Military Review

"Su-30 ceded superiority to Gripen E": US press on the appearance of new fighters in South America

88

On October 23 in Brazil, during the Air Force Day parade, the first newest fighter, the Gripen E, from a batch of 36 aircraft purchased from Sweden, was officially presented. The appearance of this machine in South America can seriously change the combat deployment in the skies of the continent.


This opinion is expressed by the Military Watch USA (USA):

The delivery of the first Gripen E fighters to the Brazilian Air Force marks the beginning of a major shift in the balance of air power in South America.

The new machine is intended to replace the F-5E Tiger II - the only combat aircraft of the Brazilian Air Force before, which was "virtually useless against modern opponents in aerial combat." If we take into account Brazil's lack of ground-based air defense systems, then its former defenselessness against air threats becomes clear. Neighboring Venezuela was clearly in the lead in this regard.

Venezuelan Su-30MK2 heavyweight fighter jets were considered the most combat-ready combat aircraft in the Americas outside the United States.
- notes the publication, pointing out that the supply of "Gripen" "will seriously upset the advantage of Venezuela."

Unlike the F-5 fighter, which fought back in Vietnam, the Gripen E is equipped with the latest systems: Meteor air-to-air missiles, powerful AFAR radar and effective electronic warfare systems. Military Watch believes that all this equipment is 20 years ahead of the systems equipped with the Su-30MK2.

As indicated, the Gripen E loses to the Su-30 in flight characteristics, but in all other respects it is clearly at its best. For example, the Su-30 is equipped with a radar that is twice as large as that installed on the Gripen. However, the quality of the radar on the Swedish aircraft allows it to fight out of sight of a Russian fighter jet.

As a result, according to Military Watch, the Su-30 lost its superiority to the Gripen E, a new force dominating the South American sky.

88 comments
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  1. ltc35
    ltc35 5 November 2020 10: 22
    0
    Brazilian observers are clearly excited. Even with new avionics, their Gripenes will not be able to totally dominate the air in South America. It's more like 1: 1.
    1. antivirus
      antivirus 5 November 2020 12: 07
      -21 qualifying.
      no one needs oil in Venezuela. and Amr people with Brazilians.
      disarmament is the traditional way of civilization ... and in South America.
    2. poquello
      poquello 5 November 2020 19: 44
      -2
      Quote: ltc35
      Brazilian observers are clearly excited. Even with new avionics, their Gripenes will not be able to totally dominate the air in South America. It's more like 1: 1.

      here it is more likely to neigh, you need to hang something on the yaks and position it as a threat to griens
    3. NEXUS
      NEXUS 5 November 2020 23: 20
      +3
      Quote: ltc35
      Brazilian observers are clearly excited. Even with new avionics, their Gripenes will not be able to totally dominate the air in South America. It's more like 1: 1.

      Compare single-engine Grippen with twin-engine heavy fighter-bomber ... the height of professionalism!
      1. ltc35
        ltc35 6 November 2020 21: 34
        +1
        When the air defense knocks out, in the event of a conflict, all the expensive aviation, then the Tucano will even look quite professional.
        1. poquello
          poquello 7 November 2020 17: 45
          +1
          Quote: ltc35
          When the air defense knocks out, in the event of a conflict, all the expensive aviation, then the Tucano will even look quite professional.

          and when they are knocked out, plywood will be needed, a lot of plywood)))))))))))))))))))))))
    4. SAG
      SAG 7 November 2020 10: 22
      0
      Oooh well, it means that our probable "partners" have an amazing chance to humiliate us. A light fighter of the 3rd echelon manufacturer will destroy one of our most advanced air superiority fighters (I know that MFI, but a direct descendant of the Su-27)
      Only problemma for them that this is just chatter and show-off. They themselves know about it. negative
  2. Petro_tut
    Petro_tut 5 November 2020 10: 27
    +1
    Until Russia pulls up the element base to the European level, it will not achieve an advantage in the air. When will this happen?
    1. aleksejkabanets
      aleksejkabanets 5 November 2020 11: 29
      +1
      Quote: Petro_tut
      When will this happen?

