Military Review

Who betrayed Armenia? Myths and reality

175



The surrender of Karabakh is a disaster for Armenia


It is very difficult to talk to a person whose soul has been stolen. How difficult it is to talk to someone who has been deprived of their faith. And how extremely difficult it is to negotiate with a person who understands that she has been betrayed, but does not realize who. It is even more difficult to conduct polemics with someone who does not see the obvious and believes only that he is told by politicians and jingoistic patriots from the stands at rallies.

Such a person cannot accept that the Artsakh army was practically defeated and that the last lines of defense were already held by vaults and militias. He also does not believe that the Azerbaijani army was stronger, better equipped and prepared for war. The provocations of the Armenian prime minister towards Baku were quickly forgotten. Nor is it recalled what happened in the first days of the war on both sides in relation to the prisoners and the wounded, who were mercilessly finished off contrary to all military laws. This is how a person is arranged: he remembers the evil that is done to him, and forgets the horrors that he himself did.

I had a long conversation with just such an interlocutor. I listened to him and was amazed at how much propaganda and constant lies that penetrate into his head from TV screens, from radio broadcasts, from Internet sites or from stands in city squares can change a person. It was as if I was talking to a person who was completely unfamiliar to me, and not at all to someone whom I had known well for many years until that day. It is these real excerpts from our conversation (with his permission) that I propose today to comprehend the readers. Especially to those who are very affected. Maybe someone else will start thinking: not only in Armenia, but also in Russia.

I perfectly understand that any of my words will definitely be criticized or doubted. Therefore, having decided today to voice the real position of the Yerevan street (and my interlocutor as well), I will give you similar words - the famous Armenian oppositionist, presidential candidate in Armenia in the 2013 elections, political prisoner (2016-2018) Andrias Ghukasyan (interview to journalists "Novaya Gazeta", Yerevan). In Yerevan today, the majority of the citizens who took to the streets are practically in solidarity with him.

Myths from the streets of Yerevan


I'll start with an unpleasant topic for many. The weakness of the Armenian army and the complete unpreparedness of Artsakh for war. Even today, when a military defeat has become a reality, when this obvious fact is already pointed out by the Armenian officers and generals themselves, the people the myth of Armenia's military power still lives.

“There was a tenacious myth about an invincible army. To criticize the army is to pour water on the enemy's mill. And - such thoughts can only be expressed by defeatists. So it was thought. "


Armenia is powerful and could defend itself. People continue to believe that their army is capable of independently defending the state from any aggressor. As well as the fact that the war (which they lost) was to be won.

«We have a powerful and heroic armywhich is many times superior in professionalism to the army of Azerbaijan, therefore both the borders of Armenia and the line of contact in Artsakh are reliably protected. "


Russia sold Smerchi to Azerbaijan. It cannot do without accusations towards Russia and Belarus about the armament of the Azerbaijani army. Azerbaijan showed many videos about the operation of loitering ammunition, but the main role in the destruction of the enemy's manpower was played not by them, but by the Russian Smerchi and Belarusian Polonaises.

Russia sold the wrong thing to Armenia weapon. The objection that Armenia also bought weapons from Russia always follows approximately the same answer:

“The Russians sold us weapons that were expensive but unnecessary for the war. Like Su-30MK planes or Iskander missiles.


But didn't they choose the weapons that were bought by the Armenians? It would seem, who forbade Armenia to buy the same "Smerchi" or "Buratino"?

Killed by Russian-made "Tornadoes".
“Right now, during these 44 days of the war, at least half of the dead soldiers have been killed by Russian Smerch multiple launch rocket systems, and cities have been destroyed by Belarusian Polonaise systems.”


Russia was obliged to defend Artsakh. If someone thinks that among the Armenian political elite there was no understanding that the defense system is poorly organized and is in approximately the same condition as it was in the 90s, then he is deeply mistaken. There was an understanding that the territory of Armenia itself, thanks to the Russian military base, was protected. But the absolutely delusional (considering the fact that Artsakh was never recognized by Armenia and did not become a part of it) idea that Russia would protect this region also spread.

Armenia entrusted Russia to defend itself from Turkey.
“Armenia largely entrusted its security to Russia in terms of protection from Turkey. Armenia provided Russia with a military base on its territory - in Gyumri ... While Turkey and Russia were opponents, not partners in the international arena, this situation allowed Armenia to save money.


Shushi passed. Probably the most painful for the Armenians is the fact of the surrender of Shushi. Almost everyone with whom I talked is sure that the city was not taken, but it was surrendered to please the Azerbaijanis.

“Armenia was losing the war, but Azerbaijan has exhausted its resources. Shushi was surrendered deliberately in order to adjust the situation to the requirements of Azerbaijan. Before that we were told three times that the Armenian army controls Shushi. The last time I heard that was on November 9th. "


Shushi was taken away by politicians.
“But at the same time, people called their relatives who serve in the army, and on November 9 they were still in Shushi. They replied that they were keeping him under control. And then they came out not because the Azerbaijanis knocked them out, but because such a political decision was made. Fights for Shushi would continue to this day. "


Azerbaijan attacked unexpectedly. Another point that should be clarified for the Armenians. This is the question of the surprise attack by Azerbaijan and the unexpectedness of the war itself. This is what Ghukasyan spoke about:

“Pashinyan knew about the start of hostilities before September 27. He himself spoke about it publicly. But he did not announce the training camp for the reservists. Even knowing that war was inevitable, he did not begin additional fortification work. If he knew that Azerbaijan had drones, it was necessary to create additional shelters for equipment and people, long-term firing points, natural barriers, especially in the Dzhebrail direction. Nothing of the kind has been done. "


As can be seen from the words of the prominent Armenian oppositionist, the war was unexpected only for those who fought. For those who defended Artsakh. With the hope that you just need to delay the enemy offensive for some time, which will be needed for the advance of the Armenian army to the front line.

But this is not all that is important to know for those who want to understand the reasons for the defeat. Precisely the defeat of the Armenians in Artsakh.

Pashinyan: a chronology of betrayal


It was possible not only to avoid the war, but also to stop it on conditions acceptable to Yerevan.

We talk all the time about how generals, officers and soldiers acted in this war. We analyze the state of the armies, the training of weapons and equipment. But we are completely unaware of the actions that were taken in the silence of the government offices and by Prime Minister Pashinyan himself. And this is no less exciting activity than the analysis of tactics and strategy of battles.

I well remember the opinions of Russian political scientists and experts about the loss of Russia's influence in this region at the beginning of the war. But I remember just as well the surprise of these people when out of nowhere appeared a peace agreement signed by Azerbaijan, Armenia and Russia. We’ll talk about this from nowhere.

For this, I will quote statements from the Facebook page of the ex-Ambassador of the Republic of Armenia to the Vatican, Portugal and the Order of Malta, candidate historical Mikael Minosyan. Why him? Yes, simply because it was he who was the first of the Armenian diplomats to speak about the surrender of the Armenian territories to Azerbaijan and the signing of an agreement.

Mikael is rather harsh in his judgments and is not diplomatically categorical. He personally blames Nikol Pashinyan for the death of Armenian soldiers and civilians in Artsakh. Moreover, he exposes Pashinyan's crimes and his betrayal, which was committed not at once, but gradually. It was a long treacherous process, the chronicle of which we will now reproduce.

“You are claiming that war was inevitable. No! The war started because you did everything to make the negotiations fail and realized the main dream of the enemy: to make the world understandable about his desire to start a war. You said that the negotiations are pointless, provoking hostilities! "


In my articles I have repeatedly stated that Baku "exceeded all its plans in this war." The success of the operations, it seems to me, even somewhat frightened the Azerbaijani generals, and even President Aliyev himself. Partially, my guess is confirmed by Minosyan. After all, it is quite difficult to explain this statement otherwise:

« On the second day of the war you were offered to resign in favor of the candidate for the post of prime minister who would be from your own team. In return, the mediators ensured that the war would end if negotiations resumed. You refused. "


How difficult it is to explain the second statement of the Armenian diplomat. The situation looks too fantastic. Baku, moving deep into the territory occupied by Armenians, offers negotiations? But, if you look not from a mathematical point of view, but from a military point of view, everything falls into place. It was in the first days of the war that the battles were the most fierce and bloody. It was at this time that the scales were still fluctuating:

« An hour later you were offered the following: if you doubt that after your resignation the war will end, then it will end right now. Then you resign and the parties return to negotiations. You gave up on that too. "


Even after four days of fighting, the opponents, despite the huge losses on both sides, were not sure of their victory. The war was clearly taking on a protracted nature, which threatened to collapse the economy for both countries.

« On the fifth day of the warWhen a number of strategic and tactical strongholds had already fallen, the mediators proposed to surrender one area around these positions and return to the negotiating table. You refused. "


But then the games began, which I would call catch-up. Pashinyan all the time tried to catch up with the proposals that had been made to him before, but they became irrelevant due to the changing military situation in the region. War does not tolerate long deliberation. Strategists can ponder. And tacticians must make decisions quickly, stopping danger or building on the success of combat operations.

« 20 October you agreed to the previous conditions, but it was too late. You were offered to surrender the four districts already out of control, on the borders of which peacekeepers will be deployed, and the Armenians of Artsakh will remain Karvachar and Lachin. You refused. "


Pashinyan's indecision, or perhaps just fear (that, having agreed to surrender 4 districts, he could lose the prime minister's chair) led to the fact that another district was captured. The Azerbaijani army loomed the prospect of fulfilling an old dream - the liberation of Shushi or at least getting free entry there.

« 22 October you agreed to the previous conditions, but it was too late. You were offered to agree to 5 regions in exchange for the deployment of peacekeeping forces along the line, free exit and entry of Azerbaijanis to Shushi. You refused. "


The prospect of the liberation of Shushi captured the minds of the people of the republic. Today everyone understands the significance of this city for both peoples. And now President Aliyev has become a hostage of this idea. His people would not have understood the president if he refused to storm Shushi. But let's get back to what happened during this period in Pashinyan's office.

«23 October you agreed to the previous conditions, but it was too late. An offer was made - 5 regions and Shushi. There was no longer a question of status, and a return to the borders of Artsakh. You refused. "


Even in the face of a clear victory for Azerbaijan, the diplomats continued their work. The war needed to be stopped. The closer Aliyev's army approached the borders of Armenia, the more acute the problem of its continuation became. The President of Azerbaijan was very careful to ensure that nothing could force Russia to enter the war in accordance with the CSTO agreement.

« 7 November you agreed to the old conditions, but it was too late. At that time, two days before the surrender, it was proposed - 5 districts, Shushi, Karvachar and a small part of Lachin. You refused. "


I specifically described in such detail what happened “behind closed doors”. This is my answer to those who periodically cried that the Russian Foreign Ministry was inactive. For the attentive reader, who closely followed the development of events, after the first excerpt it became clear who were these strange mediators who could contact the Prime Minister of Armenia within an hour.

"Eventually, 10 November you, like a thief, signed the shameful document of surrender, thereby betraying the Motherland. You turned down the opportunity to take back the borders of Karabakh. You gave up the idea of ​​not letting Azerbaijanis back to Artsakh. And in the end he agreed. Agreed to hand over all 7 districts, Hadrut and a significant part of the Martuni district. I agreed without any status and agreement on the part of Artsakh, without the opportunity to fix it in the future. "


General Frost betrayed


You should not look for the causes of your troubles in the intrigues of others.

I understand how difficult it is to say to yourself that you are personally to blame for everything, and not someone else. There are very few people who can do this. It is much easier to blame someone else for your failures. Or even something. I remembered about "General Moroz" as the main reason for the defeat of the Nazis near Moscow.

But this must be done. First of all, in order to think about the future. Today everyone understands that the Armenians will not give up their dream of regaining control over Karabakh. It is also understandable that the Azerbaijanis will do everything to keep Karabakh with them. This is the situation not only today, but also in the future.

The question arises about ordinary people. About those who fled from Karabakh, who destroyed their homes. How to deal with them? An example was shown again by Shusha. Even if it is not a lot, just a few hundred, but the Armenians are returning there. It means they believe that the peacekeepers will protect them. And taking into account the economic situation in Armenia, many simply cannot afford to settle down in a new place. There are simply no funds and no hope for state aid.

