Military Review

Light machine gun LAD

59

Light machine gun LAD, photo: kalashnikov.media


The LAD light machine gun can be attributed to the unique samples of the Soviet rifle weapons... A new light machine gun chambered for a pistol cartridge quite successfully passed field tests in 1943, showing good results. Despite the good test results, the LAD was never accepted into service.

Hitler's circular saw


The very fact of creating a light machine gun LAD followed from the nature of the Second World War. The Red Army in this component was losing to the Wehrmacht. All tactics of the German infantry were based on the use of a single MG-34/42 machine gun, around which the entire squad was built. In fact, the rest of the squad played the role of carriers of machine gun ammunition. MG-34/42, thanks to the belt feed and the ability to quickly change barrels, provided a very high density of fire. Its high rate of fire, up to 1 and even 200 rounds per minute, is also known for the MG-1 model. It is no coincidence that the machine gun even received the nickname "Hitler's circular saw."

It is with the use of rapid-fire machine guns with a high density of fire that the widespread myth is connected that the German infantrymen were without exception armed with automatic weapons. The DP-27 light machine gun could not compete with the German MG, and the Maxim easel machine guns were not the top of engineering at that time. This was superimposed on the huge losses of small arms by the Red Army. In 1941 alone, about 130 thousand DP machine guns were lost, and in 1942 the troops lost another 76 thousand light machine guns. Such losses led to the fact that already in the states of wartime divisions, the number of light machine guns in a company in comparison with the pre-war one fell twice at once. Under these conditions, the army was in dire need of a belt-fed machine gun that could be easily mastered and put into mass production.

LAD machine gun and its features


The idea of ​​creating a light machine gun LAD belongs to the employees of the NIPVSO, engineer-captain V.F. Lyutoy, N.M. Afanasyev and Major Engineer V.S. Deikin. Officially, the weapon was called "a light belt-fed machine gun chambered for the TT pistol cartridge." Abbreviated name - LAD (according to the first letters of the names of the weapon designers). The model was developed taking into account the already accumulated experience of combat operations. In particular, it was taken into account that a significant part of the decisive phases of the battle takes place at short distances, which do not exceed 300-400 meters. At this range, the lethal force of the TT pistol cartridge with an initial speed of about 600 m / s would be sufficient.


LAD in the Military-Historical Museum of Artillery, Engineering Troops and Signal Corps, photo: Yuri Pasholok

At the same time, the developers of the new machine gun rightly noted that the existing PPSh submachine guns and DP light machine guns are not able to provide the required high density of fire due to the store power implemented in them. Separately, it was pointed out that their ammunition was limited, as well as the inability of submachine guns for prolonged firing. The possibility of using the new LAD machine gun for arming paratroopers, partisans and calculations of artillery guns also stood out. For artillerymen, weapons could become very useful, since often the guns were installed for direct fire, often even in front of the infantry positions. In this regard, the presence of light machine guns with a good fire density on the battery could become a serious help in the fight against the advancing enemy infantry.

The new LAD machine gun chambered for the 7,62x25 mm pistol cartridge was structurally a more maneuverable and lightweight automatic weapon than the standard Soviet DP light machine gun. At the same time, all the achieved savings in the weight of the weapon were directed by the designers, first of all, to increase the wearable ammunition. The main tactical and technical characteristics of the weapon were as follows: length - 956 mm, weight with bipod (without a box of cartridges) - 5,3 kg, together with a box for 150 cartridges, the weight of the weapon increased to 7,63 kg. Rate of fire - 600 rounds per minute (all performance characteristics from the site kalashnikov.media).

The weapon was designed for the use of TT pistol cartridges loaded in metal strips, designed for 150 and 300 rounds. A small box with a tape could be attached to a light machine gun to fire "on the move". In addition, the second number of the crew carried a special knapsack pack, which contained two boxes with ribbons for 600 rounds. Shooting from them was carried out without joining the weapon.


