Military Review

Russian gas and Polish brake

93
Russian gas and Polish brake

Not Danish or Polish



The Russian gas pipeline Nord Stream 2, which was almost scrapped shortly before the outbreak of the coronavirus crisis, may well be reanimated in the near future. Already due to the fact that the global economy (although Covid-19 forced many leading countries to resort to lockdown again) will not collapse.

Such assessments are now heard from the lips of most experts, although the stability of business around the world is, of course, very fractional. However, unprecedented support for the hardest hit industries seems to be starting to work.

Cautious optimism is confirmed by stock market growth and various kinds of futures deals. Moreover, both with oil, although there demand is still lagging behind supply and new OPEC + negotiations are coming, and with all the main indicative assets.

Optimism for analysts is given not so much by the confident step of China as by the indicators of a number of countries with a special approach to combating the pandemic. And then an unexpected, actually, circumstance: the United States is relatively calmly enduring the protracted saga with the presidential elections.

Although, perhaps, today this is precisely the most positive factor. At the moment, quite a few circumstances have come to light that once did not work in favor of Nord Stream 2. Now they are helping him in an amazing way.


Strange as it may seem, this became especially noticeable after the Polish antimonopoly agency, operating under the mysterious abbreviation UOKiK, hastily fined Russian Gazprom. And not only the concern, but also its foreign partners, and even for the maximum possible amount of $ 7,6 billion.

Let us remind you that before Poland got involved in the battle with Nord Stream 2, not in journalistic terms, but in reality, it was mainly Denmark who had to press the brake. To begin with, the announcement of the Danes' decision to agree on the route was clearly delayed. Then this decision, unexpectedly for many, turned out to be negative.


However, few doubted that under German pressure, Copenhagen would most likely accept some kind of diplomatic form of compensation for its consent. And so it happened, but the process dragged on just before the entry into force of a series of US sanctions.

And then, somehow, at the wrong time, the pandemic began, although it did not affect Nord Stream 2, it seems, at all. But she allowed the project participants to take a break, which could calm all passions.

In addition, they hoped to soften the severity of the action of the American sanctions on the eve of the presidential elections in the United States. It seemed that the project participants were already morally ready to even close the project altogether, at least temporarily.

In fact, they did not waste time preparing alternate airfields and looking for acceptable options for circumventing the sanctions. Something like how it was done with the Iranian atomic deal. However, so far, as we see, fines come to replace sanctions.

And not yet in German


Only time will tell how realistic the repetition of the "Danish version" is in dialogue with Poland. But you must admit that it is very significant that the Poles are fining Gazprom for a project that has already been approved and tested many times over.

As you know, Polish antimonopolists accused Russian gas companies (and five European partners of Gazprom in Nord Stream 2 - German companies Wintershall and Uniper, Austrian OMV, French Engie and Anglo-Dutch oil and gas giant Shell) of creating a joint venture bypassing the ban of the Polish authorities.

It was the joint company that was supposed to build the second stream, so as not to run into sanctions, primarily American ones. In fact, in principle, sanctions could not have been feared until a concrete prospect of large-scale supplies of American liquefied natural gas (LNG) emerged on the horizon.

Polish penalties have reached the maximum prescribed by the laws of the country - 10 percent of the company's annual turnover. But not Gazprom, but that very joint venture with the participation of the Europeans. That was the reason for the full support of the Russian concern from the partners.


However, it was the Russian Gazprom that took over all the troubles with the Polish side. To begin with, the company, in response to the Polish fine, declared that they fundamentally disagree with Warsaw's position.

This was followed by an official notification from European regulators that neither Gazprom nor the joint venture violated the antimonopoly legislation of Poland, and a warning about their intention to appeal the decision. Almost immediately, the European Commission, oddly enough, supported the Russian company, but at the moment it limited itself to a statement that the fine imposed was too large.

It is well known that Germany, despite all the contradictions at the top, remains a principled supporter of the completion of the Nord Stream 2 project. The temporary retreat, which had to be done because of the position of the Federal Network Agency of the Federal Republic of Germany, changed little in essence.

Let us remind you that German networkers rejected an application to exempt the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline from the EU Gas Directive in the spring of this year. This decision came as a complete surprise to the federal government, which has consistently supported the project.

But official Berlin simply stepped over the experts of the network agency, officially independent. However, enough time was again lost for Nord Stream 2 to remain somewhere on the Baltic seabed.

At the same time, Germany continues to declare over and over again that it fundamentally rejects US extraterritorial sanctions. As you know, the first Nord Stream did not cause any serious problems for Gazprom at one time, either with the United States or with its European partners, and even less so with Ukraine.

But the "gas wars" with the southern neighbor were going on with all the Rada and all the presidents - pro-Russian or not. The beginning of the Nord Stream-2 project generally falls on 2011, when Moscow's protege Viktor Yanukovych was president of Kiev. And everything happened almost simultaneously with the launch of the first string of the first Nord Stream.

It was his success that then gave Gazprom the opportunity to expand the new route twice at once - up to 110 billion cubic meters per year. And today almost no one remembers that Nord Stream 2 was started not because it was necessary to somehow get rid of the intractable transit country, but because of the really serious wear and tear of the old pipes laid there.

The environmental and other problems associated with construction in Ukraine, which were just the sea, were easier not to solve at all. And it is no coincidence that the second stream almost exactly repeats the route of the first, differing only in the entry point - Vyborg at the Nord Stream and Ust-Luga at the Nord Stream-2.

Both streams are "fueled" with gas in the far east - specifically the second one from the Yuzhno-Russkoye field in the Urengoy region and the Bovanenkovskoye field in Yamal. And both are transporting natural gas directly to Greifswald, Germany.

It wasn't Trump at all



Just the other day, after having withstood an almost month-long pause, the Nord Stream 2 operator, Nord Stream 2 AG, finally reacted to the fine from the Polish antimonopoly regulator UOKiK. The company representative was very brief:

“We do not comment on the decision of the Polish antimonopoly authority regarding the shareholder and financial investors of the Nord Stream 2 project.

Nevertheless, I considered it necessary to emphasize that

"The pipeline is needed to strengthen the reliability of gas supplies for the entire EU energy market."

The deputies of the Bundestag turned out to be much more talkative, one of whom is a Social Democrat, that is, a member of the ruling coalition Bernd Westphal, did not hide the fighting spirit:

"Germany and the EU will not let Washington dictate their energy policy."

Rainer Seele, the head of the Austrian OMV participating in the project, spoke out not in unison with the German parliamentarian:

“Politicians cannot protect the European economy from such extraterritorial actions. We are ready to call on the official Brussels to find an effective response and express the hope that Washington will not press further. "

Apparently, this will really not happen in the near future - after all, something like a dual power or political vacation has begun in the United States. However, regardless of who settles in the White House, the pressure from Washington on Nord Stream 2 is unlikely to weaken. The resource lobby has traditionally invested in both candidates.

