Military Review

How the British sank Italian battleships in Taranto

80
How the British sank Italian battleships in Taranto
Italian battleship Conte di Cavour sunk in Taranto


80 years ago a British deck aviation successfully attacked the Italian naval base in Taranto. As a result, 3 battleships were severely damaged. The night in Taranto became an example for the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.

Situation in the Mediterranean


The entry of Italy into World War II led to the fact that the armed struggle spread to almost the entire Mediterranean Sea. As part of the Italian fleet there were 4 battleships, 8 heavy cruisers, 14 light cruisers, over 120 destroyers and torpedo boats, over 110 submarines.

At first, Britain and France had an advantage at sea over Italy, which relied on bases in the central and eastern Mediterranean. The Italians were inferior in large surface ships (the Allies had 10 battleships, 3 aircraft carriers, 9 heavy cruisers), but had an advantage in aviation - over 1,5 aircraft.

The situation changed radically after the surrender of France, which fell under the blows of the Wehrmacht. To prevent the transfer of the French fleet under the control of Germany and Italy, the British carried out a series of attacks on the French naval forces and bases (Operation "Catapult". How the British drowned the French fleet). As a result, the British were able to turn off the Vichy French fleet.

In the summer of 1940, the Italian fleet in the Mediterranean was solving several important tasks. Provided sea transportation from Italy to Libya, supporting troops in African colonies. Tried to blockade the central straits of the Mediterranean, disrupting British supplies to Malta. Carried out the defense of the Italian coast, its bases and ports.

The British fleet, in turn, was engaged in escorting convoys to Malta from the west and east, in some cases from Gibraltar to Alexandria. Supported the coastal flank of the army in Egypt. Disrupted enemy communications between Italy and Africa.

Failures of the Italian Navy


To solve these problems, the British and Italian fleets more than once went to sea both in separate detachments and in the main forces. At the same time, the British at sea showed greater determination and activity than the Italians. The Italian command preferred to evade the battle. In the summer of 1940, the Italians laid mines in the Strait of Tunis and on the approaches to their bases. The submarine fleet was deployed. Malta was attacked by the Italian Air Force. But these actions did not produce any tangible results. In turn, at the end of June, the British attacked an Italian convoy in the Crete region (one Italian destroyer was killed).

On July 9, there was a battle between two fleets near Calabria. The British fleet was commanded by Admiral Andrew Cunningham. It consisted of 3 battleships, 1 aircraft carrier, 5 light cruisers and 16 destroyers. Italian Navy - Admiral Inigo Campioni. It consisted of 2 battleships, 6 heavy cruisers, 8 light cruisers and 16 destroyers. The Italians could count on the support of coastal aviation and the submarine fleet. Italian aircraft were able to damage the light cruiser Gloucester. During the collision of the main forces and the skirmish, the gunners of the British battleship "Worspite" hit the Italian flagship "Giulio Cesare". Campioni decided to end the battle and, under the cover of a smoke screen, led the ships away. The battle showed the indecision of the Italian naval command, the inadequacy of air reconnaissance and the unsatisfactory interaction between the fleet and aviation.

On July 19, 1940, the British defeated the Italians at Cape Spada in the Crete region. An English detachment led by John Collins (one light cruiser and 5 destroyers) defeated the Italian 2nd division of light cruisers consisting of the Giovanni delle Bande Nere and Bartolomeo Colleoni under the command of Rear Admiral Ferdinando Cassardi. One Italian cruiser was killed - "Bartolomeo Colleoni" (over 650 people were captured or killed), the other fled. Once again, the British showed superiority in the level of training of command and personnel. And the Italian Air Force failed the reconnaissance task in the area, as well as supporting the ships, although their bases were only half an hour away from the site of the sea battle.

Another weakness of the Italian fleet was technical lag and crew training. This was especially true of actions at night, the use of torpedoes, radars and sonars. The Italian ships were nearly blind at night. Italian science, technology and industry lagged far behind the advanced powers. During the war, the Italian navy had to pay dearly for these shortcomings. Another problem is the lack of fuel. Mussolini believed that the war would be short, but he was wrong. The fleet had to restrict the movement of ships in order to save oil.


Burning cruiser "Bartolomeo Colleoni" in the battle at Cape Spada

Taranto attack


By the fall of 1940, the Italian fleet was reinforced with two new Littorio-class battleships, the Littorio and the Vittorio Veneto. On August 31 and September 6, the Italian fleet went to sea twice to defeat England's Mediterranean fleet. But without success. All six battleships of Italy were based in Taranto (Southern Italy). There were also heavy and light cruisers and destroyers. The port and base were covered with anti-aircraft guns and barrage balloons. The Italians wanted to install network barriers. But the Italian industry did not manage to fulfill the order. Also, many high-ranking naval officers did not like this idea, since the strengthening of the network barriers could slow down the movement of ships from the port and back. As a result, the project was postponed. In addition, the existing networks did not sink to the very bottom. And the new British torpedoes had such a depth setting to pass under the barrage nets.

