Military Review

How the Prussian infantry became the best in Europe

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How the Prussian infantry became the best in Europe
Frederick II at the Battle of Zorndorf, 1758 Artist K. Rechling


Frederick II, also known as Frederick the Great, entered history the Prussian king, devoted to the army and the ideas of its development. During his reign (from 1740 to 1786) the foundations of the Prussian-German statehood were laid. The Prussian infantry has earned itself the reputation of being the best in Europe in terms of training, skill and stamina on the battlefield. Only Russian infantrymen could compete with her in courage, courage and steadfastness in battle. At the same time, Frederick the Great did not create the Prussian army from scratch. He largely took advantage of the fruits of the activities of his father Frederick Wilhelm I, who began the process of seriously strengthening the Prussian army.

In a way, the plot of the story about Alexander the Great and his father Philip II of Macedon was repeated here. The army that brought glory to Alexander was also patiently collected and improved by his father. But Alexander the Great entered history (thanks to his intelligence, charisma and the ability to use this army) forever, who conquered most of Asia with his troops. The same thing happened many hundreds of years later in Prussia, where King Frederick Wilhelm I made the Prussian army the strongest on the continent, but its soldiers became famous in the battles led by his son Frederick II in the wars for the Austrian succession and in the Seven Years' War.

The economy must be economical


The basis of the Prussian army, which was able to fight on equal terms with Austria and Russia, was laid by King Frederick William I. For the long 27 years of his reign in Prussia, "economy" and "control" became the main words in government. At the same time, Frederick Wilhelm I, who left a memory of himself as a "soldier king", began with himself. The Prussian king was distinguished by a rare thrift at that time, was simple and rude, hated Versailles, luxury and the French, pursued extravagance. The savings concerned him personally. The staff of the court servants was reduced to 8, only 30 horses remained in the royal stables, and the size of pensions was also reduced. Only on this the king reduced his budget from 300 to 50 thousand thalers, personally deleting even the most insignificant, at first glance, expenses.


King of Prussia Frederick Wilhelm I

The funds saved were used to strengthen the armed forces, the army was the king's passion. Frederick William I spared no expense on the Prussian army. A case went down in history when the king gave the inherited collection of Chinese porcelain to the Elector of Saxony Augustus the Strong for a regiment of dragoons. The regiment received serial number 6 and was known as the "Porcelain Dragoons" (Porzellandragoner).

The "soldier king" inherited from his father an army of less than 30 thousand people. By the time of the end of his reign in 1740, 83 thousand people had already served in the Prussian army. The Prussian army became the fourth largest in Europe, second only to France, Russia and Austria. At the same time, in terms of population, the country occupied only 13th place on the continent. An interesting feature was the king's love for tall soldiers. The treasury has never spared money on the recruitment of such military personnel. Military service was also curious in this regard. According to Prussian laws, if a peasant had several sons, then the yard and farm were transferred to the son who had the smallest height, so that the tall sons would not shy away from serving in the Prussian army.

It was under Frederick Wilhelm I that military service was introduced, which in general made it possible to turn Prussia into a militarized state. At the same time, the king did not spare money for recruiting soldiers outside of Prussia, but preferred local personnel. By the end of his reign, 2/3 of his army were Prussian subjects. In an era when most of the states of Europe were directly dependent on foreign troops and mercenaries, this was a significant achievement. As good as the mercenaries were, they would never have the same motivation as the subjects of the Prussian crown.

Frames decide everything


One of the advantages that allowed Prussia to become a strong military power by the middle of the 1500th century was the officer cadre. A lot has been done to raise the prestige of the officer service in the country. The main positions not only in the military, but also in the civilian areas were entrusted in Prussia only to representatives of the nobility. At the same time, only generic nobles could become officers, representatives of the bourgeoisie were not accepted into the officer corps. At the same time, the military profession itself provided a good income. A captain in an infantry regiment of the Prussian army earned about XNUMX thalers, which at that time was a very decent amount of money.


King of Prussia Frederick II the Great

All officers received a decent education at the military school, which was a cadet infantry battalion, where there was a separate cavalry company. Upon leaving the school, infantry officers received the rank of ensign or lieutenant, in the cavalry - cornet. At the same time, the children of noble families could not become officers without receiving a military education. Mercenaries from abroad were also admitted to training, primarily from various Protestant north German lands, as well as neighboring countries: Sweden and Denmark. Despite these restrictions, it was not the nobles who could receive the officer's rank. This rarely happened, but there were such cases. Representatives of the lower classes who distinguished themselves with service zeal and courage could be promoted to officers.

Without a military education, it was impossible to become an officer in the Prussian army. The practice of buying posts, which was actually legalized in those years in some European armies (for example, in France), was not even heard in Prussia. But when appointed to the next position, the origin and nobility did not play any role, and only the real military successes of the officer were evaluated. The training of cadets in the cadet corps lasted for two years. At the same time, the cadets were mercilessly trained and drilled in accordance with the traditional Prussian severity (the same as for the rank and file of the army). Through everything that fell to the lot of ordinary ordinary soldiers, the officers themselves went through two years of training.

Unrivaled rate of fire


The main advantage of the Prussian infantry, which clearly distinguished it from the background of the infantry of other countries, was the unsurpassed rate of fire. The emphasis on firefighting at a distance has always been made and occupied a large place in the training of troops. All the tactics of the Prussian infantry were based on suppressing the enemy with a superior rate of fire, followed by a decisive bayonet attack, which in some cases did not even reach.

The armament of the classic Prussian infantryman of the era of Frederick the Great consisted of flintlock rifles with a bayonet, as well as sabers or broadswords. Earlier than other armies of Europe, the Prussian adopted iron ramrods and funnel-shaped seeds, which was also one of the reasons for the success of the Prussian infantrymen, but far from the main one. The main reason has always been to prepare and bring actions to automatism. The Prussian infantry always followed their own tactics. Despite the use of flintlocks, thanks to better training and education, the Prussian infantryman fired up to 5-6 shots per minute. In turn, the infantry of the Austrian army (rightly considered very strong in Europe), even after the adoption and introduction of iron ramrods, did not fire more than three shots, and when using wooden ones, this figure was reduced to two shots per minute. The Prussian infantryman almost always fired 2-3 times more often than his opponent.


The Prussian battalions literally threw lead at the enemy, managing to make 5-6 volleys at the enemy. The moral influence from such quick shooting was very strong. Often, the enemy retreated and surrendered positions on the battlefield even before hand-to-hand combat. This happened against the backdrop of the actions of the Prussian cavalry, which sought to reach the flanks or go behind enemy lines. The cavalry acted simultaneously with the advancing walls of the infantry.

Actually, given the disadvantages weapons of that time, one could not really hope for accurate shooting. But when the Prussian infantrymen shot the enemy two or three times, more bullets reached the enemy soldiers. And the likelihood that they would find a target was higher. Shooting on the move also negatively affected accuracy. At the same time, the moral effect was still great. And if the opponents passed in front of the lead shaft, then the Prussians, on the contrary, were distracted by the shooting itself. This process occupied the fighters in the most terrible moments of the battle, whenever possible, drowning out the feelings of self-preservation and fear in them.

Advantage in walking


The advantage of the Prussian army was the standardization of uniforms, weapons, ammunition, daggers, and even belts. This facilitated the supply of troops and the process of training soldiers. A very large place during training was given to movement in battle formations and marching columns. The Prussian infantry always marched a lot, and it paid off. The ability to move quickly and to move consistently over virtually any terrain were important advantages of the Prussians. Strict drill in the middle of the XNUMXth century meant a lot.


In those years, there was no trace of mechanization of the army. And the standard of mobility was the cavalry units, which were in the minority in any army. The brunt of the battles and battles was borne, first of all, by ordinary infantrymen. The success of battles, and sometimes wars, often depended on how quickly the infantry would reach from point A to point B and be able to line up in battle formations.