Light machine gun LAD, photo: kalashnikov.media

The LAD machine gun was designed as simple and technologically advanced as possible, made of sheet steel 1,5 mm thick. The main operations in the manufacture of weapons were to be stamping, riveting and welding. The automation of the new machine gun was based on a combination of two well-known principles - the recoil of the free breechblock and the gas outlet scheme, when additional acceleration occurred with powder gases. There was no fire translator on the weapon. The cartridges were fed directly from the tape, the feed mechanism of which was placed on the receiver cover.

Structurally, a light machine gun consisted of four parts: a barrel and a receiver, a receiver cover with a tape feed mechanism, sighting devices, a weapon control handle and a stock; shutter; bolt guide with a reciprocating mainspring; boxes with a machine-gun belt. The barrel of the machine gun was equipped with a muzzle brake. Another version of the machine gun had a flame arrester-bell, as on the DP.

How the LAD light machine gun showed itself in trials


The LAD light machine gun was produced in duplicate. One of the assembled machine guns was tested in 1943 at the NIPSVO - the Research Range of Small Arms of the GRAU (Main Artillery Directorate). It is also known as the Shchurovsky test site. Small arms historian Andrei Ulanov wrote about the results of testing a unique machine gun in the publication kalashnikov.media.

On trials, the new machine gun performed well. The calculations of the creators of the weapons were confirmed. The LAD had very good reliability. For 1 shots fired (after the weapon was immersed in a swamp, special dusting with cement dust and other "bullying" provided for by the tests), only five delays were recorded. Shooting for accuracy demonstrated that the LAD light machine gun is superior in this indicator to the PPS submachine gun at distances of 750 and 100 meters and at this firing range is practically equivalent to the DP light machine gun chambered for the 300 × 7,62 mm R rifle cartridge.

Light machine gun LAD

In addition, a comparative shooting from LAD and PPSh was carried out. Shooting was carried out at several groups of targets at different distances and directions with imitation of combat conditions. During the tests, not only the advancing target of the shooters and the enemy machine gun covering its offensive with fire were simulated, but also a bypass maneuver, when the shooter had to sharply transfer the fire to other targets. Tests have shown that a shooter armed with a LAD machine gun fired his 600 rounds much faster than a fighter armed with a PPSh. At the same time, the machine gunner achieved more hits - 161 versus 112 for the submachine gun.

The report compiled based on the results of the tests carried out indicated: the simplest calculations show that when one LAD machine gun is used as part of a rifle squad, the squad's firepower at distances up to 500 meters is almost doubled. The final conclusion based on the results of the tests at the NIPSVO test site said that the new light machine gun demonstrated satisfactory operational and combat qualities. It was recommended, after the modification of the weapon, to release a series of LAD machine guns for wider range, as well as military tests of the novelty. However, this recommendation has not been implemented.

Why LAD was not adopted for service


In the conclusion of the commission, based on the results of field tests at NIPSVO, it was indicated:

"1. In terms of operational and combat properties, as well as reliability of operation, the machine gun demonstrated satisfactory results.

2. Due to the low power of the existing pistol cartridge TT 7,62x25 mm, which leads to a decrease in the combat properties of the machine gun, it is inappropriate to develop this type of weapon, which is inferior in maneuverability to the already existing submachine guns, in the future. "


LAD in the Military-Historical Museum of Artillery, Engineering Troops and Signal Corps, photo: Yuri Pasholok

The commission came to a similar conclusion, comparing the LAD with the already well-known serial submachine guns. Which, on the one hand, looked fair, but on the other - no. Formally, according to all the main features, the LAD was precisely a light machine gun, so it would be more logical to compare the weapon with them. So, the model of the designer Vasily Fedorovich Lyutoy had a number of obvious advantages over all the Soviet handbrakes available at that time, with the exception of a small effective firing range. The latter was an invariable attribute of the use of the low-power TT pistol cartridge. The LAD could not compete with light machine guns chambered for the 7,62x54 mm rifle cartridge either in terms of effective range of destruction of targets on the battlefield, or in terms of penetrating power of ammunition, which was also very important.

