Military Review

Spy Games: Operation Fake Letter

89

Konrad Adenauer


Many interesting stories from stories espionage is contained in the latest book "The Power of the Secret Services" (U. Klußmann, E.-M. Schnurr - Die Macht der Geheimdienste), which came out this year in Germany. One of them is about how Soviet intelligence wrote a letter from the former Federal Chancellor of Germany Konrad Adenauer (Konrad Hermann Joseph Adenauer).

"The power of special services"


The Power of the Secret Services (or The Power of the Secret Services) is not the only book of its kind published in 2020. In particular, the novelty from Heribert Schwan "Spies in the corridors of power" (Spione im Zentrum der Macht, 2020) tells about the work of the special services of the GDR (East Germany) during the Cold War. On the agents of the "Stasi" of the Ministry of State Security of the GDR (Ministerium für Staatssicherheit), who infiltrated the state, security and political structures of West Germany. A well-known Stasi spy was Gunther Guillaume, one of the assistants of the German Chancellor Willy Brandt (1969-1974).

Heribert Schwan studied thousands of documents and reported that at the end of the 1980s in the Federal Republic of Germany there were about 2 full-time and non-staff agents working for intelligence in the GDR. They infiltrated the Chancellor's entourage, ministries, power structures and the headquarters of the leading parties.

One of the Stasi's methods was the so-called "honey trap". The agents were used to seduce the subject into romantic or loving encounters. The object was then used blindly or recruited. The secret services of the GDR carried out Operation Romeo. Interesting, attractive men were selected as agents and targeted at single, most often middle-aged women who work as secretaries, stenographers and other workers in federal ministries and departments of the FRG. The agents seduced and recruited women.

For other recruits (not only women), ideology played an important role; they considered themselves fighters for communism, peace and progress. Many worked for the special services purely out of material interest.


German Chancellor Willy Brandt. Behind him in dark glasses is the East German spy Gunther Guillaume

An attempt to discredit Schroeder


At the end of 1972, the Christian Democratic Party (in the economy it advocated a social market economy, in foreign policy - for the absorption of East Germany) tried to organize in the Bundestag a vote of no confidence in the leader of the Social Democratic Party and Federal Chancellor Brandt.

The Chancellor pursued the so-called "New Eastern Policy" aimed at rapprochement with the GDR and the socialist countries of Europe. Bonn recognized the sovereignty of the GDR, the state border between the two German republics, diplomatic relations were established between the countries, and inter-German economic ties were strengthened. The Social Democratic Chancellor abandoned the former policy of Christian Democratic governments - the policy of ignoring the GDR as an "occupied territory". The plan was for the gradual democratization of East Germany (“change through rapprochement”) and the future voluntary unification of Germany. Bonn also recognized the eastern borders of the GDR, confirmed the borders of Poland and Czechoslovakia.

However, the Christian Democrats were unable to topple Brandt. They lacked only two votes. It later emerged that East German intelligence had paid at least two members of the federal assembly to vote for the chancellor. As a result, Willie Brand held on to his post and continued the pro-Eastern policy. And the Social Democrats won early elections that were held soon. Christian Democratic leader Rainer Barzel had to leave.

Former Minister of Internal Affairs of Germany (1953-1961, 1961-1966), Minister of Defense (1966-1969) Gerhard Schroeder, the full namesake of the future Chancellor of the already united Germany Gerhard Schroeder (1998-2005), applied for the position of the CDU chairman. But if the more modern Schroeder was a supporter of rapprochement between the FRG and Russia, then the Christian democrat Schroeder, on the contrary, advocated strengthening ties with NATO and the United States, as well as for confrontation with the GDR and the USSR. His rise to power could violate the policy of detente. Therefore, they tried to discredit Schroeder.

Lieutenant Colonel Portugalov's Assignment


The task was entrusted to Lieutenant Colonel of the KGD Nikolai Portugalov, officially an international journalist. He was a specialist in the Federal Republic of Germany. The officer had to prepare a forged letter dated 1966 from the already deceased German Chancellor Konrad Adenauer. In the letter, he allegedly warned the Christian Democrats against electing Schroeder as the head of the party. They say that the foreign minister relies too much on ties with the United States, neglecting France. Adenauer was already dead and could not refute the document.

Portugalov did a great job: he read letters and memoirs of the former chancellor, studied recordings of speeches. I tried to delve into the style and psyche of Adenauer. In a 1999 interview with Spiegel, the journalist said:

"I myself thought almost like Adenauer."

