Military Review

New Swedish submarines could change the balance of power in the Baltic

46

Home of the deadly boats


The National Interest's Sebastien Roblin believes that Sweden is home to the most efficient diesel-electric submarines today. These are low noise boats, equipped with modern powerful engines, cheap and deadly.




A bold statement, but with a pretty solid platform underneath. What are the arguments of Roblin (by the way, a very objective author) and why can you listen to them?

Perhaps an excursion into history... Traditionally, over the past decades, submarines have been of two types: diesel-electric, which had to surface every few days to recharge their batteries using diesel engines; and atomic ones, which could quietly buzz under water for several months without surfacing, thanks to their nuclear reactors.

The downside of the nuclear variety, of course, is that they cost many times more than similar diesel submarines and require a nuclear power plant, which may not be worth the hassle for a country interested only in protecting its coastal waters. Yes, a nuclear sub is not for second world countries. Few in the world can afford these ships. And, perhaps, this is true.


A diesel submarine can also run quietly. Even possibly quieter than a nuclear one (turning off its engines and running on batteries). It's only a matter of time. But for countries that do not have huge military budgets, the issue of building a nuclear submarine or 5-6 diesel submarines is not even worth it at all.

Multi-valued neutrality


So Sweden. A neutral country, as it were, but possessing quite a decent fleet... And submarines, which looks pretty normal, especially if you read Roblin.

“One such country was Sweden, which found itself in a busy area opposite Russian naval bases on the Baltic Sea. Although Sweden is not a NATO member, Moscow has made it clear that it can take action to "remove the threat," as Putin put it, if Stockholm decides to join or support the alliance. "

Well, what can you expect? The Swedes seem to be neutral. This is true. That in the last war did not stop them from supplying Germany with iron ore and forging the sword of the Wehrmacht and the Kriegsmarine in the truest sense of the word.

It is quite understandable that Putin's understanding of such "neutrality" may differ somewhat from Roblinsky's. And this is normal, if only because it is absolutely clear and understandable which side Sweden will be on in case of something.

Hordes of Russian boats


Moving on.

“After a Soviet Whiskey class submarine (Project 613 boats) ran aground just six miles from the Swedish naval base in 1981, Swedish ships opened fire on suspected Soviet submarines several times during the rest of 1980. -x years ".

Yes, the incident on October 27, 1981 off the coast of Sweden with the Soviet diesel-electric submarine C-363 caused a stir. The submarine of project 613 turned out to be lying on stones a few kilometers from the Swedish naval base Karlskrona.

It is clear that if they missed it once, then the second one could end very sadly. And the Russians who have lost their course may not be on stones, but in the side of some ship. Therefore, they fired at them in any shadow. Just in case.

The question is, who looks funnier - ours, stranded almost at the Swedish naval base, or the Swedes, who shuddered for thirty years from each splash?

We continue to study Roblin.

"More recently, Russia conducted a simulated nuclear attack on Sweden, and probably entered Swedish territorial waters with at least one submarine in 2014."

That's what I understand! This is the scope. "Exercises simulating a nuclear attack on Sweden" - it sounds like a song. Moreover, such a funeral Valhallian. For in this case, the one who will not have a “tomorrow” is the Swedes. Just because everything is so crowded with them ...

Well, about the penetration by "at least one submarine in 2014" - Zadornov and Zhvanetsky applaud from there. If you carefully study the composition of the Baltic Fleet, you can understand a very unpleasant thing: we (since 2012) have one submarine in its composition.

And the crew certainly has something to do besides "penetration into Swedish territorial waters." Simply because the materiel must be protected so that there is something to train the crews for those boats that are finally being built for the Baltic.

This is the policy and the historical background. In general, it turns out that we left the Swedes no choice but to build their own submarines to defend themselves against the hordes of Soviet and Russian boats.

Swedish answer


Back in the 1960s, Sweden began development of a modernized version of the Stirling engine, with a closed heat conversion cycle, first developed in 1818.

Generally, it was first used to power a car in the 1970s. And then the Swedish shipbuilding firm Kockums successfully adapted the Stirling engine for use on the Swedish Navy submarine A14 "Nacken" in 1988.

Since this unit burns diesel fuel using liquid oxygen stored in cryogenic tanks (without external air intake), a boat with such an engine can safely cruise underwater at low speeds for several weeks without the need to surface.

