Military Review

Why Armenia didn't send an army corps to the rescue of the Karabakh army: reflections on the situation

142
Why Armenia didn't send an army corps to the rescue of the Karabakh army: reflections on the situation

When Azerbaijani troops, actively supported by Turkey, one after another took settlements in the so-called "buffer zone" around Nagorno-Karabakh and in the most unrecognized republic with an Armenian population, the most combat-ready units of the Armenian armed forces did not participate in this conflict. It seems impossible, but they are talking about it, and they are also talking about military correspondents from the scene. The other day there were comments by the military commander of the WarGonzo project, Semyon Pegov, who said that "there was not enough additional army corps."


Let us assume that this is indeed the case. Then why didn't Armenia send an army corps to the rescue of the Karabakh army, although it badly needed help? I will present my thoughts on this topic.

The Artsakh Defense Army, local militias and volunteers from Armenia who came to their aid stood up to defend the unrecognized republic and its people. Despite the quantitative and technical superiority of Azerbaijan, they continued to fight as long as they could. Although the maximum that they were theoretically capable of was to hold out for several days until the main forces arrived, which Karabakh never received.

And at this time the Armenian military were waiting for the order in the barracks? It turns out that the army equipped with modern weapons was simply inactive. It is not a fact that Armenia could defeat the Azerbaijani troops, but the very fact ... They could at least defend Shushi.

All this looks as if the Yerevan leadership, headed by Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan, simply abandoned Karabakh to its own devices, having initially determined this fate for it. But Stepanakert simply had nowhere to wait for help except from Armenia. Also taking into account the fact that Armenia itself did not recognize the NKR ...

De jure, the whole world, including official Yerevan, considered (and considers) Nagorno-Karabakh a part of Azerbaijan, therefore the very intervention from the outside would look like an actual declaration of war on Azerbaijan. Isn't that why Yerevan delayed the introduction of the main forces, realizing that in this case Azerbaijan (and Turkey) untie their hands and legitimize the very possibility of fighting not only in Karabakh, but also on the territory of Armenia. Initially, President Ilham Aliyev said that Baku does not have any military targets outside of Nagorno-Karabakh, but in the event of the transfer of the main Armenian troops, such targets could appear. One limiting factor, but a very important one - after all, Armenia is a member of the CSTO. And the authorities of both Armenia and Azerbaijan from Moscow could well have made it clear that they would not "flirt" and not cross new "red borders".


In this regard, there is a feeling that Pashinyan deliberately sought his defeat in the conflict with Baku. Such a "multi-move". The purpose of this could be, for example, a complete separation of Armenia from Russia and its turn to the West. Suppose they surrendered Karabakh to Azerbaijan, accused Russia of not intervening, Yerevan broke off relations with it and completely changed its orientation to the West. And if Moscow intervened in the conflict, it would also be a good option for anti-Russian forces. As a standard, we declare it an aggressor trying to occupy the South Caucasus.

Of course, this is only a version, but Pashinyan's actions fit perfectly into it. He didn’t recognize Artsakh either, and didn’t send his armed forces to help him, and said to the Russian president that he was not ready for compromises with Baku and would “fight to the end”. He fought ...

But if at one time Baku and Yerevan had listened to the opinion of Russia, they would have been able to come to practically the same results, but without the bloodshed of many thousands of victims. Azerbaijan would return the areas occupied by Yerevan around the unrecognized NKR and would no longer have any claims. The transport corridor between Armenia and Artsakh would then have been wider than it is now. And Shushi would have remained with the Karabakh Armenians.

And although Pashinyan acted wisely at the very last moment, apparently, having ceased to hope for the support of Western countries and signed a peace agreement with Baku, his fate is still in question. He rarely appears in public, clearly fearing for his life. And it is not unreasonable, since now in Armenia he is considered the culprit of all the troubles that have happened.


And it's scary to even imagine what could happen to him if he fell into the hands of an angry crowd of his compatriots. But until recently, they loved him so much.
Author:
Photos used:
Ministry of Defense of Armenia, Twitter / nikolpashinyan
142 comments
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  1. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 18 November 2020 17: 50
    26
    And why was it necessary to send, if, according to the reports of the same Semyon Regin, all attacks were repelled, the Azerbaijanis were not killed by measure and, in general, they are about to go over to a massive counteroffensive and throw the enemy back for Baku ?!
    1. Bashkirkhan
      Bashkirkhan 18 November 2020 17: 54
      11
      The same reports were for the turbopatriots, competent people understood that the war was lost.
      1. the finish
        the finish 18 November 2020 18: 40
        +3
        In that case, voice your losses!
      2. Pereira
        Pereira 19 November 2020 09: 28
        +3
        For which turbo patriots? He wrote for Russia, not for Armenia.
    2. The comment was deleted.
      1. Bilal
        Bilal 18 November 2020 18: 29
        -15 qualifying.
        And they just "ichtamnet" s Armenian bottling ...))))
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. Odessa Greek
          Odessa Greek 19 November 2020 11: 09
          10
          Is all the toad strangling for the Crimea? wink Relax already, let's shout together - SUGS !!! Smirt the curds !! fellow
      2. Alex777
        Alex777 19 November 2020 12: 22
        +3
        How did you not send it? And why then in Armenia they say that their soldiers are not released?

        It is not easy to comment on what they say in Armenia.
        But there is still martial law.
        And I have not heard that the mobilization was canceled.
        Apparently, therefore, the soldiers are not at home, but in the barracks.
        About fled in Karabakh - the NKR President himself said.
    3. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 18 November 2020 17: 58
      +5
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      and throw back the enemy for Baku ?!

      perfrasing Chekhov's Belikov: "And there is the Caspian Sea .... No matter what happens ..." laughing
      1. Hypertension
        Hypertension 18 November 2020 18: 50
        +6
        Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        perfrasing Chekhov's Belikov: "And there is the Caspian Sea .... No matter what happens ..."

        Looking at the crowds of protesters wrapped in the flags of Armenia, I want to paraphrase Zhirinovsky:
        "Ilham, your soldiers will be torn apart here. These are 250 thousand selected soldiers of the I̶r̶a̶k̶a̶ of Armenia! They will smash everything! They will cover all of Karabakh in one hour! They will blow up all your bayraktars, all your journalists, diplomats. Ilham, you are an asker. You stop, you finish, you hide the cartridges away in the warehouse. And forget about your dad."
        But the stump is clear that rallying is one thing, and fighting is another. Some Major General Stepanyan said about 10.000 deserters.
        1. Leeds
          Leeds 19 November 2020 09: 12
          +1
          Quote: Hyperion
          Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          perfrasing Chekhov's Belikov: "And there is the Caspian Sea .... No matter what happens ..."

          Looking at the crowds of protesters wrapped in the flags of Armenia, I want to paraphrase Zhirinovsky:
          "Ilham, your soldiers will be torn apart here. These are 250 thousand selected soldiers of the I̶r̶a̶k̶a̶ of Armenia! They will smash everything! They will cover all of Karabakh in one hour! They will blow up all your bayraktars, all your journalists, diplomats. Ilham, you are an asker. You stop, you finish, you hide the cartridges away in the warehouse. And forget about your dad."
          But the stump is clear that rallying is one thing, and fighting is another. Some Major General Stepanyan said about 10.000 deserters.

