The first "Karakurt" with ZRPK "Pantsir-M" will be transferred to the fleet at the end of November

State tests of the small missile ship "Odintsovo" of project 22800 "Karakurt" have been successfully completed, all the characteristics laid down have been confirmed. This was reported by the press service of the Russian Navy.

The first MRK equipped with a naval version of the Pantsir-M air defense missile system will be accepted into the Russian fleet in the end of November. The ship will be part of the 1st Guards Division of the 36th Red Banner Order of Nakhimov, XNUMXst Class, of the missile boat brigade, which is located at the naval base in Baltiysk.

State tests of RTOs of project 22800 "Odintsovo" have been successfully completed. Odintsovo is the first surface ship equipped with Pantsir-M air defense missile systems. The tests of the sea version of the complex have been completed. All the characteristics laid down in the design of the spacecraft were confirmed during sea and state tests of the Odintsovo MRK. At the end of November, a ceremony will be held for the admission of the Odintsovo MRK to the Navy, and the Andreevsky flag will be raised on it

- said the commander-in-chief of the Russian Navy, Admiral Nikolai Evmenov.

MRK "Odintsovo" (laid down as "Shkval") is the third in the series and the second serial ship of Project 22800 Karakurt, built at the Pella shipyard in the interests of the Russian Navy. At the same time, "Odintsovo" is the first serial "Karakurt", on which the Pantsir-M anti-aircraft missile-gun complex (ZRPK) is installed. On the head MRK "Mytishchi" and the first serial "Sovetsk" air defense missile system "Pantsir-M" was not installed, they use 30-mm artillery mounts AK-630.

RTOs of this project have a length of 67 meters, a width of 11 meters and a draft of 4 meters. Displacement - about 800 tons, cruising range - up to 2500 miles, autonomy - 15 days. The main armament - one PU UKSK (universal ship complex) 3S14 RK for 8 KR "Caliber", one 76-mm gun mount AK-176MA, ZRPK Pantsir-M, two 14.5-mm or 12,7-mm machine gun MTPU.

Comments

[LiSiCyn]

Quote: Dead Day

"the window cut through" by Peter, over time "dragged on" like that ..

Now, some Comrades will laugh at me, but still ... If we turn to the theory of "Cyclic time", then we are now in the second half of the 30s. Window expansion early 40s.

Quote: Dead Day

the concept is changing, we are going on the defensive.

Going to the Great War.

Quote: Dead Day

small MRK

Provided that you have to shoot "perhaps" from the wall ... And then lose, why a more expensive ship ... It's me, about the Baltic.

[cat Rusich]

Quote: LiSiCyn

Provided that you have to shoot "perhaps" from the wall ... And then lose, why a more expensive ship ... It's me, about the Baltic.

Then "Caliber-K"

[Svetlana]

You don't need arguments. You need a hype, but instead of him, yes, you silently get into a lobby.

[Svetlana]

And this is exactly what I mentioned and said above: Provocations do not need arguments.

[venik]

Quote: Svetlana

You don't need arguments. You need a hype, but instead of him, yes, you silently get into a lobby.

=========
For example, I also "minus" Grandfather Old, because I don't like such a comment ... But to be rude then why? If the mind is not enough to answer competently and in a civilized manner, then it is better to remain silent!
Therefore, accept from me "---" as they say "from the bottom of my heart" (I could have put 10 "-")!

[-Dmitry-]

Well, how would it be enough for the eyes in the Baltic, taking into account, of course, that it is armed with calibers. Considering possible adversaries in the Baltic, the capabilities of RTOs are quite enough. Considering the doctrine of the Russian Navy, this is quite enough. And for the demonstration of the flag, the Baltic is not very suitable - for this, the Mediterranean Sea, the Pacific and Atlantic oceans are more suitable. A smaller ship can sink much more expensive ships. Therefore, the cons for you.

[NEXUS]

Quote: -Dmitry-

Well, how would it be enough for the eyes in the Baltic, taking into account, of course, that it is armed with calibers.

On Batik, as well as in the Black Sea, it is normal to have corvettes, moreover, with anti-aircraft defense and air defense ... And a dozen frigates. Then it will be behind the eyes ... and the Karakurt are coastal. In the 5th ball storm they chatter like excrement in their pants ... And to huddle up to the wall is more expensive for yourself, since in this case, the enemy will take the vacated water area.

[Volder]

Quote: NEXUS

Karakurt are coastal watermen. Their 5 ball storm chatters like excrement in his pants.