Meanwhile, not much has been heard from Gazprom via Nord Stream 2, but a lot is being done. Including, and as an asymmetric response to US sanctions and Polish fines.

We are talking about the upcoming changes in the gas concern's tariff policy, which have not yet been made public. According to fragmentary information coming from industry experts, they only at first glance seem local or technical.

So, literally the day before, the press service of the gas concern received a confirmation that they had submitted an application for an increase in the price of gas supplied to Poland, upward from November 1 of this year.

As previously reported, the Polish side noted that the request for a price revision is unreasonable and "does not meet the conditions set out in the contract." By all indications, this will not end, and soon the policy of payment for gas transit and the rates for each cubic meter will change (and regularly).

Everything will now depend on the season, routes, and volumes. But that's not even the main thing. If you believe the industry press, Gazprom is ready to talk again with European buyers from the position of, if not strength (or a monopoly), then certainly an irreplaceable supplier.

And with this - the policy of intimidation and threats simply will not work:

"If they don't take it, we'll turn it off ..."

You know what.
Author:
Photos used:
obzor.it, regnum.ru, gazovik.info
93 comments
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  1. Lech from Android.
    Lech from Android. 14 November 2020 04: 53 New
    +3
    For each fine from Poland or Brussels, we automatically raise their price per cubic meter of gas ... I assure you that the fines will stop quickly.
    As for Poland and its wants ... we just need to ignore them, you never know what they get into their heads for us, this has no legal force.
    In Poland, another anti-Soviet film, Orlęta, about the defense of Grodno from Soviet troops in September 1939, began to be shot.
    https://www.fondsk.ru/news/2020/09/26/polsha-i-holokost-na-territorii-belorussii-51919.html?utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fzen.yandex.com

    Our state needs to be prepared in advance for the next lawsuit by the Poles for this ... their appetite for fines against Russia has flared up not joking. smile
    1. Grandfather
      Grandfather 14 November 2020 05: 07 New
      15
      For each fine from Poland or Brussels, we automatically increase their price per cubic meter of gas ... I assure you that the fines will end quickly
      sounds not bad, but not feasible ... there are contracts, and for violation, again fines. so they will run in a circle. request
      1. Lech from Android.
        Lech from Android. 14 November 2020 05: 10 New
        -3
        there are contracts, and for violation, again fines.

        This is a question for lawyers ... it was necessary to tie fines for political reasons into the contract, why was it not done earlier?
        It is imperative to unlink the policy from the contract ... effective managers have not calculated all the risks. hi
        1. Grandfather
          Grandfather 14 November 2020 05: 14 New
          +7
          Quote: Lech from Android.
          .effective managers have not calculated all the risks.

          so they only know how to count profits. fellow
        2. gridasov
          gridasov 14 November 2020 08: 57 New
          +3
          On the contrary! The lack of techniques and the ability to work with big data leads to underestimation of many circumstances, including those that are not obvious at a certain point in time, but which have their place in the sequence of events algorithm.
        3. Roman070280
          Roman070280 16 November 2020 09: 48 New
          +1
          fines for political reasons had to be tied to the contract, why was it not done earlier?


          Because no one would have signed such a contract ..
      2. Machito
        Machito 14 November 2020 10: 30 New
        +1
        Quote: Dead Day
        For each fine from Poland or Brussels, we automatically increase their price per cubic meter of gas ... I assure you that the fines will end quickly
        sounds not bad, but not feasible ... there are contracts, and for violation, again fines. so they will run in a circle. request

        You can simply impose sanctions: a ban on the supply of gas to Poland due to the poisoning of Navalny in Germany by the newcomer of the Skripals cat.
        1. Brturin
          Brturin 14 November 2020 14: 40 New
          +1
          Quote: Bearded
          You can simply impose sanctions: a ban on gas supplies to Poland

          The courts are not a quick matter ... Sanctions - but there are contracts ... only the contract for the supply of gas to Poland expires at the end of 2022 and the Poles stubbornly refuse to renew it ... the question is, what are they going to fill their Baltic with Pipe - there are 10 billion cubic meters a year, while they gained about 3 billion ... (and the question is the cost of what they collected) .... oh, time is ticking ...
          You can count in different ways, as an example -
          In gas terms, the production cost at the Ærfugl field is $ 99 per thousand cubic meters. In 2016, the Norwegian state giant Statoil (now Equinor) reported that its average production costs were $ 1,04 per MMBTU ($ 36 per thousand cubic meters). However, as the deputy director of the National Energy Security Fund (NESF) Alexei Grivach notes, the Troll field with reserves of 1,3 trillion cubic meters of gas is one thing and the small fields with microscopic reserves are quite another. The resources of Tommeliten, the largest gas field in which the Polish state-owned company has a share, do not exceed 6 billion cubic meters. Moreover, the delivery of Norwegian gas to Poland will not be cheap. For the future Baltic Gas Pipeline, it will cost PGNiG $ 16,7 per thousand cubic meters. But that's not all. Gas still needs to reach the Baltic Gas Pipeline, which will begin off the coast of Denmark, via the Norwegian gas transmission system and the Europipe II export pipeline. According to the forecast tariffs of the operator Gassco for 2023, delivery to the exit point will cost no less than $ 16. Thus, the cost of Norwegian gas produced by PGNiG's own production will rise to $ 132.
          https://eadaily.com/ru/news/2020/06/17/deshevyy-gaz-v-evrope-zagonyaet-antirossiyskie-proekty-polshi-v-ubytki
    2. nickname7
      nickname7 14 November 2020 12: 53 New
      +1
      It is not completely clear, the court decisions of Poland are binding in Europe and Germany, is the Polish court exterior?
      It is possible to file lawsuits in European arbitration for abuse of the right by the Poles.
    3. The eye of the crying
      The eye of the crying 14 November 2020 15: 19 New
      +2
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      For each fine from Poland or Brussels, we automatically raise their price per cubic meter of gas ... I assure you that the fines will stop quickly.


