An attack on a military airfield in Voronezh is reported by a conscript soldier

An emergency occurred at the Baltimore military airfield in Voronezh. A conscript attacked his fellow soldiers, killing two and wounding one soldier, after which he fled the scene. This is reported by local media and social networks.

According to available information, the incident took place in the morning of November 9, at about 5 am. The soldier was reportedly armed with an ax, with which he inflicted mortal wounds on another soldier by taking possession of it weapons... After that, with the use of weapons (previously - a Makarov pistol), he killed two or three more people and fled the scene.

According to other sources, the 20-year-old conscript first killed one of his colleagues right in the barracks while he was sleeping, after which he attacked the duty officer in the rest room, took possession of a pistol, killing both the duty officer and the driver who was there. Another soldier is currently hospitalized with bullet wounds to the shoulder and shoulder blade.

Thus, the death toll increased to three: Major Sergei Ermolaev, Corporal Sergei Kazhokin, Private Ninail Aktaliev. Private Firsov was hospitalized with two wounds.

The identity of the one who shot his fellow soldiers was established, he turned out to be 20-year-old Anton Makarov, a conscript soldier from Voronezh, he is registered on the street of the 45th Infantry Division. Searches are currently underway, the causes of the incident have not yet been established.

The Defense Ministry has not yet made an official statement.

Comments

[KAV]

Condolences to the families of the victims. And to catch and judge the criminal.

[Tank hard]

Quote: KAV

And to catch and judge the criminal.

First, find out who the criminal is ...

[KAV]

Quote: Tank Hard

First, find out who is the crime

It is possible that he was forced to do this, but nevertheless, this does not justify him. He took the lives of three people. This is a very serious crime.

[Tank hard]

Quote: KAV

It is possible that he was forced to do this, but nevertheless, this does not justify him. He took the lives of three people. This is a very serious crime.

Well, at first, we don't know what happened there. So far, this is only information not confirmed by facts and investigation. This may not be the case. we are waiting for more accurate information.

[KAV]

Quote: Tank Hard

This may not be the case. we are waiting for more accurate information.

It may not be so. But, this is unlikely.

[alexmach]

If the reason for what happened is hazing, then it is necessary to judge first of all the stupid commanders and only then him.

[KAV]

Quote: alexmach

If the reason for what happened is hazing, then it is necessary to judge first of all the stupid commanders and only then him.

The commanders will now, in any case, fly over the most tomatoes. But, of course, it is necessary to understand the reasons for this incident.

[Tank hard]

Quote: alexmach

If the reason for what happened is hazing, then it is necessary to judge first of all the stupid commanders and only then him.

As history shows, including when I served, officers almost always (with rare exceptions) can and should prevent such a thing, however, they do not always want to.

[zollstab]

It saddens that they will simply appoint an "extreme" and will not understand. Everything is simple to disgrace.

[Thrall]

Quote: Tank Hard

we are waiting for more accurate information

A bit of specificity:

[Tank hard]

Quote: Thrall

A bit of specificity:

Thank you for the information.

[Kapral Alphych]

How can you take a weapon away from an officer? Also a major ?? When, when trying to get hold of a weapon, you can already shoot to kill?

[carstorm 11]

Do you think the officer is expecting an attack from a soldier? this is not just a rarity, but something from the area of ​​small error. for this he was simply not ready. could turn and get hit in the head and that's it.

[Kapral Alphych]

That's all you need to know about the combat readiness of the guard on duty and the outfit in this unit. When a 20-year-old jerk takes the pistol away from the Major, three of them also lay down from him.

[carstorm 11]

The guards and officers are simply not prepared for such a development of events! ... do you think the guard in their premises should move with weapons at the ready and in anticipation of an attack from colleagues? and the duty officer is an ordinary major. not a commando. can happen to anyone. I just thought what I would do in his place and most likely I would also grab it. the case is very rare. I don't see any opportunities to prepare for this.

[Kapral Alphych]

Duc is written in the same place as a result of a "verbal conflict" - that is, the situation has already taken a turn, where the officer must keep his ears open! If there was a sudden attack, then in general there would be no complaints about your words!

[carstorm 11]

disagree. the officer is now afraid to stand with his back to all whom he will correct brains? so this is 20 times a day sometimes. and the attack, as I said, is not just a rarity, but generally out of the ordinary. this is not a street showdown. but the relationship of the commander with the subordinate.

[Captain45]

Quote: Kapral Alphich

that is, the situation has already taken a turn, where the officer must keep his ears open!

- Ivanov!
- ...I..
- Are you asleep, parasite, on the nightstand ?! I'll rot in outfits ....!
Turns to exit.
Ivanov: "Oh, in outfits!" Grabs a stool - Here, you bastard! ... Blinn, we need to bring down ... Everyone and go home!
Here is an approximate development of events, based on my experience of serving in a threat.
And the officer may be a staff officer without experience in working with l / s.

[Prapor-527]

The guard, upon arrival at the guardhouse, surrenders his weapon. Only the chief of the guard is with weapons ...

