Military Review

Britain offers Ukraine boats with Norwegian missiles

120
Britain offers Ukraine boats with Norwegian missiles

Probable variant of the British project of boats for the Navy


The missile boats, which Britain intends to build for Ukraine, are proposed to be equipped with Norwegian Naval Strike Missile (NSM) anti-ship missiles, and not Ukrainian anti-ship missiles "Neptune". This is reported by the Odessa edition "Dumskaya" with reference to its own sources in the Ukrainian Navy.

According to the newspaper, the British company BMT agreed to finalize the proposed project of missile boats, taking into account the wishes of the command of the Ukrainian Navy. In particular, it is reported that the engine will be transferred in the new project. In addition, it is proposed to install the Norwegian NSM anti-ship missiles on the boat, which are in service with the US Navy, Great Britain and a number of NATO countries.

At the same time, it is argued that the British are ready to deliver the first boat to the Ukrainian Navy in a year after the signing of the contract. At the same time, Ukrainian projects that exist only on paper will take a very long preparation time before construction, subject to adequate funding. In addition, there is still no naval version of the Neptune anti-ship missile system.

(...) it takes at least 5 years to create the first boat according to a domestic project: eight months for design, about two years for the development of drawings and technical documentation, and another two years for implementation in metal. And this is subject to stable funding. And as shown by many years история with the launch of the rocket "Lani", there will be no money

- writes the edition.

At the same time, London offers Kiev to build eight boats with funds allocated as a loan for 10 years. In addition, the localization of production is envisaged in Ukraine.

The NSM anti-ship missile was developed by the Norwegian group Kongsberg, produced in the United States as part of a joint venture with Raytheon. A two-stage subsonic anti-ship missile with a range of 185 km. Length - 4 m, weight with container - 710 kg, warhead weight - 120 kg.
Photos used:
https://dumskaya.net/
120 comments
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  1. credo
    credo 5 November 2020 14: 45
    +3
    If the boats will be built by the British, then what is the localization of the production of these boats in Ukraine?
    Maybe they meant that the installation of the national flag of the aborigines would be trusted by the aborigines themselves?
    The cunning English know how to trick the "most cunning on earth" Ukrainians.
    1. Igor Berg
      Igor Berg 5 November 2020 14: 53
      +9
      then what is the localization of the production of these boats in Ukraine?

      localization is that part of it is being built in Britain, part in Ukraine, it was originally like 4x4
      1. credo
        credo 5 November 2020 14: 58
        -1
        Quote: Igor Berg
        then what is the localization of the production of these boats in Ukraine?

        localization is that part of it is being built in Britain, part in Ukraine, it was originally like 4x4

        In the early articles, something like that really flashed, but apparently the Europeans looked at the actions of the Constitutional Court and the general discord in Ukraine and decided not to risk money and reputation. There is no faith in the "broad" Ukrainians.
      2. Avior
        Avior 5 November 2020 17: 31
        +5
        2x6, 6 will be built in Ukraine.
    2. Borik
      Borik 5 November 2020 14: 56
      0
      If the boats will be built by the British, then what is the localization of the production of these boats in Ukraine?


      So if the Ukrainians suddenly want not 8 but 9 boards, then the latter may start to build-saw somewhere in their shipyard.
    3. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 5 November 2020 16: 29
      -2
      Quote: credo
      The cunning English know how to trick the "most cunning on earth" Ukrainians.

      They consider themselves cunning, but Britain was born when they weren't even in diapers. But the most interesting thing is that the Britons will foist these boats on Svidomo, and even rip off "as sticky".
      1. St Petrov
        St Petrov 5 November 2020 16: 42
        +5
        shaved Svidomo thrust these boats, and even rip off "as sticky."


        you can deceive. But the most gorgeous and filigree action is when they look into your eyes for this with devotion, shouting about independence and partnership

        The subtle work of the Anglo-Saxons with the logic of the ragul. This is what you need to learn, looking at these rivals
    4. Clear
      Clear 5 November 2020 20: 49
      +6
      Quote: credo
      If the boats will be built by the British, then what is the localization of the production of these boats in Ukraine?
      Maybe they meant that the installation of the national flag of the aborigines would be trusted by the aborigines themselves?
      The cunning English know how to trick the "most cunning on earth" Ukrainians.

      What beautiful boats in the photo. It's even a pity to drown crying
      1. credo
        credo 5 November 2020 21: 01
        +1
        Quote: Clear
        Quote: credo
        If the boats will be built by the British, then what is the localization of the production of these boats in Ukraine?
        Maybe they meant that the installation of the national flag of the aborigines would be trusted by the aborigines themselves?
        The cunning English know how to trick the "most cunning on earth" Ukrainians.

        What beautiful boats in the photo. It's even a pity to drown crying

        Why drown, if you can, like last time, in the Kerch Strait, board and drive them to your harbor, and there, even for scrap metal, even at the trophy display.
        1. Clear
          Clear 5 November 2020 21: 28
          +4
          Quote: credo
          Quote: Clear
          Quote: credo
          If the boats will be built by the British, then what is the localization of the production of these boats in Ukraine?
          Maybe they meant that the installation of the national flag of the aborigines would be trusted by the aborigines themselves?
          The cunning English know how to trick the "most cunning on earth" Ukrainians.

          What beautiful boats in the photo. It's even a pity to drown crying

          Why drown, if you can, like last time, in the Kerch Strait, board and drive them to your harbor, and there, even for scrap metal, even at the trophy display.

          Only give the toilets immediately, in front of witnesses.
    5. skif8013
      skif8013 5 November 2020 23: 19
      +1
      Quote: credo
      If the boats will be built by the British, then what is the localization of the production of these boats in Ukraine?
      Maybe they meant that the installation of the national flag of the aborigines would be trusted by the aborigines themselves?
      The cunning English know how to trick the "most cunning on earth" Ukrainians.

