Military Review

Who won the war in Karabakh?

110
Indeed, who won the conflict in Karabakh? Nominally, it turns out that Azerbaijan. Not really. Azerbaijan lost this war - and quite unexpectedly. And now you can comfort yourself as much as you like with the fact of acquiring land by, let's say, sudden, but prepared aggression. But the fact is that the results of the war were very, very unpredictable.



Everyone pursued their own goals


It is a fact that Azerbaijan was winning this war "with a clear advantage", while official Yerevan was engaged in processes that are difficult to understand and, in fact, simply let everything go by itself.

The fact that the NKR "army" was unable to cope with the Azerbaijani armed forces, and even with the support of Turkey, is understandable.

The fact that Armenia stubbornly waited, that Russia was about to intervene and begin to defend its ... ally, this is also obvious. The Internet is now replete with statements like: "We were betrayed!" (performed by Armenians).

But you must agree, all these people who, on the night of the signing of the armistice, smashed state buildings, beat the deputies and performed other "feats", why did they heroic in Yerevan, and not in Shusha?

However, nothing surprising. It happens so often. For throwing a stone at the window of a house is much easier than throwing a grenade at a tank, for example.

So no complaints about the parties: each pursued its own goals.

Who got what


Another question: who got what?

Azerbaijan (as I said) received the territories of three regions. In general, this is more a political moment than an economic one. Because история the confrontation between Armenia and Azerbaijan in Karabakh has been going on for more than a hundred years.

However, having received territories, has Baku solved the Karabakh problem as a whole? No! Moreover, a situation has now arisen there (which we will talk about below), which, in general, nullifies everything.

Who won the war in Karabakh?

Now about Armenia in more detail. In short: Yerevan was not just losing the war, but with a bang. The NKR army has actually ceased its resistance, and official Yerevan practically lied that “everything is under control”.

As a result, in this situation (when Yerevan sat and waited for Moscow to intervene and did nothing at all), the defeat was assured. In theory, Armenia was heading for loss total Karabakh.

Is this not a "gift of fate"? At the moment of complete defeat, get it? Paid, again, Russian lives.

At the cost of Russian lives


Pilots Major Yuri Viktorovich Ischuk and Senior Lieutenant Roman Vasilyevich Fedin actually saved the inevitable defeat in Karabakh at the cost of their lives.

And now no one in Armenia can get away from this.

The “miraculous” (and no other word comes to mind) rescue of the NKR happened precisely due to the very strange situation with the Russian helicopter.

Now many have thrown themselves into conspiracy theories. We began to ask ourselves the question: "What was the Mi-24 doing in the border area at night?" And there are many such ambiguities, which translate the situation into a kind of provocation.

Yes, the Mi-24 may not be the best helicopter for night combat. Maybe even the worst. So what? Our helicopter flew over the territory of Armenia, for which its crew had all the rights and permissions. Reconnaissance, observation, escort - what's the difference, in the end? The helicopter had the right to be in the airspace of Armenia, and on this we put a fat point.

Further. Could or could it not have hit the Azerbaijani crew with a rocket? Point again. Official Baku admitted that the rocket was theirs. They were shooting from their territory. Sorry. Ready to compensate, etc.

The rest of the reflections on the topics: “could or could not”, “by accident or not by accident”, “provocation or not”, etc. - this is already on the conscience of everyone.

In fact, our crew did not shoot at anyone, did not pose a threat to anyone. Therefore, the situation can be interpreted in different ways. But in reality everything turned out in favor of Armenia.

You can also fantasize that this is all rigged. Yes, indeed, everything happened in a very timely manner for the Armenian side. But it happened. Accordingly, it was Major Ischuk's crew that saved hundreds of Armenian lives.

I will repeat for the dull lovers of conspiracy and fantasy: Major Ischuk and Senior Lieutenant Fedin have covered hundreds of Armenian soldiers. And Armenia owes these two pilots, no matter what they say. And it is very much obliged.

Armenia did not lose, Azerbaijan did not win


First of all, it is obliged to keep at least something in Karabakh. Yes, we lost Shushi, which will now be Shusha. We lost three districts. But they kept the rest! And it could have been completely different. Armenian media and officials told tales to the whole caring community. Meanwhile, Azerbaijani troops occupied one square kilometer after another. And they would have occupied the whole of Karabakh at such a pace.

So, in such and such light, the defeat of Armenia is actually not quite a defeat either.
As well as the victory of Azerbaijan, it also looks very ambiguous.

And now we come to the most basic thing. Who won in Karabakh?

Peacekeeping of Russia


And she won in Karabakh Russia.

Let's face it: the victory was with the Russian Federation, even though Russia did not play for anyone.

Indeed, even this spring, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said that the Pashinyan government is considering and discussing "a phased plan for a settlement in Karabakh." A huge number of specialists spoke out about this plan. And most of them admitted that the plan was unacceptable to both sides. And that its implementation can lead to the seizure of Karabakh by Azerbaijan.

Which, in fact, happened.


Nikol Pashinyan. Definitely not an ally of Russia. His dancing with the West was appreciated by everyone. Shouts: “We want to join NATO. The complete disdain he showed for Putin in October 2019. Derogatory statements. - All this did not characterize him as an ally and friend.

Attention, the question: "Why should Russia support such ... a neighbor?"

With Azerbaijan, everything is easier, in my opinion. You can simply cooperate with this country without burdening yourself with any global projects.

When Armenia was seized by the velvet revolution, the vector began to shift rapidly. Turkey is not a friend, Azerbaijan is not an enemy, Georgia is not quite an enemy and Armenia is not a friend: here is the situation in which Russia began to rapidly lose its influence in the Transcaucasus.

It is clear that Turkey would like to replace Russia. A Turk and an Azeri are more than brothers (in the usual sense). It's like an Indian and a Pakistani. One people, simply divided by borders.

And the union of Turkey and Azerbaijan is a strong and strong union, which is not entirely realistic to destroy. And this alliance could easily determine the policy beyond the Caucasian ridge.

conclusions


What do we have today?

The incident with the Russian helicopter turned Russia: from the status of an "observer" to the status of an "injured party". Azerbaijan immediately backed down, and Armenia exhaled.

Yes, Azerbaijan returned a significant part of "its" territories, which belonged to it for a long time. But the problem of Karabakh itself will not be solved yet.

Moreover, the "victorious" Azerbaijan received Russia in its "acquired" territories as an observer and controller.

It is the Russian peacekeepers who will monitor the implementation of the signed documents and monitor the ceasefire over the next five years.


It is the Russian border guards who will control the work of the Lachin corridor between Karabakh and Armenia and a similar corridor between Azerbaijan and the Nakhichevan Autonomous Republic.

It was Russia that regained control of the region. Even if she didn’t want to.

You can now talk a lot about what was the cause: a fatal accident or a well-planned operation.

The fact is that Russia is again in the political game of the Transcaucasus. For the next five years. What will happen next - we will see in five years. But the fact that the struggle for Karabakh, which began in 1918, will continue is reality. Neither Armenians nor Azerbaijanis will just stop. Some will strive to return what was lost, the second - to take away all that is left.

But I would like to remind you that now Russia is in the game. Our pilots Major Ischuk and Senior Lieutenant Fedin paid for the peace and quiet in the region with their lives. And this should be remembered by all parties.

It is not the best scenario - to make Russia an observer and "breeder" in the age-old quarrel around Karabakh. But if this happens, you will have to try to restore order in the region.

This will not appeal to many on both sides of yesterday's front lines. But this was not our initiative, it was not our goal. It's just that Russia will once again have to save other people's lives at its own expense.

But we are historically no stranger. But I would very much like the number of victims on our part, albeit in the name of life, to be as few as possible.
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  1. Livonetc
    Livonetc 12 November 2020 10: 06
    +1
    The people won.
    Reason has won.
    Crazy unnatural Death was still defeated.
    The nonhumans have lost.
    1. Nasrat
      Nasrat 12 November 2020 10: 16
      +1
      From the very beginning of the hot phase, I spoke and I am saying now - everything that Azerbaijan planned and did - everything was at least - with the consent of Moscow ...
      1. Hunter 2
        Hunter 2 12 November 2020 10: 24
        21
        We were betrayed ... performed by the Armenians, there are simply no censorship words!
        You Armenians have been rescued for centuries! And now they have saved from the complete .opa!
        You are an ungrateful nation, receive and sign ... again received More than you really deserve. You are not on a coca buoy (a float attached to the bottom) - no one needs you, not even your own fellow tribesmen living in other countries. Take the example of the Jews - they give everything to protect Israel, in whatever country they live.
        1. Nikolaevich I
          Nikolaevich I 12 November 2020 11: 25
          12
          Quote: Hunter 2
          We were betrayed ... performed by the Armenians, there are simply no censorship words!

