Military Review

Albanian warrior and commander Skanderberg

316

In the previous article (Second battle on the Kosovo field) was told about Janos Hunyadi, whose army at the decisive moment did not manage to unite with the troops of the ruler of Albania Georgy Kastrioti. In this one we will talk about this outstanding Albanian commander, who until his death in 1468 successfully fought the Ottoman troops, defeating one enemy army after another.


George Kastrioti in the Ottoman service


Giorgi Kastrioti was the youngest son of an Albanian prince, an honorary citizen of Venice and Ragusa, John (Gion) and a Serbian noblewoman Voisava. He was born in 1405, and in early childhood he was sent to the court of Sultan Murad II as a hostage. Here the boy was converted to Islam, and then, when he grew up, he was assigned to military service. In 1428, his father even had to apologize to the Venetians for his son's participation in campaigns against Christians.

In the Turkish army, George immediately attracted attention with his bravery and even earned the honorary nickname Iskander Bey (given in honor of Alexander the Great). European authors have changed this nickname: they got something very "Nordic" by ear - Skanderberg.


Monument to Skanderberg, Kruja town, Albania

By the way, in many films and novels about Dracula, the invented young Vlad Tepes (not yet a vampire) is very much like the real Skanderberg. In his youth, Vlad was indeed a hostage at the court of Mehmed II, but did not commit any military feats in the Ottoman service. Later he was sent home with rich gifts, and with the support of the Turks became the ruler of Wallachia, but was expelled by Janos Hunyadi. The first clash with the Ottomans at Vlad Tepes happened only in 1458, and he became famous not so much for victories as for cruelty, including in relation to the civilian population of the Christian regions controlled by the Ottomans.

But back to the real hero - Skanderberg. The young Albanian's service was going well: in 1443 (at the age of 28) he already commanded a five-thousandth cavalry detachment of Spahi, and a further successful career in the Turkish army was assured to him. But the voice of the blood was stronger.

Return to Albania


In November 1443, during the battle near the Serbian city of Nis, in which the Polish-Hungarian army of Hunyadi defeated the numerically superior Ottoman army, Skanderbeg, at the head of 300 Slavic Janissaries, went over to the Christians. At the headquarters of the Ottoman commander, he captured the rais effendi (the keeper of the seal), whom he forced to issue him a certificate of ownership of the city of Kruja, after which, having killed the official (as well as his entire retinue), he went with the former janissaries to his homeland. In Kruja, by order of Skanderberg, the entire Ottoman garrison was massacred. There he was baptized and called the people to rebellion. The Albanian elders recognized him as the ruler, and very soon he found himself at the head of the 12-strong army, with which he began to liberate the Albanian cities captured by the Ottomans.


M. Kramer. George Kastrioti Skanderberg, bust

In the spring of 1444, a congress of elders and princes of Albania was held in the city of Leger, which was also attended by the Montenegrin prince Stefan Crnoevich and the prince of Macedonia Georgy Aramnit. Here it was decided to jointly fight the Ottomans, and the so-called Lezhskaya League was created.

On July 29, 1444, on the plain of Torviol, the 15-strong Skanderberg army defeated the 25-strong Ottoman army. The Turks lost 8 thousand people killed, 2 thousand were captured, the Albanian losses amounted to 4 thousand soldiers.

This victory caused a great resonance in Europe, and the worried Sultan Murad II appointed a life pension of 100 ducats a year for Skanderberg's head, but there were no traitors in Albania.

After the defeat of Christian troops in the Second Battle of the Kosovo Field, the position of little Albania deteriorated significantly. And after the death of Janos Hunyadi from the plague in 1456, Skanderberg had no combat-ready allies ready to help. Despite everything, he continued to fight.

And one warrior in the field: Skanderberg against the Ottoman Empire


Albanian warrior and commander Skanderberg
Monument to Skanderberg, Rome, Albania square

After the victory in the Second Battle of the Kosovo field, Sultan Murad II tried to solve the Albanian problem. The forces of the sides were clearly unequal, and it seemed that the outcome of the new war was a foregone conclusion, but George Kastrioti had a different opinion. He was a talented commander, his army, although not striking in its numbers, consisted of brave and strong warriors personally loyal to him, and the mountainous terrain was perfect for ambushes and defense.

On October 10, 1445, Skanderberg defeated the army of Firuz Pasha in Macedonia. In 1446, the army of Mustafa Pasha was defeated at Debar in Albania.

In 1447-1448 Skanderberg in three battles defeated the troops of the Venetian Republic, an ally of the Ottomans. This war ended with Venice's commitment to sever the alliance with the Sultan and her consent to an annual tribute of 1400 ducats to Albania. But in 1550, Murad II, at the head of a 100-strong army, himself went against Skanderberg and laid siege to the city of Kruja, which was defended by a 4-strong garrison led by the Venetian Vran Konti. Venice again acted as an ally of the Ottomans, undertaking the obligation to supply the Ottoman army. Skanderberg, who had 6 cavalry and 2 infantry, was stationed in the surrounding mountains. Three bloody assaults of Kruja were unsuccessful, and Skanderberg constantly harassed the Ottomans with raids. Once he even managed to set fire to an enemy camp. The desperate sultan offered Conti a bribe of 300 thousand acce and a high post in the Ottoman army, then an honorary peace to Skanderberg in exchange for a moderate tribute. Having been refused by both, he was forced to lift the siege, having lost many soldiers in the retreat. All in all, this campaign cost him 20 thousand killed and missing soldiers.


Skanderberg Museum in the castle of Kruja, Albania

This war was the last for Sultan Murad II: in 1451 he died, never being able to conquer Albania.


Sultan Murad II, portrait from the Austrian National Library

For the second time in his life, his son Mehmed ascended the throne of the Ottoman Empire (recall that in 1444 Murad II tried to transfer power to his 12-year-old son - and this decision provoked the Crusade, which ended in a brutal defeat of the Christian army near Varna).

Nodar Shashik-oglu as Shehzade Mehmed, still from the film "The Great Warrior of Albania Skanderberg":


And this is how we see Mehmed II in the film "Dracula" (2014). Here, Vlad Tepes, who, as a hostage, lived at the palace and did not serve in the Ottoman army, is clearly attributed to the exploits of the young Skanderberg:


Dominic Cooper as Mehmed II in Dracula, 2014

Now Mehmed will not let go of the power from his hands and will enter history under the nickname Fatih the Conqueror.


Accession of Mehmed II to the throne. Thumbnail from the Hunername manuscript

Jandarli Khalil Pasha, the grand vizier of Murad II, Mehmed's father, who tried to "lead" the young sultan, was executed. There were no others who wanted to rule for Mehmed II.

Sultan Mehmed II and his craving for beauty


Mehmed II went down in history not only as a conqueror, but also as a builder: on his order, more than 500 large architectural objects were built: mosques, madrasahs, kulliyah (this is a complex that includes a mosque, madrasah, hamam, library, caravanserai, sometimes that something else), zawiye (shelter for the poor), tekke (Sufi monastery), bridges, etc.

The new ruler of the Ottoman Empire also became the first sultan to preserve his appearance for posterity. In Islam, the depiction of people is prohibited, but an exception was made for the all-powerful Ottoman ruler (and who would dare to reproach him?). Moreover, this sultan himself loved to draw, and some of his drawings have survived to this day (they are exhibited in the Topkapi Palace).

In 1461, Mehmed decided to acquire the then fashionable profile portrait on bronze. Therefore, he turned to Sigismondo Malatesta, who ruled in Rimini, with a request to send a good master to him. Thinking, he sent a certain Matteo de Pasti on this mission, but he did not manage to get to the Ottoman capital, since he was detained by the Venetians on the island of Crete and sent back.

However, Mehmed did not abandon his attempts to acquire Italian artists and architects. According to some reports, even the notorious Aristotle Fiorovanti was invited, but Antonio Averelino eventually went to the Sultan.

In 1474, Constanzo da Ferrara arrived in Constantinople from Naples, who created a portrait of Mehmed II on a bronze medal.


Constanzo da Ferrara, portrait of Sultan Mehmed II, 1481

In 1479, the Sultan received another similar portrait, made from a drawing by an unknown master by the Florentine Bertoldo di Giovanni. This work became a sign of gratitude to the ruler of Florence, Lorenzo Medici, for the extradition of one of the murderers of his brother Giuliano.

In the same year, at the conclusion of a peace treaty with Venice, at the request of the Sultan, a clause was added to the text about sending the "best medalist and painter" to Constantinople. As such, Gentile Bellini arrived - the Venetian master who created many portraits of the Doges.


Gentile Bellini, The Sultan Mehmet II

He was at the court of Mehmed II for about a year, decorating the walls of the Topkapi Palace with frescoes. These frescoes have not survived, since Bayezid II, who inherited his father, did not share his love for the fine arts. He considered Bellini's works contrary to Islam and therefore ordered to cover them with plaster.

But we got a little distracted. Let's go back to 1451, in which 17-year-old Mehmed II was not yet Fatih, and he had no time for portraits yet.

Mehmed II vs. Skanderberg


Wars with Skanderberg and for him were unsuccessful - two Ottoman armies were defeated in 1452 and in 1453. Moreover, the commander of the second army, Ibrahim Pasha, died in a personal duel with Skanderberg. The next Ottoman army was defeated in Albania in 1456. In September 1457, Skanderberg defeated the Turkish army, led by his nephew Hamza, who went over to the side of the Sultan, and the Ottoman commander Isak Bey.

In 1460 Sultan Mehmed II was forced to conclude a peace treaty with Giorgi Kastrioti, and in 1462 he even officially recognized him as the ruler of Albania. The signing of the peace treaty allowed Skanderberg to intervene in the war for the Neapolitan throne between Ferdinand, the illegitimate son of King Adfons V of Aragon and Sicily, and Rene of Anjou. From the victorious Ferdinand, he received the title of Duke of San Pietro.

In 1462, Sultan Mehmed, who captured the Peloponnese and Trebizond, sent a new army of about 23 thousand people to Albania. She was defeated at Mokre on 7 July, after which Skanderberg raided Ottoman-dominated Macedonia. He also won in 1464 and 1465. In total, until 1466, Giorgi Kastrioti managed to defeat 8 Turkish armies directed against him.

In 1466, Sultan Mehmed II himself led his troops to Albania, but did not manage to take the city of Kruja. After the return of the Sultan to Constantinople, the Ottoman troops besieging Kruja were defeated, and Balaban Pasha, who commanded them, was killed.

But two months later, another large army of Mahmud Pasha Angelovich was sent against Skanderberg. The Albanians by that time had suffered serious losses, and Skanderberg evaded the battle, leading his army into the mountains, and then - evacuated it, putting it on Venetian ships.

On January 17, 1468, the great enemy of the Ottoman Empire, who lost only one battle out of 30 in his life, died at the age of 62. The cause of his death was malaria, he was buried in the city of Leger, which belonged to Venice.