      Localization will consist in the installation of latrines with secret keys, so that ours are not removed during capture)
    6. Prisoner
      Prisoner 6 November 2020 17: 43
      0
      winked They will install their own toilet bowls. The English will resist, and they will install their own. And we will get a joint NATO-Ukrainian product. hi
  2. maxim1987
    maxim1987 5 November 2020 14: 49
    0
    At the same time, London offers Kiev to build eight boats with funds allocated as a loan for 10 years.

    but at first the conversation was about: 2 boats in Britain, and the rest in Ukraine will build No.
    1. VORON538
      VORON538 5 November 2020 14: 52
      +1
      The question now stands like this: Ukraine will buy both boats and missiles
      And their production ... and why is it in Ukraine? Ukrainian migrant workers are expected in Europe, the Ukrainian industry is not.
      1. Orange bigg
        Orange bigg 5 November 2020 15: 06
        +1
        Does Ukraine have its own production? Under the Soviet Union, aircraft-carrying cruisers were built in Nikolaev. Now they cannot build a boat without outside help. The Neptune PKR was never brought to mind, although there were even blueprints for this rocket.
        1. RUSS
          RUSS 5 November 2020 19: 46
          +2
          Quote: OrangeBigg
          Does Ukraine have its own production? Under the Soviet Union, aircraft-carrying cruisers were built in Nikolaev, but now they cannot build a boat without outside help.

          Patrol boats of project 03160 or "Raptor" - a series of Russian high-speed patrol boats of the coastal zone. The engine compartment is located in the aft part of the vessel, according to the manufacturer, it is equipped with two American turbodiesels CATERPILLAR C18 ACERT E-rating (1150 hp at 2300 rpm, working volume 18,1 liters, configuration of the cylinder block - L6), then there is a clutch mechanism, the so-called clutch, followed by a shaft line for jet English-made propellers Rolls-Royce Kamewa 36A3 HS.
          1. Victorio
            Victorio 6 November 2020 11: 51
            +1
            Quote: RUSS
            CATERPILLAR C18 ACERT E-rating

            ===
            they also install Korean diesels
      2. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 5 November 2020 16: 31
        -1
        Quote: VORON538
        Ukrainian migrant workers are expected in Europe, the Ukrainian industry is not.

        There is a double benefit, and the boats will be caught and guest workers will be received instead of the Romanians.
        1. Clear
          Clear 5 November 2020 21: 31
          +2
          Quote: tihonmarine
          Quote: VORON538
          Ukrainian migrant workers are expected in Europe, the Ukrainian industry is not.

          There is a double benefit, and the boats will be caught and guest workers will be received instead of the Romanians.

          Minus players disagree with you lol
          1. stalkerwalker
            stalkerwalker 5 November 2020 21: 35
            +2
            Quote: Clear
            Minus players disagree with you

            Madame ...
            hi
            You know that on VO they are minus not for opinion, but for position.
            laughing
            1. Clear
              Clear 5 November 2020 21: 53
              +4
              Quote: stalkerwalker
              Quote: Clear
              Minus players disagree with you

              Madame ...
              hi
              You know that on VO they are minus not for opinion, but for position.
              laughing

              hi I remember, Ilyich, how you imprudently gave food and added pluses to the "positioners" in the topic about "the Soviet past ...". it happens yes
              1. stalkerwalker
                stalkerwalker 5 November 2020 22: 03
                0
                Quote: Clear
                I remember, Ilyich, how you imprudently gave food and added pluses to the "positioners" in the topic about "the Soviet past ...". it happens

                I was not so surprised. Cons.
                But the lack of full-fledged arguments from the dissenters fully confirmed my thesis.
                hi
                1. Clear
                  Clear 5 November 2020 22: 14
                  +4
                  Quote: stalkerwalker
                  But the lack of full-fledged arguments from the dissenters fully confirmed my thesis.

                  As a rule, full-fledged arguments are given at a round table, looking the opponent in the eye.
                  1. stalkerwalker
                    stalkerwalker 5 November 2020 22: 16
                    +2
                    Quote: Clear
                    As a rule, full-fledged arguments are given at a round table, looking the opponent in the eye.

                    Not in the eyebrow, but in the eye ...
                    laughing
                    1. Ruslan67
                      Ruslan67 6 November 2020 02: 54
                      +3
                      Quote: stalkerwalker
                      As a rule, full-fledged arguments are given at a round table, looking the opponent in the eye.

                      Quote: stalkerwalker
                      Not in the eyebrow, but in the eye ...

                      yes It happens in the eye sad
                      1. Clear
                        Clear 6 November 2020 08: 05
                        +5
                        Quote: Ruslan67
                        Quote: stalkerwalker
                        As a rule, full-fledged arguments are given at a round table, looking the opponent in the eye.

                        Quote: stalkerwalker
                        Not in the eyebrow, but in the eye ...

                        yes It happens in the eye sad

                        If your opponent has one eye, then logically, you "talked" with him, before the start of the debate winked
    2. Avior
      Avior 5 November 2020 17: 30
      +3
      And there is.
      The British give money for the construction.
    3. Prisoner
      Prisoner 6 November 2020 17: 45
      0
      Today, in Ukraine, only rafts can be built, and even those made of plastic bottles.
  3. Dmitry Makarov
    Dmitry Makarov 5 November 2020 14: 53
    -2
    As the Master said, so it will be. Nobody asks the Ukrainians, they are simply informed.
    And the Norwegian missile is of course rather weak, subsonic and only hits 180 km. Russia had missiles with such characteristics in the 60s of the last century, now everything is super and hyper-sonic, and the battle range is measured in thousands of kilometers. In general, in which case, it will be just beating the baby.
    1. rudolff
      rudolff 5 November 2020 16: 06
      +4
      With such characteristics, the rocket, namely the Kh-35 / Uranus, was put into service in the early 2000s and became the main caliber of the 80s corvettes.
    2. t-12
      t-12 5 November 2020 16: 17
      +2
      and hits only 180 km.
      Isn't that enough for the Black Sea?
      1. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 5 November 2020 16: 36
        -4
        Quote: t-12
        Isn't that enough for the Black Sea?