          You're right ! This is what Pashinyan himself said ...

          The Armenian population evaded mobilization! There was no "agramadic" influx of Armenian volunteers from outside! In general, the song: "Mom, I love the trader! Mom, I'll go for the trader! The trader will trade, and I'll count the money ... Mom, I'll go for the trader!" remade in the Armenian way ...: "The Russian will fight, and I'll count the money .. Then I'll go for the Russian ..."
          1. Hunter 2
            Hunter 2 12 November 2020 11: 37
            12
            Nikolaevich 1, ambitions are good ... but only when they are confirmed by Deeds. And when you hear just come and Fight for us, it smacks of impotent anger and cowardice. Why should I fight for the Armenians? To see the next placard Russians - are you worse than the Nazis, invaders away from our land?
        2. karima
          karima 13 November 2020 10: 00
          +2
          Quote: Hunter 2
          Take the example of the Jews - they give everything to protect Israel, in whatever country they live.
          Ndaaa, but this is like a sickle for the Armenians in conceit.
      2. Doctor
        Doctor 12 November 2020 10: 46
        +3
        From the very beginning of the hot phase, I spoke and I am saying now - everything that Azerbaijan planned and did - everything was at least - with the consent of Moscow ...

        Sure. The task is to remove Pashinyan. And to prevent states from gaining a foothold in the region.

        And also a bonus in the form of strengthening relations with the Turks.
        1. dorz
          dorz 12 November 2020 11: 26
          +9
          Turkey and Azerbaijan won the victory. Erdogan's plan to establish Turkey as a regional power controlling the region from the Mediterranean to the Caspian is being implemented quickly and efficiently; now it is openly entrenched in the North Caucasus with a subsequent rush to Ukraine (negotiations are already underway on Ankara's military bases there) and Kazakhstan.
          1. Nyrobsky
            Nyrobsky 12 November 2020 12: 56
            +3
            Quote: dorz
            Turkey and Azerbaijan won the victory.

            At least at this stage, they did not lose and partially solved the Karabakh issue in their favor
            Quote: dorz
            Erdogan's plan to establish Turkey as a regional power, controlling the region from the Mediterranean to the Caspian is implemented quickly and efficiently

            Let's just say, not controlling, but present on the political agenda. The issue of "control of the region by Ankara" will be unambiguously disputed by Russia and Iran. In the course of the current conflict, when Tehran began to drag its grouping to the border between Azerbaijan and Armenia, and Russia lost its helicopter and designated its presence as a peacekeeping contingent, the rhetoric of Baku and Ankara from the Turkish military who were definitely present as peacekeepers was replaced by an observation mission ...
            Quote: dorz
            now it is openly entrenched in the North Caucasus, followed by a rush to Ukraine (negotiations are already underway on military bases in Ankara) and Kazakhstan
            Why now? She's been messing around there since the collapse of the USSR. I doubt it about the throw to Ukraine. Most likely, everything will end with declarations of intent, since Ukraine, as a partner, is in a very precarious position and is absolutely devoid of any independence in political decision-making. In this regard, Kazakhstan is much more interesting for Ankara due to the fact that, like Azerbaijan, it has access to the Caspian Sea and its own hydrocarbon deposits.
      3. Dreamboat
        Dreamboat 12 November 2020 21: 30
        +3
        Another homebrew expert "Skomorokhov" in the arena. You should have read at least what war in the mountains is. For each "square kilometer" Azerbaijan would have to pay with the lives of soldiers. And the army is not endless. After 1.5 months of fighting, the soldiers need rotation (is there anyone?), Winter is approaching, and there are no equipped positions, no safe communications. Azerbaijan risked engaging in war and was very interested in securing success. Aliyev has already spoken about this more than once .... "A small victorious war" is always more profitable than the years of a war of attrition!
        1. gsev
          gsev 13 November 2020 21: 02
          -1
          Quote: Dreamboat
          Would have read at least what war in the mountains is

          I think in modern warfare in the mountains, a drone with a thermal imager is hanging over the peaks. And when a heat source appears, it initiates a shot of a 155mm howitzer or a bomb from a drone. A month later, a helicopter assault is landed on the frozen bodies of the defenders of the height, which corrects the fire on the lowlands by the occupied enemy. I suppose that by spring the army of Karabakh, together with the population, would die of hunger and cold or surrender to the enemy. The Wehrmacht also noted that the partisan movement in the occupied territory of the USSR survived due to the fact that an order of magnitude or even 2 orders of magnitude more Soviet planes were involved to help the partisans than the German ones acted against them.
      4. Edvagan
        Edvagan 12 November 2020 22: 25
        +1
        not with consent, but with tacit non-interference. Which, apparently, was guaranteed in advance. I don't see anything wrong with that. Soros Pashinyan will soon be hanged, and the Armenians will begin to embrace Russia more. And they will not, not our problems. Independence is not only freedom in making decisions, but also responsibility for the decisions made. Let them be responsible for everything they did and for everything they said.
    2. Civil
      Civil 12 November 2020 10: 20
      +6
      1. Aliyev won first of all, since Azerbaijan is first of all his personal khanate, all the advantages from the defeat will be received by the autocratic eastern despot - he strengthened his power. The common people will receive only deep moral satisfaction and will continue to harass Aliyev and his nukers.
      2. Turkey won, which simply burst into the South Caucasus and successfully established itself there.
      3. Armenia lost Karabakh. That says it all.
      4. Russia admitted the loss of an ally, at the last moment securing at least some result ... a la Slatina airport with the only difference that the period of stay is clearly indicated - 5 years.
      1. La Peruse
        La Peruse 12 November 2020 10: 25
        -2
        Aliyev, with all his pragmatism, also lost. Firmly fell into the orbit of Turkish interests. By the way, the regional monster in the person of Edrogan was raised by the Russian Federation in the face of GDP and others like him
        1. Doctor
          Doctor 12 November 2020 10: 43
          +5
          Firmly fell into the orbit of Turkish interests.

          And he strove for this. One people.
        2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 12 November 2020 11: 16
          +3
          Quote: La Peruse
          By the way, the regional monster in the person of Edrogan was raised by the Russian Federation in the face of GDP and others like him

          Is Erdogan a creature of the Kremlin? You have to think of this before.
          1. La Peruse
            La Peruse 12 November 2020 11: 22
            -4
            There is not much else here. After Kemal, the military ruled in Turkey, the Swiec state. Edrogan interrupted this at the suggestion of the Kremlin. Well, then Ostap was carried away (this is about Edrogan) by the Russian Federation and supported him during the putsch, then the Turkish stream, s400 !!! And all for the sake of an adventure in Syria. So yes ... In fact, Edrogan with his imperial manners was spawned by the Kremlin itself without expecting this ... Another miscalculation
            1. Dart2027
              Dart2027 12 November 2020 19: 14
              0
              Quote: La Peruse
              After Kemal, the military ruled in Turkey, the Swiec state.

              And that made him our ally?
              1. gsev
                gsev 13 November 2020 21: 10
                0
                Quote: Dart2027
                And that made him our ally?

                Turkey at least neutralized France in Libya, Lebanon, and the Caucasus. Now France is thinking of pursuing a Russophobic policy for it in Belarus and Ukraine, or seeking cooperation with Russia to maintain its influence in Syria and the Middle East. The victory of Turkey and Azerbaijan saved Russia from the free production of weapons to its enemies, which were forced to supply through Armenia. And Bulgaria will think about whether to sell ammunition to Ukraine or save it for a future war with Turkish separatists in its southeast and in Macedonia with Albanian separatists armed with unknown Turkish drones.
                1. Dart2027
                  Dart2027 14 November 2020 06: 50
                  0
                  Quote: gsev
                  Turkey at least

                  That's all true, but that's not the point.
                  I write that until recently, secular Turkey, which was actually ruled by the military, was one hundred percent enemy.
      2. The leader of the Redskins
        The leader of the Redskins 12 November 2020 10: 54
        0
        As for me, the author slightly draws personal reflections to reality.
        So you can say that Hitler "lost" all of Europe in 1939-1940.
        1. Fan-fan
          Fan-fan 12 November 2020 18: 17
          +3
          I also think that the author is "sucking out" some mythical victory of Russia. What is the victory? The fact that we have not completely lost Karabakh? So part of it has already been lost and the rest will be lost, since the contract is for 5 years, and then either party can withdraw from the contract. And the Russians nevertheless got in there, I fear that the death of our two pilots will not end all this.
          1. gsev
            gsev 13 November 2020 21: 14
            0
            Quote: Fan-Fan
            some mythical victory of Russia.