They tried to publish the deception through the channels of East German intelligence in the leading media of the FRG. However, without success. The document was published, but the desired effect was not achieved.

That Schroeder did not become the leader of the CDU, but for a completely different reason.

The post of the head of the Christian party in 1973 was taken by another contender - Helmut Kohl. He was also a staunch conservative and in 1982 became Federal Chancellor, which unified Germany.
Author:
Photos used:
https://www.dw.com/ru/
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  1. lelik613
    lelik613 20 November 2020 05: 20
    +3
    In what paragraph should we cry and repent?
    1. Lech from Android.
      Lech from Android. 20 November 2020 05: 38
      12
      In all, smile do not forget to receive a portion of the sanctions for them. The Stasi is an excellent intelligence organization ... There is a lot to learn from them. hiMarkus Wolf evokes in me the deepest respect, a strong-willed person who did not surrender his agents to the enemy even in prison. Such a person is a valuable gift for any special service.
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 20 November 2020 13: 12
        16
        Regarding General Markus Wolf, I completely agree with you, he was a talented and strong man, peace be upon him and good memory.

        But the "spotted hyena", which sold everything and everyone, still smokes the sky and will not die in any way.
        1. AK1972
          AK1972 20 November 2020 16: 44
          +9
          Quote: Sea Cat
          But the "spotted hyena", which sold everything and everyone, still smokes the sky and will not die in any way.

          Mikhail Gorbachev on his birthday shared with journalists the secret of his longevity: "They don't let them into hell, they are afraid that I will break up."
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 20 November 2020 17: 16
            +4
            The joker, his mother ...
          2. Pete mitchell
            Pete mitchell 20 November 2020 22: 27
            +5
            Quote: AK1972
            Gorbachev, on his birthday, shared with journalists the secret of his longevity: "They are not allowed to go to hell, they are afraid that I will break up."
            how are we so wrong that this bastard is not even accepted into hell ...
        2. andreykolesov123
          andreykolesov123 20 November 2020 18: 03
          -5
          Quote: Sea Cat
          About General Markus Wolff

          A Jew who supported terrorist attacks against Jews.
  2. parusnik
    parusnik 20 November 2020 06: 25
    +8
    I suspect that the original is larger in volume, and these are extracts from the original when reprinted. Here is a typical mistake in this case:
    The task was assigned to the lieutenant colonel of the KGD
    1. thinker
      thinker 20 November 2020 07: 56
      +3
      Half text, word for word from here negative
      By Diana Mikhailova 2020-07-05 03:55:00
      How Soviet intelligence wrote a letter from German Chancellor Adenauer

      https://diana-mihailova.livejournal.com/5118353.html
      1. BAI
        BAI 20 November 2020 10: 55
        +2
        Yes, from here. And a photo from the same place. And the KGD is a personal creation of the author.
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 20 November 2020 18: 39
          +1
          Quote: BAI
          And the KGD is a personal creation of the author.

          Deep Committee Drilling Milking. smile
    2. Undecim
      Undecim 20 November 2020 11: 16
      +4
      I suspect that the original is larger in volume
      More, but not much. Some details are omitted. But the author translated into German the title of the book Die Macht der Geheimdienste and mentioned the book Spione im Zentrum der Macht. Actually, this is the only list of differences from the original.
      1. vladcub
        vladcub 20 November 2020 17: 44
        +3
        "The author has translated into German the title of the book" Samsonov is great: he remembers the German language. He does not shine with other qualities, but this is the second thing.
    3. ccsr
      ccsr 20 November 2020 12: 29
      +2
      Quote: parusnik
      I suspect that the original is larger in volume, and these are extracts from the original when reprinted. Here is a typical mistake in this case:
      The task was assigned to the lieutenant colonel of the KGD