        You still need to go to the Black Sea.
        1. t-12
          t-12 5 November 2020 16: 45
          0
          On a good level, boats (at least 3 out of 8) should be at sea on a permanent basis, even in peacetime. However, I am not a navy man.
          1. tihonmarine
            tihonmarine 5 November 2020 17: 14
            -2
            Quote: t-12
            On a good level, boats (at least 3 out of 8) should be at sea on a permanent basis, even in peacetime.

            It's scary to go out.
    3. Niel-le-Calais
      Niel-le-Calais 5 November 2020 23: 06
      0
      Quote: Dmitry Makarov
      Russia had missiles with such characteristics in the 60s of the last century, now everything is super and hyper-sonic, and the battle range is measured in thousands of kilometers

      Wow..
      no one could even think of such progress. The entire World Cup of the Russian Federation sits on hypersound ..
      It is strange that there is no bravura news.
  4. Crimean partisan 1974
    Crimean partisan 1974 5 November 2020 14: 55
    -7
    rocket sucks .... another question for the Saxons. Norwegians have connected ... to see for the debts they want to chop off the southern zemlitsa .... credible ... just now there is a trick ... unpleasant news for the Norwegians ... in 404 there are laws, but they are not ... so the Norwegians .. do not get into a mess ... but although you get there .. you don't have enough breaks ... there will be more
    1. nobody75
      nobody75 5 November 2020 15: 15
      14
      The NSM missile has a matrix IR seeker with target recognition by IR signature, an electronic warfare station and a low-altitude flight profile at a speed of 0,95M. Having a reconnaissance drone, you can program a missile to hit a specific target. Why sucks?
      With respect.
      1. Boris Chernikov
        Boris Chernikov 5 November 2020 15: 42
        -5
        in the Ukrainian version, in any case, it sucks .. suppose they roll out all 8 boats .. felnut .. drown .. well, let 5-6 FSB patrol boats .. what's next? And then there will be a massacre of Ukrainian troops .. and it will be significant to kill and bloody and everyone, who can be reached ..

        This is not to mention the fact that by the time all boats are ready for combat, the Black Sea Fleet will have a couple of times more ships ..
        1. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 5 November 2020 16: 39
          -1
          Quote: Boris Chernikov
          suppose they will roll out all 8 boats .. fire .. drown .. well, let them 5-6 patrol boats of the FSB.

          Well, first you need to "roll out" these boats from the base so that they fire. And to shoot you need to be born "kamikaze" and not a Sumerian.
          1. Boris Chernikov
            Boris Chernikov 5 November 2020 17: 17
            0
            and this, too, they need suicide bombers, although they are growing them on the sly
      2. Runway
        Runway 5 November 2020 16: 38
        +1
        “Laughter from the audience” is also not clear. If the Brits "promise and marry", Ukraine will receive 8 boats x 8 pcr (with the ability to beat a stationary object on land). 64 rockets. On par with our 7 RTOs + 1 corvette on the Black Sea Fleet (Mosquitoes / Uraniums / Caliber / Malachites).
        16 pkr on four arks (Exocet / Termite) - Bulgaria.
        24 PKR on three steamers and three boats (Exocet and Termit) - Romania.
        In total - 18 targets for the anti-ship missiles of our glorious Black Sea Fleet.
        1. t-12
          t-12 5 November 2020 16: 50
          +2
          The Turkish fleet also needs to be added. In case of war, Turkey is unlikely to remain on the sidelines.

          (in this case, we will assume that the Britons and the Americans will not fight openly so as not to bring matters to a nuclear war).
        2. Crimean partisan 1974
          Crimean partisan 1974 5 November 2020 19: 58
          -1
          Parity 7 our RTOs + 1 corvette on the Black Sea Fleet (Mosquitoes / Uranians / Caliber / Malachites) ..... you forgot to add complexes from the Crimea and the naval aviation itself from the territory of the Crimea, and from the Crimea the entire water area of ​​the Black Sea is shot through
          1. Runway
            Runway 6 November 2020 00: 58
            -1
            You, as a dosimetric chemist, of course know better. Perhaps you should turn to the "happy people" to disperse the pests that are lobbying for the use of the Uranium / Mosquito / Malachite anti-ship missiles on the Navy's military ships. As well as DBK "Ball".
            Doesn't it seem strange to you that if modern MBTs have the ability to hit targets from distances of 2-4 km, no one says goodbye to portable vehicles with a range of up to 400 m (0,4 km)?
      3. Crimean partisan 1974
        Crimean partisan 1974 5 November 2020 19: 54
        0
        Why does it suck? ... because it's a subsonic anti-ship missile ... which means ... oops
        1. nobody75
          nobody75 5 November 2020 20: 18
          +4
          In such dimensions, it is impossible to make an SCR with a supersonic cruising speed and a range of 180 km. And why?
          1. Crimean partisan 1974
            Crimean partisan 1974 5 November 2020 20: 25
            -1
            In such dimensions, make an anti-ship missile system with a supersonic cruising speed and a range of 180 ......... oops ... it's like laughing at you .... 40 years ago, the USSR created a project of missile boats "Molniya" which carried 4 anti-ship missiles Mosquito at a speed of 2500 km per hour. that is, about 800 meters per second ... well, how about the dimensions ...
            1. nobody75
              nobody75 5 November 2020 20: 44
              +3
              We didn’t seem to have drunk on brotherhood ...
              Have you read about the dimensions? I seem to have written in Russian ...
              TPK NSM - 4 x 0,81 x 0,8 m. Weight of TPK 710 kg.
              3M-80 Mosquito - 9,385x1,3x1,3 m Weight 3M-80 - 3950 kg 3M-80E - 4500 kg
              Thus, the Mosquito is more than 2 times longer and more than one and a half times thicker! And the Mosquito weighs 4 tons.
              My advice to you, as a Crimean partisan, do not use the Mosquito against the Russian Black Sea Fleet - disgrace yourself. And learn Russian - it will come in handy.
              Sincerely
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. nobody75
                  nobody75 5 November 2020 21: 26
                  +5
                  why the hell to buy