          Not Zhirinovsky, but "A man who looks like Zhirinovsky" according to the results of the investigation of the State Duma of the Russian Federation. We were wrong then, and it seemed to everyone.
          And in essence of the article, the main thing that the author noted, ANY step was played by the opponents of Russia in their favor, both naked and by others. Such is the information and political field around. Therefore, it is much more important that we managed not to get into this swamp.
    4. Megatron
      Megatron 18 November 2020 18: 21
      22
      Oh, come on, what volunteers are there.
      Two cripples arrived. I already wrote that if even one hundred thousand Armenians arrived, the alignment would be completely different, not to mention a million. The Armenians turned out to be couch patsreots who only in social networks support their country.
      Well, that's it, the cherry orchard (Karabakh) is gone.
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 18 November 2020 19: 22
        +2
        “I already wrote that if at least one hundred thousand Armenians arrived, the alignment would be completely different.” “Well, maybe there are several times more corpses. The more people the easier it is to get in.
        1. Megatron
          Megatron 18 November 2020 19: 44
          +8
          Judging by your words, the Armenians should have surrendered it without a fight at that time.
          I mean that in social networks every Armenian wrote a single thread about Karabakh or Armenia, but in fact there was nothing.
          1. Pereira
            Pereira 19 November 2020 09: 30
            +5
            All steam went off into the whistle.
    5. Pereira
      Pereira 19 November 2020 09: 27
      0
      In fact of the matter. There was enough strength to restrain. And for a counteroffensive you need an order of magnitude more. And few of the militia remained. The most prepared and all equipment were knocked out by drones.
      1. Megatron
        Megatron 19 November 2020 21: 23
        0
        Now imagine that a million Armenians are attacking at once, in a wave along the entire front. I think the Azeri would run away.
    6. max702
      max702 19 November 2020 11: 43
      +7
      Satya is nonsense .. Armenia fought there in full growth, one frame from drones is enough to understand that it was not only the Karabakh forces .. Now the Armenians tightened the mantra that there were no REAL troops there because it is a shame and complete helplessness from a military point of view .. And this position explains everything .. An excuse like Pashinyan's cunning plan in the same stream .. It must be understood that Armenia’s withdrawal to the United States is just a holiday for Russia! Firstly, finally, these parasites will get off our neck (at least it will be much easier to throw them off it), and secondly, the friendly US Armenia is driving a huge wedge into the already difficult relations between the United States and Turkey, which Russia is exclusively at hand. So go for it. the scenario at the time to open champagne as was done in the US State Department when the USSR troops entered Afghanistan. The fact that in Armenia they realized with horror that TODAY the Russians would not fight for them was a terrible revelation for them .. This is the main reason for such idiotic behavior of the Armenians .. "Russia must!" This is what sits in the subcortex of all used 14 republics and does not want to get out of there in any way ... From this all these antics ... For there is a reinforced concrete confidence Russia will come to save and do well .. Alas, by the introduction of peacekeepers, we have again confirmed this .. Categorically in vain ! It will not reach them until everyone loses it, and then it will still not reach them ... The introduction of peacekeepers is a tragic mistake that allows us to implement (albeit partially) the plan of this entire operation to draw Russia into the conflict with Turkey ..
      1. Russian jacket
        Russian jacket 19 November 2020 14: 40
        10
        You're right. Dostoevsky described such a development of events .... Rassiya pamagy .... While it was calm, yelling and writing so that the invaders were removed. So they waited. The invaders grew smarter and did not start harnessing for "friendly Armenia". There is independence, so be completely independent. You don't need to have such allies ...
      2. matross
        matross 19 November 2020 18: 58
        +2
        Quote: max702
        an error that allows you to implement (albeit partially) the plan of this entire operation to draw Russia into the conflict with Turkey ..

        And who developed the insidious "plan for this whole operation"? CIA? Mossad? Martians?
        If without conspiracy theories, in fact, Azerbaijan, with the military-technical support of the Turks, having waited for the right moment, undertook a successful offensive with limited goals. Russia gave him a bite to bite off (not all that was planned!) And commanded "fu!" At the exit: friendly Azerbaijan in the euphoria of a "great" victory, "independent" Armenia is returned to the stall, Russia rules in the South Caucasus. What have the Turks got to do with it? It has nothing to do with it. Trying to get into unmanned peacekeepers ...
        1. max702
          max702 19 November 2020 19: 50
          10
          Everything is just beginning there .. By itself, Armenia is only needed by Azerbaijan as revenge for the past defeat and the return of land. Everything else is empty, which gives control of Armenia to Russia? Well, exactly what? A military base? Do you know what weapons are there and what they can be used for? There, weapons are 70 = 80s and they can be used in a conflict with the Armed Forces of Azerbaijan or to restore order in Armenia itself, for no other purpose this base does not pull, accordingly Russia does not need it, but Armenia needs it as at least some real military tool ... Armenia has nothing, not resources, not an important geographic location, not people close in mentality, there is not even a sales market for its goods, Armenia sits on Russia's neck solely at a loss, not bringing anything useful, but only forcing conflicts with its neighbors in the region .. Someone will say this is our only ally! And how will this ally help us? They do not want to defend their land, what can we say about the land and interests of Russia .. This is a suitcase without a handle stuffed with selective Russophobic shit! And now our country has sent soldiers there to prevent the massacre ... Yes, to hell with them! Let them cut each other less at home they will do this! We have a border with Azerbaijan, well, it will be a bit bigger, so what? What will change then? Will there be any strains with Turkey? Why did it happen? We have cooperation in all areas in which Armenia is dust underfoot and no more .. Now is not the 19th century, the size of the country does not particularly affect the balance of power and threats. Well, in Syria, the operation is clear there, the prevention of the Qatari pipe on the market, the disposal of the barmalet far away from our territory, a training ground for the army, a base in a really important point of the world space, and a hint to all the countries of the region about their strength .. But in Armenia there is not a single one In addition to the dubious element of presence, with the same Turkey in Syria, we are quite doing business for ourselves, albeit harshly at times, Armenia, then why should we? What will we convey there that we cannot convey in the same Syria? By the way, at whose expense is this whole banquet? Okay, in Syria, as already said it is cost-effective, but then who will pay for all this? Armenians? Do not tell them tomorrow they will shoot in the back and mine roads in order to provoke a conflict with the other side, and Azerbaijan will not stop there either, they need the whole territory, and the Turks will not give a quiet life, like Israel and the rest of the "partners", this is peace there not needed ! They need a war there and with Russia, albeit in the person of peacekeepers .. And looking at all this is the question, why are our people there? What will pay off the coffins that come from there?
          1. businessv
            businessv 19 November 2020 20: 52
            -1
            Quote: max702
            There is nothing valuable in Armenia, not resources, not an important geographic location, not people close in mentality, there is not even a market for its goods, Armenia sits on Russia's neck exclusively at a loss, not bringing anything useful, but only forcing conflicts with its neighbors in the region .. Someone will say this is our only ally!
            You seem to be writing everything correctly, but this is only at first glance. Honestly, I wanted to answer your first post, changed my mind, and you again, but this one decided to insert my 5 kopecks. smile Thanks to people like you in the Russian government, today it has shrunk to a minimum over the past 100 years. Do you even remember how many lives were laid by Russia in the Caucasus? What do you think, for what purpose? Indeed, there are no resources, there is nothing "important", but then why are mattresses squeezing country after country around Russia? They have nothing else to do? Or are they just semi @ urki? You wrote about Syria. Do you think that only because of the benefits, ours stuck there? Earning money on blood? Do you know that approx. 2000 of our citizens? These are approximate data, but they are not encouraging. And the last - the Armenians are Christians, don't you think that we are simply obliged to help in a Christian way? hi
            1. max702
              max702 19 November 2020 21: 19
              +3
              You must understand that we are not shrinking, but concentrating! If earlier we were splayed fingers, now we are a clenched fist, and it will not be possible to take us as before .. We just put aside those who do not want to be with us and do not understand our aspirations of tasks.
              These weights were pulling us to the bottom and the current development of the country and especially the sharply increased standard of living in Russia speaks about this directly! The problem of previously laid lives is important, but today's lives are much more important, the Caucasus was previously vital for the sale of grain, the logistical component, and religion played a much larger role ... Today, let's be honest, religion is more a political tool, not a call of the heart and soul. I wrote everything about Syria and about the Barmaley too, we are really needed there and we are doing everything right, because it is necessary for us. I don’t see any arguments in the next war for the Caucasus, what was needed earlier is absolutely unnecessary and harmful now .. And I would not rush to help in a Christian way, enough help, so the question of the survival of our people is on the agenda, who would help us. .Not one of the 14 former republics wants to help us, all just GIVE! Therefore, it is not necessary to spray on those who do not appreciate it, but to put the house in order, work for decades ..
              1. matross
                matross 19 November 2020 23: 24
                0
                Quote: max702
                You must understand that we are not shrinking, but concentrating!

                Is this from a series about knees and lacing of ankle boots?
                Russia must and does have interests in all neighboring states. And influence. And also in many distant ones. This is called geopolitics. You have to pay for the status of a world power. Sometimes the lives of soldiers or diplomats. Otherwise, we will "concentrate" to the borders of the Moscow principality ...
                And nothing threatens the peacekeepers in Karabakh. 08.08.08 is still too recent past ...
              2. Jager
                Jager 19 November 2020 23: 30
                +4
                I, too, do not understand in any way "our aspirations and tasks" - playing big politics, putting a bolt on the inside. We have either wars or crises or Obama crap in the stairwell. Antisocial politics and falling living standards, that's what I see. But playing great strategists is much easier and more interesting than raking the Augean stables of internal issues in the country ...
              3. businessv
                businessv 19 November 2020 23: 41
                +1
                Quote: max702
                These weights were pulling us to the bottom and the current development of the country and especially the sharply increased standard of living in Russia speaks about this directly!
                I am embarrassed to ask about the development of the country Did you write here? Maxim, is your name not Oreshkin for an hour? Or what country are you writing about? Russia does not have its own machine-tool industry, 80% of enterprises, including high-tech ones, are closed and destroyed, Russia, in contrast to the Union, buys not only hardware for computers, but also software for them, even for the defense department! We already have 22 million citizens - beggars, and you are writing about an unprecedented rise in living standards !? Well, the republics were not always republics - until 1920 it was Russia, colleague! And the last - for your information: the population density of the Chukotka Autonomous Okrug of Russia is less than in the Sahara Desert! Well, as for the five, which, according to you, we were at the time of the Union, let me remind you that without the blessing of this five, nothing extraordinary happened in the world! Well, and the "concerns" and "regrets" of the current "kulak" are already a byword! hi
                1. max702
                  max702 20 November 2020 06: 51
                  +1
                  Another polymer worker .. Compared to the times of the RSFSR, we have an unprecedented rise in the standard of living not to see it, just not even blind, but paid .. I mean the life of an ordinary citizen. It was 14 weights that pulled to the bottom like the barbudos with cannibals all over the world .. With delirium about the fact that Russia does not produce anything, it’s not funny .. About Chukotka it’s not funny at all, you’ll go there in winter and understand what is better than sugar .. All that is now does our country absolutely right! The only complaint is not cynical and tough enough, and that is why sending peacekeepers is a big mistake ..
                  1. businessv
                    businessv 20 November 2020 19: 45
                    0
                    Quote: max702
                    The only complaint is not cynical and tough enough, and that is why sending peacekeepers is a big mistake ..
                    You, as I understand it, are a monomer? I sing what I see. Open your eyes, you may see more truth. Have you been outside the Moscow Ring Road for a long time? What you call
                    unprecedented growth in living standards
                    , called simply - evolution under capitalism, when 95% of the population has as much money - the same as the remaining 5%, as well as the means of production. And before yelling "hurray!", Demanding cynicism and harshness, you would not hurt to visit at least once in a hot spot
                    - Donbass, for example, at least in the role of a tourist, it diminished your desire to yell.
                    1. max702
                      max702 20 November 2020 22: 12
                      +3
                      Mozdok was enough for me .. And as for the rest of the successes for you, I dashed around the country and I wish you enough ..
                      1. businessv
                        businessv 21 November 2020 18: 26
                        0
                        Quote: max702
                        As for the rest, success to you, I have rolled around the country with plenty of what I wish you ..

