Military Review

War propaganda - good and bad

289

History teaches us that the intensity of propaganda does not increase real military power.


Military propaganda is one of the important types of support for combat operations, it is aimed at maintaining the population and personnel of faith in the strength of their country and the capabilities of the Armed Forces, in the ability of the military-political leadership and commanders of units and formations to achieve victory over the enemy.

This is definitely a necessary activity. And it must be. If there is no propaganda of its own, then there will be propaganda on the part of the enemy, which may turn out to be corrupting even for a victorious army and demoralizing for the population in conditions when there are no objective reasons for demoralization.

However, this is all true with a few caveats.

First, propaganda should not instill in people exaggerated ideas about our capabilities.

Second, propaganda should not portray the enemy as weaker than he is - under no circumstances.

Thirdly, the customers of propaganda (in the Russian Federation it is the Ministry of Defense) should never, under any circumstances, believe in it themselves and substitute propaganda efforts for real military development.

All these reservations arose for a reason - they are the result of the negative experience of the past, mistakes that were previously made and cost very, very expensive.

Unfortunately, Russian military propaganda is carried out without taking into account both of these clauses, and this has already become chronic. This approach is potentially fraught with big problems for our country. Let us examine the issue related to military propaganda in the Russian Federation in more detail.

The structure of military propaganda bodies in the Russian Federation


In our country, the propaganda system is multilevel.

The highest, highest level of it is the statements of authoritative politicians who do not leave any individual in the street any doubts about our omnipotence. For example, the multiple statements of V.V. Putin that now that we have hypersonic weapon, everyone else can only catch up. At the same time, the fact that no, even the most effective weapon can reduce the military threat to zero, remains behind the scenes, for which there are many examples in history.

Continuous work starts at a lower level, and leads it Department of Information and Mass Communications of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation - DIMK MO.

War propaganda - good and bad
The head of DIMK MO is Major General I.E. Konashenkov.

With the outbreak of the war in Syria, everyone saw how this structure provides information on behalf of the Ministry of Defense - the coverage of the Syrian events was, although not ideal, but quite high quality. I must say that mistakes in the activities of DIMK MO, when its employees themselves publish information, do happen, but they are not regular.

A recent example is lighting of the sea part of the command and control squadron "Caucasus-2020", where DIMK MO completely disgraced himself (reference to shame). But, and there are a lot of positive moments in their work when they publish something on behalf of the RF Ministry of Defense. There are still more of them than failures. Nevertheless, there is already something to criticize for.

However, the publication of various materials by DIMK MO itself is one story, but the work of the press is another. A huge number of private publications work "on the field" of military propaganda, collecting attendance, user traffic and gaining popularity among ordinary people.

These non-state, private "players" form the third, penultimate level of propaganda in our country. And this is where the "quiet horror" occurs - the work is completely contrary to those fundamental reservations that were listed above. Here is just one of many examples.

Izvestia: Hour "Bykov": the robot ship has successfully completed the Arctic voyage.

The patrol ship (PC) "Vasily Bykov" has completed a test cycle in the Arctic. During the campaign, various weapons and life support systems of the newest corvette were tested. Although it was previously believed that the patrol ships of Project 22160 are not very suitable for the Arctic, "Bykov" coped with all the tasks. This means that, if necessary, these corvettes can be sent to the northern seas to counter submarines. On navy they are called "robot ships".

The ship spent almost two months in the polar latitudes. After that, it became clear that, if necessary, the patrol ships of Project 22160 could be sent to the northern seas to counter submarines, the former chief of the main headquarters of the Navy, Admiral Valentin Selivanov, told Izvestia.

“It was the container systems that were tested during the campaign to the North,” says military historian Dmitry Boltenkov.
“First of all, we tested containers with missile systems,” he explained to Izvestia. - But after the launches, it is possible that they were replaced by modules with other equipment. In general, the White Sea is best suited for conducting rocket launches, there is a well-equipped range for this. In addition to weapons, we tested all the systems of the ship - we watched how life support systems, air conditioning and others behave in difficult climatic conditions.
Now they are actively testing new modules - both with weapons and with various auxiliary equipment. Among them are anti-aircraft complexes "Redut" and "Pantsir-M" in sea performance. "

In the real world, no container weapons exist, the design of the container deck of launch loads may not withstand, in order to launch a rocket from a TPK standing by a "candle", absolute calm and zero pitching are needed, this ship does not have systems for obtaining a control center, with any submarines cannot fight due to the absence of both hydroacoustic weapons and anti-submarine weapons, as well as low speed (it will always be late with a change in the search area), and it does not have a cellar for a helicopter aviation means of destruction, that is, there is nowhere to store depth charges and torpedoes, the helicopter can only be on board without weapons. This miracle of technology does not correspond to military requirements for survivability, which in all seriousness allows the Navy to define it as "non-combat", despite the presence of a three-inch cannon. Appreciate, as they say, the difference between propaganda and reality.

Hundreds of such enthusiastic articles that do not have a single point of contact with reality create the very, extremely exaggerated idea of ​​the capabilities of the RF Armed Forces, which are actually absent. Just for the sake of formality - Rossiyskaya Gazeta (a state-owned media outlet!) Writes that MRK "Karakurt" can "disable the aircraft carrier", keeping silent about how much should coincide for the MRK to be at the range of a salvo from the aircraft carrier, and would not be destroyed at the same time, and on the way of its missiles there would not be a single missile ship capable of protecting the aircraft carrier. Comments are simply unnecessary here. At the same time, in the Navy, no one in their right mind would ever say that, here the press distinguished itself.

This is superimposed on the effect of "fakes" such as the mass dismissal of sailors from the US Navy destroyer "Donald Cook", allegedly frightened by Russian electronic warfare systems, or the inability of the American infantry to fight without diapers. And now in the mass consciousness there appears an idea of ​​the enemy as a bunch of dullards, for the fight against which one does not even need to strain, he, in general, will run away from the battlefield himself, one does not need to train or worry about anything.

Even the military-bureaucratic factor is included in the action - if the people applaud our military power, if the enemy at all levels is assessed as inept and not dangerous, then the military leaders, for various reasons, have lost awareness of the importance of their work and refer to the service as a sinecure. the opportunity to report to the political leadership that it seems like everyone knows, to get some kind of encouragement, and as a result - instead of full-fledged military organizational development, limit ourselves to pumping propaganda.

At the very bottom of the propaganda pyramid are the jingoistic patriots themselves. Not being capable of critical thinking and understanding that their ideas about reality may differ from it, these people, communicating in various forums and online platforms, create for themselves a psychologically comfortable information environment, in which we have only a couple of days left before the storming of Washington. This is how public opinion is formed, which, alas, is sometimes the starting point for high-ranking leaders when making decisions.

Then it turns out that the enemy is not at all what they thought about him, and his capabilities are not at all what they thought about them, but it will be too late.

What is DIMK MO's fault here? The fact that in its work it does not give the society a real picture. Advocacy may well be successful, even if it does not hide flaws, you just need to be able to do it. Moreover, such propaganda, while increasing people's confidence in the military institutions of society, at the same time forms in their midst a demand for changes for the better, which then influences both political decisions and the military development itself. The tasks of DIMK MO is not only propaganda, it is the entire spectrum of information support for the Ministry of Defense and the formation of a healthy and useful information policy for the Defense Ministry, of which propaganda efforts are a part.

Competent propaganda enhances military power in reality, not virtually.
And the illiterate - see our harsh realities.

And we have not yet touched on such an issue as rumors about the links between DIMK MO and the non-state press, which is mainly responsible for the production of "hurray-patriots". We will not point the finger at the structure of the Ministry of Defense, we will only say that if the rumors about the "nurturing" of both the aforementioned and other, unnamed private publications from the DIMK MO are confirmed, this will mean that the Department's employees are de facto working to deteriorate the defense Russia, albeit unintentionally. Although this, of course, requires verification, we will not say anything like that.

There is one more structure that bears some responsibility - the revived political administration. But their influence is still very specific, and we will not touch this topic. While.

Now consider how misguided propaganda strikes at a country's military capabilities.

Examples of disasters


One of the most striking examples of how military propaganda harmed Russia as a result of its divergence with reality is the Russian-Japanese war. Today it's no secret to anyone that the largely unfavorable course of hostilities and the first defeats in this war spurred revolutionary sentiments in Russia, although they were not their primary cause. To a large extent, the fatal course of events in our history that followed later was due precisely to this defeat.


The 1902 show is "PR" in our current understanding, an analogue of the Main Naval Parade. A propaganda event of the Russian Imperial Navy.


The reality is somewhat later in Port Arthur.

Alas, in those years it was only possible to adequately assess all the risks in a professional environment, but even there it was very difficult. The results are known. But if then both the enemy and the conditions in which one would have to fight had been adequately assessed in advance, then everything could have been different.

But the combination of the numerical superiority of the Russian army and navy over the Japanese, together with the mood prevailing in society, made an adequate assessment of the state of affairs impossible at any level.

Now let's take a fresh example - the Karabakh war. Few people know about this, but Armenia is incredibly similar to Russia in its military propaganda and its consequences (although there are differences.

From recent interview of Armenian politician Andrias Ghukasyan to Novaya Gazeta:

In 2008, I happened to visit one of the military units in Artsakh, in the Martakert fortified area.
I was shocked: there was not the line of defense that we were told about: it was supposedly very powerful and almost insurmountable.
- What did you see instead of her?
- There were no serious fortifications along the entire almost XNUMX-kilometer length of the line from the Araks River to the Mrava mountain range. Trenches were simply dug, there were dugouts and firing points, which were very clearly visible, not only from the air, but even from the ground - from both sides. Even then, this could not but cause concern. I periodically returned to this topic, but it was then impossible to promote it in Armenia.
- Почему?
There was a tenacious myth about an invincible army, to criticize the army is to pour water on the enemy's mill, such thoughts only defeatists can speak. So it was believed.


Self-deception of the Armenian society had irreversible consequences for it. But this, by and large, is their fault and their problems.

Examples of good propaganda


It is worth paying attention to positive examples of our propaganda, they exist. For example, this flyer:


Is it what she tunes (how it happened) a soldier of the Soviet Army? The fact that he will have to deal with a high-class, morale and ready to fight for his cause, a trained assassin.

Let us ask ourselves a question - if we assume that these leaflets influenced the attitude of fighters to combat training, then wouldn't it be better to write in them that NATO members do not fight without Coca-Cola? Wouldn't it be better to be like the modern "hurray-patriots" who are sure that Americans do not fight without diapers? And if so, how would such propaganda then affect the desire of soldiers to master their military specialties: for the better, or for the worse? Wouldn't it have happened: the soldiers would have said to themselves, "Oh well, what's the point of learning to fight, we knock these spitting off their feet, we won't even have to send cartridges into the chamber"? Would that be good for the country?
What would happen if the promoted fighters in this way met with real (and not imaginary) NATO soldiers?


Alas, letting the activities of the near-war press take its course, DIMK MO directed our propaganda in a very bad way.

You should not blame the Department for this indiscriminately - they, like all military men, are servants. But it would be worthwhile to pose a question to the leadership about the correspondence of the direction of propaganda to the real state of affairs and how the divergence between them could end.

And, of course, it would be worth not to make mistakes ourselves - in the end, you can simply not talk about problematic moments, in extreme cases. Well, there are no sea mines or minesweepers in nature. No, that's all, it doesn't exist. And then those interested would have turned to the materials of specialists and would have understood something from them. And so they jump and clap their hands, sincerely believing that everything is fine with us. And here in mine action - like the Armenians in the air defense, if not worse ...

As a final illustration, we will give an example of a high-quality advertising and propaganda product, though not ours, but Chinese. The video below was ordered by AVIC, a China Aircraft Corporation. And he was filming "about" the first Chinese flights from the deck of an aircraft carrier. What's so interesting? And the fact that, promoting their achievements (from sewing sneakers to aircraft carriers), the Chinese are not lying about anything.

They do not call their "Varyag-Liaoning" "the killer of the Nimitz", they do not lie about the fact that America is looking in fear at the new Chinese aircraft carrier (and she looked then, though the fear was not of that aircraft carrier, but of future new ones - he is now is), they do not lie at all and show strictly the truth - the first step has been taken, all achievements are still ahead, but we are moving forward. In the meantime, five pilots and several planes, and a ship built in the USSR, not ours, and there is nothing else yet, but we are working on a sequel.

At the same time, proof of work - in the form of brand new "flying sharks" and deck crews organized according to the American model were presented. Here's what happened in the end.


Looking at this, one must understand that at that moment China simply did not have carrier-based aircraft, and was nothing in this regard, even against the background of Russia. Now they already have two fully equipped and trained carrier-based air groups and two aircraft carriers, then they had only ambitions - well, they beat them.

Then the Chinese propaganda was able to "kindle hearts" and not lie about anything. Had a war happened then, in which the Liaoning, unprepared for combat use, would have been lost, not a single person in China with a minimum of common sense would have any complaints about the leadership that they told him that there was an aircraft carrier, and his no fact.

Because even in this video it is clear that there is actually no aircraft carrier, it was not hidden. But it seemed that work was going on. A video about the fact that the aircraft carrier is not yet, but it is almost there. And it was so.

