Polish uprising of 1830-1831 Polish chauvinists against Russian benefactors

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Polish uprising of 1830-1831 Polish chauvinists against Russian benefactors
The assault on Warsaw. 1831. German lithographer Georg Benedict Wunder

Kingdom of Poland


Polish statehood was liquidated during the three partitions of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth - 1772, 1793 and 1795. The lands of the Commonwealth were divided between three great powers - Russia, Austria and Prussia. At the same time, the Russian Empire mainly returned its historical lands - parts of Kiev, Galicia-Volyn, White and Lithuanian Rus. Ethnic Polish lands were transferred to Austria and Prussia. At the same time, the Austrians captured a part of the historically Russian land - Galicia (Chervonnaya, Ugorskaya and Carpathian Rus).

Napoleon, defeating Prussia, created the Duchy of Warsaw - a vassal state from part of the Polish regions belonging to it. Having defeated Austria in 1809, the French emperor handed over to the Poles Lesser Poland with Krakow. The duchy was completely under the control of Napoleon and aimed at his potential opponents - Austria, Prussia and Russia. During the Russian-French war of 1812, the Poles fielded 100 army and were Napoleon's most loyal allies, fought for him bravely and stubbornly. After the defeat of Napoleon's empire at the Congress of Vienna in 1815, the Duchy was abolished. Greater Poland (Poznan) again ceded to Prussia, Austria received part of Lesser Poland, Krakow became a free city (later it was again captured by the Austrians). Most of the Duchy of Warsaw ceded to Russia as the Kingdom of Poland. It included the central part of Poland with Warsaw, the southwestern part of Lithuania, part of the modern Grodno and Lvov regions (western Belarus and Ukraine).



The Russian Tsar Alexander I, despite the fact that the Poles were the most loyal soldiers of Napoleon, showed them great mercy, unusual for Western Europe, where any resistance and disobedience was always crushed in the most cruel way. He gave the Poles an autonomous structure, a diet, a constitution (it was not in Russia itself), his own army, administration and monetary system. Moreover, Alexander forgave the former ardent supporters of Napoleon, gave the opportunity to return to Warsaw and take major posts there. Divisional General of Napoleon's Great Army Jan Dombrowski was appointed senator, general of the Russian army and began the formation of a new Polish army. Another general of Napoleon, Jozef Zajoncek, also received the rank of general of the Russian army, senator, princely dignity and became the first governor in the Kingdom (from 1815 to 1826). True, the stake on Zayonchek was justified, he became a supporter of unity with Russia.


Kingdom of Poland in 1831

The heyday of Russian Poland. Polish chauvinism


Under the rule of the Russian Tsar, the Kingdom experienced a flourishing period. The era of bloody wars is a thing of the past. Poland has lived in peace for 15 years. No civil wars and confederations, tycoon revolts and foreign invasions. Ordinary people have learned how to live in peace and without much blood. The population grew, the economy of the region developed. Warsaw University, higher schools (military, polytechnic, mining, forestry, the institute of people's teachers) were established, the number of secondary and primary schools grew rapidly. The life of the peasants improved, medieval taxes and customs became a thing of the past. Agriculture, industry and trade developed. The kingdom took advantage of its position between Western Europe and Russia.

However, all this seemed to the Polish chauvinist patriots little. No matter how much you feed the wolf, he still looks into the forest. They wanted radical reforms, separation from Russia and the 1772 borders. That is, they again dreamed of a great Poland "from sea to sea", with the inclusion of the western and southern Russian lands. In the wake of the pro-Western, post-war wave in Poland, as well as in Russia, secret societies are emerging. Among the supporters of the uprising were a wide variety of strata of the population: aristocrats, clergy, gentry, officers, officials, students and the democratic intelligentsia. As a result, two wings were formed - aristocratic and democratic. There was no unity in the ranks of the future Polish rebels. Some dreamed of "good old Poland", with the rule of the clergy and gentry, with feudal and serfdom. Others are about the republic and "democracy". They were united by Russophobia and great-power chauvinism.

The Russian government treated the Polish "throwing" with extraordinary complacency and condescension. In particular, secret societies were known (as in Russia), but they were not suppressed. Polish officers and members of illegal Polish societies who were involved in the Decembrists' case were released. Grand Duke Konstantin Pavlovich, commander-in-chief of the Polish army and governor of the Kingdom of Poland since 1826, pursued a liberal policy. But he could not attract society, the diet and the army to his side.

Russian-Turkish War 1828 - 1829 caused the revitalization of the hopes of Polish patriots. The Russian army was engaged in the Balkans. They planned to kill the Russian Tsar Nicholas I when the Polish crown was laid on him. But the celebrations went off quite well. The fire in Poland was fueled by a wave of revolutions in Europe in 1830. In France, the July Revolution took place, the House of Bourbons was overthrown, and the House of Orleans received power. The Belgian Revolution in the Netherlands led to the secession of the Southern Provinces and the creation of Belgium. Tsar Nicholas decided to suppress the revolution in Belgium. The Polish army was to take part in the campaign along with the Russian troops. This became the reason for the mutiny.

"November night"


On November 17 (29), 1830, a group of military men led by Pyotr Vysotsky attacked the barracks of the guards lancers (the attack was repulsed). Another group of conspirators, led by officers and students of military educational institutions, broke into the Belvedere Palace to kill Tsarevich Konstantin Pavlovich. But he was warned, and the grand duke fled. Students and workers joined the rebels. They killed several Polish generals who remained loyal to the Russian emperor and the Polish king, and seized the arsenal. The next day, a purge of the government was carried out, General Khlopitsky was appointed commander-in-chief (under Napoleon he rose to the rank of brigadier general). However, Khlopitsky refused this appointment (he understood that the uprising was doomed without the help of the European powers, and categorically insisted on an agreement with Emperor Nicholas) and offered Prince Radziwill for this position, remaining with him as an adviser. Soon the Diet declared the Romanov dynasty deposed, the new government was headed by Czartoryski. Power was seized by an aristocratic (right-wing) party.

The Grand Duke at the very beginning could suppress the uprising, but he showed criminal passivity and even sympathy for the Polish "patriots". If in his place were a decisive commander like Suvorov, he had every chance to crush the rebellion in the bud. Under his command, Russian units and Polish regiments remained, which remained loyal to the throne. They were the best in the army. But the loyal units received no orders and were gradually demoralized. Konstantin Pavlovich stated:

"I don't want to participate in this Polish fight!"

He disbanded the loyal regiments (they immediately strengthened the rebels), did not call up the Lithuanian corps and left the Kingdom of Poland. The powerful fortresses of Zamoć and Modlin were surrendered to the Poles without a fight.

The Polish rebels demanded from Tsar Nicholas broad autonomy, "eight voivodships". Nikolai offered only amnesty. The war began. The revolt spread to Lithuania, Podolia and Volhynia, where the Catholic and Uniate clergy and Polish landowners were the conductors of Polish influence. In January 1831, the Russian army under the command of Ivan Dibich-Zabalkansky began hostilities. It should be noted that the Polish army, full of patriotism, was fully combat-ready. Her higher officers went through the excellent school of Napoleon. Then many officers and soldiers went through the school of the Russian army. At the same time, Warsaw did not receive help from the West, as it hoped. Neither France, which had not yet regained consciousness after the Napoleonic wars and revolution, nor England, Austria or Prussia (fearing the spread of the uprising on their territory) did not actively support Poland. In the Kingdom itself, the Polish privileged estates did not receive the support of the masses (the peasantry), the Sejm refused to carry out the peasant reform. As a result, the rebellion was doomed to defeat from the very beginning.


Defeat


Diebitsch, apparently underestimating the enemy, decided to crush the enemy with one powerful offensive. Hoping for a quick victory, the Russian commander-in-chief went "light", did not bother the army with carts and artillery. He also did not wait for the concentration of all forces, which made it possible to immediately crush the Polish rebels. As a result, the entire Polish campaign, the Russian army paid for this strategic mistake. The war dragged on and resulted in heavy losses. The Russians pressed the enemy and defeated him in a decisive battle at Grokhov on February 13, 1831. General Khlopitsky was seriously wounded and refused to lead the uprising. However, the Poles retreated to the strong fortifications of Prague (a suburb of Warsaw) and were covered by the Vistula. And the Russian army ran out of ammunition, did not have heavy artillery for the assault. The situation on the left flank (Lublin direction) was unfortunate. Therefore, Diebitsch did not dare to storm Warsaw and withdrew his troops in order to establish communications and supplies. That is, the war could not be completed with one operation.

Having replenished the reserves, Diebitsch decided to resume the offensive against Warsaw in the spring. The new Polish commander-in-chief, General Skrzynecki (served in Napoleon's army) decided to counterattack and smash the Russian army piece by piece. It is worth noting that the new commander-in-chief was able to delay the inevitable defeat of the Polish army for several months. The Polish army successfully attacked the Russian vanguard under the command of Geismar, then defeated Rosen's 6th corps at Dembe Wielka (33 thousand Poles against 18 thousand Russians). A threat was created to the rear of the Russian army. Diebitsch had to temporarily abandon the offensive on the Polish capital and go to join with Rosen.