For the near sea zone - just right! And by the way, 5-point storms on the Black and Baltic Seas are very rare.

[Alexander Vorontsov]

I thought that I had never asked a question regarding the frequency of the waves in the Black Sea by points. I googled and here it is ...

In September, it begins to worry, and in winter it storms so much that it bends the pillars and breaks the concrete piers - they have to be repaired every holiday season. In the open sea, winter waves reach a height of 6-7 m, and sometimes even more, hiding small and medium-sized craft up to the masts, and then tossing them up so that propellers are exposed and madly buzzing in the air.

And further

In the winter of 1969, a multi-day nine-point storm hit Yalta. The waves broke the pier and walked freely along the main pier.

I'm starting to worry about the Black Sea fleet))

[Volder]

Quote: Alexander Vorontsov

I thought that I had never asked a question regarding the frequency of the waves in the Black Sea by points.

So ask yourself, what's the problem?

In September, it begins to worry, and in winter it storms so much that it bends the pillars and breaks the concrete piers - they have to be repaired before each holiday season.

These are isolated cases. 2 days a year.

In the open sea, winter waves reach heights of 6-7 m, and sometimes even more

The Black Sea is NOT the open sea. The key word is "sometimes", i.e. it means rarely.

In the winter of 1969, a multi-day nine-point storm hit Yalta. The waves broke the pier and walked freely along the main pier.

50 years ago, Karl! In any case, the ships are in the bays, and the bays are protected from big waves. Let me remind you that our warships are shooting through the entire Black Sea with Caliber missiles, even while on the pier. By the way, RTOs are designed so that they can operate at sea with a 5-point excitement, not to mention larger ships.

[alexmach]

Well, how would it be enough for the eyes in the Baltic, taking into account, of course, that it is armed with calibers. Considering possible opponents in the Baltic, the capabilities of RTOs are quite enough

Well, yes, especially the Swedes with their new submarines ... And the Germans with the old ...

[paco.soto]

Grandfather
Today, 17: 04
NEW

-14
minus players, at least they threw arguments ... ©
Laughing, advice to the old man from the old man: I read this comment in the butcher's shop, while I got home, the minuses increased. Dedkastary, if you want no minuses - sign up for "Putin's troops" and you will be happy here. Photos from the shop

[seregin-s1]

And how to understand you if you don't say anything !?

[seregin-s1]

First of all, nonsense about defense! Such RTOs are likely to be filled with anti-ship missiles rather than calibers. What is on the ground is easier to destroy with tactical surface-to-surface missiles, or simply paratroopers. With a dozen RTOs, we don't have 80 NKs, and NATO doesn't have more, which is quite satisfying for us in the Baltic. Air defense will be provided by coastal forces, and it's just ridiculous to talk about NATO submarine forces.

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: seregin-s1

Such RTOs are likely to be filled with anti-ship missiles rather than calibers.

These ships are the children of the INF Treaty. They were generally created specifically to be filled with Calibers. This is a long-range missile launcher with additional accompanying capabilities.
There is just nothing stopping the anti-ship missiles from being put on the shore. However, now Caliber too. So the meaning of such ships has now become generally incomprehensible. But what is already there, that is, do not throw it away.

[CommanderDIVA]

For 800 tons of displacement, the MRK has a fairly powerful range of weapons, a "toothy" ship, in my opinion, no one has analogues with the possibility of launching a CD from such a platform, just for the Baltic, Caspian and Black Sea regions

[Borik]

Well, why only for the Baltic and the Black Sea, but also in the North and the Pacific Ocean, they will also be useful.

[faiver]

in the North and the Pacific Ocean, they will also be useful.

- both here and there we need larger ships, there is nothing to do there ...

[Borik]

faiver (Andrew)
Today, 17: 39

+1
in the North and the Pacific Ocean, they will also be useful.

- both here and there we need larger ships, there is nothing to do there ...

Project 1241 is almost 300 tons lighter than Karakurt, and there are more than a dozen of them at the Pacific Fleet. There is also the project 1234 "Gadfly" in 700 tons and also serve in the Pacific Fleet. But all of them are already from 20 to 30 years old. So Karakurt will be needed at the Pacific Fleet.

[faiver]

Nothing that the purpose of the ships is different?

