Military Review

Theory and practice of propaganda

182

Polish propaganda boomerang



Currently, in various articles and comments to them, terms such as "propaganda" and "propagandist" are very often used. Moreover, these words are almost always used to humiliate and offend an opponent, or someone who is discussed in this article.

Almost all of us have heard such phrases as "Putin's (Soros's) propagandist", "State Department (liberal, communist, Kremlin) propaganda" and a number of others. I think that people who use the above words understand them too simplistically. They probably believe that "propaganda" is when a pro-government journalist (or just a citizen) exaggerates the merits of the government and downplays its own shortcomings. This is partly true, but I have a rhetorical and rather mundane question for all readers: how many of you always tell the truth, only the truth and nothing else? Do the spouses tell each other the only truth, do not exaggerate anything and do not diminish anything? And children to their parents and fathers to their offspring also daily cut only the truth in the face?

Is it always necessary to tell only one truth? Try asking this question to yourself and answering it. I'm not sure that you will be able to give a clear and, moreover, an honest answer.

It would be interesting to look at a person who, being among the Vikings, listening to the sagas of the skald about the exploits of their ancestors who had gone to Valhalla forever, would declare that “all this is propaganda, and the ancestors of the Vikings were not entirely heroic, and their victories were not obtained by skill, but the fact that the enemy was filled with their corpses. " I think that the fate of such a "truth-teller" would be unenviable, and life would be very short.

Let us in modern realities, as a vivid example of how differently propaganda can be perceived in very similar situations, compare the events that took place in Belarus (Belarus) after the presidential elections with the recent rallies in Poland (Poland, Polska). The organizers of women's rallies (by the way, the most massive in stories modern Poland) themselves claim that they have largely borrowed the technologies used during the Belarusian protests. For example, the informal leaders of the women's strike that shook the country announced the creation of their advisory council (similar to the coordinating council of the Belarusian opposition). The leader of the Polish protests, Marta Lempart, explicitly states that she took the model of the Minsk events as a basis:

"We look at Belarus and see how important the coordination of actions is."

Thus, the glorification of the Belarusian events in the Polish press with the active participation of the official Warsaw led to the fact that the Poles themselves began to copy them. For two months after the Belarusian elections, Polish leaders at all levels made speeches with fervor about the need to fully support “peaceful protests” in the neighboring country, “protect women in Belarus who are heroically fighting for freedom”, and help them morally and financially. When the “Belarusian scenario” began to be implemented in Poland itself, the same national leaders began to angrily condemn their “peaceful protesters”, approving the use of police violence against them and threatening with harsh prison terms.

For several weeks, the Polish authorities demanded to condemn the “Lukashenka regime” for the persecution of Belarusian oppositionists. And now, Deputy Minister of Justice Michał Woś calls on the prosecutor's office to begin harsh repression against their own protesters, ominously saying in an interview:

“All prosecutors in Poland must treat the organizers of illegal gatherings as criminals. They will face up to eight years in prison due to threats to their life and health. "

“Here is such a squiggle,” as one well-known and extremely negative character put it. The policy of double standards in matters of propaganda is evident among Polish politicians.

Window dressing is not an element


However, let us return directly to the theory of the issue under discussion. Very often the local authorities are accused of "show off" as an element of propaganda when they put things in order for the arrival of someone from the higher leadership. On this occasion, you can ask another rhetorical question to the readers of the article, based on a simple life situation: "Don't you personally put things in order at home when you are waiting for guests?"

There is a small, but very active category of people in our society who always and in everything urge us to tell each other the truth, whatever it may be. And if you exaggerate or underestimate something, it means that you are a propagandist. That is, in the opinion of these "holy people", almost each of us is a double-hearted propagandist, if only because most people hide their personal shortcomings, and emphasize their advantages, even minimal ones.

You can cite many more different everyday examples when even the closest people do not tell each other the full truth, but these are all just emotional arguments on the topic of "propaganda". I propose to move on to the history of the issue and to some generally accepted scientific definitions and facts.

The origins of propaganda


The term "propaganda" comes from the Latin word prŏpāgare - to spread, to expand. It was originally used to describe the dispersal of plants into new territories. In the 1622th century, this word acquired a different meaning and began to be used to denote the spread of the Christian faith. Pope Gregory XV created the Congregation for the Propaganda of the Faith in 1988. This organization was responsible for coordinating the activities of Catholic missions on different continents and training missionaries. This organization existed under this name until XNUMX. Of course, the art of spreading and suggesting ideas existed long before the creation of the Congregation for the Propaganda of Faith, and most likely, the origins of such a phenomenon as propaganda should be sought in the history of the first human civilizations.

In the most ancient states of Greece and Rome, there was a developed political culture, which used methods that can be called agitation and propaganda. However, in its modern recognizable form, propaganda began to form only in the New Age, which was facilitated by the development of technology, as well as secular and political life.

The rationalistic worldview and ideas of the philosophers-enlighteners of the XNUMXth-XNUMXth centuries formed a demand for the emergence of new methods of convincing other people of the correctness of some views and the falsity of others. The development of printing during this period created the technical prerequisites for the dissemination of ideas through propaganda. Periodicals appeared, as well as new genres of political pamphlets and cartoons.

Since the time of the Great French Revolution, propaganda techniques have been widely used in political struggle, both on the part of the state power and on the part of the opposition. In the era of wars and revolutions, new methods of agitation and propaganda appear: oral (spreading rumors and News) and written (newspapers, proclamations, posters and leaflets). The visual arts also contributed to the formation of images and ideas necessary for propagandists.

The propaganda influence reached a new scale during the First World War. The governments of the belligerent powers needed millions of recruits to fight this war, as well as the general support of the population. The scientific and technological revolution led by that time to the appearance of the telephone, telegraph, radio, cinematography and large-circulation press. But the main prerequisite for the success of mobilizing the population was the spread of primary and secondary public education, which shaped the mentality of nationalist-minded law-abiding citizens.

In addition to verbal and written appeals, government and political organizations widely used posters with recognizable images and emotionally charged appeals to create patriotic sentiments.

The most recognizable is the American propaganda poster of Uncle Sam pointing at the viewer, with the words "I want you to serve in the US Army." Similar posters with an appeal to enroll in the army as a volunteer existed both among the Reds (“Have you signed up as a volunteer?”) And among the Whites (“Why are you not in the army?”) During the Russian civil war.

Theory and practice of propaganda

The world war, which ended with the collapse of four empires, the October Revolution and the civil war in Russia, the formation of new states, mass parties and movements - all these phenomena, which changed the world beyond recognition, forced us to take a fresh look at the issues of propaganda influence.

During World War II, Adolf Hitler and Paul Joseph Goebbels proved to be true masters of propaganda.

All Nazi propaganda was built on false theses, repeated many thousands of times. Key points:
- the racial superiority of the Germans (this thesis is an absolute lie, but a lie that the Germans believed in);
- the presence of a threat (from Jews and from communists).

All this was supported by propaganda brochures, which published photographs of exceptionally beautiful German men and women, symbolizing health and strength. And when they talked about the conspiracy of the Jews, they gave the names of the bankers.

Radio (speeches of the leaders of the Reich) had a powerful propaganda effect.

After World War II, propaganda became a powerful ideological weapon.

In our time, this concept includes the influence and achievement of the intended goal by influencing the consciousness of individuals, groups of people or society as a whole. Such techniques make people do what they want them to do. In this case, the individual behaves as if he made this decision himself.

Now not only politicians, but also scientists are interested in the problem of propaganda. The main thing became clear to sociologists and psychologists (and just sane people): in the hands of malicious politicians, propaganda turns into an instrument of manipulation, exaggeration and outright lies.

The ideological cane of the state


The word "propaganda" evokes various feelings, mostly negative, among people unfamiliar with the theory of government.
At the same time, propaganda is a naturally existing part of the state structure, therefore, there is nothing out of the ordinary in this.

To believe that any propaganda is a sign of an exceptionally weak and totalitarian state, at least, is not sufficiently expedient. In those countries that are considered democratic, state propaganda is developed, perhaps no less strongly than in those that are considered totalitarian, only it is more veiled and does not seem as obvious as, for example, in North Korea. Propaganda educates people and therefore propaganda is ambiguous. It's like a parent: if you were brought up, for example, by a heavily drinking asocial marginal, then the chances of becoming a respected member of society are much less than if you were brought up by a harmoniously developed kind person.

Initially, propaganda does not have a clear evil or good direction, it is a way to convey an idea to as many people as possible, using the simplest and most effective methods. Its direction already depends on the goals of the propagandist himself. For example, someone can use this tool to popularize the idea of ​​a healthy lifestyle, and someone - to instill the ideology of the superiority of one race over others.

The effectiveness of propaganda lies in the fact that it operates with extremely simple and understandable things. Appeals to the basic concepts of human morality, such as good or bad, friend or foe, restoration of justice and fear of something.
Simply put, propaganda is the dissemination of any information in order to form a stable opinion about something in society or in a certain part of it. People who engage in propaganda are called propagandists.

Each full-fledged state with a developed functioning of the authorities plans its own course for the distant future. Propaganda is one of the main levers of mass control. The purpose of propaganda is to show people in various ways what the state needs or to convey to them a certain idea that is supported by the same state.

To fully understand the topic of propaganda, two types of propaganda should be distinguished.

The first of these is direct propaganda. It is used to simply introduce an opinion into the public masses as a completed fact.

The second is indirect propaganda. She sets out the facts and her own opinion. In most cases, direct propaganda (surprisingly to many) is more effective. However, it often completely eliminates the need to think.



Stop thief


Considering and analyzing the methods and methods of propaganda, one can refer to the "Encyclopedia of Propaganda Methods" by Viktor Sorochenko, which popularly describes the most common methods. Here are just a few of them:

"Anonymous authority". The well-known phrase "British scientists have found out ..." characterizes this method in the best possible way. The phrase has long acquired a humorous connotation and is rarely taken seriously, but such clichés as “according to scientists; the researchers found out; etc. " still inspire confidence in the audience, although "the information conveyed in this way is in most cases a lie."

“References to non-existent authority give it solidity and weight in the eyes of ordinary people. At the same time, the source has not been identified, and the journalists bear no responsibility for the false report. "

"Everyday Story".

"This technique allows the media to preserve the illusion of objective coverage of events, but at the same time devalues ​​the significance of what happened, creates an image among the mass audience about this event as something insignificant, not worthy of special attention and, moreover, public assessment."

That is, serious and terrible incidents are reported by journalists quite calmly and casually:

"If you need to accustom people to violence, blood, murder, atrocities of all kinds, then a fine-looking TV presenter with a calm face and an even voice, as if casually, informs you every day about the most serious atrocities."

Stop thief. The purpose of the admission is to mingle with your pursuers. A striking example is the experience of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) during the period of William Egan Colby (1970s). When this organization was accused of terrorism, murders, explosions, overthrow of governments, drug trafficking, and undercover failures, the CIA, led by Colby, ran ahead of the whistleblowers and began to expose themselves so zealously that the whistleblowers themselves barely reassured them. So W. Colby kept the CIA. The same technique is used to discredit, when the perpetrators, feeling the failure, are the first to raise a cry and direct the people's anger in the other direction. This technique is often used by "human rights activists" and "fighters against the mafia", whose task is to disorganize the public.