      This is yes. As soon as a cubic meter of Russian gas becomes more expensive than a cubic meter of liquefied gas from anywhere, the fines will stop immediately. Shopping too.
    4. Imobile
      Imobile 15 November 2020 20: 11 New
      -2
      How to raise? Experience shows that prices will be reduced and the penalty paid. And yet, from the moment the pipelayers curtailed construction It was more than half a year, how was it allowed to build, did you build at least a meter? Looking forward to when Biden gets to the unfinished construction? So this is not earlier than February. Well, can we put a couple of meters of pipes?
  2. Slipper 2
    Slipper 2 14 November 2020 04: 58 New
    -15 qualifying.
    judomasks steal natural resources from Russia and sell them for free am
    1. Lech from Android.
      Lech from Android. 14 November 2020 05: 05 New
      +6
      judomasks steal natural resources from Russia and sell them for free

      It is difficult to get off the gas and oil needles, gas and oil addiction is very difficult to treat, so do not expect this to end soon. hi
      Yes, and the country's budget needs to be filled with something ... the industry cannot yet do it in full, sales markets are small, the Chinese have flooded everything, we were squeezed out of Europe ... in general, the picture is still bleak.
      1. Gardamir
        Gardamir 14 November 2020 07: 33 New
        +3
        lol while you're here joking at the Mask, the world is slowly shifting to electric cars.
        As for the country's budget, you don't have to be Yanov or Kudrin to do this, everything will be filled. But there is no desire to fill.
        1. bar
          bar 14 November 2020 09: 30 New
          +6
          while you're here joking at the Mask, the world is slowly shifting to electric cars.

          This means that the demand for gas will grow. Electrospaces, which are supposed to charge these electric cars, must work on something. Coal / atom is not kosher, you cannot build hydroelectric power stations everywhere, and there is little hope for windmills / panels.
          1. Gardamir
            Gardamir 14 November 2020 10: 27 New
            0
            Why is there little hope? Let's remember the cars of the early 20th century and the end. So here, it will not happen one day, another thing is that the movement towards the collection, storage and use of solar energy has begun
            1. bar
              bar 14 November 2020 10: 30 New
              +9
              Why is there little hope?

              I'm too close to this topic to believe in fairy tales.
              The production of all these wind turbines / panels takes as much energy as they do not generate in their entire life. And about batteries in general is a sad topic, especially if you do not forget about the problems with their disposal.
          2. Avior
            Avior 14 November 2020 11: 52 New
            +2
            At night there is always a surplus of electricity due to the peculiarities of the load schedule and a massive transition to electric vehicles would solve this problem without building new power plants
            1. bar
              bar 14 November 2020 11: 59 New
              +3
              At night there is always a surplus of electricity due to the peculiarities of the load schedule and a massive transition to electric vehicles would solve this problem without building new power plants

              Of course, there is a niche for electric vehicles. For example city / suburban transportation, "second car in the family" for shopping trips. But the people are drowning for "switching to electric cars", and this is a slightly different scale. As for the construction of new power plants, this cannot be avoided. The "greens" are successfully fighting dirty coal-fired power plants, of which Europe is still full, and are closing down nuclear power plants. They must be replaced by something. And TPPs running on gas are the most environmentally friendly today.
              1. Avior
                Avior 14 November 2020 12: 09 New
                +3
                In Germany, the rate on wind and solar
                In France, at a nuclear power plant. Differently in Europe.
                1. bar
                  bar 14 November 2020 12: 11 New
                  +3
                  Well, the French in this sense are good fellows, have a snack. And the rest of the toothless Europe completely fell under the "green"
                2. Brturin
                  Brturin 14 November 2020 12: 34 New
                  0
                  Quote: Avior
                  In France, at a nuclear power plant.

                  They are good at nuclear power plants, but the weather ... in 2018, which in 2019 had to stop several units - cooling systems - because of the heat. And in the heat, consumption peaks ... The climate is not going to change for the better yet ... And the rivers are shallow ...
                  1. Avior
                    Avior 14 November 2020 14: 21 New
                    +3
                    I don't know what caused the situation there.
                    But improving cooling due to heat is not a problem. Pond - cooler, cooling towers - just increase their area slightly.
                3. Normal ok
                  Normal ok 14 November 2020 20: 17 New
                  -1
                  Quote: Avior
                  In Germany, the rate on wind and solar
                  In France, at a nuclear power plant. Differently in Europe.

                  Recently in Europe there have been serious shifts towards the use of hydrogen. Germany is ahead of everyone.
              2. ccsr
                ccsr 14 November 2020 14: 47 New
                -2
                Quote: bar
                Of course, there is a niche for electric vehicles. For example city / suburban transportation, "second car in the family" for shopping trips.

                This niche is very large and a lot of electricity will be required if automakers already predict that by 2030 there will be about 400 million electric vehicles in the world, i.e. about 30-35% of the total park. Therefore, gas will be required for thermal stations, as the cheapest energy carrier - this is a fact, if they do not find an even cheaper source of electricity.
                Already, Moscow is switching to electric buses (there are already over 400 of them), and on some outbound routes, trolleybus contact wires have already been removed and their routes have been closed forever. So things will probably go even faster with electric vehicles than we can imagine.
                1. bar
                  bar 14 November 2020 14: 54 New
                  0
                  automakers are already predicting that there will be about 2030 million electric vehicles in the world by 400

                  The automakers are highly optimistic in their forecasts. They can and can rivet 400 million electric vehicles, but they also need to be sold. And this can cause problems. Now it is, for example, the high price of electric vehicles compared to similar cars, the lack of infrastructure for charging. If we solve these problems and increase demand, the following will arise - an inevitable increase in electricity prices, the cost of the subsequent disposal of used batteries. Well, etc.
                  1. ccsr
                    ccsr 14 November 2020 15: 20 New
                    +1
                    Quote: bar
                    The automakers are highly optimistic in their forecasts. They can and can rivet 400 million electric vehicles, but they also need to be sold. And this can cause problems.

                    There is data on car production in the world, and I think the demand will not decrease. As for electric vehicles, now all the big companies are already producing them, and it looks like this trend will capture all manufacturers. A problem may arise with batteries for them - this is really so, but now they are constantly working to create new batteries with a higher capacity.
                    The most recent research was carried out by the International Automobile Manufacturers Association (OICA) in 2015.
                    According to experts, at that time, 947 million passenger cars and 335 million commercial vehicles were in operation in the world.
                    A year earlier, similar calculations were made by experts of the analytical company Navigant Research. They did not include heavy off-road and construction vehicles. As a result, analysts counted 1,2 billion cars. At the same time, 95% of the total number of registered units of equipment were cars.
                    According to forecasts by Navigant Research, in the near future, annual sales of passenger cars may grow to 126,9 million units. With such an indicator, by 2035 the global vehicle fleet will reach 2 billion. For the first time in the billion mark, the number of vehicles crossed in 2010.


                    More at Autonews:
                    https://www.autonews.ru/news/5c9114d69a7947491f827c6e
                    1. bar
                      bar 14 November 2020 17: 19 New
                      +1
                      As for electric vehicles, now all the big companies are already producing them, and it looks like this trend will capture all manufacturers.