The LAD turned out to be an intermediate solution, which was between the existing and mass-produced industrial submachine guns and the DP-27 light machine gun. In fact, the weapon could be classified as heavy submachine guns with increased combat capabilities, but no more. It was considered inexpedient to introduce new niche small arms into production during the war. This was also influenced by the completion of the development of the first domestic intermediate cartridge 7,62x39 mm, model 1943. This ammunition provided the required compromise between the weight of the weapon and the requirements of combat effectiveness, including the firing range. With the advent of this cartridge, the disappearance of submachine guns from the battlefield, as well as new models of automatic weapons chambered for a pistol cartridge, was only a matter of time.
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  1. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 13 November 2020 18: 11
    +8
    Not bad. But, I think so, he appeared very late. If the drawings and equipment were ready anywhere at the beginning of 1942, then maybe he would have received a "start in life."
    1. mat-vey
      mat-vey 13 November 2020 20: 21
      +8
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      then maybe he would have gotten a "start in life".

      It was partially embodied in others, and very famous (I would say famous design) - "However, as often happens, successful design solutions implemented in the LAD machine gun,
      subsequently found application in other, more promising
      samples of small arms. For example, attached to the bottom of a machine gun
      that tape box was used in the design of the light machine gun
      Degtyarev (RPD) and single Kalashnikov and Nikitin machine guns. Time
      placement of the moving system in the receiver on the internal
      protruding guides with minimal friction surfaces
      and maximally isolated from the walls also turned out to be very successful
      find, which later found its place in many systems of the
      quality small arms, including machine guns and machine guns
      Kalashnikov.
  2. Theodore
    Theodore 13 November 2020 18: 12
    +1
    Tests have shown that a shooter armed with a LAD machine gun fired his 600 rounds much faster than a fighter armed with a PPSh.

    And what kind of tape was that? Offensive!
  3. Flooding
    Flooding 13 November 2020 18: 14
    +3
    Who will tell you what kind of handsome man lies in the window below the machine gun (second photo)?
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 13 November 2020 18: 43
      +9
      I also became interested and it turned out that this is a 7,62 mm self-loading carbine TKB-728 designed by Korovin for the TT pistol cartridge.
  4. John22
    John22 13 November 2020 18: 14
    +6
    In urban battles, the LAD would be very useful. But a giraffe is a giraffe, albeit wrong.
    1. Boris Chernikov
      Boris Chernikov 13 November 2020 19: 04
      +1
      alas, there was not enough intermediate cartridge
      1. Serg koma
        Serg koma 16 November 2020 14: 45
        0
        Quote: Boris Chernikov
        alas, there was not enough intermediate cartridge

        New light machine gun for a pistol cartridge quite successfully passed field tests in 1943, showing good results. Despite the good test results, the LAD was never accepted into service.

        Most likely, due to the appearance of an "intermediate" cartridge in service, mass production was "hacked to death".
        In 1943, the arsenal of the Red Army was replenished with the first domestic intermediate cartridge 7,62x39 mm. Soon thereafter, the development of new types of weapons began, designed for the use of such ammunition. The result of several programs for the creation of new small arms was the appearance of a number of samples of various classes: the SKS self-loading carbine, the RPD light machine gun and other weapons. Thus, the "Degtyarev light machine gun" became the first domestic model of its class using a new intermediate cartridge.
        https://topwar.ru/76476-ruchnoy-pulemet-rpd.html
        1. Boris Chernikov
          Boris Chernikov 16 November 2020 21: 48
          0
          at first it was not enough, then it appeared and they decided to abandon the pistol caliber)
  5. polpot
    polpot 13 November 2020 18: 16
    10
    The PPSh (Stalin's jigsaw) was already enough in the units, the appearance of a new machine gun did not give much benefit, an intermediate cartridge was already being developed, a logical conclusion to the story.
    1. Konnick
      Konnick 13 November 2020 20: 11
      +4
      Quote: polpot
      The PPSh (Stalin's jigsaw) was already enough in the units, the appearance of a new machine gun did not give much benefit, an intermediate cartridge was already being developed, a logical conclusion to the story.

