Military Review

IS armor against the German 88-mm cannon. A perfect success story

105

Tanks IS-2 of the 74th self-propelled heavy tank regiment next to the tank park built in Gustrow. Source: waralbum.ru


Armor wins


Among all the variety of defense technologies of the Soviet Union during the Great Patriotic War, armored production was particularly progressive. IN previous section stories it was about a fairly rapid growth in the capabilities of domestic defense metallurgy in the pre-war period.

Having created the 8C high-hardness armor, the Soviet industry in one leap reduced the planned lag behind world trends. As you know, not all tank factories managed to comply with the difficult conditions for melting and hardening such armor, which negatively affected the quality of the T-34. But, nevertheless, in most cases, the 8C armor met the requirements for medium tanks of the Second World War.

Unfortunately, this could not be said when applied to heavy tanks of the KV series. The tactical characteristics of the KV armored hull with an armor thickness of 75 mm showed its satisfactory resistance only to 37-mm shells of German artillery. Under fire from 50-mm shells, a heavy domestic tank made its way from the nose with sub-caliber shells, and armor-piercing shells from the sides and stern.

By 1943, a situation arose when the Red Army actually did not have a heavy tank capable of withstanding most of the German artillery. And already, when the Germans had 88-mm versions of the anti-aircraft gun on their tanks and anti-tank self-propelled guns, the situation became completely critical. Medium hardness armor of grades 49C and 42C for KV was decidedly unable to cope with enemy shells. If with the T-34 there were attempts at additional shielding, in particular at the Krasnoye Sormovo plant, then it was already impossible to save the KV - a fundamentally new armor was needed.


Burning tanks of the Kursk Bulge. Source: waralbum.ru

TsNII-48 or Armored Institute played a key role in the development of domestic armor in the pre-war period and during the Great Patriotic War. It was founded in 1939 by metal scientist Andrei Sergeevich Zavyalov and made an enormous contribution to the evolution of domestic tank building.

However, even before the opening of TsNII-48, intense scientific and practical work was going on in the field of military steels. So, at the Magnitogorsk Metallurgical Combine "Special Bureau" appeared in 1932. Among the main tasks of the bureau was the analysis of experimental heats, the study of the temperature regime of quenching and tempering steels for the army. It was in the Magnitogorsk bureau that the key parts for the Katyusha rocket launcher were manufactured.


Magnitogorsk Metallurgical Combine. 1945 year. Source: velikaya_otechestvennaya_voyna.academic.ru

After the bureau received the official status of "armored" in August 1941, the personal files of all employees were classified. For example, there is still no way to trace the fate of the engineer K.K.Neyland, one of the developers of tank armor.
Why is there such an emphasis on the Magnitogorsk Combine? Because it was here in 1943 that many months of work was going on to develop new armor for IS tanks, but more on that later.

The importance of Magnitogorsk is evidenced by the fact that the plant smelted armor for every second Soviet tank of the war period. At the same time, before the war, local metallurgists did not specialize in armor at all. In the pre-war assortment there were only high-quality and purely peaceful carbon steels. The plant did not have "sour" open-hearth furnaces (specific for 8C armor) and there was not a single steelmaker who would work on "sour" furnaces.

With the beginning of the war, the plant was instructed to urgently organize the production of armor. Metallurgists, with the help of TsNII-48 employees who arrived from the Izhora plant, quickly mastered the smelting of armor steel in 150-, 185- and 300-ton main open-hearth furnaces, which has not been done anywhere in the world. During the four years of the war, metallurgists from Magnitogorsk mastered 100 new grades of steel for the military industry, and also brought the share of high-quality and alloy steels in the total smelting to 83%.

The plant was constantly expanding - during the construction, 2 blast furnaces and 5 open-hearth furnaces, 2 rolling mills, 4 coke oven batteries, 2 sintering tapes and several new shops were commissioned. On July 28, 1941, for the first time in the world, an armor plate was rolled on a blooming mill, which was not originally intended for this purpose.

In the difficult time of the first months of the war, it was the Magnitogorsk Metallurgical Plant that managed to cope with the government's task of organizing armored production two months earlier. It was truly a feat, considering how often Soviet factories thwarted production plans in 1941. Therefore, it was in Magnitogorsk that the largest armored camp in the country came from the evacuated Mariupol Ilyich Armored Plant in the fall. This apparatus was much better suited for the production of rolled armor than civil blooming. Given the successful experience in the field of armored production, it was to Magnitogorsk in 1943 that TsNII-48 specialists headed by A.S. Zavyalov were sent to create new armor for the IS series tanks and heavy self-propelled guns.

Solid armor for heavy tanks


The head of the Armored Institute Zavyalov recalled the time he spent in Magnitogorsk:

“That was work. We slept on tables in the "armored bureau", overgrown with stubble to the very eyes ... Apparently, we were still quite good experimenters. And then they understood what would happen if the front was left without heavy tanks. But he didn't stay. "


The initial topic of the work was the cast armor for the IS-2 tank, which was supposed to withstand the German large-caliber artillery 75-88 mm. To simplify the production of the tank, up to 60% of its nodes were cast, and cast armor was initially worse than katana. It was decided to create high hardness armor, which was later named 70L. Experimental plates were fired by a German 88-mm anti-aircraft gun with a sharp-headed armor-piercing heterogeneous projectile. It turned out that 100-mm high-hardness armor for the IS-2 is as strong as rolled medium-hard armor 110 mm thick. It is not difficult to assess how much this simplified the technical production process and lightened the tank hull.