                      This is not a tendency, but legislative pressure from the "greens" who have infiltrated the authorities. Just reported - Boris Johnson announced the full transition of the UK to electric vehicles by 2030.
                      https://tass.ru/ekonomika/10003609
                      And this despite the fact that a third of small British power plants still run on coal, and many "green" power plants use such "renewable fuel" as firewood.
                      1. ccsr
                        ccsr 14 November 2020 17: 52 New
                        -1
                        Quote: bar
                        This is not a tendency, but legislative pressure from the "greens" who have infiltrated the government.

                        No, this is a completely different trend - production is cheaper, and the weight of an electric car is lighter than that of the same traditional car. In general, it is obvious that the electric car is more technological and economical, which affects the income of manufacturers. And the groans of the greens don't bother anyone - here the dog is buried in production technology.
                      2. bar
                        bar 14 November 2020 18: 07 New
                        +3
                        No, this is a completely different trend - production is cheaper, and the weight of an electric car is lighter than that of the same traditional car.

                        You are a little off topic. In fact, the weight of an electric vehicle is greater than the weight of its gasoline classmate due to the heavy weight of the batteries. And it is "technologically advanced" only in terms of the body and chassis. The batteries themselves are highly low-tech; production from them is not environmentally friendly and uneconomical. Hence the high price, which accounts for almost half of the cost of an electric vehicle. As for the "moans" of the green ones, they are no longer moans. Now the greens are in power and rule both in the EU and beyond. Take the "Kyoto Protocol", the constantly tightening Euro toxicity standards (even to the detriment of fuel efficiency), the closure of power plants, sanctions against our "streams", etc.
                        By the way, the production of electric vehicles is also conditioned by "green" legislative norms. Now every automaker is forced to produce a certain% of cars with "zero emission". And here each manufacturer, in order to avoid sanctions and horse fines, turns as best he can. Someone honestly produces the required number of electric vehicles, selling them cheaper than the cost (losses are still less than fines), someone stupidly buys these quotas from the same Musk.
                      3. ccsr
                        ccsr 15 November 2020 11: 05 New
                        +1
                        Quote: bar
                        In fact, the weight of an electric vehicle is greater than the weight of its gasoline classmate due to the heavy weight of the batteries.

                        The same "Tesla" is not much heavier than the "Camry" - 1900 and 1690 kg, respectively. At the same time, the tendency to reduce the weight of batteries is constantly observed, but the weight of a traditional car practically does not change. Would you personally choose which of these two cars if the charging system for electric vehicles was as advanced as that of gasoline cars?
                        Quote: bar
                        The batteries themselves are highly low-tech, production from them is not environmentally friendly and uneconomical.

                        You are not aware of modern developments, but they are constantly going on and lead not only to a decrease in cost, but also to an increase in capacity. The problem is quite different - how to set up the production of a huge amount of batteries and how to recycle them to reuse a number of rare earth materials.
                        Quote: bar
                        As for the "moans" of the green ones, they are no longer moans.

                        Tell the Chinese about it - they are already the leaders in the production of cars in the world, and they do not give a damn about any green, if only it is beneficial to them. And there is also India on the way, where there are generally different ideas about greens, and which will soon overtake China in terms of population. And they won't bother with green ideas.
                        Quote: bar
                        By the way, the production of electric vehicles is also conditioned by "green" legislative norms.

                        So this means that this will force Europeans to buy electric cars - so this is also a source of income for those companies that will now take the lead in their production, because volumes will reduce the cost.
                        Quote: bar
                        Someone honestly produces the required number of electric vehicles,

                        Can you prove this with the example of the Chinese automakers?
                        By the way, here is a fairly objective assessment of the advantages and disadvantages of electric vehicles, although it is not entirely correct in terms of the maximum mileage on a single charge:
                        https://zdamsam.ru/a31956.html
                      4. bar
                        bar 15 November 2020 12: 04 New
                        0
                        May I not argue with you? I have been involved in electric cars professionally since the 80s as a designer, and I know a little more about them.
                      5. ccsr
                        ccsr 15 November 2020 13: 45 New
                        +1
                        Quote: bar
                        May I not argue with you? I have been involved in electric cars professionally since the 80s as a designer, and I know a little more about them.

                        Well, if you consider that we collect Japanese and other global car brands at home, and VAZ was never able to promote its cars around the world, your knowledge of global trends in electric vehicles can hardly be considered fundamental, knowing what we had in the 80s and what they have now in the West. I was involved in the development of batteries in Soviet times, even when only the first R&D was carried out on lithium batteries, and I note that what we have now, we never dreamed of. So maybe you just lagged behind the global trends in the development of electric vehicles, if only because this culture in our country had a strong failure after the collapse of the USSR.
                      6. bar
                        bar 15 November 2020 15: 10 New
                        0
                        Well, considering that we collect Japanese and other global car brands at home, and VAZ was never able to promote its cars all over the world, your knowledge of global trends in electric vehicles can hardly be considered fundamental, knowing what we had in the 80s and what they now have in the West.

                        As you wish. Moreover, I am not going to discuss with you.
                        But tell me, we only had one VAZ in the anus after the collapse of the USSR? Does everyone else have everything in chocolate? You, personally, have not lagged behind global trends?
                      7. ccsr
                        ccsr 15 November 2020 15: 19 New
                        +1
                        Quote: bar
                        But tell me

                        Tell me better, did you yourself develop batteries in order to understand what is most important in an electric car?
                        Quote: bar
                        You, personally, have not lagged behind global trends?

                        I try to look through the materials, since the automotive topic has been interesting to me for fifty years, since I began to study the auto business at the university. And it seems to me that more than a century of domination of the internal combustion engine has come to an end, no matter how someone tries to prove that electric cars will lose in this matter.
                      8. bar
                        bar 15 November 2020 15: 27 New
                        0
                        You, personally, have not lagged behind global trends?

                        I try to look through the materials, since the automotive topic has been interesting to me for fifty years, since I began to study the auto business at the university.

                        But do you refuse others such an interest "since VAZ has not promoted"?

                        And it seems to me that more than a century of ICE domination has come to an end

                        Yeah, she will definitely come. Immediately after electricity deposits are discovered on Earth and the first well is drilled.
                      9. ccsr
                        ccsr 16 November 2020 11: 08 New
                        +2
                        Quote: bar
                        But do you refuse others such an interest "since VAZ has not promoted"?

                        It's not VAZ, but the fact that we are not world leaders in car production for a number of objective reasons. That is why we are lagging behind the world achievements in this industry, in particular in the transition to electric vehicles.
                        .
                        Quote: bar
                        Yeah, she will definitely come. Immediately after electricity deposits are discovered on Earth and the first well is drilled.

