Military Review

If you have no experience. Seniors, be vigilant

72

Extreme case



The Russian proverb about the law and the tongue, I think, is not worth reminding - too many people still remember it. But what remains to be done when a very high-ranking lawyer once made a reservation in public that "the law is like a tree, you can get around it." And it was not a notary, not a lawyer or a prosecutor, but a judge, and not even an arbitration judge.

From legal combinations with the calculation of pensions, for which such masters are workers of the FIU, I once swore to write at all. I was confused by the fact that the account there usually went not only for thousands, but sometimes not even for hundreds of rubles, but (one must admit) - really for a penny.

However, when I had to retire and look for an increase to it (one might say, in odd jobs), I decided to forget about my vow. Moreover, the gentlemen from the Pension Fund over the years have become so impudent that pensioners are already cheated by thousands (and not just one), and, which is typical, they have been cheated for years.

After that, due to compensations, if they can be sued, the pensioner could easily buy a TV, tablet or smartphone, albeit not of the highest class. And when, at the request of my fellow retirees who have received yet another refusal to recalculate their pension, I have to calculate a new pension size for them, I just get lost.

After all, there was, it turns out, a time when everything was quite simple - I gained a lot of experience, received, accordingly, a pension significantly more than others. Now times, as you know, are different - the pension reform is over, and many of its provisions will not go anywhere, even if we take and cancel the increase in the retirement age.

It is clear that there is nothing even to count on, but the Pension Fund of Russia is in all seriousness proud of one of the latest innovations. Of those that should somewhat soften the tough blow that reform has turned out to be for all who have a pension yet to come.

The point is that there is now a new benefit for Russians with a long work record - they can retire early. The FIU argues that this new condition appeared in connection with the latest changes in the pension legislation - that is, immediately after the reform.

To be precise (as in the Pension Fund), then almost from January 1, 2019, although in fact practice shows that the norm today does not always work, and not for everyone. Let's just say - only in extreme cases.

Nevertheless, in order to get the right to retire early on old age, men can (or rather need to) accumulate 42 years of experience, and women - 37 years. But what size the pension will be with such an early exit is a separate topic altogether. So far, I simply do not have a single real example of such a retirement.

A little later, or rather, much later (for which special thanks to pension reformers), another "extreme" standard will begin to operate. Anticipating the innovation, let me remind you that until now it took only five years of work experience to receive the minimum pension.

But now they are going to change this soft norm. It is planned that in order to assign an insurance pension by 2024, citizens will be required to accumulate at least 15 years of experience. It looks like both men and women. If they live, of course.

And it only seems that 15 years is not so much. But what does this mean for those who worked all the 90s either in the gray, or, for example, shuttle, without official registration, at least according to the work book, or earned a living in such offices, which today you will not find a trace?


Photo: AP Photo / Dmitri Lovetsky

Sentence! Perhaps fatal ... However, this is still an extreme case.

Count it, but don't even count


But with the experience of 2002-2014, which the reformers simply famously turned into nothing, this is by no means an extreme case. Rather typical. From the point of view of the very approach of the pension bureaucracy to the topic.

For those who retired during these years (the author was a little late), this is, one might say, a blow below the belt. Firstly, this is because in the “fat” zero salaries in terms of currency were very good for many. Secondly, because after the crisis of 2008-2009 and even before the sanctions, pensions were at the very least, but still indexed.

And with a fair calculation, based on 75 percent of the salaries of that time, very many could receive very good sums today. But this is subject to the availability of funds in the FIU. And they, as is well known from the documents that preceded the pension reform, mysteriously disappeared into oblivion.

However, today I have a completely different topic on my agenda - work experience, and all the benefits and preferences associated with it. And the experience of 2002-2014 could well give pensioners quite a lot, in addition to the actual size of pensions. Moreover, at that time the not the most ruthless Federal Pension Law number 173 was in force.

Those who managed to retire just in the zero or early tenths, he directly affects, even despite the reform and the beginning of the operation of laws with different numbers. By the way, they generally only needed a confirmed minimum five-year work experience and the availability of insurance contributions to the Pension Fund of the Russian Federation.

Just because until 2002, citizens simply did not have any pension capital, and they needed data on work experience. About the experience until 2002. If a man had more than 2002 years of service before 25, and a woman more than 20, then each year he added 1 percent to their pension. Remember this rate - 1 percent. About her at the very end.

I often remember how easy and simple my mother-in-law and father-in-law, now, alas, the deceased, who had a minimum of benefits of a different kind, managed to get their additional interest. Although now they would have burned up in a blue flame because of inflation, which is still carefully veiled by the Central Bank.

When the 173rd law was adopted, this actually meant the direct cancellation of all length of service, and not only for 2002-2014, since the length of service was only recorded, but practically did not give the pensioner absolutely nothing. The amount of pensions has become entirely dependent only on the amount of paid insurance premiums.

They should be indexed, like the pensions themselves, but it has been written more than once that indexation does not apply to working pensioners. However, although some influence of work experience still persisted - to calculate the fixed payment that the state guaranteed when calculating the amount of the insurance pension of a particular citizen.