In October 1940, when Italy attacked Greece (How the mediocre Italian blitzkrieg failed in Greece), the Italian fleet began to perform another task - it provided sea communications to Albania.

The British, in turn, now sought to disrupt enemy communications, create a line for the transfer of forces and supplies from Egypt to Greece. They needed to hurry. And the safe but long way through Africa was no longer there. I had to lead a convoy across the Mediterranean. Three battleships covered him from Gibraltar, three from Alexandria. I had to risk going through the Sicilian Strait. Create superiority over Italian battleships. This concentration of forces deprived the Mediterranean fleet of freedom of action. The British could not effectively guard their communications and disrupt enemy communications at the same time. And the battle on the high seas, after the commissioning of two new Italian battleships, was dangerous. It was obvious that it was necessary to deliver a powerful blow to the base in Taranto, to destroy the core of the Italian fleet. Fortunately, such an operation has been planned for a long time. The Italian ships were overcrowded and were good targets for aviation. And the base's air defense system was weak for such a strategic facility.

Almost the entire British Mediterranean fleet took part in the operation: 5 battleships, 1 aircraft carrier, 8 cruisers and 22 destroyers. Part of the fleet provided cover for the operation. The strike group included the aircraft carrier "Illastries", 8 escort ships (4 cruisers and 4 destroyers). On the evening of November 11, 1940, the British completed their deployment. The aircraft carrier is located 170 miles from Taranto, off the island of Kefalonia. To divert the attention of the enemy, part of the forces was sent to the Otrant Strait. This strait between the coasts of Italy and Albania connects the Adriatic and Ionian seas.

The reconnaissance aircraft took pictures of the enemy base. They were transferred to an aircraft carrier. Admiral Cunningham decided to attack that very night. The operation was attended by two groups of torpedo bombers Fairey Swordfish ("sword-fish"). At about 20:40 the first wave took off - 12 aircraft (6 aircraft served as bombers, 6 as torpedo bombers). The second wave of 8 aircraft (5 torpedo bombers and 3 bombers) took off an hour after the first. The aircraft carried 450 mm torpedoes. The depth of the Taranto harbor was comparatively shallow, and conventional torpedoes, after being dropped from an aircraft, would have buried themselves in the ground. Therefore, the British equipped them with wooden stabilizers, so that when dropped into the water, the projectile would not go to depth.

At about 23 pm, the British attacked the oil depots, seaplanes and ships. Following the bombers at low altitude, torpedo bombers approached in order to slip the barrage balloons. The moon, flares provided good lighting. The enemy ships were clearly visible. The battleship Conte di Cavour received a heavy hit from one of the torpedoes and partially sank. The newest battleship Littorio was hit by two torpedoes. The first torpedo made a hole measuring approximately 7,5x6 meters. The second - made a through hole from the left side to the right, partially destroying the steering gear. The aircraft of the second wave struck the battleship Cayo Duilio with one torpedo. A large gap formed in the starboard side, the ship partially sank. The Littorio received another blow (one more torpedo did not explode). A huge hole was formed - about 12x8 meters. The battleship landed on the ground. The bombs also damaged the aircraft, the cruiser and the destroyer.


Italian battleship "Littorio", damaged as a result of an attack by British torpedo bombers

Pearl Harbor rehearsal


The Littorio was raised and already in December brought into the dry dock for repairs, in the spring of 1941 it was returned to service. The Cayo Duilio was also raised and in January 1941 transferred to Genoa for repairs and returned to service. The battleship Cavour was raised only in 1941 and sent to Trieste for repairs. He never went to sea again.

Given the small number of aircraft that took part in the operation, the success was obvious. The British lost only two vehicles during the attack. The main forces of the Italian fleet were incapacitated for some time, the personnel were demoralized. Italy has two battleships left in the ranks - "Giulio Caesare" and "Veneto". The third - "Doria" - was undergoing modernization. Moreover, in order to avoid new attacks in Taranto, the main forces of the fleet were transferred to Naples. Also, the Italians had to strengthen the protection of sea routes to Albania. Britain achieved dominance in the Mediterranean. Therefore, the British Admiralty was able to transfer part of its forces to the Atlantic. True, it was still far from complete victory over the Italian fleet. Part of the British fleet still defended the sea communications, while the other supported the coastal flank of the army in North Africa.

The successful British attack on Taranto again showed the poor performance of the Italian Air Force. They were unable to detect the enemy's fleet at sea and cover the most important naval base of Italy. All day on November 11, British ships sailed through the center of the Ionian Sea and were not detected. Although the Italians, in the normal work of aerial reconnaissance, had to identify the enemy off their coast and bring ships to sea in order to give battle. Also, the night in Taranto showed the effectiveness of aviation against large surface ships. Small and cheap planes were able to sink huge and very expensive battleships.

However, then only the Japanese paid attention to this successful experience. A group of Japanese military specialists arrived in Italy and carefully studied this battle. The Japanese used this experience in a successful attack against the American fleet at Pearl Harbor.