[Shooter22]

God, how tired of the comments of idle demagogues! Artem, do you really think that all the majors of the RF Armed Forces have passed the GRU special forces or that all the conscripts are dead dystophanes with a phobia of mama's pies? You are in a hurry to condemn the major - a man who linked his life with the army, although you yourself most likely have no idea about the life of the barracks and officers! You were there, holding a candle? Just look at what kind of generation of young people are being called up now (I don’t want to speak for everyone, but there are many of them). What's going on on the Internet, on television, in the media? Shit and violence, death groups, etc. Human life is devalued, and for some, taking it away like two fingers on the asphalt is just an exciting quest from a computer game. Therefore, they go for it, not understanding all the "charms" of the consequences: the remand prison and the zone for makrushniki (such scumbags, by the way, do not like them there either).
For the sake of justice, I remember that a conscript (Uzbek) sailor wanted me on duty while resting with a bayonet-knife, but then he collected his teeth in the latrine until morning, but I did not declare. Science was enough for him, I hope he is still alive and well.

[Status]

It's about how a career soldier could afford to relax so much that he gave up his weapon and then what happened. However, maybe vice versa, he began to fight back actively and as a result, the weapon went into action.

[Shooter22]

Do you really think that a regular soldier with weapons in the barracks when checking the day is in "combat" mode like Stalone and is waiting for an attack from any side? My friend, stop watching Hollywood and go back to real life.) If it is, then only conscripts will serve in the army, a joke.

[Status]

I think that the very fact of carrying a weapon obliges you to be in attention all the time, especially in case of any episodes in the work with personnel! no one demands to be Stalone, but not to fight off a 20 year old guy, yes, business
Condolences to the deceased, resilience to their families

[Shooter22]

He planted his head from behind with an ax from a fire shield, and then took possession of his weapon. I'm wondering how you would fight off in this situation? Reality is not a Hollywood action movie, buddy.

[Shooter22]

The fact that many in the comments confuse the daily outfit for a company with a guard, speaks of their "exclusive" competence in these matters. Jackets, go to school! You don't belong here!

[Kapral Alphych]

I completely agree with your words! The fact of the matter is that it is necessary to change the system of officer training in connection with what you are talking about (changing the quality of the conscripted contingent). And sergeants, officers need to be more attentive to their personnel, for conscripts are now softer, but at the same time extremely aggressively disposed thanks to the information environment created in society. And the court will blame and look for the guilty, but we are just outside observers with our own opinion, which may or may not be liked. All the more, I do not pretend to be the ultimate truth.

[carstorm 11]

Yes, it will not be possible to prepare for this) we leave the school, sorry for the blank words) we get everything important and important especially for working with personnel in units) and it is extremely important for your career to get to where officers can work not for show. and it is there that it will be determined who you are and what kind of officer you are.

[polar fox]

Quote: Kapral Alphich

How can you take a weapon away from an officer? Also a major?

easy ... some "ohfficers", waving a pistol near their noses, provoked such actions themselves.

[swnvaleria]

anything can happen, in 2001 my friend Sashka was shot by an "officer", he had a week left before demobilization

[Thrall]

In the realities of peacetime, service weapons do more harm than good. And in conflict zones in the early nineties, officers were generally forbidden to go into the city with a service officer, so as not to provoke attacks in order to seize weapons.

[Vladimir_6]

Quote: Kapral Alphich

How can you take a weapon away from an officer? Also a major ??

At the end of the USSR, my friend Ivan Kovalenko (starley) served in the OBKHS. During the assignment, a group of young scumbags tried to take away the pistol from him. During the struggle, a shot was fired. One of the attackers got a bullet in the eye and out of the back of the head. Ivan was not imprisoned, but the KGB mutilated him to the point that he had to quit his job.

[Captain45]

Quote: Vladimir_6

Ivan was not sent to prison, but the KGB mutilated him to the point that he had to quit his job.

And why the KGB? With what fright? The prosecutor's office considered such cases all the time. You darken something, and the "Bekhesesniki" did not carry weapons either at the dawn or dusk of the USSR, who was there to scare them — a storekeeper or a warehouse manager. My experience of service in the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the USSR, then in the Russian Federation from 1985 to 2005. So there is no need to sing war songs. If your friend was not a spy and did not steal, so that he could go under 93 (firing squad), he was not interested in the KGB, at least five were shot.

[Vladimir_6]

Quote: Captain45

You darken something, and even the "Bekhesesniki" did not carry weapons at the dawn or dusk of the USSR, who was to be scared of - a storekeeper or a warehouse manager.

Theft took place at a tire factory. A very serious group of former athletes was at work. The group was led by the party organizer of the enterprise. (Soon after, he died with a group of accomplices in a dubious accident). Ivan, as part of a group, went to arrest at night with a service weapon.

[Avior]

I remember when there was a case when the sailors of the unit on duty in the Baltic drowned.

[carstorm 11]

how can you force a man to be hacked with an ax tell me?

[alexmach]

Well, here's the Shamsutdinov case, for example. Although it is of course stupid to deny - murder is a serious crime and you will have to bear responsibility for it.