At a time when Law 173 was still in force for everyone, there were no intricate combinations with the number of pension points in the calculations of the Pension Fund until 2014. On the other hand, the total insurance experience that a citizen received by the time of retirement directly influenced (and still does) on the increase or decrease of that very fixed payment, which is from the state.

Here, it turns out, the dog is buried. When five years ago, even before the notorious reform, a new pension law came into force - already at number 400, it seemed to have canceled the previous pension legislation. However, it did not change the system of applying the norms for calculating labor pensions.

The size of old-age labor pensions, both under the 400th law, and even after the reform, as before, are determined by the norms of law number 173. By the way, in article 36 of the current legislation (that is, the 400th law), which determines its entry in force, and it is said:

Part 3. From the date of entry into force of this Federal Law, the Federal Law of December 17, 2001 No. 173-FZ "On labor pensions in the Russian Federation" is not applied, with the exception of the rules governing the calculation of the amount of labor pensions and subject to application in order to determine the size insurance pensions ...

What does this mean in practice? And the fact that the norms relate to the calculation of not the insurance part of the pension, but namely the labor pension - that is, the entire pension. It also, according to the law, consists of the insurance part and the very fixed payment from the state.

So, pensioners, be vigilant, the Pension Fund may not tell you that not only the size of old-age labor pensions should be calculated in the old way, but also the amount of the insured person's estimated pension capital, which is used to calculate the labor pension. That is - the same insurance part of the old-age pension.

For those who retired at a time when the main law was not the 400th and not the ones brought with the reform, but the modest 173rd, and has a long experience (like my father-in-law and mother-in-law), I can recall only one his rate. Which, by the way, has not been canceled.

So, since January 1, 2015 (when the 400th law replaced the 173rd), the norm of Article 14 of the 173rd Law on increasing the fixed payment by 6% for each year in excess of the specified (25 and 30 years) total insurance experience. Not 1 percent, but all six.
Author:
Photos used:
newtimes.ru, ridl.io
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  1. Daniil Konovalenko
    Daniil Konovalenko 6 November 2020 10: 07 New
    20
    They will rob it anyway. The state, not for ordinary citizens, for thieves and robbers, with the difference that they do not stand under the bridge with a knife.
    1. Svarog
      Svarog 6 November 2020 10: 14 New
      12
      Quote: Daniil Konovalenko
      They will rob it anyway. The state, not for ordinary citizens, for thieves and robbers, with the difference that they do not stand under the bridge with a knife.

      They sat behind high fences and acquired the National Guard ... under the bridge with a knife ... would have dealt with them quickly ..
      1. Sling cutter
        Sling cutter 6 November 2020 10: 26 New
        25
        Putinism threw pensioners and beneficiaries three times, the first in the middle of the XNUMXs, when he stole pension savings, the second, when he monetized benefits, and the third, when he raised the retirement age and, in addition, introduced a point-based system for calculating pension payments.
        1. Tatyana
          Tatyana 6 November 2020 10: 43 New
          +8
          So, since January 1, 2015 (when the 400th law replaced the 173rd), the norm of article 14 of the 173rd law on increasing the fixed payment continues to operate by 6% for each year in excess of the specified (25 and 30 years) total insurance experience. Not 1 percent, but all six.

          Unfortunately, to be more precise, the author Tatyana Petrova was mistaken. Someone misled her. It was not at all the way she writes. Namely.

          Valid for work experience w / m = 25/30 years. for a working pensioner, another 1% of the pension was added to the pension, but no more than only 6% for 6 years.
          Those. 1% x 6 years = 6% And no more, no matter how many people work as a cat over 6 years.

          If a retired pensioner with such an experience of w / m = 25/30 years worked for more than 6 years, i.e. 25/30 + 6 = 31/36 (years),
          then over the next years - over 6 years of overworking in retirement - there were no more pension increments for a year of work in retirement - it was not assigned !!!
          1. Insurgent
            Insurgent 6 November 2020 11: 00 New
            +5
            Quote: Tatiana
            Unfortunately, to be more precise, the author Tatyana Petrova was mistaken. Someone misled her. It was not at all the way she writes.

            Tatyana, so that you yourself do not fall into error, I will reveal a little secret of the "kitchen" of writing such "sentimental" and resonant articles:
            Nothing unusual! A good editor - Podymych, that is, Alexey Podymov, has many authors - all real people, some of them sometimes under pseudonyms. Tatyana Smolyakova including, and she has her own considerations when she is Petrova, when otherwise ... And about the fact that such texts from a woman over 60 are better read - you are absolutely right.

            Regards, Alexey
            1. Tatyana
              Tatyana 6 November 2020 13: 12 New
              +2
              So, since January 1, 2015 (when the 400th law replaced the 173rd), the norm of Article 14 of the 173rd Law on increasing the fixed payment by 6% for each year in excess of the specified (25 and 30 years) total insurance experience. Not 1 percent, but all six.