In April, Diebitsch was going to renew the offensive, but by order of the sovereign he began to wait for the arrival of the guards. Skrzynecki decided to repeat his previous success: to smash the Russians in parts. The Polish army moved to the Guards Corps under the command of the Grand Duke Mikhail Pavlovich, which was located in the area between the Bug and Narew. The Poles were unable to defeat the guard, which successfully retreated. Diebitsch had to go to join the guard. The Poles began to retreat, but Diebitsch overtook the enemy with rapid marches. On May 26, in a decisive battle near Ostrolenka, the Polish army was defeated. The Poles again retreated to Warsaw. The mutiny was suppressed in Lithuania and Volhynia. Diebitsch did not have time to complete the campaign, fell ill and soon died.

The army was led by Ivan Paskevich. Russian troops launched an offensive on Warsaw and crossed the Vistula. Skrzyniecki's attempts to organize a new counteroffensive did not lead to success. He was replaced by Dembinsky, who took the troops to the capital. An uprising took place in Warsaw. Krukowiecki was appointed president of the dying Poland, the Diet subordinated the army to the government. Not wanting this subordination, Dembinsky left the post of commander-in-chief, he was taken by Malakhovsky. Meanwhile, on August 6 (19), 1831, Paskevich's army surrounded the city. The Russian sovereign offered amnesty to the rebels, but Krukovetsky rejected the "humiliating" conditions. On August 25, Russian troops launched a decisive attack. On August 26, on the anniversary of Borodin, the Russian army took the Polish capital by storm (over 70 thousand Russians against 39 thousand Poles). The battle was bloody. Our losses - more than 10 thousand people, Polish - about 11 thousand. Paskevich was wounded in the battle.

The remnants of the Polish army retreated to Polotsk. In September 1831, the last Polish troops fled to Austria and Prussia, where they laid down weapon... The garrisons of Modlin and Zamoć surrendered in October. Thus, Poland was pacified. The Polish leadership in this war once again showed its shortsightedness. Blinded by chauvinism, dreams of "greatness", Polish politicians rejected several opportunities for an agreement with Nikolai. The Polish constitution was abolished. The Diet and the Polish army were disbanded. Paskevich became Governor-General of the Kingdom of Poland and began to carry out the Russification of Western Ukraine in the Russian Empire. Measures were taken to improve the situation of the peasantry, to reduce the influence of the Catholic clergy and Polish landowners in the Western Russian regions. Unfortunately, these measures have not been completed. Tsar Alexander II continued his liberal policy, which caused a new uprising.


Paskevich in a painting by Polish artist Januarius Sukhodolski, circa 1841
120 comments
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  1. +4
    19 November 2020 05: 40
    ,, Lucky ,, Russia with a neighbor!
    1. +22
      19 November 2020 06: 07
      Due to the fact that we have shown great mercy to them throughout history, we constantly have a knife in the back from the Poles! We save all sorts of Krakows from explosions, and they, as a token of gratitude, demolish monuments to our wars ... But why? Because Catholics - an unnatural union of Westernizing religious ideology with Slavic mentality - led to the perversion of the national consciousness of an entire people - Alexander Vasilich, yes Susanin, Minin and Pozharsky still knew how to build correct relations with the Poles!
      1. +11
        19 November 2020 07: 00
        The catholicization of the population leads to the emergence of Russophobia, and this, in turn, leads to the destruction of the Russian state. It is not without reason that Catholics in Belarus are now taking an active part in the overthrow of Lukashenka.
        1. -1
          19 November 2020 07: 03
          That's right!
          1. +8
            19 November 2020 08: 46
            Alexander Samsonov - Well done! You can write normal articles ... without Great Tartary and other Fomenkovism! I put a well-deserved plus!
            1. +7
              19 November 2020 10: 15
              You can write normal articles ... without Great Tartary and other Fomenkoism!

              A. A. Kersnovsky about the Aryan-Tartarii, in his multivolume work, the History of the Russian army is not mentioned .. And there is no Fomenkovism .. That is why such an article, worthy of attention, turned out. Although the original is better. laughing
              1. +2
                20 November 2020 13: 06
                That is why such a noteworthy article has turned out, although the original is better.

                Well, I thought so, Daniel ... Thanks for the source! drinks
            2. BAI
              +6
              19 November 2020 12: 05
              This is another Samsonov. There are several of them.
              1. 0
                19 November 2020 12: 06
                Quote: BAI
                This is another Samsonov. There are several of them.

                belay Twins or just Twins?
                1. +2
                  20 November 2020 04: 04
                  Quote: Hunter 2
                  Quote: BAI
                  This is another Samsonov. There are several of them.

                  belay Twins or just Twins?

                  Not a relative, and not even a namesake wassat
            3. +4
              19 November 2020 13: 08
              Quote: Hunter 2
              You can write normal articles ...

              Hmm. Is this a normal article?
      2. -1
        19 November 2020 14: 10
        Quote: Finches
        This is due to the fact that we have shown great mercy to them throughout history.


        An example of grace:

        Polish statehood was abolished during the three partitions of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth - 1772, 1793 and 1795. The lands of the Commonwealth were divided between three great powers - Russia, Austria and Prussia.
        1. -1
          19 November 2020 14: 56
          Compared to the intervention, the Russian turmoil, where the Poles took the most active part, the occupation and desecration of the Moscow Kremlin ... This section is up to mercy! And even then came a century and a half after their nastiness!
          1. -1
            19 November 2020 14: 58
            Quote: Finches
            Compared to the intervention, the Russian turmoil, where the Poles took the most active part, the occupation and desecration of the Moscow Kremlin ...


            All this was 150 years before. The participants, their children and even grandchildren have long since died.
            1. +1
              19 November 2020 15: 03
              They died, but the sediment remained in the people's memory ... Only the deep mercy of the Russian people throughout history after this meanness allowed Poland to exist and flourish - at first as a kingdom with autonomy, and then, after their next show off, as a general governorship! And for good, they should have been transported to the north in Stolypin wagons ... But, unfortunately, then Russian Railways was still in its infancy! laughing
              1. -3
                19 November 2020 15: 11
                Quote: Finches
                Only the deep compassion of the Russian people throughout history after this meanness allowed Poland to exist


                fool
                1. +1
                  19 November 2020 15: 15
                  "Are you rude, boy?" laughing I kept waiting for how long you would last ... Not for long!
                  1. -2
                    19 November 2020 15: 16
                    Quote: Finches
                    I kept waiting for how long you would last ... Not for long!


                    I learned everything I needed smile
                    1. +2
                      19 November 2020 15: 17
                      Unfortunately no! And do not flatter yourself that you are a great historian and subtle psychologist! laughing
                      1. -1
                        19 November 2020 15: 21
                        I decide for myself what I need to know and I found out smile

                        Quote: Finches
                        And do not flatter yourself that you are a great historian and subtle psychologist


                        Do not flatter yourself - you are as simple as five kopecks. In order to understand you, you don't need to be a psychologist or a historian smile
                      2. +3
                        19 November 2020 15: 23
                        And proud of it!
                        I see you have already run along this branch ... Fed from me and it will be - good luck in the difficult matter of fat trolling! laughing hi
                      3. -2
                        19 November 2020 15: 25
                        Quote: Finches
                        And proud of it!


                        Well, what else are you proud of ...

                        Quote: Finches
                        good luck in the difficult business of fat trolling!


                        Thank you.
          2. 0
            21 November 2020 00: 28
            you would call the departure of the Poles in the oven of Auschwitz, mercy.
      3. 0
        20 November 2020 12: 31
        in 1610 we could have liquidated Russia, but we did not. We even helped the Russian elite end the chaos in Russia. at the request of the Russian elite, we presented Russia with a Polish prince to the royal throne. In return, we were satisfied with the oath of the Russian tsar that Russia would never again attack Poland-Shuiskys' oath. The Russians, in exchange for this Polish good nature, more than a hundred years later entered into an alliance with the Germans against Poland. If not for the Polish aid in 1610-1612. The Russians would have killed each other for the next hundred years in the name of various usurpers.
        1. +2
          21 November 2020 11: 15
          As I understand it, you are speaking "on behalf of Poland"? If so, let's argue.
          Quote: white.eagle
          in 1610 we could have liquidated Russia, but we didn’t. We even helped the Russian elite end the chaos in Russia. at the request of the Russian elite, we presented Russia with a Polish prince to the royal throne.