      The question is rhetorical.
    2. mintai_kot
      mintai_kot 5 November 2020 17: 31
      +8
      How can you compare these two aircraft ?! drying is a two-keel, twin-engine aircraft and therefore the thrust-to-weight ratio is much higher with all that it implies plus a variable thrust vector. Aircraft were created to perform different tasks
      1. Ingenegr
        Ingenegr 5 November 2020 23: 46
        +3
        Both aircraft are designed primarily for air combat. The priority targets for both "Drying" and "Grippen" are enemy aircraft. Therefore, the tasks of these aircraft are, plus or minus, the same. Thrust-to-weight ratio, i.e. the ratio of engine thrust to aircraft weight, for the Su-30 in afterburner mode at normal takeoff weight is 1.0, at maximum takeoff weight - 0.72. The corresponding values ​​for "Grippen" are 0.96 and 0.58. With the maximum non-afterburner mode and normal takeoff weight, the thrust-to-weight ratio will be 0.62 and 0.6 for the Su and Grippen, respectively. Where is the significant superiority of the 30th here?
        And what does the thrust-to-weight ratio have to do with success or failure in DVB?
    3. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 5 November 2020 19: 48
      +3
      Quote: Petro_tut
      Until Russia brings up the element base to the European level

      Let me disagree with you. The advantage in the air is determined not by the presence of a particular aircraft model, but by the quality of the pilot's training (the number of flight hours).
      What you have correctly noticed is the apparent lag in the element base of the electronics. But that's not all. In addition to avionics, there are mechanics, and the same tires on the chassis ...
      As for the preferences of Brazil, Russia, apart from the organization (BRICS) on the South American continent, cannot oppose anything. Our own production facilities cannot cope with the modernization and production of new aircraft. Where will someone be there to serve overseas partners?
      And customers need guarantees and strong arguments in the superiority of the product.
      So, most likely Russia has lost its superiority in marketing.
  3. rocket757
    rocket757 5 November 2020 10: 30
    11
    And who and when dared to check?
    Those, everyone, "killers of Sushki" have already been advertised so much ... I can't remember all of them.
    As always, we return to the determining factor ... including the fact that the point is not entirely in the bobbin, there is also a gasket, between the steering wheel and the parachute!
    In general, from loud journalistic screams, to reality, how far and long ... and probably never.
    1. passerby
      passerby 5 November 2020 11: 09
      -1
      Quote: rocket757
      And who and when dared to check?
      Those, everyone, "killers of Sushki" have already been advertised so much ... I can't remember all of them.

      Well, given the inconclusive results of the confrontation between the Indian Su-30s and the rather old Pakistani F-16s, doubts about the superiority of the Su-30 over the Gripen E with the Meteor missile are more than justified.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 5 November 2020 11: 29
        +1
        If you remember the past, the P-39 did not play with the Yankees and the Airacobra, but our pilots taught her to fly and fight as it should!
        I do not state anything for sure, because there is much that is not clear and anything can play or not play! From "gasket" at the helm, to a specific modification, type of weapons, training and quality maintenance.
        I'm for the fact that you shouldn't say GOP until ...
        1. AlexeyEg
          AlexeyEg 5 November 2020 15: 17
          0
          You probably boom that now, there will be Russians on the Su-30
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 5 November 2020 18: 40
            +2
            These are your fantasies, those who have been trained fly there.
      2. basmach
        basmach 5 November 2020 11: 35
        12
        And when did they oppose? Or the Pakistanis on the F-16 knocked down the drying. Remind.
        1. the Saint
          the Saint 5 November 2020 13: 43
          -12 qualifying.
          Quote: basmach
          And when did they oppose? Or the Pakistanis on the F-16 knocked down the drying. Remind.

