Military Review

The crisis of the Ottoman Empire and the evolution of the situation of the Gentiles

384

The motto of the Ottoman Empire was: Devlet-i Ebed-müddet ("Eternal State"). Over the centuries, this state has grown with new territories, reaching its maximum size at the turn of the XVI-XVII centuries.



Sick man of Europe


However, the laws of historical development are inexorable, and since the end of the XNUMXth century this state was in a state of permanent crisis. Attempts at modernization, undertaken by some sultans (Ahmed III, Mahmud I, Mustafa III, Selim III, Mahmud II, etc.), met with resistance in archaic Turkish society and did not have much success. Torn apart by internal contradictions, the Ottoman Empire suffered military defeats and lost region after region.

On the eve of the Crimean War, Russian Emperor Nicholas I, in a conversation with British Ambassador Seymour, aptly noted:

"Turkey is the sick man of Europe."

This aphoristic stamp was almost officially used by diplomats from different countries until the complete collapse and disintegration of this empire. Which is reflected in numerous cartoons. At this time (during the Bosnian crisis), Turkey silently watches as Austria-Hungary drags Herzegovina to itself, and Russia - Bulgaria:


And this is how Great Britain and Russia persuade Turkey to conclude an alliance with one of these countries:

The crisis of the Ottoman Empire and the evolution of the situation of the Gentiles

And here Sultan Abdul Hamid II, watching Nicholas II and British Prime Minister Robert Gascoigne-Cecil help the Japanese Emperor Meiji feed the Chinese Empress Tsixi with cannonballs from the International Pill Box, rejoices:

“Glory be to Allah, we found another“ sick person ”! Maybe they'll lag behind me a little. "


On the map below, you can see how its provinces fell away from the Ottoman Empire.


Anger at Gentiles


Failures angered the Ottomans - both rulers and ordinary Turks. And more and more often this anger was directed at the Gentiles.

Once upon a time, the tolerance of the Ottomans made life in this empire attractive even for Christians and Jews, who (according to the Qur'an) were considered not pagans, but “People of the Book” (“ahl-ul-kitab”), having the status of “protected (“ dhimmi ”) ... As a result, on the territory of the Ottoman state, non-Muslim communities, called millets, were formed - Jewish, Armenian-Gregorian and Greek-Orthodox.

The sultans and rulers of the Sanjaks, as a rule, did not insist on the adoption of Islam by Christians and Jews. The fact is that the presence of non-Muslim subjects for the Turkish rulers was economically profitable: they were additionally charged a poll tax (jizye), land tax (kharaj), military taxes (on the grounds that non-believers did not serve in the army). In addition, officials had the right to involve the "infidels" in the construction of fortresses, roads and bridges and (if necessary) use their horses. It is not without reason that all communities of people who did not profess Islam in the Ottoman Empire were called the word "reaya" ("flock", "flock"). Christians were also called "kafirs" ("infidels"), and Jews - "yahudi".

A Muslim had the right to marry a woman of a different religion and, of course, could have non-Muslim slaves. The "unfaithful" could not have a Muslim in his service and marry a Muslim woman. But all these restrictions did not seem too burdensome against the background of what was happening in Europe, engulfed in religious wars, inquisition processes, and Jewish pogroms.

Jewish communities in the Ottoman Empire


Jews lived in Asia Minor since the XNUMXth century BC. e. Attempts to Christianize them, undertaken by some Byzantine emperors, were unsuccessful. The Ottomans, whose state one after the other included regions with Jewish communities (Jews lived, for example, in Gallipoli, Ankara, Edirne, Izmir, Thessaloniki; under Murad I, the Jews of Thrace and Thessaly also became subjects of the Ottomans), on the adoption of Islam by the Jews, as we already said, did not insist.

Sultan Orhan, who captured the city of Bursa in 1326 (which became the second capital of the Ottoman state), allowed the Jews who lived there to build a synagogue.

In addition to the Jews who permanently lived in the permanently expanding territory of the Ottoman state, Jews from other countries actively moved here. Thus, two groups of Ashkenazi arrived in Turkey in the second half of the XIV century: from Hungary in 1376 and from France in 1394. New waves of European Ashkenazi settlers were noted in 1421-1453.


Ashkenazi Synagogue in Galata District, Istanbul

In 1454, Chief Rabbi Edirne Yitzhak Tsarfati appealed to his European co-religionists with an appeal for resettlement to the Ottoman lands. This letter contained the following words:

“I have heard of suffering, more bitter than death, which befell our brothers in Germany as a result of tyrannical laws, forced baptism and expulsion that occur daily. Teachers, friends and acquaintances, I, Yitzhak Tsarfati, proclaim to you that Turkey is a land in which there is no flaw and where everything will be good for you. The road to Turkey is the road to a better life ... The benefits of this land and the kindness of its people are nowhere to be found in Germany. "

This appeal was heard and triggered a new flow of migrants.

After the conquest of Constantinople in 1453, Sultan Mehmed II (whose mother was a Jewish concubine brought from Italy), in order to "dilute" the Greek population of the new capital, ordered people of other origins and religions to be resettled to this city, including many Jews.

Over time, the proportion of the Jewish population in Constantinople reached 10%. The religious leaders of the Jews in Constantinople had equal rights with the Greek and Armenian patriarchs. Soon this city became one of the main European centers of Jewish learning and culture.

In 1492, under the eighth Sultan Bayezid II, the ships of the Kemal Reis squadron evacuated to the territory of the Ottoman state a part of the Sephardic Jews expelled from Spain by the "Catholic monarchs" Isabella and Ferdinand. Bayazid commented on the famous Edict of Granada with the words:

"How can I call King Ferdinand wise if he enriched my country, while he himself became a beggar."


Another version of this phrase is as follows:

"Is it not because Ferdinand is revered as a wise king, because he put in a lot of efforts to ruin his country and enrich ours?"

It is believed that about 40 thousand people arrived from Andalusia to Turkey, and about the same number later moved from Portugal and Sicily.

In 1516 Palestine was conquered by the Ottomans. There were also large Jewish communities in Damascus, Baghdad, Beirut, Aleppo and other cities captured by the Turks.

The attitude towards Jews in the Ottoman Empire often depended on the personality of the ruler who came to power.

For example, Suleiman I the Magnificent refused the offer of his son-in-law and Grand Vizier Rustem Pasha to expel Jews from the country and, in general, patronized them. When in 1545 in Amasya some Jews were accused of ritual murder of non-Jewish children and adding their blood to matzo, this sultan declared:

“Since this community pays me taxes, I do not want any of its members to suffer from attacks or injustice. Any such claims will be considered in the Sultan's court, and will not be considered anywhere else without my direct order. ”


Relapses of these accusations, called "blood libel", happened more than once, and even in 1840 Sultan Abdul-Majid I was forced to publish a firman prohibiting the persecution of Jews for such cases in Turkey.

But Murad III was remembered for the persecution of the Jews, who, according to some authors, were saved from mass beating in 1579 only by a large sum of money presented either to the mother of this Sultan and the commander of the Janissary corps, or to Murad himself. His great-grandson Murad IV executed the head of the Jewish delegation from Thessaloniki in 1636.

As for interethnic friction, oddly enough, most often Ottoman Jews entered into conflicts not with Muslims, but with Greeks and Armenians. And even during the Second Greco-Turkish War of 1919-1922. many of the Jews suffered precisely from the "Europeans." But excesses sometimes occurred with Muslim neighbors. So, in March 1908, the Arabs staged a Jewish pogrom in the city of Jaffa.

5 deputies of Jewish origin


What niche did the Jews occupy in the Ottoman Empire? There were many good gunsmiths among the Jewish settlers. Thanks to them, the rearmament of the Ottoman army took place in a short time, which, as a result, under Selim I and his son Suleiman I, became one of the most advanced in the world. The Jew Sinan Pasha was a comrade-in-arms and one of the successors of the great corsair and Ottoman admiral Khair ad-Din Barbarossa: he was called the "Great Jew from Smyrna." One of Sinan's sons also became a Turkish admiral.

The Sephardic brothers, David and Shmuel ibn Nakhmias, expelled from Spain, already in 1493 opened a printing house in the Constantinople region of Galata, which printed books in Hebrew.

Among the Jews, there were also traditionally many jewelers, glassblowers (especially many of them settled in Edirne), merchants, usurers, translators and doctors. It is known that representatives of three generations of the Sephardic Hamon family were the physicians of four Ottoman sultans - Bayezid II, Selim I, Suleiman I and Selim II. Shlomo ben Natan Ashkenazi was the physician of Sultan Murad III.

Kiera (a Jewess who independently conducts trade) Esther Khandali from a wealthy Sephardic family was a close friend of Nurbanu Sultan, the wife of Selim II (son of Suleiman the Magnificent), holding a position close to the head of her personal chancellery. Nurbanu was a Venetian and through Esther she kept in touch with her homeland. Esther held the same position under the Greek woman Safiya, the beloved concubine of Murad III. However, some believe that this kiera began her court career even during the reign of the famous Khyurrem Sultan - Roksolana (which, by the way, some authors call not a Slav, but a Jew).

The Jewish merchant Joseph Nasi, who supplied wine to Selim II (one of whose nicknames was "The Drunkard"), became a confidant of this sultan, competing with the Grand Vizier Mehmed Sokkola in his influence over him.


The portrait of Joseph Nasi has not survived, so the audience of the series "The Magnificent Century" saw him as such a young dandy.

Under Ahmed III, the doctor and diplomat Daniel de Fonseca played an important role, and under Selim III, Meir Ajiman became the banker of the divan (in fact, the minister of finance). During the reign of Abdul-Majid I, two Jews (Bkhor Ashkenazi and David Karmonu) became members of the Divan (government of the country).

At the turn of the 1887th and 5th centuries, about half a million Jews lived on the territory of the Ottoman Empire. It is known that in 2010 17 deputies of Jewish origin were elected to the parliament of this country. The Jews of the Ottoman Empire were generally sympathetic to the Young Turk movement, but after the victory of the republican forces in Turkey, the position of the nationalists strengthened. The number of anti-Jewish protests increased. The new authorities began to pursue a policy of Turkicization of the Jews, which caused the outflow of the Jewish population from the country. In September XNUMX, only about XNUMX Jews lived in Turkey.

Ottoman period in the history of Armenia


Armenia was conquered by the Ottomans in the 1431th century - under Sultan Selim II. But the Armenians lived in Constantinople even before the Turkish conquest. The first Armenian church (of St. Sarkis) in this city was built in the middle of the XIV century. In XNUMX, the church of St. George the Illuminator was erected in its place.

Sultan Mehmed II Fatih, after the conquest of Constantinople, in order to create a kind of counterbalance to the large Greek population of this city, began to resettle people of a different religion to the new capital - Muslims, Jews and Armenians, who, although they were Christians, did not obey the Greek patriarch. In 1461, in order to further weaken his influence, Mehmed II issued an edict according to which the Holy See of the Armenian Patriarchate was established in Constantinople.


The building of the Armenian Patriarchate, Istanbul, modern photography

The power of the Armenian patriarchs extended to Christian communities that were not included in the so-called "Byzantine millet" (the community of Greek Orthodox Christians of the Ottoman Empire). They were Georgians, Albanians, Assyrians, Copts and Ethiopians who professed Christianity. Bishop Hovakim (Hovagim) of Bursa became the first patriarch of the Armenian Church. In the years 1475-1479. Armenians actively moved to Constantinople from Crimea, in 1577 under Murad III - from Nakhichevan and Tabriz.

In the Ottoman Empire, the Armenians, who had the status of “protected” (dhimmis) and “reliable nation” (Millet-i Sadika), managed to preserve their identity, culture and language. In addition to Armenia proper, the Armenians constantly lived in Constantinople, in Cilicia, in the Van, Bitlis and Harput vilayets.

Of course, the life of ordinary Armenians in this empire cannot be called easy and carefree. However, representatives of this nation were part of the cultural and economic elite of the Ottoman state. In the 18th century, 16 of the country's XNUMX largest bankers were Armenians. There were many Armenians among doctors, jewelers and merchants.

Armenian Jeremiah Kemurchyan founded a printing house in Constantinople in 1677, where books were printed in Armenian and Arabic. Topkapi, Beylerbey, Dolmabahce, Beshiktash and Yildiz palaces were built under the leadership of Armenian architects.

Some Armenians have reached quite high government posts, becoming ministers and ambassadors of the Ottoman Empire in Christian countries.

Under Sultan Abdul-Hamid II, three Armenians in turn were his personal treasurers.

According to the 1914 census, 1,5 million Armenians lived in the Ottoman Empire. At that time, there were 47 Armenian churches in Constantinople (over 3 thousand throughout the empire) and 67 schools.

The Armenian Dadiani family controlled the military industry of the empire, and Galust Sarkis Gulbenkian was the main financial advisor to the Turkish government and the director of the National Bank of this country, one of the founders of the Turkish Oil Company.


Calouste Gulbenkian

Armenian pogroms. And in Karabakh


According to some reports, as early as 1918, up to 80% of industry and trade in the Ottoman Empire were controlled by subjects of Armenian origin, which caused discontent among the indigenous Turks. Yes, and the authorities of this country did not completely trust the Armenians, suspecting them of sympathy for geopolitical opponents. These suspicions and animosities intensified especially with the outbreak of the First World War.

Armenian pogroms began at the end of the 1894th century under Sultan Abdul-Hamid II (in 1896-1899 and in 1902). Other outbreaks of violence were recorded in Adana in 1909 and 1915, where (in addition to Armenians) Assyrians and Greeks also suffered. As you know, everything ended with a large-scale massacre of Armenians in XNUMX.


Russian soldier over the skulls of Armenians killed by the Turks in the village of Sheikhalan, 1915

And in 1918-1920, large-scale and bloody interethnic clashes took place in areas of mixed residence of Armenians and Azerbaijanis - in Baku, Nakhichevan region, Karabakh, Zangezur, the former Erivan province. In the Shemakha district, then 24 thousand Armenians were killed in 17 villages, in the Nukhinsky district - 20 thousand Armenians (in 20 villages). A similar situation was noted in Agdam and Ganja. The Armenian army and the Dashnaks, in turn, “liberated” and “cleared” the Azerbaijanis from the Novobayazet, Erivan, Echmiadzin and Sharur-Daralagez districts.

Later, by the decision of the Dashnaktsutyun party, Operation Nemesis was carried out, during which some high-ranking Turkish officials responsible for organizing the massacres of Armenians in 1915, as well as the leaders of Azerbaijan, involved in the massacre of Armenians in 1918-1920, were killed.

Operation "Nemesis" and its heroes will be discussed in one of the following articles. We will also talk about the Armenian-Azerbaijani clashes of 1918-1920, the Turkish-Armenian war of 1922.

And next time it will tell about the situation of the peoples professing Christianity in the European part of the Ottoman Empire.
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  1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 16 November 2020 05: 02
    23
    Well colleagues, we sharpen pens and pour ink into inkwells !!!
    Valery thank you very much for the unexpected continuation.
    1. Bar1
      Bar1 16 November 2020 09: 41
      -6
      to the author, and where does the first illustration of the article come from?

      In the English translation of the word Turks, for some reason it is a turkey. But in all languages, the tour is a bull. Again through this English we see that the original meaning is distorted.
      As for the Jews who suddenly turned out to be "good gunsmiths", for the first time I hear: from Faithfanger or what?
      The fact that the state is getting richer with Jews is just a ridiculous phrase. Latin America did not accept Jews from Europe, probably because they are "good gunsmiths."
      The Jews themselves believe that it was the USSR that collapsed. About Turkey, one can say exactly the same thing, that it was they who weakened the Ataman-Ottoman Empire.
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 16 November 2020 11: 06
        13
        The Jews themselves believe that it was the USSR that collapsed. About Turkey, one can say exactly the same thing, that it was they who weakened the Ataman-Ottoman Empire.

        Here are the "bastards", in the work of "War of Pagan Rus" I met the version that Babylon, Assyria and Persia were also destroyed by the Jews. They slipped their daughters into the zones to the rulers, occupied shady posts and ruined, ruined, ruined !!!
        Now, seriously, you don’t want to consider the deeper processes of development of states! Or is it banal to blame a Jew, a Ukrainian, a Chinese, but the masters of the West have forgotten !!
        Or maybe everything is more banal - the Skripal Cat !!!
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 16 November 2020 11: 26
          +9
          Gumilyov also mentioned similar things.

          Boleslav Prus - both in "Pharaoh" and "Kukla" had interesting Notes for completely different eras.

          By the way, Feuchtwanger deserves attention. I would take part in the discussion of his books with great interest. What you can believe and what you can doubt.
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 16 November 2020 13: 11
            10
            Quote: Korsar4
            Gumilyov also mentioned similar things.

            Boleslav Prus - both in "Pharaoh" and "Kukla" had interesting Notes for completely different eras.

            By the way, Feuchtwanger deserves attention. I would take part in the discussion of his books with great interest. What you can believe and what you can doubt.

            Have you read the Jew Zyus? So - no one seduced the daughter of the real Zyus and whether she really was on a voyage - he just quarreled with the boss, but he really gave himself into the hands of "justice" laughing
            1. Korsar4
              Korsar4 16 November 2020 16: 55
              +4
              Yes. One of the key books by Feuchtwanger.
        2. vladcub
          vladcub 16 November 2020 12: 24
          10
          Namesake, greetings. As for the "Skripals' cat" - your cat troubles. Bar is right: Gerostrrat, real name is Hurwitz Yankel. He set fire to the temple, and sparks from the fire scattered around the world.
          The world's best Juvilliers are 'Tartarians.
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 16 November 2020 13: 29
            +9
            I had one cat called Herostratus, he picked it up as a blind kitten in some hole near Odessa. They were fed with milk whey, and a condom (fresh) was used as a syringe. He brought the kitten to Moscow and he lived here for 25 years.
            1. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 16 November 2020 15: 37
              +7
              I had one cat called Herostratus

              hmm .. Uncle Kostya, why Herostratus? No, I understand about Lucky Luciano. yes Only yesterday they watched a documentary film about him, he remembered you with a kind word. drinks Why Herostratus? Did he set your shed on fire? wassat However - you know how to give names to cats ... good
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 16 November 2020 15: 55
                +9
                I don’t know why, it’s just that his face was so clear and snide. smile
                1. Pane Kohanku
                  Pane Kohanku 16 November 2020 16: 03
                  +9
                  I don’t know why, it’s just that his face was so clear and snide.

                  One could then still call Diogenes or Socrates. There were also those trolls .. especially the first one. laughing
                  1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                    Kote Pan Kokhanka 16 November 2020 17: 00
                    +9
                    Quote: Pan Kohanku
                    I don’t know why, it’s just that his face was so clear and snide.