In the late 1990s, Kockums built three Gotland-class submarines, the first combat submarines designed with air-independent propulsion systems.


The Gotland became famous for sinking the American aircraft carrier Ronald Reagan during the 2005 military exercise. The US Navy leased the boat to serve as an adversary for the US Navy's surface ships. It turned out more than ...

I liked the idea of ​​a new type of boats, and others followed the Swedes. Stirling's technology was adopted by the Japanese and Chinese. And the Germans and the French developed the VNEU AIP based on fuel cells and steam turbines. More expensive, but more exhaust.

Sweden, meanwhile, converted its four vintage diesel-electric Västergötland submarines from the late 80s to use Stirling engines.

AIP re-equipment included cutting the submarines in two and increasing the hull length from forty-eight to sixty meters

Two of these submarines were renamed Södermanland and the other two were sold to Singapore.

The last Östergötland class boats, modernized according to the Södermanland project, have undergone an interesting modification in the cooling systems. Now these boats can work effectively not only in the cold waters of the Baltic or the North Sea, but also in the warmer waters of the southern seas.

But the life of any submarine, alas, is not so durable. Sweden intends to retire its Södermanland boats as soon as possible. Beginning in the 1990s, the Kockums danced around the concept for the next generation AIP submarine, designated the A26, to replace the Gotland class, but faced numerous setbacks.

The fjords are teeming with Russians


Stockholm canceled the purchase of the A-26 in 2014, and the matter was finally settled. And Russian submarines continued to appear in fjords and skerries, and something had to be done about it. The Swedes tried to get the drawings from the German company Thyssen-Krupp, and not in a very pretty way. But where are the Swedes, and where are the raider seizures and abductions? Did not work out.

And time passed. Kockums was acquired by the Swedish company Saab. Work resumed. And in June 2015, Swedish Defense Minister Stan Tolgfors announced that Stockholm would buy two A26 submarines at $ 959 million each.

By the way, inexpensive. Less than 20% of the cost of one American Virginia class nuclear submarine.

A26 also tried to find buyers overseas. At various times, the project was interested in Australia, India, the Netherlands, Norway and Poland, but so far without success (due to competition from French and German submarine manufacturers AIP).

Kockums claims the A26 is the next generation of submarines in terms of acoustic stealth (thanks to new "ghost" technology that includes sound-absorbing damping plates, flexible rubber mounts and equipment pads, a less reflective hull with a lower magnetic signature of the submarine) ... Presumably, the A26 hull will also be unusually resistant to underwater explosions.

Chin sail


The Swedish firm has presented a concept art depicting a submarine with a "chin" sail, X-shaped tail "fins" for greater maneuverability in the Baltic waters teeming with rocks.


The four Stirling engines are likely to allow for a higher sustained submarine cruising speed of 6 to 10 knots.

Kockums highlighted the modularity of the new designs, which should reduce the cost of developing specialized options, such as one configuration accommodating up to eighteen Tomahawk land-based cruise missiles in a vertical launch system. This feature may be to the taste of Poland, which would like to have submarines equipped with cruise missiles. Just in case (for defense against hordes of Russian submarines).

Another important feature is a special multifunctional portal for the deployment of underwater vehicles and swimmers, which is in great demand for modern submarines. Located between the torpedo tubes in the bow, the portal can also be used to launch the AUV-6 underwater drone. True, the AUV-6 can be launched from a 533 mm torpedo tube.

Kockums is currently offering orders for three different versions of the A-26. Submarines of the A-26 class may become the best non-nuclear submarines of our time.

Swedish Ocean Patrol


While designing the A-26, the Swedes created three different vehicles as part of the project.

The small A-26 should operate in the coastal waters of the Baltic and the North Sea (where the chances of survival for nuclear submarines are not so high).

Large A-26 is intended for operations in the oceanic zone of the same North Atlantic.

The third version of the submarine is an export version of the ocean submarine.

The large model, intended for the Swedish service, will have a length of 63 meters and a displacement of about 2 tons. The range of the submarine at a speed of 000 knots will be 10 nautical miles, the duration of the patrol is 6500 days. The submarine's crew should be 30-17 sailors.

Such a range unambiguously brings the boat to the ocean, which was previously inaccessible for the same "Gotlands", which could not participate in patrols of the Atlantic due to insufficient autonomy.