[Borik]

faiver (Andrew)
Today, 20: 11

0
Nothing that the purpose of the ships is different?

Why are these ship assignments different?
All three are armed with anti-ship missiles. Karakurt "Caliber"
"Lightning" project 1241 - P-20- "Termites" and P-270 "Mosquitoes"
"Gadflies" -project 1234 - P-20- "Termites" or P-120 "Malachites"
At the Pacific Fleet "Ovody" began to re-equip on the X-35. One of the project 1234 "Smerch" has already received 4x4 modular X-35 units.

[faiver]

Why are these ship assignments different?

- because our calibers are no longer anti-ship missiles, but a long-range cruise missile ...

[LiSiCyn]

To the North, in the short term, no. In the Far East, I don't know for sure. There, like the "Gadfly" modernize, under the X-35. I don't know about Lightning.

Quote: LiSiCyn

If we turn to the theory of "Cyclic time",

We are preparing for the defense. A strong fleet is primarily the Northern Fleet and the Pacific Fleet. The Northern Sea Route will remain the only area where we will be able to "operate" more, less calmly.

Quote: CommanderDIVA

just for the Baltic, Caspian and Black Sea

Yes, I completely agree.

[Grandfather]

Quote: CommanderDIVA

"toothy" ship, in my opinion, no one has analogues with the possibility of launching a CD from such a platform, just for the Baltic, Caspian and Black Sea regions

as I say, especially if the "vigorous head", but otherwise, pshyk! argue otherwise.

[antivirus]

and 800 tons of displacement MRK is a fairly powerful range of weapons, a "toothy" ship, in my opinion, analogs with

- again not an aircraft carrier, Shoigu is to blame for everything ...

[venik]

Quote: CommanderDIVA

For 800 tons of displacement, the MRK has a fairly powerful range of weapons, a "toothy" ship, in my opinion, no one has analogues with the possibility of launching a CD from such a platform, just for the Baltic, Caspian and Black Sea regions

========
Why only for the Baltic, the Caspian and the Black Sea? At the Pacific Fleet, such "kids" will also not be superfluous (given the good seaworthiness and features of the theater) ...
And in general - given the geographical features of the country, Russia cannot do without a "mosquito" fleet! The main thing is that there are no "distortions": you must not get too carried away by the "mosquito" fleet, forgetting about the distant sea and ocean zones! In the same way, one should not get carried away with building ships of the 1st and 2nd ranks to the detriment of the "mosquito" fleet! Need here "pliportia"!!!

[x.andvlad]

Tell me, who knows why they paint the stern with black?

[Dart2027]

There are exhaust pipes from diesels, so if you don't paint it black, there will be black stains.

[Mountain shooter]

Quote: Dart2027

There are exhaust pipes from diesel engines, so if you don't paint it black, there will be black stains

Not only. Even with optical detection, the silhouette breaks ... A kind of camouflage. Often this color was found on WWII ships.

[Grandfather]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

Often this color was found on WWII ships.

there the Germans had a "broken line".

[Dart2027]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

Often this color was found on WWII ships.

Only on small ones, which have the exhaust at the bottom.

[venik]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

Even with optical detection, the silhouette breaks ... A kind of camouflage. Often this color was found on WWII ships.

=======
Outstripped! "They took it off the tongue!"
By the way, here's an example that I wanted to give: The Germans during the war had large ships operating in the northern latitudes (in low light conditions)
German heavy cruiser "Prince Eugen" in a curious camouflage pattern:

And this is the battleship "Bisamrk" (coloring - the same):

The bow and stern are painted black, on the border - "fake breakers" are drawn in white, and even in the middle of the body there are two black and white stripes. As a result, in low light conditions, the illusion may well arise that there is not one large ship in front of you, but 2-3 small and high-speed ones, and it is not immediately clear in which direction they are moving !!

[Rzzz]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

Often this color was found on WWII ships

A little earlier. The distorting camouflage was invented by the British in the middle of WWI, during the interwar period all countries widely experimented on it, and by the time of WWII it began to fade when it became clear that it did not really help from radars and sonars.
Now it is more of a camouflage of muddy stern.

[petrol cutter]

I confirm. The exhaust goes in the side / waterline area.
Then they paint the aft midship in black.

[petrol cutter]

Although ... I thought, suddenly. Not always and not everywhere ...
On the A40, all exhaust is directed to the side. But, according to the painting map, they are not painted black. They have a nice blue side.
So that's another question. Why do they paint so ...
I'll have to ask.

[x.andvlad]

Here's a little bit. Now it looks like the truth ...

[ZEMCH]

Quote: x.andvlad

Tell me, who knows why they paint the stern with black?