Portrait of Skanderberg on the Albanian banknote

The fact that the grave of an Albanian hero was discovered by them in the church of St. Nicholas in the city of Leger, they opened it and made amulets from his bones, setting them in gold and silver, testifies to how high the authority of Skanderberg was among his opponents, the Ottomans. These artifacts were highly valued: it was believed that they give their owner the valor and courage of the great Skanderberg.

There was no substitute for this hero: in 1478, 10 years after the death of Skanderberg, under the onslaught of the troops of Mehmed II, Kruja fell - the last stronghold of resistance to the Ottomans in Albania. This army was led by two renegades: the Albanian Koca Daud Pasha and "either Greek, or Serb, or Albanian" Gedik Ahmed Pasha.

In 1953, the Soviet Union and Albania shot a joint film "The Great Warrior of Albania Skanderberg" (directed by S. Yutkevich), which in 1954 even received a special award from the Higher Technical Commission for directing at the Cannes Film Festival. The role of Skanderberg in this film went to the People's Artist of the USSR A. Khorava.


Akaki Khorava as Skanderberg. The Albanian hero in his performance can easily be mistaken for an epic Russian hero

A. Vertinsky in this film appeared before the audience in the guise of the Doge of Venice, and Yakovlev played his debut role (an unnamed warrior) in it. Due to the deterioration of Soviet-Albanian relations through the fault of Khrushchev (which led, among other things, to the radicalization of the regime in Albania), this film is practically unknown in our country.


Poster of the Soviet-Albanian film "The Great Warrior of Albania Skanderberg", 1953

Christian Skanderberg remained a hero of Muslim Albania, and the black two-headed eagle from the coat of arms of the Kastrioti clan moved to the coat of arms of this state.

Coat of arms of the Kastrioti clan:


Coat of arms of Albania: Skanderberg's famous "goat" helmet clearly indicates the origin of the eagle:


In the next articles we will continue our story about the history of the Ottoman Empire. The notorious series "Game of Thrones" seems to be a pale and uninteresting shadow of the events that unfolded then on the shores of the Bosphorus and the expanses of Asia Minor. We will once again remember Mehmed II and talk about the famous Law of Fatih (which was sometimes called the “law on fratricide”), which had a huge impact on the history of Turkey and the fate of many Ottoman shehzade.
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  1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 7 November 2020 05: 27
    14
    Thank you Valery, it is easy to read and with sincere pleasure !!!
    Regards Vlad!
    1. Hunter 2
      Hunter 2 7 November 2020 07: 36
      10
      I will join the Cat, Gorgeous! It is read in one breath ... and for a long time the Illustrations are looked at with great pleasure. Ryzhov V.A - Thank you for your articles, We look forward to continuing! hi
      1. Lexus
        Lexus 7 November 2020 21: 31
        +2
        Alexey hi I join.
        Valery does not write bad articles. I always leave his work for "dessert". drinks
    2. vladcub
      vladcub 7 November 2020 17: 33
      +5
      Namesake, greetings. Indeed: "a holiday on our street" _: Valery dropped by!
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 7 November 2020 17: 40
        +3
        Evening, good namesake!
        Yesterday and the day before yesterday it was sour and sick!
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 7 November 2020 18: 08
          +5
          "Don't hang your nose, midshipmen!" (FROM) good
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 7 November 2020 18: 22
            +5
            "As long as there is Gascony in this world" (c).
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 7 November 2020 18: 59
              +4
              "And it hurts me to sleep from the Russians" (C)
              1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                Kote Pan Kokhanka 7 November 2020 19: 12
                +3
                “Our proud Cat does not surrender to the enemy,
                Nobody wants mercy "(c)
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 7 November 2020 19: 19
                  +5
                  "Contrary to Rudnev's order, the sailors saved two cats"
                  (Yukio Mishima "The Death of the Varyag")
  2. Korsar4
    Korsar4 7 November 2020 06: 12
    +9
    Thank you, Valery.

    Technical editor's note: You indicate "Skanderberg" somewhere, somewhere "Skanderberg".
    Canonically, it is considered, in my opinion, without the letter "r". But since the film has passed me by so far, and the monuments are silent, I quite like the “growling” version.
    1. Lexus
      Lexus 7 November 2020 21: 52
      +4
      Sergei hi ,
      the pronunciation of foreign names, and indeed any words, in different ways is generally accepted, devoid of crime, a pun. For example, the saber of the Albanian pirates "badeler", with the addition of an extra letter "p", confuses any search service, and directs the interested person into the hot embrace of sodomite obscenities. lol
    2. AlexVas44
      AlexVas44 8 November 2020 05: 06
      +2
      I was immediately struck by the double spelling of the name of this Albanian hero Kastrioti. Starting with the film (I watched it once in the 50s, but the name is still in my memory), then TSB and, finally, Wikipedia - they "give out" without the letter "r". Although, in principle, we are the same - as they say, so and we will call. laughing
  3. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 7 November 2020 06: 22
    +9
    But the voice of the blood was stronger.
    It became interesting, there were still similar examples in the history of the Ottoman Empire. For it is hard to believe in the “voice of blood” and other “beautiful impulses of souls”. There was probably another reason.
    Thank you, Valery!
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 7 November 2020 10: 01
      11
      The young Albanian's service was going well: in 1443 (at the age of 28) he already commanded a five-thousandth cavalry detachment of Spahi, and a further successful career in the Turkish army was assured to him. But the voice of the blood was stronger.
      There was probably another reason.
      I would say there were several reasons. The point is. that Skanderbeg was at a certain time, somewhere from 1440, sanjak-bey sanjak Dibra. It is one of the sanjaks of the Ottoman Empire, whose capital was the city of Debar in the modern republic of North Macedonia. The western part of its territory today belongs to Albania, and the eastern part to the Republic of North Macedonia. In addition to Debar, the territory of this sandjak included part of the territory of Northern Albania, Kruyu and the regions between the Mat and Black Drin rivers. That is, for several years he, in essence, was in his homeland. Taking into account the fact that he kept in touch with his relatives all the time, and the resistance to the Turks in Albania never stopped, it is obvious that all these processes could not escape him, and at some stage Skanderbeg had the decision to lead this struggle.
      This was clearly not a spontaneous decision.
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 7 November 2020 10: 32
        +8
        "If you can't prevent - take the lead"
        1. vladcub
          vladcub 7 November 2020 18: 50
          +3
          If you don't want to be swept away by the flow
        2. Lexus
          Lexus 7 November 2020 21: 56
          +3
          Anton hi ,
          sounds like a provocative proposal. wink drinks

      2. vladcub
        vladcub 7 November 2020 17: 36
        +6
        V.N. is a reasonable assumption. Doesn't sound like spontaneity
    2. Bonk838
      Bonk838 13 November 2020 16: 52
      0
      Regarding the "call of blood", of course there were, for example, Dimitrie Cantemir.
  4. Asad
    Asad 7 November 2020 06: 37
    +8
    Excellent article, read it with pleasure! I look forward to other publications! A well-deserved plus!
  5. tlauicol
    tlauicol 7 November 2020 07: 24
    +9
    good write good articles
  6. parusnik
    parusnik 7 November 2020 07: 47
    18
    After the conquest of Albania, the country was previously Christian, began to Islamize. Of course, the feudal lords were the first to convert to Islam. The Ottomans acted using economic methods. The Porta several times increased the annual poll tax for Christians - jizya. Since those families who accepted the Muslim faith were exempted from paying the jizya, and the increased taxation for Christian families became an unbearable burden. , the latter, due to the circumstances, were forced to convert to Islam. Thank you for the article. The film is wonderful. Notably, in the first edition of the Children's Encyclopedia (1958-1962), there was a detailed article about Skanderberg. In the second (1964-1969) it is shorter, and in third 1971-1978) short note. Yes, it does not apply to the article, but today, on November 7, 1917, the Second All-Russian Congress of Soviets of Workers 'and Soldiers' Deputies began its work, at which on the night of November 7-8, Soviet power and the creation of a new state of workers and peasants were proclaimed. Happy Holidays!
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 7 November 2020 09: 48
      10
      November 7 is also another day of the Military Glory of our Motherland - the Parade on Red Square in Grozny 41 !!!
      Yours!
      1. Astra wild2
        Astra wild2 7 November 2020 18: 20
        +7
        Dear colleague Vlad, for me, November 7 is a holiday of my happy childhood.
        My beloved mother always took me to the demonstration: on May 1 or November 7. I proudly waved the flag and fantasized when I grew up and ..... childhood fantasies
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 7 November 2020 19: 25
          10
          We also went to demonstrations. The plant was divided into workshops, they got flags and banners. Ahead was the change of the leader. Steelworkers, rolling makers, metallurgists and foundry workers were cut for this place. Various industrial, construction, concrete and other organizations closed. But the first was the plant with the posters "STAN 250", "Martin", "Electroceh", Stan 750 ", Foundry, Rolling First, etc.
          As a small person, you could go to the factory any day or night. Drink some hodgepodge or tea, and most importantly see with your own eyes working with white metal from the heat on rolling mills, fiery yellow in open-hearth ladles, crimson red-hot splashes of patterns in the foundry. They didn’t drive you, if it worked out you could be allowed to press the start button of the shafts, hold the lever of the open-hearth harvester, give a nozzle of slag.
          This is a real understanding of labor and the property that we have lost !!!
          Yours!
          1. Astra wild2
            Astra wild2 7 November 2020 20: 17
            +4
            I have never been near open-hearth furnaces, but my dad took me twice to the lathe, and the old turner, Uncle Zhora, let me go to the lathe and let me sharpen something. They were afraid of Uncle Zhora, he was the best turner, and there was a beast in the fight
            1. depressant
              depressant 8 November 2020 15: 10
              +4
              Hmmm ... And at the age of four I would crawl under a table covered with a green cloth in the office of the chief of staff and wander around the barracks with impunity. My memories of the manufacturing process are dim compared to yours, Astra))
              1. Astra wild2
                Astra wild2 8 November 2020 15: 27
                +3
                Lyudmila Yakovlevna, you are the daughter of an officer (right?), And my dad is an engineer, and therefore my childhood memories are intertwined with production.
                I now live in the same city where my dad and I went to the factory.
                The other day I was in that area, I went specially, I remembered my childhood. I wanted to see Uncle Zhora, but alas. I don't even know his surname, then I still could not read.
                1. depressant
                  depressant 8 November 2020 17: 36
                  +2
                  Yes, I am the daughter of an officer)))
                  Now call that, and you will be reviled by both patriots and liberals. Someone has laid down a tradition, the origins of which I did not catch in time, and every time I think: "And what about me?"))))
              2. Aviator_
                Aviator_ 9 November 2020 22: 46
                +1
                And my father took me from the kindergarten and put me to play in the glass navigator's cabin of the IL-28, while he taught the cadets. Here in this booth.
                The booth was in the audience. An unforgettable experience.
  7. Van 16
    Van 16 7 November 2020 08: 57
    +5
    A lot of interesting and a lot of new, previously unknown to me, thank you!
  8. samarin1969
    samarin1969 7 November 2020 09: 18
    +5
    After all, the Janissaries had a "voice of blood"! Vaughn, and Mameluk Beibars sent the builders of the mosque to his native Crimea.
    1. Korsar4
      Korsar4 7 November 2020 09: 20
      10
      I catch myself thinking that the story of each of the Janissaries is a separate plot.
      Worthy, for example, "Mtsyri".
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 7 November 2020 18: 16
        +4
        "But I managed to stick it in my throat,
        And turn it twice there,
        Your weapon. Ptah howled
        I rushed with my last strength
        The cheese fell out
        With him there was such a cheat! "
        (Zatoichi "The Legend of the Dinosaur") laughing
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 7 November 2020 18: 18
          +4
          Something in "cut and glue" has not grown together. And I watched "The Legend of the Dinosaur" as a child in our Summer Cinema.