                        We would have switched to electric vehicles long ago, fifty years ago, if a cheap battery with high specific characteristics and a wide temperature range of application had been created. Unfortunately, we only came to this in the 21st century, which is why the internal combustion engine in the automotive industry held on for so long.
                      10. bar
                        bar 16 November 2020 11: 24 New
                        +1
                        It's not VAZ, but the fact that we are not world leaders in car production for a number of objective reasons.

                        We are not leaders at all. There is no own car production left in Russia. What we have is a "full cycle" screwdriver assembly with a meager percentage of localization. And the objective reason for this is the complete collapse of the economy.

                        We would have switched to electric vehicles long ago, fifty years ago, if a cheap battery with high specific characteristics had been created.

                        You think narrowly.
                        Firstly, batteries (about the cost for now) with high performance to ensure the mileage of an electric vehicle, comparable to a car, require the same "high performance" when charging. For example, small electric vehicles such as Leaf or Ellada have batteries with a capacity of 25-30 kWh. Such batteries, in principle, can be charged overnight from a conventional single-phase 16A socket. And the same Teslas with 80+ kWh batteries need to be charged for several days from the same network. Since this did not fit into anyone, a network of powerful charging stations with all the supply infrastructure, power lines, etc. is required.
                        Secondly, almost half of the hydrocarbons produced in the world are burned as fuel in an internal combustion engine. Therefore, to provide the entire fleet of electric vehicles that will replace these internal combustion engines, it is required to burn all these hydrocarbons (and even more, taking into account losses) in the furnaces of power plants that still need to be built (hello green).
                        So the problem with switching to electric cars does not end with capacious batteries. They are just beginning with him. But for some reason they prefer not to talk about this, and even more so they are not going to do anything in this direction. On the contrary, in the same Europe, thermal power plants and nuclear power plants are being shut down with might and main. Hence the conclusion - no one seriously believes in replacing internal combustion engines with electric vehicles.
                      11. ccsr
                        ccsr 16 November 2020 12: 48 New
                        +1
                        Quote: bar
                        We are not leaders at all. There is no own car production left in Russia.

                        I might have "worried" about this, if I did not know that the best Volvo trucks in the world consist of only 20-30 percent of parts made in Sweden. Nobody canceled the world division of labor - we do the same nuclear power plants better than anyone else and on a domestic basis.
                        Quote: bar
                        You think narrowly.

                        Perhaps, but not so much as not to understand that the age of the internal combustion engine is coming to an end - the current ban on the operation of diesel engines in German cities proves this best of all.
                        Quote: bar
                        Such batteries, in principle, can be charged overnight from a conventional single-phase 16A socket. And the same Teslas with 80+ kWh batteries need to be charged for several days from the same network.

                        You just do not know that the system of fast charging of batteries was solved in spacecraft about fifty years ago, using various catalysts and bypass valves, but the price of such products was high. So it is not known which of us thinks narrowly, because now we have achieved amazing results in this process, but you are apparently not in the subject. I'm not talking about the fact that I have a contactless charger installed in my car, and this principle can be applied to charging in daytime parking lots when the car is not in use.
                        Quote: bar
                        Secondly, almost half of the hydrocarbons produced in the world are burned as fuel in an internal combustion engine. Therefore, to provide the entire fleet of electric vehicles that will replace these internal combustion engines, it is required to burn all these hydrocarbons (and even more, taking into account losses) in the furnaces of power plants that still need to be built (hello green).

                        Here I agree with you, which is why I support the construction of gas pipelines to Europe - they will still need our gas. By the way, there is an incineration plant in the center of Vienna, and it provides a large amount of energy for the production of heat and electricity. This must also be taken into account.
                        Quote: bar
                        So the problem with switching to electric cars does not end with capacious batteries. They are just beginning with him.

                        I'm not saying that everything will be smooth, but the problem will be solved much faster than you think - remember how microelectronics has developed over the past twenty to thirty years at the household level, and everything will become clear.
                        Quote: bar
                        Hence the conclusion - no one seriously believes in replacing internal combustion engines with electric vehicles.

                        According to some estimates, by 2030 they will occupy 30-35% of all cars in the world, and by 2040 most likely no one will produce ICEs at all.
                2. bar
                  bar 15 November 2020 15: 27 New
                  +1
                  You, personally, have not lagged behind global trends?

                  I try to look through the materials, since the automotive topic has been interesting to me for fifty years, since I began to study the auto business at the university.

                  But do you refuse others such an interest "since VAZ has not promoted"?

                  And it seems to me that more than a century of ICE domination has come to an end

                  Yeah, she will definitely come. Immediately after electricity deposits are discovered on Earth and the first well is drilled. laughing
  • CSKA
    CSKA 14 November 2020 10: 33 New
    0
    Yeah. Now it will pass. Percentage look at how much goes. And of course the whole world will move. And in Bangladesh, and in Peru, and in Barbados, everyone will ride Tesla. And in the course at the expense of what this electricity is taken, with the help of which the whole world will drive electric cars? If you were Siluanov or Kudrin, maybe when you usually didn't talk nonsense.
  • nickname7
    nickname7 14 November 2020 12: 48 New
    0
    while you're here joking at the Mask,

    Dear friend, they don’t joke about Mask here, his rockets fly, teslas are on sale. Unless the details of his company were clarified here, but this is not a banter.
    1. bar
      bar 14 November 2020 14: 57 New
      0
      Buddy, they don’t joke on Mask, his rockets fly

      A very timely remark, especially considering the explosion of another rocket from SpaceX laughing
      1. The eye of the crying
        The eye of the crying 14 November 2020 15: 22 New
        -1
        Quote: bar
        taking into account the explosion of another rocket from SpaceX


        On trials.
        1. bar
          bar 14 November 2020 16: 55 New
          0
          And for the third in a row
          1. The eye of the crying
            The eye of the crying 14 November 2020 18: 33 New
            -1
            Tests are such a thing. However, the previous one was blown up on purpose.
            1. bar
              bar 14 November 2020 18: 35 New
              +1
              I will clarify - they tested it on purpose, but they exploded themselves. Either they could not withstand the pressure when refueling cryogenic tanks, or due to fuel leaks. It is unlikely that they deliberately organized these leaks.
              1. The eye of the crying
                The eye of the crying 14 November 2020 19: 17 New
                -1
                To be more precise, it must be said that the "next rocket" did not explode - one of the engines exploded during static tests. The rocket itself is intact, although one or more engines will have to be replaced.
                1. bar
                  bar 14 November 2020 19: 40 New
                  +1
                  The rocket itself is intact, although ...