            Let's imagine Armenia would win, and Azerbaijan would be crushed head and shoulders. The next day, the Russian base in Armenia would have to be urgently evacuated. I think even then Armenia would have demanded to lay a gas pipeline to Turkey through its territory, simply on its own terms.
            1. Fan-fan
              Fan-fan 13 November 2020 21: 16
              0
              It seems that I see no reason to think as you suggest.
      3. Lannan Shi
        Lannan Shi 12 November 2020 11: 26
        +2
        Quote: Civil
        1. Aliyev won first of all, since Azerbaijan is primarily his personal khanate,

        Nope. Aliyev lost. Outright. Recently he was a khan, albeit a petty one, but now he is a Pasha. Yes, strong, yes, semi-independent, but Pasha. By the way. This is generally typical of the Caucasus and Transcaucasia. The last 500 years. When snatching a couple of valleys from a neighbor, with the help of the "big brother", they lose their independence. yes
        Quote: Civil
        2. Turkey won, which simply burst into the South Caucasus and successfully established itself there.

        At first glance, yes. But the victory has every chance of becoming Pyrrhic. Well, first of all, Russia. There is a good chance that Turkey’s entry into the South Caucasus will finally lead to the end of the policy of chewing snot and Russian placating Turkey. Politicians are complete copies of how the West fed Hitler. Not a fact, but it can finally lead to the realization that it is useless to lure a mad dog with a bone, that it is only to shoot it. And secondly, Iran. Events in Syria became the first conflict of interest that has already killed Turkey's tender resource love with Iran. Azerbaijan can finally turn them into enemies. In general, this is a victory, or an outright defeat. it will be clear in half a year or a year. yes
        1. nobody75
          nobody75 12 November 2020 19: 58
          +1
          Let me disagree with you ...
          Sorry for the pun, but Pasha would have been Pashayev at the head of Azerbaijan. And Aliyev and the Turks are not so simple now - he threw them away. Having a Russian base in Azerbaijan, he can destroy Turkish business. Armenia also won - "30 years in Hakob" is over.
          Sincerely
        2. Marine engineer
          Marine engineer 13 November 2020 16: 01
          +1
          "..The chance that the entry of Turkey into the South Caucasus will finally lead to the end of the policy of chewing snot, and Russia placating Turkey."

          I don't see such a chance. Erdogan has long understood what kind of miracle "rower from the galley" is, so he will not stand on ceremony any longer.
          And the "expert" on galoshes will get used to it.
    3. Snail N9
      Snail N9 12 November 2020 10: 45
      +7
      Well, the article is clearly from the topic: "Russia again, won everyone" - this is what is in sight, but covertly leads the reader to the continuation (what is meant) - "thanks to the" multi-pass and HSP "... However, there is another opinion: "having entered Karabakh, Russia entered another ...... (it is clear -" what " repeat (something that smells bad). In Karabakh, the situation is stalemate and has only one solution, especially since this war has shown that this solution is quite achievable and Azerbaijan understood it. Getting in between opposing forces in such conditions ... recourse Russia has acquired another headache for itself, and a source of expenses that will fall on Russia .. Does anyone really think that the Armenians will help the Russians there? They do not want to help themselves. Russia will have to support peacekeepers at its own expense, build and provide them with the necessary infrastructure and so on. And it costs money and not small ones. In addition, the Armenians will start begging for loans to buy something out of weapons or something else, and the loans are "irrecoverable" in advance, because the Armenians simply don’t give them away (yes, they simply don’t want to give them under various pretexts). In addition, by introducing its peacekeepers, Russia receives not only the status of a third party influencing the situation in this region (which, as I understand it, the author of the article is so happy, considering this the most important "achievement" of Russia in this situation), but also makes its own peacekeepers and herself a hostage to a conflict situation that has no other solution than one obvious one. That is, Russia, instead of an outside observer, is now becoming an obvious annoying factor, a hindrance for one side, and for the other, just a convenient screen behind which you can conveniently and, most importantly, for your own benefit, hide and on which you can constantly blame anything you want. ... And Russia received ... yes, as usual, another firebrand, and in the distant future, a donut hole, and, for this, it will pay itself ...
      1. Doctor
        Doctor 12 November 2020 10: 57
        +7
        Well, the article is clearly from the topic: "Russia again, won everyone" - this is what is in sight, but covertly leads the reader to the continuation (what is meant) - "thanks to the" multi-pass and HSP "... However, there is another opinion: "having entered Karabakh, Russia entered the next ...... (it is clear that" feel "that smells bad). In Karabakh, the situation is stalemate and has only one solution, especially since this war has shown that this solution is quite achievable and Azerbaijan understood it. Getting in between the opposing forces in such conditions .... recourse Russia has got another headache for itself, and a source of expenses that will fall on Russia .. Does anyone really think that the Armenians will help the Russians there? They do not want to help themselves. Russia will have to support peacekeepers at its own expense, build and provide them with the necessary infrastructure and so on. And it costs money and not small ones. In addition, the Armenians will start begging for loans to buy something out of weapons or something else, and the loans are "irrecoverable" in advance, because the Armenians simply don’t give them away (yes, they simply don’t want to give them under various pretexts). In addition, by introducing its peacekeepers, Russia receives not only the status of a third party influencing the situation in this region (which, as I understand it, the author of the article is so happy, considering this the most important "achievement" of Russia in this situation), but also makes its own peacekeepers and herself a hostage to a conflict situation that has no other solution than one obvious one. That is, Russia, instead of an outside observer, is now becoming an obvious annoying factor, a hindrance for one side, and for the other, just a convenient screen behind which you can conveniently and, most importantly, for your own benefit, hide and on which you can constantly blame anything you want. ... And Russia received ... yes, as usual, another firebrand, and in the distant future, a donut hole, and, for this, it will pay itself ...

        Everything is correct. Half decisions are the worst decisions. By trying to stay good for both, we will become bad for both.
    4. Hypertension
      Hypertension 12 November 2020 14: 49
      +2
      Quote: Livonetc
      The people won.

      Good won. After all, whoever won is the one who is kind.
      Quote: Livonetc
      Reason has won.

      Reason always wins. Ever since one intelligent monkey cut open the skull of an unreasonable one with a sharp stone.
      Quote: Livonetc
      Crazy unnatural Death was still defeated.

      Has suffered a reprieve. We'll all be there. Anyway. Sooner or later.
      Quote: Livonetc
      The nonhumans have lost.

      Orcs? Goblins? Trolls? Elves? People fought from all sides and inspired this war. Whether "bad" or "good", but people. There were no inhumans.

      Along this line, I thought Staver was the author of the article:
      A Turk and an Azeri are more than brothers (in the usual sense). It's like an Indian and a Pakistani. One people, simply divided by borders.

      Well, really, Pakistani and Indian are "more than brothers"? It's just that their borders are holding them back from merging in a fraternal embrace ...
    5. sunzhenets
      sunzhenets 13 November 2020 09: 08
      +2
      I really like the work of Roman, and his opinion often coincides with mine. But not now. I don't share the general enthusiasm for another victory. Justify:
      Armenia is dissatisfied with the results of the war, they do not want to admit their defeat, talks about revising the peace agreement have already begun.
      Azerbaijan is dissatisfied with the results of the war, they were not allowed to take Stepanakert. Conversations on the topic "politics did not allow the military to win" have already begun.
      Turkey. We organized the conflict competently. We have strengthened our positions in the region. Raised the authority of their weapons. Here they are - the winners.
      Russia. Was originally in a losing situation. Armenia is an ally, but military operations are taking place on the territory of Azerbaijan. You cannot support the aggressor, and you cannot drain an ally. Tsutswang ...
      And there are bad nuances - the events again turned out to be unexpected for us (see Ukraine-2014).
      Our helicopter has been shot down, the Turks are again present, and again no one will answer for this (monetary compensation is not punishment for the guilty).
      Our peacekeepers will have to solve tasks in an atmosphere when both sides of the conflict are dissatisfied with Russia. And it's good if they don't care about the soup. But in my opinion, this will not end there. The helicopter was fired upon as it accompanied a convoy of peacekeepers.
      The accepted solution to the issue is not final. In the best traditions of the Kremlin, the situation is not resolved, but "frozen" (as in the Donbass and Chechnya). And there is no doubt that it will explode in the future.
      There was a lot of talk about the fact that Russia should not get involved in the conflict .. In the end, they got involved.
      As a result, I see no signs of victory.
  2. La Peruse
    La Peruse 12 November 2020 10: 15
    +6
    Dear Roman !!! Oddly enough, but Turkey won! Or rather Edrogan personally! He needed political successes against the background of failures in Syria and Libya, he got them in Azerbaijan. Russia is the loser in the long run. Even now, the Armenians accuse us of interfering, and we quietly shut up when Azerbaijan ran with flags in the cities of the Russian Federation and shouted Alah Akbar, blocking traffic and interfering with the citizens of the Russian Federation. All our power structures were quietly silent in a rag. In the near future, the Russian Federation will be accused of not letting the brutal Caucasian guys understand each other like a man. (In principle, both are already accused) Was it even worth going there? Well, let them cut each other with rapture. In the near future I predict losses among Our peacekeepers.
    1. Nasrat
      Nasrat 12 November 2020 10: 32
      +6
      In Russia they write:

      Quote: La Peruse
      Oddly enough, but Turkey won!