          Then Summer burned down.
          1. Phil77
            Phil77 7 November 2020 18: 39
            +4
            Quote: Korsar4
            "The Legend of the Dinosaur"

            What is your most memorable moment in the film? winked
            1. Korsar4
              Korsar4 7 November 2020 18: 40
              +5
              The appearance of the pterodactyl.
              1. Phil77
                Phil77 7 November 2020 18: 42
                +3
                Quote: Korsar4
                The appearance of the pterodactyl

                And half a girl?
                1. Korsar4
                  Korsar4 7 November 2020 18: 45
                  +4
                  I chose between a pterodactyl, a girl and a horse.

                  Since then I did not keep records: I chose a memorable creation.
                  Girls then, probably, were less worried.
                  1. Phil77
                    Phil77 7 November 2020 18: 48
                    +4
                    Quote: Korsar4
                    Girls then, probably, were less worried.

                    Well, we were not ready for films of this direction, but people flocked to the cinemas for him!
                    1. Korsar4
                      Korsar4 7 November 2020 18: 51
                      +4
                      For a student - definitely.

                      In general, the first films watched in the cinema are etched into the memory.

                      The second film I watched was The Adventures of Odyssey.
                      1. Phil77
                        Phil77 7 November 2020 18: 53
                        +4
                        Quote: Korsar4
                        For a student - definitely.

                        Not only! I just looked, in 79 it was 48 million !!!!
                      2. Phil77
                        Phil77 7 November 2020 18: 58
                        +4
                        Quote: Korsar4
                        In general, the first films watched in the cinema are etched into the memory.

                        Well, you can't do without this nice person!
                      3. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 7 November 2020 19: 08
                        +3
                        Let's just say that your namesake and I are slightly younger, therefore, "films from childhood" are slightly different ...
                      4. Phil77
                        Phil77 7 November 2020 19: 16
                        +2
                        Quote: 3x3zsave
                        your namesake and I are a little younger, therefore, "films from childhood" are slightly different ...

                        Ha, ha, ha! Anton, all generations have known Citizen Fantomas, hence the question: Will the remake be filmed?
                      5. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 7 November 2020 19: 22
                        +3
                        Alas, Sergei, we don't know each other. If I now call my middle son and ask about Fantomas, I think he will be surprised at the novelty of the information ...
                      6. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 7 November 2020 19: 26
                        +3
                        I will also conduct an experiment.
                        Although when Konstantin asked about the young lady who survived the Titanic and other ships from this series, the 16-year-old son reacted with knowledge of the situation.
                      7. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 7 November 2020 19: 28
                        +3
                        Your son is an advanced guy!
                      8. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 7 November 2020 19: 30
                        +3
                        In two years, we'll see where this "advanced" will be.
                      9. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 7 November 2020 19: 44
                        +3
                        "-It's foggy in my head, anxious in my heart and I always want to run somewhere ... What's wrong with me, Bagheera? Maybe it's love?
                        -No, Mowgli. This is the spring draft! "
                  2. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 7 November 2020 19: 34
                    +3
                    I called and asked.
                    "-Sasha, do you know who Fantomas is?
                    - Mmnnee, uh, one of the villains in the 60's films. "
                  3. Astra wild2
                    Astra wild2 8 November 2020 17: 43
                    +1
                    He also knows something. I only watched Aniskin and Fantomas. My mommy didn't like Fantomas, I loved mommy very much and listened to her recommendations
                  4. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 8 November 2020 18: 07
                    +1
                    Sometimes it turns out that our children are sometimes more informative than we are at their age.
                  5. Korsar4
                    Korsar4 9 November 2020 08: 24
                    +3
                    There is more information now. The question is how to structure it.
                  6. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 9 November 2020 10: 26
                    +2
                    Cut off unnecessary streams.
                  7. Korsar4
                    Korsar4 9 November 2020 10: 36
                    +2
                    This is the element of structuring.
                  8. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 9 November 2020 10: 43
                    +2
                    Just turn off the TV. Better yet, throw it away.
                  9. Korsar4
                    Korsar4 9 November 2020 11: 12
                    +3
                    TV is superfluous.
  9. Phil77
    Phil77 7 November 2020 19: 27
    +3
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    about Fantomas

    How do they live ... without Fantomas ????? laughing
  10. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 7 November 2020 20: 19
    +2
    They live normally. You don't live without Pennywise, right?
  11. Phil77
    Phil77 7 November 2020 20: 30
    +2
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    Pennywise

    I was already thinking: How boring my life was without him! lol
  12. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 7 November 2020 20: 34
    +2
    You flatter me! repeat laughing
  13. Phil77
    Phil77 7 November 2020 20: 40
    +2
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    You flatter me!

    Why?
  14. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 7 November 2020 20: 56
    +3
    Because, I just started the path of "evil Pierrot"
  15. Phil77
    Phil77 7 November 2020 21: 00
    +2
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    Because, I just started the path of "evil Pierrot"

    Fantômas is more awesome! laughing

  16. Korsar4
    Korsar4 7 November 2020 19: 24
    +3
    Right. The first association with Fantomas is Aniskin.
    Already on the Internet I looked at the original source.
  17. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 7 November 2020 19: 30
    +1
    Yeah, the same bullshit!
  18. Phil77
    Phil77 7 November 2020 19: 34
    +4
    Quote: Korsar4
    fountainhead

    Oh !!! There were a lot of them !!!! 1914,1932,1937,1949!
    The most famous is of course 1964, Jean Marais. good
  19. Korsar4
    Korsar4 7 November 2020 19: 44
    +1
    He is. Others did not even enter my head yet.
  20. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 8 November 2020 18: 20
    +1
    Nothing more famous and popular than the image of Dracula and the "monster of Frankenstein"?
  21. Phil77
    Phil77 9 November 2020 20: 07
    +1
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    Nothing more famous and popular than the image of Dracula and the "monster of Frankenstein"?

    Hello Anton!
    But I think yes! At a certain point in time, yes! Specifically, the middle and end of the sixties.
  22. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 9 November 2020 20: 20
    +1
    Well, if you say that the first "kinoFantomas" appeared in 1914, then "my" characters are losing the championship.
  23. Phil77
    Phil77 9 November 2020 20: 27
    +1
    Yes, the first film adaptation of the novel by Allen and Souvestre was in the 14th year, alas, alas, of the last !!!! century. But Fantomas gained real popularity after the 1964 film. By the way, in the USSR, there were long legends about the fourth part of the series. film series * A corpse in a green suitcase *.
  24. Phil77
    Phil77 9 November 2020 20: 04
    +1
    Quote: Korsar4
    Aniskin

    Good evening Sergey!
    And Aniskin? Who is he associated with? If you continue the associative chain?

    I think only with him, with the Great Actor Mikhail Ivanovich Zhanrov, no?
  25. Korsar4
    Korsar4 9 November 2020 21: 40
    +1
    Yes. This is the first, ingrained thought.
    But if you think a little, a song from another movie emerges: "Alder Earring".
  26. Korsar4
    Korsar4 7 November 2020 19: 29
    +2
    And Louis de Funes shone with my peers in "Gendarmes ...".
  27. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 7 November 2020 20: 21
    0
    For me de Funes, this is "The Great Walk"
  28. Korsar4
    Korsar4 7 November 2020 20: 29
    +1
    In The Gentleman of Epsom, paired with Jean Gabin.
  29. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 7 November 2020 20: 32
    +1
    Alas, I don't remember ...
  30. Phil77
    Phil77 7 November 2020 20: 56
    +2
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    Alas, I don't remember

    Have you watched this film? 75?
  31. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 7 November 2020 21: 00
    +2
    Sergei, I watched a lot of things as a child, I don't even remember what ... So, do you remember "Adella hasn't had dinner yet"?
  32. Phil77
    Phil77 7 November 2020 21: 06
    +3
    No, she passed me by. This is a frame from the movie * The Old Gun *. A stunning French film with Romy Schneider, how a small peaceful man turns into ... a fearless and calculating avenger-lone. And the scene when the heroine Schneider is burned from a flamethrower is simply terrible! Really scary!
  33. Phil77
    Phil77 7 November 2020 21: 08
    +1
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    "Adella hasn't had dinner yet?"

    And this is not a sequel to * The Ghost of Mauriceville Castle * I watched it!
  34. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 7 November 2020 21: 17
    +2
    No, it's about a predatory plant. I was about five years old. Father, secretly from my mother, took me down. Probably the first horror in my life.
  35. Phil77
    Phil77 7 November 2020 21: 21
    +2
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    predatory plant.

    Aha! And then the Czechs had a film of 75, about the adventures of detective Nick Carter. With the same name * Adela has not had dinner yet *. recourse But now I looked! We are talking about the same film! Well, considering that during the viewing it was only five years old, then there are no questions.
  36. vladcub
    vladcub 8 November 2020 15: 05
    +4
    I don’t remember that. I remember: "Major Zeman's 0 cases", "Adela" I don't remember
  37. Phil77
    Phil77 7 November 2020 20: 53
    +2
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    Great walk "

    I watched it too!


    [/ Center]
  38. Lexus
    Lexus 7 November 2020 22: 07
    +4
    Considering that the actor's star Louis de Funes rose late enough, already in adulthood, you really regret that he died too early.
  39. Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 7 November 2020 20: 03
    +2
    And which one I had, Aibolit 66 or? I remembered: "Teens in the Universe", I watched it on March 7, 1979. Why did I remember? Dad gave me denig so that I, as an adult, went to a children's cafe: "Gourmet", before that I only went with adults sometimes, but I went to the cinema
  40. Korsar4
    Korsar4 7 November 2020 20: 17
    +2
    The first was the Blue Patrol. But with "Odyssey", of course, you cannot compare.
  41. Oprichnik
    Oprichnik 8 November 2020 16: 37
    +2
    1953 "13" in the neighboring part - in the barracks of the communications regiment on Mayakovsky street in Minsk. And then a lot of Chinese films, where they crowd the Japanese, then about Skanderbeg, etc.
  42. Phil77
    Phil77 7 November 2020 20: 33
    +3
    Quote: Astra wild2
    Aibolit 66 or?