                  ... although it melted a little as a result of the fire. This is if we clarify further. But I'm already tired of it. This is Musk's problem, even if he bothers.
                2. The eye of the crying
                  The eye of the crying 14 November 2020 19: 42 New
                  -1
                  Quote: bar
                  I'm already tired


                  As you say.

                  Quote: bar
                  This is Musk's problem


                  But the joy is yours.
                3. bar
                  bar 14 November 2020 19: 49 New
                  +2
                  And your grief? Actually, I just stated the facts, that's all.
                4. The eye of the crying
                  The eye of the crying 14 November 2020 19: 50 New
                  -2
                  Quote: bar
                  And your grief?


                  No. But definitely a regret.
  • Evil543
    Evil543 14 November 2020 07: 28 New
    +4
    Do Muscovites know about this? There will soon be no Muscovites in Moscow.
  • Pessimist22
    Pessimist22 14 November 2020 05: 32 New
    17
    Nord Stream, fines, capitalist showdowns, and about South Stream to "fraternal" Turkey and the Power of Siberia, write an article, filling, recoupment, at what price the national property is being sold, have the flow strategies been justified and when will Russian citizens be provided with gas?
    1. The leader of the Redskins
      The leader of the Redskins 14 November 2020 07: 30 New
      +3
      And this optimistic article has several questions.
      The fact that SP2 will ever be completed is beyond doubt. The question is how many times the price of the project will rise and whether the pipe will become "golden".
      And about the pipe, by the way. The authors named the reason for the construction of JV2 "pipe wear at Ukroin". Didn't they wear out on the territory of Russia?
      Somewhere long ago a sign flashed, so on our length accidents on the gas pipeline happened more often.
      So the authors were lying with the reasons.
      1. Lexus
        Lexus 14 November 2020 20: 43 New
        +3
        Colleague hi,
        Unsupported optimism does little to help solve the problem, but, on the contrary, only aggravates it, acquiring clinical forms and further removing dreamers from objective reality, up to the complete loss of adequacy and connection with the world.
    2. GRIGORIY76
      GRIGORIY76 14 November 2020 09: 15 New
      +4
      Krutikhin has already written everything. And about the "power of Siberia-2" too.
    3. bar
      bar 14 November 2020 09: 39 New
      0
      write an article about South Stream to "brotherly" Turkey and the Power of Siberia, filling, payback

      Why write about sad things? The Kovykta field, for which the "power of Siberia" was built, turned out to be highly overvalued, and there was nothing to fill this "power" with. The Chinese face fines. In this regard, the "power of Siberia - 2" has started abruptly, which will make it possible to transfer gas to the east from Yamal. Despite the fact that the reserves of Yamal are also not endless. Apparently this is the reason for the cooling of Gazprom to "Nord Stream - 2", soon there will be no gas left for it.
      1. CSKA
        CSKA 14 November 2020 10: 35 New
        -2
        Quote: bar
        The Kovykta field, for which the "power of Siberia" was built, turned out to be highly overvalued, and there was nothing to fill this "power" with.

        ))))) The compositions rushed.
        Quote: bar
        The Chinese face fines.

        If you are lying, then let's go for Goebel's. Start with what the Martians decide to impose fines.
        1. bar
          bar 14 November 2020 10: 40 New
          -3
          ))))) The compositions rushed.

          Seryozha, before you glue the labels, read something on the topic. Wikipedia at least ...
          1. CSKA
            CSKA 14 November 2020 13: 21 New
            0
            Quote: bar
            Seryozha, before you glue the labels, read something on the topic. Wikipedia at least ...

            What are you? So I read it. Let's analyze your words.
            Quote: bar
            Kovykta field, for which the "power of siberia" was built

            Lying. The power of Siberia was built under the Chayandinskoye field with reserves of 1,2 trillion m³. The Kovykta will be annexed only in 2023.
            Quote: bar
            turned out to be highly overrated

            Lying. The initial estimate was 2,7 trillion m³, in 2019 the reserves were reduced to 2,4 trillion m³. It's not much overrated.
            Quote: bar
            and there was nothing to fill this "force"

            Lying. Or is your math bad? The total reserves of the deposits are 3,6 trillion m³. The capacity of the Power of Siberia is 38 billion m³ per year.
            Quote: bar
            The Chinese face fines

            Delusional lie. Nobody talked about it anywhere. It is planned that at least 2020 billion cubic meters of gas will be supplied to China in 5, 2021 billion in 10, and 2022 billion cubic meters in 15, with the planned capacity reaching its design capacity in 2025. billion m³ of gas.
            Quote: bar
            In this regard, the "power of Siberia - 2"

            Delusional illogical lie. The power of Siberia-2 is only being designed, it is not even known when it will be built. This cannot in any way be related to the current gas supplies to the PRC.
            This despite the fact that the Ministry of Energy has planned the admission of Rosneft to the Power of Siberia from 2020.
            Quote: bar
            Despite the fact that the reserves of Yamal are also not endless

            Complete lack of logic. Are they endless somewhere? And we only have gas in Yamal?
            The total reserves and resources of all fields on the Yamal Peninsula: 26,5 trillion cubic meters. How does this relate to this:
            Quote: bar
            Apparently it is precisely with this that Gazprom's cooling to "Nord Stream 2" is connected, soon there will be no gas left for it.

            I will repeat myself. We have gas not only in Yamal. The capacity of the Power of Siberia is 38 billion m³ per year.
            And you at least see the paradox in your own words. Either your Power of Siberia-2 has started abruptly, then Gazprom is cooling off to it.
            Quote: bar
            In this regard, the "power of Siberia - 2"

            Quote: bar
            cooling of Gazprom to "Nord Stream - 2"

            This begs the question. Are you delusional or are you being paid to criticize the authorities?
            1. bar
              bar 14 November 2020 14: 04 New
              -3
              The power of Siberia was built under the Chayandinskoye field with reserves of 1,2 trillion cubic meters. The Kovykta will be annexed only in 2023.

              Is the situation much better with gas reserves at Chayandinskoye than at Kovykta? What does Wikipedia say? Read it.

              and there was nothing to fill this "force"

              Lying. Or is your math bad? The total reserves of the deposits are 3,6 trillion m³. The capacity of the Power of Siberia is 38 billion m³ per year.

              Your understanding is bad, otherwise how to explain the mixing of the concepts of "reserves" and "proven reserves". Is it okay that the "proven" reserves suddenly turned out to be hard to recover and more resemble a spherical horse in a vacuum? At least read here
              https://lenta.ru/articles/2020/05/28/the_power_of_lies/

              The Chinese face fines

              Delusional lie. Nobody talked about it anywhere. It is planned that in 2020 will be delivered to China

              Planned, yeah. How much will actually be delivered is a big question. Are you aware that under the contract with China, Gazprom undertakes annually to supply 30 billion cubic meters of gas to China over 38 years? Do you know what happens to Chinese customers for breach of contracts?