“Eyewitnesses of the event”. Can be called upon to help create emotional resonance, that is, by influencing feelings.

“A classic example is the Persian Gulf. In October 1990, a fifteen-year-old girl told the world media that she saw Iraqi soldiers take fifteen babies out of the hospital and put them on the cold floor to die. The girl's name was demonstratively hidden for reasons of the safety of her family. US President George HW Bush used the story of dead babies ten times in the forty days before the invasion of Iraq (Republic of Iraq). The Senate discussion on approving the military action also repeatedly returned to this fact. It was later revealed that the girl was the daughter of the Kuwaiti ambassador to the United States, a member of the Kuwaiti ruling family. Later it became known that most of the other "witnesses" were prepared and exhibited by the famous firm "Hill & Knowlton". But this no longer worried anyone. "

"Shifting emphasis". I consider it necessary to quote only one passage:

“Well-armed Palestinians with fists attacked peacefully tanks Israeli soldiers. The soldiers received severe mental trauma. The Palestinians escaped with light deaths. "

And this is only a small part of the "Encyclopedia of Propaganda Methods". I don't think it's worth reprinting all of it here. And whoever wants to can read this book on their own.

In addition to the above, the following can also be attributed to the main forms of propaganda impact:

"Hanging labels". This is a method in which a negative, but understandable label is glued to a person or a group: a Nazi, a fascist, a liberal, etc. Which, in turn, makes people judgmental or negative towards the bearers of such a label, in this way the very humanity and significance of these people is understated.

"Using words of virtue." These are words that are deliberately added to concepts in order to divert attention from facts. For example: "famous scientists", "according to" experts "," scientific "," strong opinion ". These inserts urge a person to believe in any statement, since it is based on the conclusions of "authoritative" scientists or a stable paradigm.

Celebrity Reviews. This is a propaganda method, when an idea is pushed by popular and well-known personalities with a large target audience. The bottom line is that fans should take all the information from the idol, without doubting its authenticity and correctness (well, my idol can't be talking some nonsense).

"Deification". This is giving an idea or a person a sacred meaning, creating an image of sacredness or divinity. For example: "This is ours, God-given land, and we must ...", "God-given right to ...".

"Belonging to the majority." This is the way in which the idea is presented as the general opinion of the masses. For example: "By general opinion", "According to the majority of respondents ...", "In the opinion of the people ...". These sayings urge a person not to get out of the pack, not to be special and to trust the opinion of the majority.

Repetition is the mother of agitation


The means used for propaganda are standard:
- Internet (YouTube, social networks, telegram channels, Zen and other means of Internet communication);
- TV;
- radio;
- newspapers and magazines;
- lectures;
- visual agitation.

First of all, propaganda is a process that involves:
- subject - a group of society that seeks to impose its point of view on another social group;
- object - the target audience to which the campaigning actions are directed.

The main difference between propaganda and the usual dissemination of information is the presence of a goal in favor of which the propaganda activity is carried out (that is, the presence of intentionality), plus systematic repetition.

A simple schematic example: Petrov in his public speech stated that Ivanov was not a very smart person. A one-time mention of this fact is just information for your information.

But if Petrov asserts this at every crossroads, attracts television, throwing leaflets, etc., trying to ensure that a certain audience believes in his statements, then his activities will be classified as propaganda.

Manipulative negative


Propaganda can be of two types:
- positive: it brings generally accepted values ​​to the masses (for example, the promotion of a healthy lifestyle);
- negative: manipulates the emotions and minds of people to create a certain, often negative attitude in various sectors of society.

As a rule, the main area where propaganda is actively used is politics.

After all, it is politics that needs the means to manipulate people. Political propaganda can be both positive and negative. The percentage of this mixture depends on the goals pursued by this or that party, this or that politician.

Positive propaganda is used to inform and educate society.

Negative propaganda is designed to exacerbate the contradictions existing in society on racial, national, social grounds. This leads to a split in society. Such a society is easier to manipulate. This is what propagandists who represent someone's interests are trying to achieve.

As stated earlier, propagandists are people engaged in propaganda. Their main goal is to form the necessary public opinion among a certain group of the population. For people to trust a propagandist, he must master the art of manipulating people and at the same time be close and understandable to them.

Advocacy is effective if the following conditions are met:
- there is a clearly formulated goal (in my opinion, this is the most important condition that is completely absent in our country at the present time);
- the means of communicating the promoted interests are maximally accessible to the target audience (for example, for young people, the Internet is the optimal channel for delivering propagandistic information; for middle-aged and older people - television);
- the promoted theses are easily understood by the target audience and are related to its pressing problems, which is why propaganda materials are prepared by specialists, among whom there are psychologists;
- the imposed information is difficult to refute (as a rule, it is logical, confirmed by real examples).

Instead of a conclusion


In the collapse of the USSR, propaganda played a significant role, quite subtly organized by the countries of the collective West. During the destruction of the Soviet Union, the main forces of propaganda were thrown into denial and demonization of everything that was Soviet. In the future, this could not affect modern Russia either. The intensity of anti-Soviet propaganda has now slightly decreased, but it is still everywhere: in films, books, on television, in history textbooks, etc. And this propaganda works. To be convinced of this, it is enough just to talk to current people.

In today's realities for Western countries, the basis for state propaganda is mainly Russophobia, as a continuation of anti-Soviet propaganda.

However, propaganda is somewhat more than the preferences or delusions of certain powerful leaders. This is a global phenomenon that surrounds every person throughout his life.

Propaganda is an inevitability under any system and under any power, the question is only in its direction. Therefore, you should not unconditionally trust everything that the media and propagandists tell you, both from the authorities and from the opposition.

If we ourselves renounce positive and constructive propaganda within our society, then the propaganda destroying our country will be imposed on us from the outside - as they say: “a holy place is never empty”. And, unfortunately, it has already been imposed on us in part: it can be seen with the naked eye.

Your own opinion (preferably based on facts, and not on speculation and emotions) may or may not coincide with the generally accepted opinion. It's okay, but it's yours.
Author:
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  1. Lexus
    Lexus 11 November 2020 15: 09
    22
    In comparison with the current pro-government propaganda, Goebbels' one "nervously smokes on the sidelines."

    1. Svarog
      Svarog 11 November 2020 15: 15
      +3
      Quote: lexus
      In comparison with the current pro-government propaganda, Goebbels' one "nervously smokes on the sidelines."

      It is Goebbels' ... for based on lies. And in the Soviet Union the propaganda was truthful, based on truth .. But the question is, why do people choose a lie? Do they like to be deceived?
      1. Lexus
        Lexus 11 November 2020 15: 22
        +7
        The Semeynaya organized crime group made every effort so that there was nothing to choose from.

        1. Svarog
          Svarog 11 November 2020 15: 25
          +7
          Quote: lexus
          The Semeynaya organized crime group made every effort so that there was nothing to choose from.


          Alexey, I think you are one hundred percent right .. it is the lack of alternatives and the criminal prosecution of candidates that leave people without a choice .. Everything is like in African countries ..
          1. Lexus
            Lexus 11 November 2020 15: 30
            +1
            I'm afraid African countries will have to collapse to the Ebnoputin "horizons".
            1. VORON538
              VORON538 11 November 2020 15: 59
              -11 qualifying.
              After Putin, who will you blame?
              the correct answer is who will be told (a hint to youwink)
              1. Xnumx vis
                Xnumx vis 11 November 2020 22: 57
                -3
                [quote = VORON538] After Putin, who will you blame?
                the correct answer is who will be told (a hint to youwink) [/ quote The gentlemen you mentioned are propaganda themselves. Moreover, the brutal anti-state, anti-Russian. Their maxims are very similar to the comments in the Ukrainian media.
            2. Machito
              Machito 11 November 2020 16: 10
              +1
              Quote: lexus
              I'm afraid African countries will have to collapse to the Ebnoputin "horizons".

              The propaganda of the Washington Regional Committee and of the West in general went off the rails, dropping to the level of fakes. The surname Psaki became a household name. In the West, "free" media is pouring outright lies and nonsense into the ears of the people. Many sane people do not like this, which is why RussiaToday is so popular in the West.
              1. Lexus
                Lexus 11 November 2020 16: 16
                17
                RussiaToday is "popular" only in the sick imagination of M. Simonyan, who "digests" huge sums of money taken from other much more important budget items. As for Psaki and Peskov, in terms of delirium, it seems that they are generally the same person - before the operation ... and after.
                1. Machito
                  Machito 11 November 2020 16: 22
                  +5
                  Margarita's imagination is all right, which became especially noticeable against the background of the defeat of Armenia. But when Great Britain begins to pinch RussiaToday at the governmental level, it becomes clear that the channel's information policy does not get along with Western Propaganda.
                  1. The comment was deleted.
                    1. Lexus
                      Lexus 11 November 2020 16: 55
                      11
                      Dear Sylvester hi,
                      you see, some "mu ... tants" who use "nightingale droppings" and other nasty things, think, including for us, that it is much "more useful" than a decent pension, quality health care and education.
                      1. New Year day
                        New Year day 11 November 2020 17: 01
                        +2
                        Quote: lexus
                        disgusting, they believe, including for us, that it is much more "useful" than a decent pension, quality health care and education.

                        Lexus! I assure you that their show off to the first hospital, to the first "good" doctor

                        Then they run like rats, looking for acquaintances, opportunities, and they wet and wet laughing
                      2. Lexus
                        Lexus 11 November 2020 17: 06
                        +4
                        Big rats will be blown abroad for treatment, also at the expense of the state budget.request
                  2. The comment was deleted.
                2. WIKI
                  WIKI 11 November 2020 17: 08
                  +6
                  Quote: Bearded
                  Margarita's imagination is all right

                  "If Russia wanted to poison Navalny, he would be hit by a car." M. Simonyan. The pinnacle of wit.
                  1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                    Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 11 November 2020 17: 39
                    -1
                    Quote: WIKI
                    "If Russia wanted to poison Navalny, he would be hit by a car." M. Simonyan. The pinnacle of wit.

                    Armenian radio?
                    1. WIKI
                      WIKI 12 November 2020 00: 39
                      -1
                      Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                      Armenian radio?

                      Is it difficult for you to type in the search? https://twitter.com/M_Simonyan/status/1319317657204686859
                  2. Overlock
                    Overlock 11 November 2020 21: 08
                    12
                    Quote: WIKI
                    "If Russia wanted to poison Navalny, he would be hit by a car." M. Simonyan. The pinnacle of wit.

                    stupidity and stupidity. At least she understood what she said
                    1. Lexus
                      Lexus 11 November 2020 21: 25
                      0
                      Sergei hi,
                      and the height of impunity insolence.
                    2. Civil
                      Civil 12 November 2020 07: 35
                      -1
                      I wanted to write something) yes, everyone has already managed to do it before me)
                3. The comment was deleted.
          2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
            Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 11 November 2020 16: 32
            +4
            Quote: Bearded
            In the West, "free" media is pouring outright lies and nonsense into the ears of the people.