    This one? And then there is still 38 years. laughing
  43. Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 8 November 2020 17: 51
    -1
    I have not seen the 1938 version, for me Aibolit 66 is old, and 1938 is generally prehistoric
  • Catfish
    Catfish 7 November 2020 19: 54
    +5
    And half a girl?

    Which half do you mean? laughing

    1. Astra wild2
      Astra wild2 7 November 2020 20: 35
      +8
      Konstantin, I prefer the upper half, I was like that, alas, in the past
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 7 November 2020 20: 39
        +4
        Everything flows, everything changes, but each age is good in its own way. love
        1. Phil77
          Phil77 7 November 2020 20: 57
          +3
          Quote: Sea Cat
          Everything flows, everything changes, but each age is good in its own way.

          Hi Konstantin, only the upper part of the girl remains in the film!
        2. Catfish
          Catfish 7 November 2020 21: 10
          +3
          Hello, Sergey! I saw this movie in the Pravda newspaper club, most of all I liked the Toyotovsky jeep, in which the main samurai was driving to fight the dragon. But in general, of course, a funny movie. drinks
        3. Phil77
          Phil77 8 November 2020 08: 31
          +3
          Quote: Sea Cat
          Toyotovsky "jeep,

          Good morning Konstantin!
          Here he is, handsome!
        4. Catfish
          Catfish 8 November 2020 09: 22
          +3
          Good morning, Sergey!
          Until recently, a replica of this "Land Cruiser" was produced in Brazil under the name of Toyot "Bandeirante".
  • vladcub
    vladcub 7 November 2020 21: 18
    +2
    Astra, don't worry, at 60 you had a gorgeous song: "under the wing of an airplane" and there are the following words: "The main thing, guys, do not grow old in heart
    1. Phil77
      Phil77 8 November 2020 08: 52
      +5
      Quote: vladcub
      at 60 you had a gorgeous song: "under the wing of an airplane" and there are such words: "the main thing, guys, do not grow old at heart

      The time of romantics, physicists, lyricists.
      * Hold on geologist,
      be strong geologist.
      You are the wind and sun brother. *
      Eh !!!!! * Times are not chosen, they live and die. *
      This is about today!
    2. Catfish
      Catfish 8 November 2020 09: 42
      +4
      It always has been. request
    3. Lexus
      Lexus 8 November 2020 11: 20
      +5
      In the name of the salvation of mankind - "withоI'm drowning ... more often, deeper, more energetically ... repeat good

    4. Catfish
      Catfish 8 November 2020 12: 25
      +3
      ... more often, deeper, more energetically ...

      I think "Satan" will be pleased.
    5. Lexus
      Lexus 8 November 2020 12: 32
      +3
      If only she would not snore later.
    6. Catfish
      Catfish 8 November 2020 12: 42
      +2
      Do not vulgarize the sacred! am laughing drinks
    7. Lexus
      Lexus 8 November 2020 12: 55
      +3
      Farts are also far from butterflies. lol
    8. Catfish
      Catfish 8 November 2020 12: 56
      +2
      At this very moment ??? !!! wassat
    9. Lexus
      Lexus 8 November 2020 12: 58
      +2
      It comes out differently. wassat
  • vladcub
    vladcub 8 November 2020 14: 37
    +5
    That's right. Among them there are such bitches so that the moderators do not get angry, because there are so many epithets.
    And almost everyone at first has an angelic voice and appearance.
    This is one womanist who got mad at Bernard Shaw and says
    - If I were your wife. I would poison you "
    -If I were your husband, I would gladly poison myself "
  • Lexus
    Lexus 8 November 2020 14: 42
    +3
    Svyatoslav hi , he also said

    "Connoisseurs of women are rarely optimistic."
  • Phil77
    Phil77 8 November 2020 16: 18
    +3
    Quote: lexus
    he said too

  • Phil77
    Phil77 8 November 2020 16: 16
    +3
    Quote: Sea Cat
    Do not vulgarize the sacred!


    Exactly!
    * What are you laughing at, stallions! * laughing
  • Catfish
    Catfish 8 November 2020 16: 40
    +4
    It remains to remember the unforgettable Governor in the brilliant performance of Tolubeev: "Who are you laughing at? ..."
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 8 November 2020 18: 45
    +1
    "Elusive Avengers" is a simple song. The wife of my "baby", when she saw him for the first time in the summer, she squeaked with delight. Now that he is at work, she is discovering Soviet cinema. She is from Soviet films, she knew: "Well, wait a minute" and 2-3 more and all
  • Phil77
    Phil77 8 November 2020 19: 10
    +2
    Quote: Astra wild2
    she discovers Soviet cinema. She is from Soviet films, she knew: "Well, wait a minute" and 2-3 more and all


    The situation clearly needs clarification.
    How is that?! winked
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 8 November 2020 20: 46
    0
    Elementary. She is a pure-blooded Estonian, 18 years old, that was born and raised in sovereign Estonia, and there our cinema is not very "respected".
    Now, she willingly watches our fairy tales Morozko, The Scarlet Flower and so on, Gaidai's films. Looked at "Seventeen Moments of Spring", the kid fell in love with "His Excellency's Adjutant" and she also likes it
  • vladcub
    vladcub 8 November 2020 14: 22
    +4
    Hi, Kostya. I remember one of the Romans said: "Oh, times. About morals."
    Today I went to: "History", and there "it's empty in my pocket, cabbage has grown" (do you remember that joke about an airplane?) Again lockdaun.
  • Catfish
    Catfish 8 November 2020 14: 48
    +2
    Hello, Glory. hi
    Yes, we are orphaned, the question is for how long, but it’s somehow uncomfortable.
    And about the airplane, you mean that?
    "So you need it, don't be so bad,
    You have nothing to stare at eropln! "(C) smile
  • vladcub
    vladcub 8 November 2020 14: 52
    +2
    No children's chorus: "airplane, airplane, put me in my pocket, but my pocket is empty"
  • Catfish
    Catfish 8 November 2020 14: 58
    +3
    Ha, haven't heard before.
    It was so:
    "Bomb carrier planes fly across the sky,
    Want to fill us with earth, with your head,
    And I, a young boy, am lying with a shot through my leg. "(C)
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 8 November 2020 15: 04
    +3
    "The lower rank Bumbarash took a heroic death for faith, king and fatherland through a balloon" (c).
  • Catfish
    Catfish 8 November 2020 15: 27
    +4
    "A German is sitting, drinking kakava ..." (c)
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 8 November 2020 17: 22
    +4
    “How do you drink cocoa there,
    With saccharin, or without? " (from).
  • Catfish
    Catfish 8 November 2020 17: 32
    +3
    Sugar is a WHITE POISON! stop
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 8 November 2020 17: 37
    +3
    "I would have poisoned myself with a pink salmon now!" (from).
  • Catfish
    Catfish 8 November 2020 17: 46
    +3
    This is not the best way ...
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 8 November 2020 17: 52
    +4
    "Or the plague will pick me up,
    Or frost ossified,
    Or I will be pierced by a barrier in my forehead
    Disabled disability ”(c).
  • Catfish
    Catfish 8 November 2020 19: 30
    +3
    "I cheep, I do it dry,
    Chi by prospandiori vin? "(C)
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 8 November 2020 21: 26
    +2
    “Blind Cupid shot an arrow at me,
    And young blood boiled ”(c).
  • Catfish
    Catfish 8 November 2020 21: 29
    +2
    Aha, "Bezenchuk Gignulsya" (c)
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 8 November 2020 21: 59
    +2
    "I go out alone on the road" (c).
  • Catfish
    Catfish 8 November 2020 22: 07
    +2
    "Eh, roads, dust and fog, cold, alarm, and steppe weeds" (c)
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 8 November 2020 22: 55
    +2
    "We still have things to do at home" (c).
  • Catfish
    Catfish 8 November 2020 23: 08
    +2
    "The entrance from the yard is famous
    Under the name "back door"
    In that staircase as on the estate
    The Black Cat lives. "(C)
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 8 November 2020 23: 10
    +3
    “And the hawker at the metro
    Beige oranges "(c).
  • Catfish
    Catfish 8 November 2020 23: 24
    +2
    "And I walk the streets, laughing,
    I can handle any miracles
    The lanterns hang down - you don't want to eat,
    Like bananas in Somalia. "(C)
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 8 November 2020 23: 32
    +3
    "The screams of parrots are heard
    And voice monkeys "(c).
  • Catfish
    Catfish 8 November 2020 23: 36
    +2
    "We're going through Uruguay,
    Night at least gouge out your eyes ... "(c)
    Happily, Sergei, I'm bye-bye smile
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 8 November 2020 23: 43
    +2
    And rightly so. I have my first pair tomorrow.
    And at least five hours must be pressed down.

    Good night, Constantine.
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 9 November 2020 10: 25
    +2
    The fate of the teacher. Already 30 years have passed since the student days, and again "tomorrow the first couple" ...
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 9 November 2020 10: 34
    +3
    Not a bad option. Although, of course, there are limitations.
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 9 November 2020 10: 40
    +2
    Simply, today I plunged into youth. I have a day off. I remembered the work in the "Alexandrinka".
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 8 November 2020 19: 00
    0
    I love sweet
  • Phil77
    Phil77 8 November 2020 19: 13
    +2
    Quote: Astra wild2
    I love sweet

  • Catfish
    Catfish 8 November 2020 19: 50
    +1

    There is nothing more to add. laughing
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 8 November 2020 19: 06
    +2
    Bumbarash, I once read in "Pioneer", but I did not like the film. The Avengers are many times more interesting.
  • Catfish
    Catfish 8 November 2020 19: 32
    +2
    So these are completely different genres. request
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 8 November 2020 21: 29
    +2
    Some songs from "Bumbarash" are worth something - a masterpiece on a masterpiece.
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 8 November 2020 17: 55
    +4
    "Fly ducks, fly ducks
    Oh, fly ducks!
    (Pause)
    And two geese! "(C)
  • Catfish
    Catfish 8 November 2020 19: 25
    +4
    and! (Pause)
    And two geese! "(C)

    Two ... wild ... absolutely!
    One is a lieutenant, the other is a captain. bully
  • Phil77
    Phil77 8 November 2020 19: 32
    +2
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    And two geese! "

    *Two merry geese lived with granny.
    One gray, the other white
    two cheerful geese.*
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 8 November 2020 18: 56
    +2
    Good evening. I'm terrified: 2 times a week in the "History" desert.
    P.
    S
    As a child I heard a similar chorus
    Helicopter, helicopter, carry me in flight, and in flight it's empty - cabbage has grown
  • Phil77
    Phil77 8 November 2020 19: 18
    +3
    Quote: Astra wild2
    I'm terrified: 2 times a week in the "History" desert.