                        Thank you, reciprocally, but the Former Union traveled far and wide, I think that's enough! Afgan was enough for me not to demand harshness and radicalism.
                2. Okolotochny
                  Okolotochny 23 November 2020 12: 36
                  -2
                  "Russia in contrast to the Union" .... The Union, in contrast to Russia, ensured its food security by 60%, Russia by 90%, although the level of 80% is recognized as critical. "Machine-tool building" - the Union of its citizens could not fully feed !!! 40% of the necessary food was purchased for oil and gas dollars.
                  1. businessv
                    businessv 23 November 2020 21: 58
                    0
                    Quote: Okolotochny
                    The Union of its citizens could not fully feed !!! 40% of the necessary food was purchased for oil and gas dollars.

                    Greetings, Alexey! Stop writing nonsense, you usually don't! Who cares, and it would not hurt you to look here: https://www.dairynews.ru/news/prodovolstvennaja_bezopasnost_rossijskoj_federacii.html or here: https://cyberleninka.ru/article/n/razvitie-osnov-prodovolstopsvennosty -v-predvoennye-gody / viewer Detailed research that is almost entirely provided with real data.
    7. Seal
      Seal 23 November 2020 11: 09
      0
      Another funny thing. Italian city Pisa recognized the independence of the Republic of Artsakh, reports the Armenian Embassy in Italy.
      "The Pisa City Council strongly condemned the aggression against Nagorno-Karabakh, expressed solidarity with the Armenian people and noted concern over the expansionist encroachments.", - noted in the message of the diplomatic mission on Facebook.
      http://www.russia-artsakh.ru/node/5868
      Well, now that's it, now the Armenians will heal, they were recognized in Pisa laughing laughing wink
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  2. Albay
    Albay 18 November 2020 17: 51
    +3
    90 percent of the recruits to the army of the so-called NKR are from Armenia. Units from Armenia were sent to help Karabakh more than once during the war. The most combat-ready units of the Armenian army were in Karabakh.
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 18 November 2020 21: 09
      +2
      Quote: Albay
      90 percent of the recruits to the army of the so-called NKR are from Armenia. Units from Armenia were sent to help Karabakh more than once during the war. The most combat-ready units of the Armenian army were in Karabakh.

      Karabakh men serve only in Karabakh, the rest throughout Armenia and in Karabakh. Basically, this is one army. The only thing is that the Khayestani people need to sign a voluntary agreement to serve in Karabakh.
      1. Albay
        Albay 19 November 2020 12: 34
        +1
        Well, in reality they would not be able to recruit the army of the NKR only from the Karabakh people. Let them let one hundred thousand inhabitants. How can they have an army of 40 thousand? This is unrealistic. In the Armenian preess, they wrote that the 3rd army corps from Armenia actively participated in the hostilities.
    2. vickul
      vickul 20 November 2020 06: 33
      +1
      If these were "The most efficient units of the Armenian army", you have no army.
  3. Fungus
    Fungus 18 November 2020 17: 52
    +9
    And it's scary to even imagine what could happen to him if he fell into the hands of an angry crowd of his compatriots. But until recently, they loved him so much.


    It’s not clear to me why this crowd didn’t move to defend Shusha, but screamed and jumped in the square.
    1. Revolver
      Revolver 18 November 2020 22: 22
      +8
      Quote: Fungus
      It’s not clear to me why this crowd didn’t move to defend Shusha, but screamed and jumped in the square.

      So in the square you can jump and shout to your heart's content. And at the front you can't jump and yell, your own people will be pulled up. And it also happens at the front that they kill, but do these Skakuas need it?
      1. gregoryivanov
        gregoryivanov 24 November 2020 03: 18
        +1
        At the front, in the trench, you jump - you will please the enemy sniper. laughing
    2. businessv
      businessv 19 November 2020 20: 58
      0
      Quote: Fungus
      It’s not clear to me why this crowd didn’t move to defend Shusha, but screamed and jumped in the square.
      Great question, Vityok! They say that the prime minister did not send everyone who wanted to fight there. We wrote about it here. I also think that yelling in the squares is safer, so there are more people who want to fight.
  4. paul3390
    paul3390 18 November 2020 17: 52
    11
    Actually, who prevented Armenia from realizing its own version of the north wind? Send the corps in full force on a long vacation and volunteer to Karabakh? There would be a desire ... But it just looks like it was not. Moreover, the Armenians had to immediately recognize Karabakh, and then it would be possible to act more officially.

    Of course, there was a threat to Turkey, but I don't think that Erdogan would have climbed in if the CSTO was present. Sooner or later, the Turks will have to beat out a tambourine, so why not now? Just a reason to turn up ..

    In general, this whole story is a vivid example of what happens when shitcrats and liberals come to power. And we need to pay close attention to this. For we also have enough liberals, and at the very top. And in a difficult time - they stopudovo fall into golim pashiny, surrendering their homeland.

    But most of all - now I do not envy Aliyev. For the Ottomans will no doubt present him with an invoice in the near future, and he will still have to be paid .. Is he ready to become the Pashalyk of Azerbaijan?
    1. Nasdaq
      Nasdaq 18 November 2020 18: 42
      +5
      The political leadership of Armenia did not want to go into direct conflict.
      Stupidly poured and propaganda to the people in the ears stupidly poured, like we are at war in full, immersion deeper and deeper.
      Pashinyan did not want to make unpopular decisions (according to Putin: initially Aliyev's demand at the negotiations was the surrender of 7 districts, that is, a safety belt, only then Shushi began to demand). Perhaps he believed that if he surrendered the territory without a fight, then his career would be over. And I probably decided to merge the territory in battle, like they did what they could, but alas. He was guided not by national interests, but by his own political interests.
  5. neri73-r
    neri73-r 18 November 2020 17: 57
    +3
    But until recently, they loved him so much.

    Popular love, it is so changeable .........
    1. Revolver
      Revolver 18 November 2020 22: 25
      0
      And now, give them the opportunity to fall in love. Characteristically, in a perverted form.
  6. tatarin1972
    tatarin1972 18 November 2020 17: 58
    +3
    “But not so long ago they loved him so much.” - from love to hate one step, and Pashinyan took it. Now let him scratch the "rear" and think that nothing "flew" there.
  7. napalm
    napalm 18 November 2020 18: 00
    +3
    One limiting factor, but a very important one - after all, Armenia is a member of the CSTO. And the authorities of both Armenia and Azerbaijan from Moscow could well have made it clear that they would not "flirt" and not cross new "red borders".
    Well, Putin also said that this is the land of Azerbaijan, and that Armenia did not recognize it. And that these are all consequences of the collapse of the USSR, and that Azerbaijan can choose any allies for itself. And he praised Turkey.
  8. bandabas
    bandabas 18 November 2020 18: 00
    0
    Many years later. The question is, why did this "multi-pass" start?
  9. Cottager452
    Cottager452 18 November 2020 18: 00
    +2
    If Armenia introduced reserves, it would eventually lose them, for that was the enemy's calculation in order to make the most of the advantages in manpower and, above all, in high-tech weapons.
    1. Lara Croft
      Lara Croft 18 November 2020 20: 33
      -1
      Quote: Summer Resident452
      If Armenia introduced reserves, it would eventually lose them, for that was the enemy's calculation in order to make the most of the advantages in manpower and, above all, in high-tech weapons.