The speed of transitions of the Prussian army of the era of Frederick the Great was unmatched in Europe. By this criterion, the Prussian infantry was superior to all. The Prussian infantrymen could move at a speed of 90 steps per minute without disturbing the formation. When approaching the enemy, the speed was reduced to 70 steps per minute. At the same time, if the Austrian infantry, without straining, could overcome about 120 kilometers in 10 days (which did not happen often), then for the Prussian infantry to overcome 180 kilometers in 7 days was quite a feasible task. The gain in the speed of transitions opened up great opportunities for the Prussian army. This made it possible, before the enemy, to take advantageous positions on the battlefield, seize bridges or reach crossings, quickly respond to the threat of encirclement, and transfer troops from one direction to another.
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  1. Revolver
    Revolver 12 November 2020 05: 46
    +4
    In Soviet times, they wrote in a completely negative way: Prussian drill, shagistika, "a soldier - a machine gun attached to a gun." And only now it turns out that all this had a deep meaning.
    1. infantryman2020
      infantryman2020 12 November 2020 06: 11
      12
      Also.
      Here, in Soviet times, they wrote completely negatively: "German" (WWII) thinks stereotyped, acts without initiative ... Well, stupid .. He even starts attacks at the same time, moreover, after breakfast with coffee. That's the Red Army, ingenuity, initiative from soldier to commander.
      And only now it turns out that everything is not quite so, at least a year, until 1944. It turns out that in the Wehrmacht the squad leader had more freedom to make decisions in battle than our junior and middle-level commanders. And this initiative was cultivated in them.
      (cutting off half of the inadequate jingoistic objections and indignations: it's about efficiency, not about who ultimately ended up in the enemy's capital, without taking into account losses)
      1. Viktor Sergeev
        Viktor Sergeev 12 November 2020 08: 25
        -2
        Yes, it was, a continuous drill and templates, which is why Frederick did not do anything worthwhile. He won until he ran into Russia, with its unpredictability and only Apraksin's betrayal helped him survive.
        1. Revolver
          Revolver 12 November 2020 10: 20
          14
          Quote: Victor Sergeev
          He won until he ran into Russia, with its unpredictability and only Apraksin's betrayal helped him survive.
          No. the betrayal of Romanov Peter III Fedorovich helped him survive. Although, from his point of view, this was no betrayal, since, even after becoming at the suggestion of Aunt Lisa Romanov, in his heart he remained von Holstein-Gottorp, Elector of Holstein, and an alliance with Frederick made the fullest sense for reconquering in favor of Holstein Schleswig from Denmark , Russia's ally in the Seven Years War. One way or another, after the death of Elizabeth, Peter not only made peace with Frederick, but also returned to him all the aunts of the conquest, including Konigsberg, who had sworn allegiance to the Russian crown. But the nee Sophia Augusta Frederica von Anhalt-Zerbst, although not by blood, but by not too happy marriage to this very Peter, but felt like Romanova and became Catherine the Great.
          1. fiberboard
            fiberboard 14 November 2020 09: 59
            +2
            No, the troops were already withdrawn by Catherine 2. The war was fought over Holstein, which Frederick II took from the Danes. At that time, the Holsteins were considered Danes, and Peter III was considered their duke. Emperor Peter 2 was strongly slandered by both his ex-wife and her retinue, since they did not have any rights to the throne. If he had not been overthrown, he would have either greatly facilitated serfdom, or would have abolished it altogether. After all, he was overthrown by a group of conspirators, led by his wife. And the Russian nobility was, for the most part, for him. After all, it was he who first published the decree on the liberty of the nobility, Catherine II canceled it, and only later signed it.
            1. Kwas
              Kwas 14 November 2020 10: 44
              0
              Something you have so ...
              Quote: fiberboard
              And the Russian nobility was, for the most part, for him.

              Oh, not a fact. First of all, it was insulted by the shameful world after the victorious war, by the return of the already conquered (and sworn oath) Königsberg. Again, his demonstrative Germanophilism, his disdain for everything Russian, is, as far as I know, a historical fact. And our nobility still remembered Anna Ioannovna.
              Quote: fiberboard
              If he had not been overthrown, he would have either greatly facilitated serfdom, or would have abolished it altogether.

              Hear it for the first time. Where did the infa come from that he had similar projects at all?
              1. Senior seaman
                Senior seaman 14 November 2020 11: 30
                0
                It is unlikely to abolish the CP, but in general, in some ways, Peter made life easier for his subjects. He abolished the secret office, began secularization, abolished the persecution of the Old Believers, and even on trifles. All this, coupled with the "Manifesto on the Liberty of the Nobility" gave hope that there would be a "Manifesto on the Liberty of the Peasantry". But in fact, the KP has only grown stronger.
              2. fiberboard
                fiberboard 14 November 2020 19: 55
                0
                Historians in their studies of that era rely on documents from those times. But after Peter 3, his enemies ruled, it is clear that they were not interested in leaving the truth about his activities. Germanophilus, friend of Frederick 2. Let's not believe in everything Valentin Pikul, he is a writer. There is serious research on the Internet based on correspondence from foreign ambassadors, reports from spies and other sources. Yes, and there are enough of our sources, where Peter 3 is characterized as a rather intelligent politician and statesman. Do you even remember what were the reasons for the Seven Years War? And in general, the question is, was it necessary to fight?
        2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 12 November 2020 11: 04
          -1
          Quote: Victor Sergeev
          Yes, it was, a continuous drill and templates, which is why Frederick did not do anything worthwhile.

          right, so his. In addition, Frederick was homosexual. laughing
          1. Odessa Greek
            Odessa Greek 13 November 2020 21: 54
            -1
            Do you have a fad on homosexuality? It's not being pursued now laughing
            1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
              Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 13 November 2020 22: 33
              -1
              And what did you do this rack? It's just that this is a fact in the piggy bank of the defamator of the Prussians and, concurrently, the hyperpatriot Sergeev. So that the insignificance of Frederick the Great sparkles with new, rainbow colors laughing
          2. Kwas
            Kwas 14 November 2020 10: 46
            0
            Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
            On top of that, Friedrich was homosexual.

            Either "homo" or "hetero", but definitely a "sexualist". laughing
          3. Senior seaman
            Senior seaman 14 November 2020 11: 31
            0
            Like the aforementioned Alexander the Great :)
        3. Proxima
          Proxima 12 November 2020 12: 05
          +3
          Quote: Victor Sergeev
          Yes, it was, a continuous drill and templates, which is why Frederick did not do anything worthwhile. He won until he ran into Russia, with its unpredictability and only Apraksin's betrayal helped him survive.

          Prussian military training could not be elevated to an absolute, in particular, Suvorov fought with this. No drill saved Prussia during the Napoleonic Wars, although in the battles where the Prussians took part, the French did not have a numerical advantage. Here is the most powerful army in Europe.
          1. Dart2027
            Dart2027 12 November 2020 19: 03
            +2
            Quote: Proxima
            No drill saved Prussia during the Napoleonic wars

            But without Napoleon, the French and the Germans did not really succeed.
            Quote: Proxima
            Prussian military training could not be made absolute,

            I would say that any system cannot be elevated to the absolute, otherwise it will start not to help, but to interfere.
            1. Sertorius
              Sertorius 13 November 2020 07: 35
              +1
              But without Napoleon, the French and the Germans did not really succeed.

              So-so argument. Davout at Auerstedt without Napoleon crushed the main army of the Prussians to dust.
              1. Dart2027
                Dart2027 13 November 2020 18: 31
                0
                Quote: Sertorius
                Davout under Auerstedt without Napoleon

                There was something like the "miracle on the Marne", but in general the Germans beat the French more often than the French did the Germans.
                1. Kwas
                  Kwas 14 November 2020 10: 52
                  0
                  Quote: Dart2027
                  in general, the Germans beat the French more often than the French beat the Germans.

                  Perhaps 50/50. In the thirty-year-old, the French were more often beaten, under the "sun king", Napoleon, and in the revolutionary wars too, and in the seven-year and Franco-Prussian wars, on the contrary.
                  1. Dart2027
                    Dart2027 14 November 2020 11: 35
                    0
                    Quote: Kwas
                    At the age of thirty, the French beat more often, with the "sun king"

                    Well, this is even before Frederick, when the German army was not yet an effective fighting machine.
              2. Metallurg_2
                Metallurg_2 27 November 2020 21: 52
                0
                But under the Sedan it was not lucky, although Napoleon was there. The truth is not the same. So Napoleon is not the same as Napoleon.
          2. Senior seaman
            Senior seaman 14 November 2020 11: 34
            0
            Quote: Proxima
            No drill saved Prussia during the Napoleonic wars,

            The tactics changed, but the Prussians and Austrians did not understand this.
      2. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 12 November 2020 10: 41
        +7
        Quote: infantryman2020
        It turns out that in the Wehrmacht, the squad leader had more freedom to make decisions in battle than our junior and middle-level commanders. And this initiative was cultivated in them.

