Military Review

Following the Tu-160 - Mi-14?

189
So, having burned himself on the PAK FA and having received a fighter of an indistinct generation and the same characteristics at an insane price, with its analogue in the form of the PAK DA program, the Supreme Commander-in-Chief decided not to rush. That is, PAK DA will be developed, of course, but ...


But in Kazan, the Tu-160M ​​"Pyotr Deinekin" has already been launched into the sky, thus marking the beginning of a new stage in the life of the Tu-160. M1 + or M2 is not so important, what is important is that the aircraft developed by Soviet engineers gets a second life in Russia.

Let's leave strategic bombers, now we are not talking about them.

We will talk about another veteran of the Soviet Air Force, who definitely would not hurt to get back on the assembly line. This is the Mi-14 anti-submarine helicopter.


Back in 2015, Defense Minister Shoigu made a loud statement that the production of the Mi-14 would again begin in Kazan. The helicopter, which was removed from production and service, according to many sources, under pressure from the United States.

In this material, we will not consider the issue of the reliability of rumors, but will try to assess how this step can have a positive effect on the country's defense as a whole and how realistic it is at all.

Since 2015, various media have raised the topic of the fact that "just about ..." Mi-14 will again begin to be produced.


In fact, JSC Russian Helicopters at one time confirmed that the issue of the Mi-14 had been considered and discussed. And there really is a topic for the Mi-14, but it will be split into three stages: repair of operated helicopters, their modernization, and only then the resumption of production.

Does this make sense? Of course have. Roughly the same as in the situation with the Tu-160: we cannot make a new and more modern one - we must take up the old. And the Mi-14 is the only Russian helicopter - a full-fledged amphibian capable of landing, taking off and moving along the water surface.

And, I will note - without 100% probability of drowning, as is the case with the same Ka-27.

prehistory



It all began in 1965 with the Resolution of the Central Committee of the CPSU and the Council of Ministers of the USSR on the development of an anti-submarine amphibious helicopter.

A new machine was created on the basis of the Mi-8, which had already firmly entered into use, and proved itself in the best way. However, the Mi-14 is not an improved copy of the Mi-8, it is a machine for which a lot had to be done anew: the engines, the main gearbox, the search and aiming system, and the positive buoyancy system.

But if the party said that it was necessary ... The first flight took place on August 1, 1967, and in 1976, under the designation Mi-14PL, the helicopter was put into service.

The helicopter was very original, mainly due to the innovative boat-type bottom and side floats-balonets. The car had a retractable chassis.

Of weapons the designers were able to accommodate a fairly decent set of search equipment, and from the attack Mi-14PL it could carry an anti-submarine (or anti-ship) torpedo, or depth charges with a total weight of up to 2 kg, or a 000 kiloton Scalp atomic depth charge.

In total, until 1986, 273 Mi-14s of all modifications were produced: anti-submarine submarine, search and rescue PS and minesweeper BT.


It came out very original, but more cars were sent for export than remained in the USSR. "Allies" received 150 helicopters: Poland, Vietnam, Bulgaria, Cuba, Yemen, North Korea, Yugoslavia, Romania, East Germany, Syria and Libya.

In some countries (Poland, Ukraine, Georgia, etc.), helicopters are currently used.

Why was the helicopter good and what did you remember?

The nickname "Liner" was very significant. For a comfortable and spacious cab layout and low vibration.




The Mi-14 had a very impressive range. He could stay in the air for 5,5 hours, fly over a distance of up to 1100 km, or conduct a hydroacoustic search for 2 hours. Reliability was also a strong point.

Of course, the main distinguishing feature of the helicopter was the full-fledged ability to land on the water, move on the water surface and then take off. In addition, in the event of engine failure, the Mi-14 could land on water and not sink, as was the case with its successor Ka-27.

Why the Mi-14 was removed from service in 1992 is a question. The arguments were very strong so-so: the obsolescence of the Mi-14 avionics and the need to switch to helicopters capable of operating not only from coastal bases, but also from the decks of aircraft carrying ships. And the general reduction of the Armed Forces.

Well, a helicopter outside the cut has appeared on the shift. Ka-27. He really took off and landed on the decks of ships, but ... Question from 2020: how many of those ships do we have left? And how much are we able to build in the near future?

But regarding avionics, many and many people argued in defense of the helicopter. It is very easy to change the avionics as part of the modernization, which, in fact, was demonstrated by the Poles. And they have the Mi-14PL with a completely modern filling normally performs its duties in the Baltic. Yes, the Poles are also withdrawing the Mi-14 from the armed forces, but this is being done only now, after so many years of operation.

Many authors of publications expressed a version that the Mi-14 became a victim of the purposeful "work" of the American special services and diplomacy. The Mi-14, which proved itself very well as a means of detecting submarines, including low-noise ones, which were considered elusive, made our new overseas "friends" very nervous.

And therefore, taking advantage of virtually permissiveness and putting the necessary pressure on Yeltsin, the Americans removed the Mi-14 from the naval aviation and thus greatly facilitated the life of their submariners.

This version was supported in one of the interviews by the chief designer of the Mil Moscow Helicopter Plant (now part of the ML Mil and NI Kamov National Center for Helicopter Building) Alexander Talov.

And one cannot but agree with those who believe that the hand of the United States is visible behind this. The withdrawal of the Mi-14 from aviation looked too unjustified, and it was all too good for the Americans.

We admit that after the Mi-14 and Ka-27 appeared in the USSR, we did not have more machines of a similar class. And today all that the naval aviation has in terms of anti-submarine weapons is the Ka-27, which the fleet is "wearing out". And some more Ka-27s are at the disposal of the FSB border service.

What kind of helicopter do you need?


The question of whether Russia needs today (I'm not even talking about tomorrow) a modern anti-submarine helicopter is unnecessary. The helicopter is needed, and there is nothing to discuss here.


Another question: which car? Multipurpose or percussion?

In general, today, according to many experts, our fleet is in dire need of a transport helicopter. Hence, a multi-purpose machine.

In general, the experience of using the Mi-14 as a cargo-and-passenger vehicle (a modification of the Mi-14GP, manufactured by Converse-Avia) was at the oil and gas fields. A copy of the Mi-14GP in 1996-1997 successfully serviced drilling platforms in the Caspian Sea.

That is, the Russian Navy should receive a new universal amphibious helicopter, which will replace the Mi-14 and Ka-27. And it will have more modern engines, new digital avionics. Naturally, to pay attention to additional buoyancy, on a wave of more than 3 points, with the propeller turned off, the helicopters turned over.


And of course, weapons.

The Mi-14PL had 36 RSL-NM “Chinara” buoys or 8 RBG-N “Niva” buoys in two cassettes in a pressurized compartment. Instead of buoys, the compartment housed the AT-1 anti-submarine torpedo or the Strizh small-size remote-controlled helicopter VVT-1 anti-submarine torpedo developed on its basis. It was possible to place anti-submarine bombs PLAB-50-64, PLAB-250-120 and PLAB-MK.

The power of the Mi-14's power plant was sufficient to transport the Scalp nuclear depth charge, a product weighing more than one and a half tons, within the range of the helicopter. In general, 2 kg of combat load allowed a very wide configuration of a set of weapons on a helicopter.

Resumption of production


But the set of weapons is a secondary matter. The main question is, is it possible at all to resume production of at least the Mi-14, not to mention newer models?

This is not easy, Kazan has already faced a lot of problems when resuming production of the Tu-160. Restoration of design documentation, technological chains, related suppliers, personnel who worked on projects ...

They coped with the plane in Kazan. This is encouraging. It is possible that it will work with the helicopter.

Of course, the old Mi-14 will partially help out, which can be modernized, and on this "fill your hand". Overhaul and subsequent modernization is something that can greatly facilitate the entire cycle.

There is some confidence that Kazan will be able to solve the problems described above and start production of, if not a new helicopter, then at least a well-modernized Mi-14PL. With more powerful engines and new generation avionics.

Experts believe that today the fleet's need is estimated at about 100 vehicles, both anti-submarine and search and rescue vehicles.


The main thing is not to get carried away with fantastic projects. We already have the Superjet and the MS-21, so we should act more rationally and down to earth. Then it's easier to take off.

And the last thing. The fact that projects “originally from the USSR”, such as the Il-476 and Tu-160M2, are currently being implemented, testifies to two things at once.

First, it turns out that Soviet planes and helicopters were quite fine for themselves, because after 30 years it is impossible for them to come up with replacements yet.

Second, the Russian design school is unable to overtake those who, half a century ago, invented new models of airplanes and helicopters.

There is an excuse for the second. There are few new models in the world from year to year. Still, not the beginning of the last century, when a plywood machine, linen, varnish and an automobile engine were needed for the appearance of a new aircraft.

Today, each new aircraft or helicopter is an achievement, since an aircraft developed from the ground up is a very difficult decision. This is a complex of complex decisions.

Considering that materials, technologies, digital systems are constantly being improved, working from scratch is very, very problematic.

And here the path taken by the Americans is quite real. Let's remember the F-16, which made its first flight in 1974, and was adopted in 1979. And it still stands. The question is, how does the first plane differ from those that are on the runways of American airfields 40 years later?

I'm sure it's amazing. With external similarity inside, these planes are completely different.

Why is this path not applicable for us?

Yes, there are plans to develop an amphibian based on the Mi-38. But for this it is first necessary to "test" the Mi-38 itself, master its production, maintenance and repair.

At the same time, we already have an amphibian with which everything can be cranked in the style of the F-16. Moreover, the fleet really does not need so many amphibious helicopters. And for the sake of hundreds of helicopters, it may not be worth developing a new project.

Once we have already made the whole world laugh with the desire to construct something “unparalleled in the world”, in the sense of “Superjet”. Which in essence and characteristics is the Brazilian "Embrayer".

At the same time, the already mentioned Il-476 is only outwardly similar to the progenitor of the Il-76. From the inside, it's a completely different plane.