      Most likely yes - the text too resembles a digest.
      And pearls like
      Adenauer was already dead and could not refute the document.
      I was certainly amused, if only because it is not a big problem for professionals to conduct a thorough examination of the letter.
      Moreover, I strongly doubt that such a letter was of a purely intimate nature, which means that it was most likely to have been written by one of the referents, who would have kept working versions or notes, and he would certainly have confirmed the veracity of the letter or its forgery.
      In general, it looks like German authors are pulling an owl on a globe, however, they make money on this and they always look for fried, without even disdaining fraud.
      1. vladcub
        vladcub 20 November 2020 17: 46
        +2
        "not even disdaining fraud," and Samsonov repeats after them.
  3. Olgovich
    Olgovich 20 November 2020 08: 01
    0
    A short article ...
  4. Daniil Konovalenko
    Daniil Konovalenko 20 November 2020 11: 26
    +4
    Hmm ... the author has a crisis in the genre .. laughing
  5. Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 20 November 2020 14: 43
    +5
    [quote = thinker] Half text, word for word from here negative
    [quote] By Diana Mikhailova 2020-07-05 03:55:00
    How Soviet intelligence wrote a letter from German Chancellor Adenauer [/ quote]
    https://diana-mihailova.livejournal.com/5118353.html[/quote
    Does Samsonov know that cheating is not good?
  6. Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 20 November 2020 14: 46
    +1
    Quote: BAI
    Yes, from here. And a photo from the same place. And the KGD is a personal creation of the author.

    Does he not distinguish between letters?
    1. BAI
      BAI 20 November 2020 15: 33
      +2
      The keyboard is already on strike.
  7. Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 20 November 2020 15: 53
    +4
    Good afternoon colleagues
    Samsonov surprised me: he usually exposed the intrigues of materialism, but today he began to "fight" against the KGD (I have not heard of such a department).
    “One of the Stasi methods was the so-called“ honey trap. ”If only the Stasi used the“ honey trap, ”you can read about such a recruiting method in every second dective.
    1. depressant
      depressant 21 November 2020 00: 16
      +1
      Astra, good evening! )))
      We also had "our own" very strong spies.
      For example, as many as five intelligence officers in MI5, MI6, as well as in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the War Department of England. These were
      Guy Burgess, Donald McLean, Anthony Blunt, John Cairncross, led by Kim Philby. Feeling close to failure, Philby contacted the Soviet curator and was evacuated by sea to the USSR. Already with us, he worked in the central intelligence as a consultant for Western intelligence services and trained intelligence officers. He was repeatedly awarded for high achievements in his work. He has a book - "My Secret War". Not a "honey trap", he was ideological. Everything was solid.
      1. Astra wild2
        Astra wild2 21 November 2020 07: 37
        +1
        Lyudmila Yakovlevna, good morning. I know about the Cambridge Five.
        I heard about: "Red Chapel", they WERE IDEAL ANTIFASHISTS.
        Samsonov disappointed me very much: he writes so many nonsense.
        1. depressant
          depressant 21 November 2020 08: 52
          +1
          Were the "Red Chapel" spies? ))
          1. Phil77
            Phil77 21 November 2020 09: 25
            +1
            Quote: depressant
            Were the "Red Chapel" spies? ))

            And what more !!!! Mateye.Dazhe .... you know who was not standing next to you. laughing
            Although ?? ... They are all spies. And .... scouts! laughing
            Good morning to you, dear Lyudmila Yakovlevna !!!!!
            1. depressant
              depressant 21 November 2020 09: 36
              -1
              Good morning, Seryozha! )))
              Snow is annoying! Dropped out. Dropped out and lies. As a child I loved snow, but now I look at it and think: "But you are for a long time, worthless!" I want warmth. Both in nature and in politics. And to catch the spies. Now there are a lot of them on our territory. Only if earlier they were encrypted, now they are called NGOs and openly exist on grants from enemies. Such, for example, as Khodorkovsky. I believed that in recent years they have been defeated, and now and then they surface in the form of ideological saboteurs and innocent victims. It should be stricter with them, stricter)))
              1. Astra wild2
                Astra wild2 21 November 2020 13: 16
                +2
                Lyudmila Yakovlevna, I will slightly correct you "the fifth column used to be encrypted, but now it exists under the guise of various NGOs. Remember what a wild cry began when they were not even banned, but only limited?
                All these NGOs, Navalny, Gudkov, they are just waiting for "X hour"
          2. Astra wild2
            Astra wild2 21 November 2020 12: 44
            +1
            They are the same spies as the "Cambridge Five"
        2. Phil77
          Phil77 21 November 2020 09: 28
          +1
          Quote: Astra wild2
          writes so many nonsense.