      Armenia had to throw everything that was in battle, because Armenia itself would be defended by the Russian Federation, but for the Russian Federation, apparently Crimea is more expensive and sacred than the NKR for the Armenians, who were afraid of any side effects because of this, the Russian Federation was accepting Crimea and its peoples (who, after the collapse of the Union, wanted to return to the Russian Federation) was not afraid of sanctions from the "enlightened" West ...
      In this war, the Russian Federation, against the will of Armenia itself, did not allow the latter to perish and be dishonored ...
      The Russian Federation, sending its soldiers to the NKR risks more than anyone else in the region ...
      RF could not interfere in this conflict, tk. Armenia itself does not recognize the NKR as an independent state, and even more so as a part of Armenia, but Russia once again put it on justice, not on the law ...
      1. Pereira
        Pereira 19 November 2020 09: 33
        -1
        This was an attempt to prevent the Turks from entering Karabakh so that they would not hide military camps there from the bombing of the Russian Aerospace Forces.
        But Turkish camps for bandits will still appear in Karabakh.
        1. Lara Croft
          Lara Croft 19 November 2020 19: 48
          -2
          Quote: Pereira
          This was an attempt to prevent the Turks from entering Karabakh so that they would not hide military camps there from the bombing of the Russian Aerospace Forces.
          But Turkish camps for bandits will still appear in Karabakh.

          And what prevents the Russian Aerospace Forces from bombing militants in Karabakh, Azerbaijan, Georgia?
          1. vickul
            vickul 20 November 2020 06: 57
            0
            International law interferes, which, except for the Russian Federation, is not carried out by anyone.
            1. Lara Croft
              Lara Croft 20 November 2020 07: 14
              0
              Quote: vickul
              International law interferes, which, except for the Russian Federation, is not carried out by anyone.

              Well, if it is not fulfilled by anyone, then how does it interfere with the Russian Federation, the right to self-defense according to the UN Charter has not been canceled ...
      2. Jager
        Jager 19 November 2020 23: 41
        0
        Nobody cares about the law, only the law of force works there.
        And from what side of the Russian Federation should we fit in with Armenia? Surely the CSTO agreements say that "we will defend, but only from the aggression of third countries," and not when Armenia itself got in on its own.
        Crimea? The Kremlin didn't give a damn about the Crimeans either, or rather, it was a nice bonus to a strategically important area and bases, having lost which the Russian Federation lost the entire Black Sea, the Caucasus and the entire southern direction. The Russian Federation, together with Crimea, could take away all of eastern Ukraine at the same hour without a shot. But the potency was enough only for the Crimea.
  10. Lara Croft
    Lara Croft 18 November 2020 18: 03
    -9
    The Artsakh Defense Army, local militias and volunteers from Armenia who came to their aid stood up to defend the unrecognized republic and its people. Despite the quantitative and technical superiority of Azerbaijan, they continued to fight as long as they could. Although the maximum that they were theoretically capable of was to hold out for several days until the main forces arrived, which Karabakh never received.

    The NKR did not want to defend Armenia, the numerous diasporas around the world did not want to defend Armenia, the question is - what are the Russian troops doing in the NKR?
    Putin sent the 15th MRBR. (peacekeeping) in NKR added another 2 thousand potential prisoners of war to the already existing 4 thousand in Armenia itself ...
    There is only one airfield capable of receiving all types of aircraft in Armenia (runway with asphalt surface), there is only one road from Armenia to NKR, what is such an extreme over our airfield?
    In five years there will be a lot of reasons to turn our w / sl life into hell, both in NKR itself and in Armenia ...
    1. nnm
      nnm 18 November 2020 18: 12
      +8
      Quote: Lara Croft
      In five years there will be a lot of reasons to turn our w / sl life into hell, both in NKR itself and in Armenia ...

      It is simply that a decision is made to withdraw the peacekeepers (even a hint is made at it) and the organizers of "hell" quickly disappear. For then Armenia will lose the NKR completely. And if you are hinting at hell on the part of Azerbaijan-Turkey, then provoking a war with Russia is also a very dubious pleasure for them. And we have a common border with Azerbaijan itself. So logistics does not consist of just 1 road in this case.
      1. Lara Croft
        Lara Croft 18 November 2020 18: 27
        -9
        Quote: nnm
        It is just that a decision is made to withdraw the peacekeepers (even a hint is made at it) and the organizers of "hell" quickly disappear. For then Armenia will lose the NKR completely.

        Tell this to the soldiers and officers of the USSR Internal Troops ...
        And if you are hinting at hell on the part of Azerbaijan-Turkey, then provoking a war with Russia for them is also a very dubious pleasure.

        Well, the Turkomans shot down our Su-24 in the SAR, they will arrange hell ... and the general forces of the Russian Federation of Turkey will not do anything ...
        And with Azerbaijan itself we have a common border. So logistics does not consist of just 1 road in this case.

        There are many roads, from Georgia to Russia, for example, two. Do numerous autobahns lead from Azerbaijan to Russia?
    2. Dimon71
      Dimon71 18 November 2020 18: 34
      +5
      In Georgia, Sahak has already turned the result of the Russian Federation into hell !!!!
  11. CommanderDIVA
    CommanderDIVA 18 November 2020 18: 09
    +2
    "It turns out that the army equipped with modern weapons was simply inactive" - ​​and what modern weapons do Armenians have there? Four purchased Su-30s, as the media now write without air-to-air missiles? From my sofa, if the Armenian army got involved in battles with Azerbaijan, then the Turks and Azerbaijanis would have burned fires on the outskirts of Yerevan, they did the right thing that they saved the army, it will still come in handy for the Armenians, for one beaten they give two unbeaten
    1. nnm
      nnm 18 November 2020 18: 15
      +3
      They would not burn anything. Initially, it was said that the CSTO would take retaliatory actions in case of violation of Armenia's sovereignty.
      1. Cottager452
        Cottager452 18 November 2020 18: 27
        +7
        The CSTO makes decisions collegially, and I strongly doubt that the majority would be in favor. We would have found a reason not to interfere, and Russia, apparently, knew these sentiments in advance.
      2. CommanderDIVA
        CommanderDIVA 18 November 2020 18: 28
        +6
        When and by whom was it said? This is spelled out in the agreements, but in my opinion the GDP did not say this during the conflict, Erdogan could have been brought in at the bends of big politics on the way to Yerevan, perhaps your belief in the almighty CSTO is exaggerated, there were no precedents when a CSTO member was attacked and earned If there is a mechanism for protecting a member of this organization, it is difficult for me to imagine the CSTO troops, well, the same Kazakhs or Tajiks fighting for Armenians against Turks and Azerbaijanis on the Armenian-Azerbaijani border
        1. nnm
          nnm 18 November 2020 19: 21
          -1
          Please: https://ria-ru.turbopages.org/turbo/ria.ru/s/20201008/karabakh-1578859528.html
          1. CommanderDIVA
            CommanderDIVA 18 November 2020 19: 32
            0
            These are just the words of the CSTO Secretary General Stanislav Zas - a Belarusian military and statesman, but not VVP or at least Lavrov or Shoigu, so no one from the CSTO members would have gone to defend the Armenians, except ours in Gyumri, who already set up watchdog posts with Russian flags on the Armenian-Azerbaijani border, preventing the entry of Turks and Azerbaijanis into Armenian territory
            1. nnm
              nnm 18 November 2020 19: 38
              -1
              "only"??!! Is this just an empty space in your opinion, or do you think that he accidentally and simply because it hit him in the head, makes such statements? And the fact that no one disavowed them prompts any thoughts?)))
              What does Lavrov and Putin have to do with it? Speech about the CSTO treaty and statements should be made formally by this organization. And not Putin and Lavrov, because then this statement is not a bloc, but one country.
              By the way, I found specifically at your request a statement from Himself))):
              https://rbc-ru.turbopages.org/turbo/rbc.ru/s/rbcfreenews/5f7d8a7b9a79476de9696ad6
              1. CommanderDIVA
                CommanderDIVA 18 November 2020 19: 53
                +2
                I do not believe that the Armenians on the approaches to Yerevan would be defended by Belarusians, Kazakhs, Tajiks and Kyrgyz, declare this one thing, but really do it another, perhaps the introduction of our peacekeepers to Karabakh did not let everyone understand that the CSTO is a nominal organization
                1. Pereira
                  Pereira 19 November 2020 09: 36
                  0
                  Nominal. For multi-vector.
                  But considering that everything is multi-vector, except for the recovering Lukashenko, you are right - nominal.
        2. Jager
          Jager 19 November 2020 23: 47
          0
          Soros would have watched this "friendship of peoples" with admiration at this time, chewing on popcorn on his villa balcony.
      3. Avior
        Avior 19 November 2020 10: 58
        +1
        The CSTO is in case of an attack on Armenia.
        And not in case Armenia attacked someone
    2. Pereira
      Pereira 19 November 2020 09: 34
      0
      The army will no longer be useful to the Armenians. Who to fight with? Perhaps with Georgia.
  12. xomaNN
    xomaNN 18 November 2020 18: 12
    +7
    Yes, the very fact that Armenia has NOT diplomatically recognized Karabakh for 30 years is remarkable! So they "threw" their arm .. tops long before 2020
    1. Cottager452
      Cottager452 18 November 2020 18: 21
      0
      In fact, everyone threw them, except for Russia, of course.
    2. Altona
      Altona 18 November 2020 18: 35
      +2
      Quote: xomaNN
      So they "threw" their arm .. tops long before 2020

