In the Chinese Sohu about the downed Russian Mi-24: "Any soldier from the calculation of air defense systems would have done the same."

In the military-thematic section of the Chinese information portal Sohu, a material has been published that is devoted to the strike inflicted on a Russian Aerospace Forces helicopter while it is in the airspace of the Republic of Armenia. Then, as a result of a strike with the use of MANPADS, two Russian servicemen were killed, one was injured. The Azerbaijani side literally in a few hours took responsibility for this situation, stating that the strike on the Mi-24 was wrongly inflicted.

The day before, Azerbaijani Ambassador to Russia Polad Bulbul-oglu made a statement that was criticized not only in Moscow, but also in Baku. According to the Azerbaijani ambassador, "war is like a war."

On the pages of a Chinese resource, the author writes that "the strike by an Azerbaijani air defense crew is understandable." In fact, in this regard, the author "keeps pace" with Polad Bulbul-oglu, trying to declare that the Azerbaijani military are guilty, but still "other culprits" can be found.

From Sohu Material:

Objectively speaking, the Russian side had to notify the Azerbaijani army when moving along the border with Azerbaijan at sensitive moments in order to avoid misunderstandings. And thus she (Russia) should also be held responsible for this incident.

Further, the author writes on a Chinese resource that Azerbaijan declares an ongoing investigation and readiness to punish those responsible. That being said, the author Sohu adds:

But any soldier from the calculation of the air defense system would have done the same.

"The same" is how? Any soldier in China would start shooting at a helicopter if it was in the airspace of a neighboring state? .. And, it turns out, by the same logic, any soldier of a state adjacent to the PRC can strike aviation, which is in the airspace of the PRC?

Thus, Sohu is trying to shift the responsibility, as they say, from a sore head to a healthy one.

Comments

[Anatoly 288]

It turns out that the Indians can shoot down Chinese helicopters ?!

[Lech from Android.]

They cannot, they now have fistfights on the border in high esteem. In general, this Chinese edition sometimes carries such nonsense, inevitably you think they have Jennifer Psaki as editor there.

[hydrox]

Quote: Lech from Android.

Jennifer Psaki works there as editor.

Great point!
This editor, hey, has not left the covidle yet (and I want to eat - these are the materials that it misses (or maybe it has some kind of grant for it)).
But in fact: for the past six months, China has been pouring such shit on Russia through this portal that one has only to wonder whether China (or the Sokhu portal) is our situational ally or is it more like today's Armenia in relation to Russia (sort of more make money on different vectors)?

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: hydrox

is China (or Sokhu portal) our situational ally

Well, like bae,
plow is a Chinese edition and it owes nothing to Russia. He has to promote Chinese interests, whether we like it or not.

[Killemall]

I didn't understand ... but what are the interests of China, following the logic of your message? justify the destruction of anything on the adjacent territory? ... it's actually Casus belli. And rightly so hydrox asks the question: what is this Soku and what are they even thinking? and given that China does not have such nonsense as "free press", this leads to the second question: what is China for us?

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: KilleMall

c: what is China for us?

China is a neighbor for us, which is not obliged to have an opinion exactly the same as ours.
Again, what some here call mudslinging can be constructive criticism from the Chinese point of view, or even harmless remark.

Quote: KilleMall

the destruction of anything in the adjacent territory? ... this is actually Casus belli.

A reason for war? When is the war already going on?
A Russian helicopter was shot down by one belligerent in the territory of another belligerent.
It would be more reasonable to ask how he ended up there. And why no measures were taken to prevent this from happening. What, in fact, the Chinese recalled.

[hydrox]

Apparently, this is an army helicopter from our base, which was accompanying a military convoy, most likely delivering ammunition ships (and weapons) to Karabakh.
All this was a hundred kilometers from the battlefield and most likely the Azeri made a competent ambush, which was waiting for this particular column.
And naturally, it was the turntable that was removed first: they work normally, of course - then you could do anything with the defenseless column ... Most likely, the convoy was driven into the territory of Azeria.
Have you noticed that not half a word was said about the contents of the cargo of this column and its further fate?

[Alexander Kopychev]

What ammunition? The terms of surrender were being discussed at this time!

[krot]

had to notify the Azerbaijani army when moving along the border with Azerbaijan

In my opinion, we do not owe anything to anyone there! And they could "zhahnut" at the place of the launch of the rocket so that it would not seem a little.

[blackcat]

And they should have zhahnut, but along the way we punish the Armenians for disobedience and multi-vector policy, therefore we tolerate

[Star Troopers]

There are simply no words, from such a brazen LIE.

[Killemall]

A Russian helicopter was shot down by one belligerent in the territory of another belligerent.

Yah...? It looks like you have some kind of mess, sorry ... Armenia did not participate in the war (as well as Turkey) ... as far as I know ... there were no hostilities on the territory of Armenia. And if they were conducted, I think, they would be conducted in the Baku region ... and not Shushi. And about China, you apparently did not understand ... a neighbor is not a neighbor, what's the difference, how can you say that all the rules, when the situation is essentially casus belli ... you cannot justify an attack on the adjacent territory of a country that is not at war with you.

