Military Review

"Game of Thrones" in the Ottoman Empire. Fatih's law in action and the emergence of cafes

277

Execution of Shehzade Mustafa by order of his father, Sultan Suleiman the Magnificent. Frame from the series "The Magnificent Century"


In the last article, we started the story about the "Law of Fatih" (Sultan Mehmed II / Mehmed II), which allowed the son of a deceased ruler who came to power to kill his brothers "for the public good" (Nizam-I Alem). Thus, Mehmed II, who himself, upon accession to the throne, ordered the assassination of his three-month-old brother, hoped to avoid new unrest and internecine wars that threaten the very existence of the Ottoman state. In the above article "Game of Thrones" in the Ottoman Empire. Fatih law it was told about the struggle for power of the sons of Mehmed the Conqueror himself and about Selim Yavuz ("Cruel"), who ordered to kill all men of his kind. Now we will continue our story and first talk about Suleiman the Magnificent, Kanunî and the fate of his sons.

The mortal combat of the children of Suleiman I Qanuni


At the time of the death of Selim I (Selim I), he had only one son (out of five born) and therefore his accession to the throne was peaceful and passed without incidents. It was Suleiman I (Suleiman the First), who in the Ottoman tradition bears the nickname Kanunî ("The Lawgiver"), and in Europe he was called Magnificent - "Magnificent".


Melchior Lorck. Portrait of sultan Suleyman the Magnificent

В stories Ottoman Empire (the Ottoman Empire) it was an amazing time when the galley slave Giovanni Dionigi Galeni from the Calabrian village of Le Castella turned into Uluj Ali - the Ottoman admiral and beylerbei of Algeria, the hero of the battle at Lepanto (the Battle of Lepanto), to whom Sultan Selim II bestowed the title of Kılıç Ali Paşa - "Sword".

A rootless boy, found in Hungary in a ditch after the Battle of Mohacs, goes down in history under the loud and formidable name Piyale Pasha, became the commander fleet Ottoman Empire, the second vizier and husband of the granddaughter of Sultan Suleiman I (daughter of the future Sultan Selim II).

A guy from a Greek peasant family suddenly turned out to be a formidable kapudan-pasha Turgut-reis. And a native of a Sephardic family, evacuated from Andalusia under Bayezid II, terrified the Christian shores of the Mediterranean as Sinan Pasha, the Great Jew from Smyrna.

Suleiman I can by no means be called an overly kind and kind-hearted person: such a person simply would not have stayed on the Ottoman throne. But in comparison with his father, he seemed to be a model of humanism, and the Europeans in Constantinople spoke of him:

"This is the meek lamb who inherited the kingdom of the formidable lion."

But the successors of Suleiman I could not do without a "fight". This sultan had 5 sons. Two of them died of smallpox in 1521 - the eldest son Mahmud, who was 9 years old, and 8-year-old Murad. Popular among the people, Shehzade Mustafa was accused of trying to organize a conspiracy against his father and was executed in 1553 at the age of 38. At the same time, the seven-year-old son of this shehzade, Mehmed, the grandson of the Sultan was strangled (recall that, in comparison with Selim I, Suleiman was considered a “meek lamb”).

Soon after Mustafa's execution, his younger brother Jihangir died - according to the official version, from longing for his brother. Another son of Suleiman, Mehmed, died in 1543. The remaining two sons - Selim (the ruler of the Sanjak Amasya) and Bayazid (the ruler of Konya) began the war during the life of their father - in 1559.

"Game of Thrones" in the Ottoman Empire. Fatih's law in action and the emergence of cafes

Two shehzade - Selim and Bayazid in the series "The Magnificent Century"

Sultan Suleiman sent imperial troops to help Selim, Bayazid's army was defeated, Shehzadeh himself fled to Iran, but was handed over to his homeland. Together with Bayazid, five of his sons were also executed.

The Ottoman throne went to Selim II (known under the nicknames "Blond" and "Drunkard"), the son of Khyurrem Sultan, the femme fatale of the Ottoman Empire, better known as Roksolana.


Sultan Selim II

Remembering his war with his brother, Selim II sent only his eldest son Murad to sanjak, who was destined to become the new sultan. He will repeat the experience of his father, and his son Mehmed III will completely abandon the practice of sending his sons to the provinces, thus becoming the last sultan to receive managerial and military experience even before accession to the throne. But we got ahead of ourselves.

Selim II became the first sultan who did not participate in any military campaign, and ruled for only 8 years. However, during this time, Cyprus, Tunisia and Yemen were annexed to the Ottoman Empire. But there were also failures. In 1569, the Turkish-Tatar army was defeated near Astrakhan (it was then that the Ottomans tried to dig a channel between the Don and the Volga). And in 1571 the Ottoman fleet was defeated in the famous battle of Lepanto.

Selim II died in 1574 as a result of traumatic brain injury - after slipping on the marble step of the hamam.

The largest sultan of the Ottoman Empire


After the death of Selim II, his son Murad III ascended the Ottoman throne, who immediately, in accordance with the law of Fatih, ordered to strangle the other sons of Selim - five people.


Murad III, portrait, Scottish National Art Gallery

His mother was a Venetian named Nurganu, and I must say that she had a great influence on the formation of the personality and character of this sultan. In the future, Nurganu competed with another European woman, the Greek woman Safiye, Murad's beloved wife, for influence on her son. They say that, trying to switch her son to other passions, Nurganu was so actively buying concubines for his harem that the prices for girls in the markets of Constantinople increased 10 times. As a result, Murad III went down in history as the largest sultan of the Ottoman Empire. According to some reports, he had 130 children, including 25 sons.

This sultan, according to the assurances of his biographers, had many talents - he was a good calligrapher, wrote poems and treatises on various currents of Sufism, was interested in astronomy, history and geography, made watches, and was fond of fencing. But, like his father, he was absolutely indifferent to military affairs and did not participate in military campaigns. However, the inertia of the development of the Ottoman state was such that the empire continued to expand: Morocco and some territories previously under the control of the Persian shahs were annexed, Ottoman troops seized Tiflis and reached the lands of modern Azerbaijan. As a result, it was under Murad III that the size of the Ottoman Empire reached its maximum, amounting to 19 square kilometers.

The sultan who killed 19 brothers


As we remember, Murad III was a father of many children, and therefore his successor, Mehmed III, set a record during his accession to the throne: in one day, January 28, 1595, he executed 19 brothers. They said that, listening to the pleas of one of the younger brothers, Mehmed tore out a piece of his beard “out of grief,” but did not change his decision. Also, by his order, several pregnant concubines of his father were drowned in the Sea of ​​Marmara. Later, this sultan also executed his son Mahmud, who was suspected of conspiracy.


Portrait of Mehmed III, painting by Crispijn the Passe

Mehmed III, unlike his grandfather and father, personally took part in military campaigns, and although he did not achieve much success, he also had victories. The biggest and most unusual battle of this sultan was the Battle of Kerestets (October 24-26, 1596), which went down in Turkish history under the strange and even funny name "The Battle of Pots and Ladles". The fact is that when the allied troops of the Catholic states (detachments from Austria, Transylvania, Spain, Poland) had almost overturned the Ottoman army, carried away by the robbery of an enemy convoy, Christian soldiers were suddenly attacked and put to flight by somehow armed Turkish grooms, camel drivers , cooks and ancillary workers. A counterattack of the regular Ottoman units that had come to their senses completed the rout. This victory had no strategic significance.

Fearing revolts, Mehmed III stopped sending his sons to rule the provinces (where they were gaining administrative and military experience). When, after 8 years of reigning the empire, this sultan suddenly died, his son Ahmed, who at that time was only 13 years old, was elevated to the throne.


Sultan Ahmed I in his youth

And this is how Ahmed I and his beloved wife Kosem-Sultan saw the audience of the series “The Magnificent Century. Empire Kyosem ":


Ahmed was lucky: he was the third son and his chances for the throne were slim. However, the first son of Mehmed III, Selim, died of scarlet fever, and the second (Mahmud), as we remember, was executed on charges of treason.

Ahmed I lost the wars with Persia and Austria, but was popular among the people, because in 1606 he personally took part in extinguishing a large fire in Constantinople, receiving several serious burns. And during his time, the capital was decorated with the famous Blue Mosque.

Çifte Kasırlar gold cells


Ahmed I became the first sultan to refuse to kill his brother Mustafa. Instead, he was placed in the Shimshirlik two-story stone house on the territory of the Top-kapa palace complex. Then, a house called Çifte Kasırlar (“double pavilion”), which had 12 rooms, was used as a “gilded prison” for the shehzadeh, in which one of the sultan's brothers could live.


Topkapi, engraving 1654


Çifte Kasırlar, the prison of the Sultan's brothers in Top-kapa, contemporary photography

These rooms are called "kefes" or "cafe" (literal translation - "cage"). After Sultan Ahmed I, keeping "superfluous" shehzade in cafes became a tradition. And Turkish sources claim that many of these captives went crazy, or became alcoholics and drug addicts.

As an example, we can cite the fate of Ahmed's brother Mustafa (the future sultan), who had mental problems from childhood, which were significantly aggravated after 14 years of isolation in a "cafe". As a result, Mustafa's first reign lasted only 97 days. He was removed from power, and his 14-year-old nephew, the son of Ahmed Osman II (Gench Osman - "Young"), became the new sultan, who ordered the execution of his brother, Shehzade Mehmed. It happened in April 1621 - before the unsuccessful campaign against Khotin. So the appearance of cafes did not guarantee the life of unlucky princes.

The fate of Osman II



Sultan osman ii

It is said that before his death, Mehmed cursed Osman II. And the revolt of the janissaries is associated with the curse, as a result of which this sultan was killed. In fact, the reason was the defeat in the Khotyn battle (lasted from September 2 to October 9, 1621), in which the Turks lost about 40 thousand people, and their opponents (the Poles of Jan Chodkevich and the Cossacks of Peter Sagaidachny) - only 14 thousand. Osman II blamed the failure of the janissaries, whose corps tried to reform. This attempt ended with the assassination of the Sultan. It is said that 18-year-old Osman strangled the first murderers sent to him in the prison cell of Edikul Castle himself - with his bare hands. But he could no longer cope with the famous metropolitan wrestler Pahlavan. The janissaries again elevated the mad Mustafa to the Ottoman throne, who loved to present gold coins to fish in the palace pond (and sometimes benefited sea fish by throwing money into the waters of the Bosphorus).


Mustafa I, sultan der Turkei, Austrian National Library

His second reign lasted about a year, after which he ceded the throne to another nephew - Murad IV, on whose orders, as many believe, he was later poisoned.

Strongman on the Ottoman throne



Murad IV, sultan der Turkei, Austrian National Library

All sources emphasize the enormous physical strength of Murad IV. It is alleged that during the siege of Baghdad, he single-handedly loaded the cannons, the nuclei of which weighed 60 kg. The Sultan's club weighed 200 kg, and only two people could hardly pull the string around his bow. But this strong man was very afraid of new rebellions, which could be expected from the Janissaries, Sipahs, members of all kinds of religious sects and Sufi orders. Since the traditional gathering places for the conspirators were the capital's coffee houses and hookahs, he banned coffee and tobacco altogether. It was also forbidden to walk the streets without a lantern after the night prayer. For almost any offense, the punishment was one - death. So, in the winter of 1634, seeing the road not cleared of snow, Murad ordered to execute first the judge of Iznik province, and then Sheikh-ul-Islam (“Elder of Islam”) of the empire, Ahizade Hussein Effendi, who dared to condemn this decision. In the entire history of the Ottoman state, he became the only main mufti of the country executed by the Sultan. Under Murad IV, Baghdad and Yerevan were conquered, and on the outskirts of the Russian state the Don Cossacks heroically defended the Azov ("Azov seat" 1637-1642).

Banal drunkenness ruined this hero - at the age of 28 he died of cirrhosis of the liver.

In the next article we will continue our story and talk about the latest victims of the Fatih law.


Kasper Leuken. Deposition of Sultan Mehmed IV
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"Game of Thrones" in the Ottoman Empire. Fatih law
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  1. tlauicol
    tlauicol 11 November 2020 05: 47
    10
    It would be interesting to trace the purity of the blood of the Turkish sultans, following the example of the Russian tsars. How many% of the Turks are there? Wives: Italian, Greek, Armenian, Slav, Jewish, Arab, Persian, etc. Bed multiculturalism is an ancient phenomenon wink
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 11 November 2020 06: 12
      14
      The main thing is still the socio-cultural environment of the harems, where the raging sultans were brought up! The influence of mothers, wives, concubines, various grooms and clergymen created that atmosphere in such terrariums !!!
      However, the opposition of Eastern and Western customs is deliberately flawed and not productive!
      So it is still controversial where the issue of power was resolved "more humanely" on the papal throne in the time of the Borgia, or on the banks of the Bosporus!
      One Medici was worth what for France! And our "civil war" in the era of Vasily the Dark has no less "dark, pardon the tautology" spots!
      Only the theater with Shemyaka's belt is worth a separate discussion on the issue of women's influence on state affairs!
      And separately, thanks to Valery for continuing the cycle !!!
      1. Proxima
        Proxima 11 November 2020 07: 53
        -1
        The author would not hurt to tighten up the geography, quote from the article: “As a result, it was under Murad III that the size of the Ottoman Empire reached its maximum, reaching 19 square kilometers.” The above area is more than two US territories (with Alaska, of course). Naturally such a vast territory fellow the Ottomans never had and could not have. hi
        1. VLR
          11 November 2020 08: 34
          +9
          About the size of the Ottoman Empire: I checked everything is correct, the maximum size of the territory with vassals (like Crimea) is 19 square kilometers, more than the territory of the Russian Empire. The list of all possessions in 902 is three pages long, which is confusing and incomprehensible.