[carstorm 11]

and what's there? Shamsundinov, whatever his motives, not only did he shoot everyone in a row, he also finished off the wounded. examination found him sane, which surprised me very much. what should a person do so that he does not just shoot people but also chops them with an ax? this reaction is inadequate. and that's putting it mildly. and there is no reason to somehow justify it.

[Kapral Alphych]

Yes, he did not cut anyone, they write that he shot with PM

[carstorm 11]

thanks. I've already seen. just chatting about hypothetical motives)

[Voyager]

A hypothetical state of passion can always come to hypothetical motives, and this is not at all necessarily a sign of mental deviation.

[alexmach]

this reaction is inadequate

It depends on what. If these people systematically mocked him, and the commander condoned this, then the reaction is quite adequate. You know the proverb "A rat usually runs away, but if you drive it into a corner, it will rush at you, no matter how big and terrible you may seem to it."

Shamsundinov, no matter what motives he had, not only did he shoot everyone in a row, he also finished off the wounded

IMHO did the right thing. Those who mocked him themselves and deserved their fate. It is a pity only for those who accidentally fell under the distribution. And the "officers" are a pity .. that a little under the distribution got.

[carstorm 11]

I have nothing to say to you after that. I hope your children and friends will not fall under the distribution from such an organism.

[alexmach]

It is very clever to shift the responsibility for what is happening on the "screw" by talking about children and friends.

[carstorm 11]

everything is known only through pain. you will not understand until you stumble upon the same in life and I think you will not defend later. and if you think that the murder of 8 people and then finishing off the wounded can be at least something to justify, you can hardly find anything else to answer. After all, he put everyone and even those who are generally not guilty of anything in front of him.

[alexmach]

After all, he put everyone and even those who are generally not guilty of anything in front of him.

How many were there? One? Two? I did not follow the situation so closely, but in my opinion he later expressed regret about one murdered man.

And about what you can and cannot do - an excellent position, it means you can mock the guy, it seems that the "commander" himself was noted in this regard? Officers can also not fulfill their direct duties, everything is in order with this, there are no questions.

[carstorm 11]

and what for him was a mockery, for example, to wash the toilet, you probably also missed? it is also important what exactly happened against him. there are many ways to defend your honor or just rights. which the conscript also has. but man does not care about it. we must take up arms and take the life of EIGHT people. I do not understand what you are trying to prove to me. for me he is life-long and this is still not enough. let them look into the eyes of the parents of those whom he has deprived of their lives. and tell him what was done to him that is proportional to the deprivation of the life of their children.

[alexmach]

M? not allowed to sleep? not let out of your outfits? while forcing the emaciated person to exercise? Threatened to rape? They got threatened, got what they deserved, and I don't need to talk about the eyes of my parents who raised wild animals instead of people.

[carstorm 11]

about the tales of rape, you are not here), I heard enough of these tales at one time, darkness. At the same time, no one has ever raped anyone), the lawyers are happy with the big top. outfits? fizukha? Really? we in the school were younger than these guys, somehow we didn’t die. at the same time, they also fully studied at the rate of higher education. he does not know the duties of the operator to the person to step into the guard. what did he want after that? cake? you are confusing army and civilian life. now agree to the point that crosses and morning exercises are also a mockery. that's all that you called it everyday life. and that's what I'm telling you. mockery fizukha and outfits) big top pancake.

[alexmach]

now agree to the point that crosses and morning exercises are also a mockery

You have already agreed. Why did the crosses come here? In fact, there is a criminal case on the fact of hazing in part is being considered. Are crosses and morning exercises discussed in the case materials?

big top pancake.

Definitely. And you are the main clown in it.

[carstorm 11]

I was pulled in here by being forced to exercise. or wore outfits. which is normal everyday life in any part at any time. and if a soldier does not fit into the standards, then he is engaged in more than others. what is NATURAL !!! if he is not feeling well there is a medical unit and it is not necessary to go there a lot. just legs. outfits? I walked in the SVU for 14 years. after him 5 years of school. and when he ate donuts at home, I wore outfits and sweated on the fizukh. And believe me, the school drove us much cooler. As a lieutenant at the age of 21, I spent the day and spent the night in the service, these tales about bullying through physical training are enough for me. he is a SOLDIER. not a student. his duty is to prepare to defend his homeland. a daily outfit is assigned to maintain internal order, protect personnel, weapons, military equipment and ammunition, premises and property of a military unit (unit), monitor the state of affairs in units and take timely measures to prevent offenses, as well as to perform other duties on internal service. or simply it is his DUTY. no one is interested in his desires during the service.

[alexmach]

I walked in the SVU for 14 years. after him 5 years of school. and when he ate donuts at home, I wore clothes and sweated on fizukh

And this is your personal choice. And he does not give you the slightest right to reproach someone who has acted differently.

it is his DUTY. no one cares about his desires during the service

Well, that is, in your opinion, the criminal case under investigation was sucked out of your finger?