Why not do the same with the anti-submarine helicopter, which, according to those caring for the fleet, is very necessary for our fleet?
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  1. Asad
    Asad 15 November 2020 06: 13
    16
    A huge period of time, 34 years! Surely the technological equipment has not been preserved, and the personnel have long been retired!
    1. iouris
      iouris 15 November 2020 10: 18
      -2
      Quote: ASAD
      A huge period of time, 34 years!

      By historical standards, the "eternal state" is only one moment.
    2. Vadim237
      Vadim237 15 November 2020 15: 38
      +2
      Outdated morally and physically, like all equipment for it, if you make a new one, then on the basis of the Mi 38 or Kamovskaya Lamprey.
      1. ancient
        ancient 15 November 2020 19: 01
        26
        Quote: Vadim237
        Outdated morally and physically

        What? .... So all MTVs and AMTSs are also outdated? belay
        After all, the conversation is being conducted behind the FLOATING helicopter wink
        Quote: Vadim237
        all equipment for him

        And who says that everything will be put on it .. "ancient"? belay
        Quote: Vadim237
        then based on Mi 38 or Kamovskaya Lamprey.

        For a start, they need to be taught .. "to swim" ... and then try to do something .. "do" ... and "Lamprey" has been for how many years .. "promises" ..... "and where .. ... I am asking you? ......... Where is ..... Gotsman ..? .... Am I asking it incomprehensibly or am I in a low voice today? " wassat
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 16 November 2020 22: 24
          0
          I wrote about the Mi 14 and not about the latest modifications of the Mi 8
          1. Flyer_64
            Flyer_64 17 November 2020 19: 54
            +2
            Quote: Vadim237
            I wrote about the Mi 14 and not about the latest modifications of the Mi 8

            Before writing, you need to read a little history of creation. There was a Mi-4pl, they began to create an anti-submarine helicopter with TV8-2 engines based on the MI-117T, in the process of research and testing, the Mi-14pl with TV3-117 engines turned out, and after that, a version of the Mi-8MT with the same engines appeared. That is, the history of the Mi-8 and Mi-14 is connected.
          2. VO3A
            VO3A 18 November 2020 01: 38
            +2
            There are no problems with the Mi-14 and there will never be ... The problem has been sucked from the finger, and the level is too small ... And comparing the program with the Tu-160, PAK YES and even the Su-57 is simply ridiculous ...
            The author also gives out pearls:
            So, getting burned on the PAK FA and getting an indistinct generation fighter at the exit

            A very dubious and stupid seed ...
    3. ancient
      ancient 15 November 2020 18: 56
      22
      Quote: ASAD
      Surely the technological equipment has not been preserved, and the personnel have long been retired!

      I know ARZ, where the ENTIRE set of technical and design documentation for the production and any type of repairs of the An-12 aircraft is stored on the shelves (the volume of course ... fucking belay ), but .. is. bully
      Therefore, there is an opinion that the entire CD for the Mi-14 helicopter is also preserved. wink
      1. Vale-90
        Vale-90 15 November 2020 19: 19
        +3
        ALL in KB. A set of production at ARZ. Copy.
        1. ancient
          ancient 15 November 2020 19: 46
          +7
          Quote: Vale-90
          A set of production at ARZ. Copy.

          We managed to "take out" from Tashkent ... even with stocks (though where they were taken ... I don't know) ... the whole train was (old-timers said) bully
      2. Shavkat Kuvatov
        Shavkat Kuvatov 16 November 2020 17: 03
        0
        In Soviet times, the entire set of technical and design documentation was stored on the shelves. There was the 1st department. Since 1992, all this "shelf" material has been sold to spies for nothing by hungry factory workers.
    4. Viktor Sergeev
      Viktor Sergeev 16 November 2020 08: 45
      +7
      What a trifle. In Tula, when we needed 23mm barrels for Shilka, they found personnel and set up production on a new basis, and both old people and young people were involved. There is documentation, and there you can upgrade, improve and get an almost new helicopter.
    5. Flyer_64
      Flyer_64 17 November 2020 19: 47
      +2
      Quote: ASAD
      A huge period of time, 34 years!

      The Kazan Helicopter Plant is still assembling the Mi-8/17 in new versions. The Mi-14 is the Mi-8 to which the boat was riveted. Google it and make sure the cockpit layout is the same as that of the Mi-8.
  2. Hunter 2
    Hunter 2 15 November 2020 06: 16
    28
    Actually, the Amphibian helicopter will be in demand not only by the Fleet, I think it will be of interest to Pograntsov and the Ministry of Emergencies.
    I saw the Mi 14 as they say "live", the machine is impressive good
    Hopefully we can resume production of the upgraded version!
    1. Asad
      Asad 15 November 2020 06: 20
      +3
      Tell me, who made the engines for this model?
      1. Hunter 2
        Hunter 2 15 November 2020 06: 26
        +8
        Quote: ASAD
        Tell me, who made the engines for this model?

        Klimovsk engines. Russia JSC Klimov, St. Petersburg at the present time.
        1. Asad
          Asad 15 November 2020 06: 35
          +4
          Thank you for your answer, it's good that it's not in Ukraine.
          1. nonsense
            nonsense 15 November 2020 11: 31
            17
            lol that's exactly what is in Ukraine! Like all engines like TV2 / 3-117 NPO im. Klimov St. Petersburg they just DEVELOPED. They were produced in the Ukraine, Zaporozhye "MotorSich". Only recently and little by little (like the VK-2500) they began to be produced in St. Petersburg ...
            1. max702
              max702 15 November 2020 22: 32
              +2
              Figase just developed some kind of nonsense .. Do you know the most difficult thing, but if there are drawings and technical maps, it is much easier to do something than to do it all from scratch .. But how things are at NPO named after Klimov now .. https: // sdelanounas.ru/blogs/135569/
              1. nonsense
                nonsense 16 November 2020 11: 34
                +1
                if it was so simple then why did Russia buy these engines for so long hostile Ukraine? We could have started producing in St. Petersburg right away in the 90s ... But no, we supported the hostile state with our purchases until the last (2014)!
                1. max702
                  max702 16 November 2020 14: 05
                  +3
                  Duc bratskonarodnost ruled for more than 70 years! And the Ukrainian lobby is by no means an empty phrase ... It's not about simplicity or complexity. and the foolishness of the leadership who considered Ukraine a union state ..
                  1. nonsense
                    nonsense 16 November 2020 14: 17
                    0
                    "brazkonarodnost" and "Ukrainian lobby" is of course, but not so simple ...
                2. Alexey RA
                  Alexey RA 16 November 2020 15: 41
                  +4
                  Quote: nespich
                  if it was so simple, why did Russia buy these engines for so long in hostile Ukraine? Could immediately start producing in St. Petersburg in the 90s ...

                  Yeah ... the simplest thing is to create a plant for the production of turboshaft engines from scratch. And how cheap and fast. smile
                  The issue of localizing the production of engines by the Klimov Design Bureau in the Russian Federation has been resolved, EMNIP, since the mid-90s. For more than ten years, he was killed in negotiations with Boguslaev, who was persuaded either to create a joint venture in the Russian Federation, or to open a branch of his Motor Sich in the Russian Federation. Boguslaev fed them breakfasts, tried to get more and more favorable conditions ... In the end, the management realized that this music would be eternal - and it was decided to build its own plant. In 2010, JSC "Klimov" approved the construction of the plant (3,8 billion rubles, 7 years). In 2013, the first localized engines were assembled. But the establishment of a large series was delayed - and Boguslaev continued to drive Ukrainian engines even after 2014.
        2. Lyudmila Prikhodko
          Lyudmila Prikhodko 15 November 2020 11: 47
          +8
          The fact that the development of TV3-117 of the Klimovsky Design Bureau is yes, but it was produced in Zaporozhye at Motor Sich.
      2. Flyer_64
        Flyer_64 17 November 2020 19: 59
        +1
        Quote: ASAD
        Tell me, who made the engines for this model?

        Zaporizhzhya TV3-117 / M engines developed by Klimovskaya. But as representatives of the design bureau said, this is a copy of a pair of engines that somehow fell from the deck of one dry cargo ship.
  3. U-58
    U-58 15 November 2020 06: 37
    21
    Undoubtedly, the car needs to be reissued.
    But common sense dictates that the practical implementation of this reissue will take many years. The huge growth of bureaucracy "according to ISO 2000/2001", the huge underfunding, which has become our bad tradition, the embezzlement and squandering of funds and, most importantly, the loss of technological methods and skills, the change of generations of workers - all this will become stumbling blocks on the path of any modern undertaking
    1. sav
      sav 15 November 2020 08: 11
      14
      Yes, there are problems you indicated. But they coped with the Tu-160, as the author mentioned. With a positive decision, the new Mi-14 will fly yes
      1. strelokmira
        strelokmira 15 November 2020 08: 24
        28
        Yes, there are problems you indicated. But they coped with the Tu-160, which the author mentioned

        I don’t remember that at least one Tu-160 was built from scratch in the Russian Federation
        The only "new" Tu-160 is a Soviet corps assembled after 30 years.
        1. sav
          sav 15 November 2020 08: 27
          12
          Quote: strelokmira
          I don’t remember that at least one Tu-160 was built from scratch in the Russian Federation

          Not built yet, but under construction. The main thing is to restore technology and personnel hi
          1. SovAr238A
            SovAr238A 15 November 2020 10: 04
            +5
            Quote: sav
            Quote: strelokmira
            I don’t remember that at least one Tu-160 was built from scratch in the Russian Federation

            Not built yet, but under construction. The main thing is to restore technology and personnel hi

            What was restored there?
            1. ZEMCH
              ZEMCH 15 November 2020 15: 12
              16
              Quote: SovAr238A
              What was restored there?

              The production of the center section was completely restored, the engines were modernized, the avionics are completely ours and new, the sighting system for free-fall bombs, etc. the list is huge, and most importantly, it is completely digitized and produced on new CNC machines! ))) wink
              There is a problem with manufacturability, but it concerns the use of new technologies and machine tools, the transfer of old technologies is impossible, only from scratch!
              There are personnel, and this is the most important thing!
              Regarding the Mi-14PL, I will say the following, the gearbox will have to be made from scratch, our engines, the hull will have to be reworked and modernized, a new GAK will have to be made, new weapons, etc.!
              It makes no sense to simply produce the Mi-14, technology has gone ahead wink
              1. SovAr238A
                SovAr238A 15 November 2020 18: 19
                13
                Quote: ZEMCH
                Quote: SovAr238A
                What was restored there?