                  Is it in Russian? Is there a word "lino" in Russian?
                  I meant the dimensions of the PCR. The displacement of the carrier does not affect the cruising speed of the rocket. Remember this young man to be clever in front of girls at school.
                  First, the GOS of the Mosquito is simply suppressed by modern electronic warfare. Secondly, Ukraine does not produce this type of PCR. Thirdly, the "Molniya" has no air defense (it is fun to consider the MANPADS as such). Fourth, the target designation system and the "Lightning" radio are antiques.
                  Sincerely
                  1. Crimean partisan 1974
                    Crimean partisan 1974 5 November 2020 21: 51
                    -2
                    ..
                    Firstly, the GOS of the Mosquito is simply suppressed by modern electronic warfare. ... is it debatable or ...... but the speed of anti-ship missiles is important ... especially since you can also plant an anti-ship missile of the CLAB class in the launcher
                    Secondly, Ukraine does not produce this type of PCR ........ yes, they do not produce anything there at all ... it's no secret
                    Thirdly, the "Molniya" has no air defense (it is fun to consider the MANPADS as such). Fourthly, the target designation system and the "Lightning" slingshot are antiques ... well, Molnyakha has a Voschet ZRPK Kortik ... this is serious, two 30 mm gatlings at 5 thousand rounds per minute per section and 8 ZRU Kortik ready to fire
                    and also about target designation. on Molnyakh ... this is passive over-the-horizon target detection
                    good luck
                    1. nobody75
                      nobody75 5 November 2020 22: 07
                      +2
                      all the more so since it is possible to plant a CLAB class anti-ship missile in the launcher

                      Are you talking about "Caliber"? Try to shove it in ... It's easier to build "Karakurt".
                      Well, Molnyakha's waxet has a ZRPK Dagger

                      ZRPK Kortik in 1989 was only adopted for service.
                      At 1241 - two AK630M units. These are your two gatlings.
                      Sincerely
                      1. Crimean partisan 1974
                        Crimean partisan 1974 5 November 2020 22: 56
                        0
                        Yes, that is right. two gatling 30 mm and 8 daggers ready to launch
                      2. nobody75
                        nobody75 6 November 2020 07: 46
                        +1
                        Excuse me, but what should I see? Have you removed 2 AK630s and stuck a combat module? And the control room? And the surveillance radar? Who will protect the front hemisphere? For completing low-flying anti-ship missiles - it will do. And who will be engaged in shooting them?
                        And why all this, if they put a normal Shell on Karakurt.
                        Sincerely
                      3. Crimean partisan 1974
                        Crimean partisan 1974 6 November 2020 08: 51
                        -2
                        And why is all this, ...... Ilya. I understandably explained myself, arguing that subsonic anti-ship missiles are SUCKS in the current conditions ... and the dimensions have nothing to do with ... the only thing I don't understand is your blinkeredness ........ The territory of 404 is just stupidly the Saxons are beating in full here and the Norwegians are connected, the stump is clear that the 404 will not be able to pay tango in the end what will be given ... guess at once
                      4. nobody75
                        nobody75 6 November 2020 13: 18
                        +2
                        Excuse me again, what does the word "Sucks" mean? I do not know of such criteria for the effectiveness of the SVN! The entire Caliber family is subsonic. Onyx on the marching section is subsonic. Do you have to get personal? Or is it the result of the Ukrainization of the Crimeans?
                        Sincerely
                      5. Crimean partisan 1974
                        Crimean partisan 1974 6 November 2020 13: 38
                        -2
                        Forgive me again, what does the word "Sucks" mean? ........ I explain ... unable to solve the assigned tasks effectively
                        The entire "Caliber" family is subsonic ........ not true. ... 54 of the nominal CLAB, leaving the radio horizon, picks up speed of about 1 km per second, that is, the crew has only 30 seconds to repel the attack, that is, if there was an attack by a Norwegian anti-ship missile, then multiply the time to repel the attack by 4 , that is, 2 minutes at which at such a speed it is possible even from MANPADS
                        Onyx on the marching section is subsonic. .... you forgot that there are flight modes, what mode will be. this is based on the situation
                        Do you have to switch to personalities? .... let's leave that ... I respect you too ... you are a very interesting opponent .... but Crimeans are different, as elsewhere ... and what does the paperwork come from the language criterion .. .. we have three of them
                      6. nobody75
                        nobody75 6 November 2020 14: 04
                        +1
                        54 of the nominal CLAB, leaving the radio horizon, picks up speed of about 1 km per second

                        And before that, what speed?
                        The AWACS aircraft will detect it at what distance and direct a fighter or anti-aircraft missile?
                        the crew has only 30 seconds to repel the attack

                        This is without over-the-horizon detection and interception. If you have air cover, then the line of interception should be moved back by 150 - 200 km. minimum.
                        then multiply the time to repel an attack by 4, that is, 2 minutes, and at this speed you can even from MANPADS
                        Onyx on the marching section is subsonic. .... you forgot that there are flight modes, what mode will be. this is based on the situation