                    One could then still call Diogenes or Socrates. There were also those trolls .. especially the first one. laughing

                    Well, and instead of a cat's house, select a barrel of sauerkraut for the cat !!! So that life does not seem like honey. And also get a dog named Plato !!! I think when the cat from such "ancient Greek" happiness dumps, anyone who finds it will call him Herostratus.
                    1. Pane Kohanku
                      Pane Kohanku 16 November 2020 17: 09
                      +8
                      Well, and instead of a cat's house, select a barrel of sauerkraut for the cat !!!

                      to the question of cats ... Did you buy a house for Sonya? drinks I'm not mine. Prefers either pizza boxes or windowsill. I spent a couple of weeks on this couch (see photo), as I bought it, it no longer fits. request
                      1. Lexus
                        Lexus 17 November 2020 00: 39
                        +4
                        Kolya, hello friend! hi
                        Even absolutely domestic cats love, if not for a walk, then new places. My first, as a kitten, loved pots. You go into the kitchen to cook dinner, and from there your eyes look at you. Was black - you can become a stutterer.
                      2. Phil77
                        Phil77 17 November 2020 14: 01
                        +3
                        Quote: lexus
                        Was black - you can become a stutterer.

                        Greetings!

                        Owners, what are you doing? Didn't you notice that I grew up?!?!
                      3. Lexus
                        Lexus 17 November 2020 17: 33
                        +3
                        Your handsome man? Muzzle like a disgruntled boss. smile Mine, when it ceased to fit entirely, lost interest in the dishes ... But not in the stove. You look - there is a "spiral mustache" - then again "cooked". laughing
                      4. Phil77
                        Phil77 17 November 2020 18: 09
                        +3
                        Quote: lexus
                        Your handsome man?

                        She's one of the * pantries * of the internet!
                        This one is mine, Phil II.
                      5. Lexus
                        Lexus 17 November 2020 18: 13
                        +3
                        I slept sweetly before the photo session, I already wrapped my ear. smile
                      6. Phil77
                        Phil77 17 November 2020 18: 15
                        +2
                        That's for sure! wink
                      7. Lexus
                        Lexus 17 November 2020 18: 20
                        +2
                        "I love to Sleep, and Sleep loves me. But the evil morning does not want us to be together." (FROM)
      2. Kwas
        Kwas 17 November 2020 23: 15
        +1
        Quote: Pane Kohanku
        One could then still call Diogenes or Socrates.

        So what. One of my friends had a dog called Socratic.
  • Catfish
    Catfish 16 November 2020 13: 22
    11
    They gave the rulers their daughters as wives


    According to Feuchtwanger: Titus Flavius ​​was also "slipped" the Jewish princess Berenice, but the temple was still not saved. request
    And in later times there was something similar, I don't remember who exactly, but Stalin said something like this: "Why are you all marrying Jewish women, is it smeared over there, or what?" I can't vouch for the accuracy of the quote, but the meaning was something like this.
    I do not suffer from anti-Semitism, but this ("slip") seems to be true.
    1. Lexus
      Lexus 17 November 2020 00: 35
      +4
      Uncle Kostya, hello dear! hi
      25 feline years is under 120 human! Taking off my hat!
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 17 November 2020 00: 43
        +4
        Lyosha, hello! hi
        The cat was seen off on his last journey with the whole family, my son and I dug a grave in the park, under a tree with a sapper shovel. We returned home and remembered something, such is the case.
        1. Lexus
          Lexus 17 November 2020 00: 53
          +5
          Oh, this sapper shovel ... All the graves of the closest creatures not from the category of people dug for her. The last beat of the heart at the extreme, Murzik, heard. He was dying on his mother's bed 2 years after her. I got so angry. He had kidney problems, before his death he lost 7 times weight from 2 kg. But not a single gray hair at 16,5 years old. When in the last weeks of his life he carried him out for a walk, they thought it was a kitten.
          1. Astra wild2
            Astra wild2 17 November 2020 16: 20
            +3
            My husband and I had a cat "Sentinel" (our first) loved to lie on the BMP tower. One morning he went out and was not seen again. Then there was the Tramp, but not for long. How we got an apartment, near the garbage cans, they caught a cat - Mura, she lived with us for 4 years and disappeared, the current Puzik, her son, is dumber than mom
            1. Phil77
              Phil77 17 November 2020 18: 13
              0
              Quote: Astra wild2
              Puzik, her son, dumber than mom

              Woo! And I already have a third cat / or rather the second, because the first was a cat-Vasyona / and there were NO stupid ones among them. And I didn't come across any of my friends either. What luck? recourse
              1. Phil77
                Phil77 17 November 2020 18: 22
                +3
                Faith! Do not be offended, but the definition of a fluffy people is stupid, does not fit the word at all. It's just that each / every / cat or cat has its own character. Absolutely different from the other, even if they are brothers and sisters. They do nothing from under the stick, only to * hunt *. Demand first of all from his two-legged friends! hi
                1. Korsar4
                  Korsar4 17 November 2020 21: 47
                  +2
                  I admire.
                  It feels like I'm learning.

                  Or even earlier.
        2. Astra wild2
          Astra wild2 17 November 2020 13: 44
          +3
          I wish you health. In the morning there was no time to look, but at lunchtime she opened it and almost roared with resentment: complete emptiness in History.
          In our free time we like to say: women, childhood, we go around politics: for the young it DOESN’t matter what is dear to us, quarrels over power? We still have to work together. Therefore, Valery's materials were very appropriate, today I had to climb into the old materials
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 17 November 2020 13: 51
            +4
            What to do: "when it is thick - when it is empty." smile
            I also wish you health and complete well-being. hi
            1. Astra wild2
              Astra wild2 17 November 2020 16: 03
              +1
              Thanks for your kind words
        3. Phil77
          Phil77 17 November 2020 14: 06
          +4
          Quote: Sea Cat
          The cat was seen off on its last journey

          Greetings Konstantin!
          It was, it was with me! I buried the first Phil, lived for 16 years. And * went to the rainbow *, well, it's just tears. Quietly, quietly raised his head, tried to meow and .... that's it.

          That was how he was.
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 17 November 2020 14: 18
            +4
            It is clear that our Gerka was also slowly fading away ... and quietly. Okay, let's not talk about sad things. Lucky, over there, is lying behind me on the bed and sleeping so sweetly that they take envy. smile
  • vladcub
    vladcub 16 November 2020 12: 32
    +6
    Bar, about the gunsmiths, I somehow did not think about the nationality of the gunsmiths, and now what can I remember: Browning, Smith? Comrades, who knows? Prompt
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 16 November 2020 13: 26
      +6
      During the Renaissance, Milanese were famous gunsmiths! Their fame, especially for the manufacture of armor, attracted dukes, kings and emperors !!! Then the Germans, Brundguds, Czechs, Austrians and many others took over the palm. It is problematic to single out a "Jewish trace" in this.
      It must be remembered that in the Middle Ages, guild production was practiced. With a complex element of becoming a specialist (master).
      So the presence of high competence is not a national issue, but a family issue !!!
      1. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 16 November 2020 15: 32
        +4
        Browning

        Despite the fact that Browning's middle name was Moses - Moses, in our opinion - he was a good American. Church names (Jewish in origin) were used both then and now. For example, the papa of the offended killer of Lermontov - Martynov - was called Solomon. He was a Russian nobleman! drinks
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 16 November 2020 17: 03
          +5
          So they have a lot of such "biblical" names, in the States there seems to be a city called Zion. By the way, the "textbook-Russian" names Ivan and Maria, can you tell me whose roots they have? laughing
          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 16 November 2020 17: 16
            +4
            By the way, the "textbook-Russian" names Ivan and Maria, can you tell me whose roots they have?

            Taki just thought about it the other day! drinks Well, what can you do? As well as Peter, and Paul, and Michael ... And you and Anton - well, just ancient Roman names! good drinks True, his (Anton's) name - the name Antonin - was once banned in Rome ... wink
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 16 November 2020 17: 40
              +4
              And for some reason I thought that my name had Greek roots. It doesn't make any difference though.
              "If anyone climbed up to me, so he is a Tatar." (C) Although I doubt it ... laughing
              1. Lexus
                Lexus 17 November 2020 01: 01
                +3
                Duc and the main "American" - "Uncle Sam" - is in fact Samuel, and it doesn't matter if he is a white Colt, or our black contemporary L. Jackson. The name "Alexei" also has Greek roots - so we are quite scientific brothers. drinks
    2. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 16 November 2020 13: 38
      +9
      Quote: vladcub
      Bar, about the gunsmiths, I somehow did not think about the nationality of the gunsmiths, and now what can I remember: Browning, Smith? Comrades, who knows? Prompt

      Hello! I don't remember famous Jewish gunsmiths - Germans, Russians, Anglo-Saxons, French
      Aircraft and tank designers - yes, they were
      But in principle, small lots of cold weapons and pistols of all kinds should have been good for the Jews - there generations were engaged in cutting stones, jewelry, and they studied in different countries from representatives of different world schools. It is logical that they also dealt with weapons according to the same principle.
    3. Catfish
      Catfish 16 November 2020 13: 42
      10
      I didn’t think about it either. I can say with some certainty that the Israeli gunsmith Uziel Gal, the author of the notorious Uzi, is certainly a Jew.

      And also Israel Galili (nee Israel Balashnikov) shoveled the Finnish copy of our AK into the Galil assault rifle.
      1. Bar1
        Bar1 16 November 2020 14: 58
        +1
        Quote: Sea Cat
        to say that the Israeli gunsmith Uziel Gal, the author of the notorious Uzi, is certainly a Jew.

        Quote: Sea Cat
        And also Israel Galili (nee Israel Balashnikov) shoveled the Finnish copy of our AK into the Galil assault rifle.


        that the Jews know about the Gauls since they call themselves that.
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 16 November 2020 15: 48
          +6
          They need to be addressed with this question, I am not aware. request
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 16 November 2020 16: 36
            +8
            Galili is a derivative of Galileo, the area where the city of Nazareth is located, known to all Christians hi
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 16 November 2020 16: 46
              +6
              Greetings Albert! hi This Bar is interested, and I don't know much. smile
              “Unable to refrain from a painful grimace, the procurator looked sideways at what was written, returned the parchment to the secretary and with difficulty said:
              - The Galilee suspect? Have you sent the case to the tetrarch?
              - Yes, procurator, - answered the secretary. "(C)
              It was read and not only there.
              Here Nikolai is interested in your opinion, because you are personally familiar with the subjects under discussion. But I remember we already talked about this once. drinks
              It is interesting to know the opinion of Albert-Krasnodar about the "galil" - probably held in his hands. drinks
              1. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 16 November 2020 18: 43
                +4
                Quote: Sea Cat
                Greetings Albert! hi This Bar is interested, and I don't know much. smile
                “Unable to refrain from a painful grimace, the procurator looked sideways at what was written, returned the parchment to the secretary and with difficulty said:
                - The Galilee suspect? Have you sent the case to the tetrarch?
                - Yes, procurator, - answered the secretary. "(C)
                It was read and not only there.
                Here Nikolai is interested in your opinion, because you are personally familiar with the subjects under discussion. But I remember we already talked about this once. drinks ]

                Quite right - I have not seen advanced versions))
                1. Lexus
                  Lexus 17 November 2020 02: 32
                  +4
                  Albert hi,
                  you need to "ride the roof" on the basis of eugenics in order to recognize the average Jewish woman among Europeans. I had "very close" girlfriends. Normal, normal women. Without any special bells and whistles.

                  Rachel Weisz - on closer inspection - quite a "purebred" Jewess
                  1. Krasnodar
                    Krasnodar 17 November 2020 02: 56
                    +7
                    Greetings, Alex! hi
                    Jews are not an ethnos, they are a group of different peoples professing Judaism)) Therefore, there is nothing surprising laughing
                  2. Lexus
                    Lexus 17 November 2020 03: 06
                    +6
                    Duc and Russians are Vyatichi, Krivichi, Dregovichi, Northerners and others. There would be a man HUMAN. The rest is secondary. Only obscurantists do not understand.
                2. vladcub
                  vladcub 17 November 2020 15: 49
                  +4
                  I had one "very close girlfriends", I was "friends" for about 3 years and had no idea that she was Jewish: a redhead with brown eyes and a small nose. Until I "dumped" on the "historical homeland" it seems in Eilit or Eylet, I do not know how to live. A year ago, I saw her aunt, allegedly her husband suspected "horns" in himself
    4. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 16 November 2020 15: 25
      +5
      And also Israel Galili (nee Israel Balashnikov) shoveled the Finnish copy of our AK into the Galil assault rifle.

      An interesting play on words turns out, Uncle Kostya ... Balashnikov "shoveled" a Kalashnikov assault rifle ... what apparently they were made for each other.
      By the way, EMNIP, the Israelis "changed their faith" not to the original AK, but to its Finnish version - the Valmet assault rifle. It is interesting to know the opinion of Albert-Krasnodar about the "galil" - probably held in his hands. drinks
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 16 November 2020 15: 45
        +4
        By the way, EMNIP, the Israelis "changed faith" not to the original AK, but to its Finnish version -

        Kohl, that's what I wrote about it.
        And also Israel Galili (nee Israel Balashnikov) shoveled the Finnish copy of our AK into the Galil assault rifle.
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 16 November 2020 15: 49
          +6
          Kohl, that's what I wrote about it.

          forgive me generously .. I grabbed my eyes at the "AK", and passed the "Finnish copy" by my consciousness ... request
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 16 November 2020 15: 53
            +6
            Not only the Israelis "borrowed" from the Finns, but the Swedes, through the Israelis, hurried up, however.

            Rifle FFV-890С, model 1 (Museum of the Swedish Army, Stockholm)
            1. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 16 November 2020 16: 04
              +6
              Rifle FFV-890С, model 1 (Museum of the Swedish Army, Stockholm)

              Did not know! hi And how widespread did it get among the Swedes?
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 16 November 2020 16: 13
                +6
                There was a competition and in the end, almost for "political" reasons, the Israeli SAR preferred the Belgian FNC rifle. request

                She is still in service with the Swedish army under the name AK5.
                1. Lexus
                  Lexus 17 November 2020 02: 49
                  +4
                  The Israelis turned out to be more practical than the "vulnerable" Swedes. Ak5 wasn't bad though.
      2. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 16 November 2020 16: 39
        +4
        Greetings, Nikolay! hi I kept two old versions - Konstantin saw things more advanced. Heavy, requires constant maintenance, otherwise rusts quickly, less accurate than M-16. But, they say, more reliable.
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 16 November 2020 16: 53
          +5
          Heavy, requires constant maintenance, otherwise rusts quickly, less accurate than M-16. But, they say, more reliable.

          Hello Albert! For some reason I thought so ... That something was sacrificed for reliability. But at one time Israel had enough of them? Was that the IDF's main assault rifle? drinks
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 16 November 2020 18: 21
            +4
            At one time, yes - then they finally switched to M-16 and M-4. Now they are gradually switching to Tavor
            1. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 17 November 2020 09: 09
              +5
              Now they are gradually switching to Tavor

              is bullpup convenient at all?
              1. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 17 November 2020 11: 42
                +2
                They say that very
                I haven't shot even once
                1. Pane Kohanku
                  Pane Kohanku 17 November 2020 12: 06
                  +4
                  I haven't shot even once

                  I'm not ku either. request
    5. vladcub
      vladcub 16 November 2020 16: 08
      +6
      Kostya, does Galya have a Schmeisser (EF) in his hand?
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 16 November 2020 16: 23
        +6
        Glory, hello. hi He has in his left hand the German p / p MR 38/40 developed by ERMA (Erfurter Maschinenfabrik (ERMA)), and Hugo Schmeisser has nothing to do with the development of this machine.
        Here is a prototype of this p / p:

        ERMA EMP-36. And Schmeisser at that time and until the end of the war worked at Heinel (Genel).
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 16 November 2020 17: 04
          +6
          And Schmeisser at that time and until the end of the war worked at Heinel (Genel).

          Uncle Kostya, I read here that Schmeisser was personally involved in such a craft as MP41. I mean, the insides are from MP40, but a wooden box with a stock + other whistles. It was released in a small series.
          http://www.megasword.ru/index.php?pg=355
          The MP-41 submachine gun is a rare example of a German private arms initiative. Hugo Schmeisser attempted to convert the stock MP-40 by simply fitting the barrel and slide of the MP-40 into a wooden stock. Also, a translator of fire modes was installed on the new PP, which made it possible for the weapon to also conduct single fire. Due to the fact that the MR-40 submachine gun, which was in service with the Wehrmacht infantry, was developed primarily for arming parachutists and crew members of armored vehicles, it was equipped with a folding metal butt, which ensured its compactness. This quality, so necessary for placing weapons in the cramped fighting compartments of armored vehicles, was of secondary importance for the line infantry, striving to have a weapon with a wooden butt more convenient for aimed shooting.
          Like the MP-40, the MP-41 submachine gun belongs to the models of automatic weapons, the action of the automatic mechanisms of which is based on the use of the recoil energy of the free bolt. The striker-type trigger mechanism allows both single and continuous fire. The appropriate translator is located on the left-hand side above the trigger guard. For single fire, the translator is pushed to the extreme right position, and for continuous fire - to the extreme left position. To prevent accidental shots, the bolt in the rearmost position can be delivered to the safety catch. The MR-41 submachine gun is fired with 9-mm Parabellum cartridges. Cartridges are fed from a box magazine with a capacity of 32 rounds, which is also used for the MP-40. The magazine is inserted into the neck of the receiver from below and held by a latch. The sights provide aimed fire at a range of up to 200 m.

          1. Catfish
            Catfish 16 November 2020 17: 36
            +3
            ... here I read that Schmeisser was personally involved in such a craft as MP41. I mean, the insides are from MP40, but a wooden stock with a stock + others ...

            He simply took his MP-28 / II (a modernized version of his own MR-18 ("Bergmann" by the name of the manufacturer) and stuck the barrel, receiver and bolt from the MP-40 into it, as a result this MP-41 with a wooden butt appeared and a fire mode translator.

            MP-28 / II
            Sometimes it is also called Schmeiser-Heinel, after the name of the designer and manufacturer.
            1. Lexus
              Lexus 17 November 2020 03: 17
              +2
              Fragment from the movie "Wow, Talking Fish!" (1983)
    6. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 16 November 2020 16: 34
      +4
      Quote: Sea Cat
      I didn’t think about it either. I can say with some certainty that the Israeli gunsmith Uziel Gal, the author of the notorious Uzi, is certainly a Jew.

      And also Israel Galili (nee Israel Balashnikov) shoveled the Finnish copy of our AK into the Galil assault rifle.