          Have you helped end the chaos? Didn't this chaos come from the Polish land? Where did False Dmitry # 1 and # 2 come from? Who was Marina Mnishek? Oh yes, Poland did not declare war for the time being, but in the end Poland had to answer (and ultimately did) for the "private initiative" of the all-powerful magnates. Actually, they divided it later precisely because the king could not control his territory.
          It is well said "presented", but for some reason Vladislav, despite the oath and invitation to him, did not come to Moscow and did not accept the authorities. But his daddy did not stop military operations. Apparently, instead of making his son king, Sigismund just wanted to conquer and annex Russia, didn't he? From a dynastic point of view, it was stupidity and betrayal of his son, since in Russia there was a hereditary monarchy, and in Poland - an elective one.
          Quote: white.eagle
          If not for the Polish aid in 1610-1612. The Russians would kill each other for the next hundred years in the name of various usurpers.

          That's what's interesting. Just during the "Polish aid in 1610-1612" in Russia there was a mess and turmoil, and as the Poles were thrown out, so the turmoil (by some incredible coincidence) ended.
  2. +10
    19 November 2020 06: 30
    ... The Russian Tsar Alexander I, despite the fact that the Poles were the most loyal soldiers of Napoleon, showed them great mercy, unusual for Western Europe, where any resistance and disobedience was always crushed in the most cruel way. He gave the Poles an autonomous structure, a diet, a constitution (it was not in Russia itself), his army, administration and monetary system. Moreover, Alexander forgave the former ardent supporters of Napoleon, gave the opportunity to return to Warsaw and take major posts there.

    This is not a great mercy, but a huge stupidity of Alexander I, who, following the results of the Napoleonic Wars, had a love for the Duchy of Warsaw. I would restrain my appetite, there would be a "windbag" buffer understatement, like the present Baltic countries.
    Eh, he lacked the perspicacity of Catherine's grandmother.
    By the way, in the 18th century, the Rzecz Pospolita played this role, acting as a courtyard for its neighbors.
    Well, somewhere like that.
    1. +5
      19 November 2020 08: 44
      I subscribe to every word ... hi As a result of the War with Napoleon, there is only one Superpower left in the World! Repnin's Cossacks settled in Paris, giving the French a lot of new words ... for example, Bistro! Alexander is very weak as a politician. These his throwing, then we are friends with Napoleon, then we are at war, did not lead to anything good. Or they could have multiplied Britain by zero, the entire Naglo-Saxon world - removed from big politics. And there would be the United States now - somewhere between Peru and Honduras. Russia would have Alaska, and California too ... eh Dreams crying
      1. +7
        19 November 2020 10: 36
        giving the French a lot of new words ... like Bistro!
        For some reason, the French only hid the gift for a long time and began to use it already seventy years after it was presented to them.
        1. +7
          19 November 2020 13: 02
          Some kind of turbopatriot linguist is trying to argue.
          1. +6
            19 November 2020 13: 24
            He's not alone here !!!
            1. +2
              19 November 2020 13: 30
              It's your own fault ... Bistro for turbolinguists is sacred
              1. +6
                19 November 2020 13: 38
                There are a lot of words in French that are really borrowed from Russian and with which turbopatriots - folk linguists could amuse their ChSV.
                For example: abrek, armiak, baba-yaga, barine, dvor and many others.
                1. -1
                  19 November 2020 13: 41
                  Quote: Undecim
                  abrek

                  )))
                  Just a Bistro symbol of victory over Napoleon for the poor.
                2. +5
                  19 November 2020 14: 08
                  moujik is perhaps the most famous. Especially in the context in which it is commonly used
                3. +4
                  19 November 2020 16: 42
                  Once we were traveling to Moscow with a young Armenian who had recently arrived from Yerevan and was just beginning to learn Russian. So he tells me - there are a lot of Russian words in the Armenian language. I asked for examples, he says: "Sorry, merci, madam."
            2. +4
              20 November 2020 01: 15
              Viktor hi,
              You their wretched little world # can repeat and # destroy the whole world in the bud. wassat
              1. +6
                20 November 2020 01: 33
                You are exaggerating my capabilities. It is extremely difficult to resist the modern propaganda machine and its impact on underdeveloped intelligences. And why?
                That is why I am writing such comments for those who have not yet been "sucked in by the dangerous quagmire" of propaganda.
                1. +5
                  20 November 2020 01: 39
                  Knowledge is not as contagious as dullness. They are subject to loss. Again in contrast ...
                  1. +5
                    20 November 2020 01: 48
                    As one unknown sage said, if a person dies, this is for a long time, if he is durak, it is forever.
                    1. +4
                      20 November 2020 01: 57
                      To defeat the "dyro-apocalypse" we, "non-believers", may not be enough ...
      2. +4
        19 November 2020 13: 13
        Quote: Hunter 2
        And they could have multiplied Britain by zero, the entire Naglo-Saxon world - removed from big politics.

        Alexander managed with great difficulty to break out of the trap into which Russia was led by at least the inconsistent policy of the pre-war decades. Would have shown itself unconstructively - the Crimean disaster would have happened 40 years earlier. With all the claims to Napoleon, no one was going to endure the Russians instead.
      3. +2
        19 November 2020 15: 14
        Quote: Hunter 2
        As a result of the War with Napoleon, there is only one Superpower left in the World!


        Britannia?
    2. +6
      19 November 2020 08: 52
      In Austria-Prussia, Poles were exterminated regardless of age or gender. It also happened that several Poles were hanged for murder for each of * their own *, Polish nobles were deprived of titles and lands.
      Compare this to the * appeasement * of the Poles in the RUSSIAN EMPIRE.
    3. +8
      19 November 2020 08: 58
      Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
      This is not a great favor, but a huge stupidity of Alexander I, who, following the results of the Napoleonic Wars, had a love for the Duchy of Warsaw. I would restrain my appetite, there would be a "windbag" buffer understatement

      Smart decision: what to have independent ALWAYS hostile Poland, and even under the ALWAYS hostile influence of the West. Europe - it is better to keep it subservient.
      As it was in the 19th century, as it was in 1944-91
      Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
      I would restrain my appetite, there would be a "windbag" buffer understatement, like the present Baltic countries.

      Wow, "windbag" - THIRD of Napoleon's invasion armies in Russia are Poles.

      The Baltics never imagined anything like that ...
      1. +2
        19 November 2020 14: 11
        Quote: Olgovich
        The THIRD army of Napoleon's invasion of Russia is the Poles.


        Share a link to the source of this data.
    4. +4
      19 November 2020 10: 32
      This is not a great favor, but a huge stupidity of Alexander I
      ... Yeah, I got hemorrhoids ... And so an independent state that would not "love" everyone, both the Germans and the Russians, and there are no other borders ... And the clanging of German teeth at the borders, willy-nilly, would lead to an alliance with Russia ... there would be no place to go ...
    5. -1
      20 November 2020 05: 51
      I would restrain my appetite, there would be a "windbag" buffer understatement, like today's Baltic countries

      I doubt that Alexander I had a choice. If he had abandoned Poland, Russia would have received virtually nothing from the destruction of the Napoleonic empire. And this non-state would eventually be cleaned up by our "partners" from Austria or Prussia, and Poland would become that vile insignificance that the Tribaltic limitrophes are now. And so it became only vile, but not insignificant, but a completely prosperous governor-general, who does not value good.
  3. +5
    19 November 2020 07: 44
    And I saw the Czartoryski estate. Only the guide babbled more about some of the fair sex of this family. And as for the one who led the uprising, she somehow did not say anything.
  4. +9
    19 November 2020 10: 10
    The sovereign was of a broad soul, he handed out the Constitutions to Poland and Finland, freed the Baltic peasants from serfdom, because Russian subjects had not grown to such sovereign favor ..
  5. -3
    19 November 2020 11: 40
    Polish chauvinists against Russian benefactors

    According to the author, the national liberation movement of the Poles is chauvinism, and the Russian rule over Poland is a blessing! At the same time, Russia helped other peoples, who were under foreign rule, to free themselves, even fought for their freedom! That is, according to the author, there are two types of national liberation movements - "correct"if the people strive to free themselves from foreign dominion / applies only to pro-Russian n.o.d / and "wrong"if this is Russian rule! Somehow, Mr. Samsonov thinks with a double yardstick! Smells like chauvinism on the ego side! He does not take into account the indisputable fact that politics, including Russian, is always guided not by moral principles, but by interests! Stations, as they primitivize situations, are counterproductive! negative
    1. +3
      19 November 2020 16: 01
      When Sigismund invaded the Moscow state in the time of troubles, apparently in your opinion, he also dreamed of benefiting our Fatherland!
      1. +5
        19 November 2020 17: 17
        ... apparently in your opinion too ...

        In my opinion, everyone had, is and will have their own interests, which may contradict / coincide with the interests of others. Fact - almost everyone who fought against whom at one time, at another, became allies! You have the right to your interests, but then you cannot deny the right of others to have theirs! hi Otherwise, you are the one who gets chauvinism, instead of patriotism!
        1. +3
          19 November 2020 18: 26
          Well, everything was reduced to the banal "we have a machine gun, but you do not have it."
          1. +3
            19 November 2020 20: 54
            Well, everything was reduced to the banal "we have a machine gun, but you do not have it."