Exhaust from diesels into the water along the sides, if not black, then there will be dirty brown spots

[Ros 56]

That will be joy for the Banderlog.

[Grandfather]

Quote: Ros 56

That will be joy for the Banderlog.

Are you talking about Poles or Norwegians with Swedes?

[faiver]

Are you talking about Poles or Norwegians with Swedes?

- not very important ...

[Grandfather]

Quote: faiver

Are you talking about Poles or Norwegians with Swedes?

- not very important ...

and I don't care ...

[Ros 56]

Quite an old man, his brain has dried up, since he confused Banderlog with Lyakhs and Scandinavians.

[petrol cutter]

Wonderful.
And where is our head "Storm"? Or what was he called then Kozelsk or what ?! I already lost the thread in the names / renames to be honest. For a couple of years, I have already forgotten the serial number. Moreover, "Pella" has its own numbers, we have ours.

[Grandfather]

Quote: Petrol cutter

And where is our head "Storm"?

Peter, said: "There will be a city founded ..". at the pawnshop. here are the "storms" and "leaders" there.

[Mountain shooter]

So the air defense "Karakurt" has increased. The cannons were obviously insufficient. Toothy boat. A dozen of these will peck at anyone ...

[Grandfather]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

So the air defense "Karakurt" has increased.

ooooooo ...

[Grandfather]

shkolota populated VO or what? well, very far people from reality, or are they agents? Who are they ? after all, clearly not adequate comments.

[petrol cutter]

"Peter, said:" There will be a city founded ... "at the pawnshop. Here are the" storms "and" leaders "there."
In my opinion, this is not an adequate comment.
Muzchina, who are you? I would like to ask a question ...
What exactly did you undertake / build / build ...
What are the successes? Let us know the dark ones at last. Enlighten our souls wandering in ignorance ...

[Cyril G ...]

And what will these heroes do on Karrakurt when they meet the Polish submarine?

[petrol cutter]

The Polish submarine will be met by "Varshavyanka" for example.
What do you think about this?
Although, does Poland have a lot of PL? Do you have a big / trivial question?

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: Petrol cutter

What do you think about this?

We have 1 submarine in the Baltic, but only the Poles have five, and there are also German submarines and Swedish ones.
Our modern RTOs performed by the New Russia admirals - natural-born enemies of the people, this is some kind of trash and a mockery of common sense. In our BMZ, soon all PLCs will die out, and the expensive Karrakurt in front of an underwater threat is powerless from a word at all ...

Zzzy .. I'm happy with the minuses from the urya-patriots

[Disant]

to shy away with a rocket-torpedo from the launcher caliber, no?

[Cyril G ...]

Sadness. There is no GUS on Carracourt at all. That model ZS-14 which stands on Karrakurt can not shoot PLUR from the word at all. Again.

[Disant]

There is no GUS on Carrakurt at all

Target designation will be received from another ship or from aviation when a preemptive strike is made. Yes, it is more difficult, but it is possible - as I understand it. correct.
When repelling an attack, the submarine will give itself away

That model ZS-14 which stands on Karrakurt can not shoot PLUR from the word at all. Again

so the launcher is called - Universal (Uksk). Why can't that?

[Cyril G ...]

When repelling an attack, the submarine will give itself away

The submarine strike will be covert until it hits. And it is not even known where the torpedoes actually came from.

Why can't that?

In fact, the models are different. And most importantly, SU 21631 does not support either PLURs or Onyx, for example

[Disant]

The submarine strike will be covert until it hits. And it is not even known where the torpedoes actually came from.

Do you want to say that there is no acoustic post on the 22800 Karakurt project to determine the range and bearing of a torpedo launch?
what is SU pr.21631?

[Cyril G ...]

Once again - there are no hydroacoustic stations there at all.
SU - in this context, the control system of the complex Caliber. It is not universal. There are modifications that are very expensive to use - 3M14, 3M54, 91R, 3M55. There is a significantly cheaper option providing only 3M14 and 3M54. This is exactly what stands on Buyany and Karrakurt and pr.11356 and Dagestan.

[alexmach]

There are modifications that are very expensive to use - 3M14, 3M54, 91R, 3M55. There is a significantly cheaper option providing only 3M14 and 3M54.

Which in itself is very, very strange. Especially considering the years of creation of the complex.

[Cyril G ...]