Hope for Russia


Moreover, I think that it is worth thinking about transferring the territory of Nagorno-Karabakh under the control of Russia. At least for a while. 50-100 years old. Nominally, this will be the territory of Azerbaijan, but in fact, Russia will maintain order there. Only in this case, both peoples will be able to peacefully coexist in this region.
Author:
Photos used:
https://artsakh.news
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  1. smart ass
    smart ass 20 November 2020 05: 21
    30
    Armenia entrusted Russia to protect itself ??? Duck who is the last one? !!!
    1. Finches
      Finches 20 November 2020 05: 57
      31
      This is called Pashinyan's multi-vector policy! And here, for the umpteenth time, Gogol's genius is absolutely appropriate: "What, son, did your Poles help you?"
      1. military_cat
        military_cat 20 November 2020 06: 08
        19
        How difficult it is to talk to someone who has been deprived of their faith.
        (...)
        He also does not believe that the Azerbaijani army was stronger, better equipped and prepared for war.
        Substitution of concepts. This person believesthat the Armenian army was stronger and better prepared, and in the opposite he does not "believe", but denies the objective reality - like any person who irrationally believes in something.
        1. Polite Moose
          Polite Moose 20 November 2020 08: 29
          11
          We all, to some extent, irrationally believe in something. But the head of state to be an irrational believer is an impermissible luxury, primarily for the state. Gorbachev is a prime example of this. I believed in all good things. Pashinyan's gap from reality also went sideways. Now we have what we have. Well, at least Azerbaijan knocked pink glasses off him. And the big guys in the Kremlin and the surrounding area need to think about what to do next. And we will have to proceed from the fact that regardless of what they now write about Armenians
          Quote: Lech from Android.
          Learn Armenians how to survive in the worst situations.

          Quote: Old Tankman
          Their pride does not allow them to learn. After all, they are the smartest and most belligerent.

          Quote: Kot_Kuzya
          An impoverished territory without access to the sea, without natural resources, without a common border with Russia. Let the Armenians and Azerbaijanis themselves figure out among themselves, whose land is this. This is not our war.

          Quote: Kot_Kuzya
          And what is Russia's benefit from the annexation of Karabakh?

          Quote: max702
          These are the features of ALL Armenians, and not just Pashinyan for another God-chosen people

          etc. etc. Armenia is our only natural ally in the region to oppose Turkey (God forbid, will bring the Sultan in the wrong place). There is no other territory for our, disturbing the Turks, presence. I believe that our base in Gyumri was created for this. Therefore, Armenia must be loyal to Russia. And for this you need to accept the following:
          1. Pashinyan is to blame for all the defeats, whose multi-vector policy has led to the current situation, so he must resign.
          2. The American embassy in Armenia, which occupies an entire block, did not in any way influence the outcome of events. Lyakhi did not help the son. They promised with three boxes, but as a result, as usual, they threw it away. Therefore, they should be asked to go out with things under any pretext.
          3. Armenia's only real ally is Russia, so the new prime minister must be very pro-Russian. To this end, it will be very useful to "stimulate" the Armenian diaspora. To influence the opinion of the indigenous people.
          4. 2024 is not far off, and no one knows how the trick will go with peacemaking. Although Armenia does not have enough time, it is quite possible to change the appearance of the army in 3-4 years if desired. If they do not have time, they can lose Stepanokert and something else up to a heap. Only the parity of the opponents' forces can keep them from unleashing the database again.
          5. The information field of Armenia must be Russian.
          In my opinion, something like that.
          1. Cosm22
            Cosm22 20 November 2020 10: 19
            -27 qualifying.
            This is lovely. As Ostap Ibrahimovich would say in a similar situation, it is congenial.
            Lyakhi, so they didn't help your son? I mean, Americans to Armenians, how can you understand?
            What, should have helped? By what agreement? What agreement? What international obligations?
            Is this the question from a representative of a country playing a leading role in the CSTO? The same CSTO that Armenia hoped for? And to whose participants certain agreements and obligations really apply?
            Yes, formally Russia could not provide assistance to Armenia, for there was no war as such on its territory.
            But then why does someone begin to accuse someone else of violating their allied duty, if this someone else is not at all connected with Armenia by any agreements?
            1. Polite Moose
              Polite Moose 20 November 2020 13: 41
              0
              Quote: Cosm22
              What, should have helped? By what agreement? What agreement? What international obligations?

              For example, for replacing the Russian contingent with an American one based in Gyumri, Erdogan and Aliyev could well have been held back. They have more than enough leverage. Not by any agreement, by any treaty, without any international obligations. Just "American aid". As in Iraq and Libya. I think they (s) just slept through the moment.
            2. flicker
              flicker 21 November 2020 01: 39
              0
              Lyakhi, so they didn't help your son? I mean, Americans to Armenians, how can you understand?
              What, should have helped?

              They promised to recognize the independence of Karabakh.
              Pashinyan even turned to Biden with this request.
          2. Kot_Kuzya
            Kot_Kuzya 20 November 2020 10: 39
            27
            Quote: Polite Elk
            3. Armenia's only real ally is Russia, so the new prime minister must be very pro-Russian. To this end, it will be very useful to "stimulate" the Armenian diaspora. To influence the opinion of the indigenous people.

            And what is the benefit for Russia from the fact that Armenia will be "very pro-Russian"? What can Armenia offer Russia? In general, I think we need to move away from the idiotic policy "What can Russia offer to someone." The emphasis should be on "What can Armenia offer Russia?"
            1. Polite Moose
              Polite Moose 20 November 2020 13: 33
              -3
              Quote: Kot_Kuzya
              And what is the benefit for Russia from the fact that Armenia will be "very pro-Russian"?

              1. Territory and freedom of action on it (not like the Black Sea Fleet in Crimea in the recent past). So that the sultan does not relax.
              2. Fruits and vegetables. Also, so that the Sultan does not relax.
              3. The most important thing: a holy place is never empty. Armenia will not be pro-Russian - it will be pro-Russian.
              1. Kot_Kuzya
                Kot_Kuzya 20 November 2020 13: 41
                0
                Quote: Polite Elk
                3. The most important thing: a holy place is never empty. Armenia will not be pro-Russian - it will be pro-Russian.

                Well, Armenia will be pro-English, and what of that? Will Armenia have Kars? Will the access to the sea come immediately?
                Ugh. What pitiful "benefactors". And for their sake, my ancestors lost their lives in the 19th century.
                1. Polite Moose
                  Polite Moose 20 November 2020 13: 52
                  -6
                  Quote: Kot_Kuzya
                  Well, Armenia will be pro-English, and what of that?

                  The first thing that comes to mind is that the Sultan will become even more insolent, and the tone of his conversations with the GDP will change. And in a couple of years, TV-radio-Internet broadcasting will unite the fraternal peoples of Armenia and Azerbaijan, insidiously divided by a common enemy. Guess from three times who this enemy is. I am exaggerating a little, of course, but it is unreasonable to scatter allies, even those from whom there is nothing special to take.
                  1. Kot_Kuzya
                    Kot_Kuzya 20 November 2020 14: 23
                    -4
                    Quote: Polite Elk
                    And in a couple of years, TV-radio-Internet broadcasting will unite the fraternal peoples of Armenia and Azerbaijan, insidiously divided by a common enemy. Guess from three times who this enemy is. I am exaggerating a little, of course, but it is unreasonable to scatter allies, even those from whom there is nothing special to take.

                    Very funny. Why are liberals so stupid? I won't even comment on such nonsense.
                    1. Polite Moose
                      Polite Moose 20 November 2020 14: 40
                      +4
                      Can't you tell irony from a serious tone? Do you need to insert the appropriate emoticon into the text, in the place where you need to smile?
                      And why did you write me to the liberals? Yes, even somehow in a boorish way. And who are liberals in your understanding? Those who do not dispute on any occasion all the actions of the government or who disagree with your brilliant, not stupid opinion?
                      1. Kot_Kuzya
                        Kot_Kuzya 20 November 2020 14: 47
                        -1
                        If you are so smart, then give the facts why it would be profitable for Russia to be friends with Armenia. What benefits can Armenia bring to Russia? Products? Raw materials? Sea ports? Maybe international support? )))))
                      2. Polite Moose
                        Polite Moose 20 November 2020 15: 21
                        +1
                        Please reduce your disrespectful tone. I also know how to be rude, but I don’t think that it is appropriate, especially in relation to a stranger. And about the mental abilities, including yours, I can discuss. But is it necessary?
                        About the question
                        Quote: Kot_Kuzya
                        What benefits can Armenia bring to Russia?

                        without going into details
                        In 2019, trade between Russia and Armenia amounted to USD 2, an increase of 509% (USD 925) compared to 431.
                        Russian exports to Armenia in 2019 amounted to USD 1, an increase of 680% (USD 019) compared to 973.

                        more details here: https://russian-trade.com/reports-and-reviews/2020-02/torgovlya-mezhdu-rossiey-i-armeniey-v-2019-g/
                        I repeat that Armenia is our only ally (so far) in the region in the event of a possible mix with the Turks in the future. You will not deny that Erdogan is slowly spreading his wings. Neither Russia, nor the EU, nor America want to quarrel with him. I fully admit that sooner or later we are with him or him with us in Transcaucasia or somewhere else it will become cramped. And one should not discount the number of Armenians who came to Russia for permanent residence or on business. Maybe they didn't rush with a pitchfork to defend their Batkivshchyna, but they remained Armenians, and who they are will depend on interstate relations. 5th column or 2nd front.
                        I will add that although there is no sea coast in Armenia, there are many wonderful places for tourism. And the prices there are very liberal (do not be distressed by this word), which is not an extra factor in our time of hunger.
                      3. Kot_Kuzya
                        Kot_Kuzya 20 November 2020 15: 34
                        -2
                        Do not confuse export, import and trade. According to your data, Russia delivered TWO times more to Armenia than it received from it: 1,7 billion versus 0.8 billion from Armenia. So who feeds whom? I don't see Armenian goods in the shops at all. I see Belarusian, Ukrainian, Kazakh, Chinese, Polish, German, but I don't see Armenian. And where are they, benefactors, then? How could we not have died of hunger and cold without them?
                      4. Polite Moose
                        Polite Moose 20 November 2020 15: 37
                        -3
                        Quote: Kot_Kuzya
                        So who feeds whom?

                        Do you know such a concept as "sales market"? And that 1,7 billion is not money?
                      5. Kot_Kuzya
                        Kot_Kuzya 20 November 2020 15: 40
                        -2
                        Quote: Polite Elk

                        Do you know such a concept as "sales market"?

                        Which is more profitable: 3 million poor Armenians or 9 million relatively wealthy Azeris? Are you sure a "capitalist"?
                      6. Polite Moose
                        Polite Moose 20 November 2020 15: 59
                        +1
                        A strange need to choose one of the two. Why sacrifice relationships with some for the sake of others? Moreover, no one puts the question of choice "either they or we" before us. Neither Armenia, nor Azerbaijan, nor Turkey. Why can't you benefit from a relationship with both sides? Well, as a "capitalist", you must remember the saying: "there is even a tuft of wool from a black sheep."
                        PS If the need arises to deploy a serious grouping in the Transcaucasus on a permanent basis, for example, air defense (yes, preferably cheaper or free of charge), then in Which Armenia it can be done. Pro-Russian or pro-Soviet?
                      7. Kot_Kuzya
                        Kot_Kuzya 20 November 2020 16: 06
                        -2
                        Quote: Polite Elk
                        Why sacrifice relationships with some for the sake of others?

                        Do not lie. Here you are jumping for Armenians. And I would prefer to choose Azeris than beggar Armenians, plus Pashinyan, who is also galloping for a magpie. As they say: nothing personal just business. When you are overgrown with wool, you are welcome :)))
                      8. Polite Moose
                        Polite Moose 20 November 2020 20: 07
                        +2
                        Quote: Kot_Kuzya
                        Do not lie.