Italian battleship Conte di Cavour during the ascent from the bottom in Taranto
Author:
Photos used:
https://ru.wikipedia.org/, http://waralbum.ru/
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  1. Fitter65
    Fitter65 15 November 2020 06: 50
    21
    Following the bombers on low altitude to pass obstacle balloons, torpedo bombers approached
    The danger of an obstacle balloon is not in the balloon itself, but in the cable with which it is attached to the ground. It was by clinging to the cable that the aircraft received damage. Therefore, skipping at low altitude under barrage balloons, the chance to ditch the plane only increased.
    1. 27091965
      27091965 15 November 2020 11: 52
      +3
      Quote: Fitter65
      "Following the bombers at low altitude, torpedo bombers approached to slip through the barrage balloons."

      The danger of an obstacle balloon is not in the balloon itself, but in the cable with which it is attached to the ground. It was by clinging to the cable that the aircraft received damage. Therefore, skipping at low altitude under barrage balloons, the chance to ditch the plane only increased.


      The report indicates that part of the Swordfish flew between the cables of the balloons. The location of the balloons can be seen on the English raid plan for Taranto.
  2. Kot_Kuzya
    Kot_Kuzya 15 November 2020 06: 55
    -17 qualifying.
    All these battleships and heavy cruisers are just a waste of resources. Hitler just had to capture Gibraltar and Suez, and that's it, the Mediterranean Sea becomes clear of the British fleet. Hitler was a lousy strategist.
    1. tlauicol
      tlauicol 15 November 2020 07: 04
      26
      "how to grab Gibraltar from the couch" yes
      1build a stronger fleet than the British.
      2involve Spain in the war
      3provide Spain with food (her America was fed in exchange for neutrality)
      4 rebuild rails in Spain
      5pull troops to Gibraltar
      6 build airfields, pull off aircraft
      all-grab good
      1. Kot_Kuzya
        Kot_Kuzya 15 November 2020 07: 43
        -13 qualifying.
        Quote: Tlauicol
        1build a stronger fleet than the British.

        No need, Gibraltar is captured from land.
        Quote: Tlauicol
        2involve Spain in the war

        It was easy to involve Spain and Turkey in your union, Hitler simply did not bother about this, he saw the USSR as his main prey.
        Quote: Tlauicol
        3provide Spain with food (her America was fed in exchange for neutrality)

        Spain has a subtropical climate, stick a stick, it will bloom.
        Quote: Tlauicol
        4 rebuild rails in Spain

        Is there a different track in Spain? belay
        Quote: Tlauicol
        5pull troops to Gibraltar

        Anything is easier than pulling 4 million soldiers to the Soviet border.
        Quote: Tlauicol
        6 build airfields, pull off aircraft

        The area of ​​Gibraltar is 6,5 square kilometers, bombing it completely is a simple and doable task.
        1. Cartalon
          Cartalon 15 November 2020 08: 15
          18
          It is a pity that Franco did not know that he just had to stick sticks, and instead demanded grain from the Germans.
          1. Kot_Kuzya
            Kot_Kuzya 15 November 2020 08: 37
            -18 qualifying.
            Wheat doesn't grow in Spain? It's strange. So Spain has a climate like Chukotka, which does not allow growing wheat?
            1. Cartalon
              Cartalon 15 November 2020 08: 38
              10
              Spaniards grow better than wheat
              1. Kot_Kuzya
                Kot_Kuzya 15 November 2020 10: 10
                -18 qualifying.

                Are you his son or grandson?
            2. Blacksmith 55
              Blacksmith 55 15 November 2020 09: 52
              10
              Spain does not really have a very good climate for cereals. Rains are rare in summer. It rains mainly in winter, and if it happens in summer, it is a flood, rain streams take away everything in its path.
              1. Kot_Kuzya
                Kot_Kuzya 15 November 2020 10: 08
                -11 qualifying.
                Apparently, in the Middle East and North Africa, where the first civilizations based on wheat culture arose, the climate is rainy than in Spain.
                1. Cartalon
                  Cartalon 15 November 2020 11: 10
                  +8
                  If you are not banned on Google, you will easily find that Spain is on the 10th place in the world of wheat imports, Spain does not provide itself with food
                  1. Kot_Kuzya
                    Kot_Kuzya 15 November 2020 11: 17
                    -12 qualifying.
                    And what, in the 1940s, only the United States and Britain were grain exporters?
                    1. Cartalon
                      Cartalon 15 November 2020 11: 19
                      +5
                      Britain was not, it bought itself, but the Atlantic was controlled by Britain, so if Spain rock the boat there will be hunger.
                      1. Kot_Kuzya
                        Kot_Kuzya 15 November 2020 12: 10
                        -8
                        Why would Britain buy grain if it includes the granaries of Canada and Australia?
                  2. pmkemcity
                    pmkemcity 15 November 2020 12: 38
                    +6
                    Quote: Cartalon
                    If you are not banned on Google, you will easily find that Spain is on the 10th place in the world of wheat imports, Spain does not provide itself with food