          In India, stated that Su-30MKI actually retreated in a battle over Kashmir
          https://topwar.ru/158476-v-indii-zajavleno-chto-su-30mki-fakticheski-otstupili-v-boju-nad-kashmirom.html
          1. d4rkmesa
            d4rkmesa 5 November 2020 17: 17
            0
            Well, the Indians then scribbled - the raid was then massive and the forces were unequal - not in favor of the descendants of the brahmanas and kshatriyas.
            1. the Saint
              the Saint 6 November 2020 13: 20
              +1
              Yes, the forces were unequal. 8 F-16 versus 12.
              According to the Indian command, a dozen fighters flew to intercept - two MiG-21, six Mirage 2000 and four Su-30MKI.
              From the Indian point of view, the Pakistanis were walking in two groups. The first consisted of sixteen multipurpose JF-17s, whose task was to bombard the positions of the Indian army. The second group, manned by eight F-16s, provided cover from enemy fighters.
              The enemy air group barely managed to cross the border when the Pakistanis realized they had been spotted. JF-17s urgently dropped their bomb load and began to go under the protection of the F-16. They fired air-to-air missiles towards the approaching Indian Air Force.
              One of the missiles fired shot down an Indian MiG-21.
          2. basmach
            basmach 6 November 2020 11: 16
            0
            Retreating does not mean that there was a battle and he was defeated or shot down. Don't wishful thinking.
      3. mihail_mihail0620
        mihail_mihail0620 5 November 2020 11: 40
        -3
        What are the flimsy confrontations?
      4. Misha_an26
        Misha_an26 6 November 2020 11: 02
        0
        Technique in the hands of a fool is a piece of iron. Not by me said. And there are a lot of examples. Russian air defense in the hands of the Syrians is one of them.
  4. Vitaminchik05
    Vitaminchik05 5 November 2020 10: 31
    +5
    In addition to the equipment itself, the "straight-handedness" of the pilots and the appropriate training of both crews and service personnel play a very important role. As the experience of the Middle East shows, if an incompetent / unprepared crew manages a complex technique, this is just a target / piece of meat for the enemy. And the initial steepness of the technique does not play a special role.
    1. cmax
      cmax 5 November 2020 19: 57
      +3
      Quote: Vitaminchik05
      In addition to the equipment itself, the "straight-handedness" of the pilots and the appropriate training of both crews and service personnel play a very important role. As the experience of the Middle East shows, if an incompetent / unprepared crew manages a complex technique, this is just a target / piece of meat for the enemy. And the initial steepness of the technique does not play a special role.

      And if the radar sees at a distance 2 times further, is this normal? You have not yet seen the enemy, but a rocket has already been fired at you. And the crew, even the most experienced, will not help.
      1. Mityasha
        Mityasha 6 November 2020 08: 00
        -1
        Any combat system is a complex, including the one who controls it. Well, you compared 2 AFAR-Luchshe.nu long-range missiles. Conclusion that the plane is better? I disagree. There are defense systems, a rab. Pilot training level and experience. There are other factors as well. You can argue endlessly, but conclude that it is better only in one parameter - this is amateurism!
  5. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 5 November 2020 10: 34
    10
    Military Watch USA
    Gripen E loses to the Su-30 in flight characteristics, but in all other respects it is clearly at its best
    The characteristic "is on top" can be understood as not inferior to a Russian-made aircraft.
    The Su-30 ceded its superiority to the Gripen E, the new force dominating the South American skies.
    Is this already proven by air battles (at least training ones) or is it enough that the American media decided so?
  6. akarfoxhound
    akarfoxhound 5 November 2020 10: 34
    +9
    Directly unpredictable analysts:
    all that is Russian is to kiss, all that is western is to kiss. Very unexpected, very ... winked

    What is there to discuss then? wink
    1. cmax
      cmax 5 November 2020 20: 02
      -1
      Quote: akarfoxhound
      Directly unpredictable analysts:
      all that is Russian is to kiss, all that is western is to kiss. Very unexpected, very ... winked