              I have now raised laws 400 and 173 - and I did not find anything about increasing the size of the pension of the total insurance experience for each year of work in retirement above the indicated (25 and 30 years) by any FIXED percent in article 14 of FZ 173.
              The formula for calculating the pension does not change - and the recalculated pension of a working pensioner annually depends only on the previous experience + 1 year and his earnings in the added year.
              Therefore, the% of the increase in pension for the year is floating, but as a rule for the majority of workers it is within 1%
              Somehow it turns out.

              And about 6% in Federal Law 173 we are not talking about an increase in pensions for working pensioners, but about compensation for the loss of pensions for all pensioners due to inflation in the country and in full accordance with its size - and not more than 6%.

              It seems that the author just confused these provisions in laws 173 and 400.
      2. Ilya-spb
        Ilya-spb 6 November 2020 10: 52 New
        +4
        Eh ... fooling people! You cannot count on the state.
        1. Hagen
          Hagen 6 November 2020 12: 24 New
          -3
          Quote: Ilya-spb
          Eh ... fooling people! You cannot count on the state.

          Obviously, you are not counting .. Share your experience, how to get around these calculations?
          1. Ilya-spb
            Ilya-spb 6 November 2020 13: 34 New
            0
            To be honest, I do not count on our state. Saving up slowly ...
            1. Hagen
              Hagen 6 November 2020 14: 36 New
              -2
              Quote: Ilya-spb
              I am saving up slowly ...

              If it's not a secret, through a bank, private pension fund or other? I'm actually interested in technology. Everyone is trying to solve this problem in their own way. I, for example, through NPF with co-financing ... Other possible options are also interesting.
              1. Esoteric
                Esoteric 6 November 2020 17: 04 New
                +4
                In my opinion, the best option to save, naturally for those who can afford to save, is buying currency, gold, and storing it in a three-liter bank buried in a secluded place.
                And carrying money to banks is fraught with the fact that at one "fine" moment you will not see them, and you will not be able to receive anything.
              2. Mister who
                Mister who 7 November 2020 22: 26 New
                +2
                Buy real estate, even currency and gold do not give 100% that tomorrow they will not depreciate, it is not for nothing that the bourgeoisie buy real estate in Europe.
        2. frruc
          frruc 9 November 2020 12: 31 New
          -1
          To believe the state is not to respect itself. Some acquaintances acquire commercial and residential real estate, rent it out, here is the income (pension multiplied by 3-4 times, or even more), pensioners of big cities (Moscow, St. Petersburg) often rent out their housing (for 30-50 thousand rubles months) and leave to live in dachas and I know a lot of those.
    2. Sling cutter
      Sling cutter 6 November 2020 10: 29 New
      14
      Quote: Daniil Konovalenko
      They will rob it anyway. The state, not for ordinary citizens, for thieves and robbers, with the difference that they do not stand under the bridge with a knife.

      That's right! +100500
      The current education, mistakenly referred to as the state, is anti-people in nature and its actions are called genocide.
    3. your1970
      your1970 6 November 2020 10: 31 New
      +4
      Quote: Daniil Konovalenko
      They will rob it anyway. The state, not for ordinary citizens, for thieves and robbers, with the difference that they do not stand under the bridge with a knife.

      в national USSR ordinary citizens Prime Minister Pavlov 21.01.1991/XNUMX/XNUMX - robbed without any torment, at once, cleaned up, without a knife and a bridge ...
      Quote: Svarog
      and got the National Guard
      and managed completely without her ...
      1. Daniil Konovalenko
        Daniil Konovalenko 6 November 2020 10: 41 New
        +2
        The neighbor did not count several years of work experience, allegedly she was on maternity leave, although she had 5 children from the beginning to the mid-60s. And the law on maternity leave was passed in the early 80s.
        1. Insurgent
          Insurgent 6 November 2020 11: 56 New
          +7
          Quote: Daniil Konovalenko
          The neighbor did not count several years of work experience, allegedly she was on maternity leave, although she had 5 children from the beginning to the mid-60s. And the law on maternity leave was passed in the early 80s.


          For the first time in the world, maternity leave was introduced in Soviet Russia in 1917.
          Then the Council of People's Commissars (SNK) adopted the Decree "On benefits for pregnancy and childbirth." In accordance with it, a woman received the right to maintain a job and a paid leave of 112 days (8 weeks before delivery and 8 weeks after delivery).
          It is important to understand that we are talking about maternity leave... It was provided upon the birth of a child.
          There is also parental leave... It was introduced to the USSR in 1982.

          These are different Laws and concepts.

          And if the collision between these two concepts is somehow not probable request belay nevertheless arose, then it is completely removable in court, probably even with material compensation to the injured party, that is, to your neighbor.
          Let him go to court.
          1. Daniil Konovalenko
            Daniil Konovalenko 6 November 2020 12: 04 New
            0
            Yes, parental leave. Didn't go to court.
            1. Insurgent
              Insurgent 6 November 2020 12: 06 New
              +4
              Quote: Daniil Konovalenko
              Yes, parental leave.Didn't go to court.