      We're talking about an earlier period))
      Greetings, Constantine! hi
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 16 November 2020 16: 59
        +3
        Who cares, any period is interesting. And creative work, in my opinion, is beyond time and nationality. drinks
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 16 November 2020 18: 05
          +3
          This is definitely))
  • Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 16 November 2020 13: 40
    +7
    Quote: Bar1
    to the author, and where does the first illustration of the article come from?

    As for the Jews who suddenly turned out to be "good gunsmiths", for the first time I hear: from Faithfanger or what?
    The fact that the state is getting richer with Jews is just a ridiculous phrase. Latin America did not accept Jews from Europe, probably because they are "good gunsmiths."

    Some were taken by North America - a nuclear bomb appeared sad
    1. Bar1
      Bar1 16 November 2020 15: 06
      +2
      Quote: Krasnodar
      Some were taken by North America - a nuclear bomb appeared

      Oppenheimer was an American Jew, and the American atomic bomb is the dirtiest bomb in the world.
      1. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 16 November 2020 15: 25
        +7
        Quote: Bar1
        Quote: Krasnodar
        Some were taken by North America - a nuclear bomb appeared

        Oppenheimer was an American Jew, and the American atomic bomb is the dirtiest bomb in the world.

        1) Oppenheimer (leader) - American. Peierls Rudolph - German, Otto Frisch - Austrian, Edward Teller - Hungarian. Proceed? wink
        2) But the first. Information helping to build the first, cleanest and most peaceful, nuclear bomb in the world, Soviet Sobz received including. thanks to the Rosenberg spouses and scouts - the Kogan spouses.
        3) Are those gunsmiths not? laughing
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 16 November 2020 15: 41
          +7
          And Mordechai Vanunu, judging by his surname, is generally Polynesian! laughing
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 16 November 2020 16: 18
            +6
            Quote: 3x3zsave
            And Mordechai Vanunu, judging by his surname, is generally Polynesian! laughing

            Greetings Anton! hi not - not a fig, he's not a Polynesian - this is our Moroccan-Jewish miracle laughing
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 16 November 2020 16: 41
              +7
              Albert! hi
              I know a kind of Jewish Snowden laughing
              1. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 16 November 2020 16: 43
                +5
                Quote: 3x3zsave
                Albert! hi
                I know a kind of Jewish Snowden laughing

                Only illiterate))
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 16 November 2020 16: 45
                  +6
                  Why is he illiterate?
                  1. Krasnodar
                    Krasnodar 16 November 2020 18: 05
                    +6
                    Because he graduated from something like a vocational school, then flunked the first semester of the philosophy faculty of the local University, and he tried to study in absentia - and how you can flunk the correspondence program is unclear. More precisely, for this you need to have a rare talent))
                  2. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 16 November 2020 18: 09
                    +6
                    Bliiin! But how did he get into the nuclear program?
                  3. Krasnodar
                    Krasnodar 16 November 2020 18: 20
                    +6
                    He worked as a technician there - he took pictures and knew the floor plan))
                  4. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 16 November 2020 20: 35
                    +5
                    What are you, Jews, slovens! Chesslovo, worse than Russian !!!!
                  5. Krasnodar
                    Krasnodar 16 November 2020 21: 10
                    +4
                    Quote: 3x3zsave
                    What are you, Jews, slovens! Chesslovo, worse than Russian !!!!

                    Moreover, the British, after he posted them a photo and information, did not believe that he was telling the truth because of "the low level of the general educational level of a person, probably not enough to work at such an object."
                  6. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 16 November 2020 21: 21
                    +3
                    Write a script and propose to Guy Ritchie!
                  7. Krasnodar
                    Krasnodar 16 November 2020 21: 30
                    +3
                    Unfortunately, there is little interesting there - de not rat got access to the secrets and, falling under the reduction of staff, decided to sell them to the yellow newspaper))
                    They stole him from the Europeans through a woman laughing
                  8. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 16 November 2020 21: 41
                    +4
                    But the "theater of the absurd" is utter!
                  9. Krasnodar
                    Krasnodar 16 November 2020 22: 45
                    +3
                    Quote: 3x3zsave
                    But the "theater of the absurd" is utter!

                    Exactly laughing The person changed religion twice - from Judea to Buddhist, from Buddhist to Christian. Lives, after his release, in East (Arab) Jerusalem, with a ban on access to the Internet and a mobile phone)).
                  10. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 16 November 2020 22: 59
                    +6
                    It became interesting. And in the case of a transition from Judaism, do they do "plastic surgery"? wassat
                  11. Krasnodar
                    Krasnodar 17 November 2020 00: 24
                    +3
                    To participate in the Greek Olympics, and it was before our era, they did. Now - no, tk. a lot of Christians in the West circumcise their babies to prevent phimosis, etc.
                  12. Lexus
                    Lexus 17 November 2020 03: 44
                    +3
                    The Hellenes were not embarrassed by the contemplation of the "cucumber", but only by the removed "skin" ?! bully
                  13. Krasnodar
                    Krasnodar 17 November 2020 11: 35
                    +2
                    Exactly
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 16 November 2020 16: 57
    +3
    not - not a fig, he's not a Polynesian - this is our Moroccan-Jewish miracle

    And I would also refer the director and actor Taiku Waititi to the Maori-Jewish miracle. "Real Ghouls" is a tabletop film. Highly recommend if you want to laugh. By the way, playing off-screen "Leningrad" with Cord is a real soundtrack to the real English version of the film. good
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 16 November 2020 18: 14
      +5
      I looked, in my opinion - cool))
      1. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 17 November 2020 14: 55
        +4
        I looked, in my opinion - cool))

        It seems to be in a vampire theme too:
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 17 November 2020 14: 58
          +2
          I already sent everyone a picture))
    2. depressant
      depressant 16 November 2020 19: 32
      +4
      Pane Kohanku, thanks for the video - this movie reminded me! ))) At one time I looked, I laughed a lot)))
      1. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 17 November 2020 09: 17
        +4
        Pane Kohanku, thanks for the video - this movie reminded me! ))) At one time I looked, I laughed a lot)))

        Lyudmila Yakovlevna, I also have this film for all time. laughing The authors have already shot a series based on it - to match. good Recommend. Anwapa has two seasons. drinks
    3. Lexus
      Lexus 17 November 2020 03: 53
      +4
      Kolya, Cord to match the film is the same awkward ghoul. good drinks
      1. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 17 November 2020 10: 46
        +3
        Kolya, Cord to match the film is the same awkward ghoul.

        Lesh, at first I thought that "Swallow" from "Leningrad" in the film is the subtlety of Russian dubbing. Then I revised the credits at the end, where there is a list of music. So it is - she! yes How the New Zealanders found out about Cord and put his music into the film ... it must be great originals! laughing
        1. Lexus
          Lexus 17 November 2020 18: 03
          +2
          New Zealanders - with some bells and whistles. I liked this from today.

        2. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 18 November 2020 11: 05
          +4
          I liked this from today.

          Lesh, by the way, I didn't understand everything. The second and fourth from the left are not. And the second from the right is also not. sad But about the cyborg-sweet tooth - it looks like a pebble in my garden ... laughing
        3. Lexus
          Lexus 18 November 2020 14: 19
          +2
          Thumbelina, Donkey skin, as far as I understand, Kolobok. Chic Carlson in this role is familiar to me - one of the first photos I posted on VO. good drinks
        4. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 18 November 2020 15: 17
          +3
          and Kolobok

          I didn't even think about him ... belay
          Chic Carlson in this role is familiar to me - one of the first photos I posted on VO.

          We are generally unpredictable ... wassat
        5. Lexus
          Lexus 18 November 2020 15: 19
          +4
          If only they ate. And then, after all, go and eat. wassat drinks
        6. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 18 November 2020 16: 07
          +3
          If only they ate. And then, after all, go and eat.

          Duc, you also need to know how to cook healthy food! wink
        7. Korsar4
          Korsar4 18 November 2020 17: 07
          +3
          Yes. They wanted to invent Jin as a medicine. Use only steel in a different way.
        8. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 18 November 2020 17: 44
          +3
          Yes. They wanted to invent Jin as a medicine. Use only steel in a different way.

          Sergei! Such a series of articles is already in your pocket ... good But the Author does not want to write, sir .... But he will break the bank! drinks
        9. Korsar4
          Korsar4 18 November 2020 17: 48
          +3
          To be honest, at the moment I'm more interested in what kind of breeds the Turkish Sultan cut down on the Black Sea coast, not far from Varna. But even then, for yesterday.

          If we are alive, after December 17th I am ready to consider applications in a chatter mode.

          But Anton has priority with slash farming and Nightingale the Robber.
        10. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 18 November 2020 17: 54
          +3
          But Anton has priority with slash farming and Nightingale the Robber.

          This one can tell for architecture and construction. How to mix correctly according to the classic "greedy bear method". laughing

          Sergei, my muse has not visited me for a long time .. since summer yet .. A lot of unfinished business. recourse If you and Anton write, you will please a bunch of kind people.
        11. Korsar4
          Korsar4 18 November 2020 17: 57
          +2
          I do not stop. Only on my own topic, and with abstruse words.
          But our forum will soon teach me to pictures.
        12. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 18 November 2020 18: 02
          +3
          But our forum will soon teach me to pictures.

          There now, on the "opinions" of Shpakovsky, they once again accustom him to emotional attacks on him. laughing Therefore, it is better to have pictures and humor in your own company (and a quiet sandbox!) Than tubs of slop from all the cracks. drinks
        13. Korsar4
          Korsar4 18 November 2020 18: 47
          +1
          Getting upset by communication is like a kind of masochism.
        14. Lexus
          Lexus 18 November 2020 18: 50
          +2
          That's really true. I wrote three comments there, and now I don't want to look at what they answered.
        15. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 19 November 2020 09: 15
          +1
          That's really true. I wrote three comments there, and now I don't want to look at what they answered.

          Lesh, as Diogenes said, "There are many people - I don't see people." I looked ... Darkness. The majority immediately begins to throw out the contents of their rectum on the forum, without even tying it to the topic of the article. This is not a discussion. These are screams. That is why I do not go into those sections, and I do not try to communicate with any of the inhabitants there. Not interested. Jokes with Uncle Kostya, exchanging pictures with you or Corsair's poetry are much more pleasant. drinks
        16. Lexus
          Lexus 19 November 2020 14: 18
          +2
          By the way, the article was deleted. And my personal opens, but does not work. Uncle Kostya wanted
          I threw off the picture yesterday, but it is neither there, nor here, nor back. Cherkani wh-thread, pliz.
        17. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 19 November 2020 15: 11
          +1
          Cherkani wh-thread, pliz.

          I sent it half an hour ago - it's gone.
        18. Lexus
          Lexus 19 November 2020 15: 14
          +1
          I got it from you, but no, no back. Uncle Kostya doesn't work either. Dmitry (Reptilian). On the way, the site is updated. Sectors are cut down.
        19. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 19 November 2020 15: 16
          +1
          On the way, the site is updated. Sectors are cut down.

          This karmic punishment has come to you! For seductive speeches, let him be brave! laughing drinks
        20. Lexus
          Lexus 19 November 2020 15: 19
          +2
          I don’t have such a "kebab". Find Kostya, and I'll leave and join later. drinks
  • Lexus
    Lexus 18 November 2020 18: 48
    +3
    Sugar and yeast, not sand and concrete, must be poured into the machine! wassat
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 18 November 2020 17: 10
    +3
    The snack reduces the degree.
  • Lexus
    Lexus 17 November 2020 03: 25
    +3
    The video will have to be hidden. There are Russian words, very to the point, there. laughing

    1. depressant
      depressant 17 November 2020 10: 38
      +5
      The video is shine! Continuous laughter !!!))))
      By the way, the aforementioned pita is such a small Armenian flatbread. In our village, the Armenians rented a place in one of our two "Fives" and sell several types of baked dough: pits, 6 pieces per pack, white and black bars, with garlic inserts, thin pita breads and small khachapuri. They bake at home - in the next door to me, in the "Five" they installed a large industrial production oven, in which in the morning they warm up and sell yesterday's unsold. During this time, they bake and then bring fresh food for sale. And in other kiosks and shops - Armenian products. They work with families.
      Armenians are extremely hard-working people. And they will crawl through everywhere. Money is the main thing for them. There is no desire to grab stars from the sky. According to these properties, they are infinitely tenacious and revived in any territory. The attitude towards the type of state is indifferent-consumer. They were like that in Soviet times, and they are like that now.
  • Bar1
    Bar1 16 November 2020 15: 46
    +2
    how Jews love Jewish themes. Kurchatov is not a Jew, but a Russian.
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 16 November 2020 16: 28
      +6
      Quote: Bar1
      how Jews love Jewish themes. Kurchatov is not a Jew, but a Russian.

      That is why he created a bomb, pure as a baby's tear and radiant, like a light wave over Nagasaki. ))
      1. depressant
        depressant 17 November 2020 10: 41
        +4
        There are also "dirty" bombs - this is their official definition))) No destruction, the population is dead. Kurchatov did not create such a thing.
      2. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 17 November 2020 13: 35
        +8
        That is why he created a bomb, pure as a baby's tear and radiant, like a light wave over Nagasaki. ))

        History of Japan in one picture:
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 17 November 2020 13: 37
          +3
          From Bushido to Bukake? ))
          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 17 November 2020 14: 54
            +4
            From Bushido to Bukake? ))

            Hmm ... but you definitely noticed ... lol Somehow, but how to drink sake - that's such a bukake! request
          2. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 17 November 2020 15: 16
            +4
            Namatsu spread out brushes and ink -
            Drawing curvy geisha will be in sakura flowers.
            How happy the eye is!
            winked
            (Unknown samurai, 18th century. Note: "Namatsu" - Sea Cat in the translation of Google into Japanese.
            ナ マ ズ Namazu) drinks
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 17 November 2020 15: 54
              +3
              Short skirt
              Over Tokyo smog stands
              Sakura color panties
              Hiroshima view fellow
            2. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 17 November 2020 16: 00
              +4
              Hiroshima view

              Joker! laughing You could say - "to Fujiyama"! drinks Although there is a forest at the foot ... intricate ... what
            3. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 17 November 2020 16: 29
              +3
              Okay - to Nagasaki drinks
            4. depressant
              depressant 17 November 2020 18: 21
              +3
              Aokigahara. Suicide Forest.
            5. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 18 November 2020 09: 34
              +3
              Aokigahara. Suicide Forest.

              namely ... the infamous .. Well, the Japanese culture has no taboo on this matter! request
  • Catfish
    Catfish 16 November 2020 17: 00
    +7
    Fermi seems to have taken part in this project too.
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 16 November 2020 18: 16
      +6
      Quote: Sea Cat
      Fermi seems to have taken part in this project too.

      And Fermi and Niels Bohr - many who
  • Bolt cutter
    Bolt cutter 16 November 2020 15: 45
    +4
    Turkey in English, because guinea fowls were imported to England from Turkey and were originally called turkey. Wild turkeys in America began to be called Indian guinea fowl-Indian turkey, and then just turkey remained and took root.
    English translation of the word Turks, why is it turkey
    1. Bar1
      Bar1 16 November 2020 15: 51
      -3
      Quote: Bolt Cutter
      Turkey in English, because guinea fowls were imported to England from Turkey and were originally called turkey. Wild turkeys in America began to be called Indian guinea fowl-Indian turkey, and then just turkey remained and took root.
      English translation of the word Turks, why is it turkey

      the explanation, as usual, is stupid and not logical and cannot be verified, a typical English etymology.
      1. Bolt cutter
        Bolt cutter 16 November 2020 16: 00
        +4
        as usual stupid and not logical
        Where is the professor-linguist of Columbia University Mario Pei (who learned 30 languages yes ) to an anonymous VO commentator laughing
  • bk0010
    bk0010 16 November 2020 16: 28
    +5
    Quote: Bar1
    it was they who weakened the Ataman-Ottoman Empire.
    What, the Jews and Turkey sold?
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 16 November 2020 16: 41
      +8
      They all sold - but where the hell is my share? ))
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 16 November 2020 16: 49
        +7
        Forget! Your compatriots sold it to the Greeks. And where the Greek passed - the Jew has nothing to do. Yes, you yourself know everything! laughing
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 16 November 2020 18: 19
          +5
          An Armenian was born, a Jew cried laughing
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 16 November 2020 18: 57
            +6
            Oh yeah!!! However, Armenians are different ...
            1. Korsar4
              Korsar4 16 November 2020 19: 53
              +4
              All people are different. I am not sure that it is firmly possible to identify the characteristic features of nations. However, some have spoken out, including Goethe and Leo Tolstoy.
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 16 November 2020 20: 02
                +4
                There can be only one characteristic feature of a nation - survival.
                1. Korsar4
                  Korsar4 16 November 2020 20: 06
                  +3
                  That is, the Etruscans could not prove their right to exist?
                  Or is the comparative lifespan of the nation important here?
                  Who can be compared to Egyptians of the Ancient Kingdoms?
                  1. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 16 November 2020 20: 31
                    +4
                    The Etruscans could not.
                    The core, the idea, the culture, the way of life are important ... And the attractiveness of the totality of this crap for other peoples. Then the nation will live.
                  2. Korsar4
                    Korsar4 16 November 2020 20: 39
                    +3
                    So who is the leader so far? Great China? And it's not that uniform. Here the question is still on what time scale to watch?
                  3. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 16 November 2020 20: 43
                    +4
                    Yes, China and Israel.
                  4. Korsar4
                    Korsar4 16 November 2020 20: 47
                    +4
                    That is, you won't be looking for Phoenicians and Assyrians now?
                  5. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 16 November 2020 20: 49
                    +3
                    Do I look like an idiot?
                  6. Korsar4
                    Korsar4 16 November 2020 20: 53
                    +4
                    In no case. There are a lot of Assyrians now. And the Phoenicians, it seems, remained or gave birth to the Lebanese and Maltese.

                    It is not so easy with accurate dating and reference points.

                    I can ask harmful questions.
                  7. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 16 November 2020 21: 04
                    +4
                    Sergei! What, in aphedron, Assyrians ??? Direct descendants of those who built Nineveh ??? It's not even funny ...
                  8. Krasnodar
                    Krasnodar 16 November 2020 21: 12
                    +5
                    Yes)) Descendants of those
                  9. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 16 November 2020 21: 33
                    +5
                    You just dropped me off for treason. Right now, there is a certain society, whose members are direct genetic descendants of the Assyrians, profess a religion and preserve their culture?
                  10. Korsar4
                    Korsar4 16 November 2020 21: 40
                    +4
                    Moreover. They really wanted Assyrian autonomy. Not supported.

