than average, and the salary is now 50
                        And this is without allowances and did not become an "engineer"
                      4. DrEng527
                        DrEng527 21 November 2020 15: 34
                        -2
                        Quote: VORON538
                        and did not become an "engineer"

                        Well, this is the task of his leadership - to set tasks and demand execution ... wink
                2. DrEng527
                  DrEng527 21 November 2020 15: 01
                  -2
                  Quote: VORON538
                  But in Russia the population is aging, and Russian mothers do not want to give birth.

                  can you ask them badly? wink
                3. VORON538
                  VORON538 21 November 2020 15: 10
                  -3
                  Who is "them", we don't have polygamy. And Russians should fertilize European mothers too? Europe has the same problems. Again, Russia is to blame? This is the tendency of developed countries - aging population and low birth rate. Although, maybe you have a different way, but in a different way now only in third world countries, where women are only busy giving birth to children or constantly have abortions because there is no mind and there is not enough money for contraceptives.
                4. DrEng527
                  DrEng527 21 November 2020 15: 33
                  -2
                  Quote: VORON538
                  And the Russians should fertilize European mothers too?

                  I do not mind if young and beautiful, do you? bully
                  Quote: VORON538
                  Although, it may be different for you,

                  I have 4 children, and you?
        2. Varyag71
          Varyag71 20 November 2020 13: 59
          16
          Remind me, when there in Africa a satellite and a man were sent into space? Thousands of heavy industry enterprises also built there? What about the best medicine and education in Africa?
          1. DrEng527
            DrEng527 20 November 2020 14: 46
            -18 qualifying.
            Quote: Varyag71
            Remind me, when there in Africa a satellite and a man were sent into space? Thousands of heavy industry enterprises also built there?

            1) read about South Africa ....
            2) poke your wife wink
            1. Foul skeptic
              Foul skeptic 20 November 2020 15: 53
              +7
              1) read about South Africa ...

              And what about the dynamics of growth is also going to read?
            2. VORON538
              VORON538 21 November 2020 13: 56
              -2
              In South Africa, if anything, whites ruled
              And the mabuta kept chasing the monkeys through the trees!
    3. paul3390
      paul3390 20 November 2020 13: 16
      14
      Why are you jumping up and down? Already people like you - as if the Soviet government does not need any figs. You can start packing your bags. Or do you prefer felling?
      1. DrEng527
        DrEng527 20 November 2020 13: 28
        -25 qualifying.
        Quote: paul3390
        You can start packing your bags. Or do you prefer felling?

        They are always amused by worthless creatures who think they are the rulers of the world ... bully
        1. paul3390
          paul3390 20 November 2020 13: 42
          14
          This is the first time I see a patient dragging himself away from himself ... However, they say this to you, shitcrackers, in general.
          1. DrEng527
            DrEng527 20 November 2020 13: 52
            -14 qualifying.
            Quote: paul3390
            This is the first time I see a patient dragging himself away.

            not surprising - from your writing follows your image - illiterate and little intelligent hi
            1. paul3390
              paul3390 20 November 2020 14: 11
              11
              And from your opuses - not even an image to be seen, one liberal mug.
            2. DrEng527
              DrEng527 20 November 2020 14: 27
              -12 qualifying.
              Quote: paul3390
              And from your opuses - not even an image to be seen, one liberal mug.

              we have enough of our own gopots in the Urals - they were not surprised ... bully
  2. bayard
    bayard 21 November 2020 14: 33
    +1
    Quote: DrEng527
    Quote: paul3390
    And most of all - simply return the people's power. Soviet.

    thanks! 73 years of terror and scarcity were enough for us ...

    And you - to run.
    To Paris or London.
    Or to Lithuania, at worst.
  • Doctor
    Doctor 20 November 2020 15: 23
    +8
    Wow! Not easy complete, but also final! This is a very serious statement by a party boss close to Putin, a person from the first circle.

    This is the machinations of enemies! Pensions are growing!

    The average pension in Russia, compared to 2013, increased from 9 rubles. up to RUB 153, that is, from $ 14194 to $ 295.
    laughing
    1. Lexus
      Lexus 20 November 2020 20: 28
      +3
      For "scrappy" people this is called # getting up is slender and # negative growth. laughing
  • Doctor
    Doctor 20 November 2020 15: 27
    +9
    at our expense they build office locks for themselves,

    Where are the castles? Ordinary office buildings. laughing





  • tihonmarine
    tihonmarine 20 November 2020 10: 14
    10
    Quote: paul3390
    For good - the bourgeois will not give even a penny, especially since the penny is in the pocket of the people - he also considers it as his own

    That's for sure, Marx wrote about this in 1848, but we forgot about it in 1991, it's time to remember the well-forgotten old.
  • Alexander Kopychev
    Alexander Kopychev 20 November 2020 11: 03
    +7
    For it is good - the bourgeois will not give even a penny, especially since the penny is in the pocket of the people - he also considers it his own.

  • Hypertension
    Hypertension 20 November 2020 14: 04
    +1
    Quote: paul3390
    For from the point of view of the ruling liberals, everything that does not bring them profit has no right to life. If you can't work hard anymore, die.

    [media = https: //www.youtube.com/watch? v = _h4-85e5nYU]
    1. The comment was deleted.
  • nnm
    nnm 20 November 2020 10: 06
    -3
    Initially, of course, I would like to ask whether Mironov and his fellow party members voted "for" this very pension reform and what responsibility he is ready to accept for himself, his beloved. But this is a rhetorical question.
    And now, in essence:
    1. Mironov suggests absolute stupidity. We have, in fact, state pension provision. Well, what's the difference where the employer will deduct 22% - to the Pension Fund or to the budget? To assign pensions, the state will still need to create a structure similar to this very PFR - social security, or whatever it will be called, but it will be in any case. This means that there will be the same apparatus, expenses for its maintenance, as for the PFR. Essentially, nothing will change.
    2. The only adequate option is a mixed system. Accumulative and state pension at the choice of a citizen. If a person wants to open an individual retirement account, let him make the prescribed contributions to this account, to which the state will not have any access. Accumulated 10 million - his right. Accumulated 100 million - his right. And no one could get close to this money. But the category of disabled people, workers with low wages and so on remains, and the state should be responsible for them. And it doesn't matter if these expenses are subsidized or only due to contributions. We have a welfare state and, first of all, it should think about the person, not about itself. A couple of Sberbanks for 3,2 trillion will sell less. So caring for people is quite affordable for our state. You just need to steal less.
    3. The Singapore option is also possible with a single fund for retirement, housing, investments, medicine, etc., but not with our demographics and theft.
    1. Klingon
      Klingon 20 November 2020 11: 12
      +6
      Why choose state or funded? in Germany, for example, state + funded (if you want to deduct yourself for retirement) + there is also an employer's fund or a land fund (the employer himself deducts from your gross salary to the land fund). By the way, in the second case, the state also makes annual bonuses in the form of tax cuts. so why can't you make a combined one?
      1. nnm
        nnm 20 November 2020 11: 25
        +1
        I wrote - the choice of a citizen.
        Accumulative and state pension at the choice of a citizen.

        And the combined one is just an addition in the form of non-state pension funds. What is already there. Indeed, the employee will deduct the additional part in excess of the standard established by the state.
    2. Alexander Kopychev
      Alexander Kopychev 20 November 2020 11: 16
      25
      We have a welfare state and, first of all, it should think about the person, not about itself.

      How "social" our state is is very clear, as befits an Academician, expressed Zhores Alferov:
      “If a citizen is forced to pay for education and medical services, to accumulate a pension from his own funds, to pay housing and utilities in full at the market price, then why do I need such a state ?! Why should I still pay taxes and maintain a crazy army of officials? he always said at all levels that health care, education and science should be provided from the budget. If the state puts this concern on us, let it disappear, it will be much easier for us! "
      1. Hagen
        Hagen 20 November 2020 12: 38
        -18 qualifying.
        Quote: Alexander Kopychev
        Zhores Alferov put it:

        Alferov, of course, is an authoritative comrade, but he is also ready to "turn cancer for a stone" for a nice word. Education, health care and pensions become paid for those who want to receive more from these institutions than the average population receives. Someone pays for high school? They pay for some closed private lyceum ... Periodically meeting fees for some textbooks or special notebooks in the amount of 2-3 tr is not a tuition fee. Higher education can also become free if you strive for it ahead of time. Every year the number of budget-funded places, especially in technical universities, is growing and noticeably. So our state is social, but as much as it can afford with our labor productivity. We live as we work. There is no other way.
        1. Lannan Shi
          Lannan Shi 20 November 2020 13: 19
          16
          Quote: Hagen
          So our state is social, but as much as our labor productivity can afford.

          In 2020, 910 billion will be spent on secondary education. Schoolchildren - 17 million. the annual cost of education for 1 student is 50 thousand kopecks. Thousand 600 in 11 years. The budget of the Ministry of Health, like in the region of 840 billion. Or less than 6.000 per year per person. Well, let it be exactly 6, for the convenience of counting. For 75 years of life - 450 thousand. In total, a little more than a million, for medicine and school for each. For the whole life. 1 million 50 thousand and no more.
          And now about the gesheft of the state from the population. Average salary in Russia, last year, 44.000. 5% of this amount goes to FOMs. More precisely 5.1, but ... But let's not waste time on trifles. 2.200 a month, 28,400 a year, or under 800 thousand if you work for 30 years. Or more than a million if you work 40. Don't you think that someone is a little cunning and has a lot of brazenly? Another 13% is income. Approximately 2,75 million, over 40 years. Let me remind you that the medicine has already been paid for. Paid more than two times. And this is the school bill. With a five-fold wrap. And I don't think about VAT yet. With the help of which, of the 39.000 remaining after the payment of personal income tax, another 6.5 thousand are withdrawn per month, or 3.1 million for all labor activity. And this is not all taxes. And there are also excise taxes ...
          Let's not talk about the welfare state? Good? It is about the same social as a meat-packing plant is social, from the point of view of sheep. For each ruble invested in a citizen, our welfare state rips off at least 5 rubles of gesheft from him. This is generally closer to the concept of cannibalism than to the welfare state. yes
          1. Hagen
            Hagen 20 November 2020 14: 33
            -10 qualifying.
            Quote: Lannan Shi
            Average salary in Russia, last year, 44.000.