Well, as it is, for the first time on this topic a document was posted on the database in 2015

[Disant]

karakurt will work in the coastal zone, near the bases.
he acts as a carrier.
for a rocket-torpedo, as I understand it, the time from detection to approach is very critical - they have a small capture radius, so the karakurt are on duty at the exit from the bases and fire at external target designation, receiving, for example, a signal from buoys or underwater tracking systems, which is or will be deployed. Yes, and yet, there is a place for the towed GUS. Probably, you can put it better. The perspective should be

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: Disant

in the coastal zone, near the bases.

So it is here that the enemy will wait for them.
For example, this

Or this

Yes, and yet, there is a place for a towed GUS.

And once again - there is no GAS on avenue 22800, from the word in general.

[Bear]

Excuse me, generously, I'm certainly not an expert, but what prevents 22160 from receiving target designation on submarines from 22160, in my opinion such exercises have already been conducted?

[alexmach]

Excuse me, generously, I'm certainly not an expert, but what prevents 22160 from receiving target designation by submarine from 22160

Specifically in the Baltic, this is hindered by the presence of 22160s there,
And besides, the lack of serious means of detecting submarines on 22160. There is a GAS, but its characteristics do not reach the anti-submarine. There are rumors about the container version of the BUGAS "Minotaur", it seems, but nobody has seen it before. Not accepted for service.

And most importantly, what is the expediency of this venture? If the ship carries the means of detecting submarines, then the means of destruction should be located in the same place.

in my opinion such exercises have already been conducted

Which I personally doubt very much ... but yes, some such messages slipped somewhere a couple of years ago. Not in terms of teachings, but either in terms of projectors, or in terms of experts' thoughts.

[Cyril G ...]

The fact that there is no adequate GAS on it ...

[petrol cutter]

"Sadness. GUS on Karrakurt is not from the word at all. That model ZS-14 which stands on Karrakurt to shoot PLUR cannot from the word at all. Again."
So the RTO is not obliged to fight the submarine. He does not exist for this at all.
On the topic, you can't please the Lord ...
Then, AK 630 does not suit you (whine all the way). Then .. the five "Shell M" is small for you ....
In addition, Karakurt is written with one R.
Therefore, there is a Ministry of Defense. And let's, each of us will do our own thing. but

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: Petrol cutter

Therefore, there is a Ministry of Defense. And let's, each of us will do our own thing.

I am retired - I can afford to kick the MO for uniform idiocy.

So the RTO is not obliged to fight the submarine. He does not exist for this at all.

At least it must be able to repel an attack by a submarine in self-defense. Or do you have PLCs in the required quantity to provide outlets to the sea of ​​RTOs? A RTO exists in order to go to sea, otherwise why all this profanity.
So that's it. We do not have modern PLCs IN THE NECESSARY QUANTITY, from the word in general. There are only 10 of them for 4 fleets, conditionally. 4 ships on trials of them. Madhouse !!!
It was possible initially to do with the Bastion coastal missile system,
having registered there, if necessary, the possibility of clinging to him Caliber. But maybe they did it.

[petrol cutter]

You communicate miracles.
I am not a warmore, but I fell into despondency ...
How should an MRK imprisoned get out of the base and deliver a missile strike at the enemy, must he also fight the submarine ?!
Roughly speaking, this is to require the properties of a Sea Hunter from a torpedo boat.
You can also add a minesweeper. Why not?

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: Petrol cutter

Roughly speaking, this is to require the properties of a Sea Hunter from a torpedo boat.

Do you think during WWII not a single TKA submarine was sunk? TKA, in principle, normally had 6-12 GB at that time. So for such large ships as Karrakurt, under 1000 tons, multifunctionality is a vital necessity.

How should an MRK imprisoned get out of the base and deliver a missile strike at the enemy, must he also fight the submarine ?!

Once again, Carracourt is a seaworthy ship, not a river barge. A priori, MRKs were initially considered as a tracking ship for the enemy's KUG in readiness to immediately use weapons. The task of making the transition by sea from point S. (Sevastopol) to point T. (Tartus) is also more than relevant, in readiness for the immediate application of the anti-ship missile system or the Kyrgyz Republic. Or, for example, to be on duty in the pouring zone and at the Black Sea Fleet, and at the Pacific Fleet and at the Baltic Fleet.

[Bear]

Excuse me, generously, I'm certainly not an expert, but what prevents 22160 from receiving target designation on submarines from 22160, in my opinion such exercises have already been conducted?

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: Cyril G ...

And what will these heroes do on Karrakurt when they meet the Polish submarine?