                    And about the preservation of religion and culture, and even state borders - this is Khomyakov's "Semeramide". Everything is changeable.
                  11. Hantengri
                    Hantengri 16 November 2020 21: 55
                    +4
                    Quote: 3x3zsave
                    Right now, there is a certain society, whose members are direct genetic descendants of the Assyrians, profess their religion and preserve their culture?

                    Anton, I don't know about religion, culture and the "straightness" of descendants, but such a society exists. Our head of the department of astrophysics (and my scientific advisor) was Assyrian.
                  12. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 16 November 2020 22: 17
                    +3
                    Igor. Three millennia and dozens of peoples have trampled across Mesopotamia ...
                  13. Hantengri
                    Hantengri 16 November 2020 23: 31
                    +4
                    However, despite all this "trampling", the ethnic group that identifies itself as "Assyrians" still exists. And how modern are identical to the ancients ... Only one (in whom did they believe there?) Is known.
              2. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 16 November 2020 22: 40
                +4
                Profess religion - no
                They know her and keep some customs - yes
              3. Astra wild2
                Astra wild2 17 November 2020 17: 11
                +3
                An old man lived across the house from us: - an Assyrian, he was probably 100 years old, and he played the piano. He died at 18.
              4. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 17 November 2020 17: 38
                +2
                "On a cracked bench, elder Pliny" (C)
        2. Korsar4
          Korsar4 16 November 2020 21: 15
          +4
          Juna, in my opinion, considered herself one of them.

          If you remember "12 chairs", then there was mentioned an Assyrian - a shoe shiner. What's wrong?
        3. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 16 November 2020 22: 11
          +6
          Inhabited, demons! Both, two.
          Well, I'll answer you.
          In this case, I, as a descendant of the ancient Vyatichi (and so it is), have the right to summon to the "divine judgment" (Ordalia), a certain person, known under the nickname "Navalny", for the ruin of a sacred place for my people (case "Kirovles")
          I'll fill up the bastard, for the glory of the gods and ancestors !!!
        4. Korsar4
          Korsar4 16 November 2020 22: 14
          +5
          I had no doubt that you would remember the Vyatichi. And for all the insults inflicted on the ancestor Nightingale the robber, you will demand a virus.

          There are no definite answers in this changing world.
        5. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 16 November 2020 22: 24
          +5
          No no no! "Soloviy" he is not human at all!
        6. Korsar4
          Korsar4 16 November 2020 22: 31
          +4
          Probably disagree. But I will not prove the next month.
        7. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 16 November 2020 22: 35
          +5
          No problem. Remind if possible. But by my last name, I really am Vyatka.
        8. Korsar4
          Korsar4 16 November 2020 22: 43
          +3
          Just from slash-and-burn farming - a direct thread to the Nightingale the Robber.

          But to play the fool in a big way I don't know when there will be time. So far: no reason, no reason.
        9. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 16 November 2020 22: 52
          +4
          Hmmm ... Well, at least in the smallest detail, in the mail, or what?
        10. Korsar4
          Korsar4 16 November 2020 22: 55
          +3
          Just remind me, please, so that tomorrow from work you will throw the extended version of the presentation.

          But do not tempt, please, otherwise I'll start playing the fool ahead of time, to the detriment of everything else.
        11. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 16 November 2020 23: 03
          +6
          Specify a reminder time?
        12. Korsar4
          Korsar4 16 November 2020 23: 21
          +5
          Roughly speaking, from 9 o'clock to the conventional 17-20. But in fact, I'll try not to forget myself.
  • Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 16 November 2020 21: 11
    +4
    Quote: Korsar4
    That is, you won't be looking for Phoenicians and Assyrians now?

    There are Assyrians, modern Lebanese consider themselves the descendants of the Phoenicians))
  • Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 16 November 2020 20: 40
    +3
    Quote: Korsar4
    All people are different. I am not sure that it is firmly possible to identify the characteristic features of nations. However, some have spoken out, including Goethe and Leo Tolstoy.

    Yes, this is understandable - but if we, Jews, are a nation of batans, merchants and artisans, then Armenians are a people of generals and marshals, a warrior people soldier
    1. Korsar4
      Korsar4 16 November 2020 20: 42
      +4
      Is there a cliché for everyone? Any profession can have the most diverse national spectrum.
      1. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 16 November 2020 21: 13
        +3
        That was sarcasm laughing All people are different, nations - accordingly
    2. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 16 November 2020 20: 54
      +3
      Somehow Jews, for the last 70 years, have been fighting more successfully than Armenians. And the Armenians trade more successfully ... but in little things
      1. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 16 November 2020 21: 15
        +4
        There are serious Armenian commerce, they are fighting about - well, life will force you, you will not get it up like that laughing
    3. Phil77
      Phil77 17 November 2020 18: 33
      +2
      Quote: Krasnodar
      we Jews are a nation of batans, merchants and artisans

      Hello Albert! I will disappoint! Not only!
      Yuri Lyapkin, Evgeny Zimin, Yuri Moiseev, Alfred Kuchevsky, Vitaly Davydov, Vladimir Myshkin, Viktor Zinger. What do they all have in common? Yes, the fact that all these guys played great hockey and were the pride of the USSR national team. And not only them! hi
      1. Phil77
        Phil77 17 November 2020 18: 37
        +3
        Quote: Phil77
        And not only them!

        The star of today!
      2. Korsar4
        Korsar4 18 November 2020 19: 08
        +1
        It is still important in what country you were born and live. It doesn't work like that with football.
      3. Phil77
        Phil77 18 November 2020 19: 25
        +1
        Quote: Korsar4
        ... It doesn't work like that with football.

        Good evening Sergey!
        If it's rude, then the football players are snickering * cats *! I would not want to say harsh words to the noble fluffy people, but ... Otherwise, you can’t tell? With hockey players there is another song, the sport is very contact and in it * on foot * on * box * And by the way, I noticed one peculiarity: football players confidently hold the upper hand in scandals, but there has been tension with sports achievements lately. wink
      4. Korsar4
        Korsar4 18 November 2020 19: 33
        +1
        I agree. It's nice to look at skiers.
        With all the nuances of cyclic sports.

        Good evening, Seryozha!
      5. Phil77
        Phil77 18 November 2020 19: 36
        +2
        Quote: Korsar4
        sports.

        Yes, there is one, but !!!! Look, turning off the sound !!!! Without the wild cries of Guberniev and Cherdantsev! laughing
      6. Korsar4
        Korsar4 18 November 2020 20: 38
        +1
        Then he is able to watch the cut. The faces are good. Used to work on the track.
  • Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 17 November 2020 18: 53
    +1
    Greetings - also hockey players laughing
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 16 November 2020 20: 37
    +2
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    Oh yeah!!! However, Armenians are different ...

    But all cars are the same))
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 16 November 2020 20: 41
      +2
      Hmmm. I had a friend, an Armenian. I went to the Gazelle.
      1. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 16 November 2020 21: 17
        +2
        I have one good Armenian acquaintance and two friends. Completely different people. One thing in common is love for black Mercedes)))
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 16 November 2020 21: 37
          +3
          Not at all. Robert has a morbid passion for "Japanese women"
        2. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 16 November 2020 22: 42
          +2
          He is a Russified Armenian))
        3. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 16 November 2020 22: 50
          +3
          Uh-huh. He conquered Karabakh for two years, married the daughter of the chief architect of Yerevan, lived in Russia for fifteen years, and left for the States. What a Russianized fuck!
        4. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 16 November 2020 22: 52
          +2
          15 years is a lot))
        5. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 16 November 2020 23: 02
          +3
          If you can communicate with the diaspora, nothing!
        6. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 17 November 2020 00: 24
          +2
          Quote: 3x3zsave
          If you can communicate with the diaspora, nothing!

          I agree)).
  • Lexus
    Lexus 17 November 2020 03: 57
    +2
    "Chubaty was born - a Jew cried, an Armenian hanged himself." (C) New transcription. smile
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 17 November 2020 17: 04
    0
    They are looking for buyers.
  • andrew42
    andrew42 24 November 2020 13: 24
    0
    Here a clarification is required: with these friends, the SHADOW state grows rich, sometimes generously pouring from its geshefts to a stupid turkey ruler, who on occasion will then be responsible for EVERYTHING. The principle is the same at all times - to squeeze the national elite from real government. And whoever opposes this will be left with "Haman's ears" (Yegor Ligachev got off easily). The destruction of the USSR was also not without "sleepy commissars" - Raechka, Nainochka, etc. Unstructured control, you know, looping "leaders" 24 hours a day. However, Mishka Yeguopa didn't need to ring too much - just make sure that he didn't flog the crap at all.
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 16 November 2020 09: 44
    +4
    Colleague Vlad, I haven’t found inkpots, but I know fountain pens. My second mom loved the fountain pen. And her daughter still sometimes writes her
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 16 November 2020 13: 44
      +9
      Oh, Vera, then you are not familiar with such a masterpiece of technical thought as a "non-pouring inkwell". laughing
      1. vladcub
        vladcub 16 November 2020 16: 23
        +6
        I know her. In the third quarter (in the 1st grade) my mother gave it to me, and in a week I was "squeezed". And I don't know her properly. But feathers: duck, pioneer, rondo I know well. Mom bought me: "duck", and I was crazy about rondo (did I write to them? I don't remember) the teacher wrote.
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 16 November 2020 16: 37
          +6
          Well, I don't remember the names of the feathers, although I have used the smallest ones almost all my life, working with ink on Whatman paper. smile
      2. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 16 November 2020 19: 12
        +6
        "non-pouring inkwell"

        We called it "non-spill". There were school, carbolite ones, but from the second grade we wore our own, mostly earthenware. And I remember the feathers "asterisk" and also the feathers were made of sewn rags.
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 16 November 2020 20: 07
          +6
          Well, we are all old bastards here. laughing And I remember the pens, they also had these multi-colored rags.
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 16 November 2020 22: 08
            +4
            I agree that a bastard. But still young.
            And at the post office, feathers and inkwells remained for a long time.

            And out of its harmfulness, I made a drawing in course ink. Despite the fact that the gel pens have already appeared.

            And engineering graphics in the first year poisoned life like nothing else.
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 16 November 2020 22: 13
              +3
              Social science and the history of the CPSU poisoned my life.
              1. Korsar4
                Korsar4 16 November 2020 22: 15
                +3
                “- Giving up, Dutch Cheese?
                - I give up, Boyar Hrych! " (from).
                1. Lexus
                  Lexus 17 November 2020 04: 06
                  +1
                  Sergei hi,
                  and horseradish all the same "in Soviet style". drinks
                  1. Korsar4
                    Korsar4 17 November 2020 10: 53
                    +3
                    It's good when both horseradish and mustard are vigorous.
            2. Aviator_
              Aviator_ 16 November 2020 22: 43
              +4
              And at the post office, feathers and inkwells remained for a long time.

              And so is the dextrin glue.
              1. Korsar4
                Korsar4 16 November 2020 22: 45
                +4
                Yes. And sealing wax too. I wonder if he is there now?
                1. Aviator_
                  Aviator_ 16 November 2020 22: 47
                  +4
                  No. And another sign of the times - there was a picture on the telegraph of Lenin listening to what came to him by telegraph (someone reads the tape to him), and at the long-distance telephone booth there was a picture of Lenin talking on the phone.
                  1. Korsar4
                    Korsar4 16 November 2020 22: 52
                    +4
                    And in our Hall of the Scientific Council it was reported that "Forest specialists cannot be replaced by others without damage to the forest."

                    Can not argue with that.

                    In the school office, the mathematicians were informed that "Mathematics should be taught only then, that it puts the mind in order."

                    In my opinion, we are starting to restore the marks of the country for a certain period of time.
                    1. Aviator_
                      Aviator_ 16 November 2020 22: 55
                      +4
                      Well yes. And there is no one else. "Chemistry stretches out wide its hands in human affairs." M.V. Lomonosov, this is in the chemistry room.
                    2. Korsar4
                      Korsar4 16 November 2020 22: 57
                      +5
                      I always liked aphorisms. And if you repeat a phrase many times, you begin to remember it as a given.
                    3. Catfish
                      Catfish 16 November 2020 23: 16
                      +6
                      In Andropov's office hung a portrait of Pushkin.
                      - Yuri Vladimirovich, do you like Alexander Sergeevich's poems?
                      -- Sure! After all, as aptly said: SOULS are beautiful impulses! hi
                    4. Korsar4
                      Korsar4 16 November 2020 23: 23
                      +4
                      From world literature, you can pick up anything, even the commandments that deny.
                    5. Catfish
                      Catfish 16 November 2020 23: 43
                      +3
                      The main thing is that the leadership was well-read and loved poetry. laughing
                    6. Korsar4
                      Korsar4 16 November 2020 23: 52
                      +4
                      The version of the slogans in the wall newspaper, just a little more durable.
                    7. Catfish
                      Catfish 16 November 2020 23: 59
                      +4
                      "And the next morning they gave a prize to the brigade,
                      Having said that at the masquerade ball,
                      I didn’t seem to play them an alcoholic,
                      But the hippos had me in the fence. "(C)

                      But Vic Nick says that hippos kill about 3000 people a year in the world every year.
                      Interesting, huh?
                    8. Korsar4
                      Korsar4 17 November 2020 00: 08
                      +4
                      And from falling coconuts - more than from poisonous snake bites and shark attacks.
                    9. Catfish
                      Catfish 17 November 2020 00: 15
                      +4
                      But "Don't stand under the arrow!" laughing
                    10. Korsar4
                      Korsar4 17 November 2020 01: 48
                      +4
                      "Don't stand and jump
                      Don't sing and dance ”(c).

                      Precisely, our hazel does not allow this.
                    11. Catfish
                      Catfish 17 November 2020 02: 13
                      +4
                      "I hit the bar again by two twelve,
                      And the coach told me bluntly,
                      That, he says, he will drown me in a pond,
                      To continue to discourage others ... "(c)
                    12. Korsar4
                      Korsar4 17 November 2020 10: 51
                      +4
                      “And today he shouts:
                      "Change skates to sleds" (c).
                    13. Catfish
                      Catfish 17 November 2020 12: 20
                      +2
                      "The candy bars are like sled swans,
                      Hey, you, stray horses, you can hear a scream from the irradiation.
                      High school students are rosy, a little drunk from the frost
                      Gravely knock down loose snow from the heel. "(C)
                    14. Korsar4
                      Korsar4 17 November 2020 12: 51
                      +3
                      “Don't freeze me,
                      My horse "(c).
                    15. Catfish
                      Catfish 17 November 2020 13: 21
                      +2
                      "... and, behold, the horse was pale, and on it a rider, whose name is" death "; and hell followed him ..." (c0
                    16. Korsar4
                      Korsar4 17 November 2020 13: 48
                      +3
                      “And the old man laughed,
                      Out of sight ”(c).
                    17. Catfish
                      Catfish 17 November 2020 13: 53
                      +2
                      "- Away, away, damned tempter, into hell, into hell!
                      ViskOchil through the window and the curtain, Faust also enters ... "
                    18. Korsar4
                      Korsar4 17 November 2020 15: 11
                      +3
                      “And what they call the spirit of the times,
                      There is a spirit of professors and their concepts ”(c).
  • Aviator_
    Aviator_ 17 November 2020 20: 31
    +1
    hippos annually kill about 3000 people in the world.

    And as soon as the number of blacks in Africa grows? However, if not for this factor, they would have overtaken the Indians and the Chinese.
  • Catfish
    Catfish 17 November 2020 21: 39
    +2
    Exactly! Behemoth as a "great equalizer"! And no Colonel Colt. laughing
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 17 November 2020 17: 43
    0
    About 8 years ago there was sealing wax. But now I don't know: I haven't been there for a long time
    1. Aviator_
      Aviator_ 17 November 2020 20: 33
      +1
      In what area was the sealing wax delayed, dear Astra?
    2. Astra wild2
      Astra wild2 18 November 2020 18: 22
      +1
      At 10 m Stavropol Territory rural post office. At least in the spring of 10, I saw a parcel from neighbors.
      Now I have no idea
  • Aviator_
    Aviator_ 16 November 2020 22: 40
    +3
    I went to school from 1962 to 1972, I found a lot - first fountain pens, then automatic ones, with a pipette or a piston for picking up ink, this is from grade 4 (1966), and for some reason they were allowed to write only with an open nib. From the 6th grade (1968) the era of ballpoint pens began, and in the provincial Orenburg, and in the capital, probably earlier.
  • Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 16 November 2020 16: 39
    +9
    Quote: Astra wild2
    Colleague Vlad, I haven’t found inkpots, but I know fountain pens. My second mom loved the fountain pen. And her daughter still sometimes writes her

    I didn’t find it. He studied at school from 1985 to 1995. But he was sitting at a classic desk. Where a cutout for a sippy inkwell and slots for pens was required.
    When I was in the first grade, notebooks with blotting paper were still on sale. By the third grade, they disappeared from the notebooks. The quality of the paper itself has deteriorated. Instead of wooden rulers and iron transports, plastic products began to appear. Then an abundance of different pens, erasers, pencil cases poured in. The portfolios, and then the school uniform, went into oblivion. The transformation of the school was radical, even in the first grade you were spinned that you ate painted eggs for Easter, and in the seventh grade you were told there was no Komsomol. In the third grade, you climbed to the mineral water factory for bottle labels from gas water, and in the fifth grade you played with chewing gum inserts.
    A suit of adydas and felt boots or, on the contrary, korando sneakers and a short fur coat with molding, it's cool, it's just going to grade 8 !!!
    Baseball cap, idiot's dream! A friend pinned her to school at minus ten !!! But this was the second baseball cap in school! Since grade 10, all classmates have gone crazy over leggings. It became relevant to check the chairs for nails. Female cunning is incomprehensible. Ha forgot, I remember half a year it was the top of fashion to walk with plastic bags! About hairstyles. Yours truly wore a tail up to the waist. Now bald like Kotovsky !!!
    I stop everything!
    1. Astra wild2
      Astra wild2 16 November 2020 17: 29
      +6
      I remember blotting paper, but I also found a classic school desk. I don’t remember when it was canceled: I changed 3 schools. Personally, I have remained adherent to the "pioneer" style to the end: light top and dark bottom. Sometimes she wore a white apron. She wore leggings, dyed her hair: ashy, blonde, brunette. Now I have returned to my own dark chestnut ..
      I still remember who Kotovsky was, my father’s grandfather was born on the same street as Kotovsky, but grew up in Ukraine, and then ended up in the Novosibirsk region (exiled). My mother has a pedigree: Greeks, Armenians, Ukrainians and Russians, was born in the Kherson region, and grew up in Novosibirsk. I even watched "Kotovsky" and "Kamo" in my childhood, but I haven't watched them for a long time.
      Kotovsky no longer says anything to his son. For him: Casper or the plafond is clearer.
      We, too, at one time, put gum on the chairs, buttons, I loved gouache with glue.
      1. depressant
        depressant 16 November 2020 19: 53
        +6
        We had a non-pouring inkwell in our house. It looks like this. A low cylinder of glass with the upper base strongly depressed inward until a small circular hole forms. Well, as if someone did this to glass when it was still hot and plastic. The hole was made with such a diameter that the surface tension of the liquid would prevent the ink from spilling out in the event that the ink tank was turned upside down.
        And then there was an antique ivory inkwell, carved. Turning upside down was not planned, and therefore it looked like a keg with the top cover removed. Beautiful. Was on a stand complete with the same goose feather glass. It happened.
        In a glass inkwell, I found a dry cockroach. It was big and black. Why did I climb, I can't even guess. But it is clear that he could not get out. I represent his despair.
      2. Phil77
        Phil77 16 November 2020 20: 34
        +7
        Quote: Astra wild2
        We, too, at one time, put gum on the chairs, buttons, I loved gouache with glue.


        laughing laughing laughing
    2. Phil77
      Phil77 16 November 2020 20: 05
      +7
      Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
      Ha forgot, I remember half a year it was the top of fashion to walk with plastic bags!