                    It's just that "more expensive" products are grown in Spain, and it is not economically profitable to give land for wheat, and everything grows there twice a year.
            3. Sergey Oreshin
              Sergey Oreshin 15 November 2020 11: 42
              +5
              Spain is very different. A significant part of the country is arid semi-deserts related to the area of ​​risky farming. In the same place, from time immemorial, cattle breeding was widespread, and agriculture was not very
            4. Kwas
              Kwas 15 November 2020 18: 15
              +9
              The most important point was "2 to involve Spain in the war", because Franco absolutely did not want to. In words, he was Hitler's "friend, comrade and brother", and throughout the war he had good contact with the allies, in particular, informing them. When Hitler began to insist on storming Gibraltar, he asked for advice, and he was advised to ask Hitler for at least 10 siege weapons with a caliber of at least 280mm. So he did, and they were not in all of Germany. Hitler promised him as much aviation as he wanted, but he did not agree. and that was where the story ended.
              And the history of Spanish "neutrality" continued when Franco gave the allies a place for airbases in the Balearic Islands.
              As a result of such a far-sighted policy, Franco was the only fascist leader who calmly survived the war.
              1. Kwas
                Kwas 15 November 2020 18: 18
                +2
                Addition. By the way, it was far from easy to capture Gibraltar. At one time the Spaniards really wanted, but could not. Perhaps the most colorful description of the Gibraltar fortifications was left by Bronevsky in his Notes on Senyavin.
              2. Alexey RA
                Alexey RA 16 November 2020 14: 54
                +2
                Quote: Kwas
                When Hitler began to insist on storming Gibraltar, he asked for advice, and he was advised to ask Hitler for at least 10 siege weapons with a caliber of at least 280mm. So he did, and they were not in all of Germany. Hitler promised him as much aviation as he wanted, but he did not agree. the story ended there.

                EMNIP, Franco, in order to guarantee the failure of negotiations on Operation Felix, also requested the transfer of the African colonies to France to Spain. In general, I did everything to ensure that the parties did not agree. smile
            5. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 16 November 2020 10: 31
              +5
              Quote: Kot_Kuzya
              Wheat doesn't grow in Spain? It's strange. So Spain has a climate like Chukotka, which does not allow growing wheat?

              What does the climate have to do with it? In Spain, only three years ago the Civil War ended. And agriculture after this war is in full fifth point.
              Oh yes - GW ended only officially. In fact, in 1941. Franco controlled only part of the country. Which also did not add food.
      2. Cartalon
        Cartalon 15 November 2020 07: 44
        +9
        You were told to capture it simply, but you write difficult.
        1. tlauicol
          tlauicol 15 November 2020 09: 07
          +8
          Quote: Cartalon
          You were told to capture it simply, but you write difficult.

          well, yes, we would have crossed the ice, and business wassat
      3. Bagatur
        Bagatur 15 November 2020 10: 54
        +4
        After the defeat of France, there was a meeting between Hitler and Franco. Then the Fuehrer said that it is better to remove the teeth without anesthesia than repeat ...
      4. smart ass
        smart ass 15 November 2020 14: 17
        11
        Lucky for the USSR and the states that Hitler did not have a Kuzi cat in 1939 !!! Thank you for being born after the cat!
      5. WapentakeLokki
        WapentakeLokki 15 November 2020 19: 18
        -2
        ... not everyone can look into the future ... or rather, he can look ... but someone will give him !!!
    2. unknown
      unknown 15 November 2020 07: 39
      -8
      Not in vain. The Italian fleet fought during the WWII. And gave the British a lot of headaches.
      The French fleet was a waste of resources. The expression that Italians are better at building ships than fighting on them is actually about French. In both world wars, the French fleet did not show itself in anything. What was, what was not.
      Which is not surprising. From the point of view of astrology, people born in the year of the Goat are strongly discouraged from engaging in POLITICS, COMMERCIAL AND MILITARY AFFAIRS. Failure is guaranteed.
      This also applies to countries: Poland, Ukraine, France. In fact, during its real existence, and not invented by pseudo-historians - science fiction writers, that is, starting with Napoleon, the real Napoleon (whom pseudo-historians call the Third), France has not won victories, except for the "miracle of WWI". But this "miracle" happened only thanks to the support of the Russian Empire and Great Britain.
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 15 November 2020 07: 52
        16
        I apologize, but how does the year of the Goat manifest itself in relation to France and Ukraine? During Rocroix did the eclipse interfere?

        I'm going to listen to Shaov's Astrological.
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 15 November 2020 16: 20
          +5
          ... the eclipse intervened?
          - the values ​​do not affect - it is said, Goat, or Goat (which is typical) and there should be no questions!
          Hello, Sergey. Once I read in one of our science fiction stories about how humanoids flew to Earth during the heyday of "Ancient" Greece. Well, their historian went in the afternoon with a lantern to look for a "reasonable" person. Found three, sitting arguing about the shape of the earth. The historian tells them, round and spinning. And one of the disputants replies to him: "Flat, and stands on three whales!" - And as proof he bit his finger.
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 15 November 2020 16: 40
            +4
            Hi Constantine!