    But there is also a plus: can you communicate on abstract topics, books, movies, women? laughing laughing laughing
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 8 November 2020 20: 30
    0
    I'm used to learning something in History, but it's BORING.
    R.
    S
    Probably, the moderators will accustom us to this.
  • Hantengri
    Hantengri 9 November 2020 00: 02
    +2
    Quote: Astra wild2
    Good evening. I'm terrified: 2 times a week in "History" is empty

    Quote: Astra wild2
    I'm used to learning something in History, but it's BORING.
    R.
    S
    Probably, the moderators will accustom us to this.

    "Don't worry, be happy!" (from) )))
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 9 November 2020 08: 52
    +1
    Han, I don’t know Latin
  • Hantengri
    Hantengri 9 November 2020 19: 17
    +1
    That's not Latin, but English!
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 9 November 2020 19: 33
    +1
    Afraid for my Spanish laughing
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 9 November 2020 21: 30
    +2
    I studied English for a month and a half. If you change 3 schools in the middle of the school year then ...
  • Hantengri
    Hantengri 9 November 2020 22: 15
    0
    I had about the same situation with English at school. This was later, already at the university, into me, by the method: "They beat him in the face with a teapot" they managed to hammer at least something. But how can you not know: "Don't worry, be happy!" (Do not worry Be Happy!)!? This is a very ancient meme!

    Oh-oh-very free translation into Russian:
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 9 November 2020 22: 20
    0
    In. So and so Dunno
  • vladcub
    vladcub 8 November 2020 20: 19
    0
    I don't know tacos
  • Catfish
    Catfish 8 November 2020 20: 35
    +3
    Then there was:

    "A nurse comes to me, call Tamarka,
    Come on, they say, I'll start the wound,
    And I'll put the Studebaker next to me in the ambulance.

    I knitted Aksinya across the field, a blue skirt,
    In big soldiers' boots
    Afanasy chased her eight-by-seven
    With a big speedometer in hand. "

    I don't remember any more, at one time I heard it with an accordion in the yard. smile
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 8 November 2020 11: 46
    +4
    “And there will be fungi for vodka, tea with cheesecakes,
    How old men will get along with old women ”(c).
  • Phil77
    Phil77 8 November 2020 11: 52
    +5
    It's nothing! If only they didn't get to * Bavarian *.
  • Lexus
    Lexus 8 November 2020 12: 49
    +3
    "Stirlitz walked through the forest and saw blue spruce. How then
    it turned out that the gays not only ate, but also drank. "(C)
  • vladcub
    vladcub 8 November 2020 14: 59
    +4
    There are a great many about Stirlitz. Some are already in a new edition. Possibly good ones, but both the old version of the film and the anecdotes are closer to me
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 8 November 2020 13: 14
    +3
    “After all, we forgive Kuzmin
    And to his close friend
    That innocent, in general, guilt,
    So that today would be merit "(c).
  • vladcub
    vladcub 8 November 2020 14: 06
    +2
    Sergey, good day. : "Hold on, geologist" "vaguely signs, and" Under the wing of an airplane "sounded everywhere.
    Actually, I'm not a fan of music, but Pakhmutova, Dobronravov, Derbenev are POWER.
  • Lexus
    Lexus 8 November 2020 09: 50
    +5
    Uncle Kostya hi ,
    I prefer according to the list, in completeness and according to the natural purpose. repeat
    "And what, so it was possible?" (FROM) wassat
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 8 November 2020 10: 13
      +1
      "And what, so it was possible?"

      Yes, brother, you know, there are problems ...
      1. Lexus
        Lexus 8 November 2020 10: 35
        +3
        "Evil tongues" argue that you need to "hang up" - and it will be suitable not only "for beer". repeat

      2. Catfish
        Catfish 8 November 2020 10: 44
        +2
        A long process, and the product is preferably consumed fresh. laughing
      3. Lexus
        Lexus 8 November 2020 11: 02
        +5
        This is exactly the case when the "process" itself is important. And "hastily" - "is not blessed." wassat

      4. Catfish
        Catfish 8 November 2020 12: 17
        +3
        That's for sure, there's nowhere to rush ... laughing
      5. Lexus
        Lexus 8 November 2020 12: 22
        +6
        "He who understands life is no longer in a hurry." (C) Comrade Sukhov will come and "settle" everything. fellow

      6. Catfish
        Catfish 8 November 2020 12: 46
        +4
        "Haste is needed only when catching fleas." (C)
      7. Lexus
        Lexus 8 November 2020 12: 53
        +5
        "Sex without a lady is a sign of foolishness." (FROM)
  • vladcub
    vladcub 8 November 2020 14: 44
    +2
    "Faithful Hand" is the first movie I've seen in a theater. A few years ago I reviewed it on YouTube
  • Phil77
    Phil77 7 November 2020 18: 45
    +3
    Quote: Korsar4
    The appearance of the pterodactyl

    1. Lexus
      Lexus 7 November 2020 22: 14
      +4
      Sergei hi ,
      when modern "pterosraktili" diligently "bomb" a freshly washed car, I, like a child, rejoice that cows do not fly. Especially considering the panoramic roof. bully

      1. Phil77
        Phil77 8 November 2020 08: 26
        +2
        Quote: lexus
        when modern "pterosraktili" diligently "bomb" a freshly washed car,

        Hi Lesh!
        And if * wider * you look at it? laughing
        1. Lexus
          Lexus 8 November 2020 09: 59
          +3
          Hello, Sergey! hi
          The current bureaucrats with this "manage" worse than pigeons. "Don't feed with bread." (FROM) lol


  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 7 November 2020 18: 53
    +4
    Something in "cut and glue" did not grow together.
    I'm sorry. This is the next stage of the game, which I, however, spoke about.
    1. Korsar4
      Korsar4 7 November 2020 18: 56
      +4
      I guessed.
      And immediately, thanks to Sergey, the branch of memories grew.

      And whether a leopard, a pterodactyl is clearly not a livestock.
      1. Phil77
        Phil77 7 November 2020 19: 01
        +4
        Quote: Korsar4
        the branch of memories grew.

        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 7 November 2020 19: 26
          +3
          There are also purely literary "tricks". However, the second "level" of the Game, mixes genres and methods of art interpretation.
      2. Catfish
        Catfish 7 November 2020 19: 45
        +4
        "The claws of the pterodactyl, seeking the firmament,
        And beneath it is a bubbling, fiery fart! "
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 7 November 2020 19: 49
          +3
          “But the terrible
          And a disgusting dragon "(c).
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 7 November 2020 20: 00
            +3
            "In those places that are not worse,
            There lived a big dragon.
            He swallowed princesses for dinner
            With mayonnaise and noodles. ") C)
            1. Korsar4
              Korsar4 7 November 2020 20: 11
              +3
              "Cannibal
              The ogre
              Invites
              For lunch "(c).
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 7 November 2020 20: 21
                +4
                "I beat him like a child" (c) Ogre-Ellochka.
              2. Korsar4
                Korsar4 7 November 2020 20: 27
                +3
                "And if you whip it, then you cannot reject it!" (from).
              3. Catfish
                Catfish 7 November 2020 20: 38
                +2
                “Somewhere in the middle of the line, loudly, so that everyone could hear, Don Sera for the third time in the last five minutes proclaimed:“ I don’t see why even a noble don should not take a couple of rods on behalf of his Eminence! ”(C)
              4. Korsar4
                Korsar4 7 November 2020 20: 43
                +2
                "His Eminence
                We were promised heavenly bliss in heaven ”(c).
              5. Catfish
                Catfish 7 November 2020 20: 54
                +1
                "First, step forward - and to heaven!
                - First second…
                And every second is also a hero -
                Go to heaven will follow you.
                - First-second. "(C)
              6. Korsar4
                Korsar4 7 November 2020 22: 39
                +2
                “They must be dropped
                From the pass "(c).
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 7 November 2020 20: 25
    +1
    Good evening Konstantin, and what kind of "gourmet" he is. Where is it from?
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 7 November 2020 20: 33
      +3
      Good evening, Vera. hi
      And God knows him, he lives somewhere. smile
    2. Lexus
      Lexus 7 November 2020 22: 38
      +7
      Uncle Kostya, in the harsh reality "dragons" swallow "children" and money. repeat

    3. Astra wild2
      Astra wild2 9 November 2020 09: 02
      +1
      Colleague Lexus, not everyone does this. So no generalization
  • Phil77
    Phil77 8 November 2020 08: 56
    +2
    Quote: Sea Cat
    lives somewhere.

    * somewhere far, very far
    it rains mushroom .... * wink
  • Catfish
    Catfish 8 November 2020 09: 17
    +3
    "- Do you have mushroom rains in Sweden?
    - No, we don't have mushroom rains in Sweden. "(C)
  • Lexus
    Lexus 8 November 2020 10: 19
    +4
    Remembering the morning after the "Autumn Marathon" holiday is evil trolling. winked


  • Phil77
    Phil77 8 November 2020 11: 39
    +2
    Quote: lexus
    Remember the morning after the holiday


    ?? wink
  • Lexus
    Lexus 8 November 2020 12: 03
    +4
    "Drink in moderation." Measure (Old Russian) - a unit of volume equal to 26,24 liters. wink

  • Phil77
    Phil77 8 November 2020 11: 46
    +2
    Quote: Sea Cat
    rains?

  • Catfish
    Catfish 8 November 2020 12: 09
    +3
    "The rain is knocking on the roofs,
    So that all the roofs groan,
    Everything about me is silent, everything is silent
    You will not hear me. "(C)
  • Lexus
    Lexus 8 November 2020 13: 20
    +4
    Stirlitz completed a small need in front of Mueller. Tom could only wipe himself off. (FROM)

  • Lexus
    Lexus 7 November 2020 22: 25
    +6
    Uncle Kostya hi ,
    in my memory, no one has ever described "stokers' affairs" so accurately. repeat
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 7 November 2020 19: 03
    +4
    And we have “Spartak” burned down. crying Awesome was the cinema!
    1. Korsar4
      Korsar4 7 November 2020 19: 32
      +3
      They say that Chaliapin and Sobinov also sang in Letnee.
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 7 November 2020 19: 51
        +2
        Well, I won't say that about Spartak, but for Peter, it was an iconic cinema.
    2. Catfish
      Catfish 8 November 2020 09: 39
      +3
      Spartak “burned down” so long ago that there were no more witnesses. request
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 8 November 2020 11: 26
        +2
        Professional burnout?
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 8 November 2020 11: 57
          +2
          This is how it turns out, not all professionals are lucky.
  • Marine engineer
    Marine engineer 7 November 2020 09: 18
    +5
    The Albanians fought with the Turks for decades, and the Serbs immediately broke down after the Kosovo battle.
    1. mr.ZinGer
      mr.ZinGer 7 November 2020 12: 13
      +4
      And the Montenegrins for several centuries, the question is in the economic benefits of continuing the war.
      The more white the country is, the longer it is ready to fight, ambitions outweigh the economic component.
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 7 November 2020 12: 34
        +6
        The poorer the country, the less willing the invaders themselves to make efforts.
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 7 November 2020 12: 39
          +5
          Hardly a direct relationship.
          And a rich country is easy enough to ruin.