It would be more reasonable to ask how he ended up there at all

... as I understand it trolling? otherwise it is not clear to me ... you understand that the helicopter was over the territory of a sovereign state in the sovereign airspace of a country NOT PARTICIPATING in the conflict. HE HAD FULL RIGHT THERE IS!

[sp77ark]

This is your porridge, sorry. At the beginning of the conflict, Armenia launched a missile attack on Nakhichevan. And suspicious activity near the border provoked a backlash. For your information, Mi-24s are in service with the Armenian Air Force. Russia had nothing to do there.

[Killemall]

one should answer for the porridge ...

The Ordubad region of the Nakhichevan Autonomous Republic of Azerbaijan, which is cut off from the main territory of the country by a strip of Armenian territory, came under fire from a tactical missile of the Armenian armed forces from the territory of Nagorno-Karabakh, the press service of the Azerbaijani Defense Ministry reported.

https://www.vedomosti.ru/politics/news/2020/10/16/843549-azerbaidzhan-zayavil-ob-obstrele-armeniei-nahichevani
here is what I found ... give a link to a RELIABLE source that it was EXACTLY from the Armenian territory that the blow was struck?

[Star Troopers]

Can I have a PROOF? The reaction, and what next, it gives the right to shoot down and kill? Hello VASYA! Wake up

[orionvitt]

Quote: Jacket in stock

A Russian helicopter was shot down by one belligerent in the territory of another belligerent.

First, read the question, and then you will write nonsense. Officially, no one attacked Armenia, and no one declared war on Armenia. The question was exclusively about the military actions of Azerbaijan in Nagorno-Karabakh and against the armed forces of the same Karabakh. Which by the way, Armenia itself did not recognize. The downing of a Russian helicopter over the territory of a foreign state, from the adjacent territory, is a one hundred percent "casus belli". Why Aliyev stumbled and ran to apologize.

[Aag]

Quote: KilleMall

I didn't understand ... but what are the interests of China, following the logic of your message? justify the destruction of anything on the adjacent territory? ... it's actually Casus belli. And rightly so hydrox asks the question: what is this Soku and what are they even thinking? and given that China does not have such nonsense as "free press", this leads to the second question: what is China for us?

Feel the reaction. Assess ...

[Nikolay1987]

Yeah, the edition is good, the workers are bad

[The popuas]

Well, yes ... it's like with a weapon ... it doesn't kill people ...

[Hypertension]

Quote: Anatoly 288

It turns out that the Indians can shoot down Chinese helicopters ?!

Quote: Lech from Android.

They cannot, they now have fistfights on the border in high esteem.

Hindus can shoot down with bare hands. Watch their films - what they do there.

[Krasnodar]

Quote: Hyperion

Quote: Anatoly 288

It turns out that the Indians can shoot down Chinese helicopters ?!

Quote: Lech from Android.

They cannot, they now have fistfights on the border in high esteem.

Hindus can shoot down with bare hands. Watch their films - what they do there.

With these people, China will not pull the war

[abrakadabre]

Chinese kung fu is no worse. Neither pretentiousness nor lethality.

[madrobot]

Sohu is not really an "edition". This is an aggregator similar to Yandex Zen. There is no responsible editor there, or even just a release. There, any shit can slip through (yes, it does it all the time, by the way).

[Essex62]

If only that idiot knew how he was discussed at the authoritative Russian VO forum?

[Trapp1st]

It turns out that the Indians can shoot down Chinese helicopters ?!

Yes, it looks like the Indian military has a note.

[Stas157]

Would any soldier in China shoot at a helicopter if it was in the airspace of a neighboring state?

Sure. In case China was fighting with this state. By the way, this is what Sokhu writes about.

But, indeed, how could Azeybarjan know that it was a Russian helicopter that was flying there, after all, the gunner was not hitting Russian territory at all?

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: Anatoly 288

It turns out that the Indians can shoot down Chinese helicopters ?!

If, for example, India starts a war with Pakistan again, and suddenly a Chinese helicopter flies from the territory of Pakistan towards the border without warning or agreement, then yes, the Indians can shoot it down.

[Labrador]

it turns out, according to the same logic, any soldier of a state adjacent to the PRC can strike at an aircraft that is located in the airspace of the PRC?

Indians can shoot down Chinese helicopters ?!

No need to pull the ears and talk nonsense: the helicopter was not in the airspace of Russia!

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: Anatoly 288

It turns out that the Indians can shoot down Chinese helicopters ?!

Quote: Lech from Android.

against your will you think Jennifer Psaki works there as editor.

But any soldier from the calculation of an air defense system would have done the same ...
"The same" is how? Would any soldier in China shoot at a helicopter if it was in the airspace of a neighboring state?