      What is there to discuss then? wink

      In vain you, analytics are one of the best sides of the United States. Do you think in vain dozens of scouts fly around Kaliningrad and Crimea every day. On day X all this will affect. At 41, the Germans also flew, they thought, let them fly. Winter won't help now.
      1. akarfoxhound
        akarfoxhound 6 November 2020 13: 18
        0
        The Germans had intelligence that worked for the Wehrmacht, the mattresses have modern "analytics", the above is a typographic journalistic publication, this is an advertising office working for business. And what they write about the work of their own P-8 off the coast of Russia is the same empty-headed crap, as well as from our "analyst" journalists, who have nothing to do with intelligence or the army in general (with distinction, overseas their colleagues earn good money from advertising, ours for a modest editorial fee) Many in it, in the army, were not even half a Monday, but they believe that after reading the same journalism with "figures" from the same colleagues in the "club", like something then they understand. An example is the same local "analyst" Damantsev, divorced from the realities of battle, where is a miracle!
  7. d4rkmesa
    d4rkmesa 5 November 2020 10: 37
    -19 qualifying.
    Venezuelan Su-30mk2s were outdated even then, 10-15 years ago, so there is no secret here. AFAR still decides in this case.
    1. K-36
      K-36 5 November 2020 12: 08
      10
      Su-30mk2 even then, 10-15 years ago, were morally obsolete, so there is no secret. AFAR still decides in this case.
      I will frankly note that you are in captivity of your own illusions. From your commentary it is quite clear to me that you are in no way on the flight side (ie, just a couch "expert"). To clarify your misconceptions, watch this video
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ePwd2B331U&feature=emb_logo
      Before flying to America, Kharchevsky and his colleagues shoveled all the secret literature on the F-15, and it turned out that the Su-27 had no chance in the entire range of altitudes and speeds. But an order is an order, they flew to the amers. Arrived, looked ... and beat amers in all battles! lol
      Correctly here you (and you like you) here in plain text write that the superiority of technology does not guarantee victory. It all depends on the training of the pilot. And this is not a myth. Something like this.
      hi
      1. d4rkmesa
        d4rkmesa 5 November 2020 16: 38
        -1
        Hehe, I am basically "sofa", but I would have been involved in the flight - I would not shine, and would not measure and share with some local meager pseudo-patriots info, which I have. It is pleasant to be in illusions, up to a certain point, here recently the Armenians discovered a lot of new things. Yes, yes, it all depends on the training of the pilot, but where can you get a lot of them, for $ 10 million apiece? How many of these will be typed in all videoconferencing, 2-3 hundreds? I doubt it. Note, you have written a lot of text, but nothing in essence, apparently you do not want to explain anything to the "sofa". They gave an example of 30 years ago. But where does Gripen and the Venezuelan Su-30mk2 have to do with it? The Venezuelan Su-30s were already worse then, 14 years ago, than the Indian ones with the Bars. It makes no sense to even compare with the Swedish AFAR in 2020. The swallow was already this year: the Chinese, as you know, trained with the Thais on the Gripen, there is infa on the network, believe it or not - your right.
      2. Nasdaq
        Nasdaq 5 November 2020 18: 13
        +1
        Before flying to America, Kharchevsky and his colleagues shoveled all the secret literature on the F-15, and it turned out that the Su-27 had no chance in the entire range of altitudes and speeds. But an order is an order, they flew to the amers. They flew in, looked ... And they beat amers in all battles! lol