                        Lie? You have strange conclusions from what you have read. Quite strange. I will try to understand the logic if you argue why it is necessary to send Armenians through the forest and kiss on the belly of your so beloved Azerbaijanis, whom you respectfully call "Azeris". I emphasize: none of them is more suitable for selfish friendship, but why "OR" those, "OR" those? Why not "I"? Still about the "lies" have any questions?
                        About "horse racing for Armenians". If you think at least a little about the meaning of what I have written (just read from above, and not from the next branch), you may understand that I am "jumping" exclusively for the interests of Russia and its future good-neighborly relations with Armenia without Pashinyan, with Armenia, which should become more pro-Russian than it was before, which will be a very convenient platform for us for a possible confrontation with Turkey. There will be no confrontation - I'll just be happy. Let it just be friendly to us Armenia - a tourist cluster and a market for our goods.
                        Quote: Kot_Kuzya
                        As the saying goes: nothing personal just business.

                        When (or if) Turkey assimilates Azerbaijan, and even finally draws Georgia into its orbit, then amazing metamorphoses will take place with your "business". As S. Shnurov wrote: "they will close the border for us, your tourism (business) will go (to the expense, in general)." The region will be far from under our influence. Look at the map. Who there can not lie under the Turks? Three tries. Don't touch Iran, India and China.
                        Quote: Kot_Kuzya
                        When you are overgrown with wool, you are welcome :)))

                        God forbid me to get into the "wool". You are more careful with such calls. I really hope that this was said out of thoughtlessness, and not with understanding.
                      9. Kot_Kuzya
                        Kot_Kuzya 20 November 2020 20: 19
                        -4
                        Quote: Polite Elk
                        exclusively for the interests of Russia and its future good-neighborly relations with Armenia without Pashinyan, with Armenia, which should become more pro-Russian,

                        Don't you get it yet? Armenia is zero without a stick, it is emptiness and nothing. That "pro-Russian" Armenia, that "anti-Russian" Armenia - for Russia it has absolutely no meaning. A poor country without access to the sea, without any economy and industry, with a scanty population, and even without a common border with Russia, is an absolute zero for Russia's interests.
                        Quote: Polite Elk
                        When (or if) Turkey assimilates Azerbaijan, and even finally draws Georgia into its orbit

                        It will be fun to watch how the Turks are "proud" Georgians, who through every first supposedly descendants of princes, will show them their true place, namely, a place near the settlement of natural need.
                      10. Polite Moose
                        Polite Moose 20 November 2020 20: 54
                        +2
                        Quote: Kot_Kuzya
                        Armenia is zero without a stick, it is emptiness and nothing. That "pro-Russian" Armenia, that "anti-Russian" Armenia - for Russia it has absolutely no meaning. A impoverished landlocked country with no economy or industry

                        I dare to assure you that you are mistaken. Otherwise, what the hell are our peacekeepers doing there? For the love of your neighbor? For world peace? Well, you open your eyes. There are more colors than white and black.
                        Armenia's economy is poor. But somehow they lived all the post-EBS time. And nothing, not dead. They didn’t ask to join us. I was there in 2016. even before Pashinyan. The most pleasant impressions. Most of all, a schoolboy of 6-8 years old in a school uniform and with a knapsack on his shoulders struck, who came up to us and politely asked how, in our opinion, he spoke Russian. There, in schools from the 1st grade, Russian was a compulsory subject. And they were amazed by the Armenian housewives in the supermarket (very colorful and oversized women of 40-50 years old), who simply forced us (it was useless to argue) to go with purchases at the checkout without a queue, because we are guests. That was their attitude towards us. And then the multi-vector Pashinyan came and "turned the hut". For which he paid. Therefore, I am for the fact that it should be carried out as soon as possible to Shnurov's song "Road" and leave Armenia in our orbit. We will not be there - in a while there will be p-s. Or the Turks. Armenia itself will not take it out. But with appropriate body movements from our side, it may well be a counterweight in our scales. And believe me, there will be no pro-Russian Armenia, Erdogan and Aliyev will speak differently. I’m trying to express these thoughts here. And you must admit that one thing does not interfere with the other, having a military base in Armenia and simultaneously trading with Azerbaijan and Turkey.
                  2. Buka001
                    Buka001 21 November 2020 07: 18
                    +3
                    There will be no more wool on them! Azerbaijan guarantees this. And one cannot believe in the tales of Armenian "if only". There is an indisputable fact that Armenia exists only thanks to Russia !!! Everything else is secondary.
  • Oprichnik
    Oprichnik 22 November 2020 01: 48
    +1
    Quite right! Russia should pursue ONLY its own goals and help only those whose actions help in their implementation. Armenia is a poor country with a stable Russophobic and pro-Western mood of the elite. Therefore, let them figure it out on their own, although given the state of their economy and demography, they will NEVER now be able to resist Azerbaijan and it would be best for them to forget about Artsakh as soon as possible. You cannot build happiness on the stolen. The need to locate a Russian base in Armenia in the absence of a common border with Russia is also questionable. In case of war, the base will be something like a blocked Brest fortress - for a short time it will tie up some forces and die. And among the "protected" Armenians there can be shooters in the back, as in the Tribaltic republics in 1941.
  • Ilya-spb
    Ilya-spb 20 November 2020 08: 21
    17
    Nobody betrayed the Armenians. They are good themselves!

    And woe to the vanquished! (c) the Roman consul

    Moral: you should be friends with Russia, not use Russia.
    1. Freeman
      Freeman 20 November 2020 08: 44
      +6
      Quote: Ilya-spb
      And woe to the vanquished! (c) the Roman consul


      stop Amendment.

      Vae victis ("woe to the vanquished") - it said Brenn (lat.Brennus) - the leader of the Celtic tribe of the Senones (Bhrenn - successor, heir), the leader of the victorious campaign against Rome in 387 BC. e. (according to another date, in 390 BC)
    2. Cosm22
      Cosm22 20 November 2020 10: 06
      -12 qualifying.
      All these discussions on the pages of VO are an attempt to blur the topic. And nothing more.
      Someone betrayed ... did not betray ...
      But what difference does it make to Armenians who will write how many articles like this one? Or do they care about the number of comments under the article? Or the semantic direction of these comments?
      Yes, they don't care about all these rassosolivaniya on the Internet.
      The only important thing for Armenians is that they themselves, for the most part, will think about Russia. From now on and for a long time to come. This is the main thing for them.
      And these thoughts, alas, are far from in favor of the Russian Federation. It is a fact.
      Everything else for Armenians is just verbiage and translation of arrows.
      Hence, the attitude towards Russia will be appropriate.
      And I'm afraid we will feel it very soon.
      1. Kot_Kuzya
        Kot_Kuzya 20 November 2020 10: 42
        13
        Quote: Cosm22
        For the Armenians, the only important thing is that they themselves, for the most part, will think about Russia. From now on and for a long time to come. This is the main thing for them.
        And these thoughts, alas, are far from in favor of the Russian Federation. It is a fact.
        Everything else for Armenians is just verbiage and translation of arrows.
        Hence, the attitude towards Russia will be appropriate.
        And I'm afraid we will feel it very soon.

        And how can Armenians influence the opinion of Russia and Russians in particular? Increase the prices for the layout of tiles? So brothers from Central Asia and the Russians themselves will happily take their place. I personally don't care what Armenia will think about Russia. "The sheriff's Indians don't care about the problem."
        1. Cosm22
          Cosm22 20 November 2020 11: 15
          -2
          Do not forget that the Russian peacekeeping contingent is now serving as the sheriff there.
          And situations there may be unforeseen.
          And I personally do not give a damn if the lives and health of Russian servicemen are threatened.
          1. qQQQ
            qQQQ 20 November 2020 14: 52
            10
            Quote: Cosm22
            And I personally do not give a damn if the lives and health of Russian servicemen are threatened.

            Yes, the Armenians should blow off dust particles from them, I wonder how long Armenia will last if Russia leaves there?
          2. Polite Moose
            Polite Moose 20 November 2020 15: 34
            0
            Quote: Cosm22
            And situations there may be unforeseen.
            And I personally do not give a damn if the lives and health of Russian servicemen are threatened.

            Yes, here many give a damn about it. But that there is nothing to take from Armenia, it is a disaster. Therefore, "a violinist is not needed."
        2. Buka001
          Buka001 21 November 2020 07: 27
          +2
          Russia needs to cleanse its media space from "pseudo-Russian" analetiges of Armenian origin, and replace it with adequate well-read patriots of their homeland !!! And then it's already sickening to watch all this pro-Armenian broadcasting on the Russian TV space. It is stupid to drive in the neck to Armenia.
      2. ccsr
        ccsr 20 November 2020 13: 17
        +6
        Quote: Cosm22
        But what difference does it make to Armenians who will write how many articles like this one?

        By and large, it makes no difference to us what happened there in Karabakh - as they say in such cases, "as it came, it left." Since the Armenians did not want to defend Karabakh as it should be and are preparing for a war with Azerbaijan, then what is it for us who lost or won there?
        Quote: Cosm22
        The only important thing for Armenians is that they themselves, for the most part, will think about Russia.

        And I don't care what the Armenians will think about Russia - I see no reason to creep in front of them.
        Quote: Cosm22
        And these thoughts, alas, are far from in favor of the Russian Federation. It is a fact.

        Well, let those who think that the thoughts of the Armenians determine the foreign policy of Russia are worried - I think that even without the Armenian (Azerbaijani) thoughts we will understand what we need to do in such a situation. And let them pave roads or sell tomatoes in Russia - no one bothers them to do this and profit from us.
        Quote: Cosm22
        And I'm afraid we will feel it very soon.

        We will not feel anything - the Armenians live too well at the expense of Russia to take ultimatum positions.
        With all my internationalism, I think that Armenians and Azerbaijanis are one field of berries for us, and therefore it is disastrous for us to be on someone's side.
        1. qQQQ
          qQQQ 20 November 2020 14: 53
          +3
          Quote: ccsr
          With all my internationalism, I think that Armenians and Azerbaijanis are one field of berries for us, and therefore it is disastrous for us to be on someone's side.

          Support.
      3. kyznets
        kyznets 20 November 2020 13: 44
        +8
        I would like to return to the question again: what can the Armenians offer Russia, besides their constant claims? Their opinion about Russia is never interesting. It has never been good.
      4. qQQQ
        qQQQ 20 November 2020 14: 50
        +2
        Quote: Cosm22
        And these thoughts, alas, are far from in favor of the Russian Federation

        And before that, they had thoughts exclusively in favor of Russia? As far as I can see, all these thoughts boiled down to only one thing: to have more, while not giving anything away. By and large, finally, Russia, before their "thoughts" and in whose favor they are, has become hot all the same.
      5. Oprichnik
        Oprichnik 22 November 2020 01: 57
        +2
        Dear Cosm22 - why do we Russians (RUSSIANS) SHOULD HAVE THE OPINION OF ARMENIANS? They themselves are to blame for what happened, and if they are not able to comprehend the reasons for the defeat, then the flag is in their hands ... If they violate the Law and Order in Russia, then they need to be sent back to their homeland, which they love dearly from a long distance. And then there are too many ... - nannies live in Russia.
  • Vladimir Mashkov
    Vladimir Mashkov 20 November 2020 13: 23
    +3
    Quote: Finches
    This is called Pashinyan's multi-vector policy! And here, for the umpteenth time, Gogol's genius is absolutely appropriate: "What, son, did your Poles help you?"

    Great convincing article by Alexander! I suppose he deliberately did not draw conclusions, leaving us to do so. Yes you are right: natural the defeat of Artsakh / Karabakh and Armenia is the result of Pashinyan's stupid cunning short-sighted policy, a betrayal. Who is he himself: a stupid traitor or a vile traitor-Soros - the second question. The main thing - traitor... And with traitors, the conversation is short: removal, arrest, trial. But the questions: are the people of Armenia capable of this now and who will replace them? Are open.
  • Begunok
    Begunok 20 November 2020 18: 29
    0
    Quote: Finches
    This is called Pashinyan's multi-vector policy! And here, for the umpteenth time, Gogol's genius is absolutely appropriate: "What, son, did your Poles help you?"