      --------------------------
      The Armenian elite, like all other elite in the post-Soviet space, were concerned about their own enrichment and the creation of a "dynastic" inheritance of power. How "new oil" and "new slaves" live there is of little interest to them.
  13. rocket757
    rocket757 18 November 2020 18: 20
    +2
    The crowd cannot plead guilty to their troubles !!!
    This is so banal that it will not become at least as interesting as it may be. YOURSELF!
  14. parusnik
    parusnik 18 November 2020 18: 20
    +1
    But until recently, they loved him so much.
    ...It's one step from love to hatred. Pashinyan made it.
  15. Hello from Baku
    Hello from Baku 18 November 2020 18: 23
    +3
    Andranik Kocharian, a deputy from the ruling My Step bloc, said: "There is practically no army, they are just armed people."
    Where is she?
  16. Dimon71
    Dimon71 18 November 2020 18: 30
    +1
    Units and corps were not sent to the NKR. So it is. Individual officers fought. And what about Pegov? Pegov told and showed what happened. The last NKR warriors from Shushi were taken away by the RF MS in the amount of 12 people on November 14, although the official authorities said that there was not a single NKR soldier in Shushi. To which Pegov said that the soldiers in Shushi still remain. And so it happened !!!!
  17. Altona
    Altona 18 November 2020 18: 32
    +5
    In this case, the battle for Artsakh for Armenians has an existential meaning, it is simply a struggle for the survival of the Armenians there. And using Artsakh in a geopolitical "exchange", that is, trying to "change the empire", Russia to the United States is at least naive, at the most dangerous. Turkey claims a special regional mission in the region, considers itself a regional superpower and will squeeze out competitors for influence. In addition, Yerevan's passive observation of its surroundings looks rather strange, as Turkey crushes Tbilisi through Ajaria, closing Armenia into an unfriendly ring. With all this, Armenia has the most gigantic American embassy in the post-Soviet space, has the largest Armenian lobby in France, and these geopolitical levers are in no way used outside. Apparently, this Armenian lobby is used to change the conditional pro-Moscow Sargsyans for the conditional pro-democratic Pashinyans. Along the way, receiving splashes from the eternal rival of Israel. In general, I had to try hard to get all the possible bumps on my head.
  18. Otshelnik
    Otshelnik 18 November 2020 18: 33
    +9
    In the sense that the 70 thousand population of Karabakh had a 40 thousand army with C300, With Elbrus, with tornadoes, with 300 tanks, etc. ... the author lost his logic somewhere along the way!)
    1. maktub
      maktub 18 November 2020 18: 55
      +4
      With language removed. laughing
      I wanted to ask whose S-300 is this, Tornadoes, The dots on the video were burned by the Azeybardzhans?
      How many l / s of the Armenian army will be missing?
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 18 November 2020 19: 27
        +4
        They also forgot the Tor M2 on the Kamaz chassis - these machines were transferred exclusively to the Armenian Armed Forces - but this complex ended up in Karabakh, where it was gouged by drones and aviation of Azerbaijan.
    2. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 19 November 2020 01: 28
      +1
      Quite right. There is a proportion (worldwide): the regular army cannot be larger
      1-2% of the population. 40 thousand population cannot exhibit more than one regular
      battalion of fighters.
      1. vch62388
        vch62388 19 November 2020 09: 10
        +3
        This is in peacetime. With total mobilization, the Germans estimated their potential at 20% of the population (though this is with all sorts of Volksstums, Hitler Youths, etc.). In 1941-45 in the Red Army, the NKVD troops, etc. about 24 million (almost 10%) were called up, by 1945 shoulder straps were worn approx. 11 million, of which about half are in the active army. Although the mob. almost the entire resource was selected, the year of birth was called in 1928. In my opinion, 10% is the threshold of the mobilization capabilities of the people. And in peacetime, yes, 2% is the limit for the economy (see USSR in the 80s, 6 million servicemen per 300 million population). True, I'm not saying that these percentages need to be armed, clothed, fed, treated, transported, etc.
        And so, yes, 40 thousand of the population is not enough for the defense of Karabakh, undoubtedly there were servicemen of the Armed Forces of Armenia.
    3. Konnick
      Konnick 19 November 2020 08: 57
      +1
      Logic got lost on the road ... And on it there are many corpses on the side of the road when our column of peacekeepers passed. These are deserters or the defeat of the next column of the Armed Forces of Armenia, which followed to the war. Not like deserters, helmets and uniforms.
  19. Growlers
    Growlers 18 November 2020 18: 58
    +3
    The question is how Pashinyan and his entourage understand the interests of Armenia. If it is a sovereign independent state then this is one option. But I think so we have a completely different case. Pashinyan and his entourage see their service to the interests of a completely different state. This is a very common trend lately. So the same head of Germany serves the interests of the United States more than his own country. What then can we say about such "powers as Poland, Bulgaria, Ukraine and the Tribaltic poverty ... So Pashinyan is not original. Apparently until the last moment he hoped that it would rumble overseas and Turkey and Azerbaijan would run away with their tail between their legs ... ..and someone like Psaki will drive an aircraft carrier to the shores of sunny Armenia
  20. Catfish
    Catfish 18 November 2020 19: 25
    0
    But until recently, they loved him so much.

    “The priest had a dog - he loved her.
    She ate a piece of meat - he killed her. "(C)
    Everything was already once.
  21. north 2
    north 2 18 November 2020 19: 59
    +1
    Russia has given Armenia an excellent example. For several years, enclaves in Kaliningrad and Crimea Russia
    turned into impregnable fortresses. And Armenia for thirty years not only did not recognize the independence of NK in order to include it in Armenia and defend it as its full-fledged territory, but after winning the first conflict, it did not create there no matter how serious modern fortifications. But in thirty years she could have placed all these fortifications and protective areas of NK even underground, not just on the ground. And Armenia should have done this even before the pro-American Pashanian came to power. Okay, civilians, but after all, during all this time there was also about the Armenian Defense Ministry, generals. And there was someone to take an example from. In a word, with Armenia to all countries in the CSTO and most importantly Russia, oh, how many troubles there will be, and only defend it, and if suddenly there is a problem, then Armenia will not come to defend others in the CSTO, with such and such a civil power there and with such a military with such an army.
  22. 7,62h54
    7,62h54 18 November 2020 20: 03
    +4
    Nicolas has faithfully fulfilled his Soros Grant. But this is not yet the very bottom for Armenia, something else will happen this year.
  23. sabakina
    sabakina 18 November 2020 20: 13
    0
    “To betray in time is not to betray. Anticipate it! ”
    If Pashinyan had followed this rule, he would have lost a couple of entire districts. But he has what he has ...
  24. The comment was deleted.
  25. north 2
    north 2 18 November 2020 20: 38
    +1
    Quote: Sea Cat
    But until recently, they loved him so much.

    “The priest had a dog - he loved her.
    She ate a piece of meat - he killed her. "(C)
    Everything was already once.

    yes, do not insult the beautiful creation of the dog, comparing it with the Pashanians. Here's how to really talk about the relationship between people and dogs:
    I had a dog - I loved her.
    She ate a piece of meat - I loved her.
    She pissed on the rug - I loved her.
    She tore both my slippers - I loved her.
    And I said to that dog, - you see, I endure everything.
    And the dog told me, - I love you ...
    1. Polite Moose
      Polite Moose 18 November 2020 23: 59
      -1
      Quote: north 2
      Here's how to really talk about the relationship between people and dogs:

      Here is another option:
      The priest had a dog
      Pop as I could loved her
      She ate a piece of meat
      He killed her immediately
      A very important piece of meat
      Bitten off by an insidious beast
      And without this piece
      Pop won't marry now