Whose cow mooed, and Chinese Sohu would be silent. We, those who saw the "famous Chinese warnings" during our lifetime remember how "any Chinese soldier" (and not only a soldier) spread his legs shoulder-width apart and thrust his tongue into ... So they thrust it in, but I hate to remember it and it's indecent to talk about it ...
Let me remind those who did not know or have forgotten:

 Show / Hide text

"The last Chinese warning" is an allegorical idiom in Russian, meaning fruitless threats "in words", while it is known that no action will follow in the near future.
The expression arose in connection with the aggravation of US-China relations in the 1950s and 1960s, concerning the so-called Taiwan issue. The first warning was issued by China on September 7, 1958 [(during this period the second Taiwan crisis occurred). The United States, not recognizing the communist rule in China (but recognizing the Chiang Kai-shek regime), carried out reconnaissance flights over the territorial waters of China. The People's Republic of China recorded all violations of its air and water space by the United States. For each such violation, the PRC government sent a so-called "warning" to the American side through diplomatic channels, but did not take any action. All of these warnings were numbered. Since in those years violations by the United States of the Chinese air and water space, especially in the Taiwan Strait, were not uncommon, the numbering of warnings went off scale for many hundreds. The exact number of warnings China has issued is difficult to estimate. It is known that by the end of 1964 alone there were more than 900

And now they dared to tell others what to do in one case or another.

[venik]

Quote: Anatoly 288

It turns out that the Indians can shoot down Chinese helicopters ?!

=======
It turns out that the Chinese are the same "friends" for us as the Turks and so on. ..... So - "temporary companions"... to which your back better not to turn!
PS Waiting for the "swarm" of "flying slippers"! .........

[anjey]

There may be accidental and erroneous descent of NURs from the turntable at the Iizer checkpoint, in war as in war, said Bul-Bul. The Turks seem to be already familiar with these statements in practice.

[Pereira]

Will not. Worn again. We are waiting for spitting from Estonia.

[anjey]

Come on, more than a dozen Turks fell under our batches in Syria, I think we took revenge there and will take revenge now politely and in full. Let Namiks not relax.

[Roman070280]

The Turks seem to be already familiar with these statements in practice laughing

In practice, the Turks are familiar with the fact that if by mistake they shoot down something Russian, they will still get nothing for it ..
When a boy can't fight back, they kick him even more often.

[Pete mitchell]

Quote: anjey

There may be accidental and erroneous descent of NURs from the turntable at the Iizer checkpoint, in war as in war, said Bul-Bul

Now, if that happened, we would apologize to each other and disperse, but we have what we have. Those who planned this flight would break their fingers, the guys cannot be returned ...

[hydrox]

Don't tell!
This is not an accidental launch, but a well-prepared sabotage with the organization of an ambush, and not less than 100 km from the battlefield.
But Aliyev did not know that by his (Turkish ??) sabotage he was pulling Russia out of deep (oh!) And turning our defeat into some kind of victory, otherwise there would have been a massacre in the NGO, and our base would never have been! And half a day remained before the massacre, for the Armenians had already fled ...

[Pete mitchell]

Quote: hydrox

Don't tell ...

Translated into an understandable language: unfortunately, the reality is that the death of the guys turned into a political bargaining plane.

[hydrox]

Yes, unfortunately it is ...
In our situation, at least a little consolation can only be that the compensation will be gigantic and that the bill will necessarily include the construction of a memorial in Stepanakert as a symbol of the averted massacre.

[Pete mitchell]

Quote: hydrox

In our situation, at least a little consolation is that the compensation will be gigantic and ...

That's what the countries will agree among themselves, I'm sure, and the rest - your words to God in the ears

[Note]

Well, is it really not clear until now that this is not Azerbaijan, not Armenia, or even Turkey?

[Olgovich]

Quote: anjey

, said Bulbul

And why is this Bul-Bul still not banished?

[Roman070280]

And why is this Bul-Bul still not banished?

I should ask Putin about this ..))
But he doesn't even know his salary.

[hydrox]

But for some reason, random launches from MANPADS do not happen ...

[Cympak]

Pay no attention, these are the same journalists, only the Chinese spill

[Hunter 2]

Well, why do we need to know the Opinion of the Chinese equivalent of Zen?

[Lynx2000]

Quote: Hunter 2

Well, why do we need to know the Opinion of the Chinese equivalent of Zen?

Usually the opinions of "officials" are brought up (thrown in) through, to put it mildly, not authoritative media,
before it was done through jesters.

But any soldier from the calculation of the air defense system would have done the same.

Author's question:

"The same" is how? Any soldier in China would start shooting at a helicopter if it was in the airspace of a neighboring state? .. And, it turns out, by the same logic, any soldier of a state adjacent to the PRC can strike at an aircraft located in the airspace of the PRC ?