Tank IS-2 overcomes concrete anti-tank "hedgehogs". East Prussia, 3rd Belorussian Front, January 1945 Source: waralbum.ru

The shelling of the experimental towers, made according to the developed technology by the casting method in thicknesses of 100-120 mm, was carried out already from the domestic anti-aircraft gun 52-K, caliber 85 mm. As stated in one of TsNII-48 reports:

“As a result of shelling, the tower on the starboard side was hit by 12 armor-piercing shells with a high accuracy of destruction, which did not lead to serious destruction. After the eleventh and, especially, the twelfth lesion (at a distance of no more than 1,5 calibers from the tenth and the edge), an exit to the edge, the development of a crack between the lesions and the formation of irregular holes were obtained. In the process of further tests when firing the left side and stern of the tower with armor-piercing 88-mm shells (17 shots in total), all the damage was viscous (14 dents, two through damage, one hole with a sub-caliber projectile), cracks did not develop when the starboard was hit. "


Subsequently, samples of 70L cast armor with a thickness of up to 135-mm were obtained, numerous fire tests of which with 85-mm domestic shells (German, obviously, were no longer enough) confirmed the correctness of the chosen development path. When the design angles of the parts are less than 60 degrees to the horizon, the high-hardness cast armor made of 70L steel in terms of armor resistance becomes equivalent to rolled armor of the same thickness.

But not everything was so rosy. When researchers fired high-hardness armor with 105-mm shells (sharp-headed armor-piercing) and compared it with similar armor of medium hardness, it turned out that the new armor was inferior to the classical one at all angles of encounter with ammunition. The enemy's 105-mm calibers were not prevalent on the battlefield, so this shortcoming did not make a decisive difference in choosing the type of new armor protection for tanks.

The disadvantages include the relatively low survivability of high-hardness armor compared to medium-hard armor - after all, hard armor was more prone to cracking during massive shelling. But the manufacture of high hardness armor by casting increased the survivability of steel relative to the armor of medium hardness. This was due to the absence of delamination in the metal and the greater rigidity of the structure of the hull and turret parts. Maneuvering between such conflicting parameters, TsNII-48 specialists, together with the metallurgists of Magnitogorsk, nevertheless brought to mind the 70L armor and recommended it for cast elements (first of all, towers) of heavy tanks and self-propelled guns.
Chemical composition (%):
C 0,18 - 0,24
Mn 0,70 - 1,0
Si 1,20 - 1,60
Cr 1,0 - 1,5
Ni 2,74 - 3,25
Mo 0,20 - 0,30
P ≤0,035
S ≤0,030.


IS-2 tanks and their crews from the 88th separate heavy tank regiment with a tank fleet built in German Gustrow. Source: waralbum.ru

In the historical series of the publication "Problems of Materials Science", prepared by researchers from the National Research Center "Kurchatov Institute" - Central Research Institute of KM "Prometey", describes the main technological process of heat treatment of the cast turrets of the IS-2 tank. In accordance with it, first of all, there was a high tempering at 670 ± 10 ° C with an exposure of 5 min per 1 mm of the maximum thickness section (used after removing the casting from the mold). Then, after mechanical treatment, quenching was done with heating at a temperature of 940 ± 10 ° C with holding at this temperature for 3–3,5 min per 1 mm of section, cooling in water (30–60 ° C) to 100–150 ° C. The next step is low tempering in nitrate or electric tempering furnaces with good circulation at 280-320 ° C. And finally, holding at the tempering temperature in nitrate baths for at least 4 min per 1 mm of cross-section, while tempering in furnaces, holding at least 6 min / mm.

As a result, modern armor for heavy tanks was created, allowing to fight on equal terms with the Nazi menagerie. In the future, the IS-3 will receive armor protection, which will not be afraid of a shot from the notorious 88-mm cannon in the forehead from 100 meters.

But this is a somewhat different story.

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  1. polpot
    polpot 12 November 2020 18: 05
    37
    Thank you, very interesting, we look forward to continuing.
    1. Lexus
      Lexus 12 November 2020 18: 23
      25
      Not only the Soviet armor was better, but the angles of its inclination, which increase the thickness of the normal upon impact and the likelihood of a ricochet, played an important role. It is very cool that the Nazis experienced an acute need for hard alloys and alloying additives throughout the war, and with the liberation of Soviet Ukraine, they completely disappeared. Many thanks to the Author for covering this topic! I will be glad to see the sequel.
      1. Snail N9
        Snail N9 12 November 2020 20: 49
        -57 qualifying.
        Only where were these IS-3s .... with their "super-armor" ... Pershavin in his series of books "St. John's Hunters ..." very well describes what, in fact, our tanks cost, and self-propelled guns on the battlefield ... in real conditions, and not on training grounds and not on "paper" ...
        1. Kostya Lavinyukov
          Kostya Lavinyukov 12 November 2020 22: 30
          +8
          And what, in the author's opinion, were they worth?
        2. nnm
          nnm 12 November 2020 23: 54
          34
          Probably, colleague, you were referring to PershaNin, the author of ART books?
          The one who still likes to write in the genre of alternative history, are you serious, colleague?
          1. DED_peer_DED
            DED_peer_DED 14 November 2020 21: 58
            0
            Lexus was sold. I don't want to believe, but ...
        3. Petrik66
          Petrik66 13 November 2020 11: 13
          10
          IS 3 appeared after the war. In reality, ISU 152 operated optimally from an ambush, and going into an open field with its separate loading and with 90/60 armor opposite the Tiger or Panther was a direct violation of the position on combat use. "St. John's wort" was used as an anti-tank system forcibly until the specialized Isu 122, su 85 and su 100 appeared. This is not a wunderwafe, but a worthy assault system.
        4. The comment was deleted.
        5. Monar
          Monar 14 November 2020 06: 11
          +4
          IS-3 in real conditions? And you can read more here. Well, at least the number of the unit that fought on the fronts of the Second World War.
          1. DED_peer_DED
            DED_peer_DED 14 November 2020 21: 59
            0
            Quote: Monar
            Well, at least the part number

            Korea.
            1. mat-vey
              mat-vey 15 November 2020 05: 25
              0
              Quote: DED_peer_DED
              Quote: Monar
              Well, at least the part number

              Korea.