            The evidence does not have to be varied.
            Either matter - weighty. Especially when you throw stones from above.
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 15 November 2020 16: 48
              +2
              Something I immediately remembered Sisyphus. laughing
              1. Korsar4
                Korsar4 15 November 2020 17: 02
                +2
                And how much such work do we have ?!
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 15 November 2020 17: 41
                  +3
                  And where Denissi ... I want the best, but it turns out as always. request
          2. hohol95
            hohol95 15 November 2020 23: 54
            +1
            And that humanoid died from infection of his blue blood - the Greek brushed his teeth badly ... good
        2. Niel-le-Calais
          Niel-le-Calais 16 November 2020 16: 40
          +1
          Quote: Korsar4
          I'm going to listen to Shaov's Astrological.

          you can fit the whole story .. If there is a problem.
          It was a full moon, Friday the thirteenth, 666, nothing boded well ..
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 16 November 2020 16: 52
            +1
            Today is the 16th. You can live in peace.

            “They have, you see, the conflict between Jupiter and Pluto.
            And you sit here, drink seagulls, tough as a stupid person ”(c).
      2. Cartalon
        Cartalon 15 November 2020 08: 03
        +9
        Wow, the Fomenkoids got to Napoleon, forward and upward, prove that there was no WWI either, there could not be two world wars with an interval of 20 years, this is stupid.
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 15 November 2020 17: 26
          +9
          And the endless emperors Alexandra and Nicolai? laughing
          The hedgehog understands that he was
          one Alexander, one Nikolai, one Empress Elizabeth-Catherine.
          And stupid historians have made holes in the chronology and multiplied kings.
          And the February-October-nine hundred and fifth year revolution
          made by Kerensky-Ulyanov, nicknamed "Lenin". am
          Fomenko rules everywhere and always fellow
          1. Cartalon
            Cartalon 15 November 2020 20: 55
            +2
            How can one carry such a heresy was one Tsar Alexander Nikolaevich Macedon, nicknamed Nevsky, this is all to know negative
      3. Kot_Kuzya
        Kot_Kuzya 15 November 2020 08: 07
        -6
        In 1848, the English protege Napoleon the Third came to power in France, as gratitude for helping London in seizing power, Napoleon the Third sent his soldiers as cannon fodder to die for the sake of British interests in the Eastern War, better known as the Crimean War. France suffered a crushing defeat in 1871, and since then has been firmly in the wake of British foreign policy as a junior partner out of fear of Germany.
        1. Kwas
          Kwas 15 November 2020 18: 25
          +2
          Strange, but why was this your post minus? Every word is right there and then! But do not be offended, there are such morals that if a person is clearly mistaken in something, there are immediately those who begin to minus all his posts in a row. I've put a plus sign!
        2. Niel-le-Calais
          Niel-le-Calais 16 November 2020 17: 04
          0
          Quote: Kot_Kuzya
          In 1848, the English protege Napoleon the Third came to power in France, as gratitude for helping London in seizing power, Napoleon the Third sent his soldiers as cannon fodder to die for the sake of British interests in the Eastern War, better known as the Crimean War.

          Napoleon 3 came on the glory of Napoleon Bonaparte
          with the money of Harriet Howard, his mistress, a beautiful woman. And Napoleon himself had neither money nor appearance, nothing ... except a big name. But she adored him.
          and England wrote this about him
          "From parasites, pimps and prostitutes",
          until 1860 France successfully fought with him at the head
          Then the decline began, and then the German teacher.
          The Eastern War was a triumph for Napoleon, the greatest in his history.
          1. Kot_Kuzya
            Kot_Kuzya 16 November 2020 17: 25
            -2
            Quote: Niel-le-Calais
            for the money of Harriet Howard, his mistress, a beautiful woman.

            Sure sure. And Gorbachev came to power with Raika's money.
            Quote: Niel-le-Calais
            and England wrote this about him
            "From parasites, pimps and prostitutes",

            Not "England" wrote, but some newspapers wrote. Or do you think that there are no media outlets in the United States and Britain that praise Russia and Putin?
            1. Niel-le-Calais
              Niel-le-Calais 16 November 2020 21: 43
              0
              Quote: Kot_Kuzya
              Sure sure. And Gorbachev came to power with Raika's money.

              I do not think that Gorbachev had 51 (official) mistresses and one of them was
              the daughter of a shoemaker, who received a large inheritance from her patron Major Martin, which allowed her to finance the presidential campaign of Napoleon III in 1848 and partly the coup of 1851. In gratitude, she received from the emperor the title of Countess de Beauregard de Becheve and the castle in La Sel-Saint-Cloud.
              née Elizabeth Ann Harriett Harriet Howard is a red-haired beast, a very dignified girl.
              Together with Matilda (Napoleon's cousin) they financed everything, while being enemies.
              Oh, those French. They even have such great women and they honor their favorites. For the great favorites decided the fate of the world.
              Quote: Kot_Kuzya
              Not England wrote, but some newspapers wrote.