      In the USA they write:

      Politico (USA): Russia's victory in Nagorno-Karabakh is a defeat for the EU
      https://inosmi.ru/military/20201112/248518886.html

      In Turkey they write:

      Ekrem: Karabakh has become 40% Azerbaijani and 60% Russian.
      Turkey: The weak enemy is gone, the strong enemy has come.
      https://inosmi.ru/politic/20201112/248515226.html
      1. La Peruse
        La Peruse 12 November 2020 10: 52
        +2
        Oddly enough, but you are right! For Turkey, Russia is a strong enemy. Unfortunately, the Russian Federation is now bound hand and foot, entrusting itself with a peacekeeping mission. In the case of a naughty, compulsion to peace as with Georgia will not work ... The Russian Federation won a tactical victory but lost strategically. In the long term, the Russian Federation will be accused of all sins
        1. Doctor
          Doctor 12 November 2020 11: 12
          +2
          The Russian Federation won a tactical victory but lost strategically. In the long term, the Russian Federation will be blamed for all sins

          And there is no tactical victory. Is that the departure of Pashinyan. But now extreme nationalists may come in his place, it is not known which is better.

          And strategically, yes, it turns out that we “prevented the Armenians from gaining victory”.
          And Azerbaijanis and Turks too.
          1. Polite Moose
            Polite Moose 12 November 2020 11: 54
            +2
            Quote: Arzt
            And there is no tactical victory. Is that the departure of Pashinyan.

            Do you think this is not enough? It seems to me that this whole war, victorious for Azerbaijan, was started (or rather allowed) with one goal - to teach a lesson to those who want to be friends with the n-sami. It turned out like in a book: "Well, son, did your Poles help you?" Now Pashinyan is a kirdyk. Already in our media all dogs are hung on him. The successor must do so. conclusions. Q.E.D. hi
          2. Revival
            Revival 12 November 2020 22: 49
            +1
            By the way, I have one question.
            We, as it were, saved the Armenians a part of Karabakh, which Azerbaijan would otherwise have completely taken away by the war.
            But whatever the possibility of Azerbaijan to cross the border of Armenia was not meant, we are on guard here, right?
            And like we pushed through the terms of the agreement, so strong and all controlling.
            So good.

            But what has to do with the corridor to Nakhichevan, how does it help, save the Armenians, where is the benefit for them here? Why all of a sudden !?
            Or the conditions were not dictated by us, and otherwise no one was going to agree and there was an argument "or we will unite with Nakhichevan ourselves, but your opinion and odkb do not give a damn?"
            1. Doctor
              Doctor 13 November 2020 07: 55
              0
              And like we pushed through the terms of the agreement, so strong and all controlling.
              So good.

              But what has to do with the corridor to Nakhichevan, how does it help, save the Armenians, where is the benefit for them here? Why all of a sudden !?
              Or the conditions were not dictated by us, and otherwise no one was going to agree and there was an argument "or we will unite with Nakhichevan ourselves, but your opinion and odkb do not give a damn?"

              Everything is correct. We are NOT in control of everything.
              This is an agreement in which we are one of the parties and also have to reckon with the opinions of others.
        2. Nagaibak
          Nagaibak 12 November 2020 19: 42
          +2
          La Pérouse "In the case of a nix, compulsion to peace as with Georgia will not work .."
          It is not clear where this conclusion comes from.))))
    2. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 12 November 2020 10: 44
      +2
      Quote: La Peruse
      Even now, the Armenians accuse us of interfering and we quietly shut up when Azerbaijan ran with flags in the cities of the Russian Federation and shouted Alah Akbar

      But this is already reminiscent of what is happening now in the United States.
    3. depressant
      depressant 12 November 2020 11: 02
      +1
      Here! Colleague Laperuse, thank you! Finally, something was heard that I did not dare to say myself - the possible losses among our peacekeepers. And so that the level of losses becomes sufficient to raise the question "What for do we Russians need this?", Three parties will try, namely: Armenians, Turks and Azerbaijanis.
      The introduction of our peacekeepers is necessary, the consequences of the introduction will be tragic.
      1. La Peruse
        La Peruse 12 November 2020 11: 10
        -1
        Unfortunately you are right. RF received a suitcase without a handle. And it's not convenient to carry and will throw a pity :(
        1. depressant
          depressant 12 November 2020 11: 50
          0
          In any case - with or without a pen - our political analysts unanimously assess the operation of bringing Russian peacekeepers into Karabakh as brilliant. Russia was at the start from the very beginning of the conflict. Waited for the right moment. The wait was highly classified. No one paid attention to individual leaks. And suddenly - like that sharply, so immediately.
          And the moment is extremely favorable.
          Indeed, the United States is preoccupied with its grotesque elections, cannot sort it out in any way, full immersion in the process. Azerbaijanis and Armenians also got stuck, both sides looked so unpleasant in the eyes of certain groups of their own population and did not achieve their goals to such an extent that the leaders were ready to go to any conditions in order to "save face."
          But it was not only the politicians' concern about preserving their own faces unbroken that prompted the signing of an agreement on the deployment of peacekeepers.
          If they delayed even a little, the United States would wake up, glanced around and, seeing, intervened predatory. Armenia would have received a complete military defeat, Azerbaijan would have come under the direct control of Turkey, followed by the overthrow of Aliyev by the alliance of the breakaway part of the generals with the pro-Turkish Pashayev clan.
          I remember Aliyev Sr. Surprisingly sweet voice was and an infrequently oriental flattering in relation to the "older comrades." The youngest seemed like a playboy, but was not stupid. This is if you take the invasion of Karabakh out of the brackets. On the other hand, passion, the sister of stupidity, can be difficult to overcome - it cloudes the mind.
          And I’m still thinking about our soldiers. Bulletproof vests are needed, the latest developments.
          1. La Peruse
            La Peruse 12 November 2020 11: 58
            -1
            Right now I’ll write not a pleasant face! The Wehrmacht at 41 was also from a low start and at the right moment began to act ... The result is known. Winning a battle is not Winning a war. Lavrov from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs frankly gave up ... Tired man does not pull ... Zakharov more and more Psaki reminds ... Well, the GDP apparently suffers from age due to age. For so many conflicting decisions can only be made by a person who has fallen into senile moralism
            1. Hypertension
              Hypertension 12 November 2020 15: 31
              +7
              Quote: La Peruse
              Right now I’ll write not a pleasant face!

              "not a pleasant face" and illiterate. You are either a poor student, or Russian is not your native language. All your comments are painful to read. Error on error. Armenian provocateur?
      2. The comment was deleted.
        1. depressant
          depressant 12 November 2020 15: 32
          0
          Colleague Hyperion, do not find fault! ))) Some people, in a hurry to comment on something, write hastily and send them away. For example, if a person is at work, busy, reads, squinting at the forum, there is a desire to say ...
          Believe me, this is not from disrespect for the forum, but because of the impossibility of rereading what I wrote.
          For example, I re-read, correct, sometimes, correct what has already been sent. But I have time for this. A colleague Laperuse may not have enough of it. I ask you - be more tolerant! We are all in the same boat))))
          1. Hypertension
            Hypertension 12 November 2020 21: 53
            +3
            I cannot calmly look at this mockery of the language. I understand everything: typos, no time, etc. But not in every comment?
            By the way, Lyudmila Yakovlevna, I recently came across a note about your "boy". love
            https://zen.yandex.ru/media/id/5eba5216ce86a8785f6e15e9/vechnyi-snaiper-5f6482b9bdfa745d4088fde4
            1. depressant
              depressant 12 November 2020 22: 07
              +2
              Stop, I don't understand))))
              What boy? )))
              1. Hypertension
                Hypertension 12 November 2020 22: 09
                +2
                Quote: depressant
                What boy? )))