              And that Korea participated in WWII, or at least WWII?
            2. Monar
              Monar 15 November 2020 18: 10
              +1
              What? Didn't you confuse anything? There is no such part number as "Korea". From the word at all.
              Well, let's talk about the IS-3 in Korea. Enlighten.
        6. Mister X
          Mister X 14 November 2020 14: 37
          +2
          Quote: Snail N9
          Just where were these IS-3s .... with their "super-armor"

          At that time, the IS-3 was in development.
          The first batch of experienced IS-3s left the factory workshops in May 1945.
          And on September 7, 1945, they reached Berlin, and participated in the military parade of the winners.
          Pershavin does not indicate this?


      2. svp67
        svp67 14 November 2020 18: 06
        +5
        Quote: lexus
        Not only the Soviet armor was better, but also the angles of its inclination,

        Yes, everything is simple for the author, but this is not at all the case. The KV armor was better, due to the fact that it was ROLLED, but we had problems with it during the war years ... after the loss of the largest metallurgical centers in Ukraine, the USSR did not manage to establish its mass production to satisfy all the needs for such armor. It is worth taking into account the increase in the production of the T-34, as well as all possible self-propelled guns .. And in the Urals they knew how to produce excellent casting, so they took advantage of this. But again, everything was not so simple, the first ISs were penetrated by German anti-tank guns and tanks, and all from the fact that they had a "broken nose"

        , as on KV,

        he was very helpful to the mechanic in controlling the tank, as he increased the visibility, but reduced the armor resistance, and only with the transition to the "straightened"

        the nose managed to achieve good armor resistance of the IS-2 ... But I assure you that if the nose of the KV had been "straightened" in the same way, it would have been possible to increase the armor resistance on it too
      3. Alexey Polyutkin
        Alexey Polyutkin 20 November 2020 13: 23
        0
        The Germans knew about riyukoshets and the slope of the armor. In a square case, they thought it was better to use volume
  2. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 12 November 2020 18: 19
    10
    I join the previous commentator. A very interesting and informative article. We are waiting for the continuation.
  3. your1970
    your1970 12 November 2020 18: 29
    +1
    Shooting from our 85mm is not entirely correct, more precisely, it is completely incorrect .. The probability of getting under fire from it in battle - but scanty ...
    88mm still significantly exceeded
    1. CTABEP
      CTABEP 12 November 2020 19: 47
      13
      In the absence of a stamp, we write in simple. There were no other options, as I understand it, then to try out the armor.
    2. Ded_Mazay
      Ded_Mazay 12 November 2020 20: 44
      -2
      Quote: your1970
      88mm still significantly exceeded

      What are you talking about? And you can ask what kind of 88mm do you mean that it "exceeded significantly"?
      Because, if my memory serves me right, the Germans had a whole zoo of those 8.8 cm ...
      1. Alf
        Alf 12 November 2020 21: 23
        +9
        Quote: Ded_Mazay
        the same 8.8 cm, the Germans had a whole zoo ...

        In fact, only 2 in 88 calibers and 56 in 88 calibers. The first was produced by the number of Tigers-71 pieces, the second was about 1354 thousand (PTO + tanks, self-propelled guns).
        1. Oleg Bykov
          Oleg Bykov 12 November 2020 21: 33
          +4
          So about the shelling of which 88 mm gun is described in the article? 56 calibers or 71? In order not to list bottles, packs and kvk.
          1. Alf
            Alf 12 November 2020 21: 35
            +6
            Quote: Oleg Bykov
            So about the shelling of which 88 mm gun is described in the article? L56 or L71? In order not to get confused in packs, kvk and vials?

            I think that after all, 56 calibers, as they say, were easier to get.
            1. Oleg Bykov
              Oleg Bykov 13 November 2020 00: 09
              +7
              That's just it, that 56 calibers ... Against 88 mm in 71 caliber and 75 mm in 70 caliber (KwK 42), the IS-3's forehead was already calculated.
        2. Xenofont
          Xenofont 12 November 2020 22: 11
          +2
          In addition to the 8,8cm Flak, there were Pak 43 and K 44 three modifications.
          1. Alf
            Alf 12 November 2020 22: 12
            +4
            Quote: Xenofont
            In addition to the 8,8cm Flak, there were Pak 43 and K 44 three modifications.

            Who cares ? Ballistics is only two-caliber, or 56 and 71 caliber.
            1. Xenofont
              Xenofont 12 November 2020 22: 16
              0
              Ballistics could be different, otherwise why fence new models of the K 44 type. There is little data on the latter, because they were already planned for 44-45 wafers.
              1. Alf
                Alf 12 November 2020 22: 32
                +5
                Quote: Xenofont
                Ballistics could be different, otherwise why fence new models of the K 44 type. There is little data on the latter, because they were already planned for 44-45 wafers.

                The shot is the same, the weapon itself is the same. Example. They produced PAK-43 and PAK-43/41, the only difference is in the gun carriage.
        3. Ded_Mazay
          Ded_Mazay 13 November 2020 10: 57
          0
          Quote: Alf
          In fact, only 2 in 88 calibers and 56 in 88 calibers. The first was produced by the number of Tigers-71 pieces, the second was about 1354 thousand (PTO + tanks, self-propelled guns).

          Yep ...
          Only here the most massive 88mm were not Pak / KwK 43 (L71) or KwK36 (L56), but the anti-aircraft Flak 18/36/37 of which the Germans managed to rivet more than 17 pieces. So they have a barrel length - the same 000 calibers. Only now they have armor penetration with Pzgr. 56 39m / 100grd. -90mm, while the KwK128 with the same Pzgr.36 has 39mm.
          1. Alf
            Alf 13 November 2020 21: 06
            -1
            Quote: Ded_Mazay
            Yep ...
            Only here the most massive 88mm were not Pak / KwK 43 (L71) or KwK36 (L56), but the anti-aircraft Flak 18/36/37 which the Germans managed to rivet more than 17 pieces.