        Americans always lose to everyone in training battles. We lost to Indian dryers and European typhoons. And always with a crushing score. Here we can draw 2 conclusions: either "everything is bad", or "there are no real opportunities."
        1. K-36
          K-36 5 November 2020 22: 29
          +5
          Nasdaq Americans always lose to everyone in training battles ... either "everything is bad" or "they do not shine with real opportunities."
          Roman, if you watched the video I posted, You should have heard from the words of Kharchevsky that amers have a "long arm" in priority, and close air combat is on the sidelines. That the Americans did not want to succumb, so Kharchevsky specifically highlighted this. However, the video for me is nothing more than a small sketch for a big picture. For even before the appearance of all these video interviews, I was present in a large conference room, where Kharchevsky reported in detail on all the details of this trip (from preparation to landing at his home airfield). I will share some memories. 1. Mysteries of geography. The numerical value of the meridian (in our hemisphere) is growing ( yes ) from zero degrees at Greenwich to 180 degrees in Chukotka. In Anadyr - an extreme landing (almost 180 deg. Longitude) before flying to America. But after the one hundred and eightieth degree, it is by no means 181, but again the 179th. Oh how lol And the jammed navigation program thinks that if the longitude value increases, then you are flying east (and vice versa). The program does not know if the plane is over Khabarovsk at 135 degrees or is already flying up to San Francisco? There was a stir for all the Air Force what It lasted about five days (according to my memories IMHO). But we solved all this problem.
          2. Why did the engines of our Su-27UB stand up? Because the F-15 has only 4 kerosene injectors, while ours have either 12 or 16. Plus, the Americans have filled in "lightweight" kerosene. when our team decided to jump over the thunderclouds, climbing 14 km, then there was not enough air to enrich the mixture. The engines stopped.
          3, Why didn't ours bail out with failed engines? Actually, the decision to bailout was made, but only as an extreme of the measures taken, and only on "command" (Kharchevsky, of course). But this "command" did not follow. It was for this situation that I at that time deduced for myself definition of what a "cool pilot" is... Firstly, it is the School (with its rich experience, traditions and mentality). Secondly, it is physical endurance (healthy eating, healthy lifestyle and regular exercise). Thirdly, it is dedication, the ability at the right time to bring together knowledge and will, Well, and "the cherry on the cake" - the Russian character (sometimes it is equated with Russian ingenuity).
          4. At what altitude did our aircraft come out of the dive? I know from the words of Kharchevsky. But in his video interviews, he did not dwell on this, therefore, I should not.
          But he saw fit to voice his sincere opinion about the Americans: they will never be brothers to us... They have a different mentality ...
          And finally. Watch this video (you can from the 15th minute).
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IPANWY7Atg
          In it, he tells how the French tried to "shoe" him, thereby dispelling his glory as an unsurpassed air fighter. Prepared a special capkan (counting on ...). Only their Kharchevsky "made"! lol
          Here I take my leave hi
          1. d4rkmesa
            d4rkmesa 6 November 2020 13: 35
            -1
            Your example only confirms the rule, there are almost no special people anywhere. Once upon a time doctors were called "doctors", but now there are almost no doctors (there are up to 100 thousand people in cities). Take a look around. Only acceptance of reality and technocratization can somehow save the situation. But who wants to accept unpleasant things? Stop praying for an outdated flanker with outdated radar.
    2. tomket
      tomket 5 November 2020 12: 08
      +2
      Quote: d4rkmesa
      AFAR still decides in this case.

      And what does he decide?
      1. cmax
        cmax 5 November 2020 20: 47
        -1
        Quote: tomket
        Quote: d4rkmesa
        AFAR still decides in this case.

        And what does he decide?

        What does the Porsche and Lada Priora race decide? And here and there a car, but different. You are in which.
  8. Andylw
    Andylw 5 November 2020 10: 48
    -35 qualifying.
    How long can you use this Soviet rubbish?
    He only needs the sanctioned bantustans.
    Gripen with afar on the head is steeper than su30, it was not for nothing that the Brazilians bought them, not su35
    1. Petio
      Petio 5 November 2020 14: 58
      +4
      Between the radar N001VP, which stands on the Venezuelan Su-30 microvolts and the N035 Irbis, which on the Su-35s is a big difference - about 2 times in target detection and more in noise immunity
      1. Andylw
        Andylw 5 November 2020 15: 02
        -7
        Well, the Brazilians are not fools - they took it all into account!
        moreover, we suggested that they also transfer technologies, organize assembly in brazil.
        They chose Gripen anyway.
        In terms of avionics, the Su-35 loses to all western modern modifications of fighters 4+
      2. d4rkmesa
        d4rkmesa 5 November 2020 16: 41
        -1
        That's right, even Bars is better, but for some reason pseudo-patriots are bombing from the fact that the radar 30 years old (well, ok - 15 years old, by the date of production) is inferior to the Swedish radar with AFAR, released in 2020.
  9. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 5 November 2020 11: 09
    +5
    Su30, and Su35 already need to be modernized ..... Avionics and AFAR for Su57 appear. It is necessary to produce it in large quantities (not 76 pieces only for the Su57) ..... The Americans have already mastered this path with the F16 viper and the F15EX are examples of this.
    1. Tiksi-3
      Tiksi-3 5 November 2020 11: 20
      +6
      Quote: Zaurbek
      Su30, and Su35 already need to be modernized ..... Avionics and AFAR for Su57 appear. It is necessary to produce it in large quantities (not 76 pieces only for Su57)