Another question - what, in general, did the Swedes forget under the surface of the Atlantic Ocean?

Small (or "pelagic") version - 51 meters long, surface displacement is in the region of 1000 tons. At a speed of 10 knots, the cruising range of a small submarine is 4000 nautical miles, the duration of the patrol is 20 days. The crew of the small A-26 consists of 17-26 people.

The boat is really interesting for the very difficult terrain of the Baltic.

It's time to start thinking


The armament (more precisely, its composition) has not yet been revealed. But even so, it is clear that it will be a combination of 533-mm and 400-mm torpedo tubes. Perhaps, like on the Gotlands, 4 x 533-mm and 2 x 400-mm, because from one 400-mm device, you can launch two anti-submarine torpedoes at once at two different targets with cable control.

The first two A26 are due to be completed between 2022 and 2024. And then it will be possible to assess whether they will be able to meet their operational parameters. Overall, advances in AIP submarines allow countries around the world to acquire capable short- and medium-range submarines at an affordable cost.

If the Swedes manage to realize their plans and get at the exit exactly the boats that Kockums are talking about, then this can greatly change the state of affairs in the Baltic.

A submarine capable of carrying cruise missiles is being watched with interest in Poland. The Netherlands are interested in boats of this level. Perhaps Norway.

And even if the Swedish A-26 does not become the best non-nuclear submarine today, it will be a good new generation submarine. With VNEU, which in Russia they could not create.

The appearance of such boats in the NATO camp (Netherlands, Norway, Poland) in the very near future will give rise to a very unpleasant set of problems for the Russian fleet in the Baltic. From detection problems to countermeasures.

Let me remind you that today the Baltic Fleet has one diesel-electric submarine, and the second is in the future.


It's time to start thinking, because the Swedes can get something very decent. Didn't it work before?
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  1. Lexus
    Lexus 12 November 2020 05: 43
    +6
    I can't call the A26 project a candidate for the role of the best NNS, but they are good for the Baltic.
    1. Grandfather
      Grandfather 12 November 2020 05: 52
      18
      New Swedish submarines could change the balance of power in the Baltic
      uh ... how? it is enough for them to have 2 boats to double our submarine fleet in the Baltic!
      1. Lexus
        Lexus 12 November 2020 05: 58
        +7
        I assumed that, for lack of anything better, after the Pacific Fleet's deliveries were closed, another 636 would be filed.
        1. Doccor18
          Doccor18 12 November 2020 06: 27
          14
          Quote: lexus
          I assumed that, for lack of anything better, after the Pacific Fleet's deliveries were closed, another 636 would be filed.

          Good morning hi
          636s can be "cut down" a dozen, only this is not even yesterday, but the day before yesterday of the non-nuclear submarine fleet.
          1. Lexus
            Lexus 12 November 2020 16: 25
            +6
            Alexander hi,
            and I'm talking about this, as long as I can remember myself. Than drive "uryakv" into a frenzy.
    2. tlauicol
      tlauicol 12 November 2020 07: 24
      0
      Quote: lexus
      I can't call the A26 project a candidate for the role of the best NNS, but they are good for the Baltic.

      the Japanese will be elephants in a china shop in the Baltic, the Germans are breaking down en masse, so ... For the ocean one thing (although Gotland and the Pacific Ocean did not blunder), but for the Baltic it is another. RBS15 is also difficult to call the best rocket in the world, but in this area it will plug any Onyx with Caliber in the belt
      1. Lexus
        Lexus 12 November 2020 16: 19
        +2
        Ivan hi,
        I'm talking about the "best NAPL" in general. And here the Japanese are making a very serious application. For some reason, the Germans were "too clever" with the boats for themselves. There is no particular "noise" about problems with export projects; moreover, there is an opportunity there to involve Koreans in joint work. The French are very powerfully "gaining momentum" in this direction, recently there was an article on VO, the developments are impressive. All three of these concepts are technically superior to the Swedish submarine. And already I would not sweep aside China - in terms of technology and production culture, they are progressing at an unimaginable pace. As for the Baltic, we speak "the same language". The rocket can be integrated any of the available
  2. Doccor18
    Doccor18 12 November 2020 06: 25
    +6
    will buy two A26 submarines for $ 959 million each.

    By the way, inexpensive. Less than 20% of the cost of one American Virginia class nuclear submarine.