            Yep ...
            But there is no data, but if you have, then, please, give how many of these 17000 fired at tanks, and how many were purely in the air defense.
            1. Ded_Mazay
              Ded_Mazay 14 November 2020 09: 18
              0
              Quote: Alf
              But there is no data, but if you have, then, please, give how many of these 17000 fired at tanks, and how many were purely in the air defense.

              Why do you need this data? Their presence or absence does not in any way negate the fact that since May 1940 the Germans used their Flaks against tanks and that they were riveted enough that the risk of meeting them was a reality.
              1. Oleg Bykov
                Oleg Bykov 14 November 2020 14: 18
                -2
                To the total number of manufactured 17 pieces, there should be amendments at least in terms of quantity on the Eastern Front, for a specific time (after the appearance of ISs) and specialization as a PTO. For example, in Poland, by the beginning of the war, there were good anti-tank missiles, but they were sealed in warehouses ...
              2. Alf
                Alf 14 November 2020 19: 43
                -1
                Quote: Ded_Mazay
                Why do you need this data? Their presence or absence does not in any way negate the fact that since May 1940 the Germans used their Flaks against tanks and that they were riveted enough that the risk of meeting them was a reality.

                Then, that the guns that were standing in the anti-aircraft support of the rear throughout the war did not shoot at the tanks, but you take them into account as anti-aircraft guns.
                At the risk of meeting. 1354 tigers were produced, what is the probability of a meeting between the Tiger and the T-34? The main enemy of our tanks throughout the war were Troikas, Fours, after 43-44 Hans self-propelled guns went massively.
      2. your1970
        your1970 12 November 2020 23: 05
        +1
        Quote: Ded_Mazay
        Because, if my memory serves me right, the Germans had a whole zoo of those 8.8 cm ...

        I'm talking about the principle that I think is the main thing in this matter - to test his weapons need enemy weapons. This is much more objective for industry, science and more useful for the army.
        1. English tarantas
          English tarantas 13 November 2020 00: 41
          +4
          So if you know the difference between two very similar things, then why can't you conduct an experiment with these data in mind? If 85 holds with a margin, then 88 will hold. And if you really need to, then the shelling of 88 was carried out, there is data, we consider.
          1. your1970
            your1970 13 November 2020 13: 24
            +1
            Quote: English tarantass
            if you know the difference between two very similar things, why can't you experiment with these data?

            You can, everything is possible ... The effectiveness of only such calculations - well, such ...

            For example, there was Stalin and there was Gorbachev, both with arms / legs / head, both members of the CPSU, the same positions, ... With all the similar signs, the effect of the work is strictly opposite ...
            1. English tarantas
              English tarantas 14 November 2020 06: 14
              +1
              Math is definitely not yours. And logic too
              1. your1970
                your1970 15 November 2020 00: 15
                0
                Quote: English Tarantas
                Math is definitely not yours. And logic too

                If you proceed from Your logic - you can shoot at a tank from a three-line and count to 8.8 ... and what is the weight of the projectile /, barrel length / weight of the charge / pressure in the barrel / burning rate and other characteristics .. Correlate with rifle ones ... Yeah .. ...

                85 mm and 8.8 cm - guns with different characteristics, very different ...
                Having a certain number of captured guns, it is more than strange to replace it with a domestic gun
        2. Ded_Mazay
          Ded_Mazay 13 November 2020 10: 37
          0
          Quote: your1970
          I'm talking about the principle that I think is the main one in this matter.

          The main thing in this matter is that the parameters of armor penetration at a given distance for the weapons and ammunition used are comparable.
          So the 52-K gun used for testing formed the basis of the tank D-5T, ZiS-S-53.
          The latter has armor penetration when using the BR-365K at a distance of 100 meters at a meeting angle of 90 - 126mm. Which is comparable to the performance of the German 8.8 cm FlaK 37 in the same conditions when using the Pzgr 39 - 128mm.
          But if we are talking about 8.8 cm KwK or Pak 43, then there is nothing to talk about at all, because there the armor penetration exceeds 230 mm, which is comparable to the 100mm D-10.
          1. Alf
            Alf 13 November 2020 21: 09
            +2
            Quote: Ded_Mazay
            The main thing in this matter is that the parameters of armor penetration at a given distance for the weapons and ammunition used are comparable.

            It is also desirable that the breakout calculation is the same. The fact is that in our anti-tank artillery it was believed that a projectile penetrates armor if it penetrates it in 90% of hits, while in German anti-tank artillery this percentage was taken equal to 60%, which slightly changes the results.
            1. mat-vey
              mat-vey 14 November 2020 11: 00
              +1
              Quote: Alf
              which changes the results somewhat.

              With a caliber of 122 mm, it is not necessary to pierce. It is possible and high-explosive, the main thing is to get there.
              1. Alf
                Alf 14 November 2020 19: 44
                +1
                Quote: mat-vey
                Quote: Alf
                which changes the results somewhat.

                With a caliber of 122 mm, it is not necessary to pierce. It is possible and high-explosive, the main thing is to get there.

                Yes, yes. As a rule, if you get hit, then get out, come.
                1. mat-vey
                  mat-vey 15 November 2020 05: 22
                  0
                  Quote: Alf
                  Yes, yes. As a rule, if you get hit, then get out, come.

                  This is if there is someone to climb out.
  4. Recoil
    Recoil 12 November 2020 18: 33
    +6
    Great article. Thank you very much. The last three photos are a rarity.
  5. Constanty
    Constanty 12 November 2020 18: 36
    +7
    By creating 8C high-hardness armor

    Steel 8C, even produced in peaceful conditions before the war, had a hardness below 400 on the Brinell scale. During the war, it reached a maximum of 320 points on the Brinell scale - therefore, it is difficult to talk about high-hardness steel.