[carstorm 11]

it's not about my choice, but about the loads that we calmly endured without crying and without whining and, as it were, no one was killed for it. all that is there is extortion of 3000 rubles and a blow to the shin. what the bruises indicated. everything else no one will ever be able to insert into the accusation, since all these physical activities and outfits are regulated by the charter. if you think that for 3000 rubles and a bruise you can kill people, then I have no more words ...

[Narak-zempo]

Quote: alexmach

"The rat usually runs away, but if you drive it into a corner, it will rush at you, no matter how big and scary you seem to it."

Who thought that the fighter would be a rat ...

[alexmach]

Very funny. The theme is straightforward to jokes.

[akarfoxhound]

Those. version of an aggressive debila, offended for life, you immediately sweep aside, only the option - "the boy was offended"? Have you ever, ever encountered the first option?

[Alex Justice]

how can you force a man to be hacked with an ax tell me?

Easy. The old men beat my relative to death. No one was punished. It is a pity that he did not have an ax, perhaps he would have fought back.

[carstorm 11]

I'm sorry, but I don't believe in this nonsense. death is always an emergency. it is always a criminal case and an inquiry with an investigation. this is the judgment. do you have his solution? my soldier kicked another spleen with a knee. personal conflict and just a careless blow. planted.

[Alex Justice]

It was 20 - 30 years ago. The case was hushed up behind the fence of the barracks.

[Xnumx vis]

Quote: carstorm 11

how can you force a man to be hacked with an ax tell me?

We do not know the psychological portrait of this soldier. In the army, sometimes you come across such fruits that your mother does not grieve .. You order him to fill the bed, and he throws himself at you with a knife ... At home, his mummy did not force him to do anything, and his father was not from birth. Not the ability to behave in a male team, far-fetched grievances. And the army is not a kindergarten.

[Machnamh]

Quote: KAV

It is possible that he was forced to do this, but nevertheless, this does not justify him. He took the lives of three people. This is a very serious crime.

If forced, and you yourself admit such a possibility, then it is not difficult. He was forced. Are they sadists in relation to their brothers-in-arms or, in extreme cases, to animals ------ there they go!

[silverwolf88]

a person committed a murder ... this is a crime ... the rest are motives and circumstances and they are of course important ...
BUT the fact that random people who just happened to be nearby came under the distribution ... obviously from the description of the circumstances of the crime ...

[Tank hard]

Quote: silberwolf88

BUT the fact that random people who just happened to be nearby came under the distribution ... obviously from the description of the circumstances of the crime ...

Where did you get the idea about random people? Nothing is obvious yet.

[svp67]

Quote: Tank Hard

Nothing is obvious yet.

Everything is more than obvious, the murder of THREE people, what else is needed for evidence?

[Tank hard]

Quote: svp67

Everything is more than obvious, the murder of THREE people, what else is needed for evidence?

Were you there?

[svp67]

Quote: Tank Hard

Were you there?

I don’t, but I don’t believe the RAM, as the same I have no reason. Are you now trying to prove that this guy is a victim? Everything is possible, but even this will not relieve him of criminal liability, under a very difficult article.

[Tank hard]

Quote: svp67

Me not, but does not believe the RAM, as the same I have no reason

Fair wind. I thought better of you.

[svp67]

Quote: Tank Hard

Tailwind.

Don't forget the drum and the flag ...

Quote: Tank Hard

I thought better of you.

Now I'm going to cry ...

[Tank hard]

Quote: svp67

Now I'm going to cry ...

Don't cry, the rains will pass.

[Stas157]

Quote: silberwolf88

a person committed a murder ... this is a crime ... the rest is motives and circumstances

This was not a murder for the purpose of personal gain, when the motive is clear as day. For a sane person to kill another, an extraordinary event must occur. This is how you need to bring a person! Let's talk about this.

A person who decides to kill another (others) perfectly understands that by doing so he deletes himself from life. So before he erases himself from life, it is necessary that others have already done it. Brought to an unbearable state. Intolerable. When killing your offenders is seen as the (only) way out of a desperate situation. Who is to blame here?

[silverwolf88]

I will not assess the level of your attitude to the army ... but I remind you that there is a telephone hotline ... this is so as not to kill ... there is the possibility of applying to the prosecutor's office (I received a prosecutor's warning for the fact that sergeants were raised 10 minutes before getting up ... they didn't sleep for 10 minutes) ... the prosecutors are just happy to dig under the commanders ... they have such a job ...

[Stas157]

Quote: silberwolf88

remind that there is a helpline ... this is not to kill ... there is a possibility of applying to the prosecutor's office

Obviously it didn't work in this case. And judging by the fact that there are many such cases, it is not clear if this works at all.

[svp67]

Quote: Tank Hard

First, find out who the criminal is ...

Do you consider killing people not a crime? What nonsense?

[Tank hard]

Quote: svp67

Do you consider killing people not a crime? What are these stupid questions?

And in war people are killed. What do you propose, to prohibit the war and how many will hear you? What a stupid comment?

[svp67]

Quote: Tank Hard

And in war people are killed.