    The most interesting thing Vlad, clings to the power with his teeth and makes stripping .. Someone helps him very much to stay in power .. This is the main problem !!!!
    He's a traitor and there is a lot of blood on him .. Eh Armenia, you don't know what you are doing!
  • Civil
    Civil 20 November 2020 08: 12
    0
    They filmed Pashinyan - they let NATO into Karabakh ... like a joke) but caveman Nazism on both sides is still to blame.
  • siberalt
    siberalt 21 November 2020 10: 30
    +2
    Those who have been to Shushi at least once do not understand how this fortress could have been surrendered suddenly! Only secretly the Trojan horse was dragged there with a couple of battalions of well-trained saboteurs. From Shushi all of Stepanokert is visible at a glance. Almost direct fire from artillery. On the contrary, it doesn't. The rocky mountain is almost 1400 m high.
  • aszzz888
    aszzz888 20 November 2020 05: 22
    0
    Moreover, I think that it is worth thinking about transferring the territory of Nagorno-Karabakh under the control of Russia. At least for a while. 50-100 years old.
    Do you think this is possible without consequences for the Russian Federation? The West and zaluzhniki will instantly overwhelm with sanctions for a couple of centuries.
    1. domokl
      20 November 2020 07: 25
      +7
      Quote: aszzz888
      The West and zaluzhniki will instantly flood with sanctions for a couple of centuries.

      Huh ... Can you tell me the time when we were a country, by this I exclude the time of the EBN, when no sanctions would be imposed on us?
      1. novel66
        novel66 20 November 2020 08: 05
        +1
        Ha! but the Soviet Union was better prepared for this! and we now?
        1. mat-vey
          mat-vey 20 November 2020 08: 15
          +2
          Quote: novel xnumx
          but the Soviet Union was better prepared for this!

          The USSR grew and grew stronger under constant sanctions and provocations.
      2. Paul Siebert
        Paul Siebert 20 November 2020 14: 11
        -2
        Quote: domokl
        Quote: aszzz888
        The West and zaluzhniki will instantly flood with sanctions for a couple of centuries.

        Huh ... Can you tell me the time when we were a country, by this I exclude the time of the EBN, when no sanctions would be imposed on us?

        Yes, Alexander, there have been and will always be sanctions.
        Therefore, you need to somehow start to justify them.
        The Caucasus is one of the most lively directions in our environment.
        It's time to get your hands on it again. No exceptions.
        What will not return to us in the near future is at risk of losing forever.
        It will become Turkish, English, American, Guadalupe, whatever, just not Russian ...
        Stop lisping and playing diplomacy with supposedly existing states.
        In reality, there are two forces in the Caucasus. Russian and Turkish. And Iran slyly squints nearby.
        It's time to remind the circumcised that the Caucasus is ours!
        Was, is and will be.
        Do not agree?
        Try to twitch ... angry
    2. Oleg123219307
      Oleg123219307 20 November 2020 08: 32
      15
      Quote: aszzz888
      Do you think this is possible without consequences for the Russian Federation? The West and zaluzhniki will instantly overwhelm with sanctions for a couple of centuries.

      I'm rather wondering - why do we need this? We are already defending Armenia for free, so that I understand why. Now our guys are risking themselves covering the Armenians in Karabakh. What for? In Syria, everything was clear. Everything was clear in Crimea. Even in Donbass, Abkhazia and Ossetia, something was clear - there are many Russians and the border. And then what? Friends? Those who declare that "we have entrusted Russia to defend ourselves"? Screaming about the Russian invaders? Who voted at one time with 98 percent for leaving the Union? A strategic position? Yes, it seems and not really. The radar station in Gabala was strategic, but it got by. And in Armenia there are no strategic objects at all, 102 bases there are from the Turks, but Turkey, with all its will, is not our enemy. So unpleasant neighbor. The forces are incommensurable. Can we get what economic benefits? Well, apparently the Armenians will pay. Another thousand 150 "refugees" will be thrust into us so that it is not boring. Well, okay, our good bosses decided to help with peacekeepers - approx. (Although, although I am not a supporter of this cause, it would be better if they helped Donbass, it is more necessary) But to talk about Russia taking power there for 100 years ... In my opinion, this is either stupid stupidity or incitement to actions that are harmful to the Motherland.
    3. Oprichnik
      Oprichnik 22 November 2020 01: 59
      +1
      And why does Russia need this desert mountainous area with too "hot" people who have claims to all neighbors?
  • Lech from Android.
    Lech from Android. 20 November 2020 05: 27
    14
    Weak political leadership, a weak army, a weak economy of Armenia, together, allowed Azerbaijan to win ... The Armenians clearly overestimated their capabilities and underestimated the enemy, as a famous person in our business said, the main thing is this realism. Again, I will cite Israel as an opposite example, who managed to mobilize resources the Jewish people and defeat their opponents on the borders of their state. Learn Armenians how to survive in the worst situations.
    1. Old tanker
      Old tanker 20 November 2020 06: 43
      11
      Their pride does not allow them to learn. After all, they are the smartest and most belligerent.
      1. novel66
        novel66 20 November 2020 08: 06
        +6
        and what the zvizdyuly grabbed off is anyone's fault, not them
    2. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 20 November 2020 09: 15
      +1
      ...... a weak army ......
      and what would it be if Pashinyan, as he arrived, cut the military budget by 95%, the money was supposed to be spent on repairing and re-equipping kitchens in army units.
  • Kot_Kuzya
    Kot_Kuzya 20 November 2020 05: 49
    23
    ... Moreover, I think that it is worth thinking about transferring the territory of Nagorno-Karabakh under Russian control. At least for a while. 50-100 years old

    Does Russia need it? An impoverished territory without access to the sea, without natural resources, without a common border with Russia. Let the Armenians and Azerbaijanis themselves figure out among themselves, whose land is this. This is not our war. You need to pursue your own interests - the interests of Russia and its people, and not defend the interests of Armenia or the interests of Azerbaijan. Moreover, as experience has shown, the Armenians are an extremely ungrateful people; it is not for nothing that all their neighbors hate them: Turks, Azerbaijanis, even Georgians.
    1. parusnik
      parusnik 20 November 2020 06: 36
      0
      Let the Armenians and Azerbaijanis themselves figure out among themselves, whose land is this.
      ... On June 12, 1990, they also said, we won't feed anyone, let them figure it out themselves. This is not ours. And? Everything is not ours now. Not our Baltics, not our almost Belarus, not our Ukraine, not our Moldavia ... I will not continue ... Nah, our Crimea.
      1. Lech from Android.
        Lech from Android. 20 November 2020 06: 50
        10
        And how much of our resources were invested in these republics, what is the real return for us from them? In addition to spitting in the back, we have little. Russia needs to learn to protect its investments, both financial and human ... Otherwise, we will waste the resources of our future generation. All neighbors of Russia dream of living at her expense and few seek to give her what they owe her.
        1. mat-vey
          mat-vey 20 November 2020 07: 17
          11
          Quote: Lech from Android.
          All neighbors of Russia dream of living at her expense and few seek to give her what they owe her.

          The Armenians have a centuries-old tradition.
      2. Kot_Kuzya
        Kot_Kuzya 20 November 2020 07: 08
        +9
        And what is Russia's benefit from the annexation of Karabakh? What can Karabakh offer Russia? Products? Three times haha. Raw materials? There is nothing there. Maybe at least ice-free seaports? Also no. What is the point of Russia annexing Karabakh and feeding a million hicks there? Here's something, but Armenia and Karabakh should not be annexed by Russia in any case. The Baltic states should be annexed for the sake of ice-free seaports, Ukraine, with the exception of Galicia, and Belarus because Russians live there, Kazakhstan for the sake of natural resources and arable land, Azerbaijan for oil, Turkmenistan for gas, Georgia for warm resorts. And in Armenia and Karabakh there is absolutely nothing. But the Armenians' ambition is above the roof.
        1. Daniil Konovalenko
          Daniil Konovalenko 20 November 2020 08: 54
          0
          What can Karabakh offer Russia?
          ... Even if in the middle of Stepanakert, oil fountains start to clog, the oil will not be yours or mine or Armenian, but will belong to those whom I indicated in my comment below. And the war is going on for the interests of those who own it, so you are right this is not our war.
          1. Kot_Kuzya
            Kot_Kuzya 20 November 2020 09: 13
            0
            Oil fountains will never come in Stepanakert, and therefore this territory is not needed by anyone. A poor, barren territory with no access to ice-free seas and without resources is of no interest to anyone. It is not without reason that even the United States and Britain, which have a plug in every barrel, are silent about this war. But regarding the Crimea, the United States and Britain scattered to the skies, since Crimea is the key to the Black Sea region and to the south of Russia, and Balaklava Bay is the most convenient harbor for the fleet, both military and commercial.
            1. Daniil Konovalenko
              Daniil Konovalenko 20 November 2020 09: 27
              +3
              Oil fountains will never flow in Stepanakert
              .But in the region, deposits of various types of metals have been found. These are mainly zinc, lead, copper, gold, pyrite and iron. The deposits are located near the villages of Mehmana, Drmbon, Gyulatag, Kusapat, Vank, Nor, Lisagor, Nngi, Tsori Maghavuz, in the interfluve of Tartar and Khachen, also on the slope of Mount Mrav. I repeat, these are not yours, not mine, and not Armenian resources. For them some are at war, so that others receive super-profits.
              1. Kot_Kuzya
                Kot_Kuzya 20 November 2020 09: 39
                -2
                Quote: Daniil Konovalenko
                But in the region, deposits of various types of metals have been found. These are mainly zinc, lead, copper, gold, pyrite and iron. The deposits are located near the villages of Mehmana, Drmbon, Gyulatag, Kusapat, Vank, Nor, Lisagor, Nngi, Tsori Maghavuz, in the interfluve of Tartar and Khachen, also on the slope of Mount Mrav

                Sure sure. Therefore, probably, in the USSR, gold and other non-ferrous metals were mined in Zazhopinsk like Kolyma, Oymyakonya, Aldan, Norilsk, where even polar bears would have frozen their butts, but not in the warm Transcaucasia.
                1. Daniil Konovalenko
                  Daniil Konovalenko 20 November 2020 09: 45
                  0
                  I tell you that there is a war for resources to which neither you nor I and everyone else have any rights. You don’t pay attention to this, write about Kolyma and Oymyakon. And mercilessly put cons laughing I don’t know who you work, well, probably not the president of an oil company, laughing and thoughts, as for example from some international oil and gas magnate. laughing
                  1. Kot_Kuzya
                    Kot_Kuzya 20 November 2020 10: 15
                    0
                    Quote: Daniil Konovalenko
                    I tell you that there is a war for resources to which neither you nor I and everyone else have any rights. You don’t pay attention to this, write about Kolyma and Oymyakon. And mercilessly put downsides I don’t know who you work, well, probably not the president of an oil company, but thoughts, as, for example, from some international oil and gas tycoon.

                    You know, there is such a science called geopolitics. Shows that politics is inseparable from geography. No matter how Georgia, Ukraine and the Baltic states strive for the City on the Hill in the form of shining Washington and London, geography is ready to be close to Russia, and there is no getting away from it. And the same geopolitics shows that Karabakh and Armenia are useless territories, since they do not have resources and access to warm seas, unlike, for example, Crimea and the Baltic states. It's just that the Anglo-Saxons managed to capture the Baltic states, but not the Crimea. Crimea is ours laughing
                    1. Daniil Konovalenko
                      Daniil Konovalenko 20 November 2020 10: 17
                      -3
                      Yes, our Crimea, our .. laughing Calm down, reduce your imperialist ardor ... laughing Yes, don't forget to put a minus. laughing
                      1. Kot_Kuzya
                        Kot_Kuzya 20 November 2020 10: 34
                        -4
                        Russia is actually the largest country in Europe, stretching from Kaliningrad and St. Petersburg in the west, to Vladivostok and Cape Dezhnev in the east, and Russians are the largest people in Europe. It is not for nothing that the European mongrels are so afraid of Russia and oppose it in a united front, because if they do not realize, then they feel at the instinct level the power of Russia in comparison with their capabilities. It is such a good old European tradition to unite against a powerful enemy. So they once united against the Ottoman Empire in the 15-17 centuries, against Spain in the 16-17 centuries, against France in the 17-18 centuries, against Sweden in the 17-18 centuries, against Prussia, and then Germany in the 19-20th centuries. The fact that yapping and uniting against Russia is an indicator of its strength. If Russia were weak and insignificant, no one would unite against it.
                      2. Daniil Konovalenko
                        Daniil Konovalenko 20 November 2020 10: 47
                        -7
                        Did you add a minus to my comment? laughing Free. laughing Share your obscurantism with the author Samsonov ... laughing Don't have a Sabbath on Bald Mountain. laughing
                      3. Kot_Kuzya
                        Kot_Kuzya 20 November 2020 11: 00
                        -3
                        I put the minuses, because I do not agree with your opinion. It's democratic. Or are you against democracy?
                      4. Daniil Konovalenko
                        Daniil Konovalenko 20 November 2020 11: 07
                        -4
                        Calm down you already laughing not calm my! laughing What you wrote to me in your comments has absolutely nothing to do with what is written there. laughing And although you know, write, if it is democratic, write ... laughing Perhaps surpass Samsonov in your fabrications ... laughing Yes, the next minus, do not forget to put on and write something else. laughing and found free ears .. laughing hi I'm waiting ... laughing
              2. karima
                karima 20 November 2020 17: 30
                -2
                Quote: Kot_Kuzya
                And the same geopolitics shows that Karabakh and Armenia are useless territories, since they do not have resources and access to warm seas.
                Switzerland? Otozh. And if desired, Aliyev will make a lyalechka out of Karabakh. Let's see if he has such a desire.
                1. Kot_Kuzya
                  Kot_Kuzya 20 November 2020 17: 56
                  -2
                  Quote: karima
                  seas
                  Switzerland? Otozh. And if desired, Aliyev will make a lyalechka out of Karabakh.