                Sniper. I gave the link.
                1. depressant
                  depressant 12 November 2020 22: 38
                  +3
                  Thank you! love )))
                  Found it. I will read. But, you know, I'm a finicky reader. How many I read, for example, reviews both from well-known critics and from readers, say, on the same "Blade Runner", no one caught and did not decipher correctly the visual sequence of the film, and even more so its subtext. Wrigley Scott is a very deep person.
                  As for Dmitry Sillov, I didn't like him as a person. His TV interview turned me off. And further. I published too many books, almost a dozen a year - it was like that. This suggests the use of the labor of literary slaves, which is used by the same Daria Dontsova, whom I do not much respect.
                  But be that as it may, the image of the Sniper sunk into my soul, touched some strings, and they rang. Something in common in the perception of the world between me and the Sniper))) But, separating the Sniper from his creator, I cannot but pay tribute to the one who created this amazing image. Earlier, I said that there is a certain mysticism in the books about the Sniper, but not as a decoration of the narrative, but as a part of the hero's worldview, which is nowhere else and no one else - one that I periodically feel myself. And if Sillov did create his own rough books, then he is a great writer)))
                  1. depressant
                    depressant 12 November 2020 23: 07
                    +2
                    I read the article. Well, as always, down to earth. People don't look at the world, slightly squinting their eyes to see distant, endless horizons and a sky full of stars.
                    Thank you, Hyperion)))
                  2. Hypertension
                    Hypertension 13 November 2020 00: 10
                    +2
                    Quote: depressant
                    no one caught or deciphered correctly the visual sequence of the film, and even more so its subtext. Wrigley Scott is a very deep person.

                    "I've seen things that you people never dreamed of ..."
                    Beauty and meaning in the eye of the beholder ..? Scott ruined the entire Alien franchise, for which he has a huge minus. But he used to be a good fellow.
                    Quote: depressant
                    And if Sillov did create his own rough books, then he is a great writer)))

                    Well ... ahem ... okay, shut up, don't pay attention. repeat
                    Quote: depressant
                    People don't look at the world, slightly squinting their eyes to see distant, endless horizons and a sky full of stars.

                    We will still see the sky in diamonds ... love
      3. Revival
        Revival 12 November 2020 23: 38
        +2
        And what exactly is it for?
        1. depressant
          depressant 13 November 2020 00: 17
          +1
          So that the sky does not seem like a sheepskin)))
          1. Revival
            Revival 13 November 2020 02: 36
            +3
            Informative, thanks ...
            1. depressant
              depressant 13 November 2020 16: 22
              +1
              I read it, grinned. Colleagues, you do not understand what abysses are hidden in my soul ...
              El pueblo!
              Unido !!
              Sir vensido's hamas !!! ...
              The sniper is the Russian Che, caught in the grip of loneliness and despair.
  3. 7,62h54
    7,62h54 12 November 2020 10: 16
    +8
    Russia won, well, well ...
  4. Peter rybak
    Peter rybak 12 November 2020 10: 31
    +3
    Guys, I've been talking about everything that is written in the article for three days now, but I'm being minus godlessly. Armenians need to pray for Russia daily, hourly.
    The helicopter is a setup. Aliyev went beyond the agreements with Moscow and was ready to liberate Stepanakert. And there the entire Armenian army would have fallen, or rather, its remnants. And here you have a helicopter! And call Aliyev - take it on yourself. Otherwise, the peacekeeping forces will be transformed into others.
    And Aliyev urgently takes upon himself all the sin.
    Russia has a second base in the South Caucasus.
    1. depressant
      depressant 12 November 2020 16: 21
      +1
      Yes, that's right, colleague Peter Rybak. Russia is legitimately present in Karabakh and, as all conflicting parties consider, for a long time, in the form of another military base in the region. And formally, neither Baku nor Yerevan can present any claims to Moscow.
      However, establishing peace in Karabakh will require long, tedious and, I suspect, difficult negotiations. After all, a compromise will be required based on the safe return of refugees. But not only and not so much for this reason.
      After all, if a compromise is reached, Russia's influence in Karabakh may exceed that of Armenia, which the Armenians themselves are unlikely to like. And the Armenians are unlikely to think about where the patronage of the Americans led them. Something tells me that in their eyes Russia will gradually turn into the source of all their troubles and misfortunes - right up to the burning of dinner in the kitchen.
      And Azerbaijan? I suppose Aliyev will be useful for the stability of his throne in all subsequent years, but he is unlikely to accuse Russia of shaking the throne under him.
      If a compromise is reached, provided that the decisions made by all parties are respected, then Russia's political influence in the region will, of course, increase. And if they do not agree? The Armenians do not look negotiable. This happens when a country in a long historical process gradually shrinks to a minimum. At the same time, ambition increases to the maximum. There are ambitions, but the opportunity for their realization lies only in the persistent idea that someone, the citizens of Armenia, must very much, and that someone is obliged to satisfy their need for the greatness of their own country.
    2. Revival
      Revival 12 November 2020 23: 39
      +2
      Yes, he takes all the sin upon himself, along with the corridor to Nakhichevan, which had never been planned before.
  5. Ulrih
    Ulrih 12 November 2020 10: 34
    11
    With all the ambiguity of Strelkov, I more than agree with him that the agreement was already concluded earlier, so there is nothing to speculate about the downed helicopter, that he allegedly saved Armenia and Artsakh.
    And I also agree with him on the point that Russia abandoned its ally (Armenia) in this war. Of course, this does not in any way justify the fact that the Defense Army does not know what kind of war it was preparing for and whether it was prepared at all. It also does not justify the fact that the official Armenia, in the worst traditions of the 3rd Reich, until recently gave out information that the enemy had been thrown back, crushed, etc. when the enemy was already a couple of kilometers from Stepanokert.
    1. Polite Moose
      Polite Moose 12 November 2020 12: 39
      +2
      Quote: Ulrih
      the agreement was signed earlier

      I also tend to this opinion.
      Quote: Ulrih
      so speculation about a downed helicopter, that he allegedly saved Armenia and Artsakh, is nothing at all.

      I support. Rather, they just successfully played out the newly discovered circumstances (albeit very tragic). A clear reason to intervene. Although, in my opinion - a little early. Not everyone has fought yet.
      Quote: Ulrih
      Russia abandoned its ally (Armenia) in this war

      If I did, then today we would have observed local battles on the primordially Armenian border with the exodus of civilians and an abundance of personnel destroying Armenian armored vehicles and so on. So, it would be more accurate to say, I did not throw it, but turned the hut back to the forest with its back, and towards us in front. Pashinyan's successor will now (if he is not entirely alternatively gifted) quickly gag, shouting "Forward!", "Victory or death!", "Russia has betrayed us!" etc. and will begin to deal with the economy (and it is not up to par in Armenia, as I myself had a chance to see) and the army, which turned out to be unprepared for the changed nature of the DB. He will have only 5 years to find funds and re-equip. After that, left without a peacekeeping barrier, it would be desirable for him to talk with Azerbaijan on equal terms. Parity will guarantee peace in the region after the withdrawal of our peacekeepers. So it seems to me personally. hi
      1. Ulrih
        Ulrih 12 November 2020 14: 39
        +1
        I will remain with the opinion that Russia still threw the Armenians, because it is not known whether Pashinyan will be overthrown (yesterday, in any case, it was not possible in Parliament), and secondly, it is not a fact that another prime minister will be more pro-Russian. Moreover, one of the main motives of the Armenians at the moment is that Russia has betrayed them and it is asked what for is an alliance treaty needed if it did not give anything. Karabakh is lost and even now the corridor through Armenia. If they had lost just like that, the war would have stopped at the border of Armenia and this corridor at least would not have existed. It seems to me that at the beginning of the conflict, Russia’s statement that it fully supports and will support Armenia would have been enough, and the conflict would have ended without really starting ...
        As for the economy, this is how Pashinyan came to power with this slogan (one of the motives).
        Russia got what, with the unresolved terrorist dispute, not Armenia, not Azerbaijan, into NATO, etc. most likely they won't. Well, the opportunity to learn from the mistakes of others in the war with new types of weapons.
        1. Polite Moose
          Polite Moose 12 November 2020 16: 44
          +2
          Quote: Ulrih
          I will remain with the opinion that Russia still abandoned the Armenians,

          Not joining the DB on the side of a peeping alliance looking across the ocean for a territory with an unsettled status that was previously part of another state?
          Quote: Ulrih
          it is not known whether Pashinyan will be overthrown