          1. Liam
            Liam 11 November 2020 08: 46
            +3
            Quote: VlR
            About the size of the Ottoman Empire: I checked everything is correct, the maximum size of the territory with vassals (like Crimea) is 19 square kilometers, more than the territory of the Russian Empire. The list of all possessions in 902 is three pages long, which is confusing and incomprehensible.


            Wikipedia disagrees with you.
            Area
            5,2 million [4] [5] km² (1683).Your card refers specifically to 1683
          2. Proxima
            Proxima 11 November 2020 09: 17
            +2
            Yes, I understand everything, as well as the fact that in the map you have provided, the area is depicted in the region of 4 million square kilometers, but not nearly 20! Please give me the source where this nonsense is written. hi
          3. Undecim
            Undecim 11 November 2020 11: 33
            +9
            About the size of the Ottoman Empire: checked,
            You cannot name the source of the "check". Because the "official history" gives different numbers.
            Ottoman Empire Square
            1451 km 690 (000 sq mi)
            1521 3 km 400 (000 sq mi)
            1683 5 km 200 (000 sq mi)
            1844 2 km 938 (365 sq mi)
      2. Lexus
        Lexus 12 November 2020 03: 26
        +4
        They wouldn't have pulled me out of the harem with a lace, or smoked phosgene.repeat
    2. VLR
      11 November 2020 07: 48
      12
      Some historian remarked: "Turks were not born, they became Turks."
      Russians, by the way, too: 10 years (sometimes more or less) a person lived in Russia - and he is already Russian. Or he was born in Russia into a Swedish, German, Dutch, Georgian (and so on) family. Bagration, Minikh, Gogol, even Baron Munchausen, whom his neighbors called Russian at home until his death.
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. Kronos
          Kronos 11 November 2020 12: 07
          +1
          Foreigners are no worse than Russians.
  2. Rumblings
    Rumblings 11 November 2020 05: 54
    +2
    The great empire was Ottoman.
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 11 November 2020 08: 53
      +8
      Quote: Merkit
      The great empire was Ottoman.

      The key word was!
      1. Hantengri
        Hantengri 11 November 2020 09: 56
        13
        "Where the palace stood in the distant years
        And a succession of sultans spent the days.
        There today a turtledove sits among the ruins
        And crying plaintively: "Where, where, where?" "(C)

        Greetings, Vladislav! hi
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 11 November 2020 11: 35
          +6
          Good day!
          The lines are in place. Thanks!
        2. Catfish
          Catfish 11 November 2020 13: 01
          +7
          This guy does not look like a turtle dove, but here's "Where, where, where?" - really interesting.
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 11 November 2020 18: 08
            +5
            But he also sits in Ankara.
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 11 November 2020 18: 13
              +4
              Not sitting yet, while driving with might and main.
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 11 November 2020 18: 16
                +5
                Ataturk's glory haunts Erdogan.
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 11 November 2020 18: 33
                  +3
                  That's for sure. Therefore, he helps Eldar to screw up the Armenians, nat. tradition, so to speak.
                  1. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 11 November 2020 18: 58
                    +6
                    Not at all. First of all, Jews help to screw Armenians to Azerbaijanis.
                    1. Catfish
                      Catfish 11 November 2020 18: 59
                      +3
                      An amazing symbiosis. laughing
                      1. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 11 November 2020 19: 21
                        +4
                        Not at all. They have a common regional enemy - Iran.
                      2. Catfish
                        Catfish 11 November 2020 19: 24
                        +3
                        "Where is the river, and where is the estate", how are the Armenians here to Iran?
                      3. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 11 November 2020 19: 57
                        +4
                        Armenians to Iran - none. But Israel and Azerbaijan, in the regional confrontation, can seriously compete with Iran.
                      4. Catfish
                        Catfish 11 November 2020 20: 14
                        +4
                        Muslims with Jews? Chegoy doesn't really believe in such an alliance.
                        "It is impossible to harness into one cart
                        A horse and a quivering doe ... "(c)
                      5. vladcub
                        vladcub 11 November 2020 20: 23
                        +4
                        Just the same as putting in one bed: a mistress and a wife
                      6. Catfish
                        Catfish 11 November 2020 21: 15
                        +4
                        I haven't tried it, but, in itself, the idea is very interesting. good
                      7. Lexus
                        Lexus 12 November 2020 03: 16
                        +4
                        however, two snakes on one bed is overkill. Cleopatra will confirm. repeat
                      8. Catfish
                        Catfish 12 November 2020 11: 40
                        +3
                        ... however two snakes ...

                        This does not matter at all in a transient fire contact without mutual commitment to the future. laughing
                      9. Lexus
                        Lexus 12 November 2020 17: 52
                        +2
                        Any fleeting clash has a dangerous probability of escalating into protracted battles and even a full-scale war with the signing of an act of surrender, occupation, the appearance of an enemy administration and Gauleiters, and the onerous payment of reparations on a permanent basis by the losing side. laughing
                      10. Catfish
                        Catfish 12 November 2020 19: 20
                        +1
                        It all depends on the talent of the commander, I will humbly note about this. yes
                      11. Lexus
                        Lexus 12 November 2020 19: 24
                        +3
                        On this, many eminent generals "got burned". crying
                      12. Catfish
                        Catfish 12 November 2020 19: 25
                        +1
                        This means that they did not correspond to the high military rank of the commander. But only.
                      13. Lexus
                        Lexus 12 November 2020 19: 27
                        +2
                        "The enemy is cunning and cunning." (FROM)
                      14. Catfish
                        Catfish 12 November 2020 19: 34
                        +1
                        "The enemy is cunning and cunning." Fire! (C)
                        x / f "Big Road".
                      15. Lexus
                        Lexus 12 November 2020 19: 42
                        +3
                        Good! Then whoever is lucky. But there is no war without losses. crying

                      16. Catfish
                        Catfish 12 November 2020 19: 56
                        +2
                        Well, whoever likes it better.
                        "Marusya one, two, three, my Kalina,
                        The maiden in the garden tore a berry "
                        (S. as far as I remember how they sang in the army)

                        Everything is better than Pop ndopula. wink
                      17. Lexus
                        Lexus 12 November 2020 20: 08
                        +3
                        One summer at dawn
                        I looked into the neighboring garden.
                        There is a darling Moldovan
                        Collected grapes.



                        With all hands and not only FOR! lol
                      18. Catfish
                        Catfish 12 November 2020 20: 14
                        +2
                        For a Moldovan, she is somehow not very good, although a beautiful girl.))

                        This one is closer, although she is clearly not a Moldovan either.
                      19. Lexus
                        Lexus 12 November 2020 20: 48
                        +4
                        Well, you really just sent a mestizo. Although also good.
                        These are more similar. In short, for the love International! drinks

                      20. Catfish
                        Catfish 12 November 2020 20: 55
                        +2
                        I join the international! fellow And the photo is very good! good drinks
                      21. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 13 November 2020 00: 12
                        +4
                        Move away from the classics. Bryullov "Italian noon" is not even mentioned.
                      22. Catfish
                        Catfish 13 November 2020 00: 51
                        +2
                        I will immediately restore justice.
                      23. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 13 November 2020 05: 38
                        +2
                        "Much better with tactics!" (from).
  3. Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 12 November 2020 16: 52
    +2
    I haven't tried it, but, in itself, the idea is very interesting.

    the humble genius Berthier did it. I will not say for the bed, but he persuaded his wife to allow his long-term mistress, the Marquis Visconti, to live with them. wink what, however, a sly man in intimate battles!
  4. Lexus
    Lexus 12 November 2020 17: 55
    +3
    "Evil tongues" claim that he finished badly. winked
  5. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 11 November 2020 20: 27
    +5
    Yes, everything is fine for Muslims with Jews! I observed them in their natural environment.
  6. Catfish
    Catfish 11 November 2020 21: 20
    +4
    In a natural environment?
    I can imagine. soldier
  7. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 11 November 2020 21: 24
    +3
    I can imagine.
    Can not. Really. Can not.
  8. Catfish
    Catfish 11 November 2020 21: 27
    +4
    Really ...

    Then I definitely can't, my heart sank.
  9. Lexus
    Lexus 12 November 2020 03: 20
    +3
    Ahaha. Favorite topic. I don’t recognize our captain with a cornet in makeup. winked
  10. Lexus
    Lexus 12 November 2020 03: 33
    +4
    My show is better and more fashionable. You need to be in trend. soldier

  11. Lexus
    Lexus 12 November 2020 03: 17
    +4
    "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." (FROM)
  • Lech from Android.
    Lech from Android. 11 November 2020 05: 56
    +3
    The Turkish sultans have clearly surpassed Ivan the Terrible in the massacre of their sold. Thanks to the author for the insight into the Ottoman Empire. hi
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 11 November 2020 08: 14
      17
      But they remained babies in comparison with their British and French "cousins"!
      God-fearing Englishmen got up to such feints during the War of the White and Scarlet Roses, about Cromwell you can simply remain silent, which surprises the "clichés" of modern researchers.
      The same Frenchmen, they don't boast about their St. Bartholomew's Night. At least Ivan the Terrible, unlike Charles IX, did not shoot at his subjects from the arquebus from the window.
      1. Lech from Android.
        Lech from Android. 11 November 2020 08: 44
        +4
        Europeans are modestly silent about this, the pride of a European civilizer does not allow telling how they burned witches and heretics at the stake.
        1. kalibr
          kalibr 11 November 2020 14: 36
          +2
          Quote: Lech from Android.
          Europeans are modestly silent about this, the pride of a European civilizer does not allow telling how they burned witches and heretics at the stake.

          If you do not know English, this does not mean that there are no books about this published in English. Just look at this. There is a lot here: https://www.history.com/topics/folklore/history-of-witches
      2. Engineer
        Engineer 11 November 2020 15: 11
        +5
        The same Frenchmen, they don't boast about their St. Bartholomew's Night. At least Ivan the Terrible, unlike Charles IX, did not shoot at his subjects from the arquebus from the window.

        The French condemn her.
        Karl did not shoot from the windows.
        St. Bartholomew's Night is the final act of a series of civil wars with a religious flavor
        There was no such thing in Ivan the Terrible's Russia. The intensity is different and the demand is different.
        Washing a black dog white is more of a Russian folk pastime.
        1. Mihaylov
          Mihaylov 11 November 2020 15: 31
          +7
          Quote: Engineer
          There was no such thing in Ivan the Terrible's Russia.

          And here it was, the other day I photographed at a newsstand:

          Just look at what a face! It is immediately evident that a rare ghoul.
          And the headlines are so good: "A madman on the throne. Why did no one overthrow the most bloodthirsty of the Russian tsars?"
          Not bad in my opinion? laughing
          1. Engineer
            Engineer 11 November 2020 15: 40
            +2
            My message was that Grozny had no reason for cruelty. But he gestured sadistically
            And Karl had No. 9. But even that doesn't justify him. Generally.
            And in general, to justify the Terrible by comparing Henry 8 and Karl 9 is like Chikatilo to justify some S. Little.
            1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 11 November 2020 16: 07
              +4
              There is no point in justifying them - you can repeat after the classic "About times - about morals"
              1. Engineer
                Engineer 11 November 2020 16: 14
                +4
                This is the most classic excuse to sit down.
                Not us like that - such a life (s)
            2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 11 November 2020 16: 38
              +5
              Quote: Engineer
              My message was that Grozny had no reason for cruelty. But he gestured sadistically
              And Karl had No. 9. But even that doesn't justify him. Generally.
              And in general, to justify the Terrible by comparing Henry 8 and Karl 9 is like Chikatilo to justify some S. Little.

              Terrible in the popular mind remained - the conqueror of Kazan and the tsar under which Russia stepped beyond the Stone Belt to Siberia.