          Afghanistan is a poor country. How much confusion lasts there.
          1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 7 November 2020 13: 01
            +5
            There are no direct dependencies
            1. Korsar4
              Korsar4 7 November 2020 13: 13
              +4
              The question is how to assess the wealth of a country? To what extent the strategic importance can be taken into account.

              And then, everything is so transient.
            2. Catfish
              Catfish 7 November 2020 19: 25
              +3
              There are no direct dependencies

              Happens: Charge - Projectile. soldier
              1. Lexus
                Lexus 7 November 2020 22: 49
                +5
                "Who is the last one and dad." (FROM) bully
      2. Marine engineer
        Marine engineer 7 November 2020 13: 13
        +4
        In the film “The great warrior of Albania Skanderberg there is an episode for me so strong in this work, the mother standing over the body of her son killed by the bloodlines says to her husband and her other son (brother of the deceased)“ What are you standing. Go, you know what to do, let the women in their house cry now. "
        Knowing that the last men of her family may die, she still sends them to take revenge and no snot "if only there was no war." It is impossible to live with shame in her world, it cannot be converted into something worthy of respect.
        I guess the difference in mentality
        , and not in the abundance of Albanians and Serbs (15th century) played a role in why the former fought, and the latter joined the winner, and besides
        the Serbian nobility did not find a figure equal to Skanderberg.
        1. Engineer
          Engineer 7 November 2020 14: 05
          +6
          This is very typical of tribal societies. Women often play a decisive role in matters of revenge by prompting and reproaching
          Saga of Nyala late 13th century
          Hrodnyu said:
          - I instruct you, Skarphedin, to avenge your brother, and I expect that although he was not born in marriage, you will do what you should and give it all your strength.
          Bergtora said:
          - You are strange people! You kill people when you have no reason for that, and now you will chew gum until the matter ends with nothing: after all, this news will immediately reach Höskuld, go to White Cape, he will offer you a virus and make up, and you will have to agree. If you want to act at all, then act now.
          Skarphedin said:
          - So the mother incites us with legal incitement
          1. Marine engineer
            Marine engineer 7 November 2020 14: 19
            +6
            "Women often play a decisive role in matters of revenge by incitement and reproach."

            I learned all this when I started to shave and go to dances.
          2. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 7 November 2020 18: 22
            +6
            Bravo, Denis!
            1. Engineer
              Engineer 7 November 2020 21: 49
              +3
              Completeness,
              Said banality. Just a striking example came to mind
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 7 November 2020 22: 00
                +4
                Revelations become commonplaces. Platitudes become commandments. The commandments enter the teachings as revelations.
      3. vladcub
        vladcub 7 November 2020 17: 55
        +5
        "the longer she is ready to fight" the rich man would prefer to bargain?
        Once upon a time in our childhood there was a cartoon: "how the king of peas fought with mushrooms." It seems that was the name? There some rich mushroom wanted to pay off the peas with money
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 7 November 2020 18: 42
          +4
          Where can we find the milk mushrooms at all ?!
    2. Trilobite Master
      Trilobite Master 7 November 2020 13: 45
      13
      Quote: Marine engineer
      The Albanians fought with the Turks for decades, and the Serbs immediately broke down after the Kosovo battle.

      An interesting observation. At the same time, as a result, the Serbs retained Orthodoxy, and the Albanians became Muslim. We can even say more than that - the Serbs have preserved their culture, and the Albanians have become Turkish.
      There is one more example of such a difference - Russia and Volga Bulgaria. Bulgars most actively resisted the Mongols, rebelled repeatedly, while Russia accepted dependence relatively easily. The bottom line is, on the one hand, Russia-Russia, which has preserved its national culture and language, and on the other, Turkic-speaking Tatarstan on the site of the Finno-Ugric Bulgaria, from whose original culture there are only the ruins of its ancient cities and what little is now being found by archaeologists.
      It's easy to die in battle with honor. He stood up, goggled his eyes, opened his mouth in a scream, and that was all - darkness, silence, no worries, no fear, nothing.
      Surviving, retreating and ultimately defeating is much more difficult. This is the hard work of many generations, the descendants of the survivors. And, by the way, we are precisely the product, the result of this labor of our ancestors.
      Thank you for bringing up an interesting idea with your observation. smile
      1. Marine engineer
        Marine engineer 7 November 2020 14: 05
        +4
        “Surviving, retreating and ultimately defeating is much more difficult. This is the hard work of many generations, the descendants of the survivors. And by the way, we are exactly the product, the result of this labor of our ancestors. "

        Here I agree. But this only concerns us.
        The Serbs did not defeat the Turks on their own, they received their independence from the wrong hands.
        1. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 7 November 2020 14: 15
          +8
          The Balkan Slavs gaining independence was only a matter of time - sooner or later, one way or another. It turned out as it happened. Russia only accelerated this process, resolving the urgent Turkic-Slavic conflicts in the Balkans by force of its own weapons, nothing more.
          1. Marine engineer
            Marine engineer 7 November 2020 14: 44
            +5
            The only question is how many Balkan Slavs, in percentage terms, would have retained Orthodoxy and their culture without this "acceleration" and when would the time have come for their independence without outside help.
            Could it all end with Bosnian Muslims (then the difference between Albanians and Serbs only in customs and language) or Armenian genocide.
            1. Trilobite Master
              Trilobite Master 7 November 2020 14: 53
              +7
              From the XNUMXth century onwards, Serbs, Bulgarians, Macedonians and others retained their national identity in all its manifestations, while being part of a strong and healthy state. By the end of the XIX century. Turkey was no longer the same - the collapse of the empire was a foregone conclusion and it collapsed. If the Balkan Slavs had not received independence from Russia, in twenty, thirty years they would have taken it themselves, I personally have no doubts about that - everything was heading towards this. And to believe that in thirty years there would have been changes that did not occur before in three hundred ... Well, this is absolutely fantastic.
              1. Marine engineer
                Marine engineer 7 November 2020 15: 29
                +4
                "You would have taken it yourself ..."

                Wouldn't take it, on the threshold was the 20th century with cannibalistic theories. Turkey in the 15th century needed an Orthodox tax-paying estate that paid for the Turkish conquests.
                Turkey of the 19th century did not need it in such an amount, and if it had not been for the lost war of 1878 and the obligations undertaken that had to be observed, the Balkan genocide would have preceded the Armenian one.
      2. Engineer
        Engineer 7 November 2020 14: 16
        +5
        in the place of Finno-Ugric Bulgaria

        Excuse me .. Where did this come from?
        It's easy to die in battle with honor. He stood up, goggled his eyes, opened his mouth in a scream, and that was all - darkness, silence, no worries, no fear, nothing.
        Surviving, retreating and ultimately defeating is much more difficult. This is the hard work of many generations, the descendants of the survivors. And, by the way, we are precisely the product, the result of this labor of our ancestors.

        My opinion is no. This is an excuse for those who did not want to fight.
        During the Mongol invasion, most of our ancestors did not want to bow down.
        "When we are gone, all yours will be."
        And glorified themselves for centuries

        In more ancient episodes, one can compare the Slavs and the Goths. The latter stubbornly refused to obey any conquerors. As a result, they left a dazzling mark on history, although their statehood was interrupted in all cases. The ancient Slavs often "showed conformism" as a result they received centuries of torment. At least with statehood they turned out to be much better in the long term.
        1. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 7 November 2020 14: 46
          +4
          Quote: Engineer
          Excuse me .. Where did this come from?

          How from where? I'm at a loss ... Are there any other options?
          Quote: Engineer
          During the Mongol invasion, most of our ancestors did not want to bow down.

          This is true. But this was during the period of the invasion, which lasted from 1237 to 1242. Most yes - resisted, although there were those who voluntarily submitted. But this is only five years and only during the period of the actual conquest. In the aftermath of the massive resistance to the power of the Mongols, and after the Horde, we do not see - only episodic scattered actions, which, moreover, were often caused by politics, that is, were the result of the struggle for power in the Mongol Empire itself or in the Horde, and not a consequence popular dissatisfaction with this power or the desire to gain independence.
          Quote: Engineer
          The ancient Slavs often "showed conformism" as a result they received centuries of torment. At least with statehood they turned out to be much better in the long term.

          This is what I’m talking about.
          Arouse a battle rage in oneself, when it is no longer scary not to kill, not to die, and honestly lay down your head in battle, interrupting the line of inheritance with your death, simultaneously getting rid of all the problems and hardships associated with the struggle for existence - it's easy. Over the years of evolution, man has learned to conquer animal instincts in himself. For example, I have repeatedly experienced a state when hatred or a sense of duty completely suppress fear, the instinct of self-preservation.
          It is much more difficult, having survived, to continue to live, work, give birth and raise children, earn their daily bread, persistently continuing and preserving their family, language, culture, and national memory.
          1. Engineer
            Engineer 7 November 2020 15: 09
            +5
            Are there any other options?

            the canonical version - Volga Bulgaria was founded by the eldest sons of Kubrat
            Suddenly, the Turks.
            It is much more difficult, having survived, to continue to live, work, give birth and raise children, earn their daily bread, persistently continuing and preserving their family, language, culture, and national memory.

            There are times when conformity is inappropriate
            The Vendians were long served by the Huns, who used them as befulci. Whenever the Huns did not oppose other peoples, they stood at the camp in formation, ready for battle, while the Vendians fought. If the Vendians won, then the Huns rushed forward for prey, but if the Vendians were defeated, the Huns turned them around and again forced them to join the battle. The Vends were called befulci Huns, because they twice launched an attack in battle formations, and thus covered the Huns 51. Every year the Huns winter with the Slavs, sleep with their wives and children, and in addition the Slavs pay tribute and endure many other hardships. The sons, born of the Huns to Slavic wives and daughters, once found this shameful humiliation intolerable, and therefore, as I said, they refused to obey their masters and revolted.

            :
            Sometimes, when Obrin went, he did not allow to harness a horse or an ox, but ordered to harness three, four or five wives to the cart and carry him - Obrin, - and so they tortured the dulebs
          2. Marine engineer
            Marine engineer 7 November 2020 16: 43
            +5
            "...- it's simple."

            Firstly, "this" is not easy, I remind you we are talking about people who fought the enemy face to face (hand-to-hand) otherwise in the 15th century it did not work.
            Secondly, blaming those who chose for themselves an armed struggle against the enemy that by doing so they wanted to get away from responsibility for raising children, for unwillingness to get their daily bread, to preserve their language and culture is somehow Jesuitical.
            In my opinion, you were "carried away" in polemics.
        2. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 7 November 2020 15: 09
          +6
          Yes, Denis, I want to warn you right away that even today, as a week ago, I will not have the opportunity to maintain a conversation for a long time, in about an hour and a half I will disappear from the radar and will appear only to read what others have written. smile
          This so that later there would be no suspicions of desertion from the battlefield, which you might have in connection with the incompleteness of our previous discussion - it matters to me. smile
          1. Engineer
            Engineer 7 November 2020 15: 11
            +5
            This so that later there would be no suspicions of desertion from the battlefield, which you might have in connection with the incompleteness of our previous discussion - it matters to me.