          Don't judge him harshly, dear Vera. laughing
          1. depressant
            depressant 21 November 2020 13: 10
            +3
            Seryozha, I am generally categorically opposed to condemning our respected Authors)))
            They write too long - the comment follows: "I'm tired of reading, I won't go on!" They write briefly, immediately follows: "The article is a minus, the topic is not disclosed." Well, open it up, commentator. If you write that the topic is not covered, then you know a priori how to open it, so open it! Maybe, having written briefly, the Author specially left you the opportunity to reveal the undisclosed, so that you yourself, your wisdom, showed. No. The displeased is silent. And if, God forbid, the Author made a spelling mistake, then this is just a holiday for the soul ...
            Colleagues, let's be kinder, more tolerant of our Authors. Our own comments often demonstrate a much worse literary style, and I generally keep quiet about the level of competence of many commentators. In particular, about my own)))
            Let's not check in this way on VO. Driving the Author under the plinth, we find ourselves in the same place. Since we have chosen this Internet resource, then we must take care of it.
            1. Astra wild2
              Astra wild2 21 November 2020 13: 31
              +2
              Lyudmila Yakovlevna, you are more tolerant, and I am more aggressive towards stupidity
              1. depressant
                depressant 21 November 2020 14: 01
                +2
                Astra, I'm not tolerant of stupidity, but of human weaknesses, to which I do not attribute aggression))
                The authors are not to blame for anything. Aggression should be directed only against aggression in any form. For example, our state, not knowing how to create conditions for the economic prosperity of its citizens, is showing aggression towards us for the fact that we exist in general and will not die out in any way, so that it can live easily and simply with a small number of people - exactly the same as will allow him to fill his pockets with impunity, taking advantage of the natural rent. As a result, I show passive aggression towards him, not listening to the voice of reason. Someone will also show active aggression. But the Authors - and what?)))
                Maybe Mr. Samsonov is sick, now everyone is sick, but overcoming the disease, I had to write a short article so that the site would have at least something new in the "History" section, and we blame him for the wrong letter. Re-read your comments - you also have a spelling error in one place, but I didn't blame you for that)))
                1. Astra wild2
                  Astra wild2 21 November 2020 14: 24
                  +2
                  As for the spelling, it is possible: 1) haste; 2) a typo
                  You and I were born and brought up under socialism and therefore we cannot measure ourselves against the current system. Perhaps I am younger, perhaps my character, perhaps "spoiled" the site, but now I try to evaluate in comparison
                  1. depressant
                    depressant 21 November 2020 15: 48
                    0
                    Astra, I have an extremely negative and difficult life experience. This is the whole point.
                    1. Phil77
                      Phil77 21 November 2020 18: 24
                      +1
                      Quote: depressant
                      difficult life experience.

                      Lyudmila Yakovlevna! Communication with you is just a huge huge plus! I'm just glad to communicate with you, my dear! love
                    2. Phil77
                      Phil77 21 November 2020 20: 06
                      +2
                      Quote: depressant
                      , I have an extremely negative and difficult life experience. This is the whole point.

                      For this comment, who * minus * you *, huh? No words!
                      1. depressant
                        depressant 21 November 2020 20: 48
                        +1
                        The more you undeservedly praise me, the more minuses they will put on me. Praise, undeservedly received by one, humiliates the other - the one who deserves it, but did not receive it. So, Seryozha, stop wasting! stop wassat
                      2. Phil77
                        Phil77 21 November 2020 21: 05
                        +1
                        Quote: depressant
                        Seryozha, stop wasting!

                        Lyudmila Yakovlevna !!!! I love you ..... like mathematics! love laughing love laughing love
                        Is it possible? Yes! And your comments are really GOOD !!!
                        Already, let me admire you! love
                      3. depressant
                        depressant 21 November 2020 22: 05
                        +1
                        Sergei, admire ... And I will feel oppressed and close my hands from the incoming minuses. Silently. I don't like to argue. It's just that sometimes you want to blather something and withdraw into yourself. And you are forcing me to argue)))
                      4. Phil77
                        Phil77 22 November 2020 09: 28
                        +2
                        Good morning to you, dear Lyudmila Yakovlevna!
                        Okay, you have persuaded me. I will silently * plus * you. Good and objective comments. love
                      5. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 22 November 2020 09: 35
                        +2
                        “May the hand of the giver not fail” (c).

                        Really, I don’t know whether it is permissible to joke based on the Holy Texts.
                        I will consider that it is permissible.
                      6. Phil77
                        Phil77 22 November 2020 09: 38
                        +2
                        Quote: Korsar4
                        is it permissible to joke based on the sacred texts.
                        I will consider that it is permissible

                        And then! Hello Sergey! Not just permissible, but ... necessary. hi
                        Although they may be accused of something? wink
                      7. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 22 November 2020 09: 46
                        +2
                        Sometimes you get carried away with the word words. But with age, you become a little quieter.