        That's right: the fact is that German initiative relied on a store of knowledge. Easy and simple to improvise when you know clearly musical notation charter, instructions and all standard techniques. In our country, the initiative of the commanders in the first couple of years of the war constantly turned into the invention of crutches and terrible chimeras, because the average commander of the Red Army often did not even know the charter. And some individuals did not even know the OSH of their connections
        Combined arms and infantry commanders know very little about artillery. I want to report that the Chief of the General Staff, when the People's Commissar of Defense was conducting exercises in the Western Military District, asked the operative of the headquarters of the 1st rifle corps: "Tell me about the composition of your corps and how many artillery regiments you have," this operative could not answer how many artillery regiments have a corps. But, excuse me, he is an employee of the operational department, he must know. Why doesn't he know? Who allows him to be an employee of the operational department and not know the composition of the corps?
        © M. A. Parsegov, lieutenant general of artillery, inspector general of the artillery of the Red Army. Materials of the meeting of the senior leadership of the Red Army on December 23-31, 1940

        After all, it came to insanity: in the second year of the war, the Charter had to be brought to the subordinates in the orders of the front and army levels - in them, in the part devoted to correcting shortcomings, there were literally quotes from the regulations.
        Moreover, when our commanders remembered the charter, the effectiveness of the actions of their units and formations immediately increased sharply. Here is the GABTU's assessment of the actions of the 4th brigade near Mtsensk:
        ... the brigade took the path of firmly fulfilling the constitutional requirements, both in relation to the organization of intelligence and in relation to the organization of defense itself. The defense was resilient by [creating] tank firing points both in front and in depth. Moreover, the firing points were nomadic, which did not decipher the defense. In short, the organization of defense was carried out strictly according to the charter
        © "Reviews of the combat operations of tank brigades from August 25, 1941 to January 27, 1942".
      3. strannik1985
        strannik1985 12 November 2020 12: 53
        +1
        It turns out that in the Wehrmacht, the squad leader

        The concept is correct - abundant fire damage, in particular, the standard wearable stock of cartridges for MG.34 of 1238 pieces (it could have been up to ~ 1500), i.e. the machine gun could press down the enemy's squad with fire until the shooters come within the range of a grenade throw.
        Likewise at the level of the company - battalion - regiment and above.
        At the same time, in strategy, the Germans screwed up in the summer of 1941.
      4. Lesnik982
        Lesnik982 27 November 2020 00: 51
        0
        In the Wehrmacht, commanders had more initiative than everyone else, and not only at the squad level. The Red Army is not alone here. In an offensive mobile war, it could not be otherwise.
    2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 12 November 2020 06: 16
      14
      Sergei did not mention the linear tactics of the Prussian infantry, which could act in an "oblique formation" creating pressure on a specific enemy flank.
      As for the rest, the ability to shoot volleys in the line was still worth a lot. In the Russian, British, Dutch armies, half-tone shooting was practiced. What's more advanced is a moot point!
      Also, a beautiful karakol in the cavalry yielded to a direct onslaught in a dense formation.
      In the future, a loose (chasseur) stand develops, just for causing maximum frustration to dense squares and columns.
      I will not go further into the derby. To develop the topic, it is necessary to take each army during the Seven Years War and compare it in a complex way: infantry, artillery, cavalry plus logistics.
      So we used slingshots to protect ourselves from cavalry until the third-quarter of the XNUMXth century!
      Well, somewhere like that.
      1. Lexus
        Lexus 12 November 2020 06: 21
        10
        You are absolutely right. The point is not so much in the "bonus" shots as in the iron discipline, which significantly increases the controllability of troops during transitions and on the battlefields. I fully support your proposal to the Author about the continuation.
        1. Viktor Sergeev
          Viktor Sergeev 12 November 2020 08: 26
          -9
          It's all about the cowardice of the Austrians and other "Europeans".
      2. Revolver
        Revolver 12 November 2020 06: 31
        +8
        Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
        Also, a beautiful karakol in the cavalry yielded to a direct onslaught in a dense formation.

        The beautiful caracol was very effective against pikemen and wicked musketeers. The pikemen did not have anything at all to respond to the firing of heavy pistols, and rapid-fire - the reiters had at least 2, or even 3, and 4 pistols. The musketeers had 1 salvo in reserve, and then on foot with swords against horsemen with swords or broadswords. It was when flint muskets, more convenient for loading and firing, appeared, and with bayonets, and musketeers could fire a salvo from a distance at which pistols were not effective, then both the caracol and the reitars ended. They were replaced by cuirassiers and lancers with pikes and an attack in close formation.
        1. BDRM 667
          BDRM 667 12 November 2020 06: 55
          +7
          How the Prussian infantry became the best in Europe
          Quote: Crowe
          "It's not enough to kill a Russian;

          In short:

          1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 12 November 2020 07: 17
            19
            The Prussian infantry in the minority beat: Austrians, French, Dutch. She beat precisely due to her tactics in the offensive !!!
            We took on persistence in defense and bayonet fighting! This is where the stone of the question arises as to which is more effective to shoot the enemy with volleys in a rank formation or to use more complex plutong fire on subunits! Although practice has shown that it is more effective to use skirmishers. And oblique linear orders are inferior to deep columns!
            By the way, the linear attacks of the Prussian grenadiers we held back in square! Another plus of our stability was the presence of regimental artillery in infantry formations. The Prussians came to this later. The Austrians were even later, but the French became trendsetters in artillery, loose and column formation. This determined the first victories during the French Revolution.
            With regard to Suvorov, he used completely different approaches to his victories. So your patriotic slogans refer to a different period and stage of the formation of the Russian infantry !!! Which beat everyone and everything before the Crimean War.
            1. BDRM 667
              BDRM 667 12 November 2020 07: 31
              0
              Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
              Your patriotic slogans refer to a different period and stage of the formation of the Russian infantry !!!

              Not slogans but quotations from A.V. Suvorov.
              And is patriotism a vice in general?

              At the expense of "other stages and periods" - was it not to the Elizabethan-Catherine period of the state of the army and its power that the commander appealed, so to speak about Prussia?
            2. Viktor Sergeev
              Viktor Sergeev 12 November 2020 08: 28
              -6
              The Prussians won when they faced cowardly soldiers under the leadership of incompetent commanders, but when they hit the Russians, neither rate of fire nor discipline helped them, they fled better than the Austrians, and only Apraksin's betrayal did not give the Russians the opportunity to sweep away Prussia.
              1. Ryazan87
                Ryazan87 12 November 2020 15: 28
                +5
                Moreover, there is evidence of how Friedrich was defeated and almost captured by 4 "midshipmen", only the bastard Apraksin interfered)). Here they are, in fact:

                R.S. Seriously, it's shameful that nothing but this slag and the shameful penny film adaptation of "With Pen and Sword" was removed about such glorious pages of Russian military history ..
                1. Viktor Sergeev
                  Viktor Sergeev 13 November 2020 07: 31
                  -2
                  Although this was removed and it was good, but the majority did not even hear about the great victory, turned into nothing by one insignificant person.
              2. Prometey
                Prometey 25 November 2020 14: 04
                0
                Apraksin did not fight Frederick.
                In the battle of Zorndorf and Kunnersdorf, the Russian army was hit very hard by the Prussians.
            3. Ryazan87
              Ryazan87 12 November 2020 11: 42
              14
              If they knew how carefully Rumyantsev and Suvorov studied the Prussian army and the methods of training soldiers (Alexander Vasilyevich himself was not lazy to translate the Prussian regulations), then they would never have written this.
              What is "oblique linear order" is not very clear. Implementation of the principle of concentration of superior forces in a separate sector of the battle to break through the enemy front - this was what Epaminondas used.
              The Russians built the square directly from a good life, and all battles with the Prussians were fought from the defense - too.
            4. Catfish
              Catfish 12 November 2020 12: 51
              +8
              Vlad, hello hi
              I'm here about the rate of fire, the author writes that
              ... the Prussian infantryman fired up to 5-6 shots per minute
              , a small example for comparison - Berdan rifle No. 1 had a rate of fire of 6-8 rounds per minute and this with a sliding ("bolt") bolt, inevitably there are some doubts about such a rate of fire of the Prussian soldiers, even with all their excellent training.
              The same "Berdanka".
              1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                Kote Pan Kokhanka 12 November 2020 13: 44
                +6
                The author confuses the rate of fire of the rank order, with the line! The line fired three volleys per minute for the first time, then two! VikNik gave even lower rates.
                We fought off only horse attacks with volleys, while in defense we practiced more difficult half-tong shooting. Kara, I agree with Ryazantsev, was not used from the best of luck. But it was successful, and against the Turks even in the offensive.
                Although contemporaries noted the skill of shooting the Cossacks, especially ships. One shot there, and two or three comrades were loading! A similar practice was used in naval battles, but mainly selectively from the Mars.
                We are against the Tatars and not only used this practice everywhere, including from the walk-cities, from the spot, from the polisads!
                Summing up the results of the Seven Years War. The Prussians took by maneuver, onslaught and well-oiled firing in volleys. The Austrians played defensively, but were less trained, although they used half-tong shooting. The French were playing from maneuver, trying to massively use heavy artillery on foot. We fought hard in defense, in squares, using the half-tone, slingshots and polisads. Our feature is the massive use of regimental artillery.
                In the main, we and the Prussians went with bayonets, although the latter tried to use cavalry at every opportunity.
                Well, somewhere like that!
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 12 November 2020 14: 23
                  +8
                  We and the Prussians were mostly hostile,
                  Swedes.
                  1. Ryazan87
                    Ryazan87 12 November 2020 15: 30
                    +5
                    The Prussians a couple of times and went to the cavalry with bayonets. With the Swedes, small, but bloody hand-to-hand fighting they happened, which is true, then it is true)
                  2. sivuch
                    sivuch 12 November 2020 15: 51
                    +7
                    We and the Prussians were mostly hostile,
                    Swedes.
                    the Swedes under Karl12 and went to the lances. Not from a good life.
                    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                      Kote Pan Kokhanka 13 November 2020 08: 29
                      0
                      Quote: sivuch
                      We and the Prussians were mostly hostile,
                      Swedes.
                      the Swedes under Karl12 and went to the lances. Not from a good life.