    Unfortunately, this could not be said when applied to heavy tanks of the KV series. The tactical characteristics of the KV armored hull with an armor thickness of 75 mm showed its satisfactory resistance only to 37-mm shells of German artillery. Under fire from 50-mm shells, a heavy domestic tank made its way from the nose with sub-caliber shells, and armor-piercing shells from the sides and stern.


    I always read and was convinced that the KW-1 in the middle of the 41st was not defeated by German anti-tank artillery, and only the Flak 88 could penetrate its frontal armor, so the above was a big surprise for me, especially since the T-34 armor was easy. pierced by a bullet of the PAK38 sub-caliber - therefore, 8C steel did not matter here.
    1. figwam
      figwam 12 November 2020 20: 28
      +3
      The forehead was penetrated only by a sub-caliber projectile, and then at 90 °.
  6. Alien From
    Alien From 12 November 2020 18: 45
    +5
    Thanks to the author, I always read it with pleasure! But as usual, the author is intriguing .....)
  7. Thrifty
    Thrifty 12 November 2020 18: 49
    13
    For which I especially want to thank the author, it is for the technical data, for example, the same composition of the armor, and not just for the narration about this or that event! hi
  8. Virus-free crown
    Virus-free crown 12 November 2020 18: 53
    +3
    For the article, plus! drinks
    We look forward to continuing !!!
  9. Egoza
    Egoza 12 November 2020 19: 02
    +2
    Thank you for the article! How many interesting things the history of the Second World War keeps for us! There would only be someone to listen to and remember!
  10. Undecim
    Undecim 12 November 2020 19: 38
    23
    A very interesting series of articles.
    Therefore, it was in Magnitogorsk that the largest armored camp in the country came from the evacuated Mariupol Ilyich Armored Plant in the fall. This apparatus was much better suited for the production of rolled armor than civilian blooming.
    This moment is so interesting that it deserves a separate article.
    Neither before nor after that no one rolled sheet metal on blooming mills. Blooming is a blanking, blooming mill. Rolls a square billet for long products.
    This solution was unique and made it possible to provide the production of hulls with armor plate before the commissioning of the 4500 plate mill evacuated from Mariupol.
    By the way, the irony of fate. Stan-4500, which provided armor for the production of Soviet tanks, was designed and manufactured in 1912 by the German company DEMAG, and in 1914 it was put into operation at a metallurgical plant in Mariupol. The design capacity of the unit is 115 thousand tons per year.
    This mill has been operating at MMK today, for more than a hundred years.
    1. Aviator_
      Aviator_ 12 November 2020 19: 53
      +6
      I read that the preparation of the Mariupol plant for evacuation began at the end of June 1941, its equipment was so unique. The article is undoubtedly a plus.
      1. Captain Pushkin
        Captain Pushkin 12 November 2020 20: 21
        +7
        Quote: Aviator_
        preparation of the Mariupol plant for evacuation began at the end of June 1941

        The evacuation plan for industrial enterprises was developed even before the war. Where, what and where.
        In many ways, the very possibility of developing such plans became possible after gaining experience in dismantling factories in the United States and transferring them to the USSR.
        1. Aviator_
          Aviator_ 12 November 2020 20: 50
          +3
          This is not a plan. Of course, the plan was drawn up in advance. It's about preparing for the evacuation, and at a time when even Minsk had not yet passed (it seems that the meeting was on June 24).
          1. Captain Pushkin
            Captain Pushkin 12 November 2020 21: 47
            0
            Quote: Aviator_
            Of course, the plan was drawn up in advance. It's about preparing for the evacuation, and at a time when even Minsk had not yet passed

            Here in the plan it was what, where and WHEN.
            1. Aviator_
              Aviator_ 12 November 2020 22: 38
              +4
              "When" is not in the plan. This is decided by the management based on current events.
              1. Captain Pushkin
                Captain Pushkin 12 November 2020 23: 17
                0
                Quote: Aviator_
                "When" is not in the plan.

                Can. It even has to be. The scale of the plan is such that "manual" control is impossible. A delay in the evacuation of one enterprise will cause a chain reaction of disrupting the timing of the evacuation of the rest. Everything is tied here, the number of cars, the throughput of the railway, the time of dismantling, etc.
                1. Aviator_
                  Aviator_ 13 November 2020 07: 58
                  +1
                  You say that the plan says "on the third day of the start of hostilities" regardless of the results of these actions?
                  1. Glory1974
                    Glory1974 13 November 2020 09: 35
                    +2
                    You say that the plan says "on the third day of the start of hostilities" regardless of the results of these actions?

                    Most likely, he means that "the evaution will begin on the D-day, which was determined at the meeting. And everything else went according to the previously approved plan." hi
                  2. Captain Pushkin
                    Captain Pushkin 13 November 2020 10: 39
                    0
                    I approve.
                    The evacuation work was supervised by the Council for Evacuation under the Council of People's Commissars of the USSR, created by order of J.V. Stalin on the third day of the war.
                    There is information that the export of a certain amount of industrial equipment and skilled workers to the eastern regions of the USSR took place even before the start of the war. In particular, the military attaché of the American embassy reported that a significant number of machine tools and personnel were sent from Moscow to the east in late 1940 and early 1941
                    According to some researchers, the rapid growth of industrial production at the beginning of 1942 can be explained precisely by the fact that the evacuation of industry began in 1940.
                    Where they acted according to pre-worked out plans, the result was positive.
                    Where there is a disaster by emergency orders.
                    For example, early. General Staff Zhukov composed long and obscure circulars, where it was necessary either to prepare for war, or not to succumb to provocations. It ended in defeat in a border battle.
                    People's Commissar of the Navy Kuznetsov - phoned the fleets on the phone to open the packages in case of emergency.
                    Acting according to a pre-approved plan, not a single fleet on the first day of the war lost ANY SHIP.
                    1. Alexey RA
                      Alexey RA 13 November 2020 15: 38
                      +3
                      Quote: Captain Pushkin
                      Acting according to a pre-approved plan, not a single fleet on the first day of the war lost ANY SHIP.