      The first time I hear it, Stalin's jigsaw, usually they talked about the PPSh meat grinder.
      1. polpot
        polpot 13 November 2020 20: 40
        +4
        https://afirsov.livejournal.com/377850.html Хорошая статья о ППШ и лобзик и пиле.
  6. Free wind
    Free wind 13 November 2020 18: 34
    +3
    Automatic machines for pistol cartridges are developed and produced, the author is not right.
  7. Sancho_SP
    Sancho_SP 13 November 2020 18: 40
    +2
    Typical drawing of an owl on a globe. It turned out to be much easier to increase the power of the cartridge while maintaining the size of the machine.
    1. Sergey Sfiedu
      Sergey Sfiedu 14 November 2020 02: 36
      +2
      Not easier. The LAD was ready in 1943, take it and launch it into series - and it would be useful. Our automatic machine was created only in 1947.
      1. Sancho_SP
        Sancho_SP 14 November 2020 10: 22
        +1
        Remind you about the Fedorov assault rifle and 1916?)

        And in the 43rd, at the level of the prototype, the RPD was also ready, which went into the series.
        1. Avior
          Avior 14 November 2020 11: 02
          +3
          Do you know a lot of successful samples of manual automatic weapons chambered for an intermediate cartridge according to the Fedorov assault rifle scheme?
        2. mat-vey
          mat-vey 14 November 2020 11: 39
          -2
          Quote: Sancho_SP
          And in the 43rd, at the level of the prototype, the RPD was also ready

          At the prototype level in 1944 ... at the end of 1943 the terms of reference for the competition were formulated.
        3. gross kaput
          gross kaput 14 November 2020 16: 10
          +1
          Quote: Sancho_SP
          Remind you about the Fedorov assault rifle and 1916?)

          From what side did the Fedorov construction become an "automatic"? Somehow it historically happened that a machine gun / assault rifle is called a weapon chambered for intermediate power between rifle and pistol. And the Fedorov rifle became the first automatic rifle in the world only after WWII, and became such in order to prove that the STG44 is not the first automatic / assault rifle, and nothing more.
          And so Fedorovsky "automatic" is nothing more than an automatic rifle, since it used a rifle cartridge in terms of power and range.
          1. mat-vey
            mat-vey 15 November 2020 06: 10
            -1
            Quote: gross kaput
            And the Fedorov rifle became the world's first automatic rifle only after WWII, and became such in order to prove that the STG44 is not the first automatic / assault rifle, and nothing more.

            And what about the Ribeyrol carbine?
            Quote: gross kaput
            used a rifle cartridge for power and range

            Are you aware of the patrons of the Sestroretsk plant in general?
            1. gross kaput
              gross kaput 15 November 2020 13: 29
              +3
              Quote: mat-vey
              And what about the Ribeyrol carbine?

              But in any way, no one here ever remembered him, neither Fedorov nor Blagonravov or Markevich did you find him, just as you won’t find any mention of the Swiss crafts of the Fuehrer and other Austro-Hungarians - all this did not get beyond the stage of testing and research , the first finished production model is the MP43 / STG44, which was also very well known to the front-line soldiers, and then Fedorov's rifle quickly became the "world's first automatic" since it was mass-produced until the mid-20s.
              Quote: mat-vey
              Are you aware of the patrons of the Sestroretsk plant in general?

              Specify what exactly you encrypt behind the "patrons of the Sestroretsk plant"? the original version of the Fedorov cartridge was developed and tested in the workshops of the Gun Range at the officers' school in Oranienbaum, the experimental rifles were manufactured at the Sestroretsk Arms Plant and the cartridges for them at the St. , 6,5 g had n / s 8,5 m / s and energy 850 J versus 3143g 9 m / s and 740 J.
              Cartridges for arisaka since 1916 at the Petrograd cartridge plant, in Soviet times they were produced at the Podolsk plant until the early 30s. There are no serious differences in power from the Japanese, while they were equipped with VL gunpowder, the weight of which had to be increased to 2,5 versus the standard Japanese weight of 2,2-2,3 precisely to maintain the external ballistic characteristics at the Japanese level.