            What is the salary? What do you have in mind? Amount paid or accrued?
          2. Hagen
            Hagen 20 November 2020 19: 59
            -10 qualifying.
            Quote: Lannan Shi
            And now about the gesheft of the state from the population. Average salary in Russia, last year, 44.000. 5% of this amount goes to FOMs. More precisely 5.1,

            You are a well-read man, no doubt. So you know that the 44000 rubles you are talking about is very close to the average net payment, i.e. after deducting personal income tax (2020 - average net payment - 42703.08 rubles, gross, i.e. accrued, before deductions - 49084 rubles). Thus, you are well aware that of those 44, no 000% and other things are deducted. So - you are writing a deliberate lie. The question is: why? Hope that everyone in this industry is "off topic" and will believe you? Don't you like this state? Where is better? Where are we (and you) not? Or some other dissatisfaction in life?
            Quote: Lannan Shi
            This is generally closer to the concept of cannibalism than to the welfare state.

            This is your personal opinion that you have the right to have. But be aware, your hatred for the country will pass to your children, this is inevitable. And it may so happen that in your old age, there really will be no one to earn a pension and other social guarantees that you have. And you have them, apparently, diligently avoiding investments in them.
            1. Lannan Shi
              Lannan Shi 20 November 2020 20: 34
              10
              Quote: Hagen
              that of those 44, no 000% and other things are deducted. So - you are writing a deliberate lie. The question is: why?

              What for? Your enlightenment for. If you do not know how the calculation of contributions to funds occurs, then educate yourself. And if you do not want to gain knowledge ... Then do not carry nonsense. yes But so be it. As a charity event. For each ruble of the full salary accrued to you, before the deduction of personal income tax, there are 30 kopecks of payments to the funds. Specifically, in the MHIF - 5.1 kopecks. So our medicine is not free. This is a fake designed for complete and hopeless ignoramuses. We pay every penny for this "free" medicine, out of the salary that was not given to us. And if you believe the official figures, but we believe them, because our guarantor and his dependents are the most honest people in the world laughing , then we pay as much as 2.5-3 times. yes
              Quote: Hagen
              But be aware, your hatred for the country will pass to your children, this is inevitable.

              Laponka. The Putin, Potanin and other Rotenbergs are not Russia. These are parasites in her body. And don't talk about children. When they collect money for medicines for children by text messages, these gentlemen spend tens and hundreds of yards of dollars on palaces, yachts and whores. And I frankly do not understand why I should not hate those who make capital for the health and death of people, including children.
              1. Hagen
                Hagen 20 November 2020 21: 10
                -10 qualifying.
                Quote: Lannan Shi
                Laponka.

                For starters, I have no need for your frivolous indulgence. Keep yourself within the bounds of decency. All the same, I am not Putin, and no other "slander".

                Quote: Lannan Shi
                But so be it. As a charity event. For each ruble of the full salary accrued to you, before the deduction of personal income tax, there are 30 kopecks of payments to the funds. Specifically, in the MHIF - 5.1 kopecks.

                It is obvious that the economy is far from you. For instead of "accrued", it would be more honest to say from what pocket this contribution to the MHIF is paid. When applying for a job, you take into account what you are promised, namely the accrued salary. Nobody attracts you by promising to pay something somewhere from your payroll. In any case, I have not seen this in any invitation to work. From this charge (spelled out in the employment contract) you get 87% after deducting 13% of personal income tax. The rest is paid by the employer. But he may not pay when he recruits personnel under GPC contracts, thereby deceiving both the employee and the state. The shadow economy that exists is a combined payment (the official minimum with all deductions from the payroll + an envelope with black cash) or DGPH, when everything is paid to the employee and he has to pay all taxes and contributions. Your mention of "each ruble of the salary accrued to you, in full, before the deduction of personal income tax, there are 30 kopecks" is nothing more than an attempt to mislead, tk. does not show where and from where these 30 kopecks flow. The employer pays to the MHIF and the Pension Fund from his own profit. The employee has nothing to do with this money, he did not agree with the employer about it. If my memory serves me, you worked on the construction of roads as a hired worker, and then went into your own business. You cannot help but understand that you are lying. Especially if you hire outside staff. I understand that too; your charity is unnecessary for me, all the more so false.
                Quote: Lannan Shi
                And I honestly don't understand .....

                These are already your cognitive problems. I know one thing, hatred is not creative, wrinkles, diseases and early withdrawal from it ... But how to build your life for you is up to you.
                1. Lannan Shi
                  Lannan Shi 20 November 2020 22: 01
                  +9
                  Quote: Hagen
                  Keep yourself within the bounds of decency.

                  Don't you like paw? Am I insulting and humiliating you? There is a button - a complaint. yes
                  Quote: Hagen
                  The employer pays to the MHIF and the Pension Fund from his own profit.

                  The last lesson for today.
                  The tax code of the Russian Federation.
                  Article 247. Object of taxation
                  For the purposes of this chapter, profit is recognized:
                  1) for Russian organizations that are not members of a consolidated group of taxpayers - income received, reduced by the amount of expenses incurred,
                  Article 255. Labor costs
                  16) the amount of payments (contributions) of employers under compulsory insurance contracts

                  As far as we can see, contributions to funds are even officially referred to as payroll costs. You see, little paw, this is an excerpt from the Tax Code, which quite officially claims to itself that all payments to funds are made at the expense of payroll funds. And here is the chatter from the box, about the small taxes in the Russian Federation, it is just chatter. Although yes. There is also a grain of truth. Small taxes on income, in Russia, really do take place. But let's clarify. For incomes starting from 1.3 million rubles. But on ordinary hard workers, taxes are so brutal that the same USA, against their background, is a tax haven for the poor.
                  For this free educational program I finish, all the rest of the educational activities in a purely individual and paid order. But in general, yes, in general you have annealed well. Payments to funds out of profit. I haven't heard such nonsense for a long time. laughing
                  1. Hagen
                    Hagen 20 November 2020 23: 02
                    -8
                    Quote: Lannan Shi
                    Article 255. Labor costs
                    16) the amount of payments (contributions) of employers under compulsory insurance contracts

                    So we burned. There are payments (contributions) of employers. As a mercenary, how do you relate to the duties of an employer? Everything that the employer owes you is spelled out in the employment contract. And what he deducted from the accrued, as your tax agent, is spelled out in the payroll. And there is a "brutal figure" of 13%, unless you voluntarily instructed him to make other deductions. There is no need to touch the USA here. Everything is really different there, including the non-arrival of an ambulance in the absence of medical insurance (which the employer is not obliged to issue to an employee like ours). In general, a simple monetary comparison of incomes in different countries is either a complete misunderstanding of the topic, or a deliberate lie.
                    Quote: Lannan Shi
                    an excerpt from the Tax Code, which quite officially claims that all payments to funds are made at the expense of payroll funds

                    Documents love accuracy. The wage fund is the amount distributed for the work performed between employees in accordance with the tariff rates, salaries, and piece-rate established at the enterprise. It includes: wages in any form; surcharges, allowances, bonuses; compensation due to working conditions. The amount of social payments does not belong to the FZP. The wage fund is a broader concept and includes the amount of absolutely all charges to employees of the organization, including the wage bill. Unlike the payroll, only the amount for hours worked and bonuses directly related to it are related to the payroll. Do you feel the difference?
                    Quote: Lannan Shi
                    Payments to funds out of profit. I haven't heard such nonsense for a long time.

                    I agree to change "profit" for "revenue". What has changed? Your employment contract does not include either one or the other. You quoted from the document, and you do not understand what all this means. It happens... laughing All payments to funds are the result of the relationship between the employer and the state. There is no room for a worker. If the employer is able to deceive the state, he still will not voluntarily transfer the savings in excess of the contract to the employee. Due to this, he can increase the salary of the employee, but only so that he does not run away from him. And this is a completely different song.
                    Quote: Lannan Shi
                    You don't like something

                    I am twice as old as you. And only this is not at all "paw". It is you who are confusing me with someone close. But you don't understand that either.
                    Constant criticism of everyone and everything. At the same time, you are an expert in many issues of politics, education, medicine, etc. If someone disagrees with you, irritation and resentment are practically a personal enemy. You do not give others any right to their own opinion. is a sign of the onset of dementia.
    3. Nyrobsky
      Nyrobsky 20 November 2020 11: 24
      13
      Quote: nnm
      Well, what's the difference where the employer will deduct 22% - to the Pension Fund or to the budget?

      Well, here, as I understand it, the difference is that the "sweating" army of "hard workers" included in the staff of the PFR are supported by the same funds that ordinary hard workers transfer to their maintenance in old age. Well, the truth is, why is this gasket (PFR) needed between the state and the pensioner?
      1. nnm
        nnm 20 November 2020 12: 31
        -8
        Well, there will be no PFR, there will be a different structure for calculating pensions. It will not be called the PFR, but something else ...
        There will be no pads only with an individual accumulative pension account, when you deduct 22% for yourself and when you wanted, then you stopped working and live on these contributions.
        But there are also unemployed, disabled, other categories - they will still need government structures. But already in a much smaller state
        1. Nyrobsky
          Nyrobsky 20 November 2020 12: 52
          +9
          Quote: nnm
          Well, there will be no PFR, there will be a different structure for calculating pensions. It will not be called the PFR, but something else ...
          There will be no pads only with an individual accumulative pension account, when you deduct 22% for yourself and when you wanted, then you stopped working and live on these contributions.
          But there are also unemployed, disabled, other categories - they will still need government structures. But already in a much smaller state

          Why is it impossible to return to the Soviet pension system, which for decades worked "without losing" tens of billions of rubles on dubious fraudulent reforms? At the same time, I agree with you that it is possible to give the people the right to choose - to stay in the system, or to save for their old age on their own, but at the same time not count on the support of the state upon reaching retirement age.
          1. nnm
            nnm 20 November 2020 13: 02
            +3
            Well, in the USSR there was a similar structure, the same public consumption fund, social security and so on. People, on the other hand, did not consider their pension to themselves, they checked their experience, etc.
            The question is different - in the USSR the average pension was equal to about 50% of the salary, now it is about 37% and there are all tendencies to decrease.
            That is, with state pensions, an apparatus similar to the PFR will still exist, but it will be in the form of state institutions, for example.
            And billions are lost not because of the off-budget status of the FIU, but because of the lack of control and impunity.
            And any change in the organizational and legal status of the FIU will not lead to the disappearance of theft. It's like rearranging beds in a brothel.
    4. Hagen
      Hagen 20 November 2020 12: 27
      -14 qualifying.
      Quote: nnm
      Mironov suggests absolute stupidity

      One of the few intelligible comments. An institution that makes payments "from the wheels" and is subsidized in the required amounts from the budget cannot be bankrupt by definition. Mironov is simply warming up the electorate for the upcoming elections. And pension issues are hotter than ever. But even for that, such a statement is more than strange. It shows that Mironov himself considers the bulk of voters to be impenetrable dullards. And this is the jamb of his program.
      The mixed accumulation system is very common. And it is high time to promote it, although today it is quite possible to deposit additional funds from personal savings into your account in the Pension Fund of Russia. But a system of guarantees is needed so that, remembering how the zeroing of savings has already happened, the people could trust their state. This could be a guarantee of the government in the constitutional law, which could not be canceled simply by another act. As an option.
  • Svarog
    Svarog 20 November 2020 10: 10
    22
    Quote: Gene84
    Raising the retirement age is collapse. By this step, two years ago, the current government proved its inability to carry out social policy in the country.