Is your head okay? Or do you think this guy was fighting a war? With whom? Who were his enemies?

Quote: Tank Hard

What do you suggest, prohibit the war

I would love to do it. But this is not real.

Quote: Tank Hard

What a stupid comment?

So do not write them, so that later you will not be stupid. Whatever happened there before that, now there is the fact of the MURDERING of two or more persons, and this is already dragging on for the longest time and this is a CRIME.

[Tank hard]

Quote: svp67

So do not write them, so that later you will not be stupid.

Teach your spiders better. Fair wind.

[svp67]

Quote: Tank Hard

Teach your spiders better. Fair wind.

And you have a drum on your neck and a flag in ... You will find where to place it.

[Tank hard]

Quote: svp67

And you have a drum on your neck and a flag in ..

You already know that.

[svp67]

Quote: Tank Hard

You already know that.

But what, I'm not equipping the first one on that path. We already have experience. Drum and flag ...

[Voyager]

Quote: svp67

Is your head okay? Or do you think this guy was fighting a war? With whom? Who were his enemies?

For any sane person, the same hazing, for example, may well cause quite natural hatred and a thirst for revenge in one way or another.

[silverwolf88]

Are you talking about a school or a showdown between districts ??? ... the army is a different order ...

[Voyager]

Quote: silberwolf88

... the army is a different order ...

Army and bullying are mutually exclusive theses, otherwise it is not an army, but a mess.

[Stas157]

Quote: svp67

Is your head okay? Or do you think this guy was fighting a war? With whom? Who were his enemies?

Obviously those who were killed.
Or do you think that the guy did it in a fit of joy, maybe?

[Tank hard]

Quote: Stas157

Obviously those who were killed.
Or do you think that the guy did it in a fit of joy, maybe?

During my service from 1993-96, in two parts, there were a significant number of cases of non-regulation, fights, even with officers and even improvised items like crowbars, some left for the hospital, others were transferred to another part (my case). But such a case has never happened, as described here, is this how to bring the individual, or what's wrong with the psyche? But about the psyche it is to the IHC. And in fact, someone can take down different things and spit, and something more, and someone does not forgive a word. People are different, upbringing and circumstances are the same. But until a full investigation of such an egregious case has been carried out, no stigma should be placed on anyone. But after all, it is often easier to appoint a murderer than to understand the reasons for what happened. However, my head is not all right. So that you can not listen to me.

[silverwolf88]

In war, enemies of the Motherland ... you feel the difference ... this is not your enemy Petya from a neighboring yard ... this is about something else ... it is somehow blasphemous to compare

[Stas157]

Quote: silberwolf88

In war, enemies of the Motherland ... you feel the difference ... this is not your enemy Petya from the neighboring yard ... it's about something else ... it's somehow blasphemous to compare

And if this Petya, a maniac, raped your wife or daughter? How then to be with Petya? He seems to be not an enemy of the Motherland, but personally you will hate him more than any enemy! Is not it? And maybe you won't even let this Petya live to see a fair trial.

[Tank hard]

Quote: silberwolf88

this is not your enemy Petya from the neighboring yard

Somehow they fought with crowbars. We've damaged each other's organisms. felt like on the front line, wanted to make me clean the dining room. instead of their fellow countrymen, it did not work. They were just fascists for me at that moment.

[venik]

Quote: KAV

Condolences to the families of the victims. And to catch and judge the criminal.

========
Judging and punishing is a must! But it is also necessary to figure out what kind of orders are happening in the unit! It’s hard to believe that the guy had “demolished the attic” just like that, “out of the blue”, and even so specifically demolished that he grabbed the ax and went to blame everyone who caught his eye ...... Sorry guys!

[akarfoxhound]

And in schools, when 17-year-old high school students plan mass murders "no matter who, the main thing is more" to become famous and other debilnie explanations of the act - is this a sufficient reason "out of the blue"?

[Looking for]

Sure, they will catch and osudyat. And why does this happen in the Armed Forces with an enviable frequency. You are certainly not interested in this ?!

[Vladimir Vladimirovich S]

....... - the disbat "grabbed" (((...

[Starover_Z]

Quote: Vladimir Vladimirovich S

....... - the disbat "grabbed" (((...

If not worse, several people were killed .... Life imprisonment can specifically threaten, regardless of the reasons for the act.

[Prisoner]

The people go berserk.

[The leader of the Redskins]

You can't tell about mental abnormalities from your face, just some kind of eyes ... Evil, or something ...

[carstorm 11]

strange situation. the guy next to the house serves. 20 years. Moreover, if you believe the sequence of actions, then he followed the gun purposefully ... we must wait for the results of the investigation. guesses won't work here.

[Zaurbek]

It seems that they have already been serving for 1 year ... and another control over them.

[silverwolf88]

from Voronezh ... serves in Voronezh ... a vicious practice ... perhaps the reason lies behind the fence of a military unit ... let's see how the investigation goes ...
in the presence of helplines ... and the military prosecutor's office would simply be "happy" with an application from a soldier ... to kill is something completely out of the ordinary ...