      Good evening Vlad!
      Plagiarism !!!! We wore them in the late seventies! wink

      This truth is a little later!
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 16 November 2020 20: 17
        +5
        "Botas boots, Montana pants,
        Sneakers by Adidas "

        (Something from school folklore of the mid-80s).
        1. Phil77
          Phil77 16 November 2020 20: 23
          +5
          Hi Sergey! Well yes, there were some like that here.

          Now of course they cause a smile, but they did wear it! laughing
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 16 November 2020 20: 25
            +4
            I can remember them too. At Luzhniki, there was a queue for them. The father made him stand. I can't stand the queue. In no way.

            Good evening, Seryozha.
            1. Phil77
              Phil77 16 November 2020 20: 30
              +6
              Quote: Korsar4
              In no manifestation

              So you can't get away from them. Recently, there was a crowd in TSUM behind iPhones. And here is another * relic * from the seventies.

              Actually, these products should be in trend today! Eco-friendly and reusable! laughing
              1. Korsar4
                Korsar4 16 November 2020 20: 38
                +3
                No. Now you definitely can't force it.
                Although the waste of the time of the stupid and now more than enough. Only the form is different.
              2. Lexus
                Lexus 17 November 2020 04: 14
                +2
                "Those" condoms were "obnoxious" in absolutely every sense. lol
          2. Lexus
            Lexus 17 November 2020 04: 12
            +5
            Sergei hi,
            in the history of modern Russia, I remember, there were even Adibas and Adidos. laughing
            1. Phil77
              Phil77 17 November 2020 09: 28
              +4
              Quote: lexus
              Adibas and Adidos

              And then! For example. laughing

              1. Catfish
                Catfish 17 November 2020 12: 16
                +3
                But what, I remember the reaction of the people to this brand:
                "To the one who wears Adidas
                Any woman will always give! " laughing
      2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 17 November 2020 05: 02
        +2
        Quote: Phil77
        Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
        Ha forgot, I remember half a year it was the top of fashion to walk with plastic bags!

        Good evening Vlad!
        Plagiarism !!!! We wore them in the late seventies! wink

        This truth is a little later!

        Well, you guys were from the capital, where are the provincials for us !!!
        laughing just kidding, don't be offended! Perhaps all the influences of my school years are an echo of great changes. Moreover, apart from pop culture, everything else was taken not from the TV, but penetrated in some crooked and roundabout ways. My peers have always been in trend and were not inferior to Sverdlovsk residents. Who came on vacation in the same Olympians, baseball cap and beauties. Played with us on the same gum inserts. We discussed the taste of Snickers and Mars bars. There were similar circles and sections, including cool Karate-Do and karting.
        I felt constrained in only one thing. In Sverdlovsk, in the Verkh-Isetsky region, there was a youth yacht club Caravel under the direction of the children's writer V. Krapivin. Reading his books and knowing about his activities, I felt deeply unhappy that I could not sail!
        But to be fair, I must say already at school I became a water tourist (first rafting in grade 3), I have category 2. At school we rafted along Sergei, Chusovaya, Ufa, Sosva, Lozva! At the same time, money from parents was taken only for life jackets and food for hiking. The rest of the budget was formed from the collection of scrap metal and waste paper. But a kayak is one thing, a sail is another !!!
        1. Astra wild2
          Astra wild2 17 November 2020 08: 52
          +2
          Hello Vlad. Perhaps you are right: "in some roundabout way." For example, we had “blue horns” in the trend: a sweater with a blue deer, but such a sweater was rare and we “transformed”: a blue deer head on clothes, notebooks, on my arm, I was above the knee.
          And I loved hiking ... in elementary school, but one day I left with the class, and my mother died. After that, I did not go camping and the boys are indifferent to tourism.
  • Hunter 2
    Hunter 2 16 November 2020 05: 08
    11
    Thanks to Valery Ryzhov for a great start to the day! The article is just great good , under coffee was perfectly read, then I will reread and revise the pictures!
  • Cottager452
    Cottager452 16 November 2020 06: 03
    +8
    Thanks for the review, very informative!
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 16 November 2020 06: 28
    13
    It is interesting how a nation or a group of the same faith can slowly occupy key positions in some industry.

    The example of Armenian bankers is somewhat similar, for example, in Syria of our time, the Alawites occupied key positions in the army.

    Latently changed accumulate. And then the crisis, and blood flows. And so any power can be considered.

    So who is the “sick man of the world” of our time?
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 16 November 2020 07: 14
      12
      Hello, Sergey!
      For the sake of sports interest, I figured out what nationality the finance ministers of the Russian Empire were. For reference, ministries in Russia existed from 1802 to 1917.
      Got an amusing picture. Of the 17 ministers, of Russian origin - 8 (1 is possibly from Maloros with the letter "o" at the end of the surname), German - 7, English - 1, Moldovan - 1.
      The overwhelming majority of "foreigners" submitted to the Russian Empire in the second and subsequent generations (natives of various provinces from Tsarskoye Selo to Tiflis).
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 16 November 2020 07: 37
        10
        Hello Vladislav!

        Did you start with finance ministers? What is the next ministry - Education?
        Probably, this is a matter of policy consistency and, as I would say now, achievement of target indicators.

        And yet different properties are necessary for a stable and troubled time.

        What figures seemed the brightest? Kankrin comes to mind first.

        And yet the Ministry of State Property is inextricably linked with the Ministry of Finance.
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 16 November 2020 13: 49
          11
          I just played around with numbers and concluded in the 19th century, nationality was of secondary importance. Officials served, rose through the ranks, held various posts and positions. Even the key religion in the 14-16 centuries was essentially not important. Almost all Germans are Lutherans or Protestants. Although there are Orthodox Christians, they are mainly in the third or fourth generation.
          By the way, many Jewish crossings served in the army. And the service was not bad enough. A separate topic is foreigners in the irregular army of the Russian Empire: the rights of the Cossack estate were possessed by: Bashkirs, Tatars, Kalmyks, Kazakhs and Tekins, etc.
          And also, for the most part, they honestly dragged hardships and hardships. In terms of the system of religious tolerance, Russia, although not unique, is head and shoulders above many of its neighbors. With some bitterness, I must note that the religious aspect took place in the Russian society itself. Old Belief and opposition to it, the most terrible page in our history.
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 16 November 2020 17: 28
            +6
            I agree. This split reverberated for a long time. And even now I'm not sure that he has completely calmed down.
          2. vladcub
            vladcub 16 November 2020 18: 04
            +4
            The namesake, I agree: "Nikonianism" and the Old Believers are one of the darkest pages in our history.
            Even at 21, the echoes of this confrontation remained. On my street live 3 families of Old Believers, though they are still atheists and only the elders have "schismatic" crosses. They are normal people, but even children sometimes add "Nikoneans", 2 are married to "Nikonians". And the daughter of one of them had to leave for another city to get married. For the second year, the young people live in the city, and although their relatives are proud of their son-in-law, they are an intelligent guy, but they grumble at their daughter: they chose "Nikonian"
      2. Hunter 2
        Hunter 2 16 November 2020 08: 19
        11
        Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka

        Got an amusing picture. Of the 17 ministers, of Russian origin - 8 (1 is possibly from Maloros with the letter "o" at the end of the surname), German - 7, English - 1, Moldovan - 1.
        The overwhelming majority of "foreigners" submitted to the Russian Empire in the second and subsequent generations (natives of various provinces from Tsarskoye Selo to Tiflis).

        Amusing math! what
        Vlad - we are waiting for new results, smoothly move on to the Union period! hi
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 16 November 2020 09: 34
          10
          Good morning, Aleksey! hi
          Somehow I thought about the Union - first the Jews stood out, then the International, then, mainly, the Slavs.
          1. Hunter 2
            Hunter 2 16 November 2020 09: 38
            +9
            Greetings Albert hi Come on, here's an example of how serious Men give statistics! yes
        2. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 16 November 2020 09: 47
          +8
          Council of People's Commissars - the government of Russia headed by V. I. Lenin. Z. Shteinberg, I. I. Skvortsov-Stepanov, B. D. Kamkov, V. D. Bonch-Bruevich, V. E. Trutovsky, A. G. Shlyapnikov, P. P. Proshyan, V. I. Lenin, I. V. Stalin, A. M. Kollontai, P. E. Dybenko, E. K. Koksharova, N. I. Podvoisky, N. P. Gorbunov, V. I. Nevsky, A. V. Shotman, G. V. Chicherin. December 1917-January 1918
          This is the first government))
          Key posts:
          Chairman of the Council of People's Commissars - Vladimir Ulyanov (Lenin)
          People's Commissar for Internal Affairs - A. I. Rykov
          People's Commissar of Agriculture - V.P. Milyutin
          People's Commissar of Labor - A. G. Shlyapnikov
          People’s Commissariat for Military and Naval Affairs - Committee, composed of: V. A. Ovseenko (Antonov) (in the text of the Decree on the formation of the Council of People's Commissars - Avseenko), N. V. Krylenko and P. E. Dybenko
          People's Commissar for Trade and Industry - V.P. Nogin
          People's Commissar of Education - A. V. Lunacharsky
          People's Commissar of Finance - I. I. Skvortsov (Stepanov)
          People's Commissar for Foreign Affairs - L. D. Bronstein (Trotsky)
          People's Commissar of Justice - G. I. Oppokov (Lomov)
          People's Commissar for Food - I. A. Teodorovich
          People's Commissar of Posts and Telegraphs - N.P. Avilov (Glebov)
          People's Commissar for Nationalities - I. V. Dzhugashvili (Stalin)
          The numbers - obvious Jews are Trotsky, Steinberg, Shotman (probably)
          The rest are Slavs, Armenians and Georgians
          1. Hunter 2
            Hunter 2 16 November 2020 09: 51
            +7
            My mother belay Occupant!
            Now, this is a statistic, not a statement! good
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 16 November 2020 11: 43
              +8
              During the Second World War.
              The composition of the State Defense Committee - an extraordinary governing body that possessed full military, political and economic power in the USSR;
              GKO Chairman - I.V. Stalin,
              GKO Deputy Chairman - V. M. Molotov,
              GKO members - K. E. Voroshilov, G. M. Malenkov, L. P. Beria.
              On February 3, 1942, N.A. Voznesensky (at that time Chairman of the USSR State Planning Committee) and A.I. Mikoyan were appointed members of the State Defense Committee.
              On February 20, 1942, L.M. Kaganovich was introduced to the GKO.
              On November 22, 1944, N. A. Bulganin was appointed a member of the State Defense Committee instead of K. E. Voroshilov.
              In short - Georgian, Mingrel, Armenian, Jew, the rest - Russians
              1. Hunter 2
                Hunter 2 16 November 2020 11: 48
                +7
                Quote: Krasnodar
                During the Second World War.
                The composition of the State Defense Committee - an extraordinary governing body that possessed full military, political and economic power in the USSR;
                In short - Georgian, Mingrel, Armenian, Jew, the rest - Russians

                Pretty boy good Go on! Everyone is interested. yes
                1. Pane Kohanku
                  Pane Kohanku 16 November 2020 11: 56
                  +9
                  Go on! Everyone is interested.

                  I'll support Alexey! drinks
                2. Hantengri
                  Hantengri 16 November 2020 12: 09
                  10
                  Quote: Hunter 2
                  Handsome Go on! Everyone is interested.

                  My compliments to the whole honest company! hi
                  For those "everyone" who are interested:
                  https://m-sveta11.livejournal.com/911.html
                  https://m-sveta11.livejournal.com/1031.html
                  https://m-sveta11.livejournal.com/1524.html
                  1. Trilobite Master
                    Trilobite Master 16 November 2020 15: 50
                    +5
                    Interesting links, Igor, thanks.
                    There, in the comments to the first link, there was an attempt to analyze the ethnic composition of the revolutionary movement, comparing it with the ethnic composition of the population of the Russian Empire as a whole. Roughly speaking, to calculate how many revolutionaries there are for the conditional 100 people of a particular nationality, a kind of "percentage of revolutionism." smile
                    The author of the commentary found that the highest "percentage of revolutionism" is among Latvians - 6,87%, Jews - 4,82% and Georgians - 3,1%. Russians - 1,08% (sixth place, after more Armenians and Poles). One can argue about the calculation methodology, but if we assume that the methodology is correct and the results obtained are quite relevant, then it would be interesting to try to find an acceptable explanation for such spreads of numbers ...
                    1. Lexus
                      Lexus 17 November 2020 04: 19
                      +1
                      Michael hi,
                      The "explanation" of internationalism is now walking the streets of any city. wink
                3. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 16 November 2020 12: 12
                  +9
                  Chairmen of the Council of Ministers of the USSR:
                  Chairmen of the Council of Ministers of the USSR:
                  I. V. Stalin (19.3.1946–5.3.1953),
                  G. M. Malenkov (5.3.1953–8.2.1955),
                  N. A. Bulganin (8.2.1955–27.3.1958),
                  N. S. Khrushchev (27.3.1958–15.10.1964),
                  A. N. Kosygin (15.10.1964–23.10.1980),
                  N. A. Tikhonov (23.10.1980–27.9.1985),
                  N. I. Ryzhkov (27.9.1985–26.12.1990).
                  With the exception of Koba, all are Russian))
          2. vladcub
            vladcub 16 November 2020 14: 25
            +7
            Actually, a Russian surname is not yet an indicator of nationality. For example: Kamenev-Rosenfeld, Zinoviev-Apfelbaum, Kaverin-Zilbert. Have you met the data that Lenin-Blank, about Lunocharsky?
            For me, the more essential is: 1 mind and decency; 2 how he treated our history and culture; 3_who were we in the end for him: "an armful of firewood, a bunch of straw, for the fire of the world revolution or not
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 16 November 2020 14: 30
              +6
              Quote: vladcub
              Actually, a Russian surname is not yet an indicator of nationality. For example: Kamenev-Rosenfeld, Zinoviev-Apfelbaum, Kaverin-Zilbert. Have you met the data that Lenin-Blank, about Lunocharsky?
              For me, the more essential is: 1 mind and decency; 2 how he treated our history and culture; 3_who were we in the end for him: "an armful of firewood, a bunch of straw, for the fire of the world revolution or not

              https://m-sveta11.livejournal.com/911.html
              This is about Lenin Blank
              About surnames:
              Lenin - Ulyanov
              Dzhugashvili - Stalin
              Kirov - Kostrikov laughing
              1. vladcub
                vladcub 16 November 2020 18: 10
                +4
                I know, but Ulyanov-Blank is periodically "exaggerated". True, your Jewishness is passed on by your mother, in which case Ulyanov is not a Jew, perhaps partially: Swede, Chuvash, Russian
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 16 November 2020 18: 28
                  +3
                  Quote: vladcub
                  I know, but Ulyanov-Blank is periodically "exaggerated". True, your Jewishness is passed on by your mother, in which case Ulyanov is not a Jew, perhaps partially: Swede, Chuvash, Russian

                  It's so clear what is being discussed
                  A person needs the guilty, moreover, many people still think that if it were not for the Jews / Masons / Englishmen, we would live like Switzerland)).
                  1. vladcub
                    vladcub 16 November 2020 20: 06
                    +3
                    That's for sure. Therefore, it remained to shout about the Judeo-Masonic conspiracy
                    1. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar 16 November 2020 20: 42
                      +1
                      Or the Bolshevik-Jewish
            2. Trilobite Master
              Trilobite Master 16 November 2020 16: 10
              +7
              Quote: vladcub
              Actually, a Russian surname is not yet an indicator of nationality.