    This is not an ability ... it is a deliberate action aimed at robbing the population with all the ensuing consequences ..
    1. Lexus
      Lexus 20 November 2020 20: 46
      +4
      The ultimate goal of the robbery is to get rid of "non-core assets", i.e. genocide.
  • GRIGORIY76
    GRIGORIY76 20 November 2020 11: 01
    10
    Quote: Gene84
    Raising the retirement age is collapse. By this step, two years ago, the current government proved its inability to carry out social policy in the country.

    She proved this long ago. And the pension reform showed that if there is no money, it will be taken from ordinary people.
  • Doccor18
    Doccor18 20 November 2020 17: 35
    +2
    In fact, his words mean that already in the near foreseeable future, millions of our compatriots may be left completely without a livelihood after going on a well-deserved rest ..

    What's so surprising here? Everything went to this. Pension money will not fall from the sky. These are deductions from citizens, working citizens. Working in the real sector of the economy. And these deductions were supposed to work under the strict control of the state for the real sector of the economy. After all, no one has canceled inflation ...
    What do we have in reality? The PFR has been turned into a semi-private shop, a real sector in a pipe, and for one worker there will soon be 4 pensioners and a dozen unemployed and dependents.
    So where to get funds for pensions ???
  • APASUS
    APASUS 20 November 2020 09: 53
    26
    Over the past 10 years, there have already been 3 pension reforms. What more proof of collapse is needed? The authorities are rushing about and looking for a way out, how to shift the financial issues of providing for the older generation to the citizens themselves. And so far only Olympiads, summits, forums are obtained ..................
    1. NDR-791
      NDR-791 20 November 2020 09: 59
      20
      And so far only Olympiads, summits, forums are obtained ...
      And the FIU is also good at it. We have closed the middleman for no reason. Although it is clear why - it is a feeder.
    2. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 20 November 2020 10: 17
      +6
      Quote: APASUS
      The authorities are rushing about and looking for a way out, how to shift the financial issues of providing for the older generation to the citizens themselves.

      As in one of the former republics the Minister of Health said "We do not need children and old people."
    3. Svarog
      Svarog 20 November 2020 10: 18
      13
      Quote: APASUS
      And so far only Olympiads, summits, forums are obtained.

      If only that .. In the USSR there were 3,5 million officials, the population was more than twice as large as it is now .. But now (according to various estimates) from 5 ml to 6 ml. officials, despite the fact that the speed of processing and transmitting information has grown significantly .. Only from the optimization of the bureaucratic apparatus it would have been possible not to raise the retirement age .. and the export of a trillion dollars over the past 15 years .. and nepotism and theft is universal ..
      1. paul3390
        paul3390 20 November 2020 10: 32
        25
        But it clears fragile brains ..

      2. your1970
        your1970 20 November 2020 10: 56
        -8
        Quote: Svarog
        But now (according to various estimates) from 5 ml to 6 ml. officials, despite the fact that the speed of processing and transmitting information has increased significantly.

        Share the secret of how officials breed? Apparently on a photocopier, yeah ...
        Come up with from shit figure (and not 10 million request ???) - it's convenient, why is there ...

        Rosreestr from 2010 to the present has been reduced by 40%, and now from 01.01.21/10/3 will be hidden by another 4%. In reality, this means that before in each district there was a Regpalata and a cadastral one - and now there are 5-2-XNUMX united districts per department. And as soon as in XNUMX years the archives are scanned and transferred to ex-territorial registration, the registrars will generally remain only at the regional level ... At the same time, they have been cut down greatly and will now be reduced
        Citizens are already howling - that there is no one to go to for advice, and what will happen next ...
        And this is reality .... I ("Damned bureaucrats and bureaucracy !!!") see this every day
        There were land committees in the administrations, to please the population, they were reduced to zero ... The bureaucrats were removed - the joy of soul and heart ...
        Now this population is running around with bulging eyes - "And we should assure / find a piece of paper !!!!", but bye, bye, there is no one, the powers of the Komzemov have not been transferred
      3. DrEng527
        DrEng527 20 November 2020 11: 33
        -4
        Quote: Svarog
        But now (according to various estimates) from 5 ml to 6 ml. officials

        better when there was such an army in the USSR? wink
      4. nnm
        nnm 20 November 2020 12: 46
        +2
        As of September 2019 - 2.4 million people
        https://www.rbc.ru/society/23/09/2019/5d8868bb9a7947414a3753bd
    4. Sling cutter
      Sling cutter 20 November 2020 10: 54
      19
      Quote: APASUS
      and in the last 10 years there have already been 3 pension reforms. What more proof of collapse is needed? The authorities are rushing about and looking for a way out, how to shift the financial issues of providing for the older generation to the citizens themselves. And so far only Olympiads, summits, forums

      Colleague hi The government does not rush at all, it initially did not give a damn about the citizens and is anti-people and the representatives of the authorities constantly talk about it.
      Until the people look the truth in the eye and build illusions about a good king, everything will only get worse.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Gene84
    Gene84 20 November 2020 09: 58
    28
    already in the near foreseeable future, millions of our compatriots may be left completely without a livelihood after retirement.

    In the foreseeable future, ours will sign (since the "guarantor" can only sign documents on raising the retirement age, but not reject it) may cancel the pension.
    1. Svarog
      Svarog 20 November 2020 10: 21
      +8
      Quote: Gene84
      already in the near foreseeable future, millions of our compatriots may be left completely without a livelihood after retirement.

      In the foreseeable future, ours will sign (since the "guarantor" can only sign documents on raising the retirement age, but not reject it) may cancel the pension.

      There are various rumors .. who says that the retirement age will return to the previous one, and who says the opposite will cancel pensions altogether. I am still inclined to think that due to fear and general impoverishment, they will return to their old retirement age.
      1. Roman070280
        Roman070280 20 November 2020 10: 50
        13
        I still inclined to thinkthat due to fear and general impoverishment, they will return to their old retirement age ..


        Hope dies last??)
        And how many such hopes have there been in more than 20 years ??
        They have no fear !! THESE - will not return anything to anyone !!
        1. Svarog
          Svarog 20 November 2020 10: 55
          +8
          Quote: Roman070280
          I still inclined to thinkthat due to fear and general impoverishment, they will return to their old retirement age ..


          Hope dies last??)
          And how many such hopes have there been in more than 20 years ??
          They have no fear !! THESE - will not return anything to anyone !!

          Perhaps naive .. but from the point of view of sound logic, when everything is in full operation, and the rating of zeroed out dangles between 7 and 15% .. they need to do something .. considering the fact that external pressure is also growing ..
          1. Roman070280
            Roman070280 20 November 2020 11: 36
            +8
            you need to do something.


            Voronezh residents will have to pay extra for the repair of yards

            Resolution establishing the procedure for co-financing by owners of premises in apartment buildings for improvement of courtyards

            Yard improvement will consist of two lists of works: minimum and additional. The minimum is financed exclusively from federal, regional and municipal budgets. It includes:

            repair of yard driveways;
            provision of lighting for courtyard areas;
            installation of benches, urns.
            The list of additional works includes:

            installation, repair of a children's playground, sports equipment, including furnishing, repair of rubber surfaces and fences;
            device, repair of road surfaces, sidewalks, parking spaces for vehicles belonging to the courtyard, taking into account the accessibility for the disabled and low-mobility groups of the population, manual marking of parking lots for low-mobility groups of citizens;
            device, repair of container sites;
            installation of lawn fences, as well as fences for front gardens in the courtyard;
            installation of clothes dryers, as well as a number of other works.
            Additional work, according to federal rules, provided for partial co-financing from the owners. Until this moment, Voronezh was limited to the feasible work of residents. Now co-financing will become mandatory - at least 20%.


            Shl .. We have introduced a fee for garbage .. Now it will be necessary to pay separately for the container site .. And tomorrow they will say to pay separately the salary to the driver of the garbage truck ..

            Children's playgrounds - first pay the developer .. then someone else 20% .. * hand-face *

            "device, repair of the covering of highways, sidewalks," - this is of course also necessary .. we pay little taxes, transport duties, excise taxes in gasoline .. while also paying separately for travel on federal highways ..


            So it's better to forget "from the point of view of common logic" here.
          2. Van 16
            Van 16 20 November 2020 12: 01
            +6
            "in terms of sound logic"
            Judging by all their actions, our "leaders" are not friendly with sound logic. And they are friends with a lust for power and a lust for money.
            Vladimir, do not hope, nothing will change, we have all the changes only for the worse.
          3. vladimirvn
            vladimirvn 20 November 2020 12: 21
            +2
            Quote: Svarog
            and the rating of the zeroed one hangs between 7 and 15% .. they need to do something ..

            Rating? laughing Don't tell my slippers. Lukashenka had just as much or even less. And this does not prevent him from being president until now.
      2. Alexander Kopychev
        Alexander Kopychev 20 November 2020 11: 29
        +5
        There are various rumors .. who says that the retirement age will return to the previous one, and who says the opposite will cancel pensions altogether. I am still inclined to think that due to fear and general impoverishment, they will return to their old retirement age.