              So one of the officials began to smear the caviar thicker yes

              PEOPLE , in the face of your neighbor, ITSELF DOES NOT WISH TO DEFEND YOUR RIGHTS , even in a legal manner, and then is indignant that the power does not give a breath ...
              1. Hagen
                Hagen 6 November 2020 12: 26 New
                0
                Quote: Insurgent
                So one of the officials began to smear the caviar thicker

                Those. Did some official manage to put her unreceived share into his personal pocket? Wonderful .. Or otherwise ... wassat
                1. Insurgent
                  Insurgent 6 November 2020 12: 34 New
                  +6
                  Quote: Hagen
                  Those. Did some official manage to put her unreceived share into his personal pocket? It's tricky .. Or else ...

                  Without further ado, I will describe the process - aunt eNnoe the number of years of experience "presented" to the state, thus saving the state budget and the FIU ENNU the amount of money.
                  Further - a "wise" and not clean on hand the official, will figure out what to do ...
                  1. Hagen
                    Hagen 6 November 2020 14: 32 New
                    -1
                    Quote: Insurgent
                    Further - a "wise" and not clean on hand the official, will figure out what to do ...

                    Another spit into space ... lol
                    Quote: Insurgent
                    I will describe the process - ...... an official, he will figure out what to do.

                    With such an instruction, they could not open a beer can in the 90s wassat
              2. Daniil Konovalenko
                Daniil Konovalenko 6 November 2020 12: 39 New
                +5
                Why violate rights, so that they can then defend? The law is not respected by those who must.
                1. Insurgent
                  Insurgent 6 November 2020 12: 46 New
                  +5
                  Quote: Daniil Konovalenko
                  Why violate rights, so that they can then defend?

                  This question was supposed to be asked by your neighbor to the official (official) of the pension fund, where she was so "shod".
                  Moreover, I don’t know WHY they did this to her, but she (according to you) did not lift a finger herself to somehow clarify the situation. Perhaps it was even possible to resolve the misunderstanding in the pension administration by pointing out their mistake and submitting the relevant documents there.

                  No, auntie cursing dejectedly, wandered home, cursing what the world stands on, the power ...
                  1. Daniil Konovalenko
                    Daniil Konovalenko 6 November 2020 12: 55 New
                    +3
                    She was deceived, and she herself is to blame. laughing She spoke, went, sought, except that she did not go to court, a sick woman, in the sense that she is sick. Yes, of course, you are right, if the authorities deceived you, you must go to court, which is one of the branches of government, in order to get protection from the arbitrariness of the authorities. smile When, you are deceived, you take into account the moment that you yourself are to blame for letting yourself be deceived and it does not matter who it will be. But the aunt got out of the situation, she began to receive the pension of her deceased husband, it is many times more than her pension. But so, alas, not for everyone ..
                    1. Insurgent
                      Insurgent 6 November 2020 13: 08 New
                      +4
                      Quote: Daniil Konovalenko
                      if the government deceived you, you must go to court, which is one of the branches of government, in order to get protection from the arbitrariness of the government.

                      When you break away from reality, you forget that officials (officials) are sitting in such not high offices, who themselves are a hired force in power, and in "peaceful life" they can be ordinary people, neighbors on the site, entrance, house.

                      Relatives finally, moms, dads, uncles-aunts, brothers-sisters ...
                      The conditional relative of the conditional, simple Vasya Pupkin ...

                      They are the same as you, PEOPLE ...
                      1. Daniil Konovalenko
                        Daniil Konovalenko 6 November 2020 13: 33 New
                        0
                        Why, then the people, the people are cheating ... laughing Yes, we all came out of the people .. smile
                    2. Nikza
                      Nikza 6 November 2020 13: 48 New
                      +1
                      "she began to receive the pension of her deceased husband" Oh, that's how ?! I didn't know that. I look down, there are 5 old women at the entrance. All men already admire daisies, from below. I knew 3 men. All did not live to be 65 years old, worked on retirement. So it turns out that it was ECONOMICALLY beneficial for the old women that the men would die early, that would receive their pension. And now these ... live for their own pleasure, and even on the retirement of their husband :-)) And one old woman, I know for sure, and 10 years in her life did not work.
                      1. Daniil Konovalenko
                        Daniil Konovalenko 6 November 2020 14: 08 New
                        +1
                        They worked together in the same organization, even during the "damned past", she is a secretary. He is the chief mechanic. He died a long time ago 7 years ago. And he began to receive his pension not long ago, two years ago. Why did she go. The work experience is long, but no pension. It turned out that they did not write for several years, I went to the indicated authorities, from people to people .. I did not go out. She no longer had the strength to go to court, and then they told her what to do.
      2. The comment was deleted.
    4. Boris55
      Boris55 6 November 2020 10: 31 New
      -7
      Quote: Daniil Konovalenko
      State, not for ordinary citizens, for thieves and robbers

      According to Karl Marx, the state is not only: "The apparatus of violence of the minority over the majority", but also the system of people's survival, preserving:
      1) language,
      2) territories,
      3) the meaning of life, expressed in the unity and integrity of the sphere of public self-government,
      4) mental warehouse manifesting
      5) in culture.