                The production of the center section was completely restored, the engines were modernized, the avionics are completely ours and new, the sighting system for free-fall bombs, etc. the list is huge, and most importantly, it is completely digitized and produced on new CNC machines! ))) wink
                There is a problem with manufacturability, but it concerns the use of new technologies and machine tools, the transfer of old technologies is impossible, only from scratch!
                There are personnel, and this is the most important thing!


                Is there any photo of slipways with new wing or fuselage parts for Tu-160?
                There is none.
                As the body has been assembled, which has stood for almost 20 years, everything is still at the same level.
                They promised to roll out, but there is nothing.
                When they get it together, then we'll talk, so can we start talking?
                But as with the Il-76-MD - they promised 12 pieces a year, but it turns out 1-2 pieces, and then with the heroic efforts of the entire government ...
                About modernized engines - I would not call them modernized.
                Knowing Kuznetsov firsthand, knowing that 70-80% of the documentation was completely lost and could not be found for several years, they tried to restore the documentation for 6 years, and thwarted the delivery time of even not modernized engines for 10 years. They could not even repair the existing ones, due to the lack of documentation.
                Now they started not shaky not shaky.
                But they are not modernized.
                They are refurbished from old stocks that require renovation.

                How will digitizing drawings help you with a lost technological process as well as the lack of the required alloys and steels in the modern assortment?

                CNC machines for military enterprises stopped arriving back in 2015.
                And our analogous ones - I don't think there will be.
                In addition to the hardware machine itself, you also need controllers and software. And this is under sanctions.
                So everything will be on sledgehammers again ...
                Not CNC.
                .
                The story about the Ulyanovsk problem, about the Kazan problem, everyone probably heard how the CNC machine was transported to a new workshop, and it stopped working. Sanctions however. The manufacturer controls to the nearest meter where his machine stands and what products it produces. Whether civil or military.

                So there are fewer defirambs. From the news, where, in fact, odby deception and wishful thinking.



                Quote: ZEMCH

                Regarding the Mi-14PL, I will say the following, the gearbox will have to be made from scratch, our engines, the hull will have to be reworked and modernized, a new GAK will have to be made, new weapons, etc.!
                It makes no sense to simply produce the Mi-14, technology has gone ahead wink


                I agree with this.
                Everybody stopped producing amphibious helicopters.
                There is just as much sense in an amphibious helicopter as in an ekranoplan - exactly zero.
                1. Alexander Seklitsky
                  Alexander Seklitsky 15 November 2020 20: 25
                  -1
                  Yes, all that you know, right in every barrel with a plug visited laughing straight and in the field a reaper and a dude
    2. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 15 November 2020 17: 53
      12
      Quote: U-58
      Undoubtedly, the car needs to be reissued.
      But common sense dictates that ...
      And common sense dictates that if there is a possibility and the strength of the airframe remains, then it is better to upgrade what is possible and switch to the Mi-38PL.
      Explain why it should be done.
      1. The Mi-38 has a modern board configuration, is built using new technologies, and has better than the Mi-14 LTH:
      Mi-38: Max take off weight = 15600kg; Bearing load - inside the case -5000kg, on the external sling - 7000kg; Screw diameter -21,1m; length - 20m; Practical speed = 300 km / h; Practical range = 1300 km; Practical ceiling = 5100m, working = 3000m. New board based on IBKO-38 (avionics). The cost price is approximately 15 million rubles.
      Composites were used in the design, new engines - 2xTV7-117V, with a total power of 5000 hp, with afterburner (takeoff mode) - 7000 hp.
      2. What needs to be done to be adopted by the Navy?
      - put at least vert. version of "Novella", if any;
      - to strengthen the units of the hull structure, to make folding blades and aft beam, like in Bel. The casing is designed as "hermetic version".
      - to establish new means of search and destruction, a communication system and the IZOI.
      3. Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federationthat Mil created a new machine, so in 2016 he ordered a small series for testing in the army in a transport version for the Aerospace Forces. At the same time, they asked to strengthen the hull and retrofit the cargo compartment with loading and unloading mechanisms.
      4. Kazan residents have already mastered the production technology, they have an assembly line for this particular machine. And all the equipment for the Mi-14 has sunk into oblivion ... Therefore, the question of its restoration is an anachronism from the 70s of the last century. And who needs this hemorrhoid today?
      Therefore, you should not think that only we are so smart, and those who have been engaged in production and turntables all their lives do not whip the "moment".
      Yes, the base OVR and BMZ helicopter is very needed. It is even better if it is "single" for ship-based operations.
      But, unfortunately, today we have those that have us (and the fleet too!) .. in all the holes!
      IMHO.
      1. Aag
        Aag 15 November 2020 20: 00
        +1
        "The cost price is about 15 million rubles."
        Probably forgot to add American rubles ?! ...
        1. Boa kaa
          Boa kaa 15 November 2020 21: 53
          +1
          No, this is for yourself, loved ones, costs. And the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation will be sold at market value, well, that way for 18-20 lemons, so that there is a fat gain and not offend yourself. (By the way, the normal "restaurant" practice is a 30% mark-up!)
          1. Azimuth
            Azimuth 15 November 2020 22: 10
            +1
            in public catering extra charge 100% hi
          2. Aag
            Aag 16 November 2020 05: 10
            +1
            Quote: BoA KAA
            No, this is for yourself, loved ones, costs. And the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation will be sold at market value, well, that way for 18-20 lemons, so that there is a fat gain and not offend yourself. (By the way, the normal "restaurant" practice is a 30% mark-up!)


            "The unit cost is about 252 million rubles. Or from $ 14,75 million to ~ $ 17,5 million (Mi-17V-5, export) Mi-8AMTSh (for government customers): ~ 200 (for 2010) - 250 million rubles (for 2012) "
            I understand that Vicky is a so-so source ...
            But, nevertheless, the run-up in prices ... is difficult to explain. I think, at the cost indicated by you, some of the Kamaz trucks can be changed for the Mi-8)).
            1. Boa kaa
              Boa kaa 16 November 2020 11: 49
              +1
              Apparently the cost was still indicated in green rubles. I did not mark it in the records at one time, so it turned out incorrectly.
              Most likely 15-17 million dollars. yes
      2. times
        times 16 November 2020 17: 22
        -1
        If they do this with the Mi-38 (analogue of the Mi-14) then it will certainly be great. But how long will it take? Will MO agree?
      3. LastPS
        LastPS 17 November 2020 22: 44
        +1
        Lord, knowing ours, they will follow the path of least resistance, as was the case with tanks, "new" Kalashnikovs, etc. Resuscitation of old aircrafts in homeopathic quantities is the most realistic scenario, in a country where the Be-12 is still being exploited.
  4. mark1
    mark1 15 November 2020 06: 41
    23
    having burned himself on the PAK FA and received a fighter of an indistinct generation and the same characteristics at a crazy price,

    ????? what was that????
    They will produce Mi-14 again and thank God! This is not such a super problem (after all, Mi-8s are produced and the engines are the same) as the restoration of production of Tu-160 or Il-76 or even Il-114.
    In the case of PAK YES, the very concept of application is not clear (even the Americans have not fully understood, but they have money up to ... "in general, you will be up to your waist") and therefore "suffer"
    1. LastPS
      LastPS 17 November 2020 22: 46
      0
      What's not clear? Typical weapon platform carrying CRs.
  5. parusnik
    parusnik 15 November 2020 07: 12
    +7
    The newest weapons, these are the latest technologies, the latest equipment, the latest materials, new types of assembly, highly qualified specialists, new plants, the reconstruction of old ones, from the washer to the final result ... But in the conditions of the existing world system, this is very expensive for them, especially for Russia. Therefore, it is much cheaper to upgrade what you have.
    1. LastPS
      LastPS 17 November 2020 22: 49
      +2
      Expensive, of course. You can't put patriotism on bread, in conditions when they plan to feed only you and your brothers with patriotism.
  6. lopvlad
    lopvlad 15 November 2020 07: 13
    22
    So, having burned himself on the PAK FA and having received a fighter of an indistinct generation and the same characteristics at an insane price, with its analogue in the form of the PAK DA program, the Supreme Commander-in-Chief decided not to rush. That is, PAK YES will be developed, of course, but


    The SU-57 is considered to be an indistinct generation only by those who are known to be "completely out of the material" or who are subject to Western propaganda who perceive any derogatory Western word about a Russian aircraft as the ultimate truth.
    The development of the PAK DA is proceeding according to schedule, which has been repeatedly stated and stated in the media, although the aircraft is already positioned not as a replacement for the TU-160 and TU-95 at once, but only as a replacement for the subsonic TU-95.
    "In 2019, the Ministry of Defense approved the final sketch of the PAK DA. The characteristics of the aircraft have been agreed, all contract documents necessary for the production of samples have been signed, preparatory stages of design are underway. The start of flight tests is included in the State Arms Program-2027."


    And there really is a topic for the Mi-14, but it will be split into three stages: repair of operated helicopters, their modernization, and only then the resumption of production.


    the question about the Mi-14 was raised back in 2015 and did not go further. And judging by the fact that the last MI-14 was produced in the distant 1986, the competence was lost and everything will have to start with the drawings. As was the case with the TU-160 when from the Soviet the new TU-160 received only a glider shape and appearance.

    The fact that projects “originally from the USSR”, such as the Il-476 and Tu-160M2, are currently being implemented, testifies to two things at once.

    First, it turns out that Soviet planes and helicopters were quite fine for themselves, because after 30 years it is impossible for them to come up with replacements yet.

    Second, the Russian design school is unable to overtake those who, half a century ago, invented new models of airplanes and helicopters.


    testifies only to one thing that the RF Ministry of Defense learned to count money and this happened because of the global economic crisis.
    From the Soviet in the new IL-476 (this is not the official name of the Il-76MD-90A aircraft) and the TU-160M2, only the shape of the airframe and a similar appearance, and the rest is all new. Indeed, why spend a lot of money to gain in aerodynamics in hundredths of a percent of the new airframe if you can use the "old" time-tested glider shape.