                  Yeah. How the second France was made from Ukraine wassat ... They have been jumping for 30 years, but they cannot even reach the level of Russia wassat
                  That is, in 1991 they were at the level of Poland, and now they jumped below Moldova :))))
        2. Kot_Kuzya
          Kot_Kuzya 20 November 2020 10: 01
          0
          It is not without reason that the West from all the former Soviet republics annexed only the Baltic to the EU and NATO, since ice-free seaports are located there, which are very convenient for trade and communication of Russia with such important trading partners of Russia as Germany, Denmark, Sweden and Holland, and for trade with they do not need icebreakers through the Baltic ports. Also, through the Baltic ports, you can trade with Norway, Britain and France by the shortest route. Whereas the ports in the Leningrad Region are covered with ice in winter, and in January-March, ships need icebreaker escort, which will multiply the cost of sea transportation. Therefore, the ports of the Baltic States are strategically important in relations between Russia and the West. Therefore, by the way, Ukraine and Georgia will never join the EU and NATO, since the West simply does not need them. The course of all Western policy is determined by the Anglo-Saxons - the United States and Britain, for their mentality, sea communications are most important, since their power has grown on sea trade, and therefore if the former Soviet republic does not have convenient seaports, then it is not interesting for them. That is why Ukraine, after the annexation of Crimea to Russia, ceased to be of interest to the Anglo-Saxons, they started this whole whirlwind with the Maidan for the sake of Crimea, but broke off, from which they still commit atrocities, as they planned to become the masters of Crimea.
          1. Daniil Konovalenko
            Daniil Konovalenko 20 November 2020 10: 06
            -4
            In the garden of elderberry, in Kiev, uncle. laughing This is in relation to my comment. laughing Put a minus. laughing hi
  • ccsr
    ccsr 20 November 2020 13: 03
    +5
    Quote: Kot_Kuzya
    What can Karabakh offer Russia?

    Nothing but hemorrhoids for many years. And the utter ambitions of Armenian citizens ...
  • max702
    max702 20 November 2020 07: 15
    +7
    Yes Crimea is ours, and everything that you have listed is not OURS! These territories need 50 years of quarantine exposure without the help of Russia, and then perhaps we will deign to accept them back if we deserve it ..
  • ArhipenkoAndrey
    ArhipenkoAndrey 20 November 2020 07: 18
    +6
    At the expense of not ours - this is to the liberals and the Democrats, by the way, who are now in power, who destroyed the USSR, and at the expense of feeding, Russia has always been in a more deplorable state, this can be seen from the filling of stores and it is no secret mostly from Russia.
  • Daniil Konovalenko
    Daniil Konovalenko 20 November 2020 08: 42
    +3
    Well, you swung ... Ukraine, the Baltic states ... laughing In Russia, everything is not ours. It belongs to the Potanins, Vekselbergs, Rotenbergs, Feduns, Gref, etc. However, in Armenia, the war is not ours, as the author of the commentary writes, this is the war of those whom I indicated above ..
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 20 November 2020 09: 03
    +7
    Of all the former Soviet republics, not one has been able to equip itself as a real independent state in 30 years of existence. Recall what the USSR achieved in the first 30 years of its development.
    1. Daniil Konovalenko
      Daniil Konovalenko 20 November 2020 09: 31
      0
      Lord, on the territory of the CIS there are small imperialist wars, "people are dying for metal", for foreign metal, metal that will go into the pockets of capitalists. And so many experiences. smile
      1. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 20 November 2020 09: 37
        +4
        One way or another, these are the experiences of the destruction of the USSR, which made it possible
    2. karima
      karima 20 November 2020 17: 32
      -2
      Quote: Reptiloid
      not a single one has been able for 30 years of existence to equip itself as a real independent state.
      What about Russia?
      1. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 20 November 2020 18: 05
        0
        If the arrow indicates who I was answering. In general, in my comments I often compared the results for 30 years between the USSR and the Russian Federation. What is 30 years after the Socialist Revolution, what is 30 years after the Second World War
  • sergo1914
    sergo1914 20 November 2020 05: 54
    15
    The Russians sold us weapons that were expensive but unnecessary for the war.


    This is TOP. It was not we who bought the wrong weapon, it was the Russians who sold us the wrong weapon. Oh well. The insidious Russians have once again raped the unfortunate Armenia. Although in such a situation, seeing inadequate buyers, it was necessary to sell aircraft-carrying cruisers. Wholesale.
    What about other sellers? Did they sell what was cheap and what was needed? So what?
    1. faiver
      faiver 20 November 2020 07: 36
      +3
      It was not we who bought the wrong weapon, it was the Russians who sold us the wrong weapon.
      - good
    2. novel66
      novel66 20 November 2020 08: 08
      -1
      there was a statement that using the Su-30 competently, it was possible to stop the threat of Azeri drones. So what?
  • parusnik
    parusnik 20 November 2020 06: 11
    +6
    Moreover, I think that it is worth thinking about transferring the territory of Nagorno-Karabakh under the control of Russia. At least for a while. 50-100 years old. Nominally, this will be the territory of Azerbaijan, but in fact, Russia will maintain order there. Only in this case, both peoples will be able to peacefully coexist in this region.

    It is a good idea, but not for that "partners" Turks come to Azerbaijan so that Russia would rule Karabakh ..
    1. NDR-791
      NDR-791 20 November 2020 06: 43
      +6
      It is a good idea, but not for that "partners" Turks come to Azerbaijan so that Russia would rule Karabakh ..
      The idea is really good only if the treaty with Iran of 26.02.1921/XNUMX/XNUMX is re-enacted. Turkey needs (including) the north-west of Iran, along with oil and extended access to the sea. In Azerbaijan they have already dug themselves so tightly. And we do not need a separate Karabakh without access to the sea. But we do not need Turkey in the north-west of Iran either. Only this is not the forty-first year, and Stalin does not make decisions with us ...
  • tatarin1972
    tatarin1972 20 November 2020 06: 19
    +2
    Personal ambitions run ahead of common sense, the inability to soberly assess the situation, and these are not all of Pashinyan's features.
    1. max702
      max702 20 November 2020 07: 19
      +6
      Quote: tatarin1972
      Personal ambitions run ahead of common sense, the inability to soberly assess the situation, and these are not all of Pashinyan's features.

      These are the features of ALL Armenians, and not just Pashinyan for another God-chosen people.
      1. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 20 November 2020 09: 30
        +2
        There is Gasparyan's story, where he says that the Armenians called each other, told in social networks, how they already see Russian paratroopers, how they see Russian planes bombing .... And this was similar even in the media ?????? Somehow you can't even imagine. Making rumors like this did the trick
        1. max702
          max702 20 November 2020 22: 14
          +1
          Quote: Reptiloid
          There is Gasparyan's story, where he says that the Armenians called each other, told in social networks, how they already see Russian paratroopers, how they see Russian planes bombing .... And this was similar even in the media ?????? Somehow you can't even imagine. Making rumors like this did the trick

          Well, the Armenians even surpassed the Great Ukrs in breaking through the bottom .. Who is next?
          1. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 20 November 2020 22: 34
            +1
            ..... surpassed .....
            Not surprising! Armenia is territorially smaller, its population is 20 times smaller, and the embassy, ​​on the contrary, is the largest. Probably, the number of ambassadors and workers of NGOs is commensurate with the population lol
            1. max702
              max702 20 November 2020 22: 38
              +1
              Quote: Reptiloid
              ..... surpassed .....
              Not surprising! Armenia is territorially smaller, its population is 20 times smaller, and the embassy, ​​on the contrary, is the largest. Probably, the number of ambassadors and workers of NGOs is commensurate with the population lol

              "1984" turns out to be a documentary chronicle ...
          2. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 20 November 2020 22: 46
            +2
            On the other hand, there were reports of protests and such words --- "The Armenians, as they found out, about the reduction of spending on the army ...." it's easy to defeat a bigger and richer Azerbaijan ----- it's not just that laughing
            reported ---- smashed the Soros Foundation in the morning. How it ended is interesting.
            1. max702
              max702 20 November 2020 23: 00
              +1
              Yes than what .. They stumbled and dispersed .. White bwana especially did not allow Maidan to go .. I recommend "Svidomo Peremog Warehouse" where these processes are considered inside and out ..
              1. Reptiloid
                Reptiloid 20 November 2020 23: 06
                +1
                I'll take a look tomorrow, I just came. Compare with Belarusian protests. What different people the USSR united. Children also participated there. Parents let go, then.
  • Kruglov
    Kruglov 20 November 2020 06: 24
    0
    Quote: aszzz888
    Moreover, I think that it is worth thinking about transferring the territory of Nagorno-Karabakh under the control of Russia. At least for a while. 50-100 years old.
    Do you think this is possible without consequences for the Russian Federation? The West and zaluzhniki will instantly overwhelm with sanctions for a couple of centuries.

    Not this way. If the Azerbaijanis invite Russia and the Armenians will also be in favor. Then Russia can think about it. And maybe he will agree. Everything is exclusively for the good of the world and at the request of the parties. What then can be the sanctions?
  • Konnick
    Konnick 20 November 2020 06: 24
    +8
    Quote: military_cat
    How difficult it is to talk to someone who has been deprived of their faith.
    (...)
    He also does not believe that the Azerbaijani army was stronger, better equipped and prepared for war.
    Substitution of concepts. This person believesthat the Armenian army was stronger and better prepared, and in the opposite he does not "believe", but denies the objective reality - like any person who irrationally believes in something.


    But Armenians believe in the superiority of their nation over others.
    1. Ros 56
      Ros 56 20 November 2020 06: 45
      +3
      Hitler also believed, and where is he?
      1. max702
        max702 20 November 2020 07: 18
        +8
        Quote: Ros 56
        Hitler also believed, and where is he?

        And the Armenians will be there ..
        1. novel66
          novel66 20 November 2020 08: 09
          +3
          already, as it were, there ...
          1. max702
            max702 20 November 2020 22: 24
            +1
            Quote: novel xnumx
            already, as it were, there ...