                      Well, then the bayonet was just appearing on the battlefield! Baganet had one serious flaw in being inserted into the barrel. A pike for repelling cavalry strikes is much more convenient than a fuse with a baganet. And cheaper.
                      By the way, during the sieges of Ochakov and Izmail, our Cossacks also used pikes. Kutuzov and Potemkin noted this as a disadvantage. Although the irregulars were constantly used in the siege work of Turkish fortresses.
              2. Undecim
                Undecim 12 November 2020 13: 57
                10
                inevitably, there are some doubts about the rate of fire of the Prussian soldiers, even with all their excellent training.
                "The Prussian soldier fired up to 4 volleys at the shooting range; the combat rate of fire reached 2-3 volleys per minute. The battalion was divided into 8 plutongs, and the plutongs fired in turn. For 20 seconds, volleys of all 8 plutongs followed one after the other, starting from the right-flank, and at the time of the salvo of the left-flank plutong, the right-flank was already ready for a new salvo. Such an organization of fire was a kind of requirement to keep pace when firing, forced to trim fire, strain attention, discipline the troops. Although in battle this artificial fire was rarely preserved, yet other armies strove to imitate the Prussian in this Kunststuck. "
                Svechin A.A. The evolution of military art. Volume I. - M.-L.: Voengiz, 1928
              3. Lexus
                Lexus 12 November 2020 16: 55
                +6
                Of course, the Author has embellished it as a "little". I was ashamed to point it out. In real conditions, the Prussian SOMETIMES it turned out to "squeeze out" a third AIMED volley, while others, as a rule, fired no more than two.
              4. Viktor Sergeev
                Viktor Sergeev 13 November 2020 07: 34
                -1
                If you shoot from the Berdan without aiming, then I think you can give more than ten. So the Germans fired without looking, since there was very little sense from the then guns.
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 13 November 2020 13: 55
                  +1
                  ... there was very little sense from the then guns.

                  This is unlikely, otherwise bows and crossbows would remain in service all over the world.
                  1. Ryazan87
                    Ryazan87 13 November 2020 14: 21
                    +2
                    It's just the influence of movies) There, bows shoot at prohibitive distances and sew armor like paper.
                    In addition, even a mid-18th century line infantryman's flintlock rifle up to 200 meters away is a fatal weapon. There, the initial speed is about the same as that of a revolver, only a lead ball of 15-17 grams arrives. Those. you are either a corpse or an invalid. Well, aiming at the then dense structures could not really bother.
                    Here they usually start to snort, they say, 200 meters - what nonsense.
                    Suddenly:
                    Shooting practice exercises (for AK74)
                    1 UUS
                    Shooting from a spot at an emerging target from various positions during the day
                    Target Range: 100 m.
                    There the maximum is 500 m in a group, and the main working distance is 100-300 meters.
                    1. Catfish
                      Catfish 13 November 2020 16: 13
                      0
                      Too lazy to go into details, but 20 steps for pistols of that time (and not only) were considered a perfectly acceptable distance. smile
            5. sivuch
              sivuch 12 November 2020 15: 48
              +2
              To be honest, I don’t remember that the Prussians beat the Dutch. not that I doubted your words, but I would like details.
            6. Sertorius
              Sertorius 13 November 2020 08: 03
              0
              And oblique linear orders are inferior to deep columns!

              If there is anything deep in the world, it is the myth of "deep columns" on the battlefield. Even Chandler's authority was unable to break through the "deep columns". Even Napoleon himself could not dispel the tale that he fought in columns. lol
              Although on the island of St. Helen, he, criticizing Jomini, wrote that the Russians attack in a three-legged system, but he himself prefers a two-legged one. Column of two ranks? belay
              A column is a way to move to the battlefield and nothing more.
      3. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master 12 November 2020 14: 28
        +6
        Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
        In the Russian, British, Dutch armies, half-tone shooting was practiced. What's more advanced is a moot point!

        The division of troops into smaller organizational units is effective only when there is a sufficient number of initiative and competent junior commanders. In order to command a company (battle), a company commander is enough. If you want to divide the companies into plutongs - if you please, besides the company commander, appoint the commanders of these same plutongs. In addition, the load on the commander of a "dismembered" company also increases - in comparison with the commander of an "undivided" company, he should be much better prepared, as, indeed, the entire higher command staff.
        Of course, shooting plutongs, maneuvering plutongs on the battlefield will be more flexible and effective, but only if these plutongs are provided with the appropriate commanders.
      4. hohol95
        hohol95 12 November 2020 23: 09
        0
        Sergei did not mention the linear tactics of the Prussian infantry, which could act in an "oblique formation" creating pressure on a specific enemy flank.

        Frederick must have read attentively about the wars in Ancient Greece - "The Battle of Leuctra".
        The cavalry battle ended in victory for the Boeotians, who drove the enemy cavalry back. Then the attack of the Theban phalanx began. The offensive actually took place in an oblique formation: the left flank moved far forward during the movement, and the right one lagged behind.
    3. BDRM 667
      BDRM 667 12 November 2020 07: 21
      0
      The article had to be properly titled like this:
      "How the Prussian infantry COULD be the best in Europe"

      WHO prevented her from being such, what is the army, whose soldier - we know.
      But at the same time, for some reason, after the magnificent high-profile victories of the Russian army over such an enemy, no one calls our army the best in Europe ...
  2. Crowe
    Crowe 12 November 2020 05: 54
    +8
    Prussian infantry? The best in Europe?
    The Prussian infantry attacked the Russian units, primarily the Observatory Corps, which consisted of non-fired recruits. The attack was helped to repel the Russian cavalry, but then she herself came under attack from 46 squadrons of cavalry of Frederick II, commanded by General Friedrich Wilhelm von Seydlitz-Kurzbach. The Prussian cavalry, led by a skillful commander, attacked the enemy from the flank, front and rear, capturing several artillery batteries.
    But Russian soldiers and officers everywhere fought to the death, maintaining the formation and repelling all enemy attacks. Then the Prussian king moved his infantry forward. Her blow was incredibly powerful, but the onslaught was not only repelled, but also turned into a counterattack, as a result of which the German grenadiers were put to flight.

    "It's not enough to kill a Russian;
    1. Viktor Sergeev
      Viktor Sergeev 12 November 2020 08: 29
      -5
      It's just that the author "forgot" about Russia and its army, all the time cites the Austrians as an example, "forgetting" how the Russians beat the Prussians of Frederick 2, but his title does not fit with reality, even if burst.
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 12 November 2020 09: 28
        +6
        The author has not forgotten anything, mentioning twice in the text that we beat the vaunted Frederick !!!

        Commenting on the article without reading it and putting stamps on the Author is a stupid lot of "hamsters" in search of "likes"!
        Sergey superficially touched upon the interesting topic of Friedrich's oblique linear tactics of infantry units, to which we and the coalition opposed our tactical techniques! With the apparent uniformity, the Prussians hammered all the worn out and not stubborn, but skidded on us!
        The Saxons, Austrians, French and Dutch had to tear Prussia to pieces in the Seven Years' War, but it did not work! Our participation in the company was partly episodic. In the offensive we were stopped more than once or twice. In defense, they could not move.
        I am interested in the tactical techniques of the Prussian, Austrian, British and French infantry! The reasons for our superiority over the armies of Europe.
        For example, the role of the Shuvalov reform during the Seven Years War! Or why Walter's artillery - ultra-modern at that time, did not show itself in all its glory and glory!
        It is reliably known that we relied in defense on archaic slingshots, with which Suvorov fought!
        But on the verge of collapse, we sometimes got up. Remember the rise of Rumyantsev's glory!
        It was the confrontation with Frederick that gave birth to theoretical methods that first raised revolutionary France and our domestic army to the top of military glory !!!
        1. Ryazan87
          Ryazan87 12 November 2020 11: 54
          +9
          With the apparent uniformity, the Prussians hammered all the worn out and not stubborn, but skidded on us!