    The author got something wrong here. Almost 1 yard for a submarine with VNEU is not inexpensive, it is very expensive! The latest version of the Japanese lithium one cost about 800 million, but it is 1,5-2 times larger.
    And Virginia is 2 times cheaper than Seawolf, which at one time pulled a maximum of 3,7 yards (lead ship).
    The appearance of such boats in the NATO camp (Netherlands, Norway, Poland) in the very near future will give rise to a very unpleasant set of problems for the Russian fleet in the Baltic. From detection problems to countermeasures.

    And here I completely agree with Roman. In the coming decades, the BF RF will face tasks that it will not be able to solve on its current base.
  3. Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx 12 November 2020 06: 52
    +9
    If the Swedes manage to realize their plans and get at the exit exactly the boats that Kockums are talking about, then this could dramatically change the state of affairs in the Baltic.

    Yes, in fact, the geographical position of the Baltic Sea does not give any chance for the advantage of the Russian Baltic Fleet:

    Three passages can be closed in an instant. And to fight Russia and NATO countries with fleets in the Baltic Sea is absurd. For the Russian Federation, coastal anti-ship missiles are relevant here. And you can shed tears only because of this:
    It's time to start thinking, because the Swedes can get something very decent.

    and Russia can't?
    PS
  4. New Year day
    New Year day 12 November 2020 07: 36
    +5
    ... With VNEU, which in Russia they could not create.

    Why? Didn't you have enough mind or money? Without an analysis of what happened, there is no solution to the problem in the future.
    I believe that the reason is in the general technological lag, since the same is in the automotive industry, aircraft industry, etc.
    Cadres decide everything, and without them there is no solution to problems.
    And where to get them, personnel?
    1. Lexus
      Lexus 12 November 2020 16: 29
      +3
      Sylvester hi,
      the question is not yet where to get it, but how to cut off the existing "anchors" that have gnawed into the "bottom".
    2. ZEMCH
      ZEMCH 13 November 2020 19: 30
      0
      Quote: Silvestr
      Why? Didn't you have enough mind or money? Without an analysis of what happened, there is no solution to the problem in the future.
      I believe that the reason is in the general technological lag, since the same is in the automotive industry, aircraft industry, etc.
      Cadres decide everything, and without them there is no solution to problems.
      And where to get them, personnel?

      The question is not much else, those VNEUs that do not suit us (low-speed), it remains to come up with other options))) And so, our submarines with VNEU "ran" back in the 60s, but they were called "Lighters", I think it is clear why wink
  5. SVD68
    SVD68 12 November 2020 08: 17
    -9
    The Americans are actively promoting Swedish submarines. But they themselves do not build and do not even think to build. Hence the conclusion: this is an information sabotage designed to weaken the fleets of countries that have bought into this PR.
    1. Doccor18
      Doccor18 12 November 2020 08: 59
      12
      Quote: SVD68
      The Americans are actively promoting Swedish submarines. But they themselves do not build and do not even think to build. Hence the conclusion: this is an information sabotage designed to weaken the fleets of countries that have bought into this PR.

      Americans don't need them. Just because they are not needed.
      There is an ocean between the USA and the World. Imagine how many non-nuclear submarines with VNEU will economically go to the coast of Britain ... The crew will run out of provisions, and there is still a combat task ahead ...
      Non-submarines are good for closed theaters, shallow waters .. The Americans themselves could lay a series of such boats, but why? They do not fit into US doctrine, and if they are needed, that is, for this, NATO allies, who have more and more of these boats.
      1. SVD68
        SVD68 12 November 2020 12: 54
        -9
        Quote: Doccor18
        Americans don't need them. Just because they are not needed.

        Exactly. The Americans do not need them, but the Americans praise them with might and main. Isn't it strange?
      2. The eye of the crying
        The eye of the crying 12 November 2020 15: 04
        0
        Quote: Doccor18
        Imagine how many submarines with VNEU will be an economic move to go to the coast of Britain ...


        Well, actually: "the cruising range of a small submarine is 4000 nautical miles, the duration of the patrol is 20 days." So even a small submarine can cross the Atlantic and back.
        1. georg 2
          georg 2 16 November 2020 23: 05
          0
          Well, actually: "the cruising range of a small submarine is 4000 nautical miles, the duration of the patrol is 20 days." So even a small submarine can cross the Atlantic and back.