              As well as non-Russian. smile
              Blank is Lenin's mother's maiden name. She was one of the Russified Germans.
              Quote: vladcub
              For me, the more essential is: 1 mind and decency; 2 how he felt about our history and culture; 3 who in the end were we to him

              I would name slightly different qualities.
              1. Mind. As part of this mind - pragmatism and realistic thinking. "Politics is the art of the possible, the unattainable does not exist."
              2. A hypertrophied thirst for power (which a politician must strengthen and extend to everyone and everything), and irrepressible ambitions.
              3. Unlimited ambition, thirst for fame and historical immortality. Enter at least a school history book.
              4. Huge reserves of personal energy. Do not give up. Work, work and work to achieve the set goals.
              Everything else is decency (for a politician, in general, an impermissible luxury, for which his people will pay off), attitude to history and culture (remember Peter the Great) and everything else should be dictated to him exclusively by the first point - the mind.
              smile hi
              1. vladcub
                vladcub 16 November 2020 20: 12
                +2
                Regarding point 2: he is not attractive to me, what we see: both the collapse of the Union, and the "dashing" 90s "zeroing". This is all point 2 + 4.
                1. Lexus
                  Lexus 17 November 2020 04: 23
                  +1
                  Glory hi,
                  about "today" I would dispute point 4. The little hands do not rise higher "on ..." wassat
                  1. vladcub
                    vladcub 17 November 2020 14: 48
                    +1
                    Although Samsonov is rushing against Yu.V., I think that he was the last relatively decent leader of the state. And then the mind and decency passed into the category of DIFCIT, as Raikin said
                    PS
                    Sometimes I watch Raikin. He was a talented satirist. What it costs: a Stakhanov-style suit. “I’ll only find panties, I’ll come to you in a lorry,” and: “let everything be, but something will not happen”
                2. Trilobite Master
                  Trilobite Master 17 November 2020 09: 30
                  +2
                  A person with a hypertrophied lust for power would never share it. Gorbachev and Yeltsin did not value power - they distributed it to whoever needed it, hence the result.
                  1. vladcub
                    vladcub 17 November 2020 15: 08
                    +2
                    Misha, here it is like this: Gorbachev's mind is very tense. He is like Kerensky: he ran after his tongue.
                    And EBN fermented and everything else does not give a fuck.
                    Alexander 3, according to the attending physician, allowed 1-2 glasses for lunch, but this was only to strengthen health. And EBN and Petrushka those REALLY KVASIL
                    We have a Roma nurse living in our village, her husband was a surgeon from God, but "poured over the collar" and from cerosis ... She is a wonderful nurse, but her husband taught her the result: she changed 9 jobs and everything was due to "kvass". For another 16 years she was one of the wealthiest, and now she is a little better than a bum
                    1. Trilobite Master
                      Trilobite Master 17 November 2020 16: 50
                      0
                      Here I am about: if a ruler has the qualities I have listed, the people behind him are like a stone wall - in peace and prosperity. There is a constant squabble at the top, once every six months someone is displaced, imprisoned, shot, and people look at it like at the starry sky: oh! the star has fallen ... AND EVERYTHING IS GOOD ... Even if their ruler eats a fresh liver of a five-year-old child for breakfast every day, people do not care, especially if children are brought to him from abroad ... smile
                      1. Engineer
                        Engineer 17 November 2020 18: 50
                        0
                        Can you give examples of such a ruler? I ask without mockery.
                      2. Trilobite Master
                        Trilobite Master 17 November 2020 19: 00
                        0
                        Ivan III, for example ... From foreign countries - Elizabeth I of England, or Louis XI Fox, King of France, you can recall the Roman or Byzantine emperors ... Somewhere on the periphery there is some kind of war with someone, we are once again someone was defeated, annexed (who? why?), but everything is fine with us, taxes would be reduced a little - in general, it would be possible to live ...
                      3. Engineer
                        Engineer 17 November 2020 19: 04
                        0
                        That is, 0 for Russia over the past 500 years.
                      4. Trilobite Master
                        Trilobite Master 17 November 2020 19: 36
                        +1
                        In a classic, almost perfect form, and so that they also rule for a long time - yes, zero. So there are not very many of them in world history. Stalin could be remembered, but he was unlucky with time - there were not many quiet years, then you need to prepare for war in a fire brigade, then fight, then restore the country ... Otherwise, it would have completely disappeared.
                        Well, there were, of course, more people who were generally worthy, but something was missing to the ideal, although still not enough. laughing
                      5. Engineer
                        Engineer 17 November 2020 19: 43
                        0
                        I won't say anything about Stalin, my opinion is already known
                        So there are not very many of them in world history.

                        In order for the country to prosper with such rulers (whose qualities are listed above), they must initially gain power peacefully
                        If not, then this is

                        2. A hypertrophied thirst for power (which a politician must strengthen and extend to everyone and everything), and irrepressible ambitions.


                        will plunge the country into bloody chaos
                      6. Trilobite Master
                        Trilobite Master 17 November 2020 19: 54
                        0
                        Into bloody chaos - only if there are two or more of them. But such a coincidence is unlikely. smile
                        In other cases, competitors are doomed. Is that a short strife, during which fewer people will die than will be executed later. smile
                      7. Engineer
                        Engineer 17 November 2020 20: 13
                        0
                        Have arrived. The majority of such examples. The second does not need to be a copy of the first, it is enough just not to be willing to give in.
                        Caesar-Pompey, Octavian-Antony, Vittelius-Vespasian, Constantine-Licinius, Mari-Sulla, Niger-North.

                        Plus, most importantly, your concept is fundamentally flawed, because in anticipation of such a Messiah we will pin all our hopes on one person and break off for centuries instead of building a civil society based on balance and compromise.
                        This means not just stepping on a rake, this is some kind of twerking on them
                      8. Trilobite Master
                        Trilobite Master 17 November 2020 20: 47
                        +1
                        God forbid, Denis. I just listed the qualities that, in my opinion, the ideal politician should have. I'm not going to wait for anyone, let alone pin hopes. This topic also has nothing to do with the question of the form of government and methods of transferring power. I can't judge how all the characters you listed were close to my "standard", but Caesar, Octavian and Sulla, in my opinion, were not such, but that's not even the point.
                        Do you dislike the selection of qualities that I consider necessary for a politician? What qualities from my list do you consider unnecessary or harmful? I am ready to defend the necessity of everyone. I am also ready to familiarize myself with your similar list and discuss it. Perhaps I will make changes or additions to my own.
                        And, by the way, the presence of such an "ideal" cadre in power does not at all mean the absence of balance and compromises, checks and balances. In my opinion, these are inalienable attributes of any power, without exception. It's just that some people know how to deploy this system in the right direction without disturbing the balance, others do not. Those who know how (and for this, just such qualities as those that I have listed are needed) are great. Those who know how to do it quickly are very good. Those who correctly identify the right side are just a godsend. smile
                        It even became interesting how you imagine the power of the head of state without these very "balances and compromises." smile
                      9. Engineer
                        Engineer 17 November 2020 20: 56
                        0
                        In your concept, the politician is the central figure, and according to your interpretation, his lust for power borders on pathology.
                        The end is a little predictable (c)
                        He said: “I feel sorry for you,
                        You will perish completely;
                        But I have a stick
                        And I am a father to all of you! .. "


                        What qualities from my list do you consider unnecessary or harmful?

                        2 and 3 are absolutely superfluous

                        Caesar, Octavian and Sulla, in my opinion, were not such, but that's not even the point.

                        Not in this so not in this, although I do not know people who meet those four criteria more.
                        Sulla is just superfluous.
                      10. Trilobite Master
                        Trilobite Master 18 November 2020 11: 28
                        +2
                        Continue? smile
                        Anyway, there is nothing more to discuss today. smile
                        In your opinion, the lust for power and excessive ambition are superfluous for a politician? Do you want to leave them only mind and energy?
                        I am afraid that then you will succeed in anyone: either a businessman (if you add the thirst for enrichment to these two points), or a scientist (if curiosity is the third dominant feature), a writer (fantasy) or an inventor (a craving for technical creativity), or someone then the other, if you add the appropriate "qualifying", so to speak, "fad" ...
                        A person who does not have p.p. 2 and 3 simply will not go to power, and being with her for some reason (birth in an august family, for example), will not become a good ruler. Obsession with power guarantees us that power will be strong, and ambition that it will be used not for personal purposes, but for the public good.
                      11. Engineer
                        Engineer 18 November 2020 12: 30
                        +1
                        Continue?

                        I didn't even take off my hat with a feather)

                        Politician-businessman (with a business background) that's great


                        A person who does not have p.p. 2 and 3 just won't go to power

                        We read again

                        2.Hypertrophied thirst power (by which the politician must with all his might strengthen and extend to everyone and everything), and irrepressible ambition.
                        3. Unlimited ambition, thirst for fame and historical immortality. Enter at least a school history book.

                        Just healthy ambition and voila. We will succeed in everything.
                        A person who does not have p.p. 2 and 3 simply will not go to power, and being with her for some reason (born in an august family, for example), will not become a good ruler.


                        The entire Roman "golden age" was created by such people.
                        Nerva, Trajan, Adrian, Antonin, Marcus Aurelius. "Five Good Emperors"
                        Later, the same Diocletian brought Rome out of the "crisis of the 3rd century"

                        Obsession with power ensures that power will be strong

                        Doesn't guarantee anything at all

                        ambition is that it will not be used for personal purposes, but for the public good.

                        What-what, excuse me?
                        Ambition is about selfishness and not about the public good
                        Alexander the Great, Caesar, Napoleon - did society feel better? Or is it the other way around?
                      12. Trilobite Master
                        Trilobite Master 18 November 2020 13: 51
                        +1
                        Quote: Engineer
                        The entire Roman "golden age" was created by such people.

                        Power is a very sweet bait, too sweet not to gather around a large number of people willing to use it, therefore its achievement and retention always required and still requires a fair amount of effort, often on the verge of complete exhaustion. There is hardly a person who is capable of making such efforts to achieve what he, in general, does not need.
                        The emperors you named certainly had the qualities set forth in paragraphs. 2 and 3, the question can only be about as far as these qualities were "hypertrophied, unlimited and irrepressible" in them. I do not imply the meaning of a certain absolute in these concepts, I just want to emphasize that these components of a politician's personality should be dominant over the rest. The fact that some politicians were able to achieve success with low (relatively low smile ) the level of lust for power and ambition can also indicate that they could achieve more, if this level was higher for them.
                        Quote: Engineer
                        Doesn't guarantee anything at all

                        Again, in isolation from the rest - yes, it does not guarantee. But other things being equal, it is the power-hungry person who will create a more stable and manageable system of power.
                        Quote: Engineer
                        Ambition is about selfishness and not about the public good

                        Then all we have is selfishness. Even the most sincere charity, when its motives are not personal PR ratings, tax evasion or something similar, is also selfishness, because a person ultimately tries for himself, for his spiritual comfort. You see, he feels bad when the children around him suffer, so he gives them money in order to buy off his own conscience. With such reflections, we will bring any motivation to egoism.
                        Ambition is when a person wants to be loved, praised, idolized. Moreover, a true ambitious, and not an ambitious fraud, needs to be loved and adored sincerely, voluntarily and deservedly, and not as a result of some kind of deception. The most obvious and simple way to realize your ambitious ambitions is to do people well, then they will praise and glorify you completely sincerely and voluntarily and deservedly. Yes, selfishness in its pure form, but it is projected onto the surrounding reality quite decently for itself.
                        Quote: Engineer
                        Alexander the Great, Caesar, Napoleon

                        Was it bad for the common people? Well, the French, of course, got it, but only after Napoleon began to suffer defeat. And during the period of victories, everything was wonderful for the people.
                        Alexander is fighting somewhere in India, Caesar is having fun in Egypt, Napoleon is crushing another coalition somewhere in the east (where is this Austerlitz in general?) - and it's good that they are there, while they are fighting there, no one will definitely come to us. Well, they take young guys to the war. So this, maybe not bad - there is no need to divide the land, otherwise, you see, he will return home with a profit ... Everyone is happy.
                        I, in any case, see it somehow so.
                      13. Engineer
                        Engineer 18 November 2020 14: 11
                        0
                        The emperors you named certainly had the qualities set forth in paragraphs. 2 and 3, the question can only be about how these qualities were "hypertrophied, unlimited and irrepressible" in them.

                        All these emperors possessed them in very moderate doses.
                        Diocletian generally instituted tetrarchy and Attention !! retired to privacy.
                        Marcus Aurelius shared power without problems with Lucius Verus
                        And you assure me of their irrepressible ambitions and lust for power.

                        Was it bad for the common people?

                        Here it is straightforward
                        Alexander destroyed Thebes and slaughtered and enslaved their defenders, slaughtered several thousand Greeks who left one of the Alexandria founded by him. In his absence, the Greco-Macedonian war began. They tell me about the wonderful life of the people.
                        Caesar himself unleashed a civil war. They tell me about the wonderful life of the people.
                        About Napoleon
                        And during the period of victories, everything was wonderful for the people.

                        This is amazing. As long as it wins, it means that our qualities work for the good. How does it start to lose does not count? Great.
                        It doesn't matter with what score you were leading, the main thing is the result. The result of Napoleon's rule is entire villages without men 17-70 years old and the middle class devastated by the continental blockade. They tell me about the wonderful life of the people.
                      14. Trilobite Master
                        Trilobite Master 18 November 2020 15: 11
                        0
                        Alexander still lacked intelligence (p. 1, in terms of realism and "unattainable"). He was a genius commander, but did not show himself in terms of state building. As for Thebes, it was an uprising, as far as I remember, "timed" to the death of his Pope Philip. Also, the rebellion of Agis is actually an echo of the battle of Chaeronea and the result of Persian intrigues. But in general, everything was not bad at all in the state of Alexander.
                        Caesar started a war? I'm more inclined to give the palm to Pompey here. Caesar seized power, if I remember correctly, practically bloodless. Next is the civil war. Everything happened on the periphery, it is difficult to assess its damage to the population. In general, the losses of the parties were, in comparison with other wars of Rome, not so great.
                        Napoleon - well, this is a more complicated question. Again, are his defeats, and, accordingly, the plight of France at the end of his reign, a direct consequence of precisely his lust for power and ambition? I cannot answer this question unambiguously. Could he have stopped and at what point? Give up a life-long consulate or proclaim yourself emperor? After Tilsit? Did he objectively have any choice at all? And would France be better if he still renounced the title of emperor and just at some point retired from business, like Diocletian? I'm not sure that this example of yours refutes my concept either.
                        Well, Diocletian will be considered an exception that proves the rule. smile
                      15. Engineer
                        Engineer 18 November 2020 16: 32
                        +1
                        Alexander still lacked intelligence

                        Alexander had enough intelligence. The task was beyond any mind.
                        But irrepressible ambition just forces you to constantly take on the burden "uncomfortable".
                        and in terms of state building, sebfya did not show

                        The Hellenistic states held out for two centuries, and this is the great merit of Alexander.
                        As for Thebes, it was an uprising, as far as I remember, "timed" to the death of his Pope Philip. Also, the rebellion of Agis is actually an echo of the battle of Chaeronea and the result of Persian intrigues.

                        How does this disprove the fact that there was a mess, confusion and war in Greece? Where is the well-being of ordinary citizens?
                        But in general, everything was not bad at all in the state of Alexander.

                        Where can I read about it?
                        In general, Alexander's power was even worse than in Greece. Tire, Bactria (especially), Persepolis.

                        Caesar started a war? I'm more inclined to give the palm to Pompey here.

                        Caesar lost the political confrontation - he could not block the Senate decision through the controlled tribunes. Pompey won it and achieved a state of emergency. Pompey was empowered by the Senate.
                        Senatus consultum ultimum is the legitimization of any actions of Pompey received from the Senate, the highest authority in Rome. Dot.
                        Caesar is known to have crossed the Rubicon and unleashed a civil war.

                        Napoleon - well, this is a more complicated question. Again, are his defeats, and, accordingly, the plight of France at the end of his reign, a direct consequence of precisely his lust for power and ambition? I cannot answer this question unambiguously.

                        It seems that all and sundry have already answered unequivocally. From Walter Scott to Tarle. Definitely YES.

                        Summary
                        Quality 1- Mind is not a guarantee against total failure, especially if tasks are higher than this mind itself.
                        2. The hypertrophied lust for power in the vast majority of cases is a minus and not a plus
                        3. Irrepressible ambition is again a minus, not a plus. For such a person will be subject to the influence of flattering villains, from whom even the most sober mind will not help. Man increasingly loses touch with reality like Caesar and Alexander in recent years. The trailer goes lack of any decency which you also proclaimed. Hence the freedom from any obligations. Desire and willingness to cut corners and walk over heads.

                        You completely ignore the historical conjuncture - the logic of events, which thousands of outstanding people have crashed against. No matter how cool you are, a person cannot stop global objective events such as the collapse of the Roman Empire. Points 2 and 3 make people ignore reality and drown everything in blood in pursuit of chimeras.


                        The fact that some politicians were able to achieve success with a low (relatively low smile) level of lust for power and ambition may also indicate that they could have achieved more if they had this level higher.


                        Can speak, but rather not. For Diocletian and Aurelius is about common sense first of all.

                        So I proclaimed my primacy - Mind-Will-Common Sense in approximately the same proportion. Elementary decency will not spoil this cocktail "Big Politician"
              2. VLR
                18 November 2020 12: 59
                +1
                "lust for power and excessive ambition" is passionarity, according to Gumilev (if you add energy and willpower sufficient to achieve goals, without them - Vasisualy Lokhankin or Manilov).
            3. andrew42
              andrew42 24 November 2020 13: 39
              0
              That's just it, that a politician! A ruler, inter alia, has to be a good politician - among other things. But a brilliant Politician is not always a Ruler, many remain at the level of intriguers and crooks.
        3. vladcub
          vladcub 18 November 2020 14: 26
          0
          Then I agree.
  • vladcub
    vladcub 18 November 2020 14: 23
    +1
    I would add Simeon the Proud. During his reign, the Moscow principality did not fight and ALL problems were solved by "diplomats", although then they did not yet know such a word. And Ivan 3 had to "fight" the details I do not remember, but to look in scrap.
    People like Louis "Saint" should be looked for.
    I think that Alexander III can be added here: Russia did not fight, and the war, ANYTHING, affects the people. And taxes were low.
  • vladcub
    vladcub 18 November 2020 14: 09
    0
    This is some kind of Bocasa. True to his subjects for lunch
  • vladcub
    vladcub 16 November 2020 13: 10
    +7
    "Alawites have occupied key positions in the army" in fact Assad puts it and it is natural that he primarily relies on his own.
    1. Korsar4
      Korsar4 16 November 2020 21: 33
      +3
      This gradually began, and led to the leadership of Hafiz Assad.
  • Bolt cutter
    Bolt cutter 16 November 2020 15: 55
    +2
    Minorities are religious, ethnic and even these are rainbow wassat on a subconscious level they have a feeling of elbowing. At the last job of his wife, the post of manager received a rooster - a year later all the managers-supervisors were already from his brother wink And they took only their own to work.
    The example of Armenian bankers is somewhat similar
    1. Bolt cutter
      Bolt cutter 17 November 2020 10: 39
      -2
      One cock and it turns out to be zaregan belay -minus from resentment put tongue .
      1. Bolt cutter
        Bolt cutter 17 November 2020 20: 11
        -1
        Golden scallop, open face laughing Nick.
  • Olgovich
    Olgovich 16 November 2020 07: 28
    +9
    One thing can be stated: those whom Russia did not manage to liberate were massacred by "tolerant" Turks.

    Russia saved the Greeks, Serbs, Macedonians, Bulgarians, Romanians from destruction.

    Alas, few of them remember this and are grateful ...
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. ee2100
      ee2100 16 November 2020 07: 42
      +5
      Now the Armenians blame Putin for "dumping" them. So the lessons have not been learned.
    3. Trilobite Master
      Trilobite Master 16 November 2020 15: 50
      +5
      Quote: Olgovich
      One thing can be stated: those whom Russia did not manage to liberate were massacred by "tolerant" Turks.