            You crawling "the right of the strong", want to have those rights that you deny to others - "We have a machine gun, but you do not have it"! It works for a while, but at one point it fails ... because, "truth is not in power, but in truth is power"! hi
    2. -2
      19 November 2020 20: 34
      Bulgaria today, I beg your pardon, is an Anglo-Saxon gasket, but personally, I still love the common Bulgarian people, but not very much the Poles!
      1. +7
        19 November 2020 21: 15
        Eugene, the main generator of Russophobia is Russian chauvinism, which is demonstrated to its fullest here on VO! No enemies have harmed Russia as much as the Russians themselves! You manage to turn the most well-intentioned towards you against yourself! Poles, for the most part sane, are normal people! So it is with the Bulgarians and all the others! You have to understand a simple matter - everyone has their own truth, but you don't have a monopole! The story is ambiguous! Looks differently from different sides! If you are looking for conflicts, there will always be reasons! Do you need it ???
        1. 0
          19 November 2020 22: 10
          Quote: pytar
          You have to understand a simple matter - everyone has their own truth, but you don't have a monopole! The story is ambiguous! Looks differently from different angles!


          This is the problem, that for the sake of profit you fall under the strong one. To realize their national interests in a modern language. Alas, this is not provided for by banal decency and historical memory.
          1. +2
            19 November 2020 23: 40
            You and you are alike, typically black and white thinking, mixed with clichés. It can be easily reprogrammed, white turns black and back! A very accurate comment on the problem was given by another forum user good , a few posts down:
            Roman_LKW (Novel) And the Russians will then collapse the main template and it will turn out that all neighboring countries have their own interests and they often do not coincide with the Russians. Now, if the heroes coincide, and if they do not coincide, then chauvinists, separatists, nationalists, terrorists / here you can add the whole stamp list /... You see, they are accustomed to considering themselves the main and right everywhere, and when they are clicked on the nose, they immediately begin to whine, our friends are only the army and the navy, and all around are enemies and ungrateful traitors. Phantom imperialist pains do not let go.
            1. +3
              20 November 2020 06: 10
              Putar, We (Russia) are the empire. Even according to the Tale of Bygone Years, the participation of four nations in the formation of the Old Russian state was belittled.
              For more than a thousand years, my ancestors have created such a not frail "house". Which even after "nibbling" is 1/7 of the land. So I have something to be proud of.
              Bulgaria several times became the subject of the interests of Russia, the Russian Empire, the USSR. Yes, it is not always beautiful, but it was the Russian soldier who stood to death with the Bulgarians on Shipka, and it was our diplomacy that was behind the emergence of the Bulgarian state.
              You think it is easy for us to realize that you were not on our side in both world wars. Although to the credit of the Bulgarian soldier, he fought with dignity against the Nazis in 44-45.
              Today, politically, Bulgaria is again on the other side. I gave the opinion of a layman.
              Now seriously, I wrote above that Alexander 1 made a mistake with Poland. Did Alexander 2 make a mistake with Bulgaria? I think not, I went too far after the Russian-Turkish war, yes, but I retreated.
              Participation in the First World War on the side of Germany was the decision of the Bulgarian elite, not the aspirations of the Bulgarian people. The union with Hitler during the Second World War was forced, but it will never find understanding in Russian society. It is banal that the Ruhr language does not give a damn about the Slovaks who fought against us, but the image of the “Bulgarian brother” will cause emotional outrage precisely because the average person in Russia considers you to be close to himself in spirit, faith, and self-awareness. The situation is similar with Ukrainians, Belarusians, Serbs.
              What the USSR did after the war is still the objective reality of the hegemon's behavior. From the pragmatic and cynical policies of Stalin, to the elephants in the china shop after him. I advise you to read M. Jilus.
              In his book Conversations with Stalin, there is an episode when at the beginning of 1944 representatives of the party elites in Bulgaria and Yugoslavia argue about Macedonia. The Red Army has not yet reached its western borders.
              Today, yes, we and you have a reason to take offense at each other. But to be honest, it's up there. And we are at the bottom. We will always find a common language, only one request, do not touch the monuments and graves of our soldiers.
              Although it is possible that I wrote the last lines in vain, well, I cannot imagine the brothers in the enemy's trenches. The stereotype, phantom pains, time will tell.
              Regards, Vlad!
              1. +5
                20 November 2020 13: 55
                Dear Vladislav, hi now you have expressed your vision of things in understandable human language, it is probably shared by many others in Russia. And if I completely agree with you regarding the opinion about the imperial essence of the Russian state, then on the topic of relations between our countries, we have differences of opinion! I will not go into details, I will give you one link that will help you figure out a lot! Read it, I think it will be interesting for you!
                https://www.vedomosti.ru/opinion/articles/2017/10/20/738689-bratushki-bratoubiitsami
                As for WWII, Bulgaria was forced into the Axis and never took part in the war against the USSR, no matter how Hitler insisted. This was the maximum possible that Bulgaria could do for the USSR in the situation it was in. And with 44, the Bulgarian army fought against the Wehrmacht and by the way fought quite well! The fact of participation of the BGA Commander-in-Chief, General Vladimir Stoychev, at the Victory Parade is not accidental!
                You said one very interesting and correct thought:
                It is banal that the Ruhr language does not give a damn about the Slovaks who fought against us, but the image of the “Bulgarian brother” will cause emotional outrage precisely because the average person in Russia considers you to be close to himself in spirit, faith, and self-awareness.

                Spiritual, cultural, historical ties between our peoples come from antiquity, from the moment of national formation! The overwhelming majority of Bulgarians do not consider Russians as strangers. Russia and Bulgaria are two parts of one whole! And it is precisely the proximity of our peoples on the one hand, and on the other, the difference in visions of events / this is normal for people / propaganda uses incitement to hatred! They are beating up close relatives, not "Portuguese, Singaporeans"! For me personally, Ross is a huge bewilderment. propaganda that abounds with bulgarophobic materials!
                Today, yes, we and you have a reason to take offense at each other. But to be honest, it's up there. And we are at the bottom. We will always find a common language, only one request, do not touch the monuments and graves of our soldiers.

                There is always a reason to be offended! It's the same in families! And in fact, the common is much, much more than what separates! Which way to go? Shield or destroy?
                As for the monuments, Vladislav, it is on this topic that a huge number of fakes and fakes are circulated in the Russian media! Parallel universe - nothing to do with reality! Bulgaria is unique in that it is the world recorder for the concentration of monuments, o.i.z. associated with Russia / USSR! More than 540 and over the past 20 years, another 12-14 have been erected !!! Not a single one is touched, everyone is standing, supported, repairing! It happens that some incomprehensible provocateurs occasionally draw something under cover of night, and the next day the authorities clear everything! And your media have the same cases, show 100 times, I give the impression that different cases! Fuck !!! belay Why do they do this, question !?
                ... well, I can't imagine the brothers in the enemy's trenches.

                Russian propaganda is stubbornly trying to convince you that the Bulgarians are enemies! This is nonsense, nonsense! May we not be enemies with you! By opinion polls western agencies, Bulgarians are in the lead in sympathy for Russians. This is the reality, but all other propaganda.
                1. +2
                  20 November 2020 16: 10
                  Dear Putar, I hope for a historical swing. From my personal experience, I have always found a common language with the Bulgarians. May God grant mutual understanding to our children and grandchildren.
                  I don’t know about propaganda, but in 2009 I took tests at the institute. There was a question test item list at least five Slavic peoples. More than half of the answers started with Bulgarians.
                  Thanks for the shares and monuments, time will change everything, but I hope never to the Slavic community.
                  Regards, Vlad!
                  1. +3
                    20 November 2020 23: 30
                    I wonder if cluster analysis can be done. And come up with a "proximity index".

                    If we take the Belarusians and Ukrainians outside the brackets, I would also start with the Bulgarians among the Slavic peoples.

                    But these are personal details of the biography.
                  2. +2
                    21 November 2020 00: 24
                    Thanks for the shares and monuments, time will change everything, but I hope never to the Slavic community.