Or you yourself do not know that the main meaning of this boat is the launch of Calibers.
Not anti-ship missiles, not PLUR, but long-range surface-to-surface missiles, optionally with a nuclear warhead. To threaten not only a Swede, but also a German, a Brit, and even an Italian ...
True, while these ships were being built, the INF Treaty died, and the "cunning plan" also died with them.

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: Jacket in stock

that the main meaning of this boat is the launch of Calibers.

So this is not a river barge that hides along the tributaries. This is a completely seaworthy ship. In the design of which they hammered a bolt on PLO issues. Moreover, it is unreasonable !!!

[alexmach]

Or you yourself do not know that the main meaning of this boat is the launch of Calibers

No, no. This is what they said about "Buyany". "Karakurt" has more sense. Initially, they said that they were building them "instead" of the frigates hanging in the building, which in itself is a very, very strange statement. Then they recovered that this is a full-fledged replacement for RTOs, which is generally quite true. They have good seaworthiness and more serious radio electronic weapons, so some kind of air defense has appeared. And once they showed the layout of the already universal corvette on the base of the "fat Karakurt".

[Cyril G ...]

In fact, today there is everything for a universal corvette
- ZS-14
- AK-176MA
- ZRPK Pantsyr-M or Redoubt
- Duet
- Package-NK
From RES
- Monolith
- Positive
- Minotaur
- Platinum-M
- GEM based on or Kolomna diesel engines or Stars.
It remains to collect the cubes in the ship

[alexmach]

I wonder what this Pantsir-M has with a radar. Recently, the land-based millimeter radar has been criticized as of little use for naval service.

[Cyril G ...]

But hell knows.

[koramax81]

Can you please tell me why the sides of ships of this class are painted half gray and half black?

[huntsman650]

The exhaust on the engine is black.

[ZEMCH]

Above answered about the sides

[ficus2003]

Quote: CommanderDIVA

For 800 tons of displacement, the MRK has a fairly powerful range of weapons, a "toothy" ship, in my opinion, no one has analogues with the possibility of launching a CD from such a platform, just for the Baltic, Caspian and Black Sea regions

Only the shells do not inspire confidence, wow, they cope too badly with drones, for the third world countries this will do, but Russia needs something more effective.

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: ficus2003

uh too bad they handle drones

How bad is it? Nothing that in Libya, one Pantsyr-S was reliably hit, released at least 10 years ago, another one was captured and there are still videos of 5-6 ZRPK, extremely muddy by the way, of which a maximum of 2 more likely affected Pantsyr can be assumed. The Turks lost at least 18 Bayraktar in Libya, for certain. See Aviation Security Network. Another 3 Bayraktar and 2 Anki Turks lost in Idlib.
At the Syrians in Idlib, a pair of Armor was damaged by artillery fire, which were restored.

[Elturisto]

Enough to drive empty, praising the Rostec shit.

[venik]

Quote: ficus2003

Only the shells do not inspire confidence, wow, they cope too badly with drones, for the third world countries this will do, but Russia needs something more effective.

========
And you naively think that ships at sea will attack low-speed handicraft mini-drones and quadcopters ???
God what are you naive!!!
PS By the way, with missiles (including small-sized RS from "Grad") and even with "Tomahawks" "Armor" cope very well! But for small slow-moving, but highly maneuverable targets against the background of the earth are often "smeared" .... Although this problem seems to have already been solved.

[Elturisto]

Only a complete idiot will put this tomb on the ships. Why this shed, a large mass requiring appropriate drives and reinforcements. What prevents the installation of the chilled TOP and AK-630?

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: ElTuristo

a down and out cretin will put this tomb on the ships.

Nerds and put ...

What prevents the installation of a chilled TOP

There, missiles are exactly twice as expensive as Pantsyr's missiles. Summary - We need a light guided missile launcher combined with an SUV, firing cheap missiles, but without guns.

Enough to drive empty, praising the Rostec shit.

Empty and fenya are not in my line. I have given you the facts.

[alexmach]

There missiles are exactly twice as expensive as Pantsyr's missiles

Does it matter at the total cost of the ship? The budget will not pull 16 additional Torov missiles?

Summary - We need a light guided missile launcher combined with an SUV, firing cheap missiles, but without guns.

Still, in my opinion, the vertical all-aspect PU is much more functional.

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: alexmach

in my opinion the vertical all-aspect PU is much more functional.

Well, what side then? Compare Torovskaya SAM and Pantsyr. Well, plus-mine is the same. And here and there RKTU. But Thor's rocket is twice as expensive.