    That is, the Russian Navy should receive a new universal amphibious helicopter, which will replace the Mi-14 and Ka-27.


    it would be an attempt to cross a snake with a hedgehog. Therefore, a replacement for the KA-27 has already been determined, and this is the Minoga helicopter, a contract for the development of which the RF Ministry of Defense has already signed at the Army-2020 forum. Minoga, like the Ka-27, will not be floating ...

    The MI-14 project itself is essentially a flaw because the idea of ​​a "floating" helicopter was not brought to mind. Such a suitcase without a handle, which is hard to carry (already a lot of costs for finishing it up to mind) and sorry to leave because the idea itself was good.
    1. Asad
      Asad 15 November 2020 10: 56
      0
      Today I specially read about PAK YES, they promise the first prototype by 2025, do you think they will manage?
      1. Cosm22
        Cosm22 15 November 2020 12: 03
        +3
        Well, why not manage?
        If, as the author of the previous commentary described, the beautiful marquise is doing well?
        The final sketch of the PAK DA has been approved, therefore, there will be no more delay behind the drawings. The characteristics of the aircraft have been agreed, all contract documents have been signed, and preparatory design stages are underway. All veri good.
        There remains a mere trifle, so, a trifle - to make at least one spar in the production workshop, which could be seen and touched by hands.
        1. Genry
          Genry 15 November 2020 14: 17
          0
          Quote: Cosm22
          There remains a mere trifle, so, a trifle - to make at least one spar in the production workshop, which could be seen and touched by hands.

          Spars? Them are on CNC ....
          Watch 28:50
          1. Timx
            Timx 15 November 2020 19: 38
            +3
            Them are on CNC ....
            Well, yes, CNC)))
            Eh, you argue exactly like the current effective (defective) managers who rule our miraculously still surviving defense enterprises ... Although, maybe it was sarcasm, then it is accepted))
        2. lopvlad
          lopvlad 16 November 2020 08: 05
          -1
          Quote: Cosm22
          a trifle - to make at least one spar in the production workshop, which could be seen and touched by hands.


          why do you need a spar if

          The first prototype of the engine for the new Russian strategic bomber PAK DA is planned to be submitted for testing this year, Deputy Defense Minister Alexei Krivoruchko told reporters during his visit to the Samara enterprise of PJSC Kuznetsov.
    2. La Peruse
      La Peruse 15 November 2020 10: 59
      -7
      As I understand from your commentary you are in the material. Designer of the Sukhoi Design Bureau or an engineer at the plant in Komsamolsk? So explain to realists and skeptics why the SU-57 is not yet in the army and still has no clear concept? !!
      1. sivuch
        sivuch 15 November 2020 14: 19
        +7
        Only not for realists and skeptics, but for amateurs and whiners. What specifically intelligible concept did you have in mind? do you need to publish the flight manual for this aircraft or manual on the power supply? By the way, injecting your opinion about the Su-14 into an article about the Mi-57 is already bad bad manners.
        1. cmax
          cmax 15 November 2020 21: 29
          +1
          Quote: sivuch
          glider

          I thought, bad Moviton, it is not to have in the army at the present time more than one regiment of Su-57.
      2. lopvlad
        lopvlad 16 November 2020 08: 16
        -1
        Quote: La Peruse
        So explain to realists and skeptics why the SU-57 is not yet in the army


        for the same reason why the United States did not have 100500 F-22 aircraft, but only 195 units were produced in all the years. Namely, because of the high cost of the aircraft and its operation. Give the RF Ministry of Defense money to buy the SU-57 and they will be in troops.
    3. Sergey Sfiedu
      Sergey Sfiedu 15 November 2020 14: 12
      +8
      "From the Soviet in the new IL-476 .... and TU-160M2, only the shape of the airframe and a similar appearance, and the rest is all new" - the main thing is to write correctly, patriotically! And how much it corresponds to the truth - it doesn't matter! There is not the shape of the glider - there the glider itself remained practically the same, but in relation to the Tu-160 (and, it seems, some Il-76) - this glider was also started by construction in the USSR.
      1. lopvlad
        lopvlad 16 November 2020 08: 35
        -1
        Quote: Sergey Sfyedu
        There is not the shape of the glider - there the glider itself remained practically the same, but in relation to the Tu-160 (and, it seems, some Il-76)


        the shape remained the same, and the composition of the materials from which it was assembled has seriously changed (due to a larger percentage of composite materials) and became lighter in weight, while maintaining strength.
        It has already taken 160 years to resume production of the TU-5, and it took even more to start producing the Il-76, and there is still no mass production.
        At the same time, the TU-160 is essentially an irreplaceable component of the nuclear triad, and the Il-76 cannot be replaced for both military and civilian transportation.
        MI-14 is a highly specialized helicopter, and its design itself imposes restrictions (for example, it is quite large to be placed in a hangar on a military ship) on applications, and anti-submarine aircraft are quite capable of finding and eliminating submarines, and the KA-27 is an excellent firefighter and rescuer on the water.
    4. tovarich-andrey.62goncharov
      tovarich-andrey.62goncharov 15 November 2020 17: 50
      0
      "only those who, as you know," are not at all in the material "or are subject to Western propaganda" - or someone named Romane Skomorokhov and his comrades. On the site - their name is legion. You will recognize it by thinking, words and nervous reaction to the light of real information.
      1. Vale-90
        Vale-90 15 November 2020 18: 30
        0
        laughing

        He is a good bot, as, indeed, I am ... bully
    5. Esso
      Esso 16 November 2020 15: 15
      +2
      Each article you write accurately reflects the realities, the author of the article lives in his own world and considers his opinion to be correct, but alas, he is a hostage of his thoughts and stupidity. And the world is smart, and in the MO, they are fools, not like that, everything is more complicated.
  7. Humpty
    Humpty 15 November 2020 07: 17
    24
    As for a layman, after reading it, it remained unclear to me how important it was for the disclosure of the Mi-14 topic, stroking the F-16 and shitting on the Su-57.
    1. tovarich-andrey.62goncharov
      tovarich-andrey.62goncharov 15 November 2020 17: 55
      +2
      ... "and guess at the Su-57" - and this is from the series "The Soviet Union in places resembled Nazi Germany" of one mmm ... a creature proudly calling itself a "journalist". Only inside - ... it.
  8. Bez 310
    Bez 310 15 November 2020 07: 19
    43
    The question is interesting ...
    At one time, the Mi-14 was a wonderful machine, but time goes by,
    and you need to think carefully before rushing to spend money.
    What is so good about this helicopter compared to the Ka-27?
    Flight range, operating time, combat load. Landing on water
    I do not consider it, in anti-submarine business this is not the main thing. What
    badly? Impossibility of basing on ships.
    What's so bad about both helicopters? Obsolete anti-submarine
    complex. Do we have a new anti-submarine complex that
    could be stuck into the old MI-14 building? I have not heard of this ...
    I think that this is exactly where we need to start, with a new complex
    search for submarines, based not only on GAS and RSL.
    In general, the issue of upgrading the Mi-14 should be returned only after
    how we will have a new submarine search complex. And the alteration of the cabins
    "from clocks to monitors", without solving the main problem, I consider it simple
    a waste of money and time.
    1. Pavel57
      Pavel57 15 November 2020 07: 41
      +2
      It is possible to make a new helicopter based on the Mi-38.
      1. Bez 310
        Bez 310 15 November 2020 07: 54
        15
        Quote: Pavel57
        based on Mi-38

        Yes, there are already plans for a completely new "Lamprey",
        but these are all just plans ...
        We have always been good with plans.
      2. Timx
        Timx 15 November 2020 14: 02
        -1
        Make a new helicopter based on the Mi-38
        .
        The Mi-38 will celebrate its 40th anniversary since the start of development in 3 years ... It is better to do a really new project (but only if the military has a real need for it).
    2. Vale-90
      Vale-90 15 November 2020 09: 39
      +8
      The car is normal. Donskoy was already jumping up and down with anger when they were cut. And landing on the water is useful. Remember the story of Vova Cherkes' Mi-14? When they got on the water and rowed in "boat" mode to Cam Ranh.
      In Kamchatka, they examined the dive points of boats. A very nice car.
      1. Bez 310
        Bez 310 15 November 2020 10: 43
        +7
        Yes, I remember everything ...
        But even better, I begin to realize that
        all these new projects are just for "cutting"
        money, but not to restore the Marine
        aviation.
        1. Vale-90
          Vale-90 15 November 2020 10: 59
          +3
          You, as a former official of "cubanoid", should know, "What is the official position, if it is not used." They steal, of course. laughing
  9. Fitter65
    Fitter65 15 November 2020 07: 32
    10
    In China, the descendant of Tu-16 is still flying, and nothing, they do not bother, only the "Insides" have time to update.
    1. Jacket in stock
      Jacket in stock 15 November 2020 09: 32
      12
      Quote: Fitter65
      The descendant of Tu-16 still flies in China, and nothing,

      Yes, in America the same F16, F15, Hercules and much more.
      Only there is a very big difference.
      The production of these models did not stop either in China or in America.
      On the way, one thing or another changed little by little, as a result, almost everything changed, but gradually.
      Our Mi14 was taken out of production a long time ago, there was nothing left at the plant, and the suppliers had nothing left. And not all of the suppliers themselves survived.
      Renewal will be equal to mastering a new machine. What for?
      Moreover, the development of a new model is underway.
      1. Cyril G ...
        Cyril G ... 15 November 2020 10: 10
        +2
        The production of the Mi-8 did not stop even in the 90s, if anything.
      2. Fitter65
        Fitter65 15 November 2020 10: 24
        +1
        Quote: Jacket in stock
        Our Mi14 was taken out of production a long time ago,

        Thanks. I am aware of the history of the creation, production and operation of the Mi-14, thank God I even have some literature on this aircraft.
  10. serg.shishkov2015
    serg.shishkov2015 15 November 2020 07: 54
    +2
    They do not seek from goodness! American helicopter pilots at one time really did not want to part with * Sea King *! Dad Igor did it himself! Are we worse? If you can upgrade an initially very good car, you have to do it! Good luck!
  11. Ros 56
    Ros 56 15 November 2020 08: 10
    10
    Roman, how many cars have you designed, or at least participated? Do you have any idea what it is?
    1. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 15 November 2020 10: 10
      +5
      No, it doesn't.
  12. Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 15 November 2020 08: 52
    +4
    Eh, our generation of "copyists" has not "grown up", as in China! Whatever one wants to produce, so problems begin! Whether to take the Chinese (!) ... whatever slamzat, you will not have time to blink an eye, how to make "copies" begin ... and even with their quirks! (I remember I got a Chinese mobile phone ("copy" of one Nokia model) ... the name is the same, the look is the same, but unlike the "original" -2 sim cards and a TV receiver ....!)
    1. Jacket in stock
      Jacket in stock 15 November 2020 09: 21
      +5
      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      Whether to take the Chinese (!) ... whatever slamzat, you will not have time to blink an eye, how to produce "copies" begin ... and even with their quirks!