      PS It all depends on how much it hurt from the deed. I believe that Pashinyan will soon go on an exciting journey with elements of eroticism.
  26. faterdom
    faterdom 18 November 2020 21: 06
    +1
    Everything falls into place perfectly if you stop considering Pashinyan as an independent figure, and see in him a puppet of finance capital, which was important to drive Russia into a trap.
    And, while it is not over yet, at least the expenses, both financial and image, we bear and will bear.
    Oddly enough, both sides of the conflict, but what are both, three! We "stole the victory" from both sides, and that everything is at our budgetary expense - don't go to the grandmother. They have financial claims to each other, but we are kind.
    By the way, nobody cares about the fate of Karabakh itself, from Pashinyan puppeteers and "influential diasporas" to, oddly enough, Turks and Azerbaijanis. The latter have a choice either to be accused of genocide, or to somehow manage the occupied population that hates the regime, which is not sugar for any and more influential and wealthy country.
    So, Russia gets another isolated enclave "mandated territory".
    Which, by the way, can be done with a plus: wait for tales about "war as in war" about our downed helicopter, and even recognize Karabakh as a separate state, with a single currency, legal framework and citizenship, united by armed forces with Russia ...
    Of course, everyone does not recognize him, wrinkles his nose ... but the NKR, together with South Ossetia, can create a military bloc with the DPR / LPR and help in their liberation from the occupation by the Bandera-bandit regime.
  27. Andrey Novoseltsev
    Andrey Novoseltsev 18 November 2020 22: 52
    0
    Azerbaijan did not win. Armenia did not lose. Azerbaijan was supported. And Artsakh was betrayed
    1. Polite Moose
      Polite Moose 19 November 2020 00: 06
      +1
      Quote: Andrey Novoseltsev
      Azerbaijan did not win. Armenia did not lose. Azerbaijan was supported. And Artsakh was betrayed

      And one bearded switchman is to blame for everything (he is the Moor who did his job).
    2. Shiden
      Shiden 19 November 2020 00: 21
      -3
      Quote: Andrey Novoseltsev
      Azerbaijan did not win. Armenia did not lose. Azerbaijan was supported. And Artsakh was betrayed

      You are greatly mistaken here. Azerbaijan and Turkey, following the signed agreements, are just in pluses. Armenia lost, and there is no need to hang all the blame on Pashinyan, the whole politics of Armenia is to blame. But Russia will not envy. Speaking figuratively with the hands of Moscow, the Armenians will be forced to leave Karabakh with such a multi-move.
      1. Herman 4223
        Herman 4223 19 November 2020 09: 46
        0
        They will remain there by the hands of Moscow and will be protected for some time.
  28. high
    high 19 November 2020 06: 02
    -8
    For the first time in 2 centuries, Turkish troops ended up in the Caucasus, apparently, this is the largest defeat for Russia.
    For 2 centuries, Russia and the Soviet Union prevented the appearance of foreign troops in the Caucasus, but in the 21st century this happened.
    Armenia had no chance to avoid defeat against the troops of Azerbaijan and Turkey, with Russia's inaction ...
  29. Sergey Grishechkin
    Sergey Grishechkin 19 November 2020 06: 15
    +1
    Betrayal of top management and elites. This is the state when "the people and the party" are not united. And this is the result ...
  30. Valentin spagis
    Valentin spagis 19 November 2020 07: 35
    +2
    Everything is simple with Armenia. The Americans organized the draining of Karabakh. To begin with, they brought to power the orange Pashinyan, who began to engage in Russian phobia. Launched 2.000 American advisers to Armenia, opened Soros institutions, arrested pro-Russian leaders, banned Russian TV channels. But the Americans do not need Armenian problems. Therefore, they helped Pashinyan to organize the drain of Karabakh. With their submission, he portrayed a stormy activity for allegedly protecting, but in reality he did nothing to defend Karabakh.
  31. Old tanker
    Old tanker 19 November 2020 07: 38
    +1
    All conspiracy theories aside, everything is simple. Legally, Karabakh is the territory of Azerbaijan. And this is recognized by Yerevan itself. Therefore, the official entry of units of the Armenian army into the NKR is an act of aggression against Azerbaijan. Accordingly, the CSTO will no longer fit for Armenia, and Aliyev will have at least a free hand to break through the corridor to Nakhichevan, and there it will go like a suit.
    Pashinyan is a populist, but not a fool.
  32. Butchcassidy
    Butchcassidy 19 November 2020 08: 27
    +1
    The task of winning under the leadership of Pashinyan was never set, he dispersed the competent generals, not loyal to him personally, the same with the National Security Service.
  33. Alexander Vorontsov
    Alexander Vorontsov 19 November 2020 08: 35
    0
    The full-scale use of the army would be a pretext for a full-scale war, not on the territory of Karabakh, but on the entire border. Strikes would also be delivered on the territory of Armenia.
    At the same time, there is a high probability that the country would legally withdraw from the CSTO treaty because would formally attack itself. And then, in simple terms, it would simply be torn.
  34. Konnick
    Konnick 19 November 2020 08: 48
    +1
    Quote: Altona
    In this case, the battle for Artsakh for Armenians has an existential meaning, it is simply a struggle for the survival of the Armenians there.

    For the Armenians, the recognition of the genocide, and more specifically, the monetary compensation from Turkey, has "existential meaning". And it has nothing to do with the struggle for the survival of the Armenians there. If they fought for survival, they would have fought to the death, and this is just the rallies and accusations of Russia of complicity with the Turks.
  35. Herman 4223
    Herman 4223 19 November 2020 09: 21
    0
    Okay, they didn't send the army, why didn't they help with the means to combat the drones? They already exist and they are not necessarily complex. At least anti-drone guns. There are many variations of them in the world, and I'm not talking about those that the copters catch with the net. Why did Armenian drones only appear at the end of the war, when there was essentially no artillery? Even personnel with ATGMs are very few, they were also not enough, as I understand them.
  36. nobody75
    nobody75 19 November 2020 10: 14
    -1
    I think there is a split in the leadership of Armenia. After the "victorious" war, the question arose before Yerevan - What to do with Karabakh? From the economic point of view, the value of Karabakh is zero, and the Armenians were not ready to invest in the restoration of the destroyed infrastructure, since the entire Karabakh "elite" left abroad or to Yerevan. For 30 years of sitting in "Hakob", "Karabakh Franchise" has lost its attractiveness in the eyes of ordinary Armenians ... Those who wish can ask what "Armenian casserole" is, and a "vote" at the extreme elections to the Armenian parliament cost 30 loaves of bread ... With the coming to power of Pashinyan, the Artsakh leadership demonstratively distanced itself from Yerevan, continuing to do business as usual with representatives of the "Karabakh clan" who remained in power or at various feeding troughs. Pashinyan, as you understand, did not like all this very much ... It turned out to be a kind of "balance": Artsakh did not want Yerevan to interfere in its "affairs", and Yerevan was so absorbed in its internal political agenda that it forgot to replenish the cropped MAD on the line demarcation between Artsakh and Azerbaijan. From the above point of view, it becomes clear that Yerevan's unwillingness to enter into battle the army corps mobilized on the territory of Armenia. No, Pashinyan did not want his country to be defeated. He wanted the Karabakh people to be "killed" ... And after that the Victorious Armenian Army ... But Russia did not want the overthrow of Aliyev, which would surely follow after that.
    Sincerely
    1. karima
      karima 20 November 2020 00: 03
      0
      Quote: nobody75
      From an economic point of view, the value of Karabakh is zero
      You are very wrong, and the evidence of this is the Swiss firms that worked in Karabakh. Here is the answer to why Armenia did not annex Karabakh. Local authorities covered it, but they didn't want to share it with Armenia. IMHO of course.
      1. nobody75
        nobody75 20 November 2020 13: 21
        -1
        Local authorities covered it, but they didn't want to share it with Armenia. IMHO of course.

        Where am I wrong? As always - "gray" schemes are beneficial to all participants, and state building - to no one ...
        We are waiting for your appeals to international courts to read the statements of claim.
        Sincerely
        1. karima
          karima 20 November 2020 16: 22
          0
          Quote: nobody75
          Where am I wrong?
          You are mistaken in:
          Quote: nobody75
          From an economic point of view, the value of Karabakh is zero
          Quote: nobody75
          We are waiting for your appeals to international courts
          Well wait, good luck ...
          Sincerely
  37. VLADIMIR VLADIVOSTOK
    VLADIMIR VLADIVOSTOK 19 November 2020 11: 20
    0
    It seems they just wanted to get by with a little blood. If the Armenians had sent selected combat units, it is possible that the conflict could develop into a major regional war! Losses by losses, but somehow the situation will settle down! It looks like Turkey provoked the conflict, but no one knew how to stop! Yerevan and Baku don't need a big war! Ankara stands for Baku, but who will fit in for Yerevan is a question! Will fit it yes! But the consequences? Russia hesitated to the last, and the United States did not seem to itch at all! It looks like Brest Peace! Ho and with a bad ending, but stop the war!
  38. Avior
    Avior 19 November 2020 11: 25
    +1
    some Armenians and Pegov, who joined them, continue to live in a world of illusions about the possibility of Armenia to win this war.
    The chances of this actually being nil.
    Although Pashinyan was at the head of Armenia, at least someone else.
    Azerbaijan is many times over economically superior to Armenia, but to the Armenians it is somehow poorly understood until now.
    There was a moment 30 years ago when Armenia was superior to Azerbaijan in military terms, and Armenia took advantage of this.
    but the understanding that the situation had changed dramatically did not come.
    It has long been necessary to come to an agreement with Azerbaijan, it would have been completely different conditions.
    but the Armenians preferred to close their eyes to the fact that the situation in Armenia is getting worse and in Azerbaijan everything is getting better.
    And it is a matter of time when Azerbaijan realizes its economic superiority in the military.
    They closed up.
    The CSTO and Russia covered Armenia from attack, but no one was going to fight if Armenia attacked someone.
    The Armenians knew this very well, therefore, for 30 years, Karabakh was not recognized, since this automatically led to the war between Armenia and Azerbaijan without the cover of the CSTO and Russia, which is like death for Armenia with its half-killed economy.
    Therefore, their army could be used very limitedly. However, Azerbaijan was ready for a full-fledged war, there were enough reserves, and the Armenians knew this very well too.
    another thing is that Pashinyan became a hostage to the situation when the Armenians could no longer hold the territory of Azerbaijan, as before, but for the most part they did not believe it ...
    1. nobody75
      nobody75 19 November 2020 19: 23
      -1
      And it is a matter of time when Azerbaijan realizes its economic superiority in the military.