      Another thing can be stated: while the Turks were religiously tolerant, their empire expanded and prospered, but as soon as this empire became the "sick man of Europe", all sorts of nationalist radical abomination immediately broke through, resulting in well-known acts of genocide. Conclusion: the spread of a radically nationalist infection in a multinational state is a clear indicator of its illness and its imminent disintegration. There are a lot of historical examples, including the Russian Empire, with its Black Hundreds.
      1. Kwas
        Kwas 17 November 2020 23: 54
        +1
        You speak the truth. It will also be appropriate to recall the Weimar-Hitlerite Germany.
  • Daniil Konovalenko
    Daniil Konovalenko 16 November 2020 08: 01
    +6
    In such a small article, the author touched on an extensive topic ... over a long period of time ..
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 16 November 2020 09: 37
    +5
    I wish you all good health, otherwise you can get confused with time zones.
    Valery, thank you for not forgetting us.
    I feel like I'm learning a lot. There will be something to discuss with the girls.
  • Cure72
    Cure72 16 November 2020 10: 25
    +7
    Great sequel. Thank you very much !!!
  • vladcub
    vladcub 16 November 2020 13: 03
    +7
    Valery, thanks for the job, it is interesting as usual, but this is already banal.
    You touched upon a new and little-covered topic - interethnic and interfaith relations in the Turkish Empire.
    Now it has become a walking cliche: the Arab-Israeli war, Islamic terrorists, etc. It turns out that Armenians, Jews, etc. have lived in a Muslim country for centuries and reached great heights. This means that it was possible to coexist peacefully, and why now they cannot? Who is to blame and when did it start?
  • ee2100
    ee2100 16 November 2020 17: 31
    +3
    Conclusion: the spread of a radically nationalist infection in a multinational state is a clear indicator of its illness and its imminent disintegration. There are a lot of historical examples, including the Russian Empire, with its Black Hundreds. [/ Quote]
    Is there no analogy with the Russian Federation?
    You can also remember the Roman Empire. Doesn't it remind you of anything?
    1. Trilobite Master
      Trilobite Master 16 November 2020 19: 22
      +3
      Quote: ee2100
      Is there no analogy with the Russian Federation?

      Radical nationalism is a disease. It sticks to the weakened organism of the state and strikes it completely. The Russian Federation is still able to fight this infection. But if this filth is encouraged at the state level, personally I will seriously think about changing my place of residence to some remote village and start hone my skills of survival in the wild. I will periodically go out of the forest, shoot the newly-minted fascists and go back into the swamps, as my grandfather's brother (after whom I was named) did from June 1941 to February 1944.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. ee2100
        ee2100 16 November 2020 22: 35
        +2
        Those. think about it. It means not everything is calm in our kingdom.
        "Neither you brother to me, black-footed" is not taken out of thin air.
        1. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 16 November 2020 23: 51
          +2
          Quote: ee2100
          Those. think about it.

          Right now they said insultingly ... As if they doubted that I was "thinking" ...
          Quote: ee2100
          "Neither you brother to me, black-footed" is not taken out of thin air.

          In the 90s, the country was really sick, seriously ill. And there was much more radical nationalism than now. The ideas of "white power" were not at all so harmless and clown-like touching and cute as they are now - people were actually killed on the streets, not to mention less serious crimes. They killed simply because the person spoke the wrong language.
          Many of these newly-minted Russian Nazis were imprisoned, some died in internal squabbles (money is always divided badly), someone settled down ... They still exist, but much less than they were twenty years ago. So, judging by this indicator, the country is recovering.
          I am glad that I managed to put my own hand in this process, I mean cleansing the country of the Nazi mold. In the next world, I, an elderly man (or an old man already), will not be ashamed to look my young twenty-year-old grandfathers in the eyes.
          1. ee2100
            ee2100 17 November 2020 01: 39
            +2
            I had no doubt that I "thought" laughing but who do you think are the "newly-minted fascists"?
        2. depressant
          depressant 17 November 2020 00: 07
          +6
          Yes, it’s not even a matter of ethnic and interethnic tensions in Russia, although they too. The leaderships of North Ossetia and Dagestan are worried: Russians are gradually leaving these republics! Tersk Cossacks are leaving!
          You can find data on the internet.
          Exactly the same thing is happening that happened in the USSR and became one of the conditions under which its collapse was possible. The Russians, as the cementing bond of the Russian Federation, are gradually reducing this function.
          Of those Russians who lived in these national formations for centuries, only old people remained. Those who arrived there as specialists to industrialize these republics in the 60s are now grandparents. Their children and grandchildren no longer stay in North Ossetia and Dagestan, they do not return there as home. Having studied in Russian cities, they have either already remained in Russian cities, or are now actively staying. Old people sell houses in the southern republics and move to their children and grandchildren, providing them with housing through buying it in a new place. The situation is more than serious. Ossetians and Dagestanis are frightened, seeing signs of the country's disintegration as they experience. After all, after the collapse, this will begin! Such ...

          And Russians are leaving, if only because there is no work for them, able-bodied and educated, in Dagestan and North Ossetia. Painful interethnic relations and Islamization with a retreat into medieval obscurantism can be viewed as an aggravating background specially fostered by the central government.
          And yes, our government started playing in deindustrialization and dumping money abroad.
          Or he does it all deliberately. For what purpose? I have already gone through all this. So really?
          The Russians don't want to be stabbed to death. So if just stabbed.
          1. ee2100
            ee2100 17 November 2020 01: 36
            +4
            “Another thing can be stated: while the Turks were religiously tolerant, their empire expanded and prospered, but as soon as this empire became a“ sick man of Europe, ”all sorts of nationalist radical abomination immediately broke through, resulting in well-known acts of genocide. Conclusion: the spread of a radical nationalist infection in a multinational state - a clear indicator of his illness and his imminent disintegration. "quote from Mikhail.
            I wrote everything correctly, but the main thing in this quote "flourished". So it is with the Union. While everything was fine, we did not notice some national "roughness". As in the Ottoman Empire, the outskirts of the USSR "blazed". National minorities, they constantly test the power for strength and only felt the weakness and went and went. The titular nation can fight traitors in power, but not destroy the country. As the dashing times come, both religious tolerance and internalism pass very quickly. Nationalism will not be born by itself.
      3. Lexus
        Lexus 17 November 2020 04: 27
        +1
        No longer very capable. It is a fact, but it is “from above” that I am encouraged. Because we are "superfluous".
        1. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 17 November 2020 10: 55
          +4
          I divide nationalism according to the place of origin into local nationalism and nationalism of the state-forming nation, and according to the degree of radicalism into radical and moderate.
          Moderate nationalism, in my understanding, is the desire to preserve one's own roots: language, culture, customs, to study them yourself, to teach this to others. In such nationalism, I do not see anything wrong and I am ready to support it.
          Radical nationalism, unlike moderate nationalism, does not imply the study of anything. Members of radical nationalist movements do not delve into the intricacies of the customs and culture of their ancestors, limiting themselves, as a rule, to a primitive set of symbols exclusively of military themes, while distorting their original meaning beyond recognition. The essence of radical nationalism is not to preserve one's own, but to destroy the foreign. It is precisely because of its destructive nature that such nationalism is extremely dangerous and absolutely useless in terms of creating something. In my opinion, it should be nipped in the bud, harshly, decisively and mercilessly in any of its manifestations, using all the means of state coercion to the fullest.
          According to the place of origin, nationalism (further I speak only of radical nationalism) can be central or local. National outskirts with their small-town nationalism is understandable, there he has always been, is and will be, and you need to fight him all the time, controlling, tracking and squeezing like acne from healthy skin. But even if you launch it, view it and completely lose control over its distribution, in the worst case it is fraught with separation, the loss of one province.
          But if the titular, state-forming nation becomes infected with radical nationalism, it is fraught with the collapse of the entire state, since the response to such nationalism will be an explosive growth of local nationalism even in those regions where it was not at all or where it was invisible before. For a multinational state, this will be the end - bloody and cruel. In relation to Russia, it will look like a war of all against all - the Kalmyks will slaughter with the Dagestanis (they will find it because of what), the Buryats with the Yakuts, the Tatars with the Chuvash and Bashkirs, and all together will slaughter the Russians, and with particular pleasure.
          Conclusion: radical nationalism in the Russian-speaking environment is the most dangerous for the state and must be suppressed with the greatest cruelty and consistency.
          And there's nothing you can do about it - you have to pay for everything. If you are a representative of the titular nation and it is your language that the whole country speaks, documents are written, laws are drawn up, the symbols of your people are on the emblem and flag of a single multinational state, then the responsibility is on you, as a representative of this people, and the demand from you is greater.
          What to do?
          To prove that your people are not in vain a state-forming one. To work, study, teach others - their values, of course, do not forget to multiply, where without it ... In short, work on yourself, build your life, at the same time involving as many people as possible into your cultural space, transforming them - exclusively voluntarily! - in the bearers of their own values. Not to rest on the laurels of the founding people of a great state, but to constantly prove to all surrounding nations their right to be and remain the first among equals. Only this way and nothing else. It is necessary for the most part to be smarter, more educated, more energetic, hardworking, bolder than others, so that in any corner of the country anyone looking at a Russian can say: “Here is Russian, he knows and can do more than I do, so he lives better, than I am and therefore I need to be like him, I need to learn from him to be like him. "
          This is how the local population from Siberia and Central Asia, the Caucasus and other places greeted our ancestors, and this is how this country was created.
          And, most importantly, no radical ideas ...
          1. ee2100
            ee2100 17 November 2020 13: 14
            +3
            Michael! Your commentary was written in the best traditions of Marxism-Leninism. It seems that he said something and played with terms, but about nothing. It was necessary to add here Russian great-power chauvenism, and at least take it to the Pravda Gudka newspaper!
            "Moderate and radical nationalism"! Maybe you can draw the border even more clearly. It is not a moderate camouflaged radical. Like we are sitting here history, studying culture, well, and fixing a primus with AKem.
            The meaning of the note is that the Russians sit and do not twitch, otherwise they will write you into the nationalist extremists, and this is already an article of the UK.
            Not a word has been said about patriotism. It feels like this word is generally prohibited. And patriotism and nationality are twins, brothers!
            Yesterday, though in another section of this site, there was an article by Samsonov about the unpreparedness of the modern Russian army for a full-fledged war. I advise everyone to read it. There is a lot of truth in it. Although they fire him here, this article copied a lot. Thanks to him, or to the editors for the courage.
            And the fact that an amorphous-amoebic mass was created from modern Russian society is a fact. When the Chinese-NATO-Turkish-Ukrainian troops are marching through the streets of Russian cities, this society will only do - it will shoot all this from its balconies with a smartphone.
            As the great Mikhail Zhvanetsky said, "We will not help in a fight, we will win the war." Unfortunately, this is no longer about us.
            1. Trilobite Master
              Trilobite Master 17 November 2020 14: 24
              +1
              Quote: ee2100
              the commentary was written in the best traditions of Marxism-Leninism.

              And I realized a long time ago that the communists had a lot to learn in terms of national policy. The only drawback of this approach is that it requires strong state power and effective state control over the national borderlands. And, of course, time.
              I am wondering which specific thesis from my commentary do you disagree with? What did I write wrong?
              Well, if you do not agree with something, what alternatives can you suggest?
              Quote: ee2100
              The meaning of the note is that the Russians sit and do not twitch, otherwise they will write you into the nationalist extremists, and this is already an article of the UK.

              The meaning of "notes" - Russians, live like people, work, have children, study yourself, teach others, grow rich - only then you will be respected, taken from you as an example and listened to, recognizing as elders.
              Quote: ee2100
              Maybe you can draw the border even more clearly.

              Much clearer. The preservation of one's own and the destruction of someone else's - in my opinion, there is no clearer borderline. But in order for no one to bring a machine gun to a meeting of a circle for reading folk literature or singing folk songs, and effective control is needed.
              Well, about patriotism, if we take the original meaning of this concept, namely love for the Motherland, then I will not talk about this in relation to myself. And so it should be clear, and if someone does not understand - his problems. I am not going to prove to someone that I love my Motherland.
              Well, if you take patriotism in the style of "Russia for Russians", "Russians are the salt of the earth", etc., then this is not at all for me.
              So, returning to the beginning of my comment: what exactly from what has been said do you disagree and how do you think it will be correct?
              1. ee2100
                ee2100 17 November 2020 15: 20
                +4
                Neither school nor university could explain to me why nationalism is good for other peoples, but for the Russian people it is called chauvenism. My opinion is that you stayed on this issue in the days of developed socialism, and the world has changed a long time ago. You think in allied categories, and what was rolling then, now the Russian death. And it is high time for the Russian people to shout that they will soon become a minority in the Russian Federation.
                The Chechens won back from the metropolis to live on a grand scale. Well done! But for the state as a whole, this is a negative example, both politically and forcefully.
                It's no secret that now in the power departments,
                administration, health care, etc. the dominance of people from the Caucasus.
                Doesn't it bother you? A rhetorical question.
                The media and propaganda have practically broken the backbone of Russianness. And you continue the old song "let's live together, let's work well, let's carry the good and the eternal."
                Time has gone irrevocably and cannot be turned back. Now other realities and other landmarks.
                Your statement "I will shoot the newly-minted fascists" I asked you, and who is this? You were modestly silent.
                Maybe tomorrow you will wake up and the country is already different and only then will you understand who you need to shoot or will you carry the good and the eternal?
                It is clear that this site is a "swamp" where each sandpiper praises his bump and the sense of our conversation is 0 (zero).
                PS have you read Samsonov's article?
                1. Trilobite Master
                  Trilobite Master 17 November 2020 16: 40
                  +2
                  Once again, nationalism is different and the line between what is permissible, from my point of view, and what is unacceptable, I think I have drawn quite clearly.
                  Quote: ee2100
                  And it is high time for the Russian people to shout that they will soon become a minority in the Russian Federation.

                  Well, let's shout. What's next? How do you think it is correct to act in the current realities?
                  Quote: ee2100
                  The media and propaganda have practically broken the backbone of Russianness.

                  What does this mean? I am not sure that I correctly understand the meaning of the word "Russianness" and what is meant by its "ridge". It was only possible to break what existed, I am interested in what form this Russianness existed, when ...
                  Quote: ee2100
                  Now other realities and other landmarks.

                  Once again: what? Where and how should we go, you don't say anything about it.
                  Quote: ee2100
                  I asked you, and who is this? You were modestly silent.

                  Didn't consider it important. But since you are interested and you attach importance to this - if you please.
                  Newly-born fascists are individuals who adhere to an ultranationalist ideology based on the declaration of the lawfulness of the use of violence or infringement of rights against any person on racial, ethnic or confessional grounds. It'll do? smile Key words - "violence" and "infringement of rights".
                  I ask you to focus and still answer me:
                  Which of my theses do you think are wrong and in what way?
                  What do you want to propose instead of the theses you criticize?
                  Without answers to these questions, our discussion becomes meaningless.
                  I will briefly repeat the theses for clarity.
                  1. For a multinational state, only radical nationalism is dangerous, a distinctive feature of which is calls for destructive actions.
                  2. Nationalism among the state-forming people is more dangerous and therefore requires a tougher reaction from the authorities than the nationalism of the borderlands.
                  3. The authority of a people in a multinational state is confirmed only by peaceful labor, development and prosperity.
                  4. Violence in order to resolve national issues can and must be strictly applied exclusively to targeted individuals caught in the dissemination of radical ideas.
                  5. Infringement of the rights of individual citizens or national communities within the framework of one state on racial, national or religious grounds is unacceptable.
                  1. ee2100
                    ee2100 17 November 2020 17: 14
                    +2
                    I do not want to discuss with you, because we approach this problem in different ways. As always, we will remain with our opinion.
                    But I believe that time is changing very quickly and for the Russian Federation it may have already passed.
                    A rhetorical question. Who is protesting in Khabarovsk and Belarus? Nationalists or patriots?
                    1. Trilobite Master
                      Trilobite Master 17 November 2020 17: 21
                      +2
                      And again questions and no answers. smile
                      The protests in Khabarovsk and in Belarus have nothing to do with the national question. smile
                      1. ee2100
                        ee2100 17 November 2020 17: 56
                        +1
                        "No answers" You are trying to translate the discussion into the field of scholasticism and terminology, but I want it to be closer to real life.
                        Are protests related to patriotism?
                      2. Trilobite Master
                        Trilobite Master 17 November 2020 18: 24
                        +2
                        Quote: ee2100
                        Are protests related to patriotism?

                        In the sense of love at home or in the sense of a political movement? I share these things.
                        And as for "scholasticism and terminology", I'm sorry, I'm sure that you just can't really refute what I said, formulate your own thoughts and ideas on the issue under discussion, because, as often happens, there is only a vague image in your head, general outline of these ideas.
                        I remembered the following anecdote:
                        Petka asks Vasily Ivanovich how much will be 1/2 + 1/2
                        "Here, Petka, in my gut I understand that a liter, but I can't prove it."
                        And what do you think Vasily Ivanovich gave the correct answer?
                      3. ee2100
                        ee2100 17 November 2020 18: 50
                        -1
                        There is no point in arguing with the written truths and I will answer your 5 questions or theses - yes, I completely agree with this, but I'm talking about something else, I'm talking about real life, and not in the texture in which you live. I understand that if you watch DH, then there are no problems in the country. With enviable regularity in Europe, Islamists organize terrorist attacks, and the FSB reports on the discovered terrorist cell.
                        I am not discussing thoughts and ideas, I am just about the current situation.
                        I asked you specifically whether the performances in Khabarovsk and Minsk have anything to do with patriotism. As always, you pretended not to understand the best traditions and left the answer.
                        Returning to Chapaev. Quote: "Are you for the Bolsheviks or for the Communists? I am for the International. And what are you for the 2nd or 3rd?"
                        Here you are all.
                        It is more convenient for you to live! But as Comrade Lenin said, "you cannot live in society and be free from it"
                      4. Trilobite Master
                        Trilobite Master 17 November 2020 19: 27
                        +1
                        How can I answer your question if I don't understand it? If I can give two mutually exclusive answers to it?
                        Who do you mean by "patriots"? Nationalists? Liberals with their European integration? Simple hard workers who are simply tired of Lukashenka, how annoying is the old wife and want a tight young body? Students who "give freedom", but really just need adrenaline? Or maybe those who did not go to the protests and stayed at work instead of tearing their throats at the rally? Or the employees of the Ministry of Internal Affairs who have remained faithful to the oath and official duty? But what about those who were simply deceived? Are they patriots? By the way, there are a lot of such people who realized that they did not speak for what they thought about when they went to the rally; I know some of them personally.
                        Apparently you look at the world too simplistic for me.
                        Okay, especially for you, I'll simplify to the limit. Real patriots in Belarus did not go to protests if they were smart, and could go, if not very much. You see, even here I didn't get a definite answer. laughing
                      5. ee2100
                        ee2100 17 November 2020 19: 30
                        +1
                        Thanks for that, but what about Khabarovsk? I'm not talking about patriots, but about people who come out to the action. Who are they?
                      6. Trilobite Master
                        Trilobite Master 17 November 2020 19: 46
                        0
                        My opinion on Khabarovsk? I'm not very up to date there. Some, of course, were hired for money by those who, as a result of Furgal's resignation, lost their feeder. Some were probably sincere supporters of Furgal. Maybe he personally did something good for them or for them. Some just went to a get-together (young people). There were probably those who were simply "against Putin" - for all the grievances against the authorities ...
                        Do you see it differently? Like "people in a single impulse ..." Or vice versa - "bought screamers and titushki ..."
              2. depressant
                depressant 17 November 2020 19: 50
                +3
                Yes ... Misha gave it out))) For the newspaper "Sunrise".
                I agree, her colleague is 2100.
                Here I am, a living witness of how sweet small-town nationalism, such quiet nationalism in the form of local national customs, carefully observed by elders, and even with humor, with reservations and laughter, but observed by an enlightened national youth - nationalism that is not at all burdensome for representatives of other peoples, this cute, absolutely harmless nationalism exploded on one unpleasant winter night in 1984 with several murders of defenseless Russian old men and single women, and then continued to escalate with subsequent night killings under the blessing of a local, such a Soviet, such ideological administration to more than a hundred Russians victims, as well as kidnapping. And this small-town nationalism did not even want to talk about what was happening - with him, small-town nationalism, everything was in order, with him, small-town nationalism, even a decent case of concern did not appear on his face. And then the central government, which in the spring finally understood what was happening in its full horror and volume, had to introduce tanks into the town square. So they stood until the 92nd.
                Stop kamlata, Misha!
                We will not cut them, they will cut us in our primordial territory. Which, in fact, have been doing for a long time. Unless there is a massacre. Not yet.