          There was no uniformity among the Prussians. Frederick could attack in columns on a wide front, and conduct a march through the forests for an unexpected strike. By the way, horse artillery is also it (much more mobile on the battlefield).
          Our participation in the company was partly episodic.

          a bold statement.
          The reasons for our superiority over the armies of Europe.

          They sensibly understood the strengths and weaknesses of the enemy and did not try to play with him in maneuvering and controllability. They became in a tough defense - the abundance of guns, numerical superiority and natural tenacity and courage of Russian soldiers gave this very superiority. Under Zorndorf, the army was simply not controlled from a certain point, and under Gross-Jägersdorf, too. Kunersdorf - Friedrich just went too far and threw the army into a frontal hand-to-hand battle in Kugrund. The Russians did it. What a tactic ...
          we relied in defense on the archaic slingshots with which Suvorov fought!

          Rumyantsev, rather. Archaic slingshots were good at restraining the cavalry - in order to refuse it was necessary to raise the level of training of the infantry at times.
          1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 12 November 2020 14: 04
            +5
            Suvorov and his contemporaries, relying on the statutes of the Seven Years War, and achieved this. Teachings, teachings and teachings again. Cavalry run-in, imitation of taking the shafts.
            “It's hard to learn, easy to fight,” and so on. The introduction of new uniforms, helmets, ammunition. Refusal to supply. In parallel, a number of cutting edge innovations in the organization of field and regimental artillery. The emergence of furshtat, unicorns. Here are the merits of a galaxy of our generals: Minkha, Shuvalov, Leslie, Orlovs, Potemkin, etc. Even the last favorite of Catherine Zotov was noted in the recreation of horse artillery.
            The Turks were far from being a simple enemy, for example, they used trenches. Cavalry and artillery were massively used.
            1. sivuch
              sivuch 12 November 2020 15: 54
              +5
              Even the last favorite of Catherine Zotov was noted in the recreation of horse artillery.
              You mean Platon Zubov?
              1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                Kote Pan Kokhanka 12 November 2020 16: 17
                +4
                Yes, he described himself!
                1. sivuch
                  sivuch 12 November 2020 16: 22
                  +4
                  it is always like that in felines. here is my Isabella (for her own - Squirrel) for half a year has never wet herself.
                  1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                    Kote Pan Kokhanka 13 November 2020 12: 47
                    +1
                    Appreciated!
                    I’ll climb the fence higher and go limp for the whole area !!! laughing
                    You canine yourself, then six months from shame wake up!
                    No offense, sometimes I am wrong, but I try to take criticism soberly. I write mainly from the phone and from memory. So it happens that I get into trouble. However, this is not the first time you make a remark to me, and it is not the last time that I agree with you!
                    1. sivuch
                      sivuch 13 November 2020 12: 52
                      +1
                      We Belgians are the most cultured of dogs. And we mark the sponsored territory not out of shame, but, on the contrary, to raise our significance.
                      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                        Kote Pan Kokhanka 13 November 2020 14: 01
                        0
                        The main thing is not to learn to fly !!!

                        An interesting monument to the Homeless Dog in Tyumen.
                2. Kwas
                  Kwas 14 November 2020 08: 20
                  -1
                  Why didn't you get accustomed to the tray? laughing
  3. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 12 November 2020 07: 00
    +7
    A case went down in history when the king gave the inherited collection of Chinese porcelain to the Elector of Saxony Augustus the Strong for a regiment of dragoons.
    In Saxony, this collection is called "dragoon vases".
    1. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 12 November 2020 09: 50
      +4
      Oh, you can discuss deliciously! drinks If you do not go into emotions and national issues ... hi
      Do you remember the conversation about the uniform of halberds and other "status weapons" of officers and non-commissioned officers?

      If the officer (left) has a "classic esponton" (with a wide leaf-shaped blade - there were others too! For example, in France in the late 17th - early 18th centuries), then the non-commissioned officer (right) has exactly that halberd. Although its blade clearly does not resemble the canon medieval. Nevertheless, this product was called exactly the halberd. yes
      It's a pity that the author himself does not participate in the discussion - it would be interesting to chat with him. drinks
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 12 November 2020 10: 01
        +4
        Well, here you are an expert, and I am more about women, dough and the Holy Inquisition.
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 12 November 2020 10: 24
          +4
          Well, here you are an expert, and I am more about women, dough and the Holy Inquisition.

          There is little literature on "status spears". Highly. Even Beheim twists. Or you need to look for some foreign source and translate. And about the techniques of esponton, it seems, the most graphic source (translated handicraft) is the French textbook of the printing house of Maitre Giffard, 1696.
          According to our "status spears" - in general, no one knows when the protazan appeared in Russia. The Brockhaus and Efron dictionary says that the Poles (and other adhering huskies) brought in during the Troubles. On the 18th century - you have to leaf through Viskovatov. How many volumes does he have? .. request
          And here are the subtleties of the historical image! Illustration in a French book XVIII century
          depicting Kenau Hasseler, the heroine of the siege of Haarlem in the 16th century.

          In the hands - esponton. But what is the shape of the blade? far from leafy.
          And here is an image of a French officer saluting with an esponton, from the very textbook of the Giffard printing house. Pay attention to the shape of the blade.

          That is, the French heroine of the Netherlands, more than a hundred years after that very siege of Haarlem ... the French added the esponton of the very form that they themselves used to see in their officers! hi
          And on the Dutch patriotic brochure itself of the XNUMXth century, Kenau is depicted with a weapon with a generally non-standard blade - such a thing can be attributed with a stretch to both a protazan and a halberd! request
          1. Mihaylov
            Mihaylov 12 November 2020 11: 46
            +5
            Quote: Pane Kohanku
            And here is an image of a French officer saluting with an esponton, from the very textbook of the Giffard printing house. Pay attention to the shape of the blade.

            Good afternoon Nikolai, in general it looks like an ordinary spear, although it is clearly written - esponton. If not for the signature, then I, for example, would never have guessed that this is an esponton. In general, what is the etymology of the word esponton (and protazan too)? laughing
            1. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 12 November 2020 12: 02
              +7
              If not for the signature, then I, for example, would never have guessed that this is an esponton. In general, what is the etymology of the word esponton (and protazan too)?

              Sergei, how knew that you would come! Glad, sincerely! drinks
              To quote Beheim: Partisane (German Partisane), in fact, is nothing more than a rune with short processes. It can be found until the 253th century, when it began to be widely used in the Landsknecht troops as a commander's polearm. Protazan remained popular in Germany and the Netherlands even in the XNUMXth century, where it gradually became a weapon of senior officers. In the XNUMXth century [XNUMX] in the German army, the colonel, lieutenant colonel, captain, senior lieutenant and lieutenant wore a small protasan - esponton (ie spear, Latin espietus, spedus, spentum; directly from the early Renaissance Spetum).
              But then Beheim twists:
              Around 1770 they were removed from service everywhere.
              Maybe specifically in his Austria - and yes. stop But in Prussia - I doubt it. request And there was still Russia, where Pavel Petrovich would reintroduce the espontons!
              From Beheim, from left to right:
              Figure: 393. Rune, partly gilded, richly decorated with etching; with sliding wings; foldable quadrangular shaft 1,78 m long has two hinges. Spain, approx. 1530 g.
              Figure: 394. Protazan, with shortened processes. Con. XV century
              Figure: 395. Venetian protasan, decorated with gilding etching. First floor. XVI century
              Figure: 396. Protazan of the bodyguards of the Bavarian Elector Ferdinand Maria; with etching. Dated in 1677. Tsarskoye Selo Arsenal.


              But to our conversation for the halberd in Russia:
              In the picture from left to right: 1- non-commissioned officer halberd arr. 1731. 2-army non-commissioned officer halberd arr. 1797 3-Guards Non-commissioned Officer Halberd Model 1797 4-officer espanton model 1741 5-officer espanton model 1797

              in general, it looks like an ordinary spear, although it is clearly written - esponton.

              He has a huge variety of blades!
              From Wikipedia - the figure of the officer from "Night Watch".

              But Marshal Villard personally leads the troops in the Battle of Denene. The officer at the bottom of the painting has an esponton with a shaped blade, like from Giffard's textbook. Although the painting itself is from 1839.
              1. Mihaylov
                Mihaylov 12 November 2020 12: 16
                +5
                Quote: Pane Kohanku
                Partisane

                It turns out that the word "protazan" itself is of German origin, and the word "esponton", as I understand it, came from the French language?
                Quote: Pane Kohanku
                1- non-commissioned officer halberd arr. 1731

                So the plaque in the museum read:

                But if you look at the drawing, it seems to me that it still looks more like
                3-Guards Non-commissioned Officer Halberd Model 1797
                1. Pane Kohanku
                  Pane Kohanku 12 November 2020 12: 21
                  +5
                  But if you look at the drawing, it seems to me that it still looks more like

                  but it seems to me, nevertheless, on the non-commissioned officer halberd arr. 1731. The two upper processes are shorter than the lower ones.
                  1. Mihaylov
                    Mihaylov 12 November 2020 12: 32
                    +4
                    Quote: Pane Kohanku
                    but it seems to me, nevertheless, on the non-commissioned officer halberd arr. 1731. The two upper processes are shorter than the lower ones.