      Do you understand that now Azerbaijan is moving into the future along the line of a razor. And all because of this war ... Armenia by itself is not needed by anyone ... Neither with Karabakh - nor without it. And Azerbaijan?
      Sincerely
      1. Avior
        Avior 19 November 2020 19: 48
        -1
        And what kind of razor is this war?
        1. nobody75
          nobody75 19 November 2020 20: 21
          -1
          You see ... Knowing Aliyev - the youngest, I am sure that he will declare himself a great leader and commander ... and throw the Turks ... Erdagan understands that he was given a ride with the peacekeepers, so he is preparing a conspiracy to overthrow him with the CIA .. . About this Naryshkin transparently hinted. And without Aliyev, your leaders will gladly cling to each other's throats, as it was before the war.
          Sincerely
          1. Rubina
            Rubina 21 November 2020 09: 31
            0
            Well, well, Erdogan has already been overthrown by the CIA and what came of it? If the people do not want, no external forces can arrange a coup in the country
            1. nobody75
              nobody75 21 November 2020 09: 37
              -1
              Was Erdogan able to convince the people that the Descendants of the Prophet lived in Adjara until recently?
              Sincerely
              1. nobody75
                nobody75 21 November 2020 14: 37
                -1
                By the way, Shoigu and Lavrov took up shuttle diplomacy. I personally associate the composition of the delegation with two versions (compatible) of the development of events. The presence of Novak and the former deputy Mishustin in the delegation may mean that they decided to change Pashinyan to the head of Gazprom - Armenia, or maybe it is about establishing the North-South transport corridor ... One thing does not exclude the other ...
                Sincerely
  39. SHAH
    SHAH 19 November 2020 12: 25
    0
    It cannot be that Armenia does not send soldiers, it is nonsense that they were there and fought. But this alone did not help.
  40. Egor53
    Egor53 19 November 2020 13: 13
    0
    No complicated explanation needed.
    The Armenians, as a people, were simply afraid.
    What do you mean "sat in the barracks and waited for the order"?
    It would be enough for ONE Armenian general, or even a colonel, to throw a cry: Let's go to the defense of Karabakh! And the entire Armenian army, which is about 40 thousand bayonets, would be in Karabakh in 2 days. And then Shusha would have remained Armenian, and peace would have been concluded on completely different conditions.
    The Armenians just cowardly waited for the Russians to fit in for them. And they waited cowardly both in Armenia and in the diasporas.
    The Armenians are too accustomed to ride to heaven on someone else's horseradish. And they all over the world have succeeded in doing this for centuries. And then the bummer came out.
    1. Avior
      Avior 19 November 2020 19: 52
      +1
      In fact, one corps out of five fought in Azerbaijan.
      The other four were waiting for just the case you described.
      Peace would be concluded with the Azerbaijani troops near Yerevan, and indeed, on different conditions
      And the Armenians are well aware of this, so the troops did not go, they are just brave after the fight now.
      hi
      1. nobody75
        nobody75 19 November 2020 20: 23
        -1
        Where were they waiting? Now show the map?
        Sincerely
    2. nobody75
      nobody75 19 November 2020 20: 22
      -1
      Truth is a mystery. Always a secret. There are no obvious truths
      A. Platonov
    3. vch62388
      vch62388 20 November 2020 08: 00
      0
      The call in the army was thrown in the 13th century, when the conditional prince could lead / withdraw his squad. In the current conditions, units and formations are subordinate (should obey) a higher headquarters.
      How do you imagine that at the conditional cry of a certain colonel, a motorized rifle brigade in the Kaliningrad region begins to make certain movements with redeployment? There is a team - we are moving forward, no - they froze like mice.
  41. Boris ⁣ Shaver
    Boris ⁣ Shaver 19 November 2020 15: 46
    -1
    surrendered Karabakh to Azerbaijan, accused Russia of not intervening

    The point is not only and not so much in the accusation. Russia was the guarantor of Armenia’s security while Azerbaijan had claims to it. Now there are no more complaints and no "guards" are required anymore. Vova Putin in a recent commentary recalled the Armenian genocide for good reason. Now we are trying to show that Turkey may not stop at Karabakh and Armenia, they say, still needs us. But this is a rather illusive position, especially taking into account the course of Armenia towards new "guarantors". The five-year term of our peacekeepers will end pretty quickly, and whether the parties deign to leave them there for the next five-year period is a very interesting question.
  42. karima
    karima 20 November 2020 00: 27
    -1
    Until now, not a single Turkish soldier has been found who fought in Karabakh for Baku. And now they won't.
    The war of liberation of Karabakh was brilliantly carried out by the Azerbaijani establishment, Erdogan got on a passing carriage, which is still useful for Baku.
    But winning the battle does not mean that you won the war. And therefore, the presence of the military of both Russia and Turkey in the territory of Azerbaijan is most useful today in Baku.
    All the big and small players in the region got excited, and there are three (big) ones. And everyone has their own interests and problems. It was important for Turkey to have time to jump on the victorious chariot, in anticipation of the subsequent struggle with the Kurds and Syrians, but it is inevitable. It is extremely important for Russia to show and prove its weight in the region, too many pens were rubbed under the tables, inspired by the victory of Baku. But, most importantly, Iran's action put everyone on their ears. By pushing the IRGC forces to the border, Iran told its Azerbaijanis and northern neighbors - we will fight. So, while the troops of Russia and Turkey will save Azerbaijan from Iranian encroachments. Another brilliant move by Aliyev. I hope he doesn't get dizzy with success. It's just a pleasure to watch him move.
    And the Armenian army? Krylov probably wrote about her: "And you friends, how do you not sit down ...".
    IMHO naturally.
    1. nobody75
      nobody75 20 November 2020 20: 55
      0
      A brilliant operation performed by ... But by whom? Remember what I promised your fellow countrymen in October?
      I posted this clip, but they didn’t believe me ... Now they will pass away from shame ...

      Russia, which has deployed troops in Karabakh, will strengthen its influence on Azerbaijan. In the future, since the region has been transferred under the control of the Russian peacekeeping forces, Azerbaijan will not be able to carry out the slightest political interference in Karabakh. Russia will be able to reconstruct Karabakh at its discretion, change its demographic structure, and arm the Armenian population. Although Putin, in order not to give cause for concern, in an interview with the Russian state TV channel made a statement: “According to international law, Karabakh has always been a part of Azerbaijan,” Russia has already set its sights on changing the demographic structure and, for this purpose, has created an assistance and rehabilitation center that will facilitate the return of Armenians who left the region to Karabakh. In the future, Baku will always be concerned that the Kremlin can grant Karabakh the status of an independent state, and build its relations with Russia depending on this factor.
      - From an interview with Sukru Elekdag, the former Turkish ambassador to Washington
      Sincerely
    2. Olezhek
      Olezhek 21 November 2020 08: 13
      +1
      And therefore, the presence of the military of both Russia and Turkey on the territory of Azerbaijan is most useful today in Baku.


      But this is "how to say" request
  43. gohomeyanki
    gohomeyanki 20 November 2020 04: 04
    +2
    it seems to me everything is easier Pashinyan defeated his opponents and kept his army loyal to himself.
    ... And he will not go anywhere, at least in the near future, but in a dozen years, perhaps we will see him in Ukraine. Well, or the West, after all, he is a greater friend than Saakashvili.

    1. Pashinyan always said that the troubles of Armenia were due to the Karabakh conflict, which ruled over Armenia, and began persecution. These are essentially his enemies.
    2. He did not want to surrender territories himself, he wanted to play Win-Win:
    If it loses, then it's all Russia is a traitor,
    If he wins, then he is the winner, and not some kind of Russia.

    3. He agreed to what they lost to give, but not to take responsibility for surrendering more than they lost, well, it's bad to surrender territories without a fight for the rating. Moreover, the battle of your opponents.
    4. He did not send his army, which means he saved their lives and they will owe him. In general, he did not merge his faithful army, while sending the Karabakh people to the war. By the way, he changed the leadership of the army, and it was his people there.