Inspirational propaganda without lies and omissions in its purest form. Will we ever learn to do the same?
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  1. The comment was deleted.
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    2. Finches
      Finches 21 November 2020 08: 32
      +5
      Propaganda - in the state machine, there is a lever for controlling the masses! We can say - the steering wheel! Where will he turn there and go! The only uncertainty is always associated with one factor - who is driving!
      1. nnm
        nnm 21 November 2020 09: 44
        +5
        Exactly. But in Russia, this criterion, I think, has long been applicable not only to the issue of propaganda.
        But as a matter of fact, I disagree in its main message - propaganda is not always a reception of lies and exaggeration / understatement. It can and should play a completely different role - the setting of landmarks. I will give you the simplest examples:
        - propaganda of the elimination of illiteracy;
        - propaganda of family values;
        - promotion of healthy lifestyles;
        - propaganda of the Stakhanov movement;
        - promoting the importance of education
        etc.
        And let's remember the voice of Levitan! And the lines ".... if you see a German - kill him!" And what about propaganda (in essence) of historical memory for new generations in the form of the Immortal Regiment?
        It seems that propaganda is necessary, but the question is different - that the goals would be correct and adequate to the development strategy of society and the state. So that there were no far-fetched images, but real images were given - Sailors, Gastello, Nurbagandov, etc.
        1. Finches
          Finches 21 November 2020 09: 48
          -1
          hi You gave correct and illustrative examples! On the other hand, you can play in contrast - the German propaganda of Goebbels, which convinced the entire German people that absolute evil is its good! By the way, the Anglo-Saxons built their entire post-war propaganda machine against the USSR exactly according to Goebbels' patterns, perfection over the years! And today the Anglo-Saxons continue to serve the absolute evil by brainwashing millions of people.
          1. nnm
            nnm 21 November 2020 09: 55
            +6
            I think that the basis of anti-Russian propaganda was created earlier - in Poland, during the time of Ivan the Terrible - when they ordered the "memoirs" of guardsmen, from where the nonsense about tails, corpses under the ceiling, etc., came from. Where did the name come from - Muscovy and other horror films.
            But you are absolutely right, colleague - there is not only the propaganda I have cited, but also when they are not capable of it, its second version comes out - zombie in 24/7 mode. But there is one problem with this - lying ultimately causes rejection. Therefore, during the surrender, in one night, all the houses of Berlin were hung with white sheets as a sign of surrender. And the idiotic propaganda of the times of the end of the USSR did its job.
            1. Finches
              Finches 21 November 2020 10: 00
              +2
              I haven't looked that far! But here you are right about the Poles - and why, because the imposition of the unnatural Slavic mentality of Catholicism gave rise to a perverted Anglo-Saxon essence in the Polish people! That we can successfully observe from their actions throughout the entire time - including in matters of Russophobic propaganda!
              1. nnm
                nnm 21 November 2020 10: 04
                +3
                You said quite rightly - this is exactly what I was leading to. And now, in modern Poland, an example of the dissonance of the made Catholic trend is perfectly visible, when they portrayed themselves as holier than the Pope and reality - one law on abortion simply tore society apart. But in fact, this is the result of far-fetched propaganda and modern values ​​of society.
                1. Finches
                  Finches 21 November 2020 10: 09
                  0
                  Double standards are the fundamental essence of Catholicism! Purgatory alone is worth it, earlier it was possible to buy absolution for sins - he ruined 1000 souls, went and, like in a bazaar, bought himself an indulgence - oops and now you are a saint! laughing
                  1. nnm
                    nnm 21 November 2020 10: 27
                    +6
                    And now indulgence has just a different name - the interests of the United States. Forgives any sins for loyalty. Under the cries of "bombing in the Middle Ages" Yugoslavia is being destroyed - everything is ok. A super country is captured under a test tube of powder. I do not like a country that allows itself to go against the United States - any sins of those who yelp at it will be forgiven.
                    1. Finches
                      Finches 21 November 2020 10: 29
                      -1
                      And as the conclusion of our constructive dialogue - the Anglo-Saxons are the devil's chosen people! And those who serve them are followers of Satan!
                      1. The comment was deleted.
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                      1. nnm
                        nnm 21 November 2020 21: 02
                        +2
                        So the story about the combat path of the unit is propaganda. The exchange of best practices is also its propaganda. Competitions like tank biathlon are propaganda. Coverage of information about new developments - propaganda. But she is also a factor deterring the enemy. So, I would not say that in peacetime propaganda is harmful, in principle.
                      2. Imobile
                        Imobile 21 November 2020 23: 34
                        0
                        Let's then separate informing (just the truth and nothing but the truth), raising interest (biathlon) and propaganda (lighting from a certain angle, which can cause a false understanding. Propaganda is not a deterrent and never was. Informing is probably a deterrent. because we are all closed, and then articles appear that our satellite was driving a submarine (by the way, why did not the author of the article be punished?) I really know people who believed, and all my words that there is no signal in the water spreads and the boat has thick metal, through which, in principle, nothing spreads and calls to physics for the 7th grade did not help
                2. for
                  for 22 November 2020 15: 04
                  -2
                  Quote: Finches
                  bought myself an indulgence - ooplya and now you are a saint!

                  I bought a pood candle the same.
          2. EvilLion
            EvilLion 27 November 2020 11: 01
            -1
            Are you aware that the Russian Empire appeared under Peter I, and in fact another Russian state - the Grand Duchy of Lithuania and Russia was finally liquidated only at the end of the 18th century? Under Ivan the Terrible, there was a very specific Muscovy, that is, quite a Muscovy, separate from both the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, and from Novgorod, and from the southern territories, like the Zaporozhye Sich.
        2. kalibr
          kalibr 21 November 2020 17: 08
          -1
          Quote: Finches
          By the way, the Anglo-Saxons built their entire post-war propaganda machine against the USSR exactly according to Goebbels' patterns, perfection over the years!

          They had excellent specialists of their own, from Creel to Bernays and Black. It was Goebbels who studied with them and studied poorly! There is no need for such discoveries, before you make them you need to read books.
          1. Finches
            Finches 21 November 2020 19: 14
            +1
            What I like about VO is the huge number of Schopenhauers ... and Plevako! laughing
        3. Alex Justice
          Alex Justice 21 November 2020 18: 51
          +1
          And how did the communists clean our brains? And most believed, including me.
          1. Finches
            Finches 21 November 2020 19: 17
            0
            Better brain-cleared by the communists, but with confidence in the future than living one day without understanding what will happen in the "bright" capitalist tomorrow!
          2. ccsr
            ccsr 21 November 2020 19: 26
            +4
            Quote: Alex Justice
            And how did the communists clean our brains?

            So you don't seem to have noticed that the cleaning process continues, only with the opposite sign - before, at least they called for the bright, but now they are calling for the base.
          3. Escobar
            Escobar 29 November 2020 10: 19
            -1
            Under communism, at least, there was no such cut of budgetary funds, factories were built, not collapsed, and the retirement age was not raised in order to save money on the supposedly development of another wunderfafli necessarily "having no analogue in the world", but in fact on the next real estate behind the hill for bureaucrats
      2. WIKI
        WIKI 21 November 2020 11: 08
        +8
        Quote: nnm
        It seems that propaganda is necessary, but the question is different - that the goals would be correct and adequate to the strategy of development of society and the state.

        For the goals to be correct and adequate, propaganda should be expressed not in the form of appeals, but with the help of numbers, supported by real actions, and not by certain methods, to assess the result. You won't argue that a bad example of propaganda is the GDP statement of 25 million high-productivity jobs by 2018. And this propaganda is not based on real indicators. "The calculation methodology does not take into account either advanced technologies at the enterprise, or the qualifications of employees, or labor productivity - Rosstat specialists were guided only by the average salary at the enterprise. enterprises are automatically included in the "high-performance".
        With this technique, budget-funded places, with a simple indexing of salaries, become highly productive. This is an example of unsuccessful propaganda, backed up by rigging the result, using the right technique.
        1. EvilLion
          EvilLion 27 November 2020 11: 03
          -1
          If a worker produces so much product that his very high salary is justified, then this is a highly productive workplace.
          Your cap.
          1. WIKI
            WIKI 27 November 2020 14: 41
            0
            Where did you see the concept of "product" in the Rosstat methodology?
    3. Hypertension
      Hypertension 21 November 2020 12: 25
      +4
      Quote: Finches
      Propaganda - in the state machine, there is a lever for controlling the masses!

      Rather, it is a tool. And there are more than one uncertainty factors. These are: what is the quality of the propaganda, and in whose hands it is, and for what purpose it is being carried out, and what anti-propaganda it opposes, and the quality of the anti-propaganda itself and who has the anti-propaganda in their hands ... A pile of factors ...
    4. Gato
      Gato 21 November 2020 13: 53
      +4
      The only uncertainty

      The main uncertainty: where, in fact, the troika is heading? Calling for the protection of a bright socialist or communist future is one thing, but for the protection of private capitalist property is quite another, for this they can shove into a bread slicer.
  2. Orel
    Orel 21 November 2020 08: 34
    +3
    Quote: Horvat
    The author promotes propaganda on propaganda


    The best "propaganda" is when it may not have happened in reality, but it could well have been under certain circumstances, i.e. this is not a fantasy, but is perceived by a person as a completely real event, that a feat, that news, must correspond to this, otherwise it will not work. Armenia overdid it with "hurray propaganda", the result - almost power was demolished, so everyone was surprised at the defeat when they talk about hundreds of destroyed Azerbaijani soldiers every day
    1. Cosm22
      Cosm22 21 November 2020 10: 54
      +7
      The article is not bad.
      Especially the ending - "Inspirational propaganda without lies and omissions in its pure form. Will we ever learn to do the same?"
      But the question arises - if lies and omissions are removed from our today's propaganda, then what will be left of it?
  3. Svarog
    Svarog 21 November 2020 09: 26
    15
    Very interesting article. I especially liked the Soviet and Chinese examples. And today's propagandists are sick of ... and it is surprising that there are still people who, after all, cannot compare and understand the real reality with what they broadcast from all the irons ... that a lie drives a lie and a lie ..
    1. Squelcher
      Squelcher 22 November 2020 09: 54
      -3
      Eka you applied the USSR and kommuntstov, well done.
  • Mikhail m
    Mikhail m 21 November 2020 05: 12
    12
    Inspirational propaganda without lies and omissions in its purest form. Will we ever learn to do the same?

    Rogozin should be asked about this. Can draw inspirational perspectives. Or those who cut the military budget.
  • Asad
    Asad 21 November 2020 05: 20
    23
    And I liked the article, the feeling of false superiority often plays a bad joke! Literally today's example with Armenia!
  • tatra
    tatra 21 November 2020 05: 27
    21
    Putin seeks justification / justification for his 20-year rule. The incantations of the paid Putin propagandists in the style of "Putin saved Russia", "and you remember what happened in the 90s," no longer work, so he rushes - "Russia is a great energy superpower", then "Russia is a great Orthodox superpower", then "Russia is a great superpower armed to the teeth."
    1. Lech from Android.
      Lech from Android. 21 November 2020 05: 49
      23
      The law passed by the State Duma on the non-jurisdiction of presidents very much led to the minus and Putin and the State Duma. (For me) In fact, the highest power received an indulgence for any act, even illegal ... The president is now not subject to jurisdiction, he can violate the rights of millions of citizens guided by his own ideas of what they need ... badly. We return again to the good old days of the reign of the Romanovs.
      1. Free wind
        Free wind 21 November 2020 07: 02
        23
        The out-of-jurisdictional tsar and his family were quite safely disposed of. Actually, like many rulers who considered themselves celestials.
        1. Phil77
          Phil77 21 November 2020 08: 17
          +6
          Quote: Free Wind
          successfully finished.

          Then there were people who were capable and decided to take full responsibility for the country! Now? They? Are there? winked
        2. Antokha
          Antokha 24 November 2020 15: 22
          0
          Now, if you, darling, get banged, that's okay. But if society will allow itself to express itself like that that your children will be brutally killed, then it is very painful. Try your words on yourself.
      2. Jacket in stock
        Jacket in stock 21 November 2020 08: 00
        +8
        Today one law was adopted, tomorrow the opposite will be adopted in the same way.
        Guarantees can only be given by "their" person in the position of a successor.
        But as practice shows, this is also far from a guarantee.
      3. La Peruse
        La Peruse 21 November 2020 09: 31
        11
        By adopting this law, they simply took and violated Chapter 19 of the Constitution. In general, this power cannot be changed by constitutional means ... I am surprised how their still clumsy and deceitful propaganda is brainwashing some individuals, such are also present at VO. Although, as one of the propoganda geniuses said, the more miraculous is the lie! The easier it is to believe in it! (Joseph Goebbels) (c)
      4. nnm
        nnm 21 November 2020 09: 34
        +5
        To be honest, this is nothing new. For example, the first decree of the new US president traditionally
        is a decree, roughly speaking, on pardoning the previous president for all his actions in office.
        As for us, they just won't attract Putin without the law. And if there is such a government that is ready for this, then the law will be abolished, or a hundred loopholes in it will be found, or supplemented with one line that will destroy the meaning of the law. There would be desire and will
        1. WIKI
          WIKI 21 November 2020 11: 36
          0
          Quote: nnm
          the first decree of the new US president traditionally
          is a decree, roughly speaking, to pardon the previous president

          I don’t know about the pardon, but: "According to the legislation of most European countries, as well as the United States, former heads of state do not have immunity from prosecution."
      5. BAI
        BAI 21 November 2020 17: 41
        +2
        Almost the highest power received an indulgence for any act, even illegal

        This law is a necessity. Any actions of the authorities cause dissatisfaction. Even if they decide to give everyone $ 10, there will always be those who are dissatisfied - why not $ 000? Therefore, the government must be able to make the necessary, but not popular decisions to ensure the existence and functioning of the state. Otherwise, if the authorities look back at what will happen next, they will be ineffective and will not do anything. Which is much worse than criminal acts.
        1. Fan-fan
          Fan-fan 21 November 2020 21: 14
          0
          The authorities should not lie to their people. The government must fight against thieves and corrupt officials.
          Where is all this? Who will be responsible for this?
    2. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 21 November 2020 05: 54
      10
      Quote: tatra
      Putin seeks justification / justification for his 20-year rule.

      Here and without him, they try to find the meaning of his Brownian gesture:

      Regarding the article:
      Inspirational propaganda without lies and omissions in its purest form. Will we ever learn to do the same?

      You don't need to learn this. It's in the blood. People call it fraud. This is how gypsy fortune-tellers, psychics, various crooks and other lovers of folk simplicity provide themselves with their "daily bread".
      1. Uncle lee
        Uncle lee 21 November 2020 07: 44
        11
        "An ordinary chicken tail is hiding under a lush peacock's tail ... Less pathos, gentlemen!"
        F. Ranevskaya.
      2. sniperino
        sniperino 21 November 2020 16: 13
        +1
        Quote: ROSS 42
        Regarding the article:
        Inspirational propaganda without lies and omissions in its purest form. Will we ever learn to do the same?
        You don't need to learn this. It's in the blood. This is popularly called fraud.
        There is no fraud without lies and omissions. And the attribution of "impurity" to blood is Nazism. You yourself, hike, did not understand anything from the article, but you are hiding behind the people: you can see ears from afar.
    3. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 21 November 2020 09: 36
      -6
      Quote: tatra
      "do you remember what happened in the 90s"


      Well, that is, you do not remember, or have already forgotten what happened in the 90s, we will certainly not consider the question "Putin saved everyone."

      "enemies are all around."


      And what was it when it was wrong ?!
      1. Cherry Nine
        Cherry Nine 21 November 2020 15: 56
        +1
        Quote: Cyril G ...
        Well, that is, you do not remember, or have already forgotten what happened in the 90s

        What was so interesting there? For example, I did not notice NATO soldiers. And not only in your yard.
        These, for example, were not there.

        And these were not.

        And even these were not there.

        And what was it when it was wrong ?!


        This has never been the case. Hatred is an energy-consuming feeling, it must be earned and maintained. In the dashing 90s, no one could even imagine the current situation with the same Ukraine. And now it remains only with Kazakhstan to fit into some fornicator, and there will be a flash-piano.
        1. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 21 November 2020 16: 32
          0
          Quote: Cherry Nine
          This has never been the case.

          The naivety is amazing. Do you live in some alternative reality where pink ponies live?

          For example, I did not notice NATO soldiers.

          And these are the direct consequences. And they will have an effect for a very long time. However, you moved off the topic technically - it was not about that at all, and if you do not remember what the 90s are, then you either stole and were engaged in racketeering, or other criminal activities, and your life was just fine. But then there are very few people like you in the country ... I admit you were still young and unreasonable then.

          In the dashing 90s, no one could imagine the current situation with the same Ukraine.


          Why it was quite possible to imagine everyone except the inhabitant of the universe of pink ponies. Many people do not want to remember how the Black Sea Fleet coastal facilities were seized, my classmate in Feodosia was completely crippled by the ukromenty when he left the service in the Crimea, how the ukromenty arranged hack and extortion on the trains leaving Krasnodar through Ukraine
          1. Cherry Nine
            Cherry Nine 21 November 2020 16: 52
            -3
            Quote: Cyril G ...
            Do you live in some alternative reality where pink ponies live?

            I live in real reality. And I see that even Ukrainians and Georgians cannot really hate Russians. Real, calm hatred, in contrast to patriotic tantrums on TV, requires too much moral and volitional efforts and self-discipline. Moreover, residents of countries where Russians are not known as well, or at least not as recently as in the near abroad, are not ready for such efforts.
            Quote: Cyril G ...
            and your life was just wonderful.

            I would not say. There were pros and cons.
            Quote: Cyril G ...
            how on the trains going from Krasnodar through Ukraine the ukromenty staged a hunt and extortion.