      You yourself answered - Chinese "copies", in fact, turn out to be not copies at all, but completely independent products, only in appearance similar to the "original".
      Why do the Chinese do this? They save on advertising, the buyer is led by the appearance, which is shown from all televisions, friends / neighbors, see this thing in his hands, clatter their tongue .... psychology.
      In fact, in order to copy something, you need to have a level of technology comparable to the level of what you are copying. Roughly speaking, you can't cut an iPhone out of a log with an ax. One must be able to make not only the appearance, but also the filling - the microprocessor, the display, the battery, and even the case is beautiful and not crooked.
      And the more technological the product, the higher the level of the "copyist" industry should be.
      It is not for nothing that the same Chinese, having their own production of helicopters, buy them from us. It means that the Chinese have not learned something that ours can do.
    2. Sergey Sfiedu
      Sergey Sfiedu 15 November 2020 14: 26
      +2
      "copy" of one Nokia model ... the name is the same, the look is the same, but unlike the "original" -2 sim cards and a TV receiver ... "- only the originals were smartphones based on Symbian OS, probably one of the best at that time, and all Chinese phones of that time had the same rather poor insides.
      1. Rzzz
        Rzzz 16 November 2020 00: 25
        -1
        Quote: Sergey Sfyedu
        but unlike the "original" -2 sim cards and a TV receiver ... "- only the originals were smartphones on Symbian OS

        Only two sim cards and a TV were more useful than a poor symbian.
        He owned several Chinese phones, then studied the topic. There were several chipsets with different characteristics. Those who are more powerful - the functionality was good. I had it with a WiFi module (a button switch in 2012 !!, although there was a touch screen there as well), with an email client and some kind of messenger. And everything worked fine!
    3. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 15 November 2020 17: 46
      +7
      "Either take the Chinese (!) ... whatever slams, you will not have time to blink an eye, how to make" copies "begin" ///
      ----
      To make a good copy, you need a high technological level: machines, materials,
      base of electronics, software, specialists.
      All this is in China. They have a developed CIVIL industry.
      Civil private high-tech.
      Therefore, their copies work, and - then - improved copies
      and, then, independent development.
      1. Cyril G ...
        Cyril G ... 15 November 2020 19: 44
        -2
        Aircraft engines for Fighters just somehow do not come out, yes ..... And ship diesel engines, MTU Chinese obscene, from the word in general.
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 15 November 2020 20: 53
          +2
          The Chinese follow the Japanese and South Korean paths.
          In the 60s, the "obscene" Japanese quality was scolded. In the 90s - "bawdy" Korean quality. Today South Korea is a world leader in shipbuilding. But China is catching up quickly.
          The Zvezda shipyard was built for Russia jointly by South Koreans and Chinese.
          And the diesels on the ships under construction there will be from these countries.
          1. Cyril G ...
            Cyril G ... 15 November 2020 22: 00
            -2
            With engines, both aircraft and marine, no one has yet been able to catch up with the leaders in a hundred years, this is the reality, and the Chinese cannot.
            For 15 years, from a resource of 300 hours, the Chinese came to the WS-10 resource of 900 hours of real, not invented 1200 hours. I present to you personally the opportunity to calculate when the Al-41 and F-100 will catch up on the resource.
        2. Rzzz
          Rzzz 16 November 2020 00: 31
          0
          Quote: Cyril G ...
          ship diesel, MTU Chinese obscene, from the word in general.

          In my company, the auxiliaries were replaced by Weichai and licensed Deutz Chinese, range of 50-100 kW. There are an order of magnitude less problems with them than with old Soviet technology. Less consumption and fewer repairs.
          1. Cyril G ...
            Cyril G ... 16 November 2020 00: 36
            -2
            The FSB refused to buy Chinese MTUs after four years of racing with them. The laying of the ships of Project 22460 is completed. The Navy similarly completed the laying of the ships of Project 21631. The border guards are resuming the construction of the ships of Project 10410 with the Stars.
            1. Rzzz
              Rzzz 16 November 2020 00: 42
              0
              Quote: Cyril G ...
              The border guards are resuming the construction of the ships of Project 10410 with the Stars.

              Most likely there are "corporate interests" and the need to warm the right pockets.
              Not one sane customer will order a Star.
              And the fact that it is impossible to exploit ... Well, I do not know. After all, you need to understand what the problem is. Bad diesels from Mercedes, or bad mechanics from the FSB. Or does a Mercedes specially, only for the FSB, make a bad diesel engine?
              1. Cyril G ...
                Cyril G ... 16 November 2020 02: 13
                -2
                And what has Mercedes got to do with it? Disgusting Chinese made diesels. On a pile of ships of the series there are MTUs. There were no problems there. And the Chinese had to be finished with files for three years both on project 22460 and on project 21631.
                And about the star, well, your right to think so, am I against what? Not shine, but in terms of specific characteristics and weight and dimensions, they are still the best.
                1. Rzzz
                  Rzzz 16 November 2020 08: 37
                  0
                  Quote: Cyril G ...
                  Not gloss, but in terms of specific characteristics and weight and dimensions, they are still the best.

                  First of all, one should look not at the weight and size characteristics, but at the operational ones. What's the point that, according to some parameters, the engine is the best if it is faulty, and the steamer has been in the base for years, waiting for repairs.
                  And the whole world has already realized that 10000 horses are easier to get from a gas turbine, which is three times lighter than from a 112-cylinder monster, which is practically beyond repair on board, and has an overhaul life of 2000 hours. These ships sail from sea to sea on rivers in towso that the resource is not wasted.
                  1. Cyril G ...
                    Cyril G ... 16 November 2020 13: 03
                    0
                    Quote: rzzz
                    And the whole world has already realized that 10000 horses are easier to get from a gas turbine, which is three times lighter than from a 112-cylinder monster, which is practically beyond repair on board.


                    Don't give a damn about the whole world. We still have no choice for the next 5 years. In Russia, they are just entering the production of ship-borne gas turbines. And the Chinese analogs of MTU are very sad. Both the Navy and the FSB, after the sad experience with Chinese diesel engines, leaned towards the stars.

                    which is practically beyond repair on board,

                    In general, they are renovating.

                    defective, and the steamer has been at the base for years, waiting for repairs.

                    I don't remember any critical issues with the Stars. And ancient Albatrosses nonche periodically go to Chukotka.

                    the need to warm up the right pockets.


                    This is not true. Imported rollbacks more
  13. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 15 November 2020 09: 06
    +4
    There are avionics, there is a theater of operations ... on the new Mi8 / 17 ... 38. Everything is localized. The Mi38 was made taking into account the developments on the Mi14 ...
  14. Badger
    Badger 15 November 2020 09: 30
    +5
    The author drives an incompetent bullshit!
    1. Fitter65
      Fitter65 15 November 2020 10: 26
      +7
      Quote: Badger
      The author drives an incompetent bullshit!

      Did you just notice?
      1. Asad
        Asad 15 November 2020 11: 02
        +1
        Well, I like his articles on the history of aircraft construction, but according to the modern, of course, the boss is gone !!!
        1. Fitter65
          Fitter65 15 November 2020 17: 05
          +3
          Quote: ASAD
          Well, I like his articles on the history of aircraft construction,

          This is probably because you do not have time to read normal articles and monographs on the history of aviation, written by people who are actually in the subject of the question they are writing about, and not these writings performed by our free reprint.
          1. Asad
            Asad 15 November 2020 17: 10
            0
            Tell me where to find it?
            1. Fitter65
              Fitter65 15 November 2020 23: 47
              +1
              Quote: ASAD
              Tell me where to find it?