        "Overton's Windows" are already opening - Mind! and Our everything! A. Wasserman has already spoken out at the Goblin's dead end that retirement is evil, because it is a burden for society. Ideally, Onatole believes that the elderly should be supported by their children. He, of course, expressed much softer and rounder, but I formulated the very idea precisely.
      3. Gene84
        Gene84 20 November 2020 17: 13
        22
        Quote: Svarog
        There are various rumors .. who says that the retirement age will return to the previous one

        Who is speaking? The first time I hear that. Mona's source find out?
        Quote: Svarog
        I still tend to think

        After the above, I doubt it ...
      4. Rudkovsky
        Rudkovsky 21 November 2020 00: 48
        0
        Out of fear? And who is afraid of YOU? The population of Russia took all the reforms and confirmed their loyalty in amusing votes for the "amendments". So no one is afraid of anyone, and for special cases there is the National Guard) They do not spare resources for it, so they will quickly explain to indignant Russians what they are wrong about.
    2. Trapp1st
      Trapp1st 20 November 2020 11: 24
      +3
      can cancel the pension.
      You can also abolish free education, medicine and social services, then there will be savings, though not for long, and it will be stolen very quickly.
      1. Roman070280
        Roman070280 20 November 2020 12: 06
        +8
        Well, this is already just shareware for a long time.
        10 years ago, when I brought my daughter to grade 1 on September 1, the first thing I did was donate 1000 rubles for something .. Forms, textbooks, and so on and so forth .. Institutes / technical schools are also mostly paid for a long time ..
        About free medicine .. this is only for grannies who have time to sit and who have nowhere to go due to lack of money ..
        Osteochondrosis, dentist, ophthalmologist, heart - everything has to be done for a fee ..
        And the number of different "Vita-centers", etc. - speaks for itself ..
    3. Varyag71
      Varyag71 20 November 2020 11: 33
      +5
      Everything goes to this.
  • Varyag71
    Varyag71 20 November 2020 09: 58
    10
    No one doubted it. The FIU is a financial pyramid, legalized by the state.
  • Kronos
    Kronos 20 November 2020 09: 59
    -3
    Alexander Kharaluzhny is again trying to smear the authorities.
  • Not_invented
    Not_invented 20 November 2020 10: 00
    13
    The reasons for the mourning state of the pension fund are clear to everyone, but within the framework of the current system of government administration they are insoluble. There are two reasons for this:
    1) Theft.
    2) A monstrous number of beneficiaries of all stripes.
    While the conditional school teacher has been paying money to the Pension Fund for 40 years in order to die without retirement, the conditional secretary in the department of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, who saw the criminal only on TV, will come out after 20 years of service, and will receive a pension in the amount of two teachers. So it turns out that two teachers are needed for each secretary, and three for each private contractor. What can we say about those military who really take part in hostilities. Although they deserved their decent pension and early exit, they did not earn it. In the sense that their contributions to the Pension Fund for the years of service for the amount of pension paid to them later will not be nearly enough.
    So it turns out that the money goes to the Pension Fund of the Russian Federation, but they are still not enough.
    1. nov_tech.vrn
      nov_tech.vrn 20 November 2020 10: 13
      +3
      Andrei, do not confuse warm with soft, pensioners of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and military pensioners have nothing to do with the pension fund, they served their contract, and payments are made to them in the budget of the department, in which they are planned in advance. On the contrary, the pension fund tried to put its paw on it, so that from there it would have its own interest.
      1. Lannan Shi
        Lannan Shi 20 November 2020 10: 26
        13
        Quote: nov_tech.vrn
        Andrei, do not confuse warm with soft, pensioners of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and military pensioners have nothing to do with the pension fund, they have served their contracts, and payments are made to them in the budget of the department, to which they are planned in advance.

        There is only one subtle point. When they say that the Pension Fund is unprofitable, and that there were no options to raise the retirement age, the main argument is the size of the transfer from the budget to the Pension Fund. But the fact that this transfer includes military pensions, and much more, in fact, does not belong to the pensions of ordinary people ... And in fact, the deficit in pensions itself is negligible, against the background of the budget ... silence. I personally see this situation as attempts by the state to shift its obligations, not related to pensions, onto the shoulders of pensioners. yes
        1. nov_tech.vrn
          nov_tech.vrn 20 November 2020 23: 03
          0
          For those who are on an armored train, departmental military pensions are not transferred through the pension fund, a beautiful word is transfer. A bank transfer (transfer) is a transfer of money between accounts of one or different banks. The pension fund does not have enough funds that employers allocate to it and income from the assets of the pension fund itself to fulfill the obligations of the state to pensioners whom this very fund serves and funds to support the activities of the fund itself, and the state transfers this difference to it. The costs of the activities of this very fund are enormous, so they periodically offer to get rid of them.
    2. Sling cutter
      Sling cutter 20 November 2020 10: 44
      10
      Quote: Not_invented
      There are two reasons for this:
      1) Theft.
      2) A monstrous number of beneficiaries of all stripes.

      Colleague, if theft is ruled out in our pseudo state, then there will be enough money for everyone, even if the whole country becomes beneficiaries, and moreover, every citizen can be absolutely free to pay natural rent.
      1. your1970
        your1970 20 November 2020 11: 57
        -5
        Quote: Stroporez
        to exclude theft, then there will be enough money for everyone, even if the whole country becomes beneficiaries and, moreover, every citizen can be absolutely free to pay natural rent.

        In the USSR, pensions were small - they were enough, but they were small.
        There was no theft of budget money in the USSR.
        Nevertheless, there was not enough money not only for natural rent and for at least a small increase in pensions. By the end of the USSR, only the disabled and veterans of the Second World War were added ...
        And this is in the people's USSR ...
        1. Sling cutter
          Sling cutter 20 November 2020 15: 42
          +6
          Quote: your1970
          Nevertheless, there was not enough money not only for natural rent and for at least a small increase in pensions. By the end of the USSR, only the disabled and veterans of the Second World War were added ...
          And this is in the people's USSR ...

          And first
          Quote: your1970
          In the USSR, pensions were small - they were enough, but they were small.
          There was no theft of budget money in the USSR.

          Colleague, the USSR is no longer 30 years old and during these 30 years have you come up with something better than the USSR?
          1. your1970
            your1970 20 November 2020 20: 58
            -1
            there was enough money for CITIZENS - but the state lacked not only for rent, but even for an increase in pensions. In the 80s, they added veterans and disabled war veterans and that's all ..
  • Woodman
    Woodman 20 November 2020 10: 01
    +1
    ... He also called the pension insurance introduced during the reform process "cannibalistic" on the grounds that it "takes away 22% of the income of legally working Russians."

    "Truly solid guarantees," from Mironov's point of view, will give Russians who honestly worked their entire lives only a return to direct retirement benefits from the treasury, without any "unnecessary intermediaries."

    Well, the fact that any intermediary only makes the process more expensive is understandable. And pensions "from the treasury" are also correct. But where is there any calculation on the topic of how many percent of earnings will be taken by the treasury for pensions, what other sources for this security will be involved and, most importantly, how (in numbers) this will affect pensions. And where it is planned to employ the same employees of the current FIU. Without such calculations, even despite the reputation of the FIU (which is below the baseboard), such statements look like populism. Sounds tempting though.
    1. NDR-791
      NDR-791 20 November 2020 10: 04
      +6
      But where is there any calculation on the topic of how many percent of earnings will be taken by the treasury for pensions, what other sources for this security will be involved and, most importantly, how (in numbers) this will affect pensions.
      If you return to the old system, then you don't need to count - get the folder out of the cabinet and blow off the dust. Correct along the way.
      And where is it planned to employ the same employees of the current FIU
      For road construction, at least.
      1. your1970
        your1970 20 November 2020 11: 11
        -5
        Quote: NDR-791
        For road construction, at least.

        From 01.06.21 we have completely liquidated the regional branch of the PFR. Composition - women from 25 to pensioners, men only 1 - computer technician
        How many roads women will tune? !!!
        Anticipating your cry, “they will go to the social security!” - no, all operations with pensions will go to the regional center 300 km away, and in the social security all places are firmly occupied ...
        And now future pensioners will knock around or write there ...
        And, there’s a building ...
        The administration categorically denied it - there is no extra money for maintenance, the traders do not need it (although the place is in the center, it is not a trade, not a boycott) ..
        So the Russian Federation, as the owner, will drag the empty building and maintain it ...
        There are 7 such liquidants in our region ...
        1. NDR-791
          NDR-791 20 November 2020 11: 21
          +4
          So the Russian Federation, as the owner, will drag the empty building and maintain it ...

          1. So they will demolish and build housing!
          Composition - women from 25 to pensioners, men only 1 - computer technician
          2. And how many of them there are poor, unfortunate people who receive salary for the absolute absence of surplus value?
          And now future pensioners will knock around or write there ...
          3. No need to knock around, you need to open the site or ask your grandson if you can't. And if it is useless to write, then there is no difference.
          There are 7 such liquidants in our region ...
          4. Point 2 to multiply by 7, that's all.
          5. They cannot build roads, let the snow be cleaned. Or they go where they sent everyone themselves (to retraining courses), maybe that will work out
          1. your1970
            your1970 20 November 2020 11: 35
            -6
            1) it is pointless to demolish - the city is small, there is already enough space, and the people of humanity will not rush to build
            2)
            Quote: NDR-791
            absolute absence of surplus value?
            oops .... And the military / scientists theorists / the disabled / doctors / teachers / astronauts / pensioners produce a lot of surplus value ??? !!!
            12 people, the maximum salary of the chief is 26 pipes, the rest have 15-16 maximum, there are even 9 ...
            3)
            Quote: NDR-791
            No need to knock around, you need to open a website or ask your grandson if you can't.
            - if you have a grandson ...
            We have a lot of people going to ATMs with a piece of paper with a pin code and asking people to pay, because they don't understand, why should you fill it in ... And you are the site ..
            4)
            Quote: NDR-791
            They can't build roads, let the snow be cleaned
            - so the most unpleasant thing for you is they will go to the stock exchange and receive benefits from the budget, albeit not for long ...
            1. NDR-791
              NDR-791 20 November 2020 12: 17
              +4
              I don't even know what to say here ... belay
              If your scientist theorists and cosmonauts do not bring direct profit, then you do not possess information from the word at all.
              If you treat teachers, doctors, and the military as freeloaders around the neck of the state, then you can start feeding someone else's army right now.
              To your reductions, I would also add the State Duma in its entirety and many others.
              And at the expense of all of them, he brought pensioners and disabled people to an acceptable level.
              And somehow the statement of the question is painfully familiar to me ...
              Seems to me that liberalism is a disease, and neglected.
              1. your1970
                your1970 20 November 2020 14: 03
                -2
                Quote: NDR-791
                If you treat teachers, doctors, and the military as freeloaders around the neck of the state, then you can start feeding someone else's army right now.

                Actually it's personal YOU started pushing pro
                Quote: NDR-791
                who receive salary for absolute absence of surplus value?