            I didn’t think that for the citizens of Russia cops' shmonking and extortion is something traumatic.
            1. Cyril G ...
              Cyril G ... 21 November 2020 17: 01
              +2
              Quote: Cherry Nine
              I didn’t think that for the citizens of Russia cops' shmonking and extortion is something traumatic.


              Probably you had such a life. I have never personally had any bad intersections with the employees of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Russia. But in two days of stay on the territory of Ukraine, I quite got myself under the scam and other troubles twice.
              1. Cherry Nine
                Cherry Nine 21 November 2020 18: 07
                -2
                Quote: Cyril G ...
                I have never personally had any bad intersections with the employees of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Russia.

                I had a number of intersections with these officers, and I have never been a detainee or a suspect. However, even in these cases, the employees easily convinced me that garbage was not only a trap, but also dangerous, including in the role of a witness or victim. Since then, I mean it.

                Oh yes.
                Quote: Kirill G.
                And these are the direct consequences

                Well, if the Estonian photo can still somehow be attached to the "consequences" (although rather the consequences of the 40th year than the 91st), then the NATO soldiers in Kiev and Azerbaijan are the consequences of completely different events to which the 90s cannot be drawn so simple.
                1. Cyril G ...
                  Cyril G ... 21 November 2020 18: 53
                  +2
                  Quote: Cherry Nine
                  then the NATO soldiers in Kiev and Azerbaijan are the consequences of completely different events, to which it is not so easy to drag the 90s.


                  Actually, it's not worth attracting. These are inevitable consequences of the restoration of Russia. No matter how it is called, and whatever policy it pursues.
                  1. Cherry Nine
                    Cherry Nine 21 November 2020 19: 42
                    -2
                    Quote: Cyril G ...
                    These are inevitable consequences of the restoration of Russia. No matter how it is called

                    And if there is no difference, why pay more?
                  2. Vladimir Kiev
                    Vladimir Kiev 22 November 2020 12: 36
                    -2
                    Good afternoon!
                    Same
                    Quote: Cyril G ...
                    Quote: Cherry Nine
                    then the NATO soldiers in Kiev and Azerbaijan are the consequences of completely different events, to which it is not so easy to drag the 90s.


                    Actually, it's not worth attracting. These are inevitable consequences of the restoration of Russia. No matter how it is called, and whatever policy it pursues.

                    This is just a perfect example of Orwell's "doublethink" !!!
                    Tanks, planes, NATO soldiers in neighboring countries, it turns out this is the "restoration of Russia"!
                    Don't you think that this is Russia's defeat ???
                    Now, if it were the other way around (no matter how anyone relates to it), then I could recognize the "restoration".
                    That's what propaganda does to brains!
                    1. Cyril G ...
                      Cyril G ... 22 November 2020 12: 49
                      0
                      Quote: Vladimir Kiev
                      That's what propaganda does to brains!

                      You have yes.

                      This is just a perfect example of Orwell's "doublethink" !!!
                      Tanks, planes, NATO soldiers in neighboring countries, it turns out this is the "restoration of Russia"!

                      You have not even tried to comprehend, it happens. Not everyone is given.

                      The dismemberment of the USSR as a result of the Cold War was accompanied by the establishment of political control by the "West" over the "Independent" and "Democratic" regimes. And this turned out to be quite enough for many years. Now this is no longer enough, the consequence of which is an attempt to establish direct military control.
                      1. Vladimir Kiev
                        Vladimir Kiev 22 November 2020 13: 01
                        -1
                        Consider the fact that until 2014 the majority of Ukrainian citizens had a positive attitude towards Russia and Russians - this was consistently shown by all polls, and the idea of ​​moving to NATO was supported by a minority. In 2020, the official military doctrine regards the Russian Federation as an enemy, joint exercises with NATO are being conducted, and the majority of Ukrainians consider the Russian Federation an aggressor. Do you think this is a geopolitical victory, restoration of Russia's influence?
                        PS
                        Getting personal is a clear sign that there is nothing to object to.
        2. Lirik R
          Lirik R 21 November 2020 20: 53
          0
          Quote: Cherry Nine
          This has never been the case. Hatred is an energy-consuming feeling, it must be earned and maintained. In the dashing 90s, no one could even imagine the current situation with the same Ukraine. And now it remains only with Kazakhstan to fit into some fornicator, and there will be a flash-piano.


          Hatred is a strong feeling, so the true price is that there were enough litmus tests for each neighbor, and on its basis emotions, who deserved what)
    4. timokhin-aa
      21 November 2020 12: 10
      +9
      You just don't remember what happened in the 90s, apparently.
    5. EvilLion
      EvilLion 27 November 2020 11: 06
      -1
      Most importantly, do not forget about the avatars with the symbols of the USSR or a portrait of Stalin. For me they, however, for some reason always cause suspicion in the first place.
  • Lech from Android.
    Lech from Android. 21 November 2020 05: 31
    18
    Least of all, I trust the statements of officials ... Putin, Lavrov, Volodin, Naibulina, etc. Many times I was convinced that behind their statements there are always reservations that are unpleasant for us and reservations about which they prefer not to speak to ordinary citizens. The best thing is to collect any information from the scene and analyze it with your own head, it helps not to be influenced by interested persons in power. The 90s taught me well. Deception of ordinary citizens has become a common occurrence in our society at all levels. Propaganda is just a tool for brainwashing gullible citizens and it is very bad when such a tool is in the wrong hands. Now, on the eve of the elections to the state Duma, this tool will be used to its fullest smile it is clear without words who will use it for their own purposes.
    1. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 21 November 2020 06: 05
      19
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      The best thing is to collect any information from the scene and analyze it with your own head, it helps not to be influenced by interested persons in power. The 90s taught me well. Deception of ordinary citizens has become common in our society at all levels.

      good
      Let anything they say about the inflation rate, which was designated at 4%, but if the oil "Sloboda" (1,8 liters) in the summer cost 174 rubles, and today - 204, then the level of "inflation" in this particular product was designated as 17% ...
      And the most bitter thing is that the deception of ordinary citizens in our society is legalized and has been applied more than once in all branches of our "long-suffering government" ...
      And the funniest thing is that I know everything about this deception, but the "boy" who tried to shout that "the king is naked" is under house arrest on false charges.
      1. Lech from Android.
        Lech from Android. 21 November 2020 06: 12
        11
        Prices have jumped decently and sharply differ from the pink numbers that the financial authorities are drawing to us. whatThis alone says that unpleasant problems have arisen in our kingdom.
        1. Phil77
          Phil77 21 November 2020 08: 01
          +3
          Quote: Lech from Android.
          unpleasant problems arose.

          Unpleasant? Just a question! For you and me? Immediately answer. Yes! For those who are next to * him *? You can't even see it close. winkedThey have problems.
        2. Phil77
          Phil77 21 November 2020 08: 08
          0
          Quote: Lech from Android.
          unpleasant problems arose.

          * They * have all the problems associated with the delayed flight, conditionally from * serematy *, that's all! But * they * will have time! Don't rely on * people's court *. It won't be. * These * will knock down, we will not. Your decisions and conclusions?
      2. Stas157
        Stas157 21 November 2020 08: 35
        13
        Quote: ROSS 42
        oil "Sloboda" (1,8 liters) in the summer cost 174 rubles, and today - 204, then the level of "inflation" in this particular product was designated as 17% ...

        About the oil. Sunflower seed cost 50 rubles, and now it is 70. Growth by 40%. Much has risen in price. In addition to food, household appliances and building materials have become very expensive. There will be a rise in prices for utilities and electricity, taxes on cars, fines ... Life is becoming more beautiful and fabulous.

        In terms of salaries, Africa has already caught up with the devaluation of wood by 25%. And this is not a joke at all! If we compare (at least the minimum, even the average) salary, then we are somewhere slightly above the middle of African countries (the poorest countries on the planet). Therefore, those propagandists (and donors) who will scare the terrible 90s can safely spit in the face.
        1. Phil77
          Phil77 21 November 2020 09: 33
          +8
          And our everything ???? Tea ????

          The price went up sharply.
          1. Stas157
            Stas157 21 November 2020 09: 54
            +6
            hi By the way, this is what I drink.
            1. Phil77
              Phil77 21 November 2020 10: 50
              +8
              Quote: Stas157
              Therefore, those propagandists (and donors) who will scare the terrible 90s can safely spit in the face.

              They have one answer, no, three!
              - But Crimea is ours!
              -Russia is getting up from its knees.
              -Who if not him?
              Ah !!!!! Fourth!
              -Do you want how to / in Ukraine? laughing
              1. The comment was deleted.
          2. Ross xnumx
            Ross xnumx 21 November 2020 14: 57
            0
            Quote: Phil77
            And our everything ???? Tea ????

            Quote: Stas157
            By the way, this is what I drink.

            I drink tea every day. From six months I switched to:

            You will not regret... yes
            1. Fan-fan
              Fan-fan 21 November 2020 21: 29
              +1
              And he picked up a bag of Ivan-tea, dried it and did not care for the store tea.
        2. Phil77
          Phil77 21 November 2020 10: 57
          0
          Quote: Stas157
          scare the terrible 90s, you can safely spit in the face.

          Yes, no matter how not to relate to the same notorious * nineties * !!!!! We were FREE! Now? Well, have an answer?
          1. Phil77
            Phil77 21 November 2020 11: 12
            -1
            Quote: Phil77
            ? Well, have an answer?

            I will say perhaps a seditious thought.
            I HATE Putin !!!!!
            For what?
            And for today !!!!!!!
            Few????
            My thought, minus.
            1. La Peruse
              La Peruse 21 November 2020 11: 55
              +7
              What to minus for? You are not alone in your "love" !!! drinks
            2. timokhin-aa
              21 November 2020 12: 12
              +2
              And right now, you are not free, balabolka? It seems to me that in the 90s you mastered the pot, judging by what was written.
              1. Phil77
                Phil77 21 November 2020 17: 41
                -4
                Quote: timokhin-aa
                And right now, you are not free, balabolka? It seems to me that in the 90s you mastered the pot, judging by what was written.

                I will answer this way! Judging by what you wrote, you really did not live in the * nineties *, but simplicity existed. As for the * pot *, dear, judging by what you wrote, you were ANYONE in the * nineties *, no?
                Sorry, but you have ceased to be an author for me. hi
                1. Fan-fan
                  Fan-fan 21 November 2020 21: 34
                  0
                  He would not compare with the 90s, but would compare with 1913, the effect would have been better.
                  These "comparators" amaze me - at first the country was destroyed into rubbish, then they rebuilt a little with petrodollars and are proud of it above the roof. Although they themselves were unable to build, they hired the Turks or the Chinese. But they built hundreds of times more for their loved ones.
              2. Cyril G ...
                Cyril G ... 21 November 2020 19: 13
                0
                The chaos that was in the 90s with today's prosperity is not even close to compare. By the way, I am without any irony ...
                1. Phil77
                  Phil77 21 November 2020 19: 23
                  -4
                  Quote: Cyril G ...
                  today's prosperity

                  Irony? Sarcasm? Then you * + *.
                  1. Cyril G ...
                    Cyril G ... 21 November 2020 20: 18
                    +2
                    Quote: Phil77
                    Irony?


                    What kind of irony is there if in 98 I have money for meat there was no soy, or you had to choose or rent an apartment or eat. Moreover, I then served in the north, and went to the seas.
                    And therefore, yes, quite a prosperity. Whoever thinks otherwise, he either had a nursery age in the 90s and therefore wears completely rose-colored glasses, or was quite a crime for himself, it does not matter whether an official was a bribe-taker or just a bandit.
                    1. Phil77
                      Phil77 21 November 2020 20: 25
                      -5
                      Quote: Cyril G ...
                      by crime

                      But this is different, you can go through and not get dirty.
                      But you * + *!
              3. Phil77
                Phil77 21 November 2020 22: 30
                -3
                Quote: timokhin-aa
                balabolka?

                Bazaar, why? fool
                Is there an answer?
            3. sniperino
              sniperino 21 November 2020 16: 53
              +2
              Quote: Phil77
              My thought
              Not only everyone can think about a thought, few people can do it. Calling 4 simple sentences with a bunch of punctuation marks as your thought, which the author could not even combine into one intelligible statement, as if he was afraid of his "sedition" - this is too much. If someone hums and bleats not out loud, but to himself, this is not yet a thought, but weak rudiments of inner speech.
              1. Phil77
                Phil77 21 November 2020 17: 50
                -6
                Quote: sniperino
                weak rudiments of internal speech.

                Sure? hi
            4. ccsr
              ccsr 21 November 2020 18: 40
              +2
              Quote: Phil77
              I HATE Putin !!!!!
              For what?
              And for today !!!!!!!

              Of course, the people of Israel are nicer for the drunk Yeltsin to rule us - it looks so kosher and cool from the Promised Land ...
              1. Phil77
                Phil77 21 November 2020 18: 45
                -1
                Oops! Honestly, but from you! This! Did not expect. Where did you get this about Israel? belay
                Me? A Jew? I don’t even know whether to laugh or cry? laughing
                All the same I will laugh! drinks
                1. ccsr
                  ccsr 21 November 2020 18: 56
                  +1
                  Quote: Phil77
                  What makes you think about Israel?

                  So they are most of all agitating against Putin, for them our mess is like a good performance, where they make fun as spectators, and for free. But I, who has seen life, just want to ask all opponents of Putin - did you yourself abandon the CPSU and the Soviet Union, and do you think what the country will end up with if the "nasty" leshiks come to power instead of Putin. Personally, I may not like Putin and his entourage, but there was already a "red wheel" in our history a hundred years ago - maybe it's enough to experiment with social upheavals? What will the change of power give you personally - can you honestly describe it?
                2. Phil77
                  Phil77 21 November 2020 19: 55
                  0
                  Quote: Phil77
                  All the same I will laugh!

                  Citizens * minus *! I’m not a Jew! And I don’t profess Judaism! You can understand just a civic position? Or at least explain? Without stupid * minus *, eh? hi
                  1. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 21 November 2020 20: 19
                    +1
                    Throw gasoline into the fire! laughing
                    "Citizens minus", it's enough that you are a Muscovite!
          2. Ross xnumx
            Ross xnumx 22 November 2020 04: 05
            +1
            Quote: Phil77
            Yes, no matter how not to relate to the same notorious * nineties * !!!!! We were FREE!

            How did you miss your post? request
            In the 90s, everyone was really "free". My comrades in the service were "free" in connection with the disbandment or reduction ... belay In 1996, my brother fell under a layoff due to the reassignment of the KemZhD management ... request
            Take the statistics and count how many enterprises were closed, how many single-industry towns, villages disappeared and where did the “liberated people and their children” go ...
            Quote: Phil77
            I will say perhaps a seditious thought.
            I HATE Putin !!!!!

            How can you call a thought that will itch the majority of Russians as "sedition"? The constitutional guarantor deceived us in our expectations. True, someone, like me, realized this at the beginning of the first term, after his words: "She drowned," and someone fanatically and loyally serves what he is in fact a guarantor of.
            He prepared guarantees for himself about immunity and security. Only now, I didn’t think why they would give him such honors. MSG, far from homeland, sends us letters from far away. He may soon have a follower ...
    2. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 21 November 2020 09: 38
      +3
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      Cheating ordinary citizens has become common in our society at all levels


      It is now so everywhere.
      1. victor50
        victor50 21 November 2020 10: 53
        0
        Quote: Cyril G ...
        Quote: Lech from Android.
        Cheating ordinary citizens has become common in our society at all levels


        It is now so everywhere.