            Only there? But after all, someone poured into your ears (or hung on your ears - whatever you like) that
            Quote: Bearded
            so popular in the West RussiaToday.

            After all, one has to think of such an idiocy - RT, it turns out, in the view of an ordinary Russian beats popularity records in the West ... Facepalm ...
          3. solzh
            solzh 15 November 2020 03: 35
            15
            Quote: Bearded
            The propaganda of the Washington Regional Committee and the West in general went off the rails, dropping to the level of fakes

            In the modern world, all propaganda, of all states, has slipped to the level of fakes.
          4. solzh
            solzh 15 November 2020 03: 44
            14
            Quote: Bearded
            The surname Psaki has become a household name

            By the way about the bird, that is about Psaki. She played well a not-so-smart press secretary. Sometimes it becomes boring, you turn on the old video with her statements and it immediately becomes fun. But in fact, all this was propaganda, to distract the minds of viewers, so that they would not see the main thing.
      2. ccsr
        ccsr 11 November 2020 19: 58
        +5
        Quote: Svarog
        it is the lack of alternatives and criminal prosecution of candidates that leave people without a choice .. Everything is like in African countries ..

        And why can't you watch Euronews, BBC or Deutschewelle every day in the software package - do you really live in such a hole where it is not available? Then use your smartphone - there is all this on the network. Even in African countries they watch it, it is strange that you cannot use this source of information so as not to watch TV commentators you hate.
  2. credo
    credo 11 November 2020 15: 39
    -10 qualifying.
    Quote: Svarog
    Quote: lexus
    In comparison with the current pro-government propaganda, Goebbels' one "nervously smokes on the sidelines."

    It is Goebbels' ... for based on lies. And in the Soviet Union the propaganda was truthful, based on truth .. But the question is, why do people choose a lie? Do they like to be deceived?

    Anyone can offend a journalist, and you and your colleague are also no exception, comparing the point of view of some Russian journalists with Goebbels.
    Unlike Goebbels, the listed journalists give the floor to the most terrifying Nazis and stubborn liberals and ardent communists. So to hang a shameful cliché on them is low and despicable. I would have looked at you if you had the opportunity to meet face to face with Goebbels in Nazi Germany, so that you "sang" to him in a personal meeting.
    1. ALARI
      ALARI 11 November 2020 15: 49
      +8
      They give the floor to Natsik liberals and communists because they work on the contrast of opposites. We will not be they. Why don't they give the floor to people not Nazis, not liberals, not communists? Citizens of their country without a clearly defined ideology? Questions can be asked by uncomfortable ones who are not fixated on ideology, and this is scary because the propagandists have no answers.
      1. credo
        credo 11 November 2020 16: 13
        -7
        Quote: ALARI
        They give the floor to Natsik liberals and communists because they work on the contrast of opposites. We will not be they. Why don't they give the floor to people not Nazis, not liberals, not communists? Citizens of their country without a clearly defined ideology? Questions can be asked by uncomfortable ones who are not fixated on ideology, and this is scary because the propagandists have no answers.

        Honestly, gentlemen and comrades, well, take your eyes off the TV at least for a minute and look at the world wider. If you do not like domestic state and commercial TV, set up a television studio at home, connect to the cable channels of your neighbors and broadcast your thoughts and opinions on them, and then we'll see who and for whom your truth and propaganda will be in demand.
        1. ALARI
          ALARI 11 November 2020 16: 20
          +7
          And in broader it is so not to like life do not live? And why should I not look? Maybe they will stop showing? Why are you trying to put people in the position that they are wrong? Television should entertain and develop a person and not endure his brain.
          1. credo
            credo 11 November 2020 16: 44
            -5
            Quote: ALARI
            And in broader it is so not to like life do not live? And why should I not look? Maybe they will stop showing? Why are you trying to put people in the position that they are wrong? Television should entertain and develop a person and not endure his brain.

            Once again, I have already written that on the Russian field of TV and other media you can choose channels and press of any content, including erotic, therefore compatriots have a huge choice in watching news and political programs in accordance with their ideas about truth and lies , and offending the journalists of 1 and 2 channels, as some do here on the site, low and mean, despite the fact that they are not engaged in rabid propaganda and, as the hosts of the programs, have the right to choose their interlocutors with different views and ideas about life.
            That's my whole position, and I don't put anyone in a position, but only write about the fact that
            if you do not like a journalist, this does not mean that you should like him because you look at the world in a completely different way, based on your life experience, education and developed culture of behavior.
            And for entertainment and development there are a lot of other channels where there are no Kiselev, Zeynalova, Brylev and Solovyov, watch them and save your brain and enjoy it since the news is so painful for you. There is a choice, even more than necessary.
            1. ALARI
              ALARI 11 November 2020 17: 00
              +1
              This is good POK, there is a choice. But why on the main buttons of the TV there is only one glance of Kiselev, Zeynalova, Brylev and Solovyov. Where are the opponents? Talking about other sites from the crafty audience is small. This is not a choice but a zombie. It’s still good to look and take notes.
        2. aleksejkabanets
          aleksejkabanets 12 November 2020 01: 11
          -1
          Quote: credo
          You do not like domestic state and commercial TV, so create a TV studio at home,

          Well at least you don't propose to build a fusion.
      2. The popuas
        The popuas 11 November 2020 16: 15
        0
        I support your every word good
      3. ccsr
        ccsr 12 November 2020 12: 18
        +3
        Quote: ALARI
        Why don't they give the floor to people not Nazis, not liberals, not communists? Citizens of their country without a clearly defined ideology?

        So they all hang out on other talk shows - look at Malakhov, DNA and other showdowns of people without ideology, whose main goal is to snatch more from loved ones or make money on a scandal. Are you suggesting that they tell on political broadcasts who fucked whom? Why do you need this?
        By the way, there are people like V. Tretyakov or K. Shakhnazarov who are quite objective and independent in their judgments, and at the same time do not adhere to some guidelines of the ruling bodies - what prevents you from listening to them?
        1. ALARI
          ALARI 12 November 2020 12: 32
          -2
          Why one size fits all, I don't even know about those talk shows you are talking about. What ideology do you say?
          1. ccsr
            ccsr 12 November 2020 12: 56
            +2
            Quote: ALARI
            And what kind of ideology do you say?

            A sane person who has many years of life behind him, and who looks from his bell tower at all events, evaluating them based on his own considerations, and not the words of those who talk on TV. By the way, there are many professionals there, and the fact that they work for money does not surprise me for a long time - this is happening all over the world. Just for comparison, it just so happened that I had to watch television of the GDR, FRG and Soviet at the same time for five years. So believe me, I have a vaccination to take seriously everything that pours from the screen. I think you will come to this with time and will not worry about those who stupidly cut money on the screens - they are not independent and just work out what they are prescribed. By the way, real propaganda professionals were in the special propaganda departments of the political directorates of the border districts, and especially in the groups of troops. I can confirm this, because they were aces, and not those posers who are now chatting from screens pronouncing other people's texts.
            1. ALARI
              ALARI 12 November 2020 17: 09
              0
              Do you think I believe what they say on TV? Especially on our TV sells as the last woman of easy virtue on the track. I am not even outraged by the fact that they sound and in vain you say that they are professionals there. I'm more interested in what kind of people they are and what kind of psyche they have, how they live, do they really believe themselves? It's like an analogy with an executioner, he comes home, and there a loving wife, like the day has passed, kids-dad, what did you bring. Thoughts are material. But no, they are so two-faced that it reflects on them like a stigma. I could understand them if they at least themselves believed in what they say. To worry about this, no. It's a shame that they and their customers consider and perceive all of us as some kind of unicellular. If a person is told every day that he is, then he will become.
              1. ccsr
                ccsr 12 November 2020 18: 05
                +1
                Quote: ALARI
                Especially on our TV sells as the last woman of easy virtue on the track.

                It is less venal than the Western one - I regret opening your eyes to the obvious.
                Quote: ALARI
                I'm more interested in what kind of people they are and what kind of psyche they have, how they live, do they really believe themselves?

                Do you think that doctors only think about the diseases of their patients? So they would have died of stress even earlier than journalists.
                Quote: ALARI
                If a person is told every day that he is, then he will become.

                Not at all necessary. It is enough to try to engage in your self-education or get good from the point of view of the profession, and only then, having achieved success in society, try to understand the processes taking place in it, and believe that over the years you will learn to sweep aside the unnecessary in order to understand true values. For example, I don't give a damn about who and what is now on TV, I'm more worried about whether our ethnos will survive by the end of the 21st century if we adopt Western values. I think that the desertification that we received in addition to capitalism is unlikely to help us survive - this is how I see it ...
    2. Sling cutter
      Sling cutter 11 November 2020 16: 42
      +7
      Quote: credo
      Anyone can offend a journalist, and you and your colleague are also no exception, comparing the point of view of some Russian journalists with Goebbels.

      Journalists? Who do you call journalists, zhurnalushlushek from fed.channels, ready to lie for money constantly and for any reason?
      1. credo
        credo 11 November 2020 17: 01
        +3
        Quote: Stroporez
        Quote: credo
        Anyone can offend a journalist, and you and your colleague are also no exception, comparing the point of view of some Russian journalists with Goebbels.

        Journalists? Who do you call journalists, zhurnalushlushek from fed.channels, ready to lie for money constantly and for any reason?

        The discussion that began smoothly turned into a rough dispute with the transition to personalities and their insults.
        I have expressed my opinion in defense of domestic journalists, whom you call so vile and undeservedly, and I am not going to change it, because I think that they did not deserve this at all.
        As for money, then you did not discover America here, because, I will tell you a secret, in the real world everyone tries to work for money and only some tribes of the aborigines of Africa, South America, Australia and Oceania live by subsistence farming, but this is an exception and your reproach reporters is not justified.
        Watch the news from Piggy and Stepashka. They usually speak only the truth and are not involved in politics. Very educational programs for children and vulnerable adults.
        1. Sling cutter
          Sling cutter 11 November 2020 17: 10
          +4
          Quote: credo
          The discussion that began smoothly turned into a rough dispute with the transition to personalities and their insults.
          I have expressed my opinion in defense of domestic journalists, whom you call so vile and undeservedly, and I am not going to change it, because I think that they did not deserve this at all.

          I, like you, also expressed my opinion and I do not consider it possible to change it.
        2. solzh
          solzh 15 November 2020 03: 37
          16
          Quote: credo
          Watch the news from Piggy and Stepashka.

          Very good transmission. It's a pity my son grew up, but it became not interesting for me alone to watch. My grandchildren will go and start watching again. bully
      2. Lexus
        Lexus 11 November 2020 17: 18
        +3
        Greetings, Comrade! hi It hasn't been seen for a long time. Hope all is well. wink

        1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 11 November 2020 17: 37
          -6
          Here he does not:
          1. Lexus
            Lexus 11 November 2020 21: 29
            0
            Hello hi ,
            thought so too bully
    3. New Year day
      New Year day 11 November 2020 16: 45
      +6
      Quote: credo
      Unlike Goebbels, the listed journalists give the floor to the most terrifying Nazis and stubborn liberals and ardent communists.

      examples in the studio, colleague.
      The goal of these propagandists
    4. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 11 November 2020 16: 57
      -2
      Quote: credo
      I would have looked at you if you had the opportunity to meet face to face with Goebbels in Nazi Germany, so that you "sang" to him in a personal meeting.