                        Good morning, Seryozha!
                    3. Phil77
                      Phil77 22 November 2020 09: 41
                      +2
                      Quote: Korsar4
                      joke based on sacred texts.

                      And the judges? Who? belay
                    4. Korsar4
                      Korsar4 22 November 2020 09: 45
                      +2
                      Only we ourselves. Only, for some reason, condescending.
                    5. Phil77
                      Phil77 22 November 2020 11: 01
                      +3
                      Quote: Korsar4
                      condescending.

                      You will not praise yourself, no one will praise?
                      Yes, okay! Let those who follow us judge by our actions. But what is important, they should not be the first. But ... and we are not the first, and not even the second. Oh, something has drawn into philosophy. what would it be?
                    6. Korsar4
                      Korsar4 22 November 2020 11: 50
                      +1
                      To the wind. Probably, he gave the forecast based on what is outside.
          2. Phil77
            Phil77 22 November 2020 10: 56
            +2
            Quote: depressant
            You make me argue)))

            Unfair! When did I call you to the barrier? * Oh, women! Your name is treachery! * laughing
  • Phil77
    Phil77 21 November 2020 18: 26
    +1
    Quote: Astra wild2
    I try to evaluate in comparison

    And rightly so! Everything is in your hands! hi
  • Phil77
    Phil77 21 November 2020 18: 41
    +2
    Quote: depressant
    Re-read your comments - you also have a spelling error in one place, but I didn't blame you for that)))

    Sweetheart, kindest, how I love your comments! good love
  • Phil77
    Phil77 21 November 2020 18: 22
    +1
    Quote: Astra wild2
    , and I'm more aggressive towards stupidity

    Which is not always right! hi
    1. depressant
      depressant 21 November 2020 19: 08
      +1
      Seryozha, I already asked you not to praise me! For my feeling of awkwardness from inconsistency with the ideal that you have created in your imagination instead of me overpowers the feeling of pleasant sensations from your praise. I would prefer you to criticize me))))
      1. Phil77
        Phil77 21 November 2020 20: 09
        +2
        Quote: depressant
        so that you criticize me))))

        Oh !!! Nasty! laughing laughing laughing laughing

        This is from us!
  • Phil77
    Phil77 21 November 2020 21: 07
    +1
    Quote: Astra wild2
    I'm more aggressive towards stupidity

    Pur kuapa? Treat her ... as it is! It happens, that's all. belay
  • vladcub
    vladcub 20 November 2020 17: 28
    +3
    In the 60-70s, from the intelligence services of the eastern bloc, the Stasi was distinguished by delicate and efficient work.
    Stasi worked most successfully in South America.
    1. depressant
      depressant 20 November 2020 22: 55
      +2
      There in the photo behind Brandt is the spy Gunther Guillaume. Two questions at once:

      1) do agents of any intelligence agency wear black glasses? )))
      It turns out, as you see a person in black glasses under electric lighting, you can immediately assume that he is a spy and get an autograph;
      2) and here are these Western names and surnames. Gunther is a German name, Guillaume is a French one. How do relatives refer to a spy - Gunther or Guillaume? ))