                    While I was going to answer, I read in our news:

                    Monument to liberators erected in Pazardzhik
                    20 November, 2020



                    And in Pazardzhik there was a monument to the liberators of the city - Russian troops, which entered the then Tatar Pazardzhik on January 2 according to the old style or January 14 according to the new 1878.
                    The monument was erected near the bridge over the Maritsa River, along which the vanguard of General Nikolai Brok crossed the river.
                    It is written on the pedestal of the monument “Bow to the liberators! Russian troops liberated the city of Pazardzhik from the Ottoman-Turkish domination on January 2/14, 1878. General Brock's vanguard entered the city first.".
                    The monument also contains a bas-relief of General Brock and a monumental column indicating the year of liberation, as well as an Orthodox cross.
                    https://rus.bg/esche/interesno/interesno/31522-v-pazardzhike-ustanovili-pamyatnik-osvoboditelyam
                    ---------------------------------------------------------
                    This, according to my calculations, is the 14th or 15th monument in honor of Russia, erected over the past 20 years. In Bulgaria, all the monuments are as they stood, and new ones are being erected! This is not Poland, not the Czech Republic! I wonder how many Russian media will reflect this event? Hardly much, they did not write about the former! After all, this is not an inscription, it was made during the night of some idiot - an ideal excuse for the Russian media to scold the Bulgarians, but nothing that the municipal authorities will wear the inscription before dinner!
                    For some reason, rus-media surround you with a negative informational background, replicating all sorts of nonsense and fakes, and good news, those that are silent about friendship, brotherhood ... request
                2. +1
                  21 November 2020 11: 43
                  Quote: pytar
                  As for the monuments, Vladislav, it is on this topic that a huge number of fakes and fakes are circulated in the Russian media! Parallel universe - nothing to do with reality! Bulgaria is unique in that it is the world recorder for the concentration of monuments, o.i.z. associated with Russia / USSR! More than 540 and over the past 20 years, another 12-14 have been erected !!! Not a single one is touched, everyone is standing, supported, repairing! It happens that some incomprehensible provocateurs occasionally draw something under cover of night, and the next day the authorities clear everything! And your media have the same cases, show 100 times, I give the impression that different cases! Fuck !!!

                  That's exactly what I suspected! Do not trust the Internet and the media, in the most unexpected place lies can come out! Probably, this lie was beneficial to someone.
                  1. +1
                    21 November 2020 13: 19
                    That's exactly what I suspected! Do not trust the Internet and the media, in the most unexpected place lies can come out! Probably, this lie was beneficial to someone.

                    In my humble opinion, and bearing in mind that rus-media are largely controlled by the authorities and structures close to them, anti-Bulgarian propaganda is being done purposefully! At first glance "this can't be"! But the information policy is a part of the general policy of the state! The Russian Federation has global goals! One of them is the return of Russia to the Balkans! The strategy of GDP pushes the West out of the Balkans. "with help" Turkey! This is the scenario that is in Syria and in Karabakh! Turkey plays a role "bad guy", a scarecrow, and Russia is a defender! The West is inert, incapacitated, it is economically and civilizationally strong, but in emergency situations, useless! Russia cannot compete with the West where there is stability, but where there is a threat, yes! In fact, Russia is pushing Turkey in aggression, in the aggravation of the situation! Thus, the threatened themselves will turn to Russia for "protectiony "! Turkey gets a slice, and Russia is a zone of influence! Russian propaganda initially introduces these peoples and countries as "ungrateful, we freed them oh they ...", then "kind, condescending Russia, forgives" and occupies the region! By the way, nothing new, so in the 39th Germany and the USSR divided Poland! The whole world considered Hitler an aggressor, but there was no claim to Stalin ...!
                    1. 0
                      21 November 2020 14: 18
                      I think that Turkey, like Germany in its time, should not be pushed anywhere, it is itself. But taking advantage of the situation is a completely different matter, primarily in a moral sense. The same story in 1939 with Poland, which on September 17 no longer existed. And that the Poles did not have enough brains - purely their personal problems!
              2. +2
                20 November 2020 14: 46
                Good overview. You just need to add that relations with Bulgaria cooled down already under Alexander III, who in many ways differed from his father and not always for the better
                1. +3
                  21 November 2020 11: 52
                  Alas, the Russian side is primarily to blame for the cooling of relations (in my opinion, I feel they will spit right now). Freed - great, but put under the control of the German dynasty and the elite. Of course, they twisted our arms at the Berlin Congress, they threatened us with war, but the fact remains - they wavered. As a result, instead of getting the most reliable ally, what they got.
                  1. 0
                    21 November 2020 13: 29
                    Alas, the Russian side is primarily to blame for the cooling of relations (in my opinion, I feel they will spit right now). Freed - great, but put under the control of the German dynasty and the elite. Of course, they twisted our arms at the Berlin Congress, they threatened us with war, but the fact remains - they wavered. As a result, instead of getting the most reliable ally, what they got.

                    Russian policy in the Balkans differs with inconsistency! At first, they were betting on Bulgaria, so they advocated the creation of a united mono-ethnic / Mizia, Thrace, Macedonia /, a strong Bulgarian state - a Russian bridgehead in the Balkans! In the meantime, Serbia gravitated towards Austria-Hungary, and still did not have a better geographical position, nor sufficient potential for mono-ethnic expansion and strengthening! Purely geographically and demographically, Bulgaria was more suitable for the purposes of the Republic of Ingushetia in the Balkans! But after the death of Alexander II, the priorities of the Republic of Ingushetia in the Balkans changed, they began to put on Serbia, to the detriment of Bulgaria! From the point of view of time, we can accurately estimate - the rate did not justify itself! Moreover, it brought huge problems for Russia, up to the collapse of the Empire! Nowadays, Russia has a weak presence in the Balkans, and the main reason for this, a strategic mistake - is to bet not on Bulgaria, but on Serbia. hi
                    1. 0
                      21 November 2020 14: 26
                      Quote: pytar
                      Nowadays, Russia has a weak presence in the Balkans, and the main reason for this, a strategic mistake - is to bet not on Bulgaria, but on Serbia.

                      Maybe, maybe ... But tell me honestly, how much do you share with the Serbs? Isn't it better peacefully, but in a friendly way?
                      And by the way, how would you assess the alternative possibility of Russia crushing Turkey around 1775-1800, with the inclusion of all the Balkan territories into the empire?
                      1. 0
                        21 November 2020 15: 08
                        Maybe, maybe ... But tell me honestly, how much do you share with the Serbs? Isn't it better peacefully, but in a friendly way?

                        All Balkan countries have lost from conflicts! Serbia, in its striving will expand at the expense of territories with non-Serbian / Bulgarian-Macedonia / population, has lost its own - Kossovo! Greece, for the same reason / Macedonia, White Sea Thrace /, lost the Aegea of ​​Asia Minor and part of Cyprus. Bulgaria did not have time / so far / to outflank its ethnic land / Macedonia /.
                        Nowadays, most of these past conflicts have gone out of their way. Bulgaria has excellent relations with all its neighbors! From Serbia and Greece, probably the best in history! Romania is doing well too! The main reason is EU membership! There is no border / we hope we will soon accept Serbia /, there is no reason for conflicts! Common economic and political space! EU emphasizes cooperation, not conflicts! Sadly, Russia was unable to present a competitive model! She is still trying to use the old maxim - divide and conquer!
                        And by the way, how would you assess the alternative possibility of Russia crushing Turkey around 1775-1800, with the inclusion of all the Balkan territories into the empire?