[ALARI]

Which of the two versions will be: hazing or the guy's psyche is out of order? Although both versions are impartial for the army.

[carstorm 11]

forget this word already. Hazing as a phenomenon has been gone for a long time. there is hazing. you cannot mix one with the other. the nature of the phenomena is very different.

[ALARI]

And how do they differ from each other? Was hazing included in the Charter? When the grandfather of a young man strains it according to the charter happens?

[carstorm 11]

Hazing was built on a clear hierarchy and rules with traditions. its origin is also known to everyone. in fact, and how she appeared in the army. and when this system was broken by the shortening of the service life and the massive switch to the contract it ceased to be relevant. but now all this is a common crime, as in ordinary life. the strong spread rot on the weak. which is in any yard in any school.

[ALARI]

Do you want to say that you have moved from rules and traditions to criminal relations? How do these two concepts differ for a particular person? If a soldier is given a scoreboard in accordance with tradition and hierarchy, will it be better or worse than it will be done from the position of the strong? The words are different, but the essence is the same.

[carstorm 11]

no. I don’t say that. I just describe to you the nature of the phenomenon under which your term which comes from the word grandfather does not fit. from the point of view of an officer, I can tell you that ... each system has its pros and cons. and when the system is destroyed, then ordinary people remain in a limited space. each with their own cockroaches. If earlier I could rely on senior employees in terms of discipline, now I have to find completely different approaches. where I did not serve everything happened but the soldiers were not beaten. we controlled ours. as soon as someone appeared who departed from my requirements it did not seem a little to him. I always knew that while I was away nothing would happen. so he built his work that his own will punish the one who crosses the line. I do not deny the fact that it was different in different places. and beat and mocked, and frankly think that this is entirely the fault of the officers of these units. did not know how or did not want to work.

[ALARI]

And how did they maintain discipline? How they could and how they wanted based on their desire, education and depravity. Did you go overboard? Now people are more free and fair. Simple decisions about discipline are effective, but they are a double-edged sword. It can be very painful.

[carstorm 11]

there are clear boundaries that you delineate yourself and define them. they always knew these boundaries how and what would happen if they were crossed. it is effective and it has always worked. all you have to do is know people. be able to identify those who will be useful to you. and be able to convey your thoughts in a very specific and popular way. Well, the subtleties allegedly do not spread rot in front of subordinates and everything else. this is the basics. lieutenant, when you don't leave the barracks, they are almost absorbed very well)

[ALARI]

What you have written is existence in a team with a clear hierarchy and how, ideally, to keep it in check and get your orders executed. But we started a discussion about hazing and bullying - it's the same thing for me. Who says 1 year is not enough for the emergence of such a relationship, is disingenuous. An example from myself when after the military service there was a month's training (people are all from the same city, institute, more or less familiar) and then they managed to start building such a hierarchy, although they perfectly understood that in a month we were in the city and how things might turn out there.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: ALARI

And how do they differ from each other? Was hazing included in the Charter? When the grandfather of a young man strains it according to the charter happens?

Hazing is just part of the hazing. Its difference: a strict hierarchy with division of seniority by service life.
Now, with the current service life, there is no time to grow classic grandfathers. Therefore, it is incorrect to call the current non-statutory system “bullying”.

[Nyrobsky]

Neustavschina. The commanders did not notice something. Three people cannot be returned, this shooter also ruined his life, making a bunch of people unhappy.

[rotmistr60]

The question is what is not served? Service life is short, food is good, living conditions are also generally good. It is strange that the media did not immediately start talking about hazing and hazing, which is usually the first to be put forward. Runs a little, comprehend what happened, and then a bullet in his forehead.

[Simon schempp]

The question is what is not served? Service life is short, food is good, living conditions are also generally good.

No matter how they feed, the conscript army is a compulsory imprisonment for a year. And someone shakes his term calmly, while someone's roof goes.
Especially in the 21st century, when a person knows that there are so many beautiful places and activities in the world, and he was closed in a labor camp for a whole year.

[faiver]

The service life is short, the food is good, the living conditions are also mostly good

- the question is controversial, as I understand it is far from everywhere and the conditions are good and the stern is normal and the situation in the units is normal

[Guards turn]

The media got a message from the operational duty officer. The Baltimore Airfield Assassinations Begin With "Verbal Conflict"

[carstorm 11]

then this guy is just a sociopath and dangerous to others. and it manifested itself now in conditions of isolation from the usual habitat as an option. Sadly, it is very difficult to identify such people. especially in the conditions of draft commissions.

[Knell wardenheart]

And why the devil are they needed then? Wipe your pants? Why do we always have responsible people to decorate the post and not to fulfill their functions ?!
Let them choose better, let them make the conditions of service better, learn at least something from other states with successful experience - and not this, that's all, the eternal conservation of the late Brezhnev traditions.

[carstorm 11]

it is not revealed very quickly. and this takes time and a lot. the specifics of the disorder. it is not a disease but a personality disorder.