              At one time, while approving the project of the monument to the 1000th anniversary of Russia, Alexander II left Ermak and Minkh on the pedestal, but crossed out Ivan the Terrible!
              1. Engineer
                Engineer 11 November 2020 16: 49
                +3
                Do not consider it snobbish, but it is better to study history from monographs, and not folk memory
                Or articles on academia.edu
                1. kalibr
                  kalibr 11 November 2020 17: 24
                  10
                  I think we need to remember A.S. Pushkin: Living power is hateful for the rabble,
                  They only know how to love the dead.
                  We are crazy when people splash
                  Or an ardent cry disturbs our heart!
                  God sent our gladness to the earth,
                  The people howled, dying in torment;
                  I opened the granaries for them, I am gold
                  I scattered them, I found work for them -
                  They cursed me, raging!
                  Firefire destroyed their houses,
                  I built new homes for them.
                  They reproached me with the fire!
                  Here is the mob judgment: look for her love.
                  1. Mihaylov
                    Mihaylov 11 November 2020 18: 43
                    +5
                    Quote: kalibr
                    I think we need to remember A.S. Pushkin: Living power is hateful for the rabble,

                    How, how - Boris Godunov.
                    By the way, recently the Soviet film "Boris Godunov" of 1986 went to culture, accidentally began to watch it and got great pleasure. Then he did not enter me, probably was still too small for him. Everything is quite high quality, even the costumes and armor are at a good level.
                2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                  Kote Pan Kokhanka 11 November 2020 17: 52
                  +7
                  I do not argue, although I think that we should read our historians from Tatishchev to Rybakov!
                  What you propose is a game of the highest flight, when two venerable scientists on the arrangement of stones in the excavation are cut to death, each for his own theory. Or out of a dozen household items of Gamayun culture, they describe history, culture, hunting methods, etc. These are high-level games, I read them with sincere pleasure, but comment? God forbid who I am who they are !!! So I'm on top.
                  An example from my experience. In 87 or 88 of the last century, as pioneers, we were engaged in the collection of scrap metal, traditional for the Urals. First, everything is from your own yard, then from your neighbors. The 100-year-old grandfather Blinov, who was sitting with the no less ancient Smolnikov on the rubble, also dropped in. Fortunately with their great-grandchildren, so the booty was promised. The grandfathers treated us to hazel, the grandmothers gave us a pie with liver and onions. But old man Blinov, the armored bed standing in the sled, healed, began to torture what we were teaching, what grades. Well, I blurted out about Pugachev! Grandfathers, the Bolsheviks, who chopped off 50 decades at the plant, called the "people's liberator" the Antichrist and the devil, who planted "Kozlov" in both blast furnaces! And then grandmothers persuaded grandfathers. Smolnikov hobbled to the headmaster the next day and expressed a Bolshevik protest in the education of the pioneers. The bed really broke off to us but in a quiet place and through the garden.
                  Here is the people's memory!
                  Yours!
                  1. Engineer
                    Engineer 11 November 2020 19: 00
                    +4
                    What you are proposing is the ultimate flight game,

                    Completeness, history and historical science are not knowledge for the elite.
                    The entry threshold is different. If some works scared you off by being too academic, this does not mean that there is all that.
                    Today, for example, I came across Bishop's book on Roman swords. There is also an analysis of structures and, attention, metallography. I did not find it in the original, but the enthusiasts translated it. Didn't have time to check it out, but it should be very tasty for almost everyone

                    Well, I’m not tired of praising Connolly. This is the clearest example of how to popularize history. You can read it at 12 and 112
                    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                      Kote Pan Kokhanka 11 November 2020 19: 32
                      +4
                      Dear Denis - I read Bishop, and I learned about Connolly from you for the first time. I will certainly use the advice.
                      And please, let's speak on equal terms. I don’t like it corny - swagger, but you sometimes miss it.
                      Here, no offense, personal observation. I will not sprinkle my regalia, but I have been entering history for a long time.
                      Regarding academicism, you read the first works of Vyashchenko Eduard on a branch, read it easy, even with gusto and asked for more.
                      My gap is ignorance of the intricacies of archeology as an applied science. I saw how they dig, but did not dig it myself.
                      Regards, Vlad!
          2. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 11 November 2020 18: 26
            +6
            "And also," earthworm "!" (FROM)
            1. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 12 November 2020 16: 43
              +4
              "And also," earthworm "!" (FROM)

              Tell me, Knight ... hi Here You always, speaking about the Pope, mention the brave Dominicans next to him. soldier Why Dominicans? No, it's just that you are "in the theme of the Catholic Church," and, alas, I only remember some of the thinkers ... request
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 12 November 2020 19: 00
                +4
                The order was founded in 1214 as an opposition to the Albigensian heresy. Many Dominicans asceticised in the field of the Inquisition, for example Torquemada. Or Sprenger, who is credited with writing The Hammer of the Witches. Domincanus - "Domini canis" ("The Dogs of the Lord")
                It’s in a nutshell.
                1. Pane Kohanku
                  Pane Kohanku 12 November 2020 21: 20
                  +3
                  The order was founded in 1214 as an opposition to the Albigensian heresy.

                  Good. Does the order participate in the daily life of the Vatican? drinks
                  1. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 13 November 2020 05: 22
                    +2
                    The chief theologian of the Vatican is necessarily a Dominican. This tradition is 800 years old.
                    1. Pane Kohanku
                      Pane Kohanku 13 November 2020 09: 07
                      +2
                      The chief theologian of the Vatican is necessarily a Dominican. This tradition is 800 years old.

                      oh how! Theologian or Pope?
                      1. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 13 November 2020 09: 13
                        +2
                        Theologian. Dad is not up to it.
                      2. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 13 November 2020 09: 17
                        +2
                        Theologian. Dad is not up to it.

                        I really learn from you such details that I did not even suspect. Thanks.
                        And the position of the chief theologian is something like the head of the GlavPur? Defines what is good and what is bad?
                      3. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 13 November 2020 09: 36
                        +2
                        No, it's like Shpakovsky's former profession.
                      4. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 13 November 2020 11: 23
                        +1
                        No, it's like Shpakovsky's former profession.

                        Culture and knowledge to the masses? wink

                        Phone call.
                        A voice on the phone prays for laundry.
                        Alas, I got to the University of Culture ...

                        (unknown Japanese poet, early 20th century). drinks
          3. Mihaylov
            Mihaylov 13 November 2020 10: 06
            +1
            Quote: 3x3zsave
            Domincanus - "Domini canis" ("The Dogs of the Lord")

            Wilhelm's speech was interrupted by none other than Bernard, who is now addressing him. "In addition, I would like to hear from you now, Brother Wilhelm, about what records you agreed with Severin this morning, by which you misled Remigius, prompting him to unlawful actions."
            Wilhelm held his gaze without lowering his gaze. "Kelar really went astray, you are right. Severin and I discussed a treatise on the treatment of canine hydrophobia, a work by Ayyub al-Rugawi; this is a book of extraordinary content, which you certainly know from the reviews and which you must have referred to more than once ... Rabies canine, points out Ayub, is determined by twenty-five of the following signs ... "
            Bernard, who belonged to the order of domini canes - "the dogs of the Lord" - chose not to bully in this case. "I see you talked about things that have nothing to do with the case being heard," he said quickly and moved on to further interrogation.
    2. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 12 November 2020 16: 46
      +3
      And here it was, the other day I photographed at a newsstand:

      The expression on the face of the formidable king from the title suggests that he has a cunning plan ... reminded of a famous meme - the king is clearly similar. laughing
      1. Mihaylov
        Mihaylov 12 November 2020 16: 57
        +3
        Quote: Pane Kohanku
        The expression on the face of the formidable king from the title suggests that he has a cunning plan ... reminded of a famous meme - the king is clearly similar

        Now it is clear who served as the prototype for the king for the girls-designers! laughing
        And then Gerasimov, Gerasimov! hi
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 12 November 2020 17: 00
          +3
          And then Gerasimov, Gerasimov!

          no, no, Gerasimov's tsar is straightforward, and here is some kind of malevolent trololo! laughing
          1. Lexus
            Lexus 12 November 2020 17: 59
            +3
            "A fairy tale told at night". (FROM) wassat
      2. Lexus
        Lexus 12 November 2020 17: 57
        +3
        "Mmm ... you have a good plan, comrade Zhukov." (S)
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 11 November 2020 18: 21
    +5
    Washing a black dog white is more of a Russian folk pastime.
    Once again, bravo, Denis!
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 11 November 2020 18: 53
      +3
      Quote: 3x3zsave
      Washing a black dog white is more of a Russian folk pastime.
      Once again, bravo, Denis!

      However, the reverse process can also be attributed to our tradition Anton - when we shave a white and fluffy cat baldly and with greed with rapture in tar with feathers!
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 11 November 2020 19: 03
        +4
        That's what I'm talking about. Do you need to put tar and feathers somewhere? And, "in the kulak economy and the bull's" tail "- a rope."
      2. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 12 November 2020 16: 37
        +3
        when we shave a white and fluffy cat baldly and get dirty with rapture in tar with feathers!

        Like this, as Vasya Lozhkin bequeathed? yes
        1. Lexus
          Lexus 12 November 2020 18: 01
          +2
          He exhorted. He's alive and well. Slightly older than us, as I understand it.
  • vladcub
    vladcub 11 November 2020 20: 26
    +3
    "Karl did not shoot from the windows" was he just waving his pen to the Huguenots?
    1. Engineer
      Engineer 11 November 2020 20: 53
      +3
      Just don't confuse Dumas' pamphlets and novels with history
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 11 November 2020 18: 19
    +4
    The same Frenchmen don't boast about their St. Bartholomew's Night.
    At the very least, they are not ashamed of her.
    1. Engineer
      Engineer 11 November 2020 19: 09
      +4
      Once again, bravo, Denis!

      You are unreasonably praising me)
      For some reason, there have been no articles on the historical topic for a long time on topics that coincide with my interests. Instead of constructive comments, one has to practice rhetoric.
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 11 November 2020 19: 32
        +4
        I praise any interlocutor so much if my knowledge and experience is less than his.
        In connection with this comment, the question arose: what are your interests?
      2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 11 November 2020 19: 37
        +4
        Yes, we are dying of hunger on the "History" branch, absolutely sad and depressing !!!
        What a respected Denis rhetoric, a banal transfusion from empty to empty!
        1. Lexus
          Lexus 12 November 2020 03: 38
          +4
          "While the fat one dries, the thin one dies." (FROM)
  • vladcub
    vladcub 11 November 2020 21: 20
    +4
    Good evening. Peter deigned to chop off his head: too violent
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 11 November 2020 21: 26
      +3
      Sometimes namesake and mercy! The most famous fact (legend) about the grandfather of the Orlov brothers!
  • parusnik
    parusnik 11 November 2020 06: 21
    +6
    Not a plowed field in order to shoot historical series about the Ottoman Empire ..
    The Sultan's club weighed 200 kg
    somehow it's not really hard to believe ... but what
    Banal drunkenness ruined this hero - at the age of 28 he died of cirrhosis of the liver.
    there is no doubt whatsoever.
    1. VLR
      11 November 2020 07: 45
      +7
      The club weighed 20 kg, a typo, already corrected
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 11 November 2020 08: 06
        10
        Twenty kilos is still cool for a blunt weapon! Although show-offs are more expensive than money, well, or the main thing is not to drop such a "fool" on your feet! I clarify my leg, I think the sultan did not regret someone else's. laughing
        1. Lech from Android.
          Lech from Android. 11 November 2020 08: 09
          +5
          I have a sledgehammer in the garage of 15 kg, I have waved a couple of minutes with it and managed to get into the trash, as then the heroes ran with her in battles I can't even imagine.
          1. Astra wild2
            Astra wild2 11 November 2020 08: 59
            +5
            "I would venture to suggest" that the sultan was not going to wave it for a long time, but you can show off a little
            1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 11 November 2020 11: 38
              +4
              Even for show-off heavy weapons, almost one and a half pounds!
              1. Pane Kohanku
                Pane Kohanku 11 November 2020 14: 58
                +6
                Even for show-off heavy weapons, almost one and a half pounds!