The army in which the soldiers do this is called the Makhnovshchina.
Therefore, during the investigation, they begin to establish who commanded the MANPADS operator, who gave the command. Why the decision was made to hit the air target. Otherwise, it will turn out like in the Wild West, shoot at everything that moves, and where something rustles and crawls.
Earlier I wrote that the operator and the observation point operate in the area of ​​visual contact with the target, but the target data must be transmitted from the tracking station. In addition, the command must assess the situation, whether there is a threat from this air target.
Regarding the notifications from the Russian side of the Azerbaijani Ministry of Defense about carrying out flights on the territory of Armenia in close proximity to the state border, it should be clarified whether there are agreements between the parties on the procedure for such interaction.

For the Chinese: everyone imagines himself to be a strategist, seeing the battle from the side.

[Polite Moose]

Quote: Lynx2000

For the Chinese: everyone imagines himself to be a strategist, seeing the battle from the side.

From the Chinese: When a lion and a tiger fight, a wise monkey watches the fight from a tree. And who is she after that in your opinion?
PS And there there are about 500 million such "strategists".

[41 REGION]

Quote: Polite Elk

a wise monkey watches the fight from a tree. And who is she after that in your opinion?

It's just that the monkey stops hiding his feelings

[Lynx2000]

Quote: Polite Moose

From the Chinese: When a lion and a tiger fight, a wise monkey watches the fight from a tree. And who is she after that in your opinion?

"Wise monkey", when the tiger is done with the lion, or vice versa, she should look around,
will it not turn out that she is sitting on a lonely, low tree ...

Quote: Polite Moose

PS And there there are about 500 million such "strategists".

In this case, there is a saying about a herd of sheep, lions, ram and lion.

[Polite Moose]

Quote: Lynx2000

In this case, there is a saying about a herd of sheep, lions, ram and lion.

How do all these animals sit on the banks of the river and wait for the swimming (or swimming) of the enemy corpse?

[Lynx2000]

Quote: Polite Moose

How do all these animals sit on the banks of the river and wait for the swimming (or swimming) of the enemy corpse?

Why did the Chinese commentary on the incident with our Mi-24 "hook" me? Well, I don’t consider China to be our ally or, at worst, a "strategic partner."
China itself, like that monkey, borders on states that are clearly not good-neighborly, has mutual territorial and historical claims.
A large number of weapons and personnel is not yet the main sign of military superiority and a guarantee of future victories.
Over the past 50-100 years, I don’t remember Chinese commanders who would have conducted successful offensive / defensive (operational or strategic) operations, moreover, to be studied in military academies of other countries.
I foresee statements about Peng Dehuai.

Therefore, although China is the forge and granary of the Western world, it is not their friend. Except for Russia, no one will say a good word for China at present.

[Polite Moose]

Quote: Lynx2000

Why did the Chinese commentary on the incident with our Mi-24 "hook" me?

As a matter of fact, I also wrote that they had such "strategists" there that they were monkeys. And everyone is looking from the tree. And then "expert" articles are written. Especially active in their "yellow" press (pun, however, turned out).

[Lynx2000]

Quote: Polite Moose

As a matter of fact, I also wrote that they had such "strategists" there that they were monkeys. And everyone is looking from the tree. And then "expert" articles are written. Especially active in their "yellow" press (pun, however, turned out).

I agree.

[Aag]

Quote: Hunter 2

Well, why do we need to know the Opinion of the Chinese equivalent of Zen?

To know what topic they are probing.

[Proton]

I disagree with the author of the article.
If two countries are in a state of war, then to strike from the territory of their own country at the enemy, wherever he is - a common thing. After all, the manager of MANPADS might not know about the nationality of the helicopter. Armenia and Azerbaijan were de facto at war.
Another thing is that we need to figure out what it was with our MI-24 - either really a mistake, or a planned provocation.

[Zaurbek]

Any follower had to bang at the place of launch ..... and the chief who planned the passage of the column should think about it. Or to warn or strengthen security. And in both cases, hit the unit.

[prior]

Well. Who hasn't spat in the direction of Russia yet?
Who hasn't kicked the "half dead lion" yet?

Expressed concern with "tomatoes". Even the Chinese already believe that Russian helicopters flying over their own or allied territory are a normal thing to shoot down! Killing ambassadors is a matter of course.
They sailed. It remains only to take the appropriate pose.

[Interlocutor]

They sailed. It remains only to take the appropriate pose.

Well, take it

[prior]

It is not worth my indignation at the venality, unprincipledness and forgiveness of our people in power, to take it as my agreement with their actions and decisions.
And advice about posture speaks of your willingness to accept it.

[Interlocutor]

And advice about posture speaks of your willingness to accept it.

What a highly veiled nonsense you are talking about.
The ambassadors were beaten, beaten and will be beaten. History is an example of this. And everyone swallows ...
Bringing special forces (Iranians-Americans) to their knees is easy. And they swallowed it.
For starting a war is not that easy, but possible, but getting out is more difficult and costly.
You wanted the result. Here is the result - 1960 people in Karabakh without a single shot, and everything went to the shops, and the whole world howled - the Russians did everything again ...