        Another argument of those who say that we are the best ... When the obvious negative can no longer be refuted. From the same category also: "And who will replace him ?!" ... laughing Why should we have "like everywhere else." Interesting - = this argument is only when about the bad.
        1. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 21 November 2020 11: 40
          +1
          What are you speaking about? This is not an argument. This is a statement of the real state of affairs on the planet.
          1. Phil77
            Phil77 21 November 2020 18: 47
            -2
            Quote: Cyril G ...
            This is not an argument. This is a statement of the real state of affairs on the planet.

            Ha, ha! Sorry, but there are no others? wink
    3. sniperino
      sniperino 21 November 2020 16: 33
      -1
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      Many times I was convinced that behind their statements there are always reservations that are unpleasant for us and reservations about which they prefer not to speak to ordinary citizens.
      One of the latter could be cited as an example, otherwise there will be a conviction that you, dear man, are a balabol propagandist.
  • Van 16
    Van 16 21 November 2020 05: 32
    11
    Good article. You can't lie in propaganda. They will be caught lying once, then the second, and some of the people will lose confidence altogether, while the other, on the contrary, will have a sense of superiority (hurray, we will throw slippers).
    1. user1212
      user1212 21 November 2020 05: 48
      -6
      Quote: Van 16
      Good article. You can't lie in propaganda. They will be caught lying once, then the second, and some of the people will lose confidence altogether, while the other, on the contrary, will have a sense of superiority (hurray, we will throw slippers).

      Tell the Jews :)
    2. kalibr
      kalibr 21 November 2020 05: 57
      +5
      Arthur Ponsonby, back in his book "Lies during the War" in 1926, wrote: A confession of a lie made by a government that the people trusted can become fatal for him! "No need to invent a bicycle. But you don't need to be guided by thin C-grade students like Goebbels ...
      1. The leader of the Redskins
        The leader of the Redskins 21 November 2020 07: 24
        -10 qualifying.
        Good morning, Vyacheslav Olegovich.
        But the article, as the young people say, "did not come to me".
        I will try to explain. Please note - from the very beginning, the author did not define what propaganda is. And even on "Vicky" there are several of them. Moreover, quite different from each other.
        Well, then it went - it went. There are not so many examples, illustrations from one time, then from another.
        In general, the material is poorly developed.
        1. kalibr
          kalibr 21 November 2020 07: 57
          -1
          Good morning, "Great Leader". Well, you know, you have specific comments, but I don't really like to make those. Impression is more important to me. But I think that there are classic books and they should be read. In general, any serious material, in my opinion, should be preceded by the historiography of the problem so that one could immediately have an idea of ​​what it is and what it is about.
      2. Free wind
        Free wind 21 November 2020 07: 34
        +8
        So Gebels was almost the first student at school, and then the same at the school. Stupid people could not possibly have conquered Europe. And propaganda, like advertising, is probably for people who are hypnotized. Somehow I bought almost nothing from the advertised goods. I didn’t buy Lexus, Ferrari, Mozarati, even, believe me, lollipops and bounty, I don’t know what it is, well, I’m absolutely even about it. Advertising is not an engine of commerce, but a way of taking money away from not smart people. Remember Buratina.
        1. kalibr
          kalibr 21 November 2020 07: 59
          0
          Quote: Free Wind
          So Gebels was almost the first student at school, and then the same at the school. Stupid people could not possibly have conquered Europe.

          I don't know, Alexander, who he was there, but I know all his punctures well. I have a textbook for high school "Technology of public opinion management" and there all his mistakes are analyzed. That is why I wrote that he is a top three propagandist at best. And the fact that they conquered Europe was the generals and German soldiers. It had nothing to do with propaganda.
          1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
            Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 21 November 2020 12: 30
            -5
            Quote: kalibr
            so it was the generals and the German soldiers. It had nothing to do with propaganda.

            Comrade Shpakovsky, we should not still portray the propaganda as a waitress, dragging along behind the wagon train. It is impossible to overestimate the role of Reich propaganda in the last stage of the war.
            Let's do this: the famous (or little-known, HZ, maybe someone does not know) the fact when Goebbels was put on the table in the fall of 44th a Turkish newspaper with a hypothetical map of the future partition of Germany into three zones of occupation printed in it. Goebbels prudently did not publish it in Das Reich, because he understood what chaos would begin on the roads of the Reich when crowds of refugees crawl from east to west, into the expected zones of American and British occupation.
            1. kalibr
              kalibr 21 November 2020 12: 45
              -5
              Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
              Goebbels prudent

              Though he was smart enough for that. What was not enough - I wrote about it many times. I will not repeat myself here.
              1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 21 November 2020 13: 32
                -3
                ... I will not repeat myself here.

                For this special thanks)
                1. kalibr
                  kalibr 21 November 2020 13: 49
                  -3
                  I gave a list of articles, gave the email address of the electronic textbook. Isn't that enough?
        2. Phil77
          Phil77 21 November 2020 08: 25
          +4
          Quote: Free Wind
          Remember Buratina.

        3. Niel-le-Calais
          Niel-le-Calais 21 November 2020 11: 50
          -1
          Quote: Free Wind
          Advertising is not an engine of commerce, but a way of taking money away from not smart people. Remember Buratina.

          I do not agree.
          Advertising in the modern world increases consumption (the economy - and, accordingly, takes more and more people to work - encouraging them to be consumers, that is, interconnected with the process)
          Modern advertising is not a trade engine, but one of the ways to "buy a consumer".
          And a way more expensive, by the way.
          In the article, propaganda can be called advertising.
          The main features are
          Specific commodity-country and ruling system / course / leader
          A specific consumer is the citizens of this country and others.
          The actions of advertisers are just aimed at the emotional and material side of advertising consumers (you need our product, you need it for survival / status)
          So modern propaganda is advertising.
          They advertised the existing order as yet another proof of stability in front of competitors (KLyaty Zapad).
          And the trouble is just propaganda as advertising in the amount of emotional load! And there is no truth / truth in it, not even a lie. It is not for professionals at all.
          And therefore it is more and more (the body gets used to the dose). Everything is more colorful (old images do not work, we look at the concept of "Decaying West").
          Professional propaganda is an expensive product! These are years and decades of endurance and preparation.
          And modern is a product of advertisers. Short-term cheap fakes.
      3. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 21 November 2020 12: 16
        -1
        Quote: kalibr
        But you don't need to be guided by thin C-grade students like Goebbels ...

        Let me argue about Dr. Goebbels. I would not give such a derogatory assessment of the activities of his apparatus. Firstly, the tone, content and targeting changed depending on the dictated circumstances - there is no need to portray the propaganda of the Reich as a dull propaganda roller, indiscriminate in the means. It is necessary to separate Goebbels, as the ideologue of the information war, from pop-translators like Fritsche and Streicher - analogs of our current talking heads from the first channel.
        Dr. Goebbels' articles in "Das Reich" contained, among other things, a critical analysis, created the illusion of openness to the authorities, etc.
        1. kalibr
          kalibr 21 November 2020 13: 51
          0
          Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          But there is a textbook on the Web (online) https://www.studmed.ru/view/shpakovskiy-vo-shpakovskaya-sv-istoriya-svyazey-s-obschestvennostyu_8ce784d6826.html

          There is also about Goebbels.
      4. sniperino
        sniperino 21 November 2020 17: 34
        0
        Quote: kalibr
        Arthur Ponsonby, back in his book "Lies during the War" in 1926, wrote: A confession of a lie made by a government that the people trusted can become fatal for him! "No need to invent a bicycle. Everything has been known for a long time, technologies have been worked out, take it and do ...
        Ponsonby Principles:
        1) We do not want war. The main thing is to convince people that the “bad guys” hate “us” and have already begun (or are ready to start) first.
        2) The war is fought only through the fault of the enemy. These are “others”, “they” started the war, or dream of starting it from day to day. "We" are forced to defend themselves.
        3) The leader of the opposing country is a living devil. You don't have to make an entire nation hate, Ponsonby wrote. - It is necessary to personify the image of the enemy, to show our population that the head, the leader of the “others” is a mentally ill, crazy, corrupt person.
        4) We are fighting for a just cause, not for our interests. It should be kept in silence that in every war, economic goals are primarily pursued, emphasizing only humanitarian reasons.
        5) The enemy deliberately commits atrocities, we - only by chance. It is necessary to disseminate information about the atrocities committed by the enemy as quickly as possible, explaining that it is he who is inherent in such actions.
        6) The enemy uses forbidden weapons.
        7) Our losses are insignificant, the losses of the enemy are enormous. During the war, losses in manpower and equipment are called not actual, but guided by their own benefits.
        8) Culture, art and intellectuals support our cause.
        9) Our mission is sacred.
        10) Anyone who doubts our propaganda is a traitor.
        Thanks, no!
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  • Jacket in stock
    Jacket in stock 21 November 2020 07: 10
    +3
    Oh damn, the Chinese have soulful songs.
    All the troubles are due to the fact that our people are uneducated. People with a "humanitarian" diploma, bought at the paid department of the journalism department, with an extremely narrow outlook, write about the army, technology, and science. They have no idea about the subject, they are confused in words, they do not know the meaning of the terms, they are just too lazy to read at least something even at the Wikipedia level.
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 21 November 2020 08: 01
      0
      Quote: Jacket in stock
      a "humanitarian" diploma, bought at the paid department of the journalism department, with an extremely narrow outlook. They have no idea about the subject, they are confused in words, they do not know the meaning of the terms, they are just too lazy to read at least something even at the Wikipedia level.

      Well, maybe not bought, but ... they do not know what the "Fog-index" is, nor the "Flash formula", erudition at the level: Hello, Google! So why be surprised?
      1. depressant
        depressant 21 November 2020 10: 26
        +8
        Good morning, Vyacheslav Olegovich! )))
        Glad to see you in good health!
        My erudition in terms of propaganda is also not at all, and I also throw a cry: "Hello, Yandex!" And what is being discovered?
        And very ugly things.
        Fanfare trumpets me: the Vladivostok sea trade port is taken from the swindler Mamedov by the state, or whatever it is - nationalization! State capitalism! And knowledgeable people say that this is the transfer of property from one to another swindler, only under the protection of Himself.
        And again fanfare: Belousov will expand the BAM, make two tracks where there is one! Can you imagine the development of the adjacent territories? And knowledgeable people, again grinning wryly, say: and this is to transport Chinese goods from the "nationalized" Vladivostok port to Europe. And I think: but really, why have not received any development of the territory so far - those with two tracks?
        Or, say, a huge state-owned company is being organized to build river ports and container shipments along rivers, as opposed to the mafia clans involved in those shipments. And again they say: some swindlers will be replaced by others, only protected by the state, and transportation, as it is already clear, will not decrease in price, but will rise in price - you need to recapture the money invested in the construction!
        I fully admit that the skeptics are wrong. But the economic behavior of the state is absolutely non-transparent, not accountable to citizens, does not inspire confidence. After all, the words that are poured into our ears are one thing, and the end result, which we have in our pockets and on the price tags in the store, convinces us of the opposite and all the more embitters. The propaganda shot is blank. I have said more than once that Putin has both bad speechwriters and propagandists.
        1. kalibr
          kalibr 21 November 2020 11: 06
          -1
          This is not propaganda, but information. And, of course, unfortunate. There above I gave a list of my articles on this topic here on VO, you don't have to go far. Read one a day and you will become ... "a tough specialist in PR, advertising and information", well, at least "cool". Thank you for your good wishes ... inevitably you will get better here!
          1. depressant
            depressant 21 November 2020 11: 18
            +1
            Yes, we can't get sick in any way - "winter is coming!"
            1. Phil77
              Phil77 21 November 2020 11: 30
              +1
              Quote: depressant
              it is impossible - "winter is coming!"
              Reply

              Lyudmila Yakovlevna, my dear !!!!
              You do not prepare yourself for illness ...,. And upsssss! It will not be !!!!! Exactly!
              1. kalibr
                kalibr 21 November 2020 11: 33
                0
                Quote: Phil77
                You do not prepare yourself for illness ...,. And upsssss! It will not be !!!!! Exactly!

                Vraki! Cook, don't cook. Nothing depends on us ...
                1. Phil77
                  Phil77 21 November 2020 11: 41
                  -1
                  Quote: kalibr
                  crayfish! Cook, don't cook. Nothing depends on us ...
                  Reply

                  No!!;;; Absolutely not!!! Olegovich, well, it’s bad luck? Eh? Once again, on my combinate, infection 0,8! Everything?
                2. Phil77
                  Phil77 21 November 2020 11: 45
                  -3
                  Quote: kalibr
                  crayfish! Cook, don't cook. Nothing from us

                  Lottery !!!! Who is lucky, who is not ?????
          2. Phil77
            Phil77 21 November 2020 11: 22
            -2
            Quote: kalibr
            This is not propaganda, but information. And, of course, unsuccessful.

            Vyacheslav Olegovich, good morning / day / ?!
            What is propaganda and information, eh? For today?
            1. kalibr
              kalibr 21 November 2020 11: 34
              -1
              Quote: Phil77
              What is propaganda and information, eh? For today?

              Imagine! These are completely different things, although ... it happens somewhere, they touch. Well, it's like always. Jeans with panties also touch, but things are different. Below this comment is the email address of the tutorial. Browse at your leisure ... Although it is from 2004, it is not outdated!
              1. Phil77
                Phil77 21 November 2020 12: 13
                -1
                Quote: kalibr
                touch. Well, it's like always. Jeans with panties

                It happens.fn
          3. Phil77
            Phil77 21 November 2020 11: 26
            -2
            Quote: kalibr
            informing

            Power! It is the authorities who will do everything possible so that they don’t believe it !! ¡!!! fNo? I will see the answers with interest.
        2. kalibr
          kalibr 21 November 2020 11: 27
          -6
          Dear Lyudmila Yakovlevna! I advised you to read your articles, and there are a lot of them, too. But there is a textbook on the Web (online) https://www.studmed.ru/view/shpakovskiy-vo-shpakovskaya-sv-istoriya-svyazey-s-obschestvennostyu_8ce784d6826.html, where in the introduction everything is accurately described, what is, who, what who is doing. You will quickly know everything. Well, it will be interesting, you can read the whole book. It's easy to read ...
        3. La Peruse
          La Peruse 21 November 2020 11: 59
          +1
          Gg a lot of videos about the Vladivostok port. Especially as workers accept this "nationalization" on the wave of covid there is a banal redistribution of property. If on about. Russian did not coffin this Port nafig nor Kama would need
        4. BAI
          BAI 21 November 2020 17: 47
          +2
          My erudition in terms of propaganda is also no