      I apologize for not writing on the case. It's just such a hellish week, so all these political events have strained, exhausted, that involuntarily it seems as if in a quagmire, you want to emerge to get away from everything, but there is nowhere to go.
      What a wonderful time! Schroeder, Adenauer ... Kohl is already worse, and then really bad.
      1. rudolff
        rudolff 20 November 2020 23: 16
        +3
        Yes, in general, politicians are somehow shallow. There were Names, but now just passing figures with rare exceptions. Thatcher, Jacques Chirac, Berlusconi, the Gandhi galaxy, Benazir Bhuto ... And who is now in Italy, India, Pakistan ..? Fortunately, in Britain, the United States, clowns, or even here, would have to strain memory.
        1. depressant
          depressant 20 November 2020 23: 31
          +3
          Rudolph, you are absolutely right!
          I knew everyone by name, I mean the heads of state. And even biographies. I remember how Rajiv Gandhi was killed - what a handsome man he was ...
          And now? Who is in India, who is in Pakistan? I have no idea! But the video was repeatedly watched as Indians and Pakistanis set up guards at the border - the circus is resting! Well this is necessary! With menacing screams towards each other, with vertical legs, everything looks like a ritual dance, crowds of tourists and local spectators. You look and think: are they serious? After all, adults! )))
          And the policy has become at the level of deploying Pakistani and Indian border guards.
          1. rudolff
            rudolff 21 November 2020 00: 20
            +1
            Yes, and it's a pity. India has come to be associated with this posting of the guard and the tanks hung with colored garlands, and Pakistan is purely with terrorism. But there was Bhuto, a gorgeous woman! For the Islamic state, it was just a brain explosion!
            Remember Afghanistan. After the death of Ahmad Shah, there was a series of faceless faces.
            1. depressant
              depressant 21 November 2020 00: 36
              +1
              Benazir Bhuto - before her eyes her image!
              I am trying to remember Merkel - something wrinkled, crumpled like a faded, stale apple, and this suit ... Benazir always had her head covered - a white scarf casually thrown over her black hair, a beautiful face ... The world was crushing unequivocally. There was the USSR, there were great times, great politicians, even spies were great.
              I don’t remember the film, but I remember the scene as the employees in the MI6 headquarters grieve over the collapse of the USSR and raise a toast in honor of the bygone country. There, smart people work, even then they understood what was what, the scriptwriters took this into account.
              And now ... As spies, we catch 70-year-olds. The other day they caught this again, I didn't even read.
              1. rudolff
                rudolff 21 November 2020 00: 56
                +2
                Alas, we are destined to live out our days in a time of illusions, fakes, fake. Whatever it is. Truly, there is nothing to lean against!
                1. Phil77
                  Phil77 21 November 2020 20: 16
                  +3
                  Quote: rudolff
                  there is nothing to lean against!

                  Quote: rudolff
                  there is nothing to lean against!

                  Are you joking? wink
              2. Astra wild2
                Astra wild2 21 November 2020 07: 51
                +2
                Lyudmila Yakovlevna and colleague Rudolph. Indeed, there are no more prominent politicians: Thatcher was an anti-communist, but she was an intelligent and elegant woman. I was still a schoolgirl and even imitated her a little.
                And Indira Gandhi is an intelligent and strong-willed woman.
                1. Phil77
                  Phil77 21 November 2020 09: 49
                  +2
                  Quote: Astra wild2
                  but she was a smart and elegant woman

                  You, Vera, would say that to English miners, eh? laughing
                  1. Astra wild2
                    Astra wild2 21 November 2020 12: 28
                    +2
                    Sergey, don't you remember the first part of my post?
                    1. Phil77
                      Phil77 21 November 2020 18: 30
                      +2
                      Quote: Astra wild2
                      remember the first part of my post?

                      * Come on, Stirlitz, my head is splitting ... * Vera! And let's, without ah ?! titles ?!
                2. Phil77
                  Phil77 21 November 2020 09: 52
                  +3
                  Quote: Astra wild2
                  Indeed, there are no more bright politicians:


                  Not bright enough in your opinion?
                  1. Astra wild2
                    Astra wild2 21 November 2020 12: 31
                    +2
                    Comrade Colonel General, quite right
                    1. Phil77
                      Phil77 22 November 2020 11: 26
                      +2
                      Quote: Astra wild2
                      Comrade Colonel General

                      Comrade Captain! Go on, we * generals * love flattery. laughing
                      Oh, and an ulcer, me! laughing
                      1. Astra wild2
                        Astra wild2 22 November 2020 16: 01
                        +1
                        Demonstrate that I understand military ranks
                  2. Korsar4
                    Korsar4 22 November 2020 19: 57
                    0
                    “But keep in mind that Fischer is very bright.
                    He even sleeps with a board.
                    The power is in him "(c).
              3. Phil77
                Phil77 22 November 2020 11: 42
                +1
                Quote: depressant
                As spies we catch 70-year-olds. The other day they caught this again, I didn't even read.

                We are growing old, alas! So we see the ghosts of the past? No?
                1. Phil77
                  Phil77 22 November 2020 12: 53
                  +1
                  Quote: Phil77
                  ghosts of the past?

                  There were people, there were politicians, there were ...

  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 21 November 2020 13: 35
    +3
    Quote: Phil77
    Quote: Astra wild2
    writes so many nonsense.