                        The flight mode there is determined by the altitude ... For modern air defense systems, both M1 and M2 do not pose a big threat. All of them are able to work in automatic mode without the participation of the crew, so the reaction time is not a critical parameter. The channel and noise immunity of the seeker are much more important. NSM has infrared, passive GOS. Accordingly, it will not react to dipole reflectors and electronic warfare. And to irradiate the target, too.
                        And please stop poking me ...
                        Sincerely
                      7. Crimean partisan 1974
                        Crimean partisan 1974 6 November 2020 14: 37
                        0
                        1 .. the AWACS will detect it at what distance and guide a fighter or anti-aircraft missile? 404 have no AWACS at all ..
                        2 ... If you have air cover, then move the line of interception 150 - 200 km. at least ... no, it will not move away ... because they themselves will be at gunpoint
                        3 ... the interference immunity of the seeker. NSM has infrared, passive GOS. Accordingly, it will not react to dipole reflectors and electronic warfare. And to irradiate the target too ...... yeah. even tomahawks in recent events in Syria are not even that ... that is, from the shelling of 120 missiles, only a dozen flew to the target. and the hatchets are quite crammed with tools and software steeper than those of the Norwegians ...
                        perhaps you can put an end
                      8. nobody75
                        nobody75 6 November 2020 15: 17
                        +1
                        no matter how it will not find it and will not lead anything ... it is not yet a fact that it will be there ... but if in relation to this article, then 404 generally have no AWACS planes ..

                        The AUG will definitely have it, and the Ukrainians can also place NATO airbases ... which they are likely to do in the next 2 - 3 years.
                        no, it won't move away ... because they themselves will be at gunpoint

                        Who / what?
                        that is, from the shelling of 120 missiles, only a dozen flew to the target. and the hatchets are quite crammed with tools and software cooler than those of the Norwegians

                        No worse stuffed. They used to have guidance on an electronic map. Using radar and ISN. Then they changed it for GPS. In Syria, it was GPS that was actively jammed. But it's not that...
                        From an engineering point of view, can you explain to me why 0,95M is "Sucks" and 1,2M is "cool"?
                        Sincerely
                      9. Crimean partisan 1974
                        Crimean partisan 1974 6 November 2020 16: 01
                        0
                        they can also place NATO airbases ... which they will most likely do in the next 2 - 3 years ........ no, they cannot ... but on the way they will not be able to ... the situation is not stable ... It's one thing to place a contingent, another thing to deploy a base ... these are different concepts
                        Under the gun of whom / what? ... just a note ... from the territory of the Crimea, the entire water area of ​​the Pontic Sea is shot through. well, or Black, whatever you like ... so the problem of removing aircraft is not a problem
                        You can explain to me, from an engineering point of view, why 0,95M is "Sucks" and 1,2M is "cool"? ....... first you should learn to read Russian in white ... 280 km per second in the current conditions is not enough ... but nevertheless under 1 km per second is the norm ..... so the question of filling .... you ay. no matter. when the thread to hunt for feathered hodle !!! !! if you went there are swifts or swallows in the trophies !!! I don't, but there are many ducks and geese. and even a couple of pheasants. did not count partridges
                      10. nobody75
                        nobody75 6 November 2020 17: 05
                        +1
                        if you went there are swifts or swallows in the trophies !!!

                        One swallow was - and this is not a trophy.
                        280 km per second is not enough in current conditions

                        Enough to leave the Solar System ... Perhaps this is a typo of 280 m / s.
                        Good - 280 m / s is not enough.
                        Is 380 m / s normal?
                        Sincerely
                      11. Crimean partisan 1974
                        Crimean partisan 1974 7 November 2020 08: 58
                        0
                        One swallow was - and this is not a trophy ..... see a stray shot, sometimes ... I had it like that in the country, in the bushes sparrows swarmed. I sometimes used to scare them out of the air, and once I didn’t aim and hit them ... in a nightingale. it was a shame ... there was that nightingale with a finger and it had to happen ...
                        on the topic .... I rushed to correct the error, but apparently I was late .... in general, 380 m per second is already not enough ..... the recent exercises on the Black Sea to intercept the P-35 (1200 km per hour) were successful , all 2
                        Anti-ship missiles were destroyed ... nevertheless, it is worth noting that the attacks on Progress were frontal ... that is, sideways ... but there is one confusion., And it refers to the distant military events in Vietnam ... to the middle the massacre of US fighters reduced losses from shelling of their S-75 missiles ... ... the convergence speed was up to 1500 m per second, the missile defense fuse was simply delayed and the warhead was detonated when the plane was already out of the affected area ... well, something like that ... it didn't work out compressed ... all the positive aspects ... and it's time for subsonic to be on the shelf of history and not to present them as a miracle weapon
                      12. nobody75
                        nobody75 7 November 2020 14: 20
                        +2
                        I cannot agree with you. From my point of view, the flight with high M numbers of domestic anti-ship missiles is a purely marketing ploy. It is explained simply by the reluctance to develop a compact two-mode turbojet engine with subsonic cruising speed and supersonic flight speed. Since the days of Chalomey's company (in which, by the way, Khrushchev Jr. worked), our missilemen have been using ramjet engines in anti-ship missiles. It's kind of easier to design and manufacture.