                        Extremely negative! It would be a gross mistake! The Bulgarians were slighted for 500 years, being part of the foreign Ottoman Empire! The Russian Empire is close in culture, faith and language, but it was also backward, under-tricked! Oddly enough, in the OI the Bulgarian peasants had more rights than the Russian serfs in the Ingush Republic! All Bulgarian champions for national liberation reacted negatively to such a scenario! One of the reasons why the Bulgarians were healed in the 5th century did not disappear, despite all the atrocities against Christians in the Ottoman Empire - that they were in a foreign, non-religious environment! It was clear - we and them! In the Russian empire, because of the ethnic and religious closeness with the Russians and other Slavic peoples, the Bulgarians would have been assimilated, russified in a short time! It would be disastrous for the Bulgarian nation, but it has existed for 13 centuries!
                      2. 0
                        21 November 2020 20: 53
                        Yes, you are wondering. Of course, the position of Russian serfs is a separate and sad topic, but Poland, the Baltic states, Finland were annexed with privileges. You consider joining the EU a blessing, but you fear assimilation to the Russian world, in my opinion, is unfounded. But there is another side, I remember the products of the Bulgarian electronics industry (as part of the CMEA), and where are they? Again, I remember the Bulgarian canned vegetables, but today, is it possible to trade them with the West? And in general, does the EU build factories, power plants and so on in your country? Or maybe it destroys? Here is the example of Greece, the Baltic States, Poland, in my opinion, clearly shows in what capacity the EU needs new members!
                      3. +1
                        21 November 2020 21: 43
                        Dear Konstantin hi , I did not quite accurately and correctly put it. Let me explain! The fact is that the Bulgarians for centuries perceived the Russian Empire as an idealized image of "Grandfather Ivan"! They deified this image, put candles in front of the icons, prayed to him as to the Lord! They pinned all their hopes and aspirations on him! They saw in him their only salvation! Russophilia penetrated at the genetic level in the Bulgarians! Accordingly, such a perception would contribute to the assimilation processes, which would lead to an accelerated russification of the Bulgarian nation. Our champions for national revival understood this too! The fact is that the imperial power, proceeding from its own interests, treated them almost as enemies, more dangerous than the Turks!
                        It is clear that the Poles and the Balts did not have this, even though they crawled with the rights of which the Russian peasants did not have! For the Poles, the Balts, Russia was an empire that conquered them and infringed on their right to self-determination!
                        As an illustration, I will tell from memory a story documented in the Ottoman archives! After the bloody suppression of the Arpel Uprising, in 1877 the Turks decided to play for justice! One of the leaders of the uprising was captured and brought before the court!
                        The judge asked him:
                        What were you counting on, after all, even a fool understands that with your few flint weapons you will not be able to defeat the Empire, spread across 3 continents? You went to the slaughter! Are you crazy or crazy?
                        Vozstannik replied:
                        We knew perfectly well that we could not defeat you! Your strength is too great! But we have achieved our goals! We have already defeated you! Showed to the whole world, the bestial essence of your criminal power! Russia got a reason to come! And she will not be late, be sure! The end of slavery will soon come, you are already beaten! And we made a sacrifice to ourselves, on Altar Freedom! The price is worth all the sacrifices we gave and will give back if needed!
                        Deputy: When suppressing the April uprising, the Turks committed monstrous atrocities! Whole areas were devastated, more than 30 thousand. Bulgarians were killed. This was learned all over the world, especially thanks to the American journalist McGahan, who visited the site shortly after these events. 24.04.1877 Russia declares war on Turkey, with the approval of all Great Powers! During the War of Independence, only in Stara Zagora alone, the Turks slaughtered more than 30 thousand. Bulgarians, how many died on other medstas, it is impossible to post, but Bulgaria got its Freedom! Eternal Glory to Grandfather Ivan!
                        On the most important square of Bulgaria, he sits - Tsar Liberator, Emperor Alexander III! Every Bulgarian knows who he is - Russian Grandfather Ivan! hi
                        https://rg.ru/2018/04/19/rodina-bolgariya.html
                      4. 0
                        21 November 2020 21: 56
                        As for membership in the EU - despite the negative colors in which it is presented by rus-media, it turned out to be very beneficial, useful for Bulgaria! In fact, it saved its economy, gave impetus to development, and now Bulgaria has very good results! The country went bankrupt in 1990, now has a GDP of $ 62 billion! This is a historic record! Gold and foreign exchange reserves of $ 24-25 billion, 3 times more than Belarus! External debt / GDP is minimal, the country is in 2nd place in the EU, with low debt! The economy has been growing steadily from 3,5-4% per year for 10 years in a row! Even now, during the epidemic, Bulgaria is the only country in the EU, whose budget deficit will be below 3% of GDP! Population incomes are growing, unemployment is minimal! The industry is growing, it is already 26-27% / almost as much as in Germany /, new enterprises are opened every month. The pandemic temporarily stopped growth, but Bulgaria will emerge from it with much smaller losses than most of the EU countries! I was a former opponent of EU membership, I no longer see serious negatives, there is much more benefit! hi
                      5. 0
                        22 November 2020 18: 54
                        Good luck to you! Perhaps, indeed, one can benefit from the EU, but I don’t believe in bourgeois charity. request And I, in principle, do not know, if not difficult, tell me, what kind of enterprises are opening with the help of the EU?
                      6. 0
                        22 November 2020 19: 32
                        Thanks! And good luck to you! hi
                        Perhaps, indeed, one can benefit from the EU, but I don’t believe in bourgeois charity.

                        We are not talking about charity, but about mutual benefit! After all, the EU is not the only political and economic union in the world!
                        And I, in principle, do not know, if not difficult, tell me, what kind of enterprises are opening with the help of the EU?

                        According to the programs of European funds, it is possible to open or modernize enterprises in almost all areas - agriculture, tourism, electronics, drug development and production, car kits, aircraft and auto parts, IT sector, biotechnology, energy. With the advantage of being innovative. Thousands of firms crawl these resources.
                        https://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/funding-grants_bg
                        https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/finance-funding/getting-funding/eu-funding-programmes/index_bg.htm
                        April 2020 EU approved assistance for small businesses / in VH / in the amount of 150 million euros.
                        The grant varies from completely gratuitous, to co-financing.
                        By September, another 1500 medium-sized firms receive approx. 200 million euros.
                        In general, from the new financial period starting from May, Bulgaria is to receive 16,7 billion euros from the funds and another 12,3 billion under the recovery plan / after covid /. The priority is "green energy". Now Bulgaria is one of the leaders in the EU in the use of renewable energy sources. Almost a quarter of the energy consumed in the country is produced from tachyk sources.
                        All this is very good, but the EU, the USA, and the whole world, in the next 5-10 years will enter a regime of turbulence, cataclysms, degradation, so a lot of things will change! Hopefully Bulgaria and Russia will be less affected.
                      7. 0
                        21 January 2021 11: 09
                        nothing opens !!!!!!! on the contrary! I tell you as a resident of Vilnius, and who worked in many countries, and talked to many people from the former ... everywhere is a priest! My friend has been living in Germany for 20 years already, such a bad life as it is now in Germany has not been for a long time! and this is GERMANY !!! But what to say about Romanians, Bulgarians, Poles and us, poor Balts. Brussels closes everything, or you yourself will close yourself because you are bankrupt! We have now, and I live in Finland, it’s still a bearable life, the Finns simply don’t go where they don’t need and don’t let strangers in with their samovar, and Brussels does not have much command here, but whoever is poor will be even poorer in the EU.
                      8. 0
                        21 January 2021 12: 09
                        The whole world got sick! Worse than before! In countries where it was good, the deterioration is more noticeable! In Bulgaria, before, everything was much, much worse! That is why EU membership enjoys the support of the majority of citizens! It is a fact!
                      9. 0
                        21 January 2021 11: 04
                        dear, you can rub glasses on the Russians about a good life in Bulgaria, but you won't put a noodle on my ears to the EU, I also worked with Bulgarians in England, and now I work in Finland, maybe we don't speak for life with them)) Bulgarians like the Romanians fleeing in droves from their countries, the economy is in the ass (sorry for the French), there is no job, wages are scanty, what is the minimum unemployment ????? Bulgarians, Romanians, Poles and Greeks, are the main contingent who have now flooded Europe !!!!!!!!!! If you think that there are only Russians on the site, then you are wrong! and I am 100% sure that half of your acquaintances Bulgarians are now at the lowest jobs in Europe.
                      10. 0
                        21 January 2021 12: 13
                        In all countries and in all times, in all social systems, there are layers of dissatisfied people. If you communicate mainly with representatives of such strata, you will get the impression that everyone is dissatisfied. In principle, those who go to work in the EU are dissatisfied. They would get even less in Bulgaria, because they do not have qualifications. Everything is relative! Of course, there is nothing in roses and milk, but life is always ambiguous and for different people it works out differently. adieh mr martin ...
        2. -3
          20 November 2020 05: 24
          These are all excuses in favor of the poor - I haven't destroyed monuments to Bulgarians and Poles in Russia, unlike you - what kind of chauvinism is there? And where are NATO bases with missiles aimed at Moscow? In Poland and Bulgaria - these are the facts, and you are chauvinism, chauvinism ...
          1. 0
            20 November 2020 06: 49
            Quote: Finches
            These are all excuses in favor of the poor - I haven't destroyed monuments to Bulgarians and Poles in Russia, unlike you - what kind of chauvinism is there? And where are NATO bases with missiles aimed at Moscow? In Poland and Bulgaria - these are the facts, and you are chauvinism, chauvinism ...

            Yes it is, an excuse for the poor. I will say more sharply - they are still sure that we owe them something. Paradox?
            I had an interesting association “it's like with stray dogs you give them a piece of bread, but you don't know if she will bite you or not”!
            N somewhere like that.
          2. +4
            20 November 2020 14: 14
            I have not destroyed monuments in Russia to Bulgarians and Poles, unlike you - what chauvinism is there?

            I don’t know about the Poles, I don’t know, but on the topic of monuments in Bulgaria, I’m well aware! This is one of the most disgusting myths replicated by Ross. propaganda! Nothing to do with reality, nothing! Read my answer to Vladislav above!
            And where are NATO bases with missiles aimed at Moscow?

            What are the NATO missile bases in Bulgaria, where are they? Bulgaria 10 years ago categorically refused to accept American missiles on its territory! They were stationed in Romania! Recently the Bulgarian Minister of Defense once again stated that the country would not accept any American bases! There are no such plans!
            https://rg.ru/2019/12/06/bolgariia-oprovergla-informaciiu-o-vozvedenii-u-sebia-bazy-nato.html
            1. +3
              20 November 2020 15: 05
              Bulgaria joined NATO in 2003 when relations with the pact with Rocio were quite good. Nobody foresaw 2014 at that time, and I'll tell you a secret. We entered NATO not because of Russia, but because of one neighboring power which is also a NATO member.
        3. -1
          20 November 2020 21: 47


          Russian chauvinism or Bulgaria?
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. +2
              21 November 2020 00: 57
              You, Bulgarians, Anglo-Saxon litters - even though they seem to be Slavs, even unlike Poles, Orthodox! You are all traitors !!!! You are members of NATO - a bloc created with one purpose to destroy - Russia, which has thrown hundreds of thousands of its sons into battle for your freedom for many centuries, and this is a fact and it is not necessary to lyal! You are traitors! You are Judas! For this betrayal, you will not be damned on Earth, no! In heaven ... Already damned and you will not see prosperity as your ears! You will drag out the miserable existence of bedding!