      I agree to all 100% hi drinks
    2. tomket
      tomket 5 November 2020 12: 12
      +2
      Quote: Zaurbek
      Su30, and Su35 already need to be modernized ...

      So the Su-30 is being modernized. The flight of the Su-30SM2 has already been planned. In general, we need to increase the range of missiles, in my opinion this is now the main Achilles heel of our aircraft.
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 5 November 2020 13: 50
        +2
        It will be brought to the level of Su35S and this is great ... but competitors have started to install AFAR ... and customers want Afar
    3. Runoway
      Runoway 5 November 2020 12: 26
      +1
      Yes, there, frankly, and in the Su-57 in avionics it is sad, it is only in the "advertising" of our military-industrial complex he is superior in everything. And it is so sad that, as the engineers say, "if the hard workers were paid more, then many of the nodes would have served longer"
      You can minus denying the truth as much as you like, but in fact what is Venezuela? , what stood on the Sushki and MiGs driven on the Kuz to the shores of Syria is generally a shame
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 5 November 2020 13: 47
        +3
        Managers make good money ... and even engineers and technologists are paid less
      2. The comment was deleted.
  10. APASUS
    APASUS 5 November 2020 11: 24
    +5
    What kind of nonsense have I read?
    Military Watch believes that all this equipment is 20 years ahead of the systems equipped with the Su-30MK2.

    Again they compare soft with round, and even in such a pretentious manner. Brazil, in principle, was not in our circle of buyers, and given that the history of purchasing Gripen goes back to 2001, with scandals and revelations. Let them just be glad that the story is over.
    1. Andylw
      Andylw 5 November 2020 11: 35
      -13 qualifying.
      Brazil, in principle, was not in our circle of buyers

      Yes of course. There was a tender in Brazil and lost it!
      1. APASUS
        APASUS 5 November 2020 13: 11
        +2
        Quote: AndyLW
        Yes of course. There was a tender in Brazil and lost it!

        You don't have to be so naive, we could not get there, even if Sukhoi was an order of magnitude higher than his competitors in performance characteristics. We are not trying to use the EU's fighters, and there was no point there either.
        This is more of a publicity stunt, I had to declare myself on the continent
        1. Andylw
          Andylw 5 November 2020 13: 13
          -3
          Hahah ...
          And how did we sell the Mi-35 to the Brazilians then?
          1. APASUS
            APASUS 5 November 2020 14: 22
            +4
            Quote: AndyLW
            Hahah ...
            And how did we sell the Mi-35 to the Brazilians then?

            What did we sell there? 12 cars for $ 150 mil and you're comparing to a contract for $ 5,4 billion
            1. Andylw
              Andylw 5 November 2020 14: 39
              -9
              but what about this:
              Don't be so naive, we couldn't get there
              ??
              a normal country with transparent tenders, in which the best offer wins
              Gripen is just better than su35
              1. APASUS
                APASUS 5 November 2020 15: 54
                +5
                Quote: AndyLW
                Gripen is just better than su35

                What criteria can be used to compare two different types of cars
                By the width of the wheels, the diameter of the headlights?
                1. Andylw
                  Andylw 5 November 2020 16: 15
                  -5
                  What criteria can be used to compare two different types of cars

                  Very simple. According to the criterion of compliance with the requirements of the Brazilian Air Force.
                  1. APASUS
                    APASUS 5 November 2020 16: 52
                    +4
                    Quote: AndyLW
                    What criteria can be used to compare two different types of cars

                    Very simple. According to the criterion of compliance with the requirements of the Brazilian Air Force.