                Last year (either in August, or in September), our Anton helped me somehow very strongly in one case. wink In the evening, bowing ceremonially to each other, the parties parted, extremely pleased with each other. drinks I sat on the sofa, which means I turned on the history channel - either "History", or "365 days", and there was a French program "Secrets of History", a series about Mary Stuart. Further - it's funny. The curly-haired presenter is discussing with invited historians and other ikspeRds the actual mechanism of her decapitation (and her head, EMNIP, was only demolished from the third time). Everyone is smart, educated ... wink
                So, a young man is sitting - they say, "medical expert". Broadcasts something like this: "The executioners' weapons were very heavy .. In Moscow, in the Armory, swords weighing 30-40 kilograms are kept ... " belay
                After that, the fate of the unlucky queen became deeply uninteresting to me, since my imagination was captured by the image of a brutal executioner-bodybuilder, swinging a barbell, and at the same time, for some reason, often blows his head off from the first blow. laughing In my opinion, it was easier to just hit the back with a butt - you won't miss ... fellow
                This transfer, if desired, can be found in the internet. hi
                That's it! hi Poor Mary Stuart has no luck in art! request Either the head will be blown off with a crane, then the retinue of half of the Afro-English will be made up - yes, yes, I'm talking about the movie "Two Queens"! laughing

                Do you think this is "Peter the Great arap" with a fan? stop No, this is the first minister of the Scottish kingdom Geoffroy de Pinochet, the 13th Baron of Harlem. fellow Joke. I don't know what the character's name is. And as an artist. laughing
                1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                  Kote Pan Kokhanka 11 November 2020 15: 29
                  +6
                  Niklai, I personally saw the executioners' weapons in the Faceted Chamber (I got to the thematic exhibition) and the Kungur Museum. Axes, battle-axes really look butchery, but I don't believe 40 kilograms. And so go to the meat department and have a look at the chopping ax, I think there must be something similar for the amusement of the crowd.
                  With swords, these weapons are more ritualistic - for nobles. But even then the French tensed and invented the guillotine. Technological and efficient. The Ottomans, in addition to laces, poisoned the Vizier with crushed diamonds under coffee !!! As far as I remember, Pugachev was sworn. In the Urals, we tortured hard workers with a hot piece of iron. They put them in a cage near the blast furnace. Also there were entertainers breeders !!!
                  1. Pane Kohanku
                    Pane Kohanku 11 November 2020 15: 51
                    +5
                    Axes, battle-axes really look butcher's, but I don't believe 40 kilograms.

                    Vladislav, here is the executioner's sword by master Peter Klott, Germany, 1630-1660s. Total length - 106,7 cm, blade length - 83,7 cm, blade width - 4,8 cm. Artillery Museum, St. Petersburg. My photo, 03.12.17.


                    I think he does not pull 30 kg! laughing drinks
                    But even then the French tensed and invented the guillotine. Technological and efficient.

                    Yes - quickly, massively, no expenses, and your hands don't get tired. hi
                    As far as I remember, Pugachev was sworn.

                    Yes, but first they took the head off, and only then - everything else. Not canonical! And the last such verdict, EMNIP - to the Decembrists. Which was mercifully replaced by hanging, to which Pestel joked gloomily and philosophically: "You could have shot us ..." what
                    In the Urals, we tortured hard workers with a hot piece of iron. They put them in a cage near the blast furnace. Also there were entertainers breeders !!!

                    Well, it's generally tough ... No.
                    1. Mihaylov
                      Mihaylov 11 November 2020 16: 02
                      +7
                      Quote: Pane Kohanku
                      executioner's sword

                      He is the sword of justice, welcome Nikolai!
                      In Europe and especially in Germany, they liked to hang such swords in courtrooms (and what? Quite edifying), and they have hung there almost to the present time. Now they like to sell them at all sorts of arms auctions as "authentic medieval swords".
                      1. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 11 November 2020 16: 11
                        +5
                        He is the sword of justice, welcome Nikolai!
                        In Europe and especially in Germany, they liked to hang such swords in courtrooms (and what? Quite edifying), and they have hung there almost to the present time.

                        Hello, hello! drinks The sword of justice hung to the right of the previous exhibit. It even has some kind of religious inscription in German - I can't make out the tablet, which I also removed ... recourse
                        Here it is - on the left in this photo. Germany, 17th century.

                        To his right is another executioner's sword. The region has already been specified - Saxony. also 17th century.
                        And here are their tips. It was hard to shoot, it turned out messy .. sad
                      2. Mihaylov
                        Mihaylov 11 November 2020 16: 31
                        +5
                        Quote: Pane Kohanku
                        It even has some kind of religious inscription in German

                        Such swords were often decorated with all sorts of edifying stories and instructive inscriptions, that's interesting for whom? laughing
                      3. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 11 November 2020 16: 47
                        +6
                        that's interesting for whom

                        ... because the executioner was illiterate, and the defendant didn't care about all the edifications ... laughing About edification! wink At one time (EMNIP, in 2018) I liked the article by Vyacheslav our Olegovich about the "triumph" in Ancient Rome. Like, you, so beautiful, ride a chariot through the city, in a ceremonial sheet all over your body, on your bald head - a wreath, people whistle, throw flowers at your feet, the army is marching, fanfares roar, beaten adversaries are being carried in cages ... , such a proud winner! Generally proud and glorious! fellow ... and you have a front slave behind you, and from time to time he whispers quietly in your ear, an unwashed parasite: "Remember death ... remember death ..." wink Like, do not be proud! Otherwise ... you will end badly .. request This is me, from memory. laughing If you embellished somewhere - call generously! drinks
                      4. Mihaylov
                        Mihaylov 11 November 2020 16: 51
                        +8
                        Quote: Pane Kohanku
                        You are - they say, such a proud winner! Generally proud and glorious! fellow ... and you have a front slave behind you, and from time to time he whispers quietly in your ear, an unwashed parasite:

                        There was something like that, I remember that at the triumph of Caesar, his soldiers sang songs about the "bald womanizer" wassat
                        Like, do not be proud! Otherwise ... you will end badly ..

                        It didn't help: Caesar ended badly ... laughing
                      5. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                        Kote Pan Kokhanka 11 November 2020 19: 44
                        +6
                        Quote: Mihaylov
                        It didn't help: Caesar ended badly ...


                        But we remember him !!! Where did he start and how he ended. Guys have someone some notes about the Gallic war in Pdf. Or similar readings other than Plutarch. I am in the hospital, I almost finished off Emperor Mikiaveli. hi
                      6. Engineer
                        Engineer 11 November 2020 20: 01
                        +6
                        Caesar in pdf
                        https://aldebaran.ru/author/yuliyi_cezar_gayi/kniga_zapiski_o_gallskoyi_voyine/

                        And other classics

                        Flavius ​​Arrian Anabasis Alesandra
                        http://militera.lib.ru/h/arrian/index.html
                        https://vk.com/wall287499401_1663
                        different formats

                        Xenophon's original anabasis in pdf
                        https://vk.com/wall287499401_1663

                        You can book Nefedkin about Sarmatians and ready. It is quite popular there
                      7. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                        Kote Pan Kokhanka 11 November 2020 20: 31
                        +5
                        I bow, anabasis really mastered last year, but I think to repeat it. For me today it is significant!
                        Regards, Vlad!
                      8. Engineer
                        Engineer 11 November 2020 20: 47
                        +4
                        If only for health)
      2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 11 November 2020 16: 14
        +6
        From Trubetskoy's work on rebellious gamayuns!
        ... in 1762, the peasants from. Rusanov has already filed a complaint against Nikita Nikitich's son, Evdokim, in which he was told about the murder of 63 people and about incredible torture: "while one person was laid on a hot iron board, he beat him with whips and burned his hand." The investigation directed by the government did not punish the breeder under the pretext that the murder was not committed by Evdokim himself, but on his order. Well, very convincing! And most importantly, it is extremely similar to the charges brought against Nikita Nikitich himself ten years earlier.

        Note Nikita Nikitich, the youngest son of Ankifiy Demidov!
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 11 November 2020 16: 15
          +5
          And most importantly, it is extremely similar to the charges brought against Nikita Nikitich himself ten years earlier.

          Daddy's education ... negative
        2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 11 November 2020 16: 51
          +4
          Searches about their atrocities at the Nevyansk and Shaitan factories, in the internet with a gulkin's nose. Then I'll get to my notes - I'll post it!
          Corporal punishment at Serginskiye Zavody stopped after their purchase by Mikhail Gubin. This, being a Moscow merchant, preferred to be ruled by the ruble - "the beastly grin of capitalism." Moreover, having successfully increased the gamayun area by three processing plants and two ironworks!
          The Stroganov factories were the mecca of factory happiness. The barons did not skimp on social services, almost successfully fought off the Bashkirs and Pugachev colonels. There were precedents when Bashkir yurts were registered as serfs by the Stroganovs, for benefits and social guarantees.
        3. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 11 November 2020 21: 07
          +2
          Searches about their atrocities at the Nevyansk and Shaitan factories, in the internet with a gulkin's nose. Then I'll get to my notes - I'll post it!

          Vlad, I don't know what to say ... Animal grin is not clear what ..
  • Lexus
    Lexus 12 November 2020 04: 12
    +2
    Kolya, hello! hi
    With this weight of the sword, it was easier for the queen to hit it. And the First Minister of the Kingdom of Scotland, in the course of the plague somewhere in the south, "self-isolated". winked
  • depressant
    depressant 11 November 2020 11: 48
    +7
    Colleague parusnik, there is also an unplowed field for serials based on Russian history, but who would shoot! The impression is that at Mosfilm solid Russophobes have settled down. And in contrast - with what great love for its history, with what amazing art "The Magnificent Age" was filmed!
    Only one episode with Mustafa approaching his father's camping tent is worth something. He walked towards her throughout the entire series, slowly, as in a bad dream, to the tragic military music, he went to death, breaking, tiring, shaking the viewer mentally with this death stretched out in time - that's how it was filmed, a masterpiece!
    And, most importantly, when you look, you completely forget that these are actors. I remember Danila Kozlovsky as Vladimir, "Viking". It was Danila Kozlovsky with playboy manners in theatrical outfit.
    But about our ancient history, dozens, if not hundreds of TV series can be filmed.
    1. Trilobite Master
      Trilobite Master 11 November 2020 14: 16
      11
      Quote: depressant
      The impression is that at Mosfilm solid Russophobes have settled down.

      They are not Russophobes, Lyudmila Yakovlevna. They are businessmen. A Russophobe is someone who hates Russians and Russians in detail, right? And they don't hate, they despise. And not Russians and Russians, but everyone and everything, well, except for money, of course. Hence the conclusion - it is necessary to do it more simply in order to reach the maximum audience and at a cheaper price. Not cheaper for the state, they will take from the state in full, for themselves. Tear three quarters of the budget, shoot for the rest a simple, sorry, shit, so primitive that it was clear to the last oligophrenic - and for rent, the results of which no longer interest anyone, because the film has already paid off for the creators.
      Then you ask me where does anti-Sovietism come from in our cinema, like this abomination of the last "Zuleikh", "To Paris" or "Holiday"? And I will answer. smile
      The origins of this abomination are also in the desire to make more money. Here two screenwriters come to you with their scripts. One says: "Here's a script for you, give me money." The second says: "Here's a script, and here's the money." Which scenario will you take? smile
      And again, you ask me where does the money come from to bring it to the studio along with the script? Or don't you ask? Probably, and so it is clear who has as much of this money as the printing press can handle, and who is specifically and vitally interested in our hating and despising our own country.
      And then you ask again: "Misha, what about the state? The Ministry of Culture, the Film Fund? What are they for?" And I'll answer you here too. My answer is: "I don’t know, Lyudmila Yakovlevna. I don’t know." request
      It is possible that recruited agents sit in these organizations whose task is to carry out subversive ideological work on the territory of the Russian Federation. Then the question is why the FSB has not dealt with them so far.
      Perhaps they just sit there ... these, in short. Then the question is why they have not yet been driven out.
      And finally, it is possible that this is just another demonstration of how power can be transformed into money. Well, I have no questions here.
      And about the fact that a huge number of interesting films can be made from our history, I agree with you 100%. The question is - is it worth giving money for this now? For what? So that the next Zvyagintsev enriched himself and in gratitude poured out on us a new "Leviathan" on the theme of Ivan the Terrible or Yaroslav the Wise? Or do we want to watch the next "Viking" or "Kolovrat"?
      1. Liam
        Liam 11 November 2020 14: 34
        -1
        Quote: Trilobite Master
        And again, you ask me where does the money come from to bring it to the studio along with the script? Or don't you ask? Probably, and so it is clear who has as much of this money as the printing press can handle, and who is specifically and vitally interested in our hating and despising our own country.
        And then you ask again: "Misha, what about the state? The Ministry of Culture, the Film Fund? What are they for?" And I'll answer you here too. My answer is: "I don’t know, Lyudmila Yakovlevna. I don’t know."
        It is possible that recruited agents sit in these organizations whose task is to carry out subversive ideological work on the territory of the Russian Federation.