      So everyone who destroys the power that personifies the state and represents the country in the international arena should always remember that all of you renounce your language, your territory, your culture to please those you serve, whether you understand it or not.

      "Each, to the best of his understanding, works for himself,
      and to the extent of misunderstanding - on the one who understands more
      "
      1. Sling cutter
        Sling cutter 6 November 2020 10: 37 New
        +7
        Quote: Boris55
        So everyone who destroys the power that personifies the state and represents the country in the international arena should always remember that all of you renounce your language, your territory, your culture to please those you serve, whether you understand it or not.

        Can you tell us how you feel about the October Revolution in the light of your commentary?
        Boris, now you are showing your true face as a regime guardian.
        1. Boris55
          Boris55 6 November 2020 10: 40 New
          -5
          Quote: Stroporez
          Can you tell us how you feel about the October Revolution in the light of your commentary?

          I treat her very, very positively. There was another "quiet" revolution in 1924, when power in the party passed from the Trotskyists to the Bolsheviks. I have even greater respect for her.

          Any revolution, including the February one, lowered the country into the Stone Age, including the current colored ones. A change in the social order is quite possible in an evolutionary way.
          1. Sling cutter
            Sling cutter 6 November 2020 10: 44 New
            12
            Quote: Boris55
            I treat her very, very positively. There was another "quiet" revolution in 1924, when power in the party passed from the Trotskyists to the Bolsheviks. I have even greater respect for her.

            Boris, do you understand that now you are worse than any Trotskyist?
            1. Boris55
              Boris55 6 November 2020 10: 45 New
              -7
              Quote: Stroporez
              Boris, do you understand that now you are worse than any Trotskyist?

              No, I'm just a Bolshevik and I defend the interests of the majority in the conditions that we have today.
              1. Sling cutter
                Sling cutter 6 November 2020 10: 55 New
                11
                Quote: Boris55
                No, I'm just a Bolshevik and I defend the interests of the majority in the conditions that we have today.

                laughing Boris, you defend the interests of the comprador oligarch-bureaucratic anti-people government! disguised as a socialist.
                Borya complicity with the invaders during the war was very severely punished, and now you are just acting as an accomplice.
                If you do not understand this, then this is bad, but fixable (although as far as I know you, you are incorrigible), and if deliberately, then you are an enemy of the people, Borya. yes
                1. Boris55
                  Boris55 6 November 2020 11: 01 New
                  -8
                  Quote: Stroporez
                  disguised as a socialist.

                  Once again, I am a Bolshevik and I do not want to plunge the country and the people into another civil war. And again: A change in the social system is quite possible in an evolutionary way. If you do not know this, then this does not mean at all that it is not possible.
          2. Stas157
            Stas157 6 November 2020 10: 50 New
            11
            Quote: Boris55
            I treat her very, very positively.

            Boris has a positive attitude towards everything. Golden man! And to the October Revolution, and the current guardian of the oligarchs, Putin. Simple mortals do not understand his boundless love!))
            1. Boris55
              Boris55 6 November 2020 10: 55 New
              -6
              Quote: Stas157
              and the current guardian of the oligarchs, Putin.

              How not the richest man in our state (Zhirinovsiy) was able to organize a local Maidan in Khabarovsk - did you see? And as soon as he solved his problems, everything calmed down. By the way, do you still remember who they defended there?

              Can you imagine what will happen if all the oligarchs rebel against the country?

              Putin quietly, consistently, through global politics, is nationalizing the elite, forcing them to work for the country's interests.
              1. Svarog
                Svarog 6 November 2020 14: 34 New
                +4
                Quote: Boris55
                Putin quietly, consistently, through global politics, is nationalizing the elite, forcing them to work for the country's interests.

                Boris, tell us about the results of this work or keep it quiet? So it seems to me, judging by the results of Putin's rule, that it is not he who is doing something, but they are being given it ..
            2. Varyag71
              Varyag71 6 November 2020 11: 34 New
              +4
              Well, his god named the same people with low social responsibility.
    5. The comment was deleted.
  2. Svarog
    Svarog 6 November 2020 10: 08 New
    10
    After all, there was, it turns out, a time when everything was quite simple - I gained a lot of experience, received, accordingly, a pension significantly more than others. Now times, as you know, are different

    Yes, the times of lawlessness are now .. lies and meanness
    And it only seems that 15 years is not so much. But what does this mean for those who worked all the 90s either in the gray, or, for example, shuttle, without official registration, at least according to the work book, or earned a living in such offices, which today you will not find a trace?