      Lily Marlene would sing. But to myself, of course - oh yes, the steppe is wide
    5. WIKI
      WIKI 11 November 2020 17: 24
      +2
      Quote: credo
      the listed journalists give the floor to the most terry Nazis and stubborn liberals and ardent communists.

      I would replace all the definitions listed by you with one. It is necessary to give the floor to competent people, operating numbers and facts. I would love to watch such a discussion.
      1. Gene84
        Gene84 13 November 2020 16: 43
        18
        Quote: WIKI
        It is necessary to give the floor to competent people operating with numbers and facts

        Only such people can confuse the minds of viewers so that people are completely lost ... hi
        1. WIKI
          WIKI 13 November 2020 20: 42
          +1
          Figures and facts can only be refuted in the same way, and the one who has nothing to cover loses. To understand this from the outside, who is right, you don't need a lot of mind.
  3. The popuas
    The popuas 11 November 2020 16: 11
    +4
    50% don't believe their eyes ... and TV is like their own thoughts fool there are enough of them in a personal environment! angry sometimes you start feeding them with facts, so there just a brain explosion occurs in me wassat they have
  4. tatra
    tatra 11 November 2020 16: 17
    +7
    This is exactly what Putin's propagandists have told you about the minuses, and now they will tell me. If Soviet propaganda was "
    in the face of morality, "and it was FOR, then the propaganda of the enemies of the communists after their capture of Russia-malicious, aggressive, slanderous, cowardly, boorish AGAINST, including Putin's paid propagandists.
  5. for
    for 11 November 2020 16: 27
    +4
    Quote: Svarog
    But the question is, why do people choose to lie?

    Because lies are always sweet. As they say: "Tell the bitter, but the truth."
    1. Gene84
      Gene84 13 November 2020 16: 43
      16
      Unfortunately, not everyone is ready to hear the bitter truth. Some want to hear exactly what they are being told in sweet lies ...
      1. solzh
        solzh 15 November 2020 03: 38
        14
        Everything is very simple colleague. With the bitter truth of life, people meet every day. Sometimes people want to believe that there is another "truth", beautiful, albeit illusory ...
  6. A. Privalov
    A. Privalov 11 November 2020 17: 21
    +6
    Quote: Svarog
    why do people choose to lie? Do they like to be deceived?

    Because a person is much easier to deceive than to explain to him that he was deceived.
  7. kalibr
    kalibr 11 November 2020 18: 29
    +1
    Quote: Svarog
    And in the Union, the propaganda was truthful, based on the truth ..

    Oh, don't! It is enough to read the newspaper Pravda and compare its events and reality ...
    1. Sling cutter
      Sling cutter 11 November 2020 18: 43
      +2
      Quote: kalibr
      Oh, don't! It is enough to read the newspaper Pravda and compare its events and reality ...

      And you try, for example, to refute the construction of the BAM or the development of the Virgin Lands, or even better, say that there is no Gagarin rocket. Weak?
      1. kalibr
        kalibr 11 November 2020 19: 19
        +3
        You just go to my profile and read articles about the content of the newspaper Pravda. There was a series of articles "The Poisoned Feather". Everything is there with links to articles in newspapers.
      2. kalibr
        kalibr 11 November 2020 19: 53
        +3
        Quote: Stroporez
        And you try, for example, to refute the construction of the BAM or the development of the Virgin Lands, or even better, say that there is no Gagarin rocket. Weak?

        It was argued that the USSR was a mighty bulwark of peace and socialism. It was argued that the people and the party are one. It was asserted that "the Party is our helmsman" ...
        Under the sun of the Motherland we are strengthening the year
        from year,
        We are faithless to the cause of Lenin.
        The communist pariah of the country is calling the Soviet peoples to deeds (Mikhalkov wrote, and Kobzon sang!)
        It was asserted, right? And then came the 91st. The "Soviet peoples" ran somewhere, the party did not want to steer, the party and the people were not united, the communists themselves did not go to the barricades, the mighty stronghold collapsed without a single shot. And it turns out that there was BAM, and there was a rocket, but everything that I later wrote was also there. And this turned out to be more important than all the rockets we launched!
        1. Svarog
          Svarog 11 November 2020 20: 04
          +5
          Quote: kalibr
          And this turned out to be more important than all the rockets we launched!

          It was all .. but it will all come back, in a different form, more progressive, but it will definitely come back. And the main thing will be the opportunity to eliminate all mistakes and increase the best.
          1. kalibr
            kalibr 11 November 2020 21: 39
            0
            Quote: Svarog
            And the main thing will be the opportunity to eliminate all mistakes and increase the best.

            I've been writing on VO for many years now. I write a lot and seem to be interesting. It develops, right? It develops information ... And at least something has changed? No! There are people, yes, who like my articles more than others, to whom they give more. But ... in general, their DROP IN THE SEA. And who has eliminated at least some mistakes during this time?
            1. Svarog
              Svarog 11 November 2020 21: 56
              +2
              Quote: kalibr
              And at least something has changed? No! There are people, yes, who like my articles more than others, to whom they give more.

              You have wonderful articles about history, weapons .. But when you talk about the history of the USSR about the period when 30-40, or even 50 years passed .. it is true, but the truth, which is taken out of the context of time .. and for young people this truth will not give anything now, except as a rejection of the socialist idea .. But it is not correct to talk only about the basement ... when a wonderful building was built, whose facade did not have time to finish .. I do not know how much I could explain .. but I hope that I will still be understood.
              And a lot has changed, I have been on the site for 6 years .. and I see that the thinking of the majority is changing and changing in the right direction ..
              And who has eliminated at least some mistakes during this time?

              The main thing is that mistakes begin to see .. and to eliminate, this is the next stage.
              1. kalibr
                kalibr 11 November 2020 22: 02
                -2
                "He will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand; and the rain fell, and the rivers overflowed, and the winds blew, and fell on that house; and it fell, and it was a great fall." Gospel according to Matthew. They didn't have time to finish the facade, right? And from this he fell apart? Don't tell my slippers! And about young people ... I worked with her until 2017. Now my granddaughter is studying at a Moscow college (branch), does not let me stagnate in ignorance. Will be here more about youth!
                1. Svarog
                  Svarog 11 November 2020 22: 19
                  +1
                  Quote: kalibr
                  "He will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand; and the rain fell, and the rivers overflowed, and the winds blew, and fell on that house; and it fell, and it was a great fall." Gospel according to Matthew. They didn't have time to finish the facade, right? And from this he fell apart? Don't tell my slippers! And about young people ... I worked with her until 2017. Now my granddaughter is studying at a Moscow college (branch), does not let me stagnate in ignorance. Will be here more about youth!

                  He didn’t fall because they didn’t have time to finish the facade .. You did not understand correctly what I wrote .. well, okay, you cannot be persuaded .. you have long formed your own idea.
                  And why it fell is a separate topic .. Capitalism collapses regularly, but no one notices it, due to the fact that it is being restored, and it is being restored because there is no other alternative .. Capitalism always reads from accumulation, then ruin and then war, then accumulation again .. this cycle does not stop ..
                  The collapse of socialism occurred for many reasons, and the main ones are:
                  - Excessive closeness
                  - Misplaced priorities (after Stalin's death)
                  - Incorrectly built management system, which should change and strive for efficiency, but on the contrary, it was overgrown with scabs ..
                  -Incorrect motivation of heads of enterprises
                  - And of course the "help" of the enemies ..
                  All these mistakes were made after the period of Stalin's rule, during his period, the system was constantly updated and was flexible, according to the challenges of that time, hence the results.
        2. Overlock
          Overlock 11 November 2020 21: 11
          20
          Quote: kalibr
          It was argued that the USSR was a mighty bulwark of peace and socialism. It was argued that the people and the party are one. It was asserted that "the Party is our helmsman" ...
          Under the sun of the Motherland we are strengthening the year
          from year,
          We are faithless to the cause of Lenin.
          The communist pariah of the country is calling the Soviet peoples to deeds (Mikhalkov wrote, and Kobzon sang!)
          It was asserted, right?

          approved! But, damn it, how peacefully we lived in the USSR!
          1. kalibr
            kalibr 11 November 2020 22: 06
            0
            Quote: Overlock
            But, damn it, how peacefully we lived in the USSR!

            And I won't even argue about it. My wife and I constantly remember that time. And nevertheless: everything was good, but fell apart. Now many things are not good, but they are not falling apart .... What do we choose?
    2. Svarog
      Svarog 11 November 2020 19: 13
      +6
      Quote: kalibr

      Oh, don't! It is enough to read the newspaper Pravda and compare its events and reality ...

      Truth in the USSR was true and truthfully told about all the delights of capitalism. But naturally, there was propaganda, but again true .. If we were told that in five years they were going to build a giant Kamaz plant, as well as a city for half a million people .. that was the case .. And now we are told about breakthroughs .. but they don't exist in real life .. Do you feel the difference?
      1. kalibr
        kalibr 11 November 2020 19: 21
        +5
        Quote: Svarog
        And now we are told about breakthroughs .. but they are not in real life .. Do you feel the difference?

        And this is exactly the same rake that would not be worth stepping on. It turns out that by allowing the destruction of the USSR, we took from his experience not the best, but the worst, and in significant quantities.
        1. Svarog
          Svarog 11 November 2020 19: 55
          +1
          It turns out that by allowing the destruction of the USSR, we took from his experience not the best, but the worst, and in significant quantities.