        Hike Obama, Rothschild and the Freemasons not only made their way to the entrances, but also to Mosfilm ...
        1. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 11 November 2020 14: 47
          +9
          Quote: Liam
          Obama, Rothschild and the Freemasons not only made their way into the entrances,

          I do not know what they are doing in your doorways. Maybe not they? Take a closer look. Or change drugs.
          As for sponsoring subversive ideological work on the territory of a geopolitical enemy, in my opinion, this is not surprising. It would be surprising if such work was not carried out.
          It's all the same, as if I sent you five hundred rubles by mail, and for this fee on all branches of the site, in plain text, you would admit yourself to be feeble-minded ... laughing
          I think it would be a perfectly justified waste. smile
          1. Liam
            Liam 11 November 2020 14: 59
            -4
            )))
            With some regret, I have to state that the subversive efforts of the Freemasons, Omerigi and aliens from Nibiru in your relation were not in vain
            1. Trilobite Master
              Trilobite Master 11 November 2020 15: 04
              10
              You speak just like a Freemason who flew in from Nibiru. laughing
              So, how's the deal going? Drop the address in a personal, earn a little ... smile
              1. Liam
                Liam 11 November 2020 15: 26
                -2
                Again, be offended, but you are operating on painfully rogue sums)
                1. Trilobite Master
                  Trilobite Master 11 November 2020 15: 54
                  +9
                  But it seems to me just right. Well, from bounty I can throw a hundredth, but no more. No.
                  1. Liam
                    Liam 11 November 2020 17: 04
                    -1
                    Quote: Trilobite Master
                    I can sotochku

                    Now that's Rothschild)

                    But seriously ... it's not for nothing that I told you that you and Bar are two sides of the same coin. The Vatican and the Freemasons stole the glorious past from him, you have a bright present.
                    1. Trilobite Master
                      Trilobite Master 11 November 2020 18: 03
                      +7
                      Nothing was stolen from me. The bright present does not exist -
                      And the eternal battle, we only dream of peace
                      . laughing
                      There is a struggle for minds, and my fate in this country depends on the outcome of this struggle. "Zuleikha" and "Leviathan" wins - it will be bad. "Crimea" wins - nothing good either. But if I have to choose between these two evils, I prefer the latter. In this case, those who will command will do it, at least in Russian.
                      The last phrase is not for you, Liam, just thinking out loud, you can not react.
                    2. Liam
                      Liam 11 November 2020 20: 02
                      -1
                      Quote: Trilobite Master
                      There is a fight for minds

                      It depends on which one. You read the branches on VO and a lot of minds are not needed for nothing. I almost never speak out on internal Russian affairs ... but for now there will be such an existential mess in my heads as in this new epistolary genre Letters from Misha to Lyudmila - Russia does not expect anything good. And this despite the fact that your mind is far from the worst on this site, but rather above the average. It's sad, in fact, that quite well-read people are so archaic in their worldview.
                2. Catfish
                  Catfish 11 November 2020 17: 45
                  +4
                  No, there will be an obvious overpayment, it’s not worth it, and five hundred will be too much, it’s better to send it to a shelter for homeless animals, more sense.
              2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                Kote Pan Kokhanka 11 November 2020 16: 56
                +6
                Quote: Liam
                Again, be offended, but you are operating on painfully rogue sums)

                There is a saying - "There is a hat for Senka!" laughing
                1. Liam
                  Liam 11 November 2020 17: 01
                  -2
                  Do not offend your colleague .. he operates with capital
                  1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                    Kote Pan Kokhanka 11 November 2020 17: 59
                    +5
                    Quote: Liam
                    Do not offend your colleague .. he operates with capital

                    Do not distort Liam, my opus is for you personally. I am ready to argue with you on specific topics. So humble yourselves Your price in my eyes about "common issues" 500 wooden.
                    At the same time, when you and I are dealing with Roman history, I personally get immeasurable pleasure in money.
                    Somewhere like that, sorry to be rude, but!
                  2. Liam
                    Liam 11 November 2020 19: 37
                    0
                    Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
                    sorry to be rude

                    You are much more harmless as an enemy than as a friend, so your swinging at me will not bother me at all)
              3. Catfish
                Catfish 11 November 2020 17: 46
                +4
                And if this Senka has nothing to put on a hat? laughing
      2. Engineer
        Engineer 11 November 2020 15: 06
        +7
        As for sponsoring subversive ideological work on the territory of a geopolitical enemy, in my opinion, this is not surprising.

        In such cases, I always remember the wonderful

        The world is ruled not by a secret lodge, but by an obvious mess (s)
        1. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 11 November 2020 15: 53
          10
          It is necessary and important to water the enemy (or competitor, if one goes down from the level of states to the level of commercial enterprises) with all sorts of sewage. You can do it from your own camp - oh, he is so-and-so, but here the bazaar needs to be filtered, they may ask ... the process is not followed, there is no quality control ", they say, look for the authors, but we do not need it. But the highest class of such work is to organize (provoke stupidity, bribe someone, deceive, there are a lot of options) to drain such chernukha from the competitor's own camp. When the enemy pours feces on himself, the soul rejoices. And if this, in addition, is inexpensive, but looks impressive, then you can already drill a hole for the order and open your wallet wider - the prize will be ...
          And if someone neglects such methods of waging a struggle, then it is, at least, unreasonable on his part.
          Did you notice how sharply Zuleikha fired? Launched like a rocket. There was not, there was not, and suddenly - once! - is and is everywhere and at once. Such a good book? Not at all. Not Tolstoy and not Sholokhov. Not even Lukyanenko. And the series is ready. Also, not "Seventeen Moments of Spring", of course, but they showed it on TV.
          Who performed this operation? Author? Publisher?
          The second question: financially, investments in this project have paid off, what do you think?
          But there are not one or two such projects - clearly unprofitable and just as clearly politically engaged.
          All this takes place not without the stupidity of officials, not without corruption, of course, but not without third-party funding sources.
          Well, the last question - where do these sources come from and how are they replenished ... It is impossible to answer it without holding special events. But I am ready to listen to your hypotheses.
          So: where does the money come from? smile
          1. Engineer
            Engineer 11 November 2020 16: 12
            +9
            Did you notice how sharply the Zuleikha fired? Launched like a rocket.

            Didn't find any differences in promotion from the film "Crimea"
            Two brown varieties. Just with different polarities.

            It is necessary to clearly understand that in Russian society there is a demand for "liberalism" in the domestic interpretation and for the "crap Englishwoman"

            If Pozner says live on a federal channel "Russians do not know how to work in Protestant" this does not mean that he received another. tranche from the State Department. He simply indulges his target audience with "the wrong people".

            If Mamontov issues an "investigative journalism" on the very first channel that the Russian nationalist movement is funded from Britain, he does exactly the same. Says what his audience expects from him

            And don't forget that scandal is the best advertisement.

            And no State Department. Old Occam is doing quite well
            1. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 11 November 2020 16: 21
              +9
              And no State Department. Old Occam is doing quite well

              Duns Scott .. William Ockham .. Someone else was the third of the great philosopher-monks of the time. what Could it be Thomas Aquinas? what This I offhand recalled a lecture on the history of psychology from the first year. For the third week I have been trying to remember, it entered my head, and then your words, Denis! drinks
              In general .. An interesting phenomenon .. how people in monasteries were engaged not only, in fact, church activities, but also serious philosophy! good
              1. Engineer
                Engineer 11 November 2020 16: 30
                +7
                Could it be Thomas Aquinas?

                If you take whales, then he is one of them
                Of the not promoted were all sorts of Isidors of Seville, etc.
                1. Pane Kohanku
                  Pane Kohanku 11 November 2020 16: 40
                  +8
                  If you take whales, then he is one of them

                  If you ask offhand what kind of Western church figures you have heard, you immediately remember three - Augustine Aurelius, Francis of Assisi, Thomas Aquinas. Here it is, a consequence of the first course of study laughing
                2. Engineer
                  Engineer 11 November 2020 16: 47
                  +5
                  Someone has a good memory.)
                3. Pane Kohanku
                  Pane Kohanku 11 November 2020 16: 55
                  +8
                  Someone has a good memory.

                  Denis, I bow, but I am very far from your knowledge! good My memory is selective. wink I diligently forget the bad deeds I have done ... hi
                  For us, the professor of the history of psychology has listed all the philosophers, starting with the ancient atomists - Thales, Anaximander, Anaximenes. And it was necessary to remember what the drunken Socrates blurted out about his soul, how the hungover Plato wrote down behind him, and how the thoughts of the sober, but unshaven, Aristotle differed from this .. fellow And why not a single work of Democritus has reached us - because the apologist of another philosophical branch Plato diligently tried to destroy them. angry How Thomas thought, and what Leibniz had invented about "monads" ... I had to remember this all ... No. In general, I remembered only the names and interesting facts. lol drinks
                4. Engineer
                  Engineer 11 November 2020 17: 01
                  +6
                  How Thomas thought, and what Leibniz invented about "monads

                  This is also a classic
                  I felt irritated.
                  “This whole conversation is pretty primitive. We started with who I am by nature. If you like, I suppose myself ... Well, let's say, a monad. In Leibniz's terms.
                  - And who, then, is the one who considers himself to be this m @ nda?
                  “The Monad thinks,” I replied, firmly resolving to control myself.
                  “Okay,” said Chapaev, squinting slyly, “we'll talk about“ who ”later. And now, dear friend, let's figure it out with "where". Tell me where this m @ nd @ lives?
                  - In my mind.
                  - And where is your consciousness?
                  “Right here,” I said, tapping myself on the head.
                  - And where is your head?
                  - On shoulders.
                  - Where are your shoulders?
                  - In the room.
                  - Where is the room?
                  - In home.
                  - And the house?
                  - In Russia.
                  - And where is Russia?
                  - In trouble, Vasily Ivanovich.
                  “Drop it,” he shouted sternly. - You will joke when the commander orders. Speak.
                  - Well, how where. On the ground.
                  We clinked glasses and drank.
                  - And where is the Earth?
                  - In the Universe.
                  - And where is the Universe?
                  I thought for a second.
                  - By itself.
                  - And where is this in itself?
                  - In my mind.
                  - So, Petka, it turns out that your consciousness is in your consciousness?
                  - It turns out like this.
                  - So, - said Chapaev and straightened his mustache. - Now listen to me carefully. Where is it located?
                  - I don't understand, Vasily Ivanovich. The concept of place is one of the categories of consciousness, so ...
                  - Where is that place? Where is the concept of place?
            2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 11 November 2020 17: 03
              10
              Quote: Pan Kohanku
              If you take whales, then he is one of them

              If you ask offhand what kind of Western church figures you have heard, you immediately remember three - Augustine Aurelius, Francis of Assisi, Thomas Aquinas. Here it is, a consequence of the first course of study laughing

              I am lying in the hospital, reading Sovereign Mikiaveli, I understand that I am not learning anything new, but how relevant everything is !!!
            3. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 11 November 2020 17: 05
              10
              I am lying in the hospital, reading Sovereign Mikiaveli, I understand that I am not learning anything new, but how relevant everything is !!!

              Vlad, with the same success you can read "Dead Souls". laughing Everything is like ours! Only without iPhones. drinks
            4. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 11 November 2020 18: 02
              +5
              I tried to download The Idiot Dostoevsky, they gave only an introductory excerpt. Offended reading the Emperor!
            5. Korsar4
              Korsar4 12 November 2020 18: 13
              +1
              Dostoevsky can be found.
              For me, the criterion is if it is, and anyone else can.

              But you managed to voice the title of this novel here. And it has not been erased. This is also a talent.

              Get well!
        2. Catfish
          Catfish 11 November 2020 17: 29
          +6
          Vlad, and what's in the hospital, did Vir pick it up?
        3. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 11 November 2020 18: 08
          +8
          Such a service cannot be dismissed from people, that's why I didn't protect myself. For two weeks, eleven days in the hospital! I seem to be scrambling !!!
          Thanks for work!
        4. Catfish
          Catfish 11 November 2020 18: 15
          +8
          I sincerely wish to get better and not to be ill anymore. So Vyacheslav got sick too. Somehow all this does not add optimism. Here in the villages and in Ryazan, too, not very. Well, let's be alive! drinks
        5. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 11 November 2020 18: 45
          +7
          Take care of yourself, your family and friends, sincerely to everyone, without any background.
        6. Lexus
          Lexus 12 November 2020 04: 59
          +4
          Vlad, hello! hi
          Disease - set aside!
    2. VLR
      11 November 2020 19: 34
      +6
      Vladislav, no "it seems": everything will be fine!
    3. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 11 November 2020 19: 59
      +7
      Thank you Valery!
    4. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 11 November 2020 20: 24
      +8
      Thank you Valery!

      Some of us must become a real general ... what Really? wink otherwise I only congratulated real colonels yesterday ... but never a real general! crying but only as you want, you will not believe it! I even know the candidacy .. Normal .. Someone whom, unlike myself - "jacket", I consider a real Officer .. drinks
      Get well soon ... yes You yourself know that it is not accepted to be sick in the service. what And if such crap - get well completely, and soon. We love you. Where are we without you ... request
  • vladcub
    vladcub 11 November 2020 20: 45
    +8
    Namesake, speedy recovery
  • Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 11 November 2020 21: 29
    +5
    Thank you for your kind word Vlad!
  • Phil77
    Phil77 11 November 2020 20: 54
    +6
    Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
    in the hospital!

    Oh, and them yourself !!! Vlad! I also wish you health and speedy deliverance from ailments !!!! Get well soon !!!!! hi hi hi
  • Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 11 November 2020 21: 30
    +5
    Thank you Sergey!
  • Engineer
    Engineer 11 November 2020 16: 46
    +7
    instead of an epilogue
    So: where does the money come from?