                      The ships that went out to sea on the first day of the war did not manage to reach the combat areas. But then it began - the KBF on the second day of the war, acting according to a pre-approved plan, lost EM "Wrathful" and lost for the time of the KRL "Maxim Gorky".
                    2. Aviator_
                      Aviator_ 13 November 2020 19: 48
                      0
                      People's Commissar of the Navy Kuznetsov - phoned the fleets on the phone to open the packages in case of emergency.

                      How long can you repeat this nonsense of Khrushchev's time?
                2. Alexey RA
                  Alexey RA 13 November 2020 14: 30
                  +3
                  Quote: Captain Pushkin
                  Can. It even has to be. The scale of the plan is such that "manual" control is impossible.

                  Not certainly in that way. Melia wrote that the first evacoplanes were based on the principle of automatic start of evacuation with the outbreak of war. But this led to a systematic overload of the railway and a shortage of wagons (which was critical given the need to mobilize and concentrate the army). Therefore, it was decided to split the evacuated territories into separate evacuation areas and make a decision on the evacuation of these areas, based on the current situation. That is, it was planned to carry out the evacuation "in manual mode", but not for individual enterprises, but for entire regions.
              2. ZEMCH
                ZEMCH 14 November 2020 00: 15
                0
                Quote: Aviator_
                "When" is not in the plan. This is decided by the management based on current events.

                In the mobilization plan 1938-39
                I. Name of the Mobplan for the development period and the time of putting into effect.

                Mobplan 1938 - 1939 assign the name: for the Red Army - "; Mobplan"; 22 ";, for civilian commissariats -"; Mobplan number 8 ";.

                All mobilization developments on the new Mobplan should be started immediately, with the expectation that all work will be completed, both in the center and in the field by 1.5.1938.

                II. The volume of the mobilization deployment of the Red Army according to Mobplan number 22

                The volume of the mobilization deployment of the Red Army for 1938, in the event of a general mobilization announcement, should be set in the following main indicators (in the 1st stage):

                and further down the list it has already been declassified, you can see it in open sources. It cannot be on the "When" plan. wink
                more than 1200 locations were prepared for the deployment of portable production
          2. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 15 November 2020 15: 47
            0
            It also struck me at one time when I read about it. The border battles were still in full swing, and the high leadership was already sure that the first part of the war had been lost and gave the order to transfer industry from the western part of the USSR to the Urals.
            1. Aviator_
              Aviator_ 15 November 2020 16: 08
              +1
              They were transferred outside the zone of operation of the German Air Force, very far-sighted.
              1. voyaka uh
                voyaka uh 15 November 2020 16: 16
                -2
                The Germans had almost no long-range bombers in 1941. And the few that were
                manufactured in the 30s, were shot down in the Battle of England.
                Almost all of the Luftwaffe aviation was frontline.
                Evacuating the industry, they were afraid of its capture by the land,
                tank units of the Wehrmacht. That is, the Kremlin from the very beginning of the war
                I was sure that large-scale tank battles near the border (Dubno, etc.)
                The Red Army will lose and will retreat far to the east.
                1. Filxnumx
                  Filxnumx 25 November 2020 19: 43
                  0
                  From the very beginning of the war, the Kremlin was confident that large-scale tank battles near the border (Dubno and others) the Red Army would lose and would retreat far to the east.

                  When the enemy preempts you in deploying troops in the direction of the main attack, there is no other way out but to immediately begin the evacuation of industry.
    2. antivirus
      antivirus 12 November 2020 21: 37
      +2
      This mill has been operating at MMK today, for more than a hundred years.

      - bearings at the heart of everything ............................................. ............... and stans too - GPPs rule
      1. Alexander Kopychev
        Alexander Kopychev 13 November 2020 07: 47
        +1
        bearings at the heart of everything

        There are no problems with bearings on such mills - the necks of the rolls are clamped between the textolite "gaskets" and, under the pressure of water, spin like clockwork. Another thing is that the stiffness of such a rolling stand leaves much to be desired, but with such tolerances (+/-) size it is normal.
  11. deniso
    deniso 12 November 2020 19: 58
    -15 qualifying.
    in short, he is the best tank, but he made his way with all the guns
  12. Alexander Kopychev
    Alexander Kopychev 12 November 2020 20: 03
    23
    As a professional metallurgist, on my own ridge I know what it is like to master and launch a new range of high-alloy steel grades in such a short time. Low bow and respect to the grandfathers for the Labor Victory !!!
    1. Alf
      Alf 12 November 2020 21: 29
      +7
      Quote: Alexander Kopychev
      As a professional metallurgist, on my own ridge I know what it is like to master and launch a new range of high-alloy steel grades in such a short time. Low bow and respect to the grandfathers for the Labor Victory !!!

      In turn, as an experienced CNC machine tool adjuster, I can confirm that it is not an easy task to switch to the production of a completely different product. This is to the question of why during the war they were so reluctant to switch from product A to product B. By the way, aloizych was also not a fool, being a champion of the idea "the war should be ended with the same weapon that started."
      1. Alexander Kopychev
        Alexander Kopychev 12 November 2020 22: 26
        11
        Aloizych was also not a fool, being a champion of the idea "the war should be ended with the same weapon that started."