              You type the type of aircraft you are interested in with the word monograph and into a search engine, or just a word-reading of a book on aviation, you can also find it in more detail and professionally written on the "Corner of the Sky", "Aviation Collection", "War in the Sky" ... I used to subscribe / buy books and magazines, now I take more and more in e-mail.
  15. The comment was deleted.
  16. The comment was deleted.
  17. Esso
    Esso 15 November 2020 09: 44
    +7
    So, having burned himself on the PAK FA and having received a fighter of an indistinct generation and the same characteristics at an insane price, with its analogue in the form of the PAK DA program, the Supreme Commander-in-Chief decided not to rush. That is, PAK DA will be developed, of course, but ...
    Alas, you do not understand anything about this novel.
    To create a new 5th generation combat aircraft is a very difficult task, once again I think many others understand that you do not know much about this, he is a critic and a critic in Africa. So do not disgrace yourself and do not write.
    In the USSR, 20 years passed from project to mass production, and this did not take into account the collapse of the country and the crisis of the defense industry without money. Apart from scientific personnel. And ours miraculously created, so now you need to bring it up.
    And about f 35, but everyone knows about its problems, the Americans decided so, we will release more, and then we will bring it to mind. Although fine-tuning, I am impressed by the Israelis, they have always been smart.
    And the anti-submarine helicopter, Yes, and it is so clear that our country, namely the military sphere, needs a lot of things that can be updated, we will update, and what is not possible, we need to create a new one. The Americans have created a lot of things, only while this is all a concept. The Chinese copy and adapt everything for themselves. So there is a lot of work, but everyone can criticize, but create it yourself, so that it still works and flies. Let's remember the ka-52, they began to create it with the re-equipment of the ka-50, which they began to create already in 1976, and before production in 2008. Total 32 years. Thanks to Mikheev.
    1. Alf
      Alf 15 November 2020 20: 14
      +1
      Quote: Esso
      In the USSR, it took 20 years from project to mass production,

      MIG-23 is 12 years old.
      MIG-29 is 13 years old.
      1. Esso
        Esso 15 November 2020 20: 52
        +1
        Well, and what, on average, according to experts from the beginning of development to the full production cycle, about 20 years, +, -
        MiG-29 15 years old
        MiG-23 10-12 years old
  18. Vale-90
    Vale-90 15 November 2020 09: 51
    +3
    He does not use "willow".
    https://otvaga2004.mybb.ru/viewtopic.php?id=2247
    Since 1980 for sure. There is nothing. I used "Chinaru". Applications were written in turn to the PLOR for the suspension, I am NSh from Beshek and Gena Kardash, NSh 175 OPLVE. The buoys are the same))) Therefore, they wrote on one application, if the shifts are together. But, usually, the turntables had a separate change.


  19. faiver
    faiver 15 November 2020 10: 06
    +2
    In addition, in the event of engine failure, the Mi-14 could land on water and not sink, as was the case with its successor, the Ka-27.
    - When the Mi-14 falls into the water, the novel will drown in the same way as the Ka-27, this is not a plastic float ...
    The fact that we need such a helicopter is not discussed, but we, as always, talk a lot and do little ...
    1. Bez 310
      Bez 310 15 November 2020 10: 49
      14
      Quote: faiver
      if it falls into the water, the Mi-14 will drown in the same way as the Ka-27

      There was a case in Cam Ranh when a Mi-14 landed on water due to a malfunction
      far from the coast, and in this position "planed" to the bay
      few hours. Buried in the shore, dropped the landing gear, and went out on his own
      on beach.
      But I repeat, for the search for submarines "water swimming" does not mean
      It has.
      1. faiver
        faiver 15 November 2020 10: 54
        +6
        Well, so to speak, on the way back - in the late 80s, in the Mediterranean Sea, the Ka-27 made an emergency landing on water, on ballonets and was towed to the ship ... hi
    2. Vladimir1155
      Vladimir1155 15 November 2020 17: 41
      -1
      to sit down is not to fall, it is worse when it is not possible to sit down or land
    3. Alf
      Alf 15 November 2020 20: 15
      +2
      Quote: faiver
      if it falls into the water, the Mi-14 will drown in the same way

      And when landing on the water?
  20. Cyril G ...
    Cyril G ... 15 November 2020 10: 07
    +8
    So, having burned himself on the PAK FA and having received a fighter of an indistinct generation and the same characteristics at a crazy price,

    Skomorokhov and why lie? The declared price overboard is more than adequate. On the radar of the fighter, you are understandably not in the teeth.
  21. loki565
    loki565 15 November 2020 10: 47
    +4
    It has long been outdated, if only a deep modernization with the replacement of the power plant, avionics and all the filling. And Kamov is better suited for the sea.
    1. Bez 310
      Bez 310 15 November 2020 10: 54
      12
      The commander of this helicopter for life
      was a cocky jerk so
      what is not necessary for the "black sheep"
      judge the helicopter as a whole.
      1. loki565
        loki565 15 November 2020 11: 07
        +4
        During operation, there were cases of water filling the underwater part of the bottom, but earlier it was possible to take off by accelerating the helicopter through the water.
        1. Bez 310
          Bez 310 15 November 2020 11: 12
          +8
          Quote: loki565
          used to be able to take off

          The specific case in the video was discussed in Wednesday
          specialists, the conclusion is unambiguous - the commander is to blame.
          1. Vale-90
            Vale-90 15 November 2020 11: 18
            0
            By helicopters. The world is small. The dead on the Mi-24 Fed ... the son of the head of the AVB communications in Elizovo. (((
          2. The comment was deleted.
            1. Bez 310
              Bez 310 15 November 2020 11: 54
              +3
              Quote: Liam
              Engine failure cited as cause of Mi-14 disaster in Aniva Bay

              Well, yes, yes ...
              Engine failure caused
              splashdown, no doubt about it.
              Let's not stir up the past ...
              1. Liam
                Liam 15 November 2020 12: 14
                +1
                Quote: Bez 310

                Yes Yes..



                1. Bez 310
                  Bez 310 15 November 2020 12: 24
                  +5
                  I know all this very well ...
                  But I don't want to discuss, everything has already been sorted out to the smallest detail,
                  but these are the little things that nobody needs here.
                  1. Liam
                    Liam 15 November 2020 12: 28
                    0
                    Quote: Bez 310
                    I know all this very well ...
                    But I don't want to discuss, everything has already been sorted out to the smallest detail,
                    but these are the little things that nobody needs here.

                    Why then write that the commander's fault. The initial reason is technical failure
                    1. Bez 310
                      Bez 310 15 November 2020 12: 32
                      +6
                      Quote: Liam
                      Why then write that the commander's fault

                      Not all failures lead to disasters.
                      Finish on this.
                    2. Alf
                      Alf 15 November 2020 20: 18
                      +2
                      Quote: Liam
                      Quote: Bez 310
                      I know all this very well ...
                      But I don't want to discuss, everything has already been sorted out to the smallest detail,
                      but these are the little things that nobody needs here.

                      Why then write that the commander's fault. The initial reason is technical failure


                      It seems everything is written in Russian ...
                      1. Liam
                        Liam 15 November 2020 20: 22
                        0
                        It is also written in Russian that after the engine failure, the helicopter flopped into the water, as a result of which the hull cracked and the helicopter took one and a half tons of water literally in a minute. After that, it had two ways only to the bottom or to the landfill
                  2. lopvlad
                    lopvlad 16 November 2020 20: 06
                    0
                    Quote: Bez 310
                    But I don't want to discuss, everything has already been sorted out to the smallest detail,


                    and why there to disassemble the main causes and problems of MI-14 is a weak engine for it and problems with the design of the "boat" of the helicopter. If these problems had not existed, no one would have removed it from service.
          3. Saxahorse
            Saxahorse 15 November 2020 22: 55
            +2
            Quote: Bez 310
            The specific case in the video was discussed in Wednesday
            specialists, the conclusion is unambiguous - the commander is to blame.

            The commander is always to blame, by definition. However, the immediate cause of the flooding was the destruction of the radar fairing, completely inappropriately squeezed into the bow of the amphibian. Again, the strong swing clearly showed how badly the helicopter behaves on the water, even with slight waves.

            Mi-14 is a bad car. Landing on water is dangerous for him. And there is no need for anti-submarine helicopters to land on the water. In hover mode, like all girder helicopters, it is inferior to the coaxial scheme. It would be better to take up the revision of the Ka-32.
  22. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 15 November 2020 11: 38
    20
    So, having burned himself on the PAK FA and received a fighter of an indistinct generation and the same characteristics at a crazy price

    Alas, you don't have to read the article further.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  23. nonsense
    nonsense 15 November 2020 11: 49
    +2
    IMHO, of course, but the author does not want to notice that the greatest development and modernization in our country are exclusively the most unnecessary types of military equipment! Before that, there were Tu-160 / PAK-DA, MRK, armored vehicles of the Airborne Forces, but now they have reached the Mi-14 ... As a deck it does not fit - too long + non-folding blades. As a patrol / anti-submarine / search and rescue aircraft of protection water area is preferable aircraft type A-40 (long range, speed, load, patrol time, the ability to land on water and use a towed GAS). But of course they don't even remember about him - instructions from the Washington regional committee were not received ... But about the Mi-14, which in his entire service did not find a single submarine (due to the equipment that does not allow this), they are already talking about ...
    1. Vladimir1155
      Vladimir1155 15 November 2020 17: 49
      +1
      Quote: nespich
      aircraft type A-40 (long range, speed, load, patrol time, the ability to land on water and use a towed GAS)
      just released the first BE200 PLO, but all supporters of the outdated super-expensive unnecessary and defenseless technology = new trash (superlinkoroesins, aircraft carriers, UDC) pounced on me splashing saliva and groundlessly declared all amphibians unnecessary
      1. nonsense
        nonsense 15 November 2020 19: 14
        +1
        released? one!? - but you need 101! And the Be-200 half as much than A-40 (and all parameters - range, carrying capacity ... it is much more modest). And so the updated A-40 is quite capable of replacing all Mi-14, Be-12, Il-38, partly Tu-142 and even small anti-submarine ships. Solid benefit.
        1. Vladimir1155
          Vladimir1155 15 November 2020 19: 18
          -1
          Quote: nespich
          released? one!? - but you need 101!