          Brilliant assessment of the knowledge of Mr. Shpakovsky in the field of propaganda.
    2. sniperino
      sniperino 21 November 2020 17: 37
      -1
      Quote: Jacket in stock
      Oh damn, the Chinese have soulful songs.
      An old man's tear gleamed in his left eye, though not a Chinese.
  • parusnik
    parusnik 21 November 2020 07: 23
    +9
    A leaflet is presented, everything is clear NATO is the enemy, and at the official level they said, yes, the enemy. And now? At the official level, they say that there are no enemies, all NATO countries are partners, at economic forums that the West will help us, more foreign investment is needed ... What kind of military propaganda can we talk about?
    1. Lech from Android.
      Lech from Android. 21 November 2020 07: 32
      +6
      Around partners and colleagues, as Lavrov says, I listen to the speeches of Biden or Stoltenberg about enemy Russia and laugh ... remembering Lavrov ... partners are good ... What a kindergarten. smile
      1. Niel-le-Calais
        Niel-le-Calais 21 November 2020 11: 55
        -1
        Quote: Lech from Android.
        Around partners and colleagues, as Lavrov says

        in general, that is, the official part and the unofficial (semi-official)
        Officially, one can only say good things (you are our partners). Others can be told semi-officially that THEY are not such good partners, and unofficially, others can be said that they are not partners at all.
        And the fourth (their citizens) can not say anything at all. Either they themselves will guess, or it is not their mind that matters what course the galley has.
    2. Pilot
      Pilot 21 November 2020 08: 09
      +3
      Quote: parusnik
      What kind of military propaganda can we talk about.
      The fact is that military propaganda is in the wake of political propaganda, in which the uplifting successfully rules and has no analogues, and the collective West sleeps and sees how to throw it off .. Accordingly, military propaganda is forced to follow this bad trend.
    3. depressant
      depressant 21 November 2020 11: 11
      +3
      Colleague parusnik, foreign investment is a very painful topic. Putin's policy to attract foreign investment is a photocopy of the economic behavior of Nicholas II, namely: a convertible ruble so that foreign investors can export excess profits from the development of minerals. And so that the ruble could be converted, grain and other food products were raked abroad for gold. The people became impoverished, the GDP growth rate grew, but only due to the growth in the level of looting of the subsoil. And where did this lead the king? To the basement, where he was shot with his family.
      And when they tell me that, they say, under the tsar, the industry grew by leaps and bounds, you can only convince me that instead of ours, the industry of Western countries grew at a doubled rate due to the colonial robbery of Russia. And in our country, the extraction of minerals was growing as the property of foreign investors.
      The growth of industry, the real sector of the Russian economy was replaced by the growth of exaggerated economic indicators - numbers on paper. Only the king grew richer. I got rich.
      1. kalibr
        kalibr 21 November 2020 11: 31
        -2
        Investments are not needed for this. 33,5% of property (including investment) given to foreigners is a guarantee against war. Nobody will allow politicians and warriors to throw bombs on "their" factories and oil rigs. What do they say in the USA? What's good for ... (the right choice!) Is good for America too! But in reality, the manufacturers of Coca-Cola and jeans rule everything. The coronavirus is not a hindrance to them!
        1. depressant
          depressant 21 November 2020 12: 01
          +4
          And they saved the Nobel oil rigs in the Caspian - yes, that very one! - Tsarist Russia from the war?
        2. Lirik R
          Lirik R 21 November 2020 21: 41
          0
          The current investment is largely technology. Offshore work, for example. Moreover, it is necessary to twist and keep up so that the investor is not pushed with sanctions.
  • north 2
    north 2 21 November 2020 07: 30
    -18 qualifying.
    the author is itching that he found another sphere where the Russians, it turns out, do not sprinkle ashes on their heads enough. It turns out that this Russian military propaganda spread panic among the US military through all sources of the Western media, when they almost fainted in their articles arguing about what would happen to the US aircraft carrier if Russia was able to place a shipborne ship on its KARAKURT RTOs. variant of their newest hypersonic missiles. And what does it have to do with it
    here are cruisers from the carrier's security order, if there are still no anti-aircraft systems on US ships that could shoot down the latest Russian hypersonic missiles. So you pour the ashes to yourself
    on the head not only for the fact that the Russians are to blame that the United States is afraid of the latest Russian missiles, but also
    sprinkle ashes on your head for the fact that the Russian is everywhere and always to blame, even if the US sailor did not reach the latrine ... After all, how can it be that suddenly a powerful army and powerful
    state-of-the-art weapons and impressive victories in Crimea and Syria, while the Russians still
    Wouldn't they consider themselves guilty for that !? But such a way of life cannot. It shouldn't! Then here you, please, and the article. Dust your head with ashes, repent that you were able to win and compare yourself and today's Russia for some reason with Russia during the Russian-Japanese war, as here in the article suggests.
    And I want to remind the author that in reality in Russia there is a lot of better things in the world. This and
    weapons, theater, art, ballet, literature, army, soldiers, sailors, navy, etc ... By the way, the fools in Russia are the worst in the whole world ...
    1. Asad
      Asad 21 November 2020 07: 50
      11
      You are like from this article about propaganda, everything we have is the best! I don't understand ballet, but cinema, theater, it was the best in the USSR! And as for hypersound, they haven't sunk anyone yet!
      1. Phil77
        Phil77 21 November 2020 10: 27
        +3
        Quote: ASAD
        but cinema, theater, it was the best in the USSR!

        And not only that, dear!
        Alas, all this has sunk into oblivion. When? Probably not in 91st, but earlier. It collapsed in 91st, but began to rot, somewhere in the eighties. Whose fault? Well, certainly not ordinary citizens of the great, once, country. Although ....? That's also a question! looking from here, from 2020! Is not it?
        1. depressant
          depressant 21 November 2020 12: 34
          +3
          Seryozha, the best thing that happened in the USSR was the Stalinist double-circuit financial system, introduced in 1930. For workers - real money for wages, so that they can go to the store and buy something, and for the enterprise - non-cash money, so that they can settle accounts with suppliers of components by bank transfer. It is impossible to steal such money, it is impossible to bribe it. As a result, 10 large industrial enterprises were built in 9000 years. Damn, 900 factories and factories a year! Of these, only a few were bought from foreigners for gold.
          Stalin died, the system was brought to naught - here he is, a quiet, smooth transition to capitalism, invisible to the eyes of an ordinary citizen.
          But what kind of propaganda will convince me of the advantages of capitalism? Where are these Soviet enterprises now? They are ruins! This is instead of upgrading them! Many were unique. At the time of ditching and subsequent turning into ruins, their products were in demand on the world market. Zen tells me about this meanness of capitalism every day. A whole community of stalkers has been formed who roam abandoned factories, factories, sanatoriums, rest homes, pioneer camps, scientific institutions, army warehouses, offices of military units, underground storage facilities, Stas Polesskiy walks around Pripyat! - and all this crime of current capitalism is laid out on the Web ...

          What can current propaganda oppose to the image of the greatness of a ruined country? Only miserable attempts to seem significant - attempts subjected to ridicule by all neighbors, even the most insignificant of them. Vaughn, the new leader of Moldova - I can't remember her name - said: "I won't pay for the gas consumed!"
          We lived ... We lived to the point of complete national humiliation, and no propaganda will make me proudly straighten my shoulders.
          1. Vitaly gusin
            Vitaly gusin 21 November 2020 14: 52
            -1
            Quote: depressant
            We lived to the point of complete national humiliation, and no propaganda will make me proudly straighten my shoulders.

            Maybe it will relax YOU a little, smile.
            1. depressant
              depressant 21 November 2020 15: 02
              +1
              Colleague, you first gave a link to the melodeclamation of Blok's poems? ))) I listened to it, thank you very much! love )))
              The mood was definitely raised.
              1. Vitaly gusin
                Vitaly gusin 21 November 2020 15: 06
                +1
                Quote: depressant
                Colleague, you first gave a link to the melodeclamation of Blok's poems? ))) I listened to it, thank you very much! love )))
                The mood was definitely raised.

                I did not notice, but the main thing is the result and positive emotions. I'm glad I helped at least with something.
              2. Phil77
                Phil77 21 November 2020 20: 01
                +2
                Quote: depressant
                The mood was definitely raised.

                And if so?

                Didn't expect, right? love
          2. sniperino
            sniperino 21 November 2020 18: 06
            -3
            Quote: depressant
            said: "I will not pay for the gas consumed!" Lived ...
            1. depressant
              depressant 21 November 2020 20: 38
              +2
              Let Sandu uh ... No, I can't wish bad people! But you have to pay for gas)))
              1. Liam
                Liam 21 November 2020 20: 48
                -4
                Moldova has no gas debts
                1. depressant
                  depressant 21 November 2020 20: 56
                  +3
                  I admit it)) But for some reason today the first morning news on Yandex was Sandu's decisive statement about his refusal to pay for gas. Later, there was only a demand to withdraw our troops from Transnistria. Did you hurry up and already paid? Or is Yandex buggy? Yesterday it was buggy for sure))) The digital world, however, is so))
                  1. Liam
                    Liam 21 November 2020 21: 00
                    -6
                    It may sometimes make sense to read not only titles on Yandex, but also texts)
                    This is not about the debts of Moldova, but of Transnistria, where Gazprom has been supplying gas for free for 30 years. These are internal Russian affairs ... the payment for the Russian world, so to speak. 7 billion dollars
                    1. Phil77
                      Phil77 21 November 2020 21: 11
                      -3
                      Quote: Liam
                      Russian world

                      It costs a lot, this * Russian world *. belay
                      And the citizens of Russia, as always ...
                      * No money. But you hold on *. wink
                      And most importantly, wear masks and gloves !!!
                      1. Liam
                        Liam 21 November 2020 21: 20
                        -3
                        Quote: Phil77
                        A little expensive

                        Well, this is only gas. Plus, Russia also pays pensions, the maintenance of the state apparatus, and much more. Several tens of billions have come over these years. Moreover, the tsimmes is that gas comes to Transnistria from Russia for free ... but the population of the PMR naturally pays for the gas used).
                      2. Phil77
                        Phil77 21 November 2020 21: 24
                        -1
                        Quote: Liam
                        gas naturally pays).

                        So I write. The main thing for today. These are masks !!! laughing
                        Sarcasm, if anyone did not understand. belay
                      3. Liam
                        Liam 21 November 2020 21: 32
                        -3
                        It is clear that those few non-poor comrades (in Transnistria, Moldova and Russia) grabbed their teeth into such "independence" whose 7 yards ended up in their personal pockets
                      4. Phil77
                        Phil77 21 November 2020 21: 35
                        -1
                        Alas and ah! But ... * people are silent *.
              2. Lirik R
                Lirik R 21 November 2020 23: 12
                0
                If someone openly wants to be with you, then you need to support - someone somewhere else does it differently?
              3. ccsr
                ccsr 22 November 2020 11: 29
                +4
                Quote: Liam
                These are internal Russian affairs ... payment for the Russian world, so to speak.

                And nothing that according to statistics
                Today, over 220 citizens of the Russian Federation live in Transnistria, but compatriots are all 000 residents of the PMR.

                Why shouldn't we care about the citizens of Russia in Transnistria, if they are likely to eventually enter our country as an enclave?
                1. Liam
                  Liam 22 November 2020 12: 32
                  -5
                  Take care of your health. It is only surprising that some imagine this as Molzhov's debt for gas
                2. Cherry Nine
                  Cherry Nine 22 November 2020 16: 35
                  -1
                  Quote: Liam
                  It is just surprising that some present it as Molzhov's debt for gas

                  )))
                  Well, the idea of ​​billing someone for your own stolen goods is a classic. The topic of Ukraine's debts for gas in CADLO arises regularly.
                3. timokhin-aa
                  22 November 2020 20: 22
                  +3
                  Excuse me, what is wrong with these debts?
                4. Lirik R
                  Lirik R 22 November 2020 20: 45
                  -3
                  Well, Ukraine has been stealing someone else's gas from someone else's pipe with its own hand for years, let it suffer now)
              4. timokhin-aa
                22 November 2020 20: 56
                +1
                Whose duty is this?
              5. Liam
                Liam 22 November 2020 21: 04
                -3
                Quote: timokhin-aa
                Whose duty is this?

                Tiraspoltransgaz LLC.
              6. timokhin-aa
                22 November 2020 21: 16
                +2
                What does it mean that Tiraspoltransgaz has a contract with Gazprom to buy gas?
              7. Liam
                Liam 22 November 2020 21: 17
                -5
                Naturally
  • kalibr
    kalibr 21 November 2020 21: 24
    +2
    Quote: depressant
    As a result, 10 large industrial enterprises were built in 9000 years. Damn, 900 factories and factories a year! Of these, only a few were bought from foreigners for gold.

    To begin with, we present a short excerpt from an article by the well-known historian and economist Oleg Osetinsky, which briefly describes the history of Soviet industrialization:
    “In just 10 years (1930-1940), the Yankees created in the USSR chemical, aviation, electrical, oil, mining, coal, metallurgical and other industries, the largest factories in Europe for the production of cars, tractors, aircraft engines and other products. They were built both in the USSR and in the USA. For example, the famous Stalingrad Tractor Plant was entirely built in the USA, dismantled, transported on 100 ships - and assembled in the USSR. Dneproges was built by the American Cooper Engineering Company (and the German Siemens). The Gorky Automobile Plant was built by the American company Austin. The current AZLK was built according to a Ford project. The famous Magnitogorsk is an exact copy of the metallurgical plant in Gary, Indiana. Albert Kahn Inc designed and built 500 Soviet factories! It was she who created the school of advanced industrial architecture in the USSR. In short, in 10 years the Americans built about 1.500 plants and factories in the USSR! About 200 thousand American engineers and technicians came to the USSR, who led the almost one million army of the Gulag prisoners - plus the few pre-revolutionary cadres remaining in Russia. During these 10 years, American professors have trained three hundred thousand qualified specialists at the workers' faculties - that is, all the cadres for Soviet industry for many years to come! Thus, the material base of socialism was built by the capitalists of the United States, plus the cheap labor of convicts. And - do not forget that the capitalists built the USSR with their own money - on credit! "
    “The Germans are for us the only outlet through which we can study achievements in military affairs abroad,” wrote Jerome Uborevich, the chief of armaments of the Workers 'and Peasants' Red Army (RKKA), to Stalin at that time. The Germans built factories in the USSR and placed their orders on them. Some of the planes and guns were left in Russia, and some were taken to their place.
    1. depressant
      depressant 21 November 2020 21: 44
      +1
      Excellent commentary, Vyacheslav Olegovich! This is me without a hint of humor. This is 1500 out of 9000 enterprises. Everything was paid in full and became ours, Soviet. Ours and ours alone.
      Now look at any enterprise of any significance in modern Russia. And what do you say? )))
      1. kalibr
        kalibr 21 November 2020 22: 20
        +1
        Quote: depressant
        And what do you say? )

        The fact that they are all on the same foundation, their own and new is very small.
      2. Phil77
        Phil77 22 November 2020 09: 34
        0
        Quote: depressant
        Now look at any enterprise of any significance in modern Russia. And what do you say? ))

        This action was called * globalism *.
        Renault is building a component plant next to my factory, even a common fence!
  • Lech from Android.
    Lech from Android. 21 November 2020 07: 53
    +3
    Of course, there are a lot of good things in Russia ... Then why does the Russian media prefer to drive crap and advertising mainly? Why in the editorials of well-known media we most often read about the next tragedy, thieves, murderers, swindlers, swindlers, psychic ah, visitors to Dom-2. .. A lot of chernukha falls on the heads of our inhabitants. So what do you want from our people after that? After all, this is also propaganda.
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 21 November 2020 11: 11
      +1
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      Then why does the Russian media prefer to drive chernukha and advertising mainly?

      Remember the second STAR WARS, where Luke asks Yoda about the dark side of the force ... Everything is the same. Journalists need to eat and drink, and for this to provide information. Information about the good and the positive must be sought (a businessman has set up a product release, he would have written about it, but he would not, "they will come with an iron!"), But information about bad information lies on the surface. Give me a camera and let me into the city - I will immediately find out where the disadvantages are. There is one more circumstance. People take "good" for granted. And there is no reaction! And the bad - immediately gives clicks, or letters to the editor. So what will you personally write about if you become a journalist?
  • kalibr
    kalibr 21 November 2020 08: 03
    -4
    Quote: north 2
    By the way, fools in Russia are the worst in the whole world ...