                    Yes, perhaps shorter.
                    But for a better photo you will have to go to Priozersk again. laughing
                    Not in the subject, but it might be interesting, yesterday I came across this video:
                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_P_alWjTeM
                    Of course, he has almost no relation to history, but he got great pleasure from viewing, he is simply not indifferent to the Mediterranean landscapes. And the guys are great, I would like to go on such a business trip.
                  2. Lexus
                    Lexus 12 November 2020 17: 07
                    +5
                    Kolya hi,
                    yes you are, I would say, a pro on "cold". bully Until the notorious cornet appeared and vulgarized everything. And the esponton immediately acquired the shape of a strapon repeat
                    1. Pane Kohanku
                      Pane Kohanku 12 November 2020 17: 25
                      +4
                      Until the notorious cornet appeared and vulgarized everything.

                      Lesh, I have a vague feeling that if he had been given full free rein in his actions during an urgent one, he would have painted such a poster on our side that the hungweipings on the opposite bank of the Ussuri had a deep three-day swoon followed by severe frustration, and the Zaofank girls, overtaking each other, would have sailed to our shore on improvised watercraft, holding over their heads huge dazibao with slogans to take them, if not even as a wife, then at least as a cook ... fellow laughing
                      1. Lexus
                        Lexus 12 November 2020 17: 32
                        +3
                        The late grandmother told me about how one Soviet officer on the Kuril Islands in 1945 so qualitatively "loved" the Japanese woman that when they were all "sent home" she jumped from the barge to the OCEAN FOUR times and floated back until she "fixed". I am categorically FOR such a continuity of generations. So we are waiting for the unforgettable Greta to visit! fellow
          2. Catfish
            Catfish 12 November 2020 12: 25
            10
            Hi, Nikolai. hi
            ... the Prussian infantryman fired up to 5-6 shots per minute

            Something's gnawing at me. smile After all, you imagine the whole process of loading, so after all, you also need to aim somehow.

            In 1783, the Prussian Lieutenant General Count of Anhaltsky proudly wrote that during the exercises his infantrymen fired seven shots per minute and managed to reload their guns six times. (I never believe)
            The Prussian charter of 1779 required all infantry commanders to achieve a pace of four rounds per minute. Such a result was given only with ideally structured daily training and required large expenditures for gunpowder and bullets. Therefore, most of the European armies considered achieving a pace of two or three rounds per minute quite sufficient for victory.

            The Prussian infantry covers the retreat of their troops in the Battle of Kolinsky, 1757
            1. pmkemcity
              pmkemcity 12 November 2020 17: 11
              +2
              For the entire foreign campaign of 1813-14, the Russian army had 150 rounds for a gun. In the Battle of Borodino, the consumption of cartridges in the first line was 40-50 pieces, and shells per gun - 90.
              1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                Kote Pan Kokhanka 13 November 2020 13: 07
                0
                Quote: pmkemcity
                For the entire foreign campaign of 1813-14, the Russian army had 150 rounds for a gun. In the Battle of Borodino, the consumption of cartridges in the first line was 40-50 pieces, and shells per gun - 90.

                Valuable remark, but the Seven Years War and Napoleonics are two different eras!
                Foumchane for some reason substitute concepts or mix them up: a line, a rank, a half-tone are different categories. Who used different techniques of fire fighting. The charters of those years distinguish: a salvo (in a row, first line, halftone). All this is divided even by Tina units from the half-tonga (corporal) to the company and even the regiment. The same grayscale shooting assumed fire in turn, rather than in one gulp.
                Full halftone fire involved six ranks, which, after firing, would sit down and load the weapon while sitting.
                Ranged volley fire was fired from three lines.
                The Austrians and British fired a reverse one and a half. We and the French are ordinary. The Prussians practiced an ordinary half-tone and a volley in a line.
                The British used salvo firing with a change in position. When the third line came out on the first line and fired. Then - the second, and later the third. Then all over again.
                1. pmkemcity
                  pmkemcity 14 November 2020 05: 49
                  -1
                  Too lazy to write, but there is nothing to do, as people are mired in trifles and do not "look at the root."
                  1. The Prussians' infantry was like everyone else's.
                  2. The battles were won by the cavalry, which was undoubtedly the best.
                  3. And the most important thing. All this was due to the fact that the Prussian artillery was of poor quality. And if there is no quality, then why take it with you? So the Prussian army found itself without quantity, and the entire burden (not the glory that went to the cavalry) of the battle fell on the shoulders of the infantry. Such tactics led, as it is now fashionable to say, to an exhausting mess without decisive continuation - Frederick beat everyone, but did not defeat anyone. His highly professional army, and therefore very expensive, quickly melted away, just as quickly and without loss of quality it was impossible to restore it.
          3. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 12 November 2020 12: 47
            +4
            Try looking for Kulinsky's books.
  4. kalibr
    kalibr 12 November 2020 08: 00
    +2
    What good stuff! Bravo, Sergey!
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 12 November 2020 08: 13
      +8
      I just didn't like the ending. There is no completeness. Like the activity of a small child: he ran, ran, fell, fell asleep.
      1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 12 November 2020 11: 29
        +3
        Quote: 3x3zsave
        There is no completeness. Like the activity of a small child: he ran, ran, fell, fell asleep.

        is there) Muse left, promising to return?
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 12 November 2020 19: 12
          +2
          Did the muse leave, promising to return?
          Yeah, moreover, it would be better like Lindgren, and not like King. laughing
    2. Viktor Sergeev
      Viktor Sergeev 12 November 2020 08: 31
      -11 qualifying.
      Why bravo? The fact that the author forgot who and how he piled on Friedrich, even despite the betrayal of Apraksin? Compares the Prussians and the Austrians, about the Russians in passing, like Russia was all.
      1. kalibr
        kalibr 12 November 2020 08: 44
        12
        Victor, what is this manner of weaving Russia and Russians into everything? Why can't we separate one from the other? So we piled on Friedrich and how did it end? So let's move away from this hurray-patriotic rhetoric, who piled on whom. And it turns out that we piled on everyone, but for some reason we live worse than "piled up". I personally appreciate the information content of the article. Do you want to write how "pushed" on Friedrich? Write - I will be only "for"!
        1. Kwas
          Kwas 14 November 2020 08: 29
          +1
          Quote: kalibr
          And it turns out that we piled on everyone, but for some reason we live worse than "piled up".

          Well, you know, it's a completely different story. Colonies, for example, did not acquire on time.
          1. kalibr
            kalibr 14 November 2020 08: 30
            +1
            Quote: Kwas
            Colonies, for example, did not acquire on time.

            And Central Asia?
            1. Kwas
              Kwas 14 November 2020 09: 09
              0
              What happened was, BUT! Firstly, this is already the end of the empire (about 1870s), and secondly, it is extremely unpopulated (2-3 percent of the empire's population) and not rich (in fact, only cotton). Compare, for example, with India! Or it is possible with the Belgian Congo, the Spanish or Portuguese empire. And even better with the totality of European colonies, the benefits of which were somehow distributed throughout Western Europe.
  5. Daniil Konovalenko
    Daniil Konovalenko 12 November 2020 08: 00
    +7
    Let's just say: the Prussian infantry was the best in Europe under Frederick II .. The era of revolutionary wars began and the best infantry began to beat and beat brutally ..
    Py.sy..And that Samsonov's articles are already forbidden to comment on, or is it just me?
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 12 November 2020 09: 33
      +8
      Before that, the Swedes had the best infantry, and even earlier the Czechs. If you go deeper into the derby of the centuries - the battles of the Swiss, the landsknechts - the Germans, the Spanish thirds and further, further, further. The list can be expanded in the reverse order.
      According to Samsonov's articles, do not take it to heart! Searching for the truth is still useless.
      1. [comment-show]
        Daniil Konovalenko
        Daniil Konovalenko 12 November 2020 10: 41
        +8
        According to Samsonov's articles, do not take it to heart! Searching for the truth is still useless.
        ..Did you become untouchable along the way? laughing
        [/ comment-show] [comment-deleted]
        The comment was deleted.
        [/ comment-deleted]
  1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
    Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 12 November 2020 11: 44
    +4
    By the way, yes, there are no comments on the article about Crimea.
    I was moved by his clarification in brackets:
    After the defeat of the White Army (White Army)

    It is strange that he does not specify anywhere that the Red Army is the Red Army. laughing
  • Kwas
    Kwas 14 November 2020 08: 31
    0
    That's it, and even earlier with the Romans, and even earlier with the Macedonian, and even earlier with the Spartans ...
  • Double major
    Double major 12 November 2020 08: 17
    -4
    Prussians = Germanized Polabian Slavs. No wonder ...
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 12 November 2020 10: 31
      +5
      Quote: Twice Major
      Prussians = Germanized Polabian Slavs. No wonder ...