              Delusional illogical lie. The power of Siberia-2 is only being designed, it is not even known when it will be built.

              Well, here's what I bought ... I'm used to trusting our guarantor. And he recently solemnly announced the "start of work".

              This begs the question. Are you delusional or are you being paid to criticize the authorities?

              Nashchet who pays for what, I don't even ask questions. And the amount of rudeness only confirms this.
              1. CSKA
                CSKA 17 November 2020 14: 57 New
                -4
                Yeah. That is, with lies about it:
                Quote: bar
                Kovykta field, for which the "power of siberia" was built

                did you measure yourself safely?)))))
                Quote: bar
                Is the situation much better with gas reserves at Chayandinskoye than at Kovykta? What does Wikipedia say? Read it.

                She says what I wrote. Reserves 1,2 trillion m³. Will they be sent to the PRC in one year? A pipe with a capacity of 38 billion, despite the fact that we will reach the planned capacity only in 3 years?
                You no longer know what to catch on to and just chatter just to write something.
                Quote: bar
                Your understanding is bad, otherwise how to explain the mixing of the concepts of "reserves" and "proven reserves".

                You have something with understanding. There are only proven reserves. There are no more, guessed or invented.
                Quote: bar
                It's okay that "proven" reserves suddenly turned out to be hard to recover

                Hard to retrieve does not mean non-retrievable.
                Quote: bar
                https://lenta.ru/articles/2020/05/28/the_power_of_lies/

                I don't care that there are whiners on your tape like you wrote. Why are you just quoting them? And the fact that, according to Gazprom, the volume of gas coming from wells at the Chayandinskoye field is higher than the design one, do you not worry? Yeah, of course.
                Read more at RBC:
                https://www.rbc.ru/rbcfreenews/5ecff2739a794778b97b235c
                Quote: bar
                Are you aware that under the contract with China, Gazprom undertakes to annually supply China with 30 billion cubic meters of gas over the course of 38 years?

                Are you aware that no one says under this contract that they will supply only the Power of Siberia? We are categorically not going to supply from Sakhalin and Yamal?))))) Do you think that such stupid people are sitting in Gazprom, that knowing full well that the gas pipeline will reach full capacity in a few years, they do not prescribe this in the 2014 contract? Or have they been paying fines since 2014?
                Quote: bar
                Well, here's what I bought ... I'm used to trusting our guarantor. And he recently solemnly announced the "start of work".

                How do you selectively trust our guarantor. I do not believe there. That is, the complete absence of logic in your words:
                Quote: bar
                In this regard, the "power of Siberia - 2"

                Quote: bar
                Apparently, this is precisely why the cooling of Gazprom to the "Nord Stream - 2" is connected,

                you skip tactfully.
                The start of design work is far from the beginning of construction work. I am telling you this as a civil engineer. There is a project for the Leader destroyers, but construction has not begun. Although I think that Power of Siberia-2 will still be built, but certainly not counting on the previous contract.
                Quote: bar
                Nashchet who pays for what, I don't even ask questions. And the amount of rudeness only confirms this.

                Yes. Personally, Miller pays. I am generally on the list of Gazprom's expenses. And with such liars as you, other than being rude in another way does not work.
      2. Brturin
        Brturin 14 November 2020 12: 16 New
        0
        Quote: bar
        The Kovykta field, for which the "power of Siberia" was built, turned out to be greatly overvalued, and there was nothing to fill this "power" with. The Chinese face fines.

        Why did the Chinese start building an extension of the Power of Siberia - the Eastern Route in the summer? On the other hand, in September the second stage of the Power of Siberia began to lay a gas pipeline from the Kovykta to Chayandinskoye field. Even if they overestimated, they already wrote that Rosneft and other suppliers claimed that they were able to supply 40 billion cubic meters to Power of Siberia. m of gas and the Ministry of Energy promised to allow them ... But with the Power of Siberia -2 there is also ...
        1. bar
          bar 14 November 2020 12: 23 New
          -3
          Why did the Chinese start building an extension of the Power of Siberia - the Eastern Route in the summer?

          Why shouldn't they build? The pipeline from Russia to China is already underway. The loans they gave to Russia for its construction have already been "mastered", they must be returned with%. So Russia will pump gas there to anyone, it will not go anywhere. Where she gets it, not China's problems, they get theirs. But the "northern streams" may not be enough.
          1. CSKA
            CSKA 14 November 2020 13: 32 New
            -3
            Quote: bar
            Loans issued by them to Russia for its construction

            What? Did we, the PRC, issue loans for the construction of a pipeline on our territory?
            Quote: bar
            Where she gets it, not China's problems, they get theirs. But the "northern streams" may not be enough.

            Do not get tired of writing nonsense. As of January 1, 2018, the prospective natural gas reserves in Russia were estimated at 31,6 trillion cubic meters, the forecasted - at 163,9 trillion cubic meters. In 2018, Russia produced 725,4 billion cubic meters of gas (second place in the world), of which 245 billion cubic meters were exported.
            Learn to count.
            1. bar
              bar 14 November 2020 14: 15 New
              -1
              Chickens are counted, and in the fall, and not "prospective stocks", which have not even been explored by means of it. And extracting them is a separate sad song.
              And in general, comrade political officer, get off the armored car already. I understand this is your job. But in our time of free access to information, reading your fiery messages is simply ridiculous. I am also a patriot, but not oligophrenic. You have to be more flexible and more careful.
              1. CSKA
                CSKA 17 November 2020 15: 11 New
                -4
                Quote: bar
                Chickens are counted, and in the fall, and not "prospective stocks", which have not even been explored by means of it. And extracting them is a separate sad song.

                Oh, and they did. Well, here's the statistics. The current rating reflects the world's proven reserves of natural gas (including shale gas). The list is categorized by country and is based on BP estimates in the published Statistical Review of World Energy 2017, as well as US CIA estimates published in The World Factbook. The rating was compiled in 2018. Russia still has the largest natural gas reserves - 47,8 trillion m3.
                Of course, one of the largest corporations of British Petroleum was bribed by Gazprom, and for one and the CIA.
                Quote: bar
                And in general, comrade political officer, get off the armored car already. I understand this is your job. But in our time of free access to information, reading your incendiary messages is simply ridiculous.