    This is your best comment! For 66 years of my life I have seen enough of them to my heart's content ...
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  • Lirik R
    Lirik R 21 November 2020 20: 41
    0
    There are no mistakes in someone who does nothing. The author also writes such strange things - hair on end ..
  • bober1982
    bober1982 21 November 2020 07: 33
    -3
    The Americans, Chinese, Svidomo, Azerbaijanis, etc., with propaganda, things are in the same way as we do - no better and no worse. The work is so delicate and someone has to do it, in most cases it turns out clumsy. Sometimes they even need to get out.
    I still remember the "best" examples of Soviet propaganda, namely:
    The weaknesses of French pilots are overly fond of women.
    The weaknesses of American pilots are too much money.
    The weaknesses of the German pilots are too straightforward.
    The weaknesses of the English pilots are too slow-witted.
    The strengths of the mentioned category of pilots were not mentioned.
    Well, and the famous - "Every bomb, missile right on target, from the first approach", are still imagined.
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 21 November 2020 11: 13
      -4
      Quote: bober1982
      no better and no worse.

      Because EVERYWHERE in society 80% of people are not too smart, educated and socialized. And why try for them? And for 20% of others, too, try not to figs, they themselves will find and know everything.
    2. Niel-le-Calais
      Niel-le-Calais 21 November 2020 12: 02
      -1
      Quote: bober1982
      The Americans, Chinese, Svidomo, Azerbaijanis, etc., with propaganda, things are the same as ours - no better and no worse

      oddly enough (after all, it should be)
      in the modern consumer world, people and money decide everything. Talented people and concrete money.
      And everyone has imbalances associated with this.
      And again, an unnecessarily large burden is made on a specific object of propaganda.
      But he is fed up. And then even more resources are needed to resume the action.
      This is justified for mobilization. But for a long preparation, it ruins the result.
    3. ccsr
      ccsr 21 November 2020 12: 27
      +2
      Quote: bober1982
      The Americans, Chinese, Svidomo, Azerbaijanis, etc., with propaganda, things are the same as with us - no better and no worse.

      With this I completely agree - we should not sprinkle ashes on our heads, since this was included in military science as an obligatory element of training. By the way, now it seems that political workers in the army are being restored again, which means that special propaganda will most likely be restored. And there were very smart and literate people there in Soviet times, and when the political agencies were dispersed, these departments were transferred to the intelligence departments of the districts, and this already says a lot. I am not even talking about the present time - now the role of special propaganda has increased dramatically, and only naive people can fail to understand this.
  • Bez 310
    Bez 310 21 November 2020 07: 35
    13
    The article is interesting and timely.
    For examples of ordinary people fooled by propaganda,
    You don't have to go far, just read the comments
    to any article on this resource. The number of people is holy
    believing in our superiority in the military field, simply
    rolls over.
    1. Sergey Averchenkov
      Sergey Averchenkov 21 November 2020 08: 18
      -7
      How did you famously classify ... "Commoners" ... "Dummy" ... you classified them again - that is, they are idiots? Most of the comments on VO are written by idiots? Did you express this on purpose or was it because of your inability to use the Russian language?
      1. Bez 310
        Bez 310 21 November 2020 08: 43
        12
        I'm fine with the Russian language.
        The meaning of the words "philistine" and "duped"
        you can look in the dictionaries yourself.
        1. Sergey Averchenkov
          Sergey Averchenkov 21 November 2020 14: 24
          -6
          Got it, and let's write it down - you think that the number of boobies on VO is off the charts. I know the meaning of these words even without dictionaries.
          1. Bez 310
            Bez 310 21 November 2020 17: 08
            +1
            Quote: Sergey Averchenkov
            I know the meaning of these words even without dictionaries

            Don't flatter yourself, look in dictionaries ...
            Re-read my post about "duped"
            again, try to understand what you read.
            I will remind you of the wording from the characteristics
            - "reads fluently, does not always understand what he has read."
            1. Sergey Averchenkov
              Sergey Averchenkov 21 November 2020 19: 56
              -2
              I never flatter myself, unlike you - I'm a bad person. Come on - hammer it, but just in case, remember that your opinion is not the only one and because it does not become yours the cornerstone of the universe - respect the opposite opinion and will respect you ... well, those who are on the opposite side. Good luck.
  • Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 21 November 2020 08: 07
    12
    Oh, the Author is right! Largely right! We can recall only one "winged" expression: "Those who do not have analogs in the world", which is hung on everything that shoots, "carries" weapons, can participate, one way or another, in hostilities! And it became a "parable" (or even a laughingstock ...) "in all tongues"! And how many "aircraft carrier killers" have appeared in the country recently ?! Whatever the development of any weapons, the "killer ..."! This, of course, can calm the townsfolk and create the illusion in them that "everything is fine, beautiful marquise! And we are doing well ....!" ... And the Ministry of Defense, the government - "doze" in the offices and sabotage plans for rearmament , additional equipment ... elimination of organizational and tactical errors in the structure of the armed forces. But, however, it did not backfire ....!
    1. Lirik R
      Lirik R 21 November 2020 22: 38
      +1
      What is an illusion in our Internet times? ) I went in and double-checked it 100500 times according to various sources. And who says "everything is fine"? They talk about the percentage of new and modernized usually)
      1. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 21 November 2020 23: 57
        -1
        Quote: Lirik R
        What is an illusion in our Internet times?

        Aren't you too optimistic, my dear, about the omnipotence of the "Great Internet"? stop You'd better ask your neighbors and acquaintances what they mostly read on the internet ... how often and how much time they spend there ... yes
        1. Lirik R
          Lirik R 22 November 2020 13: 50
          0
          Not at all. The main thing is to know what to look for)
  • Free wind
    Free wind 21 November 2020 08: 08
    -2
    Thank God I do not seem to be a NATO member, I washed my hands of blood, my face does not seem to be an animal, even some women like me, I doubt NATO's military leadership, the Turks are striving to unite Germany, I strongly doubt it. Soul. Damn in the USSR the concept of a soul was denied. The soul is religion. Home for not smart people is for a long time.
  • A. Privalov
    A. Privalov 21 November 2020 08: 34
    +9
    . At the very bottom of the propaganda pyramid - the jingoists themselves. Not being capable of critical thinking and understanding that their ideas about reality may differ from it, these people, communicating in various forums and online platforms, create for themselves a psychologically comfortable information environment, in which we have only a couple of days left before the storming of Washington.

    Well, you can't be so callous about people! And how do they bother you? They float to themselves on pink clouds in the blue heights, distracted a little from the hateful reality. In this way they get their simple pleasure. And you just pull them down and rattle on the ground. This is not good. Not humane. request
    For in general they are good and kind. Now, now you will see how they will add to me. lol
    1. Phil77
      Phil77 21 November 2020 08: 46
      0
      Quote: A. Privalov
      Now, now you will see how they will add to me.

      Good morning! Yes please! * Plus * -my. wink
      1. A. Privalov
        A. Privalov 21 November 2020 08: 52
        0
        Quote: Phil77
        Good morning! Yes please! * Plus * -my.

        Much obliged. And to you, joy in the morning and the whole day is no worse! hi
        1. Phil77
          Phil77 21 November 2020 09: 37
          +3
          Quote: A. Privalov
          joy and the whole day is not worse!

          With this light stress. November 16, mom turned 80! Celebrated yesterday, so ... you understand.
          1. A. Privalov
            A. Privalov 21 November 2020 09: 58
            +4
            Quote: Phil77
            mom turned 80!

            Congratulations!
            May the Almighty prolong her years!
            My mom turned 90 a month ago. Unfortunately, because of the coronavirus, they celebrated remotely. For such an event, she even mastered zoom.
            I hope that the little troubles of the morning will not overshadow your joy as the day continues. hi
            1. Phil77
              Phil77 21 November 2020 10: 41
              -2
              Quote: A. Privalov
              continuation of the day.
              !
              Thank you, dear Alexander! No, we have gathered in the bosom of the family. Virus? Yes, I saw him somewhere there .... 80 years old mother, what could be holier? If there is an opportunity to get together with a family? Probably we have such a breed, do not care. But, I repeat!
              The pressure is growing. For obvious reasons, my wife and I were traveling by bus, 10 percent of passengers, no masks! What I welcome! There are free and healthy people in Russia!
              1. A. Privalov
                A. Privalov 21 November 2020 10: 54
                +3
                Quote: Phil77
                family.Virus? Yes, I saw it somewhere there .... 80 years old mother, what could be holier? if there is an opportunity to get together as a family?

                You are right, but in a big country it is really not very visible, and in a small country - here it is, very close.
                We decided not to risk it. Mom's health is holier. Moreover, everyone here has heard a recent wedding attended by a well-known person in our area, where 80% of those present fell ill, 9 died, and he himself suffered a serious illness, but miraculously survived.
                1. Phil77
                  Phil77 21 November 2020 11: 05
                  -6
                  Quote: A. Privalov
                  We decided not to risk it

                  Alexander, here you are not afraid ????? What exactly with this and begin to * clean up * human rights ????? !!! ¡!! Yes, remember, you, the flu of the 70s in Moscow !!!! ! Half of the schools were half filled !!!!!! But people like Popova, thank God !!!!!!!!!, and it was not close to medicine !!!!
                  1. A. Privalov
                    A. Privalov 21 November 2020 11: 41
                    +6
                    Quote: Phil77
                    Quote: A. Privalov
                    We decided not to risk it

                    Alexander, here you are not afraid ????? What exactly with this and begin to * clean up * human rights ????? !!! ¡!! Yes, remember, you, the flu of the 70s in Moscow !!!! ! Half of the schools were half filled !!!!!! But people like Popova, thank God !!!!!!!!!, and it was not close to medicine !!!!

                    John McDaniel from Columbus, Ohio, the main US “commoner” and pandemic denier:
                    "Are there really no people with eggs who can directly say: this COVID-19 is a propaganda ploy? Ask your friends and prove that I am wrong," he wrote on his blog on March 13.

                    Two days later, McDaniel called the governor's quarantine regime, which included the closure of bars and restaurants, "stupid."
                    "He has no authority on this. If you are paranoid and so afraid of getting sick, then stay at home. But do not force others to sit locked up. This madness must be stopped!"

                    He called the pandemic a "political stunt" and the quarantine regime "nonsense."
                    McDaniel was 60. Big guy. No chronic illnesses. At the end of March, doctors diagnosed him with a coronavirus. He died in the hospital in April.

                    As they say, Sapienti sat.

                    Although, we also have a lot of fighters. Some want to pray in a crowd, others - to walk at weddings and prancing in the halls of celebrations, others shout that they are forbidden to protest against the current Head of Government, etc.
                    I do not feel or fear any infringement of my human rights. Our country has a very decent quality of democracy. I understand the prohibitions of the quarantine time with understanding. hi
                    1. BAI
                      BAI 21 November 2020 17: 53
                      0
                      Two days later, McDaniel called the governor's quarantine regime, which included the closure of bars and restaurants, "stupidity"

                      And we have? Why is it possible to visit the restaurant before 23-00, but not after 23-00? The virus sits with a stopwatch and after 23-00 rushes at people with a vengeance?
                      1. Phil77
                        Phil77 21 November 2020 20: 43
                        0
                        The idiocy of bureaucrats just rolls over!
                      2. A. Privalov
                        A. Privalov 22 November 2020 21: 49
                        +1
                        Quote: BAI
                        And we have? Why is it possible to visit the restaurant before 23-00, but not after 23-00? The virus sits with a stopwatch and after 23-00 rushes at people with a vengeance?

                        - Sergey Semenovich, why did you ban the catering after 23-00?
                        - Exactly at 23-00 Bill Gates turns on his 5 Gee towers and all food in the catering is infected with the coronavirus!
                        - Why does Bill Gates turn on his towers exactly at 23-00?
                        - I don’t know, I’m not Bill Gates
                    2. Phil77
                      Phil77 21 November 2020 20: 33
                      -1
                      Quote: A. Privalov
                      there are many fighters.

                      I don’t call myself that. It's just .... a lot, a lot of informational speculations around the * virus *. A lot of.
                      1. A. Privalov
                        A. Privalov 21 November 2020 20: 51
                        +1
                        Quote: Phil77
                        I don’t call myself that. It's just .... a lot, a lot of informational speculations around the * virus *. A lot of.

                        I have long ceased to pay attention to any nonsense. I have many friends of old doctors. Their children are already doctors themselves. Two of them work with Covid19 in different hospitals. I listen to them, read the reports of our Ministry of Health, follow the quarantine regulations and look to the future with hope. fellow
                      2. Phil77
                        Phil77 21 November 2020 20: 55
                        0
                        Quote: A. Privalov
                        I look to the future with hope.

                        Alexander, I also think that a person will start ... just thinking. There is still hope.
                      3. A. Privalov
                        A. Privalov 21 November 2020 21: 24
                        +2
                        Quote: Phil77
                        And I also think that a person will start ... just thinking. There is still hope.

                        I hope for the best. hi
    2. kalibr
      kalibr 21 November 2020 11: 15
      +1
      From me too. + Well, how not to show in the comments your zeal and virtue and not to condemn evil and insidious enemies, intellectuals, liberals, agents of the State Department and grant eaters. You can't deprive people of such pleasure!
  • sniperino
    sniperino 21 November 2020 18: 20
    +3
    Quote: A. Privalov
    Thus, they get their simple pleasure. ... Now, now you will see how they will plus me
    Judging by the estimates of your commentary, there are 3 times more self-satisfied people in an unpretentious way (12: 4).
    1. A. Privalov
      A. Privalov 21 November 2020 20: 06
      +2
      Quote: sniperino
      Judging by the estimates of your commentary, there are 3 times more self-satisfied people in an unpretentious way (12: 4).

      Very well. What confuses you?
  • nikvic46
    nikvic46 21 November 2020 08: 58
    +4
    I agree with the author. Nevertheless, it is easier to carry on propaganda in the army. There, officers and privates are bound by an oath, and the main sense of collectivism is lacking in civil society. Advocacy should start with young nails. The achievement of children at the individual level is beyond doubt. But the feeling of friendship is completely absent. Either it manifests itself in the fact that a Caudl is beating one, or they watch together as their comrade is beaten. I was still studying from textbooks, where on the first page there were portraits of the leaders of the world proletariat. Now you can think of something else, you just have to strain your brains. tight. We follow the wave of least resistance, or with the flow. Mercantile eyes were blurred.
    1. Niel-le-Calais
      Niel-le-Calais 21 November 2020 12: 06
      +3
      Quote: nikvic46
      ... Nevertheless, it is easier to carry on propaganda in the army

      logical. In adolescents, the sense of imprinting is heightened.
      Children are also easy to graft. They are a clean sheet. They absorb like a sponge.
      And the youth of the primates, in general, is the consumable material of wars. Easily amenable to slogans, aggressive, mobile, etc.
      Humanity has always fought with youth.
      Now the youth have grown wiser globally. And the slogans have aged globally.
  • Sergey Nikiforov
    Sergey Nikiforov 21 November 2020 09: 00
    +9
    All our propaganda today is based on lies And lies are at all levels What do we want then
  • Aleks2000
    Aleks2000 21 November 2020 09: 04
    +3
    The difference is one.
    China is really developing, really trying to adopt the best, really punishing and shooting corrupt officials - these are the rules of the game.

    In Russia, the authorities pretend. Thousands of armatures and dozens of Su57s, overexposures, nuclear missiles and torpedoes are announced when they are not really there.
    They pretend that they are punishing Tsyplakov, senators, ministers, saying aloud, "you understand, you can't" (Putin).