          Can not. From Gibraltar to Cuba, the surface crossing of the DPL pr.641B with an 8-10 nodal speed under diesel engines takes about a month. This boat will not make it to the other side without proper restocking. Well, the waves. For such a small DPL, only good weather and a little excitement, the Atlantic is not for her. The experience of the Argentine DPL "San Juan" confirms this. And only 250 miles from the coast. "Submarine San Juan could not go on the surface, as a strong storm was raging overhead with 6-8-meter waves. The boat was forced to submerge, and no more news came from it."
          1. The eye of the crying
            The eye of the crying 16 November 2020 23: 15
            0
            Quote: georg 2
            Can not.


            As you say.

            Quote: georg 2
            The experience of the Argentine DPL "San Juan" confirms this.


            Yes, that proves everything. Everyone knows that there is no PL better than San Juan.
    2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 12 November 2020 09: 28
      16
      Quote: SVD68
      But they themselves do not build and do not even think to build. Hence the conclusion: this is an information sabotage

      Hence the input - we learn the materiel, which says that the US Navy and the Swedish Navy have "slightly" so different tasks. And the tasks of the US Navy cannot be solved by diesel-electric submarines, incl. and with VNEU for objective reasons.
      The Swedish submarine was successful in attacking the US AUG. Against which AUG should the Americans build diesel-electric submarines?
      1. SVD68
        SVD68 12 November 2020 12: 58
        -1
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        The Swedish submarine was successful in attacking the US AUG.

        Yeah, just according to the rules of the teachings, the AUG had to wander in a certain square. Naturally, she ran into a Swedish boat.

        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        Hence the input - we learn the materiel, which says that the US Navy and the Swedish Navy have "slightly" so different tasks. And the tasks of the US Navy cannot be solved by diesel-electric submarines, incl. and with VNEU for objective reasons.

        Why then are they promoting this boat like that? Is it because they want others to build? And drowned their AUG?
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          Andrei from Chelyabinsk 12 November 2020 13: 33
          +5
          Quote: SVD68
          Yeah, just according to the rules of the teachings, the AUG had to wander in a certain square. Naturally, she ran into a Swedish boat.

          In fact, this situation has a very real practical application. AUG is located off the coast of the enemy and hollows him with planes on an ongoing basis (as was the case during the Storm in the Glass), and it is attacked by an enemy diesel-electric submarine ... for the Americans, the scenario is quite realistic, there are many who have diesel-electric submarines, many people can also hammer the US , so there is a chance to run into it. Let us recall, by the way, that the Argentine diesel-electric submarine attacked the ships of the KVMF near the Falklands three times, and the fleet sharpened for anti-submarine operations (and the British were going to fight against our submarines) did nothing to it.
          Quote: SVD68
          Why then are they promoting this boat like that?

          How - so? :)))))) In my opinion, Gotland is being promoted in Runet, not in the West. And there seems to be a completely balanced assessment and understanding that this is a threat that you need to be able to resist. But only.
          1. SVD68
            SVD68 12 November 2020 14: 24
            -4
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            In fact, this situation has a very real practical application. AUG is located off the enemy's coast and hollows him with planes on a permanent basis (as it was during the Storm in Glass), and it is attacked by an enemy diesel-electric submarine.

            There's no need for a Stirling engine.

            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            How - so? :))))))

            Like this:
            "Sweden (Yes, Sweden) Makes Some of the World's Best Submarines"
            1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              Andrei from Chelyabinsk 12 November 2020 14: 35
              +8
              Quote: SVD68
              There's no need for a Stirling engine.

              Very much to what, without Stirling, the combat radius falls below the baseboard
              Quote: SVD68
              "Sweden (Yes, Sweden) Makes Some of the World's Best Submarines"

              This is nationalinterest - an ordinary information wash, the fiefdom of the Majumdars and the like. It would be possible to talk about PR in the presence of American officialdom
              1. SVD68
                SVD68 12 November 2020 14: 40
                -2
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                Very much to what, without Stirling, the combat radius falls below the baseboard

                The larger the radius, the less likely the AUG will go to the submarine. And the Swedish submarine will not be able to catch up with the AUG.

                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                This is nationalinterest - an ordinary information wash, the fiefdom of the Majumdars and the like. It would be possible to talk about PR in the presence of American officialdom

                What are we discussing now? Isn't that the idea thrown by this information bin?
                1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                  Andrei from Chelyabinsk 12 November 2020 15: 11
                  +3
                  Quote: SVD68
                  The larger the radius, the less likely the AUG will go to the submarine.