[Lucy]

Lived in Voronezh

[Konnick]

Hazing is the basis of discipline in the army. Until the officers sleep in the barracks, this will continue.
In the US Army, all recruits undergo a 2-week mental examination in hospitals. And we have two or three questions and you are good ...

[Knell wardenheart]

Do not compare a highly motivated contract army with dudes who are taken away like cattle in military registration and enlistment offices or caught in the doorways, with flat feet, shitty eyesight, mental problems and at that age when not everyone has dried milk on their lips.
As the saying goes "if you cook soup from an ax, then there is nothing to be surprised that it will taste like rust"

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Knell Wardenheart

Do not compare a highly motivated contract army with dudes who are taken away like cattle in military registration and enlistment offices or caught in the doorways, with flat feet, shitty eyesight, mental problems and at that age when not everyone has dried milk on their lips.

Now the IDF was offended.
Maybe it’s not a picking method, but something else?

[Kapral Alphych]

And here, on my guard from the newcomers, the psychologist, according to some of his recipes, determined the most, mmm, how to put it more correctly - goofs and mattresses. And those on whom I was counting, I completely stabbed everyone! And no arguments that I know my personnel better are of interest to him! As well as the arguments of the company commander, he twisted in one place! As a result, the devil knows who got on guard and a bow from the side, which is scary to give a weapon in their hands, even if they are not loaded, let alone put them on duty! With us, psychologists now rule everywhere - he said that you, and until another psychologist acquits you, you can give up on yourself! And you can't argue with his opinion! You see it "professional"! And by what methods and under what wheels it was accepted by that psychologist, no one cares! And if he just didn't like you ... then that's it, go and hang yourself.

[minus]

A little off topic, but about psychologists. A friend's daughter is 16 years old. She did it means a new hairstyle before her birthday, light highlighting ... Neither means the school psychologist of the mother and declares that this is not normal, this indicates
imbalance and suicidal tendencies! Like, pay attention! And then we'll do it ...))) And this psychologist herself is painted in three colors at the same time !!!! Well, hey mother said this ... Like she herself is inclined to what ... These painted creatures determine a lot, unfortunately ...

[Shooter22]

And we had the opposite. I went to an emergency (shooting of the guard), and so the fighter who shot three colleagues on the guard, the psychologist, according to tests and his methods, "hacked to death", and the commander decided to appoint this fighter to the guard, contrary to his recommendations, although he himself then "barrel drove "to the psychologist, they say he did not see it. When the documents were dealt with and the course of events was restored, the psychologist was given amnesty, and the commander of this unit was removed from office. It also happens.

[Kapral Alphych]

No one was allowed in without the permission of a psychologist. He was even cooler than the political officer (deputy for VR)

[Charik]

did not serve as a fool at home

[bogart047]

hazing again. I hope that when every grandfather does not have such a hero who hacks him into everything, nothing in the army will change

[pereselenec]

The option with bullying is completely ruled out, since our Ministry of Defense recently completely defeated it:

Perhaps a sabotage by the IDF? After all, the guy was clearly in Israel, where he was probably taught:

[Simon schempp]

Perhaps a sabotage by the IDF?

Not at all. Most likely, Biden did not have time to take office, but is already nasty.

[Cottager452]

45th Infantry Division, former Clinical. The guys are there, the genetic fund of Voronezh is 100 years old.

[faiver]

I very much suspect that the issue of alcohol or drugs, as a version, the lad was noticed by the major on duty, and then it started ...

[Knell wardenheart]

It's time to draw conclusions from this growing trend. We are still playing a game of scoop with his conscript army and high moral and propaganda spirit, but in fact this has been gone for a long time - and all this is the "first swallow" of both an idiotic selection on the principle of "every little speck is a vitamin" which in general, this archaic conscription system within the classical, resource capitalism with a planned, long-term curtailment of all nation-oriented programs.
In modern wars, "concript" is stupid cannon fodder, but not the backbone of the offensive defense. Especially when serving a year, in conditions when the state prefers to save as much as possible on the "training" of these very conscripts. All this is fiction.
What happened is an unambiguous tragedy, but it is not shocking - we saw all this not so long ago - and these cases occur regularly. Access to weapons is provided to people without due verification, collectives are recruited anyhow, the structure of the system contrasts sharply with the values ​​and norms of the 21st century - and it turns out what happens.
I understand those who will now be indignant, they say, "it should be" and "a man should", etc. - but understand, times are CHANGING. And the state is CHANGING. And the nature of the wars is CHANGING. The more psychologically unstable individuals are pushed into a formalized idiotic environment stuffed with weapons, the greater the risk can happen, even in peacetime. About the combat effectiveness during the military period of this entire system, given our aging and very modest demo potential, there is generally a continuous stream of sad thoughts. It is high time for us to learn how to choose quality - over economy and some kind of fake statistical power.

[Simon schempp]

times change

100% to the point. But the naphthalene generals cannot understand this.
No matter how many cool missiles and planes there are, the Russian army is outdated MORALLY.

[akarfoxhound]

From the army "profound" opus "for obsolescence" write?