At the total cost of the ship, does it matter?

It has undoubtedly if you start thinking about combat training, the price of ammunition, etc. etc.

[alexmach]

It has undoubtedly if you start thinking about combat training, the price of ammunition, etc. etc.

The "partners" and the Chinese in the short-range defense segment generally have RIM 116 with IR seeker. In theory, it should be even more expensive. Of course there is a question of budgets and performance characteristics.

[Cyril G ...]

More expensive, fact. Moreover, they were not delighted with her and began to think about the combined SU.
Radio correction + IKGSN.
The result is an explosive rise in prices.

Prices for SAM and RVV for comparison
9M335 - about 45-50 thousand cu
9M331 - about 100 thousand cu

For comparison
RVV AiM-9 - 490 thousand dollars. (As you can imagine, RiM-116 will not cost much less, and maybe more expensive in the second version of the complex)

[petrol cutter]

It must be assumed that you are not a designer.
As far as I understand, you have developed more than a dozen projects and transferred them to production.
Drives ... Reinforcements ...
This is to redesign the entire superstructure aft amidships.
What for?
Just because you thought so ...

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: Petrol cutter

You have developed more than a dozen projects and transferred them to production.

No, it's just that I understand naval weapons, and I know how it should be ...

[Elturisto]

who is the designer - Chemezov, Manturov, Medvedev or Shoigu? Tell me more soon ... You? How much this shit weighs from KBP-7-10 tons. Under it you need to reserve additional power for electricity and reinforcements in the building and this is a change in the project. ..

[venik]

Quote: ElTuristo

Only a complete idiot will put this tomb on the ships. Why this shed, a large mass requiring appropriate drives and reinforcements. What prevents the installation of the chilled TOP and AK-630?

========
And naively, you think that the "overwhelmed" TOP + AK-630 in total will weigh LESS ???
Well then - try to justify (preferably with numbers)!

[Elturisto]

What is there to justify for the cells of the Thor does not need a rotary mechanism + the absence of a funnel on the installation.AK-630 is a standard solution ...

[ficus2003]

Quote: Cyril G ...

Quote: ficus2003

uh too bad they handle drones

How bad is it?

When the shell drones attacked the Russian airbase for the first time, they did not cope well with them and even managed to inflict insignificant damage, the Ministry of Defense made a conclusion and immediately sent tor-m2 there, which is now shooting down all small drones. The shells are being modernized - they should become effective against drones, they are developing a special short-range and cheap missile for this, plus afar - in theory, it should be enough. It will be called Pantsir-SM, it should be ready in 2021, wait and see.
Well, logically, all this was not included in the Pantsir-M that is already on the ship, and it is unknown whether the Pantsir-SM will spoil it.

[venik]

Quote: ficus2003

The Ministry of Defense made a conclusion and immediately sent the tor-m2 there, and it is now shooting down all the small drones.

=======
Not all! "Shells" - also shoot down! Only the missile consumption for very small and slow-moving drones is too high for them! 2-3 and even 4 missiles are spent! But for the rest of the goals they work just fine! By the way, that drone raid was far from the first! Before that, the "Armor" worked very well even for small drones with 10 suspended bombs! But when the "barmaley" came up with the idea (or "sworn friends suggested?) To use even smaller devices with only 2 bombs and a large swarm - then" Armor "and" lohanulis "- some were shot down, but they missed several pieces (with the ensuing consequences). .....
--------

Quote: ficus2003

The shells are being modernized - they should become effective against drones, they are developing a special short-range and cheap missile for this, plus afar - in theory it should be enough. Will be called Pantsir-SM

=======
Alas, Vitaly cannot answer the question of whether the problem of small low-speed targets has been solved in the C / C1 / C2 models or only for the CM and C1M (the latter is the export version of the CM). And I myself cannot yet find an answer to this question !
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Quote: ficus2003

Well, logically, all this was not included in the Pantsir-M that is already on the ship, and it is unknown whether the Pantsir-SM will spoil it.

========
And here you are, my friend, and you are mistaken! Look closely at the guidance station near Pantsir-SM and Pantsir-M:

As you can see, both stations are identical (at least externally) and are very different from the "Helmet" guidance station:

By the way, it looks like the new station is not AFAR like "Helmet", but the good old PFAR "!
Here, somewhere like that!

[Elturisto]

By that time, the carapace has been cut for decades. Only a complete idiot will put a bicaliber missile of this length on a mobile complex.