                  There is something else. During the Storm in Glass, American AUGs maneuvered in specific areas, and it was assumed that the combination of escort ships (including nuclear submarines) and PLO aircraft / helicopters would guarantee their safety. Diesel-electric submarines can simply go into the area and attack. But nevertheless, AUG operate at a certain distance from the coast, so it is difficult to reach "on batteries", while maintaining a sufficient charge for combat and retreat.
                  Quote: SVD68
                  What are we discussing now? Isn't that the idea thrown by this information bin?

                  I have nothing against discussing "information-washing" ideas :) I am only against giving such ideas the status of official US PR :)
                  1. Aag
                    Aag 12 November 2020 17: 29
                    +3
                    "... I have nothing against discussing" info-washing "ideas :) ..."
                    For example :))) "" The advanced technical idea of ​​the development of the fleet is ahead of what our potential adversaries have. Therefore, Russian submarines are the best, "Leonkov added in conclusion."
                    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 20 November 2020 06: 06
                      +1
                      Quote: AAG
                      connected Leonkov in conclusion.

                      Good example:)))))
      2. Vale-90
        Vale-90 19 November 2020 19: 47
        -1
        And the Germans are not bad.
        Even under the USSR, there was often nothing to take. Posted by shoehanger.
        Slyly-clever German Germans were a lot for different tricks ..))) With regards to magnetometry.
        "This is a typical situation with a German project 206 submarine. Imagine a submarine on the surface, its three sides are surrounded by our anti-submarine ships, helicopters are hanging above it, and one or two Be-12 aircraft are higher above it. The German submarine goes under water according to its plan , and within half an hour it was lost by all the forces of the Baltic Fleet concentrated around it! The German submariners combined tactics with the use of both active and passive interference, they did it very skillfully.
        By the way, I remember such an episode. We see a boat that has just surfaced under us. Two non-commissioned officers emerge from the wheelhouse, diverge to the bow and stern, install something like antennas - and the boat becomes completely invisible to our magnetometric and radio equipment. Although here it is, visually - in full view! "
  6. Toucan
    Toucan 12 November 2020 09: 15
    +2
    today Sweden is home to the most efficient diesel-electric submarines.

    To be fair, German and Japanese boats are pretty good too.
    1. Avior
      Avior 12 November 2020 23: 41
      +1
      And French
  7. Sailor
    Sailor 12 November 2020 10: 36
    +3
    But what can I say, in the technologies for the fleet we are outsiders, both surface and underwater (even pr.885M and pr.955A can somehow compete with Western models). And there is no firm hand that would follow the developments and keep the industry as a whole in good shape.
    1. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 19 November 2020 20: 42
      +2
      And our top management is not interested in the fleet, and our admirals, if I may say so, do not seek to convince him otherwise. The fleet is considered as a kind of indispensable accessory for serious people, like the tough kid in the 90s had a TT and a crimson jacket. And if the leadership, then most adequately, was able to demand what kind of Air Force, Special Operations Forces, Strategic Missile Forces and Ground Forces of Russia they want to see (Ne need to blunt comrade Tupolev. And there is even a certain logic here too - proceeding from an awareness of the real state of affairs.
      Everything is aggravated by the fact that nowadays admirals, when they were in droplets sitting on de-energized ships and doing the devil knows what, are now in charge of their own land thinking, are not even close to real combat work.
      1. Sailor
        Sailor 20 November 2020 12: 20
        +1
        I subscribe to each letter of your comment, you describe very accurately the situation with the Navy and the country as a whole.
  8. Jacket in stock
    Jacket in stock 12 November 2020 10: 51
    +2
    The supply of liquid oxygen on board is not the most pleasant cargo. When I read about this, I shudder.
    IMHO yapi with batteries go the right way. Maybe it's just not necessarily lithium, because there is also an alternative.
    It seems that even in our laboratories there are developments. It is necessary to work, to finish.

    On the other hand, what prevents this oxygen from being put into the diesel generator, which is still on board?
    1. The eye of the crying
      The eye of the crying 12 November 2020 15: 07
      +2
      Quote: Jacket in stock
      what prevents this oxygen from being put into the diesel generator, which is still on board?