          That's right!
        2. Overlock
          Overlock 11 November 2020 21: 13
          17
          Quote: kalibr
          It turns out that by allowing the destruction of the USSR, we took from his experience not the best, but the worst, and in significant quantities.

          just like that in everything. Can you find at least one example in the history of the country when the king / secretary general / president left himself? Only EBN did it and then it was forced. And the rest? - Only feet forward, with fanfare.
          We can say that the evolution of the country occurs only after the next corpse.
          So it will be this time too
        3. Lexus
          Lexus 11 November 2020 21: 40
          0
          Vyacheslav Olegovich hi ,
          it so happened that we took the worst from all socio-political systems. And all good mysteriously sank into oblivion. I do not object to revising the mistakes of the past, but it would be correct, for the sake of objectivity, to compare them with the present day in the context of "it was-now". I understand that they can "slap a hat," but the truth cannot be one-sided, but selective justice.
          1. kalibr
            kalibr 11 November 2020 22: 08
            +1
            It is quite logical, I am only "for". But such research is a very difficult thing, and most importantly ... DOES EVERYONE HAVE INTELLIGENCE TO UNDERSTAND ITS RESULTS? About pigs and oranges when it was said, and something has changed?
            1. Lexus
              Lexus 11 November 2020 22: 27
              +1
              The average salary in Russia is when one person receives 2000000, and 100 others receive 8000 rubles each. Then, on average, they receive 27000 rubles. And now in simple terms: Petya has 10 apples, and Vasya has 0, on average, both have 5 apples. Officials eat meat, and I eat cabbage, on average we eat cabbage rolls. The wife of the collective farm director Manya sleeps with everyone, and the milkmaid Luda does not give to anyone, but on average they are both "ladies with reduced social responsibility." This is how we live. (C)

              Write for us, your readers. Only now no one will allow you to see the REAL statistics on a cannon shot, the amount of meat from a surrogate sausage, if you wish, cannot be isolated. You can't compare about computers - technology has gone far all over the world. And something else. But life expectancy, criminality, the number of violent deaths, officials per "unit of a person" and so on - what you can feel on your own "skin". Import-export is a good estimate. That which is visible to the naked eye. Why not? request
              1. kalibr
                kalibr 12 November 2020 07: 39
                +1
                I agree! Moreover, just with statistics, not everything is so bad, there is something.
                1. Lexus
                  Lexus 12 November 2020 16: 35
                  +1
                  Only not "official unsubscriptions approved from above". I know how they are "cooked".
          2. kalibr
            kalibr 11 November 2020 22: 09
            +6
            Quote: lexus
            it so happened that we took the worst from all socio-political systems. And all good mysteriously sank into oblivion.

            You have noticed this well. But if I give the reason, you will not agree!
            1. Svarog
              Svarog 11 November 2020 22: 38
              +2
              Quote: kalibr
              You have noticed this well. But if I give the reason, you will not agree!

              Here is the reason .. it is banal .. our "grabber" simply serve Western corporations .. and sell everything ..
              1. Lexus
                Lexus 11 November 2020 22: 59
                +2
                Grabber do not want to repeat the fate of Kisa Vorobyaninov, who saw a club instead of jewelry. Everything "privatized" should be "formalized" in portions, in volumes available for export to future "fatherlands" and for sale.
              2. kalibr
                kalibr 12 November 2020 07: 54
                +4
                Quote: Svarog
                um, that's the reason .. it's banal .. our "grabber" just serve Western corporations .. and sell everything ..

                So I knew ... The simpler, the better ... Alas, but this is only a consequence, not a cause.
            2. Lexus
              Lexus 11 November 2020 22: 49
              +1
              Even without you, I know that almost all of those who are now "illegally enriching" on an indecent scale have a party past. In the material containing "cause-effect-decision", the last point will certainly fall under Article 280 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation. And without this it will be a "blank shot". Therefore, if you take it, limit yourself to the estimated parameters. We will understand you. But do not evade the truth in this case. I will never believe that you are confident in the successful future of your descendants in the current Russian Federation and are Nordic calm about their present.
              1. kalibr
                kalibr 12 November 2020 07: 41
                +3
                Quote: lexus
                I will never believe that you are confident in the successful future of your descendants in the current Russian Federation and are Nordic calm for their present.

                Of course not. But I did EVERYTHING to make them ready FOR EVERYTHING!
    3. Xnumx vis
      Xnumx vis 11 November 2020 23: 05
      0
      Quote: kalibr
      Quote: Svarog
      And in the Union, the propaganda was truthful, based on the truth ..

      Oh, don't! It is enough to read the newspaper Pravda and compare its events and reality ...

      I remembered an anecdote from the Soviet era. - "a person asks at the kiosk soyuz.print" Can I - Truth and Health -. Answer - There is no truth, Health is over, only Labor remains.
    4. aleksejkabanets
      aleksejkabanets 12 November 2020 01: 18
      0
      Quote: kalibr
      Oh, don't! It is enough to read the newspaper Pravda and compare its events and reality ...

      If you read the newspaper Pravda today, it will become clear that she wrote the truth about capitalism.
  • credo
    credo 11 November 2020 15: 31
    -7
    ".... Compared to the current pro-government propaganda, Goebbels's" nervously smokes on the sidelines. "
    ---------------------------------------------
    I do not like propaganda on 1 and 2 channels, turn on Rain, Echo and other liberal media and enjoy the opposite opinion. What is the problem?
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            1. Ross xnumx
              Ross xnumx 11 November 2020 17: 05
              +2
              Quote: credo
              You and I have different ideas about propaganda and about those people who work in the domestic media.

              These are the people about whom we can say:


              Yes? Or are they those "shy patriots" who choose from all the arguments those recommended by "United Russia"? These are the people who are always worried about the state of affairs in (in) Ukraine and absolutely “to the light” what is happening in Siberia and the Far East? Petty people, chatting up anyone who tries to tell the truth ... For them, a doctor of historical sciences is a sickle at causal places. And various "liars" from the Baltic States and Poland are welcome guests.
              Indeed, you and I have different ideas about propaganda. You are a supporter of the one who does not care what the results will be after the "outpouring". And in our time, propaganda opened the eyes of people deprived of the media to various aspects. We did not have propaganda of speculation, embezzlement and corruption. And therefore there were much fewer propagandists than today, because: the truth is always one!
      2. VORON538
        VORON538 11 November 2020 16: 01
        -1
        Then watch bibisi, all sorts of "realities", unian and the voice of america hi
        there is no propaganda, or is there? what
      3. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 11 November 2020 19: 04
        0
        Rosneft is the one that saved on emergency power supply to the floating dock, and where is it now? And what about "Kuzey" now?
    2. tatra
      tatra 11 November 2020 16: 24
      +1
      Who cares ? After your capture of Russia, the enemies of the Communists were divided into those in power and for power, and those who portray the opposition. BUT none of you with your
      "freedom of speech", which you so longed for under the Soviet regime, is not capable of discussing anything honestly, objectively, adequately, all of you together are angry against everything Soviet, and all together brag about how you all under the Yeltsin-Putin government "and now it is better than in the USSR "NOT because you did anything useful for Russia and the Russian people, but because you got a lot of things.
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  • WIKI
    WIKI 11 November 2020 17: 04
    +3
    Quote: lexus
    If we ourselves give up positive and constructive propaganda within our society,

    All these ornate verbal intricacies I associate with one word. DECEPTION.
    1. Gene84
      Gene84 13 November 2020 16: 42
      19
      Today's propaganda, like advertising, is sharpened precisely for deception, and for nothing more.
  • Svarog
    Svarog 11 November 2020 15: 12
    +6
    In the collapse of the USSR, propaganda played a significant role, quite subtly organized by the countries of the collective West. During the destruction of the Soviet Union, the main forces of propaganda were thrown into denial and demonization of everything Soviet.

    Absolutely correct conclusion.
    If we ourselves renounce positive and constructive propaganda within our society, then the propaganda destroying our country will be imposed on us from the outside - as they say: “a holy place is never empty”. And, unfortunately, it has already been imposed on us in part: it can be seen with the naked eye.

    Again, true. Only the author did not indicate that the only constructive propaganda that exists is the propaganda of socialism
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 11 November 2020 18: 43
      +5
      Quote: Svarog
      the only creative propaganda that exists is the propaganda of socialism

      If this were so, we would still live under socialism in the USSR. What surprises me in general? It seems that adults have gathered here, but they attach such great importance to words. The word is air, so he said it and ... no. There is a rule of advertising - I tell you this as a person who taught PR and advertising from 1995 to 2017. that after 90 +1 days 90% of people forget 90% of what they have read or written and you can give it again. Therefore, only one thing matters: who pays to whom and how much - and the margin. And the mass of judgments here are just pearls. But how many times have I already written: I have a textbook for universities "Internet journalism and Internet advertising", and also "Technologies of public opinion management" (Infra-Engineering). Well, you wonder - buy, read, you will understand a lot. But no - we are all specialists in everything, including propaganda. That is why we are in such an ass and sit: for us a specialist is a dentist, and everyone else - I know better!
      1. Svarog
        Svarog 11 November 2020 18: 58
        +2
        Quote: kalibr
        If this were so, we would still live under socialism in the USSR.

        Not necessarily ... the article just says:
        In the collapse of the USSR, propaganda played a significant role, quite subtly organized by the countries of the collective West.

        and I agree with that ..
        It seems that adults have gathered here, but they attach such great importance to words.

        In the beginning there was a word ..
        And the mass of judgments here are just pearls.

        This is your estimated vision .. but your fee also depends on it .. just as it depends on people who publish or write books .. And what's wrong with that? A good platform for discussion and discussion ..
        And the mass of judgments here are just pearls.

        And how many pearls does the country's leadership give out?
        But no - we are all specialists in everything, including propaganda. That is why we are in such an ass and sit: for us a specialist is a dentist, and everyone else - I know better!

        I agree .. I do not consider myself a propaganda specialist .. laughing
        1. kalibr
          kalibr 11 November 2020 19: 33
          +2
          Quote: Svarog
          And how many pearls does the country's leadership give out?

          This is bad. The fact is that the bulk of people strive in life to reach the limit of their incompetence. And that's okay! But when representatives of the authorities strive to such a limit, instead of learning ... It's rubbish. For example, we have a deputy in our city. He started with an athlete, defended his dissertation "throwing a disc by an athlete with his left hand" (!), Then a doctorate in sociology, took up business ... Not the worst deputy. By the way ... I somehow came to the people for re-election. And guess where you started from once? "America is threatening us!" Well, you're a district deputy, what the hell is America to you? But ... like that, and people are sitting, nodding in understanding.
          1. Overlock
            Overlock 11 November 2020 21: 17
            18
            Quote: kalibr
            "America is threatening us!" Well, you're a district deputy, what the hell is America to you?

            exactly said. So we have as something happens, "America is to blame", and the fact that the slob and the thief rule, they do not notice.
          2. ccsr
            ccsr 12 November 2020 12: 29
            +4
            Quote: kalibr
            Well, you're a district deputy, what the hell is America to you?

            Why did the Penzyaks elect such a person - did he manipulate the results of your elections?
            1. kalibr
              kalibr 12 November 2020 12: 35
              +2
              And that's why they chose - let someone if only not me!
        2. kalibr
          kalibr 11 November 2020 19: 34
          0
          Quote: Svarog
          This is your estimated vision .. but your fee also depends on it ..

          My fee does not depend on what I write here!
        3. kalibr
          kalibr 11 November 2020 19: 36
          +2
          Quote: Svarog
          In the beginning there was a word ..

          There are clichés that seem to look good, impressive ... In fact, they are not true!
  • Doccor18
    Doccor18 11 November 2020 15: 13
    +7
    how many of you always tell the truth, only the truth and nothing else?

    Propaganda and truth are different. Propaganda was created in order, if necessary, to make anything, even the most absurd, believable, that is, the truth.
    Therefore, you should not unconditionally trust everything that the media and propagandists tell you, both from the authorities and from the opposition.