              With regards to Fedorov and his "automaton" - read the primary sources at your leisure. the book of Fedorov himself, maybe then a simple truth will come to you - Fedorov did not offer and did not want an intermediate patron in the form as we understand it - i.e. a cartridge in the effective range located between pistol and rifle, Fedorov proposed to reduce the caliber in order to obtain the same range and ballistics with a smaller recoil impulse as on a rifle of normal caliber. And he defended this point of view even in the mid-40s, when the question of the optimal intermediate cartridge was being decided.
              1. mat-vey
                mat-vey 15 November 2020 13: 43
                -1
                The Ribeyrola carbine fought and was even among the trophies of the Germans, and they armed them with their assault groups, like the French with the Americans.
                Quote: gross kaput
                Specify what exactly you encrypt behind the "patrons of the Sestroretsk plant"?

                Talking about machine guns and not knowing? This is Arisaka with Russian gunpowder just somewhere in the region of 2000 J and it turned out with a standard hitch and it turned out (just like a machine gun Arisaka).
                Quote: gross kaput
                With regards to Fedorov and his "automaton" - read the primary sources at your leisure. the book of Fedorov himself, maybe then a simple truth will come to you - Fedorov did not offer and did not want an intermediate patron in the form as we understand it - i.e. a cartridge in the effective range located between pistol and rifle, Fedorov proposed to reduce the caliber in order to obtain the same range and ballistics with a smaller recoil impulse as on a rifle of normal caliber. And he defended this point of view even in the mid-40s, when the question of the optimal intermediate cartridge was being decided.

                And what are you to me? AF Fedorov is not a design for the Fedorov cartridge and its characteristics are not rifle.
                AK 7,62 PS
                Weight, kg - 4,8 (with an equipped magazine)
                Length, mm - 870/1070 (with bayonet)
                Barrel length, mm - 415
                Actual fire, m ~ 400
                Those. rate of fire, rounds / min ~ 600
                Muzzle velocity, m / s - 710-725
                Muzzle energy of a bullet, J - 1990—2080
                The mass of the cartridge, g - 16,5
                Bullet weight, g - 7,9
                Type of ammunition - box magazine 30 rounds

                Automatic Fedorov 6,5x50 mm Arisaka
                Weight, kg - 5,2 (with an equipped magazine)
                Length, mm - 1045
                Barrel length, mm - 520
                Actual fire, m ~ 400
                Those. rate of fire, rounds / min ~ 600
                Muzzle velocity, m / s - 660-770
                Muzzle energy of a bullet, J - 1950—2150
                The mass of the cartridge, g - 20
                Bullet weight, g - 8,9
                Type of ammunition - box magazine 25 rounds

                Sturmgewehr 44 7,92x33 Kurz
                Weight, kg - 5,2 (with an equipped magazine)
                Length, mm - 940
                Barrel length, mm - 420
                Actual fire, m ~ 400
                Those. rate of fire, rounds / min ~ 600
                Muzzle velocity, m / s - 680-690
                Muzzle energy of a bullet, J ~ 1900
                The mass of the cartridge, g - 16,7
                Bullet weight, g - 8,1
                Type of ammunition - box magazine 30 rounds
                Can you find the difference?
                1. gross kaput
                  gross kaput 15 November 2020 19: 50
                  +2
                  Quote: mat-vey
                  The Ribeyrola carbine fought and was even among the trophies of the Germans, and they armed them with their assault groups, like the French with the Americans.