                Any seemingly quiet and harmless nationalism of diasporas and small peoples is a fertile ground for the cultivation of ultra-radical nationalism, invisible, invisible to prying eyes, and therefore especially dangerous, because weapons against it are not prepared in advance.
                Can you see him? No? And he is!
                To the wrong address is your concern, Misha (((
              3. Trilobite Master
                Trilobite Master 17 November 2020 20: 27
                0
                Quote: depressant
                Any seemingly quiet and harmless nationalism of diasporas and small nations is a fertile ground for the cultivation of ultra-radical nationalism,

                And this is where the control mechanism exists. When a black sheep is introduced into such a compact herd, it must be ruthlessly removed. Control is a necessary condition for the existence of such a system and, in general, it is not so difficult to establish it. You described a situation where the central government was weak. I am ready to assume that the local police were smeared, the administration too, but the party organization, even if its head was "in business," his deputy had to be "from the center", as a result - a report to Moscow, a brigade of the capital "Rex", plus the local branch of the KGB, all this riffraff would be cleaned out in a month to the root. Also, a demonstrative process would have been conducted with the condemnation of the villains by local aksakals. Why this was not done I don’t know. Probably because of the weakness of the central government or as a result of some monstrous coincidence.
                Quote: depressant
                We will not cut them, they will cut us in our primordial territory.

                Do you realize that you will have to cut EVERYONE? Drive families out of their homes under machine guns and flamethrowers, women, children, old people, loyal, disloyal - no difference. After the first blood shed not by a court verdict, they will all become disloyal. So everyone will have to be cut. The question is - will it work? As a rule, it is precisely from such cases that innocent people who are hiding and did not think, the most loyal ones suffer, and inveterate scoundrels will hide ...
                So, do not cut, but calculate with the inevitability of the asphalt roller, take one at a time and in small groups, arrest, try and shoot or imprison for long periods under the angry condemnation of fellow villagers and the embarrassed disapproving glances of relatives. For committed criminal offenses, according to the Criminal Code, the same for everyone.
                The only way.
              4. ee2100
                ee2100 17 November 2020 21: 22
                +1
                You live in some other reality and this is visible not only to me. Your caution is more likely dictated by the profession, everywhere you see bought aunts, young people are not adrenalinized, etc. As Prof. Preobrazhensky said, “stop reading Soviet newspapers.” Go out and talk about life with common people.
              5. depressant
                depressant 17 November 2020 21: 53
                +2
                I agree, her colleague2100, Misha lives in another reality ((
                I would have such a reality.
              6. ee2100
                ee2100 17 November 2020 22: 06
                0
                I do not advise, alcohol is better, closer to reality
              7. depressant
                depressant 17 November 2020 22: 43
                +2
                By the way, I will add the words of Daniil Andreev, "The Rose of the World":

                “The most powerful movement of the first half of our century (1th, my explanation) was distinguished by the internationality of its doctrine and the planetary scope. the boundaries of those blissful zones, the chimera of which they seduced and bewitched. But they also strove for world domination, and, moreover, with colossal energy. "

                Has anyone canceled this aspiration of "opposing movements with colossal energy", if not for world domination, then the domination of diasporas over foreign occupied territory? It grows and arises even among the smallest nations.

                And further:
                "Cosmopolitan Americanism is now concerned with avoiding the mistakes of its predecessors."

                You can take care. Will it be possible to translate care into productive actions with a positive outcome? For example, General Leonid Grigorievich Ivashov believes that the 21st century will be the time for the creation of 800 new states. About 15 years ago, his words aroused enormous surprise in me. Like, where can there be so many peoples?
                Will pick up.
                The trend has become so irresistible that world globalism has outplayed the record. If in the 80s of the last century globalization was seen as the erasure of borders between states, now this principle, due to the obvious impossibility of its implementation, has been replaced by the principle of "divide and rule." The more small defenseless states there are, the easier they are controlled by globalists.
                In connection with the above, I propose not to delude ourselves with the opportunity to bribe radical nationalists, hiding under the guise of any seemingly peaceful diaspora, with our benevolence and condescension to their blunders in the form of "individual criminal offenses."
                Seeing this, they will consider us not very smart, in fact, simpletons, from whom their ancestral land should be taken away.
                And so far we are very successful in playing the role of such simpletons.

                So it seems that something similar was behind the massacre of Armenians in Turkey. For any massacre, genocide and holocaust. This is when the diaspora crosses the border of what is permissible. Either in numbers, or in behavior.
                Diasporas always need to send signals: if you want to live here, become us.
              8. Trilobite Master
                Trilobite Master 18 November 2020 00: 13
                +1
                Quote: ee2100
                You live in some other reality

                Quote: depressant
                I agree, her colleague 2100, Misha lives in a different reality

                Today is a bad day for you colleagues. I recommend erasing all your posts in this discussion and forgetting that it took place.
                I fully admit that each of you has personal reasons to hate representatives of other nationalities in our or some neighboring country, perhaps each of you is dominated by some difficult personal experience - in this case, I am sincerely sorry for you, but ... in my relation to your ideas it will not change anything.
                I have already told our staff Nazi Operator that I am ashamed that people like him write in Russian. I really do not want to repeat these words in your address.
                Okay, I live in an alternate reality. My village is beyond this world. I don't communicate with anyone and don't see what's going on. Let's admit. wassat
                But you, colleagues, seem to know everything, and the picture of the world in your heads is absolutely objective. Tell me, a foreign creature in this world, what to do with the national question? How to deal with national contradictions in a multinational state?
                Here Lyudmila Yakovlevna says foreigners should be cut. Cut them there, in the place of growth, until they cut us here. Did I understand correctly? Alexander, do you agree with this decision? Judging by your touching unanimity, quite.
                I'm just wondering: how much do you plan to reduce the population of the Russian Federation - at least approximately?
                And, just in case, figure out with your collective mind, being in objective reality, what will follow your actions ... What, for example, with representatives of other peoples and cultures living in Central Russia, far from your homeland, what to do with families where parents are representatives of different nations, what to do with their children? Will they give a subscription that they undertake to be baptized, profess Russian culture and not cook manti, but only dumplings?
                In general, think again before writing anything on this topic. Re-read what you have already piled on and think hard what follows from your words and where they will lead you, if now, this very minute you cannot refuse them. Good luck.
              9. ee2100
                ee2100 18 November 2020 00: 48
                +1
                "Here you Lyudmila Yakovlevna says you need to cut foreigners. Cut them there, at the place of growth, until they cut us here. I understand correctly? Alexander, do you agree with this decision? Judging by your touching unanimity, quite." your quote. Where did you get it all from, This is a question for your inflamed mind.
                I'm just wondering: how much do you plan to reduce the population of the Russian Federation - at least approximately?
                You seem to be a completely reasonable person, but you are likening to primitive propaganda.
                "What to do, for example, with representatives of other peoples and cultures living in Central Russia, far from their homeland, what about families, where parents are representatives of different nations, what to do with their children? They will give a subscription that they undertake to be baptized, to profess Russian culture and not to cook "Why do you smoke? Porking you is not real.
                Pull yourself together or do you already give a fuck?
              10. depressant
                depressant 18 November 2020 03: 20
                +1
                Lordyayayaya ... !!!
                Misha !!!
                Where did you see in my words a call to cut foreigners?!? What are you talking about?!?
                I just said that the diasporas, wishing to live among us, should become us, namely: not to slaughter the rams under my windows, as it happened more than once, not to accumulate evil for us because we are not like them, and not to radicalize on this occasion, accumulating a desire to cut us, locals. This is what I said, this and nothing else!
                Turks - they slaughtered their diasporas, because they have different concepts of justice and very little, if any, kindness. Personally, I am not aware of a single case when a Russian in peacetime would kill one of the locals on the territory of a national entity. Reverse cases on our, Russian, territory - a shaft! Or is it news to you?
                Well, what to do with this - with your desire to see in my words the meaning that I did not put in them? It turns out that since you Russians don't want us, the diaspora, to slaughter you, then you want to slaughter us, the diaspora, is that so? And if you just try to be loyal to us, the locals, who live in their original homeland, is that nothing? Not in an arc?
              11. Trilobite Master
                Trilobite Master 18 November 2020 10: 54
                0
                Lyudmila Yakovlevna, with all due respect, the phrase
                Quote: depressant
                We will not cut them, they will cut us in our primordial territory. Which, in fact, have been doing for a long time.

                it is impossible to understand otherwise than I understood it. The conversation here was not about rams. If you are unfortunate and have something else in mind, it would be nice for you to explain it.
                Your last comment, in particular
                Quote: depressant
                I just said that the diasporas, wishing to live among us, should become us, namely: not to slaughter the rams under my windows, as it happened more than once, not to accumulate evil for us because we are not like them, and not to radicalize on this occasion, accumulating a desire to cut us, locals.

                does not cause me any objections and does not disagree with my previous comments, regarding the fact that representatives of other peoples living in Russia should want to be like Russians, learn to be like Russians and we, Russians, should be an example for them for this. If this is what you meant, then I do not see any disagreement between us on this issue. If you also agree that any coercive and restrictive measures against the peoples of the Russian Federation that infringe on their rights on the territory of the Russian Federation, in comparison with Russians, are categorically unacceptable, then we will have no disagreements at all.
                Read again what you wrote before and you will be convinced that it was impossible to understand you differently than I understood, and what you have written now does not follow at all from what you have written before.
                I am by no means looking for enemies here, and I am not at all happy about their appearance. But explain the phrase about "cutting", please.
                As for you, Alexander, I simply have nothing to say to you, because everything that can be answered to your attacks, with all my efforts to avoid it, will come down to insults, since you yourself, in fact, have not written anything but insults. And in general, you very much disappointed me with the content of your comments in the course of our polemics, because their essence invariably boiled down to three theses: "I do not agree (without any because ...)", "what do you say about ..." and "you are inadequate." There is not a single argument or counter-thesis, but the barbs, from which I, by the way, tried to refrain (apparently, in vain), were in abundance.
                Henceforth, I consider myself in full moral right to respond to your comments in the same style. I hope that now my approach to our communication will not raise questions like "why?" That's exactly why.
                The topic of nationalism and attitudes towards it, I think, can be closed. I didn’t hear anything sensible and constructive from you yesterday, most likely I won’t hear anything today either. I remain in my opinion that in your person I have encountered a nationalist inclined to radicalism. At the same time, you are not the first (and, I'm afraid, not the last) person who has such political convictions side by side with the passion for the works of Klesov. I am not ready to make far-reaching generalizations on this basis, but I think it makes sense to think about this coincidence.
                See you. hi
              12. depressant
                depressant 18 November 2020 11: 22
                +2
                Misha, you are a sweet, intelligent person, and that's enough for us about the sad)))
                love hi
              13. ee2100
                ee2100 18 November 2020 12: 01
                +1
                I do not know why my questions caused so much negativity in you that you wrote me down as a radical Nazi, which I am not 100%. You yourself did not answer simple questions directly, but tried to play around in a streamlined manner and also accuses me of being aggressive.
                What I read by different authors, incl. and Klesov there is nothing criminal here. By the way about the latter. Yes, many criticize his activities, but no one has yet proved that this is a pseudo science.
                The whole world uses the works of geneticists, and some Russian historians have written down the section of paleogenetics as pseudoscientific.
                Good luck and have a nice day!
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 17 November 2020 17: 31
    +1
    Are there still protests in Khabarovsk?
    1. ee2100
      ee2100 17 November 2020 17: 57
      0
      Instagram to help you
    2. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 17 November 2020 18: 05
      +2
      Thanks. Do not use.
    3. ee2100
      ee2100 17 November 2020 18: 11
      +1
      Why? Are you stuck in textures?
    4. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 17 November 2020 18: 26
      +2
      No ... I'm just trying to limit the sources of information.
    5. ee2100
      ee2100 17 November 2020 18: 54
      +2
      Protests have been held in Khabarovsk for over 100 days. It is clear that the CT is silent.
    6. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 17 November 2020 18: 58
      +4
      Thanks. I'll take a look. One of my life principles: "news is a cold dish"
    7. ee2100
      ee2100 17 November 2020 19: 00
      +2
      I heard it about revenge laughing
      My principle is that the news is only hot!
    8. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 17 November 2020 19: 04
      +4
      News is always biased by the aggregator submitting them.
    9. ee2100
      ee2100 17 November 2020 19: 13
      +1
      In mainstream media, yes. And anyone can post on Instagram, this is his plus.
      And yesterday's news is already history
    10. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 17 November 2020 19: 23
      +3
      You see, what is the matter, I can call a lot of places and ask what is actually going on. First-hand.
    11. ee2100
      ee2100 17 November 2020 19: 26
      +2
      Yes, this is a pretty effective method. Call several at once to get an average view of information
    12. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 17 November 2020 19: 34
      +3
      That is, do you agree that the opinion of a pensioner from Brest and a trucker from Polotsk are different opinions, by no means reflecting the "intensity of passions" included in the "hot news" section?
    13. ee2100
      ee2100 17 November 2020 19: 38
      +1
      It is true, but we are now talking about the evaluation of news, and not about the news that "so many have come out to the square," period.
      I'll go for a walk. Hello St. Petersburg. I'm going at the end of the month.
    14. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 17 November 2020 19: 45
      +4
      Hello St. Petersburg. I'm going at the end of the month.
      Wellcome! But as always!
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 17 November 2020 17: 26
    +3
    Michael! hi
    Here is straight to your, with a colleague, discus: last Saturday Datsik was released on parole ...
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 17 November 2020 17: 30
    +4
    It is necessary for the most part to be smarter, more educated, more energetic, hardworking, bolder than others, so that in any corner of the country anyone looking at a Russian can say: “Here is Russian, he knows and can do more than I do, so he lives better, than I am and therefore I have to be like him, I have to learn from him to be like him. "
    This is how the local population from Siberia and Central Asia, the Caucasus and other places greeted our ancestors, and this is how this country was created.

    I would not be so categorical.
    1. Trilobite Master
      Trilobite Master 17 November 2020 18: 02
      +1
      Quote: 3x3zsave
      I would not be so categorical.

      Yes, I, it seems, am not categorical ... Maybe a little carried away by the artistic word ... smile
      And Datsik ... I think not for long. This is a waste material, by and large no one needs it and is not interesting. He will try to attract attention to himself and again he will learn something and sit down.
      1. depressant
        depressant 17 November 2020 21: 58
        +3
        Colleagues, just type in "what is happening there and there" into the "search" line of your browser and you get a whole bunch of messages with different opinions. You can drive in "video". They will show and tell everything.
  • Kwas
    Kwas 18 November 2020 00: 06
    +2
    To each, probably, of us, people of our nationality seem better than others, who are both stupid and different in appearance, and believe the devil knows what, and their customs are kind of wild, and even the hair grows between the fingers. In our time of transition, pure internationalists, that is, those who do not look at the nationality of people, unfortunately, are extremely few. And in general, given the current diversity of the mentality of different nationalities, this is correct. It is difficult for people to understand others, and a natural reaction prompts people, other things being equal, to give preference to consanguineous, co-religionists, compatriots. It's not even nationalism. Nationalism begins when people begin to be judged primarily by their nationality and not by their human qualities.
    But the difference between the Nazis and all other people is that other peoples, inferior from their point of view, can be mercilessly destroyed. In fact, they are not considered human and therefore are not subject to any human rights. By asking a person whether it is permissible to kill only on the basis of nationality or race, you can immediately determine whether he is a Nazi or not. And by virtue of the proportionality of the punishment, such people must be killed themselves, in spite of any cries of "human rights defenders".
  • iouris
    iouris 16 November 2020 18: 06
    +1
    Quote: "... owned Mingrelia until 1803, when Prince Grigory Dadiani took citizenship of Russia as a vassal ruler. In 1867, Prince Nikolai Dadiani finally ceded his rights to Mingrelia to Russia, and received the title of lordship and the surname of Prince Mingrelsky for himself and the eldest of his descendants; his brother Andrei received the surname of Prince Dadiani-Mingrelsky; the younger descendants of Prince Nicholas of Mingrelsky and all descendants of Prince Andrey Dadiani-Mingrelsky retain the surname of princes Dadiani, which is also worn by many other branches of this clan. " End of quote.
  • Phil77
    Phil77 16 November 2020 20: 06
    +4
    Quote: Phil77
    This truth is a little later!

    But they didn't wear them?
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 16 November 2020 21: 14
    +5
    Meanwhile, I somehow got carried away, and once again forgot to thank for the work ...
    Thank you, Valery !!!
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 17 November 2020 08: 30
    +2
    "Turkey is a sick man of Europe" but he was sick for a long time: how he "got sick" near Vera and before 1918.
    I wish I lived so much
  • vladcub
    vladcub 17 November 2020 15: 55
    +4
    Quote: lexus
    Duc and Russians are Vyatichi, Krivichi, Dregovichi, Northerners and others. There would be a man HUMAN. The rest is secondary. Only obscurantists do not understand.

    I agree here, but not everyone thinks so, and there are at least 5 of those on the site that equate a Jew and Satan
  • Petrik66
    Petrik66 24 November 2020 09: 53
    0
    The trouble is, cats appeared on the site, like on instagram and YouTube, it will not be said by night))))