    Just landmark advice.
    1. Lexus
      Lexus 11 November 2020 16: 36
      +3
      Yeah, Cap-style advice. But no one regulates the media this - the same crap not to say.
  • Comrade Kim
    Comrade Kim 11 November 2020 15: 25
    11
    "Is it always necessary to tell only one truth?"
    The author of the article asks a question, to which a venerable (terry) politician has already answered very intelligibly back in 2012:

  • Undecim
    Undecim 11 November 2020 15: 37
    +1
    Advocacy is effective if the following conditions are met:
    - there is a clearly formulated goal (in my opinion, this is the most important condition that is completely absent in our country at the present time);

    Here, the author, obviously following the example of a Viking listening to a saga, decided not to tell the truth, that is, he lied.
    1. Uncle lee
      Uncle lee 11 November 2020 16: 02
      12
      Quote: Undecim
      Advocacy is effective
    2. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 11 November 2020 17: 15
      +4
      Quote: Undecim
      Advocacy is effective if the following conditions are met:

      Quote: Undecim
      Advocacy is effective if the following conditions are met:

      The effectiveness of propaganda is not determined by the presence of foam at the mouth, the loudness of the sound, or the set of facts and arguments. Here everything is much simpler: will the “intoxicated by propaganda” go without payment, by the will of his heart, to do “great deeds” in the name of the propagated ideas? And then, as it turns out, in fact, "propaganda" can only be for very big money and only for a paid public.
  • maktub
    maktub 11 November 2020 15: 57
    +6
    As one friend says, if you want to distinguish truth from propaganda, open the refrigerator laughing
    1. VORON538
      VORON538 11 November 2020 16: 06
      -8
      the trip to the Europeans for the panties failed so you switched to Russia?
      1. maktub
        maktub 11 November 2020 16: 11
        +8
        Aren't you sick by accident? Sounds like a delusional disorder.
        What are you painful about?
        1. VORON538
          VORON538 11 November 2020 16: 25
          -10 qualifying.
          Ukrainian, what are you talking about? About your phobias? So this is to those who promised you! lol
          1. maktub
            maktub 11 November 2020 16: 29
            +8
            You should put a semantic load in at least one post so that normal people understand the course of your thoughts laughing
            1. VORON538
              VORON538 11 November 2020 16: 33
              -11 qualifying.
              and your normal ones are those who rode on the Maidan
              So these have long been living in their parallel universe. hi
              1. maktub
                maktub 11 November 2020 16: 40
                +6
                I see that you are one of the same, but with a different polarity sign
                Mine are those that create added value
    2. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 11 November 2020 17: 19
      +6
      Quote: maktub
      As one friend says, if you want to distinguish truth from propaganda, open the refrigerator

      And you can ask about the size of the salary and the working hours; ask questions about the availability of bank accounts and real estate abroad; ask where the offspring studied and what they do; whether the wife and relatives have a secret business beyond the cordon ... lol
      1. maktub
        maktub 11 November 2020 17: 46
        -1
        Smiled.
        A mold of the key to the apartment where the money is, won't you suit? laughing
        Let's just say, an ordinary pensioner
  • ALARI
    ALARI 11 November 2020 16: 02
    +2
    Those who use propaganda show their weakness. Let us recall the phrase from the film Brother2 - What is the power, in the truth. The strong do not need to hide lies behind propaganda. Truth is not propaganda.
  • Lech from Android.
    Lech from Android. 11 November 2020 16: 21
    0
    Everything is simple here, the enemy must be beaten with his own weapon, according to his own rules.
    We have always won such fights.
  • Radikal
    Radikal 11 November 2020 16: 21
    +8
    Quote: credo
    ".... Compared to the current pro-government propaganda, Goebbels's" nervously smokes on the sidelines. "
    ---------------------------------------------
    I do not like propaganda on 1 and 2 channels, turn on Rain, Echo and other liberal media and enjoy the opposite opinion. What is the problem?

    And if we don’t love them, then who’s watching? lol wassat
    1. Lexus
      Lexus 11 November 2020 16: 30
      +1
      Colleague hi,
      they tear for the sake of the person on the elevators "there". Well, they regularly "narcissize" themselves. lol
    2. Arlen
      Arlen 11 November 2020 17: 36
      +9
      Quote: Radikal
      And if we don’t love them, then who’s watching?

      TV channel SPAS wink wassat
      1. Gene84
        Gene84 13 November 2020 16: 48
        17
        Quote: Arlen
        TV channel SPAS

        It is better to watch cartoons on the Carousel TV channel. bully
        1. Arlen
          Arlen 13 November 2020 18: 41
          +2
          Quote: Gene84
          It's better to watch cartoons on the Carousel TV channel

          good
          I watch when I have free time repeat
    3. parusnik
      parusnik 11 November 2020 18: 17
      +6
      And if we don’t love them, then who’s watching?
      Of two evils, choose the lesser ... Choose 1 and 2 channels .. laughing And this happens constantly during the presidential and Duma elections. laughing
      1. Lexus
        Lexus 11 November 2020 21: 47
        0
        Select 1 and 2 channel.

        And nafik remove them from the channel lists. laughing Alexey hi .
        1. Malyuta
          Malyuta 11 November 2020 21: 55
          +2
          Quote: lexus
          And nafik remove them from channel lists

          Better yet, throw the zomboy out. Long ago I stopped watching it. All the news only on the Internet I read and watch.
          Hi! hi
          1. Lexus
            Lexus 11 November 2020 22: 02
            0
            They were released after all. hi
            Sometimes I watch documentaries (not "breakthrough") and movies (the same) on the cable channel, because the computer monitor is too small and the sound is not at all what I would like.
          2. Gene84
            Gene84 13 November 2020 16: 41
            16
            Quote: Malyuta
            Better yet, throw the zomboy out. Long ago I stopped watching it.

            And don't watch the pre-election debates?
  • Radikal
    Radikal 11 November 2020 16: 24
    +6
    Quote: maktub
    As one friend says, if you want to distinguish truth from propaganda, open the refrigerator laughing

    AND...? sad
    1. VORON538
      VORON538 11 November 2020 16: 28
      -5
      And there he has "Welkam Tu Poland" and a photo of Poroshenko wink
      1. maktub
        maktub 11 November 2020 17: 05
        +3
        Smiled. By the way, the article is about you, especially in terms of stamps. Reread only this time carefully laughing
    2. maktub
      maktub 11 November 2020 16: 57
      +1
      If the media tell you that life has become better, life has become more fun, and the mouse hangs itself in the refrigerator, then it has definitely become "more fun" laughing
  • tatra
    tatra 11 November 2020 16: 35
    0
    Gorbachev's anticommunist perestroika is a "moment of truth" when all citizens of the USSR showed their true essence, and in particular, it immediately became clear what a huge number of people in the USSR with low intelligence, unable to think independently, analyze incoming information, stupidly, thoughtlessly, amenable to anti-Soviet propaganda, even the most deceitful and delusional, even about what cannot be at all, such as the fact that one country can feed the whole world, the people can defeat the enemy who attacked the country in spite of the power of their country, throwing corpses on the enemy.
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 11 November 2020 18: 47
      +3
      Quote: tatra
      when all the citizens of the USSR showed their real essence, and in particular, it immediately became clear what a huge number of people in the USSR with low intelligence, unable to think independently, analyze the incoming information, stupidly, thoughtlessly, amenable to anti-Soviet propaganda, even the most deceitful and delusional

      Here Irina, I completely agree with you. But having made such a conclusion, find the courage in yourself to do the second one: they were not wound up from dust and did not make them with fingers. They have become like that in the COUNTRY OF SOCIALISM!
      1. tatra
        tatra 11 November 2020 19: 12
        -2
        Ha, well, so the Bolsheviks and their supporters "did not start from the dust", they became like that in the COUNTRY OF CAPITALISM. Well, in general, this is again a 30-year-old cowardly whining of the enemies of the communists who seized Russia / the USSR "and we have nothing to do with it, it's all the communists are to blame." Cowardice, the fear of the slightest hint of responsibility for what they have done are some of the main qualities of the enemies of the communists, with whom they seriously think that they are more than communists and their supporters worthy to lead the country.
        1. kalibr
          kalibr 11 November 2020 19: 26
          +2
          Quote: tatra
          Ha, well, so the Bolsheviks and their supporters "did not start from the dust", they became like that in the COUNTRY OF CAPITALISM.

          And in this you are absolutely right and the dignity of the people of that era was mixed with disadvantages. It is important WHAT WAS MORE. If you remember 91, then there were more flaws. By the way, I can take your words outlined above as an epigraph to an article about ... the socio-political development of the country? You very succinctly described the situation ...
  • Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
    Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 11 November 2020 16: 43
    -2
    About nothing.
    Such a cultural array must be removed in layers)
    Separately - the war propaganda of the First World War is a whole microcosm. How the Parliament had to slightly upset the presumptuous propagandists with their "Huns devour Flemish babies!", "Huns rape Carmelites!", "Huns crucified the British fusilier !!!" (by the way, about crucifixes, hmm ..) The Germans were in shock, but the lesson came in handy in the future.
    Separately - about the participation of showbiz in this bacchanalia. Also an interesting topic.
    In general, as comrade Kapitsa said in the cult transmission of our childhood - "the topic is waiting for its researcher"))
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 11 November 2020 17: 38
      +3
      Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Separately - the war propaganda of the First World War is a whole microcosm. How the Parliament had to slightly upset the presumptuous propagandists with their "Huns devour Flemish babies!", "Huns rape Carmelites!", "Huns crucified the British fusilier !!!" (by the way, about crucifixes, hmm ..) The Germans were in shock, but the lesson came in handy in the future.

      After about 30 years, everything repeated itself: first "kill the german", and then "comrade Ehrenburg simplifies".
      However, calls for murder based on ethnicity were ubiquitous in WWII. Here is a poster based on the Democracy Traders (Tulagi, 1943) - a quote from Admiral Halsey:
      1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 11 November 2020 18: 06
        -1
        Quote: Alexey RA
        After about 30 years, everything repeated itself: first, "kill the German", and then "Comrade Ehrenburg simplifies."
        However, calls for murder based on ethnicity were ubiquitous in WWII.