    Don't judge him harshly, dear Vera. laughing

    In this case, it is less sore.
    1. Phil77
      Phil77 21 November 2020 18: 31
      +1
      Quote: Astra wild2
      less sore

      I just can't, alas for me. drinks
      1. Phil77
        Phil77 21 November 2020 18: 53
        +1
        Quote: Phil77
        alas for me

        * Minus *? This is an argument! Thank the minus! laughing
        1. Astra wild2
          Astra wild2 21 November 2020 20: 38
          +1
          I'll be honest: "minus" hooked me and almost told you, and then doubted the "authorship" and kept silent
          1. Phil77
            Phil77 21 November 2020 21: 31
            +1
            Quote: Astra wild2
            authorship

            Not me! Why?
          2. depressant
            depressant 22 November 2020 12: 02
            +1
            Astra, remember, I don’t give you any disadvantages, even when I don’t agree))) Because I think: what if you’re right, and I’m not right.
            1. Phil77
              Phil77 22 November 2020 12: 55
              +2
              Quote: depressant
              Astra, remember, I do not give you disadvantages, even when I disagree)))

              Remembering the contract. Just silently, * + *, so passed by. laughing
              1. depressant
                depressant 22 November 2020 13: 13
                +1
                Dear colleagues, it turns out a chat, it turns out inconvenient. They do not delete it because, according to my estimates, we are all real people here, and therefore correct, or at least interesting thoughts on the topic arise not only within the boundaries indicated by the Author of the article, but also outside the given topic. Indeed, what new can we say about spy scandals, besides what can be found on the Internet? We are not spies)))
                And if they were and knew a lot, then they would be silent due to the nondisclosure agreement.
                Just a little otnostalgirovali for those times when they were all together, but I had no idea about the Stasi)))
            2. Astra wild2
              Astra wild2 22 November 2020 15: 40
              +2
              Lyudmila Yakovlevna, I didn't think about you. The first thought was on Sergei. What I thought: I answered Phil, and he made a minus.
              As for the cons. I have a rule to put a minus for: Rudeness is not a sign of masculinity, but rather evidence of lack of culture; obscenity, even in her first appearance on the site, put one colleague -, and in return received5 and a bunch of epithets, that sold to the Americans and deliberately advocate the defeat of Russia. Someone obscenely commented on the appearance of an American ship in the Black Sea, but said that this was not a sign of patriotism.
              I also put a minus for a completely stupid comment. There was once a stupid article: "The October Revolution was prepared by the tsarist generals" and some commented with delight. I was outraged: did they not study in a Soviet school.? They don't remember Lenin at all?
  • Doliva63
    Doliva63 21 November 2020 18: 46
    +1
    The post of the head of the Christian party in 1973 was taken by another contender - Helmut Kohl. He was also a staunch conservative and in 1982 became Federal Chancellor, which unified Germany.
    Stupidity. The GDR "merged" the humpbacked one on its own initiative. And Kohl only formalized the seizure of another country officially.
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 21 November 2020 20: 33
    +1
    Quote: Phil77
    Quote: Astra wild2
    less sore

    I just can't, alas for me. drinks

    And I cannot do otherwise
    1. rudolff
      rudolff 21 November 2020 21: 53
      +1
      I agree with you, Astra. Even opponents must be appreciated. Thatcher was definitely a bright woman and a strong personality. In many ways worthy of emulation. If you try to compare her, let's say, with our prima politess Matvienko, then ...
      And after the departure of Gandhi, mother and son, it was as if India itself disappeared. For decades.
      1. Astra wild2
        Astra wild2 22 November 2020 15: 58
        +2
        It's nice when you are understood. About Indira and Rajiv Gandhi. Not only we have this feeling. The Indians themselves did not imagine that the ruling party would be headed by someone else. After the death of Rajiv, the party lost the elections and they pleaded for the party to be headed by the widow of Rajiv, Sonia Gandhi. Do you know that she is Italian? In 2011, our battalion commander gave me reading, like a synopsis for India, and then I learned a lot
        1. rudolff
          rudolff 22 November 2020 16: 56
          0
          Yes, I know about Sonya Gandhi. She was the first and undisputed candidate. It was because of her origin that she refused.
          1. Astra wild2
            Astra wild2 22 November 2020 17: 18
            +2
            It would be original: the Prime Minister of India is Italian !!
            1. rudolff
              rudolff 22 November 2020 17: 52
              +1
              Yes, for India that would be nonsense. The Sikhs would definitely not have passed by Sonya, but they at least survived.