              The newspapers of the then England also decided fate. For example The Times. Even Raglan was shocked by them, and so was Vika.
              And if they formed such an opinion, then it is hardly for a diversion.
              Lord Palmerston also provided participation in the Eastern War.
              And England bought the participation of France without buying Napoleon 3 personally! And as it turned out later that France was the leader of this whole war. And Anglia ... was a donor and a driver.
    3. mr.ZinGer
      mr.ZinGer 15 November 2020 10: 17
      +3
      You forgot to mention Malta, Alexandria and the number of forces you need to capture.
      1. Kot_Kuzya
        Kot_Kuzya 15 November 2020 10: 34
        -8
        If the Germans can control Gibraltar and Suez, then there is no need to capture Malta and Alexandria, without the support of the fleet and the provision of food and ammunition by sea, the British will simply have nothing to eat and nothing to shoot with.
        1. mr.ZinGer
          mr.ZinGer 15 November 2020 10: 58
          +4
          Yes, the question is where to get the power for this. At one time I read that the refusal to seize Malta was one of Hitler's strategic mistakes, and its seizure was more real.
          1. Kot_Kuzya
            Kot_Kuzya 15 November 2020 11: 10
            -6
            There were only two German divisions in the German Africa Corps. Whereas for the attack on the USSR, Hitler allocated 190 divisions, of which 32 are tank and motorized. If Hitler had sent these forces to seize British possessions in Africa, the Middle East and India, then in the spring of 1942 German and Japanese troops would have met somewhere on the Brahmaputra River,
            1. Ryazan87
              Ryazan87 15 November 2020 13: 54
              +9
              (with interest) - what are your proposals for supplying the grouping at least 19 divisions in North Africa? (as I understand, you are proposing to capture Suez by march from Libya).
              And so, curiously, what do you know about the negotiations between Hitler and Franco on the entry of Spain into the war?
              And yes, indeed, Spain has a different railway track (the so-called Iberian) - 1668 mm. And the country is a little ruined by more than 3 years of civil war.
              1. Kot_Kuzya
                Kot_Kuzya 16 November 2020 03: 42
                -4
                Suez can be captured by a brisk march from Sinai, using allied Bulgaria and Turkey as transit countries for the transfer of troops.
                1. Ryazan87
                  Ryazan87 16 November 2020 11: 26
                  +1
                  There is little to do: to persuade Turkey to join a military alliance (in reality, the same Spain is much more pro-German) or to occupy it. But this circumstance will greatly disturb the USSR. Next, you need to capture Syria (there, however, there is hope for the Vichists - they fought with the British in our reality, but it is not very clear how they will react to the Germans) and, preferably, Iraq (there is theoretically a chance for Rashid Ali's mutiny, but against Germans play the time factor). Further, Palestine and Jordan, where large groupings of British troops and aircraft are concentrated.
                  Long haul leg - think how long the train from Germany will travel to Syria (consider the need to cross the straits). I hope there are no illusions about the capacity of the Bulgarian and Turkish railways. By the way, is the Balkan campaign being carried out in this alternative? Yugoslavia, Greece - what's wrong with them?
            2. Kwas
              Kwas 15 November 2020 18: 40
              +2
              Quote: Kot_Kuzya
              If Hitler had sent these forces to seize British possessions in Africa,

              ... then the Germans, for example, would not have been able to encircle the South-Western Front and take Kiev, Kharkov and Donbass.
              On the contrary, Hitler took away from Rommel even what he had promised by sending against us.
              1. Kot_Kuzya
                Kot_Kuzya 16 November 2020 03: 43
                -3
                Quote: Kwas
                ... then the Germans, for example, would not have been able to encircle the South-Western Front and take Kiev, Kharkov and Donbass.

                In this alternative, Hitler does not attack the USSR, but throws all his efforts against Britain.
                1. Kwas
                  Kwas 16 November 2020 22: 04
                  +1
                  Ah, if there were no war ...
                  Of course, Hitler got into the USSR in vain. And we would be better off. But was such a scenario real, that is the question?
          2. Kwas
            Kwas 15 November 2020 18: 33
            +3
            The importance of Malta for supply and the fight for it is brief and good in Nimitz - "War at sea".
  3. mr.ZinGer
    mr.ZinGer 15 November 2020 11: 44
    +6
    Mr. Samsonov recounted the Christomatic facts in his own words, and added his own explanations, many of which are surprising.
    [/ Quote]Italian science, technology and industry lagged far behind the advanced powers.[Quote]
    And we bought warships and technologies from Italians.
    Anti-torpedo nets, in the explanation of the absence of which the author himself got confused.
    Link to the article by Klim Zhukov https://warspot.ru/2205-reyd-na-taranto
    Link to the video https://youtu.be/7XpTrzZ8IJY
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 15 November 2020 16: 27
      +4
      And we bought warships from the Italians

      We bought one "Tashkent", and then, gun mounts and fire control devices were installed domestically. In general, the Italian navy and army is a separate sad song, there is nothing to argue about.
      True, there was also the tenth flotilla of the IAS of Prince Valerio, but this was an exception, only emphasizing the general rule.
      1. 27091965
        27091965 15 November 2020 17: 13
        +8
        Quote: Sea Cat
        We bought one "Tashkent", and then, the gun mounts and fire control devices were installed domestically.