                Quote: NDR-791
                Seems to me that liberalism is a disease, and neglected.
                - first of all, take an interest in the meaning of the word liberalism ... And then your slogans about reductions just smell strongly of liberalism
    2. nov_tech.vrn
      nov_tech.vrn 20 November 2020 10: 25
      +3
      they will be employed after the reorganization, they will continue to accrue pensions. But as for the palaces, I myself had to somehow visit, but not a hut, and I especially agree that the leaders of this outrage should be freed from the burden of exorbitant salaries.
    3. Roman070280
      Roman070280 20 November 2020 11: 18
      +6
      where at least some calculation on how much percent of earnings the treasury will take


      The average income of the population of the Russian Federation in 2018 was 32 rubles per month.
      22% of deductions = 7180 rubles per month ..
      86156 rubles per year.
      from 20 to 65 years old - 3877038 rubles. paid to the FIU

      The average life expectancy in Russia for men is 68 years.
      (here it is just right to remember the phrase "If we put the retirement age at 65, you will excuse me for the simplicity of expression, it worked, in a wooden mac - and went? It's impossible!"
      But, as we can see, nothing is impossible with this president ... therefore, let's get back to the calculations ..

      For 36 months in retirement, you need to receive 3877038 rubles ...
      107696 rubles per month .. This is exactly what the average pension should be (for men)

      In nominal terms, the average pension amounted to 14 rubles and increased by 980% compared to April 5,9.

      I think everyone will be able to answer the question on their own - how much percent of earnings the treasury takes NOW ..
      1. your1970
        your1970 20 November 2020 11: 44
        -9
        Quote: Roman070280
        I think everyone will be able to answer the question on their own - how much percent of earnings the treasury takes NOW ..
        - you to the bookkeeper who thought this crazy raving, remind me that the salary is 32 635 2000-m for example, a year - I was with the oligarchs ... for example, I received 1 and was a fairly wealthy person (gasoline cost 700 ruble, 1 kopecks)
        And what will happen in 10 years is unknown ... Maybe 32 635 will be the cost of rolls of toilet paper

        Rare nonsense will write and are happy ... you would have stolen this figure during the times of the USSR
        1. Roman070280
          Roman070280 20 November 2020 11: 54
          +6
          you to the bookkeeper who thought this crazy raving

          I myself thought .. I do not trust violent madmen ..

          a salary of 32 in 635, for example, was the oligarchs ...


          The AVERAGE pension in 2000 was also 15 thousand ?? Or was it correlated with those salaries at that time ??

          And what will happen in 10 years is unknown ...

          For this, the average figures for the CURRENT moment are calculated.

          Maybe 32 will be the cost of toilet rolls


          It has nothing to do with calculations ..
          Inflation is at least 1000% .. we multiply everything by 10 times - the ratio of salaries, contributions to the Pension Fund of Russia and the received pension remains without changes!!



          Rare delirium will write and are happy ..

          Brad is written by those who smoke math at school and do not understand what he read ..
          1. your1970
            your1970 20 November 2020 13: 56
            -3
            Then calculate the size deductions in 2000 from my
            Quote: your1970
            For example, I received 1 700

            From 2000 rubles deductions to year in 2000 - your 100 thousand pensions in month now do not stretch in any way


            Quote: Roman070280
            we multiply everything 10 times - the ratio of salary, deductions to the Pension Fund and the received pension remains unchanged !!

            Here, too, the numbers do not beat
            1. Roman070280
              Roman070280 20 November 2020 14: 15
              +3
              Since 2000 rubles of deductions per year in 2000, your 100 thousand pensions per month are now not stretched in any way


              And at the time of deductions from 2000 rubles, pensions were NOT supposed to be 100 thousandths !!
              Why are you pulling an owl on a globe ??
              I specifically gave below the calculation without digits at all .. with a conditional variable ..

              Yesterday I received a salary .. today they transferred 22% to the Pension Fund .. Tomorrow my parents have a pension .. Where is the money ??
              In 2000 it was the same .. only the numbers are different ..

              Here, too, the numbers do not beat

              This is not yours.
              And the ratio of wages, contributions to the Pension Fund and the received pension remains unchanged !! Always!!
              For any salary, any year ..
              22% to the FIU comes from the AVERAGE salary - they must give the same money back as a pension.

              I wrote down how much comes in and how much comes back from the FIU .. 7 times less !!
        2. Roman070280
          Roman070280 20 November 2020 12: 14
          +4
          You would have stolen this figure for the times of the USSR


          For those who are very far away, let's make it easier.

          The average income of the population of the Russian Federation is Х rubles per month.
          22% deductions = Х* 22% RUB per month ..
          12 *Х* 22% RUB per year.
          from 20 to 65 years old - 119 *Х rub. paid to the FIU

          The average life expectancy in Russia for men is 68 years.
          For 36 months of retirement, you need to get 119 *Х rub..
          3,3 *Х rub .. per month .. This is exactly what the average pension should be (for men)

          Value Х you can substitute it yourself .. as you can see, the calculations do not depend on him at all (the more salary - the more is paid to the FIU - the more the FIU must eventually return pensions), and the percentage of stolen goods from the people also does not change ..
          1. Foul skeptic
            Foul skeptic 20 November 2020 13: 55
            +2
            Your calculations are not correct for real original
            119 * X - here neither 119 is const, nor X is not const.
            The first is influenced by the demographic situation and the employment situation, the second - by the demographic situation, the employment situation and inflation.
            1. Roman070280
              Roman070280 20 November 2020 14: 26
              +3
              I do not apply for the post of Minister of Economy ..
              Of course, the calculation on the knee in 5 minutes should not reflect the situation for which hundreds of thousands of people work in the FIU ..))
              But this does not change the main point .. 7 times less the FIU gives to people than it receives .. (even with an error .. essno that I do not take into account a bunch of all kinds of expenses, including for the very maintenance of the FIU ... )
              Just dry numbers

              119 * X - here neither 119 is const, nor X is not const.

              119 consists of the number of months and 22% of deductions - this coefficient is just conditionally constant .. (before the increase in the pension age it was different .. but we are considering the situation that has developed when a person works up to 65 years old)

              And we don't need X const .. We count for today !! Even if - for the current year .. From here we know how much goes to the FIU during the year .. and how much comes back from there .. Returns 7 times less ..

              Further (if desired) we can go back a year / five / ten years ago - see what was there .. We will see the same picture !! The constant here is that, from year to year, the FIU takes many times more than people are able to receive afterwards.

              demographic situation, employment situation and inflation

              Neither the demographic nor the employment situation changes CONSTANTLY 7 times .. and CONSTANTLY only in one direction ..))
              Inflation is not an indicator here either .. Money arrives at the Pension Fund today, is paid tomorrow .. (who is more convenient - the day after tomorrow / in a month / even in a year)
              But my father / mother certainly does not receive a pension from the contributions that they did in 2000 ..
              1. Foul skeptic
                Foul skeptic 20 November 2020 15: 00
                +1
                119 is made up of the number of months

                Only on what basis did you make the assumption about the duration of the official labor activity of the entire population of 540 months?
                Money is received by the Pension Fund today, paid tomorrow .. (for whom it is more convenient - the day after tomorrow / in a month / in a year even) But certainly my father / mother receives a pension not from the contributions that they did in 2000 ..

                So then, today from an average salary of 79 million people in your country paid 7180x79 = 000 rubles to the Pension Fund, and tomorrow 000 million pensioners paid 567/220 = 000 rubles from them. pensions.
                Otherwise, you mixed the conditions of the accumulative and solidarity systems in one calculation and you don't understand what.
                1. Foul skeptic
                  Foul skeptic 20 November 2020 15: 21
                  +2
                  And I went too far with 79 million, confusing the able-bodied with the employed. The 73 million figure is closer to the truth.
                  1. Roman070280
                    Roman070280 20 November 2020 15: 53
                    0
                    today from an average salary 79 million people paid to the Pension Fund 7180x79 = 000 rubles, and tomorrow

                    And tomorrow, half of these retirees have already died ... without having time to get more of what they themselves earned yesterday ..
                    This is if you consider this option!
                    And so in a circle .. "today" (several years) I cry - and "tomorrow" some of them died before they even lived, some live only a little longer ..

                    You shouldn't be so busy with calculations ..
                    If I transferred to the Pension Fund 7 times more than I received before my death - the money went somewhere .. it's a fact !!

                    mixed in one calculation the conditions of the accumulative and solidarity systems and got you don’t understand what.
                    It was just that they were separated so that no one would understand anything ..))
                    And I just wrote in two columns .. income and expense ..
                    1. Foul skeptic
                      Foul skeptic 20 November 2020 16: 20
                      +3
                      If I transferred to the Pension Fund 7 times more than I received before my death - the money went somewhere .. it's a fact !!

                      Of course it's a fact. They went to pay pensions for retirees during the period of your work activity. Including your mom and dad. Maybe this will brighten up the bitterness a little))
                2. Roman070280
                  Roman070280 20 November 2020 15: 46
                  +2
                  Only on what basis did you accept assumption on the duration of the official labor activity of the entire population in 540 months?


                  Just an assumption .. you have to push with something ..
                  I wrote it - it's just an estimate .. rough .. But the order of the numbers is close ..

                  So then, today from an average salary of 79 million people in your country paid 7180x79 = 000 rubles to the Pension Fund, and tomorrow 000 million pensioners paid 567/220 = 000 rubles from them. pensions.


                  Well, not so ..)) This would be true if the terms of work and retirement are equal .. how many years you work, so much you live in retirement .. This is not taken into account in your calculation ..

                  "Today" is exactly the number of months that a person works - from 20 to 65 years .. (for simplicity, we will leave such work activity)
                  And our "tomorrow" lasts only three years - 36 months .. (with an average life of up to 68 years)


                  the conditions of the accumulative and solidarity systems and did not get what.
                  Mixed up, yes .. But I got the numbers right !!
                  The state does not divide its tax money (and there are dozens of them) according to shelves.
                  What a person pays at the same time is spent by the state in different directions .. but the state's receipts from different directions come from the person ..

                  Once again - this is not some kind of dissertation .. "mixed" here solely for ease of understanding .. debit-credit ..
                  How much a person paid for his life - how much he eventually managed to get .. No more ..

                  There is no need to "stir" anything in order to understand a simple thing - in 3 years (from 65 to 68 - the average figures for the Russian Federation), no one will have time to get everything "worked out" and paid earlier for 45 years, with an average pension of 15 thousand. ...
                  1. Foul skeptic
                    Foul skeptic 20 November 2020 16: 08
                    +1
                    Well, not so ..)) This would be true if the terms of work and retirement are equal .. how many years you work, so much you live in retirement .. This is not taken into account in your calculation ..