                  Will there be proofs? I think not RCM 1918 appeared at the front when there was not really anyone and there was no reason to arm it, in the west they are still arguing, but in general there were tests at the front or they did not have time, which in principle is quite logical since the first range tests of this shooter began 6 July 1918 and lasted until 1921, after which it was happily merged, and you just mixed up in a bunch of horses-people - really to fight, albeit a little, another brainchild of Ribeirol, the RSC Model 1917 self-loading rifle, of which 85000 really managed to rivet.


                  Quote: mat-vey
                  And what are you to me? AF Fedorov is not a design for the Fedorov cartridge and its characteristics are not rifle.

                  The source of your inspiration is clear - holy wikipedia :) For the sake of interest, read serious books, and try to understand what is the main difference between rifle and submachine gun cartridges, what is DES and DPV, I will even give you a hint - 6,5 cartridges of the Mannlicher-carcano type or the Swedish Mauser all will have an energy of about 2000 J from a carbine barrel but somehow they are classified as rifle - I wonder why? Probably because no one has yet taken it into their heads to prove superiority in the creation of a machine? as well as the same Italians may well claim the title of the first machine gun from their Cei-Rigotti, appeared even before WWI, there were options with auto-fire and with box magazines for 50 rounds,
                  And the version with a carbine barrel, translator and 20 magazine chargers will perfectly fit into your vision of the concept of "automatic" laughing
                  1. mat-vey
                    mat-vey 16 November 2020 15: 04
                    -1
                    Quote: gross kaput
                    The source of your inspiration is clear - holy wikipedia :)

                    Oh, how smart you are ...
                    Quote: gross kaput
                    Probably because no one has yet taken it into their heads to prove superiority in the creation of a machine?

                    So your championship and serial production are the same?
                    And in general, what is the machine according to your classification?
        4. mat-vey
          mat-vey 15 November 2020 06: 27
          -1
          As I understand it, the hardware on the VO is getting worse and worse ... then no one knows about the Karelo-Finnish Soviet Socialist Republic (by the way, it was until 1956) and they babble about 15 republics, then about the fact that samples of a complex of weapons chambered for sample 1943 were first held in the summer of 1944, and it was then that the first prototypes were made ...
  8. Catfish
    Catfish 13 November 2020 18: 50
    +8
    Interestingly, I have not read about such a design before, although, as it turned out, there is more than enough information on the network. But somehow it did not occur to the creation at a time when an intermediate cartridge was on the way, a machine gun for pistol ammunition.

    And the machine is not bad, it was just late to be born, it would be just right for a trench war in the First World War. Then a lot of things were designed.
    Here, for example, Villar-Perosa M1915
    1. Flooding
      Flooding 13 November 2020 22: 39
      +3
      Quote: Sea Cat
      And the machine is not bad, just late to be born, for a trench war in the First World War it would be just right. Then a lot of things were designed

      Agree that it could not have appeared by the First World War.
      During the period between the two worlds, military equipment made a giant qualitative leap in its development.
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 13 November 2020 22: 56
        +7
        I agree, at least on a metal tape, and not only. hi
  9. mat-vey
    mat-vey 13 November 2020 19: 25
    +5
    Small arms historian Andrei Ulanov wrote about the results of testing a unique machine gun in the publication kalashnikov.media.
    And there is a video here.
    1. igordok
      igordok 13 November 2020 22: 12
      +3
      Quote: mat-vey
      And there is a video here.