        The Italians built two more patrol ships for the USSR. In March 1935 they were named Kirov and Dzerzhinsky. The ships had a total displacement of 1161 tons. The ships were armed with three 102/60-mm cannons of the Obukhov plant and four 45-mm semiautomatic devices of 21 K. The fire control system was from the Italian company Galileo. Each ship was equipped with two 3-meter rangefinders. The Italians provided the USSR with torpedoes from the Neapolitan and Fiume factories. Our experts preferred Fiium torpedoes of 45 cm and 53 cm caliber. The first ones were intended for old destroyers of the Novik type and cruisers of the Krasny Kavkaz type, and 53 cm torpedoes were intended for new ships and submarines. There were also seaplanes, anti-aircraft guns, turbines, boilers, etc.
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 15 November 2020 17: 39
          +3
          Thank you, Igor, I didn't know about the patrolmen. hi
      2. mr.ZinGer
        mr.ZinGer 15 November 2020 19: 14
        +6
        The initial design of the Kirov cruiser was based on the design of the Raimondo Montecuccoli cruiser, but the final design was based on the theoretical drawing of the Eugenio di Savoia cruiser, a further development of the Raimondo Montecuccoli cruiser. The full package of technical documents for the ship was purchased by the Soviet side from the Italian company Ansaldo
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 16 November 2020 11: 53
          +4
          Hello Vladimir. hi
          Yes, they are all similar to each other.
          "Savoy"

          "Montecucoli"
      3. Undecim
        Undecim 15 November 2020 19: 54
        12
        We bought one "Tashkent"
        And why were the cruisers of Project 26 redrawn? Torpedoes 45–36 and 53–38, seven destroyers. If we list everything, we will reach mirrors for spotlights from Officine Galileo.
        1. hohol95
          hohol95 15 November 2020 23: 58
          +2
          And what were they selling?
          So money was needed.
          And Italian business wanted to spit on the worldwide "fight against Bolshevism."
          And after WWI, the allies forgot about the promises made by the Italian and they were left with only large debts to the United States and Great Britain.
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 16 November 2020 00: 03
            +3
            In general, it was not about the fight against Bolshevism, but about the fact that Italy had a fairly decent military industry. And everyone needed money. The Americans were selling entire factories.
            1. hohol95
              hohol95 16 November 2020 00: 10
              +3
              They sold the factories, but did not seek cooperation in the military sphere.
              It is clear that it is realistic to produce armored vehicles at an automobile plant. And at the tractor plant - tanks. But they still need to be designed and the production of the necessary parts should be launched at related enterprises.
              The Italians were more "open" on this issue.
              1. Undecim
                Undecim 16 November 2020 00: 40
                +4
                In the military sphere, cooperation with the United States in the thirties was at a very serious level.
                Take aviation, for example.
                Soviet specialists from TsAGI freely visited American aviation research centers, laboratories and enterprises.
                Soviet pilots took part in testing new American aircraft.
                The USSR bought samples of aircraft for its own research and licenses for the production of aircraft and aircraft engines.
                The first variable pitch propellers in the USSR were produced under an American license. You can continue for a long time. Even the airfield equipment was bought in the USA.
                1. 27091965
                  27091965 16 November 2020 11: 59
                  +2
                  Quote: Undecim
                  In the military sphere, cooperation with the United States in the thirties was at a very serious level.


                  I can't write anything about aviation, but on the issue of building leaders and destroyers for the USSR in the United States, the Navy Department created very strong obstacles to the implementation of this program. At the same time, he persistently tried to promote, for the USSR, the construction of destroyers of the "Mahan" type, which by 1939, when these negotiations were going on, was considered obsolete. When, nevertheless, it was possible to resolve the issue of designing a more advanced destroyer for the USSR, the work was supposed to be performed by "Gibbs and Cox Incorporated", the Navy Department again began to create obstacles for the continuation of this work, either demanded not to install improved boilers on these ships, then prohibited the installation on them USA-made fire control systems. It makes no sense to quote all these negotiations in a comment. It can be written that in terms of the Navy, the United States did not strive for full cooperation.
                  1. Undecim
                    Undecim 16 November 2020 13: 54
                    +1
                    You can write that in terms of the Navy, the United States did not seek full cooperation.
                    If by full-fledged cooperation we mean the transfer of the latest technologies, especially after the signing of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, then yes, they did not strive.
                    1. 27091965
                      27091965 16 November 2020 14: 30
                      +2
                      Quote: Undecim
                      If by full-fledged cooperation we mean the transfer of the latest technologies, especially after the signing of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, then yes, they did not strive.