          I support you, we need a lot of PLO aircraft, only very old ones remained there, about the a40 or BE200 ... I'm not an expert, but such planes are needed and better than amphibians, the fact is that the BE200 is mass-produced, apparently that's why the stake is on it
          1. Zaurbek
            Zaurbek 15 November 2020 20: 40
            +2
            I think we need a single PLO complex ... which will be installed both on land and amphibious vehicles and on Mi14 ...
            1. Vladimir1155
              Vladimir1155 15 November 2020 21: 27
              -1
              yes, I fully support it, a modern efficient PLO complex is needed, and it is reasonable to install it on different carriers
              1. Zaurbek
                Zaurbek 15 November 2020 21: 39
                0
                ..... but in fact there are no carriers. Il114 is on its way. Which can be fully used for military purposes, without the risk of sanctions.
                1. Vladimir1155
                  Vladimir1155 15 November 2020 21: 42
                  -1
                  there is a be200 serial, il114 soon,
                  1. Zaurbek
                    Zaurbek 15 November 2020 21: 44
                    +1
                    And whose turbojet engine is there? And will it be delivered to the military version? So the SSZH 100 is also available and its characteristics are good in terms of range.
                    1. Vladimir1155
                      Vladimir1155 15 November 2020 21: 47
                      0
                      The Be-200 multipurpose amphibious aircraft is designed to solve firefighting tasks, provide emergency assistance in emergency disaster areas, search and rescue on water, ambulance and cargo transportation. At the moment, the Be-200 is powered by the D-436TP engine manufactured by the Ukrainian Motor Sich JSC. UEC in September last year announced plans to complete the re-engining of the aircraft by the end of 2020 by installing Russian-French SaM146 produced by NPO Saturn on it.
                      1. Zaurbek
                        Zaurbek 15 November 2020 21: 52
                        +1
                        These turbojet engines have one problem ..... one Ukrainian, the second 50% French. SSZH 100. Could not enter the VKS for transportation. Until the "hot part" and "brains" in military aviation are reinforced, these aircraft will not be used.
                      2. Avior
                        Avior 16 November 2020 05: 11
                        -1
                        That is, you can forget about its military use with engines such as Zaporozhye and French.
                      3. Vladimir1155
                        Vladimir1155 16 November 2020 11: 25
                        -1
                        Quote: Avior
                        military applications with such engines,

                        not necessarily, it is produced in Rybinsk, which means you need to localize some of the parts, that's all,
                      4. Avior
                        Avior 16 November 2020 11: 31
                        +1
                        The devil is in the details.
                        Probably, first you need to completely localize production, then raise the issue of military use
                        hi
  • Vale-90
    Vale-90 15 November 2020 12: 11
    0
    Quote: Jacket in stock
    Hercules

    This is so.
    He sat down in Melitopol, brought weapons. Engines are two years old. "Elephants" climbed, looked at the nameplates.
  • Al Asad
    Al Asad 15 November 2020 12: 25
    +4
    Everything mixed up in the Oblonskys' house ..... and Mi-14 and Su-57 and Tu-160 and Il-76 and Superjet and MS-21
  • fiberboard
    fiberboard 15 November 2020 16: 09
    +3
    "Superjet" flies, and it seems not bad.
    1. faiver
      faiver 15 November 2020 18: 06
      -1
      not bad like
      - tell this to the airlines operators, they will laugh for a long time ...
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 15 November 2020 20: 38
        +3
        In a pandemic, only SSZ flies ... and, finally, they began to fly not through Moscow.
    2. fiberboard
      fiberboard 16 November 2020 15: 00
      0
      I don't know about airlines, but I flew to Moscow. It's five hours in the summer, just like Airbus. The opposite is true, yes, Krasnoyarsk flew in a large foreign car, I really liked it. The superjet sat down somehow steeper, and the large foreign car smoothly. The only thing is that the flight attendants, all the way to Krasnoyarsk, rolled carts with everything: newspapers, juices, sweets, some kind of jewelry, some kind of equipment. Like peddlers. They were not allowed to sleep, and they were not fed. And in Superjet there was juice and lunch.
  • 123456789
    123456789 15 November 2020 16: 15
    +1
    Back in 2015, Defense Minister Shoigu made a loud statement that the production of the Mi-14 would again begin in Kazan. The helicopter, which was removed from production and service, according to many sources, under pressure from the United States.


    GENERALS ALWAYS PREPARING FOR THE PAST WAR -1914-ghodov)
  • Al_lexx
    Al_lexx 15 November 2020 16: 21
    0
    Here, I cannot but agree with the author.
    The machine is efficient. Refresh and another 40 years can fly.
  • johnatan.kowalski
    johnatan.kowalski 15 November 2020 16: 40
    0
    It will never be good in this country as long as there are people in power who have accounts in foreign banks in foreign currency
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Vladimir1155
    Vladimir1155 15 November 2020 17: 21
    -3
    the restoration of coastal aviation PLO PMO is an urgent need, it is necessary to resume the production of MI14, and mass production with new avionics with new weapons, but this must be done without fail, and urgently, and not scattered on unnecessary battleship destroyers with UDC and AV, obsolete 100 years ago
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. tovarich-andrey.62goncharov
      tovarich-andrey.62goncharov 15 November 2020 18: 02
      +2
      You will be banned. They don't like the truth here.
  • tovarich-andrey.62goncharov
    tovarich-andrey.62goncharov 15 November 2020 17: 46
    -2
    "PAK FA and having received a fighter of an indistinct generation and the same characteristics at an insane price, with its analogue in the form of the PAK DA program" - is this your opinion or desire?
    1. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 15 November 2020 19: 53
      +1
      This is his desire, nothing more!
  • Pavel57
    Pavel57 15 November 2020 17: 56
    0
    Quote: Esso
    Thanks to Mikheev.

    Is this a mockery?
  • gvozdan
    gvozdan 15 November 2020 18: 03
    +2
    Why this indistinct spit from around the corner in the Su-57 at the beginning of the article ??? I wanted to say something - say it.
    1. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 15 November 2020 19: 57
      +6
      The author is not able to talk about the case, but to spit the passion as he wants ... Probably I will take control of the issues of Russophobia and lies of the VO editorial board. A couple of months ago, they hid Skomorokhov's article on Donbass on the second day. Where to write I know ...
  • APASUS
    APASUS 15 November 2020 19: 29
    +2
    Well done, they took up the Mi-14 (I wrote for a long time that it should have been done.) We also need to produce aircraft to replace the Be-12 Chaika, well, it’s very necessary!
    1. Vladimir1155
      Vladimir1155 15 November 2020 21: 44
      0
      Quote: APASUS
      It is also necessary to produce aircraft to replace the Be-12 "Chaika", well, it is very necessary!

      there is a serial be200
      1. APASUS
        APASUS 16 November 2020 21: 30
        0
        Quote: vladimir1155
        there is a serial be200

        For 20 years of production, 16 aircraft have been produced, where is the series?
        1. Vladimir1155
          Vladimir1155 16 November 2020 22: 51
          -1
          if there are more than two aircraft, then it is already a series, and 16 is quite decent for such a specific machine ... it is the most massive in the world in its class
  • exo
    exo 15 November 2020 19: 54
    +5
    The helicopter is not bad, but landing on the water was rather an exception to the rule. Then, it was necessary to thoroughly wash it with fresh water. Otherwise, the fuselage corroded quickly. Therefore, the units tried to avoid such events. This, according to a friend who served them.
    "The Americans removed the Mi-14 from the naval aviation and thereby greatly facilitated the life of their submariners." (c) - this is absolutely fantastic. The anti-submarine helicopter did not play a serious role in the confrontation between the two superpowers.
    It seems that in aviation, the time for amphibians is over. At least for the coming years.
    Although, you can find a niche for them.
    1. Avior
      Avior 16 November 2020 05: 15
      0
      For some reason, no one mentions that the Mi-14 was removed under the pretext of unification, while leaving the Ka-27 as a deck-based one.
  • Radikal
    Radikal 15 November 2020 21: 07
    -1
    Second, the Russian design school is unable to overtake those who, half a century ago, invented new models of airplanes and helicopters.
    It is not capable, not only to overtake, but also simply to catch up, or more specifically, to create something, because it simply does not exist, of this "Russian" school of aircraft construction. sad
    1. EvilLion
      EvilLion 16 November 2020 08: 06
      -1
      Take off Stalin's avatar, otherwise he will be offended.
  • Diverter
    Diverter 15 November 2020 22: 10
    +1
    I'll add my five cents. To begin with, you need to understand that the MI-14, Mi-8 (with all modifications) and the Mi-17 are essentially the same helicopter in different guises. And they are being produced to this day. The problem is only in the lower part of the Mi 14, but you can follow the path of the "wedding" technology (when large knots are connected in technology). This can be developed by modern managers, oh designers. There are no problems with the REO, PNK, BIUS systems.
  • mister-red
    mister-red 16 November 2020 00: 49
    +3
    getting burnt on the PAK FA and getting a fighter of an indistinct generation and the same characteristics at the exit for a crazy price

    You can learn more about the above, point by point:
    1. Why did you get burned?
    2. Why a vague generation?
    3. Why indistinct characteristics?
    4. Crazy price compared to what?
    Or does the author think that this is already recognized by everyone and does not need proof?
    What is the point of reading further this author, if it goes down to such a level?
    To believe that he is still an expert on helicopters? I do not believe. And I didn't read
    1. EvilLion
      EvilLion 16 November 2020 08: 06
      0
      Because it is in Skomorokhov's head.
  • Mooh
    Mooh 16 November 2020 01: 02
    +2
    It’s not that I’m the order of the argument, but I’ll express my idea. Restoring the production of Soviet designs is certainly better than buying weapons from China for petrodollars, but also a dead-end path. While we are building equipment from the 70s-80s and not very successfully copying Ukrainian turbines of Soviet design, our enemies have infinitely broken away in communication and control systems and strongly in many other directions. The only way to keep up forever is to develop and manufacture the latest systems, even if they are more expensive, less reliable and come into operation with incomplete functionality. Under the Soviet Union, this approach did not bother anyone; And we are theoreticians with SU-57 and Armata, if anything we will fight on T-72 and MiG-29. So it is possible to restore the IL-2 in production as an anti-partisan aircraft and the T-62 as an anti-Barmaley tank.
    1. EvilLion
      EvilLion 16 November 2020 07: 56
      -2
      Where did they come off, and how does the communication system compare with the Soviet T-72 from its presence? The problem of the T-72 from the presence is not communication systems, because they will fit in there perfectly, like any new electronics, the problem is just a gun, an engine, armor, if these components become outdated, then at least some systems will work out at best, a good and well-tested Pz-III with a 50 mm cannon against the T-34, which is still crude, primitive in places, but has a much more powerful gun and thicker armor.