    In general, everything has been clear with pensions for a long time .. An ordinary person who has been plowing all his life is unlikely to live .. And it will be received mainly by drones who sit in the State Duma and in various government agencies .. In other words, those who have the opportunity of a quality life will survive , access to medicine, to quality food .. The rest are consumables.
    1. Esoteric
      Esoteric 6 November 2020 17: 15 New
      0
      About medicine to the point. For a long time, I have not gone to doctors or pharmacies. Nothing.
  3. prior
    prior 6 November 2020 10: 14 New
    10
    And so the calculation of the pension was a secret behind seven seals.
    And after the author's article I got completely confused.
    But the feeling that I was cheated when calculating my pension only strengthened.
    1. Aag
      Aag 6 November 2020 18: 09 New
      +1
      Quote: prior
      And so the calculation of the pension was a secret behind seven seals.
      And after the author's article I got completely confused.
      But the feeling that I was cheated when calculating my pension only strengthened.

      Similar sensations ... And they not only cheated, they continue to do it. In a particularly perverted form. Let's just say, at first they just cheated quietly "in the course of the game", then they began to change the rules of the "game", now they just kick to the side: "Give money .I really need it!".
      And for those who are next in line (not yet a pensioner): "Who is this? Pshel!"
  4. Gardamir
    Gardamir 6 November 2020 10: 14 New
    +8
    By the way, yes. This question interests me. I didn't work in the 90s. That is, he was a shuttleman, and he was glad of a gray salary, and the offices no longer exist. When the Kremlin wants to raise its importance, it talks about the dashing 90s. But count your pension right where you worked. Then I survived and lived. And now?..
    1. ximkim
      ximkim 6 November 2020 10: 21 New
      +1
      And now?

      Bye! (joke). I think that soon there will be statements - they say, there is no money to pay pensions. And there is where to take an example ...
      "The lack of funds in the budget will force the Ukrainian authorities to stop paying pensions to the population," said Independent Prime Minister Denis Shmygal. According to him, a demographic catastrophe will lead to the fact that in the near future one working Ukrainian will support two pensioners. increase taxes, but companies are against it. We will not be able to pay pensions in 15 years. This is simple arithmetic, "the head of government stressed and advised the population to take care of their future and start saving money for old age now.
      https://rg.ru/2020/10/04/ukraincy-ostanutsia-bez-pensij-cherez-15-let.html
  5. sergo1914
    sergo1914 6 November 2020 10: 32 New
    +2
    As for the 90s and "shuttle". We registered individual entrepreneurs, received TIN, paid taxes. Also passed the “buy and sell” stage. But, excuse me, the state functioned at the very least. "Black" rent in Moscow quickly disappeared. Dryuchili for this thoroughly. So whoever wanted (and there were most of them) legalized. It is for legal payments. And bank accounts were opened, and surrendered to the tax office. Yes, with "optimization". But then, having paid everything honestly, he was left without pants.
  6. Proton
    Proton 6 November 2020 10: 48 New
    +6
    Thanks to the author for the raised topic. Apparently, it boiled a little.
    When I hear the phrases "Pension reform, military reform, etc.", I remember the words of one smart person - "Only our descendants can call this reform. Until this happens, everything we do is nothing more than action." I still remember the military "reforms" of Pasha Mercedes.
    If specifically regarding pension actions, the state in this regard behaves like a bandit in a crimson jacket and with a rosary in its hands from the 90s. When beautiful, when not very, but still deceives.
    The level of trust in the state will not increase from such actions, that's for sure.
  7. Artashes
    Artashes 6 November 2020 10: 53 New
    +1
    ARKHIGLUPO "analyze" the pension and, in general, the financial policy of the authorities: everything is obvious FROM DURING. Pensioners, if they have significant ruble savings, it is better to buy dollars or, better, euros with Brit. pounds. Some people do that ...
  8. fif21
    fif21 6 November 2020 10: 57 New
    +2
    The people on the site are mostly servicemen. Could you, Tatiana, write an article about the possibility of receiving a second civil pension. There, too, a lot of interesting and unexpected things have come from the pension reform. hi
    1. Aag
      Aag 6 November 2020 18: 37 New
      0
      Quote: fif21
      The people on the site are mostly servicemen. Could you, Tatiana, write an article about the possibility of receiving a second civil pension. There, too, a lot of interesting and unexpected things have come from the pension reform. hi

      Can we deal with the first, military, pensions first?
      It is somehow not very convenient in front of civilians, they were generally "driven under the bench" ... But, since the site "VO", it would also not hurt to figure out how much it was underpaid to pensioners of the Moscow region due to the fact that they were indexed less often promises, and for a smaller amount. Strongly depends on the period of dismissal. As an example, I have already cited a situation when the senior pr-k with minimum seniority receives a pension 1,5 times higher than the captain (by the way, his father) with 1,5 times more seniority, or a major with the same seniority. The time of dismissal is different (99, 18) Apparently, simply because the old people were completely written off?
      1. fif21
        fif21 6 November 2020 18: 58 New
        -1
        Quote: AAG
        As an example, I have already cited a situation when a senior pr-k with a minimum length of service receives a pension 1,5 times higher than a captain (by the way, his father) with 1,5 times more seniority, or a major with the same length of service. (99, 18) Apparently, simply because the old people were completely written off?