    The money is given directly by the AP. laughing
    The goal is to completely discredit the liberal idea in Russia and present it in the form of a "straw effigy."
    Purpose No. 2 justification of the introduction of a criminal offense for "distorting history" what has been the conversation at least since 2017

    As you can see, my explanation is no worse
    1. It also appeals to philistine logic without any facts.
    2. It has elements of a conspiracy theory
    3. It considers events from the point of view of the opposition of the two systems and brings this basis under everything in the world.
    4. It reflects primarily the personal predilections of the author)
    tongue
    1. Trilobite Master
      Trilobite Master 11 November 2020 17: 41
      +6
      You have to select facts, spend a lot of time, look at the numbers and compare them, I write offhand. Once I looked.
      On the subject of conspiracy theory, I'm not sure that both yours and yours have one.
      But as for the confrontation between the two systems, in my opinion it really takes place and some, I emphasize, it does affect some aspects of our life. But by no means "everything in the world."
      Comparison of "Zuleikha" and "Crimea" I consider, in general, correct, although the film and the series are difficult to compare in terms of just comparing the budget and fees.
      But if everything is clear about "Crimea" with its production - where did the money come from, who lobbied, etc. (it is quite natural for the state to encourage the production of such films), then I have not found any information about the sources or the amount of funding about Zuleikha. A book that no one needed for six, or whatever it is, for years suddenly came out in a huge circulation and was sold to all stores throughout the country, although the text itself is very so-so.
      The story with the film "Holiday", for example, is also interesting. They wanted to rent for 3,5 million, of which 1,5 to collect from the people. The people gave only 130 thousand. wink , but the film was shot for 4 million. smile
      Although, in general, I understand that proving the existence of an external source of funding for some national projects is the business of the competent authorities rather than mine, and it will most likely not be possible to obtain specific and reliable figures from open sources. Therefore, the discussion, it seems, can be curtailed, for its pointlessness and futility.
      1. Engineer
        Engineer 11 November 2020 19: 26
        +4
        You can also collapse.
        Finally, I will just note
        https://edition.cnn.com/videos/politics/2018/08/15/ny-gov-andrew-cuomo-america-was-never-that-great-sot-vpx.ny-governors-office
        https://www.amazon.com/America-Never-Fashion-Classical-Cowboy/dp/B07YFP1XD6

        Does this mean that there is a fifth column in the United States controlled by the Kremlin?
        Or is it all a hypertrophied, partly infantile attempt by frustrated people to overthrow the familiar symbols associated with the state. And in the minds of these, their own state has become a machine of oppression at someone's behest? Perhaps, in their minds, real and imaginary vices for which the authorities are responsible and they are simply trying to overthrow it are weirdly intertwined? Recklessly, stupidly, selfishly, spontaneously, but nevertheless, this impulse comes from the very depths of human souls, and is not induced from outside.

        Is it a big mistake to transfer this to any protest movement in any country? Doesn't "slander" become, if not natural, then at least understandable in this context?
        1. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 11 November 2020 19: 36
          +6
          Protest movements have been and will always and everywhere. I do not know if the "hand of the Kremlin" is behind these figures, but this hand is simply obliged to respond to them and feed them with ideas, finances and other swagger. How smart, subtle, and effective it will be is a question of a different order. I know for sure - to ignore such gestures in the camp of a competitor is a crime against your corporation. smile
        2. Engineer
          Engineer 11 November 2020 19: 51
          +5
          You see, you can't be a little pregnant.
          You are now using the protest movement in a competing country. Then you show your flock "they have negros rebelled" Then you begin to add that not only everything is bad with them, but we are generally all nishyachok. But you won't stop there either. All that bad happens with us immediately declare the intrigues of "black lovers"

          Here is one author of articles about armored vehicles at the VO suddenly writes an article that there were no emissions in Kamchatka. All is good. And as an argument in the dispute, he cited the words of the governor of Kamchatka
          And today he is writing an article about the US elections, citing fakes instead of facts with the message "here it is their democracy." As poop intended for information war with an ideological enemy suddenly begin to feed the already native man in the street.
        3. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 11 November 2020 20: 37
          +6
          You will not enter the boxing ring with the thoughts "I will not hit him with an uppercut on the right, otherwise he will hit me." To instill in a competitor in the fight for loot something that you would not want to see in your home and prevent the same in your space is a normal political struggle, double standards, and so on ... There is a cool excuse for all time: “We have something completely different don't be confused. " Their opposition is good, ours is harmful. Their government is ghouls, ours is paladins. They have Mordor, we have Valinor. The only question is who in their propaganda is more skillful, subtle, tactful and better able to use their positive sides and negative sides of the opponent.
          A native man in the street eats - well, it means he will be full. And full means satisfied. Well, if your nose turns up, you need to quickly bungle a new dish.
          I don’t understand what you are afraid of. This has always been the case, and with modern means of communication, controlling the mood of the masses is even easier.
          Here we just need to add some intelligence ... But this is no longer for me. smile
          Thanks for the conversation, Denis. hi
        4. Engineer
          Engineer 11 November 2020 20: 56
          +5
          Thanks for the conversation, Denis.

          Please.
          The historical traditions of the confrontation between Moscow and Tver were once again honored)
  • Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 11 November 2020 18: 04
    +6
    The word Demagogue is also abusive today, but did one of the hamsters read its translation from Ancient Greek?
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 11 November 2020 19: 19
    +5
    Denis! Already tired of sending you "bravo"!
    1. Engineer
      Engineer 11 November 2020 19: 33
      +8
      It would be better to be scolded, you see, maybe I'll get together and write an article. Not about a movie, but about a spear-arrow. To make it interesting for everyone. And so that the visual material is better than Shpakovsky's)
      1. Mihaylov
        Mihaylov 11 November 2020 19: 49
        +7
        Quote: Engineer
        can get together and write an article. Not about a movie, but about a spear-arrow.

        It would be very nice, at least the reason would be buried in a monograph.
        Personally, I am for academic excellence!
      2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 11 November 2020 20: 03
        +7
        Quote: Engineer
        It would be better to be scolded, you see, maybe I'll get together and write an article. Not about a movie, but about a spear-arrow. To make it interesting for everyone. And so that the visual material is better than Shpakovsky's)

        I have already started!!!
      3. Liam
        Liam 11 November 2020 20: 58
        0
        Quote: Engineer
        I'll write an article

        Better not
        1. Engineer
          Engineer 11 November 2020 20: 59
          +6
          Better not

          Okay, I will not)
          1. Liam
            Liam 11 November 2020 21: 02
            +1
            ))

            If seriously, we will lose a great commentator, an educated and good polemicist for the sake of the dubious acquisition of another author about bows / arrows. The salt of the discussion site and not the articles themselves
          2. Engineer
            Engineer 11 November 2020 21: 12
            +8
            good polemicist

            It seems like I was listed among the progressive public in Petrosyan?)
            about bows / arrows

            There are only two of them. And Mr. Vaschenko appears less and less often.
            Mr. Ryzhov is more interested in collisions, aphorisms, grimaces of fortune. He never liked bows and arrows
            Seriously though, I just decided to understand one topic and drowned in contradictions. I thought, but if you present it in a thesis for analysis and consolidation, then you will get a full-fledged article which you can share. The only problem is that one topic clings to another, I constantly feel that I am swimming. The stronger the challenge to understand.
            There are a couple of excellent archaeological finds on the topic in a popular narrative that have never been presented.

            Shl one article is already on VO. Though rather short.
          3. Liam
            Liam 11 November 2020 21: 23
            +1
            Quote: Engineer
            Petrosyan

            I'm bored ... and nothing will be lost)
            Better to prevent than cure
            Quote: Engineer
            There are only two of them

            I suspect that it will be about Old Slavonic bows / arrows. And there are not so many of them for three authors. And practically there will be no one to criticize and to arrange holivar, in connection with the transition of almost the only one who understands the topic (you) on the other side of the barricade. Well, perhaps comrade Undichim out of courtesy, he will make some kind of amendment. The rest will be delighted with the appearance of the long-awaited article that brightens the day in the morning with a smooth transition to ping pong from pictures of pin-ups and quotes from songs.
          4. Engineer
            Engineer 11 November 2020 21: 36
            +6
            No. I would not want material in opposition to someone
            The main delay is that communication with the reenactors did not work out, and there are very few of them in the subject being analyzed. I would not like to issue a simple compile. And not simple either. Artem, for example, shoveled a bunch of material for his cycle, but his work did not really go here. There must be some spices.
          5. Liam
            Liam 11 November 2020 21: 44
            +2
            For a serious academic article, the audience is not the right one. The only passable option is folk history. With elements of "pop". But this niche is already occupied by Ryzhov.
            And within the framework of the discussion of these "light" articles, serious topics are discussed by those who are really interested in the argument, with links, etc.
            You have already written one "serious" article. In terms of visual interest, I did not "shoot", although it is written soundly. Too soundly) and not for an amateur. And there are such here on the fingers (not all) of one hand
          6. Engineer
            Engineer 11 November 2020 22: 01
            +6
            So I say, we need spices.
            Or filling cream
            # Tsushima For example)
            - wrong audience

            So here is 50-50. And for the audience and for yourself. You write and there is additional understanding and comprehension.
            Offhand here AllBeBack, Abrakadabre, Mihaylov, fuxila (very rarely, unfortunately, writes.) These are people who are ready to poke exactly at the source
            I will not pull the academic one objectively. But it is imperative to give a certain pseudoscience. Problem statement, work with sources, explain why I wrote about something that has already been covered more than once.
            There are two approaches
            The article is an impression after reading a particularly interesting material. The first article was like this
            For example, I was close to doing something like this after this:
            MC Bishop Lorica Segmentata Volume I: A Handbook of Articulated Roman Plate Armor
            The main reason why I did not write is that there is practically nothing about the protective qualities of the segmentat. There is only a seditious, on the verge of sensation, a hint that so-so. Maybe in the second volume will be. I cannot write without conclusions.

            The second approach is personal research. You delve into historiography, understand the typologies of some brooches and read, say, about the statistical processing of ceramics for ethnic attribution.
            But with this approach, you invest not just time, but yourself, forgetting about balance and everything else.
          7. Mihaylov
            Mihaylov 12 November 2020 10: 20
            +5
            Quote: Engineer
            For example, I was close to doing something like this after this:
            MC Bishop Lorica Segmentata Volume I: A Handbook of Articulated Roman Plate Armor
            The main reason why I did not write is that there is practically nothing about the protective qualities of the segmentat.

            Good afternoon, according to "Lorica segmented" You probably saw this information, but - just in case:
            https://www.ndr.de/nachrichten/niedersachsen/Roemischer-Schienenpanzer-in-Kalkriese-entdeckt,kalkriese446.html?fbclid=IwAR2LnX0-ZcVFzY6dtvhox-AZ7hbEYMcgpKFIZ4_AcwVo85nhT-PpWS55-cg
          8. Engineer
            Engineer 12 November 2020 12: 16
            +4
            No, I haven't seen
            Thank you very much.
            If the reconstruction is correct, then this is a mini-sensation. Such mantles seem to be unknown
          9. Mihaylov
            Mihaylov 12 November 2020 12: 47
            +4
            Quote: Engineer
            No, I haven't seen
            Thank you very much.

            More recently, Negin's book on Roman armor was published, probably seen.
            I haven't bought it yet, but I think I should probably take it.
            If you read it - is it worth taking?
          10. Engineer
            Engineer 12 November 2020 13: 40
            +3
            No, I didn’t read it.

            I have long been skewed towards English-language literature, but it turned out somehow by itself and I have no prejudices against Russian authors.
            Ours often have a weak visual part, but it seems to be not related to Negin's book
            Book abstract here
            https://diss.unn.ru/files/2017/757/autoref-757.pdf
            Especially tasty
            Paragraph 4. Subparagraph 3 "Helmets with masks"
            Paragraph 4. Subparagraph 3. Paragraph 1 "To the question
            combat use of Roman helmets with masks "
            The most famous helmet-masks are considered including Ribchester
            Paragraph 5 "Horse armor: horse eyecups,
            foreheads and bibs "
            Paragraph 1 "Material and manufacturing technique"

            Conclusion - we must take)
          11. Mihaylov
            Mihaylov 12 November 2020 14: 53
            +4
            Quote: Engineer
            Conclusion - we must take

            Well, as the secretary Verochka said in the famous film: "So the boots are good - you have to take them." laughing
          12. Engineer
            Engineer 12 November 2020 18: 31
            +3
            By the way, Negin draws professionally
            Including for Osprey
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 12 November 2020 18: 19
    +3
    There is no worse property to hang labels. And Petrosyan and humor are on different planes.

    Once I got to a concert about a professional holiday.

    I looked at everything - listened with pleasure.