      Diesel engine noise.
    2. Avior
      Avior 12 November 2020 23: 40
      +3
      correct, but very expensive
      And as for oxygen in diesel, diesel is very noisy, and it has exhaust gases that have nowhere to go.
      1. Jacket in stock
        Jacket in stock 13 November 2020 06: 00
        0
        Quote: Avior
        correct, but very expensive

        Well, here we have already compared, the Swedish is even more expensive than the Japanese.
        1. Avior
          Avior 13 November 2020 06: 28
          +1
          I do not know how they compared, but the Japanese did it on the basis of the Swedish ones in two versions - with VNEU and batteries.
          The battery version is much more expensive.
    3. Pushkowed
      Pushkowed 13 November 2020 12: 27
      +1
      what prevents this oxygen from being put into the diesel generator, which is still on board
      It interferes with the fact that diesel is an internal combustion heat engine, and Stirging is an external one. In a diesel engine under water, the exhaust gases will enter the compartments through the gaps between the moving parts (this is a feature of internal combustion engines, according to which they are "internal"). And it is impossible to ventilate the compartments through the RDP, otherwise all "air independence" will go to dust. And in Stirling - the combustion chamber is hermetically sealed from the compartments (like all pipelines for fuel, oxygen and exhaust gases), heat energy is transferred to the heat engine through a heat exchanger, and gases are immediately removed overboard, their ingress into the compartments is excluded.

      We tried to supply oxygen directly to a diesel engine. The result is the A615 project (the famous "lighters").
      We tried more fierce options. Projects 626, 635, 643 and 647 provided for the operation of a diesel engine according to the so-called. "Chudakov's cycle", when instead of oxygen, steam gas is supplied (the product of the decomposition of hydrogen peroxide). Fortunately, none of them were built in metal.
  9. the Saint
    the Saint 12 November 2020 10: 56
    -2
    The find of the Swedish research company Marin Matteknik (MMT) off the island of Gotland turned out to be a Soviet medium diesel-electric submarine of the 613 Whiskey series. Length 76.6 m, width 6.64 m, crew of 52 people.
    The MMT does not exclude that this submarine is a submarine, which was attacked in April 1981 by the Swedish destroyer Halland while the Swedish Navy was hunting for unknown underwater objects. As then the Swedes believed that it was the Soviet submarines that violated their borders. They became confident in their assumptions when, near the Swedish naval base in Karlskrona in October 1981, a Soviet submarine S-363 of the same series hit the rocks. Moscow then stated that the incident was related to the breakdown of navigation devices.

    And if the Swedish destroyer Halland really sank the found Soviet submarine in peacetime, it becomes clear that the Swedish Navy does not want to investigate.
  10. iouris
    iouris 12 November 2020 16: 59
    -1
    Scary, of course. But what do these submarines mean without Sweden (and without Denmark).
  11. Growlers
    Growlers 12 November 2020 18: 10
    +2
    It was cramped in the Baltic during World War II ..... but now I don't even know ...... By and large, what is the Black Sea, that the Baltic Sea is a rather specific theater of operations, but where exactly the hordes of submarines have nothing to do
  12. Pushkowed
    Pushkowed 13 November 2020 12: 07
    +2
    Chin sail
    Oh, how many times already ...
    Well, where are you submarines maybe sail?
    Sail is a fencing of retractable devices (in common parlance - "cabin").
  13. Nikolay Vladimirovich
    Nikolay Vladimirovich 17 November 2020 17: 59
    0
    Neither the Swedes nor Sweden have been of any interest to Russia since the end of the Second World War. Everything else is Swedish paranoia. Or PR moves by their military-industrial complex to receive orders.
    1. Vale-90
      Vale-90 19 November 2020 19: 42
      -1
      I applaud.
      For Russia, nothing is of interest, neither Georgia, nor Ukraine, nor Syria, nor Armenia .... They are fighting there by themselves.
  14. Vladimir Vlasov
    Vladimir Vlasov 21 November 2020 09: 40
    0
    In a conflict, the Swedes will clearly be on the side of the enemy. Therefore, it is necessary to make a large number of small submarines with a crew of two and accompanied by several submarine drones. Powered by a small nuclear reactor. With at least one medium-range, or short-range missile on each vehicle, for the EU. And building huge submarines is irrational for use against the EU, they are easy to disable. And at the same time they are super-expensive.