                        It can be seen from the above calculation that the efficiency of the ramjet engine at an anti-ship missile speed of 0,5M is only 4,8%. At supersonic speed of 1,5M - 31%. And the maximum efficiency of pvd shows at a speed of 3M - 64%, which is close to the maximum possible efficiency of a heat engine. So I think it's all related to fuel consumption and range. And the "indestructibility" of supersonic anti-ship missiles, in my opinion, is a marketing ploy.
                        Sincerely
                      13. Crimean partisan 1974
                        Crimean partisan 1974 7 November 2020 14: 44
                        0
                        the "indestructibility" of supersonic anti-ship missiles, in my opinion, is a marketing ploy ... ... this is a delusion for a simple reason, a marketing ploy is to push, shall we say, obviously ineffective products. and in countries that respect themselves, the customer requires the required, in this case the Ministry of Defense. which announces a tender for the acceptance of weapons, everyone has different ways, the Ministry of Defense, by definition, a priori orders only advanced technologies and developments .......... you will not deny that the AKM in a combat situation is worse than a submachine gun, well, let's say PPS (this is perhaps the most successful submachine gun in terms of production and efficiency and reliability)
                      14. nobody75
                        nobody75 7 November 2020 14: 47
                        +1
                        I gave the efficiency calculation up there! As a justification. And the modern "Tao" of the PKR, from my humble point of view, is pure TMO. Create an "endless" line at the entrance to the pub.
                        Sincerely
                      15. Crimean partisan 1974
                        Crimean partisan 1974 7 November 2020 14: 55
                        0
                        we will remain unconvinced ... nevertheless, progress is taking place in the leading countries in supersonic and hypper sound anti-ship missiles. and the rogue will be poured for tanga subsonic
                      16. nobody75
                        nobody75 7 November 2020 14: 58
                        +2
                        Okay, let's stay - I'll bargain at the power department - I'll run a simulation.
                        I will shoot at Talvar with those and these rockets.
                        Sincerely
                      17. Crimean partisan 1974
                        Crimean partisan 1974 7 November 2020 15: 07
                        +1
                        Okay, let's stay - I'll bargain at the power department - I'll conduct a simulation ... if you can share it with me ... I'm not being silly ... really interesting ... but simulators are so so ... a lot to the authors of questions ... ...
                        for example, my favorite simulator IL-2, there are many questions to the developers of studio C2 ... I hope your department will be more realistic
                        with RESPECT and Happy Revolution Day, if you do not celebrate Revolution Day, then unofficially with Men's Day, sounds idiotic, but nevertheless
                      18. nobody75
                        nobody75 7 November 2020 15: 09
                        +1
                        Thank you - Happy Holidays !!!
                        I'll go drink some Cognac ...
                        Sincerely
                      19. Crimean partisan 1974
                        Crimean partisan 1974 7 November 2020 15: 14
                        +1
                        Yes, I, too ... in the morning I put a clove for Ilyich ... I'm waiting for the kents, I bought some vodka, let's go and see the mushrooms for one thing .... in short .. good luck and without heart attacks
                        Sincerely .... you are not a teacher by chance !!! influencing strongly
          2. Lex_is
            Lex_is 7 November 2020 16: 19
            0
            reluctance to develop a compact dual-mode turbojet engine

            In my opinion, not so much reluctance as much higher cost and laboriousness of development. There is a huge backlog of ramjet engines, which is used.
  5. Cyril G ...
    Cyril G ... 14 November 2020 23: 29
    0
    You do not see the Positive or what? The positive was initially for IT and was conceived as a VTS detection station (NLC). The only ship lost is Pennant - they put a POSITIVE instead.
  • Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
    Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 5 November 2020 16: 06
    +2
    ... the Norwegians have connected ... you see, for the debts they want to chop off the southern land ...

    Something new. Insanity is strong, nd.
  • Avior
    Avior 5 November 2020 17: 08
    +3
    This is a stealth missile of the latest generation, with the possibility of passive guidance, full use on land, with two-way communication with the carrier.
    It’s not a crap.
  • Cananecat
    Cananecat 5 November 2020 17: 44
    -1
    It's not that the rocket sucks ... remember the last change with the constitutional court in / in Ukraine?
    I suspect that the money will be outraged, the boats will be built, and, as always, they will refuse to pay, due to the illegality of the transaction. Well, what ... once a ride and another time it will. )))
  • donavi49
    donavi49 5 November 2020 18: 52
    +4
    the rocket sucks ..


    In general, the X-35 (classmate) sucks compared to the NSM. For NSM can fly into passiveness so that they won't even have time to play a combat one. Uranium cannot do this and will be used for it, because it will light up when the GOS is turned on and irradiated.

    This is the most modern and advanced anti-ship missile system of the western block to date. The Americans switch to it from Harpoons if that.
  • Trojan_wolf
    Trojan_wolf 5 November 2020 14: 56
    0
    Squadrons with zhovto-blakitnyy banners ply the oceans ... tremble the enemy!
    1. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 5 November 2020 16: 48
      +1
      Quote: Trojan_Wolf
      Squadrons with zhovto-blakite banners ply the oceans.

      You are right, you noticed "surf the oceans". So I noticed that US, British, even Turkish ships are entering Odessa, and indeed all and sundry, but I've never heard that the "ships of the Navy" of Ukraine, at least with some kind of visit (for example, Zelensky) to some port (naval base) of the USA, Britain, Turkey or Iceland. I wonder why ? They do not invite, or did not bother with the attention of the owners, or for another more serious reason.
      1. Clear
        Clear 5 November 2020 21: 34
        +3
        Quote: tihonmarine
        Quote: Trojan_Wolf
        Squadrons with zhovto-blakite banners ply the oceans.

        You are right, you noticed "surf the oceans". So I noticed that US, British, even Turkish ships are entering Odessa, and indeed all and sundry, but I've never heard that the "ships of the Navy" of Ukraine, at least with some kind of visit (for example, Zelensky) to some port (naval base) of the USA, Britain, Turkey or Iceland. I wonder why ? They do not invite, or did not bother with the attention of the owners, or for another more serious reason.

        The real level of the President of Ukraine Zelensky corresponds to the call (on the agenda) to the chief of intelligence of England.
        1. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 5 November 2020 21: 50
          0
          Quote: Clear
          The real level of the President of Ukraine Zelensky corresponds to the call (on the agenda) to the chief of intelligence of England.

          They were summoned to reconnaissance, but they were not allowed to reach the chief. Zela's rank is not the same.
          1. Clear
            Clear 5 November 2020 21: 55
            +4
            Quote: tihonmarine
            Quote: Clear
            The real level of the President of Ukraine Zelensky corresponds to the call (on the agenda) to the chief of intelligence of England.