          How could he not leave? Look how all the dogs have already been hung on him. He is already Judas and Hitler and Elton John rolled into one. Perfect absolution. If anything, then the Armenian diaspora in Russia will add fuel to the fire. They have something to lose here.
          Quote: Ulrih
          at the beginning of the conflict, it would be enough for Russia to declare that it fully supports and will support Armenia

          Supports what? Moving West, NATO? request
          Quote: Ulrih
          Russia got something

          In addition to everything you have listed, I received: The conflict in its hot phase is extinguished, no blood is shedding; Azerbaijan is not hostile; Armenia is not hostile (and ardent, irreconcilable guys who have not finished fighting will be quickly explained how the word "HAPPINESS" is formed from cubes with the letters Ж, П, О and А); Turkey is not hostile; We slept through the "holiday".
          If you have any ideas as to which result would be better given the scenario with which Russia sat down at the gambling table, I will gladly familiarize myself with it. And also with the ways and means of achieving it.
          PS Return Armenia to the pro-Russian information field, and in 5 years (the term of peacekeeping) it will be a country with the same almost Soviet worldview.
  6. OgnennyiKotik
    OgnennyiKotik 12 November 2020 10: 35
    +7
    The complete liberation of Karabakh is not beneficial to us. This would mean the loss of Armenia and Azerbaijan. Their entry into NATO, in one form or another. Now we have blocked it, and Armenia does not rock anywhere at all, if the Turks simply tear it apart, they understand this. But this is the best of the worst.
    But in the long run it is a big loss. In the Caucasus and Asia (and throughout the world) the right of the strong is valid. Turkey showed its strength, received a corridor to Central Asia, its flag on the territory of Karabakh. Anger against Russia will grow in Armenia, for her we have sided with Azerbaijan and are carrying out the tasks necessary for her. Integration of Turkey with Azerbaijan will grow, right up to the union state.
    Russia in a short time stopped the integration of Armenia with the West, created points of instability, but you have to pay for this. Armenia is poor, we take it in tow. Plus 2000 soldiers look more like hostages than real force. The Turks can destroy this entire group in a matter of hours.
    Turkey has strengthened its positions too much, their representatives will now be received especially well in Central Asia.
    Azerbaijan does not need Karabakh now either, its capture is more minus than pluses. A poverty-stricken territory inhabited by enemies, international sanctions, accusations of ethnic cleansing and other delights. It is necessary to wait, to equip the liberated territories, to build roads and other infrastructure in 5 years, to start again the question of full return. Moreover, Shushi gives complete superiority in the region.
    No victory in Karabakh would give a corridor to Nakhichevan, and then to Turkey. This is what Erdogan needs for further expansion into Central Asia and both countries for economic development.
    1. Petro_tut
      Petro_tut 12 November 2020 11: 24
      +1
      I agree one hundred percent hi
    2. Nagaibak
      Nagaibak 12 November 2020 19: 56
      +1
      OgnennyiKotik "Plus 2000 soldiers are more like hostages than real force. The Turks can destroy this entire group in a matter of hours."
      There were 200 of ours in Georgia. We held out against the Georgian army for three days.
  7. aybolyt678
    aybolyt678 12 November 2020 10: 35
    0
    I suppose 1: 1, on the one hand, territorial losses by Armenia, on the other hand, Pashinyan and his pro-Western course are neutralized
  8. SaLaR
    SaLaR 12 November 2020 10: 35
    -1
    How long has Russia won ...
  9. Anatole Klim
    Anatole Klim 12 November 2020 10: 36
    +7
    The “miraculous” (and no other word comes to mind) rescue of the NKR happened precisely due to the very strange situation with the Russian helicopter ... Our pilots Major Ishuk and Senior Lieutenant Fedin paid for the peace and quiet in the region with their lives. And this should be remembered by all parties.

    The agreements on Karabakh between Putin, Erdogan, Aliyev and Pashinyan were negotiated even before the downing of the Russian helicopter, so in order not to disrupt them, Azerbaijan immediately recognized this fact, apologized and agreed to compensation, and Russia did not take tough retaliatory actions. The author clearly overestimated the role of the downed Russian helicopter, there is no need to flirt with conspiracy theories, after all, a tragic mistake and carelessness of both are possible.
  10. sevtrash
    sevtrash 12 November 2020 10: 37
    +3
    The Armenians will flee from Karabakh, maybe those who have nowhere at all will remain. Since this is the territory of Azerbaijan now, under its jurisdiction, the peacekeepers will only keep order. And the Azerbaijanis will steer and those Armenians who remain will not be envied. Azerbaijan is in a clear plus.
    Russia made a very good move, just wonderful. However - what will happen next. Both the Armenians and Azerbaijanis will blame the peacekeepers for all the problems, it seems to me, they will make them extreme. Well, Russia really was in some gain. The downed helicopter, quite possibly, greetings from Erdogan. There is no doubt that the Turks completely controlled the airspace of Armenia, Karabakh.
    Well, the Armenians are definitely a loser. But it could be worse given the alignment of forces that happened. Of course, they will blame everyone for their defeat, primarily Russia. After all, they cannot be guilty in any way.
    Of course, Israel won too. Firms IAI, Elbit, those that ensured the victory for the Turkish-Azerbaijani forces, along with Bayraktar. It is a little strange that Israel helped Azerbaijan, and not Armenia, but, in the end, money does not smell, and now there are many who want to buy drones. And in general, the chosen people should be one.
    Turkey flew past peacekeeping, but showed that its armed forces are no match for many countries. Finally, they showed another shooting down of a helicopter, possibly as a response to the fact that they were thrown with the peacekeepers.
    Well, the armed forces of many countries have learned a lesson in modern actions, in specific conditions, of course. But the options for resolving the problem of Donbas, Transnistria, Iran by the respective countries, I think, will immediately begin to be worked out.
    1. OgnennyiKotik
      OgnennyiKotik 12 November 2020 10: 45
      -2
      Quote: sevtrash
      It's a little strange that Israel helped Azerbaijan, not Armenia

      Why? What's the point in helping Armenia?
      The strengthening of Azerbaijan is the weakening of Iran. Now the slogan "one people, two states" sounds. What prevents from turning into "one people and 3 states"? There are 25-35 million Turks in Iran, and they are asking for a liberation campaign.
  11. RMT
    RMT 12 November 2020 10: 42
    +1
    Being between a rock and a hard place is very painful. Nobody doubts that Karabakh remains an unresolved issue for Azerbaijan and Armenia. Russia has taken on a difficult and thankless job. There will be claims from both Armenians and Azerbaijanis.
  12. sergo1914
    sergo1914 12 November 2020 10: 42
    +1
    Indeed, who won the conflict in Karabakh? Nominally, it turns out that Azerbaijan. Not really. Azerbaijan lost this war - and quite unexpectedly.


    So, in such and such light, the defeat of Armenia is actually not quite a defeat either.


    Honestly. It is breathtaking. Samsonov - style. It's not what you think it is.
  13. Vadim_888
    Vadim_888 12 November 2020 10: 48
    +5
    The article is excellent, only the conclusions are not correct,
    Peacekeepers for 5 years by agreement of the parties, deyuro arzeibadzhan returns everything around Karabakh, gets a trip to Nakhchivan, there is no direct communication with stepanakert at the moment. the road through Shushi goes, on the approach is the default of Armenia and the refusal to pay for the weapons supplied on credit, respectively. Who will support the peacekeepers in Karabakh? Again Russia. Has Russia increased its influence in the Caucasus? It is unlikely that Pashinyan was knocked out? Not yet, and it may be finished before the end of the term. And in the minds of the population of Armenia Russia has betrayed them. A Turk will not be in Arzeibajan? And their f16 flew away? Not yet in the genus. In addition to another hemorrhoid, Russia received nothing here ...
    1. Vadim_888
      Vadim_888 12 November 2020 11: 04
      +3
      And by the way, my comment from October 3rd
      ... Vadim_888
      3 October 2020 21: 02
      -3
      Experts: Erdogan is going to fight on four fronts, it could end badly for him
      So I try to wanganut:
      1. Who will lose - of course Pashinyan, for Azerbaijan will cut off part of the territory of Artsakh-Karabakh.
      2. Who will win - Aliyev turning the return of part of the territory under his control into an appearance of victory.
      - Moscow, returning Armenia to the wake of pro-Russian politics after Pashinyan's resignation
      - Turkey, having strengthened its positions in Arzeibajan and began penetrating into Central Asia
      1. depressant
        depressant 12 November 2020 14: 50
        +2
        By the way, colleague Vadim_888, I remember this comment of yours - the only one of all)))
        Maybe because everything was laid out point by point. Yes, that's just the resignation of Pashinyan is still a question. He himself is a street speaker, brought by the street. And therefore he knows how to "take" the street - the one that is now trying to throw it off.
        And a funny observation. On the one hand, Pashinyan, on the other, the Pashaevs, in general, are solid pashas.
  14. Nasdaq
    Nasdaq 12 November 2020 10: 50
    +1
    It is clear that Turkey would like to replace Russia. A Turk and an Azeri are more than brothers (in the usual sense). It's like an Indian and a Pakistani. One people just divided by borders