                    "Today" is exactly the number of months that a person works - from 20 to 65 years .. (for simplicity, we will leave such work activity)
                    And our "tomorrow" lasts only three years - 36 months .. (with an average life of up to 68 years)

                    Like your words.
                    Money is received by the Pension Fund today, paid tomorrow .. (who is more comfortable - the day after tomorrow / in a month / even in a year)
                    But my father / mother certainly does not receive a pension from the contributions that they did in 2000 ..

                    You did not understand this and continue the mishmash of solidary and accumulative systems in reasoning.
                    Because "today" and "tomorrow" under the solidarity system, this is not what you wrote, it is precisely today and precisely tomorrow, so on them and bring income and expenses (I have already done for you above.)
    4. SVD68
      SVD68 20 November 2020 20: 29
      0
      Quote: Lesovik
      And where it is planned to employ the same employees of the current FIU.

      There, where it is planned to employ muchin from 60 to 65 years old and women from 55 to 60 years old.
  • Tiksi-3
    Tiksi-3 20 November 2020 10: 01
    +6
    and who went out to protest against the pension reform with an increase in age, or when service in the universities of the USSR was canceled in service? .... I did not go out ((... I regret ...
    1. _Sergei_
      _Sergei_ 20 November 2020 11: 35
      +2
      When the retirement age was raised, the communists organized a meeting here. There were 15 of them, whom this law did not even concern. On the other hand, across the street, the Fragrant Hops firm, which sold beer, was holding a lottery. There were about 10 thousand people who were affected by this law. The car could not be parked in the area that day, everything was busy.
  • tarabar
    tarabar 20 November 2020 10: 07
    +1
    And I live, I earn, I am slowly putting aside my stash, this will be my pension. Fully count on the state, in our situation, you have to be either a fool or an immense optimist. And if in the future some kind of gesheft also arrives from the Pension Fund of Russia, then let it be a pleasant surprise, because I'll be ready for the worst.
    PS I pay taxes regularly, I don't wander around shady back streets.
    1. mat-vey
      mat-vey 20 November 2020 10: 23
      +9
      Quote: tarabar
      And I live, I earn, I am slowly putting aside my stash, this will be my pension.

      I remember my father-in-law had 11 thousand rubles with something ... in 1989 ...
      1. tarabar
        tarabar 20 November 2020 10: 26
        +2
        No, no, the stash is not under the pillow, but quite tangible and liquid assets, including those that bring investment income.
        1. mat-vey
          mat-vey 20 November 2020 10: 27
          +6
          Quote: tarabar
          No, no, the stash is not under the pillow, but quite tangible and liquid assets, including those that bring investment income.

          This all works in a stable state ...
        2. bk0010
          bk0010 20 November 2020 11: 43
          +6
          Quote: tarabar
          but quite tangible and liquid assets
          And what, if not a secret? Nedvig in Moscow? There will be a mess, Shvonder will come and order to make room in the order of self-discipline. Stocks, bonds are even worse: no mess will be needed, there will just be another 2008. Gold? A good option. But look how much it cost under Clinton. And nothing prevents us from making its price the same again, since the price of gold is determined in London by several families. I don't see long term safe assets today. And it's a pity: all my life I gave 22% of income for the well-being of officials of the pension fund, or what?
          1. Stirbjorn
            Stirbjorn 20 November 2020 12: 18
            +1
            Quote: bk0010
            Nedvig in Moscow?

            Rather, abroad .. the amount of income was not disclosed to you, maybe it's some kind of middle-class official. He bought an apartment somewhere in Europe and rents it.
            Why does he need your pension ?! wassat
            1. bk0010
              bk0010 20 November 2020 12: 21
              +3
              Quote: Stirbjorn
              Rather abroad ..
              This is now an even more risky asset: remember the adventures of our glavchukchi (he completely forgot his last name, he bought Chelsea) in London. There was real estate, fucking - and no, there was a residence permit - and tyutyu, the triumph of justice, however.
              1. Stirbjorn
                Stirbjorn 20 November 2020 12: 33
                +2
                Quote: bk0010
                This is now an even more risky asset: remember the adventures of our glavchukchi (he completely forgot his last name, he bought Chelsea) in London. There was real estate, fucking - and no, there was a residence permit - and tyutyu, the triumph of justice, however.

                Well, the oligarch, there is something for the local authorities to profit from ... and those who are simpler are not touched, such as "the right to private property." Vaughn Brilev, a British citizen, works quietly for RTR. And you can invest where it is calmer, Switzerland is the same (Klishas), or Italy (Soloviev)
      2. Svarog
        Svarog 20 November 2020 10: 27
        +7
        Quote: mat-vey
        Quote: tarabar
        And I live, I earn, I am slowly putting aside my stash, this will be my pension.

        I remember my father-in-law had 11 thousand rubles with something ... in 1989 ...

        You definitely noticed it .. saving for retirement on your own in our country, given the regular collapse of the ruble and all kinds of crises .. it's not only risky, but also not prudent .. the safest thing is to buy dollars and euros and store them under a mattress .. but that's a lot risk ...
        1. mat-vey
          mat-vey 20 November 2020 10: 30
          +3
          Quote: Svarog
          given the regular collapse of the ruble and all kinds of crises.

          If only a "collapse" ... instability in everything and the complete unpredictability of new laws and initiatives (though they are aimed stably at one thing, but that's why you won't save anything)
        2. ycuce234-san
          ycuce234-san 20 November 2020 20: 06
          +1
          A ban on transactions on correspondent non-ruble foreign accounts is already in the next package of sanctions (Menendez Russia Sanctions Bill). They will be "unbanned" slowly, as is customary, after 80-90 years, and there will be enough leftovers from inflation on the foreign exchange savings bank for descendants-heirs to buy a cheap drink bottle. Well, other currencies will tighten. For legal entities, such measures are ugh, since for them, for half a century, there have been special intermediaries in the world to overcome such barriers, and for individuals, with the full implementation of a package of this type of measures: the actual loss of savings within the horizon of life, conversion of foreign currency deposits, a ban circulation of currency in the country, cutting down to almost zero imported consumer goods and services, travel (goodbye, Turkish resorts and German cars), unless medical equipment and medicines will be purchased, and other "delights". In fact, an "iron curtain" will fall outside, only of an economic type: it will be impossible to leave, not because entry will be legally prohibited, but because there will be no money of the required type on hand, in cash or non-cash, and tickets will simply not be sold.
    2. Stirbjorn
      Stirbjorn 20 November 2020 10: 47
      +8
      Quote: tarabar
      And I live, I earn, I am slowly putting aside my stash, this will be my pension. Fully count on the state, in our situation, you have to be either a fool or an immense optimist. And if in the future some kind of gesheft also arrives from the Pension Fund of Russia, then let it be a pleasant surprise, because I'll be ready for the worst.
      PS I pay taxes regularly, I don't wander around shady back streets.

      You are an ideal citizen from the point of view of the current state hi
      1. Svarog
        Svarog 20 November 2020 10: 58
        +7
        Quote: Stirbjorn
        Quote: tarabar
        And I live, I earn, I am slowly putting aside my stash, this will be my pension. Fully count on the state, in our situation, you have to be either a fool or an immense optimist. And if in the future some kind of gesheft also arrives from the Pension Fund of Russia, then let it be a pleasant surprise, because I'll be ready for the worst.
        PS I pay taxes regularly, I don't wander around shady back streets.

        You are an ideal citizen from the point of view of the current state hi

        I think this is a broadcast to the masses of the image of an ideal citizen ...
        1. The comment was deleted.
  • deniso
    deniso 20 November 2020 10: 08
    +6
    And the hell are you, gentlemen, deputies, looked? Who voted to approve all these reforms? If they failed, the deputies should be the first to dissolve themselves. Especially, Mr. Mironov, who has been fooling citizens for 20 years, imitating opposition activities, but always voting "the right way." So who's mooing ...
  • And
    And 20 November 2020 10: 08
    +5
    "! takes away 22% of the income of legally working Russians" - at the same time he tactfully kept silent that those who earn more than 1 million a month pay only 10% - it is clear that they need money more than a simple hard worker.
  • alal.andreewaandreeva
    alal.andreewaandreeva 20 November 2020 10: 08
    +4
    Who just thought of raising the retirement age. Now 35-year-olds are already falling apart, after working 24/7 and all kinds of mortgages ... It's just a shame. Terribly embarrassing. And then I still have to google the list of drugs (I personally look here https://medvisor.ru/medicine/) To somehow survive. Nightmare.
    1. sergo1914
      sergo1914 20 November 2020 11: 26
      +4
      Quote: alal.andreewaandreeva
      Who just thought of raising the retirement age. Now 35-year-olds are already falling apart, after working 24/7 and all kinds of mortgages ... It's just a shame. Terribly embarrassing. And then I still have to google the list of drugs (I personally look here https://medvisor.ru/medicine/) To somehow survive. Nightmare.


      How much did you pay for unobtrusive advertising? At the same time, let us tell you how you can increase your pension on bets in bookmakers.
  • deniso
    deniso 20 November 2020 10: 09
    +2
    When thieves are in charge of finances in Russia, no matter how you reform the pension system, theft will not stop anyway.

    But still, the discussed idea deserves attention.
    For, it will allow plugging holes from this theft of pension money not with the money of the pensioners themselves, but with budget money. And then let this Budget figure it out on its own: who stole, how and how much, and also how much he can be pursued.
    ... but pensioners, who are not forced to make up for the stolen goods, will end up with money.

    But this is the biggest disadvantage of this idea - who in Vertical Russia will allow eliminating such a cool and well-oiled mechanism of theft like the Pension Fund?
    1. your1970
      your1970 20 November 2020 11: 14
      -4
      Quote: denis obuckov
      But this is the biggest disadvantage of this idea - who in Vertical Russia will allow eliminating such a cool and well-oiled mechanism of theft like the Pension Fund?