    He literally turned away from this namesake of the world chess champion. Not funny. And upsetting.
  • Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 11 November 2020 21: 32
    +6
    Quote: Liam
    Quote: Engineer
    I'll write an article

    Better not

    Liam, get out of here in the forest!
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 11 November 2020 21: 17
    +5
    Why scold? And should I?
  • vladcub
    vladcub 11 November 2020 20: 42
    +3
    Good evening, but if he takes the money and does not recognize that then. To challenge to a duel or simply in the snout?
  • Catfish
    Catfish 11 November 2020 15: 26
    +6
    Hi Michael hi
    This is how you honor you and inevitably become proud that you have not seen any of these films and that you do not watch modern domestic film production at all. I may be a completely dark person, but I have not seen either "Game of Thrones" or "The Magnificent Age", which Lyudmila praises so much. And is it worth watching, somehow optimism is not added to me from what I see looking out the window, and no movie is needed. Blues, is it rolling every autumn? drinks
    1. Trilobite Master
      Trilobite Master 11 November 2020 15: 59
      +8
      Welcome.
      "Zuleikhu" watched one episode - enough.
      The rest is also in pieces. As the saying goes, to taste the rubbish, one spoon is enough.
      "The Magnificent Age" did not look at all.
      But I love Game of Thrones, but only the first few seasons. From some point on, the show slipped irresistibly into ... there, in general. And the ending was an enchanting trash. But the first seasons are quite watchable.
      1. vladcub
        vladcub 11 November 2020 20: 51
        +5
        "" to taste the rubbish, one spoon is enough ", but he sniffed and hare. More precisely, he looked for ten minutes and turned off
    2. Korsar4
      Korsar4 11 November 2020 16: 02
      +5
      I watched “Game of Thrones” for the first 40 minutes. Wondering how useful this series is for my son?

      But after what happened - what is there to think.

      He also stayed away from The Magnificent Century, despite the advertising.
      And the excerpts in the quarantine time have already been registered in my head. I didn't shield myself.
      1. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 11 November 2020 16: 24
        +8
        I watched “Game of Thrones” for the first 40 minutes. Wondering how useful this series is for my son?

        I only watched the last season. Mine looked before - and I checked it with her. request From the second episode I already knew who to whom, when and whom. laughing
      2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 11 November 2020 17: 21
        +7
        Game of Thrones, read the book - liked it. I watched the series in fits and starts. I don’t even want to get dirty with any Kolovrats and Zuleikas. And Viking went and looked specifically. Yes, not historically, but emotionally! If you do not take this film as an epic, and there are, for example, Ermak. For young people it will be a small gate to the door of our history. It all starts small.
        The son of a colleague, after going to the film, presented a four-volume edition of Karamzin! The guy got carried away, got sick with history !!! He sees himself as a historian, wants to study to be a teacher. On the one hand, an entourage film, on the other, a boy who takes from me to read from PVL to Solovyov at the age of 15.
        My daughter even considers him to be a botanist and a lichinus, but being in his first year at university, she promoted him to a report on Kerensky, me personally on Kornilov! She cut down two fives at the expense of Kolya and me. My status has not changed, the disguise has increased to useful !!! We laugh as families, but not openly!
        Okay, this is about personal, the main button in Kolya's mind was the crooked "Viking" and two dads who took the boy on their word of honor, while their halves raided the shopping center!
        Well, somewhere like that!
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 11 November 2020 20: 30
          +8
          What a great story.

          And my eighth-grader got into the prize-winners at the regional Olympiad in history.
          She, however, gets somewhere in all subjects.

          But yesterday she and her second daughter discussed the Sophia Cathedrals.
    3. kalibr
      kalibr 11 November 2020 17: 37
      +9
      Konstantin! We are wife, me, and my granddaughter do not watch TV at all. The last film "Va-bank 3" and then because they were at the scene of his action ha ha. And also the American "Sound of a Distant Trumpet" ... and that's it. This is for the last month. And nothing! We live!
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 11 November 2020 17: 39
        +7
        Yes, I also bypass this chest. smile
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 11 November 2020 20: 32
          +7
          Yes, I also bypass this chest.

          But you don't get around the other. With a monitor. laughing Well, I have all the work in the computer. The chief accountant scolds that I do not count in "Excel". I print everything, and on a calculator in a column ... laughing
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 11 November 2020 21: 14
            +6
            But you don't get around the other.

            I don't get around, but I have freedom of choice, relative, of course. Photoshop, toys and reading materials, and then I can save and turn it off any minute. Things were different with the chest. smile
          2. bubalik
            bubalik 11 November 2020 21: 29
            +7
            But you don't get around the other. With monitor
            wassat good
            I print everything, and on the calculator
            ,,, yeah, are not lying around in the table? laughing
            1. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 12 November 2020 09: 33
              +3
              ,,, yeah, are not lying around in the table?

              nope, I'm not that old. laughing on paper, it's easy to count more clearly. drinks
              1. Lexus
                Lexus 12 November 2020 18: 04
                +2
                no, I'm not that old


          3. Undecim
            Undecim 12 November 2020 22: 38
            +5
            The chief accountant scolds that I do not count in "Excel".
            So it is not necessary to count in him, he himself counts !!! He only needs the formula he needs in the cell to score !!!
  • depressant
    depressant 11 November 2020 16: 17
    +8
    You are Misha, right? Nice to meet you! love
    ))))
    All you say is right.
    Here was a short series.
    I looked at TV-3 (when I was still watching TV). About ancient Russia. A small guard fortress in the forest, surrounded by a palisade. An old man, a boy, a mighty blacksmith, his sister, warriors. A bogatyr comes to the fortress, events unfold. The actors are excellent, they inspire deep trust by their natural acting, the characters are smart, strong, attractive with special Russian kindness and dedication - I forgot! You see, I forgot what the show was called. But I remember very well how annoyed I was, why the episodes are short, why there are so few of them, and why the events were given incoherently, in the form of chronicles with the designation of the time and place of action. And I kept thinking about what a great full-length film would have turned out with such a plot and such actors. And he is clearly low-budget, the decorations are such that they did not require special investments.
    But they are actively making a movie about our history, such that, looking at the screen, I feel antipathy to the heroes. And all because our people are presented as stupid, narrow-minded carriers of some kind of character trait, but in general - a word denoting an unwise person, prohibited by the rules of the site.
    And in the "Magnificent Age", the Turks gave even minor characters a deep inner peace, charisma and history. That's how you need to love your people!
    But this - yes, as you said, not about our cinema.
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 11 November 2020 18: 51
    +6
    Mikhail, I have a question. And what did Zvyagintsev not please you with?
    1. Trilobite Master
      Trilobite Master 11 November 2020 19: 24
      +8
      I have already expressed my opinion about the work of Zvyagintsev on this resource. He is undoubtedly a talented person, but his ability to pile up all human garbage and dump it on the heads of the audience in such a way as if all this is our normal everyday life, as if in our country everyone and everywhere live like this, that such relations of people are friend a friend and with the state with us is the norm, a familiar and everyday thing ...
      Everything that Zvyagintsev is so fond of showing exists, of course, but not like that, not in such quantity and is perceived by people as something outrageous, and not familiar.
      He turns out talented, imaginative, voluminous and disgusting lampoons on the country, on people, on all of us, and over and over again with enviable constancy.
      That's why I don't love him.
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 11 November 2020 20: 37
        +4
        He turns out talented, imaginative, voluminous and disgusting lampoons on the country, on people, on all of us, and over and over again with enviable constancy.
        OK. Why is Dostoevsky better?
        1. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 11 November 2020 20: 45
          +5
          And I never said that he was good. Dostoevsky, Saltykov-Shchedrin, Gogol, Zoshchenko, Kuprin, Bunin, and some more there ... ah, I also remembered Nabokov - I do not love, although each is different. Maybe in life I have too much abomination, rot and other things like that, I don't know. But in art, I can bear them with great difficulty and try to avoid them.
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 11 November 2020 20: 54
            +3
            Paragraph. And who is good, from this galaxy?
            1. Trilobite Master
              Trilobite Master 11 November 2020 22: 24
              +4
              Pushkin, Lermontov, Tolstoy, I love Sholokhov very much ... Less - Paustovsky and Prishvin. Chekhov is not very good for me either ... I perceive Turgenev normally. Who else have you forgotten? smile
            2. depressant
              depressant 11 November 2020 22: 33
              +6
              As always, Bulgakov, hehe))))
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 11 November 2020 08: 52
    +7
    Good morning, colleagues. Today at least there is something to read, but yesterday was:, "fresh catch" from fish "second freshness."
    Seriously, maybe it makes sense for admins to repeat previous publications, but with a subtitle: "see our archives"
    1. depressant
      depressant 11 November 2020 11: 59
      +9
      Good morning Astra! )))
      And I, already realizing that I was reading the chronicle, not without benefit to myself, absorbed an article about the visit of the Americans to the Moon. And she made a discovery of paramount importance for herself: about how complex technologies, as well as design, engineering and, in general, production schools are lost, perished and become irreproducible. I knew about this before, but the author found words that shocked me. The human factor as an indispensable part of any technology. Experience, its transfer from generation to generation, preservation of full-cycle production - I did not attach any importance to this. Well, of course, I thought, there are drawings. Von Braun is not there, the Queen is not, there are no pupils of their schools.
      Therefore, now people look at the giant plates of Baalbek and say, they say, not otherwise, the aliens did it.
      1. Astra wild2
        Astra wild2 11 November 2020 14: 24
        +8
        Lyudmila Yakovlevna, more than an hour could not enter the site, knocked out "error", and then "comments on this article are prohibited"
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 11 November 2020 15: 14
          +7
          Good afternoon, Vera. hi
          It wasn't you alone, I had the same problem.
      2. Astra wild2
        Astra wild2 11 November 2020 14: 32
        +5
        Phew, it broke. You can't argue about the "human factor".
        But I will refrain from evaluating Roskosmos: not everything is clear
        1. Phil77
          Phil77 11 November 2020 18: 36
          +6
          Quote: Astra wild2
          But I will refrain from evaluating Roskosmos: not everything is clear

          Oh yeah!!! belay
          1. Lexus
            Lexus 12 November 2020 05: 17
            +4
            Sergei hi , Sawing-up space after a series of "stains" simply "ascended".

  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 11 November 2020 09: 02
    +9
    Valery, thank you for your continued good material. At lunch we will read and discuss
  • Daniil Konovalenko
    Daniil Konovalenko 11 November 2020 09: 34
    11
    And what, quite normal palace life, with an oriental flavor: strangulation, poisoning, drowning .. smile
  • Trilobite Master
    Trilobite Master 11 November 2020 11: 37
    11
    These rooms are called "kefes" or "cafe" (literal translation - "cage"). After Sultan Ahmed I, keeping "superfluous" shehzade in cafes became a tradition. And Turkish sources claim that many of these captives went crazy, or became alcoholics and drug addicts.

    Still, the sultans could not resist on the path of courageous brutality, gloomy fatalism and naive and honest cruelty. Slid to the ideals of the pampered European humanism, which, as you know, boys of puberty age in toilets are engaged. No, colleagues, whatever you want, but the general distribution of silk laces in the palace after the accession of the next monarch is somehow more honest and, by and large, more humane.
    When all the participants in the political process know its rules, they know how everything will end for most of them - everything is fair, once and ready, good memory, bright sadness and everything is according to the law, there are no villains or victims, this is the will of Allah. But to lock relatives in a cage, day after day watching them gradually turn into animals - here you need a special kind of cruelty, some kind of directly perverted.
    The moralists who reproach the Turks for their inhumanity would like to remind you that the same thing happened at that time everywhere in civilized states. It's just that the Christian rulers, for obvious reasons, had fewer official, legitimate children (although the debauchery is no less, and here the Turks turned out to be more honest), but due to the fact that the murders of princes of the royal blood were officially prohibited, that is, in reality, they are associated with certain difficulties in the form of numerous formalities, each prince had a chance to commit his sedition, draw up his own conspiracy, and even an endless number of attempts were given for this. smile
    In short, in the Ottoman Empire everything was somehow more open and honest - from the process of conceiving heirs and ending with the final process of regulating their numbers, during which "only one should remain."
    Thanks to the author, as always. I would like each article to contain more references in the style "and at this time in Europe" or "in Russia", so the era appears before our eyes more clearly, perhaps ...
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 11 November 2020 12: 28
      +9
      Well, our tsars also indulged in sending those who disliked them to monasteries, log cabins and jails, including using pious tonsure, not shying away from burning their eyes out. Although the initial case of Vasilko was widely rejected. But times and mores, with Vasily the Dark already a different flavor, approach and result! The result is significant, the person “lost” to the state interests, albeit to the clique of Moscow boyars, but all the same, the “general” came to be of paramount importance than personal. The people can put him in quotation marks, forgive the unfortunate prince everything that could be forgiven. It's amazing how the Moscow principality was not merged, and after all, according to anyone, everything should have collapsed, but it did not collapse, it got stronger and the flywheel rolled further! It still rolls, shitty but jumps along the hills and valleys of modern history!
      1. VLR
        11 November 2020 12: 33
        11
        Minich is credited with such words: "Russia is ruled directly by the Lord God. Otherwise, it is impossible to imagine how this state still exists."
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 11 November 2020 12: 52
          +8
          In some ways you are right!
          Peter the First, however, still drove his bribe-takers with a log, also a method !!!
          However, many of his distinguished contemporaries did not dodge. For example, Gagarin!
          In fact, this is how we live from king to king, leader to leader, leader to leader, and in truth you will think about God's thought !!!
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 11 November 2020 14: 28
            +9
            Hello Vladislav! smile
            Something in the current state of Mother Russia no "Divine Providence" is visible. request
            1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 11 November 2020 14: 47
              10
              Quote: Sea Cat
              Hello Vladislav! smile
              Something in the current state of Mother Russia no "Divine Providence" is visible. request

              Duc in the Constitution - they remembered God, now it is necessary to be baptized strengthened!
              However, Uncle Kostya, what did you want from a resident -
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 11 November 2020 15: 10
                10
                Not every city can boast of such "advertising". smile good
              2. Astra wild2
                Astra wild2 11 November 2020 18: 29
                +8
                I never thought to be officially: "city of demons". Do you know why this is so? Perhaps there are immigrant demons living there? When there was the Inquisition in Europe, they hid everywhere, perhaps, they fled there too?
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 11 November 2020 18: 54
                  +7
                  "When the Inquisition was in Europe," Yekaterinburg did not exist yet. request
                  1. Astra wild2
                    Astra wild2 11 November 2020 19: 45
                    +5
                    So these are demons. They could live happily in the forest, and a city appeared and some of the demons moved to the city
                    1. Catfish
                      Catfish 11 November 2020 20: 11
                      +6
                      Well, about demons, a woman, of course, knows better. smile
                      1. Phil77
                        Phil77 11 November 2020 20: 14
                        +7
                        Quote: Sea Cat
                        a woman, of course, knows better.