      This is what?
      1. Double major
        Double major 13 November 2020 12: 19
        +1
        So we always knew how to fight. Better than doing anything else.
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 13 November 2020 12: 41
          0
          Do we really salt cabbage and fry potatoes worse than anyone else?
  • Viktor Sergeev
    Viktor Sergeev 12 November 2020 08: 23
    -2
    The whole trouble of Frederick was that he foolishly went to war with Russia, "Europe" was not enough for him.
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 12 November 2020 09: 40
      +6
      Quote: Victor Sergeev
      The whole trouble of Frederick was that he foolishly went to war with Russia, "Europe" was not enough for him.

      Where did you get it from?
      Probably Russia, in order to its regional interests, decided to use Prussia. By the way, at that time the Rzeczpospolita was for a long time the arena of games of foreign kings, konfustov and rulers! The trouble was just not finished, although I suppose they did not give us this, but they could chop off something in the Baltic, and then exchange with the Swedes or the Poles.
      1. alexey sidykin
        alexey sidykin 1 December 2020 20: 15
        0
        And we chopped off Prussia, but then Petrusha 3 returned it for free
    2. Prometey
      Prometey 25 November 2020 14: 10
      +1
      Quote: Victor Sergeev
      The whole trouble of Frederick was that he foolishly went to war with Russia, "Europe" was not enough for him.

      Well, at least the encyclopedia would be read or something. Prussia did not declare war on Russia, if anything.
  • Lynx2000
    Lynx2000 12 November 2020 09: 35
    +2
    Frederick Wilhelm I, King of Prussia in 1713-40, "the soldier king".
    His son Frederick II aka Frederick the Great, nicknamed "Old Fritz", king from 1740

    It is surprising why the best army in Europe, the Swedish one, did not prevent the unification of the lands into the Prussian kingdom.
    The Swedish army of Gustav Adolphus and his predecessor "gave heat" during the Thirty Years' War.
    During the Fredericks, Sweden owned Bremen, Verdun, part of Pomerania and Wismar.
    At the beginning of the 18th century. under Sweden were Finland, Estland, Livonia, Ingermanland, plus Bremen, Pomerania and Wismar.

    What was the theater of military operations for the Prussian army? Even on a European scale it is small. Therefore, with proper preparation, the Prussians made quick transitions, deployed in battle formations, as they say, attacked on the move. The Swedes also did ...
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 12 November 2020 11: 07
      +7
      Let the enchantingness, the star of the Swedes rolled down near Poltava!
    2. Daniil Konovalenko
      Daniil Konovalenko 12 November 2020 11: 16
      +5
      It is surprising why the best army in Europe, the Swedish one, did not prevent the unification of the lands into the Prussian kingdom.
      .... Russia prevented. After the Poltava victory in 1709, the hostilities were transferred to Germany and, by and large, Peter I fought for German interests.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 12 November 2020 14: 14
        +3
        A little more complicated, Peter had an idea to stir up something serious from the Swedes in Europe, in order to change them on the lands closer. In fact, researchers distinguish seven stages of the Northern War after Poltava Victoria. The sixth and the seventh were not so hung !!!
        1. Daniil Konovalenko
          Daniil Konovalenko 12 November 2020 14: 18
          +4
          But the European lands conquered from the Swedes were never exchanged for anything .. If I'm not mistaken, some of the Baltic states had to be redeemed .. But it’s not the point .. And so a long war ..
  • Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
    Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 12 November 2020 10: 29
    +9
    At the same time, the king did not spare money for recruiting soldiers outside Prussia, but preferred local cadres.


    However, two-thirds of the FW 1 army were foreigners.
    At the same time, in terms of population, the country occupied only 13th place on the continent.

    The demography of FV 1 was simply corrected - it populated the areas mowed down by the plague with the Huguenots who fled from France.

    By the way, the author forgot to mention a couple of important points, since he linked economic reforms with military successes - Friedrich Wilhelm
    1) freed the serfs and abolished the hereditary lease of land that attached them to their landowners (1719!);
    2) replaced the natural quitrent with a direct cash tax on land - treasury revenues jumped by 250% (!);
    3) IMPORT SUBSTITUTION !!! No import. Stimulating domestic production. On the streets, women were undressed on suspicion that their toilets were sewn from contraband fabrics.
    4) created the institution of professional bureaucracy. Officials were recruited from the provinces to serve the crown, and not lobby for parochial interests.

    And the coolest thing is the army of F.V. 1 during his lifetime never fought.

    P.S. Along the way, the king loved beer, judging by the belly .....)))
    1. Daniil Konovalenko
      Daniil Konovalenko 12 November 2020 11: 20
      +5
      ..Love Frederick William I to go shopping, not subject to the discovery of imported goods ... smile
    2. Kwas
      Kwas 14 November 2020 08: 37
      0
      Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      3) IMPORT SUBSTITUTION !!! No import. Stimulating domestic production. On the streets, women were undressed on suspicion that their toilets were sewn from contraband fabrics.

      Here it is, the real "import substitution"! Who is in favor of entering with us?
    3. Kwas
      Kwas 14 November 2020 11: 26
      0
      Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      P.S. Along the way, the king loved beer, judging by the belly .....)))

      Well, it's actually not a belly, but a standard form of armor. laughing
      1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 14 November 2020 19: 33
        -2
        ... Well, it's actually not a belly, but a standard form of armor. laughing

        Too bad ... the beer version was beautiful laughing
  • Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
    Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 12 November 2020 11: 38
    +4
    Frederick II formulated a cynical and to this day sometimes used geopolitical maxim (after chopping off part of Silesia from Maria Theresa), which in a nutshell is as follows: "If you like someone else's territory, and you have eggs to take it - do it without delay. Then a crowd of lawyers will come and prove that you have all the rights to this territory. " Military strength and jurisprudence.
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 12 November 2020 19: 25
      +2
      Then a crowd of lawyers will come and prove that you have all rights to this territory.
      Actually, Don Corleone pedaled this topic, teaching his eldest son.
      1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 12 November 2020 19: 35
        -1
        Quote: 3x3zsave
        Then a crowd of lawyers will come and prove that you have all rights to this territory.
        Actually, Don Corleone pedaled this topic, teaching his eldest son.

        In general, the maxims of F.2 were given by those still))
        His pearl (after he started Seven Years) that "the attacker is not the one who fired the first shot, but the one who is plotting the attack on the neighbor and finds him in a threatening position" is generally a song. Logic - there is no aggressor. All wars are divided into defensive and preventive.
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 12 November 2020 19: 46
          +2
          Logic - there is no aggressor.
          Logic, of course, worthy of a "kid from the district" ... On the other hand, how else?
      2. Korsar4
        Korsar4 12 November 2020 20: 38
        +3
        Actually, people do something like this. It's just that everyone has different tools.
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 12 November 2020 20: 42
          +2
          Behavioral stereotype.
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 12 November 2020 20: 44
            +3
            More interesting are people who reject this stereotype.

            However, in most cases, "God does not give horns to a thirsty cow" (c).
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 12 November 2020 20: 49
              +2
              More interesting are people who reject this stereotype.
              For example?
              1. Korsar4
                Korsar4 12 November 2020 20: 58
                +2
                Saints, hermits, imperceptible silent righteous.
  • Lynx2000
    Lynx2000 12 November 2020 11: 49
    0
    Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Let the enchantingness, the star of the Swedes rolled down near Poltava!

    Quote: Daniil Konovalenko
    Russia interfered. After the Poltava victory in 1709, the fighting was moved to Germany and, by and large, Peter I fought for German interests.

    The Northern War, if I am not mistaken, ended in 1720.
    While Karl 12 on his .... flogged Russia to fight, the Swedish corps in Europe (northern Germany and the Baltic states) drove the Saxon elector (also the Polish king).
    And what was Frederick I doing at this time? I read somewhere that he was a cousin of the English king George 1st (or 2nd), from childhood when they played together, they hated each other. But to his son in the Seven Years War, England was an ally and sponsor.
    1. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 12 November 2020 13: 18
      +8
      But to his son in the Seven Years War, England was an ally and sponsor.