            And I think what happened to our illustrious network fighter)
            1. Trilobite Master
              Trilobite Master 7 November 2020 15: 27
              +8
              It was all the more offensive to end the discussion because the topic was interesting and familiar to me. smile
              However, there is a silver lining: Samsonov did not receive "good press". smile
              And about the fact that
              Quote: Engineer
              There are times when conformity is inappropriate

              here everyone can choose for himself. You can always stand tall and do what you think is necessary, even if you know that this will be the last thing you do at all. The question is: do you have the right to make such non-conformist decisions for others?
              However, this way we will go into a plane far from history.
              My opinion can be briefly formulated as follows: the Slavs, due to their origin "at the crossroads of worlds" in a kaleidoscope of peoples and cultures, could not help developing such qualities as patience and tolerance. It was these qualities that allowed us to survive, spread and create what they created on a global scale of planetary history.
              A little poetical, a little pretentious, but I think you understand me. Do not find fault with only individual words and expressions. smile
              1. Engineer
                Engineer 7 November 2020 15: 37
                +5
                Moreover, it was a shame to end the discussion, because the topic is interesting and familiar to me.

                No one doubts here
                The question is: do you have the right to make such non-conformist decisions for others?

                In 376, the pathetic fugitives from the Huns crossed the Roman limes. Their weapons were taken away, food was detained, the stragglers were turned into slavery.
                In 377, the nonconformists revolted. Their leaders never asked if they had the right to make decisions for others.
                Then there was Adrianople

                the Slavs, due to their origin "at the crossroads of worlds" in a kaleidoscope of peoples and cultures, could not help developing such qualities as patience and tolerance

                I don't particularly like the concept of national character
                A little poetical, a little pretentious, but I think you understand me. Do not find fault with only individual words and expressions.

                God forbid. But something today the late Lev Nikolaevich moved into you)
                With history, you cannot, like a lady in a dance, go back a couple of steps and then get back together.
                Sorry for being boring)
                If there is no duel, then just have a good weekend
                1. Trilobite Master
                  Trilobite Master 7 November 2020 16: 04
                  +7
                  Quote: Engineer
                  I don't particularly like the concept of national character

                  So do I. It is my deep conviction that the peculiarities inherent in each nation, distinguishing one nation from another, arise exclusively due to objective reasons, namely, conditions (primarily climatic, but also geopolitical ones must also be taken into account) in which from or from another nation or ethnos exists. These conditions form what is commonly called "national mentality", although for me personally this concept is very vague. Conditions change - everything changes, faster or slower, but changes. And on genetics, that is, what some call "at the genetic level" these changes are not reflected in any way, or rather they are reflected oh-oh-very slowly, so much so that these changes can have (and have) significance for only anthropology, but in no way not for history.
                  Tolerance of the Slavs is their weapon, both offensive and defensive, received by them as a result of the objective conditions in which their ethnogenesis took place, a weapon developed and honed in full accordance with Darwin's theory, although it is somewhat different.
                  Have a great weekend too. smile hi
                  Moving into the category of readers. smile
      3. Korsar4
        Korsar4 7 November 2020 17: 00
        +6
        I thought about your words. It is probably important that there is a diversity of the gene pool. Someone to create, someone to rule, someone to take a weapon, someone to trade. Who to become a spiritual leader.

        And Metropolitan Alexy and Ivan Kalita remain in the memory. Even if their real deeds are intertwined with legends.
    3. vladcub
      vladcub 7 November 2020 19: 34
      +4
      "there were few violent," as Vladimir Vysotsky sang. In general, the presence of bright personalities is of great importance, the Albanians were lucky that they had such a leader as Skanderberg, but the Serbs did not have this, but there was Byaka Brankovic
  • Undecim
    Undecim 7 November 2020 09: 41
    +7
    In the Turkish army, George immediately attracted attention with his bravery and even earned the honorary nickname Iskander Bey (given in honor of Alexander the Great). European authors have changed this nickname: they got something very "Nordic" by ear - Skanderberg.
    Sorry, Valery, but here you have an inaccuracy - not Skanderberg, but Skanderbeg (in Albanian - Skënderbej, in English - Skanderbeg).
  • Jünger
    Jünger 7 November 2020 11: 23
    +2
    Superman is some kind of Skanderbeg.
    The Albanians finally caved in under the Turetch land, and the Christian is honored. Strange people, they should be ashamed.
    1. Korsar4
      Korsar4 7 November 2020 11: 38
      +5
      Bright personalities leave a mark.
      And then the rumor turns into a legend.

      What Albanians in history come to mind?
      1. Jünger
        Jünger 7 November 2020 12: 03
        +3
        Enver Hoxha is only familiar to me.
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 7 November 2020 12: 06
          +4
          Personal meetings come to the fore.
      2. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 7 November 2020 13: 17
        +4
        Quote: Korsar4
        What Albanians in history come to mind?
        I remember from the history only Ismail Kemali Vlor, the leader of the Albanian national movement, the founder and head of state of Albania and Enver Hoxha. In Soviet times, I read only one book about Albania, somewhere in the early 60s, about Albanian partisans. At that time, under Nikita Khrushchev, there was a ban on literature about Albania, and then nothing appeared. Moreover, the old military men told how they served while in Albania.
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 7 November 2020 13: 31
          +4
          When there were disturbances, many of them ended up with us.
          And so - in all parts of the world you will not meet graduates of our universities.
          1. tihonmarine
            tihonmarine 7 November 2020 13: 46
            +4
            Quote: Korsar4
            And so - in all parts of the world you will not meet graduates of our universities.

            This is for sure, met all over the world, especially in Africa and the Middle East.
            I had to meet a lot with Albanian sailors, normal men and Moremans.
      3. Phil77
        Phil77 7 November 2020 17: 39
        +3
        Quote: Korsar4

        What Albanians in history come to mind?

        Good evening, what about this nice guy?

        He has Albanian roots.
        1. Phil77
          Phil77 7 November 2020 17: 42
          +3
          Quote: Phil77
          He has Albanian roots.

          And also mother Teresa and Inva Mula. The opera singer who starred in Besson's * Fifth Element *. Remember the singer with the blue face? wink
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 7 November 2020 18: 14
            +3
            "The Fifth Element" - when Mila Jovovich flew between floors, bandaged with bandages?
            1. Phil77
              Phil77 7 November 2020 18: 26
              +3
              Quote: Korsar4
              flying between floors, bandaged with bandages?

              Yea Yea! yes
        2. Korsar4
          Korsar4 7 November 2020 18: 13
          +3
          I don’t know. Though not in makeup. Who is it?
          1. Phil77
            Phil77 7 November 2020 18: 25
            +2
            Quote: Korsar4
            I don’t know. Though not in makeup. Who is it?

            Come on! I don't believe it! James Belushi from Hollywood. * K-9 *, a film about a police dog. * Curly Sue *.
            1. Korsar4
              Korsar4 7 November 2020 18: 26
              +3
              I have a complete failure with foreign films.
              The site sometimes gives hints. I use it.
              1. Phil77
                Phil77 7 November 2020 18: 29
                +5
                Quote: Korsar4
                tips

    2. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 7 November 2020 12: 33
      +4
      Quote: Junger
      The Albanians ultimately caved in under the Turetch land, and the Christian is honored. Strange people

      And what could Albania do, where 200 people lived, against the Ottoman Empire of 000 people, that is, 11 times less than Turkey. Turkey's army had more than the entire population of Albania, and the wars that the Albanians had to wage devastated the male population. And they are rightfully proud of their hero Skanderbeg, no matter what faith he was, he was just an Albanian, the son of his nation.
      1. Jünger
        Jünger 7 November 2020 12: 58
        +5
        The Albanians could do one very simple thing - remain Christians, like the Bulgarians, for example, or most of the Serbs.
        And they are now mostly Muslim, and the main hero of the nation is a Christian. There is an oddity, ambivalence and recognition of one's own weakness in this.
        Well, I think so. And somehow I do not remember analogies in the world.
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 7 November 2020 13: 04
          +2
          Kosovars, Bosnians, Nagaybaks and many others.
          1. Doliva63
            Doliva63 7 November 2020 18: 43
            +3
            Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kosovars, Bosnians, Nagaybaks and many others.

            I immediately remembered Nagaybak Fershampenoise - did Muslims also live there? laughing
        2. Marine engineer
          Marine engineer 7 November 2020 13: 33
          +4
          "And they are mostly Muslims now, ........"

          The Albanians of the Skanderberg era and those of today are different people.
          1. Jünger
            Jünger 7 November 2020 14: 52
            +1
            In general, all people are different, the same do not exist.
            Does your thought have some deep meaning? If yes, then explain it))
            1. Marine engineer
              Marine engineer 7 November 2020 15: 44
              +4
              Albanians of Skanderberg would cut the modern ones, as apostates, if they could meet))
              1. Jünger
                Jünger 7 November 2020 16: 14
                +2
                That's the point, I agree. Stabbed in the throat, and the bodies in the well laughing
                1. Marine engineer
                  Marine engineer 7 November 2020 17: 04
                  +3
                  Why should the traitors of the faith of the fathers clog the wells, pushed a limp body off the cliff and there is no problem))
              2. Sergey Oreshin
                Sergey Oreshin 7 November 2020 23: 44
                0
                Wouldn't cut it.
                For them, religion is secondary, ethnicity is primary, or rather, not so much ethnicity as tribal origin (what kind of clan are you from).
                In general, that Christianity was not too deeply rooted in them, that Islam with its own, so to speak, "Albanian specificity."
                In modern Albania, mixed marriages, Muslim-Orthodox, Catholic-Orthodox, etc. are not uncommon.
            2. Astra wild2
              Astra wild2 7 November 2020 17: 28
              +2
              I thought there were no highwaymen among us.
              Kidding
      2. mr.ZinGer
        mr.ZinGer 8 November 2020 01: 17
        +4
        When I was in Montenegro, a local guide told me that during the Turkish expansion, the Muslimization of Montenegrins began, due to various preferences, and some clans decided to convert to Islam. After that, at a general meeting, it was decided to kill all the renegades.
        True, I did not name dates, did not name numbers.
        1. Marine engineer
          Marine engineer 8 November 2020 07: 42
          0
          "It was decided to kill all the renegades"
          And the one who killed the renegade did not bear any responsibility to the family of the killed. I read about it, though for a long time.
        2. Marine engineer
          Marine engineer 8 November 2020 08: 35
          0
          "... it was decided to kill all the renegades."