                      Dear Undecim, on the events taking place in Europe and the actions of the USSR, Gibbs and Cox Incorporated filed a request for further action regarding the order of the USSR and received an answer;

                      "- the department cannot add anything at this time to the information you have already received regarding the policy of the US government for the construction of warships in our country for the government of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

                      - at least two and a half years will pass before these destroyers are ready to launch. and since the naval department could at any time, before proceeding with the delivery, requisition the destroyers, if the policy of our government so requires, it seems to me superfluous to move on to the question of politics at the present time.
                      "Memorandum by the Chief of the Division of Controls 06.09.1939/XNUMX/XNUMX
                  2. Alexey RA
                    Alexey RA 16 November 2020 14: 59
                    +1
                    Quote: 27091965i
                    At the same time, he persistently tried to promote, for the USSR, the construction of destroyers of the "Mahan" type, which by 1939, when these negotiations were going on, was considered obsolete.

                    "Mahen" is still okay. EMNIP, in the end a ban was issued on the export to the USSR of "marine" technologies and products under 10 years old - so the USSR could only get "flashdeckers" and flew with a whistle past the 127/38 station wagons.
              2. Catfish
                Catfish 16 November 2020 11: 46
                +5
                Alexey hi You forgot about such a small episode as the purchase of the Christie tank from the Americans, the further development of which resulted in a whole series of BT tanks. By the way, to establish the production of his brainchild, the inventor of independent suspension John Christie himself came to the USSR.
                1. hohol95
                  hohol95 18 November 2020 23: 10
                  +3
                  At home, it is not enough for him that shone. So he grabbed an order from the USSR. And the US military was only happy with a little respite from the "almighty" Christie,
                  In the USSR there was a "similar character" - NI Dyrenkov Umelets - a nugget with the formation of a craft school at the mechanical-technical school of ME Komarov.
                  He knew how to come up with everything - from an armored car to tank armor and armored cars (motorized armored car D-2). There were serious problems with the technical implementation of ideas in metal!
        2. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 16 November 2020 10: 36
          +3
          Quote: Undecim
          And why were the cruisers of Project 26 redrawn? Torpedoes 45–36 and 53–38, seven destroyers. If we list everything, we will reach mirrors for spotlights from Officine Galileo.

          And to the Italian LK project, which formed the basis for work on ave. 23. And also to the PTZ of the Pugliese system and the 100-mm anti-aircraft guns of Minisini. smile
      4. Macsen_wledig
        Macsen_wledig 19 November 2020 21: 11
        +2
        Quote: Sea Cat
        We bought one "Tashkent", and then, gun mounts and fire control devices were installed domestically

        SUAO was just Italian - "Galileo", and on the leaders of pr.1 and the lead ship pr.38.
  4. Victor Leningradets
    Victor Leningradets 16 November 2020 11: 19
    +1
    Thank you, Alexander!
    Very informative.
    The only remark is that not three, but four torpedoes hit the Littorio. This is evident from the nature of the last breach. A pair of "Swordfish" entered the target and dropped torpedoes simultaneously. 15.06.1942/XNUMX/XNUMX "Littorio" again received the same air torpedo in the same place, but the hole was much smaller.
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 16 November 2020 11: 39
      +3
      The only remark is that not three, but four torpedoes hit the Littorio
      Four hit, but three exploded. The fourth did not explode and was found while lifting the bow. The Italians had to fiddle with it for a long time, as they were afraid that the magnetic fuse of the torpedo would work.
      Garzke, William H .; Dulin, Robert O. (1985). Battleships: Axis and Neutral Battleships in World War II.
  5. Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 16 November 2020 11: 52
    0
    If the Italian fleet came from Taranto to meet the British could beat and worse - they will irrevocably lose ships at sea.
    1. Niel-le-Calais
      Niel-le-Calais 16 November 2020 17: 11
      0
      Quote: Kostadinov
      If the Italian fleet came from Taranto to meet the British could beat and worse - they will irrevocably lose ships at sea

      the failure of the original plan entails risk.
      And maneuvering on the high seas is easier against an aircraft carrier than being targets without movement.
      There was a solid fleet at the base. Even if it was Italians, the British did not plan a battle of the line fleets near Taranto. It was a lightning attack with a "long spear" (aircraft carrier) and not a gauntlet to summon the Italian fleet. It was a risk for the British, but it paid off.
  6. Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 16 November 2020 22: 24
    +2
    Quote: Niel-le-Calais
    There was a solid fleet at the base. Even if it was Italians, but the battle of the line fleets near Taranto, the British did not plan

    I have no bad opinion of the Italian navy. But under the conditions of 1940, if the British managed to find the exit of the Italian ships from Taranto, Suordfish could attack them and hit them (like in Bismarck).
    Besides, I don’t know if the British submarines hit Taranto.
  7. Tavrik
    Tavrik 18 November 2020 18: 09
    +1
    Swordfish are generally handsome. Such an ancient bookcase, and brought so many benefits during the war years. Universal reconnaissance torpedo bomber. And he even survived the plane that was made to replace him.