[alexmach]

M ... And with the long, what's wrong?

[garri-lin]

Bicaliber big length, what don't you like? What is the alternative?

[Interlocutor]

At the same time, the carapace has been cut for decades.

Why cut ...

[TatarinSSSR]

Quote: LiSiCyn

Provided that you have to shoot "possibly" from the wall ...

I'm afraid that almost the entire surface fleet of the Russian Federation will have to shoot from the wall if something happens ... Well, 80 percent for sure.

[Kostya Lavinyukov]

Can someone explain what kind of device this ship has between the superstructure with mines and the Shell. (It looks like some kind of hatch)

[ficus2003]

Quote: venik

And you naively think that ships at sea will attack low-speed handicraft mini-drones and quadcopters ??? belay
God, you are so naive !!! request
PS By the way, with missiles (including small-sized RS from "Grad") and even with "Tomahawks" "Armor" cope very well! But for small, low-speed, but highly maneuverable targets against the background of the earth - yes, they often "smear" .... Although this problem seems to have already been solved.

If the ship is relatively close to the coast, it can be attacked from anything, in war as in war, and if electronic warfare cannot neutralize them, I hope that epaulettes will fly in the Ministry of Defense. Although in Armenia, it seems, no one was fired due to the fact that they ignored the threat from small-sized kamikaze drones. Apparently when they were warned about this, they also answered: "You naively think that our troops in the vastness of Karabakh will attack low-speed handicraft mini-drones and quadcopters" ??


Tomahawks that got to do with? This is completely different.

[venik]

I'll start from the end:

Quote: ficus2003

Tomahawks that got to do with? This is completely different.

========
Yes, despite the fact that the "Tomahawks" exist in the version of the anti-ship missile system (did not know?). This is the first thing. Second, in terms of its performance characteristics (speed, maneuverability) and EPR "Tomogavki" are very close to the widespread anti-ship missile "Harpoon" (as well as a number of other foreign anti-ship missiles). This means that a system that is capable of effectively working on "Tomogavks" will also work effectively on "Harpoons".
-------

Quote: ficus2003

Although in Armenia, it seems, no one was fired due to the fact that they ignored the threat from small-sized kamikaze drones.

========
If the losses of the Armenian side from drones (in general) and kamikaze drones "(in particular), then there is not such a joyful picture: in total, more than 30 units of various equipment were destroyed with the help of drones (data from the Azerbaijani side), while more than 20 drones (all types). By the way, the Israeli drone "Harop" costs no less - approx. $ 10 million (just a minute!). This is the first!
Second, there is no and never has been a continuous radar field in Karabakh! Actually, it is extremely difficult to create it there because of the difficult terrain. Therefore, Azerbaijanis tried to use drones where there is such a field did not have! Otherwise, they simply turned out to be ineffective! This is two.
And finally, the use of drones in mountainous areas is one thing, but in the "clear sea" (where it is visible from tens of miles away) is completely different.
Is it enough?

[voronin]

We are waiting for replenishment In fact, this is the lead ship - because of the Shell.

[huntsman650]

I hope there is a microclimate in AP. On the Northern Fleet in winter, the high part burns out in frosts. If the heating of the AP is not turned on.

[skipper83]

It looks like a technological hatch for access to the MCO, like a mouth guard like in a civilian fleet. In order to lower the bulk cargoes into the bowels of the ship with a crane. But this is purely my version no more.

[VLADIMIR VLADIVOSTOK]

And they will go to the Black Sea puddle! In Moscow, deputies and part of the ministers cover their ass! Farewell to the rest of Russia! The same is about the Northern Fleet! Right now, foaming at the mouth, they will prove about the Western strategic direction and the restless southern borders! About NATO countries! The United States and Japan, not to mention China, do not care! At our border with China, the BMP-1 is covering the approaches! Two shock surface ships! Cruiser and frigate! The latter without an air defense system as such! And not of course if you give everything to China to the Urals then yes! Fine ! How long will they cover their ass in Moscow? !!! There that in Moscow they are afraid that Turkey or Poland will attack, but can Ukraine? Aegis systems and borders will be talked about now! Iskander is enough for them!

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: VLADIMIR VLADIVOSTOK

cover the approaches! Two shock surface ships! Cruiser and frigate! The latter without an air defense system as such!

So it seems like recently it was about the construction of a series of corvettes for the Pacific Ocean. Don't you know?
And then there will be different ships more serious than these gunboats. And with better air defense, and with some kind of PLO.