    In 10-20 years, China will develop, master cold fusion and oil will, as it were, end. And the Scribe will come ...
    Not to amers, but to oil pumping stations ...
    1. bober1982
      bober1982 21 November 2020 09: 44
      +1
      Quote: Alex2000
      China is really developing, really trying to adopt the best, really punishing and shooting corrupt officials - these are the rules of the game

      And why? Because they shoot not only corrupt officials, but also, at one time, with tank tracks and machine-gun bursts, they mowed down all kinds of talkers, demagogues and enemies of the people (Chinese)
      So, all the military propaganda, clear and effective, everything else is chatter, what is ours, what is not ours.
      1. kalibr
        kalibr 21 November 2020 11: 19
        -5
        Quote: bober1982
        Because they shoot

        We also shot for many years. But for some reason, all of them are not those and from the 91st it still did not save.
        1. BAI
          BAI 21 November 2020 17: 55
          +1
          How is it in "Elusive ....."?
          "You can't shoot everyone!"
          1. kalibr
            kalibr 21 November 2020 18: 05
            -1
            Quote: BAI
            How is it in "Elusive ....."?
            "You can't shoot everyone!"

            The problem is that you simply won't be able to shoot all those who disagree, let alone the fact that life will regularly drop new ones!
          2. Phil77
            Phil77 21 November 2020 21: 21
            0
            Quote: BAI
            You can't shoot everyone

            Bai! With all due respect, but ...

            This is from here.
            1. kalibr
              kalibr 22 November 2020 17: 11
              0
              The stones are a bit small ... don't you think? And the ropes ... Some kind of low-haired whites. It's easier to poke in the stomach with a bayonet, scroll a couple of times and that's it, let it lie and die itself. And then - they came up with a hassle. "I do not believe"
  • rocket757
    rocket757 21 November 2020 09: 10
    +1
    The point is to discuss what is everywhere and is developing, already, according to its own laws of the genre!
    Only life itself, objective reality, can resist it ... and even then, this does not always happen, people continue to listen, listen, listen and not look around.
    So it was, so it will be ...
  • nikvic46
    nikvic46 21 November 2020 09: 17
    +2
    I no longer hear from one political scientist: "The state owes you nothing." But will this not cause a response. Since the state owes me nothing, then I also owe nothing to the state. But the duties of a citizen to the state are enough. Now there is a stream of different words from television, and now the child is learning what can be said and what will be more dear to himself.
  • 7,62h54
    7,62h54 21 November 2020 09: 25
    +1
    Propagated, propagandized and propagandized!
  • evgen1221
    evgen1221 21 November 2020 11: 17
    +5
    The best propaganda is a healthy moral and economic building of the state.
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 21 November 2020 11: 40
      +1
      Quote: evgen1221
      The best propaganda is a healthy moral and economic building of the state.

      High salaries, high pensions, child benefits, quality medicine and training! Salary - like in Japan, pensions - like in France, medicine ... just like in Japan. And the whole world will be in our pocket! Without any propaganda !!!
      1. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 21 November 2020 16: 41
        +6
        Vyacheslav, have you been to Japan, if you praise it like that? I have a suspicion that never. And I twice visited this country, and both times there was a complete impression that I got to the USSR during the period of its stagnation, about a year in 1980.
        1. kalibr
          kalibr 21 November 2020 16: 54
          -2
          Now, Sergei, it is enough to open the Internet and look at the level of the average salary to know it. And, yes, I myself have not been there, but my former graduate student and my co-author on the book "Modern Japanese Advertising. This is how they do it there", visited there many times, while still a student. Then she got her own center for teaching Japanese, and she began to travel there regularly. And you think where did I get a whole series of books "Atlas of the Samurai", "Samurai. The first complete encyclopedia", articles about them. Where does the information come from? Of course, I was primarily interested in information about the past. But it is understandable, she told a lot of all the interesting things about today. My granddaughter studied Japanese and I regularly went with her to her center. There was something to talk about ...
          1. Aviator_
            Aviator_ 21 November 2020 20: 27
            +6
            A granddaughter with a graduate student is, of course, good, but it's worth plunging into their terrible bureaucracy (I exchanged dollars for yen there for half an hour), and make sure that their "progress" is extremely selective. So, to eliminate the accident at Fukushima, they could not make robots working in conditions of hard radiation (there were domestic ones in Chernobyl), they did not make a sarcophagus, as they did in
            hated by you the USSR, and everything is still pouring into the Pacific Ocean. Again, in the 70s they tried to create their own civil aircraft, but, for some reason, they could not. So I have no doubt that they have everything in order with advertising, but alas, with business. By the way, the level of the average salary separately from other factors does not say anything.
            1. kalibr
              kalibr 21 November 2020 21: 32
              -4
              Quote: Aviator_
              I exchanged dollars for yen there for half an hour

              And in half an hour I received the information I needed from the museum. So this example does not say anything. And the salary ... in any case, it is better to get as much as they do than we do. Well, I know well about pensions in Germany and France. I was interested when I was there. And they are much higher than ours, even taking into account all kinds of payments, much more remains on hand.
              1. Aviator_
                Aviator_ 21 November 2020 21: 44
                +4
                Again.
                1) I explain - the bureaucracy there is terrible. I experienced it myself.
                2) Next. The conversation is about Japan, not about Germany and not about France, there is no need to jump off.
                3) The size of the salary, taken separately from other factors, does not say anything. This is a classic propaganda trick that worked during the late Soviet Union - "Look, what a big salary they have, but we have little." And the fact that there were public consumption funds in the USSR was somehow forgotten, well, it was not emphasized. The layman believed that they would always be.
                4) Then - about their never-started aviation industry - well, their country did not pull it.
                5) And with Fukushima - the same, complete failure.
                But in terms of advertising, they are masters, it looks like you bought it when you wrote the book.
                1. kalibr
                  kalibr 21 November 2020 22: 11
                  -4
                  Quote: Aviator_
                  4) Then - about their never-started aviation industry - well, their country did not pull it.
                  5) And with Fukushima - the same, complete failure.
                  But in terms of advertising, they are masters, it looks like you bought it when you wrote the book.

                  I am not an expert on airplanes, here, probably, the cards are in your hands. Fukushima did not exist at that time. When it comes to advertising, why not use someone else's good experience? And then, yes, they have a lot to learn. By the way, a book about Japanese advertising was published both here and in Germany. And about public funds ... We're not talking about the USSR, but about now. All this has little to do with my pension. But I am in favor of taking the best from everywhere, and not counting our austerity for the good!
                  1. Aviator_
                    Aviator_ 21 November 2020 22: 22
                    +4
                    We are not talking about the USSR,

                    Quite right. But you started with Japan as a benchmark. I allowed myself to doubt the quality of this standard.
                    and our austerity is not considered good!

                    Do not ascribe your statements to me, I did not write about domestic austerity
                    Fukushima did not exist at that time.

                    It (more precisely, the fight against its consequences) has shown the impotence of this publicized "Japanese economic miracle". The "miracle" was in the 60s and 70s. In the 1980st century, the generation that created the "miracle" has already died out, and the next one goes by inertia, on the previous achievements, that's why Japan reminded me of the USSR in XNUMX.
                    1. kalibr
                      kalibr 21 November 2020 22: 27
                      -3
                      Quote: Aviator_
                      and our austerity is not considered good!

                      Do not ascribe your statements to me, I did not write about domestic austerity.

                      It’s probably too late and you’re tired. Because nothing from the text says that I attribute this to you. It's just that from your comments it turns out that everyone is also bad, but we have achieved everything conceivable and we have no one to learn from. It seems to me that there is. The Japanese did not build an airplane, but they built good tankers, and they have good electronics. You can always find something to find fault with, and what to borrow.
                      1. Aviator_
                        Aviator_ 21 November 2020 22: 29
                        +1
                        It's just that from your comments it turns out that everyone is also bad, but we have achieved everything conceivable and we have no one to learn from.

                        This does not follow from my comments. I only pointed out the popularity of Japan. It looks like you are tired.
                      2. Lirik R
                        Lirik R 21 November 2020 22: 58
                        -2
                        The main thing is that the Japanese (and the Germans as well) have sold themselves for access to the American and other "sub-American" markets. Do I want "for protection" to be foreign military bases, the inhabitants of which regularly and with impunity rape women and girls, and the natives in response to this had the right only to stand with placards and shout into a megaphone at the fence of these bases, as in Okinawa? So - let the tankers and electronics bought at such a price fly to hell.
                      3. kalibr
                        kalibr 22 November 2020 07: 41
                        0
                        Quote: Lirik R
                        rape women regularly and with impunity

                        Do you know that for sure? Where from? From newspapers from Okinawa?
                      4. Lirik R
                        Lirik R 22 November 2020 14: 04
                        +2
                        They rape, kill, break doors into houses .. How do you speak English? However, now there are online translators ..
                        For Okinawans, these incidents have deeply unpleasant echoes of earlier heinous crimes. According to local police statistics, 741 serious crimes involving US military personnel or civilian employees of the US forces or their relatives were investigated between 1972, when Okinawa reverted to Japanese control, and the end of 2015.
                        There were 574 convictions, including 129 for rape, 394 cases of burglary and 26 murders.
                        Arguably the most notorious case - one which still raises the hackles of Okinawans - was the abduction and rape of a 12-year-old girl by three US military personnel in September 1995.
                        The case led to huge protests against the US presence in the prefecture, with tens of thousands of demonstrators calling for the Status of Forces Agreement (SOFA), which governs the actions of US troops in Japan, to be revised.
                        So what? The bases were in place as they were.
                      5. kalibr
                        kalibr 22 November 2020 14: 13
                        -2
                        I'm good with English. And the numbers, yes, are impressive. Too much! The Yankees were completely loose. Although if you look at our modern crime chronicle, then ... we also impress. Just now teenagers raped a woman with a poker handle, and her roommate was killed. Teenagers, not soldiers ... So if you compare this and ours, then ... it is not yet known where it will be worse. Although Okinawa is smaller, of course ...
                      6. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 22 November 2020 16: 43
                        0
                        Quote: kalibr
                        Do you know that for sure? Where from? From newspapers from Okinawa?

                        )))
                        Quoted from a Chinese newspaper, South China Morning Post. The Chinese fighting for the rights of the Japanese against the Americans - no, the Japanese are not dumb enough to buy into it.
                      7. Lirik R
                        Lirik R 22 November 2020 19: 28
                        0
                        And what - there was nothing written in Okinawa?
                      8. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 22 November 2020 20: 07
                        0
                        Quote: Lirik R
                        there was nothing written in Okinawa?

                        Of course it was. Only in the USA, according to statistics, there are 30-40 wear and tear per year per 100 thousand of the population, and in Okinawa, judging by the text of Chinese human rights fighters, 3 wear per year per 50 thousand Americans, and mainly young men with low education from families with low income. This characterizes the discipline of American soldiers very highly.
                        Quote: Lirik R
                        And Americans, with a share of 4% of the world's population, have a quarter of all prisoners in prisons in the world.

                        You're right, the American criminal justice system is a shame in this country. Even in Russia, the situation is better, although it is impossible to believe it. And the question is what?
                  2. Lirik R
                    Lirik R 22 November 2020 19: 33
                    0
                    And Americans, with a share of 4% of the world's population, have a quarter of all prisoners in prisons in the world - but where is the connection?
  • Phil77
    Phil77 21 November 2020 21: 48
    -4
    Quote: kalibr
    ... And the salary ... in any case, it is better to get as much as they do than we do.

    Eh, no !!! Fomenko's dictum, about * better to speak Honduras *, is quite appropriate here.
    Our * barrack * is the most fun! laughing
    Good evenings to you! Vyacheslav Olegovich! And to you, dear Aviator!
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 21 November 2020 22: 12
      +1
      Quote: Phil77
      Good evenings to you! Vyacheslav Olegovich

      Thank you, Sergey! All the best to you too.
    2. Phil77
      Phil77 21 November 2020 22: 19
      -1
      Quote: Phil77
      Vyacheslav Olegovich!

      So do you agree? About the * funny barrack *? If you compare with Europe, then I think you will agree. They are Europeans! * Knock * on neighbors! About masks, horror. laughing
      1. kalibr
        kalibr 21 November 2020 22: 34
        0
        Quote: Phil77
        About the masks, horror.

        Do you know what worries me, Sergei? Why do I buy beer in the Czech Republic, and then exactly the same from us (but on the comb 46), but it tastes like heaven and earth. Why is that? And now I have a direct search - to find a bottle of beer with the numbers 40 - there is the quality of foam and taste, and we have the same - big g. But it was made under a license? But in my Metro store, croissants are baked indistinguishable from those that I ate at the Paul Café in the center of Paris. This is a real achievement!
  • ccsr
    ccsr 21 November 2020 17: 09
    +5
    Quote: evgen1221
    The best propaganda is a healthy moral and economic building of the state.

    I would not like examples, but I will not restrain myself, and I will note that during the period of power of the USSR, in my opinion, the GDR represented the best country in the world in terms of its moral and economic structure. Until now, there is nothing like this in the world - whoever says anything about GDP per capita. The country was unified, order for all citizens was ensured at a high level, and not a single emigrant could look askance at a German policeman, and God forbid, oppose the government. Moreover, a reasonable combination of private and social production made the country the leader in the world in some industries, and this will be confirmed by many who lived at that time and knew from the inside this independent state of Germans, and not those prostituted politicians of modern Germany.
  • Doccor18
    Doccor18 21 November 2020 11: 34
    0
    Thanks to Alexander for the article.
    Propaganda, like any other business, requires professionalism.
    Inspirational propaganda without lies and omissions in its purest form. Will we ever learn to do the same?

    AUTHOR:

    It's hard to say when we'll learn.
    It is already sad to hear at the parade about the "unaligned in the world" Mste-S and T-90 ...
  • iouris
    iouris 21 November 2020 11: 45
    -2
    Is military propaganda designed to corrupt the enemy?
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 21 November 2020 14: 17
      -3
      Quote: iouris
      Is military propaganda designed to corrupt the enemy?

      On self-confidence)).
  • Nasdaq
    Nasdaq 21 November 2020 11: 54
    -2
    Quote: Cosm22
    The article is not bad.
    Especially the ending - "Inspirational propaganda without lies and omissions in its pure form. Will we ever learn to do the same?"
    But the question arises - if lies and omissions are removed from our today's propaganda, then what will be left of it?

    Pavel Durov (founder of VKontakte and Telegram) studied propaganda and psychological warfare.
    He was not sickly trolling Roskomnadzor. So the preparation is not so bad there. It's another matter who sets what tasks, here there is something to work on.
  • ccsr
    ccsr 21 November 2020 12: 16
    -1
    A fresh example is the coverage of the marine part of the Kavkaz-2020 command and control squadron, where DIMK MO has completely disgraced itself (reference to shame).

    In fact, Timokhin himself was disgraced then, because he was well tricked with his face for his illiterate conclusions and outright absurdity in his assessment of those teachings - this is easy to find in the comments to that article.
    As for the personality of Major General I.E. Konashenkov, against whom the article is directed, as I understand it, to be honest, his military biography is much more honorable than that of the author of the article, and this already commands respect. But there is one more little touch - he still bears the sign "Master of Sports of the USSR", and for this, under the current authorities, one must have courage for such a media person.
    1. Phil77
      Phil77 21 November 2020 19: 05
      0
      Quote: ccsr
      bears the sign "Master of Sports of the USSR"

      But for this, my * plus *! drinksYou!
  • Olgovich
    Olgovich 21 November 2020 12: 27
    -1
    Strange statement:
    customers of propaganda (in the Russian Federation this is the Ministry of Defense) should never, under any circumstances, believe in it themselves


    That is, according to the author, all the MO statements are .... FALSE?