                        Oh, and I doubt it, however!
                      2. Catfish
                        Catfish 11 November 2020 20: 17
                        +9
                        There is no need to doubt the proven truth more than once. laughing
              3. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                Kote Pan Kokhanka 11 November 2020 19: 00
                10
                Everything is simpler, the city rebelled against the proposal to build a Temple in the park near the Drama Theater, with a couple of business and shopping centers !!! The Russian Orthodox Church was offended, Mr. Soloviev on the air of Channel 2, and gave it out! "City of Demons", licking from the Russian Orthodox Church performed in metal. The blessing of the person is established and punished !!! ROC in order to whitewash itself loved ones had to spend money on dismantling and a couple of stellas with a refutation!
                Fucked !!!
                1. vladcub
                  vladcub 11 November 2020 21: 35
                  +6
                  Glory to the Lord, otherwise I thought because of the Yeltsin Center nickname.
                  By God, you are unlucky: now the name of Sverdlov, now the center of the chief devil. They set the little boys to praise their godfather
                2. Jünger
                  Jünger 12 November 2020 16: 59
                  +2
                  Yes, the city did not revolt anywhere, I have two nephews living in Eburg - unbelievers. They are completely purple - there will be a park or a church.
                  A bunch of crazy buzzies who have nothing to do, the main thing is to moan the authorities and the church. Of these, a fair chunk of newcomers.
              4. Phil77
                Phil77 11 November 2020 19: 00
                +6
                Quote: Astra wild2
                "Do you know why this is so? Perhaps there are immigrant demons living there?"

                For this I must say thanks to a certain V. Solovyov / observer ????? TV /. This is how he designated the residents of Yekaterinburg. Do you remember the scandal over the church?
                1. Astra wild2
                  Astra wild2 11 November 2020 19: 55
                  +6
                  Quote: Phil77
                  Quote: Astra wild2
                  "Do you know why this is so? Perhaps there are immigrant demons living there?"

                  For this I must say thanks to a certain V. Solovyov / observer ????? TV /. This is how he designated the residents of Yekaterinburg. Do you remember the scandal over the church?

                  I'm not interested in Solovyov. I do not like him. And my rule is: do not introduce other people's men (if possible, and if it happens ..)
                  1. Phil77
                    Phil77 11 November 2020 20: 10
                    +7
                    Quote: Astra wild2
                    I'm not interested in Solovyov. I do not like him. And my rule is: do not introduce other people's men (if possible, and if it happens ..)

                    Vera, a beautiful stranger!
                    Here's a good word, but sometimes I just don't understand you! You asked, I answered. And what does it mean, like it or not? confirmed this information. More detailed, and not concise, like me. Answer-question.
                    Blitz: Regarding some * strange men *, forgive me generously, but I did not understand you at all. belay
            2. Phil77
              Phil77 11 November 2020 18: 45
              +7
              Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
              from a resident -

              It was, it is, or is it vice versa?
          2. Phil77
            Phil77 11 November 2020 18: 40
            +7
            Quote: Sea Cat
            "Divine Providence"

            Good evening Konstantin!
            In the current state, you will involuntarily think about someone else ... fishing. And not only in Russia.
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 11 November 2020 18: 47
              +8
              Hello, Sergey!
              You, by chance, did not mean this comrade?
              1. Phil77
                Phil77 11 November 2020 18: 53
                +6
                Him, his horned.
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 11 November 2020 18: 56
                  +7
                  "Sprinkle the room!" (C)
                  1. Phil77
                    Phil77 11 November 2020 19: 08
                    +8
                    Quote: Sea Cat
                    "Sprinkle the room!" (C)

                    1. Catfish
                      Catfish 11 November 2020 19: 20
                      +8
                      What for? I don't see the point.
                    2. Lexus
                      Lexus 12 November 2020 05: 07
                      +6
                      The best calendar is a gun and lots of patrons. Then there are options.

      2. kalibr
        kalibr 11 November 2020 14: 28
        +7
        Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
        In fact, this is how we live from king to king, leader to leader, leader to leader, and in truth you will think about God's thought !!!

        This is not a craft, but a patriarchal culture ... Aksakov-Slavophile, what did he write about the Russian people? That he expresses his opinion about power, but does not want to rule himself and is ready to submit even to an impostor, if only he would remove the burden of power from him. By the way, patriarchal cultures are the most durable ...
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 11 November 2020 15: 09
          +9
          Vyacheslav Olegovich, although I am Orthodox, I am a gamayun. We consider ourselves Russians, but we do not bow to the authorities. Poverty is for us the lot of picnics. The right gamayun and the house will celebrate and feed the family, moreover, with his own hands, with his head.
          I know from myself when I started building a house. The whole street was poured into the foundation. He started the business that was right and right, he was not afraid to get his hands dirty. Then they already helped with advice. How to shoot the roof. Tie the cage, put the timber.
          But on the first day, when I, with five hired workers, my father-in-law and my mother, began to dig a pit, and ended up with 25 neighbors, I myself was in prostration. People came up after work. They threw off their clothes, took shovels and plowed. The foundation was brought under the screed to zero in 18 hours! The only thing I tried to feed and drink to everyone, here many thanks to my mother-in-law, wife and mother! From 18:00 they realized that they began to steam and cook. At one o'clock in the morning, the tables were set right at the formwork! Many refused, but ... it was strong!
          Then I fought myself for 15 years. But he did not run from the council, he asked and helped. Like me later, to my neighbors with advice, hands and tools.


          So the power is far away, and the piece of bread and butter is in your hands. True, you have to earn it!
          1. kalibr
            kalibr 11 November 2020 17: 06
            +7
            Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
            True, you have to earn it!

            Firstly, I said that there is a lot of good in the patriarchal consciousness and you only confirmed this with your story. Secondly, I also never lived on one salary and always strived to do more than others. But in general, alas, the patriarchal consciousness of the majority is bad. Especially when it doesn't fit the time. I liked your house very much!
            1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 11 November 2020 19: 03
              +6
              There are no good photos, I accidentally found it on my phone.
              According to the patriarchal way, poison and oil are determined by the dose!
              1. Pane Kohanku
                Pane Kohanku 11 November 2020 20: 36
                +6
                According to the patriarchal way, poison and oil are determined by the dose!

                "You are our unclean ..." (a certain Mauritius) laughing drinks
  • kalibr
    kalibr 11 November 2020 14: 31
    +7
    Quote: Trilobite Master
    In short, in the Ottoman Empire everything was somehow more open and honest - from the process of conceiving heirs and ending with the final process of regulating their numbers, during which "only one should remain."

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++
    1. Astra wild2
      Astra wild2 11 November 2020 17: 05
      +5
      Vyacheslav Olegovich, get well soon, otherwise it is difficult for Valery alone.
      "Fish of the second freshness" does not appeal to me. You and Valery spoiled me
      1. kalibr
        kalibr 11 November 2020 17: 17
        +7
        Dear Astra! In fact, I recovered. But the weakness is such that I can't work long hours. I have now written THREE articles: one about the Westley Richards and Frederick Prinz carbines, one about the Savage revolver, and one about "memories" of how I mastered historical science. So, probably, the administration is about to post them. By the way, on the author.today website I have published an interesting book for girls "About Masha and Dasha". Reading aloud to her granddaughters 4-5 years old is the very thing ...
        1. vladcub
          vladcub 11 November 2020 20: 08
          +7
          V.O. remains true to himself: he offers his books to everyone, like a peddler.
          Said about the peddler and let's fantasize. Walks around the V.O. fair and beckons
          - Honorable public, and here is a new composition by Mr. Shpakovsky. Grab it, read it.
          Don't be offended by a friendly joke
          1. kalibr
            kalibr 11 November 2020 21: 49
            +6
            You see, Svyatoslav, you are offered a good product, they are showing concern. Do you think the money that I get for it is so important to me? No, I already receive royalties for those already published, of which, by the way, there are many. But in old age, it is a pity to see the house. R. and. the ignorant people who, having the opportunity to learn more and enjoy literally for a pittance, prefer to remain in ignorance. This is not clear to me!
            1. Astra wild2
              Astra wild2 12 November 2020 08: 59
              +2
              Vyacheslav Olegovich, bravo, answered well
            2. vladcub
              vladcub 12 November 2020 15: 59
              +2
              You reassured me, otherwise I was worried that you were short of funds.
              1. kalibr
                kalibr 12 November 2020 17: 15
                +1
                Quote: vladcub
                You reassured me, otherwise I was worried that you were short of funds.

                Svyatoslav! I will tell you the secret. SHE IS WITH ME CONSTANTLY. How much do not give me - EVERYTHING IS SMALL!
                1. vladcub
                  vladcub 12 November 2020 17: 53
                  +1
                  Q. Oh, I readily believe. First, money is like water: it flows through your fingers.
                  Secondly, this is the only way with current prices.
                  Thirdly, you have an adult daughter, and your parents always remain parents: it is difficult for Anya or Valya now, but we are somehow
                  1. kalibr
                    kalibr 12 November 2020 18: 11
                    0
                    Quote: vladcub
                    Thirdly, you have an adult daughter, and your parents always remain parents: it is difficult for Anya or Valya now, but we are somehow

                    Well, you know, my daughter is married and does not receive a dime from me. Enough! Children should be pampered in their youth, and by 45 they should already please their parents.
        2. Astra wild2
          Astra wild2 11 November 2020 20: 18
          +5
          When I was little, my mother read me Afanasyev's tales, and I bought Greek myths for a friend. , We read together, she is already "grown up": September 1 will go to school. So, perhaps other grandmothers will read to their granddaughters, but I no longer
      2. Phil77
        Phil77 11 November 2020 20: 31
        +4
        Quote: Astra wild2
        "fish of the second freshness"

        Primary source !!!!!!

        am
        1. Astra wild2
          Astra wild2 12 November 2020 09: 00
          +1
          Thank you for the information
  • iskanderzp
    iskanderzp 11 November 2020 15: 22
    +2
    Valery! Thank you for continuing the interesting cycle. As for the purity of the blood of the Turkish sultans, they, EMNIP, were forbidden to marry their subjects. Only for foreign women. So, the Turks were ruled, to put it mildly, not quite by the Turks: the sons of slaves from all over the world, with each generation more and more thinning the Ottoman blood ...)))
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 11 November 2020 16: 58
    +5
    Valery, thank you for the material. We drank it together with coffee: one reads, while the others drink and take turns ..
    How many sources were reviewed before the material came out!

    /
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 11 November 2020 18: 40
    +3
    Mehmed 3 executed 19 brothers, and what was his nickname? Selim has the nickname "Yavuz", but Mehmed is probably even bigger?
  • vladcub
    vladcub 11 November 2020 19: 22
    +5
    Thank you very much to Valery. Otherwise, lockdown, then "history of M.2016" ._
    "listening to the pleas of one of the younger brothers", probably, the sultan personally supervised the execution of his order?
  • vladcub
    vladcub 11 November 2020 19: 35
    +6
    So tell me that "social elevators" did not exist: Piyale Pasha was from the ditch, and Kylych was a slave to the galleries. Looks like they had a mighty guardian angel
  • Phil77
    Phil77 11 November 2020 20: 27
    +4
    Quote: vladcub
    Don't be offended by a friendly joke

    Pricked !!!!!! wink laughing