      They are already being liquidated .. In our region, regional PFRs are being reduced ..
      1. your1970
        your1970 20 November 2020 20: 33
        -1
        minusers - once again - unas in the region reduce the regional PFR ... completely ... to zero ... in half of the districts - while the state the remaining are ALSO reduced
      2. your1970
        your1970 20 November 2020 22: 52
        -1
        I wonder ... Cons against the liquidation of the FIU or do they not like me?
        1. d4rkmesa
          d4rkmesa 21 November 2020 14: 52
          -1
          It won't work that way. The average layman, who is not able to add 2 + 2, unpleasant things cause itching in the priest and the desire to put a "minus" truth-teller.
  • Rubi0
    Rubi0 20 November 2020 10: 12
    -7
    This is something for which I have been minus here more than once, cancel this pyramid mmm in the end and don’t give the public minds free money in the form of pensions. Everyone earned what they earned.
    1. mat-vey
      mat-vey 20 November 2020 10: 16
      +8
      Quote: Rubi0
      free money in the form of pensions

      The fact that a pension "freebie" can only be declared by a fool or a thief.
      1. Rubi0
        Rubi0 20 November 2020 10: 30
        -6
        What's wrong? Your current deductions are used to pay the pensions of the grandmothers thrown by the USSR to the mercy of fate, you don’t postpone, don’t donate to the accumulation fund, which means you expect that after 60 someone will do the same to you for free for thanks. For example, I don't want to deduct you, I'd rather support them under the pillow or just squander them. Workers' solidarity, like the solidarity pension system, should have been abolished back in 91 with the collapse of the solidary state
        1. mat-vey
          mat-vey 20 November 2020 10: 32
          +1
          Well this is it.
        2. mat-vey
          mat-vey 20 November 2020 10: 56
          +3
          Well, this is theft.
          The site is pork and swallows words.
        3. bk0010
          bk0010 20 November 2020 11: 48
          +4
          Quote: Rubi0
          What's wrong? Your current deductions are used to pay pensions to grandmothers thrown by the USSR to the mercy of fate /
          And it’s not the case that our current contributions go to our pension. The fact that the pension fund is using them to pay today's pensions is its internal affair. How officials cope with the fulfillment of their current obligations is not our question, they do not cope - get out of office and under investigation, and not raise the retirement age or the percentage of deductions.
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. Rubi0
            Rubi0 20 November 2020 15: 01
            -1
            So why do you need officials at all? Want to postpone, do not want to postpone ... Why do you need this useless layer.
    2. alekc75
      alekc75 20 November 2020 12: 22
      0
      when did you hatch ??? hard worker, dry your sweat !!
  • prior
    prior 20 November 2020 10: 20
    +3
    Another attempt to "rearrange the beds in a brothel" once again will NOT lead to anything.
    Do not expect good from the criminal authorities.
    So every official - Men, Voronenkov, Ulyukaev, Vasilyeva .......
  • BAI
    BAI 20 November 2020 10: 23
    15
    The party leader, using the parliamentary tribune, made a statement about the complete failure of the government pension reform and the inevitable bankruptcy of the Russian Pension Fund. In fact, his words mean that already in the near foreseeable future, millions of our compatriots may be left completely without a livelihood after retirement.

    Discovery of America. This is obvious to everyone and everyone has been talking about it for a long time. Recently, the following was announced: "Those who are under 40 should not count on a state pension, but should take care of their savings for old age on their own." Those. in 25 years the pension system will collapse. And this is against the background of China, which in the memory of many here was a backward, impoverished country.
    Program "The World Inside Out". The boy wanders around the world at public expense and communicates with the local people. Well, like the "Film Travel Club". And he was brought to China. City Park. There are a lot of people. Everyone is engaged in physical education, sports equipment is everywhere in the park. The bulk of the "athletes" are old retirees. The boy goes to get acquainted: How old? 82. How do you live, do you have enough pension? I live well, my pension is enough. What is the pension? $ 900.
    The kid went nuts, went on: How old? 79. What is the pension? 700 dollars. More, to the next: How old? 81. What is the pension? 1000 dollars. And so for everyone in a row - both age and pension (below 700 he did not find, above 1000 - too).
    And in Russia the average pension is 10141 rubles - 150 dollars.
    Those. in the life of one generation (both in Russia and in China), China rose from poverty to a superpower, and Russia descended into poverty from a superpower (USSR).
    1. Stirbjorn
      Stirbjorn 20 November 2020 11: 18
      +4
      Quote: BAI
      The kid went nuts, went on: How old? 79. What is the pension? 700 dollars. More, to the next: How old? 81. What is the pension? 1000 dollars. And so for everyone in a row - both age and pension (below 700 he did not find, above 1000 - too).

      Hooray patriots claim that there are no pensions in China at all
      Quote: BAI
      and Russia sank into poverty from a superpower (USSR).
      Again, for the above-mentioned group of people, superpower lies in bases abroad, such as now in Sudan it will be, wow!
    2. your1970
      your1970 20 November 2020 11: 21
      -10 qualifying.
      The guy is lying as he breathes, or in the park he met some oligarchs / state officials ...
      Firstly, until now, many in China do not receive pensions at all, no ... And secondly, having an average salary in China of $ 250, it is impossible to receive a pension of 1000 ...
      The most likely option is to lie to the camera ... Just in case .. lol lol ..
      1. BAI
        BAI 20 November 2020 13: 25
        +5
        It is wrong to deny inconvenient facts if they do not fit into your own worldview system. We must not discard the facts, but change the system.
        1. your1970
          your1970 20 November 2020 23: 18
          -1
          Quote: BAI
          It is wrong to deny inconvenient facts if they do not fit into your own worldview system. We must not discard the facts, but change the system.

          That is, their salary in China was about $ 1,5-2 before retirement ??? Oh well...
          And the whole world is bursting with the USA, where there are not so many such salaries ..
          But the most anecdote is that these types of "old people - rich pensioners" have retired - when? Correctly in late 20th centurywhen the current relatively large salaries and a hint in China were not ...
          Quote: BAI
          79

          Quote: BAI
          81

          I believe, what’s already there ... And you believe such balabol boys (mate, one mate) ...
      2. d4rkmesa
        d4rkmesa 21 November 2020 14: 56
        0
        "with an average salary in China of $ 250" - your data is out of date.
        1. your1970
          your1970 21 November 2020 19: 58
          -1
          Quote: d4rkmesa
          "with an average salary in China of $ 250" - your data is out of date.

          ВОЗРАСТ these pseudo-retirees - 80 years old. When they are in late 90s retired - salaries in China were $ 100 is sooooo big ...
          You are confusing the PRESENT salaries in China and THEN ... What salaries are today, how much they had then
          The boy breathes as he breathes ...
          1. your1970
            your1970 23 November 2020 09: 18
            -1
            Repeat
            Quote: your1970
            When they are in [i] the late 90s were retiring[/ i] - the salary in China was $ 100 - well, sooooo big ...
    3. Uncle lee
      Uncle lee 20 November 2020 11: 44
      +3
      My sailing teacher, lives in Liepaja, 94 years old, pension 425 euros.
    4. Varyag71
      Varyag71 20 November 2020 11: 45
      +1
      I also like to watch this program.
  • Stalnov I.P.
    Stalnov I.P. 20 November 2020 10: 39
    +6
    Why not take the Singapore experience, a pension amount is put on the accounts of a state bank established by law, without the right to withdraw, in a certain respect from the salary, also established by law, as an example, 15% of the total salary,% may be different. This amount is automatically deducted from the salary. These funds are charged with% set by the Central Bank in agreement with the PEOPLE and the government. If a person dies, these funds are transferred to his relatives. The government can partially use these funds, but no more than 30-40% of the total mass of funds for the development of the economy, in agreement with the PEOPLE, i.e. each citizen gives permission to use his funds, for which he receives additional interest from the turnover of these Money. Everything, a person knows how much money he has in his account and based on this, he accordingly leads a lifestyle.
    1. Volodin
      Volodin 20 November 2020 10: 45
      +6
      Quote: I.P. Stalnov.
      Why not take the Singapore experience, a pension amount is put on the accounts of a state bank established by law, without the right to withdraw, in a certain respect from the salary, also established by law, as an example, 15% of the total salary,% may be different.

      Well, you are like a little one))) And how, then, from these means "what is it" ...

      Quote: I.P. Stalnov.
      Central Bank in agreement with the PEOPLE

      Good morning anecdote))
    2. your1970
      your1970 20 November 2020 12: 05
      -4
      Quote: I.P. Stalnov.
      the pension amount is deposited into the accounts of the statutory bank,

      And tomorrow the bank goes bankrupt - like 3 Canadian pension funds after Busanga, yeah ...
      And if it is a State Bank, then this is not very different from payments from the budget ..
      But most importantly, the population of Singapore is less than the population of one of the districts of Moscow
  • Alex66
    Alex66 20 November 2020 10: 40
    +7
    Putin is supported only by those who do not need free medicine, education and pensions, do not need a high minimum wage, they do not depend on all this, but there will not be even 10% of such people. After all, despite the fact that there is not enough funds for the necessary, the government continues to spend money on useless, does not touch its expenses, but calls on to treat our robbery with understanding and under this is trying to protect against prosecution in the future by the law on Putin's irresponsibility.
    1. Rubi0
      Rubi0 20 November 2020 11: 26
      -9
      The government does what it should do, implements federal programs on infrastructure and gives you opportunities and tools, if you do not know how to use them, then alas. It's time to get used to the fact that no one will give you a job as before in the distribution, you still need to find it and then compete among other candidates. You are worried about the minimum wage, so why are you complaining if this is your ceiling?
  • Qwertyarion
    Qwertyarion 20 November 2020 10: 41
    +1
    ... what are we dealing with - ordinary populism designed to attract attention

    That's right ....
    While attracting attention, and later substantiating the situation as very bad, to offer the only correct way out of a bad situation.
    Raising the retirement age by another five years and raising pension fees.
  • Roman070280
    Roman070280 20 November 2020 10: 44
    10
    Now it only remains to figure out what we are dealing with


    From the Kremlin organized criminal group .. It's just the last idiot who didn't understand ..
    The constitution was changed, resetting was done - now you can tighten the nuts further.
    For a long time, everyone has mentally resigned themselves to the fact that they will not have any pension in old age .. either we will not live, or the very minimum wage ..
    In 2000 I went to work ... together with the arrival of Putin, and the beginning of all his reforms .. At the moment I have not worked out anything (although I almost work all the time officially) .. well, let the tsar sit for another 20 years .. let's see what happens to my The PFR website will write me the 60th anniversary in the reports .. But, I repeat, there is no doubt now that it will not be better .. and you can not dream of any trains on the sea on retirement .. But it may well be that time I will also owe the state ..
  • Daniil Konovalenko
    Daniil Konovalenko 20 November 2020 10: 58
    +4
    Collapse, of course, if some amendments are constantly being made not for the better, for the worse, if the retirement age is increased, if they are constantly freezing.
  • Alexander Kopychev
    Alexander Kopychev 20 November 2020 11: 00
    +5
    And where is the "significant increase in the standard of living of pensioners"

    Where where...
  • GRIGORIY76
    GRIGORIY76 20 November 2020 11: 05
    +5
    The Kremlin mongrel was allowed to open its mouth, somehow strange. Where were you when you raised your age? Who will be responsible for the failure?
    1. Daniil Konovalenko
      Daniil Konovalenko 20 November 2020 11: 14
      +6
      [b
      ] The Kremlin mongrel was allowed to open its mouth, somehow strange.
      [/b] ... The Duma elections are on the way, the party's rating is probably zero, you need to raise the 5% barrier to pass.
      1. GRIGORIY76
        GRIGORIY76 20 November 2020 11: 46
        +3
        Quote: Daniil Konovalenko
        [b
        ] The Kremlin mongrel was allowed to open its mouth, somehow strange.
        [/b] ... The Duma elections are on the way, the party's rating is probably zero, you need to raise the 5% barrier to pass.