    Or, on the contrary, the MO must not believe its own TRUTH ....? belay

    And then what?

    Further: on the one hand, the author writes that it is impossible to declare THIS::
    MRK "Karakurt" can "disable the aircraft carrier",
    while keeping silent about the fact
    how many things must coincide for the MRK to be at the range of a salvo from the aircraft carrier, and not be destroyed, and in the path of its missiles there would not be a single missile ship capable of protecting the aircraft carrier.

    On the other hand, it says the SAME about RYAV:
    But if then both the enemy and the conditions in which one would have to fight had been adequately assessed in advance, then everything could have been different.
    -.those. the same Kakrakurt will destroy Japan.

    Everyone and everyone knew, but Japan fought on its own shores and at a distance of 500 km from itself, and Russia at a distance of 10 km from itself on the coast, which only 000 years ago became, in fact, Russia. And this cannot be changed in a month, a year or two.
  • igorra
    igorra 21 November 2020 13: 19
    -1
    Young people have a notion of how to act in the modern digital world, but officers and generals sit higher, whose brain tissue is replaced by bone tissue and they no longer perceive anything new, except, of course, military knowledge and experience. This disease is not only the military - it concerns everyone, sometimes civilian services will give out such that at least fall. It is necessary to change, to teach, or rather to study, but generals, like all leaders, are afraid to seem ridiculous as ignoramuses, and this is the result.
    1. timokhin-aa
      21 November 2020 13: 46
      +4
      Well, for example, in the case of Gerasimov, this is not the case, moreover, this does not apply to the staff at all, their work requires constant training of intelligence.
    2. ccsr
      ccsr 21 November 2020 17: 18
      +4
      Quote: igorra
      ... This disease is not only for the military - it concerns everyone, sometimes the civil services will give out such that at least fall.

      The higher a person climbs the career ladder, the less he needs narrow-profile knowledge and the decisive is systemic thinking, i.e. the ability to see problem solving not as a technical problem, but as a means to rise to a higher level of systemic functioning. Unfortunately, people from the lower levels of the system often do not understand this, and measure all the world's problems at their own yardstick. But it is enough to look at the age of the departing designers of weapons and military equipment, and you involuntarily "wonder" why such smart and nimble "young talents" cannot rise to the level of these people. And you rub something "brain tissue" - you should have the kind of tissue that they have for the rest of their lives ...
  • alekc75
    alekc75 21 November 2020 13: 25
    +1
    first time I hear that rockets can be launched only in calm and without rolling !!!!! it's like ???? author ??
    1. timokhin-aa
      21 November 2020 13: 46
      +7
      With regard to those PUs that were planned in a container format, this is exactly the case.

      In general, for any ship weapon there are restrictions on the use, pitching is the main one.
  • Falcon5555
    Falcon5555 21 November 2020 14: 02
    -1
    State propaganda is a sign and property of an unfree society. In a free society, it cannot be that someone invests in the heads of taxpayers for their own money, beliefs that are not peculiar to them. Worse, state propaganda is usually based on lies, and sometimes there is one lie. For example, a quote from the text, from "first": "to inspire people with exaggerated ideas about our capabilities" - well, this is a lie, as well as "second". A free society needs freedoms, not propaganda. Military issues are no different from non-military issues, except that more centralized communication efforts are indispensable due to the closeness and subordination of the army. In this sense, the "Department of Information and Mass Communications of the Ministry of Defense" is called very competently, but its head ... Who followed, understands that his "imperfect" coverage of the Syrian events could lead to the death of the pilot and complications with Turkey and NATO. Although he may only have followed directions, as on other occasions ...
    1. Lirik R
      Lirik R 21 November 2020 21: 53
      -3
      Clumsy propaganda is a sign and property of an unfree society, yes. And there is nothing more clumsy than the western one. And the article is nonsense. Our capabilities are not so much exaggerated, it is possible to suggest)
      And any influence of coverage of the Syrian events by our Defense Ministry on the internal Turkish layouts is just a laughing matter for the chickens ..
  • Old26
    Old26 21 November 2020 14: 36
    +7
    Quote: Doccor18
    Propaganda, like any other business, requires professionalism.

    Unfortunately, not professionals are often needed, but "faithful" ones. And in the end result, instead of believing (or at least trusting) what the propaganda "speaks" about, a lot causes, if not outright laughter, then persistent rejection.
    It is clear that the same Konashenkov, being in the service, is forced to say that he was "let down from above", but one should not do it "clumsily". as often happens

    Quote: Doccor18
    Inspirational propaganda without lies and omissions in its purest form. Will we ever learn to do the same?

    At one time I came across one expression: "I never lie. But if the truth can hurt me, I just hide it."
    Propaganda without omissions is hardly possible, as well as without lies. But you need to know when to stop and apply the same "lies" in a very metered manner and so that later you will not be caught by the hand. I will not give examples. We are all adults and we ourselves know when they give us noodles about another "unmatched in the world" product, and when they give more or less plausible (not to mention truthful) information
  • serezhasoldatow
    serezhasoldatow 21 November 2020 14: 59
    +1
    Piled up ... everything you can find. The author is a victim of his own propaganda.
  • Old26
    Old26 21 November 2020 15: 01
    +4
    Quote: alekc75
    first time I hear that rockets can be launched only in calm and without rolling !!!!! it's like ???? author ??

    Speech, comrade, is about container performance. That is, in practice, it is necessary to raise the transport and launch container to a vertical position. And to imagine that this boat with its displacement will lift a package of 2-4 TPKs into a vertical position during sea waves is hard to believe. In calm - maybe, but not in excitement
  • Engineer
    Engineer 21 November 2020 16: 49
    -1
    Quote: Phil77
    Quote: Free Wind
    successfully finished.

    Then there were people who were capable and decided to take full responsibility for the country! Now? They? Are there? winked
    1. Phil77
      Phil77 21 November 2020 19: 13
      +1
      [quote [/ quote]
      ????????
  • BAI
    BAI 21 November 2020 17: 23
    +5
    1.
    History teaches us that the intensity of propaganda does not increase real military power.

    For what PMV shows, it reduces very well.
    2. Between the RYAV and Karabakh, the author could recall the 30s - "On foreign territory, with little blood."
  • Undecim
    Undecim 21 November 2020 18: 53
    +6
    Quote: Sergey Averchenkov
    Most of the comments on VO are written by idiots?

    Depends on the section, author and topic of the commented material.
    In the "News" section this figure is close to 100%, in the "History" section, if there is an article about Ancient Rome, there will be practically no such figure, if about Ukraine - 80 percent.
    It's the same with the authors.
  • ccsr
    ccsr 21 November 2020 19: 00
    +2
    Quote: Cyril G ...
    It is now so everywhere.

    It is enough to look at the elections in the USA and make sure how virginal our citizens are, who have the right to observe how the process of will in Russia is going on.
  • Phil77
    Phil77 21 November 2020 19: 01
    +2
    Quote: ccsr
    can you honestly describe?

    I think so. You yourself wrote that you are not delighted with Putin's entourage? What will Putin's change personally give me? Nothing. I am an ordinary law-abiding citizen of Russia. But I want EVERYTHING to comply with the law! Regardless of the distance from Persona. OK?
    1. ccsr
      ccsr 21 November 2020 19: 31
      0
      Quote: Phil77
      Nothing. I'm an ordinary law-abiding citizen of Russia.

      So do the rest too. Why then change the awl for soap? Is the change process itself so limited for you to spend money and time on it?
      Quote: Phil77
      But I want everyone to comply with the law!

      And I want this, but how can I find a country on the globe where they have come close to this?
      1. Phil77
        Phil77 21 November 2020 19: 47
        +1
        Quote: ccsr
        So do the rest too.

        You did not answer the question.
        Quote: ccsr

        And I want this, but how can I find a country on the globe where they have come close to this?

        There are countries where at least rallies are held * for *, or * not *. What does the civil position of CITIZENS mean! The example of the United States with their * moving for the black * do not give. But here Germany and France are like an example for us, no? Didn't they come to my unit with a check? Torgau? Yes, and you know from Schneekopf firsthand?
        1. ccsr
          ccsr 22 November 2020 11: 18
          +1
          Quote: Phil77
          Didn't you come to my unit with a check, didn't you?

          Yes, several times a year, there are photos on the brigade's website.
          Quote: Phil77
          And are you familiar with Schneekopf firsthand?

          I was there several times - the brigade had too many periphery, and I had to go to army regiments all the time.
          But all this has nothing to do with the essence of the issue.
          Quote: Phil77
          .But here Germany and France are like an example for us, no?

          I don't know if you understand or not, but all this mouse fuss does not affect the way these countries have been going for many years. What exactly has changed in their policy towards us over the past thirty years? Nothing...
          And all their internal problems, by and large, should not worry us, they received them without our help.
          Quote: Phil77
          You did not answer the question.

          I will try to explain in simple words - all the hopes of some citizens that Putin's change will improve our life is wrong, if only because those who will replace him will be no better than him, but most likely worse. You must remember how our people scoffed at Brezhnev in jokes, how they laughed at his weakness, and suddenly, many years later, all the dissatisfied "saw the light" and began to remember how well we lived with him. The same will happen with Putin - believe me, whoever shouts most of all that he needs to be changed, later they themselves will remember how stable we live now.
          That is why I do not see the point of replacing Putin - now we do not have a worthy leader who could not only lead the country, but also unite the people. After all, no matter how someone would like to accuse him, Putin does not need to engage in election fraud - he will easily gain more than 50% even if elections are held tomorrow.
          Quote: Phil77
          And the citizens?

          And the citizens just elect him by the majority, and this must at least be reconciled.
      2. Phil77
        Phil77 21 November 2020 19: 51
        +1
        Quote: ccsr
        sewed on soap?

        It's been * awesome * for 20 years! Changes? Except for the sacred "Russia is getting up from its knees *? And the citizens?"
  • iouris
    iouris 21 November 2020 19: 15
    +1
    A state that has no ideology does not need propaganda - it has no ideology.
    1. timokhin-aa
      21 November 2020 19: 26
      +1
      This is not the case, to put it mildly.
  • WapentakeLokki
    WapentakeLokki 21 November 2020 20: 06
    -3
    ..... I am touched by the aplomb of the afftor ............. In the real world, no container weapons exist, the structure of the container deck of launch loads may not withstand in order to launch a rocket from a standing "candle "TPK needs absolute calm and zero pitching, .................. I wonder how, then, with vertical launch installations on EM and Kr (like domestic ones - of which there are not so many left as amerovskih Arlie Bjork (which is very up to ..... a) ....... how poor they are waiting for calm to launch their Aegis system and shoot down flying cruise missiles ..... and if there is a storm at sea write lost ........... no, of course, in the EM TPK it is inside under the deck and this is as much as 5-6 m, but the size does matter ... because of such REVELATIONS, the attitude to the article is not unambiguous. ...... and also, propaganda for recruits should be different from propaganda for managers ........... and if we are in an (information) war, then all means are good ... and if in order to cheer up the fighter, he needs to hang noodles (and not giving bit bitter but TRUTH) then it would be better if he believed (as in 41st the border guards believed that the Red Army would soon approach and died with this FAITH ...) and fought with this Vera and not raised his paws (after all, chances no, come on, `` hands up the hill '') .......... of course this is a DECEPTION, but ........ with what thought is easier to die; everything is pointless and it would be better for me to surrender or .. I'm dying, but ours are already on the way and ........... will repay me .......
    1. timokhin-aa
      22 November 2020 11: 47
      +2
      You have fever? Try to concentrate, you will succeed.
  • Phil77
    Phil77 21 November 2020 20: 21
    0
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    that you are a Muscovite!

    Hello buddy !!! And here is my answer!
  • Vadim_888
    Vadim_888 21 November 2020 20: 51
    0
    ... Thirdly, the customers of propaganda (in the Russian Federation it is the Ministry of Defense) should never, under any circumstances, believe in it themselves and substitute propaganda efforts for real military construction.

    All these reservations arose for a reason - they are the result of the negative experience of the past, mistakes that were previously made and cost very, very expensive.

    Unfortunately, Russian military propaganda is carried out without taking into account both of these clauses, and this has already become chronic. This approach is potentially fraught with big problems for our country. Let us examine the issue related to military propaganda in the Russian Federation in more detail.


    Alexander is golden words, I will subscribe to each
  • Phil77
    Phil77 21 November 2020 21: 40
    +2
    Quote: kalibr
    This is your best comment! For 66 years of my life I have seen enough of them to my heart's content ...

    Brilliant, yes, worth immortalizing! laughing
  • Phil77
    Phil77 21 November 2020 22: 23
    0
    Quote: iouris
    A state that has no ideology does not need propaganda - it has no ideology.

    You're right! Timokhin, no. hi
  • Lirik R
    Lirik R 21 November 2020 22: 24
    0
    By the way about Esposito, I reminded him)
    1. Phil77
      Phil77 21 November 2020 22: 49
      0
      Quote: Lirik R
      Esposito

      But this is a question! But not to the great hockey player / which is true! /. But to the organizers, isn't it ????
      1. Lirik R
        Lirik R 21 November 2020 23: 07
        0
        This is a question of the quality of liberal propaganda, which at one time compared the cost of the Sochi hockey arena with the cost of the Vancouver stadium, where the 1972 Super Series was played, after which Esposito gave the very interview that he was "really disappointed, completely disappointed and cannot believe "(that the Canadian fans boo the Canadian players, or rather, shout" boo "to them) ..
        It's so clear and honest - compare the cost in dollars of the 1960s with the cost in dollars of the 2010s))
  • Phil77
    Phil77 21 November 2020 22: 47
    0
    Quote: Phil77
    my answer

    Damn, I'll add!
    And why immediately, not a Muscovite ????
    Like, so that no questions arise?
    *And who are you!*
  • Iskazi
    Iskazi 21 November 2020 22: 53
    +1
    the author is very provocative ... in a good way. But unfortunately, the Army is very conservative, and if we add the peculiarities of the Russian State, then propaganda and agitation remained at the level of the former USSR, the only thing is that there is no longer an ideological base, therefore it is absolutely ridiculous and ridiculous ... no matter how much the staff propagandists puffed their cheeks, the CPSU lost ideologically, winning the newly-minted "patriots" is generally impossible, but they receive money regularly ...
  • UAZ 452
    UAZ 452 21 November 2020 23: 11
    +3
    With the current MO, parades and other shows (including temple building) are at the forefront. Preparation begins in February, for the same cadets, these three months every year are essentially torn out of the educational process (formally, it continues, but if the whole concern of the leadership of the higher educational institutions is not to lose face in the parade, then the study proceeds according to the residual principle).
    The exercises, in essence, also turned into a show, with near-zero value for the real combat training of troops, because the element of surprise in the show exercises is completely excluded, the role of each in the performance is painted every second.
    The work on re-equipping the Armed Forces with modern competitive combat equipment and weapons has turned into a PR campaign with the "global analogue" refrain repeating in every way.
    The monetary allowance of servicemen for 12 years without a significant increase has again ceased to be competitive in comparison with the civilian labor market, and this inevitably leads to the lumpenization of the Armed Forces, negative selection.
    In short, in the dilemma "to be or to seem," the leadership of the Armed Forces made an unambiguous and quite conscious choice in favor of the second option, preferring the showiness of efficiency.