[Woodman]

"The same" is how? Any soldier in China would shoot at a helicopter if it was in the airspace of a neighboring state? ..

Maybe / can't this is an interesting question. De facto there was a war going on there. China is not at war. And if he was and knocked down - he would be in his own right. Again, if it weren't for a third-party helicopter. This time. The fact that Azerbaijan took the blame upon itself, and accepted it almost instantly, without trying to justify itself, suggests that the Turks or their proxies could have shot down the helicopter. In order to disrupt the entry of peacekeepers and freeze the conflict. These are two.
The Chinese author does not voice this version. Or a translation of this version has not been provided for our review.
So, in my opinion, the author of the article on VO distorts with the conclusion. Or just trying to direct the discussion of this tragedy in a certain direction ...

[Aag]

"... the Turks or their proxies could have brought down the helicopter. In order to disrupt the entry of peacekeepers and freeze the conflict. ..."
Isn't it the other way around ?!
The destruction of the aircraft was a pretext for activating the actions of the Russian Federation. The Turks were not interested in this, - they already had everything looming ...
And try to trace the chronology of events ...

[Tank hard]

On the pages of a Chinese resource, the author writes that "the strike by an Azerbaijani air defense crew is understandable." In fact, in this regard, the author "keeps pace" with Polad Bulbul-oglu, trying to declare that the Azerbaijani military are guilty, but still "other culprits" can be found

For supporters of allied relations with China, note.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Tank Hard

On the pages of a Chinese resource, the author writes that "the strike by an Azerbaijani air defense crew is understandable." In fact, in this regard, the author "keeps pace" with Polad Bulbul-oglu, trying to declare that the Azerbaijani military are guilty, but still "other culprits" can be found

For supporters of allied relations with China, note.

Sokhu is not a source of reliable information.
This resource is the same as National Interest, the same as this forum and news feed.

Yellow, no yellower.
All three sources reprint individual posts of individuals in any discussion, presenting it as news from the state.

[Jacket in stock]

"The same" is how? Any soldier in China would shoot at a helicopter if it was in the airspace of a neighboring state? ..

if China were at war with this neighboring state, then yes.
The Chinese are right, and the former poet / singer is also right.
It is necessary to warn, and to make sure that the warning is correctly received.
Any fighter, if they gave him a "gun", put him on the mountain and said - "there are enemies, you will see that they are flying towards you, kill", had to shoot down the turntable without waiting for it to arrive and kill him. And he is not obliged to know that the bosses there agreed on something. It was his superiors who had to tell him that it was not enemies who were flying and that they did not need to be killed. It is these bosses that need to be punished. And ours too, who did not bother to agree and check everything.

[Note]

Any fighter, at night in the mountains with a manned air defense system! On the site. The helicopter is waiting. Away from the front line. Without radar ?! Just think a little. Well, who could?

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: Note

Any fighter, at night in the mountains with a manned air defense system! On the site. The helicopter is waiting. Away from the front line. Without radar ?! Just think a little.

Thought.
I came up with something like this.
Border. On the other side is the country with which there is a war. Somewhere not far, on the other side, there is a road suitable for the passage of armored vehicles.
Those. we have a threatened area that must be heavily guarded.
What are we doing ? - we set up posts with machine guns, ATGMs, MANPADS and tell the soldiers to keep watch and not let anyone close.
What does a fighter do? He hears an approaching helicopter. Whose? Of course, the armed forces of the country with which there is a war. What should he do? Shoot from the weapon entrusted to him with the aim of preventing attacks.

[Note]

The fact is that it is not easy to capture a target from MANPADS. And it's very difficult at night. Especially low. Especially in the mountains. These are seconds. With a sudden exit to the calculation. If the target is being led, then with the help of inquiries to the control centers and decision-making, they clarify the possibility of opening fire. Including to prevent the defeat of their own or third forces, despite the fact that there is a front line and there is a saturation of the line with various air defense systems. Here there was nothing along the entire route of the column and suddenly one shot. At the same time, at the time of the departure of the column about 24 hours before that, its passage had already been agreed with all parties to the conflict. And after that it is duplicated. Not once. And the place and time are indicated. The column did not return fire. I did not ask for air support. There was no fire on the column. (This is if you follow your idea of ​​saturating ATGM and MANPADS with posts, as well as other means and forces of a section of border terrain. And a command error)

[Peter rybak]

Quote: Jacket in stock

Quote: Note

Any fighter, at night in the mountains with a manned air defense system! On the site. The helicopter is waiting. Away from the front line. Without radar ?! Just think a little.