                It's funny to read the nonsense and lies that you tirelessly write unfinished patriot. Not one fact, only their own speculation and lies. You may of course not be oligophrenic, but it is clear that you are a fair liar.
      3. NKT
        NKT 14 November 2020 20: 47 New
        0
        The SP-2 resource base is the Yuzhno-Russkoye field and, as a reserve, the Bovanenkovskoye field.
  • Alien From
    Alien From 14 November 2020 05: 36 New
    +7
    Yes, the European Union will not collapse without us ...)))
    1. Lech from Android.
      Lech from Android. 14 November 2020 05: 41 New
      -1
      Yes, the European Union will not collapse without us ...)))

      So after all, Russia will not collapse without the European Union ...))).
      In this quarrel, the United States will win ... that is who is the main beneficiary of the current moment ... as always, this country wants to skim the cream on conflicts in other countries.
      1. Alien From
        Alien From 14 November 2020 05: 53 New
        0
        Do not hurry)))
        1. Lech from Android.
          Lech from Android. 14 November 2020 06: 17 New
          0
          Do not hurry)))

          There is no such word in the history of the world ... there are only patterns of development of certain countries and regions in general ...
          In the United States, there is now a short-term political vacation until Biden and Trump figure it out ... so the pressure on SP-2 has eased and you can calmly end it.
          With Biden's rise to power, there will be no less interesting times than under Trump.
          1. Avior
            Avior 14 November 2020 11: 48 New
            +1
            So so weakened
            Just recently, sanctions against insurers were introduced into the budget of next year.
      2. Free wind
        Free wind 14 November 2020 06: 54 New
        -1
        Well, you skim the cream off, who doesn't?
  • Hypatius
    Hypatius 14 November 2020 06: 43 New
    +6
    Vinaigrette of assumptions, statements and rumors. Where is the analyst?
  • antivirus
    antivirus 14 November 2020 07: 17 New
    +1
    everything will be fine and they will get married - we will pay the compromise that the Germans need to bribe the Poles
  • Gardamir
    Gardamir 14 November 2020 07: 27 New
    +8
    As I understand it, fines are for residents of Russia. Because the picture, where the President of Russia is kneeling in front of the Poles, hangs before our eyes.
  • parusnik
    parusnik 14 November 2020 07: 39 New
    +3
    About everything and nothing ...
  • 7,62h54
    7,62h54 14 November 2020 07: 48 New
    +4
    Gazprom is presented in the article as a forward-looking and strong player. But how can such a company be run by a snickering group of people headed by an alcoholic?
    The fate of Gazprom to be a cash cow for Europeans.
  • tech3030
    tech3030 14 November 2020 08: 11 New
    0
    Strange as it is, they wanted to-fined! What are the reasons?
    1. Avior
      Avior 14 November 2020 11: 46 New
      +1
      The Poles accuse that when JV2 was reformatted at one time, the structure with creditors was created according to a fictitious scheme.
      It is clear from the article that the European Commission does not object to the charges, it only objects to the amount of the fine.
      1. The comment was deleted.
  • steelmaker
    steelmaker 14 November 2020 08: 34 New
    +2
    In Europe, it must be a very fierce winter for Gazprom to win something in the courts. Lack of education in everything. They can only make fun of their people!
  • Avior
    Avior 14 November 2020 11: 42 New
    +2
    ... Polish penalties have reached the maximum prescribed by the laws of the country - 10 percent of the company's annual turnover. But not Gazprom, but that very joint venture with the participation of the Europeans. This was the reason for the full support of the Russian concern from the partners.

    The fine was imposed not on the SP-2, but on the participants of the SP-2.
    For Gazprom in the amount of 7,6 billion, for the remaining five European participants - 61 million from all 5 participants.
    From which it is obvious that in reality this is a fine on Gazprom, the rest concerns symbolically. They don't really tense up because of this.
  • iouris
    iouris 14 November 2020 12: 21 New
    +1
    The gas is not "Russian", but "natural".
  • kiborg
    kiborg 14 November 2020 13: 52 New
    +1
    The article describes only the fact of the decision on the fine, but not a word is said about the reasons and grounds ... So any court can impose a fine on anyone ...
  • Rostislav
    Rostislav 14 November 2020 13: 58 New
    0
    How did Gazprom and SP-2, passing by the Polish territory, come under the jurisdiction of the Polish court?
    Judging by the fact that Gazprom has appealed against the decision, they recognize its legality.
    Can anyone clarify the situation?
    1. iouris
      iouris 14 November 2020 15: 07 New
      +1
      And who will clarify the situation with Khodarkovsky, who was released early from the camp and on the plane of the German Foreign Minister, he flew away (but promised to return) and sued for $ 100 billion, and the court in the "MH14 case", and $ 16 billion to Yanukovych on the eve of his escape , and the construction of gas pipelines to nowhere, and the construction of a nuclear power plant in Turkey at the expense of the budget of the Russian Federation, and the construction of a nuclear power plant in Belarus on the eve of the "famous events" ... And the "Berlin Patient"?
      "There are many things in the world, friend Horatio, that your (our) wise men never dreamed of" (W. Shakespeare)
    2. Avior
      Avior 14 November 2020 17: 23 New
      +2
      The local Polish counterpart of the Antimonopoly Committee decided in 2016 that the creation of a joint venture for JV-2 would contradict the EU antitrust laws and would limit competition in the Polish gas market.
      After that, JV-2 was reformatted - the company became fully owned by Gazprom, and the remaining 5 participants acted as creditors.
      Now the Poles claim that a fictitious scheme was used, but in fact nothing has changed.
  • bzbo
    bzbo 14 November 2020 23: 41 New
    0
    The tariff for Poland should include possible losses from Poland's idiotic behavior ...
  • Karpo
    Karpo 15 November 2020 08: 18 New
    0
    If there is such a threat in the world ... So this gas pipeline needs to be completed by the adversaries out of spite !!!
    They are afraid that we will put Germany on a gas needle and it will become friendly to Russia. This is what we have been striving for for decades. Germany must be saved from the bloodsuckers of the EU and others ..
  • BAI
    BAI 15 November 2020 18: 09 New
    0
    Polish penalties have reached the maximum prescribed by the laws of the country - 10 percent of the company's annual turnover. But not Gazprom, but that very joint venture with the participation of the Europeans.

    The European participants were fined 10 million euros each - the minimum. More than 7 billion were rolled out personally to Gazprom. What will Gazprom do? Pay the fine. Shouts of appeal, etc. already in the Stockholm Arbitration took place. Why Gazprom maintains an entire Legal Department is absolutely incomprehensible. All, without exception, international affairs are being played.
    1. Imobile
      Imobile 15 November 2020 20: 14 New
      -1
      So the kids need to be arranged somewhere, and there are not so many departments, it is not for the mines to send