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Knell Wardenheart

We still play scoop with his draft army

Quote: Knell Wardenheart

In modern wars, "concript" is stupid cannon fodder, but not the backbone of the offensive defense.

[Knell wardenheart]

I think that comparing the quality and attitude of our call and call to the IDF is as free an assumption as calling a whale a fish.

[Konnick]

Quote: Kapral Alphich

With us, psychologists now rule everywhere - he said that you, and until another psychologist acquits you, you can give up on yourself! And you can't argue with his opinion! You see it "professional"!

Psychiatrists should examine, not psychologists. A psychologist is not a doctor, but hell, understand who.

[Machnamh]

Quote: Konnick

Psychiatrists should examine, not psychologists. A psychologist is not a doctor, but hell, understand who.

There is a long-standing definition of a psychiatrist ----- "Who is a psychiatrist? A psychiatrist is a Jew who is afraid of the sight of blood. But in order not to upset his mother he went to the medical department." Talk to psychiatrists. It's fun to watch them, what kind of people they are CONVINCED, how they draw conclusions and how "the office writes" at the same time. Schweik answered them well - what question, such an answer. Recently I read the work of psychiatra-"writer" Chizh, a publicist at the end of the 19th century, where he "proved Gogol's madness" in a popularly adapted book. However, it is instructive reading.

[Sofa warrior]

Quote: Knell Wardenheart

It's time to draw conclusions from this growing trend. We are still playing a game of scoop with his conscript army and high moral and propaganda spirit, but in fact this has been gone for a long time - and all this is the "first swallow" of both an idiotic selection on the principle of "every little speck is a vitamin" which in general, this archaic conscription system within the classical, resource capitalism with a planned, long-term curtailment of all nation-oriented programs.
In modern wars, "concript" is stupid cannon fodder, but not the backbone of the offensive defense. Especially when serving a year, in conditions when the state prefers to save as much as possible on the "training" of these very conscripts. All this is fiction.
What happened is an unambiguous tragedy, but it is not shocking - we saw all this not so long ago - and these cases occur regularly. Access to weapons is provided to people without due verification, collectives are recruited anyhow, the structure of the system contrasts sharply with the values ​​and norms of the 21st century - and it turns out what happens.
I understand those who will now be indignant, they say, "it should be" and "a man should", etc. - but understand, times are CHANGING. And the state is CHANGING. And the nature of the wars is CHANGING. The more psychologically unstable individuals are pushed into a formalized idiotic environment stuffed with weapons, the greater the risk can happen, even in peacetime. About the combat effectiveness during the military period of this entire system, given our aging and very modest demo potential, there is generally a continuous stream of sad thoughts. It is high time for us to learn how to choose quality - over economy and some kind of fake statistical power.

Yes it's true. It's a pity only the witnesses of the scoop and the man should minus you now. A man can and should, but a man does not, google the difference and decide.

[Knell wardenheart]

There are decisions of a populist nature, there are decisions based on the criterion of effectiveness. Modern war and defense is war and defense of high technology and professionals. How the concripts feel in it can be clearly seen in Armenia now.

[Branimir]

Quote: silberwolf88

from Voronezh ... serves in Voronezh ... a vicious practice ... perhaps the reason lies behind the fence of a military unit ... let's see how the investigation goes ...
in the presence of helplines ... and the military prosecutor's office would simply be "happy" with an application from a soldier ... to kill is something completely out of the ordinary ...

I also think that he needed the pistol more for another purpose, and in the process of taking over and preventing the chase, he had to "neutralize" his colleagues. With the current term of service in a year, he already belonged to the old-timers, since he was called up in the spring.

[Dikson]

The situation is unclear .. Was the major on duty? Did you check the barracks at night? The killer was dressed, or was he just doing something in the back room instead of sleeping .. The day-man was covering him, or vice versa (for which he was killed.)? Why and how did they get the ax in the barracks, they grabbed it from the fire shield? It turns out that the major took them by surprise, began to put things in order, was hacked to death with an ax, they took the service PM from his holster and opened fire on those who came running to the noise ...

[Hog]

Why posting personal information?
137 article of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation seems to be.

[faiver]

The soldier was detained, the grandmother said that in the part of hazing, the mother lives in Israel, the guy lived with his grandparents from the second grade.

[akarfoxhound]

What nafur hazing of the yearlings in the aviation unit? One and a half crippled in 4 rows in the "letki", they replace each other in a carousel dress, because there are no soldiers in the barracks, and for more than a dozen years so in the air units. Grandma said? She, in justification of some other silly nonsense, will stick ?

[faiver]

Quote: akarfoxhound

Grandma said? She’s going to put on something else as an excuse.

- it may very well be ....

[Avior]

The fact that it is at the airfield is not necessarily a flight unit with a small number of conscripts. BAO, there may be many conscripts.

[akarfoxhound]

Long time ago you served, long time ago ...
P.S. Today I met somewhere in the news feed that some zits-chairman of the "Soldiers' Mothers" committee (that liberoid office!) also said that the facts of extra-statutory relations with this "runner" had not been established. Really surprised if you found them