    You're the coolest analyst, though.
    Expert.
  15. Gardamir
    Gardamir 12 November 2020 10: 50
    +5
    It is strange that the site, which should be neutral, has firmly taken pro-Azerbaijani positions from the very beginning of the conflict. And it is completely unexpected that the death of ours is to the benefit of the "evil" Armenians. Suddenly, patriotism awoke in the Kremlin.
    Turkey won.
  16. tihonmarine
    tihonmarine 12 November 2020 10: 51
    +1
    Well, here's some recent news from Armenia.
    Armenian parliament proposes to abandon Russian peacekeepers
    writes "Moskovsky Komsomolets".
    1. depressant
      depressant 12 November 2020 14: 52
      +1
      I wonder if anyone asks them?
      If the dogs fight, the owners, without asking, stretch them by the leashes.
  17. Daniil Konovalenko
    Daniil Konovalenko 12 November 2020 10: 51
    +3
    In 5 years, we will sum up who won. As long as the war ended, the death of people, a possible genocide was prevented.
    1. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 12 November 2020 15: 29
      0
      Quote: Daniil Konovalenko
      Until the war ended, the death of people, a possible genocide was averted.

      So far, yes, and has not even stopped, but rather "fell asleep" for a while.
  18. Trapp1st
    Trapp1st 12 November 2020 10: 56
    +1
    "Miraculous" (and no other word comes to mind) the salvation of the NKR happened
    No miracle or simply salvation did not happen, they bargained for 5 years for Armenia to finally resolve the Karabakh issue or to prepare for a war of annihilation with Azerbaijan (which is unlikely).
  19. Boris63
    Boris63 12 November 2020 11: 11
    +3
    As for the peacekeepers ... there was Peskov's phrase that the treaty had been drawn up for a long time. Otherwise, why the hell would our column go to that border. "Helicopter", most likely, with the submission of the undersultan, it turned out to stop or just nullify this agreement. So to say, if ours responded to this provocation by attacking even two members of the CSTO ... a Russian helicopter over the territory of Armenia, then cross everything out and Turkey begins to directly help its vassal. But the opposite happened, the entry of the treaty was accelerated ... though at the expense of the lives of our flyers ... the Kingdom of Heaven. Aliyev will most likely "find" the performers, possibly already dead, but not the point ... he is obliged to do this. Well, the GDP will then, with cold calculation, give revenge, to whom our intelligence will point out. By the victory of this or that country, but no one won. It seems to me that no one has fully reached their hopes in this conflict. Each of the "winners" on this kind of got something ... But the losers are only Armenia and Artsakh, and Artsakh did not lose everything it could. Armenia has completely lost its "face".
    1. Gofman
      Gofman 12 November 2020 11: 26
      0
      Quote: Boris63
      Armenia has completely lost its "face".

      The immediate task now is to somehow shift this loss onto others, they say, at the very last moment they snatched the victory out of their hands. All populists of Armenia will now fight over this (with the exception of only one of them - the dodged Pashinyan).
  20. Herman 4223
    Herman 4223 12 November 2020 11: 14
    +1
    Conspiracy the drawn behind the ears. The pilots accompanied the convoy, the convoy moved towards Karabakh because the decision had already been made.
    I have another version why Azerbaijan did not begin to squeeze Karabakh for the reason that a guerrilla war would follow, which would shut up for years if not decades. Azerbaijan got away from this with the help of agreements, then it got a corridor to Nakhichevan, and this would not have happened if it had gone all the way. Well, how long the company would last is also a difficult question. Not the fact that several days, most likely several weeks.
  21. Gofman
    Gofman 12 November 2020 11: 14
    +3
    Former adviser to Artsakh Foreign Minister Hrachya Arzumanyan (resigned on November 10): "... What happened is a repetition of the conspiracy between Ataturk's Turkey and Lenin's Russia a hundred years ago. Then we lost Western Armenia, these days as a result of the conspiracy between Putin and Erdogan Artsakh. ... We were stabbed in the back "a few moments" before the break. The guys on the front line said with glee that the enemy had already faltered, the grouping near Shushi had been ground down, and they were preparing to attack. "
    Well, what are you going to do? ... They are not trained people. No gratitude for saving people, no elementary survival instinct. On the drum, that there were a dozen howitzers and two "Grada" without shells - "they were preparing for the offensive", you panic ... if only with your back forward - but this has already been forgotten.
    It is clear that this is not a sweet result - I wanted everything, "a new war - new territories" ... but for this, first of all, we ourselves had to prepare for war and fight a little better, and not now blame others.
  22. Rudkovsky
    Rudkovsky 12 November 2020 11: 18
    +3
    Russia has lost the last ally in any way, instead it has fallen into an ungrateful position of a peacemaker, from which there are no profits, only expenses and jaws. Confronting our weapons against theirs is a convincing victory for Western technology. You can find excuses for this, but the fact remains.

    I don't even know what the victory is here.
  23. Artashes
    Artashes 12 November 2020 11: 33
    +2
    NOT OSCE, not CSTO, etc. "groups", namely Turkey - for the first time since 1991 - received a LEGAL "presence" in the former USSR (within the framework of the notorious joint "monitoring"). Without THIS, agreements would not have been signed in Baku. This means that the Russian Federation agreed with Ankara's role in the region, camouflaging this consent as a kind of "monitoring center": this is most likely dictated by Washington. And - regardless of the position of Yerevan (and even more so Stepanakert) regarding Turkey. It is not for nothing that Armenian politicians began to appeal to polit. intervention by Washington.
    That is, the situation of 1920-21 was repeated, when the Bolsheviks forced Armenia to peace on Turkish terms. What is to blame - again to blame - the politicians of Armenia.
    The almost decisive influence of Turkey is also evidenced by the fact that transport unblocking in the region is NOT accompanied by a clause on the termination of the transport blockade of Armenia by Turkey (since 1993).
    In and the whole essence of the "success" of the Russian Federation. Moreover, even the name "NKR" is not mentioned in any way in the agreement ...
  24. Gofman
    Gofman 12 November 2020 12: 35
    +3
    Allied relations between a world power (such as Russia) and a satellite country (Armenia) consist in the fact that the world power provides its satellite with strategic security - i.e. guarantees its very existence (which does not at all mean securing all military adventures of its satellite). The satellite helps to ensure the interests of the patron in its region.
    In this regard, Russia fully ensured the security of Armenia from the actions of Turkey and Azerbaijan (otherwise, feathers would have really flown from Armenia).
    But Armenia, with its territorial appetite not backed by real capabilities, only undermined Russia's interests in the Transcaucasus: because of its military adventurism, Turkey had a chance to penetrate into the sphere of Russia's interests.
    In reality, Armenia turned out to be a burden for Russia, and not an ally making its own contribution.
    1. Snail N9
      Snail N9 12 November 2020 12: 49
      +1
      You are absolutely correct in your observation. All these so-called "allies" are, in fact, "insect-parasites" that do not help Russia in any way, neither in the international arena, nor in politics, nor in any other way, but only demand from it on the principle of “will you give?”, Then- let's go to NATO and the USA! "
  25. Vadim237
    Vadim237 12 November 2020 18: 08
    0
    Armenia, in fact, surrendered with defeat - and all the territories will gradually go to Azerbaijan, and the Armenians will leave Karabakh during this time.
    1. Shahno
      Shahno 12 November 2020 18: 19
      0
      Quote: Vadim237
      Armenia, in fact, surrendered with defeat - and all the territories will gradually go to Azerbaijan, and the Armenians will leave Karabakh during this time.