            Her, while Russia, represented by the bratskonarodnik VVP, did not even begin to put in place the petrified animals, she led the tinsel so lightly, and how many screams rang out .. The limitrophes have everything ahead ..
            rs: There is a dream for every vomit of such "allies" to arrange carpet bombing, or you can check the combat readiness of TNW too ..
    2. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 20 November 2020 23: 12
      +1
      .... Armenians believe in the superiority of their nation ....
      wonderful position. And not whine --- I'm ashamed, like Akhedzhakova ... They quickly began to understand Pashinyan's lies and shout about it
  • Ros 56
    Ros 56 20 November 2020 06: 45
    +1
    The Armenians themselves sold them, so let them sort it out among themselves, and then you can look for the next guilty ones. Something like this.
  • echo
    echo 20 November 2020 07: 02
    +8
    Who betrayed Armenia? all those who were at the forefront of the color revolution and became whores in the service of the United States and the West now they can see the real culprit when they look in the mirror every morning there are really many useless idiots and a full generation of spoiled lazy millennials and their utopian illusion of a free West are guilty along with politicians who sold their country to foreign powers and are now crying about bad Russian because it brings peace all those protesters have never held weapons or fought a day in their lives but they are the biggest mouths in the West this is just the same lame generation that makes our societies a real shame for people who want to live a normal life and not an illusion promoted by fascist imperialist Western and American institutions
  • Vale-90
    Vale-90 20 November 2020 07: 06
    -4
    What did you want from Azerbaijan? After Georgia, Ukraine and Syria -EVERYTHING IS ALLOWED... Or did they think in Moscow that they were such cool niggas? And all the other bunnies will comply with the signed agreements?
    1. Avior
      Avior 20 November 2020 08: 17
      0
      And what kind of agreement was Azerbaijan supposed to observe?
      1. Vale-90
        Vale-90 20 November 2020 08: 26
        -10 qualifying.
        Offhand. He's a member of the UN, for example. Belovezhskaya agreements "... based on the historical community of peoples, the ties between them, taking into account bilateral treaties, the desire for a democratic rule of law, the intention to develop their relations on the basis of mutual recognition and respect for state sovereignty, .... "
        I wrote in my post-Everyone understood that you can violate everything if the power is behind you and the world community does nothing for violations. But for every power, there is another power. As with the same Su-24 Peshkov. Shot down and that's all ... And they forgot.
        1. Avior
          Avior 20 November 2020 08: 38
          +7
          The fact is that Azerbaijan did not violate anything from the documents you quoted.
          Everything is in full accordance with them. The recognition of the borders of Azerbaijan was in the Belovezhskaya agreements, the right to self-defense was in the UN Charter.
          1. Vale-90
            Vale-90 20 November 2020 08: 46
            -10 qualifying.
            Then we fight on ... am
        2. Kot_Kuzya
          Kot_Kuzya 20 November 2020 08: 41
          +2
          Quote: Vale-90
          Offhand. He's a member of the UN, for example. Belovezhskie agreements "

          The UN recognizes Karabakh as the territory of Azerbaijan. And in the USSR, too, Karabakh was part of the AzSSR.
          1. Vale-90
            Vale-90 20 November 2020 08: 53
            -12 qualifying.
            In my opinion, the opposite. Under the USSR, Karabakh was part of Armenia.
            1. Kot_Kuzya
              Kot_Kuzya 20 November 2020 09: 09
              -1
              Quote: Vale-90
              In my opinion, the opposite. Under the USSR, Karabakh was part of Armenia.

              You should at least learn the basics of history, then write here. Otherwise, you are writing here nonsense of truly cosmic proportions
              Nagorno-Karabakh Autonomous Region (NKAO) (azerb. Daгlyg Garabak Mukhtar Vilaјәti, Armenian
              1. Vale-90
                Vale-90 20 November 2020 09: 16
                0
                Thank you, I will know (it was just too lazy to look for myself) lol
  • echo
    echo 20 November 2020 08: 20
    -4
    People and politicians should keep an eye on these 3 countries in Europe, its Great Britain, the United States and Turkish dogs, which are Trojan horses of NATO and these two other hyenas, it's time to talk about Turkey and its future. side in Asia Minor where they belong because they become a real plague and a threat to the peaceful peoples of the Caucasus, North Africa and the Middle East
  • Avior
    Avior 20 November 2020 08: 26
    +1
    It is difficult to say how many Armenians think the way it is written in the article.
    But obviously that is a lot.
    Against this background, it is ridiculous to read the accusations that Pashinyan did not agree to give something to Azerbaijan at the beginning of the war, while nothing would have been clear yet.
    Yes, it would have been torn to pieces in Armenia at that moment for surrendering 4 regions, judging by the fact that even now, when the overwhelming military superiority of Azerbaijan has become obvious to everyone, there are a lot of Armenians who are sure that they have almost won.
    Anyway, one gets the impression that the unrest in Armenia is being artificially heated in order to remove Pashinyan.
    Armenia would have happened with any premiere, this is an obvious fact. Any war starts with the economy.
    Then there will be finance for defense and the ability to purchase the necessary weapons, and not take on credit, which is given.
  • Cottager452
    Cottager452 20 November 2020 08: 27
    -9
    Apart from the territories of Azerbaijan
    acquired the status of an aggressor country, a violator of international agreements, and it is this circumstance, like the sword of Domokles, will hang over its future and present.
    1. Vale-90
      Vale-90 20 November 2020 08: 37
      -8
      Absolutely correct. Finns, Chinese, Japanese, Georgians, Ukrainians think the same way ...
      This is a mine for the future of Russia, "there will still be blood" (c).
    2. noxange
      noxange 20 November 2020 12: 41
      +5
      you first read the definition of "aggressor country". well, it would be nice to indicate which international agreements have been violated.
  • Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 20 November 2020 08: 46
    -7
    Do you know .... You can, of course, talk a lot about the mistakes of Armenian politicians, even "moronism", akin to betrayal of the true interests of the Armenian people ... about the bad "hap-hating" that infected the minds of Armenians .... But I cannot forget the words of an elderly Armenian militia, who said with tears in his eyes to Pegov ....: "Do you see a cross there? The Azeris will come and take it off .... But this is not only my cross! This is your cross too!" ..... " "Armenians, think about these words too!
    1. Kot_Kuzya
      Kot_Kuzya 20 November 2020 10: 09
      +2
      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      But I cannot forget the words of an elderly Armenian militia, who said with tears in his eyes to Pegov ....: "Do you see a cross there? The Azeris will come and take it off .... But this is not only my cross! This is your cross too!" ... While "scolding" the Armenians, think about these words too!

      Is it okay that in Russia the second largest nationality is the Tatars, who, SUDDENLY, are Muslims? Plus another 2 million Bashkirs, who are also Muslims. Tatars, Bashkirs and Russians have been living together peacefully for almost 5 centuries. Never in Russian history has there been such a thing that Tatars and Bashkirs cut themselves with Russians because of religious differences. Azerbaijanis are all the more Turks, like Tatars and Bashkirs. The Azeris do not have Russophobia, just as there is no Russophobia among the Tatars and the Bashkirs, in contrast to the Armenians, who in 2018 rode with Russophobic slogans for Pashinyan the Soros. The Azerbaijani Aliyev is closer and dearer to me than the cunning multi-vector Pashinyan, who has sold himself to the West and is pursuing a Russophobic policy.
      1. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 20 November 2020 19: 24
        -1
        Eh, Kuzya, Kuzya! What a pity that the owners haven't poked you into the tray for a long time! You're getting impudent! Well, how many times have I said this: Don't confuse a fork with a bottle! You ... and others like you didn’t understand what I said! You are "masters" of confusing "God's gift with scrambled eggs" ... and the Christian cross with Aliyev! You are disgusting to me and I am not going to "talk" with you ... it's useless ...!
        1. Kot_Kuzya
          Kot_Kuzya 20 November 2020 20: 06
          -3
          Of course, I understand that for you "vira, mova and army" is a sect, but how do you explain the kissing of your maydanut authorities with the Crimean Tatars? Why is Aliyev worse than Dzhemilev, with whom your maidan authorities kiss on the gums? Or is it "different"?
    2. karima
      karima 20 November 2020 17: 41
      0
      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      But I cannot forget the words of an elderly Armenian militia, who said with tears in his eyes to Pegov ....: "Do you see a cross there? The Azeris will come and take it off .... But this is not only my cross! This is your cross too!" ... While "scolding" the Armenians, think about these words too!
      What are you talking about? even with tears in your eyes? Here's an extract from the Wiki
      “Nevertheless, ethnic Christians are subjected to various repressions by the Iranian authorities. crimes than Muslims. "

      By the way, the best friends of Armenia, and how many tears fell for these Christians?
      1. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 20 November 2020 19: 12
        0
        Quote: karima
        How many tears fell for these Christians?

        What kind of indistinct absurdity are you talking about? Impossible to understand! request Tell me ... and the Russian language. How does it "treat" you?
  • Daniil Konovalenko
    Daniil Konovalenko 20 November 2020 08: 58
    -4
    Moreover, I think that it is worth thinking about transferring the territory of Nagorno-Karabakh under Russian control.
    Only so that the Karabakh Armenians are not finally cut out. And then what, in 50-100 years, will we leave this issue to future generations?
    1. Kot_Kuzya
      Kot_Kuzya 20 November 2020 14: 39
      0
      Quote: Daniil Konovalenko
      management of Russia.
      Only so that the Karabakh Armenians are not finally cut out. And then what, in 50-100 years

      And why should Russians be interested in this? Russians should be interested in Russian interests, not Armenian interests. The interests of the Armenians should be of interest to the Armenians, but not the Russians. For example, I absolutely do not care about the interests of Armenians. But the interests of Russians are extremely interesting to me, since I myself am Russian, and my Motherland is Russia.
  • Konnick
    Konnick 20 November 2020 09: 05
    +8
    Quote: Nikolaevich I
    Do you know .... You can, of course, talk a lot about the mistakes of Armenian politicians, even "moronism", akin to betrayal of the true interests of the Armenian people ... about the bad "hap-hating" that infected the minds of Armenians .... But I cannot forget the words of an elderly Armenian militia, who said with tears in his eyes to Pegov ....: "Do you see a cross there? The Azeris will come and take it off .... But this is not only my cross! This is your cross too!" ..... " "Armenians, think about these words too!


    Yes, the cross will not be removed, there is no need to make rabid Muslims out of Azerbaijanis, they have a multi-confessional state, especially a secular one, and to reproach us that we have betrayed Christians ... Russians have suffered from Christian crusaders, ranging from knight-dogs and ending with Hitler.
  • Ratmir_Ryazan
    Ratmir_Ryazan 20 November 2020 09: 16
    +5
    Insanely bitter for the defenders of Karabakh, they are real wars, they held positions with a significant superiority of the enemy both technically and in number, pulled their own under fire and themselves fell under fire.

    Pashinyan deliberately betrayed them and surrendered Kaoabah to Azerbaijan, because he is essentially a protege of the West and his task was that by giving up Karabakh and thus resolving the territorial dispute, drag Armenia into NATO and the EU and sever economic and military ties with Russia.

    The West does not need Armenia, they need Russia, they are doing everything to limit the sales market for our goods and for military products. It is banal, because the less we export finished products, and not raw materials, the slower we develop, the less we sell weapons, the less money our military-industrial complex receives for their development and the more expensive a unit of weapons is for ourselves and the less money in the budget.

    In general, Pashinyan betrayed not only Armenia, but also Russia, which for centuries protected Armenia from Turkey.
  • Valery Potapov
    Valery Potapov 20 November 2020 09: 23
    +2
    The most interesting thing is that Russia defended Karabakh from the cleanup ...
  • iouris
    iouris 20 November 2020 10: 00
    +1
    The issue of betrayal here should be discussed only in the context of the betrayal of the Armenian and Azerbaijani "elites" who staged a war in the Transcaucasus to create problems for Putin. To this end, both of them ("elites") turned into agents of our "geopolitical opponents" who convinced our "brotherly partners" and "allies" that the Russian Federation would soon lose its subjectivity completely. Betrayal in the form of going over to the side of the enemy. This is the starting point.
  • serezhasoldatow
    serezhasoldatow 20 November 2020 10: 30
    +3
    Pashinyan is a paid agent of Western intelligence services. He fulfilled their plans "worthily". Ours also need to learn lessons on keeping Russia in their heads. Have Lukashenka and Ze tried the script on themselves?
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 20 November 2020 22: 56
      +1
      Quote: serezhasoldatow
      Pashinyan is a paid agent of Western intelligence services. He fulfilled their plans "worthily". Ours also need to learn lessons on keeping Russia in their heads. Have Lukashenka and Ze tried the script on themselves?

      The impression that he did not fulfill the customers' plans and will not be able to. It seems to me that the plans were about a greater defeat
  • WayKheThuo
    WayKheThuo 20 November 2020 11: 47
    +6
    Moreover, I think that it is worth thinking about transferring the territory of Nagorno-Karabakh under Russian control. At least for a while. 50-100 years old. Nominally, this will be the territory of Azerbaijan, but in fact, Russia will maintain order there.