          And the one who killed the renegade did not bear any responsibility to the family of the killed.
    3. Sergey Oreshin
      Sergey Oreshin 7 November 2020 23: 35
      +1
      Nothing superhuman, just a good commander, who, however, was unable to change the objective course of history.
      As for the Albanians, they have a very peculiar Islam in fact. In addition, not all Albanians are Muslims, there are Catholics, Orthodox Christians, and simply atheists.
      They themselves say that ethnicity is always primary for them, and only then - religion. So it is important for them that Skanderbeg was an Albanian and fought for Albania, and not that he was a Christian.
  • tihonmarine
    tihonmarine 7 November 2020 12: 19
    +4
    A very interesting and informative article about little-known facts of history. We know especially little about the history of Albania. Thank you, we look forward to continuing.
  • Catfish
    Catfish 7 November 2020 13: 34
    +6
    I would never have thought that the story of the national hero of Albania, from a film watched in distant childhood, would receive such an interesting continuation. For me it is exactly like meeting childhood.
    Valery, thank you very much! good smile
    1. Astra wild2
      Astra wild2 7 November 2020 17: 22
      +2
      Good afternoon Konstantin, I have never watched Skanderbeg. Now I will look on YouTube. In Vick I will look for materials. True, Viktor Nikolaevich looks negatively at the Russian version of Vika
  • ZEMCH
    ZEMCH 7 November 2020 14: 42
    +2
    Thanks for the article, the real story is always more interesting than the filmed series! good
    The radicalization of Albania really began with Khrushchev, he did a lot!
  • iskanderzp
    iskanderzp 7 November 2020 14: 58
    +1
    Yes, indeed, a legendary personality. But here's the paradox: everyone knows his contemporary Tepes, and Skanderbeg is practically unknown to the average man. Alas, cruelty is much more viable in the memory of people than valor. (((
    Valery! Thanks for the interesting cycle. Read voraciously!)
  • Yuriy71
    Yuriy71 7 November 2020 15: 11
    +3
    How changeable history is! You are amazing! How could a Christian country, the intercessor of Christians, degenerate into SUCH !!!?
  • bandabas
    bandabas 7 November 2020 15: 31
    +1
    Nice to read. A little the other way. A century later, Ivan the Terrible was no match for his "partners" in the West, or for these Turks and "Slavs". In the sense of cruelty.
  • Volzhanin64
    Volzhanin64 7 November 2020 15: 34
    +2
    Many thanks to the author.
    A very informative and easy to read article. Looking forward to new articles from the author
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 7 November 2020 17: 16
    +1
    Valery, thank you very much. As always, everything is bright and the illustrations were chosen very well
  • vladcub
    vladcub 7 November 2020 17: 39
    +4
    Comrades, happy October holiday
  • faterdom
    faterdom 7 November 2020 17: 46
    +2
    Yes, such is the "Anabasis" performed by an Albanian.
    It is a pity, in the historical sense, this did not change anything, and Constantinople did not find such a hero.
  • vladcub
    vladcub 7 November 2020 18: 30
    +2
    Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Evening, good namesake!
    Yesterday and the day before yesterday it was sour and sick!

    Just like after a good hangout, the feeling that the cats have urinated. I urgently need sauerkraut or good beer.
    The only problem is that nowhere on the market can you buy good cabbage, as before, according to grandmother's recipes, and not "Stakhanov's" early ripening
  • Sergey Oreshin
    Sergey Oreshin 7 November 2020 23: 24
    0
    Quote: Marine Engineer
    and the Serbs immediately broke down after the Kosovo battle.

    This is not true. Resistance on Serbian lands continued after the Battle of Kosovo, and the Haiduks there generally fought partisans continuously until the 19th century.
    1. Marine engineer
      Marine engineer 8 November 2020 07: 55
      0
      Haiduki are not resistance.
      1. Sergey Oreshin
        Sergey Oreshin 8 November 2020 10: 08
        +1
        There were not only gadgets there.
        In addition, many Serbs fled to the North (the so-called "Great Serbian Exodus"), first to the lands of the Hungarian Kingdom, where they also fought against the Turks in the ranks of the Hungarian troops, and then to the Habsburg lands (modern Vojvodina and some other lands) , where they were included in the number of "granichar" who served on the Military Border and participated in all wars with the Turks
  • Sergey Oreshin
    Sergey Oreshin 7 November 2020 23: 27
    0
    Quote: Marine Engineer
    The Serbs did not defeat the Turks on their own, they received their independence from the wrong hands.

    They carried out the first and second Serbian uprisings themselves. Russia's assistance was rather diplomatic, and concerned the recognition of the autonomy of the Serbian principality by the Turks, the phased withdrawal of Turkish troops from Serbian fortresses, etc.
    1. Marine engineer
      Marine engineer 8 November 2020 08: 21
      0
      Conduct an uprising, win, and consolidate the results of victory diplomatically so that the results of victory cannot be disputed by anyone.
      Serbia of the 19th century was capable of only the first.
  • Sergey Oreshin
    Sergey Oreshin 7 November 2020 23: 29
    0
    Quote: Marine Engineer
    the Balkan genocide would have preceded the Armenian one.

    They would not have enough strength to genocide all the Balkan Christians. There, too, not whipping boys lived, but people who were quite accustomed to weapons.
    Just if it were not for the Russian Empire - help (essno, not disinterested) the Slavs would have been provided by other European countries wishing to share the legacy of the "sick man of Europe"
    1. Marine engineer
      Marine engineer 8 November 2020 08: 06
      0
      It was enough for the Armenians and it was in the conditions of war.
      In peacetime, the "resources" could not be scattered and the "sick man of Europe" would have done everything quickly, turning the Balkan Slavs in the Balkans into nat. minorities.
      1. Sergey Oreshin
        Sergey Oreshin 8 November 2020 10: 11
        +1
        The Slavs were not whipping boys at all, and the Turks would have received massive resistance.
        Let us recall Greece, which revolted in 1821. What did the Turks manage to slaughter the Greeks and crush the uprising? No!
        So it would be with the Slavs. And if not for Russia, then other European powers seeking to seize the lands of the "sick man of Europe" would have come to the Balkans and would have driven the Turks out of there.
        After the defeat at Vienna in 1683, it was actually a matter of time before the Turks were driven out of the Balkans.
        1. Marine engineer
          Marine engineer 8 November 2020 12: 12
          0
          Greece revolted in 1821 and received autonomy only in 1829 according to the Treaty of Adrionol, which ended the Russian-Turkish war of 1828-1829.
          And before this Russian campaign in the Balkans, there was also the Battle of Navarino where the Turkish fleet was destroyed.
          Turkey had to yield.
          Conclusion: Without third party intervention, Greece was doomed.
        2. Marine engineer
          Marine engineer 8 November 2020 12: 21
          0
          ".... the powers of Europe, striving to seize the lands of the" sick man of Europe "would come to the Balkans and drive the Turks out of there."

          Which powers in the second half of the 19th century sought to take possession of the lands of the "sick person ......" please name. Not to offer Austria-Hungary.
        3. Marine engineer
          Marine engineer 8 November 2020 12: 33
          +1
          "The Slavs were not whipping boys at all, and the Turks would have received massive resistance."

          For 400 years there was no "massive resistance" and I simply cannot imagine where it came from.
          Some speeches, I admit, but against the state machine, albeit a Turkish one, they were doomed without outside interference.
  • Sergey Oreshin
    Sergey Oreshin 7 November 2020 23: 41
    +1
    Quote: Junger
    And somehow I do not remember analogies in the world.

    Yes, there are actually a lot of them))
    Alexander the Great at least. A pagan who is revered and proud of in Orthodox Greece.
    The pagans Caesar and Augustus were revered (and still respect) in Catholic Italy.
    In Shiite Iran, the Zoroastrian kings-conquerors are honored.
    Well, etc.
  • Sergey Oreshin
    Sergey Oreshin 7 November 2020 23: 45
    0
    Quote: iskanderzp
    everyone knows his contemporary Tepes

    Thanks to Bram Stoker.
    If he had an idea to make his main character an Albanian - and voila, no one would have known who Vlad Dracula is
  • Sergey Oreshin
    Sergey Oreshin 7 November 2020 23: 50
    +1
    Quote: Yuriy71
    How changeable history is! You are amazing! How could a Christian country, the intercessor of Christians, degenerate into SUCH !!!?

    Let's just say, to call the Albanians 15th century. "the intercessors of Christians" is somewhat exaggerated.
    Until then, for centuries, quite enthusiastically fought against the same Serbs and Greeks.
    The clan leaders defended their interests. In the end, the Turks understood this, and were able to integrate quite well the Albanian clans (and their leaders) into the governing system of their Empire.
    When in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. this model gave a systemic failure - the Albanian clans, without hesitation, sent the Osmays to hell and left the "Turkish harbor" without much regret
  • vladcub
    vladcub 8 November 2020 07: 59
    +3
    What's the second lockdown in the History section?
  • Sergey Oreshin
    Sergey Oreshin 8 November 2020 17: 52
    0
    Quote: Marine Engineer
    Which powers in the second half of the 19th century sought to take possession of the lands of the "sick person ......" name please.

    Please.
    Great Britain (overcame Cyprus and Egypt from Turkey), France (overcame Algeria and Tunisia). They, together with the Russians at Navarin, destroyed the Turkish fleet.
    It is strange why "not to offer Austria-Hungary", if the same Austrians wrested Transylvania, Dalmatia, Illyria from the Turks, and then also took Bosnia and Herzegovina.
    So the Turks from the Balkans would have been thrown out anyway
    1. Marine engineer
      Marine engineer 8 November 2020 21: 01
      +1
      We talked about the Balkans and the Balkan Slavs.
      Therefore, I will clarify the question "What powers in the second half of the 19th century sought to seize the lands of the" sick person ... "in the Balkans, and bring independence to the Balkan Slavs (Serbs, Bulgarians), name please."
      Why not offer Austria-Hungary?
      Hint in the question "in the second half of the 19th century".
      1. Sergey Oreshin
        Sergey Oreshin 9 November 2020 00: 26
        -1
        Yes, in fact, everyone went there in one way or another and tried to establish their influence in the Balkans and in the Balkan countries (Greece, Romania, Bulgaria, etc.). And Great Britain, and Germany, and France, and the same Austria-Hungary.
        Every Balkan country has been a field of great power rivalry.
        Turkey, on the other hand, had no chance of keeping the Balkans in the long run at all.
        A sick tidbit for the great powers
  • zoranovichic
    zoranovichic 9 November 2020 21: 39
    0
    Autor se bavi with propaganda and historical falsification, foreign chitsama ... otats, јovan and m Сka beat su Srbi ... Skenderbeg is bio SRBIN, not Albanats, tada Albaniјa did not stand ... We are going to the Srbskoe land, the Muslim dzhava Sqepetar Shiptar Alban-i -a is directed ...
  • Icelord
    Icelord 14 November 2020 13: 44
    0
    Bravo! very well written. Thank you
  • Zzzz
    Zzzz 19 November 2020 20: 44
    0
    Heaped up ...
    Albanians call it Skaderbeu. No Skanderbergs of yours ...
    There is the Internet, you can talk about everything ...