      In fact, yes. First of all, Armenia lost in the military conflict. Strategically, tactically. In terms of the potential of forces and means and the ability to use them ... defeat.
      Russia is clear that it should have intervened.
      Should the Mexicans start a conflict with the Argentines? It is clear that the states will intervene ...
  26. Phoenix
    Phoenix 12 November 2020 18: 12
    -1
    The author would like to advise to learn to write. Three sentences to stretch out so many times and to repeat this obvious talent for demagoguery. The whole thought would fit into two or three lines ...
  27. CommanderDIVA
    CommanderDIVA 12 November 2020 20: 06
    -1
    The Turkish bonus from the results of this war is slightly exaggerated, since
    The Convention on the Legal Status of the Caspian Sea - an international treaty between Azerbaijan, Iran, Kazakhstan, Russia and Turkmenistan, signed on August 12, 2018 within the framework of the Fifth Caspian Summit in the Kazakh city of Aktau, states that the presence of armed forces in the Caspian Sea that do not belong to the parties to the treaty is prohibited, and also makes these five Caspian states responsible for maintaining security at sea and managing its resources, so the rush of the Turks to the shores of the Caspian Sea and further into Central Asia is premature
  28. Alexander Vorontsov
    Alexander Vorontsov 12 November 2020 20: 15
    -1
    "Yes, the Mi-24 may not be the best helicopter for combat at night. Maybe even the worst. So what?"
    =))
    Remember the movie? I have vague doubts. Shpak has a tape recorder, the ambassador has medals ...
    In Syria, the Aerospace Forces also flew suspiciously, regularly giving a formal pretext and, after the downed plane, under the noise, were transferred to the S-400 region.

    Now, just like magic ... a strange helicopter ... at night ... in the area where the battles are taking place.
    Any sane person understands that where there is a war going on without a compelling need it is better not to fly. And only he was shot down - the peacekeepers immediately flew side by side.

    And these were not paratroopers or other operational troops to help their own at bases in Armenia, namely, peacekeepers with appropriate insignia on transport, helmets and shoulders.
    Coincidence ... no more. Or ... well, no. It seemed ...
  29. Alexander Kopychev
    Alexander Kopychev 12 November 2020 20: 46
    0
    And Russia won in Karabakh.

    Friendship won". laughing
    Yes, it would be better if they let Azerbaijan win, and it would be their headache, but the Ottomans could have been pressured differently, but that is, that is, money is there, and all that ... Let the Armenians now adopt the advanced experience of Azerbaijan. You need to jump not on the parliamentary square, but near the lathe. This war did not change anything, only exacerbated it - some were not allowed to drink their blood to their fill, others did not wipe the bloody snot gently enough. 5 years will fly by, no one will notice, but what next ..?
  30. Falcon5555
    Falcon5555 12 November 2020 21: 04
    +2
    Shusha-musha ... Karabakh-Marabakh ... Why do we need all this? The USSR tried to stop it - it could not, in the absence of problems with access. And Russia, after all, can only get there if it is condescendingly allowed - only through Georgia, apparently. Fly, Russians, die ... Do we have few problems of our own? Vaughn - Covid fucking grows by leaps and bounds. The ruble is falling. But the propagandists have now found a new topic instead of the annoying Ukraine in order to divert attention from the main thing.
    1. depressant
      depressant 12 November 2020 23: 45
      +3
      And in the context of what you said, colleague
      Falcon 5555.
      "Representative of the Nagorno-Karabakh party RAF" Dashnaktsutyun "Gegham Manukyan stated that the Artsakh Defense Army intends to defend its independence. Even despite the agreement signed by Moscow, Baku and Yerevan."
      And what to do with it?
      After all, they will start a partisan war against our guys!
      And further:
      "The NKR volunteers are not going to give up most of their territory to Azerbaijan. Therefore, they are ready to stay in their positions and continue the fight. Experts from different countries said that the peace agreement may well break down because of this. In addition, the statements of the Defense Army, which they support members of the RAF Dashnaktsutyun party all over the world create a dangerous situation for the peacekeeping formation of the Russian Federation. Therefore, its mission may be postponed. "
  31. Wolga
    Wolga 12 November 2020 23: 50
    0
    There are a lot of posts ... opinions ... But for some reason no one pointed out such an important fact - throughout the territory of the Russian Federation, in fact, in all cities, there are both Azerbaijani and Armenian diasporas. How many of you would like to get under the massacre a la 90s? If the Russian Federation had supported one of the parties, an interethnic conflict would have caused a lot of problems in our home. Do you need it? It was non-intervention that made it possible to keep all this fraternity inside the country without bloodshed. In addition, a similar boiling point is Donbass in Ukraine, if Azerbaijan regained all of Karabakh, what do you think is the probability of Zelensky's attempt to go the same way? Yes, now with this "peacekeeping" - the stalemate situation has remained in Karabakh, a big uncle came - slapped on the ears and put him in a corner. But the most important thing is that the lack of desire of the US and the EU, in any way to challenge the decision made by Moscow, gives food for thought to the "hot heads" in Ukraine ...
  32. Mmm.
    Mmm. 13 November 2020 11: 23
    +2
    They won back quickly. Where are the Armenian volunteers from the "Moscow" legion? Everyone waited and asked to fight for them, and they will love their homeland and then blame the Russian Federation and the Russians for everything. Abomination
  33. svoit
    svoit 13 November 2020 12: 15
    -1
    Quote: Arzt
    But now extreme nationalists may come in his place,

    Those who Russia wants will come, educational examples have already been taught by the West, it's time to learn something.
  34. iouris
    iouris 13 November 2020 15: 08
    0
    The war is not over. More than one fundamental issue has not been resolved.
  35. Radikal
    Radikal 13 November 2020 18: 53
    0
    A Turk and an Azeri are more than brothers (in the usual sense). It's like an Indian and a Pakistani. One people, simply divided by borders.
    I would not say that with regard to India and Pakistan. Religions are different. Islam in Pakistan and Hinduism in India. Languages ​​are also - Urdu in Pakistan, in India - Hindi, so the comparison is not just a stretch, but simply not correct. sad
  36. Radikal
    Radikal 13 November 2020 19: 31
    0
    Quote: Sunflower
    I really like the work of Roman, and his opinion often coincides with mine. But not now. I don't share the general enthusiasm for another victory. Justify:
    Armenia is dissatisfied with the results of the war, they do not want to admit their defeat, talks about revising the peace agreement have already begun.
    Azerbaijan is dissatisfied with the results of the war, they were not allowed to take Stepanakert. Conversations on the topic "politics did not allow the military to win" have already begun.
    Turkey. We organized the conflict competently. We have strengthened our positions in the region. Raised the authority of their weapons. Here they are - the winners.
    Russia. Was originally in a losing situation. Armenia is an ally, but military operations are taking place on the territory of Azerbaijan. You cannot support the aggressor, and you cannot drain an ally. Tsutswang ...
    And there are bad nuances - the events again turned out to be unexpected for us (see Ukraine-2014).
    Our helicopter has been shot down, the Turks are again present, and again no one will answer for this (monetary compensation is not punishment for the guilty).
    Our peacekeepers will have to solve tasks in an atmosphere when both sides of the conflict are dissatisfied with Russia. And it's good if they don't care about the soup. But in my opinion, this will not end there. The helicopter was fired upon as it accompanied a convoy of peacekeepers.
    The accepted solution to the issue is not final. In the best traditions of the Kremlin, the situation is not resolved, but "frozen" (as in the Donbass and Chechnya).
    ... as well as in South Ossetia, Abkhazia, Transnistria, and ... Syria. sad
  37. Ganja
    Ganja 13 November 2020 20: 39
    +2
    I probably haven’t read anything more than a large-scale article for a long time Azerbaijan’s victory is a fact, and it’s not so much a victory for Azerbaijan as a state, but a victory for Azerbaijanis as a multinational society. This victory even has the contribution of those Armenians who have been with us all these 30 years in Azerbaijan, even their children participated in this liberation mission. An example please, the son of the sister of the former would-be defense minister of Armenia Harutyunyan. As a Soviet officer, he swore to serve the entire Soviet people, and not to whom the Armenian Natsiks were when they began this bloody massacre. In contrast to him, his nephew, already a post-Soviet period, being an officer of the Azerbaijani army, honorably fulfilled the oath he took.
  38. Gato
    Gato 14 November 2020 09: 57
    0
    In such wars, there are no winners - there are ultimate beneficiaries.
  39. Icarus
    Icarus 17 November 2020 21: 41
    -1
    [quote = Arzt] [quote] From the very beginning of the hot phase I spoke and I say now - everything that Azerbaijan planned and did - everything was at least - with the consent of Moscow ... [/ quote]
    Sure. The task is to remove Pashinyan. And to prevent states from gaining a foothold in the region.
    [Quote] And also a bonus in the form of strengthening relations with the Turks [/ quote] Are you going to strengthen something with a historical enemy and an actual geopolitical rival? Of course, it is not necessary to start fighting with them ourselves, but soon it will still have to be, since everything is heading towards this.
  40. Aleks2000
    Aleks2000 17 November 2020 22: 01
    0
    Around a bunch of articles on sayitah that, of course, Putin won.