              Cases of vandalism, in Bulgaria, no more than 18-20 over the last 30 years !!! Not a single monument has been damaged! Photos from 2011! You should inquire about the reaction of the Bulgarian society! General indignation and condemnation of the vandals! The monument was cleaned before evening!




              For comparison, in Russia over the past 30 years, a huge number of monuments have been destroyed! The phenomenon has grown to such an extent that the Duma has adopted the largest fines for vandalism in Europe! By the way, the Bolsheviks demolished from a thousand, monuments of Russian heroes! On some of them, they have survived only in Bulgaria! Nobody touched them here!
              Eugene, I would not want to be in your place when the time comes to correct itself before the Creator ... No. Curses have properties that will return to the sender when he casts them unfairly! Okay ... God be your judge!
          2. +1
            21 November 2020 00: 43
            Russian chauvinism or Bulgaria?

            Eugene, you got really good! negative I don't know if it's chauvinism, but definitely Russian! Because your Tolokonnikova did it! It was 15.10.2015/XNUMX/XNUMX !!! A whole group came from Russia, her husband was there too!



            They made some kind of film, and then the police took them away.
            1. 0
              21 November 2020 08: 36
              We have liberals and all sorts of Bulk, licking the Anglo-Saxon ass, are considered by the majority of the people to be scum and have 0,3% support from a marginal stratum of narrow-minded, and you have this leading party and, polishing boots for the Americans and Germans at NATO exercises, you rejoice when they famously hit targets in the form of a Russian soldier!
              1. +1
                21 November 2020 14: 19
                ..anglo-Saxon pad ... licking Anglo-Saxon ass ... by rabble ..

                Eugene, you were more than once allies with the Anglo-Saxons! Those same ... wink
                ... cleaning up NATO exercises ...

                And they were even going to become a NATO member, under Gorbachev and Yeltsin! By the way, this is one of the reasons why Gorbachev did not demand the conclusion of a Treaty on the non-expansion of NATO to the East! bully
                rejoice when those dashingly hit targets in the form of a Russian soldier!

                Reduce emotions Eugene, they have no basis! Yes
                https://topwar.ru/121594-svoenravnye-bolgary.html
                During the shooting at the ranges, the Bulgarian soldiers, together with their commanders, flatly refused to shoot, as, in their opinion, "Russian identification marks were placed on the targets, and they" will not shoot at the Russians! " hi
    3. 0
      28 November 2020 18: 09
      My opinion: all the Polish troubles and our troubles because of the Poles are rooted in 1-evil and greedy Catholicism, which declared us schismatics, and 2-the presence of a huge amount of destructive by nature gentry, this host of parasites and rednecks, enveloped in excessive pride. All Polish uprisings are usually gentry, not popular, and therefore doomed to the collapse and collapse of the state. Alexander! -You had to seriously thin out the crowd of these screamers, every 10 times, no less. It would be possible to establish a dialogue with the rest. But the descendants of the noblemen gonorovs to this day do not give anyone peace. This is the curse of Poland! Until it resolves the issue of the priests' interference in politics and does not end the gentry, it will never become a normal country
  6. +1
    19 November 2020 12: 04
    It was necessary even then to burn everything out there and fill it with salt.
    1. -2
      19 November 2020 12: 50
      Quote: Vdi73
      It was necessary even then to burn everything out there and fill it with salt.

      Are you a Russian anti-fascist?
      1. -3
        22 November 2020 11: 50
        No, I am a Russian who does not understand why in Russia any invader can commit outrage, and Russia should then show mercy to them.
  7. 0
    19 November 2020 12: 48
    Polish uprising of 1830-1831 Polish chauvinists against Russian benefactors


    "Benefactors" are not attacked or killed. And the reasons for the events of 1830-1831. much deeper than the trick of some small-town chauvinists. Otherwise, you can agree before:
    Vietnam uprising 1960-1974 North Vietnamese chauvinists against American benefactors

    and even
    Soviet uprising 1941-1945 Soviet chauvinists against German benefactors
    1. -2
      19 November 2020 15: 03
      To an immigrant - you seem to be a liberal, you blame everything domestic and somewhere you sing along with the Bulgarian Boyan (see above). For a patriot, in FIRST place should be the interests of the Fatherland, and only then everything else (if possible and permissible). The Polish elite, which for hundreds of years hated Russia and organized wars and rebellions against the Russians throughout the centuries, carries the bacillus of Russophobia and still cannot understand that Russia is too tough for them, gets food in these teeth - but not in the horse , not a hat. They have been sold to Western Europe at least since the 17th century, they hope for its help and that they regularly hand over them as glass containers. But fools are no use for a lesson. Read the book "Bloody Warsaw" early next year about the Kosciuszko rebellion and its suppression. Written on the basis of the diary of a Russian officer who took part in these events.
      1. +2
        19 November 2020 15: 23
        You seem to be a couch hooray-patriot with a nod to Nazism (since you have some kind of nations carrying some kind of "bacillus"). And so, of course - a powerful and terrible enemy for Russia was drawn, which she cannot defeat for two hundred years. You still go and compare Russia with different Moldavia and Georgia and revel in superiority over them? wassat
        1. +4
          19 November 2020 16: 00
          Something like that, yes. For example, Andorra, whether it is on the map, or not there, this does not in any way affect the development of the historical process. So it is with some other states on the planet, and Poland, in general, is among them.
          Even her participation in World War II ultimately boiled down to the fact that she was simply ground by caterpillars, first in one direction, then in the other.
          Having nothing personal against the Poles themselves, it is somehow impossible to perceive this state as a serious political player. And chronic Russophobia is just a clinical case. hi
          1. +5
            20 November 2020 14: 58
            Phobia is always a complex. In Bulgaria, the attitude towards Turks is ambiguous. Norwegians have to do with Swedes too. The Irish to the British, the Horvats to the Serbs, and so on ... but if in this period of history someone turned out to be weak and fell under someone else's power, you basically have to blame yourself
            1. +2
              20 November 2020 15: 19
              I completely agree with you, but I will add that any phobia is not a big brain. smile
            2. 0
              21 November 2020 12: 01
              Quote: Petio
              In Bulgaria, the attitude towards Turks is ambiguous.

              It's strange. And I thought - quite unambiguous! am
      2. +5
        19 November 2020 16: 26
        Quote: Oprichnik
        For a patriot, in FIRST place should be the interests of the Fatherland, and only then everything else (if possible and permissible).

        The meaning is the same as what I am writing:
        ... politics, including Russian, is always guided not by moral principles, but by interests!

        In this case, for every patriot it is true - ... interests FIRST Its Fatherland, and only then everything else !
        What then are the reproaches to the Poles? On what "moral" criterion, the author and you consider Polish patriots - "chauvinists", and Russian patriots - "benefactors"? Events related to the conflict of interests between Poland and Russia! Well, then you can't use moral and ethical definitions like "we are good and they are bad"!
        1. +1
          19 November 2020 16: 37
          And the Russians will then collapse the main template and it will turn out that all neighboring countries have their own interests and they often do not coincide with the Russians. Now, if the heroes coincide, and if they do not coincide, then chauvinists, separatists, nationalists, terrorists. You see, they are used to considering themselves the main and right everywhere, and when they are clicked on the nose, they immediately begin to whine, our friends are only the army and the navy, and all around are enemies and ungrateful traitors. Phantom imperialist pains do not let go.
          1. +1
            19 November 2020 17: 09
            Precisely said! good Neither add nor subtract! Respect! hi
            1. +1
              21 November 2020 12: 30
              And I still would add that the opinion of individual jingoistic patriots does not at all reflect the opinion of the entire people! But at the same time, very often it turns out that we are really right, and it would be much better for our neighbors to support Russia and not bite. But this is more a matter of reason, not morality. For example, the Polish leadership in the interwar period showed itself primarily ... unwise. So now, many small states support the policy of the global oligarchy, not noticing that it itself is already in a state of falling into the abyss.
        2. 0
          21 November 2020 12: 12
          Quote: pytar
          What then are the reproaches to the Poles?