Thought.
I came up with something like this.
Border. On the other side is the country with which there is a war. Somewhere not far, on the other side, there is a road suitable for the passage of armored vehicles.
Those. we have a threatened area that must be heavily guarded.
What are we doing ? - we set up posts with machine guns, ATGMs, MANPADS and tell the soldiers to keep watch and not let anyone close.
What does a fighter do? He hears an approaching helicopter. Whose? Of course, the armed forces of the country with which there is a war. What should he do? Shoot from the weapon entrusted to him with the aim of preventing attacks.

Add to this a warning from the authorities, they say, the top is preparing for a serious agreement, up to the surrender of Armenia. Provocations from Armenia are possible, so be on your guard. Here we are on the alert and become.

[echo]

i believe that writer analyst had been on the booze all night when he wrote this article or it means Chinese soldiers are just amateurs imho

[Tank hard]

Quote: eco

i believe that writer analyst had been on the booze all night when he wrote this article or it means Chinese soldiers are just amateurs imho

I don’t think he was drinking all night or the Chinese military laymen, this is just such an attitude towards Russia. Who likes it or not.

[Note]

That's right

[open]

Means further from the Chinese borders

[Nikolaevich I]

And also ... the Chinese, like the Azerbaijanis, have heard anything about "friend or foe" identification systems ... especially in air defense?

[tralflot1832]

They didn’t think about it. Hindus can do it too, and God himself ordered the descendants of Chiang Kai-shek.

[Incvizitor]

Any self-respecting country demanded extradition and would judge those who did this.

[Archivist Vasya]

Objectively speaking, the Russian side had to notify the Azerbaijani army when moving along the border with Azerbaijan at sensitive moments in order to avoid misunderstandings. And thus she (Russia) should also be held responsible for this incident.

Indeed, it would be better to be notified in advance, especially since the border of 1 km passes in total, and these 2 countries are actually in a state of war - this is the first.
And second: it is not Russia that is to blame, but the officer who gave the order to accompany the convoy with one helicopter, leaving him without a chance to survive in the event of an attack with MANPADS. Apparently it was an old Mi-24 without any means of protection, even without heat traps.

[Paragraph Epitafievich Y.]

VO should not stoop to discussing the delirium of the Chinese double of Yandex-Zen)

[Tank hard]

Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.

VO should not stoop to discussing the delirium of the Chinese double of Yandex-Zen)

Why not? Or do you think that the opinion of official China is very different from the opus of this hack? I don't think so. After all, there are a number of supporters of friendship with China. Let the people respect the opinion of the Chinese side. In general, one must look at the world with wide open eyes.

[iouris]

The sympathies of the Chinese edition are on the side of the Turkish project. Silk Road?

[Asad]

Most likely, I think transit through Azerbaijan with Turkey is not a bad option for the "allies"

[Horon]

The author throws some firewood? And if you remember that there is an article for calling for war? The unnamed Armenian is again trying to compare thick with soft and explain why Russia urgently needs to attack Azerbaijan.
Now agitators will run for the "punishment" of Azerbaijan.

[Note]

What is China now? Most of the characters, guests of this resource, do not even have a close idea of ​​those moods that now prevail in the minds of ordinary people from the PRC. Having had some experience of communicating with the citizens of a given country, I can characterize some features of the thinking and way of acting of the majority of citizens. The period of 1937-1940 in Europe, (Germany) and probably 1938-1939, (USSR) if combined, is the most similar. And at the same time, take into account the peculiarities of the population and financial capabilities. And besides, the features of the eastern mentality. There is no respect for friendship or even fear of Russia. There is a clean calculation and waiting when it will be possible .. That's it.

[Old26]

On the pages of a Chinese resource, the author writes that "the strike by an Azerbaijani air defense crew is understandable." In fact, in this regard, the author "keeps pace" with Polad Bulbul-oglu, trying to declare that the Azerbaijani military are guilty, but still "other culprits" can be found.

Well, in principle, right. You can, of course, make the calculation extreme and say that they and only they are to blame for this tragedy. And you can figure out who is really to blame for this. Our side, Armenian or exclusively Azerbaijani. There was a tragedy. Accident or malicious intent - this must be answered by the competent authorities.
But still, this is more like a tragic accident, IMHO. There are questions that have not yet been answered.
1. Why was there one helicopter and not a couple, as is usually the case.
2. What did he do over the column, what functions did he perform. At night and alone
3. Why was the landing of the peacekeepers in Yerevan, from where the columns had to overcome
more than 200 km to the point of concentration. Moreover, the route runs at a distance of 0,8-1,0 km from the border with Azerbaijan, and although there were no intense battles there, the Nakhchivan region was shelled with "points" from the territory of Azerbaijan. That is, the column was led on the line of contact of two warring forces at night. What smart guy did this with his pumpkin? That, it was impossible to carry out the landing of the peacekeeping brigade at the airfields of Azerbaijan, of which there are much more in that area
4. If everything was already "on the ointment", then why did the air traffic control of Armenia not give information to the Azerbaijani side about the helicopter flight within a pistol shot from the contact line ...
5. Who even planned this tragic flight of the turntable? If it was believed that this is a war zone, then why did the helicopter not shoot traps in this zone ...
Surely the specialists will be able to ask more questions, these questions are the questions of the delitant