    TOTAL, it was Aliyev who agreed, without putting forward new conditions for surrender.
    1. Grandfather Mykola
      Grandfather Mykola 20 November 2020 21: 17
      +1
      In fact, Pashinyan could not have done anything. The people of Armenia have been brainwashed by nationalist propaganda all the previous 28 years. Any concession without a fight would be perceived as a betrayal. And all this was done by the Karabakh clan, which plundered the budget, powdered the brains of people and did nothing for the army. And the conventional "West" does not like any kind of occupation and exacerbation. Nobody needs Armenia as an occupier, and no one was going to defend it.
      1. gohomeyanki
        gohomeyanki 21 November 2020 02: 19
        0
        he could still fight by sending his army ...
        well imagine:
        Your boss (in this case, Pashinyan). Says you ok, go fight our enemies, I will help you, with all that I have, I will lay my bones.
        In general, you went to fight, fight with another boss and his people, and your boss is standing nearby and in general does nothing, but the reason why he does nothing is because you once stole something there, as the boss thinks ...
        You, of course, a radish, stole something there and did nothing at work.

        but how would you treat such a boss ?? ))
  44. Molot1979
    Molot1979 20 November 2020 07: 29
    0
    Because Pashinyan ultimately commanded this corps. And Pashinyan's main enemy is not Baku, but the "Karabakh clan". What is easier - to deal with the enemy by eliminating Karabakh itself. Well, you will think that national betrayal will be trampled and resigned.
  45. Begunok
    Begunok 20 November 2020 20: 09
    0
    Why Armenia did not send an army corps to the rescue of the Karabakh army

    Soros did not allow Pashinyan ... They waited for Russia to intercede, but they did not wait, but everything was still ahead. Pashinyan began a sweep in Yerevan, he received the order to stay in power .. The goal was to pit Russia and Turkey in the Caucasus, then involve Iran, etc. etc.
    Who benefits?
    1. Grandfather Mykola
      Grandfather Mykola 21 November 2020 10: 35
      0
      Right now, Trump is also bringing down everything on Soros. It was the Rothschilds a couple of years ago. You are confused.
  46. Grandfather Mykola
    Grandfather Mykola 20 November 2020 21: 06
    +1
    How did you not send it? Have you seen the lists of the dead? There, 90 percent of them are conscripts of 18-20 years old. From those approximately 70.000 that were actually in NK, 2–3 thousand could have been drafted, and the actual strength of the "Artsakh army" was about 30.000. And in terms of the number of armored vehicles, it is three times greater than the entire army of the rest of Armenia. What else could they throw? And in fact, a lot cannot be thrown along a single road. That's the whole secret.
  47. Borka
    Borka 21 November 2020 02: 05
    0
    Semyon Pegov is a biased, corrupt journalist. It seems to me that he was best at licking the shoes of his Armenian leader. If Pegov was a little smarter, then at least for the sake of appearance he could portray an impartial nature.
  48. Seal
    Seal 23 November 2020 10: 56
    0
    Quote: businessv
    but then why do mattresses squeeze country after country around Russia?
    You forgot to clarify. That they are wringing out country after country around Russia, except for Armenia. The question is why? After all, Armenia historically clings to them. After the First World War, the Armenian delegation went overboard at the Paris Peace Conference to become a US-mandated territory. President Wilson himself promised the Armenians that it would be so. But at that time there was still no powerful Armenian lobby in the US Congress. And the US Congress did not support its president, refusing to take Armenia under mandate control.
    But by the time of the collapse of the USSR, the Armenian lobby in the US Congress was already the second most influential, after the Israeli one. Let me remind you that from 1,5 to 2,5 million Armenians live in the United States. And there are no poor among them. The Armenian lobby in the US Congress is the second most influential after the Israeli one.
    After the collapse of the USSR, the Armenian lobby in the US Congress immediately and very harshly put before the US Presidential Administration the question of the need to protect Armenia !!!
    And here the US Presidential Administration began scratching turnips. It is impossible to ignore the request of the Armenian lobby - it is very influential and is needed to resolve many other issues important to the US Presidential Administration. On the other hand, it is necessary to ensure the protection of Armenia in such a way so as not to cause irritation of the old NATO member - Turkey, with which the United States then had love and full mutual understanding. And we still have not to offend a new friend - Yeltsin's Russia, where then the best friend of the USA - Andrei Kozyrev was in charge of foreign affairs.
    It would seem that at that time the simplest solution would have been to admit Armenia to NATO. But this would just anger both Turkey and Russia. Moreover, it contradicted the NATO Charter, since NATO cannot accept states that have territorial disputes with their neighbors. And Armenia is not that it has a territorial dispute - it generally occupied part of a neighboring country (Azerbaijan), but also openly claims part of the territory of a NATO member - Turkey.
    You can place a US military base in Armenia. But this step will cause exactly the same reaction. And how to explain to American taxpayers why the US needs a base also in Armenia, when there are already US bases in neighboring Turkey?
    And then the United States made a clever Jesuit move. They recommended that Armenians ask for a base…. from Russia. And the Armenians, who recently spat in our direction to such an extent that they banned the holding of a referendum on the preservation of the USSR on the territory of Armenia, quickly changed their shoes and began to sing to us songs about the great friendship of the Armenian people to the great Russian people. And Kozyrev presented the EBN this case in such a way that we can allegedly put a hedgehog in the pants of the United States and that the United States, they say, cannot do anything to us in response. Of course, this proposal delighted EBN. As a result, Kozyrev received another order, and Armenia received our base. And soon Armenia also made it into the CSTO.
    And the USA joyfully rubbed their hands. Since this decision alone immediately killed a lot of rabbits.
    - Satisfied the Armenian lobby in the US Congress, and ensured the security of Armenia in such a way that they did not quarrel with Turkey;
    - Saved money;
    - They laid a mine under Russian-Turkish and Russian-Azerbaijani relations for decades to come.
    Now this unfortunate base, which is absolutely unnecessary for us to protect Russia proper, has a huge knotty log lying in the way of establishing relations between Russia and Turkey. Armenia’s membership in the CSTO, by the way, is also.
    That is, our base in Armenia is not only with the permission of the United States, but, in fact, on the instructions of the United States.
    Let me remind you that Armenia has territorial claims against Turkey, and does not hide it. And since we keep our base in Armenia, and even on the border with Turkey, it means that we, too, seem to support Armenia in its territorial claims.
    The best thing for us is to withdraw our base from Armenia soon and ... let anyone there arrange their bases - even the United States, even China, even India, even Ethiopia.
    Only having removed the base from the territory of Armenia, we will finally get the opportunity to establish honest (without a stone in the bosom) comprehensive relations with Turkey (and Azerbaijan), which even each individually is much more valuable to us than Armenia, and even more so.
    But the United States, for which the alliance of Russia and Turkey (and Azerbaijan), to which Iran will join is the worst horror, will make every effort to prevent the Armenians from allowing such an alliance.
    Therefore, it makes no difference to us who will stand at the helm of Armenia. Whoever gets up - all the same, he will be guided by the USA and follow the instructions of the State Department. At the same time, he was banging his fist on his chest for how great a friend he was of Russia.
    (I wrote this for years ... I don’t remember how many years ago, but at least a couple of years for sure).
  49. Seal
    Seal 23 November 2020 11: 03
    0
    Quote: Grandfather Mykola
    How did you not send it?
    Yes. Even Arayik said 10 days ago (now I can't find where exactly) that at the front there was a ratio of 90% - conscripts from the Armenian Army and 10% - Karabakh Armenians (mainly special forces and artillerymen).
  50. Seal
    Seal 23 November 2020 11: 59
    0
    Quote: napalm
    And that these are all consequences of the collapse of the USSR, and that Azerbaijan can choose any allies for itself.
    Azerbaijan has never cut ties with us. He is a member of the CIS. Member of a number of international organizations created by us. And the headquarters of the Interstate Council on Aviation and the Use of Airspace (Interstate Council) is generally located in Baku.
    On October 23, 2015, in the city of Baku, where the headquarters of the Interstate Council on Aviation and the Use of Airspace (Interstate Council) is located, a meeting of the 35th session of the Interstate Council was held, timed to coincide with the 70th anniversary of the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) and the forthcoming 25– anniversary of the Interstate Council and the Interstate Aviation Committee (IAC), which is its executive body.
    The headquarters of the Interstate Council was opened in Baku on the basis of a unanimously adopted decision of the 34th session of the Interstate Council (December 2013) and in accordance with the Agreement between the Government of the Republic of Azerbaijan and the Interstate Council on the conditions of stay of its headquarters in the Republic of Azerbaijan (Baku) ... The agreement was introduced by the President of Azerbaijan and was unanimously ratified by the Milli Majlis on December 30, 2014 and entered into force in January 2015.

    The Interstate Council includes all the CIS member states, including Armenia.
    Azerbaijan was a member of the CSTO. However, in 1999, due to our then-clear pro-Armenian position, he did not prolong his membership for the next period.