    SNOW-HEALTHY!
    Russia needs to think about its people, you finally understand своих citizens, because no one except her will think about them. Nobody needs us with our problems. Moreover, when real problems began in the USSR, all "fraternal" peoples scattered like cockroaches in their corners, and now they either ask for help from there, or make claims.
    My country, if it really wants to become a home for its multinational population, must take care of providing its citizens with all conditions for self-realization, while guaranteeing the basic necessities of life.
    In other words, we categorically need to radically change the situation in which a person, in order to be able to do what he loves, must plow half his life at a hated job.
    It is necessary to create such conditions that creative work in my country would be honorable, respected and would allow people to live the way they like and where they like.
    It is necessary to build and maintain such a system of selection and placement of personnel, pushing to the top people who work not for the sake of money or thirst for power, but because public administration is their vocation and favorite job. Yes, and no need to laugh - public service is really work, difficult and responsible, and it requires, like any other area of ​​human activity, certain human qualities that not everyone has.
    It is necessary to change life in my country so that citizens would no longer see government officials as thieves and idlers, and in deputies as upstarts and parasites.
    There is still a lot of things and a lot of places, but you don't need to help everyone and everywhere, and even at your own expense. From the word "absolutely".
    I think so.
    1. Doctor
      Doctor 20 November 2020 12: 26
      +3
      Russia needs to think about its people, you understand, finally, about its citizens, because no one except her will think about them.

      Way, this is an unattainable dream. Look how many copies break at least on this forum for the sake of the status of Karabakh unknown to anyone.

      Shattered Syria, now we have billions of dollars to rebuild.
      This billion would go to the endangered Tambov region, but who needs it ... No.
      1. Petro_tut
        Petro_tut 20 November 2020 14: 01
        +1
        Shattered Syria, now we have billions of dollars to rebuild.

        If you are not aware, then in Syria there are resources that are extremely interesting for Russia, which are not in Russia due to the cold climate:
        1.cotton
        2.citrus crops
        3.Tomatics that can replace Turkish
        4.Other anti-technical products
        With the right approach, Syria can become a fairly large sales market for metal products, cars of the same AvtoVAZ,
        Locomotives, oil products, banks, grain, dairy products, the Syrian coast will be able to replace the Turkish ones in terms of recreation for the Russians, and it will also be possible to build a cosmodrome there ...
        1. Lex_is
          Lex_is 20 November 2020 14: 14
          +1
          Please tell us how much has Russia imported from Syria cotton, citrus fruits and tomatoes since 2015?
      2. WayKheThuo
        WayKheThuo 20 November 2020 14: 42
        +4
        Way, this is an unattainable dream.

        I really, really want to hope that it is not.
        It's just that a lot of people in my country, and at this forum as well, do not want and cannot admit that we have lagged behind the West in socio-political development for many, many years, and now, slowly and with great difficulty, we are reducing this distance.
        See for yourself:
        1. Even 150 years ago, my country was backward, agrarian, inhabited almost en masse by an illiterate population. At the time when the first metro was launched in London, slavery was abolished in our country, and the questions that the nobles posed to their king in the Charter of Liberties, we began to timidly raise only under Elizabeth, probably.
        2. Somewhere in the middle of the last century, that is, about 60 years ago, my country was a beacon in the world of capitalist darkness. From the territory of my country to the first in the world, spacecraft with automatic and semi-automatic devices, and then with astronauts, rushed upward. In my country, not only the most powerful types of weapons of mass destruction have been developed, but an amazing system of social lifts and the realization of the capabilities of almost every person, and in general a lot of useful and necessary things. It would seem - live according to your conscience, rejoice in opportunities, develop. But no - the project was not a success, because public consciousness is not iron, it cannot be overwhelmed in a year, and in the end that positive charge of October was slowly and surely worn out, filthy and emasculated by cunning, narrow-minded and shameless burghers who, sitting at their feeders , did everything to maintain the current state of affairs, slowly and surely transforming the top of the CPSU into a crowd of opportunists and shameful troechniks, because in people like is drawn to like, yes.
        3. What do we have today? Well, about the level of scientific and technical development, we are happily slipping into the "crunch of French rolls". And what about social and political thought? Surprisingly, from my point of view, on the contrary - right now in my country a new search for meanings and goals begins, the formulation of new tasks and asking questions of the powers that be: "And who are you?", "Why are you living on our money so bad do you work? "," And what are your incomes, and why are they like that? "," Where do your children study, where do your families live and why is this so? "," Why do we have such a complicated Constitution? "," And not an attempt whether it is to bury your selfish interests in this? "," But shouldn't we change the Constitution to squeeze this lawlessness of bored cats? "... thousands of them. That is, our people begin to grow above themselves in terms of social and political development, which in fact cannot but rejoice, and it is on this vector that I personally pin certain hopes.

        But there is one problem - the questions listed above and thousands of "how, what and why?" can and should be asked only within the framework of a clearly formulated ideology, which simply and clearly answers the question: "Why ask these questions at all, for the sake of what ultimate goal?"
        Otherwise, we will get a carnival of idiocy, which is observed in almost all the former republics of the Union, from Ukraine to Kyrgyzstan, because movement without an idea is a breeding ground for political adventurers and potential war criminals, for whom another "hot spot" means only one thing - launching a bloody carousel with forced sale of tickets for it for some, and stellar profit for others.
        So it goes.
        1. Selevc
          Selevc 21 November 2020 08: 54
          0
          It's just that very many in my country, and at this forum as well, do not want and cannot admit that we essentially lagged behind the West in socio-political development
          All that you have described so extensively is a systemic crisis in Russia that has been lasting for about a century !!! It started back in the era of Khrushchev and Brezhnev and has blossomed now !!! And it's not so easy to change !!!
          we will get a carnival of idiocy, which is observed in almost all the former republics of the Union, starting from Ukraine,
          This is not a carnival of idiocy - your enemies are coming at you !!! But yesterday they walked quietly and secretly and today they are already walking openly !!! Wars are now being waged more cunningly than 70 years ago and no Ribbentrops will come to you to declare war !!!
  • xomaNN
    xomaNN 20 November 2020 11: 58
    +2
    Armenians (..or Armenian radio drinks ) in your style laughing
    We are the best army, everyone is afraid of us! Why bolster defense and air defense? Az..ry will not attack, because we are so strong!
    And in general Russia SHOULD (!) Defend Karabakh! Because the Armenians decided so crying
  • bk0010
    bk0010 20 November 2020 12: 15
    +2
    Moreover, I think that it is worth thinking about transferring the territory of Nagorno-Karabakh under Russian control. At least for a while. 50-100 years old. Nominally, this will be the territory of Azerbaijan, but in fact, Russia will maintain order there.
    Yeah, Chechnya was not enough for us, there are no hot spots in Russia yet, let's take Karabakh under control.
    Only in this case, both peoples will be able to peacefully coexist in this region.
    They do not want to coexist peacefully, they do not like each other (others are also not very much, but especially each other). Even if we manage to prevent a mess in Karabakh, what will prevent them from grappling somewhere nearby? Not to start a war, so some kind of raid or terrorist attacks. No, guys they are adults, let them figure it out.
  • ccsr
    ccsr 20 November 2020 12: 47
    0
    In general, the article is interesting and informative, unless, of course, the Armenian ambassador slightly flashed it in his personal interests.
    But what killed me the most was simply the inadequate conclusion of the author of the article:
    Moreover, I think it is worth considering on the transfer of the territory of Nagorno-Karabakh under the control of Russia. At least for a while. 50-100 years old. Nominally, this will be the territory of Azerbaijan, but in fact, Russia will maintain order there. Only in this case, both peoples will be able to peacefully coexist in this region.

    I just want to ask the author - are you generally out of your mind if you propose to send our people to the next hot spot? Maybe it's better to let them wash themselves in blood, and then peace will come faster for both sides, when they calculate their losses and calm down.
    What we forgot there - the author apparently will not be able to formulate ...
    1. Doctor
      Doctor 20 November 2020 15: 02
      +2
      I just want to ask the author - are you generally out of your mind if you propose to send our people to the next hot spot? Maybe it's better to let them wash themselves in blood, and then peace will come faster for both sides, when they calculate their losses and calm down.
      What we forgot there - the author apparently will not be able to formulate ...

      The trouble is that decisions (and wishes) on the entry of troops are made by those who themselves will not be in the trenches.
      If their kids were riding in the head armored personnel carrier, they would have weighed everything thoroughly again.
  • Cottager452
    Cottager452 20 November 2020 13: 15
    -2
    It's not time to introduce peacekeepers to the topics of Nagorno-Karabaz on the website, otherwise the Ottomanophiles are playing pranks like in their harem.
  • BAI
    BAI 20 November 2020 13: 47
    +4
    Moreover, I think that it is worth thinking about transferring the territory of Nagorno-Karabakh under the control of Russia. At least for a while. 50-100 years old.

    And what is it to keep him? At whose expense? Where does the money (restoration) come from for someone else's (and even anti-Russian) territory?
    1. Petro_tut
      Petro_tut 20 November 2020 13: 51
      -2
      anti-Russian

      Just pro-Russian territory
  • Petro_tut
    Petro_tut 20 November 2020 13: 50
    +1
    Greed killed the Armenians
  • bar
    bar 20 November 2020 14: 13
    -1
    The success of the operations, it seems to me, even somewhat frightened the Azerbaijani generals, and even President Aliyev himself.

    More than ten thousand losses in a month with a small one for Azerbaijan with a population smaller than Moscow can hardly be called an overwhelming success.
  • Growlers
    Growlers 20 November 2020 14: 19
    0
    They, the Armenians, will burn the flag of Russia, but Russia "must" groom and cherish Armenia and not sell weapons to the enemies of Armenia .... This is not cured.
  • Comrade Kim
    Comrade Kim 20 November 2020 14: 25
    +2
    Quote: Daniil Konovalenko
    imperialist

    If so.
    Instead of concentration camps (like the British), or total genocide of Indians (like the Americans), or bloody massacres, as the Jews did to Palestine, Russia brought enlightenment and progress to the natives. But small nations seem to be naturally ungrateful.
    ... Each former republic (except for the Ukrainian SSR and the BSSR) after the collapse of the USSR strove to get ahead of the other in the number of Russians killed and expelled abroad. Traitor Gorbachev and
    always drunk Yeltsin, deliberately did not notice this.
    And you mention the empire.
    All republics (possibly except for the Ukrainian SSR) lived at the expense of Russia, and repaid us with the genocide of the Russian population.
    Empires don't do that.
    There are many examples of how the British, French, punished the aborigines for the death of only one representative of the European state.
    And our slobber who were at the helm, after the death of a Russian special forces soldier in Putilkovo in 2019, did not even demand to hand over the murderer who had fled to Armenia.
    Here, in Russia, anyone from a visitor can break the basic law.
    Racial discrimination please!
    Remember how recently Azerb. squeezed Armenians out of trading places in fruit and vegetable markets.
    Where is the reaction of the authorities?
    That's right!
    They put their tongues between the rolls and sniff.
    The respected Armenians and Azerbaijan should not be touched, they are profitable.
    Loot won.
    The laws will wait.
    The Russian people will endure.
  • Aeneas
    Aeneas 20 November 2020 14: 54
    -2
    The history of a century ago repeats itself in the form of a farce ... A hundred years ago, the same thing happened, only at a slower pace. Russia and Turkey, and Azerbaijan, which joined them, played the Transcaucasian card at the expense of Armenia. why is this happening? My opinion is that the Armenians are more talented, passionate, many personal examples can be cited, a historical nation than the peoples around them. Paradoxically, it is from these superior personal characteristics that the problems of Armenians arise. They ignore the interests of their neighbors. In fact, who are they, where were they when Noah landed on the Armenian coast in biblical times? Historically, Armenians cannot form a coalition with Georgians. Although the Georgians are still those warriors, but still at least friendly neutrality. The Armenians in the Abkhaz conflict opposed the Georgians. About the Turks in general ... Who are these nomadic aliens, and even Muslims? In general, these are Armenian lands! Here the neighbors beat the Armenians in a crowd, deservedly and undeservedly. Approximately as the Bulgarians were beaten by neighbors in the 20th century, although "one-on-one" the same Bulgarians were stronger. Russia, its establishment, used this Caucasian mess rationally. Messages for a community of faith, etc. - this is for propaganda. For over a thousand years, Muslims have allied with Christians against their Muslim enemies and vice versa, there are many examples of this.
  • Yellow bubble
    Yellow bubble 20 November 2020 17: 23
    0
    Nobody should defend Armenia, because it did not fight. Karabakh is not Armenia.
  • tank64rus
    tank64rus 20 November 2020 18: 20
    +1
    They themselves betrayed themselves. Why, when they won in 1994, they did not look to blame.
  • Scorpio05
    Scorpio05 20 November 2020 19: 35
    0
    Quote: bar
    The success of the operations, it seems to me, even somewhat frightened the Azerbaijani generals, and even President Aliyev himself.