        EXACTLY!!! Only aloizych barked loudly (with the Pz-4 he frankly gave it to some Mach and rolled to the mouse) And Vissarionych brought his armies of modernized T-34s to Berlin! This is to the question that "women and teenagers" forged Victory in the rear. Kwak would not Kwak you, liberals! Stalin took care of his own, able to shoe a flea Lefties, like the apple of his eye - this is to the question of how many billions of specialists have disappeared in the camps. Who still believes in this Solzhenitsyn nonsense, just think about where the tank armies of 43-45 were born? Maybe at logging sites?
        1. Alf
          Alf 12 November 2020 22: 35
          +7
          Quote: Alexander Kopychev
          Who still believes in this Solzhenitsyn nonsense

          Even here there are such, however, frankly few of them remain.
          1. Alexander Kopychev
            Alexander Kopychev 12 November 2020 22: 49
            +5
            Well, well, maybe I'm not pouring out my soul in vain. For some reason, the angry owners of budget KIA and Hyundai try on the formula for everything to take and share, forgetting about the price tags at the gas station - there they would quickly and angrily share everything. Morons! It is necessary to divide not property, but the means of production, more precisely, socialize or nationalize back.
        2. English tarantas
          English tarantas 13 November 2020 00: 51
          -3
          their armies of modernized T-34

          In May 45 in the SA there was such a zoo, no worse than the German one. Starting with the BT-7, passing through the multifaceted fleet of T-34s, for a start, differing at each plant, and then in modifications, through a fleet of all kinds of KV and self-propelled guns.
          1. Alexander Kopychev
            Alexander Kopychev 13 November 2020 08: 04
            0
            In May 45 in the SA there was such a zoo, no worse than the German one.

            And rightly so! If there was a supply of spare parts, and in battle, a sapper blade was sometimes needed.
            1. English tarantas
              English tarantas 13 November 2020 15: 34
              0
              The stock of spare parts does not matter if the spare parts and the machine cannot be connected. And besides the details, first of all, you need personnel, fuel and shells, and all this must be transported. If there is a solution to this logistic problem, then please.
          2. Glory1974
            Glory1974 13 November 2020 09: 39
            +1
            In May 45 in the SA there was such a zoo, no worse than the German one.

            Yes, by the end of the war there were cars that fought since the age of 41 and survived.
            But a number of samples were removed from service during the war and ceased to be produced.
            1. English tarantas
              English tarantas 13 November 2020 15: 31
              0
              Nuuuuu. But for example, BT-7 actually reached Germany.
              1. Alf
                Alf 13 November 2020 21: 13
                +1
                Quote: English Tarantas
                Nuuuuu. But for example, BT-7 actually reached Germany.

                Where exactly did they arrive?
              2. hohol95
                hohol95 14 November 2020 22: 18
                0
                BT-7s actually reached Harbin!
                And in the European part of the USSR, they, together with the BT-5, were last used in 1944 on the Karelian Front as part of the 91st separate tank regiment. 14 BT-7 and 5 BT-5.
                T-26 freed Sakhalin island from the Japanese. And they were part of the troops brought into Iran. But they stopped fighting with the Germans after 1942.
                And they could be used either in secondary sectors of the front or in the rear units in Central Asia, Transcaucasia and the Far East.
            2. mat-vey
              mat-vey 15 November 2020 05: 30
              -1
              Quote: glory1974
              But a number of samples were removed from service during the war and ceased to be produced.

              Even for the T-34, which entered the overhaul, they digested the turret deal and blamed the shoulder strap and the turret.
          3. Alf
            Alf 13 November 2020 21: 11
            +2
            Quote: English Tarantas
            their armies of modernized T-34

            In May 45 in the SA there was such a zoo, no worse than the German one. Starting with the BT-7, passing through the multifaceted fleet of T-34s, for a start, differing at each plant, and then in modifications, through a fleet of all kinds of KV and self-propelled guns.

            BT-7 in the Red Army in the 45th year were only in the Far East.
          4. hohol95
            hohol95 14 November 2020 22: 27
            +1
            In May 1945, the tank forces of the USSR were in full order. Old models of tanks were only in the rear units in the vastness of our vast country!
            T-26 liberated the island of Sakhalin.
            BT tanks stormed the Big Khingan.
            But they were not in the majority - only 34 T85-670 units were involved.
  13. Undecim
    Undecim 12 November 2020 20: 45
    +5
    Metallurgists, with the help of TsNII-48 employees who arrived from the Izhora plant, quickly mastered the smelting of armor steel in 150-, 185- and 300-ton main open-hearth furnaces, which has not been done anywhere in the world.
    Just at the Izhora factories, since 1894, armor steel was smelted in the main open-hearth furnaces.
  14. The comment was deleted.
  15. tihonmarine
    tihonmarine 12 November 2020 20: 49
    +2
    How resourceful our man is, he shod a flea, and could cook armor in open-hearth furnaces, and roll armor on blooming mills.
  16. Comrade Kim
    Comrade Kim 12 November 2020 23: 40
    +2
    Quote: polpot
    Thank you, very interesting, we look forward to continuing.

    We wait!!!
  17. beeper
    beeper 13 November 2020 01: 31
    +8
    hi Thanks to the dear Author Evgeny Fedorov! good
    An interesting Topic and Articles are written in such a way that they are read in one breath (especially since, at work, for decades he was closely associated with foundry, and with metallurgy, and even with rolling, and also a tanker in the still Soviet military profession -including with the "family" of ISs (heavy tank IS-8, renamed by the Khrushchevites in T-10) I "talked" a little, and I still remember, with my body and skin, the indescribable feeling of a "living monolith" of the armor of their towers, my "full fusion with armor", which I never, neither before nor after, did not appear inside our other types of tanks, as if those ISs were some kind of special - "prayed" or, indeed, "alive", with their vibrations , synergistically coinciding with mine, there is something to think about for inquisitive scientists looking for non-trivial topics for research, and for design engineers of any technology directly controlled by humans!)! good
  18. Incvizitor
    Incvizitor 13 November 2020 02: 46
    0
    IS 3 I think in general then the invincible was true only at the very end, I don't know whether I took part in battles or only in a parade.
    1. Nitochkin
      Nitochkin 13 November 2020 03: 30
      +4
      At the parade, he definitely accepted the battle, morally suppressing the "allies" who, by their Anglo-Saxon nature, were already thinking to the full about not stabbing the Soviet Union in the back.
  19. bandabas
    bandabas 13 November 2020 06: 54
    0
    Armor is armor, and infantry, tanks, air force and artillery win together. Everything must be interconnected.
    1. mat-vey
      mat-vey 15 November 2020 14: 43
      -1
      Quote: bandabas
      Everything must be interconnected

      That's why the Germans created tank corps.
  20. Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 13 November 2020 12: 48
    0
    Quote: Captain Pushkin
    Acting according to a pre-approved plan, not a single fleet on the first day of the war lost ANY SHIP.