          I would blame you for specific mean actions. "Warsaw Matins" and other similar cases, the fate of the Russians captured by the Polish in 1920, false accusations about the events of 1939, 1794 and much more. Tellingly, all of their grievances (unlike us) are carefully nurtured and promoted by the Poles at the state level, I once read a Polish history textbook. And of course, their unsightly actions are hushed up. But this is already the case everywhere ...
          1. +2
            21 November 2020 14: 24
            Reproaches all to all can show! Where the interaction took place, but it is more intense between neighbors! I don't know how in Polish textbooks, but in Russian forums, cave polyakophobia! Senseless, stupid, counterproductive! I believe it does not reflect the real, most likely there is a certain category of "couch fighters" for the salary ... bully I have communicated with the Poles more than once! Normal people, Russians are quite adequate!
            1. 0
              21 November 2020 20: 58
              Yes, I also talked with the Poles, normal people, they treat us adequately, but the attitude towards Russia is usually inverted, repeating the Western (and native Polish) agitation.
  8. +1
    20 November 2020 21: 02
    Poland all the time reproaches Russia for imperial ambitions, and even today dreams of Polish imperial ambitions of Greater Poland from sea to sea. So it's not the Poles who scold the Russians ...
  9. 0
    25 November 2020 10: 21
    Russia and Poland have always had a difficult relationship. But in fairness, several points should be noted:
    1. As history shows, "not all Poles are equally useful" in the sense that not all Poles are Russophobes. This became especially evident in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Many Polish officers faithfully served the Russian throne. If you watch the Polish film "The Witch Doctor", you can also see several similar moments there. For ordinary Poles, the fact of being part of the Russian Empire was not something so frankly negative. For them, like for most ordinary people, the main thing was a piece of bread on the table, clean clothes and a roof over their heads. And Russia provided all this well.
    2. At the time of the "last derban" of Poland after the 12th year, Russia had a chance to clean up Galicia instead of Poland, and many believe that this was exactly what should have been done - the population loyal to Russia, the proximity of culture and language made Galicia more attractive for Empire. However, they chose Poland. Why? Yes, everything is very simple - we increased the buffer in relation to Europe - the memory of Napoleon's Great Army was too fresh. Although the CPU at that time was not just a hole, but, let the moderators forgive me, the real "asshole of the world", where I had to invest a lot in order to bring at least some decent and suitable form for the army. By the way, the deployment of Russian troops in Poland led to several positive moments - a general improvement in the quality of roads, the development of industries (primarily for the production of clothing and footwear) and, of course, the development of agriculture (the army needs to be fed), so the entry into the Republic of Ingushetia for Poland turned into a really massive development of everything and everyone. But again, it developed in Poland to the detriment of the interior regions of Ingushetia.
    3. And finally. A consistent policy on the Russification of Poland (after the games with all sorts of seimas and constitutions ended) really began to bear fruit. Of course, a certain percentage of Polish chauvinists remained - they continued to yearn for independence, but in general many Poles began to identify themselves with Russia. Especially indicative was the moment (after independence) when Poland began to develop its fleet - "The Polish fleet was provided with 72 % by officers from the Russian fleet, 6% from the German and 22% from the Austrian. It is indicative that the Deputy Minister of War Major General Daniil Konarzhevsky (former colonel of the Russian Imperial Army) at one of the patriotic rallies issued something like this - "Rzeczpospolita then divided among themselves the Germans, the Austrians and we ... in the sense of the Russian ". Curtain." (https://zen.yandex.ru/media/marin/flot-polshi-spisok-statei-i-spravochnye-dannye-5fbb6324ffe1de7f5c4bbd8d)
    So the Empire did not fall apart, it was quite possible to expect a completely loyal and Russified Poland by the middle of the 20th century.
  10. 0
    28 November 2020 18: 05
    Let me remind you: there were five partitions of Poland with the participation of Russia in 1772, 1792, 1795, 1815. and in 1939 with the participation of the USSR. And, accordingly, several quite natural national uprisings and the struggle for independence in 1794, 1812, 1830-1831 and 1863-1864, extremely brutally suppressed by tsarism.

    But, in the end, it all ended with Poland falling away first from the Republic of Ingushetia, and then in the form of a satellite and from the USSR - they could not keep it that way (however, this applies to both Ukraine and Belarus). She is now an independent country, but extremely Russophobic, and it is quite understandable why (who did not understand, see above). But how many spears were broken, blood was shed, people (s) were ruined ...
    1. 0
      11 January 2021 06: 19
      An informative article, but about the Vienna Congress (1815), which restored Poland, I think it is necessary to dwell in more detail. Because the whole Eurosbrod was against this, and only after our Emperor Alexander I said that he was standing on Polish soil "and only let someone try to move him" was the Polish statehood restored. That is, Poland was restored as a result of the ultimatum of our emperor, and not the agreement of the European countries (why our academics and alternative specialists do not put this moment in sight). Further, after the restoration of Poland, the previously captured A.V. Suvorov, Tedeor Kosciuszko, the leader of the Polish uprising, during which in 1794 in Warsaw 4000 Orthodox, i.e., Russian-speaking population were massacred. (After the suppression of this uprising, our troops did not stand on ceremony and answered "an eye for an eye", in contrast to observing the "tea ceremonies" when we entered Paris (1815). , did not enter Warsaw, for which he was presented with a snuffbox). Of course, with all due respect to our Emperor Alexander I, we must not forget about the consequences of gentleness, or rather unwillingness to make serious decisions by the protege Constantine (son of Alexander I). Firstly, because of his uncertainty about entering the throne, there was an uprising of the Decembrists, and secondly, he did not take measures to prevent the events about which the author of the article writes, but I hope OURS will tell about this better than me someday !!!! real historians. Unfortunately, after the events of the 20th century and the termination of the Collective Security Treaty (1991) of the Warsaw Pact countries, Poland faded into the background, but in vain! After all, after that, she joined NATO, and she is the only one ready to pay all the expenses of her stay on her territory, because, in the event of NATO leaving, Germany can present the selected lands under the Treaty of Versailles (1815), which make up practically the entire territory of today's Poland! !!!
  11. 0
    29 November 2020 10: 57
    Yeah, retreated to Polotsk. And then they fled to Australia and Borussia. Maybe they still retreated to Plock? There is such a city in Poland
  12. 0
    3 December 2020 10: 35
    The next article will be like this-
    Battle of Borodino - Russian chauvinists against French benefactors
  13. 0
    8 December 2020 14: 35
    It's funny. When Poles fight for national independence, it is chauvinism. When the Russians fight for national independence is Heroism, a Holy War of Liberation and glory to the Heroes ... Double standards are so double ... laughing
  14. 0
    9 January 2021 13: 52
    One devil, against the will of the Polish people, by force alone did not succeed in keeping them in Russian paradise.
  15. +1
    11 January 2021 06: 18
    An informative article, but about the Vienna Congress (1815), which restored Poland, I think it is necessary to dwell in more detail. Because the whole Eurosbrod was against this, and only after our Emperor Alexander I said that he was standing on Polish soil "and only let someone try to move him" was the Polish statehood restored. That is, Poland was restored as a result of the ultimatum of our emperor, and not the agreement of the European countries (why our academics and alternative specialists do not put this moment in sight). Further, after the restoration of Poland, the previously captured A.V. Suvorov, Tedeor Kosciuszko, the leader of the Polish uprising, during which in 1794 in Warsaw 4000 Orthodox, i.e., Russian-speaking population were massacred. (After the suppression of this uprising, our troops did not stand on ceremony and answered "an eye for an eye", in contrast to observing the "tea ceremonies" when we entered Paris (1815). , did not enter Warsaw, for which he was presented with a snuffbox). Of course, with all due respect to our Emperor Alexander I, we must not forget about the consequences of gentleness, or rather unwillingness to make serious decisions by the protege Constantine (son of Alexander I). Firstly, because of his uncertainty about entering the throne, there was an uprising of the Decembrists, and secondly, he did not take measures to prevent the events about which the author of the article writes, but I hope OURS will tell about this better than me someday !!!! real historians. Unfortunately, after the events of the 20th century and the termination of the Collective Security Treaty (1991) of the Warsaw Pact countries, Poland faded into the background, but in vain! After all, after that, she joined NATO, and she is the only one ready to pay all the expenses of her stay on her territory, because, in the event of NATO leaving, Germany can present the selected lands under the Treaty of Versailles (1815), which make up practically the entire territory of today's Poland! !!!
    1. 0
      13 January 2021 17: 42
      ++++ when you look at the autocracy's policy towards Poland ... you don't even know what to call it ... ((I have no words ... they raised and nurtured a strong, vicious enemy with their own hands ...
  16. 0
    13 January 2021 17: 38
    a very interesting article ... the creation of this kingdom of Poland, all these eternal Russian "privileges" and "liberties" to the outskirts led to big problems ... the Poles later "thanked" them with bloody uprisings and by investing heavily in the Ukrainization of Little Russia ... ...
  17. 0
    12 February 2021 09: 19
    Can anyone explain why Russia even got into Poland and divided it up and tried to reformat it five (!) Times? It was necessary for the close-minded kings and general secretaries to understand that everything is different there: the state. device, political orientation, history, religion, economics, mentality. In addition, 3 or more million Polish Jews were hanged around their necks ... So, out of thoughtlessness, they made themselves a permanent enemy from the Slavs.

    And by the way, because of this policy, the Poles have become one of the purest Slavic nations, which the Russians cannot boast of ...
  18. 0
    29 May 2022 10: 28
    My great-great-grandfather then became lame, but received a personal nobility.