        Meaning? We also have GAS "elections", Elochka will draw the numbers that will come from the AP.
        1. Daniil Konovalenko
          Daniil Konovalenko 20 November 2020 11: 55
          +3
          Well, hope for Ellochka, and raise your rating .. laughing
  • Trapp1st
    Trapp1st 20 November 2020 11: 20
    11
    It is not bad to return to an understanding of everything that is happening, to fill society and, most importantly, the stealing elite with something other than the golden calf.

    A pension is a salary!
    1. Roman070280
      Roman070280 20 November 2020 11: 40
      +5
      Pension is compensation for lost earnings
      Siluanov ..

      That's it ..
      1. mat-vey
        mat-vey 20 November 2020 12: 12
        +3
        Quote: Roman070280
        Pension is compensation for lost earnings
        Siluanov ..

        That's it ..

        And the fact that all his life for this regularly kept a tidy sum this genius of economics modestly forgot.)))
  • Shadow041
    Shadow041 20 November 2020 11: 26
    +4
    Mironov is right about one thing - an ineffective official cannot earn much. When women from the Pension Fund of Russia in mink coats come to a recipient of a pension of 11000 rubles a month and begin to mumble something about the fact that the Pension Fund has no money for normal pensions, it sounds like a mockery. The staff of officials must be reduced, it is excessively and thoughtlessly inflated, and their prohibitively high salaries must also be cut
  • alekc75
    alekc75 20 November 2020 12: 16
    0
    Quote: DrEng527
    Quote: paul3390
    And most of all - simply return the people's power. Soviet.

    thanks! 73 years of terror and scarcity were enough for us ... request

    and you lived with her ???
  • faterdom
    faterdom 20 November 2020 12: 38
    +2
    He is convinced that everything will be normalized if Russia returns to the practice of paying its citizens pensions from the state budget - in fact, to the Soviet pension model.

    With the stubbornness of a woodpecker, they destroyed the Soviet model (pension / health care / education / economy - everywhere else!), In order to fill all the bumps that are possible to return to the Soviet model?
    Who will do it?
    Really, Putin-Medvedev-Volodin-Matvienko-Mironov with Gref-Kudrin-Siluanov-Golikova? Oh yes, Chubais has been forgotten ...
    These - will not be exactly, in any way they will not!
    And if they do, then God forbid, there will be another "reform" under "no time to swing."
    But the just statement has already become dirty - there really is no time, and those who chatter this mantra do not even suspect how right they are.
    Well, let them at least ask Pashinyan - he is no longer a simple liberal woodpecker, but beaten and without feathers! Even so - and all "experience is the son of difficult mistakes."
    And you don't have to ask us to "get into a position," since it is not mutual - we will not get into any position! Enough to be "in position" - 9 months and clarity: either gave birth or miscarriage.
    Where is the clarity, where is the culprit, where is the landing?
  • bandabas
    bandabas 20 November 2020 12: 39
    0
    Just outright populism. When everything was accepted, he was silent in a rag. All these gentlemen - Mironov, Zyuganov, Zhirinovsky and others like them begin to pretend to be criticism when everything is already accepted. Perfectly aware that nothing will change. Feeding hand "opposition". Really, the output is solid "approvals". "Tahiti, Tahiti ... We have not been to any Tahiti! We are well fed here too."
  • pyagomail.ru
    pyagomail.ru 20 November 2020 12: 56
    -1
    Mironov is a populist, the leader of an indistinct party with a loud name, who needs at least 5% in the upcoming elections to the State Duma. His support is those who cry for life under the Soviet regime, which they most likely know only from books.
  • Freeman
    Freeman 20 November 2020 13: 22
    +5
    And where “a significant increase in the standard of living of pensioners,” none of the statesmen can say, for there is no reason or desire to explain anything at all.


    request Well, of course, here it is. wassat

    "The average pension in Russia, compared to 2013, has grown from 9153 rubles to 14904 rubles."

  • Ronald Reagan
    Ronald Reagan 20 November 2020 14: 13
    -4
    When pensions are canceled, there will be no one to shed tears on the forums - everyone will work! soldier
  • From Tomsk
    From Tomsk 20 November 2020 14: 30
    +2
    I ask you to treat this with understanding, ahahah))
  • Maks1995
    Maks1995 20 November 2020 14: 34
    0
    Nifiga don't understand:
    In case of a one-time collapse, there can be some kind of shock. Although where are these old people going? Unarmed and sick, will they hold meetings at the city halls?
    Throw them a couple of promises and bonuses, and everything will pass. And then they will disappear ...

    But if you cut the big crash into small ones, then nothing will happen.

    I remind you:
    First, Pensions were deposited in the VTB State Bank. He gave an awesome small% and proudly (in the press) financed "long projects".
    They set up the PF of the palaces, Putin appointed the Director - a friend of the millionaire.
    Projects bye-bye, money - bye-bye - interest at VTB was frozen - money is still bye-bye.
    They rushed to recalculate pensions - money is still bye-bye.
    interest was simply canceled - money is still bye-bye.
    A couple of deputies of the director-millionaire were arrested for theft - the money is still bye-bye.
    Raised the retirement age, lying about an increase of 1 thousand rubles - money is still bye-bye.
    Again they rushed to recalculate pensions - the money is still bye-bye.
    We started talking about a new PR ...


    In general, the elephant should be eaten bit by bit, and there will be no shocks and pensioners ...
    And the crown arrived in time somehow ...
  • Undecim
    Undecim 20 November 2020 15: 25
    +6
    Another tub of propaganda verbiage. Why are these propaganda antics.
    Since 1993, Russia has been officially proclaimed a social state (Constitution of the Russian Federation, Chapter 1, Article 7).
    What is a "welfare state"?
    We open the "Concise Political Dictionary" which was compiled by Frank Nullmeier and which was published in Germany.
    Sozialstaat (welfare state) is a model of the state, the policy of which is aimed at the redistribution of material wealth in accordance with the principle of social justice for the sake of achieving a decent standard of living for every citizen, smoothing social differences and helping those in need.
    Everything. That is, the task is clearly defined and legalized in the Constitution. And for an ordinary citizen of Russia it is absolutely not important in what ways the state of Russia will fulfill its constitutional obligations to ensure his (citizen) a decent standard of living and what funds and budgets the state will use at the same time.
    It follows from this that the presence in the state of citizens who do not have a decent standard of living testifies to the failure of this state to fulfill its functions.
  • nikvic46
    nikvic46 20 November 2020 16: 21
    +1
    Until the laws spell out the right to peaceful protest, it’s hard to imagine what the future holds. All segments of the population can only dream of taking part in it. In any case, it should be done with the proper culture. And for this we need representatives of culture in the bosom of Russian life. Cashbacks, brands, HYIPs, media, donations should replace Russian meanings, otherwise we live in Russia, but we use everything foreign. Aggression in the information field is the worst thing for us. Hating our enemies, we are ready to grab each other's teeth.
  • GRIGORIY76
    GRIGORIY76 20 November 2020 17: 24
    +1
    Quotation: I.P.
    Why not take the Singapore experience, a pension amount is put on the accounts of a state bank established by law, without the right to withdraw, in a certain respect from the salary, also established by law, as an example, 15% of the total salary,% may be different.

    Are you seriously? How much has our ruble depreciated over the past 20 years? All these savings will not be worth anything over time.
  • evgen1221
    evgen1221 21 November 2020 10: 16
    0
    All (pranks) with our retirement money happen in my humble opinion from -1. The greed of the top-ranking officials who compose these schemes of calculations (honest and decent) have long been knocked out there, hence the dregs in the calculations and necessarily a cunning fad for stealing unpunished to themselves and to the common fund. 2 Incompetence in principle in the assigned case and unwillingness to serve the people - only to himself and the clan. 3. When presenting the compiled tables and bills to the president for signing, these data seem so confusing that in order for one person to figure it out, this life will go away, of course he (gdp) like I trust you, you counted in a crowd and signed without any attention. that they have us. This is my generalized idea of ​​how they work up there in general. And here we are already warming our heads, why are these numbers not beating with reality? So they will not be beating, They have their own legally protected pensions and benefits, which are cleaner than those of a peasant in the union, plus theft, plus business and shares. so covered in chocolate that you can compose anything, it won't affect their income. And Alferov is right-And what for then in general the country is with such a system?
  • bar
    bar 21 November 2020 12: 36
    +1
    With all the negativity of the "pension reform", it is necessary to separate flies from cutlets. The collapse of the FIU is not equal to the collapse of the pension system. First, the Pension Fund of Russia sits on subsidies from the state budget, and is not threatened with collapse. Secondly, if at all to disperse this gasket between the budget and pensioners, it will definitely not be worse, and the costs for the crowd of parasites shifting papers in expensive mansions throughout the country will be reduced. After all, there were no "pension funds" in the USSR, and pensions were paid directly from the budget, without padding.
  • Comrade Kim
    Comrade Kim 22 November 2020 19: 11
    0
    Quote: Gene84
    the authorities proved their inability to carry out social policy in the country.

    The FIU employs more than 124 people, whose work efficiency can be equated to the invasion of the barbarians in the Roman Empire.
    "The total amount of income that the PFR received from the temporary placement of pension savings on deposits with credit institutions, based on the results 2017 years made 5,14 billion, which is converted to 8,8% per annum. "
    http://www.pfrf.ru/press_center~2018/02/14/153218
    The State Pension Fund of Norway employs 2 (two) orders of magnitude fewer employees.
    According 2017 year, the fund's annual profit exceeded NOK 1 trillion ($ 131,5 billion).
    The profitability at the end of 2017 was 13,7%.

    So the FIU has earned us 5,14 billion rubles.
    The Norwegian pension fund earned for them over the same period: 131,5 billion dollars.
    As the saying goes, feel the difference.