Now about the deliberate or not deliberate launch of MANPADS at the helicopter. To do this, it is enough to put yourself in the shoes of those guys who were sitting with MANPADS. A few hundred meters from you the territory of your enemy, with whom you are fighting. Night. The rumble of numerous engines gradually grows and an ANO of a helicopter going at low altitude is visible. And perhaps not only the ANO, but the helicopter also illuminated the track with headlights (as an option). They are going (helicopter and equipment) directly at you (there the track makes a turn in the direction along the border almost at a distance of 500 meters from the border. as in the daytime, it’s not there, it’s impossible to say where the helicopter is at a given time: over the territory of Armenia or has already invaded the airspace of Azerbaijan. Moreover, Russian helicopters have never flown there. Whose, according to the calculation, this helicopter could be “Only Armenian means the enemy.
So, with a greater degree of probability, a tragic accident occurred, as a result of which two of our pilots died. And then conspiracy theories began: they covered Turkey, which specially shot down a helicopter. At the same time, not even taking into account the fact that the wreckage of the rocket ended up in our hands and it is not difficult to establish their ownership, down to which unit were missiles with such a number.

Quote: Olgovich

And why is this Bul-Bul still not banished?

And why should the ambassador of a friendly state be expelled? For not liking Olgovich?

Quote: Zaurbek

Any follower had to bang at the place of launch ..... and the chief who planned the passage of the column should think about it. Or to warn or strengthen security. And in both cases, hit the unit.

Apparently the helicopter was singular. And many should have thought there

[Note]

How so. It seems that there are glimpses of understanding in the comments, but no conclusion was drawn. Well, where does the calculation of MANPADS come from? Well, it is MANPADS, and not other air defense systems. Well, who was capable of such a step? Show everyone why it will now be so. And with the consent of all parties. And the instant recognition of Azerbaijan in a mistake.

[SovAr238A]

"The same" is how? Any soldier in China would start shooting at a helicopter if it was in the airspace of a neighboring state? .. And, it turns out, by the same logic, any soldier of a state adjacent to the PRC can strike at an aircraft located in the airspace of the PRC ?

Actually, during the war, this is what happens ...
In territories less than 5 km from the conflict zone, the war is going on everywhere.

And it is foolish to think otherwise.

The author of the news is simply ridiculous as it looks with his question. Like those heroes of anecdotes: "And what about us?" ...

[Old26]

Quote: Note

How so. It seems that there are glimpses of understanding in the comments, but no conclusion was drawn. Well, where does the calculation of MANPADS come from? Well, it is MANPADS, and not other air defense systems. Well, who was capable of such a step? Show everyone why it will now be so. And with the consent of all parties. And the instant recognition of Azerbaijan in a mistake.

Igor! This area is the contact line of two warring states. The statement that Armenia did not fight is in favor of the poor. From the territory of Armenia, it was precisely on the territory of Nakhichevan (Azerbaijan) that the "Tochki" strike was struck. And at least ONE of the launchers of the Tochka TV and Radio Company was destroyed by the Azerbaijanis with their loitering ammunition. This is, so to speak, a preface. Do you seriously think that the contact line, 250 km long, was absolutely unprotected? Perhaps there were no company-level units or BTGs there, but some strong points with MANPADS, ATGMs and mortars were for sure. Therefore, I personally am not surprised at the presence of MANPADS calculation there. Moreover, the route runs along the border at a distance of about 30 km. Then it goes deep into the territory of Armenia. Perhaps there were more serious air defense systems, but not necessarily that in this particular place. Or maybe in this place. But the helicopter was flying at a low altitude below the radar view level, so in this case it was only possible to shoot MANPADS

[Note]

The fact is that it is not easy to capture a target from MANPADS. And it's very difficult at night. Especially low. Especially in the mountains. These are seconds. With a sudden exit to the calculation. If the target is being led, then with the help of inquiries to the control centers and decision-making, they clarify the possibility of opening fire. Including to prevent the defeat of their own or third forces, despite the fact that there is a front line and there is a saturation of the line with various air defense systems. Here there was nothing along the entire route of the column and suddenly one shot. At the same time, at the time of the departure of the column about 24 hours before that, its passage had already been agreed with all parties to the conflict. And after that it is duplicated. Not once. And the place and time are indicated. The column did not return fire. I did not ask for air support. There was no fire on the column. (This is if you follow your idea of ​​saturating ATGM and MANPADS with posts, as well as other means and forces of a section of border terrain. And a command error)

[Note]

The connection between the helicopter and the column is permanent. Rocket launch is noticeable. There are people designated as observers for the air situation during the passage of the column. Helicopter pilots are well aware of the capabilities of various air defense systems, including portable ones. The tactics of flight in the area of ​​possible fire has its own characteristics, including the shooting of thermal targets. And the positioning of the fuselage in the direction of the most likely defeat. The capabilities of MANPADS to defeat such a target are much less, even compared to a combat aircraft. (Two spaced enclosed engines). Have you seen the video? There are not MANPADS at all and the most difficult thing, according to Aliyev's immediate recognition. He just picked up the phone, dialed the headquarters in Nakhichevan and asked who fired at the Russian helicopter? And before that, Putin called him and asked who shot down the helicopter? And the report on the helicopter came immediately. And the peacekeeping mission immediately began. And everything is straight in a matter of hours. Simple and understandable for the layman, so that he does not strain his brains. Politics is a spectacle for the people. But the scenery is our lives and destinies.