            They were summoned to reconnaissance, but they were not allowed to reach the chief. Zela's rank is not the same.

            So I am about it. Why are you minus? laughing
            1. tihonmarine
              tihonmarine 6 November 2020 09: 41
              0
              Quote: Clear
              So I am about it. Why are you minus?

              So it is the Sumerians who minus you, or the followers of Soros.
      2. Niel-le-Calais
        Niel-le-Calais 5 November 2020 23: 16
        -1
        Quote: tihonmarine
        but I have never heard that the "ships of the Navy" of Ukraine, at least with some kind of visit (for example Zelensky), entered some port (naval base) of the USA, Britain, Turkey or Iceland. I wonder why ? They do not invite, or did not bother with the attention of the owners, or for another more serious reason.

        not lately. But earlier they went in, made a round the world.
        But it is generally not customary for Ukrainian presidents to make visits on ships.
        They prefer airplanes.
        Zelenskiy was on a visit on the flagship this year.
        1. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 6 November 2020 09: 43
          0
          Quote: Niel-le-Calais
          But it is generally not customary for Ukrainian presidents to make visits on ships.
          They prefer airplanes.

          Aha on the cruiser "Ukraine" can be.
  • rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 5 November 2020 15: 05
    +5
    it is proposed to equip the Norwegian anti-ship missiles Naval Strike Missile (NSM), and not the Ukrainian anti-ship missiles "Neptune"
    This means that the cost of the missiles will be added to the cost of the boats, which will need to be purchased, taking into account the expenditures for firing. In addition, like any rocket, they will need to be serviced, and for this you will have to go through some kind of training. How England fuss arming Ukraine and not only for the profit of its military-industrial complex, but also against Russia.
    1. ANB
      ANB 5 November 2020 16: 40
      -1
      ... but for this you have to go through what no,

      What for? They will be taken to Norway.
      Or they will write off and buy new ones.
      This is on credit, which means, according to Ukraine, free of charge. :)
    2. t-12
      t-12 5 November 2020 16: 52
      +1
      arming Ukraine and not only for the profit of its military-industrial complex, but also against Russia.
      Why not repeat the Crimean War, only with the forces not of your own army, but of someone else's cannon fodder?
  • Nikolai Petrov
    Nikolai Petrov 5 November 2020 15: 19
    +1
    Most interesting, the ruin will buy. True, on credit, but these troughs will not save the ruin. Even a boat will be expensive for the ruins. There are a lot of freeloaders. In ruins, this is the norm.
    1. cniza
      cniza 5 November 2020 15: 32
      +6
      So they also believe that the loan can not be given - because there is nothing ... laughing
      1. Turanov
        Turanov 5 November 2020 16: 29
        -4
        Quote: cniza
        So they also believe that the loan can not be given - because there is nothing ... laughing

        They hope to move everything to Russia later .. Because in Kiev the temporary workers sat down on the suitcases of the loot, many have already disappeared to Canada, Israel, etc.
        1. cniza
          cniza 5 November 2020 17: 41
          +2
          They always want goodies, only this time they will break off from Russia ...
          1. Turanov
            Turanov 5 November 2020 19: 28
            -5
            Quote: cniza
            They always want goodies, only this time they will break off from Russia ...

            Yes, Viktor breaks off (their lawyers are the world's wolves) Gazprom is shaken by billions, but Russia will still build a bypass gas pipeline .. The Baltic states are sad, Lukashenko blocked the smuggling channel for them and Russia redirected freight flows))) Everything is just beginning .. and not milking Russia out of habit and still throwing mud at her while laughing .. negative soldier
            1. cniza
              cniza 5 November 2020 20: 22
              +2
              Vitaly, this is not their merit, it is the West that rules against Russia, but the time will come and we will take off three skins from them ... it looks like territories will suit us ...
              1. Turanov
                Turanov 5 November 2020 20: 31
                -4
                Quote: cniza
                Vitaly, this is not their merit, it is the West that rules against Russia, but the time will come and we will take off three skins from them ... it looks like territories will suit us ...

                Of course not them and they did not even get this money, they wrote off everything as a debt (they only signed and bowed)))
                "All-Union" debriefing will come and will be very tough and don't care which side of the skullcap or the hat is tilted (there is such an anecdote))) .. hi Russia is already different. soldier
                1. cniza
                  cniza 5 November 2020 20: 34
                  +2
                  And the time is different, and the generation is new, and the price is different, so let them get ready ...
                  1. Turanov
                    Turanov 5 November 2020 20: 59
                    -4
                    Quote: cniza
                    And the time is different, and the generation is new, and the price is different, so let them get ready ...

                    Let wills be written for orphanages and homes for the disabled .. hi
          2. Clear
            Clear 5 November 2020 21: 36
            +4
            Quote: cniza
            only this time from Russia it will break off ..

            It was long ago to see the light.
    2. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 5 November 2020 16: 54
      +1
      Quote: Nikolai Petrov
      Most interesting, the ruin will buy. True on credit

      That's it on credit. I don’t remember someone who said a long time ago - "The rich buy goods for cash, the poor in installments, and the poor on credit."
      1. Turanov
        Turanov 5 November 2020 19: 38
        -3
        Quote: tihonmarine
        Quote: Nikolai Petrov
        Most interesting, the ruin will buy. True on credit

        That's it on credit. I don’t remember someone who said a long time ago - "The rich buy goods for cash, the poor in installments, and the poor on credit."