        I went to the military at 07 and now it is 20, I would go out with a higher pension - I agree! The pension is not indexed as much as it should be, and a reduction coefficient was applied. But I worked for another 13 years, and what are my prospects from the FIU? That's what it is about. hi
  9. Was mammoth
    Was mammoth 6 November 2020 11: 10 New
    +3
    The pension reform (s) has led to the creation of a system of benefits for "individual citizens", where the very principle of pensions and their understandable charges has been blurred. But, so far, these are only "flowers". Berries will be with a complete rejection of the state's social guarantees.
    They are not stopped even by their own constitution.
  10. Alex66
    Alex66 6 November 2020 11: 19 New
    0
    If someone signed the papers in the Pension Fund would be responsible financially, for mistakes, then there would be no mistakes. And if there is an intention to save the pension fund (on bonuses), then they will save.
  11. Varyag71
    Varyag71 6 November 2020 11: 36 New
    +2
    But there are those who support the pension reform. Even here these comrades are.
    1. sergo1914
      sergo1914 6 November 2020 12: 33 New
      +3
      Quote: Varyag71
      But there are those who support the pension reform. Even here these comrades are.


      Come on. Really? What kind of elves are they? The only initiative of Putin against which turned out to be 100% of the country's population. I don’t know people who supported IT.
      1. Varyag71
        Varyag71 6 November 2020 13: 00 New
        0
        There is, unfortunately. and 100% definitely cannot be against it.
      2. BAI
        BAI 6 November 2020 13: 11 New
        -3
        I have supported. Personally, I need to work up to 65 to solve all my questions. And if earlier up to 65 is at the discretion of the authorities, now it is obligatory. Although for me - if done wisely, it was necessary to give a choice of how many to work.
        1. fif21
          fif21 6 November 2020 16: 03 New
          0
          Quote: BAI
          I have supported. Personally, I need to work until 65

          And if the medicine hooks or the enterprise is liquidated, or if you don't hand over labor protection or injury (God forbid), then how? There are 100 legal ways to get rid of you. hi
          1. bk316
            bk316 6 November 2020 17: 17 New
            +2
            or injury

            injury is not at all in the topic of experience, but if it goes ...
            Nobody is immune from disability, which means what? You must have life insurance. And medical treatment.
        2. Aag
          Aag 6 November 2020 19: 05 New
          +1
          Quote: BAI
          I have supported. Personally, I need to work up to 65 to solve all my questions. And if earlier up to 65 is at the discretion of the authorities, now it is obligatory. Although for me - if done wisely, it was necessary to give a choice of how many to work.

          You really puzzled me ...
          Well ..., for sincerity, - "+" ...
          I think many people work here, of those who can work, I know those who are older ...
          But to support (?!) ... in fact, the robbery of their fellow citizens, acquaintances, friends, relatives (?!) ... Not if I saw that the Motherland was in danger, and everyone (EVERYONE!) Tensed, - no question! .. And so ... sorry, first temper your appetites.
          In connection with the above, I can assume that you are working in the State Duma, the Federation Council, the Pension Fund - that is, if you do not support it, "you will not solve your problems."
          Well, develop my concerns already!)))
      3. bk316
        bk316 6 November 2020 17: 10 New
        -1
        which turned out to be 100%

        I do not know people who supported IT.


        Is it hard with arithmetic?
        If no one supported it, it does NOT mean that everyone is against.

        For example, I did not support, but I do not mind - I am deeply indifferent.
        I here many years ago wrote to the state in terms of pensions I will not hope and do not advise anyone. And I was right.
        1. Svarog
          Svarog 6 November 2020 18: 07 New
          0
          Quote: bk316
          I here many years ago wrote to the state in terms of pensions I will not hope and do not advise anyone. And I was right.

          Masterpiece .. You seem to consider yourself a genius .. Observing your comments, I see that your self-esteem is clearly overestimated .. In a capitalist society it cannot be otherwise .. And what's good about that? Why do you need such a state .. no, I would understand if we did not pay taxes at all .. In this case, everything is more or less clear .. But when you deduct 13% all your life and pay a lot of other taxes to the state, you have the right to demand something in return .. But in return you get an increase in the retirement age, paid medicine, and so on .. in general, we pay taxes so that thieves can arrange a luxurious life and security for themselves ..
          1. Lexus
            Lexus 6 November 2020 22: 32 New
            +2
            It is the director of the "hvirma". Until he lives in poverty, obmukhryhivaya his "wards". Absolutely until they come for "dividends" and add holes in the "dome".
            1. Nikza
              Nikza 7 November 2020 00: 17 New
              0
              Yeah, you also got it, that the people are getting bitter? Any husk already raises its tail :-)) They are afraid of fun. For half a year already 2 times the shalupon has run over me, just like that, not damn it. While still under the cameras, and therefore just shouted and that's it. But soon the poverty of these jackals will push to correct the "social injustice" :-)) Then these freaks and stalker face to face with reality.
          2. bk316
            bk316 9 November 2020 12: 47 New
            0
            But when all your life you deduct 13% and pay a lot of other taxes to the state, you have the right to demand something in return ..