        Absolutely right.
        Alexey, I also advocate filming this topic in layers - this is an interesting phenomenon. Passionate asses must not be allowed to him, who have started another sabbath here)
        Kulturtragerstvo, aesthetics of visual cannibalism, poster stimulation of base reflections, elevated to national virtue - this is ..... Remember the flowers from "The Mystery of the Third Planet"? Layer by layer ...))
  • parusnik
    parusnik 11 November 2020 17: 09
    +4
    ... From the point of view of formal logic, the article shows examples of true-false judgments that we operate in life without thinking about it. No, sometimes we use true judgments. But in such a subject of research as propaganda, mostly true-false judgments prevail.
  • A. Privalov
    A. Privalov 11 November 2020 17: 18
    +4
    When a Yandex interface developer suddenly starts writing books, the result is appropriate. It is not clear only who the author was counting on. Does he consider his readers to be complete idiots who easily and without hesitation will swallow scientific-like chewing gum? Otherwise, how can an old anecdote be placed in the book under the guise of a real example of propaganda?
    “Well-armed Palestinians with their fists attacked the Israeli soldiers who were peacefully sitting in tanks. The soldiers received severe mental trauma. The Palestinians escaped with light deaths. "
    1. A. Privalov
      A. Privalov 11 November 2020 18: 01
      +1
      The book "Encyclopedia of Propaganda Methods" was written by
      in 2002 Victor Sorochenko. There is even this anecdote and also in the "Shifting emphasis" section.
      In a word, we are also dealing with plagiarism.
      1. forester1971
        11 November 2020 21: 34
        +6
        If you do not read the entire article in full or do not read it carefully, then these are definitely not the author's problems. It's not nice to blame a person for something that he definitely did not do.
        [/ quote] Considering and analyzing methods, methods of propaganda, you can refer to the "Encyclopedia of Propaganda Methods" by Viktor Sorochenko, which popularly describes the most common techniques. Here are just a few of them:

        "Shifting emphasis". I consider it necessary to quote only one passage:

        “Well-armed Palestinians with their fists attacked the Israeli soldiers who were peacefully sitting in tanks. The soldiers received severe mental trauma. The Palestinians escaped with light deaths. "

        And this is only a small part of the "Encyclopedia of Propaganda Methods". I don't think it's worth reprinting all of it here. And whoever wants to can read this book on their own. [Quote]
        1. kalibr
          kalibr 11 November 2020 21: 43
          0
          Dmitry! Understand that articles of this size, 22 characters, are not readable or perceived. It is simply impossible to read it carefully. Learn to write in 8-8,5 thousand characters. Maximum 10.
    2. forester1971
      11 November 2020 22: 10
      +4
      You write directly, as in an article - according to one of the propaganda methods: "hang up labels." Where did you get that I am
      [/ quote] by a Yandex interface developer [quote]
      ... Insulting another person, especially just like that, is definitely not a sign of high intelligence.
      1. A. Privalov
        A. Privalov 11 November 2020 22: 36
        0
        Insults and my intelligence ...
        Are you Vadim Makiashvili?
        https://pda.litres.ru/vadim-urevich-makishvili/
        1. forester1971
          11 November 2020 22: 49
          +1
          Maybe I didn't understand you. Whose address are your comments written to:
          1.
          [/ quote] "When a Yandex interface developer suddenly starts writing books, the result is appropriate. It is not clear only who the author was counting on. Does he really consider his readers to be complete idiots who will easily and without hesitation swallow a scientific chewing gum? an example of propaganda in the book is an old anecdote?
          “Well-armed Palestinians with their fists attacked the Israeli soldiers who were peacefully sitting in tanks. The soldiers received severe mental trauma. Palestinians escaped with light deaths "
          .
          2.
          "The book" Encyclopedia of Propaganda Methods "was written by
          in 2002 Victor Sorochenko. There is even this anecdote and also in the "Shifting emphasis" section.
          In a word, we are also dealing with plagiarism [quote]
          .
          If this is not addressed to me, then I was mistaken.
          1. A. Privalov
            A. Privalov 11 November 2020 23: 02
            +4
            Dear forester 1971, I did not notice in your article the mention of the author you are citing. I found a book by Vadim Makiashvili on the Internet (he is a layout designer from Yandex) and immediately ran into him :). Then I discovered a book by Viktor Sorochenko with a very similar title and content. It was written at the beginning of the century, respectively, was suspected of plagiarism in a later book by Makiashvili. Personally, my remarks have absolutely nothing to do with you. hi
    3. ccsr
      ccsr 12 November 2020 12: 34
      +1
      Quote: A. Privalov
      When a Yandex interface developer suddenly starts writing books, the result is appropriate. It is not clear only who the author was counting on. Does he really consider his readers to be complete idiots who easily and without hesitation will swallow scientific-like chewing gum?

      But after all, the Jews in the USSR swallowed this gum and rushed to their historical homeland, do you think they are idiots too, or was it another kind of propaganda, the so-called "honest" in which such as Sharansky, Bonner and others distinguished themselves? After all, they were exactly "Yandex developers" in your understanding, and you listened to them - didn't you? Only it is not clear why not all Soviet Jews reached Israel ...
  • Radikal
    Radikal 11 November 2020 17: 27
    +1
    Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
    About nothing.
    Such a cultural array must be removed in layers)
    Separately - the war propaganda of the First World War is a whole microcosm. How the Parliament had to slightly upset the presumptuous propagandists with their "Huns devour Flemish babies!", "Huns rape Carmelites!", "Huns crucified the British fusilier !!!" (by the way, about crucifixes, hmm ..) The Germans were in shock, but the lesson came in handy in the future.
    Separately - about the participation of showbiz in this bacchanalia. Also an interesting topic.
    In general, as comrade Kapitsa said in the cult transmission of our childhood - "the topic is waiting for its researcher"))

    Or a paragraph with an epitaph? bully
    1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 11 November 2020 18: 17
      -3
      Quote: Radikal
      Or a paragraph with an epitaph?

      Well, not for the sake of feces, like you. bully
  • WayKheThuo
    WayKheThuo 11 November 2020 18: 05
    +3
    Great article - thank you, Author.
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 11 November 2020 18: 53
      -3
      Article BAD! Do you know what? it has 22375 characters with spaces. According to the rules of online journalism, 8000 characters are normal. The volume of 8500 is already limiting. Material of 14 thousand is allowed as an exception and with the rare skill of the author as a storyteller. A material of 22 thousand a priori is not worth reading.
      1. forester1971
        11 November 2020 21: 40
        +5
        I am not a journalist. The way of assessing the quality of an article is rather strange, I certainly understand that "brevity is the sister of talent", but I do not pretend to be talented. By the way, why did you read this article if it exceeds your "quality standards".
        1. kalibr
          kalibr 11 November 2020 22: 14
          -7
          Quote: Forester1971
          By the way, why did you read this article if it exceeds your "quality standards".

          Sorry, but this is my job. I am a journalist since 1977, a member of the Union of Journalists of the Russian Federation and the International Federation of Journalists, the author of 3 textbooks for higher schools on journalism and public opinion management. Knowing everything about both good and bad in this area is professional.
          1. KKND
            KKND 12 November 2020 22: 07
            +3
            Quote: kalibr
            Sorry, but this is my job.

            A specialist, damn it, was found for propaganda. That you conduct propaganda as professionally as possible, that you do not, you will not force people in the country to invent microcircuits for billions of transistors, because we are not very smart and physically incapable of doing this.
            I would have come up with such schemes myself instead of using the language professionally to scratch at least some benefit. Maybe he even inspired someone with his deed.
            Although I myself am not able to scratch anything except with my tongue, I even scratch with my tongue worse than you, you can rejoice.
            1. kalibr
              kalibr 13 November 2020 06: 51
              0
              Quote: KKND
              Although I myself am not able to scratch anything except with my tongue, I even scratch with my tongue worse than you, you can rejoice.

              I really have nothing to be happy about that I have to live among such people, but I can tell you that people pay well for managing people!
        2. Gene84
          Gene84 13 November 2020 16: 38
          19
          Never mind. How many people have so many opinions. I liked the article. Fine.
      2. Woodman
        Woodman 12 November 2020 08: 38
        +1
        Quote: WayKhe Thuo
        Great article - thank you, Author.

        Quote: kalibr
        Article BAD! Do you know what? it has 22375 characters with spaces.
        I believe that the praise relates to the quality of the presentation of the material and the content of the article, and your purely professional "nagging" is not taken into account here. And a reference article
        Quote: kalibr
        8000 characters

        can be written in such a way that it will be impossible to read it.
        1. kalibr
          kalibr 12 November 2020 08: 48
          -1
          The man has not read Arthur Ponsonby's books, but climbs to write about propaganda. It's funny! And why do we so like the "works" of people who are completely unprofessional?
          1. Woodman
            Woodman 12 November 2020 09: 05
            +4
            Quote: kalibr
            And why do we so like the "works" of people who are completely unprofessional?

            Because they write interesting, accessible, correct)
            Quote: kalibr
            The man hasn't read Arthur Ponsonby's books,

            It seemed to me that you have "professional jealousy" for this author)) Something did not notice your criticism under the articles of Podymov, Skomorokhov, Staver ... But they write much more often and there are much more reasons to "find fault" with them) I I agree with you that the text should be shorter, but still the article is good. Have you not noticed that this is one of the few articles with so many comments, where the author was not tried to catch on unreliability and distortion?
            Quote: kalibr
            and climbs to write about propaganda. It's funny!
            Rough. Rude and unacceptable (from my, not a journalistic point of view) for a journalist
            Quote: kalibr
            since 1977, a member of the Union of Journalists of the Russian Federation and the International Federation of Journalists, the author of 3 textbooks for higher schools on journalism and public opinion management.

            However, unfortunately, the rudeness in the comments is perceived by many as the norm ... Not so long ago, and in the articles openly rude. Especially before the elections. But you were not outraged by the quality of such articles ... Probably because those articles had the required number of characters.
            1. kalibr
              kalibr 12 November 2020 09: 55
              -1
              I cannot physically track and comment on ALL articles on VO. Didn't this simple answer come to your mind? I don’t read many materials at all ...
              "Have you tried to catch the author?" Simply because NOBODY understands this. Again, I’m the author of three HS textbooks on journalism and propaganda. Taught all this since 1995. And everything that is unprofessional hurts the eye.
              1. Woodman
                Woodman 12 November 2020 10: 16
                +3
                Quote: kalibr
                Have you tried to catch the author? Simply because NOBODY understands this. Again, I’m the author of three HS textbooks on journalism and propaganda.

                However, you gave only the number of characters as an argument for the "bad article". Does this mean that the content of the article is fully consistent with your idea of ​​professionalism?
                Let me tell you a secret - for those who "NOBODY understands" the essence, content and manner of presenting materials are more important than the number of signs.
                1. kalibr
                  kalibr 12 November 2020 11: 11
                  -1
                  Quote: Lesovik
                  I'll tell you a secret

                  You don't need to teach me what I myself taught people since 1995. What do you want to prove to me?
                  Once again: I know perfectly well that today WHAT IS WRITTEN DOES NOT MATTER, it is important HOW. But ... at the same time, there are proven norms for the volume of materials. I worked with the sites Rumbur, Repin, Popular Mechanics, Russian Seven, Pravda.ru. You have experience, right? And the people there are not stupid, do they? So on Repin - 5000 characters, Seven - 5000, Rumbur - 7,500 Popular ... - 4000. In the magazine Secrets of the XX century - 8000. The material, no matter how well it was written, is no longer readable! What else can I write for you from my textbook for universities? If you don’t want from mine - read Chumikov, Bocharov, Musician, read Sam Black, Bernays, finally ...
                  1. Woodman
                    Woodman 12 November 2020 11: 35
                    +4
                    Quote: kalibr
                    Don't teach me what I taught myself

                    I didn’t even try.
                    Quote: kalibr
                    What do you want to prove to me?

                    Don't you understand? Yes, only that the criteria for "good / bad article" we have different. And your reasoning was not convincing.
                    Quote: kalibr
                    I've worked with Rumbur sites ...

                    My least interest in our dialogue is your biography. Fair. We're not discussing your life, but the quality of one particular article.
                    Quote: kalibr
                    What else can I write for you from my textbook for universities?