      But just in the west there are no new tanks with more powerful guns and armor. They have not appeared in 30 years, and will not appear in the coming years.
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 16 November 2020 22: 32
        +1
        In the west, there are already new 130 mm cannons and new BOPS in service with the same Abrams and new ATGMs of the 4th and even 72th generation and kamikaze drones that tanks and all equipment are smashed into the trash, as Karabakh clearly showed us - alas, the T XNUMX is outdated both physically and morally no matter how much you upgrade it.
  • rubin6286
    rubin6286 16 November 2020 01: 27
    +1
    For a very long time, on duty, I had to fly "over all kinds of seas" and sometimes contact naval aviators. I learned from them that the Mil company made a floating modification of the Mi-70 - the Mi-8 helicopter and it is better than the Kashek in the mid-14s. The time was different then. Everything was in Soyuei, and it took at least 1,5 - 2 years from the adoption of the resolution of the Council of Ministers to the rolling out of the first copy of the new machine. Now, if Shoigu insists, production will be established, but for this, somewhere else they will "stop", because even if money is "given" for this, there is no free capacity and there is not much else for this. How many of these helicopters will be made, what is the annual need for them, etc.? Now every new Tu-160 is shown on TV, and in Soviet times they switched to new equipment in staged fashion and no one “rattled” about it. The Duma approved a new minister, who had previously headed Aeroflot. What has this airline become under him? For the most part, she, as before, "sits" on Boeing and Airbus, and we recently wrote off the last "Carcass". As for the aviation of local airlines or regional, whatever you call it: airfields and airfield facilities are outdated, there are no new domestic aircraft. “Poor” An-2 has been modernizing for three decades and everything is useless: either there are no composite materials, then there are engines ... .., and you still need pilots, technicians, service personnel, workers. Are they being prepared? Where?
    I do not touch on specific issues: avionics, digitalization, network-centric systems, not only because I understand little about this, but also because I am sure that there are also a huge variety of different problems around this. How could the IL-112 be designed for a payload of about 6 tons, so that it could actually lift only 1,5 tons? How much will the engines bring for him? There are no answers to this day.
    In my opinion, a new generation needs to build a new helicopter, at a new enterprise and in a new way in everything, and while this is not there, it is reasonable to carry out the entire range of repair and maintenance work on Soviet helicopters still available and suitable for use as intended.
    It seems to me that there is logic in this.
    1. EvilLion
      EvilLion 16 November 2020 08: 04
      -1
      For 1.5-2 years, you can make only a minor modification. Complex and fundamentally new systems were not built much faster than now, the same MiG-29 and Su-27 began in 1968, and the first flight of the MiG-29 was made in 1977 when it began to enter the troops in 1982. This is despite the fact that the Soviet army was 5 times larger and military expenditures on both sides were many times higher with significantly simpler equipment. But all you have to do is whine, even about the Su-57 being launched into production in record time.

      Nobody needs An-2 without subsidies for tickets, and where necessary, roads have long been paved.
      1. rubin6286
        rubin6286 16 November 2020 09: 09
        0
        Don't tell me about the Soviet Army, it's my dad and mom and I served in it for 25 years. There is no such thing as "unprincipled modification". Do not clog the brains of yourself and others. We at the Air Force Research Institute received MiG-29s around 1979, and in 1978 in the GSVG two regiments were already "sitting" on them. The job of the military is to master the technique in a timely manner and learn how to effectively use it on the battlefield, and not talk about military spending. The state teaches you. shoes, dresses, feeds, heals and pays wages on time. Took the oath - if you please do it! In the United States, the number of F-35 fighters will soon reach 1 vehicles, while we have only "record terms" so far. I do not know who and where laid the roads, and the An-2 is the only aircraft in Aeroflot that has paid for itself. All over the world, civil aviation cannot exist without state subsidies, everyone knows this. I have already written that a new generation needs to build new aviation equipment, at a new enterprise and in a new way in everything. It is high time to ask him for failing to meet the deadlines for the fulfillment of the state defense order and "imprison" for treason for 10 years.
        1. EvilLion
          EvilLion 16 November 2020 09: 20
          -2
          In 1982, they began to supply, and in 1978 they were already sitting in the most responsible potential theater of operations, in the zone of the highest intensity of hostile reconnaissance, already 2 regiments. What time machines were there in the USSR?

          As for the An-2 and self-sufficiency, when you go to fly from New York to Paris to see the Eiffel Tower, these are your problems, and no one will give you subsidies for this. And in general, all sorts of tourists, by definition, are solvent. But for the grandmothers who need to fly from the taiga to the city, there will be subsidies, since the grandmothers are not able to pay. So, now all the same, large planes fly, not corn workers.
          1. rubin6286
            rubin6286 17 November 2020 00: 04
            0
            When I read this comment of yours ,. it seems to me that you poorly understand what you are writing about. Now they say about such people that he is "not in the subject." What New York, Paris, "Fefeleva Tower", "grannies from the taiga", "self-sufficient tourists." What are you talking about? To begin with, you need to get a specialized economic education at Moscow State University or the Academy of Civil Aviation in Moscow. Then you will be able to operate with such concepts as direct and indirect costs, the pricing mechanism for air transport, the stimulating role of the state and its influence on airline tariffs, etc. But not everyone is allowed to go there - some are not smart enough, others cannot afford. So it turns out from them like according to Yesenin: "A man can judge for hours about the thing that sticks out between his legs." In developed countries, civil aviation is developing harmoniously, or at least strives for it. There is a place in it for main liners and for maize workers.
        2. Arthur 85
          Arthur 85 17 November 2020 14: 23
          0
          I'll put in 5 kopecks ... And what, in reality, is civil aviation in the world (where there is no air ambulance) subsidized? At horse prices for a ticket? A bad thought suggests itself: is it needed then in general?
          That is, these loafers about whom the Evil Lion wrote (i.e. tourists) fly to their Dubai partly at my expense? Then it's good that the pandemic will most likely drive tourism as an industry into the coffin.
          To take out grannies from remote villages to the city to a hospital or somewhere else, I don’t mind the money. And there is nothing to do in Dubai. I went to a sports store just now, the skis cost 3 thousand, plastic, which I never dreamed of in my childhood. Road bikes for 20 thousand ... Let them buy, wash, and go to the mountains.
  • EvilLion
    EvilLion 16 November 2020 07: 49
    0
    Skomorokhov, ay! Currently, there is no more promising fighter than the Su-57, and it has been contracted. Wake up!
    1. Vale-90
      Vale-90 16 November 2020 10: 19
      -1
      Zotyev has an interesting article on "Extreme Mechanics".
      1. EvilLion
        EvilLion 16 November 2020 11: 16
        -1
        And the Su-57 did not fly at the airshow or what? However, in the light of the existence of this article and Skomorokhov, denying reality is the mainstream.
  • Viktor Sergeev
    Viktor Sergeev 16 November 2020 08: 22
    0
    Excuse me, but who got burned there on the PAK FA and why the vague generation?
  • Pavel57
    Pavel57 16 November 2020 10: 33
    0
    Quote: Bez 310
    The question is interesting ...
    At one time, the Mi-14 was a wonderful machine, but time goes by,
    and you need to think carefully before rushing to spend money.
    What is so good about this helicopter compared to the Ka-27?
    Flight range, operating time, combat load. Landing on water
    I do not consider it, in anti-submarine business this is not the main thing. What
    badly? Impossibility of basing on ships.
    What's so bad about both helicopters? Obsolete anti-submarine
    complex. Do we have a new anti-submarine complex that
    could be stuck into the old MI-14 building? I have not heard of this ...
    I think that this is exactly where we need to start, with a new complex
    search for submarines, based not only on GAS and RSL.
    In general, the issue of upgrading the Mi-14 should be returned only after
    how we will have a new submarine search complex. And the alteration of the cabins
    "from clocks to monitors", without solving the main problem, I consider it simple
    a waste of money and time.

    Ы
    Quote: BoA KAA
    No, this is for yourself, loved ones, costs. And the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation will be sold at market value, well, that way for 18-20 lemons, so that there is a fat gain and not offend yourself. (By the way, the normal "restaurant" practice is a 30% mark-up!)

    There are limits on the rate of return for military products.
  • Lptsk
    Lptsk 16 November 2020 13: 37
    0
    Quote: nespich
    if it was so simple then why did Russia buy these engines for so long hostile Ukraine? We could have started producing in St. Petersburg right away in the 90s ... But no, we supported the hostile state with our purchases until the last (2014)!

    Friend. Do you understand what it means to produce? Shoulder blades, etc.
  • Radikal
    Radikal 16 November 2020 14: 52
    +1
    Quote: EvilLion
    Take off Stalin's avatar, otherwise he will be offended.

    Why on earth? lol bully
  • Nikolay R-PM
    Nikolay R-PM 16 November 2020 15: 24
    +2
    just as in the past, the mi-14 gave its main gearbox for the mi-8mt, so the current developments on the engines and bearing systems of the new mt-shek can be used to improve the flight characteristics of the machine.
    in my opinion, you are all seething with the mi-14 comes from the fact that the KUMAPP is experiencing great difficulties of an economic nature and is not ready for a full resumption of production of anti-submarine ka-27, but it can serially modernize the available ka-27, which, by the way, according to military balance 2020: ka27pl - 41, ka27m-22.
    in this vein, a more prosperous, albeit not a problem-free KHZ, with the resumption of production of mi14, taking into account the extreme developments in the G2020, can provide not only the maintenance of the capabilities of naval aviation in the near sea zone, but also some strengthening of the existing group. according to millitary balance 14, the same mi20pl-14, mi40ps-XNUMX.
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  • Ratmir_Ryazan
    Ratmir_Ryazan 16 November 2020 17: 42
    0
    PAK-DA and Tu-160 are different types of bombers!

    PAK-DA will be subsonic and inconspicuous and it is going to replace the Tu-22 and Tu-95. And work is underway on it and no one is going to abandon it.

    And the Tu-160 is a powerful supersonic strategic bomber. Its advantage is speed and range, and it is needed in the troops along with the stealthy and more economical PAK-DA.

    And they also make a new helicopter, "Lamprey" and he has to sit on which deck. We already have corvettes and frigates that can carry one helicopter, two helicopter carriers are under construction.

    And the Mi-14 is good for operations from the coast, which is why Poland uses it, because it does not have a fleet as such.

    But I agree that a helicopter capable of landing on water with a range of 1000 km would be useful for both the fleet and rescuers.