      Thank you for the video. Found another. This video is shorter and even more interesting.
  10. maktub
    maktub 13 November 2020 19: 45
    0
    9 × 19 one of the pistol cartridges
    There are many PP models in the world for this and other cartridges
    I haven't even heard of such a machine gun
    Offset to the author
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 13 November 2020 23: 12
      +6
      And what does the 9x19 cartridge have to do with it? We are talking about the cartridge 7,62x25 mm TT (7,63x25 Mauser), for which the machine gun was developed.
      1. maktub
        maktub 13 November 2020 23: 23
        0
        Last paragraph
  11. Konnick
    Konnick 13 November 2020 20: 09
    +2
    It would be better if they were sent for testing to active units at the front, everything could be different. In urban conditions and in wooded areas, where battles took place at short distances, he would have shown himself.
    1. Azimuth
      Azimuth 13 November 2020 20: 50
      0
      Why bipod at the end of the barrel? Is it not a problem to fix the forearm? Performance characteristics in this case grow.
      1. Flooding
        Flooding 14 November 2020 07: 40
        +1
        A non-removable thick barrel allows, unlike PD, for example.
        In addition, weaker ammunition, which gives significantly less recoil.
        As a result, such a decision looks quite justified.
        Pay attention to the PKK bipod.
    2. Flooding
      Flooding 13 November 2020 22: 45
      +1
      Was there free production capacity?
      Was it possible to painlessly increase the production of cartridges?
      What place would a machine gun take in an open field battle despite the fact that it is not able to fully replace the 7,62x54 light machine gun?
      Obviously, they came to the conclusion that it was inexpedient.
      1. Sergey Sfiedu
        Sergey Sfiedu 14 November 2020 02: 39
        0
        Taking into account that the PPSh and PPS were very technologically advanced structures, and all warehouses were packed with them, it was probably possible to put the LAD on the stream.
  12. businessv
    businessv 13 November 2020 21: 01
    +1
    With the advent of this cartridge, the disappearance of submachine guns from the battlefield, as well as new models of automatic weapons chambered for a pistol cartridge, was only a matter of time.
    I have not even heard of such a machine gun! Sergey, thanks for the interesting article!
  13. cat Rusich
    cat Rusich 13 November 2020 23: 16
    +5
    PP Coenders
    pp coenders
    pp coenders
    Cartridge 9x19mm - tape feed, in 1940 2 prototypes were made ... did not go into the series. The tests found a sufficient number of disadvantages.
    1. cat Rusich
      cat Rusich 13 November 2020 23: 21
      +5
      PP Coenders
      pp coenders
      pp coenders
      pp coenders
      pp coenders
    2. Constanty
      Constanty 14 November 2020 00: 14
      +2
      The skewing of the metal band when feeding into the weapon could lead to delays in shooting, including with fatal risks for the shooter.


      The argument is a bit forceful. If this were taken seriously, even RPDs and any tape-fed weapons would not have entered service.
  14. wlkw
    wlkw 13 November 2020 23: 38
    0
    The classic case - did not have time for the war ...
  15. Saxahorse
    Saxahorse 14 November 2020 00: 43
    +1
    Very curious design, thanks to the author for the original machine!

    I believe that the main disadvantage of this "LAD machine gun" was just the tape feed. In fact, the PPSh with a drum weighed 5,3 kg and provided a very decent fire density. This LAD weighed the same 5,3 kg empty and we still need to carry boxes with ribbons. In addition, reloading the tape is several times longer and more difficult. Compared to PCA, there are practically no advantages.

    PS By the way, the LAD with the box weighs 7,3 about the same as the PKM, though without the tape laughing
    1. Sergey Sfiedu
      Sergey Sfiedu 14 November 2020 02: 43
      +1
      Belt feed for a machine gun is always good. At the critical moment of the battle, you don't need to be distracted by changing stores. Plus the LAD is still a machine gun, designed for more intense fire than the PPSh.
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 14 November 2020 07: 38
        +2
        Quote: Sergey Sfyedu
        Belt feed for a machine gun is always good. At the critical moment of the battle, you don't need to be distracted by changing stores. Plus the LAD is still a machine gun, designed for more intense fire than the PPSh.

        That's right! Before and throughout the war, our designers experimented with various loading systems from magazine to wallpaper (similar to Japanese machine guns). By the beginning, the concept of the superiority of tape feed was formed. The only thing we, as always, ran into our poverty trying to use a standard canvas tape from Maxim.
        For the rest, I think that the LAD failed his pistol cartridge, it was rather weak for a machine gun. And so at the initial stage, they used Blum's training machine guns with an annular ignition cartridge 5,6. But not from a good life and fat.
        So the decision to keep the DP in service by upgrading it to DPM and RP-46 is the most sensible!
        1. irontom
          irontom 14 November 2020 08: 54
          +2
          Here, here, there is a steel stumbling band, because of it Degtyarev's easel burned out.
      2. Saxahorse
        Saxahorse 14 November 2020 20: 32
        0
        Quote: Sergey Sfyedu
        Belt feed for a machine gun is always good.