    More than ten thousand losses in a month with a small one for Azerbaijan with a population smaller than Moscow can hardly be called an overwhelming success.

    Did you personally consider the losses of Azerbaijan?
  • Scorpio05
    Scorpio05 20 November 2020 19: 38
    +1
    Quote: Aeneas
    The history of a century ago repeats itself in the form of a farce ... A hundred years ago, the same thing happened, only at a slower pace. Russia and Turkey, and Azerbaijan, which joined them, played the Transcaucasian card at the expense of Armenia. why is this happening? My opinion is that the Armenians are more talented, passionate, many personal examples can be cited, a historical nation than the peoples around them. Paradoxically, it is from these superior personal characteristics that the problems of Armenians arise. They ignore the interests of their neighbors. In fact, who are they, where were they when Noah landed on the Armenian coast in biblical times? Historically, Armenians cannot form a coalition with Georgians. Although the Georgians are still those warriors, but still at least friendly neutrality. The Armenians in the Abkhaz conflict opposed the Georgians. About the Turks in general ... Who are these nomadic aliens, and even Muslims? In general, these are Armenian lands! Here the neighbors beat the Armenians in a crowd, deservedly and undeservedly. Approximately as the Bulgarians were beaten by neighbors in the 20th century, although "one-on-one" the same Bulgarians were stronger. Russia, its establishment, used this Caucasian mess rationally. Messages for a community of faith, etc. - this is for propaganda. For over a thousand years, Muslims have allied with Christians against their Muslim enemies and vice versa, there are many examples of this.

    Why didn't the Armenians show their "talents" in their homeland? Devastation and depressive zone.
  • boriz
    boriz 20 November 2020 20: 13
    +2
    "Moreover, I think that it is worth thinking about transferring the territory of Nagorno-Karabakh under Russian control."
    And at whose expense the banquet? Will Russian pensioners pay again as the richest?
    I also understood the support of the LDNR and Crimea. But the Armenians? Azerbaijanis? They got it here, so now our boys have to lay their lives there with the money of our pensioners?
    Will it not be too much?
    1. Rudkovsky
      Rudkovsky 20 November 2020 21: 11
      0
      I would rather ask who will transfer something to Russia and why? Azerbaijan won, they will rule there, Russia has nothing to do with it, what would it give Karabakh under control? For beautiful eyes?
  • high
    high 21 November 2020 00: 17
    0
    Turkey won, for the first time in 2 centuries, Turkish troops ended up in the Caucasus, Armenia, Russia and, oddly enough, Azerbaijan lost.
    Azerbaijan does not need Russian and Turkish troops on its borders ...
  • The comment was deleted.
  • brat07
    brat07 21 November 2020 04: 09
    0
    Quote: Kot_Kuzya
    Do not confuse export, import and trade. According to your data, Russia delivered TWO times more to Armenia than it received from it: 1,7 billion versus 0.8 billion from Armenia. So who feeds whom?
    I absolutely do not see Armenian goods in stores.
    I see Belarusian, Ukrainian, Kazakh, Chinese, Polish, German, but I don't see Armenian. And where are they, benefactors, then? How could we not have died of hunger and cold without them?

    But I can see. Armenian cognacs. True, a good brandy is an infection, dear wink
  • high
    high 21 November 2020 05: 16
    0
    Few noticed that the Prime Minister of Armenia understood everything after 2 weeks of fighting, he recalled the Armenian ambassador to Israel, accusing Israel of supplying modern weapons to Azerbaijan.
    Nobody betrayed Armenia, Russia could not help, it is just that the weapons of the 21st century defeated the weapons of the 20th century.
    Indeed, Israel delivered to Azerbaijan:
    - HAROP drones - for the destruction of highly protected targets, loitering SkyStriker ammunition, huge Hermes drones
    - long-range ground-to-ground ballistic missiles LORA,
    - anti-tank missiles "Spike"
    - multilevel air defense system: anti-aircraft missile system "Barak - 8" with radar complex "Green Pine", SAM "SPYDER-SR", "Iron Dome"
    - portable remote demining systems POMINS-2, capable of creating 50 m long and 1,5 m wide passages in minefields in half a minute.
    UAVs are produced in Azerbaijan under an Israeli license, by the way, the technology for the production of Bayraktar drones. Turkey acquired from Israel.
    https://riafan.ru/1284415-izrail-predostavlyaet-turcii-vysokie-tekhnologii-chtoby-oslabit-sar
  • Selevc
    Selevc 21 November 2020 09: 00
    0
    Russia now no longer needs to think about Karabakh - Russia now needs to think about what to do with Transnistria !!! The situation there for Russia is worse than in Karabakh !!! The situation there is like a blueprint for Karabakh. And the point is that the entire region of the Pridnestrovian republic is threatened by two scenarios - bad and even worse - 1) Complete blockade together with Russian peacekeepers 2) War with Moldova in complete blockade !!!
  • Elturisto
    Elturisto 21 November 2020 12: 26
    -2
    The Armenians are right when they say, why the hell are they Su-30 and Iskanders? They should have bought https://topwar.ru/131477-universalnoe-ognevoe-sooruzhenie-uos-gorchak.html.
    Install 100-200 such firing points, introduce remote control from camouflaged command posts, and that's it.
    But the businessmen from Ros.VPK had to warm their hands on sales, they did not care about the interests of their country.
  • Takashi
    Takashi 21 November 2020 13: 55
    0
    And if so:
    Russia, as usual, betrayed its allies. (she could immediately end the conflict that was not started by Armenia). But the ally in the person of Turkey, the ambiguous attitude towards the leadership of Armenia, after the dictator was overthrown, forced them to take a wait-and-see attitude). The Armenian army was destroyed. She fought according to the measures of the Soviet era (if they had a nuclear button, they would have used it). Azerbaijanis also behaved like children in a showdown, and the speech of their president is a gangster showdown for sure. The loss of our helicopter is an easy shame both for our Air Force (in the sense that it is a technique that is so easy to shoot down) and for Lavrov's diplomacy. It is not clear that everyone is hooked on this Karabakh - there is no oil there for an hour? Complete devastation without war. This Karabakh must be given to the UN as a disputed territory. And evict everyone from there.
  • georggy
    georggy 21 November 2020 16: 30
    0
    Does Russia need all these Armenians?
  • ximkim
    ximkim 21 November 2020 17: 26
    +1
    Ay. There is always everyone to blame. Who betrayed Armenia? Residents of Armenia!
    1. Selevc
      Selevc 21 November 2020 21: 55
      +1
      Armenia was betrayed by that second Armenia who drives Mercedes, lives in luxurious houses and sends her children to study abroad !!!
      The Armenians need to arrange a serious investigation into the spending on the country's defense over the past 30 years - if corruption is revealed, the perpetrators should be tried by a tribunal, and those who bought outdated or inadequate military equipment should be forced to prove in court that it was vital to buy it.

      But naturally neither the new nor the old Armenian authorities will judge themselves and investigate their own crimes - therefore, the scenario of a new Armenian revolution is very likely - but this time instead of roses and tulips Comrade Mauser and the guillotine will speak !!!
  • SHAH
    SHAH 21 November 2020 17: 41
    +3
    Something, in 1902 Tsar Nicholas II issued a decree on the confiscation of the property of the Armenian Gregorian Church in Russia and on the closure of Armenian schools. Why - because of the growth of Armenian nationalism and their illegal actions against Russia. And the Russian Orthodox Church betrayed - ANATHEMA - the Armenian Church. It turns out that during services in Armenian churches all other faiths, including the Orthodox, are cursed, and they glorify only the Catholicos and the Gregorian faith. And this has been going on for centuries, and the Russians consider them "allies". These are the enemies, the fifth column with its own program and leaders in Russia.
  • Yaroslav Tekkel
    Yaroslav Tekkel 21 November 2020 23: 09
    +2
    Yeah, of course. Now everyone will blame Pashinyan. As if he was doing something that the previous Armenian government did not do. I understand the Armenian generals - it is profitable for them to blame their defeats on Pashinyan, as in their time the Germans blamed everything on Hitler, and some Soviet ones on Stalin. Just keep in mind that Pashinyan came to power just two years before. Therefore:

    1. The world's largest American embassy. In fact, the second in the world, but not the essence. It became the largest under Pashinyan? No, the current embassy complex, which can accommodate 2500 employees, was built in 2003.

    2. Refusal to negotiate with Azerbaijan. Was it Pashinyan who came up with dynamism for Azerbaijanis? No, this and all previous governments flatly refused to return even the "security zone" to the Azerbaijanis (that is, undoubtedly the Azerbaijani territories around Karabakh, occupied in the first war). Aliyev himself said about this: they say, for 20 years (not 2 years!), The negotiations within the Minsk Group did not yield anything, the Armenians used it to imitate the negotiation process and do nothing. If Pashinyan had given even an inch of land to the Azerbaijanis, his own people would have torn him the next day (as they are trying to break it even now).

    3. Wrong purchase of Su-30 and Iskander. They wanted to buy the Su-30 even under the previous government, discussions have been going on since at least 2015. And these were the wishes of the military, not the civilian leadership. Who is to blame for the military that having received what they wanted, they did not even try to use it. And about the Iskanders, Russian military experts, who are now laughing at Pashinyan, once wrote that their purchase was an ingenious step that nullifies Azerbaijan's superiority in other weapons. Who could have foreseen that it didn't work like that?

    4. Wrong preparation for war. As if the previous government was preparing correctly. The idiots had 26 years to create an indestructible defense in Karabakh. Let me remind you that ISIS (prohibited, etc.) in 1 year created such fortifications in Mosul that a hundred thousandth army of the besiegers, including an elite Iraqi division, specially prepared for urban battles, with the support of numerous NATO aircraft, American and French artillery, knocked out 12000 ISIS residents for a whole year with huge losses. The terrorists created 10-15 reserve fortified positions for each soldier, built many underground passages, along which it was possible to safely move both on their territory and to enter the rear of the attackers. If something like that was created in Karabakh, then no drones would help the Azerbaijanis. But the proud people of the mountains are too proud to dig in the ground.

    5. Multi-vector. She was practiced to her full height before Pashinyan. Moreover, she was acquitted. The "Minsk Group", which was supposed to deal with the settlement of the conflict, but in fact simply kept the status quo beneficial for Armenia, consisted of Russia, the United States and France. By a strange coincidence, these three countries have the three largest Armenian diasporas in the world. And while they collectively supported Armenia, there was no force in the world that would dare to challenge them. However, for a short time, circumstances developed in such a way that Azerbaijan opened a unique window of opportunity: the United States was mired in an internal crisis with BLM and elections, France was forced to wage a difficult confrontation with the entire Islamic world, and Russia decided to punish Armenians for the Maidan.

    In fact, Pashinyan is to blame not for the fact that he changed something for the worse compared to his predecessors, but for the fact that, on the contrary, he did not change almost anything. If an experienced military man were in his place, who would have personally inspected the fortifications of Karabakh two years ago, grabbed his head and made the military make up for lost time under vigilant control 2 hours a day, the situation could still have been saved.
    1. Cottager452
      Cottager452 22 November 2020 04: 16
      -2
      Azerbaijan is the aggressor that violated the truce. This is the main fact that matters.
    2. DDT
      DDT 27 November 2020 01: 34
      0
      Taking off my hat. Excellent review of the mediocre blizzard of the "author". hi
  • fif21
    fif21 22 November 2020 16: 56
    +1
    The Armenians surrendered Karabakh, not recognizing its independence. So far, Armenia is a member of the CSTO with all that it implies. But! After the statements of the "Russian occupants" a legitimate question arises - are these allies worth the forces and means that the Russian Federation spends on them? Who will pay for the RF peacekeeping mission in Karabakh? - Pensioners of the Russian Federation, or a kind uncle Vova from his own pocket? hi