      England showed itself interestingly in the Seven Years War. While the main parties were busy with showdowns in Europe, she squeezed Canada from the French ... wink "whistled softly and left - called" found "..." laughing
  • Ryazan87
    Ryazan87 12 November 2020 12: 12
    11
    Good article, I put a plus with pleasure. Finally, about the 18th century and sensibly, not Samsonovism.
    There are, however, some remarks:
    Only Russian infantrymen could compete with her in courage, courage and steadfastness in battle.

    Well, why is this "uryakalka"? Normally, the same Austrians competed with her - Gochkirchen, Colin, Torgau, Maxen. They fought just fine, even with the devastating Lieuten.
    The main advantage of the Prussian infantry, which clearly distinguished it against the background of the infantry of other countries, was its unsurpassed rate of fire. The emphasis on firefighting at a distance has always been made and occupied a large place in the training of troops.

    Polemically, given the fact that most of the battles the Prussians fought from the attack. This really made an impression on the Russians; here, unfortunately, they often "economized" on fire training.
    Despite the use of flintlocks, thanks to better training and education, the Prussian infantryman fired up to 5-6 shots per minute.

    It is physically unrealistic to maintain such a rate of fire for more than 1-2 minutes. You can train "under the record", but in fact, in a real combat situation it can be more harmful - the flint in the gun of that time was designed for 20-25 shots. If only at the decisive moment to create a "flurry of fire" - for example, when repulsing a cavalry attack. Again, after a couple of years of war, there were few such trained soldiers in the ranks. The regular Russian army in 1914 also fired excellently with rifles, and a year later "over the heads of the enemy."
    The advantage of the Prussian army was the standardization of uniforms, weapons, ammunition, daggers and even belts.

    Standardization was actively borrowed from the French (in artillery they were simply a tuning fork, but not only there). What kind of standardized daggers are - not very clear.
    "The ability to move quickly and move consistently over virtually any terrain were important advantages of the Prussians. Rigorous drill in the mid-XNUMXth century meant a lot."
    here the author got to the point. This was the key advantage of the Prussian infantry. Although the cavalry also does not need to offend them - then only the Austrian could compete with it.
    1. alexey sidykin
      alexey sidykin 1 December 2020 20: 25
      0
      In addition to Yevgeny Savoysky, the Austrian army did not know any talented generals, only the lazy did not beat her
      1. Ryazan87
        Ryazan87 Today, 14: 30
        0
        Леопольд Даун - на секундочку дважды крупно разбил того самого Фридриха Великого. Гидеон Лаудон. Эрцгерцог Карл - вспомним Асперн, разбил Наполеона все-таки). Фельдмаршал Йозеф Радецкий... это так, навскидку.
        Австрийская армия в реальности гораздо выше своей репутации: что до крупных полевых сражений с французами, то я бы не сказал, что и русским очень везло на блестящие победы с этим противником.
  • Engineer
    Engineer 12 November 2020 12: 33
    +5
    The Prussian cavalry of that time has even more reason to be considered the best
  • Undecim
    Undecim 12 November 2020 13: 11
    12
    At the same time, Frederick the Great did not create the Prussian army from scratch. He largely took advantage of the fruits of the activities of his father, Frederick Wilhelm I, who began the process of seriously strengthening the Prussian army.
    And Frederick Wilhelm I did not start from scratch either. He took advantage of the fruits of the activities of his father Frederick I, who, in turn, took advantage of the fruits of the activities of his father, the Great Elector Frederick Wilhelm I of Brandenburg. From here it is necessary to begin the countdown of the creation of the Prussian army. And the history of Prussia is a very clear example of the continuity of politics from monarch to monarch, as a result of which a single German state was created, which still exists today.
    This contrasts very much with the history of the Russian Empire, where the change of the monarch was often accompanied by turns in foreign and domestic policy by 180 degrees.
    Apologists for the maxim that "the Russians always beat the Prussians" should take this moment into account, although for the average turbopatriot Sergeev, this is beyond perception.
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 12 November 2020 13: 53
      +8
      Apologists for the maxim that "the Russians always beat the Prussians" should take this moment into account, although for the average turbopatriot Sergeev, this is beyond perception.
      Wait, now the "old song about the main thing" about "kolyusurengoyu" will start.
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 12 November 2020 14: 00
        +7
        They don't scream mad people, don't sow, but give birth themselves.
        From the monument of medieval Russian literature "Prayer of Daniel the Zatochnik". It turns out that there were hamsters already at that time.
    2. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 12 November 2020 21: 27
      +2
      Apologists for the maxim that "the Russians always beat the Prussians" should take this moment into account, although for the average turbopatriot Sergeev, this is beyond perception.

      They just spoiled the branch from the very beginning with their emotional stupidity ... it could have been a gorgeous discussion, but it began with leavened ultrapatriotism ... with no knowledge. They gave me 4 minus just for the first comment. For what? .. the ways of patriots are inscrutable ...
      Sad, Viktor Nikolaevich. Highly. Really sad. Despite the fact that colleagues (with you, including) saved the forum, the impression from it was completely ruined.
  • Undecim
    Undecim 12 November 2020 13: 51
    +7
    The main positions not only in the military, but also in the civilian areas were entrusted in Prussia only to representatives of the nobility. At the same time, only generic nobles could become officers, representatives of the bourgeoisie were not accepted into the officer corps.
    Among other things, Frederick Wilhelm I forbade the Prussian nobility to serve in the armies of other states. In addition, unlike the Russian nobility with its "liberties", the Prussian nobles were obliged to serve.
  • Poppy
    Poppy 12 November 2020 16: 24
    0
    180 km in 7 days is 25 km a day, at Suvorov 40 miles a day with songs passed
    1. pmkemcity
      pmkemcity 12 November 2020 17: 19
      +1
      Quote: Poppy
      180 km in 7 days is 25 km a day, at Suvorov 40 miles a day with songs passed

      You can walk 50 km a day, but then you need a day of rest, and 25 km a day is 7-8 hours of march. Tomorrow another 25, the day after tomorrow another 25, and so on, until the boots are knocked down.
      1. Poppy
        Poppy 12 November 2020 17: 46
        -2
        the average speed of a pedestrian is 5 km / h, i.e. 25 km is 5 hours
        In 1769, Suvorov was appointed commander of a brigade of musketeer regiments and was sent to Poland to fight the Barskaya Confederation.

        in 30 days, the team covered 850 miles, and there were only six sick people on the way.
        During the Russian-Turkish war in 1789, Suvorov came to the rescue of the Austrian troops by walking with his detachment 40 miles in 26 hours.

        On the eve of the famous battle near the Rymnik River, Suvorov again came to the aid of the Austrian garrisons

        having covered 100 km in 2,5 days, he connected with them in full view of the enemy.

        During the Swiss campaign

        Russian troops covered 150 km from Alesandria to Taverno in six days.
        1. pmkemcity
          pmkemcity 13 November 2020 05: 29
          0
          Quote: Poppy
          the average speed of a pedestrian is 5 km / h, i.e. 25 km is 5 hours

          It is immediately clear that you are a "pedestrian" and did not go anywhere in the outhouse at the dacha.
        2. pmkemcity
          pmkemcity 14 November 2020 10: 59
          0
          Chapter 18.
          March regiment
          816. The speed of movement of the infantry on the march depends on the involvement of soldiers and commanders, the condition and topography of roads, the time of year, day and weather.

          The average speed of movement of the infantry during the day is 4 km per hour, with the lightening of the load of the soldiers - 5 km per hour.

          817. The daily passage of the regiment, depending on the task, can be normal - 7–8 hours of movement or forced - 10–12 hours of movement.

          The normal daily march of the regiment is 30 km, the forced daily march of the regiment is 40–45 km (with a halt of 4 hours).

          818. For saving forces and material part the following are appointed:

          - small halts - 10 minutes after 50 minutes of movement;

          - big breaks - 3 hours at the beginning of the second half of the trek;

          - daytime - after 3-4 days, with forced marches - after 2 days.
      2. Kwas
        Kwas 14 November 2020 08: 57
        0
        Quote: pmkemcity
        You can walk 50 km a day, but then you need a day of rest,

        In mountain hikes, tourists usually go for 1-2 weeks, with a backpack on their shoulders (20-30 kg) and in the mountains.
  • oleg Pesotsky
    oleg Pesotsky 12 November 2020 17: 54
    0
    Somehow, all this power somehow did not help Frederick in the seven-year war. The king was already intending to declare his abdication when Elizabeth suddenly died. I think it is not necessary to absolutize the power of the Prussian infantry. Although she was a serious opponent.
  • alexey sidykin
    alexey sidykin 1 December 2020 19: 54
    0
    This did not help Frederick, our army entered Berlin and chopped off Prussia.