                    "Blessed are those who believe" for 20 years the tender took place, there all the plus and minus signs of the technique were counted!
        2. d4rkmesa
          d4rkmesa 5 November 2020 16: 43
          0
          They could, but the Swedes offered 150% offset. It is interesting now when they will recapture their investments.
  11. Thrifty
    Thrifty 5 November 2020 11: 28
    11
    Taking into account the pro-American course of the Brazilian authorities, the purchase of our aircraft by this country is absolutely impossible.
    1. Andylw
      Andylw 5 November 2020 11: 35
      -18 qualifying.
      Yes of course. There was a tender in Brazil and lost it!
      1. prior
        prior 5 November 2020 12: 04
        +9
        It was not the Su-35 that lost, but Brazil lost, plunged into dependence on the United States.
        1. Andylw
          Andylw 5 November 2020 12: 09
          -12 qualifying.
          what does the united states have to do with it? what is the dependence? winked
          Swedish gripenes ...
          1. prior
            prior 5 November 2020 12: 14
            +2
            Sorry, my mistake. This is all from "love" to the FSA.
  12. Jacket in stock
    Jacket in stock 5 November 2020 12: 03
    -2
    Yes, like bae, nothing new.
    The Swedes talked about their "killer dryers" long ago.
    I remember then in all our media all sorts of experts tried to tell that it was impossible, that we are still ahead of the rest of the planet. Sometimes I had to read such nonsense. That even our ancient-ancient Su27 will defeat them. Why? Because we have C400!
    But never anywhere and no one wrote about the real performance ratio.
    Maybe because the radar on Gripen is really better?
    1. poquello
      poquello 5 November 2020 20: 01
      +3
      Quote: Jacket in stock
      But never anywhere and no one wrote about the real performance ratio.
      Maybe because the radar on Gripen is really better?

      and you were forbidden to write about the real ratio of performance characteristics along the way)))))))))))))))))
  13. Bersaglieri
    Bersaglieri 5 November 2020 12: 33
    +9
    Ikzperdy compared heavy and light fighters and learned that light is cheaper :)
  14. TermNachTer
    TermNachTer 5 November 2020 13: 04
    0
    A lot of text - nothing))) when the Brazilian "gripen" knocks down the Venezuelan "drying", then we will discuss what and how. Because, again, there are only "naked" numbers - the radar is better, the rocket is better, the gasket between the steering wheel and the seat is also better?))))
    1. poquello
      poquello 5 November 2020 20: 03
      0
      Quote: TermNachTER
      that's when the Brazilian "gripen" knocks down the Venezuelan "drying", that's when we will discuss

      but once a year a stick shoots
      1. Bersaglieri
        Bersaglieri 6 November 2020 12: 23
        0
        And it may well dump. Especially considering the mess in pilot training in Venezuela.
  15. ZEMCH
    ZEMCH 5 November 2020 14: 27
    +7
    Pilots are fighting on airplanes, it all depends on their training and skills in using specific equipment. The Su-30MK2 is a heavy fighter, and the JAS 39 Gripen is light, the range of the Gripen is almost two times inferior to the Su-30. You can write anything you want, but only a real collision will show the capabilities of the aircraft
    1. Jacket in stock
      Jacket in stock 5 November 2020 16: 45
      +1
      Quote: ZEMCH
      in flight range, the Gripen is almost twice as short as the Su-30.

      So what?
      Do you think it will not fly somewhere?
      It is more important who is inferior to whom in terms of detection and aiming range.
      1. ZEMCH
        ZEMCH 5 November 2020 16: 49
        +1
        Quote: Jacket in stock
        It is more important who is inferior to whom in terms of detection and aiming range.