        I strongly disagree. Tape feeding is unambiguously justified for stationary installations, a machine gun in a tower, in a bunker, on a ship .. In general, where you can place a huge box for a tape for 500-1000 rounds. Plus the possibility of forced cooling, such as Maxim with pipes for pumping water.

        In an open field, for infantry, the tape is rather a minus. And the weight is more and the reloading takes longer and the heating of the barrel will still prevent the use of too long belts. Well, dragging them around the carcass is rather inconvenient .. And a box is 10-15 kg for every 250 rounds. Calculation is needed no less than a branch (as far as I remember, the machine-gun squad of Maxim of the times of the Red Army 8 people).
        1. mat-vey
          mat-vey 15 November 2020 06: 30
          0
          Quote: Saxahorse
          I strongly disagree. Belt feed is uniquely justified for stationary installations, machine gun in a tower, in a bunker, on a ship ..

          What do you say for RMB?
          1. Saxahorse
            Saxahorse 15 November 2020 23: 50
            0
            PKM is a uniquely light machine, only 7.5 kg, but it is carried with a box of only 100 rounds, only 2 Degtyarev's discs. Without a second number with boxes in your teeth, it's almost useless.
  16. YOUR
    YOUR 14 November 2020 03: 35
    +1
    That's right, yes, I have not even heard of this.
  17. Whowhy
    Whowhy 14 November 2020 09: 39
    0
    In addition, the second number of the crew carried a special knapsack pack, which contained two boxes with ribbons for 600 rounds. Shooting from them was carried out without joining arms.

    And this, excuse me, how?
    1. Avior
      Avior 14 November 2020 10: 48
      +3
      Connected via bluetooth smile
      Contactless connection .....
    2. Region-25.rus
      Region-25.rus 14 November 2020 11: 10
      +3
      "which one to the top" - or can a machine gun fire only with a fastened cartridge box?))) The Germans put a box next to each other throughout the war, the Americans, too, did not join the box to "Maxim" either ... and nothing. Somehow they shot the same)))
  18. Konnick
    Konnick 14 November 2020 13: 58
    0
    Quote: Flood
    Was there free production capacity?
    Was it possible to painlessly increase the production of cartridges?
    What place would a machine gun take in an open field battle despite the fact that it is not able to fully replace the 7,62x54 light machine gun?
    Obviously, they came to the conclusion that it was inexpedient.


    In an open area, it was not necessary to replace a conventional machine gun; in an open area, close contact combat could only be in conditions of insufficient visibility. And under normal conditions in open areas and the sighting range of a machine gun would not be enough.
  19. Slipper 2
    Slipper 2 15 November 2020 13: 12
    0
    "Hitler's circular saw" negative
    Plush scribblers come up with a gag, the Russian will simply / briefly name / call it:
    "Hitler's saw"
    1. agond
      agond 17 November 2020 19: 44
      0
      Perhaps the designers expected that their machine gun with a 7.62x25mm cartridge would create a greater density of fire at a distance of up to 500m (plus a large ammunition load) than the German "saw" with a 7.92x57mm cartridge, and why not, if this is so in an open place in a duel situations LAD could suppress MG-42
  20. Bobrovsky
    Bobrovsky 19 November 2020 18: 22
    0
    The bullet speed of the TT cartridge is 420 meters per second, from the submachine gun a little more. Where did these 600 meters come from? Additional powder or what?
  21. alien308
    alien308 23 November 2020 03: 12
    0
    Faustpatronikov is just right to drive. To carry scouts with them just in case for a fleeting battle.