            I answered many times., In my opinion a couple of times and to you.
            I need
            1. That there would be no revolution and war. In other words, what would be a peaceful time.
            2. That the existing infrastructure would work (payments went, there was electricity, the sewage system worked)
            THIS IS CATEGORALLY.

            3. So that the infrastructure would develop somehow (roads were built, mobile communications were developed, so that money would be invested somewhere)
            4. That there would be order on the streets (in the sense that it would not be necessary to carry a firearm with you)
            IT'S DESIRABLE

            Everything else is optional, the state will do it - well, I won't do it. But everyone who promises anything INSTEAD OF 1 and 2 I will press.

            About 13% this is not just a little it is catastrophically small in comparison with others.

            Masterpiece ..

            No, obviously. For example, it was obvious 20 years ago that many professions are dying, while others do not require so many people. But after all, none of the whiners scratched their heads to change their profession to the one that would be in demand.
  12. BAI
    BAI 6 November 2020 13: 07 New
    +1
    to get the right to retire early, men can (or rather need to) accumulate 42 years of experience

    This means - at 60 years old (18 + 42 = 60). But if we take into account that the institute is not included in the length of service, then everyone with higher education automatically works up to 65. And it is not a fact that by 65 they will gain 42 years of experience. This proposal cannot be called otherwise, as an outright mockery.
    Even the famous expression:
    How to make a person well?
    First, do it badly, and then return it as it was.

    officials are implemented through za.dn.itsu.
  13. seacap
    seacap 6 November 2020 15: 36 New
    +2
    The state was created on the basis of betrayal and treason, by corrupt, cynical people with low moral principles, absolutely all spheres of activity of which are saturated with cynicism, lies and criminality has no purpose and opportunity, prospects for development and prosperity. , with the help of external management tools of the Central Bank and the Higher School of Economics, various NGOs and funds, is intended exclusively for plundering this territory and cleaning it from the indigenous population by destroying science and education, culture, moronization, substitution of traditional values ​​and the destruction of social society, creating an inherited estate, divided different interests, upbringing and standard of living and living in the same territory, but according to different laws, including the pension, social system.
  14. Aag
    Aag 6 November 2020 17: 49 New
    -1
    Quote: Insurgent
    Quote: Hagen
    Those. Did some official manage to put her unreceived share into his personal pocket? It's tricky .. Or else ...

    Without further ado, I will describe the process - aunt eNnoe the number of years of experience "presented" to the state, thus saving the state budget and the FIU ENNU the amount of money.
    Further - a "wise" and not clean on hand the official, will figure out what to do ...

    Will be nominated for a state award for fundraising (will receive the label "OWN") ...
  15. The comment was deleted.
  16. Comrade Kim
    Comrade Kim 7 November 2020 01: 22 New
    -2
    Quote: BAI
    Personally, I need to work until 65,


    And if the "party" says work until 70?
    God grant you not to "grunt" before the onset of a new penny. age.
    The population is shrinking at all, and they have raised the exit age. Apparently things are really bad. So the leader scolded the governor for the extinction of the Tula region faster than planned:
    "Putin criticized the head of the Tula region for the problem with the demographic situation in the region"

    "https://octagon.media/novosti/putin_raskritikoval_glavu_tulskoj_oblasti_za_problemu_s_demograficheskoj_situaciej_v_regione.html
  17. Lexus
    Lexus 7 November 2020 02: 10 New
    +3
    With the Great October Socialist Revolution, brothers! Hurray, comrades! soldier drinks
  18. Armen Sologyan
    Armen Sologyan 10 November 2020 17: 08 New
    0
    The company where he worked recently, since 1993, they have tried more than once to carry out a raider seizure, and in 2019 they succeeded, they appointed a bankruptcy administrator. Since February 2019, I have not received a salary, but this is a different story. Putin ordered not to reduce the pre-retirement age, but the company was forced to write a statement of its own free will. Before that, while the Director of the enterprise was alive, he protected his employees. Before the pandemic, the Director died, affected by litigation since 1993. I came to the MFC and found out that if they were reduced, then it would be possible to issue a pension early. Thank God for my life I have always worked at state-owned enterprises and have not shied away from work. I thought I deserved it, I have a labor veteran. But the way he submitted an application of his own free will, then it is necessary to get a job at the labor exchange. I came there with all the documents, and I "need to arrange everything on the Internet," including sending a color copy of my passport and work book, the first and last page. Of course, I was afraid to send a color copy of my passport via the Internet, what if someone would use it and take a microloan and prove after that that he was not a donkey! I don’t want to take any allowances and subsidies, I don’t like easy money. For me, money has a price if it is honestly earned. So I'm so naive. I will wait for the retirement age, and then I will take as much as they give. I don't need someone else!