        Meteor and R-77 have the same range, 100 km
        1. Ingenegr
          Ingenegr 6 November 2020 00: 13
          +2
          To put it mildly, this is not the case. The base R-77 has a maximum launch range of 80 km, while the later R-77-1 has 110 km. "Meteor" flies 150 km at a noticeably higher average speed.
      2. TermNachTer
        TermNachTer 5 November 2020 22: 43
        0
        South. America is very big, Brazil is also rather big, there is where to fly. So the flight range is one of the main factors, and according to it "gripena" loses much
  16. migsu
    migsu 5 November 2020 16: 48
    +3
    It's funny to read baby talk from the sandbox!
  17. Bat039
    Bat039 5 November 2020 21: 08
    +4
    Either the F-15 of the US Air Force in joint exercises with the Indian Air Force lost to the Indians on the Su-30 with a devastating score. Grippen has its merits, such as a reverse engine and the ability to use small runways, but this lightweight fighter is not a competitor to the Su-30. Brazil's purchase of Swedish aircraft is purely a policy.
    1. Bersaglieri
      Bersaglieri 6 November 2020 12: 25
      -1
      No, it's just that the Brazilians decided to finally change the easy one for the light one (the F-5 is already "super-xacals"). Brazil has no natural enemies, except for the internal ones, in the favelas.
  18. Vsevolod136
    Vsevolod136 5 November 2020 21: 14
    0
    Quote: cmax
    Quote: tomket
    Quote: d4rkmesa
    AFAR still decides in this case.

    And what does he decide?

    What does the Porsche and Lada Priora race decide? And here and there a car, but different. You are in which.

    for those who are in the tank - the Porsche and UAZ PATRIO Tpo off-road race bully
    which one are you in? laughing
    1. TermNachTer
      TermNachTer 5 November 2020 22: 44
      -1
      Why off-road?))) Let the "porsche" drive along our roads)))
    2. cmax
      cmax 5 November 2020 23: 46
      +1
      Quote: Vsevolod136
      Quote: cmax
      Quote: tomket
      Quote: d4rkmesa
      AFAR still decides in this case.

      And what does he decide?

      What does the Porsche and Lada Priora race decide? And here and there a car, but different. You are in which.

      for those who are in the tank - the Porsche and UAZ PATRIO Tpo off-road race bully
      which one are you in? laughing

      And you would prefer to enter the fight with a pistol or a knife, if you really have to. He who is forewarned is armed. If you have been seen long ago, but you have not ...
      And the UAZ would rather break than win.
  19. certero
    certero 5 November 2020 22: 17
    0
    The time of these machines is running out. If Venezuela and Brazil go to war, drones will decide.
  20. Petr Vladimirovich
    Petr Vladimirovich 5 November 2020 22: 21
    +3
    Buy from Russia - options: color revolution, military coup, confiscation of a bank deposit, a maid in a hotel, a hurricane of cancer. This is so, offhand ...
    1. Victorio
      Victorio 5 November 2020 23: 18
      +1
      Quote: Petr Vladimirovich
      Buy from Russia - options: color revolution, military coup, confiscation of a bank deposit, a maid in a hotel, a hurricane of cancer. This is so, offhand ...

      ===
      ) now relevant - sanctions
  21. lvov_aleksey
    lvov_aleksey 6 November 2020 00: 50
    0
    admins let me put a minus for the article, I have been asking for a long time!
    trash article - if mention is made of the US Military Watch (USA)
  22. Mityasha
    Mityasha 6 November 2020 07: 43
    0
    Quote: mintai_kot
    two keel drying

    Well, a very important detail in comparing the combat capabilities of fighters laughing
  23. Scipio African
    Scipio African 6 November 2020 10: 08
    0
    Alas for them - grief analysts wishful thinking, engaging in sombrero offensive
  24. Tagan
    Tagan 8 November 2020 08: 07
    0
    Quote: passerby
    Quote: rocket757
    And who and when dared to check?
    Those, everyone, "killers of Sushki" have already been advertised so much ... I can't remember all of them.

    Well, given the inconclusive results of the confrontation between the Indian Su-30s and the rather old Pakistani F-16s, doubts about the superiority of the Su-30 over the Gripen E with the Meteor missile are more than justified.

    It is difficult to remember the convincing opposition of the Hindus. Rather, it's not about airplanes at all.