[APASUS]

The problem is not who shot down, but what shot down! This, I understand, is carefully hidden by Azerbaijan. What kind of complex was possibly transferred by Turkey and who was sitting at the control panel? It is clear that this information will cause a scandal, and in Baku they preferred to admit their guilt, to slowly withdraw the participants from the game.
Shot down not with manual MANPADS, something very serious

[Azimuth]

An article designed for the layman, explains everything on the fingers and how it is. In short, the water is washed, the sky is blue.
There is nothing contradictory there. There are simply moments that we do not want to accept, because our own, dear.

[SPQR]

Comrades, please explain to me why the Sparka (wingman) did not strike at the launch site of MANPADS ?!

[kamakama]

If you follow the strict letter of the law, then yes, an attack on the territory of another state and all that jazz. And if you follow common sense -
1) Why was the movement not reported? Are there really no communication channels between Azerbaijan and Russia? After all, whatever one may say, Russia did not indicate its intervention in any way, and it is logical that notification of passes and spans is quite logical and possible (as the example of Syria shows us)
2) Who chose the time in the middle of the night, when no visual identification marks are visible from the air or from the ground? I doubt that all of them were in blackout mode, that is, it was both visible and audible. It's 500 meters from the road to the border, and at night you can't figure out who is moving there and where. All over the world it is customary to inform other states about the change in the position of military units in the border zone, just in order to avoid such "situations". This is at least unprofessionalism, as a maximum - the slovenliness of the command, who gave the order to move the column
3) A MANPADS shooter - he sits in a trench and does not have fashionable radars on which the border lines are drawn. Banal loss on the ground
4) In the end, the wiring took place in the combat zone. Did the crew take self-defense measures? If not, then this is at least unprofessionalism, as a maximum - sloppiness. And if he did, then the question of their effectiveness arises in full growth and from this it starts to smell very bad for Rosoboronexport

In general, all participants in this incident are interested in hushing up this blatant coincidence, which ended tragically. The shooter will never be found, the money for the helicopter will be paid, the Heroes will be handed out posthumously and that's it ...

[kamakama]

Well, they weren't even generous with the Heroes, only with Courage
https://www.rbc.ru/politics/14/11/2020/5fafb8a39a794789dcb7bbde

[ppgt90]

The fact that the Chinese author is utterly nonsense is undeniable. I wanted to dwell on another aspect. The Russian MI - 24 helicopter was essentially carrying out a combat mission. Accompanied and covered the convoy of Russian troops on the march. Everything seems to be clear. But I am only interested in one fact. For what reason was the helicopter shot down like in a training range? In such cases, certain measures are taken to counter MANPADS. For what joy do we need helicopters that do not know how to defend themselves against possible defeat? Here are doubts gnawing at me that following practically in the zone of armed confrontation, our helicopter "just flew". Are there that down-and-out suicides piloting a helicopter, or just do not care? Well, it doesn’t fit in my head that our helicopter was just shot down like that. I am not interested in the distribution of awards and gingerbread. I'm interested in who exactly did something unfinished again. That is why, after the downed SU-24, escort fighters began to take off, after the downed SU-25, they also began to make additional gestures to protect the aircraft from MANPADS. Now again a similar porridge? What was missing on the helicopter again? It seems like our army has changed quite seriously and rearmament is proceeding rather quickly. But God beat me, but in this case someone's frank indifference or just nonsense is clearly visible. In this case, the "human factor", which is boring to the point of blurring, is clearly traced. It is simply necessary to find the perpetrators and to screw up the whole form. Because of someone's carelessness or simply from stupid not knowing what and how, in what cases, people die. Technique to hell with her. But people .... Technique without a person is just metal junk.

[bessonov932]

Last year, China celebrated with fanfare the 50th anniversary of the events at Domansky. This is about "shooting across the border".
https://portofranko-vl.ru/publication/neudobnyy-podvig-godovschinu-sobytiy-na-damanskom-po-raznomu-otmechayut-v-kitae-i-rossii/

[Peter rybak]

Judging by the amount of use of the term Casus belli, both with business and without business, the people gathered here are serious. And using this term, everyone thinks that they have not left the interlocutor a chance.
Just in case, Casus belli is a formal excuse to declare war.