        And then the debts will be thrown off on Russia, when everything has already been plundered, up to the black earth and burial grounds of yao waste will be everywhere ..
        PS They will not give us Ukraine so easily until they destroy everything there .. And then they will wave with a "generous hand" to take these rogues, they are no longer interesting to us .. angry
        1. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 5 November 2020 21: 48
          +1
          Quote: Turanov
          They won't give us Ukraine so easily until they destroy everything there

          Now Ukraine itself will not agree to join with Russia, they have already done a good job there for 30 years. And in Russia, in order to take Ukraine, J.V. Stalin must appear.
          1. Turanov
            Turanov 5 November 2020 21: 57
            -4
            Quote: tihonmarine
            Quote: Turanov
            They won't give us Ukraine so easily until they destroy everything there

            Now Ukraine itself will not agree to join with Russia, they have already done a good job there for 30 years. And in Russia, in order to take Ukraine, J.V. Stalin must appear.

            My dear will go, after the Banderaites again hide in their caches, waiting in the wings and the Sudoplatovs!
            And you will want to eat .. (after all, they even forbid lard to produce their own))))
            Such an Outskirts of Russia is not needed, except for its ports, even if they were looted. Let them farm))) hi
            1. tihonmarine
              tihonmarine 6 November 2020 09: 46
              0
              Quote: Turanov
              My dear will go, after the Banderaites again hide in their caches, waiting in the wings and the Sudoplatovs!

              But so far they are in the government and the Verkhovna Rada, and the true patriots have to hide, not the Banderaites. And their caches are like palaces and teremts.
  • cniza
    cniza 5 November 2020 15: 30
    +4
    The missile boats, which Britain intends to build for Ukraine, are proposed to be equipped with Norwegian Naval Strike Missile (NSM) anti-ship missiles, and not Ukrainian anti-ship missiles "Neptune".


    They will rip off to the last thread ...
    1. Clear
      Clear 5 November 2020 21: 37
      +4
      Quote: cniza
      The missile boats, which Britain intends to build for Ukraine, are proposed to be equipped with Norwegian Naval Strike Missile (NSM) anti-ship missiles, and not Ukrainian anti-ship missiles "Neptune".


      They will rip off to the last thread ...

      Because this is the market!
      1. cniza
        cniza 6 November 2020 08: 39
        +2
        Yeah, only forced and with one seller ...
      2. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 6 November 2020 09: 51
        +1
        Quote: Clear
        Because this is the market!

        Well, you noticed that if you didn't grow vegetables at your dacha, run to the bazaar, and there they will tear off the aliks and shura from you into the tridoroga. If you don't like it, don't take it, go through the bazaar, find it cheaper (and there are only aliks and shura in the bazaar).
  • askort154
    askort154 5 November 2020 15: 37
    +3
    At the same time, London offers Kiev to build eight boats with funds allocated as a loan for 10 years.

    It is immediately evident that the British still know little about modern Ukraine.
    If she is still alive in 10 years, she will be able to pay - only in kind.
  • maktub
    maktub 5 November 2020 16: 00
    -1
    According to the signed agreement, which has been repeatedly written about, two boats will be built in Great Britain, the other six in Ukraine.
    Most likely at the Nibulon enterprise, because it has the most modern equipment
  • Kerensky
    Kerensky 5 November 2020 16: 02
    0
    It seemed to me in the picture that he had outboard motors ...
  • Turanov
    Turanov 5 November 2020 16: 27
    -5
    Ukraine is turning into a garbage dump of decommissioned NATO junk .. And they probably rejoice, and they are not taking a little money from them.
    But Ukraine used to produce missile and aircraft equipment, built aircraft carriers, tanks, etc.
    Shame and contempt from the entire Soviet people
    1. maktub
      maktub 5 November 2020 16: 41
      -1
      Here you are, to put it mildly, mistaken, the boats will be of a completely new project. (There are only the parameters of the "Wishlist")
      Nobody except the "top" is aware of the details of the project, which by the way is surprising to everyone laughing
  • yfast
    yfast 5 November 2020 16: 44
    -1
    Quote: Turanov
    Ukraine turns into a trash heap of decommissioned NATO junk

    It will be easier to get samples.
  • Avior
    Avior 5 November 2020 16: 44
    +3
    This has long been known.
    The British are creating a project taking into account the possibility of replacing the NSM launchers,
  • Avior
    Avior 5 November 2020 17: 01
    +4
    It has long been agreed that it will be possible to replace missiles with Neptune launchers, missiles of approximately the same class in size.
    But the NSM is a new generation stealth missile, with an anti-jamming seeker of a completely different level than the Harpoon and its clones, which is inferior in its seeker only to LRASM.
    The Americans are also switching to NSM as a lightweight universal RC.
    The price, of course, is certainly more expensive, but the capabilities of the rocket are higher than the Harpoon, of course.
  • orionvitt
    orionvitt 5 November 2020 17: 04
    +1
    it is proposed to equip the Norwegian anti-ship missiles Naval Strike Missile (NSM), and not the Ukrainian anti-ship missiles "Neptune"
    But what about the "newest superfood" Neptune? They tried so hard, they trumped the whole world, and now, on you. happy joy. laughing
    RCC two-stage subsonic with a range of 185 km
    Awl for soap. Something old, that's from there.
  • APASUS
    APASUS 5 November 2020 17: 06
    -2
    Redrawn yacht for walking, with machine guns and rockets, and even outboard motors ........ tin!
    1. Avior
      Avior 5 November 2020 17: 25
      +2
      The motors are there on the speedboat.
    2. Turanov
      Turanov 5 November 2020 22: 02
      -3
      Quote: APASUS
      Redrawn yacht for walking, with machine guns and rockets, and even outboard motors ........ tin!

      Yes, let them be proud and jump until the motors jam ..))))
  • lvov_aleksey
    lvov_aleksey 6 November 2020 00: 33
    0
    curve article - where is the amount?
  • Zomanus
    Zomanus 6 November 2020 05: 59
    +1
    Well, this is still a promise ... Although the boat is beautiful.