    On the first day, the ground forces also lost a little, although they were attacked with all their might. The fleet was hitting the last thing the Germans did.
  21. Alexey RA
    Alexey RA 13 November 2020 13: 28
    +1
    Under fire from 50-mm shells, a heavy domestic tank made its way from the nose with sub-caliber shells, and armor-piercing shells from the sides and stern.

    To be precise, then:
    50-mm anti-tank gun PaK.38, ordinary armor-piercing:
    The 75-mm sheet normal showed the back strength limit of 700 m, the through penetration limit of 400 m. That is, starting from a distance of 700 m and closer PaK.38 can penetrate unshielded HF armor, with 400 m it is guaranteed to break through.
    The 45-mm sheet along the normal showed the through penetration limit of 1500 m, at an angle of 30 degrees to the normal 1300 m.
    That is, PaK.38 confidently hits the T-34 in the side and the tower at any real combat distance.
    © D. Shein
  22. eklmn
    eklmn 13 November 2020 17: 28
    0
    For the curious:
    There is a very interesting series - Great Tank Battles, which includes tank battles with the First MV and ending with modern ones.
    In Season 2, Episode 9 - "Battle for the Baltic" (spring-summer 1944).
    Six Tigers, under the command of the German ace Otto Carius, were preparing a breakthrough of the Soviet defense to withdraw the surrounded Germans from the cauldron. Otto Carius on two Tigers went to the village of Malinava, Latvia (you can find a lot of info on Google if you type “Malinava, Latvia”). Due to the surprise, these 2 Tigers destroyed 15 T-4 tanks and 34 IS-6 tanks in 2 minutes. Moreover, as stated in the film, the huge disadvantage of the IS-2 tank was that the barrel of the gun had to be lowered to charge, which led to a loss of time.

    https://www.davidpentland.com/david_pentland_art.php?ProdID=16385
    1. Alf
      Alf 13 November 2020 21: 19
      +2
      Quote: eklmn
      Moreover, as stated in the film, the huge disadvantage of the IS-2 tank was that the barrel of the gun had to be lowered to charge, which led to a loss of time.

      First, the IS was usually direct fire, so this objection can be dismissed.
      Secondly, how did the Tiger load the gun? Similar.
      Now for the film. To be honest, there is no desire to watch for one simple reason. The film was filmed THERE, and how there is a lie is not to tell in a fairy tale, nor to describe with a pen.
      P.S. Did these destroyed ISs participate in this battle, or how did Wittmann burn 7 Shermans standing without crews in Villers-Bocage?
      1. mat-vey
        mat-vey 14 November 2020 11: 17
        0
        And the Tiger also had a restriction on the intensity-rate of fire (I don't remember the indicators) - if you exceed the recoil brake and the recoil mechanism, when squeezing into the tower, it was necessary not only to rearrange the recoil-return ones, but also make it somewhat easier.
    2. hohol95
      hohol95 14 November 2020 22: 09
      +2
      Due to the surprise, these 2 Tigers destroyed 15 T-4 tanks and 34 IS-6 tanks in 2 minutes.

      That it was they who "castrated" the battle score of Carius! He announced 17 IS-2 and 5 T-34 !!!
      And after the battle in the village of Malinovo they ambushed and burned MORE 28 Soviet tanks of an unnamed model!
      At the same time, the German command recorded in the documents - 17 T-34-85 and 6 IS-2!
      With the loss of 2 Tigers. Without mentioning the loss of infantry and self-propelled guns, which thanked Karius for saving. There are no records of the ambush and 28 "extra" tanks! They were born only in the inflammations of Carius under the design of the writer Kurowski.
      And according to the documents of the Soviet units, 9 T-34-85 and 5 IS-2 were lost in that battle.
      Complete analysis of this episode in Baryatinsky's book "Tigers in battle".
  23. Amborlakatay
    Amborlakatay 13 November 2020 22: 06
    +1
    Interesting, I haven't read much about the creation of armor.
  24. zharkoy50
    zharkoy50 14 November 2020 21: 10
    0
    It should be noted - Photos of tanks IS-2 from the book of F.M. "Tank March" (see the site of the same name).
  25. Sckepsis
    Sckepsis 14 November 2020 22: 50
    +1

    The tactical characteristics of the KV armored hull with an armor thickness of 75 mm showed its satisfactory resistance only to 37-mm shells of German artillery.

    Some very challenging statement that contradicts a lot, including the German manuals on countering tanks.
  26. militarist63
    militarist63 16 November 2020 13: 49
    0
    Under the first photo it is written: "IS-2 of the 74th heavy tank-self-propelled regiment next to the tank park built in Gustrow" ... Maybe after all, not next to the park, but in the park ..., just next to the constructed boxes in this very "tank park", or rather, in the fleet of combat vehicles!
  27. roll
    roll 17 November 2020 20: 42
    0
    Nickel is 2.5 times more than in the T-34 armor. This is already at the level of the classic NVNC ...
  28. Sergey79
    Sergey79 23 November 2020 16: 55
    0
    Thank you, very interesting and informative.
  29. Viktor HanelisBogatishev
    Viktor HanelisBogatishev 28 November 2020 17: 05
    0
    The fate of Kristaps Kristapovich Neiland is quite simple to trace - it is enough to type in the search for the World Wide Web: K.K. Neiland, by the way, is an interesting fate of an outstanding Soviet man and a Russian Latvian!