                    Forgive me, I thought that you were expressing and arguing your opinion, but it turns out I am talking with quotes from the textbook ...
                    1. kalibr
                      kalibr 12 November 2020 11: 44
                      -1
                      Quote: Lesovik
                      Forgive me, I thought that you were expressing and arguing your opinion, but it turns out I am talking with quotes from the textbook ...

                      Once again I am convinced that it is useless to communicate with non-professionals. Quotes are my opinion. I can only advise, AT LEAST YOU WILL NOT DO THIS, go to my profile and see articles on PR and propaganda there. I don't see any other way.
                      1. Woodman
                        Woodman 12 November 2020 11: 52
                        +2
                        Quote: kalibr
                        I can only advise, ALTHOUGH YOU WILL NOT DO THIS, go to my profile

                        I went to your profile. Exactly today. To find out your last name and find your textbooks on the net. I will not search for your articles on PR and propaganda, solely due to the fact that you have almost 1500 articles. But if you drop me the links in a personal note (you probably know the names of your articles and it will be much faster for you to find them) - I will definitely read it.
                        Quote: kalibr
                        Once again I am convinced that it is useless to communicate with non-professionals.

                        A look from another point of view is never useless. By the way, you can give me a quote of my lack of professionalism and "on the fingers" explain what is wrong. Suddenly in the future I will "spin with professionalism" in verbal battles with another professional)))
                      2. kalibr
                        kalibr 12 November 2020 11: 57
                        +1
                        Quote: Lesovik
                        A look from another point of view is never useless. By the way, you can give me a quote of my lack of professionalism and "on the fingers" explain what is wrong. Suddenly in the future I will "spin with professionalism" in verbal battles with another professional

                        Well, this is apparently my lot as a former university teacher ... I have to do as you ask.
                      3. Woodman
                        Woodman 12 November 2020 12: 04
                        0
                        Quote: kalibr
                        have to do as you ask.

                        Thanks in advance.
                      4. kalibr
                        kalibr 12 November 2020 14: 35
                        +1
                        Please get it.
                        1.https: //topwar.ru/69291-oruzhie-slovo.html
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                        4.https: //topwar.ru/82868-horoshiy-pr-i-realnye-dela.html
                        5.https: //topwar.ru/77608-belletristika-i-pablik-rileyshnz.html
                        6.https: //topwar.ru/86641-public-relations-kak-oruzhie-informacionnoy-borby.html
                        7.https: //topwar.ru/91214-chetyre-praktiki-upravleniya-obschestvennym-mneniem.html
                        8.https: //topwar.ru/100619-pr-drevnego-pancirya.html
                        9.https: //topwar.ru/104756-pr-teoriya-zagovora-horoshie-instrumenty-informacionnyh-voyn.html
                        10.https: //topwar.ru/126523-pr-strategii-v-federalnom-izbiratelnom-processe-v-rossii-1993-2012-gg.html
                        11.https: //topwar.ru/122672-kogda-oruzhiem-stanovitsya-reklama.html
                        12.https: //topwar.ru/122676-kogda-oruzhiem-stanovitsya-reklama-chast-vtoraya.html
                        13.https: //topwar.ru/142767-vybory-kak-sredstvo-informacionnoy-voyny.html
                        14.https: //topwar.ru/150807-informacija-v-kachestve-pul-chast-1.html
                        15.https: //topwar.ru/150810-informacija-v-kachestve-pul-chast-2.html
                        16.https: //topwar.ru/170641-informacija-v-obschestve-oruzhie-ostree-shpagi.html
                      5. Woodman
                        Woodman 12 November 2020 14: 49
                        +1
                        Thank you) I'll read it.
              2. ccsr
                ccsr 12 November 2020 12: 41
                +2
                Quote: kalibr
                Once again I am convinced that it is useless to communicate with non-professionals.

                You always mumble this mantra when competent people begin to carry you with a face for your superficial conclusions - all this has long been familiar from this forum ...
              3. kalibr
                kalibr 12 November 2020 13: 53
                -1
                Quote: ccsr
                when literate people start to carry you with a face for your superficial conclusions - all this has long been familiar from this forum ...

                I will simply not be too lazy to fulfill what I have promised - I will collect materials from the past and give it to him. Let him read and think over what he has read. And I have not yet met competent specialists in the field of PR and advertising.
      3. kalibr
        kalibr 12 November 2020 11: 13
        -1
        Quote: Lesovik
        Does this mean that the content of the article is fully consistent with your idea of ​​professionalism?

        No, but that's a separate issue. Why lump everything together?
        1. Woodman
          Woodman 12 November 2020 11: 40
          +3
          Quote: kalibr
          No, but that's a separate issue. Why lump everything together?

          Well, where did you get the idea that this is:
          Quote: WayKhe Thuo
          Great article - thank you, Author.

          refers exactly to this:
          Quote: kalibr
          Article BAD! Do you know what? it has 22375 characters

          and not to the content of the article? That's what I'm talking about. As a rule, commentators praising or abusing an article mean the content, and by no means the number of characters. Just different approaches to quality assessment. And that's all.
  • WayKheThuo
    WayKheThuo 12 November 2020 21: 22
    +2
    I'm a little late, sorry.
    But since the respected (without irony!) Vyacheslav quite professionally (also without irony!) Explained to the audience why the article was bad, I will try, like not a professional, to explain why the article is good:
    1. I liked the syllable.
    2. I liked, let's say, the solidity of the presentation - the article traces a pre-thought out plan and adherence to it.
    3. The author does not "spread his mind along the tree" - the presentation of thoughts is clear enough to understand what the author wants to convey to the reader.
    4. I liked the topic raised.
    5. I am not "annoyed" by the sheet of the text - I do not count the number of characters - I am interested in the author's reasoning, which ends with certain conclusions, with which, by the way, I may not agree.
    In conclusion, I want to say this: being a fairly experienced reader, I distinguish a bad article from a good one according to several very simple and understandable criteria - I like it or not the syllable of the presentation, care about the topic touched on or not, the author's thoughts are clearly expressed or we have semolina in my head and on paper , can the author at the end of the article come to some kind of, albeit intermediate, but conclusion, under which he will put his signature, albeit an electronic one. That's all love.
    IMHO, professionalism in journalism, and in any printed word, is expressed primarily in a simple phrase: "burn people's hearts with a verb."
    If you succeed - good luck, no - the correct size will not help from the word "in any way".
    I think so.
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 13 November 2020 16: 52
      -1
      Quote: WayKhe Thuo
      I think so.

      Now, if everyone so motivated their opinion, without switching to "you" and accusations of ... it would be much easier and more interesting. Well, you explained everything well and on the whole correctly. You should also know what the Fog index is, and the Flush formula will be very good ...
      1. WayKheThuo
        WayKheThuo 13 November 2020 20: 26
        +1
        You should also know what the Fog index is, and the Flush formula will be very good ...

        Understood the hint, thanks, I'll start "digging".
        And the formulas don't scare me. :)
        1. kalibr
          kalibr 13 November 2020 20: 58
          -1
          By the way, here on VO there was just my article on how the Fog index and the Flash formula are used in PR and what it is ... Above I gave a list of my materials on PR and journalism. Somewhere...
  • Radikal
    Radikal 11 November 2020 19: 43
    +4
    Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
    Quote: Radikal
    Or a paragraph with an epitaph?

    Well, not for the sake of feces, like you. bully

    Let's admit. If physiological impromptu has already started on your part - will we analyze whose feces are better? lol wassat
  • Old26
    Old26 11 November 2020 21: 54
    -2
    Quote: Svarog
    And in the Union, the propaganda was truthful, based on the truth ..

    Not always. When necessary - events were hushed up, when necessary - they stuck out. And not always only the truth was used. They tried to make the propaganda believable, but sometimes it was quite "clumsy" in our country. Sometimes it was necessary to make it thinner, but it was believed that it would do.

    Quote: Bearded
    The propaganda of the Washington Regional Committee and of the West in general went off the rails, dropping to the level of fakes. The surname Psaki became a household name. In the West, the "free" media injects outright lies and nonsense into the ears of the people.

    In the same 70s, early 80s, the West made it thinner. Now - clumsy.

    Quote: Stroporez
    And you try, for example, to refute the construction of the BAM or the development of the Virgin Lands, or even better, say that there is no Gagarin rocket. Weak?

    Pretty silly examples. You will also say that it is necessary to refute the presence of Red Square and the Mausoleum on it.

    But, for example, how widely was the Novocherkassk execution covered in Soviet newspapers? A tragedy that took place in the early 60s. I'm not even talking about the events of the 50s, when uprisings broke out in the Gulag system, which ended in a large number of victims. This could only be heard in the late 80s, early 90s, when these materials became public. Before that they were declassified.

    How often have we published in our newspapers about accidents in the space industry (but similar events that happened among the Americans - regularly. So it is not worth saying that Soviet propaganda was based on the truth. The death of Nedelin and a number of designers in a plane crash - is it TRUE? Baikonur, in particular the explosion at the launch of EMNIP in 1983 of a rocket with a crew - was it covered somewhere? Yes, tried to make it believable - yes, we tried without noticeable blunders and flaws and less clumsy, but it does not mean that it is based on the truth.

    Quote: kalibr
    Article BAD! Do you know what? it has 22375 characters with spaces. According to the rules of online journalism, 8000 characters are normal. The volume of 8500 is already limiting. Material of 14 thousand is allowed as an exception and with the rare skill of the author as a storyteller. A material of 22 thousand a priori is not worth reading.

    Bravo, Vyacheslav !!!!
  • BAI
    BAI 11 November 2020 22: 17
    +3
    At the end of the 19th century, propagandists against the regime were respected people in Ingushetia.

    By the way, the author did not indicate yet another propaganda device - an exceptional fact, not typical for these realities, is taken as an example and is presented as a systemic one. With the words: "Here's a fact, it means everything I say is true."
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. Woodman
      Woodman 12 November 2020 09: 21
      +1
      Rough but true.
  • Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 12 November 2020 12: 55
    0
    Is it always necessary to tell only one truth?
    As you wish. Truth is inextricably linked with strength. Told a lie - weakened. Small lie - relatively slightly weakened. Big, important ... And those who lie gradually find themselves in complete loneliness. Weak, all losers, and completely surrounded by strangers. Such is the fate awaiting you liars. You all. Nobody will dodge. The lie carries you into a corner from which the exit is exclusively feet first.
    So the choice is yours. Did you have a loved one? It won't be that way. Were there friends? Betrayed and abandoned. You betrayed them and abandoned them much earlier when you lied to them. Little things. In salvation. For their good. Did other people believe you? Hehe ... Choose, choose ...
  • saygon66
    saygon66 15 November 2020 21: 38
    +2
    - Interesting article! Easy to understand .... Both the article itself, and, most importantly, the comments to it, confirm that the propagandist must be talented! Talented without jokes!
    - The selection and presentation of information should be easily perceived by the audience, and not cause rejection in her ... Well, ideally ...
    - Counting negative and positive reviews could be an indicator of the author's level as a propagandist! smile